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h-n
06-22-2010, 03:08 AM
They all know that Allah exists!

Allah has already stated in the Quran so many times, that people are denying the truth, he never said that they denying Islam because they didn’t think it was true.

98:6 (Asad) Verily, those who [despite all evidence] are bent on denying the truth - [be they] from among the followers of earlier revelation or from among those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God - will find themselves in the fire of hell, therein to abide: they are the worst of all creatures.

Saying that Allah does not exist;-

1. They try and deny Islam and say to themselves they are better at thinking, when they are far astray.

They ask were is the proof that Allah exists, then they talk about evolution;-
Even in the Quran, Allah has already provided the answer that he has created Males and females. They talk of evolution then what also explains how people are created in the womb-do they call that fast evolution in 9 months. Are they saying that cells get together and have a conversation saying to each other;-

- you’ll be a Male and you can be the female??

- male will be created to produce the sperm and the female would be created to produce the egg?
- the cells are organising themselves saying you’ll be the heart, lung, and I’ll be the stomach etc?

- they are creating the blood vessels and already arranging what is required?

It is absolutely impossible for cells to clump together and then look at the bigger picture of how to be a person. Allah is the Creator, and still fashions the babies in the wombs to be people. Even for them to say that the evolution started ages ago, but so many creatures have been created, even at the same time. Even if they were to talk about the first life form it still does not explain how they fashioned into so many creatures. There is of course reference that Allah used the soils in this world to create humans which is why they get confused when they say we are the same family and related, but we are not.

-they are asking us to disbelieve when Allah has already asked them that if they really are so truthful then right a verse like the Quran which would mean that they can bring it on the Day of Judgement and save themselves from the fires of Hell if they are truthful, why they cannot even create a fly. When they are messing around with cells etc, they are already using what Allah has provided and not created their own.

Saying that he cannot have created ;-

2. When Allah says "Be!" then it is, what else did they expect, that God get a hammer, and some nails and start putting pieces together?

Following those that are not better then the Prophets;-

3. They say they are clever because they are quoting this and that from this person, when the people they are quoting are not better then the Prophets! Are they going to say that Richard Dawkins is better then Prophet Jesus peace be upon him? Whey are they so quick to follow after people who are nothing in comparison to the Prophets? Its because they look for the life of this world. Why did Richard Dawkins put up a poster -there probably is no God, so live your life-so he is already saying that don’t believe in Allah so you can enjoy your life in this world! Why would he have to say that to people if it wasn’t connected about non-Muslims looking for the life of this world?

We would never listen to someone over the best of people -the Prophets Ibrahim, Jesus, Muhammad, Noah, Lut, Job, Salih, Joseph peace be upon them etc.

Scientists;-

4. They quote Science, thinking its clever. Allah has stated in the Quran that this world is limited, So why do Scientists go after something that they will never be part of or their children. Don’t bother quoting caring about people, if they really cared about people they would spend time with people more, and providing the money to the poor.

- It is like a person who wants to copy off actors-he wants the same respect he gets, so he becomes one,

- It is like a person who wants to be a footballer to copy off the other footballers, so to be treated like they are.

-they become scientists to copy off the other Scientists, to be treated with respect and people would think they are clever.

- the scientist were rejecting the Christianity in the past to be arrogant to religion (as explained a bit about the test in “Satan refusing to prostrate thread”. As soon as people talked more about Islam, people wanted to treat Islam like they have done with Christianity by saying we don’t accept science so help them to attack Islam but they could not as we have no problems with learning about the world around us.

-they are disgusting do they not think we are happy for Allah to have created us and fashioned us, where is the dignity in saying so and so has messed around with your egg, and then implanted it back into your Mother. We don't want others to mess around with how we are, our dignity is with Allah. They deprive their children of dignity, but yet call themselves better.

- they will not set foot on Jupiter etc, and they would not be able to leave this galaxy.

- so there are evil people who look for the life of this world to achieve for them attainable goals like getting a car, a house, but the scientist already know they are going after something that they never will have -which makes them more stupid, then the masses!

- why is it that the Scientist want to be remembered when they are dead more then there work. There are Scientist who are writing any theories to lay claim to them, so when they are dead if a future generation finds out if they were right, they will get the credit! Not writing down theories, hypothesis that they themselves can prove.

- even in Medicine only evil people would think about organ donation, to think up the idea of cutting someone else up and taking their organs, even Allah said;-
Thou wilt indeed find them, of all people, most greedy of life,-even more than the idolaters: Each one of them wishes He could be given a life of a thousand years: But the grant of such life will not save him from (due) punishment. For Allah sees well all that they do. 2:96
They have not cured the organ just tossed it away.

- they go into fields they say in the name of Science so they can be arrogant, which explains why so many people are complaining that they are not looking seriously at the cases of ghosts, devils, parallel worlds. As the scientists know this would be a lot of hard work, and they don’t get a lot of credit for this work. Even if they found something, others would dismiss them as being mad. Even suggesting theories on these ideas of Devils actually existing-so they are being open-minded.

-why has science been trying to find out better ways of torturing someone??

-why has science been trying to find out better ways of killing people? If they really cared about people? And they say they do science to help people?

-even Scientists have said that is human nature to go around and find out what other things is in relation to them! So if you took them to another place, world, in the past, its about their relationship with them-they do not look at the relationship of Allah and his creation, but between themselves!

Aliens;-

5. They say they believe there is intelligent life on other planets, and yes Muslims do so too, and they are worshipping Allah, what would they do visit the aliens and tell them they don’t believe in Allah?? They already it has been normal for people to have religion, why don’t they think that these aliens would also have a religion-which is the same-Islam. The religion of Prophet Jesus, Muhammad, Ibrahim, Noah, Salih, David, Solomon peace be upon him.

Technology;-

6. They then talk about having televisions, mobiles, computers etc to show off. Well did not the people who were destroyed before them also show off to the religious? Have they not been destroyed?

- Like the story of babel that the people, this time do they not see that they are communication etc and they have been warned. They have seen so many natural disasters on their televisions etc. So whey they get on the Day of Judgement they cannot say they have not been warned.

- Do they think that Allah would leave them alone with their children when they do not teach anything about Islam?? If they did not have much communication is that all their children will be seeing is their lewd, unreligious behaviour?
Using other religion;-

Using other religion;-

7. They then try and throw anything at Islam saying that other religions claim they are correct, how can they say that when all the Prophets Noah, Ibrahim, Jesus, Muhammad peace be upon them etc have stated to worship the one God and remember the Day of Judgement and in Paradise and Hell. The Christians and the Jews don’t even bow down to Allah as the Prophets have done, don’t even sacrifice animals as the Prophets have done.

-in the Quran it states that the King Solomon peace be upon him had control of the winds the Jinn etc, now today they are saying that this was left out purposely from the bible-so were did Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him get this information as he could not read or write??

-they say we are copying off them, nay why shouldn’t Allah tell about the Prophets that he sent before to Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him? Even the Jews were questioning him to see if he was correct on information-none of them at that time said he was copying off someone or so and so.

-if we were copying off them then we would not have been successful to have spread Islam successfully around, if we copied off them then how did we finish idol worship in Saudi Arabia etc???

-typical sinners at that time, they are critical of Islam, but not of Hindus etc, they were happy to live with so much filth in Saudi Arabia at that time, but they had a problem with Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him?? They make excuses saying its about terrorism, nay they are liars, then why did they throw Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him in the fire when he was not attacking anyone? Why did they invade Prophet Lut peace be upon him when he did not hurt anyone? They are as Allah said denying the truth for they are being sinful people. Just in the “Freedom and evil acceptance” they are denying the truth so they can continue to be evil without having anyone being critical to them.

-their governments have been going around countries and have not been telling the population of what trouble they are causing and when there is trouble they run to the masses so they can get support-is not the USA saying to Iran we are prepared to attack you? Why are they saying this without talking to their population or gaining their permission? Its rather like a son causing trouble then running back home to his family for them to help him, but he is not telling that he caused it.

Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him marrying Ayesha;-

8. They talk about Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him marrying Ayesha, then they should bring an argument to that time, his companions, his wives, other people, the idol worshippers, the Jews, the Christians did not attack him at that time for marrying Ayesha. So who are they to attack him now??

Day of Judgement;-

9. They say that people believed in the Day of Judgement in the past, but it never happened. It does not matter when a person dies they will still stand on the Day of Judgement. Of course the people of Aad and Thamud also denyed of this in the past, and said they were going to be fine, but of course they are on the way to Hell.

Why is Allah testing us?

10. They ask why is Allah testing them, they are happy to try and prove to people, and show off to people, and try and be someone in this world, but they can’t bring themselves to answer why we have to prove ourselves as good people -which I already answered on the “Satan refusing to prostrate” thread. Aren't we happy with striving for Paradise and then happy with what we have done and with Allah's Merciful and being created so we know that he exists and we are enjoying what he has provided us with? Yes we are.

Lewd, homosexuals;-

11. They are happy to side with lewd people, homosexuals then the Prophets Ibrahim, Noah, Lut, David Muhammad peace be upon them etc? Then they are saying that they are clever for going against Islam, why do those homosexuals and lewd people make more sense to them?

Hell;

12. They ask why they should be sent to Hell if Allah is so Merciful, for them to be sent to Hell does not change the fact that Allah is Merciful. They have sent themselves to Hell. There is no difference to someone saying in Paradise we reject islam-what more proof do they need? That is why in apostasy there are no second chances you go to hell. If you were in Paradise and said you don’t accept Allah of course you deserve to be thrown out. Again the test is covered in “Satan refusing to prostrate”.

Islam the message that they are receiving today;-

13. Even the Christians are saying that Prophet Jesus peace be upon him will be coming back, we are not going to have another Prophet until these countries have finished and after the Dajjal. Islam is teaching them what they need to know and warning them, they are reacting back to Islam as a person would do to a Prophet, by being arrogant, ignorant, rejecting the truth even torturing believers.

Islam is doing what Christianity and Judaism could not do teach the whole world! As Christianity was worshipping idols and Jews were changing religion even now saying that there is no Hell. They do not look for the life of this world. Even Christians have admitted if it wasn’t for Islam people would not have spoken about Allah as much as they are doing today. They are being tested (as explained in the “Collapse of the countries today” thread.
They are not going to get another Prophet, they have Islam which has relayed the same message provided by all the Prophets.

On the Day of Judgement;-

14. So as above they are saying anything to try and say they going against Islam for a good reason, but they have nothing, even look at their faces, it actually that the are trying to convince themselves that Allah does not exist! Just like some females when they get their lewd behaviour acceptable, and say that its normal, when it is not and never will be.
If they say to you they disbelieve, then say to them to repeat it on the Day of Judgement-were Allah has stated in the Quran;-

[46:34] The day the disbelievers are introduced to the Hellfire, they will be asked, "Is this not the truth?" They will answer, "Yes indeed, by our Lord." He will say, "Then suffer the retribution for your disbelief."

-they will not want to stand with Richard Dawkin then,
-they will not want to stand with the homosexuals then.
-they will be saying;-

40:47 (Asad) AND LO! They [who in life were wont to deny the truth] will contend with one another in the fire [of the hereafter]; and then the weak will say unto those who had gloried in their arrogance, “Behold, we were but your followers: can you, then, relieve us of some [of our] share of this fire?”



No one will be saying to Allah on the Day of Judgement;-


1. Who are you?
2. Why are we here?
3. What is Hell?
4. I didn't know that homosexuality was a bad thing.
5. I didn't know that being lewd was wrong.


Do not believe their lies, they all know they are rejecting the truth and what is good.
They are doing the same as any other sinful person going against the good instead of evil, just as the people attacked the Prophet Lut, Ibrahim peace be upon him instead of standing away from the evil and repenting. They are trying to say they are being clever, and being arrogant to Islam but they have nothing. They thought they could treat Islam as they have done with Christianity and disregard it but they cannot as;-

Islam is the truth and we have Allah's words-the Quran;-


[3:110] You are the best community ever raised among the people: you advocate righteousness and forbid evil, and you believe in GOD. If the followers of the scripture believed, it would be better for them. Some of them do believe, but the majority of them are wicked.

They think to lead us astray (is this not upon the reactions of these liars that they are happy for us to leave the truth);-

They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them, 4.89

They (think to) deceive Allâh and those who believe, while they only deceive themselves, and perceive (it) not!” al-Baqarah 2:9
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h-n
06-22-2010, 03:27 AM
Apologies, just a correction in point 13, the second paragraph its supposed to say;-

"They do not look for the life of the next world."
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h-n
06-22-2010, 04:16 AM
Considering the last thread I posted about "Prophet Jesus peace be upon him DOES NOT love the Christians!". I like to say that this thread is also not to me for the comparitive section. I have written it with Muslims specifically in mind.

People can understand that even when we teach our children about idol worship we don't start inviting idol worshippers to give their side of the story etc. We can simply talk to other Muslims about what Islam says about such and such.

Of course anyone can read, post etc. But I feel that the people who reject the truth have already been wasting time of Muslims in the comparitive section as it is.

Maybe this will thread will be moved or not. At least people can see from the writers prespective that I know it does not belong in the comparitive section as I am not actively asking people who reject the truth to give their side of the story which has been the same rubbish over and over again.

This thread is to help Muslims to listen to what Allah says in the Quran and not accept what sinners say when they reject the truth.
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Lynx
06-22-2010, 04:29 AM
I think you're trolling
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Asiyah3
06-22-2010, 08:23 AM
I don't think atheists seek the truth or guidance from Allah, thus no wonder for their absence of, or rejection of belief.
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Ramadhan
06-22-2010, 08:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx
I think you're trolling
If it were indeed trolling, this is an EXCELLENT troll!

so yeah

:D
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h-n
06-22-2010, 02:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by **muslimah**
I don't think atheists seek the truth or guidance from Allah, thus no wonder for their absence of, or rejection of belief.
What we know for a fact is that Allah is Most Merciful, Compassionate, he provides everyone with a fair test. He would never send someone to Hell because they "couldn't help rejecting the truth". Also they do reject the truth, its a fact, they know the truth. After they reject, reject, reject Islam their hearts get hardened as stated in the Quran. It never gets hardened because they reject something they did not underrstand. Then they increase and stay in their condition-as this is what they done to themselves and be sent to Hell. Allah DID NOT wrong them, but they wronged themselves. As per some verses from the Quran;-

11:119 (Asad) [all of them,] save those upon whom thy Sustainer has bestowed His grace. And to this end has He created them [all. But [as for those who refuse to avail themselves of divine guidance,] that word of thy Sustainer shall be fulfilled: "Most certainly will I fill hell with invisible beings as well as with humans, all together!"

35:37 (Asad) And in that [hell] they will cry aloud: “O our Sustainer! Cause us to come out [of this suffering]! We shall [henceforth] do good deeds, not such as we were wont to do [aforetime]!” [But We shall answer:] “Did We not grant you a life long enough so that whoever was willing to take thought could bethink himself? And [withal,] a war­ner had come unto you! Taste, then, [the fruit of your evil deeds]: for evildoers shall have none to succour them!”

39:32 (Asad) And who could be more wicked than he who invents lies about God? and gives the lie to the truth as soon as it has been placed before him? Is not hell the [proper] abode for all who deny the truth?
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h-n
06-22-2010, 02:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
If it were indeed trolling, this is an EXCELLENT troll!

so yeah

:D
Very funny, thanks. :smile:
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h-n
06-22-2010, 02:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx
I think you're trolling
Talking about what Allah has said that there is no such thing as Atheists is not trolling.

:popcorn:
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titus
06-23-2010, 03:27 AM
I see absolutely nothing in your post that shows that atheists do not exist.

Atheists are people that do not believe there is a God. Your posts says that those people are wrong. It does not say they don't exist. In fact the post says what will happen to atheists:" They have sent themselves to Hell."

How can you punish people that don't exist?

I like to say that this thread is also not to me for the comparitive section. I have written it with Muslims specifically in mind.
How does that make this more acceptable in the General forum? If you are going to compare Islam and Atheism, or post about how Islam views Atheism, then post it in the comparative religion forum (which is the purpose of that forum). Whether you have Muslims specifically in mind or not is irrelevant to which forum you post it in, unless there is a Muslim only forum then it would be appropriate to post it there.
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Ramadhan
06-23-2010, 05:16 AM
I see nothing wrong with the thread being in the general section. When I read the first post, it was clear to me that this is an attempt to provide muslims with more info about atheists from the perspective of muslims. The info cold also be useful for muslims when getting into discussion with atheists.
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Snowflake
06-23-2010, 06:18 AM
Excellent post mashaAllah! You are absolutely right. There is no such thing as a atheist. Before its (bodily) creation, EVERY soul testified that Allah is their Lord and this testimony is stamped on every soul ever created. I never thought about linking this to atheism before. Their souls know but their brains are paralysed and cannot feel Allah's existence. Your post was enlightening. JazakAllahu khayr.
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Trumble
06-23-2010, 07:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by h-n
I like to say that this thread is also not to me for the comparitive section. I have written it with Muslims specifically in mind.
Just as well. No atheist would take it seriously.
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h-n
06-23-2010, 08:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
I see absolutely nothing in your post that shows that atheists do not exist.

Atheists are people that do not believe there is a God. Your posts says that those people are wrong. It does not say they don't exist. In fact the post says what will happen to atheists:" They have sent themselves to Hell."

How can you punish people that don't exist?


How does that make this more acceptable in the General forum? If you are going to compare Islam and Atheism, or post about how Islam views Atheism, then post it in the comparative religion forum (which is the purpose of that forum). Whether you have Muslims specifically in mind or not is irrelevant to which forum you post it in, unless there is a Muslim only forum then it would be appropriate to post it there.
:threadapp

What you have said proves that you are just saying anything to try and put up an argument!

1. Allah said Atheists don't exist so they don't.

2. The fact is that Atheists just thought if I say that Allah does not exist they thought its easier for them to say they will not go to Hell, or be accountable to Allah-no difference to what the rest of the sinners are doing. Even in the past they rejected being brought back to life and the Day of Judgement.

3. They send themselves to Hell, Allah is not going to send someone to Hell if they were not to blame! So they know that Allah exists and they reject the truth! Allah is Most Merciful and Compassionate, he is not going to send someone to Hell for not have known the truth and the correct path! For you to not even understand this, when I have already written it so clearly, just shows that your not much of a thinker, as Atheists claim.

4. How can you punish people that don't exist? Again typical of their behaviour they think to say something which is clever-what is so clever about this statement?? Obviously people are calling themselves Atheists -I am using that word to talk about them but what is absolute is that they are all liars, liars and liars!

5. Also that they already reject Islam, even before reading and understanding it! So they are already rejecting Islam for the life of this world. As soon as any sinner hears about Allah and the Day of Judgement they turn away to look at the life of this world.

6. This is definitely not for the comparitive section!

7. Atheism is nothing to Islam.

8. Why would you ask my Muslim brothers and sisters to use their short amount of time in this world to waste it on Atheists if they refuse to listen to the truth??? You talk about freedom, but now you tell Muslims what they should be doing?

9. I'm talking to Muslims, I'm in a Muslim forum. Anyone can post anywhere, but my posts are written for them in mind. Of course its relevant-how pathetic to even that it is not so. Again typical of sinners to say anything to try and make it look like they have a sound argument when you have nothing.

10. For me, I would be treating you as a liar, liar and a liar, so you wouldn't want me in the comparitive section.
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h-n
06-23-2010, 08:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
I see nothing wrong with the thread being in the general section. When I read the first post, it was clear to me that this is an attempt to provide muslims with more info about atheists from the perspective of muslims. The info cold also be useful for muslims when getting into discussion with atheists.
Thank-you, your absolutely right.
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h-n
06-23-2010, 08:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
Excellent post mashaAllah! You are absolutely right. There is no such thing as a atheist. Before its (bodily) creation, EVERY soul testified that Allah is their Lord and this testimony is stamped on every soul ever created. I never thought about linking this to atheism before. Their souls know but their brains are paralysed and cannot feel Allah's existence. Your post was enlightening. JazakAllahu khayr.
Thank-you, your welcome.
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h-n
06-23-2010, 08:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
Just as well. No atheist would take it seriously.

They don't take heed to the message provided by all the Prophets Lut, Noah, Jesus, Moses, Job, Muhammad, Ibrahim peace be upon them. We certainly would not care for what they take "seriously", which frankly is nothing but for the life of this world.

They are the same as any sinful people, they reject Islam, and try to quote any information to say they are being smarter when they are not. They think to even fool Muslims in thinking of leaving Islam. Doing the same as sinful people in the past-why be bothered about trying to get Muslims to be unsure of being religious? The reaction that they are always hopeful, being satisified like any sinner for a person to leave Islam! The fools!

They were able to treat Christianity that way as it was wrong, but they will NEVER be able to do that with Islam as the message is the truth!
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titus
06-23-2010, 12:58 PM
I am using that word to talk about them but what is absolute is that they are all liars, liars and liars!
If they believe what they are saying then they are not liars. They are simply wrong.

For instance, if I believe that today is Wednesday when it is really Thursday, and I tell someone that it is Wednesday then I am not lying. I am simply wrong.

Allah said Atheists don't exist so they don't.
Where did he say that? I read your original post again and I do not see it.

In fact, you posted "[46:34] The day the disbelievers are introduced to the Hellfire, they will be asked, "Is this not the truth?" They will answer, "Yes indeed, by our Lord." He will say, "Then suffer the retribution for your disbelief."

Is this not Allah saying that there are Atheists, since that is what a disbeliever is?

According to your beliefs all atheists will later come to know the truth and not be atheists any more, but that does not mean they do not exist now.

Someone can claim that since there is no God that Islam does not exist, or Christianity. That would be ridiculous, because the ultimate truth is not what defines these beliefs. A Muslim is still a Muslim whether or not there is a God, and an atheist is still an atheist whether or not there is a God.

Atheism is nothing to Islam.
Then why post about it? You say one thing, then your actions prove different.

I'm talking to Muslims, I'm in a Muslim forum. Anyone can post anywhere, but my posts are written for them in mind. Of course its relevant-how pathetic to even that it is not so. Again typical of sinners to say anything to try and make it look like they have a sound argument when you have nothing.
When I read the first post, it was clear to me that this is an attempt to provide muslims with more info about atheists from the perspective of muslims. The info cold also be useful for muslims when getting into discussion with atheists.
Then the Da'wah section would be the most relevant since the purpose of this topic is to help Muslims deal with Atheists.

Although continually calling everyone who disagrees with you liars and fools is a strange way of getting your point across.
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Muslimeen
06-23-2010, 02:12 PM
Especially on a sinking ship, its "OH MY GOD".
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h-n
06-23-2010, 02:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
If they believe what they are saying then they are not liars. They are simply wrong.

For instance, if I believe that today is Wednesday when it is really Thursday, and I tell someone that it is Wednesday then I am not lying. I am simply wrong.



Where did he say that? I read your original post again and I do not see it.

In fact, you posted "[46:34] The day the disbelievers are introduced to the Hellfire, they will be asked, "Is this not the truth?" They will answer, "Yes indeed, by our Lord." He will say, "Then suffer the retribution for your disbelief."

Is this not Allah saying that there are Atheists, since that is what a disbeliever is?

According to your beliefs all atheists will later come to know the truth and not be atheists any more, but that does not mean they do not exist now.

Someone can claim that since there is no God that Islam does not exist, or Christianity. That would be ridiculous, because the ultimate truth is not what defines these beliefs. A Muslim is still a Muslim whether or not there is a God, and an atheist is still an atheist whether or not there is a God.

Then why post about it? You say one thing, then your actions prove different.


Then the Da'wah section would be the most relevant since the purpose of this topic is to help Muslims deal with Atheists.

Although continually calling everyone who disagrees with you liars and fools is a strange way of getting your point across.

Atheists, idol worshippers etc are liars. Anyone who does not agree with the message of Islam passed down by all the Prophets are liars. Even Allah has already stated they reject the truth.

I have never said Islam believes that Atheists will come to know the truth, they already know.

What else are we going to say to sinful people in the next world? We already know their answer, but we are still going to question them, after all the rubbish in this world, of course we are going to say it in front of their faces when they are dead;-

1. Is this not the truth now?
2. Aren't you going to reject the fact that Muhammad peace be upon him is a Prophet of Allah?
3. Aren't you going to say that Allah does not exist?
4. Don't you want to make any cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him?
5. Aren't you going to say Islam is evil?
6. Did not warners come to you? And they will reply yes and then the angels will say to them have your reward in Hell.
7. Everytime they ask to leave hell the angel will ask them did not a warner come to you, even they already know the answer they are going to ask it the inhabitants of the fire will say yes, then the angel would say then have this reward for your evil deeds.

The fact is that Allah would not send someone to Hell if it was not your fault. He does not wrong anyone, they wrong themselves. No one is going to Hell and say they couldn't help being lewd, they couldn't help killing people, or couldn't help saying that Allah does not exist (which is totally an awful thing to say).

Allah is not going to call sinners clever and he has already said that you are liars as you are rejecting the truth, even in the Quran its states;-

2:170 (Asad) But when they are told, "Follow what God has bestowed from on high," some answer, "Nay, we shall follow [only] that which we found our forefathers believing in and doing." Why, even if their forefathers did not use their reason at all, and were devoid of all guidance?

Even Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him was not accepting the idol worshippers side of the story that it was understandable why they were commiting idol worship when they are worshipping something that does not benefit them.

My intentions;-

The purpose of all my threads is to help Muslims in their tests in this world and being concerned about them being strong in Islam to face the Major signs of the Day of Judgement, when the Dajjal (anti-christ) arrives etc, and of course helping them to save themselves from the fires of Hell. They can certainly use whatever I'm saying to help provide Dawah to Atheists etc.


Anyone of course can read my posts and post themselves etc. There is no need to keep on saying were my threads should belong, it does not belong to Dawah as I am not actively talking about getting non-Muslims to repent, and not in the comparitive section as I am not actively asking for the opinions of non-Muslims. I already have spent time with non-Muslims.

Please note that even at the time of the Dajjal the Muslims won't be having this kind of dialogue with non-Muslims, and they will not get away with saying at that time that homosexuality is acceptable etc, there is a calamity and we are going through the Major signs of the Day of Judgement. So I am concentrating on the Muslims now. As explained in the "Major signs of the Day of Judgement" and the "Collapse of these countries" threads. Even Christians accept that only one religion will be acceptable, when the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him comes back and of course we are saying its Islam.

If you were worried about people facing the Dajjal (anti-christ) etc, then you don't want anyone to fool your Muslim brothers and sisters, your children etc. You would want them to be strong in Islam.

You have some Muslims concentrating on talking to non-Muslims and you have others being concerned about Muslims. I am doing the latter, I pray that my Muslim brothers and sisters remain steadfast in Islam. If you ask questions about Islam, no problem. We are all happy to answer, but I being direct and formal and being to the point. We don't know when we are going to die, so I'm not in idle talk, my Muslim brothers and sisters hopefully understand that. I am not here to laugh, offend people personally, if I wanted to I would have wrote a comedy sketch show. I will NEVER listen to them over what Allah has already stated they are liars, liars and liars of what they utter.
Reply

Gabriel Ibn Yus
06-23-2010, 02:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by h-n
They all know that Allah exists!

Allah has already stated in the Quran so many times, that people are denying the truth, he never said that they denying Islam because they didn’t think it was true.

98:6 (Asad) Verily, those who [despite all evidence] are bent on denying the truth - [be they] from among the followers of earlier revelation or from among those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God - will find themselves in the fire of hell, therein to abide: they are the worst of all creatures.

Saying that Allah does not exist;-

1. They try and deny Islam and say to themselves they are better at thinking, when they are far astray.

They ask were is the proof that Allah exists, then they talk about evolution;-
Even in the Quran, Allah has already provided the answer that he has created Males and females. They talk of evolution then what also explains how people are created in the womb-do they call that fast evolution in 9 months. Are they saying that cells get together and have a conversation saying to each other;-

- you’ll be a Male and you can be the female??

- male will be created to produce the sperm and the female would be created to produce the egg?
- the cells are organising themselves saying you’ll be the heart, lung, and I’ll be the stomach etc?

- they are creating the blood vessels and already arranging what is required?

It is absolutely impossible for cells to clump together and then look at the bigger picture of how to be a person. Allah is the Creator, and still fashions the babies in the wombs to be people. Even for them to say that the evolution started ages ago, but so many creatures have been created, even at the same time. Even if they were to talk about the first life form it still does not explain how they fashioned into so many creatures. There is of course reference that Allah used the soils in this world to create humans which is why they get confused when they say we are the same family and related, but we are not.

-they are asking us to disbelieve when Allah has already asked them that if they really are so truthful then right a verse like the Quran which would mean that they can bring it on the Day of Judgement and save themselves from the fires of Hell if they are truthful, why they cannot even create a fly. When they are messing around with cells etc, they are already using what Allah has provided and not created their own.

Saying that he cannot have created ;-

2. When Allah says "Be!" then it is, what else did they expect, that God get a hammer, and some nails and start putting pieces together?

Following those that are not better then the Prophets;-

3. They say they are clever because they are quoting this and that from this person, when the people they are quoting are not better then the Prophets! Are they going to say that Richard Dawkins is better then Prophet Jesus peace be upon him? Whey are they so quick to follow after people who are nothing in comparison to the Prophets? Its because they look for the life of this world. Why did Richard Dawkins put up a poster -there probably is no God, so live your life-so he is already saying that don’t believe in Allah so you can enjoy your life in this world! Why would he have to say that to people if it wasn’t connected about non-Muslims looking for the life of this world?

We would never listen to someone over the best of people -the Prophets Ibrahim, Jesus, Muhammad, Noah, Lut, Job, Salih, Joseph peace be upon them etc.

Scientists;-

4. They quote Science, thinking its clever. Allah has stated in the Quran that this world is limited, So why do Scientists go after something that they will never be part of or their children. Don’t bother quoting caring about people, if they really cared about people they would spend time with people more, and providing the money to the poor.

- It is like a person who wants to copy off actors-he wants the same respect he gets, so he becomes one,

- It is like a person who wants to be a footballer to copy off the other footballers, so to be treated like they are.

-they become scientists to copy off the other Scientists, to be treated with respect and people would think they are clever.

- the scientist were rejecting the Christianity in the past to be arrogant to religion (as explained a bit about the test in “Satan refusing to prostrate thread”. As soon as people talked more about Islam, people wanted to treat Islam like they have done with Christianity by saying we don’t accept science so help them to attack Islam but they could not as we have no problems with learning about the world around us.

-they are disgusting do they not think we are happy for Allah to have created us and fashioned us, where is the dignity in saying so and so has messed around with your egg, and then implanted it back into your Mother. We don't want others to mess around with how we are, our dignity is with Allah. They deprive their children of dignity, but yet call themselves better.

- they will not set foot on Jupiter etc, and they would not be able to leave this galaxy.

- so there are evil people who look for the life of this world to achieve for them attainable goals like getting a car, a house, but the scientist already know they are going after something that they never will have -which makes them more stupid, then the masses!

- why is it that the Scientist want to be remembered when they are dead more then there work. There are Scientist who are writing any theories to lay claim to them, so when they are dead if a future generation finds out if they were right, they will get the credit! Not writing down theories, hypothesis that they themselves can prove.

- even in Medicine only evil people would think about organ donation, to think up the idea of cutting someone else up and taking their organs, even Allah said;-
Thou wilt indeed find them, of all people, most greedy of life,-even more than the idolaters: Each one of them wishes He could be given a life of a thousand years: But the grant of such life will not save him from (due) punishment. For Allah sees well all that they do. 2:96
They have not cured the organ just tossed it away.

- they go into fields they say in the name of Science so they can be arrogant, which explains why so many people are complaining that they are not looking seriously at the cases of ghosts, devils, parallel worlds. As the scientists know this would be a lot of hard work, and they don’t get a lot of credit for this work. Even if they found something, others would dismiss them as being mad. Even suggesting theories on these ideas of Devils actually existing-so they are being open-minded.

-why has science been trying to find out better ways of torturing someone??

-why has science been trying to find out better ways of killing people? If they really cared about people? And they say they do science to help people?

-even Scientists have said that is human nature to go around and find out what other things is in relation to them! So if you took them to another place, world, in the past, its about their relationship with them-they do not look at the relationship of Allah and his creation, but between themselves!

Aliens;-

5. They say they believe there is intelligent life on other planets, and yes Muslims do so too, and they are worshipping Allah, what would they do visit the aliens and tell them they don’t believe in Allah?? They already it has been normal for people to have religion, why don’t they think that these aliens would also have a religion-which is the same-Islam. The religion of Prophet Jesus, Muhammad, Ibrahim, Noah, Salih, David, Solomon peace be upon him.

Technology;-

6. They then talk about having televisions, mobiles, computers etc to show off. Well did not the people who were destroyed before them also show off to the religious? Have they not been destroyed?

- Like the story of babel that the people, this time do they not see that they are communication etc and they have been warned. They have seen so many natural disasters on their televisions etc. So whey they get on the Day of Judgement they cannot say they have not been warned.

- Do they think that Allah would leave them alone with their children when they do not teach anything about Islam?? If they did not have much communication is that all their children will be seeing is their lewd, unreligious behaviour?
Using other religion;-

Using other religion;-

7. They then try and throw anything at Islam saying that other religions claim they are correct, how can they say that when all the Prophets Noah, Ibrahim, Jesus, Muhammad peace be upon them etc have stated to worship the one God and remember the Day of Judgement and in Paradise and Hell. The Christians and the Jews don’t even bow down to Allah as the Prophets have done, don’t even sacrifice animals as the Prophets have done.

-in the Quran it states that the King Solomon peace be upon him had control of the winds the Jinn etc, now today they are saying that this was left out purposely from the bible-so were did Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him get this information as he could not read or write??

-they say we are copying off them, nay why shouldn’t Allah tell about the Prophets that he sent before to Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him? Even the Jews were questioning him to see if he was correct on information-none of them at that time said he was copying off someone or so and so.

-if we were copying off them then we would not have been successful to have spread Islam successfully around, if we copied off them then how did we finish idol worship in Saudi Arabia etc???

-typical sinners at that time, they are critical of Islam, but not of Hindus etc, they were happy to live with so much filth in Saudi Arabia at that time, but they had a problem with Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him?? They make excuses saying its about terrorism, nay they are liars, then why did they throw Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him in the fire when he was not attacking anyone? Why did they invade Prophet Lut peace be upon him when he did not hurt anyone? They are as Allah said denying the truth for they are being sinful people. Just in the “Freedom and evil acceptance” they are denying the truth so they can continue to be evil without having anyone being critical to them.

-their governments have been going around countries and have not been telling the population of what trouble they are causing and when there is trouble they run to the masses so they can get support-is not the USA saying to Iran we are prepared to attack you? Why are they saying this without talking to their population or gaining their permission? Its rather like a son causing trouble then running back home to his family for them to help him, but he is not telling that he caused it.

Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him marrying Ayesha;-

8. They talk about Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him marrying Ayesha, then they should bring an argument to that time, his companions, his wives, other people, the idol worshippers, the Jews, the Christians did not attack him at that time for marrying Ayesha. So who are they to attack him now??

Day of Judgement;-

9. They say that people believed in the Day of Judgement in the past, but it never happened. It does not matter when a person dies they will still stand on the Day of Judgement. Of course the people of Aad and Thamud also denyed of this in the past, and said they were going to be fine, but of course they are on the way to Hell.

Why is Allah testing us?

10. They ask why is Allah testing them, they are happy to try and prove to people, and show off to people, and try and be someone in this world, but they can’t bring themselves to answer why we have to prove ourselves as good people -which I already answered on the “Satan refusing to prostrate” thread. Aren't we happy with striving for Paradise and then happy with what we have done and with Allah's Merciful and being created so we know that he exists and we are enjoying what he has provided us with? Yes we are.

Lewd, homosexuals;-

11. They are happy to side with lewd people, homosexuals then the Prophets Ibrahim, Noah, Lut, David Muhammad peace be upon them etc? Then they are saying that they are clever for going against Islam, why do those homosexuals and lewd people make more sense to them?

Hell;

12. They ask why they should be sent to Hell if Allah is so Merciful, for them to be sent to Hell does not change the fact that Allah is Merciful. They have sent themselves to Hell. There is no difference to someone saying in Paradise we reject islam-what more proof do they need? That is why in apostasy there are no second chances you go to hell. If you were in Paradise and said you don’t accept Allah of course you deserve to be thrown out. Again the test is covered in “Satan refusing to prostrate”.

Islam the message that they are receiving today;-

13. Even the Christians are saying that Prophet Jesus peace be upon him will be coming back, we are not going to have another Prophet until these countries have finished and after the Dajjal. Islam is teaching them what they need to know and warning them, they are reacting back to Islam as a person would do to a Prophet, by being arrogant, ignorant, rejecting the truth even torturing believers.

Islam is doing what Christianity and Judaism could not do teach the whole world! As Christianity was worshipping idols and Jews were changing religion even now saying that there is no Hell. They do not look for the life of this world. Even Christians have admitted if it wasn’t for Islam people would not have spoken about Allah as much as they are doing today. They are being tested (as explained in the “Collapse of the countries today” thread.
They are not going to get another Prophet, they have Islam which has relayed the same message provided by all the Prophets.

On the Day of Judgement;-

14. So as above they are saying anything to try and say they going against Islam for a good reason, but they have nothing, even look at their faces, it actually that the are trying to convince themselves that Allah does not exist! Just like some females when they get their lewd behaviour acceptable, and say that its normal, when it is not and never will be.
If they say to you they disbelieve, then say to them to repeat it on the Day of Judgement-were Allah has stated in the Quran;-

[46:34] The day the disbelievers are introduced to the Hellfire, they will be asked, "Is this not the truth?" They will answer, "Yes indeed, by our Lord." He will say, "Then suffer the retribution for your disbelief."

-they will not want to stand with Richard Dawkin then,
-they will not want to stand with the homosexuals then.
-they will be saying;-

40:47 (Asad) AND LO! They [who in life were wont to deny the truth] will contend with one another in the fire [of the hereafter]; and then the weak will say unto those who had gloried in their arrogance, “Behold, we were but your followers: can you, then, relieve us of some [of our] share of this fire?”



No one will be saying to Allah on the Day of Judgement;-


1. Who are you?
2. Why are we here?
3. What is Hell?
4. I didn't know that homosexuality was a bad thing.
5. I didn't know that being lewd was wrong.


Do not believe their lies, they all know they are rejecting the truth and what is good.
They are doing the same as any other sinful person going against the good instead of evil, just as the people attacked the Prophet Lut, Ibrahim peace be upon him instead of standing away from the evil and repenting. They are trying to say they are being clever, and being arrogant to Islam but they have nothing. They thought they could treat Islam as they have done with Christianity and disregard it but they cannot as;-

Islam is the truth and we have Allah's words-the Quran;-


[3:110] You are the best community ever raised among the people: you advocate righteousness and forbid evil, and you believe in GOD. If the followers of the scripture believed, it would be better for them. Some of them do believe, but the majority of them are wicked.

They think to lead us astray (is this not upon the reactions of these liars that they are happy for us to leave the truth);-

They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them, 4.89

They (think to) deceive Allâh and those who believe, while they only deceive themselves, and perceive (it) not!” al-Baqarah 2:9
So true, beautiful post.
Reply

h-n
06-23-2010, 02:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslimeen
Especially on a sinking ship, its "OH MY GOD".
:clever:Very funny.
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h-n
06-23-2010, 02:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Ibn Yus
So true, beautiful post.
Thank-you. :)
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Asiyah3
06-23-2010, 03:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
How does that make this more acceptable in the General forum? If you are going to compare Islam and Atheism, or post about how Islam views Atheism, then post it in the comparative religion forum (which is the purpose of that forum). Whether you have Muslims specifically in mind or not is irrelevant to which forum you post it in, unless there is a Muslim only forum then it would be appropriate to post it there.
What's your problem? I'm very much enjoying her posts masha'Allah. You're entitled to your opinion. If you have a problem with this thread, no one is forcing you or other atheists to join. It's not meant for you in the first place.

Sister h-n, I hope you'll continue posting in the general section insha'Allah. Excellent post!
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h-n
06-23-2010, 04:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by **muslimah**
What's your problem? I'm very much enjoying her posts masha'Allah. You're entitled to your opinion. However, if you have a problem with this thread no one is forcing you or other atheists to join. It's not meant for you in the first place.

Sister h-n, I hope you'll continue posting in the general section insha'Allah. Excellent post!
Thank-you, I appreciate that. I notice that this is your last day? Maybe its to do with other commitments in your life, which of course you can't get addicted to the forum, I thought I wouldn't join another forum. But I thought to myself, I don't know when I'm going to leave this world, and why don't I just write what I know on another website, so others can read it or not, if it helps them or not. Allah also rewards on your intentions.

If you do decide not to post more, just don't forget to come back and post anything that you'll think can help us. As you also get rewarded by Allah.

Take care of yourself, and whatever you do, may Allah keep you steadfast in Islam. :)
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Asiyah3
06-23-2010, 05:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by h-n
Thank-you, I appreciate that. I notice that this is your last day? Maybe its to do with other commitments in your life, which of course you can't get addicted to the forum, I thought I wouldn't join another forum. But I thought to myself, I don't know when I'm going to leave this world, and why don't I just write what I know on another website, so others can read it or not, if it helps them or not. Allah also rewards on your intentions.

If you do decide not to post more, just don't forget to come back and post anything that you'll think can help us. As you also get rewarded by Allah.

Take care of yourself, and whatever you do, may Allah keep you steadfast in Islam. :)
Thank you very much. :) Yes, it's my last day.

I'll soon apply to a university insha'Allah, which is very hard to get into, almost impossible in my case, but I'll give it a try. :D If Allah gets me accepted al-hamdulillah, I'll insha'Allah be back year in January. If I won't get accepted, I'll try to devote my time for Islam and try to increase my knowledge on Qur'aan and Sunnah. Allah knows best.

This is a great and beneficial forum, thanks to the members and staff. Now let's not derail the thread.. =)
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h-n
06-23-2010, 09:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by **muslimah**
Thank you very much. :) Yes, it's my last day.

I'll soon apply to a university insha'Allah, which is very hard to get into, almost impossible in my case, but I'll give it a try. :D If Allah gets me accepted al-hamdulillah, I'll insha'Allah be back year in January. If I won't get accepted, I'll try to devote my time for Islam and try to increase my knowledge on Qur'aan and Sunnah. Allah knows best.

This is a great and beneficial forum, thanks to the members and staff. Now let's not derail the thread.. =)
Insha'Allah for you to make it to University! Your right about not derailing the thread.
But thanks for letting us know that your not running away from us LOL.

Take care

Sister h-n. :muslimah:
Reply

titus
06-24-2010, 04:31 AM
2. Aren't you going to reject the fact that Muhammad peace be upon him is a Prophet of Allah?
I do not believe that Muhammad was a prophet of Allah. I am not a Muslim. that goes without saying.

4. Don't you want to make any cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him?
Umm, nope. Not at all. The question itself is insulting.

Is this some poor attempt to paint me as a Muslim hater? It seems you enjoy saying that anyone that does not agree with your beliefs is a liar, so interesting tactic to take. I guess you believe that if you make ludicrous statement like this that all Muslims will condone your treatment of non-Muslims?

5. Aren't you going to say Islam is evil?
Nope, I never have and never will. I will say, though, that there are Muslims who attempt to demonize anyone that disagrees with them. They are rude and give Islam a bad name, and there are those whose interpretations I disagree with, but I have nothing against the religion itself. Do you believe that anyone who is not a Muslim is inherently evil?

6. Did not warners come to you? And they will reply yes and then the angels will say to them have your reward in Hell.
Yes, such warners have come to me from multiple religions, all claiming the be the only truth.

I have never said Islam believes that Atheists will come to know the truth, they already know
So it is your contention that all Atheists actually believe in Islam, they just pretend not to?
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h-n
06-24-2010, 07:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
I do not believe that Muhammad was a prophet of Allah. I am not a Muslim. that goes without saying.



Umm, nope. Not at all. The question itself is insulting.

Is this some poor attempt to paint me as a Muslim hater? It seems you enjoy saying that anyone that does not agree with your beliefs is a liar, so interesting tactic to take. I guess you believe that if you make ludicrous statement like this that all Muslims will condone your treatment of non-Muslims?



Nope, I never have and never will. I will say, though, that there are Muslims who attempt to demonize anyone that disagrees with them. They are rude and give Islam a bad name, and there are those whose interpretations I disagree with, but I have nothing against the religion itself. Do you believe that anyone who is not a Muslim is inherently evil?



Yes, such warners have come to me from multiple religions, all claiming the be the only truth.



So it is your contention that all Atheists actually believe in Islam, they just pretend not to?
You obviously just spend your time, giving your pathetic views, and yet it was obvious you did not understand the basics of Islam.

Typical sinners, they try and say they are being intelligent, and post anything, obviously wasting your time as you should have learnt about the basics of Islam. I suggest you spend less time posting nonsense and more time reading about Islam.

All Atheists know that Allah exists, if you deny this then say it on the Day of Judgement!
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titus
06-24-2010, 02:51 PM
All Atheists know that Allah exists, if you deny this then say it on the Day of Judgement!
\

Don't you mean that you believe all atheists will know that Allah exists on the Day of Judgment? Surely you do not mean to say that they all believe it now.

If you are basing everything on this "Day of Judgment" then I suppose you could start another thread saying that Christians don't exist or that Jews don't exist.
Typical sinners, they try and say they are being intelligent, and post anything, obviously wasting your time
Funny how I answer your questions and you ignore mine, insult me, and make false allegations.

I never said anything about intelligent (or more intelligent than you), I never said I wanted to draw a cartoon of your Prophet (ludicrous allegation), nor has anyone here insulted Islam.

If you have difficulty rationally discussing your views (without resorting to insults and false allegations) with people that don't agree with you then I suggest you find a forum in which they are not allowed to post.

Peace
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h-n
06-24-2010, 10:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
\

Don't you mean that you believe all atheists will know that Allah exists on the Day of Judgment? Surely you do not mean to say that they all believe it now.

If you are basing everything on this "Day of Judgment" then I suppose you could start another thread saying that Christians don't exist or that Jews don't exist.


Funny how I answer your questions and you ignore mine, insult me, and make false allegations.

I never said anything about intelligent (or more intelligent than you), I never said I wanted to draw a cartoon of your Prophet (ludicrous allegation), nor has anyone here insulted Islam.

If you have difficulty rationally discussing your views (without resorting to insults and false allegations) with people that don't agree with you then I suggest you find a forum in which they are not allowed to post.

Peace
That is exactly what I am saying, they all KNOW that Allah exists right now.

You also treat "Atheism" like if its something knew, the people at the time of Prophet Noah, Lut, Ibrahim peace be upon them etc rejected Allah and the Day of Judgement. They all knew that Allah existed, they only went against Islam to enjoy themselves in this world, and be lewd and not be concerned about the consquences, so they just carried on and rejected Islam.

You have been here since for how long??
You have proven that you are interested in attacking Islam that is why;-

1. You are trying to make it look like Islam does not agree that everyone knows that Allah exists, so to try and justify Atheism to Muslims. Which is why no matter how many times I said that people who reject Allah are lying, your not accepting this answer, when you cannot change what Allah has taught us, you cannot change the Quran, or what the Prophets have taught in the past. If you appraoched Richard Dawkins on the Day of Judgement and if he has not repented, he will say that he lied in this lifetime. If you went to the people who rejected Prophet Noah, Ibrahim, Lut peace be upon them etc, they will all say they lied in this lifetime.. Even the van Gogh person who was critical of Islam, and was killed, is saying he lied in this lifetime. They are all liars!

2. you have rejected Islam, even before reading the Quran, even the people rejected the Prophet's message as soon as he said it the first time to worship the one God and rememeber the Day of Judgement. That is because they knew they had to give up on their lewd lifestyle etc.

3. Typical sinful person, your just throwing anything at Islam, first you try and support Atheism, then you go into a thread about Christians to support Chrisitanity! As long as anything is against Islam you are happy with siding with them!

4. Of course your not being intelligent, you've been on this forum for a while, and you haven't learnt, what we expect our Muslim children to know about sinful people in the next world regretting and accepting that they lied about their actions. You have proven you were only concerned with attacking Islam, and not learning about it.

5. Is this your freedom that they talk about in the west? Is this how your going to spend the next couple of months too? Living in stupidity and not learning anything. At least I know that if I am going to talk about something, I would learn about it first.

6. Is this what you going to say to Allah on the Day of Judgement? To not to resort throwing you into Hell as your a sinful person? Of course talking as a sinner, you mention that I am not happy that you are not agreeing with me personally-simplier for Atheists to talk like that to attack people.

The fact is that I am heeding what Allah has taught me, so you are not agreeing with what Prophets Jesus, Noah, Lut, Ibrahim peace be upon him has taught you. So if you don't repent then you will go to Hell. The people of Prophet Lut, Noah peace be upon him did not have a choice, if you don't repent your not going to sit here in a merry way. They were destroyed and your countries too are coming to an end.

So of course your stupid, no one is going to call you intelligent for going to Hell, if you don't repent!
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titus
06-24-2010, 10:44 PM
You have proven that you are interested in attacking Islam that is why;-
You obviously haven't read my posts, or at least did not understand them.

I do not attack Islam. I do voice when I disagree with attitudes or actions that Muslims post here.

You are trying to make it look like Islam does not agree that everyone knows that Allah exists
Because I have yet to see you post anything that says that everyone knows that Allah exists. I have seen you post that Islam teaches that everyone will know in the future, but nothing that says they all know now. I know for a fact that I don't believe in Allah, no matter how much you may want to believe different. No, I am not lying.

you have rejected Islam, even before reading the Quran
Again you make assumptions about things you have no inkling of. I have read the Quran. (and I still don't want to make cartoons about Muhammad)

Typical sinful person, your just throwing anything at Islam, first you try and support Atheism, then you go into a thread about Christians to support Chrisitanity!
I was not supporting Christianity, I was pointing out hypocrisy.

So of course your stupid, no one is going to call you intelligent for going to Hell, if you don't repent!
You probably shouldn't discuss such things with non-Muslims and should leave such discussions to other Muslims who aren't so rude. There are many examples of nice, polite and intelligent Muslims on this forum who can intelligently discuss differences of opinions and beliefs without resorting to insults. You aren't one of them, apparently.
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h-n
06-24-2010, 11:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
You obviously haven't read my posts, or at least did not understand them.

I do not attack Islam. I do voice when I disagree with attitudes or actions that Muslims post here.



Because I have yet to see you post anything that says that everyone knows that Allah exists. I have seen you post that Islam teaches that everyone will know in the future, but nothing that says they all know now. I know for a fact that I don't believe in Allah, no matter how much you may want to believe different. No, I am not lying.



Again you make assumptions about things you have no inkling of. I have read the Quran. (and I still don't want to make cartoons about Muhammad)



I was not supporting Christianity, I was pointing out hypocrisy.



You probably shouldn't discuss such things with non-Muslims and should leave such discussions to other Muslims who aren't so rude. There are many examples of nice, polite and intelligent Muslims on this forum who can intelligently discuss differences of opinions and beliefs without resorting to insults. You aren't one of them, apparently.
It is 100% that Athiests do know that Allah exists, even in the Quran Allah has said they denyed the "truth", if you read the Quran then you should know that Atheism as people call it is nothing knew, people rejected the fact that they will also be brought back to life. They rejected the fact that they will be destroyed, even sinners saying were is the punishment of God if you are truthful.


I already told you its a fact that your picking and choosing what is fact. As stated the sinful people are still questioned, we don't care that we know their responses, we will see their reactions, such as Bush, Cheney, leaders of Israel etc, if they have not repented, we will see their reaction when they are asked on that Day is this not the truth and they will confirm that they are liars. Even in verses in the Quran about them going to to Hell the leaders will be saying to the people, you chose to join us we did not force you to be evil, when their people say take some of our burden away from us. They will be told clear proofs came to them. They are all liars and so are you!

As stated if you disagree, then say it on the Day of Judgement, we will all be there listening! No need to derail my threads.

Of course you have proven that you have not learnt, what even people teach Christian children that people rejected that Allah will punish them, and they were taken by the flood.

Why else do you think Allah killed the sinful people? Because they didn't have a brain?

Why else do you think that Allah is going to send them to Hell? Because they didn't have a brain?

You have absolutely shown your intentions on this forum, of just opposing Islam, for the sake of going against something that is good. Wasting Muslim's time too, talking about a lot of nonsense instead of learning about Islam properly, which why did you not learn this before? Also we only fight those who fight us.

All the Prophets that were sent, never respected sinner's behaviours were they were rejecting what Allah had taught them, to worship him and remember the Day of Judgement.

I did say this thread was written specifically for Muslims, so don't complain when I am direct, to the point, with my no nonsense attitude. Also go ahead and speak to my nice Muslim Brothers and Sisters. I don't have a problem with people not calling me nice etc. No matter what you say about me and them, just remember they are MY Muslim Brothers and Sisters ;D, and I am happy with them. :). So no need to go and do what the US does in rejecting Muslims that they don't like when they don't like what they hear etc.

Also do not bother replying, hopefully you mean it when you say you won't post anything to me. Go an open your own thread.
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Al-Indunisiy
06-25-2010, 03:09 AM
:sl:

It is 100% that Athiests do know that Allah exists, even in the Quran Allah has said they denyed the "truth", if you read the Quran then you should know that Atheism as people call it is nothing knew, people rejected the fact that they will also be brought back to life. They rejected the fact that they will be destroyed, even sinners saying were is the punishment of God if you are truthful.
Just to get this straight:

In your view how do atheists know that Allah exists?
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h-n
06-25-2010, 03:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Indunisiy
:sl:



Just to get this straight:

In your view how do atheists know that Allah exists?

1. Are you not a Muslim? So then there is no need to quote in my "view" as Islam is not just a personal view but from Allah.
2. Do you reject the fact that Allah provides a fair test? He will not throw someone into Hell if it was not there fault.
3 He has already stated that they reject the "truth", not something they thought was true.
4. When did any Prophet teach you that there will be Atheists and they don't know that Allah exists?
5. Allah has provided them with souls that know, and when they hear that there is only one God and the Day of Judgement, and in Paradise and Hell, they know this to be true.
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Lynx
06-25-2010, 03:32 AM
I don't want to encourage the troll here but in the slight chance that you're serious...you do realize your position is as absurd as saying 'pigs fly because the quran said so". (i know it does'nt).
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h-n
06-25-2010, 03:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx
I don't want to encourage the troll here but in the slight chance that you're serious...you do realize your position is as absurd as saying 'pigs fly because the quran said so". (i know it does'nt).

You can't tell the difference between a troll and a Muslim???

Also its typical of them today, they think that "Atheists" are new, when they rejected Allah, the Day of Judgement, that they will be brought back to life in the next world. Allah has taught us what they said, they are written in the Quran.

Typical this sinner, just uses any statement to say he is making a point, what kind of point is that, your taking about if a swine can fly, well Allah can do anything, But the fact is its already stated in the Quran, of the people of old who rejected Allah, the Day of Judgement, and that they were destroyed because of them rejecting the truth, refusing to repent, no matter how many times they were told.

What else do you think the Prophets were sent, they told people to repent on the first day, if they didn't know who God is why bother telling them to repent to him?? The fact is that they knew. Even quoting that their forefathers had mentioned of the fact that they would be brought back to life.

So thank-you for coming on this thread, to prove how people who reject the truth are o stupid, and that you have been wasting your time for not learning about Islam. We do not accept any sin. The Quran is the word of Allah, it is the truth. I absolutely see and accept that "Atheists" are liars.
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Al-Indunisiy
06-25-2010, 04:54 AM
:sl:

@h-n

To clarify what Lynx meant: He was just saying that your argument is absurd for him because it is just like insisting, for example: "Believe in Ahura Mazda because [insert name of Zoroastrian sacred text] says so!"
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Lynx
06-25-2010, 06:09 AM
okay. well think what you want. next time you want to give dawah to an atheist start off by first telling him that he really isn't an atheist and he should stop lying about being one. if he asks why you don't think he's an atheist just reply by saying the Qu'ran says atheists don't exist. anyone with half a brain will just walk away at that point thinking you're a crazy person o.o

in fact i want to add that the OP is by far the most irrational thing i have ever read. I think it borders insanity.
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h-n
06-25-2010, 02:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx
okay. well think what you want. next time you want to give dawah to an atheist start off by first telling him that he really isn't an atheist and he should stop lying about being one. if he asks why you don't think he's an atheist just reply by saying the Qu'ran says atheists don't exist. anyone with half a brain will just walk away at that point thinking you're a crazy person o.o

in fact i want to add that the OP is by far the most irrational thing i have ever read. I think it borders insanity.
Give Dawah? I was talking to Muslims anyway, also I am well aware that Sinful people always expect good people to tell them to repent-so already knowing what they are supposed to do-worship the one God and remember the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell.

Also YES, the sinful people are liars! What did you learn all that time? What do you think happened all this time, that the Prophet Noah peace be upon him was saying to the sinful people that you speak the truth?? Of course the infidels are liars, they rejected the truth, never did they reject it saying that they did not understand that there is one God and the Day of Judgement and in Paradise and Hell.


Did you read somewhere that Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him told the sinners that they spoke the truth?

Also, you have already been warned, what do you expect for me to hold your hand? You have witnessed so many natural disasters, and they are on your record, and it will be held against you on that Day. There are so many people getting killed, sexually abused, and its inconsiderate of infidels to sit there and expect to be picked up and talk about Islam in their own sweet time. It reminds me of cases were there are infidels, like in Sierra Leone, no matter how much they abused, killed people, children going through rubbish, they will stand there and ask for attention! I mean do you think your going to be provided with attention so you can repent? That's why Muslims are correct and tough as well, even the magicians at Pharoah's court were not given attention-but they still repented! It wasn't a case of being nice to you first and then you repent, its your own relationship with Allah, that has nothing to do with me, you are to be grateful to him. Just like the kindness thread, we don't ask people just to sit there being kind to each other, we ask people to repent.

Choose any Prophet, any of them, if they came to this world, they would simply tell people to repent to Allah and heed the warnings of the Day of Judgement.

Also you have already heard this warning by me too! So you cannot delete it from your record, h-n told you the truth about worshipping the one God and the Day of Judgement, and you rejected it! Whenever you hear that warning, it is held against you on the Day of Judgement, even if you heard a child saying it.

Your calling what I have written insane? When you have proven that if you were alive;-

1. At the time of Prophet Noah peace be upon him you would have drowned,
2. At the time of Prophet Lut peace be upon him you would have been killed etc

The Prophets are the best of people, the bravest, most best in manners, and you rather listen to people like Jezebel, and homosexuals and lewd people, and people who reject Allah. Then stay in their company and go to Hell with them, that is your choice. The countries are being destroyed and the Day of Judgement is upon us.
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h-n
06-25-2010, 02:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Indunisiy
:sl:

@h-n

To clarify what Lynx meant: He was just saying that your argument is absurd for him because it is just like insisting, for example: "Believe in Ahura Mazda because [insert name of Zoroastrian sacred text] says so!"
Well yes, I accept the Quran, absolutely.

As stated in the thread anyway, infidels ignore the best of Men -the Prophets and follow after the sinful. They rather listen to sinful people rather then Prophet Ibrahim, Jesus, Noah, Lut peace be upon him etc.
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BoredAgnostic
06-25-2010, 05:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslimeen
Especially on a sinking ship, its "OH MY GOD".
Yep, just like when we say "Oh, go to Hell" in frustration..we literally want that person to burn in Hell and be tormented forever, too. /sarcasm

It's just traditional sayings if you didn't realize that already, but I do make the effort to say "Oh my goodness" so this "confusion" doesn't happen.
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h-n
09-18-2010, 06:49 PM
bump in reference to RIP thread.
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whitekitten
09-22-2010, 06:36 PM
Just because an atheist doesn't believe in a supreme being doesn't mean an atheist doesn't have any beliefs. If you feel comfortable with your own beliefs it shouldn't matter what other people do or do not believe.
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cat eyes
09-22-2010, 07:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by whitekitten
Just because an atheist doesn't believe in a supreme being doesn't mean an atheist doesn't have any beliefs. If you feel comfortable with your own beliefs it shouldn't matter what other people do or do not believe.
what is the meaning of atheist to you then?
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czgibson
09-22-2010, 07:57 PM
Greetings,

Since there's been some time for people to reflect on this thread, have any of the Muslims here found any useful dawah ideas to present to atheists as a result of the approach we've seen here?

Peace
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Lynx
09-23-2010, 06:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cat eyes


what is the meaning of atheist to you then?
If I may interject, the meaning of atheist is someone who does not believe in a God(s). Other than that, an atheist could believe in fairies or goblins and it wouldn't matter. Upon reflection I understand the feelings of the OP. The OP clearly understands that God shouldn't send anyone to Hell on the basis of not believing in something. It would be like going to hell for not believing in some principle of String Theory. Belief isn't an action one simply chooses or doesn't choose to do. However, instead of taking the logical approach and looking at this as a problem in Islam, the OP instead bites the bullet and denies the existence of atheists altogether; all atheists are liars and they secretly believe in God but don't admit it so therefore God does not have a legitimate reason to send atheists to hell. Grasping for air...
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cat eyes
09-23-2010, 07:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx
If I may interject, the meaning of atheist is someone who does not believe in a God(s). Other than that, an atheist could believe in fairies or goblins and it wouldn't matter. Upon reflection I understand the feelings of the OP. The OP clearly understands that God shouldn't send anyone to Hell on the basis of not believing in something. It would be like going to hell for not believing in some principle of String Theory. Belief isn't an action one simply chooses or doesn't choose to do. However, instead of taking the logical approach and looking at this as a problem in Islam, the OP instead bites the bullet and denies the existence of atheists altogether; all atheists are liars and they secretly believe in God but don't admit it so therefore God does not have a legitimate reason to send atheists to hell. Grasping for air...
ok so my understanding is atheists believe in fairies and goblins but rather not believe in god ermm where do these fairies come from then? have u seen a goblin ?

but don't atheists have to see something to believe it.

wow. i never knew this about atheists that they believe in other things without seeing it:laugh:
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glo
09-23-2010, 08:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx
... all atheists are liars and they secretly believe in God but don't admit it so therefore God does not have a legitimate reason to send atheists to hell. Grasping for air...
How can you possibly make such a sweeping assertion? It's a silly statement. :hmm:

As for the suggestion that the term atheist relates to 'no god(s)' and that therefore atheists could (in theory) believe in all manner of other things (such as fairies); that may be possible, but isn't very likely.
I would agree more with cat eyes in that atheists tend to trust what can been observed or scientifically proven. In the absence of such proof an atheists is more likely to assume that it (whatever it is that cannot be proven) is more likely not to exist (unless scientific proof can be found at a later stage).

If any atheist reads my statement, I would be interested to hear whether they agree in principle.
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Latitudinarian
09-23-2010, 08:38 PM
Wow, I've got to lurk here more often! The absurdity of OP claims is comical.
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Lynx
09-23-2010, 11:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
How can you possibly make such a sweeping assertion? It's a silly statement. :hmm:
I was talking about the reasoning employed by the OP. I recognize the silliness of what h-n is saying. the OP, instead of admitting that God is unjust for sending people to Hell merely because of what they believe, instead chooses to deny the existence of atheists altogether! this way God is not really sending people to hell for their lack of belief but more because of their denial of some innate belief. unfortunately , if the OP talks to more people, she might realize that some people genuinely just don't believe in God or Islam. I hope that clears up what I was saying.

As for the suggestion that the term atheist relates to 'no god(s)' and that therefore atheists could (in theory) believe in all manner of other things (such as fairies); that may be possible, but isn't very likely.
I would agree more with cat eyes in that atheists tend to trust what can been observed or scientifically proven. In the absence of such proof an atheists is more likely to assume that it (whatever it is that cannot be proven) is more likely not to exist (unless scientific proof can be found at a later stage).

If any atheist reads my statement, I would be interested to hear whether they agree in principle.
Well the fact that an atheist can believe in anything so long as it's not God is true by definition. However, your statement that atheists are more likely to follow scientific evidence is an empirical matter and i don't know if that's true or not or even likely. I personally think you're peddling a common stereotype about atheists.
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glo
09-24-2010, 05:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx
I was talking about the reasoning employed by the OP. I recognize the silliness of what h-n is saying. the OP, instead of admitting that God is unjust for sending people to Hell merely because of what they believe, instead chooses to deny the existence of atheists altogether!
Thank you for your explanation.
I clearly completely misunderstood you.



However, your statement that atheists are more likely to follow scientific evidence is an empirical matter and i don't know if that's true or not or even likely. I personally think you're peddling a common stereotype about atheists.
That's possible.
All the more reason to invite some atheists here to tell us what they think.
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Tyrion
09-24-2010, 05:59 AM
This thread just makes me sad... T_T
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Ramadhan
09-24-2010, 06:45 AM
My question to atheists:

Why is it that you don't believe in the existence of the creator of the universe (which is the simplest explanation and logically perfect) of which you claim there is no scientific proof, and yet accept the only alternative: the universe has always existed (has no beginning) which is proven scientifically and logically not possible?
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Latitudinarian
09-24-2010, 04:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
My question to atheists:

Why is it that you don't believe in the existence of the creator of the universe (which is the simplest explanation and logically perfect) of which you claim there is no scientific proof, and yet accept the only alternative: the universe has always existed (has no beginning) which is proven scientifically and logically not possible?
As a deist, I do believe that a supreme being created the universe. My belief in God is one that appeals to my intuition but, by no means, can I make the assertion that this is the simplest and most logical explanation for nature. Most atheists don't claim to know there is no conventional God, only to doubt the existence of such a being based on the lack of evidence for it. Sure, I do know some atheists who think that there may be a single entity behind all things in nature but the difference between myself and them is that I, and most theists, go one step further in our faith that said entity is actually a thinking being.

It's unfair to presume all atheists share the belief that universe (or multi-verse, for those who think there are more than one) has always existed. The prevailing opinion of the scientific community, comprised mostly of atheists, is that the Big Bang is the most likely explanation for the universe although there is a relatively new theory that suggests a cyclic universe.

Even if there were some scientific way to prove that a supreme-creator being is at the heart of the universe, most atheists would be more likely to become deists, like myself, than followers of the prophets since there is no evidence supporting the supernatural claims of scripture.
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Ramadhan
09-24-2010, 05:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Latitudinarian
As a deist, I do believe that a supreme being created the universe. My belief in God is one that appeals to my intuition but, by no means, can I make the assertion that this is the simplest and most logical explanation for nature. Most atheists don't claim to know there is no conventional God, only to doubt the existence of such a being based on the lack of evidence for it. Sure, I do know some atheists who think that there may be a single entity behind all things in nature but the difference between myself and them is that I, and most theists, go one step further in our faith that said entity is actually a thinking being.

It's unfair to presume all atheists share the belief that universe (or multi-verse, for those who think there are more than one) has always existed. The prevailing opinion of the scientific community, comprised mostly of atheists, is that the Big Bang is the most likely explanation for the universe although there is a relatively new theory that suggests a cyclic universe.

Even if there were some scientific way to prove that a supreme-creator being is at the heart of the universe, most atheists would be more likely to become deists, like myself, than followers of the prophets since there is no evidence supporting the supernatural claims of scripture.
I understand your position, which similar to agnostic.,

It is atheists' belief (who do not believe in the existence of the creator) that I do not understand.

Thanks for explaining your belief though.
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*Hana*
09-24-2010, 05:20 PM
Salam Alaikum:

My father was an Athiest through and through. He simply did not believe in a supreme being in any way, shape or form. He never gave much thought as to how the universe was created and didn't care. He lived his life an athiest and that was that. He had a miserable childhood being abused by foster families and Nuns in an orphanage. All which lead to his lack of belief. This being said, my father was a wonderful man who loved his family and would help anyone that asked for it. He was loved and respected by all that knew him. Meaning he wasn't a cranky, bitter man. lol

So, I don't think an Athiest has to necessarily believe in anything else, they just very simply believe God does not exist.

Wasalam,
Hana
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Latitudinarian
09-24-2010, 06:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
I understand your position, which similar to agnostic.,

It is atheists' belief (who do not believe in the existence of the creator) that I do not understand.

Thanks for explaining your belief though.

My position and the atheist's position differ in that I to adhere to the belief in an unknown on faith while the atheist reserves his/her adherence to those things which are substantive. I think that calling myself agnostic doesn't properly describe my position since an element of doubt is inescapable. Agnosticism is somewhat ambiguous in that almost all people, whether religious or not, don't know with certainty whether there is a God or not. It's impossible to know for certain but I still claim to believe. Most atheists will say that there probably is no God rather than there is no God. For practical purposes, it's only those who don't claim to believe one way or the other that ought to be considered agnostic.
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Lynx
09-24-2010, 07:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
My question to atheists:

Why is it that you don't believe in the existence of the creator of the universe (which is the simplest explanation and logically perfect) of which you claim there is no scientific proof, and yet accept the only alternative: the universe has always existed (has no beginning) which is proven scientifically and logically not possible?

1. The existence of the creator of the universe is not logically perfect unless you have a special proof that every other logician and philosopher has missed for the last 2000 years. 2. The only alternative isn't that the universe had to have always existed. I hope that settles your bewilderment.
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