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anonymous
06-26-2010, 02:52 PM
For example if two people have a haraam relationship and then decide to get married? I have a revert friend who married a born muslim, however the born Muslim was not praticing and they ended up doing all kinds of haraam before marriage .

He only reverted so that he could marry her, then after he reverted he started studying Islam and realised it was the truth and took his testimoney of faith properly, however the problem he is now facing is that his wife is not praticing at all, she doesn't pray or anything, and is a bad muslim. He's tried to make her change but it's not working, he's like really islamic and she isn't. She doesn't dress as a muslimah should, and has the values of non muslims like it's ok to free mix etc.

He is thinking maybe because of the haraam foundations the relationship was built on that its not succeeding, and he is thinking of divorcing and looking for a praticing wife who prays and actually takes an interest in Islam and pratices the deen.

So what do you all think? Can a marriage with haraam foundations be sucessfull? I'd appreciate if you post scholarly opinions also and evidence from Qur'an and sunnah if there is any.
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anonymous
06-28-2010, 06:20 AM
bump!! any ideas?
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Ummu Sufyaan
06-28-2010, 06:45 AM
:sl:
Allah knows everything. its not always the same answer for everyone...i don't think one can say for sure. sometimes those types of relationships produce sweet fruits, but (imo), most of the time, they produce bitter fruits.

this maybe of help.
Is love before marriage better?

Question:
What is more stable in Islam, a love marriage or an arranged marriage?

Answer:
Praise be to Allah.


The issue of this marriage depends on the ruling on what came before it. If the love between the two parties did not transgress the limits set by Allah or make them commit sin, then there is the hope that the marriage which results from this love will be more stable, because it came about as the result of the fact that each of them wanted to marry the other.

If a man feels some attraction towards a woman whom it is permissible for him to marry her, and vice versa, there is no answer to the problem except marriage. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “We do not think that there is anything better for those who love one another than marriage.” (Narrated by Ibn Majah, 1847; classed as saheeh by al-Busayri and by Shaykh al-Albani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah, 624)

Al-Sindi said, as noted in Hamish Sunan Ibn Majah:
The phrase “We do not think that there is anything better for those who love one another than marriage” may be understood to refer to two or to more than two. What this means is that if there is love between two people, that love cannot be increased or made to last longer by anything like marriage. If there is marriage as well as that love, that love will increase and grow stronger every day.”

But if that marriage comes about as a result of an illicit love relationship, such as when they meet and are alone together and kiss one another, and other haram actions, then it will never be stable, because they committed actions that go against sharee’ah and because they have built their lives on things that will have the effect of reducing blessings and support from Allah, for sin is a major factor in reducing blessings, even though some people think, because of the Shaytan’s whispers, that falling in love and doing haram deeds makes marriage stronger.

Moreover, these illicit relationships that take place before marriage will be a cause to make each party doubtful about the other. The husband will think that his wife may possibly have a similar relationship with someone else, and even if he thinks it unlikely, he will still be troubled by the fact that his wife did do something wrong with him. And the same thoughts may occur to the wife too, and she will think that her husband could possibly have an affair with another woman, and even if she thinks it unlikely, she will still be troubled by the fact that her husband did something wrong with her.

So each partner will live in a state of doubt and suspicion, which will ruin their relationship sooner or later.

The husband may condemn his wife for having agreed to have a relationship with him before marriage, which will be upsetting for her, and this will cause their relationship to deteriorate.

Hence we think that if a marriage is based upon an illicit premarital relationship, it will most likely be unstable and will not be successful.

With regard to arranged marriages where the family chooses the partner, they are not all good and not all bad. If the family makes a good choice and the woman is religious and beautiful, and the husband likes her and wants to marry her, then there is the hope that their marriage will be stable and successful. Hence the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) urged the one who wants to get married to look at the woman. It was narrated from al-Mugheerah ibn Shu’bah that he proposed marriage to a woman, and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, “Go and look at her, because that is more likely to create love between you.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1087; classed as hasan by al-Nasa’i, 3235)

But if the family make a bad choice, or they make a good choice but the husband does not agree with it, then this marriage is most likely doomed to failure and instability, because the marriage that is based on lack of interest usually is not stable.

And Allah knows best.

Islam Q&A
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aadil77
06-28-2010, 09:19 AM
I wouldn't blame the revert for the 'haraam foundations' - he was not aware of the truth, now that he's received guidance from Allah he's reached another level compared to his wife, thats obviously gonna cause compatibility issues. It happens in families where one person becomes more practicing and then has issues with the rest of his family who are less practicing.

The brother obviously has a right to divorce her if she doesn't pray, dress's immodestly and freemixes with other men. If she's not willing to change and he does decide to divorce, the only person that will lose out will be the wife - she'll be losing a pious husband.

It funny how Allahs guidence works, I bet the women only made him convert so that he would become acceptable for marriage, but now that he's recieved guidence she is now unacceptable to him, so yeah it might be because of the haram foundations and no blessings - but atleast something good came out of it, a brother reverted.
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cat eyes
06-28-2010, 02:15 PM
the very fact that these two people got the chance to marry is a blessing in itself! this was the will of Allah clearly. so the problem is not that they did haraam its because they are no longer compatible

but he has a chance now to give her dawah and he should not divorce until he has giving a lot of dawah to her and warned her many times. this is a test for him now maybe so he should be patient and continue to give her dawah

it is a misconception that the reasons why marriage breaks up is because they did haraam before. maybe this is the very reason why Allah willed this marriage so that she may become guided through it and Allah knows best more then any of us.

Of course the majority of haraam relations never get to the marriage stage anyway. scholars have to give strict fatwas of course so nobody will do haraam before marriage. its there job

Allah knows best
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Ali_008
06-28-2010, 02:36 PM
:sl:
Noah (PBUH) and Lot (PBUH), have we forgotten about them? They had disbelieving wives but they did not divorce them, rather they kept giving them Daw'ah as much as they could. They didn't divorce them even if they rejected Islam. They stayed with them in harmony till the time they died.
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Snowflake
06-28-2010, 02:40 PM
:sl: The answer is simple. A muslim is obligated to divorce a spouse who does not pray and is neither righteous or upright. But first they must be advised. If they still do not rectify their mistakes then it become obligatory to divorce them as they are committing disbelief.


Jabir ibn ‘Abdullaah that the Prophet (saws) said: ((Between a man and disbelief and polytheism is the abandoning of the prayer)).Also, Imaam Ahmad and the compilers of the Sunan recorded with a Saheeh chain from Buraydah ibn al-Hasib that the Prophet (saws) said: ((The covenant between us and them is the prayer. Whoever abandons it has committed disbelief)).
If a spouse is neither righteous or pious and they do not rectify their mistakes, then divorce even becomes obligatory. In the case of adultry Ibn Taimiyyah rahimahullah said, "If the wife commits adultery, then it is not for the husband to keep her. Otherwise he will be considered a cuckold." I'm assuming that means beghairat. Similarly if the husband is not righteous then it is obligatory for the wife to ask for divorce, or separate from him by khul. - (in my own words from. Shaykh al Fawzaan's, 'A summary of islamic Jurisprudence)

:wa:
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anonymous
06-28-2010, 02:54 PM
Originally Posted by Ali_008
:sl:
Noah (PBUH) and Lot (PBUH), have we forgotten about them? They had disbelieving wives but they did not divorce them, rather they kept giving them Daw'ah as much as they could. They didn't divorce them even if they rejected Islam. They stayed with them in harmony till the time they died.

But I wonder since we are not living under the shari'a that Noah brought, is this a right example to follow? Like can we derive Islamic rulings from the life of Noah and say they are Islamic rulings? and apply them to our lifes?

I mean we know in our shari'a it is haraam to stay married to a disbelieving woman/man. So we can't follow Noah's example in todays world and say "its ok to stay married to disbelievers since noah did and you must keep giving them dawah even if they're not muslim cos this was the example of noah"

The shari'a that muhammed brought has its own rulings I think, which differ from the sharia of Noah. I'm all for giving dawah and trying to get the person to change, but what if she doesn't? do you just waste your life away with that person? letting them influence your kids in the same manner?

letting your kids take them as a role model? The parents play a big role in the life of children, if the husband/wife is telling the child it's ok they don't have to pray or cover up and they can listen to music should he still follow the example of Noah and just try to give dawah? whilst in the mean time his children are being led astray by the influence of the other parent who his astray?
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Salahudeen
06-28-2010, 03:17 PM
I found this question and answer on Islam QA, the person who asked the question had done haraam with a girl, however the sheikh advised him to repent from it and cut of all haraam contact with the girl and do Istikhara. And then Marry her if he wishes. here it is.


He is in love with a girl and wants to marry her

I am a young man, I pray and have memorized the Qur’aan, praise be to Allaah. But I got to know a girl over the phone and our relationship began over the phone, then we met, but no evil action took place between us, praise be to Allaah. Then I advised her to pray regularly and memorize Qur’aan, and stop listening to songs, and that the basis of our relationship should be love of Allaah, may He be exalted, then love of His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), then the love that exists between us.
I found that she responded and began to pray regularly and read Qur’aan, and she stopped listening to songs. Then we ended our phone relationship and she said that she will wait for me, in sha Allaah.
Now I am hesitating. Should I propose marriage to her, despite what we hear of the bad effects of such relationships on the stability of married life afterwards?
Or should I cut off the relationship with her completely, even though I am in love with her and we have agreed to live our lives in accordance with that which pleases Allaah? We have decided that our life together will start with a visit to the House of Allaah once we are married, in sha Allaah.

Praise be to Allaah.

People keep coming up with false justification for wrong deeds and the Shaytaan encourages them to do that and makes people’s deeds appear attractive to them, approaching each person in the manner that is appropriate to him. So he pushes the lazy person further into negligence, and with one who is resolved and ambitious he pushes him towards exaggeration and extremism. He is always causing trouble to people. This is what Allaah has decreed in this world.

The same applies to relationships between people, especially a relationship between a man and a non-mahram woman. The accursed one (the Shaytaan) tempts the one who seeks beauty and makes a particular woman seem beautiful to him until he is trapped and in his eyes she becomes the most beautiful of women, although she may be one of the least beautiful. Similarly in the case of one who prays or has memorized the Qur’aan, if the Shaytaan is not able to make him fall into the trap of forbidden relationships with women because his religious commitment protects him and makes him reluctant to behave like the immoral people, then the Shaytaan uses the idea of love for the sake of Allaah and brotherly/sisterly relationships among Muslims, and calling people to Allaah with wisdom and beautiful preaching.

We do not know whether you need us to tell you that you have ignored the doors which the laws of Allaah have opened for you to meet your needs and have entered the houses from the back. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“It is not Al‑Birr (piety, righteousness) that you enter the houses from the back” [al-Baqarah 2:189]

You should not need to be told this.

Do you need us to tell you that a mere meeting between a man and a non-mahram woman is an evil action of which Allaah and His Messenger do not approve, because it involves being alone with a member of the opposite sex, which is haraam, and entering upon women, and looking at them in haraam ways.

Even if it did not involve the evil action to which you refer, then just as there are degrees of righteous deeds, so too following the footsteps of the Shaytaan of the Shaytaan varies in wickedness.

You – since you pray and have memorized the Qur’aan – should not need to be told this.

If you had asked us before you went ahead and followed in those footsteps, as you should have done, we would have said to you: What do you have to do with undisciplined girl? No one would accept a girl who is astray except one who is himself astray. Forget about her, and if you cannot keep the wolves away from her then do not be a wolf yourself, until her Lord bestows His kindness upon her and enables her to repent to Him and helps her by means of her mahrams or other women who can guide her to the right way.

But what has happened has happened, and praise be to Allaah Who has concealed you both and that nothing has happened between you of what usually happens in such relationships. Praise be to Allaah that He has enabled you to end this relationship, but you should complete that by repenting to Allaah from what you have done and foiling the traps of the Shaytaan that he has set up to ensnare you and stir up the flames of desire and sin in your hearts. We ask Allaah bless us and you with acceptance.

If you do that, and take measures to set things straight between you, and you give up the evil actions that you did before, then pray istikhaarah to Allaah concerning the marriage that you seek. Perhaps this step may be a confirmation of following the path of success.

“So enter houses through their proper doors, and fear Allaah that you may be successful”

[al-Baqarah 2:189]

But you – and she – should both try to find out about each other’s lives – before this mistake – find out about each party’s behaviour and attitude and the way the families live, as is usually done by anyone who wishes to propose marriage. If it turns out that what happened between you of meeting and getting to know one another in a manner that is not approved of in sharee’ah, and Allaah protected you from it being any worse than that, then go ahead and get married as soon as possible.

Yes, the beginning was a mistake, but it is not wise, nor is it prescribed in sharee’ah, to forsake a drowning man when we are able to save him, on the grounds that he is the one who took the risk and set out to travel by sea.

Warning against evil and telling people not to do it is one thing, and dealing with mistakes and those who have deviated from the path is something else. The people of the Sunnah, as Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, know what is right and what is wrong, but at the same time they are compassionate towards people.

What we advise you to do is to marry his girl with whom you are in love, after praying istikhaarah and asking Allaah for guidance. Pray to Allaah and beseech Him to help you both to do that which Allaah loves and is pleased with. It was narrated that Ibn 'Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “We do not think that there is anything better for two who love one another than marriage.” Narrated by Ibn Maajah, 1847. al-Busayri said: Its men are thiqaat and its isnaad is saheeh.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

If Allaah has decreed that you should get married after that, this is good, in sha Allaah. If He has not decreed that then that is also good, in sha Allaah.

We also advise you to read question no. 36618.

We ask Allaah to make our affairs and yours easy, and to guide us all and grant us success.
Islam Q&A
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cat eyes
06-28-2010, 03:19 PM
if the whole point of this thread is that you yourself want to marry some one who does not practice then i suggest you don't marry them. its a different story altogether when your already married to somebody then you have to give them chance.. they might change but it usually ends in the divorce. see the hadiths posted above by sister scents
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Snowflake
06-28-2010, 03:31 PM
I'm all for giving dawah and trying to get the person to change, but what if she doesn't? do you just waste your life away with that person? letting them influence your kids in the same manner?
Course not.. The best thing a person can do for their offspring is remove them from the influence of a non practicing parent.


Originally Posted by Ali_008

Ali -Noah (PBUH) and Lot (PBUH), have we forgotten about them? They had disbelieving wives but they did not divorce them, rather they kept giving them Daw'ah as much as they could. They didn't divorce them even if they rejected Islam. They stayed with them in harmony till the time they died.
But I wonder since we are not living under the shari'a that Noah brought
You're right, we follow Islamic laws that have been derived from al Quran, sunnah and scholarly rulings. Sorry don't know how to put it better.
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Ansariyah
06-28-2010, 07:06 PM
But wasnt he aware of the fact that she wasn't practising be4 he married her? I'm sure he had some sort of a idea wat he was getting himself into? Now that this marriage has already started he should do everything he can to help her....But if she refuses to change her ways I suggest he speaks to an Imam immediately hence things get worse n children come into the play etc. Allah knows best.
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anonymous
06-28-2010, 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by Yanoorah
But wasnt he aware of the fact that she wasn't practising be4 he married her? I'm sure he had some sort of a idea wat he was getting himself into? Now that this marriage has already started he should do everything he can to help her....But if she refuses to change her ways I suggest he speaks to an Imam immediately hence things get worse n children come into the play etc. Allah knows best.
No because he didn't even care about that, as he only converted for the sake of marrying her. It's after he started looking into Islam that he converted and started praticing.
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