He cannot lower his gaze because there are too many women

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:
i dont really like posting things like this, as i dont feel its my place to :hmm: but for the sake of benefit.

He cannot lower his gaze because there are too many women

I live in a non-Muslim country and I cannot lower my gaze because there are too many uncovered women around me.

Praise be to Allaah.

Lowering the gaze is of two types, one which a person can do and which he has no excuse for not doing, which means not repeatedly looking at women or deliberately looking at them. This is something that he can do, and it is obligatory upon him, I mean not repeatedly looking at women or deliberately looking at them, because it is within his capabilities, and it makes no difference whether he is in a country where there is a great deal of unveiling or not.

The second type is something that a person cannot avoid, and it is an accidental glance, where he sees a woman but he does not look repeatedly at her or look deliberately; rather he carries on his way. This will not harm him and he is not sinning thereby, because it is beyond his control. This, and Allaah knows best, is the reason why Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things)” [al-Noor 24:30]. In the original Arabic the literal meaning is “lower some of the gaze” which means that lowering the gaze completely is not obligatory and it is something that is beyond a person’s control, or what is required in cases of necessity, such as a doctor looking at his patient and so on, or when a man looks at the woman to whom he wants to propose marriage. End quote.

Source

[Raziah]

Alsalam alikum,

It is really good thread.
I think even women should lower their gaze,it is not easy, but also it is not difficult.

['Abd Al-Maajid]

Yes women should also lower their gaze. Yesterday I was in a wedding and there was music and dancing in the lawn. It was a huge wedding with lots of men dancing to a loud music. The most deviant behavior was shown by women. They were on the balcony of the villa and were watching the non-mahram men dancing....:raging::raging::raging:

[Rhubarb Tart]

Yes women should also lower their gaze. Yesterday I was in a wedding and there was music and dancing in the lawn. It was a huge wedding with lots of men dancing to a loud music. The most deviant behavior was shown by women. They were on the balcony of the villa and were watching the non-mahram men dancing....:raging::raging::raging:

please...

the men shouldnt be dancing with loud music where everyone including women can see them. If you ask me, they were the most deviant...opening the door to fitna...

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['Abd Al-Maajid]

^ I agree. I know music is haraam, people here are stupid. :p

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Yes women should also lower their gaze. Yesterday I was in a wedding and there was music and dancing in the lawn. It was a huge wedding with lots of men dancing to a loud music. The most deviant behavior was shown by women. They were on the balcony of the villa and were watching the non-mahram men dancing....:raging::raging::raging:

i agree that women should lower their gazes as well as that is what is prescribed by the shariah...however,

what were you doing watching the ladies watching the men dancing? and how do you know that they were watching them in that way anyway. see this

['Abd Al-Maajid]

i agree that women should lower their gazes as well as that is what is prescribed by the shariah...however,

what were you doing watching the ladies watching the men dancing? and how do you know that they were watching them in that way anyway. see this

Well well....I never said that they were watching men in this way or that way. I just said they were just watching. Anyways thanks for the link.

[tango92]

the main problem is not one or two stray females on the street, any1 can lower their gaze easily. and you know once you start lowering your gaze they seem to be everywhere.

the problem is if you go to college, the park, a shop where every single direction you look you get women. so you divert your gaze form one only to fall upon another, and eventually your back to the one you originally lowered your gaze from. facepalm.

the only safe place is up!

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Aslaamu`Alaaykum. .

^Astagfirullaah, "some" weddings these days:-\

Jazakallahu Khaayr sis Umm sufyaan for the great reminder! Its great to remind ourselves constantly about these things.
Yes sometimes it may be hard but its not too hard if you make yourself practice how not to look! :) Fighting against the Shaytaan is also not something easy but for some very easy, but thats because they learn to control their nafs!

Notice how Allaah commands the believing Men to lower their gaze first, then the believing Women.

Wa Alaaykum Salaam

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

I thought the Brother meant look up to lower you gaze :-\

thats funny imagining some brother or sister walking past you looking up but SubhaanAllaah

Its better to look down, and lowering your gaze doesnt always mean looking down, it can also mean looking away, dont walk that way if you feel uncomfortable, etc etc you get it Insha`Allaah . .

['Abd Al-Maajid]

^Imagine this, while looking up you are stepping on a dog's tail. LOL Or in worst case collide with another person of opposite gender.

[Rhubarb Tart]

why is it so hard for you lot to lower your gaze..it isnt hard at all.

[FatimaAsSideqah]

As salaam alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh

It is not difficulty to lower your gaze! Shaytan is constantly tempting us to glare at her/him with evil thoughts. Shaytan is probably excitingly saying, with a big smile, 'yes, yes, yes,' when we steer into the bait he is setting. During these situations, immediately and consciously realize that when we give a second or following glances, we are obeying Shaytan. Astagfirullah!!

"O you who believe, follow not the footsteps of the devil". (24:21). By immediately averting our gazes and disobeying Shaytan, we are giving him a one-two punch in the face and leaving him frustrated and accursed.

So let's all rebel against Shaytan and expel him from our hearts! Remember that even if no human eye is watching us, the Ever-Watchful Allah is constantly monitoring the innermost regions of our hearts. Our eyes, limbs, tongue and private parts will be witnesses on the Judgment Day and not an atom's worth of deed will remain unexamined.

We take refuge (to seek protection from the evil threatening me) with the might of Allah. Ameen.

[Cabdullahi]

lol unless you are a teenager, there isnt real excuse to not to lower your gaze. By now you should have learnt to control your sexual urges. It shouldnt be hard at all. I mean you lot meant to work, set rules and lead the house and only gender that lead a country and allowed to become judges so inappropriate thoughts should be least on your mind. All these responsibilities and men are too weak to lower their gaze? I dont think so...

you are right! there is no room for inappropriate thoughts because a man who dwells in these thoughts is not a man he's an animal.

[Rhubarb Tart]

you are right! there is no room for inappropriate thoughts because a man who dwells in these thoughts is not a man he's an animal.

yeah exactly

[Cabdullahi]

yeah exactly

in the west some of the thoughts are pumped up by suggestive advertisments and other methods , it takes high concentration to repel these thoughts and not to dwell in them...the gruelling aspect of it makes most give in but only a few succeed to fight it completely....it becomes an incurable disease in the end if you dont fight it :(

[Karl]

Maybe it's best to wear sunglasses or a hooded black robe like the Sith wear.LOL. But if you live where there are a lot of Godless or Pagan half naked girls and women getting around why should you lower your gaze, are they really worthy of that much respect? Maybe lowering of the gaze is for the good Muslimah, as she dresses modestly.

[Rhubarb Tart]

ignorance,ignorance,ignorance madame step in our shoes for a day just for a day and the difficulty will be evident

All i was saying was its a difficult task but it becomes manageable if you follow what islam teaches

only a person totally oblivious of the difficulty will say ''its easy'',''It shouldnt be hard at all''and pose questions like ''why is it so hard''.you will not know because you're a woman.

3.14 Beautiful unto men is the life of lust for women,
and then you laughed,giggled and mocked by saying 'lol unless you are a teenager' the lust for women is not restricted to teenage years its for life

i agree with you there is no excuse for not lowering our gazes but we wont accept certain people's unawareness who still persist to say controllin sexual urges is easy especially when its coming from a woman in times when naked women are at the forefront promoting everything from biscuits to vehicles.

If you lot are that weak then why is that Allah (swt) has given so much responsibilities?

You make men sound weak and pathetic. Sex, sex is that all that goes through your mind when a woman is in front of you regardless how she is dressed? If this is the case, then you need help.


Woman has lust over men too…but both sexes should be able to control it, especially going through a period (adolescence) where the hormones were so high.


Such pathetic excuse is used to make women stay indoors 24/7.
Oh it “so hard”, get a grip because there is bigger purpose in life.

It shouldn’t be “manageable”; it should be easy for you by now and much easier after you are married.

Can you show me a popular packet of biscuit with naked women please?

[Muslimeen]

If you lot are that weak then why is that Allah (swt) has given so much responsibilities?

You make men sound weak and pathetic. Sex, sex is that all that goes through your mind when a woman is in front of you regardless how she is dressed? If this is the case, then you need help.


Woman has lust over men too…but both sexes should be able to control it, especially going through a period (adolescence) where the hormones were so high.


Such pathetic excuse is used to make women stay indoors 24/7.
Oh it “so hard”, get a grip because there is bigger purpose in life.

It shouldn’t be “manageable”; it should be easy for you by now and much easier after you are married.

Can you show me a popular packet of biscuit with naked women please?

Dear Sister,

I can understand your disgust and rightfully so, you are right to a certain extent and yes there is no reason for any man to justify his actions for not lowering his gaze, there simply is'nt any execuse, I agree whole heartedly.

I think you are misunderstanding brother Abdullahii. He is merely highlighting the difficulty of the task. It is indeed very difficult for men especially in the current environment it is not as easy as it may seem. Yes with the dedication and perserverance it is possible, and is the only way to go. However that does not mean the task is an easy one. Remember the Hadith of Rasullulah Sallalahu Allaihi Wassalam,

“I have not left behind me any fitnah (temptation) more harmful to men than women.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5096; Muslim, 2740.

Again I must stress, I am not condoning it in any way, just highlighting the difficulty of the task. Hence Allah Swt regularly speaks of the Hur Al Ayn in the quran, a motivation for men to stay away from evil, that is why the strict dress code of Hijaab for women in Islam.

I agree with brother Abdullahii, it is a difficult task, but remain steadfast brother, it is a constant battle. I normally don't like to speak about dreams but if it is going to assist another muslim brother then I suppose it's worth sharing. I had this dream a few years back, in which I saw the Sahaba of Rasullulah Sallalahu Allaihi Wassalam, Ameer Ul Mumineen Hadhrat Umar (RA), upon greeting him by shaking of the hand he said to me (Something to the effect):

"Fighting against the nafs is a constant battle, it never ends."

So wage jihad against your nafs and the temptations of this world brother, insha allah you will be victorious. Ameen

[tango92]

If you lot are that weak then why is that Allah (swt) has given so much responsibilities?

You make men sound weak and pathetic. Sex, sex is that all that goes through your mind when a woman is in front of you regardless how she is dressed? If this is the case, then you need help.


Woman has lust over men too…but both sexes should be able to control it, especially going through a period (adolescence) where the hormones were so high.


Such pathetic excuse is used to make women stay indoors 24/7.
Oh it “so hard”, get a grip because there is bigger purpose in life.

It shouldn’t be “manageable”; it should be easy for you by now and much easier after you are married.

Can you show me a popular packet of biscuit with naked women please?

that last question shouldnt have been posted. neway look at the story of yusuf as. now were talking about a prophet of Allah swt

12:23 And she, in whose house he was, asked of him an evil act. She bolted the doors and said: Come! He said: I seek refuge in Allah! Lo! he is my lord, who hath treated me honourably. Lo! wrong-doers never prosper.
12:24 She verily desired him, and he would have desired her if it had not been that he saw the argument of his Lord. Thus it was, that We might ward off from him evil and lewdness. Lo! he was of Our chosen slaves.

skipping ahead:

12:32 She said: This is he on whose account ye blamed me. I asked of him an evil act, but he proved continent, but if he do not my behest he verily shall be imprisoned, and verily shall be of those brought low.
12:33 He said: O my Lord! Prison is more dear than that unto which they urge me, and if Thou fend not off their wiles from me I shall incline unto them and become of the foolish.
12:34 So his Lord heard his prayer and fended off their wiles from him. Lo! He is Hearer, Knower.

so we learn even a prophet had difficulty with the fitna of women. although he does pass the trial sucessfully. and he went on to be a great leader of those people saving them from famine. so his sexual desire did not impede him (as we would expect).

the strength to resist evil comes from Allah swt, but you cannot deny the difficulty nonetheless.

i hope you will reconsider your position.

[Life_Is_Short]

There are just as many men on the streets with no shirts as there are half dressed women. When you see someone coming from a distance, all you have to do is to divert your attention or look down. If you develop this habit. It's really not that difficult.

[Muslimeen]

There are just as many men on the streets with no shirts as there are half dressed women. When you see someone coming from a distance, all you have to do is to divert your attention or look down. If you develop this habit. It's really not that difficult.

I wish it was that easy, or maybe it is, I can't rule out the possibility of something being seriously wrong with me.:embarrass

[Asiyah3]

Oh it “so hard”, get a grip because there is bigger purpose in life.

It shouldn’t be “manageable”; it should be easy for you by now and much easier after you are married.

Sister I know judging is easy, but please try to be more understanding insha'Allah.

Can you show me a popular packet of biscuit with naked women please?

That's not the point. Women in underwear, bikinis and other transparent and revealing clothes in adversts, commercials or TV programs are a normal view.

[Rhubarb Tart]

You lot don’t get it? If you have been lowering your gaze over long period of time, it should be habitual. All this, is so hard is from the way in which you have been brought up. If a man is told from a young age that he cannot help but ogle at women or suppress his desires and that women need to cover up completely then he will do nothing to control himself. Many claim it is beyond the control of men to suppress such emotions and often the blame is put upon women, especially in so called Muslim society today.

I have male relatives who live in the west that don’t find it difficult because:

1. They have been lowering their gaze for such a long time, it has become a habit.
2. They have bigger purpose in life, family and religion keep them occupied.

These men do not use excuses such as a man is pre programmed to lust after women and they don’t complain. But instead live their day to day lives whilst respecting the women around them.

Both male and female raise their sons up correctly to be better men and not make excuses for them, but to respect their fellow sisters of every race/religion!

It became such a habit to me that I had problem with my university for not giving “eye contact” to patients during work experiences. These barriers have always been there, but if you have been lowering your gaze for such a long time, these barriers are so easy to get through.

[Rhubarb Tart]

I cannot sympathise with any man that complains tbh.

Every summer, there always has to be a Muslim man complaining how difficult it is or how a sister is dress and acts. It like you wants us to play violin for hardship of men.

I rather play the violin for greater hardship Muslims come across than lowering one’s gaze! And I embraced to say some Muslim men still stare at those wearing proper hijab and even nigab. As a result, some say women should be staying indoors 24/7 :)

[Woodrow]

You lot don’t get it? If you have been lowering your gaze over long period of time, it should be habitual. All this, is so hard is from the way in which you have been brought up. If a man is told from a young age that he cannot help but ogle at women or suppress his desires and that women need to cover up completely then he will do nothing to control himself. Many claim it is beyond the control of men to suppress such emotions and often the blame is put upon women, especially in so called Muslim society today.

I have male relatives who live in the west that don’t find it difficult because:

1. They have been lowering their gaze for such a long time, it has become a habit.
2. They have bigger purpose in life, family and religion keep them occupied.

These men do not use excuses such as a man is pre programmed to lust after women and they don’t complain. But instead live their day to day lives whilst respecting the women around them.

Both male and female raise their sons up correctly to be better men and not make excuses for them, but to respect their fellow sisters of every race/religion!

It became such a habit to me that I had problem with my university for not giving “eye contact” to patients during work experiences. These barriers have always been there, but if you have been lowering your gaze for such a long time, these barriers are so easy to get through.

:sl:

One of the best replies I have ever seen regarding this subject. It is all about Attitude, intent and habit. Once those are developed to a mature level, this is no longer a major problem Stop and think, most males have no problem in not noticing muscled, scantly dressed males (I hope they don't). The same reason we can avoid looking at them can be used to develop the discipline needed to avoid uneeeded looking at women.

[FS123]

sometime people demand to look up. Once I was taking to a lady in registar's office to get the grades, she shouted at me not look down while she is talking :/

[Muslimeen]

You lot don’t get it? If you have been lowering your gaze over long period of time, it should be habitual. All this, is so hard is from the way in which you have been brought up. If a man is told from a young age that he cannot help but ogle at women or suppress his desires and that women need to cover up completely then he will do nothing to control himself. Many claim it is beyond the control of men to suppress such emotions and often the blame is put upon women, especially in so called Muslim society today.

I have male relatives who live in the west that don’t find it difficult because:

1. They have been lowering their gaze for such a long time, it has become a habit.
2. They have bigger purpose in life, family and religion keep them occupied.

These men do not use excuses such as a man is pre programmed to lust after women and they don’t complain. But instead live their day to day lives whilst respecting the women around them.

Both male and female raise their sons up correctly to be better men and not make excuses for them, but to respect their fellow sisters of every race/religion!

It became such a habit to me that I had problem with my university for not giving “eye contact” to patients during work experiences. These barriers have always been there, but if you have been lowering your gaze for such a long time, these barriers are so easy to get through.

Jazakallah sister,

I must accept, I have not trained myself from a young age. In fact I was taught by my parents and in madrassah, however it must be my innermost dark self that has led me astray. There are these two conflicting forces/voices within myself that I have to keep on fighting, everyday of my life.

It is not the women that walks past me, it is my eyes that follows her.
It is not the evil that is around me, it is the evil that is within me.
The problem is not with the world around me, the problem is deep down inside me.

I ask that you make dua for my guidance and humanity at large, as long as we keep on making excuses we will never be able to reform ourselves. I wish I had your strength and resolve to do good and forbid evil. May allah keep you on the straight path and make you from amongst the dwellers of paradise. Ameen.

[Woodrow]

sometime people demand to look up. Once I was taking to a lady in registar's office to get the grades, she shouted at me not look down while she is talking :/

There is a knack in this. Select a point to look at on the wall behind the person and you will be avoiding gazing at the person.

[Muslimeen]

There is a knack in this. Select a point to look at on the wall behind the person and you will be avoiding gazing at the person.

I agree, however, I am still trying to figure out where to look when I am walking in shopping mall, if I look straight ahead, I look at them straight in the face or some other part of the body, and if I look down, all I see is LEGS!! White, black, brown, all colours, thank allah for winter and curse the inventor of the mini skirt.
Maybe I should start looking at the ceiling, oops, just walked into one. Sorry:bump1:
Just kidding.

[tango92]

There is a knack in this. Select a point to look at on the wall behind the person and you will be avoiding gazing at the person.

but you still see them in your peripheral vision, i thought that defeats the purpose. i need to gain more knowledge about this.....

[FS123]

There is a knack in this. Select a point to look at on the wall behind the person and you will be avoiding gazing at the person.

I wasn't gazing, there was desk in between, and in the registar office it is high. She wanted me to look at her face when she was talking, maybe she thought I wasn't paying attention. Some people prefer to have eye contact when they are talking.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

I cannot sympathise with any man that complains tbh.

Every summer, there always has to be a Muslim man complaining how difficult it is or how a sister is dress and acts. It like you wants us to play violin for hardship of men.

I rather play the violin for greater hardship Muslims come across than lowering one’s gaze! And I embraced to say some Muslim men still stare at those wearing proper hijab and even nigab. As a result, some say women should be staying indoors 24/7 :)

I think you need to have a little more mercy on your brothers - it's not like you actually can relate to what brothers have to go through because you're not inbuilt with the same mental processes. It's not exactly easy to deal with beautiful women when they're not dressed properly, when you're a young man with hot blood, and you're not married so you don't have a halal avenue to channel your desires. This is a reality that you cannot deny because it's what most young men face and it's even confirmed in the Qur'an and it even occurred in front of the Prophet (saw) with a young companion from Quraysh checking out a girl in front of the Prophet and his response and counsel to the young man wasn't the same as what you're suggesting.

Now Im not trying to justify a guy checking out girls - but at the same time you need to realize that you're a woman and you cannot understand how men function just like we cannot fathom how you function. You need to cut the guys some slack - it's not exactly easy to deal with immodestly dressed beautiful women especially when theres a lot of them all around you. It's hard, especially in the summer. Stop pointing the fingers on the men. It also is hard when you're trying to deal with a decked out sister. Some guys are not attracted to the scantily dressed women but are attracted to the modestly dressed sisters, even niqabis and when shes decked out in makeup and jewelry, she's not exactly making it easier for her brothers. Or when the Niqabi sister has on contacts or some way to beautify her eyes. Part of the 'blame' so to speak lies on her as well. This is reality.

[Rhubarb Tart]

I think you need to have a little more mercy on your brothers - it's not like you actually can relate to what brothers have to go through because you're not inbuilt with the same mental processes. It's not exactly easy to deal with beautiful women when they're not dressed properly, when you're a young man with hot blood, and you're not married so you don't have a halal avenue to channel your desires. This is a reality that you cannot deny because it's what most young men face and it's even confirmed in the Qur'an and it even occurred in front of the Prophet (saw) with a young companion from Quraysh checking out a girl in front of the Prophet and his response and counsel to the young man wasn't the same as what you're suggesting.

Now Im not trying to justify a guy checking out girls - but at the same time you need to realize that you're a woman and you cannot understand how men function just like we cannot fathom how you function. You need to cut the guys some slack - it's not exactly easy to deal with immodestly dressed beautiful women especially when theres a lot of them all around you. It's hard, especially in the summer. Stop pointing the fingers on the men. It also is hard when you're trying to deal with a decked out sister. Some guys are not attracted to the scantily dressed women but are attracted to the modestly dressed sisters, even niqabis and when shes decked out in makeup and jewelry, she's not exactly making it easier for her brothers. Or when the Niqabi sister has on contacts or some way to beautify her eyes. Part of the 'blame' so to speak lies on her as well. This is reality.

I would actually be more sympathetic, if I did not hear about it so many times in forums and community even in mosques. I would also be more sympathetic if brothers quit complaining about sisters, it is off putting. I would also be more sympathetic, if people did not focus so much on it! I would also be more sympathetic if brother quit telling me what to do, how to dress and what I can or cannot do, all because I would be fitna to them! I would also be sympathetic if they start to place same level of criticism on themselves.

I would cut men some slack, when they start to change and cut the sisters some slack. And men start being sympathetic towards the sisters, the fact that they have to fully cover up in extremely hot weather or islamicphobic environment.

I also said proper hijab and Nigab, these girls I was talking about don’t even wear makeup.

I am inpatient and quite intolerant person; this is something I am willing to change about myself. But I won’t be getting my violin out just yet tho. :)

[Alpha Dude]

Sweet106, I think you're being a drama queen. Nobody's asking you to get your violin out. Just don't let your hatred of men (as evident by the ''all men are patriarchal' undertones in most of your posts) get in the way of seeing the facts.

It is plainly obvious to anyone that women are one of the biggest fitna for men (nevermind that this also mentioned in hadith).

We're also told that women would be the biggest tool that dajjal will use to attract followers. Obviously, there must something about them that is very alluring to men.

Also, men are allowed to marry four women (even if purely for sake of their desires) and it is permissible for them to have relations with slave-girls. Not to mention the reward of hoors in jannah. You're free to make your own judgements but it's obvious to an unbiased person that women have a seductive power over men.

Anyway, you are just generalising the behaviour of some men and assuming it's true of all. We don't all lock our women up in the kitchen (although I think it would do the ultra feminist ones some good, as a reality check - usually they have a lot of arrogance, some hard work would break that <_<).

So, just chill.

[Rhubarb Tart]

Salam

And here I thought marrying four women didn’t have anything to with sex...

I did not deny women are fitna to men. I clearly said isn’t as hard as people here make out. Allah (swt) didn’t leave anything impossible on this earth.

I clearly wrote that I was inpatient and intolerant person especially towards men, bitter experiences leave bitter taste. And I am not sorry for my undertone.

But doesn’t mean I said wasn’t true; I would be more sympathetic, if people quit placing our deen on this one issue and same level of criticism was placed on Muslim men too.

[Alpha Dude]

And here I thought marrying four women didn’t have anything to with sex...

Wa alaykum salam,

It doesn't have to be but don't be under any illusion and think men aren't allowed to marry for that reason either. If a guy is having trouble keeping himself in check and is about to get involved in zina then it actually becomes wajib upon him to marry someone else.

I clearly said isn’t as hard as people here make out. Allah (swt) didn’t leave anything impossible on this earth.

No man says it's impossible. Just very difficult.

I clearly wrote that I was inpatient and intolerant person especially towards men, bitter experiences leave bitter taste. And I am not sorry for my undertone.

Fair enough.

I hope you appreciate that most men don't like women with attitude. You can ask men to do something politely, tell them to do it politely, demand them to do it albeit in a modest polite manner and they are far far more likely to listen to what you have to say than if you were to show even a hint of attitude.

Attitude doesn't really earn you any respect with men. Quite the contrary. I think some women over do it in a bid to 'assert' themselves.

[Rhubarb Tart]

It doesn't have to be but don't be under any illusion and think men aren't allowed to marry for that reason either. If a guy is having trouble keeping himself in check and is about to get involved in zina then it actually becomes wajib upon him to marry someone else.

Oh I did not know this. Provided that he can afford it and spend the same time with them?

No man says it's impossible. Just very difficult.

Does the difficulties have to be mentioned as much as it is already?

Fair enough.

I hope you appreciate that most men don't like women with attitude. You can ask men to do something politely, tell them to do it politely, demand them to do it albeit in a modest polite manner and they are far far more likely to listen to what you have to say than if you were to show even a hint of attitude.

Attitude doesn't really earn you any respect with men. Quite the contrary. I think some women over do it in a bid to 'assert' themselves.

Trust me, i am not asserting myself. My attitude never developed to gain respect nor was it to teach men anything. Men is what shaped and assisted my attitude. If anything my attitude isn’t really going to change for any man at all but for my son.

[Ansariyah]

^Sis sweet106 doesn't need ur respect to be honest she spoke the truth, it hurts? get over it 'man'. Nor did she display any attitude, why are brothers getting all heated up about the simple truth?

Its true some brothers will hit on sistas even if they are dressed properly n are not wearing any make up, that doesn't make it the sisters fault, no1 cares about ur hormones excuses keep that to urself pls.

I was once in a lift wit a brotha who kept saying 'MashaAllah MashaAllah' but trust me it was no sincere mashaAllah, it was a pervy one.

Now I cringe when I hear the word 'MashaAllah'...

[Alpha Dude]

Oh I did not know this. Provided that he can afford it and spend the same time with them?

I don't know. However, no woman would really marry someone if he couldn't provide for her and as for the second, that's not something that can be gauged prior to marriage (although he'd be accountable on the day of judgement for any injustices).

Does the difficulties have to be mentioned as much as it is already?

Your sentence had it coming, given that you tried to imply that men say it's impossible when they don't.

Trust me, i am not asserting myself. My attitude never developed to gain respect nor was it to teach men anything. Men is what shaped and assisted my attitude. If anything my attitude isn’t really going to change for any man at all but for my son.

If you are divorced and don't want to marry again, then that's your choice but just for reference: If you'd like a happy marriage, drop this men hating attitude.

^Sis sweet106 doesn't need ur respect

It was general (sincere) advice for her and I think you need it to. If you want your husbands and other men out there to respect you properly and listen to you, then behave modestly, appropriately, politely with little attitude. It would be counter productive to have a guns blazing approach.

Its true some brothers will hit on sistas even if they are dressed properly n are not wearing any make up, that doesn't make it the sisters fault, no1 cares about ur hormones excuses keep that to urself pls.

You've obviously misunderstood what's being discussed. This is about muslim men saying how hard it is to guard their gaze given the way women parade themselves. Not muslim men saying how hard it is to avoid harassing and perving women because they make it so easy. Don't know how you even came to that conclusion?(!)

C'mon 'sista', at least understand something before blindly barging in to offer girl power support.

[Abdul Wahid]

:sl: brothers & sisters.

Chill out.

[Rhubarb Tart]

Your sentence had it coming, given that you tried to imply that men say it's impossible when they don't.

You must have read next sentence after the one I said,

I did not deny women are fitna to men. I clearly said isn’t as hard as people here make out.

I was suggesting the difficulties are exaggerated. I think it is exaggerated so much, one would think the whole deen is focused on the fitna of women!

If you are divorced and don't want to marry again, then that's your choice but just for reference: If you'd like a happy marriage, drop this men hating attitude.

What gave you the idea that I was divorced or never wanting to marry!

[Alpha Dude]

I was suggesting the difficulties are exaggerated. I think it is exaggerated so much, one would think the whole deen is focused on the fitna of women!

I know what you meant. I'd say you were the one doing some exaggerating.

What gave you the idea that I was divorced or never wanting to marry!

You said you had bitter experiences (implying divorce) and you'd only change for your son (implying that you'd never marry).

[Ansariyah]

I was perfectly well in tune wit the topic, what I said is related. I think its u who shud stop jumping to conclusions n missed to understand my point.

Thanks for ur advice-joined-wit-insult. Its very beneficial...?

u got a very bitter tone, save it.

[tango92]

I was suggesting the difficulties are exaggerated. I think it is exaggerated so much, one would think the whole deen is focused on the fitna of women!

for many brothers the MAJOR contributing factor that stopped them from accepting/practising upon the truth was the fitna of women. really i think if men could learn only one thing it should be how to lower their gaze, after this everything else is basically secondary because it becomes so easy.

[Rhubarb Tart]

I know what you meant. I'd say you were the one doing some exaggerating.

You said you had bitter experiences (implying divorce) and you'd only change for your son (implying that you'd never marry).

Nope, I not am doing any exaggeration. If there was any exaggeration is probably from my observation.
And does these bitter experiences always lead to divorce?

My son is the most important “male” in my life!

[Rhubarb Tart]

for many brothers the MAJOR contributing factor that stopped them from accepting/practising upon the truth was the fitna of women. really i think if men could learn only one thing it should be how to lower their gaze, after this everything else is basically secondary because it becomes so easy.

Salam

thanks for that.

[tango92]

Salam

thanks for that.

i meant other parts of the deen become easy, just to clarify...............................

[Alpha Dude]

I was perfectly well in tune wit the topic, what I said is related. I think its u who shud stop jumping to conclusions n missed to understand my point.

No, what you said was off.

"that doesn't make it the sisters fault, no1 cares about ur hormones excuses keep that to urself pls. "

This means: 'You guys here are giving pervy guys an excuse'. Which nobody did.

u got a very bitter tone, save it.

People usually find beneficial medicine bitter.

[cat eyes]

brother alpha dude is right. women are a fitna for men. even imam buhkari reported this from the prophet mohammad (saw) and its a sound hadith.

this is why us women are ordered to cover up from head to toe. i think we should fear Allah and honestly keep our disagreements in our pockets inshallah.

[Asiyah3]

I rather play the violin for greater hardship Muslims come across than lowering one’s gaze! And I embraced to say some Muslim men still stare at those wearing proper hijab and even nigab. As a result, some say women should be staying indoors 24/7 :)

Are you saying that Muslim women are told to stay home, because men stare at them?

[cat eyes]

^Sis sweet106 doesn't need ur respect to be honest she spoke the truth, it hurts? get over it 'man'. Nor did she display any attitude, why are brothers getting all heated up about the simple truth?

Its true some brothers will hit on sistas even if they are dressed properly n are not wearing any make up, that doesn't make it the sisters fault, no1 cares about ur hormones excuses keep that to urself pls.

I was once in a lift wit a brotha who kept saying 'MashaAllah MashaAllah' but trust me it was no sincere mashaAllah, it was a pervy one.

Now I cringe when I hear the word 'MashaAllah'...

this happened with me too and i said Alhamdulilah.

u shouldnt cringe when u hear the word mashallah because he probably was just proud to see a sister who was modest looking :)

[Ansariyah]

No, what you said was off.

"that doesn't make it the sisters fault, no1 cares about ur hormones excuses keep that to urself pls. "

This means: 'You guys here are giving pervy guys an excuse'. Which nobody did.

Some people did, re'read through the thread, not necessarily for harrasssing sistas, but that they can't lower their gaze. I was just speaking generally but its still related.

People usually find beneficial medicine bitter.

1 who gives sincere advice does not flatter himself.

[Alpha Dude]

Some people did, re'read through the thread, not necessarily for harrasssing sistas, but that they can't lower their gaze. I was just speaking generally but its still related.

Very debatable but believe as you wish.

As for your second comment, if you really think I'm trying to flatter myself, look up what husn al dhaan means.

[Rhubarb Tart]

Are you saying that Muslim women are told to stay home and because men stare at them?

I could not make it any clearer?

@Cat
I did not say women were not fitna to men!! I never said that at all. I didn’t even disagree with that! I simply had a problem with constant complaining about lowering one gaze and questioning the focus of these difficulties!

[cat eyes]

I could not make it any clearer?

@Cat
I did not say women were not fitna to men!! I never said that at all. I didn’t even disagree with that! I simply had a problem with constant complaining about lowering one gaze and questioning the focus of these difficulties!

okay sis:wub:

[Asiyah3]

I could not make it any clearer?

I've never seen or heard of any Muslim woman who's been told to stay home for the sake of men's gaze.

[Alpha Dude]

I've never seen or heard of any Muslim woman who's been told to stay home for the sake of men's gaze.

Me neither. Hence I say her attitude is one of exaggeration.

[Rhubarb Tart]

I've never seen or heard of any Muslim woman who's been told to stay home for the sake of men's gaze.

I have, plenty of times. :)

[Rhubarb Tart]

Me neither. Hence I say her attitude is one of exaggeration.

Because you never heard of it, it must be exaggeration on my part. great...

[Asiyah3]

I have, plenty of time. :)

Who are you to generalise and talk on behalf of Muslim women?

[Alpha Dude]

Because you never heard of it, it must be exaggeration on my part. great...

Obviously. Women don't half get emotional about stuff. I think emotion clouds their judgement. :ooh:

Seriously though, if you've heard it with your own ears then fine. However, I hesitate to accept that it's as common as you make out.

[Rhubarb Tart]

Who are you to generalise and talk on behalf of Muslim women?

And who are you to say I was generalising? You need to learn to read the sentence you quote. Hence I said some. And nowhere did I mention I was talking on behalf of women. Now get off my back.

[Asiyah3]

I did not deny women are fitna to men. I clearly said isn’t as hard as people here make out. Allah (swt) didn’t leave anything impossible on this earth.

According to your post lowering the gaze is not hard at all

[Asiyah3]

And who are you to say I was generalising? You need to learn to read the sentence you quote. Hence I said some. And nowhere did I mention I was talking on behalf of women. Now get off my back.

I didn't assume anything about you or your posts. I asked you directly and your response was:

I could not make it any clearer?

[Rhubarb Tart]

According to your post lowering the gaze is not hard at all

So you jump from me generalising about women’s suffer and suggesting I was talking behalf of women to statements I made early saying lowering one’s gaze isn’t hard as people make out?

Your logic is inexcusable sister.

[Rhubarb Tart]

That response was toward this question:

Are you saying that Muslim women are told to stay home, because men stare at them.

And then I said:

I could not make it any clearer.

Thus whatever you read in following qoute below was correct:

I rather play the violin for greater hardship Muslims come across than lowering one’s gaze! And I embraced to say some Muslim men still stare at those wearing proper hijab and even nigab. As a result, SOME say women should be staying indoors 24/7

Notice I even capitalised and highlighted the word some. You are jumping on my neck for no absolute reason.

[Asiyah3]

So you jump from me generalising about women’s suffer and suggesting I was talking behalf of women to statements I made early saying lowering one’s gaze isn’t hard as people make out?

I'm free to comment on any of your posts. :p

Your logic is inexcusable sister.

A'udhubillah that I'd resort to this level. I only want us to be supportive and understanding with each other.

[Rhubarb Tart]

I'm free to comment on any of your posts. :p


A'udhubillah that I'd resort to this level. I only want us to be supportive and understanding with each other.

Yes you are free to comment on my posts. Noone can stop you..

okay you want me to be supportive and understanding...i will try. :)

[Asiyah3]

Yes you are free to comment on my posts. Noone can stop you..

okay you want me to be supportive and understanding...i will try. :)

Thank you sister, I really appreciate it. :) Insha'Allah we'll become best friends one day. :p

[Rhubarb Tart]

Yes Insha'Allah :)