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Ansariyah
06-30-2010, 10:47 PM
After killing the worlds tiniest spider in my room while trying to take it outside, I realised I squashed it in the tissue accidently. I couldnt helpt but feel so bad n all these feelings came over me, like I killed a life so harmless so innocent only cause I thought theres no way I can sleep ina room wit that spider in it, just creepy thinking it might eventually end up in my bed walking over my body etc. I know its mad!

As I pondered over my actions I started to wonder if it have a life, a soul? Could she see? n if she did did she see me in my real form or did she see a gigantic Humongous scary being? Do they have feelings,
such as happiness, loss, regret, fear etc?

Lots of Questions I kno...just wonderin

jzk
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Masuma
06-30-2010, 11:13 PM
Naaaa! I dunno sis! I myself kill many ants when they bite me or when they crawl somewhere near me. :( And I too don't feel it right! :-\
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cat eyes
06-30-2010, 11:27 PM
i hovered up a spider last week so i know how u feel lol he was trying to escape so i hovered him up :( but he was huge and i was terrified and by the looks of it he was terrified too. i felt terribly guilty over it.

but i heard that your meant to kill them because insects can cause you skin rashes and give u all sorts of problems to the human if you didn't get them out of your home. they can give you sickness. they are not as innocent as they sometimes look. spiders are hell scary i cant stand them with there 8hairy legs :phew

my dad thinks there great workers for getting the dirty flies out of the house but id rather have a fly in my home then a spider. i wont even sleep in a room with a spider in it. its good thing that they hide because id murder all of them :heated:
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CosmicPathos
06-30-2010, 11:48 PM
Well spider, like other insects, has eyes. Thousands of eyes. They can see us but their vision is not how our vision works. They see thousand different images with very low resolution. Probably it is also black and white.

Spiders might have instinctive behaviors like protecting its web etc but I do not think they have souls.

Do you know that you kill millions of bacteria every time you breath air in? Not to worry, I am sure there is no sin on us for breathing.
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Masuma
07-01-2010, 12:36 AM
i think some living things don't have soul...not sure of the source...maybe heard it some where. :-\

but whatever the reason, I think that unnecessary killing should be avoided...

And Allah knows best!
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marwen
07-01-2010, 12:45 AM
supposing we're sure they don't have souls, should we kill them for not having soul ?

Now about the soul :
What makes us think insects don't have soul ? have someone sources about that? I think there is a hadeeth about not drawing creatures having soul (humans, animals, ), does this hadeeth mention something about insects ?
Personally I see they are alive and moving, so probably they do have souls I think.
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CosmicPathos
07-01-2010, 12:50 AM
Originally Posted by marwen
supposing we're sure they don't have souls, should we kill them for not having soul ?

Now about the soul :
What makes us think insects don't have soul ? have someone sources about that? I think there is a hadeeth about not drawing creatures having soul (humans, animals, ), does this hadeeth mention something about insects ?
Personally I see they are alive and moving, so probably they do have souls I think.
Just because they are alive and moving it does not mean they have souls! There are MANY things which move and seem to be alive yet they are non-living things! Proteins! Proteins change conformation, they move up and down in picometers but they are non-living things!

Mreover, we have no definition of what is considered "life."

I do not think animals have souls. Only human beings. Soul is what makes us a human being. Otherwise we are just like animals, mechanically working flesh of chemicals.
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Masuma
07-01-2010, 12:52 AM
Originally Posted by marwen
supposing we're sure they don't have souls, should we kill them for not having soul ?

Now about the soul :
What makes us think insects don't have soul ? have someone sources about that? I think there is a hadeeth about not drawing creatures having soul (humans, animals, ), does this hadeeth mention something about insects ?
Personally I see they are alive and moving, so probably they do have souls I think.
yeah but some creatures don't have soul i guess. :-\

and what if the insects are all around ready to sting you any moment you turn your face away from them?!

But yeah we shouldn't kill them if it can be avoided and SHOULD be avoided! imsad
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marwen
07-01-2010, 01:03 AM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
Just because they are alive and moving it does not mean they have souls! There are MANY things which move and seem to be alive yet they are non-living things! Proteins! Proteins change conformation, they move up and down in picometers but they are non-living things!
Mreover, we have no definition of what is considered "life."
Yes, I agree with this. movement does not imply the existence of soul, That's why I said probably, but it could be a sign.

Originally Posted by mad_scientist
I do not think animals have souls. Only human beings. Soul is what makes us a human being. Otherwise we are just like animals, mechanically working flesh of chemicals.
We need a definition of what is soul, and what is his function. Obviously soul does not mean life. But it does not mean human too. Why should we think animals or insects don't have souls ? Allah knows best indeed.
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Masuma
07-01-2010, 01:08 AM
Originally Posted by marwen
Yes, I agree with this. movement does not imply the existence of soul, That's why I said probably, but it could be a sign.


We need a definition of what is soul, and what is his function. Obviously soul does not mean life. But it does not mean human too. Why should we think animals or insects don't have souls ? Allah knows best indeed.
Clearly!

I once asked Atheists on another forum about what they think of souls and it was at this time that i came to know of how little i knew about it.

It's not like a human body is some vessel that is filled up with soul...etc

The actual knowledge is with Allah. :statisfie
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CosmicPathos
07-01-2010, 01:13 AM
Originally Posted by marwen
Yes, I agree with this. movement does not imply the existence of soul, That's why I said probably, but it could be a sign.


We need a definition of what is soul, and what is his function. Obviously soul does not mean life. But it does not mean human too. Why should we think animals or insects don't have souls ? Allah knows best indeed.
soul means Roo7. I believe that Allah blew Roo7 only in Adam as.
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marwen
07-01-2010, 01:25 AM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
soul means Roo7. I believe that Allah blew Roo7 only in Adam as.
Yes true, that's mentioned in the quran and that shows humans have roo7 (soul). But the quran says also :
003.049
"And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by God's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
Can't this be understood as Roo7 being blown into a bird ? like Adam (as), it shows animals need a soul too. no ?
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Masuma
07-01-2010, 01:38 AM
Originally Posted by marwen
Yes true, that's mentioned in the quran and that shows humans have roo7 (soul). But the quran says also :
003.049
"And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by God's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
Can't this be understood as Roo7 being blown into a bird ? like Adam (as), it shows animals need a soul too. no ?
no but hazrat Esa breathing into a bird means he (a.s) breathed soul in it by Allah's leave? :-\

And what about plants? do they have souls?
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cat eyes
07-01-2010, 01:41 AM
Originally Posted by An33za
yeah but some creatures don't have soul i guess. :-\

and what if the insects are all around ready to sting you any moment you turn your face away from them?!

But yeah we shouldn't kill them if it can be avoided and SHOULD be avoided! imsad
lol sis i know how u feel i don't like killing insects either but they freak me out sometimes

I showed mercy to a spider before and allowed him to leave my bathroom peacefully but he took for ages to leave:mmokay: he was only little so i felt lot pity for him

i don't know whether they have souls or not but put it this way if i don't like spiders in the dunya i won't be to happy about seeing them when i die either :scared:
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Masuma
07-01-2010, 01:44 AM
its not directly related but Dr. Zakir explains about the concept of soul in Islam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh9J_ltgMXM
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Salahudeen
07-01-2010, 01:45 AM
I don't think they have souls because animals have been cloned and were living, like dolly the sheep. but they die after 3 months or something. But I think it would not work with a human cos you'd need a soul.
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marwen
07-01-2010, 01:45 AM
Originally Posted by An33za
no but hazrat Esa breathing into a bird means he (a.s) breathed soul in it by Allah's leave? :-\
Yes, you're correct sister.

Originally Posted by An33za
And what about plants? do they have souls?
I think not.
The report narrated by al-Bukhaari (5963) and Muslim (2110) from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him), who said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say, ‘Whoever makes an image in this world will be told to breathe life into it in the Day of Resurrection, and he will not be able to do so.’” The prohibition mentioned in this hadeeth has to do with animate objects. What confirms this interpretation is that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him), who was the narrator of this hadeeth, issued a fatwa permitting the drawing of trees and inanimate objects, as was narrated in Saheeh al-Bukhaari (2225) and Saheeh Muslim (2110) from Sa’eed ibn Abi’l-Hasan, who said: “I was with Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) when a man came to him and said, ‘O Ibn ‘Abbaas, I am a man who earns a living by the work of my hands, and I make these pictures (or images).’ Ibn ‘Abbaas said: ‘I will only tell you what I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say, and I heard him say, “Whoever makes an image in this world will be punished until he breathes life into it, and he will never be able to do so.’’ The man became very upset and his face turned pale. He – meaning Ibn ‘Abbaas – said, ‘Woe to you! If you insist on making them (images), then you can make images of these trees and everything that does not have a soul.’”
source ..
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Masuma
07-01-2010, 01:50 AM
Originally Posted by marwen
I think not.
He – meaning Ibn ‘Abbaas – said, ‘Woe to you! If you insist on making them (images), then you can make images of these trees and everything that does not have a soul.’”
source ..
but we should first confirm. what if Prophet was not including trees in the category of soul-less creatures? :(
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Masuma
07-01-2010, 01:55 AM
Originally Posted by marwen
Yes, you're correct sister.


I think not.

source ..
I think Dr. Zakir Naik's saying that only humans have soul? Right? :-\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh9J_ltgMXM
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marwen
07-01-2010, 01:57 AM
Originally Posted by An33za
but we should first confirm. what if Prophet was not including trees in the category of soul-less creatures? :(
Yes, true, that's Ibnu Abbas's interpretation. But you know who is Ibnu Abbas (ra) ! he's one of the most reliable sahabas, and Allah gave him a great understanding of deen. I don't say he can't be wrong, but he can see things that we don't see.
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Masuma
07-01-2010, 02:02 AM
Originally Posted by marwen
Yes, true, that's Ibnu Abbas's interpretation. But you know who is Ibnu Abbas (ra) ! he's one of the most reliable sahabas, and Allah gave him a great understanding of deen. I don't say he can't be wrong, but he can see things that we don't see.
no no! Asataghfirullah i didn't mean that! what i was saying is that Prophet didn't emphasize here that trees don't have soul. What if he meant that trees do have soul but you can still draw images... but I don't know anything about it.

Allah knows best! :statisfie
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marwen
07-01-2010, 02:08 AM
Originally Posted by An33za
no no! Asataghfirullah i didn't mean that! what i was saying is that Prophet didn't emphasize here that trees don't have soul. What if he meant that trees do have soul but you can still draw images... but I don't know anything about it.
Yes sister you're right. It can be not about soul, but about animated things. I didn't think about that. Jazaki Allahu Khayran.

Unfortunately, the video doesn't work on my pc (I think I have a bad internet connection now).

I think Dr. Zakir Naik's saying that only humans have soul? Right?
If he says so, then I must be wrong. Dr. Zakir is more qualified to talk about this. I just put my opinion, and probably I'm wrong.
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Masuma
07-01-2010, 02:14 AM
Originally Posted by marwen
Yes sister you're right. It can be not about soul, but about animated things, or things which are alive. I didn't think about that. Jazaki Allahu Khayran.
wa iyaaka! :statisfie


Originally Posted by marwen
If he says so, then I must be wrong. Dr. Zakir is more qualified to talk about this. I just put my opinion, and probably I'm wrong.
dunno whether he said it clearly or not... :( so if you see it later, and find something different, then please do correct me. :)


now gotta sleep!

heheehe!

Allahafiz!
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CosmicPathos
07-01-2010, 03:50 AM
Originally Posted by An33za
wa iyaaka! :statisfie



dunno whether he said it clearly or not... :( so if you see it later, and find something different, then please do correct me. :)


now gotta sleep!

heheehe!

Allahafiz!
Yea I am kinda shocked how you are still awake. isnt it like 8 am in Lahore? :p
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marwen
07-01-2010, 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by An33za
I think Dr. Zakir Naik's saying that only humans have soul? Right? :-\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh9J_ltgMXM
Yes, that's what I understood from the video too. I think Dr. Zakir Naik's point was : if a human dies, his soul is not dead and will be preserved until he is resurrected, but for animals, it's not the case: animals just stop living, no animal soul existing by itself.
JUST REPORTING. Hope I understood what he says correctly.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
07-01-2010, 07:07 PM
Aslaamu`Alaaykum . .

Whether an animal has a soul or not they still innocent, they do what theyre created to do, but as adviced if they are dangerous towards you then you may kill em, but i dont think house spiders are dangerous, lol uno i read somewhere that a human eats atleast 8 spiders in their life time when their sleeping but i donoo

I usually pick em up put em outside :-\ and yeah it is scary, but if it saves its innocent lil life then do so.
I also read a story that someone killed a bird for no reason, and that bird will cry and ask Allaah to ask that person who killed it to why it killed it as the bird did nothing wrong! I think this goes for lil innocent spiders also as they just mind their own business and its u thats scared and also them

But yeah next time PLEASE EVERYONE pick it up and place it OUTSIDE!!!!!!!!!!! :-\


Wa Alaaykum Salaam
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Masuma
07-01-2010, 11:53 PM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
Yea I am kinda shocked how you are still awake. isnt it like 8 am in Lahore? :p
Yeah it was! :p GMT+5. ;D
...but has to remain awake the whole night for fajr you see...:(


Originally Posted by marwen
Yes, that's what I understood from the video too. I think Dr. Zakir Naik's point was : if a human dies, his soul is not dead and will be preserved until he is resurrected, but for animals, it's not the case: animals just stop living, no animal soul existing by itself.
JUST REPORTING. Hope I understood what he says correctly.
So I'll stick to what Dr. Zakir says as long as I don't find any strong proofs against it. :)
(But people can make their own choices, that's what really makes us different and unique!) :statisfie


Originally Posted by мυѕℓιмαн 4 ℓιfє
Aslaamu`Alaaykum . .

Whether an animal has a soul or not they still innocent, they do what theyre created to do, but as adviced if they are dangerous towards you then you may kill em, but i dont think house spiders are dangerous, lol uno i read somewhere that a human eats atleast 8 spiders in their life time when their sleeping but i donoo
:uuh:


Originally Posted by мυѕℓιмαн 4 ℓιfє
But yeah next time PLEASE EVERYONE pick it up and place it OUTSIDE!!!!!!!!!!! :-\
Wa Alaaykum Salaam
dun have this prob. Spiders don't scare me! :D
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
07-02-2010, 06:21 PM
^Yeah sure!:-\
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Masuma
07-03-2010, 12:09 AM
Originally Posted by marwen
Yes, that's what I understood from the video too. I think Dr. Zakir Naik's point was : if a human dies, his soul is not dead and will be preserved until he is resurrected, but for animals, it's not the case: animals just stop living, no animal soul existing by itself.
JUST REPORTING. Hope I understood what he says correctly.
OOOKay!:happy: Now I got it. So that means that "plants" are still not included in the above?
We still don't know whether they have souls or not?

And how incomprehensible all of this is..."animals just stop existing!"

Thankx God its not the case with humans otherwise it would have been terrible! :cry:

I think it has to do with all these memories and past experience and the lessons that we learn form there that we don't have the same fate; that we don't stop existing! :statisfie

But you know, Atheists have contradictory beliefs to this. :( They do accept that people simply stop existing when they die! How hopeless! :(
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Rhubarb Tart
07-03-2010, 12:38 AM
The women who treated her cat badly went to hell....doesn't the moral of that story also applies to spiders, ants etc...

Treat them kind, they are harmless esp. tiny spiders in the uk...

I don’t get why people get frightened of such tiny creatures, I love spiders, ants and all.
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