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ZaneHashmi
06-29-2010, 05:08 AM
There are rumors that he is Alexander The Great, his name meaning "The Two Horned One", but they both lived in different time periods. There are also scholars who say he is/was Cyrus The Great. I was wondering, any chance of him being Saladin (Salahuddin)?

Thank you brothers,
Allah be with you
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Muslimeen
06-30-2010, 01:28 PM
Adopted from Aicp Website.

Dhul Qarnayn, may Allah raise his rank, was a great Yemeni king as well as a pious man (waliyy). Allah gave him many extra-ordinary matters, and his story was mentioned in the Qur’an.
His name was as-Sa^b bin al-Hareth according to some scholars. Others said his name was as-Sa^b bin Dhi Mara’ed. He was the most famous among the Yemeni kings called the Tababi^ah of that era.
One of his grandsons recited a poem about him saying;
My grandfather Dhul Qarnayn was an undefeated Muslim king.
He traveled from East to West ganing a reign over all the lands
as was granted to him by Allah, the generous Lord.
Muslim scholars mentioned that Dhul Qarnayn’s minister was Prophet al-Khader who led his army. Dhul Qarnayn also met with Prophets Ibrahim and Isma^il, peace be upon them, when he traveled on foot from Yemen to honorable Makkah to perform Hajj. When Prophet Ibrahim learned of his arrival he greeted him, made du^a for him, and gave him general advice and guidance. While in Hijaz (1) Dhul Qarnayn circumambulated the Ka^bah and slaughtered animals in the company of both Prophets Ibrahim and Isma^il. He was offered a horse to ride but out of respect Dhul Qarnayn said, "I will not mount a horse in the land of Prophet Ibrahim." Prophet Ibrahim then gave him the good news that Allah had ordered the wind to carry him wherever he wished.

Dhul Qarnayn was granted many remarkable matters, among them was a long life and victory. Allah also gave him the knowledge of different landmarks and features of the earth. As a result, he conquered many cities and ruled lands ranging from the east to the west. Dhul Qarnayn mastered different languages, he could communicate with the people he ruled in their native language. Dhul Qarnayn was kind and compassionate and wise as he ruled. The inhabitants of the land he entered embraced Islam and were safe and prosperous; while those that refused were dishonored and shamed.
Illumination and darkness were also under Dhul Qarnayn’s command, by the will of Allah. If he traveled at night the path ahead of him would illuminate while the path behind him would remain dark. Sometimes darkness would be used as a weapon against enemies who attempted to fight him. Darkness would engulf them from all sides until they retreated. The darkness was used another time when one day he decided to travel west to the land where the sun sets.He found a nation living there. They were murderers and unjust people who spread misguidance. He gave them a choice between extreme punishment in this world and more punishment in the hereafter, or believing in God, performing good deeds and reaping the reward in the garden of Eden. Dhul Qarnayn stayed with them for a period of time spreading guidance and goodness.
After being near the place closer to where the sun sets, Dhul Qarnyan aspired to visit the place closer to where the sun rises. Making his way there, he reached a vast empty plain with no construction, mountains, or trees. There he found strange people. When the sun rose they would escape its intense heat by hiding in burrows they had dug, or diving underwater. They would emerge again after the sun had set.
At one time an army of soldiers came to this land and set up camp near these people. Concered for their visitors, residents advised them not to stay on lamd in time for the sun to rise." Stubbornly, the army replied, "We will not leave before the sun rises." As they observed the area around them they saw many skeleton bones. When they asked about the bones, the resident tribe told them, "These are the skeleton bones of another army who died when the sun rose over them sometime ago." Hearing this news and seeing the evidence, the army quickly fled.
Dhul Qarnayn witnessed this strange matter and continued on his way conquering reigning over every land he entered, supported by the victory that Allah granted him. Eventually, he reached a valley between two giant mountains. In this valley lived another strange tribe whose language was barely identifiable. Their neighbors were a wicked, malicious, a deviant group of people, Gog and Magog.
When the tribe in the valley realized that Dhul Qarnayn was a strong king with might and vigor they sought his help. He had years of experience, a vast kingdom, and numerous aides, so they asked him to build a barrier to separate them from their evil neighbors. Dhul Qarnayn agreed to their request. They offered to pay him for this service, but Dhul Qarnayn refused saying, “What Allah has bestowed upon me and given me is better than what you offer. I only ask that you help me with the labor and machinery needed to build this partition.”
As per his request, they brought him large iron slabs; each one weighing a qintar. He placed these iron blocks between the two mountains, one on top of the other. He started at the bottom and worked his way up to the peak. He then surrounded the iron sheets with charcoal and wood and started a fire. He gave orders to keep the flames strong and blow on it to intensify its temperature. The fire caused the iron blocks to melt. Then he poured melted copper mixed with lead on top of the iron; this made a solid, smooth barrier that extended from the valley to the top of the mountains. It reached a height of 250 dhira^ (equivalent to 125 meter). This barrier was difficult to climb because it was smooth and had no protrusions. It had no holes and was very difficult to break through.
When Dhul Qaryan completed building the barrier he said, “Allah facilitated this for us, by His mercy. When the Day of Judgment is near, this wall will be destroyed.” Thus, Dhul Qarnayn imprisoned Gog and Magog behind this barrier. Prophet Muhammad informed us that the people of Gog and Magog live long and do not die until they give birth to 1000 or more children. They will eventually breakthrough the iron partition and emerge with a huge population.
Everyday since that time, the people of Gog and Magog try to break through the barrier but fail. One day in the near future, closer to the approach of the Day of Judgement and after a long strenuous day of trying to break through, they say, “Tomorrow we will continue.” However, they come back the next day only to find the small hole that they opened was resealed. They do this everyday, until one day they say, “Tomorrow we will continue by the will of Allah." When they come back the next day they will find the hole from the previous day still open and from there they will continue digging through the barrier until they emerge. Their appearance will be one of the major signs that indicate the nearing of the Day of Judgement. May Allah protect us from its terrors and awes.
Dhul Qarnyan lived for hundreds of years, helping those in need, teaching and ruling according to Islam and ruling fairly. He lived his life preparing for the hereafter and died armed with good deeds and piety.
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'Abd Al-Maajid
06-30-2010, 01:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ZaneHashmi
There are rumors that he is Alexander The Great, his name meaning "The Two Horned One", but they both lived in different time periods. There are also scholars who say he is/was Cyrus The Great. I was wondering, any chance of him being Saladin (Salahuddin)?

Thank you brothers,
Allah be with you
Saladin cannot be Dhul Qarnain because Saladin lived in 12th century.:hmm: Correct me if I am wrong.
Reply

Muslimeen
06-30-2010, 01:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by abdulmajid
Saladin cannot be Dhul Qarnain because Saladin lived in 12th century.:hmm: Correct me if I am wrong.
Correct, Salahudin was well known for resisting and overpowering the crusades. A remarkable servant of Allah, (may allah be pleased with him).
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Muslimeen
06-30-2010, 01:53 PM
Salahuddin Ayyub (RA)

Although he loved peace, Salahuddin Ayyubi became one of the world's greatest warriors. He was born in Tekrit in 1138 CE when his father Ameer Najmudin was the ruler of Tekrit. He was brought up by his noble father and talented uncle, Asad-ud-din Shirkhu. Salahuddin was a very intelligent and noble person. He loved peace and never enjoyed fighting battles. But all changed when Salahuddin was ordered to go to Egypt with his uncle. He went to Egypt many times with his uncle to fight two enemies, the Franks and the Batnids. After his uncle's death, he became the commander and Vizier of Egypt. Salahuddin Ayyubi never lived in the palace. Instead, he lived in a small house near the mosque. Salahuddin had a great love for Islam and as the vizier and general of Egypt, he tried hard to root out the Crusaders. For this purpose, he maintained a strong army. He established peace and prosperity throughout the country. From the beginning, many prejudiced Egyptian ministers disliked him. When they saw he was winning the hearts of the Egyptian people they did many conspiracies against him but due to Salahuddin's wisdom, they were defeated. When the Fatmid caliph Al Aziz died, Salahuddin became the ruler of Egypt. When Salahuddin took over Damascus the people opened the gates of the city to him and greeted him warmly.

The Crusaders were not happy by Salahuddin's increasing power and success. Uniting their forces, they planned a decisive attack on Muslim area. Battle of Hittin took place. Muslims won under the leadership of Salahuddin. Thousands of Crusaders were arrested. Salahuddin treated the prisoners with tolerance.

In 1187 CE, Salahuddin conquered Jerusalem. Thousands of Crusaders were arrested. However, when their mothers, sisters, and wives appealed to Salahuddin, he released them. Many crusaders were ransomed. However, he paid for many of them. In addition, he provided them transport, etc. He allowed neither massacre nor looting. He gave free pardon to all citizens. He even arranged for their traveling. He granted freedom to Christians to leave the city if they paid a small tribute. Salahuddin paid it, himself, for about ten thousand poor people. His brother paid it for seven thousand people. Salahuddin also allocated one of the gates of the city for people who were too poor to pay anything that they leave from there.

On Friday 27th Rajab 583 AH, Salahuddin entered Jerusalem. After entering the city they went straight to the Mosque and cleaned it. Then for the first time in more then 80 years, the people of Jerusalem heard the Azan (call of prayer) from Al Aqsa Mosque.

Albalagh.net
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syed_z
07-02-2010, 10:52 AM
Asalaam O Alaikum to All...

As the Brother Muslimeen Mentioned from Quran the Story of Dhul Qarnayn... i would like to explain here...that it was the Jewish Rabbis in Madinah who had posed the Question to pagan Makkans to ask the Prophet Muhammad if he can answer this Question... they posed three questions and among them one of them was about the Mighty Ruler who had travelled throughout the earth and had established Justice...

(18:83) “And they (the Rabbis) ask thee (Oh Muhammad) concerning Dhūl Qarnain. Say, I will relate to you something of his story.”


And Dhul Qarnayn means the One who has Two Horns or the Two Horned One..... Dhul Qarnayn means the "Two Horned One"... Qarn means "Horns" "epoch".. "Ages"...

Most Commentators believed that "Two Horned One" may represent the 2 Horns as symbolism of Very powerful... but Allah (swt) knows best...


we have to see under the Words of Quran that Dhul Qarnay was a Believer in One God... as in Quran Allah (swt) mentions him...


(18:84) Behold, We established him securely on earth, and endowed him with (the knowledge of) the right means to achieve anything.



Allah (swt) establishing him and giving him all means of resources to rule the world with Justice shows, his Faith in One God, and So there is NO WAY Alexander the great, could be him, because Alexander the Great (who is shown on his coins with 2 horns) was worshiper of many gods and followed the Greek Mythology! The reason why Allah (swt) stresses Dhul Qarnay in the Quran is due to his faith (Iman)....



He was Just ruler as we can see from the rest of the Verses of the Surah Al Kahf 18:83-98


The main reason why Allah (swt) mentions Him is to give the Muslims, the example of a Just Ruler and the Basis of His Just Rulership was due to his Faith in One God.... and Allah (swt) stresses the fact in the Quran, that Just Rulership can only maintain its structure so long as it is Established on the Pillar of Faith in Allah (swt)... and so it is this reason why Allah mentions his story, to learn lesson for his way of rulership, and not for the purpose of legend.


Cyrus the Great


How ever there are many Commentators in the past who have said that He could have been Cyrus the Great... Why is that... ?


according to the Bible Prophet Daniel saw in his vision that the united kingdom of Media and Persia was like a two-horned ram before the rise of the Greeks. (Dan. 8: 3,20). The Jews had a very high opinion of "The Two-horned" one, because it was his invasion which brought about the downfall of the kingdom of Babylon and the liberation of the Israelis.


The Jews were enslaved under the Babylonian Kingdom (present day Iraq) and Prophet Daniyal (daniel) (a.s) was sent as a Prophet among them, and gave them the good news of a Two Horned one who would liberate them. This captivity they were in, happened during the time of 500 BC when Nebuchadnezzar (Bakht Nasr) took over Jerusalem and killed thousands of Jews and captured others, and brought them to Babylon. Once they were liberated because of this Persian King, named Cyrus the Great, he gave them the permission to rebuilt their temple in Jerusalem and move back to their city. That is why the Jews have a very high opinion of him. So since he was a ruler of Vast empire it could be that he was Dhul Qarnayn. And so it could be this reason why Jews posed this Question to pagans to ask Muhammad (Saw).



Also this Verse

(18:94) “They said: O Dhul Qarnain! Gog and Magog corrupt (our) territory with acts of great oppression and corruption. Can we offer you tribute (i.e., pay you) in order that you might erect a barrier between us and them?”



.. it is said that Cyrus the Great alo had his empire stretched towards the North of Persia, towards the Mountains of Caucasus from where the Wild Tribes of Central Asia, used to make inroads towards the civilized nations and wreaked havoc. Also there are many Gates and walls even uptil today to be found near the Caucasus Mountains between Black Sea and Caspian Seas, which are attributed to those Persian Emperors who used to build them to keep the wild tribes away! Tartars, Mongols, Huns and Scythians , all of these were settled up North in Central Asia, near present day Russia.



One More Misconception that people have ... that Wall of China is one of those Walls of Dhul Qarnay, NO it was made by Chinese Dynasty and has nothing to do with the Story of Dhul Qarnay, and Chinese are NOT Gog and Magog!


Salaam :)
Reply

thunderman
07-02-2010, 05:47 PM
Concered for their visitors, residents advised them not to stay on lamd in time for the sun to rise." Stubbornly, the army replied, "We will not leave before the sun rises." As they observed the area around them they saw many skeleton bones. When they asked about the bones, the resident tribe told them, "These are the skeleton bones of another army who died when the sun rose over them sometime ago." Hearing this news and seeing the evidence, the army quickly fled.
Do you seriously believe in this?

Honestly, there is no place where the sun sets or rises. It sets/rises all over the planet due to our rotation. You do NOT come any closer to the setting of the sun by going to the west because the sun first of all doesnt set. And what is all of this about skeleton? It does NOT get hotter for you to go east than to go west! I am interested if there are any more incredible legends and myths about this? How about people throwing things at the sun when it rises? Or other nonsense?
Reply

aamirsaab
07-02-2010, 06:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by thunderman
Do you seriously believe in this?

Honestly, there is no place where the sun sets or rises. It sets/rises all over the planet due to our rotation.
It's in relation to where he was at the time....in this case, it's talking about sunrise (or morning). Obviously, when it says sets, it's referring to night time.

You do NOT come any closer to the setting of the sun by going to the west because the sun first of all doesnt set.
THis argument was not even in the text to begin with...

And what is all of this about skeleton?
''These are the skeleton bones of another army who died when the sun rose over them sometime ago"

It does NOT get hotter for you to go east than to go west!
It only mentioned he travelled to the west. It had nothng to do with it being hotter or not..

You are making an argument out of nothing.
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thunderman
07-02-2010, 07:24 PM
The sun rises in the East. Or at least so it is according to our vision. But that story says that this man reached the far east and the place the sun rises and these people were burned out by the sun. This is what I was speaking about
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syed_z
07-02-2010, 07:45 PM
Ok Good Concern thunderman... your right ... that story is NOT true... not to offend any one, but just trying to make it clear, the Story of Dhul Qarnayn if studied from Quran does NOT say that... this story quoted by Brother Muslimeeen is NOT in the QUran...
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ebuhadha
07-12-2010, 09:20 PM
Prophet (savs) said: "From a persons good islam is also not being concerned with that which does not belong to him (benefits him/her)" (Tirmidhi, hadithun hasenun-sahih!)

I would suggest to take whatever you find from the Quran and the authentic sunnah. That will be enough for you, believe me. And the oolama said "If you give your whole life to knowladge it will only give you a part of it". They where talking about the Quran and the Sunnah; hence, it is enough for us to study these two sources and not wonder around, when religion is concerned. Allah knows best.

Measelam.
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أحمد
07-29-2010, 07:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ZaneHashmi
There are rumors that he is Alexander The Great, his name meaning "The Two Horned One", but they both lived in different time periods. There are also scholars who say he is/was Cyrus The Great. I was wondering, any chance of him being Saladin (Salahuddin)?

Thank you brothers,
Allah be with you
:sl:

ذوالقرنين wasn't Salahuddin Ayyubi. A research carried out by IB and UI users in 2005 found several possibilities about who ذوالقرنين was; including leaders in ancient Crete (near Greece), Sweden, Caribbean and a handful of other places.

The phrase ذوالقرنين is from two words (not including ال, "the" determinant). ذو is the thing or person (in such case we are talking about a person); sometime translated as person or companion. In the case of ذاالنون; its translated as the companion of the fish.

قرنين is the dual form of قرن, which is translated as generation, offspring, nation and horn.

The understanding of ذوالقرنين generally is a man with two horns, although some valid opinions state two children and two nations.

:wa:
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sabr*
07-29-2010, 10:52 PM
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):


Surah Al Imran 3:7

It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad ) the Book (this Qur'an). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book [and those are the Verses of Al-Ahkam (commandments, etc.), Al-Fara'id (obligatory duties) and Al-Hudud (legal laws for the punishment of thieves, adulterers, etc.)]; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials, etc.), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding. (Tafsir At-Tabari).
(Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan translation)

Jazakumullahu Khair
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أحمد
07-29-2010, 11:03 PM
:sl:

Its not a mission of seeking hidden or ambiguous meanings, rather one to research a historical figure; a satisfaction for curiosity, not for questioning or messing around with the guidance from Allah, nor for the purposes of following ambiguities.

وَإِذۡ قَالَ إِبۡرَٲهِـۧمُ رَبِّ أَرِنِى ڪَيۡفَ تُحۡىِ ٱلۡمَوۡتَىٰ*ۖ قَالَ أَوَلَمۡ تُؤۡمِن*ۖ قَالَ بَلَىٰ وَلَـٰكِن لِّيَطۡمَٮِٕنَّ قَلۡبِى*ۖ قَالَ فَخُذۡ أَرۡبَعَةً۬ مِّنَ ٱلطَّيۡرِ فَصُرۡهُنَّ إِلَيۡكَ ثُمَّ ٱجۡعَلۡ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ جَبَلٍ۬ مِّنۡہُنَّ جُزۡءً۬ا ثُمَّ ٱدۡعُهُنَّ يَأۡتِينَكَ سَعۡيً۬ا*ۚ وَٱعۡلَمۡ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ۬

And when Abraham said (unto his Lord): My Lord! Show me how Thou givest life to the dead, He said: Dost thou not believe? Abraham said: Yea, but (I ask) in order that my heart may be at ease. (His Lord) said: Take four of the birds and cause them to incline unto thee, then place a part of them on each hill, then call them, they will come to thee in haste, and know that Allah is Mighty, Wise. (2:260)

:wa:
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أحمد
07-29-2010, 11:03 PM
:sl:

Its not a mission of seeking hidden or ambiguous meanings, rather one to research a historical figure; a satisfaction for curiosity, not for questioning or messing around with the guidance from Allah, nor for the purposes of following ambiguities.

وَإِذۡ قَالَ إِبۡرَٲهِـۧمُ رَبِّ أَرِنِى ڪَيۡفَ تُحۡىِ ٱلۡمَوۡتَىٰ*ۖ قَالَ أَوَلَمۡ تُؤۡمِن*ۖ قَالَ بَلَىٰ وَلَـٰكِن لِّيَطۡمَٮِٕنَّ قَلۡبِى*ۖ قَالَ فَخُذۡ أَرۡبَعَةً۬ مِّنَ ٱلطَّيۡرِ فَصُرۡهُنَّ إِلَيۡكَ ثُمَّ ٱجۡعَلۡ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ جَبَلٍ۬ مِّنۡہُنَّ جُزۡءً۬ا ثُمَّ ٱدۡعُهُنَّ يَأۡتِينَكَ سَعۡيً۬ا*ۚ وَٱعۡلَمۡ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ۬

And when Abraham said (unto his Lord): My Lord! Show me how Thou givest life to the dead, He said: Dost thou not believe? Abraham said: Yea, but (I ask) in order that my heart may be at ease. (His Lord) said: Take four of the birds and cause them to incline unto thee, then place a part of them on each hill, then call them, they will come to thee in haste, and know that Allah is Mighty, Wise. (2:260)

:wa:
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sabr*
07-30-2010, 12:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by {A}
:sl:

Its not a mission of seeking hidden or ambiguous meanings, rather one to research a historical figure; a satisfaction for curiosity, not for questioning or messing around with the guidance from Allah, nor for the purposes of following ambiguities.
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Nabi Ibrahim (AS) was instructed by Allah to fullfill a commandment. What commandment is this thread or ayat enjoining Muslims to do as an obligation?
Reply

أحمد
07-30-2010, 12:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sabr*
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Nabi Ibrahim (AS) was instructed by Allah to fullfill a commandment. What commandment is this thread or ayat enjoining Muslims to do as an obligation?
Yes, Ibrahim (as) was instructed by Allah about a sacrifice of his son, but this passage isn't about that.
Reply

أحمد
07-30-2010, 12:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sabr*
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Nabi Ibrahim (AS) was instructed by Allah to fullfill a commandment. What commandment is this thread or ayat enjoining Muslims to do as an obligation?
Yes, Ibrahim (as) was instructed by Allah about a sacrifice of his son, but this passage isn't about that.
Reply

sabr*
07-30-2010, 01:30 AM
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

What is the intent for seeking the actual identity of Dhul Qarnayn and how does it assist in Muslims fullfilling our obligations or Aqidah? This is a very clear question.
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أحمد
07-30-2010, 01:08 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by sabr*
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

What is the intent for seeking the actual identity of Dhul Qarnayn and how does it assist in Muslims fullfilling our obligations or Aqidah? This is a very clear question.
قَدۡ خَلَتۡ مِنۡ قَبۡلِكُمۡ سُنَنٌ ۙ فَسِيۡرُوۡا فِى الۡاَرۡضِ فَانۡظُرُوۡا كَيۡفَ كَانَ عَاقِبَةُ الۡمُكَذِّبِيۡنَ

Systems have passed away before you. Do but travel in the land and see the nature of the consequence for those who did deny (the messengers). (3:137)

Researching on Dhul Qarnayn creates room for understanding history; يأجوج and مأجوج being part of that history, and as a sign of يوم القيامة. This isn't a treasure hunt, nor should anyone go around chasing thin air.

:wa:
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Scimitar
10-21-2014, 04:08 PM
I chased... and found... is anyone really interested?
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greenhill
10-21-2014, 05:33 PM
I'm always interested. But not much good at riddles..

Pray tell. :D

But I will have to read again this thread.. been a while...
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Scimitar
10-21-2014, 06:38 PM
ok, here's an advanced teaser:

In search of the Barrier... how does one search for something which one believes no longer exists? See, my conundrum was in searching for a barrier which i believe to have already collapsed - how does one find something which doesn't exist anymore? I followed method, that's how - instead of looking for a barrier - I looked for signs that a barrier may have once been in certain locations, hence how I found that image of the sea shell shaped mountains in Siberia - which could very well have had the barrier placed within its confines, and Allah knows best.


I could have stopped there, and sat smug in the knowledge that I found something which could be it... but I didn't. Simply because (and bro Ministry of Truth can attest to this) simply because my mind does not rest when it is chasing history...


...Alhamdulillah for that, because I found something which has put me in a bit of a conundrum once again. Please take a look at the following:


























I find it ultimately interesting that the length/height of the barrier from its clearly defined left side matches almost perfectly to the measurement from the seemingly highest to lowest point... what is further of interest to me is the fact that the foot of the barrier is narrower than the top of it, as this also attests to the idea of the barrier being built between two cliffs opened at the top like sea shells...


... Allahu Akbar and HE knows best!

Scimi

NOTE: for previous posts relating to Gog MAgog and Dhul Qarnayn, please refer to this thread here: http://wup-forum.com/in-search-of-go...og-t25494.html but I've only shared some things here...
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Scimitar
10-21-2014, 06:47 PM
one more teaser :D

[Taken from one of my posts in WUP:]

In the far north east of the Russian autonomous regions of Siberia - past the Verkhoyansk range and settled into the momsky mountains, we find the following...



the mountains the wall was built between are actually two separate mountains adjoined at the bottom, and opened at the top - looking exactly like a cleft open sea shell as described in the Quran... I have seen this shell like mountain pass - and it took my breath away.


I have the high definition pic but I am not willing to share this atm.


What I will tell you is this:


It's geographically located at the one location where a barrier would most definitely land lock an entire nation. No other place on earth has this geographical occurance withn mountain ranges as passes are prevalent amongst all mountain ranges. Also this correlates with Al Idrisis infamous world map, the Tabulus Rogeriana - which he was commissioned to make by the Sicilian King Roger - who was in fact - A VIKING... as if that wasn't enough of a clue - however, at this point I am probably confusing some of you... anyway,


Clue - beyond vekhoyansk - lies the Autonomous regions about which very little is known prior the year 700AD... as if that wasn't enough of a clue, if you saw the the mountains adjoined, hollowed out from the inside like the concave you'd expect from the inside of a sea shell - you'd most likely be convinced.


Scimi
Reply

greenhill
10-22-2014, 04:41 AM
Too many things are not what they appear on the surface. And often requires patience and the mind being free from preconceived ideas... maybe not so accurate, at least not fixed in understanding or belief.

Peace :shade:
Reply

Scimitar
11-06-2014, 04:33 PM
In Arabic translations of the Old Testament, the word "Dhul-Qarnayn" (Hebrew: Ba`al Haqqərānayim בעל הקרנים) appears once in the Old Testament, in the Book of Daniel 8:20:

[9]أَمَّا الْكَبْشُ الَّذِي رَأَيْتَهُ ذَا الْقَرْنَيْنِ فَهُوَ مُلُوكُ مَادِي وَفَارِسَ

Translation: The ram that you saw, the one with the two horns, represents the kings of Media and Persia.

And there's a lot more than that... Cyrus was actually crowned twice as a King - once as a child, once as an adult... amazing story that one. The Jews know it well, since it was Herodotus who penned it within 70 years of Cyrus' death...

Herodotus was a Jewish historian who is/was very well respected in historical circles since antiquity to the modern age.

I must tell you though, that story is possibly the real reason why the account in the surah starts with "they ask thee [O Muhammad], About Dhul Qarnayn, say to them I shall recite to you a remembrance about him" - at that point, the Jews were already looking down at their feet in embarrassment because a story that was NOT recorded in the Old Testament, but was known only amongst the Jews of the time period - was somehow knowledge to Muhammad pbuh? How? How, unless he really was a prophet of God? This really got the Jews thinking... you know anything about the tababyiyah King who placed his subjects in Yathrib 1000 years before Muhammad pbuh was born, so that they could identify the prophet who would be born in Arabia?

That's right - the Jews were waiting for a prophet to come to them - a saviour, liberator - just like Cyrus was to them... imagine the parallel too - only two men in the world were given the task of propagating Islam to the whole world, one was a king, (Dhul Qarnayn) and the other was a prophet (Muhammad pbuh)... the jews were clever in their question...

That's what is truly amazing me... and some other nuanced understandings also.

i'll leave it here for now.

If you're interested to hear about the story of Cyrus being crowned twice as King - http://www.kingmixers.com/CLAS149/Herodotus1b.pdf

Scimi
Reply

syed_z
11-06-2014, 09:45 PM
Asalaam O Alaikum....

Bro Scimi,

Nice to see your efforts your putting in to this subject, May Allah (swt) help you get knowledge on this subject which can help us as well InshA'Allah.

My thoughts on your info is, that the End times hadith mention the drinking of water of Sea of Galilee by the Tribes of Gog and Magog are sufficient proof that they have been released and they are drinking it right now, i.e. Lake Tiberias. The water is being drunk by European Jews who have come to the Holy Land to claim it as their own without having any descent from Abraham, Ishaaq or Yaqub (a.s).

Secondly, I believe that Tawil (Interpretation) of the Story of Dhul Qarnayn is more important for us to understand, even though the search for the personality is also important.

The Tawil which obviously explains that Dul Qarnayn, one of the 2 'Ages' i.e. Qarn means Age and Qarnayn would mean '2 Ages', which means the 'One of 2 Ages' meaning his story had significance in that Age (Qarn) which was when he actually lived and created the Wall and now the Story of Yajuj and Majuj is important for us in the Second Age (Qarn) when they would be released.

Since the Water in Lake Tiberias is already drying up and the end of times Ahadith do mention them gathering in and around the Holy Land of Israel, it is very safe to assume that we have entered the Second of the Two Qarnayn, whether Cyrus the Great or no, it doesn't make much difference, because the enemy has been identified and we need to protect ourselves and explain their New World Order (Gog and Magog World Order as opposed to the Just World Order of Dhul Qarnayn) to the world that this Unjust World Order of theirs is something which Quran already predicted 1400 years ago and which should open the eyes of the Muslim and Non Muslim World, how brilliant this Quran is which explains everything (An Nahl 16:89):

(41:53) We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it (Quran) is the truth.


It is this Truth as it even explains the World Order being run from Washington and the Israel of tomorrow. This Quran explains the Fasad which has spread like fire around the world today.

Your search is very important, no doubt, may be this way you may find some very important clues which can help us all understand the subject even better, but I believe that giving importance to the 2nd Qarn is even more crucial.

Please keep sharing and InshA'Allah I'll share what I come across, I'll start doing a research of my own and share with you guys since you bumped this topic back on the board. :)
Reply

Samiun
11-07-2014, 12:35 AM
:sl: epic stuff from bro scimi awesome job though unfortunately I left wup in 09 when I discovered it was a shiah site or the beliefs are influenced by it
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Scimitar
11-07-2014, 12:46 AM
Jazak Allah Khair for the post brother Syed, I also sponsor the same as you in this regard.

The words "Dhul Qarnayn" - are really amazing, in fact, from my study into the relationship of the name Dhul Qarnayn to the personality of Cyrus - I find that however we apply the term - it fits - that's amazing.

Now, for me - this study has been spanning years on and off. Initially I found someone on the net who (non Muslim) claimed that Dhul Qarnayn must be satan because he has 2 horns, further they assumed the Quran was a book of fairytales, due to the apocalyptic scenario of G&M breaking out of the barrier and ruining everything in the world - they assumed this would happen in a very short period of time - being apocalyptic in nature - BUT - the Quran is a very nuanced book, and he was reading it to confirm his own bias:

He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding. Quran 3:7

We've seen the islamophobes often play this card - and often they shy away in embarrassment when the context is defined.

From the Mishneh Torah, Laws of Kings 11:4

And if a king shall arise from among the House of David, studying Torah and occupied with commandments like his father David, according to the written and oral Torah, and he will impel all of Israel to follow it and to strengthen breaches in its observance, and will fight God's wars, this one is to be treated as if he were the anointed one. If he succeeded and built the Holy Temple in its proper place and gathered the dispersed ones of Israel together,this is indeed the anointed one for certain, and he will mend the entire world to worship the Lord together, as it is stated: "For then I shall turn for the nations a clear tongue, so that they will all proclaim the Name of the Lord, and to worship Him with a united resolve"(Zephaniah 3:9).

Although Cyrus was reputedly a Persian, he was mixed race - meaning, he was both a Persian and a Mede - and in this coupling it is more than possible that his lineage could have extended to the House of David (peace be upon him) and Allah knows best the truth of this.


The whole verse is seemingly describing none other than Cyrus.


1) he was a great King [And if a king shall arise from among the House of David,]


2) he studied the Torah under the guidance of the Jews after freeing them from captivity in Babel, and returning them to Jerusalem [studying Torah and occupied with commandments like his father David, according to the written and oral Torah,]


3) Cyrus had a great army and fought in the way of righteousness [and he will impel all of Israel to follow it and to strengthen breaches in its observance, and will fight God's wars]


4) thus he was given the title of Messiah [this one is to be treated as if he were the anointed one]


5) he required that all the Jews who were so inclined - to go to jerusalem and help to rebuld the temple (of Solomon AS) and those that were unable to go, for them to send riches in the aid of the rebuilding as part of their worship [If he succeeded and built the Holy Temple in its proper place and gathered the dispersed ones of Israel together,this is indeed the anointed one for certain]


6) Though it is not in the historical record (due to the latter kingdom not being material but spiritual in the quest to spread monotheism [remember, history only records material empires]) we find that it would be more than possible for Cyrus to promote Monotheism to those he had conquered once he had established the rebuilding of the temple in jerusalem, and henceforth embarked on his new found zeal (after getting the education from the Jews regarding Monotheism) to spread monotheism to the furthest west and east of the land. [and he will mend the entire world to worship the Lord together, as it is stated: "For then I shall turn for the nations a clear tongue, so that they will all proclaim the Name of the Lord, and to worship Him with a united resolve]


Henceforth, we find the following understanding of the word Messiah from the record:


al-Masīḥ (proper name, pronounced [mæˈsiːħ]) is the Arabic word for messiah. In modern Arabic, it is used as one of the many titles of Jesus pbuh. Masīḥ is used by Arab Christians as well as Muslims, and is written as Yasūʿ al-Masih (يسوع المسيح ) by Arab Christians or ʿĪsā al-Masīḥ (عيسى المسيح) by Muslims.

The word al-Masīḥ literally means "the anointed", "the traveller", or the "one who cures by caressing".


references: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah#cite_note-13 and Badawi, Elsaid; Haleem, Muhammad Abdel (2008). Arabic-English Dictionary of Qu'ranic Usage. Koninklijke Brill. p. 881.


So when the Quraish asked the Jews of Yathrib on how to test the Prophet Muhammad regarding his prophethood, one of the questions the Jews gave to the Quraish to test Muhammad pbuh with was "Tell us of"the traveller" who travelled the worlds West and East"


Seems the case for Cyrus being Dhul Qarnayn is almost set in stone, And Allah knows best.


EDIT: to put this in perspective - read the following,


Cyrus the Great figures in the Hebrew Bible as the patron and deliverer of the Jews. He is mentioned 23 times by name and alluded to several times more. From these statements it appears that Cyrus the Great, king of Persia, was the monarch under whom the Babylonian captivity ended, for according to the Bible, in the first year of his reign he was prompted by God to make a decree that the Temple in Jerusalem should be rebuilt and that such Jews as cared to might return to their land for this purpose. Moreover, he showed his interest in the project by sending back with them the sacred vessels which had been taken from the First Temple and a considerable sum of money with which to buy building materials.


Cyrus the Great is unconditionally praised in the Jewish sources. It is likely that, after the Persian conquest of Babylon, Cyrus had commenced his relationship with the Jewish leaders in exile, and that he later was considered as a messiah sent by God.


The Hebrew Bible states that Cyrus issued the decree of liberation to the Jews. Cyrus's edict for the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem marked a great epoch in the history of the Jewish people. The babylonian Clay Cylinder - also attests the same, barring a few details - namely the mentioning of Bel and Nabu, and Marduk - whom were Gods, which he venerated before his conversion to the Islam of the time - todays Judaism is rather alien from that version.


Speculation abounds to the reasoning for Cyrus' release of the Jews from Babylon. One argument being that Cyrus was a follower of Zoroaster, the monotheistic prophet: Zoroastrianism played a dominant religious role in Persia throughout its history until the Islamic conquest. As such, he would feel a kindred spirit with the monotheistic Jews. Who then perfected for Cyrus, his belief in Monotheism. And we find in Ezra1:1-8, indicates "the Lord inspired King Cyrus of Persia to issue this proclamation".


The Works of Flavius Josephus ,Translated by William Whiston


HOW CYRUS, KING OF THE PERSIANS, DELIVERED THE JEWS OUT OF BABYLON AND SUFFERED THEM TO RETURN TO THEIR OWN COUNTRY AND TO BUILD THEIR TEMPLE, FOR WHICH WORK HE GAVE THEM MONEY.


1. In the first year of the reign of Cyrus which was the seventieth from the day that our people were removed out of their own land into Babylon, God commiserated the captivity and calamity of these poor people, according as he had foretold to them by Jeremiah the prophet, before the destruction of the city, that after they had served Nebuchadnezzar and his posterity, and after they had undergone that servitude seventy years, he would restore them again to the land of their fathers, and they should build their temple, and enjoy their ancient prosperity. And these things God did afford them; for he stirred up the mind of Cyrus, and made him write this throughout all Asia: "Thus saith Cyrus the king: Since God Almighty hath appointed me to be king of the habitable earth, I believe that he is that God which the nation of the Israelites worship; for indeed he foretold my name by the prophets, and that I should build him a house at Jerusalem, in the country of Judea.".


This was known to Cyrus by his reading the book which Isaiah left behind him of his prophecies; for this prophet said that God had spoken thus to him in a secret vision: "My will is, that Cyrus, whom I have appointed to be king over many and great nations, send back my people to their own land, and build my temple."

This was foretold by Isaiah one hundred and forty years before the temple was demolished.


Meaning, that a prophecy was fulfilled and Cyrus was the vessel by which the prophecy was fulfilled.


"FOR HE STIRRED UP THE MIND OF CYRUS" - reads very similar to "We (Allah) said (by inspiration)" - Al Kahf, ayah 86 excerpt from tafsir.


And Allah knows best, the truth of every thing. Ameen.


Scimi
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Scimitar
11-07-2014, 12:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Samiun
:sl: epic stuff from bro scimi awesome job though unfortunately I left wup in 09 when I discovered it was a shiah site or the beliefs are influenced by it
wow you was there in '09??? that's when the forum must have been buzzing with members - nowadays it's a ghost town :D

For the record guys, I am Sunni :)

Scimi
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Samiun
11-07-2014, 12:55 AM
Yea it was but I find it depressing at the time because I was into their series and I did not really understand the end of times based on their intepretation and went paranoid lol.

What I meant by shiah they claimed in one of their videos that one of the sahabahs was poisoned when I discovered it was a belief from the shiah and the madinah ulama actually spoke about it circa 10' if I recalled.
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Scimitar
11-07-2014, 01:18 AM
Yeah, well, far as I understand it, Achernahr started the series with Abdullah Hashem and Noreagaaa, Abdullah Hashem is shia, and he's gone off into the esoteric side - well known.

Personally, I thought the series was fresh and good for it's time - it wasn't meant to simply appeal to Muslims, the idea was to promote an Islamic view of the times we live in - and in that sense - they achieved what they set out to do... the forum attracted not just Muslims, but Christians, Hindu's etc etc and even a few Jews - but as time went on, and the original three founders of WUP went their separate ways - the forum started lose its momentum. Bushwackk arrived back in 2011 and things went crazy until he left...now, I find that not many are on the truth movement - bushwackk closed his channel. He has an amazing series called Muhammad pbuh in the bible... worth checking out if you can find it.

Other than that - it's been hit and miss. As you may be aware, I closed my YT channel down earlier this year, due to nature of the content in my videos - I found that people were taking a very anti-Saud stance in the comments, and I found an hadeeth in Bukhari book 88 which forced me to reconsider how I present information because the way people who follow whimsical thought processes interpret the info - can be a trial in itself.

Well, I have a new channel now, but no vids and its kinda just sitting there doing nothing atm. Nothing that is, until I start to release some videos on it once again - in sha Allah.

Scimi
Reply

MarlaJohnson
11-07-2014, 06:49 AM
U r Rite
Reply

Scimitar
11-07-2014, 02:45 PM
Assalaam alaikum sister marla. Welcome to the forum and this topic.. please feel free to share your viewd with us.

Scimi
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greenhill
11-07-2014, 04:40 PM
Salaams Scimitar,

Very interesting points you are making. I can wrap my head around it. Just brings me to ask if there is any mention of any name resembling Iskandar in the Quran? Is he only mentioned as Dhul Qarnain?

Peace :shade:
Reply

Scimitar
11-07-2014, 07:29 PM
No Iskandar in the Quran, remember, Iskandar is the Turkish version for the name Alexander... infact, in Turkey you can get a kebab called Iskandar Kebab because they put a dollop of yoghurt on top :D no iron, no copper :D just yoghurt :D

Some people think that Iskandar sound similar to Dhul Qarnayn, but the philology of the term Iskandar is dierctly related to the name Alexander, and not the term Dhul Qarnayn, which is a metaphorical naming of a great King whom I am identifying as Cyrus Of Persia. The same who free'd the Jews from Babylonian captivity.

The connections I have made so far, I haven't found to be explained away the way I understand them. I've taken the critical approach of trying to debunk my theory because in all honesty - I didn't want it to be Dhul Qarnayn... my bias wanted it to be the man who helped Ibraheem AS at the ber sheba wells - however that story has some of the weakest logic to it I have found and so I cannot place any providence in a theory which alludes that the companion of Dhul Qarnayn was Khidr AS when clearly, Khidr is mentioned in the very same Surah but in relation to Musa AS, and Ibraheem AS doesn't even get a mention in the Surah together with Khidr AS.

Further, the Quran states the following: And We did not grant to any man before you eternity [on earth]; so if you die - would they be eternal? - 21:34

This is clear evidence that no man is immortal in their human body, and further - there is absolutely no contextual proof that Khidr AS lived before or beyond the time of Musa AS.

Hence, any idea that Khidr AS was a companion of Dhul Qarnayn do not follow any logic in which sticks in my opinion. And therefore, I neglect these tales as mere fanciful cravings of story tellers to dramatize and confuse events which are really simple to understand.

Once the evidence for Cyrus started to stack up, I found myself in-between a rock and a hard place - I didn't want it to be Cyrus, but little by little - the pieces started to appear and fit together - and now I am convinced that Cyrus was the person alluded to as the Dhul Qarnayn from Al Kahf 83-99. I remember discussing this bro M.OT from WUP, and he also said exactly the same, that he would have preferred it to be the man who helped in Ibraheem AS but the contextualised story makes no sense and follows no logic in light of Quran.

Cyrus, is the best option and Allah knows best.

Thank you for the interest bro Greenhill, keep the posts flowing brother :statisfie

Scimi
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syed_z
11-07-2014, 08:57 PM
Asalaam O Alaikum bro Scimi

Thanks for sharing the info. A lot of historical evidence during the time of return of the Jews to the Holy Land by the Persian King named Cyrus and his rule over many parts of the land, very much resembles the Dhul Qarnayn of the Quran.

format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
From the Mishneh Torah, Laws of Kings 11:4

And if a king shall arise from among the House of David, studying Torah and occupied with commandments like his father David, according to the written and oral Torah, and he will impel all of Israel to follow it and to strengthen breaches in its observance, and will fight God's wars, this one is to be treated as if he were the anointed one. If he succeeded and built the Holy Temple in its proper place and gathered the dispersed ones of Israel together,this is indeed the anointed one for certain, and he will mend the entire world to worship the Lord together, as it is stated: "For then I shall turn for the nations a clear tongue, so that they will all proclaim the Name of the Lord, and to worship Him with a united resolve"(Zephaniah 3:9).

Although Cyrus was reputedly a Persian, he was mixed race - meaning, he was both a Persian and a Mede - and in this coupling it is more than possible that his lineage could have extended to the House of David (peace be upon him) and Allah knows best the truth of this.
This however would be doubtful to say because the above Verses that you have shared is very much resembling the prediction coming and rule of Masih Isa ibn Maryam (a.s) in and around the Holy Land, after he has defeated Dajjal, the False Masih.

(3:45) Lo! The angels said "O Mary! Behold, God sends thee the glad tidings, through a word from Him, (of a son) who shall become known as the Christ Jesus, son of Mary, of great honour in this world and the life to come, and (shall be) of those who are drawn near unto God. (Muhammad Asad)

Asad comments on the Word Christ: "whose name shall be The Anointed (Al Masih)". The designation Al Masih is the Arabicized form of Aramaic Meshiha which in turn is derived from the Hebrew Mahsiah, 'The Anointed' - a term frequently applied in the Bible to Hebrew Kings, whose accession to power would be consecrated by a touch with holy oil taken from the Temple. This anointment appears to have been so important a rite among the Hebrews that the term 'The Anointed' became in the course of time more or less synonymous with 'King'. Its application to Jesus may have been due to the widespread conviction among his contemporaries (references to which are found in several places in the Synoptic Gospels) that he was descended in direct - and obviously legitimate line from the Royal House of David. (It is to be noted that this could not have been related to his mother's side because Mary belonged to the priestly class descending from Aaron, thus to the Tribe of Levi, one of the Sons of Jacob, while David descended from the Tribe of Judah) Whatever may have been the historical circumstances, it is evident that the honorific "The Anointed" was applied to Jesus in his own lifetime. In the Greek version of the Gospels - which is undoubtedly based on a now lost Aramaic original - this designation is correctly translated as Christos ( a noun derived from Greek Verb Chriein "To Anoint"): and since it is in this form - "The Christ" - that the designation Al-Masih has achieved in all Western Languages.

So the Prophecy which you've shared above I believe applies very much to Al Masih Isa Ibn Maryam (a.s) instead of Cyrus, who would rule the world from Jerusalem, once he defeats and kills the False Masih Dajjal after his Second Arrival. The "Annointed One" or 'The King' or Al Masih, very much applies to Jesus (a.s) and no one else as he was foretold in the Bible that he would bring the Glory Days of Children of Israel back to them, The Glory Days of Solomon (a.s) as Solomon was the 1st one to build the Temple. He i.e. Jesus (a.s) would have to built the Temple or Masjid of David (a.s) as we know it because Zionist Israel will have to destroy Masjid Al Aqsa and built what they consider the correct historic Temple of Solomon. Dr Israar Ahmed writes in his Book 'Lessons From History':

During the years 1020 B.C. and 922 B.C., Israel reached the zenith of its territorial size and political power, enjoying an era of peace and affluence.
Culture, trade, and industry flourished, especially during the reign of Prophet Suleman (AS). The famous Temple was also built for the first time in Jerusalem.


Since Zionism, the Political Ideology which is poised to build a House for Jews in the Holy Land, either by hook or crook at the expense of millions of innocent lives even if they have to take, is deceiving them in to believing that their Glory Days of Solomon (a.s) are coming back. Rather this is the deception of Al Masih Al Dajjal. So the Real Messiah or Anointed One will have to come back and kill The False Messiah, who is about to become their leader, thus fulfilling all those Prophecies of his rule in the Torah.

Yes one thing, I would agree about Cyrus, the Great, he wasn't a polytheist, I don't know if he did study Torah under the Rabbis and became a True Follower of Bible i.e. Muslim.

About your saying Cyrus, being from the House of David, the Prophet's who did foretell about this King's arrival and subsequent release of Children of Israel from Babylon, would've also mentioned him being from the House of David, but they never did this, even though they did mention him being a type of a saviour king. For example, Book of Daniel, about 2 Horns, King of Media and Persia.

format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Speculation abounds to the reasoning for Cyrus' release of the Jews from Babylon. One argument being that Cyrus was a follower of Zoroaster, the monotheistic prophet: Zoroastrianism played a dominant religious role in Persia throughout its history until the Islamic conquest. As such, he would feel a kindred spirit with the monotheistic Jews. Who then perfected for Cyrus, his belief in Monotheism. And we find in Ezra1:1-8, indicates "the Lord inspired King Cyrus of Persia to issue this proclamation".
Completely Agree, I rather have a firm belief that he was a follower of Zoroaster or Zaratushtra , who may be a Prophet of Allah (swt) sent to the Persians, as Muhammad (Saw) said "Allah (swt) sent 120,000 Prophets throughout history of mankind.". He could've been one of them, and his teachings were monotheistic.


One thing very important to mention is that, the Children of Israel have a belief that their Future King or Al Maseeh or Anointed One whom they are waiting to appear and bring back their Glory Days of Solomon (a.s), has to rule over them from the Throne of David (a.s), the Father of Solomon. So even though Cyrus, the Great appeared as a saviour who brought them back to their Holy Land, they never chose him to rule over their Land of Judea, from the throne of David (a.s), infact Cyrus appointed Sheshbazzar, probably the son of King Jehoiachin ( descended from Royal House of David, overthrown by Nebuchadnezzar), to rule Judah as a semi-independent state. Sheshbazzar led the first group of Jews back to their homeland, followed by another expedition led by Zerubbabel in 522 B.C.. However, because of a number of reasons, the rebuilding of the Temple could not progress beyond the laying down of its foundations. Eighteen years latter, Zerubbabel became Judah’s governor who, supported by Prophets Haggai and Zechariah and the high-priest Jeshua, completed the second Temple in 515 B.C. (Lesson From the History by Dr. Israar Ahmed)

This effort of completion of construction of the Temple continued after Cyrus had passed, it was completed during the time of Darius, the Great, another Persian King. So the Temple wasn't even built during his era i suppose.

Allah (swt) knows best.
Reply

syed_z
11-07-2014, 09:19 PM
Bro Scimi,

I do have to share another thing about Dhul Qarnayn (The one of 2 Ages, as Qarn also means An Age or Epoch), its related to Taweel (Interpretation) and not Tafsir (Explanation). Interpretation of the Second of the 2 Ages i.e. after the release of Gog and Magog and their Unjust World Order (Fasad) on earth as opposed to the Just Order of Dhul Qarnayn on earth in the past Age (Qarn).

In addition to my previous post, majority of the Quran Commentators believe Cyrus, The Great to be the Dhul Qarnayn due to Jews posing question to Prophet Muhammad (saw) would only do it if it was something related to their history, which obviously tells us that he helped them move back to the Holy Land. Not to forget that Cyrus was also a monotheist.

However the only disagreement I have with your info is, the part of him being from the House of David (a.s) and his rebuilding the Temple.

Also, would like to share something about the event of Musa (a.s) and Khdir (a.s) as I have understood something very imp about those Ayaats of Surah Kahf, should we continue that here as well?
Reply

Snow
11-07-2014, 10:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
one more teaser :D
It's geographically located at the one location where a barrier would most definitely land lock an entire nation. No other place on earth has this geographical occurance withn mountain ranges as passes are prevalent amongst all mountain ranges. Also this correlates with Al Idrisis infamous world map, the Tabulus Rogeriana - which he was commissioned to make by the Sicilian King Roger - who was in fact - A VIKING... as if that wasn't enough of a clue - however, at this point I am probably confusing some of you... anyway,


Clue - beyond vekhoyansk - lies the Autonomous regions about which very little is known prior the year 700AD... as if that wasn't enough of a clue, if you saw the the mountains adjoined, hollowed out from the inside like the concave you'd expect from the inside of a sea shell - you'd most likely be convinced.


Scimi

I am really curious about the viking. They traveled far and wide around modern day Russia/Estonia/Lithuania... Gog and Magog is usually thought of as the slavs?
The viking sagas are not too great until around the year 1000. Probably the oral sagas are much older but the written ones are around the year 1000.

Why not just tell it all? I am curious.
Reply

Ahmad H
11-08-2014, 12:56 AM
Mashallah, this is a very hot topic. But I think all of you have got it wrong. And the reason is because even though you could dispute the historic facts, there is nothing in the Qur'an that gives you any kind of historic explanation of Dhul Qarnayn. We may find what is most likely the wall of Dhul Qarnayn, but that does not mean it is THE wall.

Firstly, the wall is explained in the Ahadith as to how it will be broken through:

It was narrated from Abu Hurairah that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:
"Gog and Magog people dig every day until, when they can almost see the rays of the sun, the one in charge of them says: "Go back and we will dig it tomorrow." Then Allah puts it back, stronger than it was before. (This will continue) until, when their time has come, and Allah wants to send them against the people, they will dig until they can almost see the rays of the sun, then the one who is in charge of them will say: "Go back, and we will dig it tomorrow if Allah wills.' So they will say: "If Allah wills." Then they will come back to it and it will be as they left it. So they will dig and will come out to the people, and they will drink all the water. The people will fortify themselves against them in their fortresses. They will shoot their arrows towards the sky and they will come back with blood on them, and they will say: "We have defeated the people of earth and dominated the people of heaven." Then Allah will send a worm in the napes of their necks and will kill them thereby.'" The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: "By the One in Whose Hand is my soul, the beasts of the earth will grow fat on their flesh."



حَدَّثَنَا أَزْهَرُ بْنُ مَرْوَانَ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الأَعْلَى، حَدَّثَنَا سَعِيدٌ، عَنْ قَتَادَةَ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو رَافِعٍ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ ‏"‏ إِنَّ يَأْجُوجَ وَمَأْجُوجَ يَحْفِرُونَ كُلَّ يَوْمٍ حَتَّى إِذَا كَادُوا يَرَوْنَ شُعَاعَ الشَّمْسِ قَالَ الَّذِي عَلَيْهِمُ ارْجِعُوا فَسَنَحْفِرُهُ غَدًا ‏.‏ فَيُعِيدُهُ اللَّهُ أَشَدَّ مَا كَانَ حَتَّى إِذَا بَلَغَتْ مُدَّتُهُمْ وَأَرَادَ اللَّهُ أَنْ يَبْعَثَهُمْ عَلَى النَّاسِ حَفَرُوا حَتَّى إِذَا كَادُوا يَرَوْنَ شُعَاعَ الشَّمْسِ قَالَ الَّذِي عَلَيْهِمُ ارْجِعُوا فَسَتَحْفِرُونَهُ غَدًا إِنْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ تَعَالَى وَاسْتَثْنَوْا فَيَعُودُونَ إِلَيْهِ وَهُوَ كَهَيْئَتِهِ حِينَ تَرَكُوهُ فَيَحْفِرُونَهُ وَيَخْرُجُونَ عَلَى النَّاسِ فَيَنْشِفُونَ الْمَاءَ وَيَتَحَصَّنُ النَّاسُ مِنْهُمْ فِي حُصُونِهِمْ فَيَرْمُونَ بِسِهَامِهِمْ إِلَى السَّمَاءِ فَتَرْجِعُ عَلَيْهَا الدَّمُ الَّذِي اجْفَظَّ فَيَقُولُونَ قَهَرْنَا أَهْلَ الأَرْضِ وَعَلَوْنَا أَهْلَ السَّمَاءِ فَيَبْعَثُ اللَّهُ نَغَفًا فِي أَقْفَائِهِمْ فَيَقْتُلُهُمْ بِهَا ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ ‏"‏ وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ إِنَّ دَوَابَّ الأَرْضِ لَتَسْمَنُ وَتَشْكَرُ شَكَرًا مِنْ لُحُومِهِمْ ‏"‏ ‏.‏
Grade : Sahih (Darussalam)

Reference : Sunan Ibn Majah 4080
In-book reference : Book 36, Hadith 155
English translation : Vol. 5, Book 36, Hadith 4080

Link: http://www.sunnah.com/ibnmajah/36/155


This Hadith is quite prophetic, now as to how to take this prophecy, the Holy Prophet (saw) said:

Narrated Zainab bint Jahsh:

The Prophet (ﷺ) got up from his sleep with a flushed red face and said, "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah. Woe to the Arabs, from the Great evil that is nearly approaching them. Today a gap has been made in the wall of Gog and Magog like this." (Sufyan illustrated by this forming the number 90 or 100 with his fingers.) It was asked, "Shall we be destroyed though there are righteous people among us?" The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Yes, if evil increased."




حَدَّثَنَا مَالِكُ بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ عُيَيْنَةَ، أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ الزُّهْرِيَّ، عَنْ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ زَيْنَبَ بِنْتِ أُمِّ سَلَمَةَ، عَنْ أُمِّ حَبِيبَةَ، عَنْ زَيْنَبَ ابْنَةِ جَحْشٍ ـ رضى الله عنهن ـ أَنَّهَا قَالَتِ اسْتَيْقَظَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم مِنَ النَّوْمِ مُحْمَرًّا وَجْهُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ اللَّهُ، وَيْلٌ لِلْعَرَبِ مِنْ شَرٍّ قَدِ اقْتَرَبَ، فُتِحَ الْيَوْمَ مِنْ رَدْمِ يَاجُوجَ وَمَاجُوجَ مِثْلُ هَذِهِ ‏"‏‏.‏ وَعَقَدَ سُفْيَانُ تِسْعِينَ أَوْ مِائَةً‏.‏ قِيلَ أَنَهْلِكُ وَفِينَا الصَّالِحُونَ قَالَ ‏"‏ نَعَمْ، إِذَا كَثُرَ الْخَبَثُ ‏"‏‏.‏
Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 7059
In-book reference : Book 92, Hadith 11
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 9, Book 88, Hadith 181
(deprecated numbering scheme)


Link: http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/92/11


This opening of the wall which holds back Gog and Magog is a spiritual matter, and is not meant to be taken literally. Now if you truly understand the way dreams work, then you'd realize by reading this Hadith slowly and carefully, with some proper thought, that the Holy Prophet (saw) said this after he woke from his sleep. Dreams are spiritual in meaning. They are not literal. So then how can you take these verses in the Qur'an so simplistically?

Furthermore, the Holy Prophet (saw) went on his Mi'raj, during which he was shown the sign of the Dajjal:

Narrated Ibn `Abbas:

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "On the night of my Ascent to the Heaven, I saw Moses who was a tall brown curlyhaired man as if he was one of the men of Shan'awa tribe, and I saw Jesus, a man of medium height and moderate complexion inclined to the red and white colors and of lank hair. I also saw Malik, the gate-keeper of the (Hell) Fire and Ad-Dajjal amongst the signs which Allah showed me." (The Prophet then recited the Holy Verse): "So be not you in doubt of meeting him' when you met Moses during the night of Mi'raj over the heavens" (32.23) Narrated Anas and Abu Bakra: "The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "The angels will guard Medina from Ad-Dajjal (who will not be able to enter the city of Medina).




حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ بَشَّارٍ، حَدَّثَنَا غُنْدَرٌ، حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنْ قَتَادَةَ،‏.‏ وَقَالَ لِي خَلِيفَةُ حَدَّثَنَا يَزِيدُ بْنُ زُرَيْعٍ، حَدَّثَنَا سَعِيدٌ، عَنْ قَتَادَةَ، عَنْ أَبِي الْعَالِيَةِ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ عَمِّ، نَبِيِّكُمْ يَعْنِي ابْنَ عَبَّاسٍ ـ رضى الله عنهما ـ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏"‏ رَأَيْتُ لَيْلَةَ أُسْرِيَ بِي مُوسَى رَجُلاً آدَمَ طُوَالاً جَعْدًا، كَأَنَّهُ مِنْ رِجَالِ شَنُوءَةَ، وَرَأَيْتُ عِيسَى رَجُلاً مَرْبُوعًا مَرْبُوعَ الْخَلْقِ إِلَى الْحُمْرَةِ وَالْبَيَاضِ، سَبْطَ الرَّأْسِ، وَرَأَيْتُ مَالِكًا خَازِنَ النَّارِ ‏"‏‏.‏ وَالدَّجَّالَ فِي آيَاتٍ أَرَاهُنَّ اللَّهُ إِيَّاهُ، فَلاَ تَكُنْ فِي مِرْيَةٍ مِنْ لِقَائِهِ‏.‏ قَالَ أَنَسٌ وَأَبُو بَكْرَةَ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ تَحْرُسُ الْمَلاَئِكَةُ الْمَدِينَةَ مِنَ الدَّجَّالِ ‏"‏‏.‏
Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3239
In-book reference : Book 59, Hadith 50
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 4, Book 54, Hadith 462
(deprecated numbering scheme)


Link: http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/59/50


So what do you say when this prophecy itself is also another spiritual sign? Does it mean Dajjal is on some island in this world? No. Here is why:

It was narrated from Jabir, that the Prophet(s.a.w) said:
"There is no soul born upon the earth – meaning today – upon whom will come one hundred years." (Sahih)



حَدَّثَنَا هَنَّادٌ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ، عَنِ الأَعْمَشِ، عَنْ أَبِي سُفْيَانَ، عَنْ جَابِرٍ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ مَا عَلَى الأَرْضِ نَفْسٌ مَنْفُوسَةٌ - يَعْنِي الْيَوْمَ تَأْتِي عَلَيْهَا مِائَةُ سَنَةٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ وَفِي الْبَابِ عَنِ ابْنِ عُمَرَ وَأَبِي سَعِيدٍ وَبُرَيْدَةَ ‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى هَذَا حَدِيثٌ حَسَنٌ ‏.‏
Reference : Jami` at-Tirmidhi 2250
In-book reference : Book 33, Hadith 93
English translation : Vol. 4, Book 7, Hadith 2250


Link: http://www.sunnah.com/tirmidhi/33/93

This is why Khidr (as) is not alive, and the Dajjal is not alive, they have not been alive for at least the last 1300 years waiting for the end of times.

And as to Gog and Magog, the surprise with this is that the Bible has mentioned who Gog and Magog are. It doesn't take much to read and realize that it makes sense. Ezekiel 39:1 says that Gog is the prince of Meshek and Tubal (Moscow and Tobolsk). This is referring to Russia, an insignificant part of the world where no one could have expected that over 2000 something years later, they would rise up as a world power, with a capability to destroy vast portions of the Earth. And it mentions Magog who lives in the coastlands. Who has coastlands in greater number than the United Kingdom, which comprises of many isles and coastlands? These people spread to Australia, created Canada and America, and colonized huge numbers of people. In fact, the European nations with coastlines all shipped out to sea and colonized lands all over the world.

There are very down to earth explanations of all of these matters. No need to complicate things either. If any of you want to disapprove of my using the Bible, fine, but you cannot argue with the clear statements of the Ahadith. I should just add that verse 21:96 of the Holy Qur'an, which mentions Gog and Magog going over every Hadab implies that they would reach every height. But if Muslims try to take shelter on Tur, then how is that safe against Gog and Magog who have gone on "EVERY" Hadab (height)? I've really thought about this, and realized that it can't mean anything else except that Hadab has some deeper meaning to it.

But the Ahadith make it clear they attain every height in the world, but they cannot reach the full extent of Heaven. They will think they rule Heaven, but they don't. The most grounded way to understand this is that they have taken rockets and actually shot their rockets to space and reached there. An ancient person could only think of shooting an arrow as something to liken to a rocket. And besides, who can shoot an arrow to the sky? Clearly the meaning is meant to be taken as something else.

Read the story of Pharaoh in the Holy Qur'an:
40:36 Pharaoh said: "O Haman! Build me a lofty palace, that I may attain the ways and means-
40:37 "The ways and means of (reaching) the heavens, and that I may mount up to the god of Moses: But as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar!" Thus was made alluring, in Pharaoh's eyes, the evil of his deeds, and he was hindered from the Path; and the plot of Pharaoh led to nothing but perdition (for him).

This is related to the doing of Gog and Magog in the Ahadith. They will seek to turn God out of Heaven but will find themselves smitten, by having boils grow in their necks, dying off by a widespread disease. Whatever happens, if evil becomes widespread enough, even good people will be dragged in that punishment as well, though their reward will be given by Allah.

To really understand this subject matter, delve into the words of Allah and the sayings recorded from the Messenger of Allah (saw), otherwise if people start throwing theories around then nothing useful will be discussed. I said all this so that all of you can give a more grounded discussion, In sha' Allah.
Reply

Ahmad H
11-08-2014, 12:57 AM
Mashallah, this is a very hot topic. But I think all of you have got it wrong. And the reason is because even though you could dispute the historic facts, there is nothing in the Qur'an that gives you any kind of historic explanation of Dhul Qarnayn. We may find what is most likely the wall of Dhul Qarnayn, but that does not mean it is THE wall.

Firstly, the wall is explained in the Ahadith as to how it will be broken through:

It was narrated from Abu Hurairah that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:
"Gog and Magog people dig every day until, when they can almost see the rays of the sun, the one in charge of them says: "Go back and we will dig it tomorrow." Then Allah puts it back, stronger than it was before. (This will continue) until, when their time has come, and Allah wants to send them against the people, they will dig until they can almost see the rays of the sun, then the one who is in charge of them will say: "Go back, and we will dig it tomorrow if Allah wills.' So they will say: "If Allah wills." Then they will come back to it and it will be as they left it. So they will dig and will come out to the people, and they will drink all the water. The people will fortify themselves against them in their fortresses. They will shoot their arrows towards the sky and they will come back with blood on them, and they will say: "We have defeated the people of earth and dominated the people of heaven." Then Allah will send a worm in the napes of their necks and will kill them thereby.'" The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: "By the One in Whose Hand is my soul, the beasts of the earth will grow fat on their flesh."



حَدَّثَنَا أَزْهَرُ بْنُ مَرْوَانَ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الأَعْلَى، حَدَّثَنَا سَعِيدٌ، عَنْ قَتَادَةَ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو رَافِعٍ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ ‏"‏ إِنَّ يَأْجُوجَ وَمَأْجُوجَ يَحْفِرُونَ كُلَّ يَوْمٍ حَتَّى إِذَا كَادُوا يَرَوْنَ شُعَاعَ الشَّمْسِ قَالَ الَّذِي عَلَيْهِمُ ارْجِعُوا فَسَنَحْفِرُهُ غَدًا ‏.‏ فَيُعِيدُهُ اللَّهُ أَشَدَّ مَا كَانَ حَتَّى إِذَا بَلَغَتْ مُدَّتُهُمْ وَأَرَادَ اللَّهُ أَنْ يَبْعَثَهُمْ عَلَى النَّاسِ حَفَرُوا حَتَّى إِذَا كَادُوا يَرَوْنَ شُعَاعَ الشَّمْسِ قَالَ الَّذِي عَلَيْهِمُ ارْجِعُوا فَسَتَحْفِرُونَهُ غَدًا إِنْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ تَعَالَى وَاسْتَثْنَوْا فَيَعُودُونَ إِلَيْهِ وَهُوَ كَهَيْئَتِهِ حِينَ تَرَكُوهُ فَيَحْفِرُونَهُ وَيَخْرُجُونَ عَلَى النَّاسِ فَيَنْشِفُونَ الْمَاءَ وَيَتَحَصَّنُ النَّاسُ مِنْهُمْ فِي حُصُونِهِمْ فَيَرْمُونَ بِسِهَامِهِمْ إِلَى السَّمَاءِ فَتَرْجِعُ عَلَيْهَا الدَّمُ الَّذِي اجْفَظَّ فَيَقُولُونَ قَهَرْنَا أَهْلَ الأَرْضِ وَعَلَوْنَا أَهْلَ السَّمَاءِ فَيَبْعَثُ اللَّهُ نَغَفًا فِي أَقْفَائِهِمْ فَيَقْتُلُهُمْ بِهَا ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ ‏"‏ وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ إِنَّ دَوَابَّ الأَرْضِ لَتَسْمَنُ وَتَشْكَرُ شَكَرًا مِنْ لُحُومِهِمْ ‏"‏ ‏.‏
Grade : Sahih (Darussalam)

Reference : Sunan Ibn Majah 4080
In-book reference : Book 36, Hadith 155
English translation : Vol. 5, Book 36, Hadith 4080

Link: http://www.sunnah.com/ibnmajah/36/155


This Hadith is quite prophetic, now as to how to take this prophecy, the Holy Prophet (saw) said:

Narrated Zainab bint Jahsh:

The Prophet (ﷺ) got up from his sleep with a flushed red face and said, "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah. Woe to the Arabs, from the Great evil that is nearly approaching them. Today a gap has been made in the wall of Gog and Magog like this." (Sufyan illustrated by this forming the number 90 or 100 with his fingers.) It was asked, "Shall we be destroyed though there are righteous people among us?" The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Yes, if evil increased."




حَدَّثَنَا مَالِكُ بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ عُيَيْنَةَ، أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ الزُّهْرِيَّ، عَنْ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ زَيْنَبَ بِنْتِ أُمِّ سَلَمَةَ، عَنْ أُمِّ حَبِيبَةَ، عَنْ زَيْنَبَ ابْنَةِ جَحْشٍ ـ رضى الله عنهن ـ أَنَّهَا قَالَتِ اسْتَيْقَظَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم مِنَ النَّوْمِ مُحْمَرًّا وَجْهُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ اللَّهُ، وَيْلٌ لِلْعَرَبِ مِنْ شَرٍّ قَدِ اقْتَرَبَ، فُتِحَ الْيَوْمَ مِنْ رَدْمِ يَاجُوجَ وَمَاجُوجَ مِثْلُ هَذِهِ ‏"‏‏.‏ وَعَقَدَ سُفْيَانُ تِسْعِينَ أَوْ مِائَةً‏.‏ قِيلَ أَنَهْلِكُ وَفِينَا الصَّالِحُونَ قَالَ ‏"‏ نَعَمْ، إِذَا كَثُرَ الْخَبَثُ ‏"‏‏.‏
Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 7059
In-book reference : Book 92, Hadith 11
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 9, Book 88, Hadith 181
(deprecated numbering scheme)


Link: http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/92/11


This opening of the wall which holds back Gog and Magog is a spiritual matter, and is not meant to be taken literally. Now if you truly understand the way dreams work, then you'd realize by reading this Hadith slowly and carefully, with some proper thought, that the Holy Prophet (saw) said this after he woke from his sleep. Dreams are spiritual in meaning. They are not literal. So then how can you take these verses in the Qur'an so simplistically?

Furthermore, the Holy Prophet (saw) went on his Mi'raj, during which he was shown the sign of the Dajjal:

Narrated Ibn `Abbas:

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "On the night of my Ascent to the Heaven, I saw Moses who was a tall brown curlyhaired man as if he was one of the men of Shan'awa tribe, and I saw Jesus, a man of medium height and moderate complexion inclined to the red and white colors and of lank hair. I also saw Malik, the gate-keeper of the (Hell) Fire and Ad-Dajjal amongst the signs which Allah showed me." (The Prophet then recited the Holy Verse): "So be not you in doubt of meeting him' when you met Moses during the night of Mi'raj over the heavens" (32.23) Narrated Anas and Abu Bakra: "The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "The angels will guard Medina from Ad-Dajjal (who will not be able to enter the city of Medina).




حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ بَشَّارٍ، حَدَّثَنَا غُنْدَرٌ، حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنْ قَتَادَةَ،‏.‏ وَقَالَ لِي خَلِيفَةُ حَدَّثَنَا يَزِيدُ بْنُ زُرَيْعٍ، حَدَّثَنَا سَعِيدٌ، عَنْ قَتَادَةَ، عَنْ أَبِي الْعَالِيَةِ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ عَمِّ، نَبِيِّكُمْ يَعْنِي ابْنَ عَبَّاسٍ ـ رضى الله عنهما ـ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏"‏ رَأَيْتُ لَيْلَةَ أُسْرِيَ بِي مُوسَى رَجُلاً آدَمَ طُوَالاً جَعْدًا، كَأَنَّهُ مِنْ رِجَالِ شَنُوءَةَ، وَرَأَيْتُ عِيسَى رَجُلاً مَرْبُوعًا مَرْبُوعَ الْخَلْقِ إِلَى الْحُمْرَةِ وَالْبَيَاضِ، سَبْطَ الرَّأْسِ، وَرَأَيْتُ مَالِكًا خَازِنَ النَّارِ ‏"‏‏.‏ وَالدَّجَّالَ فِي آيَاتٍ أَرَاهُنَّ اللَّهُ إِيَّاهُ، فَلاَ تَكُنْ فِي مِرْيَةٍ مِنْ لِقَائِهِ‏.‏ قَالَ أَنَسٌ وَأَبُو بَكْرَةَ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ تَحْرُسُ الْمَلاَئِكَةُ الْمَدِينَةَ مِنَ الدَّجَّالِ ‏"‏‏.‏
Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3239
In-book reference : Book 59, Hadith 50
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 4, Book 54, Hadith 462
(deprecated numbering scheme)


Link: http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/59/50


So what do you say when this prophecy itself is also another spiritual sign? Does it mean Dajjal is on some island in this world? No. Here is why:

It was narrated from Jabir, that the Prophet(s.a.w) said:
"There is no soul born upon the earth – meaning today – upon whom will come one hundred years." (Sahih)



حَدَّثَنَا هَنَّادٌ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ، عَنِ الأَعْمَشِ، عَنْ أَبِي سُفْيَانَ، عَنْ جَابِرٍ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ مَا عَلَى الأَرْضِ نَفْسٌ مَنْفُوسَةٌ - يَعْنِي الْيَوْمَ تَأْتِي عَلَيْهَا مِائَةُ سَنَةٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ وَفِي الْبَابِ عَنِ ابْنِ عُمَرَ وَأَبِي سَعِيدٍ وَبُرَيْدَةَ ‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى هَذَا حَدِيثٌ حَسَنٌ ‏.‏
Reference : Jami` at-Tirmidhi 2250
In-book reference : Book 33, Hadith 93
English translation : Vol. 4, Book 7, Hadith 2250


Link: http://www.sunnah.com/tirmidhi/33/93

This is why Khidr (as) is not alive, and the Dajjal is not alive, they have not been alive for at least the last 1300 years waiting for the end of times.

And as to Gog and Magog, the surprise with this is that the Bible has mentioned who Gog and Magog are. It doesn't take much to read and realize that it makes sense. Ezekiel 39:1 says that Gog is the prince of Meshek and Tubal (Moscow and Tobolsk). This is referring to Russia, an insignificant part of the world where no one could have expected that over 2000 something years later, they would rise up as a world power, with a capability to destroy vast portions of the Earth. And it mentions Magog who lives in the coastlands. Who has coastlands in greater number than the United Kingdom, which comprises of many isles and coastlands? These people spread to Australia, created Canada and America, and colonized huge numbers of people. In fact, the European nations with coastlines all shipped out to sea and colonized lands all over the world.

There are very down to earth explanations of all of these matters. No need to complicate things either. If any of you want to disapprove of my using the Bible, fine, but you cannot argue with the clear statements of the Ahadith. I should just add that verse 21:96 of the Holy Qur'an, which mentions Gog and Magog going over every Hadab implies that they would reach every height. But if Muslims try to take shelter on Tur, then how is that safe against Gog and Magog who have gone on "EVERY" Hadab (height)? I've really thought about this, and realized that it can't mean anything else except that Hadab has some deeper meaning to it.

But the Ahadith make it clear they attain every height in the world, but they cannot reach the full extent of Heaven. They will think they rule Heaven, but they don't. The most grounded way to understand this is that they have taken rockets and actually shot their rockets to space and reached there. An ancient person could only think of shooting an arrow as something to liken to a rocket. And besides, who can shoot an arrow to the sky? Clearly the meaning is meant to be taken as something else.

Read the story of Pharaoh in the Holy Qur'an:
40:36 Pharaoh said: "O Haman! Build me a lofty palace, that I may attain the ways and means-
40:37 "The ways and means of (reaching) the heavens, and that I may mount up to the god of Moses: But as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar!" Thus was made alluring, in Pharaoh's eyes, the evil of his deeds, and he was hindered from the Path; and the plot of Pharaoh led to nothing but perdition (for him).

This is related to the doing of Gog and Magog in the Ahadith. They will seek to turn God out of Heaven but will find themselves smitten, by having boils grow in their necks, dying off by a widespread disease. Whatever happens, if evil becomes widespread enough, even good people will be dragged in that punishment as well, though their reward will be given by Allah.

To really understand this subject matter, delve into the words of Allah and the sayings recorded from the Messenger of Allah (saw), otherwise if people start throwing theories around then nothing useful will be discussed. I said all this so that all of you can give a more grounded discussion, In sha' Allah.
Reply

Scimitar
11-08-2014, 02:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
Asalaam O Alaikum bro Scimi

Thanks for sharing the info. A lot of historical evidence during the time of return of the Jews to the Holy Land by the Persian King named Cyrus and his rule over many parts of the land, very much resembles the Dhul Qarnayn of the Quran.
Walakum salaam bro :)



format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
This however would be doubtful to say because the above Verses that you have shared is very much resembling the prediction coming and rule of Masih Isa ibn Maryam (a.s) in and around the Holy Land, after he has defeated Dajjal, the False Masih.

(3:45) Lo! The angels said "O Mary! Behold, God sends thee the glad tidings, through a word from Him, (of a son) who shall become known as the Christ Jesus, son of Mary, of great honour in this world and the life to come, and (shall be) of those who are drawn near unto God. (Muhammad Asad)

Asad comments on the Word Christ: "whose name shall be The Anointed (Al Masih)". The designation Al Masih is the Arabicized form of Aramaic Meshiha which in turn is derived from the Hebrew Mahsiah, 'The Anointed' - a term frequently applied in the Bible to Hebrew Kings, whose accession to power would be consecrated by a touch with holy oil taken from the Temple. This anointment appears to have been so important a rite among the Hebrews that the term 'The Anointed' became in the course of time more or less synonymous with 'King'. Its application to Jesus may have been due to the widespread conviction among his contemporaries (references to which are found in several places in the Synoptic Gospels) that he was descended in direct - and obviously legitimate line from the Royal House of David. (It is to be noted that this could not have been related to his mother's side because Mary belonged to the priestly class descending from Aaron, thus to the Tribe of Levi, one of the Sons of Jacob, while David descended from the Tribe of Judah) Whatever may have been the historical circumstances, it is evident that the honorific "The Anointed" was applied to Jesus in his own lifetime. In the Greek version of the Gospels - which is undoubtedly based on a now lost Aramaic original - this designation is correctly translated as Christos ( a noun derived from Greek Verb Chriein "To Anoint"): and since it is in this form - "The Christ" - that the designation Al-Masih has achieved in all Western Languages.

So the Prophecy which you've shared above I believe applies very much to Al Masih Isa Ibn Maryam (a.s) instead of Cyrus, who would rule the world from Jerusalem, once he defeats and kills the False Masih Dajjal after his Second Arrival. The "Annointed One" or 'The King' or Al Masih, very much applies to Jesus (a.s) and no one else as he was foretold in the Bible that he would bring the Glory Days of Children of Israel back to them, The Glory Days of Solomon (a.s) as Solomon was the 1st one to build the Temple. He i.e. Jesus (a.s) would have to built the Temple or Masjid of David (a.s) as we know it because Zionist Israel will have to destroy Masjid Al Aqsa and built what they consider the correct historic Temple of Solomon. Dr Israar Ahmed writes in his Book 'Lessons From History':

During the years 1020 B.C. and 922 B.C., Israel reached the zenith of its territorial size and political power, enjoying an era of peace and affluence.
Culture, trade, and industry flourished, especially during the reign of Prophet Suleman (AS). The famous Temple was also built for the first time in Jerusalem.


Since Zionism, the Political Ideology which is poised to build a House for Jews in the Holy Land, either by hook or crook at the expense of millions of innocent lives even if they have to take, is deceiving them in to believing that their Glory Days of Solomon (a.s) are coming back. Rather this is the deception of Al Masih Al Dajjal. So the Real Messiah or Anointed One will have to come back and kill The False Messiah, who is about to become their leader, thus fulfilling all those Prophecies of his rule in the Torah.

Yes one thing, I would agree about Cyrus, the Great, he wasn't a polytheist, I don't know if he did study Torah under the Rabbis and became a True Follower of Bible i.e. Muslim.

About your saying Cyrus, being from the House of David, the Prophet's who did foretell about this King's arrival and subsequent release of Children of Israel from Babylon, would've also mentioned him being from the House of David, but they never did this, even though they did mention him being a type of a saviour king. For example, Book of Daniel, about 2 Horns, King of Media and Persia.
You are completely correct - however, we must take a look at this example from the Jewish contextual understanding, since it was the Jews who were testing the Prophet pbuh with this question.

When we do this, we can see the reasoning for the question posed to prophet Muhammad pbuh, namely that the Jews had already accepted a non Jewish liberator as a Messiah - they didn't view Cyrus as THE MESSIAH though, because for the Jews, the Kingdom of Heaven would be delivered on earth and they would rule the planet... so they can keep waiting. They didn't recognise Muhammad pbuh as the Messiah, because he never claimed to be - nor did he liberate jerusalem and hail in the reign of the Jews over the rest of the world.

As for Cyrus being from the House of David AS... there is a possibility - here check this out:

Was Cyrus the Great an Israelite?

As the national presence of the Scythian-Scuth-Israelites living in the land of India began to depart, the spiritual truths were left behind by the works of Buddha in the year of 623 BCE. As it spread over the entire breadth of the Indian subcontinent, it eventually became the established religion in India. Yet back in Persia, the Scythian-Scuth-Israelites did pursue their conquest of the lands of the Persians. Is it any wonder that many scholars have suggested the Cyrus the Great was of Hebrew ancestry?

Cyrus the Great and his Jewish Queen Esther

In the Holy Scriptures, it was the God of Israel who proclaimed that Cyrus the Great would be sent to Babylon for the express purpose of doing His divine will and performing for His personal pleasure.

Isaiah 44:28 – “Who says of Cyrus, “He is My Shepherd, and he shall perform all My pleasure, saying to Jerusalem, ‘You shall be built,’ and to the temple, ’Your foundation shall be laid.’ ”

It was the Eternal One of Israel who had foretold to the Jews through the Prophet Isaiah during the days of Sennacherib the King of Assyria, years before the days of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon that Cyrus the Great would be His messiah, His “anointed one”. It was He who proclaimed that the city of Babylon would not have to be destroyed, the walls would not have to be breached, the double doors of Babylon would be opened to him and that the gates to the mighty Euphrates River would not be shut so that his army would be able to secure the city without the loss of one drop of Jewish blood.

Isaiah 45:1 – “Thus says the Lord to His anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have held – to subdue nations before him and loose the armor of kings, to open before him the double doors, so that the gates will not be shut.”

It was the Lord of hosts, who proclaimed during the days of the rule of King Hezekiah, that God already knew the name of Cyrus, before He was born, and it was the Eternal One Himself who gave Cyrus his own name.


Isaiah 45:3-4 – “That you may know that I, the Lord, who called you by your name, am the God of Israel, for Jacob My servant’s sake, and Israel My elect, I have even called you by your name; I have named you, though you have not known Me.”

The Wife of the Persian Shah, the Jewess Queen Esther

Why would the God of Israel do such a thing to someone who came from the land of the enemy of His people? Was Cyrus chosen from the enemy of God’s people, or was he selected from the remnant of the Lost Tribes that were placed among the enemies of God’s people.

Isaiah 45:5-6 – “I am the Lord, and there is non other; There is no God besides Me. I will gird you, though you have not known Me, that they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is non besides Me, I am the Lord and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord do all these things.”

Would the God of Israel use just anyone, from and of the nations of the earth, to perform His divine destiny? Would the God of Israel choose an enemy of His people to take them into exile so that His divine will would be accomplished? Yes! Would the God of Israel use the enemy of His people to protect them? We do not know! What if the God of Israel, knowing the end from the beginning chose Cyrus the Great because he was one of His own chosen ones, of the Lost Tribes of the House of Israel, so that he could have the pleasure of redeeming His own cousins the Jews?

What if the Eternal One gave him a destiny of ordering the rebuilding of the temple that his own forefather’s chose to reject as God’s lawgivers and to lead their people, the northern 10 tribes into apostasy? What if Cyrus the Great was a Lost Israelite chosen on a destiny to do God’s chosen will, before the Lost Israelites would fully exit from the Middle East? What if it was his destiny to redeem his cousins the Jews, the lawgivers of ancient Israel, so that they could go back to God’s land, and remain in a covenant with their God, so that the oracles of the Almighty might be preserved through Ezra the Scribe and that the Messiah might arrive and be born through the seed of the loins of Kings David and Solomon? Cyrus was chosen, even though Cyrus’ own people would have to remain in exile and clueless to their own destiny! Was Cyrus the Great a clueless child of the Lost Tribes of the House of Israel?

One of the modern scholars of the Lost Tribes of the House of Israel is Yair Davidiy of Brit-Am network, and it is his professional opinion that Cyrus the Great may have been a descendant of the Lost Tribes of Israel, from one of the tribes that was totally evacuated from the northern lands of the Kingdom of Israel and deported during the first deportation, during the second invasion of King Tiglath-pileser of Assyria. Concerning the ancestry as to whether “Cyrus the Great was an Israelite”, we read the words of Yair Davidiy:

Yair Davidiy – “Cyrus was the ruler of Persia. He belonged to the Pasargadae who was a small clan that had gained control of Persia. One explanation of the name Pasargadae is "Pasar-Gadae" which in the Aramaic dialect of that time meant "Sons-of-Gad" (Le Comte de Gobineau. "Histoire Des Perses", Paris 1869).

Groups from the Israelite tribe of Gad were scattered through Persia as well as being prominent amongst the Gutae (Goths) who at that stages were on the northern borders of Persia (a tribe amongst the Scythians), as explained from Ancient Sources in "The Tribes". It is therefore more than likely that the Pasargadae were at least in part originally descended from Gad (Pasar-Gadae). Cyrus may well have been of Israelite descent.”

God’s Wondrous Design – The Lost Israelites and Jews

Now we may be beginning to understand the design of God’s will, that the destiny of the nations are completed or revealed through his “chosen ones” who are descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Even today, is it impetuous to suggest, that every ruler that changes the destiny of the world is put there by the divine hand of God? Is it absurd to think that every leader and ruler, in the modern as well as the ancient times, who leads and directs the destiny of the world is a descendant of the Lost Tribes of the House of Israel or the Lost Jews of the House of Judah.

The Persian Shah Cyrus the Great also had a destiny for the Nations of the World. It was he who wrote the first charter for the declaration of human rights. It was inscribed on the Cyrus Clay Cylinder and today is on display in the British Museum.

Out of that charter resulted in the emancipation of the Jewish people. They were to return back to their homelands in the Land of Israel. Yet they also had the privilege with Cyrus’s emancipation to live in peaceful coexistence in a land of people from many different backgrounds and cultures. The Jews were to learn the concept of emancipation and eventually relive this experience in Germany (19th century) and America (20th century) and coexist in a pluralistic culture with a doctrine of diversity, such as Cyrus’ Persia, their participate, flourish and actually participate in the foundation and formation of advanced societies on this planet today.


source: http://www.biblesearchers.com/hebrew...israel11.shtml

The Jews of Yathrib saw the parable of Muhammad pbuh and Dhul Qarnayn in the idea that only two men in the history of mankind were given the task of propagating Monotheism to the whole world - Cyrus who was a King, and Muhammad who was the final prophet, pbuh.

It seems possible that Cyrus may have been a descendant of David AS, from the lost tribes - this is what is suggested above.

format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
Completely Agree, I rather have a firm belief that he was a follower of Zoroaster or Zaratushtra , who may be a Prophet of Allah (swt) sent to the Persians, as Muhammad (Saw) said "Allah (swt) sent 120,000 Prophets throughout history of mankind.". He could've been one of them, and his teachings were monotheistic.


One thing very important to mention is that, the Children of Israel have a belief that their Future King or Al Maseeh or Anointed One whom they are waiting to appear and bring back their Glory Days of Solomon (a.s), has to rule over them from the Throne of David (a.s), the Father of Solomon. So even though Cyrus, the Great appeared as a saviour who brought them back to their Holy Land, they never chose him to rule over their Land of Judea, from the throne of David (a.s), infact Cyrus appointed Sheshbazzar, probably the son of King Jehoiachin ( descended from Royal House of David, overthrown by Nebuchadnezzar), to rule Judah as a semi-independent state. Sheshbazzar led the first group of Jews back to their homeland, followed by another expedition led by Zerubbabel in 522 B.C.. However, because of a number of reasons, the rebuilding of the Temple could not progress beyond the laying down of its foundations. Eighteen years latter, Zerubbabel became Judah’s governor who, supported by Prophets Haggai and Zechariah and the high-priest Jeshua, completed the second Temple in 515 B.C. (Lesson From the History by Dr. Israar Ahmed)

This effort of completion of construction of the Temple continued after Cyrus had passed, it was completed during the time of Darius, the Great, another Persian King. So the Temple wasn't even built during his era i suppose.

Allah (swt) knows best.
Indeed HE does :)

I don't think human hands could have built the temple in one lifetime, especially not one as short as the life of Cyrus... - Dairus completed the work, after he was shown the letter of Cyrus by the Jews confirming that Cyrus had mandated the reconstruction of the temple - stones had to be quarried from distant places and trees cut down and brought back to the area etc - then you got all the other things... I don't claim that Cyrus was the Jewish Messiah - the Jews do - but even when they do - they say it with an air of contempt - because most of them don't even understand their own history properly. Also, Cyrus was always considered an honorary Messiah - not the real McCoy. A messiah, not The Messiah.

The point is, from all the evidence amassed so far, Cyrus fits the bill. Cyrus was obviously very important and instrumental in the story of the Jews.

Next I want to look at the case of the tabaabiyah Kings of Yemen, and ask "how can two tigers exist on the same mountain" but before we get there, I will see if you have anything further to add in sha Allah.

Scimi

EDIT:
@Bro ahmad_H

Imam Al-Bukhari transmitted in his Sahih the following Hadith saying: ((A man told the Prophet (Peace be upon him) that he had seen the dam (of Gog and Magog). The Prophet (Peace be upon him) asked: (How did you find it?’ the man said: (I found it like Al-Burd Al-Muhabbar (stripped garments).’ The Prophet (Peace be upon him) said: (You have seen it like that. ‘” In Ibn Jarir’s exegesis of the Qur’an, a slight different narration was reported by Qatadah who said: (‘I was told that a man said: (0 Allah’s Messenger! I have seen the dam of Gog and Magog. ‘The Prophet (Peace be upon him) said: (describe it to me. The man said: ‘It looked like stripped garments, with red and black stripes.’ The Prophet (Peace be upon him) said: ‘You have seen it. ‘”

The problem with finding iron and copper today in a mountainous structure, is the fact that it will have naturalised into its environment - when the prophet pbuh heard from a companion that he'd seen the barrier in a dream, he described it as a black and red striped garment - the iron would have rusted red, by the time of the prophet pbuh... when we factor in the weather, and the elements which cause erosion in metals - we can safely ascertain that for a barrier to remain standing this long it would have to be treated into chrome - they didn't have that tech back then, and so copper was poured over the top, resulting in a structure which looked like stripy garment... besides, I am of the belief that the barrier was breached during the lifetime of the prophet pbuh, and I say this on the account of wife of Prophet pbuh, Zainab Bint Jahsh's (RA) hadeeth which you referenced in your post. The Hadeeth is mutawatir.


banded iron formation on rock

Since the 7th century, the orthodox belief is that the barrier is a physical one and not a metaphorical one bro Ahmad_H. On that account I think you are wrong to say that this is an allegorical story in the Quran. None of the stories in Al Kahf were allegorical, so what evidence can you cite that proves it was? Your post wasn't convincing on the grounds that it is contradictory as I have outlined in the example of Zainab Bint Jahsh's hadeeth RA... not to mention that as early as Khaliph Umar's time (RA), expeditions have been sent to locate the wall.

Even Khaliph Watiq Billah sponsored an expedition, with Sallam Al Tarjumani (the interpreter) going as far as China and returning with news of the barrier in the northern frontier of Chinas then republic, which bordered the Mongol areas north of the Gobi dessert...

Some good books out there on that, if you are interested let me know, I have the PDF's.

Scimi
Reply

greenhill
11-08-2014, 04:36 AM
That is the interesting part to the story of Dhul Qarnain, so many factors that is not so easily decipherable (is there such a word?) but it is in the Quran which makes it true..

What started to give me doubts that Alexander was the 'one' is because he was tutored by Aristotle, who was the student of Plato who was in turn a student of Socrates. They were not (as far as I know anywhere near being a muslim) so how could he be guided?

Why would the Jews ask a question about a person who would is not of 'faith'?

What is ironic is that the grandson of Cyrus is defeated by Alexander...


Peace :shade:
Reply

greenhill
11-08-2014, 04:45 AM
Seeing as this thread is about Dhul Qarnain, my 'rhetorical question would be

"why would Alexander the Great be inserted as being Dhul Qarnain?" when the Jews who asked the question at that time were satisfied with the answer given back then?

Is it part of their plan to mislead the Muslims by naming another person who is a pagan, while they keep the real answer to themselves? Perhaps it is so they can sow some seeds of doubts?
Reply

Scimitar
11-08-2014, 05:20 AM
ofcourse it is... the romance of alexander was written over and over again, each time getting more and more flagrant -- in the end it included the plagiarised version of ayahs 83-99 of Al Kahf, albeit in romanticised form.

Just look up "The Alexander Romance" and you will see exactly how it started to pick up momentum within the Muslim world - all engineered I tell you.

Worse - one Muslim scholar copied the romance and replaced Zeus with Allah to make it fit with Al Kahf - that's how the legend got so much traction within Islam.

Contextually - the whole story is plagiarised to confuse Muslims as to the real identity of Dhul Qarnayn. The jews are still reeling from the shock of the verses in Al Kahf ayah 83-99. They knew they had no leg left to stand on. During the lifetime of the Prophet - the jews of Yathrib - Some accepted Islam - others didn't. The Munafiqoon.

Scimi
Reply

syed_z
11-08-2014, 06:21 PM
@ Bro Scimi,

Thanks for sharing all those details, I thought that Scythians were one of those Wild Tribes of Central Asia and Eastern Europe, but what you've shared, if it is correct that Scythians are one of the lost tribes of Israel, then I say Wallahu Alim, I don't know much about it.



format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmad H
This opening of the wall which holds back Gog and Magog is a spiritual matter, and is not meant to be taken literally. Now if you truly understand the way dreams work, then you'd realize by reading this Hadith slowly and carefully, with some proper thought, that the Holy Prophet (saw) said this after he woke from his sleep. Dreams are spiritual in meaning. They are not literal. So then how can you take these verses in the Qur'an so simplistically?

Bro Ahmed,

There is religious symbolism required to understand dreams, like Yusuf (a.s) saw the Sun Moon and Twelve stars prostrating him, which meant His Father, Mother and Twelve brothers as explained in the Quran. But Dreams of the Prophet, are not the same as dreams of any believer.

We have to keep this in Mind that Prophet Muhammad (Saw), was a Prophet of Allah (swt) and His dreams are not to be taken like our dreams, because the Process of Revelation that began in his life began in the form of True Dreams or Dreams coming to reality as it is:

Ayesha (r.a) said "The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah’s Apostle was in the form of good righteous (true) dreams in his sleep. He never had a dream but that it came true like bright day light. She said: He remained in this condition as long as Allah Most High willed. He loved solitude. Nothing was dearer to him.” (Dreams In Islam by Sheikh Imran Hosein)

Also the Keep in mind that Prophet (saw) said “The (good) dreams of a faithful believer is a part of the forty-six parts of prophethood.”

Our dreams may be having allegorical meaning due to them being only 1 out of 46 parts of Prophet hood, but the complete prophet hood was bestowed on Muhammad (Saw), the chosen one, so his dreams will be as clear as day light! For example:

Allah’s Apostle slept and afterwards woke up smiling. Um Haram asked, “What makes you smile, O Allah’s Apostle?” He said, “Some of my followers were presented before me in my dream as fighters in Allah’s Cause, sailing in the middle of the seas like kings on the thrones or like kings sitting on their thrones.” Um Haram added, ‘I said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Invoke Allah, to make me one of them;” So Allah’s Apostle invoked Allah for her and then laid his head down (and slept). Then he woke up smiling (again). (Um Haram added): I said, “What makes you smile, O Allah’s Apostle?” He said, “Some people of my followers were presented before me (in a dream) as fighters in Allah’s Cause.” He said the same as he had said before. I said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Invoke Allah to make me from them.” He said, “You are among the first ones.” Then Um Haram sailed over the sea during the Caliphate of Muawiya bin Abu Sufyan, and she fell down from her riding animal after coming ashore, and died.

Muhammad (Saw) seeing dreams were as bright as a daylight, absolute clear as it is because he had all parts of Prophet hood given to him. I suggest reading Sheikh Imran's Book 'Dreams in Islam', to understand the subject even better.


Him seeing a hole being made in the Wall of Gog and Magog in his dream, was actual hole and a revelation of their release in to the world.


format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmad H
So what do you say when this prophecy itself is also another spiritual sign? Does it mean Dajjal is on some island in this world? No. Here is why:

It was narrated from Jabir, that the Prophet(s.a.w) said:
"There is no soul born upon the earth – meaning today – upon whom will come one hundred years." (Sahih)

Sayyidina Abdullah ibn Umar (RA) narrated : Allah’s Messenger led us in the salah of isha towards the end of his life. When he had finished, he stood up and said, “Do you see this night of yours ? After a hundred years from it, there will not remain anyone of those on the face of the earth today.” Ibn Umar (RA) said that the people misinterpreted Allah’s Messenger (SAW) saying as not remaining for a hundred years though he only said, “There will not remain anyone of those today on the face of the earth after a qarn” (which is a hundred years or a generation).

Basically the hadith meant that the Generation or Qarn the Prophet (saw) was addressing will not live beyond Hundred Years from that Night. Hope you understand. Most of those gathered at the address did pass away 100 years from that night. So this will not apply to Dajjal.

Dajjal, even though Prophet Muhammad (Saw) saw him in several dreams and visions, and even on the Night of Mira'j, yet his personality is real, for if this hadn't been true, the Holy Prophet (Saw) would never had suspected Ibn Sayyad to be Dajjal:

Umar (RA) said, “O Messenger of Allah, (SAW) ‘ allow me to strike off his (Ibn Sayyad's) neck!” But, Allah’s Messenger said, “If he is true (The Dajjal), you will have no power over him. But if he is not (Dajjal) then there is no good in killing him.” Abdur Razzaq said, “that meant the dajjal.” (Sahih Tirmizi, Chapter 63 Ibn Sayyad, Book on Fitan)


Dajjal's Island is real, and the Sign which was showed to Prophet (saw) on Mira'j was of a real human being. But, however, there is religious symbolism involved in many signs of the End of Times, Interpretation or Taweel is required to spell them out clearly in our times and environment. Like Dajjal's Mule:

Prophet (Saw) said "...he will ride on a mule whose ears will be stretched out wide...." which obviously implies an aircraft. We won't be taking the mule literally, obviously. So you have to understand where symbolism is involved and interpretation is required and where not.



As for your Gog and Magog, theory, I completely agree with you, other than a couple of parts.


format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmad H
There are very down to earth explanations of all of these matters. No need to complicate things either. If any of you want to disapprove of my using the Bible, fine, but you cannot argue with the clear statements of the Ahadith. I should just add that verse 21:96 of the Holy Qur'an, which mentions Gog and Magog going over every Hadab implies that they would reach every height. But if Muslims try to take shelter on Tur, then how is that safe against Gog and Magog who have gone on "EVERY" Hadab (height)? I've really thought about this, and realized that it can't mean anything else except that Hadab has some deeper meaning to it.

But the Ahadith make it clear they attain every height in the world, but they cannot reach the full extent of Heaven. They will think they rule Heaven, but they don't. The most grounded way to understand this is that they have taken rockets and actually shot their rockets to space and reached there. An ancient person could only think of shooting an arrow as something to liken to a rocket. And besides, who can shoot an arrow to the sky? Clearly the meaning is meant to be taken as something else.

Read the story of Pharaoh in the Holy Qur'an:
40:36 Pharaoh said: "O Haman! Build me a lofty palace, that I may attain the ways and means-
40:37 "The ways and means of (reaching) the heavens, and that I may mount up to the god of Moses: But as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar!" Thus was made alluring, in Pharaoh's eyes, the evil of his deeds, and he was hindered from the Path; and the plot of Pharaoh led to nothing but perdition (for him).

This is related to the doing of Gog and Magog in the Ahadith. They will seek to turn God out of Heaven but will find themselves smitten, by having boils grow in their necks, dying off by a widespread disease. Whatever happens, if evil becomes widespread enough, even good people will be dragged in that punishment as well, though their reward will be given by Allah.
The explanation given by Sheikh Imran in his book Islamic View of Gog and Magog is exactly the same as yours and makes perfect sense, especially the part of their 'Coming down from every slope' in the Hadith which implies they'll spread Fasad like none has spread before and 'Their shooting arrows' in the hadith which implies in our times, Rockets and space wars.


But I would like to correct you on the Russia theory. Sheikh Imran Hosein himself, even though pointed towards Wester Europe being Gog, he mentioned Russia being Magog, a mistake which he has admitted in several of his lectures in recent years after the publishing of his book.

I can give you a quick example to disprove this theory that Russia is part of Gog and Magog World Order today. Russia rather is very much Anti Gog and Magog, and when I say Russia I mean RUssia of today and NOT USSR, Soviet Russia of the Past.

Gog and Magog will not only corrupt mankind but will do Opposite of What Dhul Qarnayn Did:

(Al Kahf 18:90) “. . until when he (eventually) came to the rising sun (i.e. to the farthest point eastwards that he could go since there was no land beyond and it appeared like the end of the Earth and that the sun was rising from beyond that land); he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering (for protection from sunshine, weather, environment) other than (the natural) covering.

(18:91) “Thus (did he meet them and thus did he wisely and compassionately leave them undisturbed in their natural way of life); and We (i.e. Allah Most High) did encompass with Our knowledge his grasp of the situation (and his response to it).


Muhammad Asad comments: With no covering relates to the primitve, natural state of those people who needed no clothes to protect them from Sun, and to the implied fact that Dhul Qarnayn left them as he had found them, being mindful not to upset their mode of life.

But guess what Gog and Magog Rule does to those who want to live in their traditional old style and natural way of life and who want to give up the fast and materialistic lifestyle of modern cities:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish_way_of_life

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ally/?page=all

If you do some research, you'll see that Amish Communities in US are not safe from authorities, they even arrested them for practicing polygamy, which is what Islam says as well.
http://religionvirus.blogspot.com/20...-to-drugs.html

But something happened in Russia, recently, and rather than giving this lady a hard time they're helping her in continuing her primitive lifestyle:

Agafia’s story: Old hermit lives alone deep in Siberian forest, seeks help

http://rt.com/news/188532-russia-aga...berian-forest/

http://rt.com/news/new-cult-uncovered-in-penza/

None of these people have been forced or arrested for practicing what they believe to be a natural way of life.


Rather, as Western Europe has accepted Gay Marriages and legalized them, Russia has rejected them:

The urge of Western countries to impose their neoliberal system of values on the other members of the international community as a universal basis of living can only cause concern. This is especially noticeable on the background of their aggressive promotion of the sexual minorities’ rights,” said the Foreign Ministry’s plenipotentiary for human rights, Konstantin Dolgov, while addressing the International Human Rights Forum, currently underway in Beijing.

http://rt.com/politics/russia-blasts...promotion-820/
http://rt.com/politics/putin-law-gay-religious-457/

Gog and Magog are trying to bring Russia to its knees and force Globalization down their throats but Russia is resisting.


Dhul Qarnayn represent belief in Allah (swt) and the Rule of Justice on Earth which is Islamic World Order, while Gog and Magog represent Rule of Fasad and Oppression, so is Islam being attacked by Modern Western World Order or Russia? The answer is simple when you look around the Muslim World, we're not under attack from Russia and China. In their bid to save Israel's illegitimate rule in Middle East, Western Powers are willing to come and jump on mankind from every Height or Hadab.


Consider RT's role vs BBC and CNN's or Western Media role that they play when it comes to new of Islam and Muslims. CNN and BBC and Western Media is known to demonize Islam and Muslims, while RT, if you do have the chance of viewing it, will surprise you that they are playing the Role of defending Islam i.e. the Religion of Dhul Qarnayn i.e. Faith in Allah.

RT never demonizes Muslims, other than obviously reporting on atrocities committed by ISIS, Dajjal's warriors.
Reply

saif-uddin
11-09-2014, 11:00 AM
"Alexander the Great" was a Incestous Sodomite, a Kaafir according to all Historical records,

not one account of him being a Muslim,
Reply

Caller الداعي
11-09-2014, 12:50 PM
My personal understanding is that many personalities in the Quran have not been detailed for us because the purpose of them is learning lessons from their lives rather than living off their legacy.

What do you guys think?
Reply

greenhill
11-09-2014, 02:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Caller الداعي
...... many personalities in the Quran have not been detailed for us because the purpose of them is learning lessons from their lives rather than living off their legacy.

What do you guys think?
Can't argue with you there. . .

But the story of Dhul Qarnayn is different. Knowing who is Dhul Qarnain is not the real point, but the story of the past has a bearing on the future with regards to certain aspects. Along with the fact the the Jews know who he is, hence asking the question with their motive(s) and getting an account of Dhul Qarnayn's actions, thus confirming. But they did not reveal who the person was. But the task was done.

In recent times Alexander the Great became associated as being Dhul Qarnayn. For a while maybe it was okay to finally have a real figure to that name, and he was a mighty leader! But he was a pagan! Surely Allah would not have been describing Alexander the Great!

Hence the quest to find the 'real' Dhul Qarnayn. Not that it is essential, but it cannot be Alexander, surely.


Peace :shade:
Reply

Scimitar
11-09-2014, 03:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
@ Bro Scimi,

Thanks for sharing all those details, I thought that Scythians were one of those Wild Tribes of Central Asia and Eastern Europe, but what you've shared, if it is correct that Scythians are one of the lost tribes of Israel, then I say Wallahu Alim, I don't know much about it.
Good to read you again bro Syed :)

THe Scythians were notably not just one tribe - but were many tribes who were nomadic, like their cousins the tartar-mongoloid nomads. Some historians such as Herodotus and Josephhus as well as others have said they consist of 24 tribes together (both the Scythians and the Tartar-Mongol) and co-existed out of necessity, even intermingled in a point of history where racial interbreeding was frowned upon.

Amongst the Scythians, were the Ashkenazi - who were supposedly one of the lost tribes of Israel. They had adopted the lifestyle of the nomads of Scythia out of necessity but didn't venture further than what geographically known as Khazaria today.

The Greek historian Herodotus reported three contradictory versions as to the origins of the Scythians, but considered the following to be most likely.


“There is also another different story, now to be related, in which I am more inclined to put faith than in any other. It is that the wandering Scythians once dwelt in Asia, and there warred with the Massagetae, but with ill success; they therefore quitted their homes, crossed the Araxes, and entered the land of Cimmeria.”


Josephus continues with further mistakes in relation to the Gomerites [source], in fact, much of Josephus’ work, in this particular area, not only contradicts other historians, but also contradicts Bible scripture in many places. [J. Miller and J. Hayes, A History of Ancient Israel and Judah, Philadelphia, 1986, pp. 316, 334, 408, and 470]. Many of these mistakes were not found in an Arabic copy of the book. Possibly implying that the few original copies of the Greek version of this book, limited as they were, were doctored in some places by servants of Satan, who were helping to forge evidence that would later be used to help promulgate Satan’s End Times counterfeiting of the Gog and Magog war.
[Above paragraph based on information found in The Comets of God]



It seems that 'Scythians' was a blanket term to describe a whole group of peoples.


Colonel J.C. Gawler’s book Our Scythian Ancestors supplies the answer: "Scythia proper, then, in the times of Herodotus (book iv. cap.101) is described as lying between the Danube and the Don. The Scythian nation was made up of various tribes having different names, though all are classed under one general name. Herodotus distinguishes, moreover, between tribes belonging to the Scythian nation, and tribes living among them having Scythian habits, but who were not Scythians by tradition or language". This distinction is not drawn by all writers.


“The ancient Greeks,” says Strabo, (book i. ii. 27) “classed all the northern nations with which they were familiar under the one name of Scythians, or according to Homer, Nomades.”


Strabo (book vii. iii. 9) seems to account for this by again pointing out how diverse races inhabiting those parts were all classed by the Greek writers under the name of Scythians. ‘Ephorus, in the fourth book of his history, which is entitled ‘of Europe,’ concludes by saying that there is a great difference in the manner of life, both of the Sauromatae (a mixed race, Herod. iv. 110-117) and the other Scythians; for while some of them are exceedingly morose, and are indeed cannibals (see Herod. iv. 106) others abstain even from the flesh of animals. (See Strabo, xvi. ii. 37, regarding superstitious innovations-abstinence from meat, &c.,- among the followers of Moses.)” (p.3). One of the peoples of the mixed race who were Not Scythian, but were classified, or grouped together with the Scythians was Magog! <-Ashkenaz: Strabo, 1st century AD.

My personal opinion is that the Scythian fit the example of Gog whereas the tartar Mongoloid fit the Magog identity.

Further, these two were essentially separated by a distinct racial feature - the colour of hair. The Scythians were the fair haired race (blonde, auburn, red and light brown - whereas the Tartar-Mongoloid were black haired.

Scimi
Reply

syed_z
11-09-2014, 07:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Caller الداعي
My personal understanding is that many personalities in the Quran have not been detailed for us because the purpose of them is learning lessons from their lives rather than living off their legacy.

What do you guys think?

Asalaam O Alaikum Brother Caller...

I completely agree with you, personally I don't think that any one other than Cyrus, the Great best fits the personality of Dhul Qarnayn if we try really really hard to determine who might've been Dhul Qarnayn. But in the end we should take guidance from this brief account in the Quran, guidance which can help us in this Age or Qarn of ours.

I believe that Tawil (Interpretation) of the Story of Dhul Qarnayn is more important for us to understand, even though the search for the personality is also important, but if we've figured out the man then we should move on.

The Tawil as explained by Sheikh Imran, that Dul Qarnayn, one of the 2 'Ages' i.e. Qarn means Age and Qarnayn would mean '2 Ages', which means the 'One of 2 Ages' meaning his story had significance in that Age (Qarn) which was when he actually lived and created the Wall and now the Story of Yajuj and Majuj is important for us in the Second Age (Qarn) when they would be released, in fact they have been released.

Now we need to identify them and spread the word.

We cannot forget that there are in total 4 Walls which Scholars and Thinkers of Islam in the past have thought to be as Walls of Gog and Magog:

Four being the most famous:

1) The Great Wall of China which was built by the Chinese King Faghfur 3460 years after Prophet Adam.
2) This 2nd Wall was located in Central Asia between Tirmiz and Bukhara, called Darband. It is said it existed during the time of Taimur Lang (Tamerlane) the Muslim King. The German confidant of Roman King, Cellar Berger, has mentioned him in his book. Kilafchu, the emissary of Castille, The King of Andalusia has also referred to him in his Travelogue. When he presented himself as the emissary of his king before Taimur, he had passed by this spot. He writes that the Wall of Bab Al Hadid (Iron Gate) is situated on the route coming from Mosul and which lies between Samarkand and India
(Maariful Quran, Tafsir of Surah Kahf)

3) The Third Wall is located in Dagestan in Russia. This too is famous by name Darband (blocked passage) and Bab Al Abwab (The Gate of the Gates) situated on the Western Shores of Caspian Sea.

4) Fourth Wall is located in higher parts of Caucasia towards the West of the Bab Al Abwab, where in between 2 Mountain Passes is there is a pass called Dariyal Pass. This fourth is called Wall of Qafqaz (Caucasus) or Mount Qoqa. This may have been build by people of Faris (Persia) to protect themselves against the Northern Barbarians. Some say it was built by Alexander but others attribute it to Cyrus and Nausherwan. Yaqut says it was constructed with Molten Copper, which is mentioned in the Verse of Surah Kahf.

(Maariful Quran)

I personally believe it to be the 4th One, Mount Qoqa, suprisingly the Hindu Scriptures also mention these Characters Koka Vikoka (Gog and Magog), see the similarity between Mount Qoqa and Koka?

But Sheikh Imran Hosein in his book Islamic View of Gog and Magog has given ample historical, geographical, geological and Quranic evidence for us that the 4th One certainly is none other than the Wall of Gog and Magog.
Reply

syed_z
11-09-2014, 08:28 PM
Thanks Bro Scimi,

I used to think that Pashtuns and Afghans were the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel and the reason for that is because I live in Pakistan and Pashtuns and Afghans living here have names similar to those of Children of Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_...rom_Israelites

For example they have a tribe of Pashtuns here known as Yusuf Zais (Sons of Josephs) and Koh I Suleimani, the Mountain Range of Suleiman in Afghanistan. Also Takhti Suleimani (Throne of Solomon).

Also Barak Zai (Barak is a Jewish Name) Barak Zai is a famous Tribe of Pashtuns.

http://www.sharnoffsglobalviews.com/...ns-jewish-261/
http://www.sharnoffsglobalviews.com/...ali-torah-269/

But you could very well be right, may be a couple out of the 10 settled in Afghan and Pashtun and Northern Gilgit Baltistan Area of Pakistan, but others maybe mingled with Scythian and Mongol Nations.
Reply

Scimitar
11-09-2014, 09:15 PM
the lost tribes spread far and wide bro. When Allah scattered the tribes away from jerusalem, they moved to whatever they climate they felt was best. They went into Africa and Southern Arabia, Central Arabia, Persia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and northwards into Ashkenaz and from there, Europe... Some reached Europe from Greece and Rome as they identified with the thriftiness of the empire's pragmatism circa the time of Isa AS... it is only in this modern age do we see them return to the holy land as non semitic and semitic Jews... reminds me of this:

“But there is a ban on a town which We have destroyed: that they (the people of the town) shall not return (to reclaim that town as their own); until Gog and Magog are let through (their barrier), and they swiftly spread out in every direction (replicating themselves amongst all the peoples of the world).”
(Qur’an, al-Anbiyah, 21:95-96)

Scimi
Reply

syed_z
11-09-2014, 09:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
ofcourse it is... the romance of alexander was written over and over again, each time getting more and more flagrant -- in the end it included the plagiarised version of ayahs 83-99 of Al Kahf, albeit in romanticised form.

Just look up "The Alexander Romance" and you will see exactly how it started to pick up momentum within the Muslim world - all engineered I tell you.

Worse - one Muslim scholar copied the romance and replaced Zeus with Allah to make it fit with Al Kahf - that's how the legend got so much traction within Islam.

Contextually - the whole story is plagiarised to confuse Muslims as to the real identity of Dhul Qarnayn. The jews are still reeling from the shock of the verses in Al Kahf ayah 83-99. They knew they had no leg left to stand on. During the lifetime of the Prophet - the jews of Yathrib - Some accepted Islam - others didn't. The Munafiqoon.

Scimi


Salaam Bro.

Regardless of who Dhul Qarnayn is, I have begun to think that it is really Divine Wisdom why Allah (Swt) chose not to reveal the real name of Dhul Qarnayn, cause had He (swt) done it by mentioning the person by name, it could've caused much confusion for Muslims Thinkers and Commentators in understanding this subject.

When the name isn't mentioned then it is Divine Wisdom, because then the Scholars of Islam only focus on finding the Wall and study the region in the light of Surah Kahf Verses, this keeps them focused on the chore of the subject i.e. Yajuj and Majuj and their Fasad. This way MashA'Allah scholars such as Sheikh Imran Hosein from our times and Maulana Kashmiri who as I have posted in my below post, agreed to the 4th Wall being the Wall of Gog and Magog.

The Source which I have quoted, Maariful Quran says that other than pointing out which Wall is the Wall of Dhul Qarnayn, one thing has been determined that All Four Walls prove that these Walls were made in one point of time in history to protect the Civilized people by their Kings from Barbarian Tribes of the North. All of them have been built in such a way to protect them from attacks originating from Central Asia and North of Caspian Sea and Black Sea, they are built in the Southern parts to protect themselves from the North.

Now if Dhul Qarnayn had been mentioned by name by Allah (swt), then may be the Scholars of Islam would've held on to just one Wall, knowing how we Muslims sometimes are when reading Quran and Hadith, very strict when it comes to holding on to something clearly spelled out. The search and the pondering would not have been done by Islamic Thinkers, because the pondering led them to discovered other Walls in addition to the actual Wall and this way they figured out and shared extensive knowledge which helped later generations built on the same, and Allah (swt) knows best.

We have to also keep this in Mind that If Allah (Swt) had mentioned Dhul Qarnayn by name for example if it is indeed Cyrus the Great, then while collecting historical data on this individual nowehere do we have hard evidence that anyone of the Walls were even made by Cyrus? We have NONE!

So there is Divine Wisdom, probably even much more than what I have discussed, behind not mentioning the name and just call him Dhul Qarnayn.

Everytime an event is mentioned in the Quran, with the exception of a very few commentators, most of them go searching for details of that particular event thus causing them to drift away from the real chore of that message that Allah (swt) is trying to teach. For example the story of the young men in Surah Kahf. Multiple accounts and details have been shared about the town and their time period, unfortunately most of the commentators view it as a story of Christian Background, while forgetting that it was the Jews who posed the question to the Prophet (saw). Why would they even care to ask this if their account belongs to Christian History?

So as Brother Caller also mentioned, lets focus on the Chore Subject, Yajuj and Majuj.
Reply

Scimitar
11-09-2014, 10:25 PM
Sure, The Subject of the identity for DQ is a closed one for me anyhow.

As for ya'juj Ma'juj, the etymology of the words should be looked at again. I believe the phenomena of Linguistic Borrowing has occurred with those two words.

Scimi
Reply

syed_z
11-09-2014, 10:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
the lost tribes spread far and wide bro. When Allah scattered the tribes away from jerusalem, they moved to whatever they climate they felt was best. They went into Africa and Southern Arabia, Central Arabia, Persia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and northwards into Ashkenaz and from there, Europe... Some reached Europe from Greece and Rome as they identified with the thriftiness of the empire's pragmatism circa the time of Isa AS... it is only in this modern age do we see them return to the holy land as non semitic and semitic Jews... reminds me of this:

“But there is a ban on a town which We have destroyed: that they (the people of the town) shall not return (to reclaim that town as their own); until Gog and Magog are let through (their barrier), and they swiftly spread out in every direction (replicating themselves amongst all the peoples of the world).”
(Qur’an, al-Anbiyah, 21:95-96)

Scimi
Thanks Bro.

But don't you see that even if those Lost Tribes did mingle with other nations then they have lost their Jewish Heritage and have become the same as the ones within whom they've assimilated. So if they settled in Pashtun Areas, and became Muslims, they woudln't be coming back to reclaim the Holy Land as their own? Right?

So if they for example, mingled with Mongols as you explained earlier, then they lost their Jewish identity and became Mongolian, then the Mongolians aren't coming back to reclaim the Holy Land or if we think they settled in Africa and then their African descendents aren't coming back, unless they kept themselves Jewish and held on to Judaism, which is almost impossible to do so when your generations live in an environment or culture which is not Jewish.

If you have a chance to read Abdullah Hakim Quick lectures, he explains that Muslims lived the land of USA long before Christopher Columbus so called discovered America. He even gives out their family names, unfortunately today most of their descendent hardly even know that their ancestors were practicing Muslims.

The ONLY nation that has no Jewish roots, no tribal ancestry with any one of the tribes of Jews and Quran calls them Yajuj and Majuj, and who have accepted Judaism in Large Numbers in one point of time in history and have come to reclaim the Holy Land as their Own are none other than Ashkenazi Jews or Khazarian Jews, belonging to Khazaria Kingdom, who were pagans before and have no relation with Abraham (a.s) grandson Jacob or Israel. Something they themselves have agreed to in the Book 13th Tribe by one of their own. It was their tribes who used to attack nations living South of the Caucasus, for loot and plunder.

The 13th Tribe Book accepts the same:

This fortified defile, called by the Arabs Bab al Abwab, the Gate of Gates, was a kind of historic turnstile through which the Khazars and other marauding tribes had from time immemorial attacked the countries of the south and retreated again. Now it was the turn of the Arabs. Between 642 and 652 they repeatedly broke through the Darband Gate and advanced deep into Khazaria, attempting to capture Balanjar, the nearest town, and thus secure a foothold on the European side of the Caucasus. They were beaten back on every occasion in this first phase of the Arab-Khazar war; the last time in 652, in a great battle in which both sides used artillery (catapults and ballistae). Four thousand Arabs were killed, including their commander, Abdal-Rahman ibn-Rabiah; the rest fled in disorder across the mountains.

Maulana Madudi mentions this event as well:

Ibn Jarir Tabari and Ibn Kathir have recorded the event, and Yaqut has mentioned it in his Mu jam-ul-Buldan that when after the conquest of Azerbaijan, Umar sent Suraqah bin Amr, in 22 A.H. on an expedition to Derbent, the latter appointed Abdur Rehman bin Rabiah as the chief of his vanguard. When Abdur Rehman entered Armenia, the ruler Shehrbraz surrendered without fighting. Then when Abdur Rehman wanted to advance towards Derbent, Shehrbraz informed him that he had already gathered full information about the wall built by Zul-Qarnain, through a man, who could supply all the necessary details and then the man was actually presented before Abdur Rehman. (Tabari, Vol. III, pp. 235-239; AIBidayah wan-Nihayah, Vol. VII, pp. 122-125, and Mujamul- Buldan, under Bab-ul-Abwab: Derbent).


The Ashkenazi Jews, descendents of Khazars were responsible for bringing the Sephardic or the real descendents of Abraham (a.s) back to the Holy Land. The Eastern European jews after their migration to the Holy Land by Britain (also the part of the Gog and Magog) created their militias and intelligence services to spread Fasad in and around the holy land.


1950 Zionist agents threw bombs at a synagogue in Baghdad, Iraq, and other Jewish targets in order to pressure Jews into emigrating to Israel.
http://www.radioislam.org/historia/z...rror39_74.html

The killing of Jews by Zionist terrorists was no accident. Ever since the creation of the Zionist entity, Irgun and Stern Gang successor Mossad frequently attacked Jewish assets such as synagogues in Muslim countries, to influence public opinion in believing that Muslims were violent extremists and terrorising ‘Diaspora Jews’ into taking refuge in the Jews-only state. Mossad has always been particularly generous in sacrificing Jewish blood, if it was that of Oriental or Sephardic Jews, who are considered second class citizens in AshkeNazi dominated IsraHell.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch.../ar/t20520.htm

So If you read these Verses in the light of the above Article then I think it points towards Khazar European Jews as being Yajuj and Majuj, who brought the real Jews i.e. the people of the town (Jerusalem) back to the holy land to reclaim it as their own.

“And there is a ban on (the people of) a town which We destroyed: that they (the people of the town) shall not return (to reclaim their town) until
Gog and Magog are released and (eventually) they spread out in every direction (or descend from every height to occupy every position of advantage).”

(Qur’ān, al-Anbiyāh’, 21:95-6)

You know, I've actually had this same discussion with you before I remember :p , sometime a go though.
Reply

Scimitar
11-10-2014, 02:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
Thanks Bro.

But don't you see that even if those Lost Tribes did mingle with other nations then they have lost their Jewish Heritage and have become the same as the ones within whom they've assimilated. So if they settled in Pashtun Areas, and became Muslims, they wouldn't be coming back to reclaim the Holy Land as their own? Right?
Yes :) precisely my point when I say "semitic as well as non semitic Jews returned to Jerusalem"

It had to inevitable, that with the passage of time, blood lines had to mix in order to ensure survival and continuity.

This hadeeth: "Those who imitate a people are from them" kinda spells it clear for me.

Most of the so-called Jews in Israel are secular and not religious, in fact, I saw a video recently where a guy asks Jews in Israel if they are religious and most of them answered they were atheist. A friend of mine confirmed for me that real Judaism is rare in Israel and the norm is the neo-hellenistic and secular lifestyle of the western countries - compromising the very idea of an Holy Israel.

As Shaikh Imran Hosein has told us many times - Appearance and Reality are not the same.

So yes, we are not in disagreement, :) except for one small part - namely that it is not just the Khazar jews who would be part and parcel of G&M solely as a race, no... it would be the whole region, historically speaking - stretching up to the borders of China.

But today, even an Arab can be a G&M, if he or she is secular, irreligious, and craves the trinkets of dunya and would do anything to achieve their desires. The essential characteristic of G&M, as told to us in the Quran, is that they cause "corruptions in the land". And as we know from hadeeth mentioned above, "Those who imitate a people are of them" - this hadeeth was narrated on behalf of 4 different companions of the Prophet pbuh: Abdullah bin 'Umar / Abu Hurairah / Hudhayfah / Anas bin Malik - may Allah be pleased with them all. Ameen.

Scimi
Reply

syed_z
11-10-2014, 05:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
This hadeeth: "Those who imitate a people are from them" kinda spells it clear for me.
MashA'Allah thats a very important hadith, never thought about it, this supports the Hadith of 999 being Gog and Magog out of every 1000 from Adam's progeny will be chosen for the Hellfire, May Allah (swt) protect us from being one of those :(. Naauzubillah.


format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
But today, even an Arab can be a G&M, if he or she is secular, irreligious, and craves the trinkets of dunya and would do anything to achieve their desires. The essential characteristic of G&M, as told to us in the Quran, is that they cause "corruptions in the land". And as we know from hadeeth mentioned above, "Those who imitate a people are of them" - this hadeeth was narrated on behalf of 4 different companions of the Prophet pbuh: Abdullah bin 'Umar / Abu Hurairah / Hudhayfah / Anas bin Malik - may Allah be pleased with them all. Ameen.
Yes very true, this reminds me a bit about Phase 3 Series by Wakeup Project. Sheikh Imran Hosein has been explaining this in all his lectures on Gog and Magog, he calls such like minded ones as Blue Jeans Jamaat.

About Israel, they are a secular state and actually it is easy for every Zionist Govt to rule over them if the people are secular minded.

Do you have any Idea about the Arrows that Gog and Magog will be 'throwing' in to the Heavens, which we have come to understand that they are Space Rockets and Satellites but the part of that same Hadith mentions their Rockets will return besmeared with 'Blood' and they will say before shooting their 'arrows' that 'lets conquer those in the heavens'. Do you have think if Prophet Muhammad (saw) was referring to Mars Planet, which is also known as Red Planet, when mentioning their spears returning with 'Blood'? A lot of hype has been created through Hollywood already about alien invasion.... may be they might be able to land on Mars and bring back some pieces from the Red Planet or may be hit it with a space missile. Allah (swt) knows best.

Please share your thoughts.
Reply

syed_z
11-10-2014, 05:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
So yes, we are not in disagreement, except for one small part - namely that it is not just the Khazar jews who would be part and parcel of G&M solely as a race, no... it would be the whole region, historically speaking - stretching up to the borders of China.
I've had this discussion with you before, and I remember you are very much inclining towards that Vikings are also Gog and Magog, and I also think that they are, if you've read the 13th Tribe, in addition to the Khazar's several wild tribes existed like the Huns Etc that lived in bordering regions where Khazars were located, and they lived off the same i.e. plundering and looting.

But one thing is for sure that Khazars were the only one's to accept Judaism, and none others, like Vikings or Huns or Gokturks etc, and they are the only one's to be found in large numbers in the holy land, because as you know the Sepahrdic Jews were living side by side with Muslims peacefully throughout their diaspora without trying to plot to over throw and take over the Holy Land, UNTIL the Khazars started to migrate.

But then the Vikings also have a major role to play, after they made inroads in to Western Europe and established themselves in those lands after accepting Christianity, became 'civilized' Rulers and launched the Crusades in the Holy Land.

So yes I don't believe that Khazars are part and parcel of GOG and Magog, rather they are those who would stand near Lake Tiberias 'last of those who would say that there was once water here...'

And guess what, India has also launched its spacecraft for Mars Mission, that would be observing Mars i.e. Red Planet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Orbiter_Mission

Koka Vikoka (Gog and Magog predicted in Hindu Scriptures) in India are multiplying fast, especially with the Bolly Wood culture, it is replicating Holly Wood in everything and sadly Bolly Wood fans and followers are not only in India but in Pakistan in large numbers. Its movies gossip and music is heard in every celebration Pakistanis do, private or cultural, sadly. I myself used to be a big fan of Bollywood Movies :embarrass

Alhamdulillah, Allah (swt) put some sense in to me.
Reply

Scimitar
11-10-2014, 07:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
Do you have any Idea about the Arrows that Gog and Magog will be 'throwing' in to the Heavens, which we have come to understand that they are Space Rockets and Satellites but the part of that same Hadith mentions their Rockets will return besmeared with 'Blood' and they will say before shooting their 'arrows' that 'lets conquer those in the heavens'. Do you have think if Prophet Muhammad (saw) was referring to Mars Planet, which is also known as Red Planet, when mentioning their spears returning with 'Blood'? A lot of hype has been created through Hollywood already about alien invasion.... may be they might be able to land on Mars and bring back some pieces from the Red Planet or may be hit it with a space missile. Allah (swt) knows best.

Please share your thoughts.
I have deliberated on the hadeeth about the arrows returning with something like blood on them from time to time, and truth be told brother - this hadeeth is one which poses 2 possibilities which I can think of.

1) if technology is defunct in the future due to electromagnetic pulse radiation (this could be cause by an interplanetary body moving close to our own) shutting down all electronics, then we probably will go back to more traditional means of living, disregarding technology - this would make all nations on the earth feel "vulnerable" without their techy war machines. Is there a possibility of an interplanetary body moving near earth?

In the final 10 major signs, we find that "the rising of the sun from the west (3 days and nights of darkness)" could very well be a possibility if an interplanetary body came between the sun and earth, effectively eclipsing the sun... if same interplanetary body interferes with the electromagnetic signals from satellites and the technologies on earth - you can imagine the rest I believe. We'd be right back to the Seima Turbino Phenomena - people will be melting metals and forging weapons... the most effective and least expensive to produce would be "arrows"...

The final wave of Gog Magog is also a part of the major ten signs. These are said to happen in such frequency that none know their ordering... I think you know what I am getting at here bro Syed. Sun rising from west, gog magog final wave. Allah knows best.

2) There is also a possibility that the arrows mentioned in the hadeeth refer to modern weapons also. As you have quite rightly estimated - these could refer to rockets which are shot into the air, then come down and cause collateral damage - blood on them.

As for the "we have killed the inhabitants of the heavens, now we will kill the inhabitants of the earth" line - that could be a ploy of utilising Jinn (alien hype) or, it could be a massive hologram show to deceive us. As we know, hologram tech has taken a vast leap of improvement in our current age.

See following video - the tools dajjal will have at his disposal are going to woo many into disbelief,



The video is 10 years old... imagine the leaps and bounds they have made since then. I have watched this video many times and that last part where the helicopter is flown over the heads of the audience - is really giving the game away.

Deception has taken on a whole new facade - dajjal's time of appearance is closer now than it's ever been.

Allah knows best.

Scimi
Reply

syed_z
11-11-2014, 02:31 PM
Asalaam O Alaikum...

Thanks for sharing the video. Unfortunately I can't see it because Pakistani Govt banned youtube :(. Probably scared as they are.

But can you share another link where I can see please.


format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
In the final 10 major signs, we find that "the rising of the sun from the west (3 days and nights of darkness)" could very well be a possibility if an interplanetary body came between the sun and earth, effectively eclipsing the sun... if same interplanetary body interferes with the electromagnetic signals from satellites and the technologies on earth - you can imagine the rest I believe. We'd be right back to the Seima Turbino Phenomena - people will be melting metals and forging weapons... the most effective and least expensive to produce would be "arrows"...
Thanks for sharing this Info. The Hadith of the Sun Rising from the West would be when Sun that rises from the East everyday will rise from the West Instead, so yes the world might experience darkness if it is really a cosmic event, the darkness would only last for 2 days or 3 days, as some End Times Hadith do mention that as well.

I don't know, but I don't think it would be a an eclipse because eclipse did happen at the time of Prophet (Saw) and he did mention an eclipse being an eclipse, but if you say a celestial body intervenes between Sun and Earth, even then the Sun wouldn't be rising from the opposite side. Yes the night would prolong for 2 days, but the Sun will rise again from the East, if that planetary body did pass, and not from the West, right?

About the electronic system being shut throughout the world, I've read that one of the Atomic Bombs that countries have made, there is one that destroys or jams all electricity, I don't have any info on it but maybe you can search it online and share with us.

The closest possible Ayat that point towards this cosmic event of the Sun changing its course is in Surah Yasin Verse 38:

And the sun runs [on course] toward its stopping point. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.


http://quran.com/36

Muhammad Asad in his tafsir explained: The Arabic term for 'Towards its stopping point' which is spelled as li-mustaqarrin lahaa, which may be rendered as above or, more conventionally, as "to its point of rest" , i.e. the time (or point) of the daily sunset (Razi). However, Abdullah Ibn Masud (r.a) is reliably reported to have read these words as laa mustaqarra lahaa (Zamakhshari), which gives us the meaning of "it runs (on its course) without having any rest" , i.e. unceasingly.

So some translations mention Li Mustaqarrin Laha as the final destination or final stopping point, its point of rest etc. So this is the Verse of the Quran which is the closest to the explanation of Hadith of 'Sun Rising from the West', that is again if it is really a cosmic event being referred to by the Prophet (saw), where the Sun might come to a point in future from where it would go the opposite direction. But there are other meanings as well for li mustaqarrin laha which is the that it runs (on its course) without having any rest, if we were to recite according to Abdullah Ibn Masud (r.a).

Surah Yasin Verses 37 - 40 , if you read, I have typed Asad's Translation:

And (they have a sign in) the sun: it runs in an orbit of its own - (and) that is laid down by the will of the Almighty, the All Knowing;
And (in) the moon, for which We have determined phases (which it must traverse) till it becomes like an old date-stalk, dried-up and curved:
(and) neither may the sun overtake the moon, nor can the night usurp the time of the day; since all of them float through space (in accordance with Our laws)

The Highlighted Verse 40 clearly says that the Sun cannot overtake the moon and neither can the night usurp the say, which means a Night for 2 days cannot happen as per Universal Law of Allah (swt). So the moon and sun will all be running in an orbit of their own without overtaking the other.

But if we were to beleive that li mustaqarrin lahaa means point of rest, meaning actual point of rest or final destination of the sun beyond which it would not continue any further, then that would make Sun Rising From the West as the last of the 10 Major Signs after which it will immediately be Qiyamah (Day of Resurrection) and that I say because the Ahadith of Sun Rising from the West mention that doors to Taubah (Repentance) will be shut:

The Prophet (Saw) said, "Allah has built a door of repentance in the west the breadth of which is seventy years and it will not close as long as the sun does not rise from the west."

As one thing is clear that Doors to Taubah cannot be shut till the world exsists, because Allah (swt) himself has said several places in the Quran to His slaves that not to despair of His Mercy, and that He is Almighty All Forgiving, ready to forgive as long as his slaves repent. So the only time doors to Taubah can be shut is when the world will not exist anymore which is Qiyamah, so the Sun if it actually has to rise from the West, this even has to take place only right before Qiyamah, and Allah (swt) knows best.

BUT since any Hadith cannot contradict the Quran that is a rule when understanding Quran and Hadith, therefore Sheikh Imran Hosein quotes this Verse when providing his explanation of Sun Rising From the West:
So set thou thy face steadily and truly to the faith: (establish) Allah’s handiwork (Fitrah) according to the pattern on which He has made mankind:no change (can there be) in Allah’s creation: that is the standard religion: but most among mankind understand not.”
(Qur’an, al-Rum, 30:30)


And If before you read the Verses of Surah Yasin quoted above read Verse 36:

Limitless in His Glory is He who has created opposites in whatever the earth produces, and in men's ownselves.


and therefore Allah (Swt) created Night and Day as separate from each other, the Night cannot outsrip the Day and niether the Day can Outstrip the Night. (Surah Yasin Verse 40)

Whatever Allah (swt) creates Gog and Magog will try to corrupt, they will replace real money i.e. Gold and Silver coins with Paper Money, they will corrupt the natural way of life, Allah's Handiwork (Fitrah) from which he has made mankind. And since no change (can there be) in Allah's creation, Sun, Moon, Stars other than mankind, the Sun rising from the West could have a symbolic meaning, i.e. people following a way of life upside down.


format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
The final wave of Gog Magog is also a part of the major ten signs. These are said to happen in such frequency that none know their ordering... I think you know what I am getting at here bro Syed. Sun rising from west, gog magog final wave. Allah knows best.

Your correct, no one knows their ordering, but according to Hadith of Zainab bint Jaish (r.a) , Gog and Magog broke through the barrier, so that Sign HAS already occurred, Dajjal's will be released and rule in a day like a Year and Month have only been explained only by Sheikh Imran and no other scholars, so most likely before he appears in our days in Human form in the State of Israel to declare himself Messiah, his release has already occurred, as the process to establish Israel has already begun. So I don't think we need to find the ordering for Gog and Magog and Dajjal because they have occurred and are in the process of reaching their pinnacle.

Similarly I believe Sun has already Risen from the West, and the process has begun. Allah (swt) knows best.

I do have something to share about Sun Rising from the West, InshA'Allah I'll share with you.
Reply

greenhill
11-11-2014, 03:02 PM
Imran Hosein, he pushes the boundaries a bit, doesn't he? Wakes up your brain a little.

About money, as bad as it is, where we are heading to is going to be worse. Electronic money. You don't see it. You don't touch it. You definitely won't smell it.

What does that mean? Substitute crops with bank balance... if you get my drift (regarding the times of Dajjal)
Reply

Ahmad H
11-11-2014, 03:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
The explanation given by Sheikh Imran in his book Islamic View of Gog and Magog is exactly the same as yours and makes perfect sense, especially the part of their 'Coming down from every slope' in the Hadith which implies they'll spread Fasad like none has spread before and 'Their shooting arrows' in the hadith which implies in our times, Rockets and space wars.


But I would like to correct you on the Russia theory. Sheikh Imran Hosein himself, even though pointed towards Wester Europe being Gog, he mentioned Russia being Magog, a mistake which he has admitted in several of his lectures in recent years after the publishing of his book.
Sheikh Imran Hosein is not a reliable person on this subject-matter. He brings in some odd concept with regards to time and dimensions and the coming of Dajjal, that once I read it in one of his books I couldn't take him seriously anymore. And if he changes his opinion on who Gog and Magog are from one time to another, then he can't really be reliable then. And Russia's "religiosity" is a deception itself.
format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
There is religious symbolism required to understand dreams, like Yusuf (a.s) saw the Sun Moon and Twelve stars prostrating him, which meant His Father, Mother and Twelve brothers as explained in the Quran. But Dreams of the Prophet, are not the same as dreams of any believer.

We have to keep this in Mind that Prophet Muhammad (Saw), was a Prophet of Allah (swt) and His dreams are not to be taken like our dreams, because the Process of Revelation that began in his life began in the form of True Dreams or Dreams coming to reality as it is
For sure. But...

It is reported either on the authority of Ibn Abbas or on the authority of Abu Huraira that a person came to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and said:

Allah's Messenger, I saw while I was sleeping during the night (this vision) that there was a canopy from which butter and honey were trickling and I also saw people collecting them in the palms of their hands, some more, some less, and I also saw a rope connecting the earth with the sky and I saw you catching hold of it and rising towards the heaven; then another person after you catching hold of it and rising towards (Heaven) ; then another person catching hold of it, but it was broken while it was rejoined for him and he also climbed up. Abu Bakr said: Allah's Messenger, may my father be sacrificed for you, by Allah, allow me to interpret it. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: Well, give its interpretation. Thereupon Abu Bakr said: The canopy signifies the canopy of Islam and that what trickles out of it in the form of butter and honey is the Holy Qur'an and its sweetness and softness and what the people get hold of it in their palms implies major portion of the Qur'an or the small portion; and so far as the rope joining the sky with the earth is concerned, it is the Truth by which you stood (in the worldly life) and by which Allah would raise you (to Heaven). Then the person after you would take hold of it and he would also climb up with the help of it. Then another person would take hold of it and climb up with the help of it. Then another person would take hold of it and it would be broken; then it would be rejoined for him and he would climb up with the help of it. Allah's Messenger, may my father be taken as a ransom for you, tell me whether I have interpreted it currectly or I have made an error. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: You have interpreted a part of it correctly and you have erred in interpreting a part of it. Thereupon he said: Allah's Messenger, by Allah, tell me that part where I have committed an error. Thereupon he said: Don't take an oath.
(Sahih Muslim)
Link: http://www.sunnah.com/muslim/42/32

And


Narrated Abu Musa:

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "I saw in a dream that I was migrating from Mecca to a land where there were date palm trees. I thought that it might be the land of Al-Yamama or Hajar, but behold, it turned out to be Yathrib (i.e. Medina). And I saw cows (being slaughtered) there, but the reward given by Allah is better (than worldly benefits). Behold, those cows proved to symbolize the believers (who were killed) on the Day (of the battle) of Uhud, and the good (which I saw in the dream) was the good and the reward and the truth which Allah bestowed upon us after the Badr battle. (or the Battle of Uhud) and that was the victory bestowed by Allah in the Battle of Khaibar and the conquest of Mecca) .

(Sahih Bukhari)
Link: http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/91/50


The Holy Prophet (saw) had dreams that required interpretation. So Sheikh Imran Hosein's opinion completely falls on its head. Hazrat Abu Bakr (ra) interpreted a dream of the Holy Prophet (saw), which contained symbolism, and the Holy Prophet (saw) interpreted one of his own dreams and said the cows he saw being slaughtered were the believers in Uhud - which he seemed to have understood after the fact. So, considering that the Gog and Magog dam was seen in a dream, does not mean it is an actual literal fact. You have to keep things open to interpretation until you understand the fulfillment.

As per what I stated above with Russia, their satellites and the West and their allies, they stand as strong possibilities considering Ezekiel (as)'s sayings. And in fact, Russia is north of Iraq and Syria. The Ahadith say Dajjal would come from there.

Even though this story regarding Dhul Qarnayn undisputably occurred in the past, and there is no doubt about that. However, the dream with regards to the future should not be limited to our understanding of the past. We take lessons from the past and apply them to the future. This has always been the way of God and He doesn't change His ways. The Holy Qur'an and its many other stories are witnesses to this.
Reply

syed_z
11-11-2014, 05:18 PM
Asalaam O Alaikum Bro greenhill,

Crops will still exist when Dajjal is ruling in the day like our days (i.e. the remaining 37 days out of 40), what would happen I believe is economic sanctions that would destroy their crops.

Allah (swt) knows the exact reality.

Continue praying.... Allahumma Arini Al Ashya'aa Kama hiya (Oh Allah show me things as they are lest I be deceived)
Reply

syed_z
11-11-2014, 05:46 PM
Asalaam O Alaikum Bro Ahmed...:)

format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmad H
And if he changes his opinion on who Gog and Magog are from one time to another, then he can't really be reliable then. And Russia's "religiosity" is a deception itself.
He changed it only once actually, but that's good because it shows the man isn't perfect and can make mistakes. But that doesn't mean we reject all other findings of his. I used to think Dr Zakir Naik was perfect, seriously, but till he made some mistakes, which made me realize no one is perfect.

I know one thing, that if it wasn't for him, all us brothers discussing here wouldn't be discussing so much about the subject of End Times especially the Major Signs. If you believe hes wrong about Russia then it would be justice if you can prove him wrong, Ezekiel revelation may be right, but the Biblical Scriptures and other ancient scriptures talk about Gog and Magog coming from Caucuses Mountains, but does that mean Caucuses people living in those mountains even today are to be considered Gog and Magog? Obviously No.

Similarly you have to study Moscow and Tobolsk under the light of History and the movement of cultures and tribes from the time The Prophet (saw) saw the dream of the barrier being broken till present. Otherwise you'll most likely confuse yourself.


format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmad H
The Holy Prophet (saw) had dreams that required interpretation.
I never denied that, what I wanted to show you was that several dreams and majority of them actually materialized exactly as he had seen them happening in his dream. And the breaking of Barrier was one of them, because it was a Major Sign of the last day, and one of the most important reasons why we consider the breaking of barrier as it is because Dhul Qarnayn himself said in Surah Kahf:

(18:98)
[Dhul-Qarnayn] said, "This is a mercy from my Lord; but when the promise of my Lord comes, He will make it level, and ever is the promise of my Lord true."

So the Prophet's dream confirmed the breaking of this barrier, exactly as it is.


format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmad H
And in fact, Russia is north of Iraq and Syria. The Ahadith say Dajjal would come from there.
The Hadith which says Dajjal would appear '...on a road between Syria and Iraq and cause mischief left and right...' Its nowhere near Russia that he will appear.

See ask yourself, its very simple, whose waging a war on Islam and Muslims from whom Dhul Qarnayn would've belong to if he were to be alive today? Is it Russia and China? How many Muslim countries are Russia and China occupying?

format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmad H
We take lessons from the past and apply them to the future. This has always been the way of God and He doesn't change His ways. The Holy Qur'an and its many other stories are witnesses to this.
No doubt about it, I agree. However, we need to understand that the Prophecies of Prophet (saw) was Spiritual Intelligence for us, we need to use it wisely, i.e. interpret what needs to be and not interpret everything, take literal what needs to be and not all. If we hold on to only one and study Akhiruz Zamaan, we are most likely going to confuse ourselves.
Reply

Ahmad H
11-12-2014, 03:49 AM
Wa alaykum as-salaam Syed,

Regarding Russia being one aspect of Gog and Magog or not, I won't pursue trying to convince you of it. All I can say is that these prophecies have taken shape in this age, and it is up to all Muslims to try to see them with a spiritual eye or not.

format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
However, we need to understand that the Prophecies of Prophet (saw) was Spiritual Intelligence for us, we need to use it wisely, i.e. interpret what needs to be and not interpret everything, take literal what needs to be and not all. If we hold on to only one and study Akhiruz Zamaan, we are most likely going to confuse ourselves.
The point is not to interpret everything, the point is to recognize the signs when they occur. You can't know the future even from Ahadith perfectly, but once they occur, you just have to hope to God that you are given the ability by Him to recognize it. All I can say is that the culmination of most of these end times prophecies seems to be very near.
Reply

Scimitar
11-13-2014, 03:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Syed_z
I don't know, but I don't think it would be a an eclipse because eclipse did happen at the time of Prophet (Saw) and he did mention an eclipse being an eclipse, but if you say a celestial body intervenes between Sun and Earth, even then the Sun wouldn't be rising from the opposite side. Yes the night would prolong for 2 days, but the Sun will rise again from the East, if that planetary body did pass, and not from the West, right?
Not necessarily.

If an object comes between the earth and the sun, it would block out the sun - let's say the object appeared in between China's east coast and the sun... blocks out the sun for three days and nights and then some, then moves away when the sun is facing the USA - so the sun rises on the USA - this would explain the sun rising from the west - I haven't factored in the idea of gravity, as an interplanetary object, obstructing the sun would do crazy things to our planets gravitational pull and rotation - could even slow it down, or stop it - Allahu-Alam... though I think stopping the earths rotation is a bit out there... slowing it down will have an effect which factors into where the sun appears to rise from also...

I was going to make a video animation to show you but then remembered - no youtube!

Hmm... can you get vimeo in Pakistan?

Scimi

EDIT: by the time you read this in sha Allah, the video I linked on previous page (youtube one) should be uploaded to vimeo - here is the link https://vimeo.com/111705406 worth watching, watch til the end - it gets better and better.
Reply

Muhaba
11-13-2014, 09:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
so the sun rises on the USA - this would explain the sun rising from the west
No, this will not make the sun rise from the west. The sun will still rise from the east everywhere in this situation. In USA, everyone will see the sun rising from the east, not the west.

The sun rising from the west is a clear sign. When the sun rises from the west, people will see it rise from the west instead of east.
Reply

Scimitar
11-13-2014, 10:34 PM
it's basic physics sister Blue Rose... I may have to do a video animation to show you how it works... many can't wrap their heads around it.

Scimi
Reply

syed_z
11-13-2014, 10:42 PM
Asalaam O Alaikum..

Bro Scimi,

Nice to hear from you.

format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
f an object comes between the earth and the sun, it would block out the sun - let's say the object appeared in between China's east coast and the sun... blocks out the sun for three days and nights and then some, then moves away when the sun is facing the USA - so the sun rises on the USA - this would explain the sun rising from the west - I haven't factored in the idea of gravity, as an interplanetary object, obstructing the sun would do crazy things to our planets gravitational pull and rotation - could even slow it down, or stop it - Allahu-Alam... though I think stopping the earths rotation is a bit out there... slowing it down will have an effect which factors into where the sun appears to rise from also...
Thanks for the explanation, I get what your saying. Well again, WAllahu Alim, may be that could be sun rising from the west. By the way Vimeo works here thanks for sharing the link.

See when you look at the Hadith it specifically says in Arabic... Tatl'oo Shams Min Maghrib...Sun will rise from the West....Min means From. So it has to 'rise from the West'.


One thing about Sun Rising from the West is that you'd understand the Interpretation of Sheikh Imran of this Sign when you are living in the East. If you are someone living in the East it would be much easier to understand that this sign has a symbolic meaning.

When the Prophet (Saw) was warning us about this Major Sign of Sun Rising from the West, his primary concern was for his Ummah, who would be affected worst by this Sign. The Sun Rising from the West was a warning for the East.

For example, the system of democracy which has created matters worst for us, even though Kingship was worst than Khilafah but kingship was much better than so called democracy because the election rigging is causing much greater Fitnah, in the past only One Caliph or King was ruling which kept affairs of the state much stable. But now the democracy has given power/authority to several groups, through multi political party system who choose wrong means for personal ends.

Then there is a conflict of military rule with political authorities in almost every Muslim country, for e.g. Military Coup in Pakistan or Iran in 1950s, Indonesia etc.

So this democracy system wasn't ours to begin with, its causing much Fitnah. Then we have the paper money and no Muslim country's paper money is stronger than European or North American currencies around the world, which keeps us in further subjugation, especially as paper money is created out of Interest based banking system, which also has been adopted from the West. This keeps us in the 'Third World Category' which was also a term coined by the West after second world war for African, South Asian and Middle Eastern counties. Third World means third class, and it is due to this Haraam Economic system which is causing the gap to widen even further and further between rich and poor class of Muslim societies.

The International Economic Bodies like IMF and World Bank based in the West, are loan giving machines that give loans and further reduce the purchasing powers of the 3rd world currencies, who are unable to pay them off because of ongoing power struggle between their Military Establishment and Political Parties or struggle amongst political parties to gain majority vote through rigging or other corrupt means like gangsterism. This struggle causes instability which causes further division, damage the economy and chaos.

And so that is why Prophet (Saw) predicted the following after he was to pass away....


According to a tradition that is narrated by Imam Ahmad (RA) on the authority of Nauman Ibn Bashir (RAA), Prophet Muhammad (SAW) is reported to have said to his Companions: “The period of Prophethood will remain among you so long as Allah wills, then He shall cause it to end. After that, there will be Khilafah among you on the pattern of Prophethood, and this will last as long as Allah wills, and then He shall cause it to end. After that, there will be a reign of oppressive monarchy,and this will also last as long as Allah wills, and then He shall cause it to end. After that there will be a period of enslavement, and this will last as long as Allah wills, then He shall cause it to end. Finally, there will again be Khilafah on the pattern of Prophethood.”


We are living in a period of enslavement under the West from Where the Sun has Risen.

If someone like Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto from Pakistan, Shah Faisal from Saudi Arabia or Khomeini from Iran tries to change this status quo of 'third world' and bring freedom as given by Islam back, they put sanctions, or threaten you with No Fly Zone. What happened to Gaddafi of Libya? Look at Libya before and after the fall of Gaddafi, you'll see how much infighting there is now, the dictator was much better than the present democrazy, now tribes rule, each its own territory and most likely if this continues we might see the breakup of Libya into several mini states. Atleast Gaddafi kept Libya United under one rule.

Also, if you live in the East, there is a huge gap between youth, they're divided, there are those who study in Secular Institiutes, dream of going to the West or making the East like West and then there are those unfotunate one's who can't afford, get enrolled in Islamic Madrassah's. These madrassah's do not teach secular sciences as good as the Universities and colleges do. These two are always opposed to each other. There is polarization among the youth. The Education system has been changed and the change has been adopted from the West after Secularization. Unfortunately the secular students are elected as chairmen by their secular political parties, with almost less or no regard for Islamic Sciences (other than emotional belief in One God and love for the Prophet and thats it). These chairmen, when elected in to the parliament are keen to keep tries with the West (From where the Sun has risen) and continue the status quo. They sustain the Political and Economic ties with the West, which keeps us subjugated further. Same thing with Military dictators who stage a coup like Musharraf or General Suharto of Indonesia, for them as well Belief in Islam is a private matter. These same parties or individuals are funded through front organizations like USAID and Brtiains 'Humanitarian and Social Development' Organizations.

On Wednesday, the head of the USAID acknowledged that his agency is running clandestine social media programs to “promote democracy” in several countries.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/04...nated-lendman/


In short this I believe means Sun Rising from the West for the East.

But the Prophet (saw) also recited this Verse when speaking about the Major Signs emphasizing to do Good Deeds before the Hour reaches its culmination point which is like a Darkest part of a night and people will be struck with Trials that they will not be able to perform them or with much difficulty:

(6:158) What! Do they wait either for the angels to appear before them or for your Lord to come unto them or for some clear signs of your Lord to appear before them? When some clear signs of your Lord will appear (i.e. Yajuj Majuj, Dajjal, Sun Rising from the West), believing will be of no avail to anyone who did not believe before, or who earned no good deeds through his faith.


Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "Be prompt in doing good deeds (before you are overtaken) by turbulence which would be like a part of the dark night. A man would be a believer in the morning and turn to disbelief in the evening, or he would be a believer in the evening and turn disbeliever in the morning, and would sell his Faith for worldly goods."

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "Hasten to do good deeds before you are overtaken by one of the seven afflictions." Then (giving a warning) he said, "Are you waiting for such poverty which will make you unmindful of devotion; or prosperity which will make you corrupt, or disease as will disable you, or such senility as will make you mentally unstable, or sudden death, or Ad-Dajjal who is the worst expected absent, or the Hour, and the Hour will be most grievous and most bitter".


Commentary: This Hadith tells that the Day of Resurrection will be preceded by a long chain of calamities. Because of the rush of these calamities, religion and Faith will loose their value in people. There will be a race for wealth, so much so that people would not hesitate to compromise their religion and Faith to acquire wealth. People will rapidly change their faces. This is what actually happening. In this situation true believers are exhorted to adhere strictly to Faith and perform noble deeds without delay.

http://www.islamicstudies.info/riyad...adith=87&to=94


As the commentary in the above link mentions that religion and faith will loose their value, therefore now I think it would be much easier to understand why the Prophet (Saw) said that the Doors to Taubah will be shut when the Sun Rises from the West, because no one will turn to Allah (swt) for Repentance, atleast majority of mankind, 999 out of every 1000 of Banu Adam. That is also one of the signs of appearance of Dajjal, i.e. when people will take religion lightly.

The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said 'The Dajjaal will appear at the end of time, when religion is taken lightly.....' (Signs before the Day of Judgment, Ibn Kathir)

Religion is taken lightly in the West where Churches are being sold to McDonald's, Pubs and Garrage Owners, but it still has to be taken lightly further in the East, it hasn't yet. May be it will after Dukhan (The Smoke i.e. Nuclear War).

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Allah, the Exalted, stretches His Hand during the night so that those who commit sins by day may repent, and He stretches His Hand in the day so that those who commit sins by night may repent. He keeps doing so until the sun rises from the West".

http://sunnah.com/riyadussaliheen/1/437

If we take the 'Doors to be Shut' literally then it means Allah (swt) will shut the doors of Taubah but Allah (swt) in several Verses of the Quran and Hadith Qudsi has stated that His Mercy has overtaken His Wrath, He always forgives the one who turns to Him for Repentance even though he might turn to Him with a mountain of sins, as long as he is alive, provided he doesn't do Taubah in his last dieing moment. So He (swt) shutting the door to repentance may be that people due to Major Signs reaching their culmination point will hardly turn to Him in repentance implying the "Doors to Taubah being Shut'" i.e. they will shut it for themselves and Allah (swt) knowst Best.

The Industrialization and Technological Revolution which has emerged like the Sun Rising from the Western Civilization has certainly proven one thing for the entire world, which leaves no further options but to hasten for Taubah for people who still refuse to believe:

(41:53) We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth
(Haqq). But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?

the Haqq is Islam, Quran and the Messenger Muhammad (Saw) came from Allah (swt).
Reply

syed_z
11-18-2014, 04:06 PM
Asalaam O Alaikum Brothers....

Wanted to share some extra info on our discussion on the subject of Sun Rising From the West in the Last Age (the second of the 2 Qarnayn (Ages)). Please watch Sheikh Imran Hosein's lecture

Mysterious Transformation of the Muslim World in the past 100 years.


http://www.imranhosein.org/video/you...e/gallery.html

A very important thing he mentions related to water how the Last 2 Major signs Gog and Magog And Dajjal would try to corrupt water. You may listen to His Lecture as the Israaf (wastage) of Water which is the basis of all organic life would be corrupted by these 2 characters and the tap water system which we've adopted from West in the Muslim world has a role to play in that abuse of water even while doing Wudhu (ablution). For example Muslims keep the tap water on while doing Massah during Wudhu i.e. rubbing wet hands over neck and hair while the water keeps going down the drain.

This explanation on the misuse of water is also referred to in the following Ayah of the Surah Al Araaf Verse 55:

Call upon your Lord in humility and privately; indeed, He does not like transgressors.

Holy Prophet (saw) said "There will come some people who transgress in supplication and purification''

There should be humbleness when using water.Dajjal will try to corrupt water as the following Hadith do indicate him approaching sources of water:

Imam Ahmad has narrated from Junadah Ibn Abi Umayyah Al Azdi who said 'A man from the Ansar and I went to one of the Companions of the Prophet (saw) and said to him: 'Narrate to us, what you have heard from the Messenger of Allah (saw) about the dajjal...'

Then he mentioned the hadith:

He will abide (among you) on earth for forty days, during which he will reach every drinking place (on the earth. That is every place where water is drunk from. For example, a fountain, a spring, well etc.)

It is a fact that we in the mainstream world we now drink water by buying water sold in plastic bottles. It is something our ancestors never imagined we would be doing. Clean water was easily accessible in the past, free of charge. Nestle and similar private companies started selling water in West and now in East.

The wastage of Water is also a characteristic of Gog and Magog:

They will make dry (places of) water. The people will fortify themselves in fortresses, and the people of Yajooj and Majooj (Gog and Magog) will shoot their arrows to the sky. Then Allah will send Naghafan (a kind of worm) at the back of their necks and will kill them with the Naghafan (i.e., with those worms)." (Ibn Kathir)

Since 999 out of every 1000 of Children of Adam (a.s) will be adopting characteristics of Gog and Magog, the water scarcity is becoming a problem even in the Muslim world as Muslims have come to adopt that characteristic like many others of theirs.


Abu Sa'id al-Khudri reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You would tread the same path as was trodden by those before you inch by inch and step by step so much so that if they had entered into the hole of the lizard, you would follow them in this also. We said: Allah's Messenger, do you mean Jews and Christians (by your words)" those before you"? He said: Who else (than those two religious groups)? (Sahih Muslim)

The Gog and Magog World Order (New World Order) that came to dominate and secularize all aspects of human life in the West after the renaissance, initially came to be imposed on the East as well when Western Colonial powers colonized the East. This imposition of secular or godless socio-politcal-economic system and later on willingly adopted by the East in their individual nation states gave birth to a couple of generations which have followed the way of Gog and Magog such an extent that if the Judeo Christian civilization choose to go down the lizard hole so will they.


The 10 Major signs are extremely important connected with all minor signs of the end of times, if the Prophet (saw) himself gave importance so should we. Please do share thoughts.
Reply

Scimitar
11-18-2014, 04:58 PM
assalaam alaikum bro Syed, great to read you again. I've been a little busy lately and not had time to visit here.

Regarding the "sun rising from the west" - the majority view of scholars is that this is a literal sign, not allegorical. None of the other 10 major signs are allegorical either.

Although Shaikh Imran Hosein explains the allegorical explanation away quite convincingly, I believe the context has been ignored - namely that none of the final 10 major signs are allegorical.

Also consider, that in one hadeeth we are told that when these signs manifest, they will manifest in such a short space of time that none can know their ordering until the events pass (which of the ten major signs comes first - last etc)

On these points alone, I have found Shaikh Imran Hosein to have a few holes in his theory regarding the same.

Allah knows best.

Scimi

EDIT:

format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
See when you look at the Hadith it specifically says in Arabic... Tatl'oo Shams Min Maghrib...Sun will rise from the West....Min means From. So it has to 'rise from the West'.
Yes, and that is more than possible, if the earth is magnetically compromised due to a cosmic object coming between it and the sun. Once the object leaves the space between earth and the sun, the earths magnetic pull would re correct with the sun and the sun would once again rise - this time from the west.
Reply

syed_z
11-18-2014, 09:59 PM
Wa Alaikum Salaam Wa Rahmatullahi...

Nice to hear from you again as well. :)

I am actually very satisfied with Sheikh's interpretation.

You and all everyone who don't consider Sheikh Imran's interpretation to be correct have the right to disagree. But one thing is that those majority who do differ with Sheikh Imran haven't explained any of those signs. This is a fact that Sheikh is the only one out there to explain those in the light of subjects such as international relations and politics which others sorry to say are not learned in those subjects.

Thanks for explaining your interplanetary theory, I don't know about astronomy and its impact on earth so can't comment on that but what does it mean that 'Doors to Taubah will be shut' as said in the same hadith, what is your explanation for that? So do you think that as soon as the object moves on the Sun will Rise from the West as you explained but then will it set in the East or does it set in the West?
Reply

saif-uddin
11-20-2014, 03:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Caller الداعي
My personal understanding is that many personalities in the Quran have not been detailed for us because the purpose of them is learning lessons from their lives rather than living off their legacy.

What do you guys think?
your correct,

and to be honest we can only live of their Legacy by following their example,

Dhul Qarnayn (alayhi wa salam) was a Man of great Wisdom and Justice, amongst the few Righteous rulers to have lived on earth.

Subhanallah

:jz:
Reply

Scimitar
11-20-2014, 04:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
But one thing is that those majority who do differ with Sheikh Imran haven't explained any of those signs. This is a fact that Sheikh is the only one out there to explain those in the light of subjects such as international relations and politics which others sorry to say are not learned in those subjects.
I really think the Shaikh has identified a plausible avenue of thought - however, the context is skewed - I think you've missed the point I mentioned earlier.

No Scholar has said that the final ten major signs are allegorical - rather - they are to be taken literally.

It's a matter of simple logic bro Syed, think about this: How can the doors of tauba be closed just because USA became a nation superpower? That makes absolutely no sense to me or to anyone else, except for those who harbour a hatred for USA - which is silly.

Instead - the doors to tauba are said to close when "the sun rises from the west" meaning, when people notice the sun rises from the west - not when a new nation is discovered which has already been discovered by muslim explorers, and before them, by chinese explorers, and before them, by the russians, and before them, by the ungkut and so on and so forth.... Christopher Columbus didn't discover America.

America was already discovered - you know anything about the piri reis map? http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_1.htm - who said Columbus dicovered it? And why does Shaikh Imran Hosein always talk about contexts but then mess up so badly when the obvious contexts are presented? All he says in return is "you don't have to believe me" - and I don't - not if he isn't answering my questions.

Main points to consider here:

CONTEXTUAL ANALYSIS

the final 10 major signs are unanimously agreed by scholars to be literal signs - the ahlus sunnah wal jamaat is with the majority, not the deviant explanation. Here, the ignorance of context has not been explained away by Sh Imran Hosein, nor has he entertained the idea that the other signs are literal - so why is this one taken as allegorical by him?

Any ahadeeth attributed to the prophet pbuh is to be read as "literal" unless the scholars interpret them as Allegorical - and this must be a majority view. Why has Sh Imran Hosein ignored this very established methodology? strange for someone who keeps talking about methodology don't you think?

His explanations are good, but hardly convincing - I've read better theories on WUP to be honest.


Scimi
Reply

syed_z
11-20-2014, 09:40 PM
Asalaam O Alaikum...

Thanks for replying.

format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
It's a matter of simple logic bro Syed, think about this: How can the doors of tauba be closed just because USA became a nation superpower? That makes absolutely no sense to me or to anyone else, except for those who harbour a hatred for USA - which is silly.

Instead - the doors to tauba are said to close when "the sun rises from the west" meaning, when people notice the sun rises from the west - not when a new nation is discovered which has already been discovered by muslim explorers, and before them, by chinese explorers, and before them, by the russians, and before them, by the ungkut and so on and so forth.... Christopher Columbus didn't discover America.

See I was actually trying to hear from you clearly, I believe you haven't understood the basics of Sheikh Imran's Sun Rising from the West. He never meant to say that this major sign came to materialize when USA became a Superpower, absolutely no.

Thats what I explained to you in the earlier post, that Sun Rising from the West took place with Renaissance Period, coupled with Industrialization which gave the West power that was unmatchable and the Eastern World followed them blindy because the Caliphate, the symbol of Unity broke after Western colonization, individual Muslim nation states sprung up limiting Islam to private sphere i.e. Secularization of all aspects of the society.

Colonization started before US even came into being, it was started by Britain, Italy, Portugal, Spain Etc.

Khalid Baig in his book First Things First puts it nicely, even though he hasn't interpreted the Major Sign of Sun Rising, but has explained the Secularization of education in Muslim lands which in turn affected all aspects of our societies giving us a way of life opposite of what we had:

"The Best of our MBA have learned that the goal of business is to maximize profits, the goal of marketing is to create demand, and the proper way of making business decisions is through cost-benefit analysis. The best of our journalism graduates do not have a different model for journalism than the one presented by the West. In economics we have been teaching that human beings are utility-maximizing animals governed by Maslow's Hierarchy of needs. In our teaching of History, we see random events without a moral calculus driving them. We do not see Allah's laws governing rise and fall of nations. In psychology, engineering, Medicine, sociology civics or geography, it is the same story. In fact our schools and colleges have been the main agency of secularization of Islamic Societies. They have been effectively teaching that Islam is irrelevant to understanding this world and solving its problems. Many of their graduates adopt develop misunderstanding and doubts about their faith. But even when they are strong practicing Muslims, they haven't been trained to challenge the secular dogmas that have been integrated into their curriculum."

He continues...

"For centuries our societies, culture and education system were free of the secular/religious dichotomy. The dichotomy started in the West during its Renaissance as it threw away its religious Dogmas which had become a burden - and found a speedy path to material progress using a - religious or secular approach. The Industrial Revolution gave it momentum. Colonialism brought secular ideology and religion of secular humanism to the Muslim lands."

"Thus our intellectual leadership surrendered to the West and we were in a no-win situation. If they accepted and taught Western Sciences, they would also be teaching Anti Islamic Dogmas. If they stayed isolated, they would be left behind in science and material progress."

So what did the Muslim World do which unfortunately created Secular Vs religious polarity? He continues:

"In response Muslim developed 2 approaches. Our Madrassah's preserved Islamic Knowledge and values by hermetically scaling themselves against Western Influences. It is this reason why Islamic knowledge is well and alive today. However, they are not equipped to provide leadership in most areas of the society. This role has gone to the graduates of western-style schools and colleges. Unfortunately these schools and their curriculum nurture secular ways of looking in to this world and solving its problems. The tensions created by the 2 diametrically opposed systems can be seen today in every Muslim country."

So what Khalid has explained is what Sheikh Imran interpreted as the Sun Rising from The West and it is for the East where this major sign would make its greatest impact. Yes USA is part of the Western World, but the Sun Rose when Great Britain became the Ruling State in the World colonizing all parts of the world along with other Western countries, from where Dajjal began his rule of 'a day like a year.'

It is the religious/secular dichotomy which has produced generations of Intellectual and Political leader ship in the Muslim World which is One Eyed! They have eyes yet they do not see, they have ears yet they do not hear they have hearts yet they do not understand, they are blinded.


format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Any ahadeeth attributed to the prophet pbuh is to be read as "literal" unless the scholars interpret them as Allegorical - and this must be a majority view. Why has Sh Imran Hosein ignored this very established methodology? strange for someone who keeps talking about methodology don't you think?
This dichotomy helped preserved the Islamic writings but deprived even the Islamic Madrassah's to see with Both Eyes i.e. Internal Intuitive and External Rational Faculty (Majma Ul Bahrain, Point of 2 Oceans, Musa and Khidr, Surah Al Kahf) . This is the main reason for the majority to be unable to interpret the signs.

This also resulted in the following prophecy of Prophet Muhammad (saw) to come to light about Islamic Knowledge being taken away, scholarship becoming weak and corrupt becoming cause of sectarian violence:

Anas ibn Malik said, "I shall tell you a Hadeeth which I heard from the Messenger of Allaah, and which no-one will tell you after me. I heard him say, 'Among the signs of the Hour will be the disappearance of knowledge and the appearance of ignorance."

Abd Allaah said, "The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said, 'Just before the Hour,there will be days in which knowledge will disappear and ignorance will appear, and there will be much killing.'

“In the last times men will come forth who will fraudulently use religion for worldly ends.
They will wear long woolen garments. Their tongues will be sweeter than sugar, but their hearts will be the hearts of wolves." (Tirmidhi)

Blind following with no independent thinking will produce alims and muftis who will give Fatwas causing sectarian violence, making even the guided ones a target just because they belong to a particular school, exactly the state of my country and city, Karachi, Pakistan:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/758789/t...ad-in-karachi/
http://www.thenews.com.pk/article-15...own-in-Karachi
http://www.thenews.com.pk/article-16...Dr-Shakeel-Auj

Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "Verily, Allah does not seize knowledge by force, taking it forcefully from the people; instead, He takes away knowledge by the death of the scholars, until their remains no scholar. The people will take ignorant leaders, who will be asked, and who will rule without knowledge. They are misguided and they will misguide others." (Bukharee)

The Darul Ulooms/Madrassah's because are not state run anymore (as states has become secular) their operations depend upon funding through private channels, this is in Pakistan, Lebanon, Iraq, all 3 are victims of sectarian violence.

It also brought the following prophecy to light about the Secular Minded and Nurtured Individuals:

Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman said, "The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said, 'Islaam will become worn out like clothes are, until there will be no-one who knows what fasting, prayer, charity and rituals are. The Qur'aan will disappear in one night, and no Ayah will be left on earth."

The Prophet (sal- Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said, 'The Hour will come when leaders are oppressors, when people believe in the stars and reject al-Qadar (the Divine Decree of destiny) when a trust becomes a way of making a profit.'

One has to obviously understand the 'disappearing of the Quran' not literal as Allah (swt) has promised to preserve it in Surah Al Hijr Verse 9. Therefore under the light of the Quran it means that the approach to Quran would be changed, it will be mechanically recited and not studied and pondered anymore. Only the words of Quran would be left.

Another reason why Islamic Scholarship does not have the ability to interpret these Signs is because a majority of them do Taqlid (blind following) or follow a set of rules handed down to them from their teachers in Madrassah's. If teacher did not teach their students independent thinking they are most likely not to adopt it and neither teach it to their subordinates. Lack of independent thinking is what has deprived Scholars from different schools and opinions to live in harmony with each other.

The Sun Rising from the West is a warning for the East i.e. Ummah of Muhammad (saw). One has to realize the gradual transformation of the East how it has taken place to be able to see this and how it is causing disintegration of the Ummah.

Please do share your thoughts, I believe you need to understand where Sheikh Imran is coming from to be able to understand his point of view.
Reply

MuslimInshallah
11-23-2014, 02:35 AM
Assalaamu alaikum,

I have been following your discussion with some interest. There are so many different things that could be discussed…!

But I would like to point out one thing that I find a little distressing. If you believe that the ascendency of the Europeans as from the Renaissance was the sign of the sun's rising from the West, are you not suggesting that the doors of forgiveness were closed centuries ago… and that we today were doomed long before our births?

It seems to me that the sun's rising from the West (and min, it seems to me, might be better translated as from the direction of), is a sign that would happen very soon before the End.

(smile) May Allah Bless you for your efforts and diligence in trying to understand these things.
Reply

Scimitar
11-24-2014, 04:56 AM
Bro Syed, when I contacted Shaikh Imran Hosein with information, he told me he was too busy... funny thing about the shaikh bro, he says, if you disagree with me, then present the evidence - when I do - he refuses to indulge me.

I give up.

Scimi
Reply

syed_z
11-25-2014, 02:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum,

I have been following your discussion with some interest. There are so many different things that could be discussed…!

But I would like to point out one thing that I find a little distressing. If you believe that the ascendency of the Europeans as from the Renaissance was the sign of the sun's rising from the West, are you not suggesting that the doors of forgiveness were closed centuries ago… and that we today were doomed long before our births?

It seems to me that the sun's rising from the West (and min, it seems to me, might be better translated as from the direction of), is a sign that would happen very soon before the End.

(smile) May Allah Bless you for your efforts and diligence in trying to understand these things.

Wa Alaikum Salaam Wa Rahmatullahi Sister :),

Really sorry for the delay in getting back with you.

I appreciate your question, Allah (swt) knows best the absolute final meaning of 'Sun Rising From the West' and as a result of it 'Doors to Taubah (repentance) being Shut', but we can try with what Allah (swt) has taught us in Quran and Hadith to try and understand them and Jazak Allah for your duas inshA'allah may Allah (swt) teach us more on this subject.

We need to understand the words 'Doors to Taubah being Shut' in the light of both Quran and Hadith to figure out what could it really mean. Sheikh Imran Hosein always puts special emphasis on this methodology that we should not always study any hadith or Quranic Verse in isolation when trying to understand its meaning and that we should refer to Quran 1st and then get those hadith which are in line with the meaning of the Quran's Verses on that particular subject and then try to understand it in totality. Or as Sheikh refers to this methodology as System of Meanings.

For example if we take this Verse of the Quran:

(14:04) And We did not send any messenger except [speaking] in the language of his people to state clearly for them, and Allah sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

If I understand these highlighted words in isolation then that would mean Allah (swt) would guide whomsoever He Wills and not guide whomsoever He does not will and so you could be blessed and I unfortunate even though I might be sincerely seeking guidance? Obviously no, rather Allah (swt) will guide whosoever chooses and wills to be guided is the actual meaning and this we would say it based on another Verse of the Quran:

2:26-27 None does He cause to go astray save the iniquitous, who break their bond with God.

Muhammad Asad comments on Allah (swt) sending astray and says "man's 'going astray' is a consequence of his own attitudes and inclinations and not as a result of an arbitrary "predestination".

Similarly we need to understand the 'Doors to Taubah being shut' first under the light of the following Verses of the Quran on Taubah:

(39:53) Say 'O you servants of Mine who have transgressed against your own selves! Despair not of God's mercy: behold, God forgives all sins - for Verily He alone is much forgiving - a dispenser of grace!

(6:54) Your Sustainer has Willed upon Himself the law of grace and mercy - so that if any of you does a bad deed out of ignorance and thereafter repents and lives righteously, He shall be (found) much forgiving, dispenser of grace

(4:110) he who does evil or (otherwise) sins against himself, and thereafter prays to God to forgive him, shall find God much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.



Now how can Allah (swt) Shut the Doors when He Himself is saying in the Quran that He is Willing to forgive whoever truly seeks repentance from Him? How can even those be doomed and destined for the fire who may be sincere and are trying their best to repent and become righteous if we interpret Sun Rising from the West meaning Western Dominance which initiated with Renaissance?

Since Allah (swt) is Just in dealing with His servants, to my mind it could only mean one thing and that is that Mankind Will themselves Shut The Doors of Taubah and not turn to Him to repent any more at least a majority of Mankind i.e. 999 out of every 1000 who will act as carbon copies of Gog and Magog and adopt a godless lifestyle (we discussed earlier in the thread please refer to our earlier discussions on Gog and Magog).

Even though those among the 999 who will try to repent but they will only at the time of their dieing moment to which Allah (swt) says "repentance shall not be accepted from those who do evil deeds until their dying hour, and then say, Behold, I now repent'; nor from those who die as denies of truth" (4:18)

One thing is very clear that the Sun Rising from the West has brought amazing technological advancements in its wake that mankind has been startled by discoveries being made in the Universe through space explorations of NASA and European Space Agency and even at the microscopic level in medical science in major Universities in the West, such discoveries that clearly spell out for us the following Verse:

(41:53) We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the Truth (Haqq). But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?

Haqq is Islam. How much more evidence does mankind need to make them believe that there is a God who controls the entire complex system of the Universe? The evidence stares right at them through their own discoveries, yet they still want to give an emotional role to religion, ritualistic, sectarian, intolerance i.e State of Muslim world today or deny God completely while believing that they can conquer the universe one day like secular West.

We have to keep one thing in mind that Prophet Muhammad (saw) recited the following Verse whenever the 10 Major Signs were mentioned to him:

(6:158) What! Do they wait either for the angels to appear before them or for your Lord to come unto them or for some clear signs of your Lord to appear before them? When some clear signs of your Lord will appear
(i.e. Yajuj Majuj, Dajjal, Sun Rising from the West, beast of the Earth, Jesus Son of Mary), believing will be of no avail to anyone who did not believe before, or who earned no good deeds through his faith.


Since majority of mankind 999/1000 has decided to abandon the religious way of life and worship his desires or misuse the religion as being done in the Muslim world, then Allah (swt) will release these 10 signs before the Day of Judgment so mankind should wake up, have faith and earn good deeds through their faith before the impact of these Major Signs overwhelms the entire mankind, which it already is doing. The bottom line is to do good deeds as many as we all can as these Signs are appearing with our Faith in Allah (swt).

Faith coupled with good deeds are necessary otherwise Faith without good deeds is equivalent to no faith.

This is what I have come to understand about Sun Rising from the West, still the final meaning is with Allah (swt) we're just trying to understand.
Reply

syed_z
11-25-2014, 03:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Bro Syed, when I contacted Shaikh Imran Hosein with information, he told me he was too busy... funny thing about the shaikh bro, he says, if you disagree with me, then present the evidence - when I do - he refuses to indulge me.

I give up.

Scimi
Asalaam O Alaikum Bro Scim,

Good to hear from you. I understand what your saying, we need to understand that Sheikh has hundreds of people like you an me emailing him with their theories, so I'm pretty sure its very difficult for him to discuss those with him. I would suggest that you see him and meet him if you can and then discuss it with him. He's on a Malaysia trip right now So I believe if you plan a trip, might as well take it to Malaysia.

Tell you the truth, I wanted to get answers about several questions but was unable to, until I kept patient and waited then Allah (swt) Himself answered those for me through the Sheikh or through some other sources, and then I understood what he was explaining even better.

Never say I give up:

(18:60) And [mention] when Moses said to his servant, "I will not cease [traveling] until I reach the junction of the two seas or continue for a long period."

Sheikh himself has said in his lectures that it might be a long process, insight is not revealed in one day, it takes long before Allah (swt) reveals something to you and then that knowledge gained through insight will connect with all the other external knowledge you had gained through observation giving you a clear picture of what it is.

But you have to be patient with people like Sheikh Imran, even I don't agree with his theory of Beast of the Earth whom he refers to as State of Israel or Beast of the Holy Land (Al Ard Al Muqaddas). I believe its not that and something else. We'll wait and see if Allah (swt) can help us understand this as we move further in to the future. May be we can learn something that explains his theory or something else which we can inform him.
Reply

Scimitar
11-25-2014, 07:10 PM
Walakum salaam bro Syed,

When I started to study the story of Dhul Qarnayn, i first studied the orthodox version of it - and was satisfied with the information. Many lessons can be learned from surah Al Kahf, ie the 4 trial et al.

However, I wanted to go further - and we are told to seek knowledge wherever we find it. Right?

So, I stepped outside of the traditional Islamic mind frame and ventured out.

I don't agree with the linguistic definitions of Yajuj Majuj given through etymology, for me these do not work and are up for interpretation.

What is not up for interpretation, is history.

So, I took hiatus in order to go into the historical anomaly surrounding Dhul Qarnayn and Yajuj wa Majuj.

And found out things which absolutely blew my mind away. I have not shared this information with anyone except a few people whom I trust. I gave part 1 of 4 parts of this information to Sh Imran Hosein in PM. I was waiting to hear what he had to say about it before I sent him the other parts - but you know where that went.

I'm sending you a PM. You should see what I have in sha Allah

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
02-06-2015, 04:42 PM
I was wondering about the etymology of the words Ya'juj and Ma'juj... scholars have often applied arabic etymology to these two words, can someone explain why?

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
02-07-2015, 04:20 AM
This hadeeth is a lesser known one on the topic of Dhul Qarnayn,


Narrated by Buraydah:


I heard the Messenger of Allah say: “O Buraydah! There will be many armies after I pass away. You should join the army that goes towards Khurasan. Then you should stop at the city of ‘Merv’ for it was built by ‘Dhul-Qarnayn’ and he prayed for blessings in it and therefore no harm will affect the dwellers of that city.”


(Al-Tabarani, Al-Mu'jam Al-Awsat)



From the historical record, it is said that Cyrus built the city of Merv...


The first city of Merv was founded in the 6th century BC as part of the expansion into the region by the Achaemenid Empire of Cyrus the Great (559–530 BC), but the Achaemenid levels are deeply covered by later strata at the site.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merv#History



Very intriguing information, giving us another clue which ties Cyrus with the personage of Dhul Qarnayn.


Allahu Alam.


Scimi
Reply

islam123271
03-15-2015, 07:00 PM
dhul qarnayn means "two horns" he was the man who built something around the gog and magog villiage to prevent them from making more destruction. they will come out At prophet isa A.S time
Reply

shadab
03-29-2015, 05:24 PM
assalawalekum scimitaarr and my fellow users of this forum. I will add a little spice to this subject or rather a clue, to identify gog and magog. a tribe of people with dog head[cynocephalus] used to fight yajooj and majooj, and, people with short height or stature used to fight this dog headed people. all of these strange creature of allah is connected. I will tell u later from where I have acquired this info.
Reply

Scimitar
03-29-2015, 05:36 PM
Wa'alykum salaam Shadab, welcome to the forum.



You can find more info here: http://wup-forum.com/in-search-of-go...og-t25494.html

Scimi
Reply

saif-uddin
03-29-2015, 09:36 PM
Allah tala tells us to avoid speculation/theorising based in doubtful sources ikhwan,
Reply

Scimitar
03-29-2015, 11:14 PM
If you would be kind enough to determine for me, what you consider doubtful, I will happily take a look.

Scimi
Reply

shadab
03-30-2015, 07:16 AM
assalawalekum brother scimi. well i am aware about this pic,which, is correct me if i am wrong sketched by iranian painter. i have been to wake up forum but didn't find it to be conclusive. i must admit it, though, u guys have put a lot of effort to gather info on this subject. there is a hadith in the book of imam jalaluddin assuyuti r.a, where jews asked our beloved rasulallah s.a.w about dhulqarnayn a.s. it is mentioned in this hadith a very detailed description of dhulqarnayn a.s encounters with different places and beings.about his city he founded,mountain qaf,which i guesstimate it brings us to hollow earth or different layers of earth.man dhulqarnayn a.s travelled to places we can only wonder.i find it so strange as to why we havent been able to find exact location of this wall. even though we have been provided with huge amount of knowledge beacause of our beloved prophet imam ul ambiya rasulallah s.a.w. than i thought its not about intelligence, wisdom is what we lack. the more closer you are to rasulallah s.a.w ahle bayt a. s sahaba rizwanallahhu ajmain, more mysteries get revealed by allah s.w.t. watch the video of allama hafiz muhammad akbar on surat al kahf . " an awliya is a sheathed sword, when he is into this world, but when he leaves this world he is an open sword or independent force with immense power moving whenever, and, anywhere he so desires ". miyan mir qadri r.a.
Reply

saif-uddin
03-30-2015, 09:47 AM
Refer to the link you posted

Only authentic info about Dhul Qarnayn alayhi wa salam we have is the Quran and Sunnah.

Again we been told to avoid speculation

جزاك اللهُ خيراً‎
Reply

Scimitar
03-30-2015, 03:20 PM
Thank you for the reminder :) but you've not explained to me - what doubtful sources are - yet.

Scimi
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Scimitar
03-30-2015, 03:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by shadab
assalawalekum brother scimi.
walakum salaam bro Shadab.

format_quote Originally Posted by shadab
well i am aware about this pic,which, is correct me if i am wrong sketched by iranian painter. i have been to wake up forum but didn't find it to be conclusive.
I've only shared some information on wup forum - the rest is in our research forum only - and no where else yet.

format_quote Originally Posted by shadab
i must admit it, though, u guys have put a lot of effort to gather info on this subject. there is a hadith in the book of imam jalaluddin assuyuti r.a, where jews asked our beloved rasulallah s.a.w about dhulqarnayn a.s. it is mentioned in this hadith a very detailed description of dhulqarnayn a.s encounters with different places and beings.about his city he founded,mountain qaf,which i guesstimate it brings us to hollow earth or different layers of earth.
The hollow earth theory is one I place no providence in with relation to DhulQarnayns travels. I find that the surah al Kahf, ayah's 83-99 give us a "map" if we but use our knowledge of geography, to determine the best possible route - which I have done already... Allahu alam.

format_quote Originally Posted by shadab
man dhulqarnayn a.s travelled to places we can only wonder.
I think we've all wondered, at some point :)

format_quote Originally Posted by shadab
i find it so strange as to why we havent been able to find exact location of this wall. even though we have been provided with huge amount of knowledge beacause of our beloved prophet imam ul ambiya rasulallah s.a.w. than i thought its not about intelligence, wisdom is what we lack.
Or maybe, the barrier fell already - millenia ago? This is what many don't consider because they prefer to think a barrier still exists.

format_quote Originally Posted by shadab
the more closer you are to rasulallah s.a.w ahle bayt a. s sahaba rizwanallahhu ajmain, more mysteries get revealed by allah s.w.t. watch the video of allama hafiz muhammad akbar on surat al kahf . " an awliya is a sheathed sword, when he is into this world, but when he leaves this world he is an open sword or independent force with immense power moving whenever, and, anywhere he so desires ". miyan mir qadri r.a.
If I have time, i will check it out iA

Scimi
Reply

saif-uddin
03-30-2015, 03:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Thank you for the reminder :) but you've not explained to me - what doubtful sources are - yet.

Scimi
I did,

The non-Islamic conjecture you cited/linked
Reply

Scimitar
03-30-2015, 03:45 PM
Then by that logic, stop anything you are reading which is not Quran nor Sunnah?

Sorry bro, but even Dr Israr Ahmed has cited non islamic sources in his study of Dhul Qarnayn and Ya'juj wa Ma'juj, so have plenty of other scholars - so you'd do well to do some homework first, and research their reasonings into why they researched outside of Quran and Ahadeeth.

Scimi
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shadab
03-30-2015, 04:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
walakum salaam bro Shadab.



I've only shared some information on wup forum - the rest is in our research forum only - and no where else yet.



The hollow earth theory is one I place no providence in with relation to DhulQarnayns travels. I find that the surah al Kahf, ayah's 83-99 give us a "map" if we but use our knowledge of geography, to determine the best possible route - which I have done already... Allahu alam.



I think we've all wondered, at some point :)



Or maybe, the barrier fell already - millenia ago? This is what many don't consider because they prefer to think a barrier still exists.



If I have time, i will check it out iA

Scimi
assalawalekum bro scimi, you are right about the barrier, if it was on the surface of the earth. but don't you think that controlling elite forces of today would try to hide it from every single one of us. the remnants of it wouldn't be easy to find, if at all possible. coming back to dhulqarnayn a.s. , he was a roman slave as told by our beloved propht s.a.w. he lived for 1600 years. he lived for so long just to spread deen e elahi. as reported by hadhrat ali r.a. , dhulqarnayn was a man of ikhlas . whatever he prayed for was instantly answered by allah s.w.t . he died two times prior to his death , once he was preaching tawheed to a people , who inturn struck him , which left a swollen wound on his side of forehead. but allah s.w.t. resurrected him to punish those evildoers. this type of incident happened again in his life and due to Allah's mercy he was given life to punish those culprits. leaving a similar kind of wound on other side of forehead , so if you are looking for dhulqarnayn a.s. , he has to be unique than any other worldwide momeen ruler of ancient time. I don't think cyrus fits this description. I would love to see your research in any form,whenever, you desire to show publicly. keep working hard brother .:sl::thumbs_up
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saif-uddin
03-30-2015, 04:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Then by that logic, stop anything you are reading which is not Quran nor Sunnah?

Sorry bro, but even Dr Israr Ahmed has cited non islamic sources in his study of Dhul Qarnayn and Ya'juj wa Ma'juj, so have plenty of other scholars - so you'd do well to do some homework first, and research their reasonings into why they researched outside of Quran and Ahadeeth.

Scimi
It's not the citing of non Islamic sources,

But the fact that you have cited no certain evidence,

Just conjecture which we are supposed to avoid.
Reply

Scimitar
03-31-2015, 03:20 AM
you failed to deliver any proof that I have conjectured. I have employed method in my study and you have employed a bias in your opinion. That is all. You still haven't proven anything, except that you are good at not proving anything :D

Scimi
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Scimitar
03-31-2015, 03:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by shadab
assalawalekum bro scimi, you are right about the barrier, if it was on the surface of the earth. but don't you think that controlling elite forces of today would try to hide it from every single one of us. the remnants of it wouldn't be easy to find, if at all possible. coming back to dhulqarnayn a.s. , he was a roman slave as told by our beloved propht s.a.w. he lived for 1600 years. he lived for so long just to spread deen e elahi. as reported by hadhrat ali r.a. , dhulqarnayn was a man of ikhlas . whatever he prayed for was instantly answered by allah s.w.t . he died two times prior to his death , once he was preaching tawheed to a people , who inturn struck him , which left a swollen wound on his side of forehead. but allah s.w.t. resurrected him to punish those evildoers. this type of incident happened again in his life and due to Allah's mercy he was given life to punish those culprits. leaving a similar kind of wound on other side of forehead , so if you are looking for dhulqarnayn a.s. , he has to be unique than any other worldwide momeen ruler of ancient time. I don't think cyrus fits this description. I would love to see your research in any form,whenever, you desire to show publicly. keep working hard brother .:sl::thumbs_up
wassalaam bro shadab,

you can search through these topics:

http://wup-forum.com/rebuttal-refuta...og-t28277.html

http://wup-forum.com/who-is-gog-and-magog-t21410.html

http://wup-forum.com/gog-and-magog-t...gs-t27040.html

http://wup-forum.com/gog-magog-new-theory-t27036.html

but the main one you want to read up on is this one: http://wup-forum.com/in-search-of-go...og-t25494.html

Scimi
Reply

shadab
03-31-2015, 08:31 AM
assalawalekum bro scimi, as you are aware about the fact that our beloved prophet s.a.w. went on meraj , he met yajooj and majooj, who obviuosly rejected his call to come to islam. now, that , being said he also met many different civiilsation including djaboulqa and djaboulsa. now what amazes me is how most of us forget that these people yajooj and majooj rejected the true faith of islam, so there is no way these people will be momeen at any cost. this debunks all those crazy theories of khazars , vikings his king and her king:statisfie,being yajooj and majooj. infact, those people of djaboulqa and djaboulsa accepted islam by giving bayat to rasulaallah s.a.w. and these people were definitely of not our type , because rasulaallah s.a.w. mentioned that they are not aware of adam a.s. neither do they know about sun and moon. iblees ,too, have not penetrated their world . as far as,khazarians or vikings, goes many from them have accepted islam at different juncture of time. people will definitely say "woe to us, we were not aware about this " as it is mentioned in the quran . it always feel good to share knowledge . peace be on you brother .
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greenhill
03-31-2015, 10:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by shadab
coming back to dhulqarnayn a.s. , he was a roman slave as told by our beloved propht s.a.w. he lived for 1600 years. he lived for so long just to spread deen e elahi. as reported by hadhrat ali r.a. , dhulqarnayn was a man of ikhlas . whatever he prayed for was instantly answered by allah s.w.t . he died two times prior to his death , once he was preaching tawheed to a people , who inturn struck him , which left a swollen wound on his side of forehead. but allah s.w.t. resurrected him to punish those evildoers. this type of incident happened again in his life and due to Allah's mercy he was given life to punish those culprits. leaving a similar kind of wound on other side of forehead , so if you are looking for dhulqarnayn a.s. , he has to be unique than any other worldwide momeen ruler of ancient time.

This is the first I've heard of this.

There must be more to it than just this. Please, where can I find the narrative.


:peace:
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shadab
03-31-2015, 01:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by greenhill
This is the first I've heard of this.

There must be more to it than just this. Please, where can I find the narrative.


:peace:
assalawalekum bro , it is mentioned in imam jalaluddin suyuti book. you can also watch video of allam hafiz muhammed Akbar on surat al kahf. peace brother:welcome:
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Scimitar
03-31-2015, 03:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by greenhill
This is the first I've heard of this.

There must be more to it than just this. Please, where can I find the narrative.


:peace:
they are from sufi sources: https://ahmedamiruddin.wordpress.com...sra-wal-miraj/

bro shadab, once you read through the links I have shared with you, maybe we can discuss this topic more thoroughly in sha Allah, until then it will be wasteful I feel.

Scimi
Reply

shadab
04-02-2015, 07:16 AM
assalawalekum bro scimi , one thing is for sure dhulqarnayn a.s is not cyrus. i insist everybody to check out the video on dhulqarnayn a. s by muhammad shahid attari of daawat e islami. "god doesn't aid those , who don't realise the power of truth" . i was not allowed to post exact link of that page , it can be found on youtube though .
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Scimitar
04-04-2015, 06:27 PM
seen the video and am not convinced bro shadab. hes ignored many historical and judaic premises and totally ignored the information which refuted his opinion. that is hardly scholarly. his bias is boring to be really honest.

Scimi
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Scimitar
04-04-2015, 06:29 PM
bro shadab... have you read thru the threads I linked you? we should not discuss this until you understand my position and can debate in context... if you can do that, we can talk further - if not, I'd be wasting my time and you would be too.

Scimi
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shadab
04-05-2015, 09:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
seen the video and am not convinced bro shadab. hes ignored many historical and judaic premises and totally ignored the information which refuted his opinion. that is hardly scholarly. his bias is boring to be really honest.

Scimi
assalawalekum bro scimi , yes I would say that it is not very convincing as it doesn't covered much of what we required. but nobody has done it previously too. I was just wondering the other day and this thought came to my mind, why did allah nowhere else mentioned dhulqarnayn a.s than in surat al kahf . kahf meaning cave , I assume . cave, ring any bell. take care brother .
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Scimitar
04-05-2015, 02:29 PM
the cave refers to the sleepers of the cave - the firdt story in the chapter... tell me you knew that already, else I really am wasting my time.

Scimi
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shadab
04-05-2015, 03:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
the cave refers to the sleepers of the cave - the firdt story in the chapter... tell me you knew that already, else I really am wasting my time.

Scimi
assalawalekum bro scimi , yes I know the story of cave and his dwellers who were the best momeen of that time, since you brought this one , I am sure you know about the "details" allah provided us. they will say ,they were 3 or 5 , maybe 7, tell them my beloved prophet s.a.w. those things lie with allah alone . shaddad , that fool thought he will compete with allah by creating heaven on earth or atleast that's what he thought [perception:heated:]. has anybody seen it or part of it. yes , why , because allah wanted that specific individual to see it, all power lies with allah alone . have we discovered that place which allah describes in quran in sura al fajr ( city like no other ) ? . I don't believe you have wasted your time and I would love to get co ordinates of that place , where, that mammoth concave structure stands or was, since you have input so much of your time . allah and his last most beloved prophet mohammad s.a.w. knows best . keep working hard bro .
Reply

shadab
04-05-2015, 04:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
the cave refers to the sleepers of the cave - the firdt story in the chapter... tell me you knew that already, else I really am wasting my time.

Scimi
assalawalekum bro scimi , yes I know the story of cave and his dwellers who were the best momeen of that time, since you brought this one , I am sure you know about the "details" allah provided us. they will say ,they were 3 or 5 , maybe 7, tell them my beloved prophet s.a.w. those things lie with allah alone . shaddad , that fool thought he will compete with allah by creating heaven on earth or atleast that's what he thought [perception:heated:]. has anybody seen it or part of it. yes , why , because allah wanted that specific individual to see it, all power lies with allah alone . have we discovered that place which allah describes in quran in sura al fajr ( city like no other ) ? . I don't believe you have wasted your time and I would love to get co ordinates of that place , where, that mammoth concave structure stands or was, since you have input so much of your time . allah and his last most beloved prophet mohammad s.a.w. knows best . keep working hard bro .
Reply

Scimitar
04-05-2015, 07:49 PM
the info you are asking me for is in the threads i linked you - but you are wasting your time now by asking me questions which anser themselves if only you had READ those threads bro,

Assalaam alaikum
Reply

shadab
04-06-2015, 06:37 AM
assalawalekum bro scimi , what i meant was you try hard look for signs , asses every detail mentioned in quran and books of tafsir, it wont be revealed to us , unless allah wills it. yes , i have read your previous threads which i didnt find to be productive at all , as i have said it before . tell me, honestly , do you think you have reached the exact destination where dhul qarnayn a. s. met those people who were in dire need of protection from yajuj and majuj .
Reply

Scimitar
04-06-2015, 02:21 PM
walakum salaam bro shadab,

in one word, YES... but that info is not in those threads - that info is something I am putting into a series. Some things are worth waiting for. Earlier in this thread, I posed a question.

format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
I was wondering about the etymology of the words Ya'juj and Ma'juj... scholars have often applied arabic etymology to these two words, can someone explain why?

Scimi
This question, yields an answer which poses an even better question - one which proves where the barrier was most likely built... I have that information.

If you want it - answer that question correctly.

One thing I keep mentioning here is method. I follow a method of investigation. Studying historical information in a religious context requires a sympathetic methodology, and not one which solely relies on empirical proofs - the obvious reason for this bro shadab, is so we can place the information within the Quran as the foundation into our investigation.

I've heard many naysayers claim that the mystery about dhul qarnayn and ya'juj wa ma'juj are exactly that - mysteries which will remain unsolved until the end of time. With so many signs of the end appearing in our current time frame - I honestly think many people have failed to realise that the time they refer to - is actually the time period we currently inhabit. And so, with their view firmly held, they've locked off any ability to recognise that the plethora of information available from reliable sources outside of the Islamic scholarships are worthy of consideration and more - they are worthy of inclusion in our studies - things like geology, geography, etymology, cartography, people movements and migrations, ancient cultures and traditions, aryanism, sedentary and nomadic peoples, the dna record and the r1a1 gene, the seima turbino phenomenon, metallurgy, and a whole host of other complimentary studies which help us to better contextualise the information within the Quran.

And even our noble prophet Muhammad pbuh said:

‘Utlub il ‘ilma wa law fis-Sin.
The Prophet (s) said, “Seek knowledge even in China,”

And China, during the time of the Prophet pbuh, was not a Muslim nation - in fact it nevr was a majority Muslim nation - But many believe that knowledge should be completely confined to simply the Quran and the Sunnah... how they've managed to deceive themselves with that train of thought is beyond my ability to comprehend or even justify that statement.

Knowledge is knowledge, and one thing I've come to understand is that the more we acquire it, the more we find it's relativity to all that knowledge applies to.

I've taken the time to respond to you here simply because you've claimed you've read those threads yet posted that the information is unproductive... :) that made me smile, simply because you have not understood the information and what it portends to. Something similar happened in the elenin thread, I tried to warn people they were committing shirk - they didn't listen, in the end I made a video and then they listened, and repented. So I guess, I will have to make this series when i am ready, and that will probably do a better job of presenting my findings than any forum post ever can in sha Allah.

Allah knows best.

Scimi
Reply

shadab
04-07-2015, 06:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
walakum salaam bro shadab,

in one word, YES... but that info is not in those threads - that info is something I am putting into a series. Some things are worth waiting for. Earlier in this thread, I posed a question.



This question, yields an answer which poses an even better question - one which proves where the barrier was most likely built... I have that information.

If you want it - answer that question correctly.

One thing I keep mentioning here is method. I follow a method of investigation. Studying historical information in a religious context requires a sympathetic methodology, and not one which solely relies on empirical proofs - the obvious reason for this bro shadab, is so we can place the information within the Quran as the foundation into our investigation.

I've heard many naysayers claim that the mystery about dhul qarnayn and ya'juj wa ma'juj are exactly that - mysteries which will remain unsolved until the end of time. With so many signs of the end appearing in our current time frame - I honestly think many people have failed to realise that the time they refer to - is actually the time period we currently inhabit. And so, with their view firmly held, they've locked off any ability to recognise that the plethora of information available from reliable sources outside of the Islamic scholarships are worthy of consideration and more - they are worthy of inclusion in our studies - things like geology, geography, etymology, cartography, people movements and migrations, ancient cultures and traditions, aryanism, sedentary and nomadic peoples, the dna record and the r1a1 gene, the seima turbino phenomenon, metallurgy, and a whole host of other complimentary studies which help us to better contextualise the information within the Quran.

And even our noble prophet Muhammad pbuh said:

‘Utlub il ‘ilma wa law fis-Sin.
The Prophet (s) said, “Seek knowledge even in China,”

And China, during the time of the Prophet pbuh, was not a Muslim nation - in fact it nevr was a majority Muslim nation - But many believe that knowledge should be completely confined to simply the Quran and the Sunnah... how they've managed to deceive themselves with that train of thought is beyond my ability to comprehend or even justify that statement.

Knowledge is knowledge, and one thing I've come to understand is that the more we acquire it, the more we find it's relativity to all that knowledge applies to.

I've taken the time to respond to you here simply because you've claimed you've read those threads yet posted that the information is unproductive... :) that made me smile, simply because you have not understood the information and what it portends to. Something similar happened in the elenin thread, I tried to warn people they were committing shirk - they didn't listen, in the end I made a video and then they listened, and repented. So I guess, I will have to make this series when i am ready, and that will probably do a better job of presenting my findings than any forum post ever can in sha Allah.

Allah knows best.

Scimi
assalawalekum bro scimi , first of all , i always want you to keep smiling brother. nothing is worth more than bringing smile on your fellow muslim brother. see, this, essence of life is what we have lack now for centuries. pride has blind us to such extent that we dont consider our muslim brother human being, let alone non muslim brother. knowledge with wisdom is the true source to the truth of any matter. i always respected the way you have shown respect to your fellow forum user by replying to each and every thread directed to you. that alone dignifies your character . and yes i am aware about that hadith of rasulaallah s.a.w. about travelling to china for gaining knowledge, which defines the intellect and intelligence of these people. the, only thing i want to mention is we gotta think out of the box about some matters mentioned in quran, which is available not only for momeen, but also for mushrikeen , who have use quran not only to benefit from it , but also to criticise on matters which science haven't evolved yet to process it. mysticism is one of those essence which mushrikeen from the initial days have rejected or made joke about . see all these brings us to ruh (soul) which is the most vital of all ,for life to remain valid everywhere on the universe . that is why allah has mentioned in quran ruh is something which allah alone have knowledge about it. that has shut the gutters of all those mushriks and munafiqeen ,once and for all. it proves that one must have a soul, living only for the will of allah as shown and done by rasulaallah s.a.w. sahaba ridhwanallahu ajmain and awliya of muslim ummah, to understand certain things, which, allah has kept hidden for some purpose . I ,as always, eagerly waiting to get acquainted with your series pertaining to the subject in hand. i dont exactly remember the sura in which allah tells us, "soon we will show them signs in the farthest corners of the universe". you remember the video you have posted about king tubba of yemen may allah be pleased with him , see that video and tell me what you have notice in that video . for just a second or less than a sec , cameraman shifts his focus on the wali ullah sitting beside the speaker . what is so special about showing a glimpse of an awliyah , well it is related to our subject , we know about it, we can see it and feel it, but in true sense we don't exactly understand what is it. hidden in plain sight . see this so called science nerds have aterm for this phenomenon, "aurora" and after a quite awhile , i would say . i, do believe that we may be living in the end times .if not us, than our generation might witness the things , that world was completely stranger to .
Reply

shadab
04-16-2015, 07:05 AM
Albazar narrated from Yousf the son of Marrium that he said, while he was setting with Abu Bakara — a man came and gave salam then said, “Do you know me?” then Abu Bakara said, “Who are you?” The man then said, “Do you know that story of the man that came to the prophet and said that he saw the dam.” Abu Bakara then said, “Is that you?” The man then said, “Yes.” Abu Bakra said, “Sit with us and tell us your story.” The man then said, “I went to a land where the people only had steel — steel was their only profession. Then I went into a shack and laid down on my back and lifted my legs against the wall. At sunset, I heard a noise. The noise was like no other noise I have ever heard and it was extremely frightening. The owner of the house I was in said, “Don’t be afraid. That’s the noise of the people who finished their work at the dam for the day, do you want to see it?” So I said, yes. Then he took me to the dam. I saw the dam and it was bricks on top of each other made of steel. Each brick is sturdy as a rock and had a redish color. The nails in the dam were the size of tree branches. So when I came back to the prophet and told him my story. The prophet asked me to describe it to him. After I described the dam, the prophet said whomever would be pleased to see a man that actually saw the dam, to look at him.” Abu Bakara then said, “that man is truthful.”
Reply

Scimitar
04-16-2015, 11:48 AM
assalaam alaikum bro shadab,

there is a pretext to this story you mention which you have not included here - i ask why you didn't do that?

format_quote Originally Posted by shadab
Albazar narrated from Yousf the son of Marrium that he said, while he was setting with Abu Bakara — a man came and gave salam then said, “Do you know me?” then Abu Bakara said, “Who are you?” The man then said, “Do you know that story of the man that came to the prophet and said that he saw the dam.” Abu Bakara then said, “Is that you?” The man then said, “Yes.” Abu Bakra said, “Sit with us and tell us your story.” The man then said, “I went to a land where the people only had steel — steel was their only profession. Then I went into a shack and laid down on my back and lifted my legs against the wall. At sunset, I heard a noise. The noise was like no other noise I have ever heard and it was extremely frightening. The owner of the house I was in said, “Don’t be afraid. That’s the noise of the people who finished their work at the dam for the day, do you want to see it?” So I said, yes. Then he took me to the dam. I saw the dam and it was bricks on top of each other made of steel. Each brick is sturdy as a rock and had a redish color. The nails in the dam were the size of tree branches. So when I came back to the prophet and told him my story. The prophet asked me to describe it to him. After I described the dam, the prophet said whomever would be pleased to see a man that actually saw the dam, to look at him.” Abu Bakara then said, “that man is truthful.”
the pretext is that the man saw the barrier in a dream, and not in reality.

Did you know that?

Scimi
Reply

shadab
04-18-2015, 06:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
assalaam alaikum bro shadab,

there is a pretext to this story you mention which you have not included here - i ask why you didn't do that?



the pretext is that the man saw the barrier in a dream, and not in reality.

Did you know that?

Scimi
assalawalekum bro scimi , dream or no dream , i was curious about the steel city that was mentioned above, people who were expert in steel making . have you been able to narrow it down ?
Reply

Scimitar
04-18-2015, 11:44 AM
Yes. Theres no steel city lol... rather, ramparts reimforced with iron... in beijing. if u want that infp, you will find it in the thread I linked you.... are u sure you have read it? Its all there.

Scimi
Reply

shadab
04-19-2015, 07:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Yes. Theres no steel city lol... rather, ramparts reimforced with iron... in beijing. if u want that infp, you will find it in the thread I linked you.... are u sure you have read it? Its all there.

Scimi
assalawalekum bro scimi ..... my god u got a tongue for Chinese food, tell me is that your favourite cuisine. lol'''':D:p
Reply

Scimitar
04-19-2015, 09:24 PM
i don't really like Chinese food - I don't know what gave you that idea... or what it has to do with this topic. anything further to add bro shadab? or are we done here? :)
Reply

Signor
04-20-2015, 05:39 AM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by shadab
assalawalekum bro scimi , what i meant was you try hard look for signs , asses every detail mentioned in quran and books of tafsir, it wont be revealed to us , unless allah wills it. yes , i have read your previous threads which i didnt find to be productive at all , as i have said it before . tell me, honestly , do you think you have reached the exact destination where dhul qarnayn a. s. met those people who were in dire need of protection from yajuj and majuj .
I know this is between you Br Shadab and Scimitar so pardon for interruption.

I think you are wrong in assessment,judgement about a learning journey cannot be made by merely reading the articles and maps shared on an internet thread.We(me and Scimi) know each other for a long time and whenever he happens to find an item giving his research new dimensions,he ask me to check things out.But you know,like you,I don't find it "productive and valuable".How can I?

Then there was a time,when I took things a little bit far from whats already there.Being there,Experiencing it,had me all of it figured out.

To cut a long story short,I was in search of a location and only to find it,I didn't only studied geology but also etymology,logical thinking and many others.After it,I was able to understand one thing clearly,Unless one don't put his/her own sweat and blood to an effort,you can never ever truly appreciate it.

No offense intended.:)
Reply

shadab
04-20-2015, 06:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Signor
:sl:



I know this is between you Br Shadab and Scimitar so pardon for interruption.

I think you are wrong in assessment,judgement about a learning journey cannot be made by merely reading the articles and maps shared on an internet thread.We(me and Scimi) know each other for a long time and whenever he happens to find an item giving his research new dimensions,he ask me to check things out.But you know,like you,I don't find it "productive and valuable".How can I?

Then there was a time,when I took things a little bit far from whats already there.Being there,Experiencing it,had me all of it figured out.

To cut a long story short,I was in search of a location and only to find it,I didn't only studied geology but also etymology,logical thinking and many others.After it,I was able to understand one thing clearly,Unless one don't put his/her own sweat and blood to an effort,you can never ever truly appreciate it.

No offense intended.:)
assalawalekum bro signor , none taken , how can we get offended , when we are of the same ummah , following and loving our beloved prophet s.a.w. and after the same objective, to atleast narrow down the location of the barrier, if we can't exactly pinpoint the location. as you said , to cut long story short , where do you think lays that barrier or its remnants. my guess , bro, it could be in austrian wilderness , central europe . or it could be svalbard , north pole . take care
Reply

Signor
04-20-2015, 10:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by shadab
assalawalekum bro signor , none taken , how can we get offended , when we are of the same ummah , following and loving our beloved prophet s.a.w. and after the same objective, to atleast narrow down the location of the barrier, if we can't exactly pinpoint the location. as you said , to cut long story short , where do you think lays that barrier or its remnants. my guess , bro, it could be in austrian wilderness , central europe . or it could be svalbard , north pole . take care
The research I made was on an interrelated but altogether a seperate topic.

You missed the whole point bro,My point was to seek answers on your own instead of asking questions by making an effort and as always 'on the shoulders of giants we build".
Reply

shadab
04-22-2015, 05:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Signor
The research I made was on an interrelated but altogether a seperate topic.

You missed the whole point bro,My point was to seek answers on your own instead of asking questions by making an effort and as always 'on the shoulders of giants we build".
assalawalekum bro signor , got your point . may allah grant us to the right path of righteous followers of deen .
Reply

Scimitar
04-27-2015, 01:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Signor
'on the shoulders of giants we build".
we do stand upon their shoulders, and we see a wider horizon than they did, but without them we wouldn't see anything... Allahu Akbar.

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
04-27-2015, 01:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by shadab
it could be in austrian wilderness , central europe . or it could be svalbard , north pole . take care
It could be on the northern frontiers of China, in Siberia, in Krygystan, in Caucuses, along the silk road, *enter location here... it could have been anywhere - but the fact remains, no one has been able to find it in the modern age - with all our satellites, maps and knowledge of the planet, no one ha found it still standing - so I say - it fell, and to back that up - I linked you my thread on WUP which gave you the reasonings to back up that statement... did you read it? probably not eh bro shadab? you should read that thread if you really are interested.

Scimi
Reply

shadab
04-29-2015, 07:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
It could be on the northern frontiers of China, in Siberia, in Krygystan, in Caucuses, along the silk road, *enter location here... it could have been anywhere - but the fact remains, no one has been able to find it in the modern age - with all our satellites, maps and knowledge of the planet, no one ha found it still standing - so I say - it fell, and to back that up - I linked you my thread on WUP which gave you the reasonings to back up that statement... did you read it? probably not eh bro shadab? you should read that thread if you really are interested.

Scimi
assalawalkum bro scimi , good to hear from you ,again. bro, you and everyone would agree with me that release of yajuj and majuj is one of the major signs of qiyamah . we didnt find any remnants of that wall , its bcoz allah dont want us to. take for example that island of dajjal , where is it , many people guessed it, but nobody can say for certain . there are many things in and around this universe which have hijaab over it. we dont have to go that far , there is another creation of allah "jinn" which literally means hidden. lives around us , learns from us ,more powerful from us but cant hurt us. have you seen their world , bro. nope , take care friendooo
Reply

Scimitar
04-29-2015, 12:41 PM
bro, signs are manifesting all around us, and the major signs (10) could already be underway - Shaikh Imran Hosein seems to think so. And if you'd watch his lectures you may ascribe to his view too...

Go in peace :)

Scimi
Reply

Abz2000
04-29-2015, 04:31 PM
The name literally means "the possessor of two horns" or "the two horned one",
When looking at Quranic terminology one finds that the term horn usually refers to a sprung people, people of an age or generation.
Ch 36 yaseen uses the term quroon (plural of horn) when refering to generations.

So if it's metaphorical (something chapter 18 keeps appearing as) and happens in the future (as possibly alluded to by the advice to read it during the fitnah of dajjal), then it's a man of two generations/epochs who meets gog and magog.

The hadith tell us that one man who appears in two generations faces off with gog and magog.
But Allah alone knows the unseen and knows how it will pan out,
And since He (swt) sent a definite to destroy the people of Yunus (pbuh), but repented of the punishment when the people of nineveh repented, who's to know which part of the prophecy swarm plays out?

Allah swt can abrogate whatever He likes.
I hope we're not disappointed if everyone repents and none of the scary events happen.
Though it seems like wishful thinking to imagine everyone will fix up.
Reply

shadab
04-30-2015, 07:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
The name literally means "the possessor of two horns" or "the two horned one",
When looking at Quranic terminology one finds that the term horn usually refers to a sprung people, people of an age or generation.
Ch 36 yaseen uses the term quroon (plural of horn) when refering to generations.

So if it's metaphorical (something chapter 18 keeps appearing as) and happens in the future (as possibly alluded to by the advice to read it during the fitnah of dajjal), then it's a man of two generations/epochs who meets gog and magog.

The hadith tell us that one man who appears in two generations faces off with gog and magog.
But Allah alone knows the unseen and knows how it will pan out,
And since He (swt) sent a definite to destroy the people of Yunus (pbuh), but repented of the punishment when the people of nineveh repented, who's to know which part of the prophecy swarm plays out?

Allah swt can abrogate whatever He likes.
I hope we're not disappointed if everyone repents and none of the scary events happen.
Though it seems like wishful thinking to imagine everyone will fix up.
assalawlekum bro , thats a good explanation , you reminded me of something which i have forgot. what you said about two epochs or generations is completely collaborative with tafsirs and hadiths . hazrat ali r.a. mentions about his (dhul qarnayn a.s.) resurrection when asked by certain person. since, our, history today tells us nothing about dhul qarnayn as most of the so called modern people who are aethist , like to keep this god fearing person in the dark. but sooner or later the promise of allah s. w. t. will be fulfilled, as said by dhul qarnayn himself in surat al kahf , " when the promise of my rab comes , he will level this wall flat as a camel back" . no power can change the fate , when it is written by rab tallah , whether it is metaphorical or literal. take care
Reply

shadab
04-30-2015, 08:23 AM
asslawaelkum bro scimi , i have been watching sheikh imrans lecture for sometime now. frankly, speaking initially , i was stunned by his theory too. but as i digged deeper into the matter i found his theory to be completely useless . and, i will tell you why, modern technoloy and a little step towards innovation has led us to believe that we are the most advanced civilisation on planet earth, since the beginning . which is not only vague but also a big fraud to mislead people directly into the trap of dajjal. as, allah, himself doesnt like those who consider themselves above the others or rest of the creation . now coming back to sheikh imrans theory, he might have thought and this is my perception, no offense to anybodys intellect, that there might be a rational explanation to the story of dhul qarnayn a.s and gog and magog. so what did he do , tried to stand out from the crowd by proposing a new theory of khazars which is completely baseless if you ask me, to avoid the doubters and objectors of allah s.w.t and his signs. i will tell you why i am being anti imran, allah s.w.t. as mentioned in hadith , will say to isa. a.s. i am going to release such a creation of "mine" whom none will be able to fight. now allah is referring not only to us but also to isa a.s. who will be present amongst people. i believe this hadith of rasulallah s.a .w fulfills the prophecy mentioned in quran in sura fussilat about the signs of allah s.w.t . peace and blessings on our beloved prophet muhammad s.a.w
Reply

Abz2000
04-30-2015, 10:17 AM
How many generations does isa witness?
Does he meet gog and magog in round two?

Another question that sometimes plays in my mind when looking at google earth is: does gog and magog have anything to do with the extreme capitalist consumer producer process? They're good at dumping food and using vast quantities of water in the plastic and rubber and oil industries to the extent of creating water shortages, have almost drained tiberias (sea of galilee) with factories and artificial irrigation in the scorched deserts.

The map speaks volumes when one notices how the majority of civilizations originated and dwelt in the middle east before scorching it and dispersing to more fertile climes.
The amount of oil available in the region is an indication of how many generations have turned into carbon.

Such phenomena also show the wisdom of ancient hermits who saw virtue in living frugal lives.
Taking only what they need from earth and leaving with a short and easy account.

The only barrier i can think of is that of taqwa, since in the age of aviation and space travel, planet earth has no unscalable wall.
And Allah knows best.
Reply

shadab
04-30-2015, 01:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
How many generations does isa witness?
Does he meet gog and magog in round two?

Another question that sometimes plays in my mind when looking at google earth is: does gog and magog have anything to do with the extreme capitalist consumer producer process? They're good at dumping food and using vast quantities of water in the plastic and rubber and oil industries to the extent of creating water shortages, have almost drained tiberias (sea of galilee) with factories and artificial irrigation in the scorched deserts.

The map speaks volumes when one notices how the majority of civilizations originated and dwelt in the middle east before scorching it and dispersing to more fertile climes.
The amount of oil available in the region is an indication of how many generations have turned into carbon.

Such phenomena also show the wisdom of ancient hermits who saw virtue in living frugal lives.
Taking only what they need from earth and leaving with a short and easy account.

The only barrier i can think of is that of taqwa, since in the age of aviation and space travel, planet earth has no unscalable wall.
And Allah knows best.
assalawalekum bro- well for starters we , intellects dont have the right to question allah's decree upon any matter. we dont need to question how many generations before the release of gog and magog . you know why? since , you are talking about taqwa , you should have complete faith imaan on the one and only lord , he has the right to do anything, you are telling me we got planes and other 007 toys , so what ? how many generations before us had this notion of so called "most advanced" people . what happened to them ? where are they now . how many times have allah s. w. t told us of the people with vanity in quran and their ultimate end , you are gonna deny that . instead we should ask ourselves why allah s.w.t has send us in the end times , we are the people of last and most beloved prophet muhammad s.a.w. we have been given guideline in the form of glorious quran , to learn from the errors committed by the people before us. did anyone from us have ever reached to mountain qaaf, if , we indeed rely on some fancy toys to claimed the title of most advanced generation . how many things we should take as a metaphor , tell me , where is the city of iram mentioned in quran ? ohh last time i checked , our so called mind boggling technologies were busy making hollywood films ,for what , to earn money , isn't it. to attain taqwa we gotta rid ourselves of inhuman qualities inside us , to become human . we need to walk on the right path as shown by rasulaallah s.a.w . and our beloved sahabas r.a.w. instead of asking foolish questions that will lead us to nowhere.
Reply

Abz2000
04-30-2015, 03:26 PM
Wow, a bit harsh innit?
Sometimes questions aren't questions but a part of rhetoric that probe thinking.
And the reason we're not currently doing nafl salaat and are on the forum is for the sake of sharing genuine musings.
Otherwise we'd be reading quran or hadith or a science or math book.
Get me?

Regarding technological innovation, Allah has given the people of this age more material comforts and conveniences than previously, well, sort of, it was all there before but since humans usually develop and innovate collectively and learn from experience which they build on, we just used the khalifah brain He gave us along with inspiration to develop, and obviously, it's logical that mankind reaches it's peak at the end.
Global information sharing (zahar al qalam) means that an idea is devwloped and improved upon in hours rather than years.

Just that part of the test is whether we delude ourselves into thinking we're gods or we reflect on what these signs are pointing to.

Just hope it's doesn't get as bad as the hollywood Uni-Sols.
So many movies with dead tissue running off electricity these days.
Reply

shadab
05-02-2015, 06:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Wow, a bit harsh innit?
Sometimes questions aren't questions but a part of rhetoric that probe thinking.
And the reason we're not currently doing nafl salaat and are on the forum is for the sake of sharing genuine musings.
Otherwise we'd be reading quran or hadith or a science or math book.
Get me?

Regarding technological innovation, Allah has given the people of this age more material comforts and conveniences than previously, well, sort of, it was all there before but since humans usually develop and innovate collectively and learn from experience which they build on, we just used the khalifah brain He gave us along with inspiration to develop, and obviously, it's logical that mankind reaches it's peak at the end.
Global information sharing (zahar al qalam) means that an idea is devwloped and improved upon in hours rather than years.

Just that part of the test is whether we delude ourselves into thinking we're gods or we reflect on what these signs are pointing to.

Just hope it's doesn't get as bad as the hollywood Uni-Sols.
So many movies with dead tissue running off electricity these days.
assalawalekum friendoo i would like to disagree on so called advancement of civilisation at the end times , well , then everybody has their own perception of advancement. recent discoveries of megaliths have clearly spatted on the face of so called liberals and scientists of today, how in the earth is that possible ? rhetoric, isn't it . well the answer is given in quran , obviously, which clearly describes the khilafah of qaum e aad (adites) . allah told us in quran about their advancement and their big ego, as well. now tell me, was that the end of history ? people will be doing sins like no other time in history , in the end times . well the good thing is the momeen will no longer be on the earth at that time. advancement towards khabasat (evil) thats where, most people will be heading towards in the endddd .
Reply

Abz2000
05-02-2015, 08:05 AM
Depends on what one means by civilization - technological advancement isn't necessarily a requirement for being civilized- or a sign of moral or social advancement...although it is a comfort if used properly.

Anyways, the term civilization itself is subjective and loaded- some falsely consider it to mean living in a town instead of a village and being domesticated by Godless laws and subservience to the whims of the kufr trend makers.

Stray sheep aren't necessarily mainstream even if they call themselves such.
Not implying that i'm an angel either.

Your perception of scientists seems to have been effected by the bad experiences or poor samplings you've had,
Not all of them can be bundled in with the liberals.
Some scientists consider their studies and work to be 'ibaadah, since there are in the creation of the heavens and the earth signs for those endued with understanding
Reflecting and contemplating on how it's not just come about from nothing or for nothing, the endless power, knowledge, skill and eye for detail required in the design and management can make one dizzy and feel like sitting down.
Science vs faith is a false dichotomy.
Reply

Abz2000
05-02-2015, 08:40 AM
There was once loadsa water here:



The Hereafter Series narrated by Imam Awlaki rahimahullah CD7 ...

https://m.facebook.com › notes › the-her...Mobile-friendly -*CD7: The Minor*Signs*of the*Day of Judgment*39-48. Number Thirty Nine: The*Arabian Peninsula*Becomes Gardens with Flowing Rivers ... This desert, RasoolAllah sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam says a day will come when it will become*green*...

39. The Arabian Peninsula becomes Green with Rivers Again

mujahid4all.blogspot.com › 2012/05 › 3...Mobile-friendly - May 29, 2012 -*A day will come when the*Arabian Peninsula*will become*green, ... Minor*signs*of the*day of judgment*...




National and International Water Law and Administration: Selected ...

https://books.google.com.bd › booksDante Augusto Caponera*- 2003 - ‎Law

... stored in Lake*Tiberias, were to have been diverted through the East Ghor canal to*irrigate*75 thousand acres of land.


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shadab
05-04-2015, 08:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Depends on what one means by civilization - technological advancement isn't necessarily a requirement for being civilized- or a sign of moral or social advancement...although it is a comfort if used properly.

Anyways, the term civilization itself is subjective and loaded- some falsely consider it to mean living in a town instead of a village and being domesticated by Godless laws and subservience to the whims of the kufr trend makers.

Stray sheep aren't necessarily mainstream even if they call themselves such.
Not implying that i'm an angel either.

Your perception of scientists seems to have been effected by the bad experiences or poor samplings you've had,
Not all of them can be bundled in with the liberals.
Some scientists consider their studies and work to be 'ibaadah, since there are in the creation of the heavens and the earth signs for those endued with understanding
Reflecting and contemplating on how it's not just come about from nothing or for nothing, the endless power, knowledge, skill and eye for detail required in the design and management can make one dizzy and feel like sitting down.
Science vs faith is a false dichotomy.

assalawalekum bro i have seen the video uploaded before , utterly misdirected towards no mans land. i wanna ask you this , is it comletely dried up and since, you guys really think that yajuj majuj is the cause of all this . then, the question remains , where in the world are they ? if the radma has come down , pal , where are its remnants ? our perception hardly matters , when it comes to scientists and liberals, well i will agree with you on one thing , not all of them are personal wipers of finance motivated, corrupt and degenerated corporations . it is the fact that matters, now tell me , where have you found that iron and copper wall to be lying in ruins ? i mean its location , obviously.
Reply

The-Deist
05-04-2015, 01:33 PM
Brother Scimi here is something I found

https://www.google.dz/?gws_rd=cr&ei=...riped+garments

You might want to post it into WPU in shaa Allah
Reply

Scimitar
05-04-2015, 02:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
The name literally means "the possessor of two horns" or "the two horned one",
When looking at Quranic terminology one finds that the term horn usually refers to a sprung people, people of an age or generation.
Ch 36 yaseen uses the term quroon (plural of horn) when refering to generations.

So if it's metaphorical (something chapter 18 keeps appearing as) and happens in the future (as possibly alluded to by the advice to read it during the fitnah of dajjal), then it's a man of two generations/epochs who meets gog and magog.

The hadith tell us that one man who appears in two generations faces off with gog and magog.
But Allah alone knows the unseen and knows how it will pan out,
And since He (swt) sent a definite to destroy the people of Yunus (pbuh), but repented of the punishment when the people of nineveh repented, who's to know which part of the prophecy swarm plays out?

Allah swt can abrogate whatever He likes.
I hope we're not disappointed if everyone repents and none of the scary events happen.
Though it seems like wishful thinking to imagine everyone will fix up.
Very true. However I also want to point out that the term "Dhul Qarnayn" most likely refers to the fact that he reached the earths most westerly and easterly points during his travels - the horn of the west and the horn of the east. Let's contextualize the term.

The Jews tested the Prophet pbuh with the question "Tell us about the young man who travelled a great distance"

Within this understanding, we can safely assume that the Jews the term "Dhul Qarnayn" and so, when the ayaat (no.83) starts with "And they ask thee (O Muhmammad) about Dhul Qarnayn, say to them I shall recite to you a remembrance about him"

The ayaat then go on to confirm that this man travelled a great distance to the west in order to spread Islamic Monotheism, and in doing so reaches the furthest west where he finds the sun to appear setting in the sea... the ayaat then go on to confirm that he travels east in order to spread Islamic Monotheism and reaches the furthest East where the sun appears to rise from... along the way Allah mentions some landmarks, in order to show us the great distance that Dhul Qarnayn had travelled.

The terms "Dhul Qarnayn" was known by the Jews, thus they did not argue or contest the Ayaat regarding him.

How did the Jews know about this? Easy... look in their holy texts. Daniels prophecy, in Isaiah... in fact he is mentioned 23 times buy name and alluded to several times more - further, non biblical accounts from historians such as Herodotus and Josephus (who were also Jews btw) give away much as to the term "Dhul Qarnayn"... in fact, in Herodotus' Histories, book 1 volum 1 - the very first story mentioned is the story of Cyrus...

...Cyrus was hailed as a Messiah to the Jews, even though Cyrus himself was not a Jew but a mixed race child of a Persian mother and Mede father...

in fact, one thing you will notice with Cyrus, is that however you try to fit the term "dhul qarnayn" to him, it always works - but not with Alexander, or the Tubba Kings, or anyone else for that matter.

At first, when I was discussing this with bro Ministry of Truth in WUP, and on skype, we both agreed that personally we didn't want Dhul Qarnayn to be Cyrus because we just didn't like Cyrus for some reason lol... the more I investigated, the more I became convinced that Cyrus was indeed the DHul Qarnayn of the Quran.

And Allah knows best

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
05-04-2015, 02:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by shadab
asslawaelkum bro scimi , i have been watching sheikh imrans lecture for sometime now. frankly, speaking initially , i was stunned by his theory too. but as i digged deeper into the matter i found his theory to be completely useless . and, i will tell you why, modern technoloy and a little step towards innovation has led us to believe that we are the most advanced civilisation on planet earth, since the beginning . which is not only vague but also a big fraud to mislead people directly into the trap of dajjal. as, allah, himself doesnt like those who consider themselves above the others or rest of the creation . now coming back to sheikh imrans theory, he might have thought and this is my perception, no offense to anybodys intellect, that there might be a rational explanation to the story of dhul qarnayn a.s and gog and magog. so what did he do , tried to stand out from the crowd by proposing a new theory of khazars which is completely baseless if you ask me, to avoid the doubters and objectors of allah s.w.t and his signs. i will tell you why i am being anti imran, allah s.w.t. as mentioned in hadith , will say to isa. a.s. i am going to release such a creation of "mine" whom none will be able to fight. now allah is referring not only to us but also to isa a.s. who will be present amongst people. i believe this hadith of rasulallah s.a .w fulfills the prophecy mentioned in quran in sura fussilat about the signs of allah s.w.t . peace and blessings on our beloved prophet muhammad s.a.w
walakum salaam bro, I find your reasoning to be completely useless, and my reasons are the same as bro Abz has given above. As Abz said, technology is not a determining factor in civilization being advanced according to Muslim ideals. Moral fortitude is.

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
05-04-2015, 02:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
How many generations does isa witness?
Does he meet gog and magog in round two?

Another question that sometimes plays in my mind when looking at google earth is: does gog and magog have anything to do with the extreme capitalist consumer producer process? They're good at dumping food and using vast quantities of water in the plastic and rubber and oil industries to the extent of creating water shortages, have almost drained tiberias (sea of galilee) with factories and artificial irrigation in the scorched deserts.

The map speaks volumes when one notices how the majority of civilizations originated and dwelt in the middle east before scorching it and dispersing to more fertile climes.
The amount of oil available in the region is an indication of how many generations have turned into carbon.

Such phenomena also show the wisdom of ancient hermits who saw virtue in living frugal lives.
Taking only what they need from earth and leaving with a short and easy account.
I really enjoyed reading this post bro Abz.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
The only barrier i can think of is that of taqwa, since in the age of aviation and space travel, planet earth has no unscalable wall.
And Allah knows best.
The barrier was/is a physical one, as described in the Quran - the verses are plain and not allegorical in reference to Dhul Qarnayn and Ya'jooj wa Ma'jooj.

A barrier, built between a mountain pass, made of blocks of Iron, covered with Qhitre to stop Ya'jooj wa Ma'jooj from attacking a "people who lived near a mountain pass" - the idea being, the barrier only protected that people - no one else...

...moving on...

Many Muslims seem to think that the barrier was built to protect the entire human race from Ya'jooj wa Ma'jooj... but no where in the Quran does it mention that - nor in the hadeeth - all we are told is that when the barrier falls, that's when they will come out from every elevation - advantage... when I trace history, I see that has already happened.

From the 8th century when Lindesfarne was invaded by the Vikings, to their pragmatic revision to become the Normans and accept Christianity as their fatih so they can justify their need to invade Jerusalem... hence the Crusades...

This very act fulfilled Judaic, Christian and Muslims propechy in one foul swoop. Look. In Judeo-Christian prophecy, Gog attacks Jerusalem from a northerly direction. In Islamic prophecy, the first of them drink from the sea of Galilee (Tiberias)... these things happened, THEY HAPPENED...between the 8th and 11th centuries.

However, the attack on Jerusalem was never an attack on Islam, it was a money grab - same as when they were attacking the tribe who lived between the mountain passes - just look at history. It's amazing and very telling.

The Muslims never defeated the Crusaders - nope - that is a common misconception by Muslims who all too often become too proud and exaggerate things. Salahuddin Ayyubi (r.a) came to an amicable agreement with the Crusaders and they left Jerusalem but not the region. It was the berber prince who dreamed that Allah told him where to take his army in order to drive the Crusaders back away from Muslim lands at that point - hence - they were turned back but not before they got what they come for - the tablets of ancient magics in Jerusalem which they found under Sulaiman AS throne, the very same Sulaiman AS had confiscated from the Jews during his lifetime... thus, when the Pope found out that the Crusaders had defected to worshipping evil entities - the pope sent out his own army to capture the Crusaders - the crusaders ended up taking refuge with Robert the Bruce - King of Scots, and they founded the first masonic church in Sctoland - the Priory of Sion (zion)... and the Crusades literally have not stopped since - Israel, was the vision, always was... and these wars which have fmoneted over the past 800 years now - are exactly to do with that - the recognition of Israel as its own sovereign state...

NO sooner had the Crusaders been turned back and the threat to Judeo-Christianity levelled, the Muslims faced a threat of their own, this time from the EAST... Ma'jooj...

The Mongol Scourge had invaded Fars, and was now moving swiftly towards Baghdad... even Ibn Taymiyyah identified them as "Ya'jooj wa Ma'jooj" and for that, the Mongols jailed him and he died in Jail. The Mongols (like the Scythian Viking) also pragmatically adopted an Abrahamic faith - they adopted Islam but there was nothing Muslim about them. They abolished the Shariah and instead installed their own Mongol law (communist) and killed, maimed and absolutely ravaged anything to do with Islamic history, the sciences etc etc etc - a very dark stain was left on humanity the day the Mongols invaded Muslim lands...

While the Mongols were advancing, they met their cousins the Ashkenaz - who were Scythian of heritage (GOG), and these Scythians decided to adopt Judaism as a religion in order to complete the trio of deception... So by now, all three - Judaism, Christianity and Islam had proponents from Gog and Magog acting as adherents whilst maintaining a pragmatic approach in order to gain power over their subjects...

...this is HISTORY. And where we stand right now, is at the highway junction where history and information collide into a spaghetti junction, and only those of us well travelled in the dialectics of this study can navigate these effectively by Allahs will.

Brothers such as shadab should realise that the leve of study and comparative methodology presented within this thread is something which requires investigation and not the same tired rhetoric of repeating what a scholar has written - this is what he does, without using his own intellect and modern resources to ascertain the accuracy of said statements... this is where bro shadab is lacking severely. In sha Allah he can re correct his approach.


Scimi
Reply

Abz2000
05-04-2015, 04:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by shadab
if the radma has come down , pal , where are its remnants ? our perception hardly matters , when it comes to scientists and liberals, well i will agree with you on one thing , not all of them are personal wipers of finance motivated, corrupt and degenerated corporations . it is the fact that matters, now tell me , where have you found that iron and copper wall to be lying in ruins ? i mean its location , obviously.
Show me the murky spring where the sun sets and i'll show you the radn.
The allusion to the spring should be sufficient to indicate that there's much encryption.

You mentioned hollywood which reminded me of kung fu panda where they go on the quest for a scroll and ultimately find it to be blank- then realise that they were filling it up themselves.
Qadr is something we can't fathom, we do however know that we fulfil it somehow.

If i gave it a try i'd say that a man found good people and sinners in the west, a weak and helpless people in the east, and a people being attacked in the middle east who are prepared to work for the sake of Allah and have been given resources too.
And Allah knows best.

Not everything is spelled out (especially regarding future events), and not everything is encrypted, then there are those things that we will always miss....

Reply

shadab
05-05-2015, 12:58 PM
[QUOTE=Abz2000;2845931]Show me the murky spring where the sun sets and i'll show you the radn.
The allusion to the spring should be sufficient to indicate that there's much encryption.

You mentioned hollywood which reminded me of kung fu panda where they go on the quest for a scroll and ultimately find it to be blank- then realise that they were filling it up themselves.
Qadr is something we can't fathom, we do however know that we fulfil it somehow.

If i gave it a try i'd say that a man found good people and sinners in the west, a weak and helpless people in the east, and a people being attacked in the middle east who are prepared to work for the sake of Allah and have been given resources too.
And Allah knows best.

Not everything is spelled out (especially regarding future events), and not everything is encrypted, then there are those things that we will always miss..

assalawalekum bro funny aint it ? but that still does not answers my question about the location of that radma . there are many places or you can say almost everything in quran has some inside meaning. it is just a matter of faith. closeness to allah s.w.t. and his last and most beloved prophet s.a.w. well coming back to our beautiful subject, since you didnt give me a location of that radma , i will give you the location of the wall or the people who were responsible for building that monument, instead of the place where sun sets in a murky pool of water . but first , i would like to thank my brother scimi , for providing with enough information to let me investigate further into this subject, thank you brother scimitar . it was the chinese and the region of china where that wall was built , and allah s.w.t knows best. i could be wrong because the true knowledge lies with allah s.w.t . and his last most beloved prophet muhammad s.a.w. it could be henan region in china. since these people were so much intrigued in steel making . different machines and equipments of steel were produce in that region for thousands of years before than any known region around the globe .
Reply

Scimitar
05-05-2015, 06:41 PM
well, there is this one wall location which still exists... but hardly anyone even knows about it... one very clever Egyptian fellow who went there quite recently, and tested it with a metal detector at its highest points - the thing was bleeping off the charts... I've not shared that info with anyone yet. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything... hmmm.

Scimi
Reply

shadab
05-06-2015, 08:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
well, there is this one wall location which still exists... but hardly anyone even knows about it... one very clever Egyptian fellow who went there quite recently, and tested it with a metal detector at its highest points - the thing was bleeping off the charts... I've not shared that info with anyone yet. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything... hmmm.

Scimi
assalawalekum bro scimi you dont need to dislcose any further bro . you have done enough already. but i would like to suggest you something . first of all you are right to not unveiled the location of that place with allah's s.w.t . help , because if it won't be right than it will create fitnah in minds of many people. even if its right , its your right to disclose it whenever you want . keep doing the right work for the sake of only allah s.w.t and his last most beloved prophet muhammad s.a.w . take care .
Reply

The-Deist
05-08-2015, 01:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
one more teaser :D

[Taken from one of my posts in WUP:]

In the far north east of the Russian autonomous regions of Siberia - past the Verkhoyansk range and settled into the momsky mountains, we find the following...



the mountains the wall was built between are actually two separate mountains adjoined at the bottom, and opened at the top - looking exactly like a cleft open sea shell as described in the Quran... I have seen this shell like mountain pass - and it took my breath away.


I have the high definition pic but I am not willing to share this atm.


What I will tell you is this:


It's geographically located at the one location where a barrier would most definitely land lock an entire nation. No other place on earth has this geographical occurance withn mountain ranges as passes are prevalent amongst all mountain ranges. Also this correlates with Al Idrisis infamous world map, the Tabulus Rogeriana - which he was commissioned to make by the Sicilian King Roger - who was in fact - A VIKING... as if that wasn't enough of a clue - however, at this point I am probably confusing some of you... anyway,


Clue - beyond vekhoyansk - lies the Autonomous regions about which very little is known prior the year 700AD... as if that wasn't enough of a clue, if you saw the the mountains adjoined, hollowed out from the inside like the concave you'd expect from the inside of a sea shell - you'd most likely be convinced.


Scimi
That is where supposedly a khaliphs messanger went.

To the north east.

Need more refferences.

Studying for now in shaa Allah
Reply

The-Deist
05-08-2015, 01:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
well, there is this one wall location which still exists... but hardly anyone even knows about it... one very clever Egyptian fellow who went there quite recently, and tested it with a metal detector at its highest points - the thing was bleeping off the charts... I've not shared that info with anyone yet. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything... hmmm.

Scimi
Quoted.

Sounds interesting.
Reply

Scimitar
05-08-2015, 04:26 PM
in sha Allah the truth will be apparent soon.

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
05-09-2015, 04:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by StrivingforDeen
That is where supposedly a khaliphs messanger went.

To the north east.

Need more refferences.

Studying for now in shaa Allah
nope... Sallam al Tarjumani ended up in China and then turned back. He was sent by Khaliph al Watiq.

The expedition sent by Khaliph Umar ended up in derbent... not very convincing... sallam al tarjumani on the other hand... here, check this out: http://books.google.co.uk/books/abou...d=PtxOXRlPMA0C I have this in PDF and bro - it's really enlightening.

Scimi
Reply

AbuMuslimasf
05-09-2015, 08:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
in sha Allah the truth will be apparent soon.

Scimi
Calling Brothers For Their Duty! Assalam 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullah,

What we should realise as members of this forum that we possess knowledge and understanding of these strange times we live in that the most of us in this world don't have. This automatically makes it our duty to spread it. In other words, Allah 'Azza wa Jal give us so many chances in life to please Him and at the same time increase our chances to enter Jannah.

Hasn't the time come that we finally grab those chances before they fade away?

The Prophet (Salallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam) said: "Knowledge from which no benefit is derived is like a treasure out of which nothing is spent in the cause of God." - Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 108

We're sitting on that treasure know without benefitting from it. Brothers, humbly and with a slight urgence I call you for a new project that I'm trying to start with brother Scimitar. It's called 'The Original Message'. It will clear up a lot of dust what's been spread in this world, and in shaa 'Allah we'll be doing our duty towards our Creator.

What are we searching?
Brother who can find content. (Information on ahadeeth, Qur'an and the tafseer of them)

We'll also be needing people for extra help in production, this will be when it's needed.

For more information, just reply in this topic and I or brother Scimitar will do our best to answer it.

Wallahi brother time is short on our hands, as we need to act now.

At last I leave you with Surah al 'Asr:

By Al-'Asr (the time). Verily, man is in loss, Except those who believe (in Islâmic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds, and recommend one another to the truth (i.e. order one another to perform all kinds of good deeds (Al-Ma'ruf) which Allâh has ordained, and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds (Al-Munkar) which Allâh has forbidden), and recommend one another to patience (for the sufferings, harms, and injuries which one may encounter in Allâh's Cause during preaching His religion of Islâmic Monotheism or Jihâd).
Anything else?
Reply

AbuTurab
05-19-2015, 02:37 PM
Insha Allah truth will be apparent soon.

Qur'an Suratul-Kahf. Ayaatul-DhulQarnain "I will tell you what you should remember" He says "Dikhra!" You should remember. Not past. But future.

If we look to the place where the sun sets we find Dark Mud or a Dark Sea, not yet. But the literal 3ainin hami'a or hamiya which is the Yellowstone Caldera or Yellowstone Supervolcano. Google both. Hot waiting eye. Or a vessel filled with what results of heat "hami'a. Like molten.

When it breaks out and the lava dries. You get Dark mud. And ashes. A darkened Sea. As of right now it's 3ainin hamiya literally. A body of water. A hot body of water. 3ain. haama. Easy. Looks like an eye. So that the worst below the sky which are our sholars have no excuse in saying we are free of DhulQarnin. He is nothing. While "I will tell you of Dhul Qarnain Dikhra!"

This is real.

the infinitve verb form in the Qur'an does not mean past tense. It's general or future.
Reply

Scimitar
05-19-2015, 05:58 PM
dat you bro? :)

Scimi

EDIT: not who I thought it was... :D
Reply

shadab
06-02-2015, 08:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
dat you bro? :)

Scimi

EDIT: not who I thought it was... :D
assalawalekum bro scimi one thing is for sure that wall has sharp nails all over it , as sahaba ridhwanallahu ajmain reported . that kind of narrow it down , doesnt it ?
Reply

Scimitar
06-02-2015, 10:45 AM
no it doesn't... the Quran specifically states that the wall was made smooth so they were unable to climb it... if there were sharp nails all over it, they could have blunted those and used them for hand and foot holds... you understand bro shadab?

Scimi
Reply

shadab
06-03-2015, 02:25 PM
assalawalekum bro well, i meant it from outside as sahabas r. w. a. reported . not very sharp , obviously , like knife or anything pointy.
Reply

Scimitar
06-03-2015, 03:03 PM
Bro Shadab I've studied the expeditions of Both Khaliph Umr RA and Kahliph Watiq RA also - they didn't turn up anything solid... in fact Khaliph Watiq sent Sallam al Tarjumani on an expedition to find the barrier, he claimed he'd found in in Changan which is near Lake Lop Nor in China/Mongolia border - Schmidt and Donzel claim the location was the wall of china... but no evidence of the copper cutting from his knife remain and I doubt the claim simply because the wall is supposed to be impentrable - and Sallam claiming he penetrated it is in direct conflict with the Quran.

Scimi
Reply

al_firasa
10-10-2015, 08:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
I chased... and found... is anyone really interested?
As-Salaamu Alaikum Brother Scimitar,

I have been reading your posts on different online fora and following your youtube pages. I myself believe DQ was Darius I (Darius the Great) of Behishtun Inscription fame, Allahu Aa3lamu. I would love to get your complete researches if you are willing to share. Please get in touch al_firasa at yahoo dot com.
Reply

Abz2000
10-10-2015, 09:32 AM



Al-An'am (The Cattle)*6:6

-أَلَمْ يَرَوْاْ كَمْ أَهْلَكْنَا مِن قَبْلِهِم مِّن قَرْنٍ مَّكَّنَّاهُمْ فِي الأَرْضِ مَا لَمْ نُمَكِّن لَّكُمْ وَأَرْسَلْنَا السَّمَاء عَلَيْهِم مِّدْرَارًا وَجَعَلْنَا الأَنْهَارَ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهِمْ فَأَهْلَكْنَاهُم بِذُنُوبِهِمْ وَأَنْشَأْنَا مِن بَعْدِهِمْ قَرْنًا آخَرِينَ

Alam yaraw kam ahlakna*min qablihim min qarnin makkannahum fee alardi ma*lam numakkin lakum waarsalna*alssamaa AAalayhim midraran wajaAAalna*alanhara tajree min tahtihim faahlaknahum bithunoobihim waanshanamin baAAdihim qarnan*akhareena

6:6 Do they not see how many a generation We have destroyed before their time - [people] whom We had given a [bountiful] place on earth, the like of which We never gave unto you, and upon whom We showered heavenly blessings abundant, and at whose feet We made running waters flow? And yet we destroyed them for their sins, and gave rise to other people in their stead.

*Al-Kahf (The Cave)*18:83
-وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ عَن ذِي الْقَرْنَيْنِ قُلْ سَأَتْلُو عَلَيْكُم مِّنْهُ ذِكْر

Wayasaloonaka AAan*thee alqarnayni qul saatloo AAalaykum minhu*thikran

AND THEY will ask thee about the Two-Horned One. Say: "I will convey unto you something by which he ought to be remembered."

Maryam 19:74
-وَكَمْ أَهْلَكْنَا قَبْلَهُم مِّن قَرْنٍ هُمْ أَحْسَنُ أَثَاثًا وَرِئْيًا

Wakam ahlakna*qablahum min qarnin hum ahsanu athathan wariyan

And yet, how many a generation have We destroyed before their time-[people] who surpassed them in material power*and in outward show!***

Maryam (Mary)*19:98

*-وَكَمْ أَهْلَكْنَا قَبْلَهُم مِّن قَرْنٍ هَلْ تُحِسُّ مِنْهُم مِّنْ أَحَدٍ أَوْ تَسْمَعُ لَهُمْ رِكْزًا

Wakam ahlakna*qablahum min qarnin hal tuhissu minhum min ahadin aw tasmaAAu lahum rikzan

for, how many a generation*have We destroyed before their time - [and] canst thou perceive any one of them [now], or hear any whisper of them?***

Al-Mu'minun (The Believers)*23:31

*-ثُمَّ أَنشَأْنَا مِن بَعْدِهِمْ قَرْنًا آخَرِينَ

Thumma anshana*min baAAdihim qarnan*akhareena

AND AFTER those [people of old] We gave rise to new generations;



The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.
Revelation 17:8
1The dragon*stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.*
2The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.*3One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.*4People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?”
5The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months.*6It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.*7It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
8All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

9Whoever has ears, let them hear.10“If anyone is to go into captivity,into captivity they will go.If anyone is to be killed*with the sword,with the sword they will be killed.”
This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people.

The Beast out of the Earth
11Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon.*12It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.*13And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people.*14Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.*15The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.*
16It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,*17so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.18This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.e*That number is 666.

Revelation 13
i know where you can find him!
go look at the mirror and reflect carefully :)
maybe read the lyrics of whitney houston's "i'm every woman"
tupac's "how do you want it?"

or check this:




Notice the colours of the crescents on opposite sides - one above and the other below.

video=youtube;GaMylwohL14]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaMylwohL14[/video]

for me the responsibility of my deeds and for you yours, i am free of ascribing partners to Allah.




وَإِذَا وَقَعَ الْقَوْلُ عَلَيْهِمْ أَخْرَجْنَا لَهُمْ دَابَّةً مِّنَ الْأَرْضِ تُكَلِّمُهُمْ أَنَّ النَّاسَ كَانُوا بِآيَاتِنَا لَا يُوقِنُونَ



And when the Word (of torment) is fulfilled against them,
We shall bring out from the earth a beast to them, which will speak to them because mankind believed not with certainty in Our Ayat (Verses/Signs of the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad SAW).

Quran 27:82*Khan:

i have found similar to the following in ashraf ali tanwi's behishti zewar (heavenly ornaments) but no sound ahadith other than the ones from sahih muslim and ibn majah which i'll post below:

4*THE RISING OF THE SUN IN THE WEST*After the night of three nights, the following morning the sun will rise in the west. People’s repentance will not be accepted after this incident.
5*THE BEAST FROM THE EARTH APPEARS*One day later, the Beast from the earth will miraculously emerge from Mount Safaa in Makkah, causing a split in the ground. The beast will be able to talk to people and mark the faces of people, making the believers’ faces glitter, and the non-believers’ faces darkened.
The emergence of the beast ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ AMONG the signs of the Hour will be the emergence of a beast from the earth. It will be very strange in appearance, and extremely huge; one cannot even imagine what it will look like.
It will emerge from the earth and shake the dust from its head.
It will have with it the ring of Solomon and the rod of Moses.
People will be terrified of it and will try to run away, but they will not be able to escape, because such will be the decree of Allah.
It will destroy the nose of every unbeliever with the rod, and write the word "Kafir" on his forehead; it will adorn the face of every believer and write the word "Mu'min" (true believer) on his forehead, and it will speak to people.

Allah SWT said: "And when the Word is fulfilled against them (the unjust), We shall produce from the earth a Beast to (face) them: it will speak to them,'" (al-Naml 27.82)

Ibn 'Abbas, al-Hasan and Qutadah said that "It will speak to them" (tukallimuhum) means that it will address them.
Ibn Jarir suggested that it means that the Beast will address them with the words "'for that mankind did not believe with assurance in Our Signs" (al-Naml 27:82 - latter part of the Ayah).
Ibn Jarir reported this from 'Ali and 'Ata' It was reported from Ibn 'Abbas that tukallimuhum means that the Beast will cut them, i e, it will write the word "Kafir" on the forehead of the unbeliever. It was also reported from Ibn 'Abbas that he will both address them and cut them; this suggestion incorporates both of the previous suggestions; and Allah knows best.

We have already mentioned the Hadith of Hudhayfah ibn Usayd, in which the Prophet (sallallahu alayhe wa sallam) is reported to have said, "The Hour will not come until you see ten signs: the smoke; the Dajjal; the Beast; the sun rising from the West; the descent of Jesus son of Mary; Gog and Magog; and three landslides - one in the East, one in the West, and one in Arabia, at the end of which fire will burst forth from the direction of Aden (Yemen) and drive people to the place of their final assembly."

Abu Hurairah said: "The Prophet (sallallahu alayhe wa sallam) said, 'Hasten to do good deeds before six things happen: the rising of the sun from the West, the smoke, the Dajjal, the Beast, the (death) of one of you or general tribulation." (Muslim.) Baridah said: "

The Prophet (sallallahu alayhe wa sallam) took me to a place in the desert, near Makkah. It was a dry piece of land surrounded by sand. The Prophet (sallallahu alayhe wa sallam) said, 'The Beast will emerge from this place. It was a very small area." (Ibn Majah.)

It was reported from Abu Hurairah that the Prophet (sallallahu alayhe wa sallam) said,
"The Beast of the Earth will emerge, and will have with it the rod of Moses and the ring of Solomon."
It was also reported that he said, "(The Beast) will destroy the noses of the unbelievers with the ring,
so that people seated around one table will begin to address one another with the words "O Believer!" or "O Unbeliever!" (i e, everyone's status will become clear).
(Ibn Majah.)




'Abd Allah ibn 'Amr said,
"I memorised a Hadith from the Prophet (sallallahu alayhe wa sallam) which I have not forgotten since.
I heard the Prophet (sallallahu alayhe wa sallam) say,
'The first of the signs (of the Hour) to appear will be the rising of the sun from the West and the appearance of the Best before the people in the forenoon.
Whichever of these two events happens first, the other will follow immediately.'"
(Muslim).


That is to say, these will be the first extraordinary signs.
The Dajjal,
the descent of Jesus (alayhe salam),
the emergence of Gog and Magog, are less unusual in that they are all human beings.
But the emergence of the Beast, whose form will be very strange, its addressing the people and classifying them according to their faith or unbelief, is something truly extraordinary.
This is the first of the earthly signs,
as the rising of the sun from the West is the first of the heavenly signs.


http://www.iupui.edu/~msaiupui/Ten.txt
http://www.discoveringislam.org/daabba.htm

Reply

Abz2000
10-10-2015, 10:30 AM
bukhari 009.087.171*-
Interpretation of Dreams -*-*-*-*Narrated Samura bin Jundub
Allah's Apostle very often used to ask his companions,
"Did anyone of you see a dream?" So dreams would be narrated to him by those whom Allah wished to tell.

One morning the Prophet said, "Last night two persons came to me (in a dream) and woke me up and said to me, 'Proceed!'

I set out with them and we came across a man Lying down, and behold, another man was standing over his head, holding a big rock. Behold, he was throwing the rock at the man's head, injuring it.
The rock rolled away and the thrower followed it and took it back.
By the time he reached the man, his head returned to the normal state.
The thrower then did the same as he had done before.

I said to my two companions, 'Subhan Allah! Who are these two persons?'
They said, 'Proceed!'
So we proceeded and came to a man Lying flat on his back and another man standing over his head with an iron hook, and behold, he would put the hook in one side of the man's mouth and tear off thatside of his face to the back (of the neck) and similarly tear his nosefrom front to back and his eye from front to back.
Then he turned to the other side of the man's face and did just as he had done with the other side.
He hardly completed this side when the other side returned to its normal state.
Then he returned to it to repeat what he had done before.
I said to my two companions, 'Subhan Allah! Who are these two persons?'
They said to me, 'Proceed!'
So we proceeded and came across something like a Tannur (a kind of baking oven, a pit usually clay-lined for baking bread)." I think the Prophet said, "In that ovent here was much noise and voices."
The Prophet added, "We looked into it and found naked men and women, and behold, a flame of fire was reaching to them from underneath, and when it reached them, they cried loudly.
I asked them, 'Who are these?'
They said to me, 'Proceed!'
And so we proceeded and came across a river." I think he said, ".... red like blood." The Prophet added, "And behold, in the river there was a man swimming, and on the bank there was a man who had collected many stones.
Behold. while the other man was swimming, he went near him. The former opened his mouth and the latter (on the bank) threw a stoneinto his mouth whereupon he went swimming again. He returned and everytime the performance was repeated,
I asked my two companions, 'Who arethese (two) persons?'
They replied, 'Proceed! Proceed!'
And we proceeded till we came to a man with a repulsive appearance, the most repulsive appearance, you ever saw a man having!
Beside him there was a fire and he was kindling it and running around it. I asked my companions,
'Who is this (man)?'
They said to me, 'Proceed! Proceed!'
So we proceeded till we reached a garden of deep green dense vegetation, having all sorts of spring colors.
In the midst of the garden there was a very tall man and I could hardly see his head because of his great height, and around him there were children in such a large number as I have never seen.
I said to my companions, 'Who is this?'
They replied, 'Proceed! Proceed!'
So we proceeded till we came to a majestic huge garden, greater and better than I have ever seen!
My two companions said to me, 'Go up, and I went up'
The Prophet added, "So we ascended till we reached a city built of gold and silverbricks and we went to its gate and asked (the gatekeeper) to open the gate, and it was opened,
and we entered the city and found in it, men with one side of their bodies as handsome as the handsomest person you have ever seen, and the other side as ugly as the ugliest person you have ever seen.
My two companions ordered those men to throw themselves into the river. Behold, there was a river flowing across (the city), and its water was like milk in whiteness.
Those men went and threw themselves in it and then returned to us after the ugliness (of their bodies) had disappeared and they became in the best shape."

The Prophet further added, "My two companions (angels) said to me,
'This place is the Eden Paradise, and that is your place.'
I raised up my sight, and behold, there I saw a palace like a white cloud!
My two companions said to me, 'That (palace) is your place.'
I said to them, 'May Allah bless you both! Let me enter it.'
They replied, 'As for now, you will not enter it, but you shall enter it (one day).

I said to them, 'I have seen many wonders tonight. What does all that mean whichI have seen?'

They replied, 'We will inform you:
As for the first man you came upon whose head was being injured with the rock, he is the symbol of the one who studies the Quran and then neither recites it nor acts on its orders, and sleeps, neglecting the enjoined prayers.
As for the man you came upon whose sides of mouth, nostrils and eyes were torn off from front to back, he is the symbol of the man who goes out of his house in the morning and tells so many lies that it spreads all over the world.
And those naked men and women whom you saw in a construction resembling an oven, they are the adulterers and the adulteresses;
and the man whom you saw swimming in the river and given a stone to swallow, is the eater of usury (RIBA).
and the bad looking man whom you saw near the fire kindling it and going round it, is Malik, the gatekeeper of Hell.
And the tall man whom you saw in the garden, is Abraham and the children around him are those children who die with Al-Fitra (the Islamic Faith)."
The narrator added: Some Muslims asked the Prophet, "O Allah's Apostle! What about the childrenof pagans?"
The Prophet replied, "And also the children of pagans."

The Prophet added:
"My two companions added, 'The men you saw half handsome and half ugly were those persons who had mixed an act that was good with another that was bad, but Allah forgave them.'"*

http://www.islamicity.org/Quransearc...ith_textS=riba

Sahih International:
And indeed, Jesus will be [a sign for] knowledge of the Hour, so be not in doubt of it, and follow Me. This is a straight path.
Pickthall:
And lo! verily there is knowledge of the Hour. So doubt ye not concerning it, but follow Me. This is the right path.
Yusuf Ali:
And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.
Shakir:
And most surely it is a knowledge of the hour, therefore have no doubt about it and follow me: this is the right path.

Quran 43:61

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmAshG9VVJI

And there is a Hadith, although it might not be very strong, RasoolAllah sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam says:

*فَارِسُ نَطْحَةٌ أَوْ نَطْحَتَانِ، ثُمَّ لَا فَارِسَ بَعْدَ الرُّومِ ذَاتُ الْقُرُونِ، كُلَّمَا ذَهَبَ قَرْنٌ خَلَفَهُمْ قَرْنٌ مَكَانَهُ*

RasoolAllah sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said with the Persian Empire, it will be two knocks.
Nathah means when a ram with horns hits something, or bumps something with its head, that is called Nathah.
RasoolAllah sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said with the Persian Empire, you would bump it twice and it would be over with.
But with the Romans:*ذَاتُ الْقُرُونِ*They have many horns.
Whenever one horn is broken, another horn would come up;
And that has been the case.

With the Persian Empire, it was two major battles and it was over. The first battle was al-Qaadisiyyah and the second battle was Nahawand, and that was over with, the Persian Empire fell down.
But with the Roman Empire, we find that it has been an endless series of conflicts. The Muslims fought with the Roman Empire throughout the time of the Khulafaa’ ar-Raashidoon. It started in the time of RasoolAllah sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam in the Battle of Tabuk, and Mu’tah was with the Roman Empire. Then in the time of Abu Bakr, he sent Usaamah bin Zayd against the Roman Empire, and then Umar ibn al-Khattab fought with them and then Uthman, and then in the time of Mu’aawiyah again. And it continued throughout the period of al-Khilafaa’*Al-Amawiyyah*and then in the time of al-Abbaassieen. The Eastern Roman Empire, the Byzantine Roman Empire only fell down at the hand of Muhammad al-Faatih but then the Western Roman Empire came up and started fighting against the Ottoman Empire. Centuries of existence, it was fighting with the Roman Empire and then the occupation of the Muslim lands was done through the European states, Britain, France and Italy.
Therefore, it has been a long series, whenever one horn is broken another horn would come up.

From The Minor Signs of the Day of Judgement 39-48 by Imam Anwar Al Awlaki (may Allah have mercy upon him).

https://m.facebook.com/notes/sirat-a...51279671201408
recall when it was that the pagan romans attacked the holy land, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea_(Roman_province)
and who was teleported onto the scene shortly thereafter, consider if the Roman governmental system with senate etc has been transfered and erected in a new land, consider the dates of the world wars, the chaos and bloodshed that became rampant thereafter, also consider who it is that meets gog and magog, how many horns does he have?

btw, anyone eva hearda Process Church?

On the day when We gather them all together,
then We say unto those who ascribed partners (unto Us): Stand back, ye and your (pretended) partners (of Allah)!
And We separate them, the one from the other, and their (pretended) partners say: It was not us ye worshipped.

Quran 10:28

Reply

Abz2000
10-14-2015, 11:35 AM
I found a dam which fits some characteristics, though not all:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.p.../Marib_dam.jpg

The Great Dam of Ma'rib


Recent*archaeological*findings suggest that simple*earth dams*and a*canal*network were constructed as far back as 2000 BCE.
The Great Dam of Ma'rib certainly dates back to about the 8th century BCE and is considered the oldest known dam in the world, being counted as one of the most wonderful feats of engineering in the ancient world.

The medieval Arab geographer*Yāqūt al-Ḥamawī*describes it thus:

It is between three mountains,
and the flood waters all flow to the one location,
and because of that the water only discharges in one direction;
and the ancients blocked that place with hard rocks and lead.
The water from springs gathers there as well as floodwater, collecting behind the dam like a sea.
Whenever they wanted to they could irrigate their crops from it, by just letting out however much water they needed from sluice gates;
once they had used enough they would close the gates again as they pleased.



The historical dam was severely damaged by a*Saudi airstrike*in the night of May 31, 2015.

Construction

The date of the first construction of the Dam at Ma’rib goes back to somewhere between 1750 and 1700 BCE.
The earliest inscription on the dam is one placed there at the time of its construction or repair of parts of the dam undertaken by Yithˁamar bin Samˁalī Yanūf, and the period of his reign is uncertain.
The following repair was in the time of Yada 'Il Bayyin who reigned in 780-750 BCE.
Renovations were then carried out by Dhamāḥ ‘Alī Dharāḥ, who reigned in 730-720 BCE.
Then Karab’il Bayyin, son of Yathˁimar, who reigned from 720-710 BCE.
All of these repairs were slight ones, essential maintenance, such as removing dirt, or opening water courses, or stopping up gaps. The*Makrib*Ali Yanouf Bin Dhamar Ali*(c. 790 BCE) had his name carved into parts of the dam to mark the completion and repair of the dam.....

....After the end of the Kingdom of Saba', the dam fell under the control of the*Ḥimyarites*in around 115 BCE.
They undertook a further reconstruction, creating a structure 14 meters high with extensive waterworks at both the northern and southern ends, with five spillway channels, two*masonry-reinforced*sluices, a*settling pond, and a 1000-meter canal to a distribution*tank.
These extensive works were not actually finalized until 325 AD and allowed the*irrigation*of 25,000 acres (100*km²).

Ancient South Arabian sources report that in about 145 BCE, the dam suffered a major breach during the war between the people of Raydān and the Kingdom of Saba’, and that is the very breach that many scholars consider to have caused the great flood of ˁArim mentioned in the Quran;
it is also mentioned in Arab proverbs which speak about the*hands of Saba'*having separated at that time.
The fighting between the Raydānites and the Sabaeans delayed the repair of the dam, and this caused devastating losses of crops and fruit, leading large numbers of people to disperse in search of new land capable of supporting life, so huge migrations ensued. It is still uncertain though whether it was that particular breach that caused the ‘flood of ˁArim’ or not, since some migrations certainly took place in the 2nd or 3rd centuries CE, and they are also ascribed to the breaking of the Dam of Ma’rib.
Generally speaking the dam was repaired twice shortly before the coming of Islam, once by Sharḥabīl Yaˁfar bin Abī Karab Yasˁad in 450 CE, and by*Abrahah in 543 CE,[7]*and the inscriptions on the dam explain the costs of repair and the large number of workers involved.

Final breach

Local tales report that the final breach of the dam had been predicted by a king called ‘Imrān, who was also a*soothsayer, and later by the wife of the king of the area.
In legend the breach was caused by large rats gnawing at it with their teeth and scratching it with their nails.

In 570 or 575, the dam was again overtopped, and this time left unrepaired.
The breaching and destruction of the Dam of Ma’rib was a historical event, and was alluded to in the Quran:

لَقَدْ كَانَ لِسَبَإٍ فِي مَسْكَنِهِمْ آيَةٌ ۖ جَنَّتَانِ عَن يَمِينٍ وَشِمَالٍ ۖ كُلُوا مِن رِّزْقِ رَبِّكُمْ وَاشْكُرُوا لَهُ ۚ بَلْدَةٌ طَيِّبَةٌ وَرَبٌّ غَفُورٌ، فَأَعْرَضُوا فَأَرْسَلْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ سَيْلَ الْعَرِمِ وَبَدَّلْنَاهُم بِجَنَّتَيْهِمْ جَنَّتَيْنِ ذَوَاتَيْ أُكُلٍ خَمْطٍ وَأَثْلٍ وَشَيْءٍ مِّن سِدْرٍ قَلِيلٍ"

There was for [the tribe of] Saba' in their dwelling place a sign: two [fields of] gardens on the right and on the left.
[They were told], "Eat from the provisions of your Lord and be grateful to Him. A good land [have you], and a forgiving Lord. But they turned away [refusing],
so We sent upon them the flood of the dam, and We replaced their two [fields of] gardens with gardens of bitter fruit,*tamarisks*and something of sparse*lote trees."


The consequent failure of the irrigation system provoked the migration of up to 50,000 people from Yemen to other areas of the Arabian Peninsula, and even to Syria and Iraq.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marib_Dam


83.*They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnain. Say, "I will rehearse to you something of his story."
84.*Verily We established his power on earth, and We gave him the ways and the means to all ends.
85.*One (such) way he followed,
86.*Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."
87.*He said: "Whoever doth wrong, him shall we punish; then shall he be sent back to his Lord; and He will punish him with a punishment unheard-of (before).
88.*"But whoever believes, and works righteousness,- he shall have a goodly reward, and easy will be his task as We order it by our Command."
89.*Then followed he (another) way,
90.*Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun.
91.*(He left them) as they were: We completely understood what was before him.
92.*Then followed he (another) way,
93.*Until, when he reached (a tract) between two mountains, he found, beneath them, a people who scarcely understood a word.
94.*They said: "O Zul-qarnain! the Gog and Magog (People) do great mischief on earth: shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them?

95.*He said: "(The power) in which my Lord has established me is better (than tribute):
Help me therefore with strength (and labour): I will erect a strong barrier between you and them:

96.*"Bring me blocks of iron." At length, when he had filled up the space between the two steep mountain-sides, He said, "Blow (with your bellows)" Then, when he had made it (red) as fire, he said: "Bring me, that I may pour over it, molten lead."

97.*Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it.

98.*He said: "This is a mercy from my Lord: But when the promise of my Lord comes to pass, He will make it into dust; and the promise of my Lord is true."

99.*On that day We shall leave them to surge like waves on one another: the trumpet will be blown, and We shall collect them all together.

100.*And We shall present Hell that day for Unbelievers to see, all spread out,

101.*(Unbelievers) whose eyes had been under a veil from remembrance of Me, and who had been unable even to hear.
102.*Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment.
103.*Say: "Shall we tell you of those who lose most in respect of their deeds?
104.*"Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works?"
105.*They are those who deny the Signs of their Lord and the fact of their having to meet Him (in the Hereafter): vain will be their works, nor shall We, on the Day of Judgment, give them any weight.
106.*That is their reward, Hell, because they rejected Faith, and took My Signs and My Messengers by way of jest.
107.*As to those who believe and work righteous deeds, they have, for their entertainment, the Gardens of Paradise,
108.*Wherein they shall dwell (for aye): no change will they wish for from them.109.*Say: "If the ocean were ink (wherewith to write out) the words of my Lord, sooner would the ocean be exhausted than would the words of my Lord, even if we added another ocean like it, for its aid."
110.*Say: "I am but a man like yourselves, (but) the inspiration has come to me, that your Allah is one Allah. whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner.

From Quran Chapter 18


The Seals

1I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!”*
2I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

3When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!”*
4Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword.

5When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.*
6Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two poundsa*of wheat for a day’s wages,b*and six poundscof barley for a day’s wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!”

7When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!”
8I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
10They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”*
11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

12I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,
13and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.
14The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
15Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.*
16They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide usf*from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!*
17For the great day of theirg*wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

Revelation 6





When commerce and roads are blocked and trials increase, seven knowledgeable people will come from different directions without previous appointment. Each will receive the allegiance of over three hundred men until they meet in Mecca. The seven will meet and asked one another; 'What brought you here?' They will reply: 'In Search of the man upon whose hand the trials will be calmed, and for whom Constantinople will be opened. We know him by his name, his father's name, his mother's name, and his army.'
So the seven will agree upon this and search for him then find him in Mecca. So they will ask him: 'Are you so and so, son of so and so?' He will reply: 'No, I am a man from the supporters.' And escape from them, so they will describe him to people in their midst that are both righteous and knowledgeable and it will be said to them: 'The one whom you seek was in your company, and he will go to Medina.'
So they will search for him in Medina but at that time he will be in Mecca. So they will search for him in Mecca and say to him: 'You are so and so, son of so and so, and your mother is so and so, daughter of so and so, and in you are the signs of such and such, and such and such. You escaped from us once so stretch out your hands and we will pledge our allegiance to you.' So he will say: 'I am not your companion.'
Then he will escape from them so they will search for him in Medina when he has returned to Mecca, then they will find him in Mecca beside Al Rukn and say to him: 'Our sins will be upon you and our blood upon your neck if you do not stretch out your hand so that we may pledge our allegiance! The army of the Sufyaani is coming demanding us in which there is a man from Jurm.
So he will sit between Al Rukn and Al Makam and stretch out his hand and allegiance will be pledged to him. So, Allah will sow love of him in the chests of the people and he will lead a nation that are lions during the day and worshippers at night.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...psekpet9ri.jpg
Reply

saman
03-31-2016, 06:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
Very true. However I also want to point out that the term "Dhul Qarnayn" most likely refers to the fact that he reached the earths most westerly and easterly points during his travels - the horn of the west and the horn of the east. Let's contextualize the term.

The Jews tested the Prophet pbuh with the question "Tell us about the young man who travelled a great distance"

Within this understanding, we can safely assume that the Jews the term "Dhul Qarnayn" and so, when the ayaat (no.83) starts with "And they ask thee (O Muhmammad) about Dhul Qarnayn, say to them I shall recite to you a remembrance about him"

The ayaat then go on to confirm that this man travelled a great distance to the west in order to spread Islamic Monotheism, and in doing so reaches the furthest west where he finds the sun to appear setting in the sea... the ayaat then go on to confirm that he travels east in order to spread Islamic Monotheism and reaches the furthest East where the sun appears to rise from... along the way Allah mentions some landmarks, in order to show us the great distance that Dhul Qarnayn had travelled.

The terms "Dhul Qarnayn" was known by the Jews, thus they did not argue or contest the Ayaat regarding him.

How did the Jews know about this? Easy... look in their holy texts. Daniels prophecy, in Isaiah... in fact he is mentioned 23 times buy name and alluded to several times more - further, non biblical accounts from historians such as Herodotus and Josephus (who were also Jews btw) give away much as to the term "Dhul Qarnayn"... in fact, in Herodotus' Histories, book 1 volum 1 - the very first story mentioned is the story of Cyrus...

...Cyrus was hailed as a Messiah to the Jews, even though Cyrus himself was not a Jew but a mixed race child of a Persian mother and Mede father...

in fact, one thing you will notice with Cyrus, is that however you try to fit the term "dhul qarnayn" to him, it always works - but not with Alexander, or the Tubba Kings, or anyone else for that matter.

At first, when I was discussing this with bro Ministry of Truth in WUP, and on skype, we both agreed that personally we didn't want Dhul Qarnayn to be Cyrus because we just didn't like Cyrus for some reason lol... the more I investigated, the more I became convinced that Cyrus was indeed the DHul Qarnayn of the Quran.

And Allah knows best

Scimi
Salam brother, I Tried to Send u a Private message But i Don't had promotion for That. First i have to thank you And Every Brothers and Sister for all the Effort u going through and Try to Shed Some lights for Us. And a Beautiful Quote i Gift to you Brother And All Muslims Who spend their time To share Theirs Knowledge With Us. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “One who treads a path in search of knowledge has his path to Paradise made easy by God…” - Riyadh us-Saleheen, 245
But i Saw u Done a little Mistake here,And I see this as My responsibility to Let u Know about it,
You Said: "...Cyrus was hailed as a Messiah to the Jews, even though Cyrus himself was not a Jew but a mixed race child of a Persian mother and Mede father..."
But it's Vice Versa,His Mother was a Median Princess (Mandane of Media)
And His Father Was a Persian
(Cambyses)
You Also Said:"we didn't want Dhul Qarnayn to be Cyrus because we just didn't like Cyrus for some reason lol... " Can i ask You Why u Did Not Like Cyrus and Don't want he be the Dhul Qarnayn?

i Will wait and happy to get your respond.
Allah bless You.
Reply

Scimitar
03-31-2016, 09:01 PM
Ah thank you brother Saman and welcome to IB forum.

For more info on this topic, you may want to read this: http://wup-forum.com/in-search-of-go...og-t25494.html

and more threads here: http://wup-forum.com/gog-and-magog-f126.html

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
03-31-2016, 10:01 PM
I neglected to mention that the best evidence I could find for the origin of the reference regarding Dhul Qarnayn being the contemporary of Ibraheem (pbuh) was this little comparative on the timeline of Zoroaster... an unlikely candidate, sure - but read on.


format_quote Originally Posted by Iran Chamber
astrologers such as Birjandi and Bahmanyar, the students of Ibn Sina, and supported by well known contemporary professor Zabih Behrooz, maintained that Zoroaster was born in the year 1768 B.C. i.e. 47 years after the birth of Abraham. It was not right for Behrooz, the celebrated scholar, to side with these students of Ibn Sina. Because when this verdict arrived at the West it gave them a license to establish a giant cultural foundation. By relying on that verdict this foundation declared that Zoroaster was one of the students of Prophet Abraham and that Zoroastrian religion was a branch of Jewish monotheism religion.

Chutny

Not very convincing.

Given the following as an extra cherry placed on the already tasty cake which is the Cyrus theory. We have this:

format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
This hadeeth is a lesser known one on the topic of Dhul Qarnayn,
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar


Narrated by Buraydah:


I heard the Messenger of Allah say: “O Buraydah! There will be many armies after I pass away. You should join the army that goes towards Khurasan. Then you should stop at the city of ‘Merv’ for it was built by ‘Dhul-Qarnayn’ and he prayed for blessings in it and therefore no harm will affect the dwellers of that city.”


(Al-Tabarani, Al-Mu'jam Al-Awsat)



From the historical record, it is said that Cyrus built the city of Merv...


The first city of Merv was founded in the 6th century BC as part of the expansion into the region by the Achaemenid Empire of Cyrus the Great (559–530 BC), but the Achaemenid levels are deeply covered by later strata at the site.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merv#History



Very intriguing information, giving us another clue which ties Cyrus with the personage of Dhul Qarnayn.


Allahu Alam.


Scimi
;)

Has anyone read Xenophon? or Herodotus' Histories? I believe these contain the real meaning to the term Dhul Qarnayn - literally - the twice crowned... Cyrus, was in fact - crowned twice, the first crowning being quite the controversial one but lesser known... in fact - almost unknown. Herodotus and Xenophon have the beans on that if anyone wants to take a look - hit me a PM in sha Allah.

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
03-31-2016, 11:07 PM
Regarding the Tubba Dynasty of Southern Arabia, and the theory that Dhul Qanrayn was a Tubba king - the timelines are skewed. This according to my research, makes no sense for a Tubba to be the Dhul Qarnayn.



We do not build houses on sand.

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
03-31-2016, 11:26 PM
In Arabic translations of the Old Testament, the word "Dhul-Qarnayn"(Hebrew: Ba`al Haqqərānayim בעל הקרנים)appears once in the Old Testament, in the Book of Daniel 8:20:


[9]أَمَّا الْكَبْشُ الَّذِيرَأَيْتَهُ ذَاالْقَرْنَيْنِ فَهُوَمُلُوكُ مَادِي وَفَارِسَ


Translation: The ram that you saw, the one with the two horns, represents the kings of Media and Persia.

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
07-04-2016, 02:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
In Arabic translations of the Old Testament, the word "Dhul-Qarnayn"(Hebrew: Ba`al Haqqərānayim בעל הקרנים)appears once in the Old Testament, in the Book of Daniel 8:20:


[9]أَمَّا الْكَبْشُ الَّذِيرَأَيْتَهُ ذَاالْقَرْنَيْنِ فَهُوَمُلُوكُ مَادِي وَفَارِسَ


Translation: The ram that you saw, the one with the two horns, represents the kings of Media and Persia.

Scimi
SO... what does this verse mean ??? Kings of Media and Persia?

Did you know that Cyrus' :

mother was a Persian Princess? Her name was Mandane.
father was a Mede Prince? His name was Cambyses.

Cyrus had dual (Dhul) Royal (Qarnayn - Crowned) lineage... this is just one application to the term "Dhul Qarnayn".

You can find this information in the Histories of Herodotus, Volume 1 Book 1.

There are in total, 4 applications of the Term "Dhul Qarnayn" which apply specifically only to Cyrus and none other. I won't share the other three.

And Allah knows best

Scimi
Reply

Zamtsa
07-04-2016, 03:31 AM
Cyrus II : Al Nabi Al Dzulkarnain AS .
Reply

Scimitar
07-04-2016, 03:34 AM
He wasn't a Prophet - nor was he a messenger. But a righteous King and deliverer of the Children of Israel. He seeded the Second Temple Period.

Scimi
Reply

greenhill
07-04-2016, 04:53 PM
So, what would be the reason to 'plant' Alexander son of Phillip.of Macedonia, a pagan be taken as Dhulkarnain, again?

Why would the Israelites accept Alexander as Dhulkarnain when there was someone else and in this day and age, blatantly mislead and bury the truth? For what gain? To say that Allah condoned Alexander's exploits? And his 'official' history is not pretty.


:peace:
Reply

Scimitar
07-04-2016, 05:09 PM
The Jews do not refer to Alexander as two horned, it is Cyrus they refer to, as explained with proofs in this thread akhi. One such proof in in post number 166 :)

Alexander was actually the one horned from the prophecy of Daniel pbuh in the Old Testament.

Scimi
Reply

T L
07-04-2016, 06:25 PM
King Cyrus in the Old Testament


King Cyrus the Great (600 or 576 BC), the Persian Emperor, the 'King of the four corners of the world', and the Lord's “Anointed” (Isaiah 45:1) “Shepherd” (44:28).

This Messiah named in the Jewish Bible was known for his progression and expansion of human rights, his incredible influence and tremendous generalship. And under his reign, he formed an undeniable bridge between the East and the West, creating the largest empires the world had ever seen.

One hundred and fifty years before his birth, a prophecy which foretold his very role in the liberation of captive jews during the Babylonian exile, the great prophet of God, Isaiah, mentions him by name,

“This is what the Lord says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him” (Isaiah 45:1).

Thus, by Divine Will, “though you do not acknowledge me” (45:4), it was decreed; the indisputable journey his life will take, the means he would be given, and the status he will attain in order to fulfill this prophecy.


“The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will” (Proverbs 21:1)
Reply

T L
07-04-2016, 06:57 PM
Isaiah 45:1-7 New International Version (NIV)

45 “This is what the Lord says to his anointed,
to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of
to subdue nations before him
and to strip kings of their armor,
to open doors before him
so that gates will not be shut:
2 I will go before you
and will level the mountains[a];
I will break down gates of bronze
and cut through bars of iron.
3 I will give you hidden treasures,
riches stored in secret places,
so that you may know that I am the Lord,
the God of Israel, who summons you by name.
4 For the sake of Jacob my servant,
of Israel my chosen,
I summon you by name
and bestow on you a title of honor,
though you do not acknowledge me.
5 I am the Lord, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God.
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,
6 so that from the rising of the sun
to the place of its setting
people may know there is none besides me.
I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.


Verily, We established him in the earth, and We gave him the means of everything.

Surah Al Kahf : 84

Isaiah 44:28 New International Version (NIV)

28 who says of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd
and will accomplish all that I please;
he will say of Jerusalem, “Let it be rebuilt,”
and of the temple, “Let its foundations be laid.”’
Reply

T L
07-04-2016, 08:36 PM
Jeremiah 29:10-14New International Version (NIV)

10 This is what the Lord says: “When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my good promise to bring you back to this place. 11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back from captivity.[a] I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile.”


Ezra 1New International Version (NIV)


Cyrus Helps the Exiles to Return

1 In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the Lord spoken by Jeremiah, the Lord moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and also to put it in writing:

2 “This is what Cyrus king of Persia says:

“‘The Lord, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and he has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem in Judah. 3 Any of his people among you may go up to Jerusalem in Judah and build the temple of the Lord, the God of Israel, the God who is in Jerusalem, and may their God be with them. 4 And in any locality where survivors may now be living, the people are to provide them with silver and gold, with goods and livestock, and with freewill offerings for the temple of God in Jerusalem.’”


Prophet Ezra/Uzra lived at the same time of Nabuchadnezzar.
God removed his soul and caused him death for 100 years “ How will Allah ever revive this after death?” (2.259) out of curiousity. God sent an angel who created for him his heart and eyes so he could understand and see what was going on as God revived his body and breathed his soul into him. The angel asked him how long he was asleep for to which he replies only a day or just part of it perhaps! The angel says "you stayed sleeping for 100 years,” told him to look at his food and drink which were spoiled, and then told him to look at his donkey which was merely bones. Then the angel called the bones together by God's Leave, which were then clothed with flesh and muscles, the soul was then breathed into it and the donkey stood up. Upon waking he learns that the tyrant king had destroyed all the copies of the Torah and he was the only remaining soul who knew it.
Ezra was an israelite prophet who lived in the time period between David Solomon Zechariah and John (pbut).
God had revealed the Torah to him when noone was left to know. God commanded an angel to descend with a flame of light and put it inside Ezra so he rewrote the Torah letter by letter as it was first revealed.
This is why the Israelites claim that Ezra was the son of Allah. Israelites said that there was noone like Ezra among them who could have memorised the Torah.

“And the Jews said Uzair is the son of Allah” (9:30)


The Book of Ezra describes how he led a group of Judean Exiles living in Babylon back to their home city of Jerusalem where he is said to have reintroduced the Torah and enforced it's Laws. He also recounts the siege of Jerusalem and the destruction of Solomon's Temple.
Reply

Scimitar
07-06-2016, 07:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Atiiq 'Iisa
Na'am , that's true , no Al Nabi AS who does not receive Al Ilham and Al Wahy . Because He did not accept that while dreaming while sleeping actually .
DO you read Qur'an? Allah named the Prophets pbut and he named Dhul Qarnayn but didn't call him a prophet nor a messenger - same with Khidr - you have no idea what you talk about, shame really - you conjecture with no proof and only your opinion which is really sad,

Scimi
Reply

Zamtsa
07-13-2016, 07:20 AM
What I know is that He is not Shalahuddin Al Ayyubi RA .
Reply

A.I
07-13-2016, 02:35 PM
The Hadith mentioned that Yajuj and Majuj will use archery and bows. Makes sense why no one will able to stop them because technologies won't be around that time.

Do you know anything about technologies and weapons being reversed back to the medieval times?
Reply

T L
07-13-2016, 05:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by A.I
The Hadith mentioned that Yajuj and Majuj will use archery and bows. Makes sense why no one will able to stop them because technologies won't be around that time.

Do you know anything about technologies and weapons being reversed back to the medieval times?
You are referring to the following hadith:

Narrated by Imam Ahmed in his Musnad that the Prophet (S.A.W.S) said: “Verily, Gog and Magog dig through the dam every day, till they could see the sun rays (through it), and their leader would say: ‘Go back and you will finish it tomorrow.’ On the next day, they find it as strong as before. Till when their appointed term comes and Allah desires to send them against mankind, they dig it till they could see the sun rays (through it) and their leader says: ‘Go back and you will finish it tomorrow, if Allah wills!’ On the next day, they find it as they had left the day before and they dig through it and come against mankind. They will drink (every drop of water they pass by). The people will resort to strongholds. And, Gog and Magog will throw their arrows towards the sky. When they come back to them stained with what looks like blood, they will say: ‘We have defeated the people on earth and those in the heaven as well.’ Then, Allah the Almighty will send against them worms in their necks that will kill them all. Allah’s Messenger (S.A.W.S) said: “By Him in Whose Hand Muhammed’s soul rests! Living creatures of the earth would go fat and be thankful due to eating their flesh and (drinking their) blood.” (Also transmitted by Imam Ahmed on the authority of Hasan Ibn Musa after Sufyan after Qatadah and by At-Tirmidhi on the authority of Abu, Awanah after Qatadah.)

This hadith is weak and contradicts the Qur'an. For God says in ayah 97 of Al Kahf
"Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it", if they were made powerless to scale or dig through it, how are they able to keep digging at it everyday? It doesn't make sense.

And God carries on to say in ayah 98
"He said: "This is a mercy from my Lord: But when the promise of my Lord comes to pass, He will make it into dust; and the promise of my Lord is true.""

Umm Habeebah bint Abi Sufyaan reported from Zaynab bint Jahsh (may Allaah be pleased with them) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) entered upon her in an agitated state and said, “Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah, woe to the Arabs from an evil that has approached! Today a hole like this has been opened in the barrier of Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj,” and he made a circle with his thumb and forefinger. Zaynab bint Jahsh said: “I said, ‘O Messenger of Allaah, will we be destroyed even though there are righteous people among us?’ He said, ‘Yes, if evil becomes overwhelming.’” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3097).

Which supports our understanding that the barrier came down during the prophet pbuh's time.

And Allah knows best
Reply

A.I
07-14-2016, 02:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by L V
You are referring to the following hadith:

Narrated by Imam Ahmed in his Musnad that the Prophet (S.A.W.S) said: “Verily, Gog and Magog dig through the dam every day, till they could see the sun rays (through it), and their leader would say: ‘Go back and you will finish it tomorrow.’ On the next day, they find it as strong as before. Till when their appointed term comes and Allah desires to send them against mankind, they dig it till they could see the sun rays (through it) and their leader says: ‘Go back and you will finish it tomorrow, if Allah wills!’ On the next day, they find it as they had left the day before and they dig through it and come against mankind. They will drink (every drop of water they pass by). The people will resort to strongholds. And, Gog and Magog will throw their arrows towards the sky. When they come back to them stained with what looks like blood, they will say: ‘We have defeated the people on earth and those in the heaven as well.’ Then, Allah the Almighty will send against them worms in their necks that will kill them all. Allah’s Messenger (S.A.W.S) said: “By Him in Whose Hand Muhammed’s soul rests! Living creatures of the earth would go fat and be thankful due to eating their flesh and (drinking their) blood.” (Also transmitted by Imam Ahmed on the authority of Hasan Ibn Musa after Sufyan after Qatadah and by At-Tirmidhi on the authority of Abu, Awanah after Qatadah.)

This hadith is weak and contradicts the Qur'an. For God says in ayah 97 of Al Kahf
"Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it", if they were made powerless to scale or dig through it, how are they able to keep digging at it everyday? It doesn't make sense.

And God carries on to say in ayah 98
"He said: "This is a mercy from my Lord: But when the promise of my Lord comes to pass, He will make it into dust; and the promise of my Lord is true.""

Umm Habeebah bint Abi Sufyaan reported from Zaynab bint Jahsh (may Allaah be pleased with them) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) entered upon her in an agitated state and said, “Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah, woe to the Arabs from an evil that has approached! Today a hole like this has been opened in the barrier of Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj,” and he made a circle with his thumb and forefinger. Zaynab bint Jahsh said: “I said, ‘O Messenger of Allaah, will we be destroyed even though there are righteous people among us?’ He said, ‘Yes, if evil becomes overwhelming.’” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3097).

Which supports our understanding that the barrier came down during the prophet pbuh's time.

And Allah knows best
But the barrier is still intact until the major signs occur - after Isa AS's arrival.

I was talking about the weapons used in the end times.

There are several hadith that describe Yajuj and Majuj turning their arrows to the sky to kill the people of the sky after they exclaimed they killed or defeated all the people of the earth. And that their arrows will return red with blood and they will say they killed or defeated the people of the sky.

سَيُوقِدُ الْمُسْلِمُونَ مِنْ قِسِيِّ يَأْجُوجَ وَمَأْجُوجَ وَنُشَّابِهِمْ وَأَتْرِسَتِهِمْ سَبْعَ سِنِينَ

“The Muslims will use the bows, arrows and shields of Gog and Magog as firewood, for seven years.”

Correct me if I'm wrong?
Reply

Scimitar
07-14-2016, 03:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by A.I
But the barrier is still intact until the major signs occur - after Isa AS's arrival.
What? where? coz I searched for years and guess what? with satellite imaging and the world being mapped throughly in modern times - there's no barrier made of iron and copper to be found... however, if you look to the accounts recorded in history you will find where it used to exist once.

Regarding the barrier: Sallam al Tarjumani and Huien Tsang both found it - Huien Tsang coming from the east moving west and Sallam coming from the west moving east. This happened a VERY LONG TIME AGO... again, read through the thread.

As for Isa Alaihis Salaam's arrival, that is referring to the final wave of Gog Magog, and this has been explained already in this thread. Read through it.

format_quote Originally Posted by A.I
I was talking about the weapons used in the end times.

There are several hadith that describe Yajuj and Majuj turning their arrows to the sky to kill the people of the sky after they exclaimed they killed or defeated all the people of the earth. And that their arrows will return red with blood and they will say they killed or defeated the people of the sky.

سَيُوقِدُ الْمُسْلِمُونَ مِنْ قِسِيِّ يَأْجُوجَ وَمَأْجُوجَ وَنُشَّابِهِمْ وَأَتْرِسَتِهِمْ سَبْعَ سِنِينَ

“The Muslims will use the bows, arrows and shields of Gog and Magog as firewood, for seven years.”

Correct me if I'm wrong?
We are in the end times now, they started in the period of the final prophet and messenger of God, Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam. He was the final Prophet and Messenger to the whole world, after which started the end time. Today, we are in the final hour:



There are many signs, which have occurred, and you are not doing your research properly - news for you - you're doing this wrong.

With regard to the arrows and bows and shields of Gog Magog - How does a 7th century man describe modern tech? Are you aware of the hadeeth which mentions dajjal travelling on a donkey whose ears are as wide as 70 cubits according to some narrations... and in others, this donkey will carry dajjal in the skies at the speed of clouds, and more - it's one step is the difference between day and night... for more info, check the references in the following books which mention these hadeeth: Musnad Ahmad, Kunzal Amaal, Baihaqi, Mishkat, Muslim, Tirmidhi.

Point I am trying to get through to you is the following - the white donkey sounds like an air plane. Yet such things as air planes didn't exist in the 7th century CE, and so, descriptive's were given in terms that could be understood by both, the people of his (prophet pbuh) time and those of our time... now let's go back to the arrows and shields and bows... rockets, missiles and nuclear tech??? What you need to understand here is that, these arrows, shields and bows are descriptive of future weapons which exist in our time - things we call, rifles, guns, rockets, missiles, etc...

...See, if you are waiting for a return to caveman times, then bro - KEEP WAITING.

And Allah knows best.

Scimi
Reply

Abz2000
08-05-2016, 03:05 AM
Also thought it useful to add, the term "atba'a" in "thumma ataba'a sababa" appears to be mudhari' (present future), my Arabic could be better and i hope somebody clarifies if i'm mistaken, but in such case, it would read: "then he follows another way".


Edit: here's where i found it after reading the story of Dhu al Qarnayn, but as i implied earlier, i am uncertain as my Arabic is patchy:

Reply

Asir
11-17-2016, 07:07 PM
this explanation is much more relevant and supportive.... thanks for more information... :)
Reply

A.I
12-05-2016, 01:04 AM
I haven't read the whole thread but did anyone mention what ethnicity does Yajuj Majuj come from? Most people I hear say they are one of the lost Mongol tribe or those descending from Central Asia (eg: Turkic group).
Reply

Scimitar
01-14-2017, 01:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by A.I
I haven't read the whole thread but did anyone mention what ethnicity does Yajuj Majuj come from? Most people I hear say they are one of the lost Mongol tribe or those descending from Central Asia (eg: Turkic group).
Read the thread.

Scimi
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anatolian
05-07-2017, 08:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by no.ye
Why don't you think that He might be Al Nabi Al Masiih Al 'Iisa AS ? .


As Salaam 'alaikum .
There is an account of him with the prophet Musa but the prophet Isa lived aprx 1400 years later
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anatolian
05-07-2017, 10:18 AM
I didnt read the thread wholly too so I dont know if it is mentioned before but there is also a beliefe within Turks that Zulqarnayn was Oghuz Khan/Kaghan the legendery leader and forefather of the Turks. The original ancient narrations of him are very similar with the Quranic account of Zulqarnayn

http://wikivisually.com/wiki/Oghuz_Khan
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Scimitar
06-03-2017, 03:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian
There is an account of him with the prophet Musa but the prophet Isa lived aprx 1400 years later
rubbish,

format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian
I didnt read the thread wholly too so I dont know if it is mentioned before but there is also a beliefe within Turks that Zulqarnayn was Oghuz Khan/Kaghan the legendery leader and forefather of the Turks. The original ancient narrations of him are very similar with the Quranic account of Zulqarnayn

http://wikivisually.com/wiki/Oghuz_Khan
even more nonsense,

format_quote Originally Posted by tony.jaa
Could He be someone who disguise or on undercover ?
No. He was known to the Children of Israel, in the 5th century BCE. Prophecy of Daniel about the Two Horned one refers to Cyrus - read this thread and you will see my posts - make your own mind up.

Accept loose Turkish nonsense or real research - your choice.

God bless,

Scimi
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anatolian
06-03-2017, 08:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
rubbish,
Yes I confused the story of Musa aleyhissalam with the wise man with the story of Zulqarnayn.



format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
even more nonsense,
This is just a beliefe. I dont claim that. Though, if you are interested in history it is worth of a look. In the story of oghuz kaghan we read that he was a monotheist and got some orders from God. He argued with his mother and father who were idolaters not to worship idols. And the commend from God was to establish the order in the world. He made campaigns to the four corners of the world to fulfill that

What else..its just worth of a read before calling it nonsense...



format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
No. He was known to the Children of Israel, in the 5th century BCE. Prophecy of Daniel about the Two Horned one refers to Cyrus - read this thread and you will see my posts - make your own mind up.

Accept loose Turkish nonsense or real research - your choice.

God bless,

Scimi
Was this directed at me or tony?
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Scimitar
06-03-2017, 01:27 PM
To anyone who is reading bro!!!

Scimi
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Abz2000
06-03-2017, 09:06 PM
Some people think it's literal horns, some- satan, some-a lamb or baby (mahd) ram that grows up, some-a man of two generations, some-God, some-son of God, some-a king, some-a decoy, some a bit of everything..... can't be certain unless Allah makes it clearly known.

.
..but for certain, I know it is a servant of Allah ('abdAllah") whose duty is to obey and please Allah to the best of his ability.
Still (back to conjecture) -a properly constructed lead and copper shield or box can't be scaled by aircraft or dug under like a wall on the ground - and sure keeps out external satellite and radio interference and mischief from dajjal - would be a cool underground cave (instead of a tin foil hat) that keeps the great one eyed seal worshippers -those of our people (humankind) who have taken for worship gods other than Allah so that they can be "helped", for which they haven't yet brought clear and convincing proof- from worshipping a false, angry, one eyed god which they have been trying to make and pi$$ off. Just hope they don't succeed in carving any of Allah's devotees into a one eyed impostor - al maseehi ad dajjal (annointed by the deceiver) with a crown of thorns in the flesh). It would be better if they chose Al maseehu Allah (annoited of God) (since most claim to believe in democracy) - but only minds endued with justice and wisdom can see the truth - unlike those who by their thoughts and deeds call God evil and call satan good. (Well, if they fire at the sky hoping to kill those in the heavens- i heard Allah helps them out since they believe it (hopefully He'll stop rotating the sun and moon and planets too since the majority don't believe He exists as He actually does. Eleven planets, the sun, the moon all prostrating for real this time).
- but He will still judge it all properly and completely after the game.


But then again - only the believers whether literate or illiterate can see and recognize the foolishness and trickery of kufr clearly and they are the ones who prostrate to Allah in dismay at the situation, and imaan is written on their foreheads as they cry to Allah for justice and mercy and for implementation of a system which rules justly by Allah's laws whilst sincerely seeking His good pleasure.

Whichever way it goes - the truth still wins through.
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Kashif Amin
01-22-2018, 01:35 PM
Check tafseer Marif Ul Quran Surah Kahf Ayat 81
https://islamicbookspdfblog.wordpres...2018/01/15/11/
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Kashif Amin
01-22-2018, 01:36 PM
the file may be upto 100 Mb
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Kashif Amin
01-22-2018, 01:36 PM
Also check Anwar Ul Bayan
Reply

Kashif Amin
01-22-2018, 01:40 PM
You can also check it at islamicstudies.info
Reply

Kashif Amin
01-22-2018, 01:44 PM
Anwar Bayan file is about 200 Mb
Reply

Ishaaq
01-23-2018, 08:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by A.I
I haven't read the whole thread but did anyone mention what ethnicity does Yajuj Majuj come from? Most people I hear say they are one of the lost Mongol tribe or those descending from Central Asia (eg: Turkic group).
Yes I believe that is correct
Reply

Kashif Amin
01-23-2018, 08:21 AM
In my view 1/22 of Yajuj Majuj have already come in 13th century under ghengis khan
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Kashif Amin
01-23-2018, 08:21 AM
The rest have been hidden
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Kashif Amin
01-23-2018, 08:22 AM
And will come at the time of Hazrat Iesa (AS)
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Kashif Amin
01-23-2018, 08:23 AM
And Allah knows the best
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Kashif Amin
01-23-2018, 08:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Kashif Amin
the file may be upto 100 Mb
The file Marif Ul Quran is of 240 Mb instead of 100 Mb (Mistake corrected)
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Ishaaq
01-23-2018, 08:33 AM
I subscribe to the view that Gog & Magog are the vast Turkic/Mongolic nations of Eurasia. The dam that was built by Dhul-Qarnain عليه السلام does not exist anymore.


عَنْ حُذَيْفَةَ بْنِ الْيَمَانِ ، قَالَ : سَأَلْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ عَنْ يَأْجُوجَ وَمَأْجُوجَ ؟ قَالَ : " يَأْجُوجُ أُمَّةٌ ، وَمَأْجُوجُ أُمَّةٌ ، كُلُّ أُمَّةٍ أَرْبَعُمِائَةِ أَلْفِ أُمَّةٍ

Hudaifah b. al-Yaman narrates: I asked Allah's Apostle (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam) about Yagog and Magog. He said: "Yagog is a nation and Magog is a nation, and each nation consists of 400,000 nations." (Mu'jam al-Awsat, Tabarani)

يَشْرَبُونَ أَنْهَارَ الْمَشْرِقِ ، وَبُحَيْرَةَ طَبَرِيَّةَ
"They will drink up the rivers of the East, and the Lake of Tiberias (Sea of Galilee)" (Ibid)
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klima
02-12-2021, 09:08 AM
Please tell the coordinates and give a HD pic! Please I want to know about it! May Allah make you see my reply!
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klima
02-12-2021, 09:35 AM
As far as I know, Nuh (alayhis salatuassalam) had 3 believing sons: Sam, Ham and Yafith. From Sam came the West Asians (including Caucasians but excluding Georgians,Armenians & Azeris), from Ham the Africans as well as the Dravirs of Southern India and from Yafith came the Altaics, Indo Europeans, East Asians, Amerindians, South East Asians and Oceanians (excluding here the English (who are also his descendants) and Australo Melanesian ones). But from the latter son Yafith, also came the Yajuj-Majuj and Tharis-Taqil. So Yajuj-Majuj are humans who were psionically made "mad-zombies". They were concealed with a wall by Dhul Qarnayn, a descendant of Sam.
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