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aadil77
06-12-2010, 10:09 AM
People are probably sick of these taliban related topics, but lets not hide the truth, they are one of the only hopes for the ummah to retain some honour. They may have had certain faults and we should pray for their guidence, but no one can deny they brought about great positives in the country due to their genuine dedication to islam and the honour they had.

This is about them wiping out drugs and fighting for the honour of women

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S<Chowdhury
06-12-2010, 10:57 AM
Brother you really see the Taliban as the only hope for the Ummah.....oh jeeez i hope they aren't, by all means we should be able to defend our country in the face of foreign invasion but now your trying to make the Taliban out to be some sort of saint ? Giving rights to Women and Wiping Out the Drug Trade ? The whole operation is fuelled by Opium and Drug trafficking why would they want to wipe out there own source of income? Oh wait don't tell me its foreigners who are really behind the drug trade?
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Masuma
06-12-2010, 11:25 AM
Asalamu Alikum Wr Wb!

@ brother aadill:
Brother please no offense there, i just want to give my opinion. You seem Taliban as the only hope but I don't. Many of the people here don't!
They didn't generally adhere to Islam because if they would have, then Allah would surely have given them victory. And I'm only talking about Afghan Talibans because Pakistani Talibans are mini dajjals! And if any Muslim would support them, then they are simply supporting murderers!
Afgahni Talibans are way better than Pakistani Talibans but I still don't approve of many of their methods, and don't see them at all as the "only hope"!
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Masuma
06-12-2010, 11:30 AM
"wipping drugs out" is what I agree but I don't at all agree with this clause "their genuine dedication to islam". Do you know they even banned women going to school?! Is this what Islam says?? Is this?

Prophet's hadith is that "it is compulsory for every Muslim men and women to seek knowledge". So are they supporting and implementing this? Are they? And you know the answer!
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aadil77
06-12-2010, 11:31 AM
Originally Posted by S<Chowdhury
Brother you really see the Taliban as the only hope for the Ummah.....oh jeeez i hope they aren't, by all means we should be able to defend our country in the face of foreign invasion but now your trying to make the Taliban out to be some sort of saint ? Giving rights to Women and Wiping Out the Drug Trade ? The whole operation is fuelled by Opium and Drug trafficking why would they want to wipe out there own source of income? Oh wait don't tell me its foreigners who are really behind the drug trade?
lol do some research akhi and you'll find out who controls the drugs, I'm not saying taliban are saints but they certainly don't do drugs

'why would they want to wipe out there own source of income?' cause its haraam and they already did wipe it out, go and ask the US department of drug control

do you even know where the drugs are grown? northern regions
do you know who controls the northern regions? the northern alliance - go look it up
theres a reason why people accuse hamid karzai's brother as the biggest druglord in afghanistan

this is one of the reasons I'm posting these threads, cause even muslims hold the worst misconceptions of their brothers

read my sig
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aadil77
06-12-2010, 11:37 AM
Originally Posted by An33za
Asalamu Alikum Wr Wb!

@ brother aadill:
Brother please no offense there, i just want to give my opinion. You seem Taliban as the only hope but I don't. Many of the people here don't!
They didn't generally adhere to Islam because if they would have, then Allah would surely have given them victory. And I'm only talking about Afghan Talibans because Pakistani Talibans are mini dajjals! And if any Muslim would support them, then they are simply supporting murderers!
Afgahni Talibans are way better than Pakistani Talibans but I still don't approve of many of their methods, and don't see them at all as the "only hope"!
who is the only hope then? 'the islamic republic of pakistan'? what have they done except take orders from their kuffar american masters to kill other muslims for money

if you want to know the issue of the pak taliban watch this doc, it has your own govt officials sympathising pak taliban

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...neyman-tv.html
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aadil77
06-12-2010, 11:41 AM
Originally Posted by An33za
"wipping drugs out" is what I agree but I don't at all agree with this clause "their genuine dedication to islam". Do you know they even banned women going to school?! Is this what Islam says?? Is this?

Prophet's hadith is that "it is compulsory for every Muslim men and women to seek knowledge". So are they supporting and implementing this? Are they? And you know the answer!
no this isn't what islam says, don't you think the taliban had daughters, sisters, mothers who they would want an education for?

they said they temporarly stopped women until they could sort out the issue of freemixing - AllahuAlim, but I have faith they will sort this out next time they get in power
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Masuma
06-12-2010, 11:44 AM
Originally Posted by aadil77
who is the only hope then?
Now this is a good question! For me, the hope is ofcourse not "Pakistan's govt" but the daee's of Allah! Like dr. zakir naik, dr. israr ahmad etc! :statisfie
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Masuma
06-12-2010, 11:48 AM
Originally Posted by aadil77
if you want to know the issue of the pak taliban watch this doc, it has your own govt officials sympathising pak taliban

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...neyman-tv.html
So you want me to believe the doc? Well why should I? I've enough proofs to abhor Pakistani Talibans! I would never support them! Doc would say whatever he likes, and jsut because doc is saying something, it doesn't make it right!

And brother I don't hate Afghan Talibans. I only disprove some of their strategies but generally I support them.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-12-2010, 11:49 AM
And Indeed Allaah Knows Best!
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aadil77
06-12-2010, 11:50 AM
Originally Posted by An33za
Now this is a good question! For me, the hope is ofcourse not "Pakistan's govt" but the daee's of Allah! Like dr. zakir naik, dr. israr ahmad etc! :statisfie
even they would support the taliban LOL

they were just individuals spreading islam, they didn't have the power to run a country

maybe if more of these scholars had went to afghanistan, they could have helped the taliban with a correct understanding of islam, no but they all like to sit comfortabley in their own developed countries
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Masuma
06-12-2010, 11:51 AM
Originally Posted by aadil77
no this isn't what islam says, don't you think the taliban had daughters, sisters, mothers who they would want an education for?

they said they temporarly stopped women until they could sort out the issue of freemixing - AllahuAlim, but I have faith they will sort this out next time they get in power
I don't know brother! The media is just so biased and can't believe what it says. Still some of the things are so much proven that you got to believe them to be true! About the above statement, I don't know whether they planned to settle this issue later on or not, I only know that they banned Muslimahs from going to school!
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Masuma
06-12-2010, 11:55 AM
Originally Posted by aadil77
even they would support the taliban LOL

they were just individuals spreading islam, they didn't have the power to run a country

maybe if more of these scholars had went to afghanistan, they could have helped the taliban with a correct understanding of islam, no but they all like to sit comfortabley in their own developed countries
Be afraid of Allah brother, before talking about things of which you have no proof! I would never say anything about a person unless I have enough proof of that!

If we are judging the things here then lets see how many people converted to Islam due to Taliban? How many? Hardly a few I guess! But due to the daees of Islam, like the ones I named, millions of people get right understanding of Islam. Thousands convert to Islam and all of this is far more successful than the Talibans' strategy!
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aadil77
06-12-2010, 11:59 AM
Originally Posted by An33za
So you want me to believe the doc? Well why should I? I've enough proofs to abhor Pakistani Talibans! I would never support them! Doc would say whatever he likes, and jsut because doc is saying something, it doesn't make it right!

And brother I don't hate Afghan Talibans. I only disprove some of their strategies but generally I support them.
its a completely unbiased documentry it has the views of musharraff against taliban and the views of former head of ISI to show the reasons behind what the pak taliban do

none of them support the taliban

watch it, you will learn alot
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Masuma
06-12-2010, 11:59 AM
Originally Posted by aadil77
they were just individuals spreading islam, they didn't have the power to run a country
But with the help of Allah, they've the power to change peoples' views! And many people just don't have any idea of how hard this thing is!

Originally Posted by aadil77
maybe if more of these scholars had went to afghanistan, they could have helped the taliban with a correct understanding of islam, no but they all like to sit comfortabley in their own developed countries
And that is totally wrong to say! Daees of Islam like Dr. Zakir Naik, travel to many countries in a year to spread the message of Allah!
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aadil77
06-12-2010, 12:04 PM
Originally Posted by An33za
Be afraid of Allah brother, before talking about things of which you have no proof! I would never say anything about a person unless I have enough proof of that!

If we are judging the things here then lets see how many people converted to Islam due to Taliban? How many? Hardly a few I guess! But due to the daees of Islam, like the ones I named, millions of people get right understanding of Islam. Thousands convert to Islam and all of this is far more successful than the Talibans' strategy!
I'm certain the likes of zakir naik and dr israr ahmad supported legitamate jihad for the sake of Allah, that means they would support the the general cause of the taliban to fight for their country - just like you do

the taliban do not do dawah

but one famous person who converted to islam because of the taliban is:
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aadil77
06-12-2010, 12:07 PM
Originally Posted by An33za
But with the help of Allah, they've the power to change peoples' views! And many people just don't have any idea of how hard this thing is!



And that is totally wrong to say! Daees of Islam like Dr. Zakir Naik, travel to many countries in a year to spread the message of Allah!
they are great scholars of islam and they have done a great service to the ummah, but what I mean is people like them should help the understanding of their muslim brothers in afghanistan, so if you believe the taliban did not follow a correct interpretation of islam - maybe if big scholars advised them they would have changed too!
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Masuma
06-12-2010, 12:09 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
watch it, you will learn alot
I think you'll learn a lot from here too!

SOURCE:

TERRORIST ATTACKS IN NWFP IN 2009

• January 4: A suicide bomber was killed while two people sustained injuries near a check-post in Officers’ Colony in Bannu. The suicide bomber blew himself up in an attempt to target a check-post but could not succeed as the bomb exploded before he could reach his target.

• January 4: Ten persons, including 4 policemen, were killed and 27 others injured in two bomb blasts near the Polytechnic College in Dera Ismail Khan.

• January 17: In the first incident of its kind in Peshawar, religious scholar Pir Hafiz Rafeeullah, who was kidnapped on January 16, was reportedly slaughtered and his decapitated body was found in the Matani area of the capital on the morning of January 17.

• January 20: Four policemen and 4 civilians were injured when a police patrol van was hit by a roadside bomb on Ring Road in the Hazarkhwani area of Peshawar.

• January 23: Two SF personnel were killed in a car suicide attack near Mingora town in the Swat District of NWFP.

• January 26: At least 5 people have been killed and several wounded in a bomb blast in Dera Ismail Khan. The bomb, attached to a bicycle, went off on a busy main road.

• February 3: One man was killed and 18 others injured in a hand grenade attack on a Sunni mosque at Mohallah Joginwala in Dera Ismail Khan district.

• February 5: A suicide attacker detonated an explosive-laden car near a police station in the Mingora town of Swat District, injuring a dozen officers and destroying part of the building.

• February 9: At least 18 FC personnel were injured in amini-truck suicide attack on the Baran Pul check-post of the Frontier Reserve Police (FRP) in the jurisdiction of Bakkakhel police station in Bannu District.

• February 11: Alamzeb Khan, a Member of Provincial Assembly from the ruling Awami National Party (ANP), was killed and 7 others were injured in a remote-controlled bomb blast in Momin Town in Peshawar.

• February 17: Five people were killed and 17 injured in a car bomb blast outside the Hujra (male guest house) of the union council chief in Bazidkhel village of Peshawar.

• February 20: At least 32 persons were killed and 145 others injured when a suicide bomber exploded himself in the funeral procession of a slain employee of the Tehsil Municipal Administration near the busy Shubra Square in Dera Ismail Khan.

• February 23: A police guard was killed when he flung himself onto a suicide bomber to prevent him from entering a compound in Bannu. The attacker was trying to enter the compound, where judges and senior police officials live and work, when the guard intercepted him. Two other police guards were wounded in the attack.

• March 5: One person was killed and 19 others sustained injuries when a hand-grenade hurled by unidentified miscreants at worshippers exploded in Ameer Hamza mosque in Dera Ismail Khan.

• March 5: Suspected Taliban militants blew an ancient shrine of a 17th century Sufi poet - Rehman Baba - in the Akhund Baba graveyard of Peshawar. A letter delivered three days before the attack to the management of the mausoleum had warned against its promotion of ‘shrine culture’.

• March 7: Eight persons, including five policemen, two Frontier Corps personnel and a civilian, were killed in a remote-controlled car bombing at Mashugagr village in Peshawar. Some villagers also sustained minor injuries.

• March 11: The NWFP Senior Minister and Awami National Party leader Bashir Ahmad Bilour survived an assassination attempt that left six persons, including two suspected suicide attackers, dead in Namak Mandi in Peshawar. Four persons, including a young girl, were wounded in the firing, grenade attack and suicide blast.

• March 18: Five people including three policemen were killed and four injured when over 100 unidentified armed men attacked a police vehicle at the entrance of the University of Malakand at Chakdara in Lower Dir District.

• March 30: Seven persons, including 5 Army soldiers, were killed and 9 others sustained injuries when a suicide bomber rammed his explosive-laden car into a military convoy near a filling station on the Bannu-Miranshah Road.

• April 5: Police found bullet-riddled bodies of four local aid workers, including three women, in Shinkiari area of Mansehra District.

• April 15: At least 18 persons, including nine policemen, were killed and five others injured when a suicide bomber rammed an explosives-laden vehicle into the Harichand Police Post in Charsadda District.

• April 18: At least 27 SF personnel were killed and 55 others injured in a suicide attack on a security check post in the Doaba area of Hangu District.

• April 26: 12 children were killed after playing with a bomb that resembled a football. The children died after the toy-like-bomb exploded in Lower Dir District.

• May 1: The ISPR spokesman Major General Athar Abbas said two Frontier Corps personnel were killed when a suicide bomber blew up a booby-trapped house in the Buner District.

• May 4: A suicide car bomber killed 4 SF personnel and wounded 8 persons in the outskirts of Peshawar.

• May 5: Seven people, including 2 children and a Frontier Corps soldier, were killed and 48 others sustained injuries when an explosives-laden car rammed into a pick-up near a check-post on the Bara road near Peshawar.

• May 11: At least 10 people died and 27 were injured as a suicide bomber blew up his explosives-laden vehicle near a Frontier Corps check post in the outskirts of Darra Adam Khel.

• May 16: Two handicapped children and 2 of their teachers were among 11 people killed in a car bomb blast at congested City Circular Road, Peshawar. At least 33 people were injured.

• May 16: Six people, including two women and two children, sustained minor injuries when a low-intensity explosive device went off in a busy market in Peshawar.

• May 22: At least 10 people were killed and 65 others were injured when a powerful car bomb exploded near the Tasveer Mahal Cinema hall in the busy Kabuli Chowk area.

• May 28: Three policemen were killed and 9 others injured in a suicide attack on a police vehicle at the Sra Khawra security post on the Kohat road in the jurisdiction of Matani Police station on the outskirts of Peshawar.

• May 28: A policeman and 2 passers-by were killed and 13 people wounded when a suicide attacker exploded an auto-rickshaw near a police checkpoint in Dera Ismail Khan.

• June 5: A suicide bomber killed 49 worshippers, including 12 children, at a mosque in a remote village of the Dir Upper District. Dozens more were injured in the blast just before Friday congregation in the Hayagay Sharqi village.

• June 7: One non-commissioned officer was killed and five others were injured in an attack on security forces' convoy transporting TNSM deputy chief Maulana Alam and spokesman Amir Izaat to Peshawar, the NWFP capital. Both leaders of banned outfits were also killed in the attack.

• June 9: A massive truck suicide attack at the five-star Pearl Continental hotel in Peshawar killed 17 persons and injured 60 others.

• June 11: A man was killed and 13 others, including 9 policemen, sustained injuries in a hand grenade-cum-suicide attack on a police party in the Lateefabad area on Ring Road in Peshawar.

• June 11: NWFP Minister for Prisons Mian Nisar Gul Kakakhel was seriously injured and his two guards were killed when his convoy was ambushed by suspected militants in Darra Adam Khel.

• June 12: Five worshippers were killed and 105 others sustained injuries when a suicide bomber rammed his explosives-laden van into a mosque during the Friday prayers in the Cantonment area of Nowshera. Two soldiers were among the four persons killed on the spot while most of the 105 wounded were reportedly Army personnel.

• June 14: Nine people were killed and over 40 injured when a powerful explosion ripped through a busy market in Dera Ismail Khan.

• June 22: Two policemen were killed and 7 people, including 3 policemen, sustained injuries when a suicide bomber rammed his explosive-laden vehicle into the Thakot Police check-post in Battagram District.

• June 24: Three policemen, including an officer, were killed when some miscreants fired rockets and mortar shells at the Arbab Tapu check-post in the jurisdiction of Matani Police Station.

• July 2: Two policemen were killed and an equal number of people sustained injuries when Taliban targeted a police vehicle with a remote-controlled device in Peshawar.

• July 9: A Peshawar Electric Supply Company (PESCO) employee was killed and three injured when Taliban militants blew up an electricity pylon using a remote-controlled device in Merra Suraizai Payan village on the outskirts of the provincial capital Peshawar.

• July 15: Two people, including an official of the UNHCR, were killed and another injured when suspected Taliban militants attempted to abduct UN officials at the Katcha Ghari Refugee Camp in Nasir Bagh.

• July 15: Two children were injured in a rocket attack. Taliban militants fired three rockets from an unidentified location into the city at about 12:30pm, and one of them hit a house in Sethi Town, injuring a 13-year-old girl and a 15-year-old boy.

• July 20: Suspected militants of the Mangal Bagh group killed four policemen in an ambush on the outskirts of Peshawar.

• August 2: In the southern Mashogagar village, terrorists killed a prayer leader Qari Roohul Amin of Sulemankhel, who had been abducted on June 29, and placed three kilograms of explosives with his body to trigger it with a remote control device in the hope that policemen would come close to it. Officials of the bomb disposal squad, however, defused the explosives without any damage.

• August 2: Militants shot dead two policemen in Paharipura. A squad of the Paharipura Police Station was ambushed by unknown gunmen in Islamabad town of Peshawar around 2:30 am while patrolling the streets.

• August 10: Militants fired rockets at a paramilitary checkpoint in Peshawar, killing two civilians. The pre-dawn rocket attack targeted a Frontier Corps base in the city's Hayatabad neighborhood.

• August 16: A soldier was killed and three others sustained injuries in a suicide attack near a SFs checkpoint in the Swat District.

• August 17: Seven people were killed and eight others injured when a bomb placed in a vehicle exploded at a filling station in the Shabqadar area in Charsadda.

• August 18: Suspected militants beheaded a man kidnapped from the Matani area on August 12. Kabir Hussain, who had come from the US and was kidnapped on his way from Peshawar airport to his village Dabori in Kohat District.

• August 22: Two persons were killed and three others injured in a suicide blast in Hayatabad area. The blast occurred in sector N-I Phase IV of the area near the Hayatabad Medical Complex (HMC).

• August 23: Three persons were killed and 15 others sustained injuries in a powerful suicide blast close to the house of the slain AI spokesman, Mobin Afridi, in the Momin Town area of Peshawar

• August 30: At least 16 police recruits were killed and 11 others sustained injuries after a suicide bomber detonated explosives strapped to his body at the Mingora Police Station.

• September 4: Suspected militants shot dead two FC troopers in Nasir Bagh suburbs of Peshawar early in the morning while they were patrolling the area.

• September 12: Two policemen were injured in a suicide blast near Doaba Police Station in the Hangu District.

• September 18: At least 33 people were killed and more than 50 injured in a suicide car blast in Kohat District.

• September 26: Two suicide attackers separately rammed their explosives-laden vehicles into a Police station in Bannu and a military-owned commercial bank in Peshawar cantonment area, killing at least 27 people and injuring around another 200.

• September 28: At least four persons, including a prominent anti-Taliban cleric, were killed when a suicide bomber rammed his explosives-laden vehicle into a car at Bannu.

• October 6: A woman, a minor girl and a boy sustained injuries when a rocket hit a house in Miskeenabad under the jurisdiction of Bhanamari Police Station, Peshawar at around 2 am.

• October 9: At least 56 persons, including a woman and seven children, were killed and 112 others were injured when a suicide attacker detonated his explosives-laden car at the crowded Soekarno Chowk in Khyber Bazaar in Peshawar.

• October 12: At least 47 persons, including 9 security officials, were killed and 45 others were injured in a suicide attack on a military convoy in the Alpuri area of Shangla District, NWFP.

• October 15: At least 11 persons, including 3 policemen, were killed and 22 others sustained injuries when a suicide bomber rammed an explosives-laden vehicle into the building of the Saddar Police Station located in the military area of Kohat.

• October 15: An eight-year-old boy, identified as Hamza, was killed and 12 persons, including two policemen, were wounded when a powerful bomb exploded in a three-storey building in the officers’ colony of provincial capital Peshawar.

• October 16: At least 12 persons, including three policemen, were killed and 24 others sustained injuries after a suicide bomber rammed his explosives-laden vehicle into the CIA’s Special Investigation Unit in Peshawar.

• October 23: At least 15 people were injured in a bombing outside a restaurant in the Hayatabad area. The bomb was planted in a car.

• October 28: A remote-controlled car bomb killed 117 people – including women and children – and injured around 200 others at the Meena Bazaar in Peshawar.

• November 8: At least 18 people, including a local councillor heading an anti-Taliban Lashkar (militia), were killed and 44 others injured when a suicide bomber blew him up in a cattle market at Adezai village, 25 km south of the capital city of Peshawar.

• November 9: Three persons, including a policeman, were killed and 5 others sustained injuries when a suicide bomber riding an auto-rickshaw blew himself up at a police barricade on the Ring Road in the Latifabad area of Peshawar

• November 10: Suicide car bomb blast at Farooq-e-Azam Chowk, Charsadda. Thirty two people were killed and 80 were injured in the incident.

• November 12: Syed Abul Hassan Jaffry, media manager of the Iranian consulate in Peshawar, was shot dead near his home in Gulbarg. Jaffry was going to his office when he was shot at point-blank range as he turned his car towards the Swati Phatak.

• November 13: At least 17 people, including 10 military personnel, were killed and 60 injured when a suicide bomber on an explosive-laden Shehzore truck detonated the explosive material in front of the regional headquarters of the ISI in Peshawar

• November 13: Twelve people, including 5 security officials, were killed and 26 injured in a suicide attack at a Police Station in the Bannu town of Bannu District.

• November 14: At least 12 persons, including a policeman and a three-year-old child, were killed and another 35 injured when a suicide bomber detonated his explosives-laden vehicle at police check post in Pashta Kharra Chowk, Peshawar.

• November 16: Four persons were killed and more than 30 others sustained injuries in a suicide car bombing which targeted the Badhber Police Station on the Kohat Road near Peshawar.

• November 19: At least 20 people, including three policemen, were killed and 50 others injured when a suicide bomber blew himself up at the main gate of the Judicial Complex on Khyber Road in Peshawar.

• November 19: A bomb attack on the police van ripped through the vehicle, killing two policemen on the spot and wounding five civilians on the outskirts of Peshawar.

• November 25: The cleaner of an oil tanker, used for NATO forces in Afghanistan, was killed and its driver injured when unidentified gunmen attacked the vehicle on the Ring Road near Tor Baba.

• November 26: A remote-controlled bomb blast injured three people, including two policemen and a young girl, and destroyed an electricity pylon in Bashirabad area.

• November 30: Two police officials were injured when unidentified armed men attacked their vehicle on the Indus Highway, police said.

• December 1: A leading politician, Shamsher Ali Khan, was reportedly killed when a suicide bomber targeted a guest house where he was present. Another 8 people, including his brother, were injured in this attack.

• December 3: A police official was injured in an explosion at a police check-post in the Ragai area of capital Peshawar.

• December 5: At least four people, including a women, were killed and 12 people were injured in a car bomb explosion at United Plaza, Tehkal Market, University Road, Peshawar.

• December 7: At least 12 people, including 2 policemen, were killed and 50 were injured in a suicide attack outside a court in Peshawar.

• December 22: A suicide bomber blew himself at the gate of the Peshawar Press Club, killing 3 persons including a policeman, and injuring 17 others.

December 24: At least 5 people, including a policeman, were killed and 24 were injured in a suicide attack near State Life Building, Saddar, Mall Road, Peshawar. SAMAA
The timeline doesn't seem to end! How many innocent people Pakistani Talibans killed! :cry:

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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-12-2010, 12:13 PM
^Subhaan`Allaah!
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-12-2010, 12:17 PM
I believe there may be Good and Bad also involved in the group of Taliban. . .Thats my Onion :D

There are bad in every religion,society,etc etc bla bla. . .

Because both parties seem to justify themselves here,and brought their proof! . And Allaah indeed Knows best!

So yeah, please if ive said anything wrong dont be angry:(
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CosmicPathos
06-12-2010, 12:21 PM
Originally Posted by An33za
I think you'll learn a lot from here too!

SOURCE:

The timeline doesn't seem to end! How many innocent people Pakistani Talibans killed! :cry:

God, enough of emotional blackmailing. That list provides the numbers of people killed. Its sad, really. But where is the evidence that Taliban KILLED those people? Using the Western media to propagate agaisnt Taliban? Isnt it the West that you guys are against? Ooh wait, you guys have full access to Western TV in Pakistan and quite enjoy Western TV series. Not to mention your music. Ooh yea, Sufi Rock eh.

How many innocent people Pakistani army killed? How many innocent people MQM killed? How many innocent people Musharraf killed? You seem to be out of your senses, sister.
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aadil77
06-12-2010, 12:24 PM
BS I bet not even a quarter of these attacks were by the taliban, go ask your govt why american 'security' companies such as blackwater are present in pakistan, ask them why they bomb civilians

incidents such as the peshawar market attack and attack on islamic university have already been denied


anyway I'm not interested in the pak taliban, I doubt they will be able to make pakistan a shariah country
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-12-2010, 12:42 PM
^SubhaanAllaah
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S<Chowdhury
06-12-2010, 01:17 PM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
Using the Western media to propagate agaisnt Taliban? Isnt it the West that you guys are against?
This is my pet peeve right now, when people say your using Western Media obviously its going to make the Taliban look like "raping, woman degrading apes" well true but then you go and use Pro Anti Western Propaganda to prove your point obviously its going to make America and all the rest of the west as "oppressive, imperialistic oil stealing terrorists with soldiers raping and murdering " , usually it'll on show you half the picture to get there point across though i don't agree with the war, you all can't sit in your comfy western probably Chinese made or Ikea computer chair, starring into probably a Dell computer screen and talk about the" truth" of Afghanistan like you know the Taliban and you've been there and seen it with your own eyes what really is happening.......Sorry Bro's n Sister if I'm offending, I'm jus saying....................
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Masuma
06-12-2010, 01:43 PM
In the name of Allah the most Gracious, the most merciful!

Asalamu Alikum Wr Wb:

Sorry for a late reply but I've like loads to say now!

The article I posted before highlights deaths by suicide bombers which according to me are Taliban. You people say that no they aren't. So do you have any proofs too? :) So I think that rightly cancels out the first post.

Now to prove my point, I'll have to give you links where Talibans accept the responsibility of attacks. Right? And inshAllah i'll! :) But we will go one by one. Okay? Here are first two of mine.

Taliban claim responsibility for Kohat blasts:

Taliban suicide bomber kills 11 in Pakistan:

Please wait patiently. I'm coming with more inshAllah!
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aadil77
06-12-2010, 01:51 PM
Originally Posted by An33za
In the name of Allah the most Gracious, the most merciful!

Asalamu Alikum Wr Wb:

Sorry for a late reply but I've like loads to say now!

The article I posted before highlights deaths by suicide bombers which according to me are Taliban. You people say that no they aren't. So do you have any proofs too? :) So I think that rightly cancels out the first post.

Now to prove my point, I'll have to give you links where Talibans accept the responsibility of attacks. Right? And inshAllah i'll! :) But we will go one by one. Okay? Here are first two of mine.

Taliban claim responsibility for Kohat blasts:

Taliban suicide bomber kills 11 in Pakistan:

Please wait patiently. I'm coming with more inshAllah!
It seems you're ignoring my posts, so im not gonna bother replying to you

and don't derail the thread, its about the afghan taliban not the pak taliban
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Masuma
06-12-2010, 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
God, enough of emotional blackmailing. That list provides the numbers of people killed. Its sad, really. But where is the evidence that Taliban KILLED those people?
I thought to first ignore you but still... WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE THAT TALIBANS DIDN'T KILL THOSE PEOPLE?

Originally Posted by mad_scientist
Using the Western media to propagate agaisnt Taliban? Isnt it the West that you guys are against? Ooh wait, you guys have full access to Western TV in Pakistan and quite enjoy Western TV series. Not to mention your music. Ooh yea, Sufi Rock eh.
Doesn't offend me at all! :) And what proof do you have that I listen to music? If you don't know about anything, then isn't it better to work with wisdom and not pass any comments?

Originally Posted by mad_scientist
How many innocent people Pakistani army killed? How many innocent people MQM killed? How many innocent people Musharraf killed? You seem to be out of your senses, sister.
And you are totally going insane! To tell you the truth, your user name "mad" suits you! :) Believe me!

And did I ever in my whole life say that I support Musharaf, Pakistani Army etc??? You are so busted! MashAllah! YOu people support Pakistani Taliban and that is why I'm giving you reasons to not support them!
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Masuma
06-12-2010, 02:02 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
BS I bet not even a quarter of these attacks were by the taliban, go ask your govt why american 'security' companies such as blackwater are present in pakistan, ask them why they bomb civilians
For God's sake! Did I ever mention that I am only against Pakistani Talibans and not black water etc?! What's wrong with you people? :exhausted I hate both Pakistani Talibans as well as black water etc. Right now in this thread I'm only giving my reasons to hate Pakistani Talibans because here you people seem to be supporting Pakistani Talibans! In another thread where you may talk about black water, there I'll give my reasons to hate it too! As simple as that! :)
I don't deny that "black water's contribution to Pakistanis' slaughter but I also don't deny at all Pakistani Talibans killing us! But some of you here are supporting Pakistani Talibans and that is just so shocking!


Originally Posted by aadil77
anyway I'm not interested in the pak taliban, I doubt they will be able to make pakistan a shariah country
Good! :) Because Pakistani Talibans know nothing of Islam!
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Masuma
06-12-2010, 02:04 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
It seems you're ignoring my posts, so im not gonna bother replying to you
I'm not ignoring! Go read the previous post of mine! I'm just one person here answering two people and it would obviously take time!

Originally Posted by aadil77
and don't derail the thread, its about the afghan taliban not the pak taliban
Really? Am i the one who started supporting Taliban? :) It was some of YOU people here and so I had to give my proofs!
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Zafran
06-12-2010, 02:11 PM
The fact is that on both sides have wrongs. The Taleban do destroy womens school, ban TVs/ videos and force men not to shave and women to wear Burqas. - Its very hard to stick up for them realy - its like sticking up for the saudis about women driving?

The only thing you can say is good about the taleban is that they are fighting countries which are indvading there land - which they have every right to do so as Nato or any other power has no right to invade them.

The pak army are the puppets of the US and Nato as Zardari has his own interests to think about - He needs a place to stay when hes not the president. Not only that if pakistan didnt go with the US with this war then they would have also been fighting a war against the US. Pakistan being a weak nation is now even in a worse state - those bomb blasts do happen nearly every week in pakistan - its the country that has had more terrorists attacks then any other country in this past year - thanks to the US and its Nato allies and there stupid war stupid war.

They are destroying the two countries as we speak.
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Asiyah3
06-12-2010, 02:14 PM
:sl:
I don't know.
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Masuma
06-12-2010, 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by S<Chowdhury
Brother you really see the Taliban as the only hope for the Ummah.....oh jeeez i hope they aren't, by all means we should be able to defend our country in the face of foreign invasion but now your trying to make the Taliban out to be some sort of saint ? Giving rights to Women and Wiping Out the Drug Trade ?
I totally agree! :statisfie

@ brother aadill:
And brother, if you didn't agree with my point, you could have just ignored it! I was only giving my opinion! I don't take Taliban as my "only" hope! I take Daees of Allah as a hope and please not the "only hope but just "a" hope!

And then it was all you people here starting to support murderers and not accepting the facts that Talibans killed many in Pakistan! You people were supporting them, making them look like saints, and sort of propounding that they didn't kill any! This I found totally wrong and I would never support anything which is wrong!
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Masuma
06-12-2010, 02:31 PM
Okay people, brother aadill77 minds me posting here :cry: so I'll create a new thread describing all the suicide attacks done by Pakistani talibans! And I won't present to you one sided picture! I would only give you those reports in which Pakistani taliban accepts the responsibility of suicide attacks so as to eliminate all the doubts and to shut the mouth of people who support falsehood and lies! InshAllah!
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Asiyah3
06-12-2010, 02:33 PM
^Sister, from what I've understood bro Aadil also disapproves of such deeds.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-12-2010, 02:55 PM
Aslaamu`3Laaykum and
Yo Sistahs and Brothaz seee this :

"If you cannot be of benefit to the Muslims, then do not harm them; if you cannot make them happy, then do not make them sorrowful; if you cannot please them, then do not abuse them; and if you cannot praise them, then do not disparage them."
[Yahya ibn Mu’adh]


Please dont be angry with me sorry, just trynna cheer people up :statisfie(not saying anyone is upset/down or whatever!) Just felt lyk it :D

So yeah and smile :statisfie

Wa`3Laaykum Salaam

Ps.(I apologise sincerely if i have gone off topic)
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Ummu Sufyaan
06-12-2010, 02:59 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by An33za
"wipping drugs out" is what I agree but I don't at all agree with this clause "their genuine dedication to islam". Do you know they even banned women going to school?! Is this what Islam says?? Is this?

Prophet's hadith is that "it is compulsory for every Muslim men and women to seek knowledge". So are they supporting and implementing this? Are they? And you know the answer!
misconception that the taliban don't allow for women to be educated! one of our family friends is afghani, and she's a qualified dentist!
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Masuma
06-12-2010, 05:13 PM
^ Of course people would still be dentist and doctors even if Taliban doesn't allow it! That doesn't make sense! I read it in news that Talibans banned Muslimahs school. They even blasted their school buildings. Not all of the Afghani Talibans are bad! But some of their policies are!

There are still thousands of Afghani women who are educated! So that doesn't change the fact that Talibans banned girls' schools!
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Ummu Sufyaan
06-13-2010, 01:33 AM
^just out of pure interest, what media, other than the likes of CNN, and secularist/modernist media based outlets have you actually heard this from? has it been confirmed by someone reliable or has it been confirmed by someone with an agenda?
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LauraS
06-13-2010, 09:09 PM
^^Schools for girls were banned, it was a law and is confirmed by people from Afghanistan. Schools accepting girls are being attacked, again reported by people from Afghanistan.
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Woodrow
06-13-2010, 09:37 PM
I really doubt if any of us know who the Taliban are. It does not seem to be any centralized unit and consists of various groups of young people with idealistic views. Like all groups each is individual some good and some bad. Many wear the name Taliban. some are/were former CIA operatives that were fighting Russians for America. Some are/were mecenaries recruited by the various tribal chiefs to keep the populace in line. Others may or may not be genuine sincere Muslims fighting for the cause of Allaah(swt).

But there is some reason so many scholars and Teachers throughout India,Afghanistan and Pakistan are opposed to the Taliban.

The Taliban ("Students of Islamic Knowledge Movement") seems to be a movement rather than any particular group. the ideals of the movement I strongly support. But does any group that follows the Taliban ideals exist and if so where are they? It seems every group who is claiming to be ousting foreign troops is using the name Taliban. I fear some of these groups may prove to be worse than Black Water or the NATO forces. Because a group is fighting under the name of Taliban is no guarantee they are fighting for Islam.
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cat eyes
06-13-2010, 10:26 PM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
God, enough of emotional blackmailing. That list provides the numbers of people killed. Its sad, really. But where is the evidence that Taliban KILLED those people? Using the Western media to propagate agaisnt Taliban? Isnt it the West that you guys are against? Ooh wait, you guys have full access to Western TV in Pakistan and quite enjoy Western TV series. Not to mention your music. Ooh yea, Sufi Rock eh.

How many innocent people Pakistani army killed? How many innocent people MQM killed? How many innocent people Musharraf killed? You seem to be out of your senses, sister.
where is the prove taliban didnt do this brother??

we can sit here and argue until we are blue in the face. how can a person who lives in the west possibly know anything?

IRA also claimed they were so called freedom fighters but they killed there own people too.
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Tyrion
06-13-2010, 11:22 PM
I'm Afghan (American), and from what I've heard from my parents and family, the Taliban in Afghanistan have done nothing but oppress and mistreat the people, and I've heard nothing but stories of murder and injustice. I'm not sure what they're like now, but the experience my family seems to have had with them years back doesn't seem to suggest that they followed Islamic teachings. To me, it just sounds like they hide behind the banner of Islam while they do what they please.
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Lynx
06-14-2010, 12:47 AM
I don't understand why aadil has to perpetuate this ridiculous support for the Taliban. Anyone else here think fighting off invading armies is not sufficient to give them any right to run a country? Seriously, does any supporter of the Taliban actually think they had the brains to run a country? They fell short on their (islamic) duty of producing enough educated people to like...you know , save the country from starvation and things like that. Must be the same mentality weirdos have thinking if they have 8 kids God will provide food from the sky for them.
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Ummu Sufyaan
06-14-2010, 01:45 AM
^touch-eee.
whats the matter, a nerve got hit eh.
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aadil77
06-14-2010, 08:08 AM
Originally Posted by Lynx
I don't understand why aadil has to perpetuate this ridiculous support for the Taliban. Anyone else here think fighting off invading armies is not sufficient to give them any right to run a country?
LOL at the moment it is sufficient, atleast it will guarantee people security and freedom from a corrupted drug dealing puppet govt
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Rhubarb Tart
06-14-2010, 02:51 PM
May Allah(swt) protect Afghanis from danger, assist them in seeking a better future. May Allah (swt) make the truth clearer and protect us from those who are trying to harm us. Ameen
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Rhubarb Tart
06-14-2010, 02:58 PM
I think we should leave this argument alone now. None of us will ever know what they stand for or what they are truly fighting for. We do not have such knowledge about them to give our full support. So I still don’t get how people can give their full support without knowing their full circumstances !?!

The best we can do is pray for those that are fighting for Islam (whether it is the Taliban or not) and give assistance to those that need our help (either go there and help the people or send clothes, food and money).
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aadil77
06-14-2010, 06:20 PM
Originally Posted by sweet106
I think we should leave this argument alone now. None of us will ever know what they stand for or what they are truly fighting for. We do not have such knowledge about them to give our full support. So I still don’t get how people can give their full support without knowing their full circumstances !?!

The best we can do is pray for those that are fighting for Islam (whether it is the Taliban or not) and give assistance to those that need our help (either go there and help the people or send clothes, food and money).
Arab businessmen are paying millions to the taliban, I'm sure they know they know what they're fighting for
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LauraS
06-14-2010, 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrion
I'm Afghan (American), and from what I've heard from my parents and family, the Taliban in Afghanistan have done nothing but oppress and mistreat the people, and I've heard nothing but stories of murder and injustice. I'm not sure what they're like now, but the experience my family seems to have had with them years back doesn't seem to suggest that they followed Islamic teachings. To me, it just sounds like they hide behind the banner of Islam while they do what they please.
Unfortunately, the opinion of people from Afghanistan who dislike the taliban tends to be brushed over in these arguments....
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Mohamed_Sadiq
06-14-2010, 07:07 PM
Can someone tell me ... why did the Nato soldiers came to afghanistan, was it to have a 'so called' war with Taliban or Al-qaeda or both. I know Taliban used to fight with the russians because of the invasion and the genocide of Russia towards afghanistani.
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Woodrow
06-14-2010, 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
Arab businessmen are paying millions to the taliban, I'm sure they know they know what they're fighting for
Yet nearly all of their weapons are American made. What do the Taliban do with these millions paid to them by Arab Businessmen? That makes me wonder now as to just where that money is going. It does not seem to be going for weapons as there is still a very large amount that was left by the Americans when the Taliban were fighting the Russians along with huge storage piles of Russian weapons that were captured.
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Lynx
06-14-2010, 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
LOL at the moment it is sufficient, atleast it will guarantee people security and freedom from a corrupted drug dealing puppet govt
How can anyone be free under Taliban control? Is your definition of Freedom 'to be able to do less and seek less opportunities?"

And security isn't going to bring food on the table. Anyone with a rational brain can see why the taliban are the last group of people to be put in power. It's lunacy! It boggles my mind that someone can sit there and look at the taliban and be like 'okay, these guys can run the country'. Come on, use your brain, despite whatever hatred you have towards NATO, and stop saying ridiculous things.
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aadil77
06-14-2010, 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by Lynx
How can anyone be free under Taliban control? Is your definition of Freedom 'to be able to do less and seek less opportunities?"

And security isn't going to bring food on the table. Anyone with a rational brain can see why the taliban are the last group of people to be put in power. It's lunacy! It boggles my mind that someone can sit there and look at the taliban and be like 'okay, these guys can run the country'. Come on, use your brain, despite whatever hatred you have towards NATO, and stop saying ridiculous things.
security keeps them alive better than being dead because of western hatred and greed
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aadil77
06-14-2010, 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Yet nearly all of their weapons are American made. What do the Taliban do with these millions paid to them by Arab Businessmen? That makes me wonder now as to just where that money is going. It does not seem to be going for weapons as there is still a very large amount that was left by the Americans when the Taliban were fighting the Russians along with huge storage piles of Russian weapons that were captured.
America made weapons? I didn't know that I thought all their weapons were either russian or hand built replica's

Western sources state the taliban are paying fighters more than the ANA get paid, that might be it?
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Tilmeez
06-14-2010, 08:33 PM
Taliban is not a group. Its a history. Unfortunately many of us don't know it all.And most of us don't have personal experience of meeting/seeing Taliban.

To understand Taliban we need to know history of the Vietnam War and the cold war. We also will have to understand the psycology of an Afghan: they either live freely or prefer dying for freedom. We will also need to know pre occupation (of Russia) era of the Kings of Afghanistan in which there was no differance between Mascow and Kabul (Afghans were also happy living communist lives).

Original Taliban were nothing but students and teachers of Afghan schools gathered/organised by US through Pakistan.(Later many other people from all around the world joined them)

They were used against Russia by US to revange Vietnam war. For this US has given every possible support including weapons (even classified weapons most popular example is Stinger. Taliban had to return the empty catridge of the misal).

Once they broke Russia they were now fully trained for almost every thing.

They tried to establish the state they were told(by US) to fight for. And they were a success. And this was a turning point as US could not stand to an Independant Islamic State specialy when they refused to US dictation for running the show.

In Taliban era for the first time in Afgan history opium cultivation touched the Zero.

Taliban controled areas had zero crime rate as justice was very easy and instant.

They literaly estabished Khilpha and they were firm on rules.There were no law and order problem in the country a common man was safe and sound unless he had commited any unislamic deed.

I personally know many Afghanis who always pray for Taliban's era. Even there was hunger in that era but that were the most peaceful years Afghans has ever seen in last twenty years.

Today Afghanistan's streets are flooded with dollars but even Afghan President is not safe outside presidential Palace.

Talibans are now also divided. Some of them have come back to Pakistan and has started their own BUSINESS: kidnape a businesman and receive heavey amounts of money in no longer than ten days.


I believe Afghans be left free to decide who they want to live with Taliban or Imported democrecy being imposed by the world's biggest contarctor of the democrecy - the US.
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Woodrow
06-14-2010, 08:41 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
America made weapons? I didn't know that I thought all their weapons were either russian or hand built replica's

Western sources state the taliban are paying fighters more than the ANA get paid, that might be it?
For Starters,




Now if the taliban are paying fighters more than what the ANA pays, are they fighting for Allaah(swt) or are they mercenaries fighting for profit? Would they still fight if the Taliban stopped paying them? Who will they side with if the USA offers them more than what they get from the Taliban? How do they differ from the Blackwater mercenaries?
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aadil77
06-14-2010, 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
For Starters,




Now if the taliban are paying fighters more than what the ANA pays, are they fighting for Allaah(swt) or are they mercenaries fighting for profit? Would they still fight if the Taliban stopped paying them? Who will they side with if the USA offers them more than what they get from the Taliban? How do they differ from the Blackwater mercenaries?
Those weapons are recently seized weapons, they're from captured FOB's, not a huge stockpile, the average FOB has about that many artilery shells

News articles state that the taliban are paying $500 a month to fighters, they also get paid for every soldier they kill, capture, every vehicle they destroy, every weapon they seize

now how do we know if any of this is true, I seriously doubt they could pay that much, but even if they are getting paid wages who are we to judge their intentions? Do their actions not speak louder? They all have families they have to support, when they die the money will probably be there to support their families

blackwater terrorists will do anything for money, even blow up schools and masjids
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Woodrow
06-14-2010, 08:54 PM
However the most commonly used weapon by the taliban are IED's (Improvised Explosive Devices) These are low cost explosives made from common household items. Very low cost. They are the weapon that has caused the most casualties among the NATO forces. But they are not a major expense and nearly any high school student can afford to make them. The most expensive IED probably cost only a couple of dollars at most and most likely can be made for free from abandoned household goods.
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aadil77
06-14-2010, 09:00 PM
^yep but their guns are mostly russian or replicas, they very rarely manage to seize american guns
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Woodrow
06-14-2010, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
Those weapons are recently seized weapons, they're from captured FOB's, not a huge stockpile, the average FOB has about that many artilery shells

News articles state that the taliban are paying $500 a month to fighters, they also get paid for every soldier they kill, capture, every vehicle they destroy, every weapon they seize

now how do we know if any of this is true, I seriously doubt they could pay that much, but even if they are getting paid wages who are we to judge their intentions? Do their actions not speak louder? They all have families they have to support, when they die the money will probably be there to support their families

blackwater terrorists will do anything for money, even blow up schools and masjids
Yes the weapons are seized. But there are many bunkers of abandoned weapons left by Americans and Russians. Weapons are not a major expense. There are at least 1,000, 000 Russian land mines scattered all over Afghanistan that when found can be used. Weapons are not a major expense. There are many bunkers full of American weapons abandoned when the Russians were defeated and were not seen to be of any further use by the then American backed Taliban.

Soldiers that fight for money are seldom trust worthy soldiers no matter how badly they need the money.
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Woodrow
06-14-2010, 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
^yep but their guns are mostly russian or replicas, they very rarely manage to seize american guns
I have not seen any evidence of replica guns. But even if such exist, they would still require ammunition. I will admit the Taliban has become very proficient at making IEDs and those seem to be the most used weapon by them.
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Woodrow
06-14-2010, 09:18 PM
What seems to be a major source of Taliban weapons:

KABUL — Insurgents in Afghanistan, fighting from some of the poorest and most remote regions on earth, have managed for years to maintain an intensive guerrilla war against materially superior American and Afghan forces.


Weapons from a police post linked to an attack on Americans. Most rifles were the kind issued by the United States.


Arms and ordnance collected from dead insurgents hint at one possible reason: Of 30 rifle magazines recently taken from insurgents’ corpses, at least 17 contained cartridges, or rounds, identical to ammunition the United States had provided to Afghan government forces, according to an examination of ammunition markings by The New York Times and interviews with American officers and arms dealers.
SOURCE

But I do agree all foreign forces NATO and Taliban need to get out of Afghanistan and let the people live with their own choices
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aadil77
06-15-2010, 12:56 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
I have not seen any evidence of replica guns. But even if such exist, they would still require ammunition. I will admit the Taliban has become very proficient at making IEDs and those seem to be the most used weapon by them.
Theunjustmedia: Where are you getting your weapons’, we keep hearing that Iran and China are providing you weapons.

Commander Tahir Afghan: Lets go back in history when the USSR invaded Afghanistan, at that time USSR brought so much weapons into Afghanistan, during that time the Mujahideen during fighting booty large stocks of weapons, plus when the USSR where kick out of Afghanistan by the Mujahideen they left behind very large stocks of their weapons, which included rockets, rocket-launchers, Kalashnikovs, Sakeel guns, anti-air craft guns, bullets, landmines and tanks, also in the last nine years of the current invasion, the Mujahideen have booty many invaders and their puppets weapons, like tanks, rockets, military vehicles, small and large guns.

In today’s fighting in Afghanistan, the main weapon of the Mujahideen is the Improvise explosive device (IED), which has inflicting the most losses to the ranks of the invaders, and these IED's are being manufactured in Afghanistan by the Mujahideen themselves.

Recently, the Mujahideen have made a new IED called Omar which is remotely detonated, this IED has few specialties, on one hand its manufacturing cost is very minimal, while on the other hand it is very destructive, the manufacturing cost of this landmine is only US $100, but it can destroy the invaders million dollar worth military vehicle and one more specialty of this IED is that, the invaders IED detecting vehicles and equipment can not detect this IED, so the allegation against the Mujahideen that they are getting help from Iran or China is a mere propaganda, with a hidden agenda.

The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan invites journalists to come and see for themselves the weapons which the Emirate Mujahideen are using to fight the invaders and their puppets, this way the fraud of the fraudster can be exposed and the truth can manifest it self.
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Woodrow
06-15-2010, 01:13 PM
I agree the IEDs are home made by the Taliban themselves and I also agree they are the most effective weapon used by the Taliban. but, they are very low cost and do not require the Millions of dollars the Saudi Businessmen seem to be providing the Taliban with. so the question still remains, what is happening to the surplus money?
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aadil77
06-15-2010, 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
I agree the IEDs are home made by the Taliban themselves and I also agree they are the most effective weapon used by the Taliban. but, they are very low cost and do not require the Millions of dollars the Saudi Businessmen seem to be providing the Taliban with. so the question still remains, what is happening to the surplus money?
I don't know, they must be helping fellow afghans too. We can't say they're not in need of money

But heres proof that arabs are funding them, its a pity all arab govt are puppets states, we cannot even support the jihad of our brothers without being arrested by muslims, the whole muslim world is a sellout and kaffir bootlickers. How were they funding terrorism? May Allah deal justly with the traitors of the ummah

DUBAI: Five Emiratis and an Afghan national have received jail terms in the United Arab Emirates for funding the Taliban, local newspapers reported on Wednesday.


The six men “were sentenced to three years in jail for funding the Taliban,” Gulf News reported. Two men were acquitted of similar charges.


The Afghan was given money by the other five “to channel it to Afghanistan,” the daily said.


The Taliban, which was forced from power in 2001, is engaged in an insurgency against Afghanistan’s Western-backed government and international military forces there. The group also operates in Pakistan.


Two Emiratis, Rashid Dawood and Abdullah Hassan, were given an additional year for “attempting to set up an organization to enforce a strict code of Islam” which “the court said attacked civil liberties,” Gulf News said.


Khaleej Times said two Emiratis, whom it did not identify, assaulted “three Emiratis and a Bangladeshi, leaving them disabled for about 20 days,” in connection with punishing “people for what they claimed were offenses.”



Al-Ittihad newspaper said the trial before the Supreme Court began in early September.


The newspaper said at the time the prosecution accused two defendants of financing terror and six others of promoting and supporting terrorism.


The prosecution submitted evidence from computers and documents seized when the defendants were arrested in October 2008, among a group of 21 people, the newspaper said.


Charges against 13 people, including 12 Emiratis and an Egyptian, who was deported, were dropped, it said.


Such trials are rare in the relatively stable UAE, a federation of seven emirates where foreigners make up more than 80 percent of the population. – AFP



Read more: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article....#ixzz0qvseYZx0
(The Daily Star :: Lebanon News :: http://www.dailystar.com.lb)
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Woodrow
06-15-2010, 03:07 PM
I suspect somebody in Afghanistan is getting quite rich off of money people think they are giving to help the Taliban fight NATO forces.

An interesting read here:

One issue under review by the ministry’s Foreign Defense Assistance and Export Organization, known by its Hebrew acronym, SIBAT, is a Turkish request for Israeli electronic warfare systems, the London magazine reported.

Turkey’s military has also shown interest in the Spike anti-tank missile manufactured by Rafael Advanced Defense Systems and the Barak-8 naval air-defense missile produced by state-run Israel Aerospace Industry.

Relations between Israel and Turkey have been steadily deteriorating since the Israeli militaryinvaded the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip on Dec. 27, 2008, ostensibly to stifle rocket attacks, and fought a 22-day war before withdrawing Jan. 18, 2009, in the face of international condemnation.

Some 1,300 Palestinians, mostly civilians, were killed in the all-arms onslaught. Israeli casualties were 13 killed, nine of them soldiers.

That effectively ended a landmark 1996 military cooperation agreement, which covered a wide range of intelligence-sharing, between Israel and Turkey, an overwhelmingly Muslim nation and NATO’s only Muslim member.

Israel’s defense industry benefited from big-ticket sales to Turkey over the years
.
SOURCE


Over the years I have seen that historically anytime weapons of war are sold, openly, privately, legally or illegally--- a Jewish business will profit. Do not be surprised if it turns out those Arab businessmen are unknowingly helping Israel kill Palestinians
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LauraS
06-15-2010, 10:15 PM
From the autobiography of an Afghan woman I'm reading here are some other things that may interest you:

Hindu women were made to wear yellow burqas a colour that is associated in Afghanistan with hatred.

Women were not even allowed to show so much as their hands.

During Ramadan women were not even allowed to leave their houses.

The taliban used to take young women forceably from their homes to marry their soldiers, they would rape women.

Kite flying, very popular in Afghanistan at one point I understand was banned, along with television and music that wasn't relreligious. Women were not allowed on radio.

Women were beaten for laughing to loudly, it was thought of as being provocative.

Yes education was banned for women, but not the protect them, they thought it was the gateway to hell for women.

Women were not to be seen by male doctors, yet banning education meant women could not study to become doctors. The taliban would beat patients in hospitals for transgressing any laws. Here is a passage from the book with the writer saw someone who had tried to kill herself:

"she told me that her mother suffered from asthma and had gone to hospital for treatment. Soon after reaching the hospital, she had suffered an asthma attack and had taken off her burqa as she fought for breath inthe ward. A Taliban had burst into the ward and given her mother forty lashes while the daughter watched, helpless to intervene. The nurses had done nothing to stop the beating. The daughter, who was twenty years old, explained why she had wanted to commit suicide: 'If I can't even help my mother when she is sick, then what is the good of living?' "

Don't just say she is a feminist or whatever, there is photographic evidence out there of things described in her book and RAWA are helped by men. You can't say laws didn't really exist and were being made up to make the Taliban look bad. Remember what was said by the poster further down with family from Afghanistan.
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Tyrion
06-15-2010, 10:23 PM
Adding on to the above post, I just wanted to say that I don't understand how someone can so enthusiastically promote the Taliban when you have Afghans who have actually lived under their rule telling you how evil they were. My own family left Afghanistan partly because of the Taliban, and some of the stories I've heard are just disgusting.
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aadil77
06-15-2010, 10:27 PM
Thanks for that whole load of crap, now go listen to what the taliban actually said about this propaganda - http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...re-9-11-a.html

Kite flying was banned cause kids slicing their hands open due to the sharp metal wire they would use, they would also get stuck on pylons

She claims education was banned so clearly she's lying
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LauraS
06-15-2010, 10:44 PM
There was a lot more said than just the banning of kite flying. Banning of education for girls is a fact. The Tabliban speaking out for themselves? Of course, that isn't propoganda at all.
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aadil77
06-15-2010, 10:53 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
There was a lot more said than just the banning of kite flying. Banning of education for girls is a fact. The Tabliban speaking out for themselves? Of course, that isn't propoganda at all.
not if its supported by facts and evidence, they did not ban the education of women nor the right for women to work, why don't you go ask the women who studied at womens institutes made by UN or the women who would women in the taliba govt; ministry of education etc?

the issue was segregation, they wanted the same segregation system like in saudi, but they did not have enough money and resources to build seperates schools, they actually called on western nations for help in such matters
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Asiyah3
06-15-2010, 11:08 PM
****edit (Not sure about the source)****
Reply

Trumble
06-16-2010, 06:48 AM
Originally Posted by aadil77
Thanks for that whole load of crap,
Are you ever going to shut up with YOUR crap? Your mindless and puerile insulting of those who don't share your level of gullibility is becoming tedious. Why not OPEN YOUR EYES and try listening to someone OTHER than Taliban propagandists?
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Tyrion
06-16-2010, 07:11 AM
Brother aadil, I've noticed that you seem to be ignoring what the people who have actually dealt with the Taliban have to say on the matter. The vast majority of Afghans I've encountered are against the Taliban, and have seen some pretty atrocious things done by them in the name of Islam. I wonder why you continue to deny the opinion of those who have actually seen these people in action, and why you defend a group who you seem to know little or nothing about...
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Masuma
06-16-2010, 07:29 AM
Originally Posted by Trumble
Are you ever going to shut up with YOUR crap? Your mindless and puerile insulting of those who don't share your level of gullibility is becoming tedious. Why not OPEN YOUR EYES and try listening to someone OTHER than Taliban propagandists?
Look, brother Trumble, your insulting too. If you would call someone having a "crap", believe me, you'll receive the same the same sort of compliment back. So why not just remain friendly and try to get our point across nicely? :) I see no harm in it.
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Masuma
06-16-2010, 07:33 AM
Originally Posted by Tyrion
Brother aadil, I've noticed that you seem to be ignoring what the people who have actually dealt with the Taliban have to say on the matter. The vast majority of Afghans I've encountered are against the Taliban, and have seen some pretty atrocious things done by them in the name of Islam. I wonder why you continue to deny the opinion of those who have actually seen these people in action, and why you defend a group who you seem to know little or nothing about...
Brother aadill77:

Brother Tyrion does have a point. And I know that there are good and bad people on both sides but why to support Taliban so much and not agreeing to the sources which portray their evil side?

Don't you think brother Tyrion, because he has lived there under their control, would know better than us?
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CosmicPathos
06-16-2010, 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
There was a lot more said than just the banning of kite flying. Banning of education for girls is a fact. The Tabliban speaking out for themselves? Of course, that isn't propoganda at all.
lol. ban those **** kites. Kiteflying, basant, the useless hobby due to which hundreds of kids die in Pakistan. Eliminate this festival of basant from Muslim lands. Send its followers into oblivion.
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CosmicPathos
06-16-2010, 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by An33za
For God's sake! Did I ever mention that I am only against Pakistani Talibans and not black water etc?! What's wrong with you people? :exhausted I hate both Pakistani Talibans as well as black water etc. Right now in this thread I'm only giving my reasons to hate Pakistani Talibans because here you people seem to be supporting Pakistani Talibans! In another thread where you may talk about black water, there I'll give my reasons to hate it too! As simple as that! :)
I don't deny that "black water's contribution to Pakistanis' slaughter but I also don't deny at all Pakistani Talibans killing us! But some of you here are supporting Pakistani Talibans and that is just so shocking!



Good! :) Because Pakistani Talibans know nothing of Islam!
I am happy to be "mad scientist."

You said that Pakistani talibans know nothing of Islam. OOH Okay. So YOU know about Islam? Or your Pakistani fellow countrymen know about Islam? When a soldier is killed (they call them shaheed in Pakistan), you know how they are burried? With Band Baja and salami of guns ... thats Islam eh.

Have you ever seen teh wedding festivals fo your country men? My friend is depressed because he cannot get married. Why cant he? because he doesnt have $50,000 to go to Pakistan to spend on his wedding for maintaining his izzat in front of his munafiq elite extended family. His dad wants him to get married to someone "with "good" family." Good family means rich people with ruling history for generations in the past. Jageerdari. Syeds. Property worth crores of rupees. All that crap. That Islam eh!

Dont get me started on what you guys actually do on wedding events starting from mehndi to rukhsati.
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aadil77
06-16-2010, 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by An33za
Don't you think brother Tyrion, because he has lived there under their control, would know better than us?
He said his parents lived their and they left afghanistan 'partly' because of the taliban - I'd like to hear why they 'partly' left because of the taliban

I know people who have met the taliban cause their grandparents live there, I'll ask them to post here
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Masuma
06-16-2010, 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
He said his parents lived their and they left afghanistan 'partly' because of the taliban - I'd like to hear why they 'partly' left because of the taliban

I know people who have met the taliban cause their grandparents live there, I'll ask them to post here
Seriously, I don't know brother. but it is so wrong to believe that Afghani Talibans are saints. They live in a country where the social life is at its ruins! No proper education or anything. So in this case, it won't be ill-logical to accept that there are some black sheep among Afghani Talibans. Mainly due to illiteracy and other problems.

But Allah knows best.
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aadil77
06-16-2010, 07:46 PM
No one said they're saints, but I can't see how conditions would be so bad that they'd have to leave the country. It could be due to the economic situation there, if you listen to that interview of the taliban envoy he said that because of UN sanctions on afghanistan the country was in a mess - he kept on repeating they need foreign aid and help
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CosmicPathos
06-17-2010, 02:43 AM
Aneeza, I see that you have chosen to avoid replying to the truth that I portrayed in the last comment of mine.

Now you are attacking taliban as "no education system" in Afghanistan and they are "not saints." We never claimed they are saints. Ooh yea, what kind of education system is in Pakistan? Do you know that whatever education is in Pakistan (secular education), it is due to efforts of liberal, atheist, or modernistic Pakistanis? How much role religious Muslim Pakistanis have played in gaining mental superiority over the atheist, liberal and kaafir Pakistanis? There should be no place for kaafir people to live in Pakistan who are against Islam. I reckon Pakistan means "place for the pure people." By allowing kaafirs to live in your country, are you Pakistani Muslims somehow indirectly saying that kaafirs are pure too?
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CosmicPathos
06-17-2010, 03:00 AM
Originally Posted by LauraS
From the autobiography of an Afghan woman I'm reading here are some other things that may interest you:

Hindu women were made to wear yellow burqas a colour that is associated in Afghanistan with hatred.

Women were not even allowed to show so much as their hands.

During Ramadan women were not even allowed to leave their houses.

The taliban used to take young women forceably from their homes to marry their soldiers, they would rape women.

Kite flying, very popular in Afghanistan at one point I understand was banned, along with television and music that wasn't relreligious. Women were not allowed on radio.

Women were beaten for laughing to loudly, it was thought of as being provocative.

Yes education was banned for women, but not the protect them, they thought it was the gateway to hell for women.

Women were not to be seen by male doctors, yet banning education meant women could not study to become doctors. The taliban would beat patients in hospitals for transgressing any laws. Here is a passage from the book with the writer saw someone who had tried to kill herself:

"she told me that her mother suffered from asthma and had gone to hospital for treatment. Soon after reaching the hospital, she had suffered an asthma attack and had taken off her burqa as she fought for breath inthe ward. A Taliban had burst into the ward and given her mother forty lashes while the daughter watched, helpless to intervene. The nurses had done nothing to stop the beating. The daughter, who was twenty years old, explained why she had wanted to commit suicide: 'If I can't even help my mother when she is sick, then what is the good of living?' "

Don't just say she is a feminist or whatever, there is photographic evidence out there of things described in her book and RAWA are helped by men. You can't say laws didn't really exist and were being made up to make the Taliban look bad. Remember what was said by the poster further down with family from Afghanistan.
I keep coming back to this point again and again cuz I am getting hysterical on your ignorance, you little illiterate woman.

Kite flying is even more popular in Punjab than it is among Afghanis. Do you even know that?

You are passing comments with no knowledge of local niche and cultures.

Kiteflying kills hundreds of kids every year. Only if your son had died while he was flying kites then I would see if you had the courage to argue for the positive case of allowing kite flying.
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Rhubarb Tart
06-17-2010, 03:29 AM
Are you suggesting Pakistan caters for kaafirs living there? I beg to differ.


Does anyone know if Taliban in Pakistani claimed responsibility for the attacks? If they haven’t, we shouldn’t make the assumption they did.
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CosmicPathos
06-17-2010, 04:38 AM
Originally Posted by sweet106
Are you suggesting Pakistan caters for kaafirs living there? I beg to differ.


Does anyone know if Taliban in Pakistani claimed responsibility for the attacks? If they haven’t, we shouldn’t make the assumption they did.
what do you mean by that?
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LauraS
06-17-2010, 10:14 AM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
I keep coming back to this point again and again cuz I am getting hysterical on your ignorance, you little illiterate woman.

Kite flying is even more popular in Punjab than it is among Afghanis. Do you even know that?

You are passing comments with no knowledge of local niche and cultures.

Kiteflying kills hundreds of kids every year. Only if your son had died while he was flying kites then I would see if you had the courage to argue for the positive case of allowing kite flying.
You little illiterate woman? What the hell? lol!

The kite flying was just one in a much longer list and I only mentioned it once so there's no need to get hysterical, little man. There are many more important issues than kite flying like beating people in the streets for owning a television, for having a hairstyle similar to Leonardo DiCaprio when Titanic was popular or for not even covering your hands if you are a woman. If all the restrictions are actually for the good of women why do they react so violently if their pathetic little rules aren't followed? I suggest you start listening to the people of Afghanistan and not to their own excuses.
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Muslimeen
06-18-2010, 12:10 PM
I am sure you have heard or read these allegations all in the western media. Don't believe everything you read. The taliban ruled according to sharia law, which is much more humane than any other law. You should read or listen to Yvonne Ridley's "From Captive to Convert".
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Muslimeen
06-18-2010, 12:18 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
No one said they're saints, but I can't see how conditions would be so bad that they'd have to leave the country. It could be due to the economic situation there, if you listen to that interview of the taliban envoy he said that because of UN sanctions on afghanistan the country was in a mess - he kept on repeating they need foreign aid and help
Whether they are saints or not, Allah knows best. All I can say is they are the only MEN amongst the muslim ummah who have taken the courage to stand up against the American barbarians. It reminds me of the time of Sahaba when they remained firm in the face of adversity even though the entire world was against them. The position of the taliban is somewhat similar, remeber the infamous words "Either you are with us or against us". The entire world bent down to kiss their behinds besides the taliban. May allah grant them victory. Ameen
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Muslimeen
06-18-2010, 12:26 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
I don't know, they must be helping fellow afghans too. We can't say they're not in need of money

But heres proof that arabs are funding them, its a pity all arab govt are puppets states, we cannot even support the jihad of our brothers without being arrested by muslims, the whole muslim world is a sellout and kaffir bootlickers. How were they funding terrorism? May Allah deal justly with the traitors of the ummah
I totally agree. Islam has been harmed more by traitors than the kuffaar. That is why Allah swt has destined for the them the deepest pits of jahannam. No matter what anyone tells you, I believe the taliban are on haqq (Truth). Why else would the entire kaffir world transpire to eradicate them, the same way they tried to eradicate Allah's Rasool Sallalahu Allaihi Wassalam and his sahaba.
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Zafran
06-18-2010, 02:13 PM
salaam

No offence if the taliban are on haq then what do you say about there "rules" and do you agree with how they implement them - by violence.

peace
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Zafran
06-18-2010, 02:17 PM
I suggest you start listening to the people of Afghanistan and not to their own excuses.
Why - the US and Nato governments dont care about the afghans - they are willing to give afghanistan a corrupt leader called Karzai - last time he rigged an election.
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LauraS
06-18-2010, 03:38 PM
Originally Posted by Muslimeen
I am sure you have heard or read these allegations all in the western media. Don't believe everything you read. The taliban ruled according to sharia law, which is much more humane than any other law. You should read or listen to Yvonne Ridley's "From Captive to Convert".
They weren't from western media they were from the autobiography of an Afghan woman. The taliban's version of Sharia is anything but humane, publicly chopping off people's limbs and giving them to children to display? Beating peopple in the streets for minor offences or basically nothing?
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Asiyah3
06-18-2010, 05:04 PM
Peace LauraS,

I can likewise find you autographies of evidently oppressed Western women. Similarly, I can find you autographies and documents where Latin American women (and same goes for other places) cry and are treated as rubbish. And my source is going to be alot more reliable than some feminist's accusations and anxiety that she throws on the Taliban. The things you mentioned are indeed brutal and barbaric, and which all of us strongly condemn and oppose. However, I am open to see clear proof that the Afghan Talibans do all those in the lady's list.
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Supreme
06-18-2010, 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by **muslimah**
Peace LauraS,

I can likewise find you autographies of evidently oppressed Western women. Similarly, I can find you autographies and documents where Latin American women (and same goes for other places) cry and are treated as rubbish. And my source is going to be alot more reliable than some feminist's accusations and anxiety that she throws on the Taliban. The things you mentioned are indeed brutal and barbaric, and which all of us strongly condemn and oppose. However, I am open to see clear proof that the Afghan Talibans do all those in the lady's list.
I find this argument silly at best. So what if every Western woman was oppressed? How is that a justification for the Taliban doing what they did to women? Two wrongs don't make a right; if you see oppression of women in another part of the world, is it right to then oppress your women and, in defense, say other women are being oppressed?
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Asiyah3
06-18-2010, 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
I find this argument silly at best. So what if every Western woman was oppressed? How is that a justification for the Taliban doing what they did to women? Two wrongs don't make a right; if you see oppression of women in another part of the world, is it right to then oppress your women and, in defense, say other women are being oppressed?
Peace Supreme,
You misunderstood me greatly. Please re-read my post and don't put words in my mouth:

Originally Posted by **muslimah**
The things you mentioned are indeed brutal and barbaric, and which all of us strongly condemn and oppose.
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Tyrion
06-18-2010, 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by **muslimah**
Peace LauraS,

I can likewise find you autographies of evidently oppressed Western women. Similarly, I can find you autographies and documents where Latin American women (and same goes for other places) cry and are treated as rubbish. And my source is going to be alot more reliable than some feminist's accusations and anxiety that she throws on the Taliban. The things you mentioned are indeed brutal and barbaric, and which all of us strongly condemn and oppose. However, I am open to see clear proof that the Afghan Talibans do all those in the lady's list.
Are the reports of the Afghan people not clear enough?


I just don't understand the logic here... We've got people who have never met or lived with the Taliban trying to defend them, all while rejecting the opinions of those who have actually dealt with them...
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Asiyah3
06-18-2010, 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrion
Are the reports of the Afghan people not clear enough?


I just don't understand the logic here... We've got people who have never met or lived with the Taliban trying to defend them, all while rejecting the opinions of those who have actually dealt with them...
Exactly! And apparently you are one of them. =)
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LauraS
06-18-2010, 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by **muslimah**
Peace LauraS,

I can likewise find you autographies of evidently oppressed Western women. Similarly, I can find you autographies and documents where Latin American women (and same goes for other places) cry and are treated as rubbish. And my source is going to be alot more reliable than some feminist's accusations and anxiety that she throws on the Taliban. The things you mentioned are indeed brutal and barbaric, and which all of us strongly condemn and oppose. However, I am open to see clear proof that the Afghan Talibans do all those in the lady's list.
There may be women who are treated badly in the west, but this thread is about the taliban, and in most western countries there are not laws oppressing women. Here is a photo of a child holding severed limbs: http://www.rawa.org/handcut3.htm Here's a public hanging: http://www.rawa.org/2hang.htm Here are pictures taen just after a massacre carried out by the taliban: http://www.rawa.org/yakw-hrw.htm (warning there's some horrible ones there)

Also about the board member who posted on the other thread about the taliban who said his friends and family are from Afghanistan and speak of the barbarity of the taliban? Why just because a woman writes about how the women of Afghanistan have been oppressed she must just be a feminist? Perhaps you should look her book up, it's "Zoya's Story", it also tells the story of many other men and women oppressed in Afghanistan, many of the stories such as the taliban's absurd dislike and ban of television and the film Titanic I have read elsewhere.
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Supreme
06-18-2010, 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by **muslimah**
Peace Supreme,
You misunderstood me greatly. Please re-read my post and don't put words in my mouth:
Oh. In that case, I apologise for the misunderstanding.

Are the reports of the Afghan people not clear enough?


I just don't understand the logic here... We've got people who have never met or lived with the Taliban trying to defend them, all while rejecting the opinions of those who have actually dealt with them...
Apparantly the words of Afghans who have escaped the Taliban aren't enough. Adil previously said that there are some 'liberal' Afghans who dislike the Taliban. Hey, if being opposed to unjust killings, the treatment of women like dirt and brutality makes one a liberal Afghan/Muslim, so be it.
Reply

Asiyah3
06-18-2010, 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
There may be women who are treated badly in the west, but this thread is about the taliban, and in most western countries there are not laws oppressing women. Here is a photo of a child holding severed limbs: http://www.rawa.org/handcut3.htm Here's a public hanging: http://www.rawa.org/2hang.htm Here are pictures taen just after a massacre carried out by the taliban: http://www.rawa.org/yakw-hrw.htm (warning there's some horrible ones there)

Also about the board member who posted on the other thread about the taliban who said his friends and family are from Afghanistan and speak of the barbarity of the taliban? Why just because a woman writes about how the women of Afghanistan have been oppressed she must just be a feminist? Perhaps you should look her book up, it's "Zoya's Story", it also tells the story of many other men and women oppressed in Afghanistan, many of the stories such as the taliban's absurd dislike and ban of television and the film Titanic I have read elsewhere.
Peace LauraS,

You want me to show you the post of a western woman on the other thread on women's abuse as sexual objects in the West? Trust me, I can think of much worse sickening stories.

I can likewise bring you videos from p*** stars and strippers to models and business women that show the utterly brutal treatment these women get. As for those pics, I am well-aware how 'anti-Taliban' that website is. Anyhow, you're absolutely right this thread is about the Taliban therefore I am still open for clear proof of that the Afghan Taliban commit all those in the lady's list.

As for banning television/movies I can find you numerous countries including western that too ban or have banned certain movies or or books. Are you in a position to judge how a country / nation should pose their laws on television or other electricity and which movies/books they should allow ? I doubt or will you next start judging what movies and series TV channels aren't allowed to ban.. Now let's not derail our discussion from women's treatment to less significant matters.
Reply

LauraS
06-18-2010, 10:54 PM
Originally Posted by **muslimah**
Peace LauraS,

You want me to show you the post of a western woman on the other thread on women's abuse as sexual objects in the West? Trust me, I can think of much worse sickening stories.

I can likewise bring you videos from p*** stars and strippers to models and business women that show the utterly brutal treatment these women get. As for those pics, I am well-aware how 'anti-Taliban' that website is. Anyhow, you're absolutely right this thread is about the Taliban therefore I am still open for clear proof of that the Afghan Taliban commit all those in the lady's list.

As for banning television/movies I can find you numerous countries including western that too ban or have banned certain movies or or books. Are you in a position to judge how a country / nation should pose their laws on television or other electricity and which movies/books they should allow ? I doubt or will you next start judging what movies and series TV channels aren't allowed to ban.. Now let's not derail our discussion from women's treatment to less significant matters.
I don't understand, what would you consider proof of the taliban's brutality then if pictures, videos or even the word of the member Tyrion, who has friends and family from Afghanistan, isn't enough? That amputation of that man's limbs took place in Kabul's football stadium, I'm sure you could find eye witness accounts, you only have to see the crowds of people around the boy to know it was a big event. On that site there is also a picture of a woman being executed in the stadium. Are you suggesting these things were done without the knowledge of the taliban? I doubt it, they are the ones that sanction these events. There are also accounts of people who have survived massacres carried out by the taliban. I have read similar stories about taliban behaviour from different sources and they're not western, so why shouldn't they be believed?

I mention television because I'm not just talking about women's rights but their petty rules in general, although women's rights tends to be the main topic. Yes other countries might ban certain programmes or films but they don't tend to ban TV full stop and beat people who do have a set. They have no right to control people's lives in such a way. Again, this is something that was law so isn't exactly just a one off event that was made up by people who are anti-taliban.

I have to mention Tyrion again, why is everybody ignoring his posts? His word should be more important than anyone if his family are from Afghanistan! Although it seems anyone speaking against the taliban who are from Afghanistan are just dismissed as feminists or liberals.
Reply

aadil77
06-18-2010, 11:04 PM
I've requested a brother who has personally met the taliban to post on here InshAllah
Reply

Asiyah3
06-19-2010, 12:16 AM
Originally Posted by LauraS
I don't understand, what would you consider proof of the taliban's brutality then if pictures, videos or even the word of the member Tyrion, who has friends and family from Afghanistan, isn't enough? That amputation of that man's limbs took place in Kabul's football stadium, I'm sure you could find eye witness accounts, you only have to see the crowds of people around the boy to know it was a big event. On that site there is also a picture of a woman being executed in the stadium. Are you suggesting these things were done without the knowledge of the taliban? I doubt it, they are the ones that sanction these events. There are also accounts of people who have survived massacres carried out by the taliban. I have read similar stories about taliban behaviour from different sources and they're not western, so why shouldn't they be believed?
Peace,

You do realize that your "remarks" can be applied to any group. Palestinians can use it against Israelis, anti-Islamists can use it again Muslims and the same applies to any contra-groups... Simply replace the word Taliban. =) Palestinians have pictures and videos of Israelis hurting children, anti-Islamists have pictures and videos of Muslims crying and each group has quite impressive arguments. Now you tell me why these shouldn't be believed?

I mention television because I'm not just talking about women's rights but their petty rules in general, although women's rights tends to be the main topic. Yes other countries might ban certain programmes or films but they don't tend to ban TV full stop and beat people who do have a set. They have no right to control people's lives in such a way. Again, this is something that was law so isn't exactly just a one off event that was made up by people who are anti-taliban.
Even though I don't know if that rule is true, I didn't and won't deny and refute it. That is why I said that many other countries too ban certain movies, books etc. I agree with you that they don't have a right to control people's life in such a way. However, we're not in the position to judge which electricity can and can't a country ban? This goes to social philosophy, which I prefer not to delve into unless you insist on writing me an essay :p..

I have to mention Tyrion again, why is everybody ignoring his posts? His word should be more important than anyone if his family are from Afghanistan! Although it seems anyone speaking against the taliban who are from Afghanistan are just dismissed as feminists or liberals.
Not at all. I'll start a discussion with him privately bi 'ithnil-Laah (By Allah's leave).
Reply

Tyrion
06-19-2010, 10:18 PM
Originally Posted by **muslimah**

Not at all. I'll start a discussion with him privately bi 'ithnil-Laah (By Allah's leave).
Salaam Muslimah,

I received your pm, but apparently I can't send a reply because I haven't yet met the 50 post requirement to become a full member... But what I was going to say was basically a reiteration of what I've said already in the posts, and I mentioned that I would prefer to keep the discussion within the thread so that more people could participate. I do appreciate your message however, and I'm sorry I couldn't respond to it.

Peace. =)
Reply

Asiyah3
06-19-2010, 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrion
Salaam Muslimah,

I received your pm, but apparently I can't send a reply because I haven't yet met the 50 post requirement to become a full member... But what I was going to say was basically a reiteration of what I've said already in the posts, and I mentioned that I would prefer to keep the discussion within the thread so that more people could participate. I do appreciate your message however, and I'm sorry I couldn't respond to it.

Peace. =)
Apparently you aren't answering my very simple questions.

Read the message again:
"I assume you know why I messaged you. Anyhow, are you from Afghanistan? What are your opinions on the Taliban? If you'd like to tell me all you think I should know about your country insha'Allah."
Reply

Tyrion
06-19-2010, 10:27 PM
Originally Posted by **muslimah**
Apparently you aren't answering my very simple questions.

Read the message again:
"I assume you know why I messaged you. Anyhow, are you from Afghanistan? What are your opinions on the Taliban? If you'd like to tell me all you think I should know about your country insha'Allah."
Oh, I assumed the reason you sent me a message was because you wanted to keep the discussion private. In that case, I'll just post my reply:

"Salaam Muslimah,

I am Afghan American, and my family was born and raised in Afghanistan. My opinions on the Taliban are based on their first hand accounts, and I pretty much summed things up within the thread. Basically, from what I've been told, the Taliban claim to do whatever they do in the name of Islam, but then murder and oppress. I don't know what their ideals are, or if every single one of them is the same, however the Taliban in Afghanistan have caused much more trouble than good from what I've been told. They execute people for small crimes, and one story in particular involved a young girl being murdered for something incredibly petty, like being out of the house or something of that nature. I'm fuzzy on some of the details, but that's the gist of it. The vast majority of Afghans who have left the country to come to America feel the same way about the Taliban, and it really seems like they aren't who they say they are.

On a side note, I would prefer if we could keep the discussion within the threat, so that more people could participate. I do appreciate your message though. =) "




Again, I basically ended up repeating what I've said before in the thread, because I feel like those questions have already been answered...
Reply

Asiyah3
06-19-2010, 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrion
Oh, I assumed the reason you sent me a message was because you wanted to keep the discussion private. In that case, I'll just post my reply:

"Salaam Muslimah,

I am Afghan American, and my family was born and raised in Afghanistan. My opinions on the Taliban are based on their first hand accounts, and I pretty much summed things up within the thread. Basically, from what I've been told, the Taliban claim to do whatever they do in the name of Islam, but then murder and oppress. I don't know what their ideals are, or if every single one of them is the same, however the Taliban in Afghanistan have caused much more trouble than good from what I've been told. They execute people for small crimes, and one story in particular involved a young girl being murdered for something incredibly petty, like being out of the house or something of that nature. I'm fuzzy on some of the details, but that's the gist of it. The vast majority of Afghans who have left the country to come to America feel the same way about the Taliban, and it really seems like they aren't who they say they are.

On a side note, I would prefer if we could keep the discussion within the threat, so that more people could participate. I do appreciate your message though. =) "




Again, I basically ended up repeating what I've said before in the thread, because I feel like those questions have already been answered...
Interesting. =) And by interesting I certainly don't mean that I digest what you say.

Since you told me about your country, I feel like I should tell you a bit about my country too. However, I'll rather pm it. I think you can respond here as the conversation seems to have quite gone down anyway. If the thread-starter doesn't mind of course.
Reply

nousername
06-20-2010, 05:18 AM
Originally Posted by aadil77
no this isn't what islam says, don't you think the taliban had daughters, sisters, mothers who they would want an education for?

they said they temporarly stopped women until they could sort out the issue of freemixing - AllahuAlim, but I have faith they will sort this out next time they get in power
but they were in power from around 1996 to 2001. isn't that enough time to sort out the freemixing and give the girls an education they so rightfully deserve??
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Lynx
06-20-2010, 06:07 AM
Originally Posted by nousername
but they were in power from around 1996 to 2001. isn't that enough time to sort out the freemixing and give the girls an education they so rightfully deserve??
those selfish underground schools that were popping up should have provided help to the very competent Taliban.
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LauraS
06-20-2010, 10:37 AM
ignore and look above lol
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LauraS
06-20-2010, 10:38 AM
Originally Posted by Tyrion
Oh, I assumed the reason you sent me a message was because you wanted to keep the discussion private. In that case, I'll just post my reply:

"Salaam Muslimah,

I am Afghan American, and my family was born and raised in Afghanistan. My opinions on the Taliban are based on their first hand accounts, and I pretty much summed things up within the thread. Basically, from what I've been told, the Taliban claim to do whatever they do in the name of Islam, but then murder and oppress. I don't know what their ideals are, or if every single one of them is the same, however the Taliban in Afghanistan have caused much more trouble than good from what I've been told. They execute people for small crimes, and one story in particular involved a young girl being murdered for something incredibly petty, like being out of the house or something of that nature. I'm fuzzy on some of the details, but that's the gist of it. The vast majority of Afghans who have left the country to come to America feel the same way about the Taliban, and it really seems like they aren't who they say they are.

On a side note, I would prefer if we could keep the discussion within the threat, so that more people could participate. I do appreciate your message though. =) "

Again, I basically ended up repeating what I've said before in the thread, because I feel like those questions have already been answered...
Thank you for sharing Tyrion. :)




Originally Posted by **muslimah**
Peace,

You do realize that your "remarks" can be applied to any group. Palestinians can use it against Israelis, anti-Islamists can use it again Muslims and the same applies to any contra-groups... Simply replace the word Taliban. =) Palestinians have pictures and videos of Israelis hurting children, anti-Islamists have pictures and videos of Muslims crying and each group has quite impressive arguments. Now you tell me why these shouldn't be believed?


Even though I don't know if that rule is true, I didn't and won't deny and refute it. That is why I said that many other countries too ban certain movies, books etc. I agree with you that they don't have a right to control people's life in such a way. However, we're not in the position to judge which electricity can and can't a country ban? This goes to social philosophy, which I prefer not to delve into unless you insist on writing me an essay :p..


Not at all. I'll start a discussion with him privately bi 'ithnil-Laah (By Allah's leave).
The remarks can be applied to many groups, but again, this thread is about the taliban in Afghanistan. I think we can judge people who feel they have the right to stop others watching television. It's tyranny and part of a wider issue of control, not just about electricity, if you fancied writing an essay I would read it :D.
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Asiyah3
06-20-2010, 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
The remarks can be applied to many groups, but again, this thread is about the taliban in Afghanistan.
Indeed, which is why your pictures are irrelevant..

I think we can judge people who feel they have the right to stop others watching television.
What you think is inconsequential.

It's tyranny and part of a wider issue of control, not just about electricity, if you fancied writing an essay I would read it :D.
I'm afraid your reading comprehension will screw you over.

Originally Posted by **muslimah**
This goes to social philosophy, which I prefer not to delve into unless you insist on writing me an essay :p..
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CosmicPathos
06-20-2010, 02:57 PM
Tyrion has provided no evidence but just make-believe mythological statements uttered by Afghani refs who immigrated to the West especially Canada by convincing the Canadian government via exagerrating the "tyranny" of Talibs. These people are now living off Western government's money and benefits for the last few years. I've seen 5 Afghani refugee families eating off the Canadian government because the men in the families do not want to work. Free money in a free world eh. You want me to believe what these kind of people have to say who are not hesitant to lie to the government and to eat haraam?


Regardless, whatever Tyrion has said, I could very well get the same information from Fox News. No difference.

And then lauraS gets all lollipopped and happy jolly like a small blonde girl with two ponytails as if the mysteries of Charlie's chocolate factory have been unveiled to her and to her alone.
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Asiyah3
06-20-2010, 03:03 PM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
Tyrion has provided no evidence but just make-believe mythological statements uttered by Afghani refs who immigrated to the West especially Canada by convincing the Canadian government via exagerrating the "tyranny" of Talibs. These people are now living off Western government's money and benefits for the last few years. I've seen 5 Afghani refugee families eating off the Canadian government because the men in the families do not want to work. Free money in a free world eh. You want me to believe what these kind of people have to say who are not hesitant to lie to the government?


Regardless, whatever Tyrion has said, I could very well hear get the same information from Fox News. No difference.
Indeed, I could as well come here and tell as an Iraqi how the Americans rape women and abuse children in Iraq. =)

In addition, funnily enough I'm haven't grown up in the land of the invaders.
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CosmicPathos
06-20-2010, 03:06 PM
Originally Posted by **muslimah**
Indeed, I could as well come here and tell as an Iraqi how the Americans rape women and abuse children in Iraq. =)
Well, couple of soldiers from the US army have been put on trial. So I would not need to listen to your story to realize that US soldiers did rape ppl in Iraq. There are as many stories as there are mouths. It's all about evidence.

I'd never blindly believe what a human has to tell me except from Prophet. I wish I could trust members from my species but I'd trust a dog (a faithful animal) more than a human being. I am talking about trust, not about inherent value of human life. So before anyone even tries to call me "shallow," read carefully what I wrote.
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Asiyah3
06-20-2010, 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
Well, couple of soldiers from the US army have been put on trial. So I would not need to listen to your story to realize that US soldiers did rape ppl in Iraq. There are as many stories as there are mouths.

I'd never blindly believe what a human has to tell me.
I've also heard such. I also meant that I could as well tell my and my family's personal experience and their troops' atrocities. I suppose the difference would be that I'm not an in America grown up Iraqi writer and since I really live in Iraq (though at the moment I live in Finland) and meet local people daily, I wouldn't just represent the very minority that support our puppet unjust government, whom thanks to hundreds die and more than thousands God knows how many live on streets unfortunately, for their own profit.
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CosmicPathos
06-20-2010, 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by **muslimah**
I've also heard such. I also meant that I could as well tell my and my family's personal experience and their troops' atrocities. I suppose the difference would be that I'm not an in America grown up Iraqi writer and since I really live in Iraq (though at the moment I live in Finland) and meet local people daily, I wouldn't just represent the very minority that support our puppet unjust government, whom thanks to hundreds die and more than thousands God knows how many live on streets unfortunately, for their own profit.
:( precisely the reason that human species is not to be trusted except God's messengers.
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Asiyah3
06-20-2010, 03:34 PM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
:( precisely the reason that human species is not to be trusted except God's messengers.
Heh, but no worries to mrs. Laura, =) who'd be more than happy to listen to one or two comfortably abroad dwellers, who have no problem representing the majority who's young daughters go to school... only to find dead bodies lying in the floor in the middle of the paces they take.
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Muslimeen
06-21-2010, 07:59 AM
I must take this opportunity to thank all brothers and sisters in Islam to defend their muslim bretheren in Afghanistan. Since the beginning of time the plot of the Kuffar was to divide and rule, for as long as we are united they stand no dog chance of defeating us. Our disunity is their greatest weapon against us. As for the all the shock horror stories being depicted about the taliban, I say it's all hogwash...
The only people who did not want to live under taliban rule where those who followed their whims and fancies. So what if they banned television, music or pornography. It was their country, they fought for it with their blood and are doing it again. Nobody forces the united states to ban pornography, television or prostitution. It is their country they are free to as they please, so why must the muslim world be made to adhere to the moral standards and code of conduct of the west. In muslim lands we will govern by the law of Allah, even if the west detests it. It is the obligation of a muslim leadership to preserve the morality of it's people. The taliban were not, are not and will never be a brute nation as described by the western media and people who follow their whims and desires. Allah never helps the oppressor, where as the taliban have the help of allah on their side, why else would the so called "Super Power" of our time struggle to defeat them? Nine years on and they are taking a hiding they can't believe. I am just waiting to see their excuse when they finally give up and decide to leave Afghanistan. It will probably be something like, The taliban have reformed, or were never the enemy, It was Al-Qaida whom we were after now they have all been terminated etc. etc.....
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aadil77
06-21-2010, 08:21 AM
Originally Posted by Muslimeen
I am just waiting to see their excuse when they finally give up and decide to leave Afghanistan. It will probably be something like, The taliban have reformed, or were never the enemy, It was Al-Qaida whom we were after now they have all been terminated etc. etc.....
exactly, I bet they'll make friends with the taliban again and blame it all on the al-qaeda that never existed

everytime they get forced out of a certain area they say it was part of 'strategy'
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Lynx
06-21-2010, 08:52 AM
The only people who did not want to live under taliban rule where those who followed their whims and fancies. So what if they banned television, music or pornography. It was their country, they fought for it with their blood and are doing it again. Nobody forces the united states to ban pornography, television or prostitution. It is their country they are free to as they please,
Some inconsistency there. o.o
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LauraS
06-21-2010, 11:30 AM
Originally Posted by **muslimah**
Indeed, which is why your pictures are irrelevant..


What you think is inconsequential.


I'm afraid your reading comprehension will screw you over.
Muslimah, I meant no offence, I know we disagree but I didn't want bad feeling and was just trying to lighten the tone of the post.

I've never said American soldiers are innocent of crimes, it's obvious they're not, I've also read stories about rape. As I've read stories about rape by the taliban too, why are you willing to believe the American soldiers will do these things, but no evidence is enough to say the taliban are guilty of atrocities. This is what it seems like: It's like everyone is scraping for excuses not to believe the taliban are guilty of crimes. The word of Tyrion's family isn't good enough because, although raised in Afghanistan they moved to the west, so they have adopted western ideas and their word should just be dismissed basically according to mad scientist. Then you have the people of RAWA who haven't moved to the west, some of the members still live in Afghanistan and if you read Zoya's book they don't even support the invasion or particularly like the western lifestyle, but again their word isn't good enough and we must dismiss them as feminists (even though the chairty is supported by men) and liberals. Pictures of women being beaten in the sreets, the amputation of limbs at sports stadiums and public hangings also isn't evidence enough. You can't expect the people in the photos to be wearing signs saying "taliban, look at what we are doing", there are other charities set up by the people of Afghanistan that tell the same stories. Of course if someone came on and said they loved the taliban it would accepted straight away as the truth and their background wouldn't be questioned at all. So although you say you are open to proof that the taliban are as bad as is said, you'd never bring yourself to believe it.

Muslimeen- Do you listen to music and watch television? Wouldn't you be just a bit annoyed if someone decided you suddenly didn't have the right to do so?

Yes the taliban fought for the country, by dropping bombs and killing hundreds so they could take control, exactly what the west are being criticised for now....
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aadil77
06-21-2010, 11:49 AM
Although the taliban have had their faults, we will not believe blatant lies about them for many reasons, here are a few:

1. They are muslims, muslims have alot more honour and morals than non-muslims, you said the taliban are guilty of rape - my mind cannot associate that to muslims fighting for islamic law, that accusation is better suited to non-muslim troops who are filled with lust - the figures of how many female troops act as w hores and get pregnant prove it

2. We are told in the Quran:

O you who believe! If a Faasiq (liar — evil person) comes to you with any news, verify it, lest you should harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful for what you have done [Surat Al-Ĥujurāt {49:6}]

3. Media from countries at war in afghanistan is bound to be biased towards the 'enemy', they cannot move away public support for their wars so they have to justify them by reporting the most unreliable false claims. An example of that is the recent US/NATO bombing of a wedding which was then blamed on the taliban

4. RAWA is a group that wants 'democracy' they are bound to be against islamic punishments, even against male criminals. I've noticed they do not report why certain punishments are carried out, an example is the public execution of a woman in a football stadium. They did not say that the woman had admitted to killing her husband. So I'd be wary of such groups
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
06-21-2010, 12:08 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
Although the taliban have had their faults, we will not believe blatant lies about them for many reasons, here are a few:

1. They are muslims, muslims have alot more honour and morals than non-muslims, you said the taliban are guilty of rape - my mind cannot associate that to muslims fighting for islamic law, that accusation is better suited to non-muslim troops who are filled with lust - the figures of how many female troops act as w hores and get pregnant prove it

2. We are told in the Quran:

O you who believe! If a Faasiq (liar — evil person) comes to you with any news, verify it, lest you should harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful for what you have done [Surat Al-Ĥujurāt {49:6}]

3. Media from countries at war in afghanistan is bound to be biased towards the 'enemy', they cannot move away public support for their wars so they have to justify them by reporting the most unreliable false claims. An example of that is the recent US/NATO bombing of a wedding which was then blamed on the taliban

4. RAWA is a group that wants 'democracy' they are bound to be against islamic punishments, even against male criminals. I've noticed they do not report why certain punishments are carried out, an example is the public execution of a woman in a football stadium. They did not say that the woman had admitted to killing her husband. So I'd be wary of such groups
as-salam alaykum

where is the borther you said he was coming to this forum to discuss the taliban?

Best regards

sweet106
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Rhubarb Tart
06-21-2010, 12:12 PM
It is not right to dismiss what another Muslim brother (Tyrion) has told you regardless if he is living in the west or not. You are living in the west, does that mean we should dismiss everything you said. I’m not saying Taliban is evil or anything as such; just take all sides to account that is all.
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aadil77
06-21-2010, 12:12 PM
Originally Posted by sweet106
as-salam alaykum

where is the borther you said he was coming to this forum to discuss the taliban?

Best regards

sweet106
he's been on this forum for ages, I've pm'ed him, I think he's a bit worried about how 'safe' it is
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Rhubarb Tart
06-21-2010, 12:18 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
he's been on this forum for ages, I've pm'ed him, I think he's a bit worried about how 'safe' it is
oh okay. I understand. no worries he can take his time. Jazaakalahu khayr for PM -ing him. Much appreciated
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BoredAgnostic
06-21-2010, 01:01 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
he's been on this forum for ages, I've pm'ed him, I think he's a bit worried about how 'safe' it is
Why should he be concerned about his safety, particularly if he is defending the Taliban (I'm assuming?)
Just curious..

In general, I understand this is a discussion thread, but things types of threads always end up in a bitter back and forth with tensions running really high.

I think it would be much better to see a debate between those that have lived and interacted with them, otherwise, everyone is going to hold on stubbornly to their convictions and whether or not they support them. I in no way shape or form support the Taliban (and I couldn't give two, if someone thinks I'm brainwashed by western propaganda), but if someone does-- *Shrugs* their choice.
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Supreme
06-21-2010, 01:08 PM
1. They are muslims, muslims have alot more honour and morals than non-muslims, you said the taliban are guilty of rape - my mind cannot associate that to muslims fighting for islamic law, that accusation is better suited to non-muslim troops who are filled with lust - the figures of how many female troops act as w hores and get pregnant prove it
I'm sorry, but that is nonsense. Pure garbage. Muslims do not have any more morals or honour than non-Muslims. They worship another God from non-Muslims, but as far as differences go, there's no real divisiion in terms of morals or 'honour'. And the rape bit if laughable. If you can't imagine a bunch of young men starved of sex and female attention for many years raping women, then we are clearly not talking about straight, human males. There's bound to be a few instances of rape within the Taliban ranks, regardless of what the law they're supposedly fighting for says- it's hardly the first unIslamic activity the Taliban have engaged in, and it's not the first time people in a position of power have broken their own rules, either.
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aadil77
06-21-2010, 01:10 PM
Originally Posted by BoredAgnostic
Why should he be concerned about his safety, particularly if he is defending the Taliban (I'm assuming?)
Just curious..

In general, I understand this is a discussion thread, but things types of threads always end up in a bitter back and forth with tensions running really high.

I think it would be much better to see a debate between those that have lived and interacted with them, otherwise, everyone is going to hold on stubbornly to their convictions and whether or not they support them. I in no way shape or form support the Taliban (and I couldn't give two, if someone thinks I'm brainwashed by western propaganda), but if someone does-- *Shrugs* their choice.
yh the brother lives in pakistan and has already had encounters with security agencies for supporting them (afghan taliban)

and yh thats a good idea
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aadil77
06-21-2010, 01:23 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
I'm sorry, but that is nonsense. Pure garbage. Muslims do not have any more morals or honour than non-Muslims. They worship another God from non-Muslims, but as far as differences go, there's no real divisiion in terms of morals or 'honour'
Well you look at the societies of the great 'West' and compare them to even the worst most unislamic muslims countries - they are still far better

And the rape bit if laughable. If you can't imagine a bunch of young men starved of sex and female attention for many years raping women, then we are clearly not talking about straight, human males. There's bound to be a few instances of rape within the Taliban ranks, regardless of what the law they're supposedly fighting for says- it's hardly the first unIslamic activity the Taliban have engaged in, and it's not the first time people in a position of power have broken their own rules, either
LOL you could say that about most muslim males but do we go around raping others. The few instances you talk about would be rare especially in afghanistan as you'd end up like this:



What happened to the US soldiers who raped a young iraqi girl then butchered her and her family? they didn't even get the death penalty according to iraqi law
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Muslimeen
06-21-2010, 01:40 PM
Some people tolerate way too much injustice in the name of human rights. Unfortunately they don't realise that the VICTIMS are humans too. When will the world start fighting for the victims of injustice rather than the perpertrators. Islam puts all of that into perspective. How would the so called human rights activist have to say if it were there wife or daughter that was brutally raped or even gang raped. I say make an example of them for all to see, potential rapist's will think twice before raping anyone.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-21-2010, 01:41 PM
^Subhaan`Allaah . . . . . . . . .
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Asiyah3
06-21-2010, 02:20 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
Muslimah, I meant no offence, I know we disagree but I didn't want bad feeling and was just trying to lighten the tone of the post.
Peace LauraS,
I neither meant offence, and I apologize if I came across that way.

As I've read stories about rape by the taliban too, why are you willing to believe the American soldiers will do these things, but no evidence is enough to say the taliban are guilty of atrocities. This is what it seems like: It's like everyone is scraping for excuses not to believe the taliban are guilty of crimes.The word of Tyrion's family isn't good enough because, although raised in Afghanistan they moved to the west, so they have adopted western ideas and their word should just be dismissed basically according to mad scientist. Then you have the people of RAWA who haven't moved to the west, some of the members still live in Afghanistan and if you read Zoya's book they don't even support the invasion or particularly like the western lifestyle, but again their word isn't good enough and we must dismiss them as feminists (even though the chairty is supported by men) and liberals. Pictures of women being beaten in the sreets, the amputation of limbs at sports stadiums and public hangings also isn't evidence enough. You can't expect the people in the photos to be wearing signs saying "taliban, look at what we are doing", there are other charities set up by the people of Afghanistan that tell the same stories.
Why do you insist on chewing the same gum over and over again? I explained to you comprehensively my reasons which you failed to address and seem to ignore on purpose when someone expresses a valid disagreement. Yet, here you are.

It's like...
Granny: Those poor Xs. Y has done this and that! Look at these pictures! Look at what's written here!
Daughter: No mother, you can't put the blame on Y, because firstly... ... Secondly ... ... As for the pictures... ...
Granny: -

The next day:
Granny: Those poor Xs. Y has done this and that! Look at these pictures. Look at what's written here!

Of course if someone came on and said they loved the taliban it would accepted straight away as the truth and their background wouldn't be questioned at all. So although you say you are open to proof that the taliban are as bad as is said, you'd never bring yourself to believe it.
Speak for yourself only. In case my stance is unclear, I neither support nor seize the opportunity and put the blame on the Taliban whenever an Afghani encounters an injustice merely for the sake of my personal feelings.

Yes the taliban fought for the country, by dropping bombs and killing hundreds so they could take control, exactly what the west are being criticised for now....
Well well, you don't know what your talking about, well at least I don't. Last time I checked those invaders dropped twice the amount of bombs than they did in Iraq. But no worries...at least to some people. :statisfie

May Allah ease all the affairs of my sisters and brothers in Afghanistan, Palestine and Iraq and grant them victory over those invaders. Ameen.
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Supreme
06-21-2010, 02:42 PM
Well you look at the societies of the great 'West' and compare them to even the worst most unislamic muslims countries - they are still far better
Far better- how do you mean? Most Western countries have abolished the death penalty, provided free health care for all residents, do not discriminate on the grounds of religion and have established human rights for their citizens- in terms of morality, I think those are all very good ethical achievements, primarily confined to the West.

LOL you could say that about most muslim males but do we go around raping others. The few instances you talk about would be rare especially in afghanistan as you'd end up like this:
What a poor argument- has the law ever stopped evil people doing evil deeds? Has punishment ever made criminals think twice? Of course not, or else history would look very different.

What happened to the US soldiers who raped a young iraqi girl then butchered her and her family? they didn't even get the death penalty according to iraqi law
That was an abhorrent crime. It actually makes one physcially sick when you think too much about it.
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nousername
06-21-2010, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by Lynx
those selfish underground schools that were popping up should have provided help to the very competent Taliban.
that didn't answer the question. they were in power from 1996 to 2001, didn't that give them enough time to sort out the freemixing issue to give girls their right- an education? or no one can answer, just make up something to praise the Taliban ?
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aadil77
06-21-2010, 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
Far better- how do you mean? Most Western countries have abolished the death penalty, provided free health care for all residents, do not discriminate on the grounds of religion and have established human rights for their citizens- in terms of morality, I think those are all very good ethical achievements, primarily confined to the West.

Getting rid of the death penalty is not an achievement the rest of the acheivements should be available in muslim countries. But many things are immoral in western countries and this continues to corrupt society. Just one example; look how children are being affected by sexualisation of everything now a days, its disgusting.


What a poor argument- has the law ever stopped evil people doing evil deeds? Has punishment ever made criminals think twice? Of course not, or else history would look very different.

Ofcourse punishments make criminals think twice, would you not think twice about raping someone if you knew you would be instantly executed? Look how well the justice system in saudi works, crime rates are virtually nil compared to the UK

That was an abhorrent crime. It actually makes one physcially sick when you think too much about it.

Yet the perpetrators did not recieve justice, their 'punishment' was an insult to the family
...............
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aadil77
06-21-2010, 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by nousername
that didn't answer the question. they were in power from 1996 to 2001, didn't that give them enough time to sort out the freemixing issue to give girls their right- an education? or no one can answer, just make up something to praise the Taliban ?
time? they didn't have the money so what schools do you expect them to build? they had people dieing everyday because of malnutrition where do you expect them to spend most of their money on. If you listen to this interview with the taliban envoy - he literally pleads for aid and support, the UN built one seperate womens college/school and that continued to run under taliban rule

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...re-9-11-a.html
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Supreme
06-21-2010, 03:49 PM
Getting rid of the death penalty is not an achievement the rest of the acheivements should be available in muslim countries. But many things are immoral in western countries and this continues to corrupt society. Just one example; look how children are being affected by sexualisation of everything now a days, its disgusting.
There are lots of immoral things in every culture, and what is considered immoral changes with people from different backgrounds. I agree that the sexualization (although minor, still very concerning) is immoral, but what about immoral things in other countries, that are equally disgraceful?
Ofcourse punishments make criminals think twice, would you not think twice about raping someone if you knew you would be instantly executed? Look how well the justice system in saudi works, crime rates are virtually nil compared to the UK

The factors with regard to crime rates are indeed fascinating, but you're a fool if you think it's as simple as 'low crime rates are down to recieving a death sentence'. Lower crime rates can be related to less reported crimes, decreased ability to commit a crime and motivation for a crime. If crime rates were solved magically by the death sentence, it would be present in every country without exception. You see, the death penalty today just seems like an outdated, tried and tested, cookie cutter approach to solving crime, and we're starting to discover there's far more depth to crime than a possible punishment.
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Lynx
06-22-2010, 04:33 AM
Originally Posted by nousername
that didn't answer the question. they were in power from 1996 to 2001, didn't that give them enough time to sort out the freemixing issue to give girls their right- an education? or no one can answer, just make up something to praise the Taliban ?
i was clearly being sarcastic.

there were underground schools, many women teachers, and willing female students. the taliban either had no intention of sending women to school or didn't care enough to bother or had no idea how to get this institution to work.
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LauraS
06-22-2010, 10:05 AM
Originally Posted by aadil77
Although the taliban have had their faults, we will not believe blatant lies about them for many reasons, here are a few:

1. They are muslims, muslims have alot more honour and morals than non-muslims, you said the taliban are guilty of rape - my mind cannot associate that to muslims fighting for islamic law, that accusation is better suited to non-muslim troops who are filled with lust - the figures of how many female troops act as w hores and get pregnant prove it

2. We are told in the Quran:

O you who believe! If a Faasiq (liar — evil person) comes to you with any news, verify it, lest you should harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful for what you have done [Surat Al-Ĥujurāt {49:6}]

3. Media from countries at war in afghanistan is bound to be biased towards the 'enemy', they cannot move away public support for their wars so they have to justify them by reporting the most unreliable false claims. An example of that is the recent US/NATO bombing of a wedding which was then blamed on the taliban

4. RAWA is a group that wants 'democracy' they are bound to be against islamic punishments, even against male criminals. I've noticed they do not report why certain punishments are carried out, an example is the public execution of a woman in a football stadium. They did not say that the woman had admitted to killing her husband. So I'd be wary of such groups
There are numerous stories of rape from the taliban, surely you can't think everyone of them is righteous? The taliban seem to be tyrannical hypocrites.

RAWA did say the woman was accused of murder, but they also pointed out she'd suffered years of abuse from her husband and regardless of the situation I think it's disgusting that a person should be executed in front of thousands of people, including children. You saw the picture of a child holding someone's feet and hands? It's just barbaric to show these sorts of things to children.
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LauraS
06-22-2010, 10:15 AM
Originally Posted by **muslimah**


Well well, you don't know what your talking about, well at least I don't. Last time I checked those invaders dropped twice the amount of bombs than they did in Iraq. But no worries...at least to some people. :statisfie

May Allah ease all the affairs of my sisters and brothers in Afghanistan, Palestine and Iraq and grant them victory over those invaders. Ameen.
If you don't want me to "chew the same gum" over and over then people should first of all stop assuming I don't care that innocent people, are being blown up. The point is the taliban were quite happy to bomb the population themselves (it'd another example of hypocrisy) , you can't defend it just because the the west have dropped a few more. That isn't very well worded but I'm in a rush.
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Ramadhan
06-22-2010, 10:58 AM
Originally Posted by LauraS
If you don't want me to "chew the same gum" over and over then people should first of all stop assuming I don't care that innocent people, are being blown up. The point is the taliban were quite happy to bomb the population themselves (it'd another example of hypocrisy) , you can't defend it just because the the west have dropped a few more. That isn't very well worded but I'm in a rush.
A few more?

This goes to show the wickedness in your heart.

case closed.
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aadil77
06-22-2010, 11:55 AM
Originally Posted by LauraS
If you don't want me to "chew the same gum" over and over then people should first of all stop assuming I don't care that innocent people, are being blown up. The point is the taliban were quite happy to bomb the population themselves (it'd another example of hypocrisy) , you can't defend it just because the the west have dropped a few more. That isn't very well worded but I'm in a rush.
'bomb the population' are you nuts? Why do you think its the taliban who were at war with their own people?

Foreign countries who invade another country do not give a crap for locals, they are not their own people, why would they give a **** about dropping 2000lb bombs on villages and blowing up people who have nothing to do with them?

'dropped a few more' LOL you're having a laugh its only the west that has dropped bombs, since when have the taliban had the capability to drop bombs that are indiscriminate and target everyone?
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Asiyah3
06-22-2010, 12:07 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
If you don't want me to "chew the same gum" over and over then people should first of all stop assuming I don't care that innocent people, are being blown up. The point is the taliban were quite happy to bomb the population themselves (it'd another example of hypocrisy) , you can't defend it just because the the west have dropped a few more. That isn't very well worded but I'm in a rush.
Peace,
I tried to google for air-strikes in Afghanistan, but the ones I found were all committed by Americans. I did find a few couple of bombs (though not air-strikes) probably directed at soldiers by Taliban where in some American or NATO soldiers got killed. And they are have every right to protect themselves and their families and people. However, I couldn't manage to find ones directed at civilians, whereas I had no trouble with Americans' (/NATO) strikes killed people note without searching.

If you have some source/news where the air-strikes made by Taliban are listed, I'll have no problem taking a look.
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Zafran
06-22-2010, 07:21 PM
what LauraS has to accept that yes that taleban maybe the bad guys - but so are Nato - they have no right to be in afgahistan - they have no right to do regime change which is there main goal. - they have no right to airstrike the crap out of afghanis - the drone strikes are shocking - theres no difference with that and terrorism - the US specifically knows that the drone strikes are hated by the Afgahnis and Pakistanis (main poopulations) but they insist that its "effective".
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Supreme
06-22-2010, 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by Zafran
what LauraS has to accept that yes that taleban maybe the bad guys - but so are Nato - they have no right to be in afgahistan - they have no right to do regime change which is there main goal. - they have no right to airstrike the crap out of afghanis - the drone strikes are shocking - theres no difference with that and terrorism - the US specifically knows that the drone strikes are hated by the Afgahnis and Pakistanis (main poopulations) but they insist that its "effective".
I agree that NATO should be doing far more to avoid civilian casualties, and that it is shameful that so many people die needlessly in NATO co-ordinated attacks. But, I've every confidence that if the Taliban possessed the same weapons, they'd be killing the same amount of civilians, and much more besides. They're already killing more civilians then NATO without the fancy military hardware- how awful would it be if they did possess the ability to inflict damage on hundreds of civilians at any one time!
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aadil77
06-22-2010, 07:45 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
They're already killing more civilians then NATO without the fancy military hardware- how awful would it be if they did possess the ability to inflict damage on hundreds of civilians at any one time!
are you sure about that or is this another one of your assumptions?
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Asiyah3
06-22-2010, 07:52 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
They're already killing more civilians then NATO
Do I always have to ask for a source separately?
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Supreme
06-22-2010, 07:59 PM
Actually, my source is related to a source that involves one of the lulziest cases of irony I've ever had the pleasure of witnessing.

My source comes from this earlier post from aadil himself, perhaps the biggest Talifan here, who fantasies about the Taliban being a band of noble knights was marred by this single article he posted:

Originally posted by aadil:
US air strike wiped out Afghan wedding party, inquiry finds (20)Tweet this (2)James Sturcke and agencies guardian.co.uk, Friday 11 July 2008 14.47 BST Article history
An injured Afghan boy is put on a stretcher at a hospital in Jalalabad city, Afghanistan. Photograph: Nesar Ahmad

A US air strike killed 47 civilians, including 39 women and children, as they were travelling to a wedding in Afghanistan, an official inquiry found today. The bride was among the dead.

Another nine people were wounded in Sunday's attack, the head of the Afghan government investigation, Burhanullah Shinwari, said.

Fighter aircraft attacked a group of militants near the village of Kacu in the eastern Nuristan province, but one missile went off course and hit the wedding party, said the provincial police chief spokesman, Ghafor Khan.

The US military initially denied any civilians had been killed.
Lieutenant Rumi Nielson-Green, a spokeswoman for the US-led coalition, told AFP today the military regretted the loss of any civilian life and was investigating the incident.

The US is facing similar charges over strikes two days earlier in another border area of Afghanistan.

The nine-member inquiry team appointed by the Afghan president, Hamid Karzai, to look into the wedding party incident found only civilians had been killed in the attack.

"We found that 47 civilians, mostly women and children, were killed in the air strikes and another nine were wounded," said Shinwari, who is also the deputy speaker of Afghanistan's senate.

"They were all civilians and had no links with the Taliban or al-Qaida."

Around 10 people were missing and believed to be still under rubble, he said. The inquiry team were shown the bloodied clothes of women and children in a visit to the scene.

The Red Cross said 250 people had been killed or wounded in five days of military action and militant attacks in the past week.

The toll included the US-led air strikes and a suicide blast outside the Indian embassy in Kabul on Monday that killed more than 40 people, including two Indian envoys.

The UN said last month that nearly 700 Afghan civilians had lost their lives this year - about two-thirds in militant attacks and about 255 in military operations.

Karzai has pleaded repeatedly for western troops to take care not to harm civilians, and in December wept during a speech lamenting civilian deaths at the hands of foreign forces.
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...aliban-12.html
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Asiyah3
06-22-2010, 08:05 PM
The UN said last month that nearly 700 Afghan civilians had lost their lives this year - about two-thirds in militant attacks and about 255 in military operations.
700 civilians got killed during that month. However, I couldn't find the part where it says that the Taliban killed them?
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Supreme
06-22-2010, 08:37 PM
Originally Posted by **muslimah**
700 civilians got killed during that month. However, I couldn't find the part where it says that the Taliban killed them?
1) It says that year, not that month.
2) It says they were killed by militants ie Taliban.

Reading is a wonderful skill, for those who can master it!
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aadil77
06-22-2010, 09:01 PM
The UN said last month that nearly 700 Afghan civilians had lost their lives this year - about two-thirds in militant attacks and about 255 in military operations.
255 - I'm bound to believe that especially after a single US airstrike can wipe out 150 civilians
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Zafran
06-22-2010, 09:16 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
I agree that NATO should be doing far more to avoid civilian casualties, and that it is shameful that so many people die needlessly in NATO co-ordinated attacks. But, I've every confidence that if the Taliban possessed the same weapons, they'd be killing the same amount of civilians, and much more besides. They're already killing more civilians then NATO without the fancy military hardware- how awful would it be if they did possess the ability to inflict damage on hundreds of civilians at any one time!
you see thats a what "if" - we're talking about now - and the fact is that nato has inflicted a huge mass of violence against the afgahns for the wrong reasons.
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brotherubaid
06-22-2010, 09:43 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
no this isn't what islam says, don't you think the taliban had daughters, sisters, mothers who they would want an education for?

they said they temporarly stopped women until they could sort out the issue of freemixing - AllahuAlim, but I have faith they will sort this out next time they get in power
BRother i do not know what part of pakistan u come from but i am from the northwest the strong holds of taliban n all , bro do u really think that in those areas there is free mixing?? bro not even close!! there are seperate schools for girls and there is notthing wrong with the curriculum , bro taliban are not knowledable of the deen , they are not even qualified , not even their heads , Bro i come from those areas , bro ALL my family is there and i can confirm that ALL their operations and finances come from DRUG TRADE , all our mountains n areas are FULL of heroin n hashish n opium trade , thats where it grows n even goes all the way to the west , and trust me they are heavily involved in it , and also recently the newset trend for tjem to get their funds in Kidnapping , bro i have had family memebrs kidnapped , as soon as they realise some on has money they kidnap their kids n family members and ask ridicolus sums and that money gets used for "Jihad"?? u knmow which jihaad , the type where u plot bombs in markets n in mosques and in public places and in police stations, yes that jihaad , like a great schlar sheikh abdul mohsin al abbad the muhadith of madeenah was asked , if they are mujahids or khawarij , he said they are mujahids, mujahids in the way of shaytaan!! bro there whole ideology n way is corrupted and deviated , they are being used , the enemy are using them for their own purpose , they are being fooled and they are definetly not the hope for the ummah rather the biggest calamity on the ummah , and may Allah save us all.

http://www.islamagainstextremism.com http://www.answering-extremism.com
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aadil77
06-22-2010, 09:51 PM
^as you say bro, remember this thread is about afghan taliban
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LauraS
06-22-2010, 10:36 PM
Originally Posted by Zafran
what LauraS has to accept that yes that taleban maybe the bad guys - but so are Nato - they have no right to be in afgahistan - they have no right to do regime change which is there main goal. - they have no right to airstrike the crap out of afghanis - the drone strikes are shocking - theres no difference with that and terrorism - the US specifically knows that the drone strikes are hated by the Afgahnis and Pakistanis (main poopulations) but they insist that its "effective".
*bangs head* I've said about a hundred times now that I've no real support for the invasion.

Originally Posted by **muslimah**
Peace,
I tried to google for air-strikes in Afghanistan, but the ones I found were all committed by Americans. I did find a few couple of bombs (though not air-strikes) probably directed at soldiers by Taliban where in some American or NATO soldiers got killed. And they are have every right to protect themselves and their families and people. However, I couldn't manage to find ones directed at civilians, whereas I had no trouble with Americans' (/NATO) strikes killed people note without searching.

If you have some source/news where the air-strikes made by Taliban are listed, I'll have no problem taking a look.
The bombings were when the taliban first took control, I'll try and find some sources.

Originally Posted by naidamar
A few more?

This goes to show the wickedness in your heart.

case closed.
Don't be so melodramatic. I was saying that neither side just be defended for dropping bombs on innocent, although as I said in my post it was badly worded. When I've posted numerous posts about the sympathy I feel for Afghanistan, that satement is really quite daft.


That's who we have to think about the people who have just known one group of invaders and tyrants after another for years.
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Asiyah3
06-22-2010, 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
1) It says that year, not that month.
Oops, I misunderstood. I thought it said during the last month.
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Asiyah3
06-22-2010, 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
The bombings were when the taliban first took control, I'll try and find some sources.
Peace,
No need, I'm leaving the forum. My last words, I really hope you'll learn about Islam during your stay here and become closer to Allah. :D I believe that Allah guides those who seek guidance.

It was nice to meet you. :) Finally, I'd like to sum up all my talks on this thread: I know nothing about the Taliban.
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LauraS
06-23-2010, 11:21 AM
Originally Posted by **muslimah**
Peace,
No need, I'm leaving the forum. My last words, I really hope you'll learn about Islam during your stay here and become closer to Allah. :D I believe that Allah guides those who seek guidance.

It was nice to meet you. :) Finally, I'd like to sum up all my talks on this thread: I know nothing about the Taliban.
Oh well, goodbye then lol, nice to meet you too. I do feel I've understood Islam a bit more while I've been but obviously there's much more and I hope to do so. :)
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Supreme
06-23-2010, 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
255 - I'm bound to believe that especially after a single US airstrike can wipe out 150 civilians
I think when you start making sarcastic comments as to the validity of the facts in the articles you yourself posted, is when you realise just how bad things are for your arguments.
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