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View Full Version : Do you want democracy in muslim countries or shariah law?



aadil77
06-14-2010, 01:32 PM
This poll is for muslims only. By democracy I mean western democracy

This thread is following up from a report by RAND that shows america's stance on islam, how they want to force democracy upon every muslim country and their own brand of islam. RAND have supposedly 'fixed' islam and created their own version that they want to force on all muslims. The report is available here http://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_r...716/MR1716.pdf

Democracy is clear cut haraam (forbidden) in islam in muslim countries:

Quran [5:44] And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed, such are the Kafirun (i.e. disbelievers - of a lesser degree as they do not act on Allah's Laws).

You cannot choose what laws you want to follow over what god has made compulsary, this is something non-muslims do not understand and one of the reasons groups like the afghan taliban have to fight the invasion

There are 'moderate' 'liberal' muslims who do not want to live by islamic law and want the freedom to commit filthy immoral acts as you get in the west - thats why some will migrate specially for this 'freedom'

NOTE TO MODS: Please leave the poll as public, last time you changed my taliban pole to private and I couldn't tell if its muslims or non-muslims voting
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Ummu Sufyaan
06-14-2010, 01:37 PM
:sl:
can someone change my vote to "shariah law" i accidentally pressed the wrong option.
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Masuma
06-14-2010, 02:23 PM
Western Democracy is one in which no consideration is given to as who is casting the vote. People even get elected by using doggy means whereas in Islam, the only law of Allah is prevalent. And I challenge anyone who says that peace can be restored by western democracy! It can't! Peace and real good life can only be accomplished by following the shariah COMPLETELY!

@ brother adill77:

format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
...You cannot choose what laws you want to follow over what god has made compulsary, this is something non-muslims do not understand and one of the reasons groups like the afghan taliban have to fight the invasion
Afghan Talibans really want Shariah Law? Do they promise to implement it later onwards when they get freedom, inshAllah? I know very little about Afghan Talibans. Are they really good?
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Masuma
06-14-2010, 02:26 PM
Brother Supreme!

I don't believe this!!! You are a Christian and you still voted for "Shariah law"? :ooh:

:awesome:So that means you agree that Islam is the only solution to the problems of mankind???
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Rhubarb Tart
06-14-2010, 02:28 PM
If you mean “democracy” as being able to vote leaders while Sharia law is still in place then I don’t mind that. But if you mean “democracy” as in you choose a leader and that leader creates their own law? Then no.

I don’t see any countries that are using the Sharia laws properly. I think if any government was misusing the Sharia law then I think we should be able to vote them out.
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Masuma
06-14-2010, 02:30 PM
^Of course no country right now is implementing the complete Shariah. That is why we WANT a shariah law! Shariah Law is far superior to democracy.

Some countries like Saudi Arabia have only implemented some parts of Shariah and so they are benefiting from it. The part of Shariah law they follow, it benefits them and the part of Shariah they don't follow; they consequently suffer form it!

There the punishment for rape is death penalty and so the least number of rape cases take place there. On the other hand, the highest number of rape cases take lace in what we called the world super power "America"!

If the countries would implement Shariah law, they would for sure get results.
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Rhubarb Tart
06-14-2010, 02:39 PM
Exactly. I have seen cases where both men and women are convicted without evidences. Sharia states there must be evidences. And if one repents or shows signs or remorse for only certain crimes, then he should be given a second chance.
Did you know that in Saudi Arabia, five Somali young boys, hands were chopped off without evidence to suggest they were stealing? In fact, it was proven afterwards, that they indeed did not steal. This is not Sharia law.

It is so much harder to convict people under the real Sharia laws. I don’t get how punishments in certain countries are being carried so swiftly. I want sharia laws that is fair and carried out properly.
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Zafran
06-14-2010, 02:43 PM
salaam

not a good poll - there should a third choice - both.

peace
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Gabriel Ibn Yus
06-14-2010, 02:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
salaam

not a good poll - there should a third choice - both.

peace
I actually find it cool...because it is a democratic way to show that Muslims do want a Sharia
based society...I actually find it very intelligent...
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Maryan0
06-14-2010, 02:52 PM
I would like Islamic law but really dont have faith in any group today to implement it properly. Many tend to think that the huddud is the whole Islamic sharia as opposed to it just being a small aspect of it.
Salam
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Masuma
06-14-2010, 02:57 PM
^What are you people talking about? Islamic system IS democracy! Shariah law automatically means democracy!

Don't you remember that Prophet (s.a.w) always consulted (kind of voting process) his companions about matters? So much so that at the time of Uhad, Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) wanted to fight the enemies while remaining inside Madinah but because the companions suggested him against it, so he had to agree. And we Muslims lost that war too but still Allah Subhano WatAllah commanded the Prophet (s.a.w) to keep consulting his fellows.

So the third option doesn't make sense to me. But of course brother Zafran has his own reasons to say this.
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Rhubarb Tart
06-14-2010, 03:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by An33za
^What are you people talking about? Islamic system IS democracy! Shariah law automatically means democracy!

Don't you remember that Prophet (s.a.w) always consulted (kind of voting process) his companions about matters? So much so that at the time of Uhad, Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) wanted to fight the enemies while remaining inside Madinah but because the companions suggested him against it, so he had to agree. And we Muslims lost that war too but still Allah Subhano WatAllah commanded the Prophet (s.a.w) to keep consulting his fellows.

So the third option doesn't make sense to me. But of course brother Zafran has his own reasons to say this.
I think it would be much clearer for Zafran if you explained what democracy is and how the islamic system is democratic. May you can give him and others more information on this. An article would be helpful.

:)
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Masuma
06-14-2010, 03:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
I think it would be much clearer for Zafran if you explained what democracy is and how the islamic system is democratic. May you can give him and others more information on this. An article would be helpful.

:)
Okay my sweet106, I'll make a separate thread for it. InshAllah!
May Allah bless you so much! :wub:
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Asiyah3
06-14-2010, 04:03 PM
Shariah law - complete and implemented properly. Al-hamdulillah.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-14-2010, 04:25 PM
Ofcourse the Shariah Law, NO Law is Better than the Law of Allaah our Creator!

And All Praise is due to Allaah!

Indeed

So yeah!
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Candle
06-14-2010, 04:25 PM
I'm voting for Shariah, HOWEVER, I do not feel that Saudi Arabia or any other country implementing 'Shariah' has done it properly. Shariah is supposed to be the perfect, ideal, law. Our understanding and implications of it seem to be flawed. The tradition of Fiqh cannot be made to have more importance than the Qur'an.
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Mohamed_Sadiq
06-14-2010, 04:29 PM
The brother means democracy of the western law, (the western type of government).

Also I vote for Sharia Law that is implemented properly.
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aadil77
06-14-2010, 04:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by An33za
Western Democracy is one in which no consideration is given to as who is casting the vote. People even get elected by using doggy means whereas in Islam, the only law of Allah is prevalent. And I challenge anyone who says that peace can be restored by western democracy! It can't! Peace and real good life can only be accomplished by following the shariah COMPLETELY!

@ brother adill77:



Afghan Talibans really want Shariah Law? Do they promise to implement it later onwards when they get freedom, inshAllah? I know very little about Afghan Talibans. Are they really good?
Allah knows best, I've been taught to trust my muslim brothers over invading non-muslims who supposedly want the best for muslims
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Gabriel Ibn Yus
06-14-2010, 04:35 PM
Democracy is so cool. They even let you vote every four years..It feels so involved...

But I think that the amazing thing is how much it is different than the way people used to live
as now with democracy we have no more wars, people are nice to each other do not kill each other
anymore for money and greed...Wow, modern world is so amazing...I really do not know who I came
to be so blessed to be born in this unique time in history where people are almost perfect (at least
the ones who are not unlucky barbarians and live in democratic countries)
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aadil77
06-14-2010, 04:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
salaam

not a good poll - there should a third choice - both.

peace
...why both?
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aadil77
06-14-2010, 04:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Ibn Yus
Democracy is so cool. They even let you vote every four years..It feels so involved...

But I think that the amazing thing is how much it is different than the way people used to live
as now with democracy we have no more wars, people are nice to each other do not kill each other
anymore for money and greed...Wow, modern world is so amazing...I really do not know who I came
to be so blessed to be born in this unique time in history where people are almost perfect (at least
the ones who are not unlucky barbarians and live in democratic countries)
sorry, are you being sarcastic?
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Gabriel Ibn Yus
06-14-2010, 04:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
sorry, are you being sarcastic?
Yes, a bit. Sorry :) I shouldn't have...
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aadil77
06-14-2010, 04:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
:sl:
can someone change my vote to "shariah law" i accidentally pressed the wrong option.
lol you're the odd one out
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Masuma
06-14-2010, 04:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
Allah knows best, I've been taught to trust my muslim brothers over invading non-muslims who supposedly want the best for muslims
Yeah makes perfect sense! :) But I felt like as if you support each and every act of Afghani Talibans. You don't, right? Because they are not doing real Qital in the way of Allah, right? They are only doing jihad, and jihad simply means to strive and struggle. Even a non-Muslim do jihad, if he strives and struggles for something!

I feel that we should support Afghani Talibans over invaders because it is their right to have freedom. I don't support them just because they are Muslims, as I don't know what type of Muslims they are. But I support them because of love for humanity.
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Somaiyah
06-14-2010, 04:49 PM
Assalamo alaykom,

I don't vote, because I believe that shariah law doesn't mean that democracy is totally gone. As Muslims we are allowed to think by ourselves and to question things, and shariah law in the way of being a good islamic country and society is something I really want.

But today there is no country who uses the shariah law the right way.
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Abu Zainab
06-14-2010, 05:21 PM
Shariah is sort of a democracy - but not every one is allowed to vote. A group of eminent scholars get together and choose among themselves the best one suited to lead the Islamic nation.

Imagine if such a way is applied in western countries (you can switch the religious scholars with university professors.) The world could be a much better place. This is because these learned people will be far more superior and just than an average politician.
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aadil77
06-14-2010, 05:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by An33za
Yeah makes perfect sense! :) But I felt like as if you support each and every act of Afghani Talibans. You don't, right? Because they are not doing real Qital in the way of Allah, right? They are only doing jihad, and jihad simply means to strive and struggle. Even a non-Muslim do jihad, if he strives and struggles for something!

I feel that we should support Afghani Talibans over invaders because it is their right to have freedom. I don't support them just because they are Muslims, as I don't know what type of Muslims they are. But I support them because of love for humanity.
I don't support every one of their acts, they're bound to have faults, but I support their enthusiasm to implement islam and fight for it - hopefully next time they will do a better job with certain laws but I feel they need the help of knowledgable scholars. Their views on suicide bombings are questionable, but again its the intentions that are more important.

I feel all the taliban are doing jihad for the sake of Allah, but only Allah knows their intentions, if you look at how Allah is giving them success then that should speak for itself on whether it is truly jihad fisabilillah.
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aadil77
06-14-2010, 05:40 PM
Yes and the desicions of scholars can be trusted, they will always come to a general concensus over matters
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-14-2010, 05:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
I don't support every one of their acts, they're bound to have faults, but I support their enthusiasm to implement islam and fight for it - hopefully next time they will do a better job with certain laws but I feel they need the help of knowledgable scholars. Their views on suicide bombings are questionable, but again its the intentions that are more important.

I feel all the taliban are doing jihad for the sake of Allah, but only Allah knows their intentions, if you look at how Allah is giving them success then that should speak for itself on whether it is truly jihad fisabilillah.
Sorry to sound dumb

But what success have the Taliban achieved Indeed?

Sorry if you`ve explained, i am slow at catching on sometimes indeed
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Supreme
06-14-2010, 05:52 PM
I support the right of Islamic states to govern themselves under their own set of laws. So long as it doesn't involve genocide in any form, and not too many human rights violations. As a matter of fact, there are even some aspects Shariah that appear attractive to me as a non-Muslim (although a lot of it I'm against). It honestly doesn't really affect me too much, so long as some nutters don't begin to get over-confident and start demanding Shariah in some non-Islamic countries.
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aadil77
06-14-2010, 05:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by мυѕℓιмαн 4 ℓιfє
Sorry to sound dumb

But what success have the Taliban achieved Indeed?

Sorry if you`ve explained, i am slow at catching on sometimes indeed
They control and have influence in 75% of afghanistan and every day they're sending more and more invading troops to Hell, this is the success of their jihad and inshAllah the kuffar will admit defeat (britain already has) and they will leave the country just like the soviets, Karzai has already said he doesn't believe the US can beat the taliban
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aadil77
06-14-2010, 06:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
I support the right of Islamic states to govern themselves under their own set of laws. So long as it doesn't involve genocide in any form, and not too many human rights violations. As a matter of fact, there are even some aspects Shariah that appear attractive to me as a non-Muslim (although a lot of it I'm against). It honestly doesn't really affect me too much, so long as some nutters don't begin to get over-confident and start demanding Shariah in some non-Islamic countries.
Shariah law cannot work in a non-muslim majority country and it just wouldn't make sense. I don't know why anyone would commit genocide to their own people again it doesn't make sense. Many islamic punishments are not accepted by human rights organisations, saudi has loads of human rights 'violations' but they will not change their laws to suit them, they're just not compatible.

And yes it doesn't affect you in anyway, which comes to the topic why particularly the US cannot leave others alone until they accept their way of life, its none of their business but they still insist on forcing democracy and puppet govt's on others.
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Masuma
06-14-2010, 07:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
Shariah law cannot work in a non-muslim majority country and it just wouldn't make sense. I don't know why anyone would commit genocide to their own people again it doesn't make sense. Many islamic punishments are not accepted by human rights organisations, saudi has loads of human rights 'violations' but they will not change their laws to suit them, they're just not compatible.

And yes it doesn't affect you in anyway, which comes to the topic why particularly the US cannot leave others alone until they accept their way of life, its none of their business but they still insist on forcing democracy and puppet govt's on others.
Exactly the point!

And I don't know why people think that Shariah would leave no room for democracy?! This doesn't even make sense!
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Supreme
06-14-2010, 09:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by An33za
Exactly the point!

And I don't know why people think that Shariah would leave no room for democracy?! This doesn't even make sense!
Isn't that part of the problem though? No one can seem to agree what Shariah Law involves. Iran and Saudi Arabia could be identified as implementing Sharia Law, and yet I've spoken to Muslims who don't believe they're doing it properly.
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Lynx
06-15-2010, 07:07 AM
the only way shariah law would work even in a Muslim majority is if that majority democratically chose shariah. if its forced upon them then the country will turn into iRan where a huge portion is forced to obey and little underground brothels start popping up. anyway, i agree with the people here who said they should have democracy + shariah or a counsel of learned scholars of different madhabs nominate people (isn't this sort of like the pope?).
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aadil77
06-15-2010, 08:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx
the only way shariah law would work even in a Muslim majority is if that majority democratically chose shariah. if its forced upon them then the country will turn into iRan where a huge portion is forced to obey and little underground brothels start popping up. anyway, i agree with the people here who said they should have democracy + shariah or a counsel of learned scholars of different madhabs nominate people (isn't this sort of like the pope?).
iran is not a shariah country, I'd be hesitant to say its a muslim country, they are far from islam

in iran you don't need brothels as their marriage method is virtually prositution, you pay the women some money and can have a 'islamic' marriage contract for a couple of hours to a couple of days - its completely forbidden in islam

in places like afghanistan you get instant justice, so I doubt many would risk opening brothels uness its in some NA or warlord controlled area

And you don't get to democratically choose sharaih even though most would be for it
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aadil77
06-15-2010, 08:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
Isn't that part of the problem though? No one can seem to agree what Shariah Law involves. Iran and Saudi Arabia could be identified as implementing Sharia Law, and yet I've spoken to Muslims who don't believe they're doing it properly.
iran is not implementing shariah, the main clerics of iran are considered non-muslim by most scholars, the country does not follow islam

problem with saudi is the puppet king in place, he has his own band of scholars who have to make rulings based on what he wants or they face prison, if it was just scholars in place there would be no problem as scholars always come to a general consensus over matters
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Gabriel Ibn Yus
06-15-2010, 09:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
iran is not a shariah country, I'd be hesitant to say its a muslim country, they are far from islam

in iran you don't need brothels as their marriage method is virtually prositution, you pay the women some money and can have a 'islamic' marriage contract for a couple of hours to a couple of days - its completely forbidden in islam

in places like afghanistan you get instant justice, so I doubt many would risk opening brothels uness its in some NA or warlord controlled area

And you don't get to democratically choose sharaih even though most would be for it
An interesting discussion...
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S_87
06-15-2010, 09:48 AM
shariah law is the pure uncorrupt way.
the caliph is chosen and if he is not fit he is dismissed.. :)
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piXie
06-15-2010, 11:41 AM
Shariah Law ofcourse. I mean the proper Shariah Law, like the one implemented in the Prophets :arabic5: and Sahabahs time. Not the one wrongly portrayed by the media and misunderstood by the people, because that is not shariah Law. If one was to study both shariah Law (Allaahs Law) and man made law, they would find more justice and wisdoms in the former than in the latter.

You don't need to be extra intelligent to see which has more benefits. You just need to be sincere.

I chose Shariah Law because I believe it is Gods Law. If the people of a home believe they have every right to run their home how they think best because its THEIR home, then the Lord has every right to run His earth how He thinks best, because its HIS earth.

There is a big difference between a nation who fights to implement their laws on an earth that does not belong to them, and a nation who fights to implement Gods laws on an earth that belongs to God. The former nation are the suppressors, and that latter nation are the liberators.

For mans Law is faulty and unfair, while Gods Law is perfect and Just.
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Masuma
06-15-2010, 01:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by piXie
Shariah Law ofcourse. I mean the proper Shariah Law, like the one implemented in the Prophets :arabic5: and Sahabahs time. Not the one being implemented nowadays nor the one purposely misunderstood by the media. If one was to study both shariah Law (Allaahs Law) and man made law, they would find more justice and wisdoms in the former than in the latter.

You don't need to be extra intelligent to see which has more benefits. You just need to be sincere.

I chose Shariah Law because I believe it is Gods Law. If the people of a home believe they have every right to run their home how they think best because its THEIR home, then the Lord has every right to run His earth how He thinks best, because its HIS earth.

There is a big difference between a nation who fights to implement their laws on an earth that does not belong to them, and a nation who fights to implement Gods laws on an earth that belongs to God. The former nation are the suppressors, and that latter nation are the liberators.

For mans Law is faulty and unfair, while Gods Law is perfect and Just.
SubhanAllah! :statisfie

And even with all the intelligent brains put together, no one can derive rulings and laws more better than the Laws of Allah!

This is because the true Shariah law is perfect and there is nothing left in a thing when it is PERFECT! :D
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Zafran
06-15-2010, 01:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
...why both?
Becasue this thread is indicating that there is a conflict between democracy and Shariah law which there clearly isnt.

If Democracy is a western type of governing system then what is an Islamic type of governing system?
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Masuma
06-15-2010, 02:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
Becasue this thread is indicating that there is a conflict between democracy and Shariah law which there clearly isnt.
Yes democracy and Shariah law have no conflict at all. :statisfie
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Candle
06-15-2010, 05:06 PM
I was just reading an article this morning relating to this:

To Judge by Other than Sharia
The fourth cause of apostasy is to judge by other than the sharia that Allah sent down to the Prophet Muhammad, sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam. For example those who believe that the systems and laws devised by men are better than the sharia, or that it is permissible to judge by other than the sharia even if one does not believe that judgment to be better than that of the sharia, or that Islam should be restricted to the private relationship between an individual and His Lord without entering into the other aspects of life.

http://www.beautifulislam.net/aqidah...f_apostasy.htm
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Asiyah3
06-15-2010, 06:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
If Democracy is a western type of governing system then what is an Islamic type of governing system?
Islamic is the one implemented in the Prophet's :saws1: and the Sahabas' (May Allah be pleased with them) time.
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aadil77
06-15-2010, 08:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by An33za
Exactly the point!

And I don't know why people think that Shariah would leave no room for democracy?! This doesn't even make sense!
Ruling on democracy and elections and participating in that system
What is the ruling on democracy and taking a leadership role in parliment or other levels of the democratical government? What is the ruling regarding voting for someone in democracy? How was the islamic state organized, and governed in the classical times?.
Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

Democracy is a man-made system, meaning rule by the people for the people. Thus it is contrary to Islam, because rule is for Allaah, the Most High, the Almighty, and it is not permissible to give legislative rights to any human being, no matter who he is.

It says in Mawsoo’at al-Adyaan wa’l-Madhaahib al-Mu’aasirah (2/1066, 1067):

Undoubtedly the democratic system is one of the modern forms of shirk, in terms of obedience and following, or legislation, as it denies the sovereignty of the Creator and His absolute right to issue laws, and ascribes that right to human beings. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“You do not worship besides Him but only names which you have named (forged) — you and your fathers — for which Allaah has sent down no authority. The command (or the judgement) is for none but Allaah. He has commanded that you worship none but Him (i.e. His Monotheism); that is the (true) straight religion, but most men know not”

[Yoosuf 12:40]

“The decision is only for Allaah”

[al-An’aam 6:57]

End quote.

This has been discussed in detail in the answer to question no. 98134.

Secondly:

The one who understands the true nature of the democratic system and the ruling thereon, then he nominates himself or someone else (for election) is approving of this system, and is working with it, is in grave danger, because the democratic system is contrary to Islam and approving of it and participating in it are actions that imply apostasy and being beyond the pale of Islam.

But as for the one who nominates himself or nominates others in this system in order to join the parliament and enjoin good and forbid evil, and establish proof against them, and reduce its evil and corruption as much as he can, so that people of corruption and disbelievers in Allaah will not have free rein to spread mischief in the land and spoil people’s worldly interests and religious commitment, this is a matter that is subject to ijtihaad, according to the interests that it is hoped will be served by that.

Some scholars are even of the view that getting involved in these elections is obligatory.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about the ruling on elections, and he replied: I think that elections are obligatory; we should appoint the one who we think is good, because if the good people abstain, who will take their place? Evil people will take their place, or neutral people in whom there is neither good nor evil, but they follow everyone who makes noise. So we have no choice but to choose those who we think are fit.

If someone were to say: We chose someone but most of the parliament are not like that,

We say: It does not matter. If Allaah blesses this one person and enables him to speak the truth in this parliament, he will undoubtedly have an effect. But what we need is to be sincere towards Allaah and the problem is that we rely too much on physical means and we do not listen to what Allaah says. So nominate the one who you think is good, and put your trust in Allaah. End quote.

From Liqaa’aat al-Baab al-Maftooh, no. 210

http://www.ibnothaimeen.com/all/soun...le_16230.shtml

The scholars of the Standing Committee for Issuing Fatwas were asked:

Is it permissible to vote in elections and nominate people for them? Please note that our country is ruled according to something other than that which Allaah revealed?

They replied:

It is not permissible for a Muslim to nominate himself in the hope that he can become part of a system which rules according to something other than that which Allaah has revealed and operates according to something other than the sharee’ah of Islam. It is not permissible for a Muslim to vote for him or for anyone else who will work in that government, unless the one who nominates himself or those who vote for him hope that by getting involved in that they will be able to change the system to one that operates according to the sharee’ah of Islam, and they are using this as a means to overcome the system of government, provided that the one who nominates himself will not accept any position after being elected except one that does not go against Islamic sharee’ah. End quote.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz, Shaykh ‘Abd al-Razzaaq ‘Afeefi, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ghadyaan, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Qa’ood.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah (23/406, 407

They were also asked:

As you know, here in Algeria we have what are called legislative elections. There are parties which call for Islamic rule, and there are others that do not want Islamic rule. What is the ruling on one who votes for something other than Islamic rule even though he prays?

They replied:

The Muslims in a country that is not governed according to Islamic sharee’ah should do their utmost and strive as much as they can to bring about rule according to Islamic sharee’ah, and they should unite in helping the party which is known will rule in accordance with Islamic sharee’ah. As for supporting one who calls for non-implementation of Islamic sharee’ah, that is not permissible, rather it may lead a person to kufr, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And so judge (you O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) among them by what Allaah has revealed and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they turn you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) far away from some of that which Allaah has sent down to you. And if they turn away, then know that Allaah’s Will is to punish them for some sins of theirs. And truly, most of men are Faasiqoon (rebellious and disobedient to Allaah).

50. Do they then seek the judgement of (the days of) Ignorance? And who is better in judgement than Allaah for a people who have firm Faith”

[al-Maa'idah 5:49-50].

Hence when Allaah stated that those who do not rule in accordance with Islamic sharee’ah are guilty of kufr, He warned against helping them or taking them as allies or close friends, and He commanded the believers to fear Him if they were truly believers. He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Take not as Awliyaa’ (protectors and helpers) those who take your religion as a mockery and fun from among those who received the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before you, and nor from among the disbelievers; and fear Allaah if you indeed are true believers”

[al-Maa’idah 5:57]

And Allaah is the Source of strength. May Allaah send blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions. End quote.

Standing Committee for Academic Research and Issuing Fatwas

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz, Shaykh ‘Abd al-Razzaaq ‘Afeefi, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ghadyaan

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah (1/373).



Islam Q&A
Reply

Woodrow
06-15-2010, 08:22 PM
I really can not comprehend how Sariah law can be actually implemented unless it is voted into place by democratic process.
Reply

Masuma
06-15-2010, 09:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I really can not comprehend how Sariah law can be actually implemented unless it is voted into place by democratic process.
But Shariah law does include democracy!!!! :( It is what should be called Islamic democracy!
Reply

Life_Is_Short
06-16-2010, 12:27 AM
Shariah Law for sure.

Democracy is a flawed concept and i don't believe in it. It gives the impression of legitmacy even if no such legitmacy exists. We are all told that we have a voice in how we are governed and yet you only need to look at the worldwide anti-Iraq war demostrations in 2003.
What political voice do Muslims have in Britain and to what extent would they approve of the many laws passed, such as British Licensing laws for alcohol? Consider also the 'non-combatants' taken prisoner in Afghanistan and Iraq by the U.S and held prisoner without trial in Guantanamo Bay.
Reply

Lynx
06-16-2010, 01:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
iran is not a shariah country, I'd be hesitant to say its a muslim country, they are far from islam
Well of course, you're a Sunni and they're 'raafidis' no? ;p

in iran you don't need brothels as their marriage method is virtually prositution, you pay the women some money and can have a 'islamic' marriage contract for a couple of hours to a couple of days - its completely forbidden in islam

....

And you don't get to democratically choose sharaih even though most would be for it
Oh yes, Muta is a nasty little practice. My point was if you forced Shariah on a majority Muslim country but most Muslims don't want Shariah it won't work and it'll turn into an Iran-like state where everyone's breaking the moral laws behind the governments back. As I & Woodrow (if Woodrow meant something else then I apologize for misquoting!) have said, you need the Shariah to be elected by the people.

Also, I think democracy and Shariah are compatible if the democracy is never allowed to go beyond Shariah law. Islam does not make it clear how leadership should be followed through. Sunnis go by what the Sahaba did and Shias ..well we know how that turned out. So why would it be incompatible for a Shariah state to be implemented with a democracy? There are a couple of advantages to this: first, Islam has multiple interpretations even within Sunnism (The 4 Madhabs); second, the Quran & Sunnah don't cover everything: they don't provide laws for how to drive cars, where people can build things, whether and how much minimum wage should be, how much should the environment be protected, how much money should be invested in things like space research, how much schools should be funded, etc. The list goes on infinitely but my point is, although we may have different opinions to each, a democracy might help find an answer to those questions that makes the people happy. Last, it stops people from corrupting the caliphate like the dynasties did in Islamic history. So democracy has advantages that need not step on the toes of Shariah law. The Taliban are a perfect example; imagine they were in charge of an imaginary Islamic state and they decided to cut the funding of women's education (it isn't compulsory in Islam for a woman to go to school as far as I know) . Some scholars would say 'to keep the unity one should obey the caliph in this regard no matter how strict (I think ibn taymiyah was of the opinion that we ought to obey the caliph so long as he doesn't do anything that makes him guilty of kufr) but a democracy would stop such things from happening.
Reply

FS123
06-16-2010, 08:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by An33za
But Shariah law does include democracy!!!! :( It is what should be called Islamic democracy!
Wording of the poll is wrong, and it is giving wrong impression.
Reply

piXie
06-16-2010, 09:22 AM
The original post explains clearly what the brother means when he says 'democracy'. But perhaps the title should be changed to 'Western Democracy' or 'man made Law' for more clarity.
Reply

aadil77
06-16-2010, 12:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx
Well of course, you're a Sunni and they're 'raafidis' no? ;p

The main religious leaders are for certain yes - they're not considered muslim by scholars, the rest of the iranians are victims of their misguidence and we don't know for sure if they follow the most deviant of their teachings

Oh yes, Muta is a nasty little practice. My point was if you forced Shariah on a majority Muslim country but most Muslims don't want Shariah it won't work and it'll turn into an Iran-like state where everyone's breaking the moral laws behind the governments back. As I & Woodrow (if Woodrow meant something else then I apologize for misquoting!) have said, you need the Shariah to be elected by the people.

That happens in every country, not everyone is going to want to live by islam. Things will go underground - even in saudi. Main thing is you will be unable to openly sin and break islamic laws - atleast this way you will not affect others around you eg; people who want to live by islam and not be affected by evil. If people are desperate to commit evil then they'll have to go through much more difficult ways of carrying out what they want as it won't be allowed in the open.

Also, I think democracy and Shariah are compatible if the democracy is never allowed to go beyond Shariah law.

True

Islam does not make it clear how leadership should be followed through. Sunnis go by what the Sahaba did

We'll just follow their example

and Shias ..well we know how that turned out. So why would it be incompatible for a Shariah state to be implemented with a democracy?

Democracy would be used in matters that aren't governed by islamic law - laws such as whether you can park on a double yellow line

There are a couple of advantages to this: first, Islam has multiple interpretations even within Sunnism (The 4 Madhabs); second, the Quran & Sunnah don't cover everything: they don't provide laws for how to drive cars, where people can build things, whether and how much minimum wage should be, how much should the environment be protected, how much money should be invested in things like space research, how much schools should be funded, etc. The list goes on infinitely but my point is, although we may have different opinions to each, a democracy might help find an answer to those questions that makes the people happy.

Yep exactly

Last, it stops people from corrupting the caliphate like the dynasties did in Islamic history. So democracy has advantages that need not step on the toes of Shariah law. The Taliban are a perfect example; imagine they were in charge of an imaginary Islamic state and they decided to cut the funding of women's education (it isn't compulsory in Islam for a woman to go to school as far as I know) . Some scholars would say 'to keep the unity one should obey the caliph in this regard no matter how strict (I think ibn taymiyah was of the opinion that we ought to obey the caliph so long as he doesn't do anything that makes him guilty of kufr) but a democracy would stop such things from happening.

hmm yep
I should have made my original post clear
Reply

Woodrow
06-16-2010, 10:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by piXie
The original post explains clearly what the brother means when he says 'democracy'. But perhaps the title should be changed to 'Western Democracy' or 'man made Law' for more clarity.
In spite of what many people think. America is not a true democracy. Contrary to popular belief, we as individuals do not get to vote for many of our laws. We elect representatives who in turn vote for laws. We do not even vote for our President. We vote for the electoral college who in turn votes for the President. The 10 states with the largest electorial votes pretty much control who wins. It is possible for a candidate to win the majority of the states, have the majority of the popular vote and still loose the election because the opposition carried the electoral college. The USA is not a democracy. It is Free Enterprise Capitalism. Although many Western Countries call themselves Democracies, I do not know of any country that is a Democracy.
Reply

aadil77
06-16-2010, 11:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Although many Western Countries call themselves Democracies, I do not know of any country that is a Democracy.
hmm same with muslims countries, we don't know any that follows shariah properly
Reply

Woodrow
06-17-2010, 03:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
hmm same with muslims countries, we don't know any that follows shariah properly

:sl:

Many countries are actually loosing much individual control of government. I personally believe that International Corporate Law is the is now the Government of many nations. Big business, is now a major world power, if not the largest world power. Very difficult to control as it has no national affiliation nor central rule, yet has investors from nearly every nation.
Reply

yahia12
06-19-2010, 10:01 AM
sharia laws. its implented properly but i think some muslims doestn agree punish people who commited filty crimes therfore they feel pity so they put blame on leaders...
Reply

Woodrow
06-19-2010, 12:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Serdar
sharia laws. its implented properly but i think some muslims doestn agree punish people who commited filty crimes therfore they feel pity so they put blame on leaders...
:sl:

You may be correct. But I do not know of any country that actually has Sharia law. Some have something they call Sharia, but it seems to be incomplete at best and in a few cases has very little resemblance to Sharia.
Reply

Supreme
06-19-2010, 01:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
:sl:

You may be correct. But I do not know of any country that actually has Sharia law. Some have something they call Sharia, but it seems to be incomplete at best and in a few cases has very little resemblance to Sharia.
May you give me a textbook definition of Sharia? May you also point out to me what Saudi Arabia/Iran other countries are doing wrong to practise 'incomplete' Sharia? Thanks.
Reply

Amadeus85
06-19-2010, 04:14 PM
Aristotle said - democracy is a reign of hyenas over the donkeys.


In my opinion liberal democracy reminds such situation -

There is a ship on rough sea, big storm, lightnings, water is flowing aboard, ship is staggering, and in such situation all members of crew have identical vote to decide, from the waiter, through stoker to a captain.

This is liberal democracy.
Reply

Woodrow
06-19-2010, 11:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
May you give me a textbook definition of Sharia? May you also point out to me what Saudi Arabia/Iran other countries are doing wrong to practise 'incomplete' Sharia? Thanks.
It is actually quite difficult to find a simple text book description of Sharia. For the Judicial system to operate correctly the judges have to have a very high level of experience and education in Islamic Jurisprudence. There is specific procedures for selecting a Qazi (Judge)

Historically the Islamic Judge (Qazi) was a legal secretary appointed by the provincial governors. Each Islamic nation may differ slightly in how the judges are selected. Some nations will use a formal process of legal education and internship in a lower court. For example, in Saudi Arabia there are two levels of courts. The formal Shariah Courts which were established in 1928 hear traditional cases. The Saudi government established a ministry of justice in 1970, and they added administrative tribunals for traffic laws, business and commerce. "All judges are accountable to God in their decisions and practices" (Lippman, p.66-68).
SOURCE

Saudi may have the closest thing to Sharia, but I feel they fall short as the law does not seem to be applied fairly to all Saudi residents.

I find that the other 56 countries that claim to have Sharia miss the boat in the way the Qazi are selected. In some of the alleged Sharia nation due process before a Qazi is ignored.
Reply

Al Qabayli
06-19-2010, 11:57 PM
At the very beginning, democracy was developped by philosophers. Some of them thought that democracy was the best society. In practice, we see everyday that this system can't work. We, muslims, have a system and we know that it works ! So why prefer a society which doesn't work as an islamic system.

If non-muslims say : "But look at islamic countries, there is inegality, and many bad things..." we can answer that muslim countries are like that because they DON'T want to applicate shariah

Look at `Umar ibn al-Khattab, Abu Bakr, `Uthman, `Ali !
And also `Umar ibn `abd al-`Aziz, before him the muslim empire was devastated and when he became Khalif and began to applicate shariah (intelligently, of course) the empire shined again

PS : I apologize for my bad english but as i said, i'm from France =)
Reply

Woodrow
06-20-2010, 12:21 AM
As strange as it sounds Sharia is much closer to ideal democracy then what is called Democracy by Western Nations. True Democracy does not exist. Every attempt to implement it has become corrupted almost as fast as it was adopted. Shariah gives the fairness promised by democracy, without hiding it behind a false sense of Freedom of Choice.
Reply

Al Qabayli
06-20-2010, 12:26 AM
It's exactly what I wanted to say !

Thank you, brother.
Reply

FS123
06-20-2010, 05:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
As strange as it sounds Sharia is much closer to ideal democracy then what is called Democracy by Western Nations. True Democracy does not exist. Every attempt to implement it has become corrupted almost as fast as it was adopted. Shariah gives the fairness promised by democracy, without hiding it behind a false sense of Freedom of Choice.
Well said!

.....
Reply

Khawar
06-21-2010, 10:50 AM
democracy is the need of the world community which are not on Islam. Islam is its own Principals and these Principals are much better than any economic Principals. Therefore, I think we may abide by the Principal of Shariah law.
Reply

syed_z
07-04-2010, 08:56 AM
Shariah has the Solution to ALL problems of Humanity....
Reply

titus
07-06-2010, 01:48 PM
As strange as it sounds Sharia is much closer to ideal democracy then what is called Democracy by Western Nations
Sharia is much like the original implementation of the United States Constitution. Except that in the US only white males could vote, under Sharia only Muslims would truly have power. Any time you limit the distribution of power like that you have abuses. It is inevitable.
Reply

CosmicPathos
07-06-2010, 03:19 PM
I am not too sure if we can call the Sharia proper a form of a democracy. Was not that the view of Benazir Bhutto? if you read her book which she wrote before her death, that is exactly what she believed in.

Prophet pbuh asked his companions and consulted them because at that time Islamic laws were being revealed. I am not too sure if we can allow a fallible human ruler Caliph these days to consult his countrymen to determine what is Islamic and what is not?

For example, a truly democratic system would mean that the "Caliph" ask his citizens what are the views on abortion! Islam clearly reprehends abortion except for emergency needs. Many countrymen of this Sharia country might support abortion for leisure! But the fact that their desires cannot be voted means that this Sharia is not a democratic process.

I think we should stop "buttering" the Sharia by saying its truly democratic. I believe it is not. It is more of a dictatorial rule in which rules are dictated from Quran and Sunnah. Any opposition to those rules, no matter if 99% of the citizens do that, will be punishable!

Saudi Arabia is doing a good job of levying out Capital punishments. All punishments are given after a proper judicial process. The only issue is of Saudi wealthy and influential citizens who might buy their way out, that happens rarely. I've seen rich and influential Saudis get their heads chopped off ...
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
07-06-2010, 03:37 PM
Things such as driving could have sorted out democratic way.

Saudi Arabia is not following proper Sharia law. You talk about these few rich and influential men heads being chopped off. But compared too much more getting away with anything they want.

How many people do they kill in Saudi? How many killed without proof?

My uncle was born in Saudi Arabia, aged 31 he still can’t get citizenship. If he loses his job today, they will send him back to his "country" despite being born in Saudi and have to live there all his life. Even now, when they supposedly changed the rules, he still can’t get it.

Saudi may be the only country close to Sharia law but the corrupt government is disgrace toward the ummah.

And the prophet Mohammed peace be upon him may have took the ruling from the Quran and did he ignore people opinions at that time? I want to answer to this question.
Reply

CosmicPathos
07-06-2010, 03:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Things such as driving could have sorted out democratic way.

Saudi Arabia is not following proper Sharia law. You talk about these few rich and influential men heads being chopped off. But compared too much more getting away with anything they want.

How many people do they kill in Saudi? How many killed without proof?

My uncle was born in Saudi Arabia, aged 31 he still can’t get citizenship. If he loses his job today, they will send him back to his "country" despite being born in Saudi and have to live there all his life. Even now, when they supposedly changed the rules, he still can’t get it.

Saudi may be the only country close to Sharia law but the corrupt government is disgrace toward the ummah.

And the prophet Mohammed peace be upon him may have took the ruling from the Quran and did he ignore people opinions at that time? I want to answer to this question.
I am not too sure what not giving Saudi citizenship has to do with Islam? I have not come across any Islamic ruling which says the government is obliged to give citizenship status (just the name) to this people. Half of my family was born in saudi, they dont have citizenship. And we dont like the fact that we dont. But we dont go around criticizing and saying "ooh they are not following Islam, just beause they didnt give us citizenship."
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
07-06-2010, 03:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist
I am not too sure what not giving Saudi citizenship has to do with Islam? I have not come across any Islamic ruling which says the government is obliged to give citizenship status (just the name) to this people. Half of my family was born in saudi, they dont have citizenship. And we dont like the fact that we dont. But we dont go around criticizing and saying "ooh they are not following Islam, just beause they didnt give us citizenship."
There is no nation within Islam though? There is no race within Islam.

So do you honestly think Prophet himself peace be upon would stop my uncle from getting citizenship? In fact, would there be such thing as citizenship. I don’t think so...


"AND MANKIND IS NAUGHT BUT A SINGLE NATION." Holy Quran 2:213

"AMONG HIS SIGNS IS THIS,THAT HE CREATED YOU FROM DUST: AND THEN, BEHOLD, YE ARE MEN SCATTERED( FAR AND WIDE)"
"AND AMONG HIS SIGNS IS THE CREATION OF THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH, AND THE VARIATIONS AND DIVERSITY OF YOUR TONGUES AND OF YOUR COLOR; VERILY IN THAT ARE SIGNS FOR THOSE WHO KNOW."
Holy Qur'an 30:22

Prophet(P.B.U.H.) re-affirmed re-stated the principle of equality and brotherhood of man in Islam, thus bequeathing it as a sacred legacy to generation after generation of Muslims after him until the present day. Let me quote from the oration: "YE PEOPLE! LISTEN TO MY WORDS, FOR I KNOW NOT WHTHER ANOTHER YEAR WILL BE VOUCH SAFED TO ME AFTER THIS YEAR TO FIND MYSELF AMONGST YOU AT THIS PLACE."
"YOUR LIVES AND PROPERTY ARE SACRED AND INVIOLABLE AMONGST ONE ANOTHER UNTIL YE APPEAR BEFORE THE LORD... AND REMEMBER, YE SHALL HAVE TO APPEAR BEFORE YOUR LORD WHO SHALL DEMAND FROM YOU AN ACCOUNT OF ALL YOUR ACTIONS... YE PEOPLE, YE HAVE RIGHTS OVER YOUR WIVES, AND YOUR WIVES HAVE RIGHTS OVER YOU. TREAT THEM WITH KINDNESS AND LOVE... KEEP ALWAYS FAITHFULL TO THE TRUST REPOSED IN YOU." "YE PEOPLE LISTEN TO MY WORDSAND UNDERSTAND THEM. KNOE YE THAT ALL MUSLIMS ARE BROTHERS UNTO ONE ANOTHER. YE ARE ONE BROTHERHOOD." "ALL MEN ARE EQUAL IN ISLAM. THE ARAB HAS NO SUPERIORITY OVER THE NON-ARAB,NOR DOES THE NON-ARAB HAVE SUPERIORITY OVER THE ARAB, SAVE IN THE FEAR OF GOD."



Citizenship is much more Islamic then bloody driving I tell ya. :)
Reply

CosmicPathos
07-06-2010, 04:04 PM
perhaps. I never said that they are doing a good job by not giving citizenship. I am just saying that it is not a reason for us to say that they are non-Islamic or not following Islam as there is no such hard and fast ruling in Islam. Lets look at it this way. Just because England gives citizenship to ppl who are born there, are you saying that England is Islamic?
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
07-06-2010, 04:12 PM
No england is not islamic...


But the Saudi is clearly going against the teaching above along with other issues....making them less Islamic government. They may be the closet to Islamic government.... but also the furthest in some aspects. I don’t know what to call them.

Not to mention their role in foreign policies providing oil and all to the west...how do you think those trunk heading to Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan, Somalia move with? oh and global warming...
Reply

CosmicPathos
07-06-2010, 04:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
No england is not islamic...


But the Saudi is clearly going against the teaching above along with other issues....making them less Islamic government. They may be the closet to Islamic government.... but also the furthest in some aspects. I don’t know what to call them.

Not to mention their role in foreign policies providing oil and all to the west...how do you think those trunk heading to Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan, Somalia move with? oh and global warming...
btw, I dont believe Global warming is a real issue. There is no scientific evidence to suggest that global warming is devastating etc. It is just Al Gore's hype. Temperatures are increasing, but that is a normal thing in Earth's history. Maybe humans are stimulating the increase? Who knows, we cant tell how it otherwise would ahve been because it all depends on probabilistic models and predictions.
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
07-06-2010, 04:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist
btw, I dont believe Global warming is a real issue. There is no scientific evidence to suggest that global warming is devastating etc. It is just Al Gore's hype. Temperatures are increasing, but that is a normal thing in Earth's history. Maybe humans are stimulating the increase? Who knows, we cant tell how it otherwise would ahve been because it all depends on probabilistic models and predictions.
okay whatever you say. I believe it is a real issue but if you say otherwise I would agree to disagree.

Edit: btw dont think I hate Saudi or any other country or its people. I just believe the whole World is messed up.
Reply

smile
07-06-2010, 04:40 PM
i lıve in democracy ....good
governments abuse sharıah law
Reply

'Abd Al-Maajid
07-06-2010, 04:46 PM
If sharia law is imposed in my country there will be bloodbath.....
Reply

syed_z
07-06-2010, 05:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by abdulmajid
If sharia law is imposed in my country there will be bloodbath.....
what country is yours ? and why do you say such ?
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
07-06-2010, 05:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
what country is yours ? and why do you say such ?
India, considering the majority of their people are not muslims. I dont see how it would take place anyways.
Reply

titus
07-06-2010, 05:46 PM
Any country which does not have a massive Muslim majority that tries to impose Shariah would become a bloodbath most likely.
Reply

syed_z
07-06-2010, 06:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist
I am not too sure if we can call the Sharia proper a form of a democracy. Was not that the view of Benazir Bhutto? if you read her book which she wrote before her death, that is exactly what she believed in.

Prophet pbuh asked his companions and consulted them because at that time Islamic laws were being revealed. I am not too sure if we can allow a fallible human ruler Caliph these days to consult his countrymen to determine what is Islamic and what is not?

For example, a truly democratic system would mean that the "Caliph" ask his citizens what are the views on abortion! Islam clearly reprehends abortion except for emergency needs. Many countrymen of this Sharia country might support abortion for leisure! But the fact that their desires cannot be voted means that this Sharia is not a democratic process.

I think we should stop "buttering" the Sharia by saying its truly democratic. I believe it is not. It is more of a dictatorial rule in which rules are dictated from Quran and Sunnah. Any opposition to those rules, no matter if 99% of the citizens do that, will be punishable!

Saudi Arabia is doing a good job of levying out Capital punishments. All punishments are given after a proper judicial process. The only issue is of Saudi wealthy and influential citizens who might buy their way out, that happens rarely. I've seen rich and influential Saudis get their heads chopped off ...


Democracy in West is that Church and State are separate and all the Sovereignty Belongs to the People and is invested in the People and they are able to make their own laws according to the minds of the Majority. So its a Majority Rule.... In Islam a good example is the Constitution of Pakistan... in a Muslim Country Shariah, which we call the Islamic Khilafah.. can be implemented but ALL the laws would be made within the Sphere of Quran and Sunnah...

For example in case of Pakistan the Constitution says... No Law shall be made that is Repugnant to Quran and Sunnah...and... sovereignty
over the entire universe belongs to Almighty Allah alone.

Just giving the example of Pakistan, NOT that Pakistan does follow Islamic Law, because country is full of corrupt politicians ruling according to their OWN will and NOT the Will of Allah (swt)... but just to see it as an example, this is how Shariah can be made within any Muslim Nation...


1st of All we have to understand that Man is a Representative of God on Planet Earth... and therefore since the Kingdom Belongs to God and we are His representative, we are to rule according to His Rule...



(2:30) Just recall the time when your Lord said to the angels , "I am going to appoint a vicegerent (khalifa) on the Earth."



Any Law which is formed will be formed under the Light of Quran and Sunnah, since abortion just for leisure is Haraam, there is NO question that such law will be implemented or people would even be asked, because its against humanity, and so the President or Leader who rules will not implement it...


HOWEVER Sovereignty in God does not mean that there is no room for People to make any laws for themselves... they very well can and there fore since Islamic Law in which Islamic Legislation is handed down in the form of Quran and Sunnah, we Muslims can for Temporal Legislations according to the needs of our time. Many people have in the West Specially, that Shariah or Islamic Law means, Clergy rule or Priest Class rule... no... not at all... the Laws are made according to the Interests of all people living in that State...


What we Muslims don't agree with Western Democracy is that Sovereignity Belongs to the people i.e meaning Any Law could be made even if it Violates the Law of Allah (swt) , example Same Sex Marriage, Making Alcohol Legal, all of these just because Majority voted yes and Parliament approved it....



So Niether is Islamic State with Islamic Law a Priestly Class rule, niether is it a Western Style Democracy in which People do As they like, No... it is rather a System with One head, who makes sure that all Rule is Done under the Injunctions of Quran and Sunnah, and just to remind that Quran and Sunnah, is NOT the personal Property of any of any one among the rulers, that is President or the administration with him.... so if he implements an act against Quran and Sunnah, people can catch him...because Quran is to be read and kept and learned and studied by all (Muslims only) in that state...



Prophet pbuh asked his companions and consulted them because at that time Islamic laws were being revealed. I am not too sure if we can allow a fallible human ruler Caliph these days to consult his countrymen to determine what is Islamic and what is not?
and a Good example of what bro mad_scientist was referring regarding Consultation which to is this Verse of the Quran which does allow Muslims to make their Decisions by Mutual Consultations...


“…the conduct of their affairs is by mutual consultation…” (42:38).




The only issue is of Saudi wealthy and influential citizens who might buy their way out, that happens rarely. I've seen rich and influential Saudis get their heads chopped off
No One is above the Islamic Law, not even President... if Caliph Umar (r.a) went to the Court then NO one is above the Law of God... Saudi Arabia has not implemented Shariah in its true form...


So hope you understand bro mad-Scientist...
Reply

syed_z
07-06-2010, 06:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
Any country which does not have a massive Muslim majority that tries to impose Shariah would become a bloodbath most likely.

Shariah would be only in Muslim Majority rule... agreed :)
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syed_z
07-06-2010, 06:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by smile
i lıve in democracy ....good
governments abuse sharıah law

they can... like Pakistan, the Constitution is Islamic, BUT ... rulers abuse Islamic Law... because the Judiciary is corrupt as well..
Reply

sabr*
07-22-2010, 02:36 AM
سم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Bismillā hir Rahmā nir Rahīm
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful


As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

The Shariah is based upon the infallible direction and commandments of Allah. Democracy is based upon the fallible, currupt, greed, self-centered interests of man. Research the difference between the Popular vote and the Electoral vote. Special interest with money have the real power and rule in a democracy.

A reason countries desire to implement democracy is only because of the centuries of dictatorships and totalitarianism regimes. Who wouldn't want to get from under that suffering. That isn't living.
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__follower
07-22-2010, 07:41 AM
shariah ,dun want to follow da west liek monkeys .
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__follower
07-22-2010, 07:42 AM
and thats the way it was at the time of our prophet so thats da best ,
look at da democratic countries ,troubles everywhere
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M.I.A.
07-22-2010, 08:27 PM
it would probably take all the respected shieks in the world sat in one room for an extended amount of time all day everyday for it to be successful.
something like parliment for shieks or something.
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Brasco
07-22-2010, 09:04 PM
Bismillah!

As salamu aleykum wr!


It is not a matter that we choose or want, if one's a muslim, he gotta submit to Allah ta'ala. And whatsoever there is no ruling order except the Sharia!! I did not read the other pages, so I do not know weather this was posted or not.

Shaik al Islam Muhammad ibn abdul wahab - may Allah have mercy on him - said in Nawaqid Al Islam (The Nullifiers of Islam):

Whoever believes that it is permitted for some people to be free of (implementing) the Sharee’ah (revealed laws) of Muhammad (i.e. Islaam), just as it was permitted for Al-Khidr to be free from the Sharee’ah of Moosaa, then he is a disbeliever.


I do not know what's the purpose behind this thread :S

And Allah knows best!!
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aadil77
07-22-2010, 09:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Brasco
I do not know what's the purpose behind this thread :S

And Allah knows best!!
Basically to let non-muslims know that we want shariah in our countries and don't want western democracy forced on us everytime our countries get invaded by western forces

I also wanted to see if some 'moderate' puppet muslims are against shariah law
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M.I.A.
07-22-2010, 09:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
Basically to let non-muslims know that we want shariah in our countries and don't want western democracy forced on us everytime our countries get invaded by western forces

I also wanted to see if some 'moderate' puppet muslims are against shariah law
how can you have sharia when it cannot be correctly implemented?
the only places that come close are under close scrutiny of the entire world. i suppose you live in a democracy, you are allowed to pray freely i presume? to eat how you wish to eat and to earn how you want to earn? to speak how you want to speak unless youre inciting hatred amongs people (thats another matter entirely) so you are free to keep your code of sharia in all aspects of your life!!
whats to complain about?
the situations half a world away?
the opression of people?
torture and excessive cruelty of the innocent just beacuse of there beliefs?
get a grip! if you pick up a weapon expect to die and if you live half a world away expect to live a sad life until you can change the hearts and minds of a people unlike your own.
...i expect thats the struggle.
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Bintulislam
07-22-2010, 10:48 PM
I would definitely go for Democracy,if the quality of people is credible enough to be put up with such an immense responsibility(mentally,thoughtfully,spiritually,m orally,socially,knowledgeably).Only if they are all purified of sins and aren't evil followers,are all good,nice and selfless

And if by Democracy,you mean whateva-the-majority-sez ,whether they resolve over good or evil, if you mean the popular thought of people should be entertained to form law.Even if they are being dishonest over stuff and resolve to approve bad things just because they-the majority think that its right.THEN A BIG NO for people who are fallible,sometimes do mistakes unknowingly and sometimes deliberately.People-blood and flesh like you and me who can be selfish and self-oriented when have there weak points hit or greed/hatred,who can be trapped by Shiatan or lured by Nafs very easily.People who are material loving.And above all we do we have enough knowledge of the world having even tiny winy compatiblity to the CREATOR's.We don't know what's right and what's wrong,we aren't even capable of making a criterion satisfactory enough to distinguish what's right and what's wrong.Where did we derive the present criteria?From the religions and Holy books I believe.Since all past religions and Holy books have lost their authenticity,have been tampered and interpreted in unfair manner by whom?(people of course).Then Allah SWT the Creator,the All-knowing,the Subduer,the Sufficient,the Wise,the Witness,the Nourisher,the Magnigicent,the Preserver,the Soverign,,the Patient,the Utterly Just,the Watcful,the Merciful,the Sufficient,the Guide,the Teacher,the Loving,the Dependable,the Judge,the Pure,the Perfect,the Gentle,the All-forgiving,,the First,the Last,the Bringer of judgement and many more of His attributs which only He possess revealed Qur'an and sent the final Prophet(s.a.w.w) to show a practical example of how a human being should be and he(s.a.w.w) made Medina a perfect example of how a country(claiming to be a welfare state) must be run and what law should be followed-so crystal clearly.And certified it to be the right and its followers the righteouse.And then Allah SWT ,the Guardian took the responsibility to keep the word of Qur'an so that its never edited.And that's an unchallengeable thing.So basically Shariah is the MODERN LAW-those who follow it,feel free to call yourself MODERN.In short,I'd rather stick to shariah.

Then to weak thoughts,baseless gestures and ignorant mutual approvals.

Peace
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Sister Unknown
07-22-2010, 11:01 PM
Of course we want Shar'ah law. Anything contradicting it is by teh shaytan and us (evil).
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aadil77
07-22-2010, 11:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A.
how can you have sharia when it cannot be correctly implemented?
the only places that come close are under close scrutiny of the entire world. i suppose you live in a democracy, you are allowed to pray freely i presume? to eat how you wish to eat and to earn how you want to earn? to speak how you want to speak unless youre inciting hatred amongs people (thats another matter entirely) so you are free to keep your code of sharia in all aspects of your life!!
whats to complain about?
the situations half a world away?
the opression of people?
torture and excessive cruelty of the innocent just beacuse of there beliefs?
get a grip! if you pick up a weapon expect to die and if you live half a world away expect to live a sad life until you can change the hearts and minds of a people unlike your own.
...i expect thats the struggle.
what are you on about? do you know what shariah law is?

what has your post got to do with what I said?
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Woodrow
07-25-2010, 02:40 PM
Seems to be a very irrelevant question. If you have a democracy in a true Islamic Country, they would vote in Sharia. You can not have a true Islamic country without it being under true sharia. And if the population wants a truly Islamic country they will want true Sharia.
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