Muslims pay tribute to UK's armed forces.

[Jedi]

What do you think about this?

Muslims pay tribute to UK's armed forces.

Page last updated at 16:44 GMT, Saturday, 3 July 2010 17:44 UK

Muslim women lay wreaths at the National Memorial Arboretum

A group of Muslim women have laid a wreath at the National Memorial Arboretum in honour of those who died fighting for the UK.
L/Cpl Jabron Hashmi, 24, from Birmingham, was the first British Muslim soldier to die in a Taliban attack in Afghanistan, in July 2006.
On the anniversary weekend of his death the women paid their respects at the Staffordshire centre.
The ceremony was organised by the Muslim Armed Forces Association.
L/Cpl Hashmi died in a Taliban attack on his base in Helmand It said 500 Muslims were currently serving in the British armed forces.
Kalsoom Bashir, who attended the ceremony said: "We are here for two reasons, to say that as mothers we share the grief of those that have lost their loved ones and we salute the loyalty of those men and women that have laid down their lives for our country.
"Secondly we are here to say loud and clear to those extremists that would exploit that grief, you're not one of us, you don't represent us."
A group of Muslims protested against the presence of British troops in Afghanistan when the Second Battalion Royal Anglian Regiment took part in a homecoming parade through Luton in March 2009.
Mrs Bashir said the behaviour of that sector of the Muslim community had "shocked" and "outraged" her.
I do not want wider society to be afraid of me as a Muslim woman.
Wreath layer Kalsoom Bashir
She said: "They were exploiting a very sensitive time. It was a time to show compassion. They were in contradiction of the principles of the faith that they claim to represent, it is not the religion I know and recognise."
Mr Hashmi's brother Zeehan, 31, said his mother had also joined the memorial ceremony.
Zeehan said he thought it was positive for Muslims to show their support for the British armed forces.

[Jedi]

25 views, no comments?

[aadil77]

I think its disgusting, they might as well go and spit on the graves of the many dead muslims in afghanistan killed for absolutely no reason. They're all sellouts and bootlickers (including the imam), they're a disgrace to the majority of muslims who know where the loyalties belong. They've sold their faith just to get some approval from non-muslims.

[S<Chowdhury]

I think its disgusting, they might as well go and spit on the graves of the many dead muslims in afghanistan killed for absolutely no reason. They're all sellouts and bootlickers (including the imam), they're a disgrace to the majority of muslims who know where the loyalties belong. They've sold their faith just to get some approval from non-muslims.

^^ Surprise Surprise haha Bro i didnt expect anything less

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[Rhubarb Tart]

I think they are just as disgraceful as those muslims that were at homecoming parade. No differences, in my opinion.

What about those non Muslims that also disagree with the phony wars? They are too extremists?

You only have to be a Muslim and disagree with the wars to become extremists. I don’t see why Muslims have to stoop that low to “prove” that they are not extremists.

[Rhubarb Tart]

But wait I just read it probably, these are not just any odd Muslims; they are mothers or female relatives of Muslim solider that died in the war. Of course that doesn’t excuse the fact the wars has killed innocent Muslims and serve no purpose. They shouldn’t be kissing the armed forces backside even if they were grieving for their sons.


Also we just feed a troll. No more replies from me.

[Trumble]

What about those non Muslims that also disagree with the phony wars? They are too extremists?

There is a distinction between 'supporting' a war, and supporting and acknowledging the courage and sacrifice of the troops who are sent to fight it. All wars result in the innocent being killed, it makes no difference whether they are 'justified' or not. Nor does their religion - nor that of the killers - make any difference either. In Afghanistan far more muslims have been killed BY muslims than by anybody else.

[Rhubarb Tart]

There is a distinction between 'supporting' a war, and supporting and acknowledging the courage and sacrifice of the troops who are sent to fight it. All wars result in the innocent being killed, it makes no difference whether they are 'justified' or not. Nor does their religion - nor that of the killers - make any difference either. In Afghanistan far more muslims have been killed BY muslims than by anybody else.

Actually it does matter if the war was justified. You don’t see the Germans supporting those who sacrificed in Neo Nazi war, do you? I mean they sacrifice their lives to fight against "outsiders". And they (soldiers) were supporting Hitler, killing of women, children, black, polish, Jews etc.


If you are against the war, I don’t see why anyone should support soldiers. They are merely doing what they have been paid to do.


Your last sentence, have you got proof for this or you just going by what the baised media says?
I do acknowledge there are Muslims that killed Muslims in the war. And I do no way support the Taliban. But do you honestly think the media would ever report innocent people being killed by British Armed forces unless they forced to? I don’t think so...

[Ummu Sufyaan]

What do you think about this?

i don't know. what do you think of your own family member who backstabs your family?

[marwen]

There is a distinction between 'supporting' a war, and supporting and acknowledging the courage and sacrifice of the troops who are sent to fight it. All wars result in the innocent being killed, it makes no difference whether they are 'justified' or not. Nor does their religion - nor that of the killers - make any difference either.

That makes no sense !

Here is an example : If you see a killer in the street who is murdering an old innocent lady. But because the lady was defending herself, it took him 2 hours to finish her. Would you say : "oh, that man was very brave and courageous, It took him tow exhausting hours to finish his job". Yes you're not supporting his act but you support his courage ?! how ridiculous is that !

In Afghanistan far more muslims have been killed BY muslims than by anybody else.

I'm not sure if that is true. But what's the point here ? Do you want to say : if muslims are killed by muslims, so why not non-muslim troops kill some of them too ! ?

[Snowflake]

Talk about being gorafied! May Allah guide them.

[The_Prince]

There is a distinction between 'supporting' a war, and supporting and acknowledging the courage and sacrifice of the troops who are sent to fight it. All wars result in the innocent being killed, it makes no difference whether they are 'justified' or not. Nor does their religion - nor that of the killers - make any difference either. In Afghanistan far more muslims have been killed BY muslims than by anybody else.

There is no 'courage' in fighting an illegal war against a people who have done nothing against you, and against a country who is much weaker than you. so please tell me, what courage? the soldiers go in with the best equipment, technology, and back up, and they face a bunch of guys with small arms fire, ak's, rocket launchers, and men fighting around in sandals! so please give us a break with this 'courage' nonsense, if anything, the ones with courage are the ones who stand up against a vastly superior army as in this case.

furthermore they didn't commit any sacrifice, they died for nothing, and for something illegal. tell me, what sacrifice are you making when you are fighting for an illegal cause?

so give us a break, these soldiers are not heroes, nor shall they ever be, and you and your media can keep repeating this rubbish that you just said, but all the facts say otherwise.

again, let's compare, the most sophisticated armies on earth vs local villagers with small arms fire, who really are the brave ones making sacrifices?????

[Woodrow]

Perhaps we all would be better off not passing judgment, unless we truly know what is in the other person's heart. Do we really know anything except the dead soldiers called themselves Muslim? Do we have any understanding why they felt being in the UK army was justified or as to how any why they may have thought they were serving Allaah(swt). We may be appalled at the act, but do any of us actually understand why they felt they were doing the right thing?

It may be many generations in the future before there is any understanding of what has and is happening in today's world.

[aadil77]

In Afghanistan far more muslims have been killed BY muslims than by anybody else.

Is that another pathetic excuse to justify a war, like the one about women not being able to go to school? Although I don't believe that statement in the slightest (unless you're including ANA and NA deaths), even if it were true it - it would be as a result of the foreign illegal invasion, wouldn't have happened if people had minded their own business

There is a distinction between 'supporting' a war, and supporting and acknowledging the courage and sacrifice of the troops who are sent to fight it.

Theres no courage in terrorism and fighting illegal wars - its no sacrifice - just a waste

All wars result in the innocent being killed, it makes no difference whether they are 'justified' or not. Nor does their religion - nor that of the killers - make any difference either.

If innocents die for an unjustified illegal war, then it does make a difference cause they died for absolutely nothing, if they die in the process of justified war then atleast their sacrifice meant something and was for something positive in the end. Religion does make a difference to us, especially if its non-muslims that invade our countries, thats when jihad in self defence becomes obligatory.

[aadil77]

Perhaps we all would be better off not passing judgment, unless we truly know what is in the other person's heart. Do we really know anything except the dead soldiers called themselves Muslim? Do we have any understanding why they felt being in the UK army was justified or as to how any why they may have thought they were serving Allaah(swt). We may be appalled at the act, but do any of us actually understand why they felt they were doing the right thing?

It may be many generations in the future before there is any understanding of what has and is happening in today's world.

We're not just talking about the dead 'muslim' soldiers, how about the imams and muslim groups that can come on tv infront of the whole world and give 'tribute' to soldiers waging wars against muslims. When muslims can do that, I don't think it longer matters whats in their 'hearts' as their actions have spoken loud enough, they're sinning openly so they are faasiqs.

[Rhubarb Tart]

I did not judge the dead Muslim solider or even their relatives or the funeral whatever they were attending! I am opposing to the fact that they feel and expressed the war was justified. Iraq is never ending mess since the war, how do they feel satisfied or even proud about that? I am not a fan of Hussein or Taliban either.

[Trumble]

That makes no sense !

Here is an example : If you see a killer in the street who is murdering an old innocent lady. But because the lady was defending herself, it took him 2 hours to finish her. Would you say : "oh, that man was very brave and courageous, It took him tow exhausting hours to finish his job". Yes you're not supporting his act but you support his courage ?! how ridiculous is that !

Totally ridiculous, but you are the one not making sense. It takes no courage to murder an innocent old lady; but regardless of the ignorant and puerile nonsense from the Talifans it takes considerable courage to fight a well organised and motivated guerilla force, be that in Afghanistan, Vietnam, WW2 Greece, Napoleonic Spain or wherever. None of those wars was justifiable, at least from the perspective of the best equipped force.

I'm not sure if that is true. But what's the point here ? Do you want to say : if muslims are killed by muslims, so why not non-muslim troops kill some of them too ! ?

Of course it's true, it's just not convenient for the Talifans and their little fantasy world. And no, I do not want to say that. I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy in suggesting troops should not be supported when they are killing muslims (presumably killing anybody else is just peachy?) both when other muslims are killing the same muslims, and when they are allied - in both cases we are discussing - with other muslims. As I said, that is totally different from supporting the war, or demanding that it be ended and the troops brought home.

[Scorpian]

What do you think about this?

Muslims pay tribute to UK's armed forces.

Page last updated at 16:44 GMT, Saturday, 3 July 2010 17:44 UK

Muslim women lay wreaths at the National Memorial Arboretum

A group of Muslim women have laid a wreath at the National Memorial Arboretum in honour of those who died fighting for the UK.
L/Cpl Jabron Hashmi, 24, from Birmingham, was the first British Muslim soldier to die in a Taliban attack in Afghanistan, in July 2006.
On the anniversary weekend of his death the women paid their respects at the Staffordshire centre.
The ceremony was organised by the Muslim Armed Forces Association.
L/Cpl Hashmi died in a Taliban attack on his base in Helmand It said 500 Muslims were currently serving in the British armed forces.
Kalsoom Bashir, who attended the ceremony said: "We are here for two reasons, to say that as mothers we share the grief of those that have lost their loved ones and we salute the loyalty of those men and women that have laid down their lives for our country.
"Secondly we are here to say loud and clear to those extremists that would exploit that grief, you're not one of us, you don't represent us."
A group of Muslims protested against the presence of British troops in Afghanistan when the Second Battalion Royal Anglian Regiment took part in a homecoming parade through Luton in March 2009.
Mrs Bashir said the behaviour of that sector of the Muslim community had "shocked" and "outraged" her.
I do not want wider society to be afraid of me as a Muslim woman.
Wreath layer Kalsoom Bashir
She said: "They were exploiting a very sensitive time. It was a time to show compassion. They were in contradiction of the principles of the faith that they claim to represent, it is not the religion I know and recognise."
Mr Hashmi's brother Zeehan, 31, said his mother had also joined the memorial ceremony.
Zeehan said he thought it was positive for Muslims to show their support for the British armed forces.

I say:
U go sisters hehe.I didn`t even know any muslims where serving in the army.Bet that shut them nationalist scum bags up, i can now use that in my next youtube argument hehe.

[marwen]

That makes no sense !
Here is an example : If you see a killer in the street who is murdering an old innocent lady. But because the lady was defending herself, it took him 2 hours to finish her. Would you say : "oh, that man was very brave and courageous, It took him tow exhausting hours to finish his job". Yes you're not supporting his act but you support his courage ?! how ridiculous is that !

Totally ridiculous, but you are the one not making sense. It takes no courage to murder an innocent old lady; but regardless of the ignorant and puerile nonsense from the Talifans it takes considerable courage to fight a well organised and motivated guerilla force, be that in Afghanistan, Vietnam, WW2 Greece, Napoleonic Spain or wherever. None of those wars was justifiable, at least from the perspective of the best equipped force.

What is the difference between killing an innocent lady in the street, and murdering innocent people in Vietnam or Afghanistan. Is it about the courage of going to war ? is that gonna justify the crimes they're doing ? and what courage is that when they are using advanced weapons to kill innocent people in their homes, or at least to fight a bunch of guys who defend their selves with knifes and old guns ? (it's not my problem if this bunch of guys kicked their a*s)
How can you support a war that is not justified. There is no honor, no courage and no sacrifice if you are fighting for despicable purposes.

Of course it's true, it's just not convenient for the Talifans and their little fantasy world. And no, I do not want to say that. I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy in suggesting troops should not be supported when they are killing muslims (presumably killing anybody else is just peachy?) both when other muslims are killing the same muslims, and when they are allied - in both cases we are discussing - with other muslims. As I said, that is totally different from supporting the war, or demanding that it be ended and the troops brought home.

Now that you insist on the fact that more muslims are killed by muslims, you're gonna have to show us your sources, unless you made the statistics by yourself.

[Trumble]

What is the difference between killing an innocent lady in the street, and murdering innocent people in Vietnam or Afghanistan. Is it about the courage of going to war ? is that gonna justify the crimes they're doing ? and what courage is that when they are using advanced weapons to kill innocent people in their homes, or at least to fight a bunch of guys who defend their selves with knifes and old guns ? (it's not my problem if this bunch of guys kicked their a*s)

I'm afraid I can't do anything about your ignorance. Innocents were murdered in cold blood in Vietnam and no doubt in Afghanistan as well (by all sides - check the source below), but the vast majority of operations by both sides are combat related. Civilians die, usually by mistake, however sophisticated your weapons and intelligence - that's an inevitability of war. The 'knives and old guns' stuff is BS in the context of this sort of war, just as it would have been talking about the Vietcong or any similar guerilla or partisan group.

How can you support a war that is not justified. There is no honor, no courage and no sacrifice if you are fighting for despicable purposes.

If we are talking about Afghanistan I don't support it. Your second sentence is abject nonsense, as obviously whether a purpose is 'despicable' or not is purely subjective. For example (and there are many, many more) both German and Japanese troops fought WW2 for 'despicable' purposes but nobody would seriously claim their troops were devoid of courage, honour, and made no sacrifices. Go read up on Stalingrad or Okinawa.

Now that you insist on the fact that more muslims are killed by muslims, you're gonna have to show us your sources, unless you made the statistics by yourself.

Sorry, no fairy stories HERE. While you are there you might want to read up on who exactly all those Taliban IEDs are killing and maiming, as well.

[marwen]

I'm afraid I can't do anything about your ignorance. Innocents were murdered in cold blood in Vietnam and no doubt in Afghanistan as well (by all sides - check the source below), but the vast majority of operations by both sides are combat related. Civilians die, usually by mistake, however sophisticated your weapons and intelligence - that's an inevitability of war. The 'knives and old guns' stuff is BS in the context of this sort of war, just as it would have been talking about the Vietcong or any similar guerilla or partisan group.

Supposing civilian casualties is an inevitability of war, there is a big difference between risking innocent people's lives for a noble purpose, and killing them for nothing.

Your second sentence is abject nonsense, as obviously whether a purpose is 'despicable' or not is purely subjective.

purely subjective IS despicable when we risk other peoples/countries safety.

nobody would seriously claim their troops were devoid of courage, honour, and made no sacrifices. Go read up on Stalingrad or Okinawa.

I can't understand your way of thinking. If your are emotionally declined to these troops, then you can sympathize with them even when they are wrong. But you can't claim they have courage, or honour or SACRIFICE. Do you know what is sacrifice ? It's derived from the word SACRED, it's something done for a "sacred" purpose, which I can't find in this war.

Sorry, no fairy stories HERE. While you are there you might want to read up on who exactly all those Taliban IEDs are killing and maiming, as well.

Let's assume resistance groups are making more civilian losts. Is that gonna justify the numbers killed by the troops. The big number of deaths is due to the available rough fighting techniques used by these groups, and I'm not supporting them. Another reason is the presence of the troops. I can't believe that taaliban or whatever other group is directly targeting civilians. They are trying to fight the invading troops. If there was no war, there won't be these resistance operations : Troops out = no victims.
Also keep in mind that not all IEDs are done by taaliban.

[Scorpian]

I would just like to clairify my post.
I don`t agree with the war in iraq or afghanistan, i just feel that these muslims saying they agree with it,is giving islam some good press for a change,cause all you here is the bad stuff.

[Trumble]

Supposing civilian casualties is an inevitability of war, there is a big difference between risking innocent people's lives for a noble purpose, and killing them for nothing.

Is there? Who has the right to decide what is 'noble' and what is not? Everyone thinks they are right and 'noble' and the other guy is wrong; so somebody is going to be in the firing line either way according to that reasoning.

purely subjective IS despicable when we risk other peoples/countries safety.

The purely subjective is inevitable. It is WAR that is despicable. Legal, illegal, right, wrong, it makes no difference to those caught up in the middle, whether civilian or military.

I can't understand your way of thinking. If your are emotionally declined to these troops, then you can sympathize with them even when they are wrong. But you can't claim they have courage, or honour or SACRIFICE. Do you know what is sacrifice ? It's derived from the word SACRED, it's something done for a "sacred" purpose, which I can't find in this war.

I can, and do. It is ridiculous to suggest that a member of side 'A' who, for example, died single-handedly charging and capturing a position from which fire was raining down on his comrades was acting with courage, honour and (self-)sacrifice, when a member of side 'B' who does exactly the same thing is showing none of those qualities.

Let's assume resistance groups are making more civilian losts. Is that gonna justify the numbers killed by the troops.

No. But that is not the point I am making.

I can't believe that taaliban or whatever other group is directly targeting civilians. They are trying to fight the invading troops. If there was no war, there won't be these resistance operations : Troops out = no victims.

And here, with all due respect, is that fantasy world again. I agree with the first part, in that I don't think EITHER side deliberately targets civilians. Where I disagree is with the bit about 'resistance operations', which is just as much nonsense in regard to Afghanistan as it was Iraq. The Taliban are not resisting foreign 'invaders' on behalf of the Afghan people, they are - as they were before - a distinct power group within Afghanistan supported by some and hated by others. Just as in relation to NATO and Afghan government troops, the majority just wish both combatant sides would just go away and leave them alone. But the sad fact is, the NATO troops could go home tomorrow and the body count would not stop.

[Cabdullahi]

We're not just talking about the dead 'muslim' soldiers, how about the imams and muslim groups that can come on tv infront of the whole world and give 'tribute' to soldiers waging wars against muslims. When muslims can do that, I don't think it longer matters whats in their 'hearts' as their actions have spoken loud enough, they're sinning openly so they are faasiqs.

aadil a fiery pokora as usual mash'Allah

[Jedi]

Is that another pathetic excuse to justify a war, like the one about women not being able to go to school? Although I don't believe that statement in the slightest (unless you're including ANA and NA deaths), even if it were true it - it would be as a result of the foreign illegal invasion, wouldn't have happened if people had minded their own business



Theres no courage in terrorism and fighting illegal wars - its no sacrifice - just a waste



If innocents die for an unjustified illegal war, then it does make a difference cause they died for absolutely nothing, if they die in the process of justified war then atleast their sacrifice meant something and was for something positive in the end. Religion does make a difference to us, especially if its non-muslims that invade our countries, thats when jihad in self defence becomes obligatory.

What happens when a muslim country invades another muslim country?
i.e. iraq v iran, iraq v kuwait, iran v iraq etc!
Who are the true muslims then?
And if and when the western powers leave iraq, will the muslims be at peace?
Or will they need another 'butcher of baghdad' type tyrant to keep them down?
"thats when jihad in self defence becomes obligatory."
And does this jihad mean attacking non combatants in western nations?

[Imaan]

Utterly disgraceful, brainwashed..... God know what?

[Jedi]

aadil a fiery pokora as usual mash'Allah

''You copy the west in the exact manner monkeys imitate others '' - Ibrahim alkhouly

Why have muslim countries taken help from non muslim western nations, whether it be in times of war, or natural disaster, or exchange of technology/trade or aid?

[Jedi]

pretty sad to see Muslims supporting the armies.

But, it was ok for muslim divisions of the Nazi SS to support hitler???????

By the way I do not support war!

[Life_Is_Short]

Ever wonder why the media pays so much attention to news stories like these? hmmm .. <_<

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

Zeehan said he thought it was positive for Muslims to show their support for the British armed forces

it's so shocking . I cant' believe that Muslims can show ' support ' for British troops who are killing our thousands and thousands innocent brothers & sisters. So pathetic.

[Dagless]

That makes no sense !

Here is an example : If you see a killer in the street who is murdering an old innocent lady. But because the lady was defending herself, it took him 2 hours to finish her. Would you say : "oh, that man was very brave and courageous, It took him tow exhausting hours to finish his job". Yes you're not supporting his act but you support his courage ?! how ridiculous is that !

This is a great example and exactly correct. The US attacked without just cause, therefore they are the aggressors. The Afghans are simply defending (which is what any nation would do). If there was no attack there would be no casualties. It's that simple.

In Afghanistan far more muslims have been killed BY muslims than by anybody else.

This is just wrong. I looked at your link, 2006? 2009? Do you realise the war started in 2001! There have been up to 30,000 civilian deaths caused by the US, and that's before you count the deaths classed as "combatants". Are you seriously saying the Afghans have killed 30,000+ of their own people? What rubbish.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

Why have muslim countries taken help from non muslim western nations, whether it be in times of war, or natural disaster, or exchange of technology[/B]/trade or aid?

why ? what's the problem with exchange of technology or helping each other in disaster time ? Muslims are not allowed to hate non-Muslims . What's ur point here ?

[Jedi]

Salaam/Peace



why ? what's the problem with exchange of technology or helping each other in disaster time ? Muslims are not allowed to hate non-Muslims . What's ur point here ?

Please re-read:

''You copy the west in the exact manner monkeys imitate others '' - Ibrahim alkhouly

Why have muslim countries taken help from non muslim western nations, whether it be in times of war, or natural disaster, or exchange of technology/trade or aid?

I might be hairy, but I'm no monkey:smile:

[Trumble]

This is a great example and exactly correct. The US attacked without just cause, therefore they are the aggressors. The Afghans are simply defending (which is what any nation would do). If there was no attack there would be no casualties. It's that simple.

You refer to 2001 and yet you seem utterly clueless as to what happened then. Most of the fighting to oust the Taliban was done by MUSLIM 'Northern Alliance' forces continuing a war that had begun five years or so earlier; US support just put them in a position to win it. As to 'the Afghans', please refer to my previous post.

Are you seriously saying the Afghans have killed 30,000+ of their own people? What rubbish.

No it is not rubbish, and yes am saying it. It's just easier to accept the fairy stories, though, isn't it?

[Dagless]

You refer to 2001 and yet you seem utterly clueless as to what happened then. Most of the fighting to oust the Taliban was done by MUSLIM 'Northern Alliance' forces continuing a war that had begun five years or so earlier; US support just put them in a position to win it. As to 'the Afghans', please refer to my previous post.

So you're saying the US DIDN'T kill Afghans by bombing supply lines in October 2001? So the US killed no Afghans until 2007 according to you? This is the exact opposite of what human rights groups and the US themselves say. Do we believe the US and human rights groups or Trumble? Who's clueless now?

No it is not rubbish, and yes am saying it. It's just easier to accept the fairy stories, though, isn't it?

Erm... who is the one here who is not providing any proof for his statements? Please show me any source other than yourself which shows 30,000+ civilians were killed by Afghans. Of course you can't show it because its not true.

[Dagless]

Please re-read:

''You copy the west in the exact manner monkeys imitate others '' - Ibrahim alkhouly

Why have muslim countries taken help from non muslim western nations, whether it be in times of war, or natural disaster, or exchange of technology/trade or aid?

I might be hairy, but I'm no monkey:smile:

1) Have you read the entire statement? Do you understand what was being said and the context? How do you know he was not just referring to one event or some bad practices?
2) How is exchange of information or aid a form of imitation? If someone falls down and I help them up are they imitating me?
3) Why don't you troll elsewhere?

[Jedi]

1) Have you read the entire statement? Do you understand what was being said and the context? How do you know he was not just referring to one event or some bad practices?
2) How is exchange or information or aid a form of imitation? If someone falls down and I help them up are they imitating me?
3) Why don't you troll elsewhere?

I'm here for adult debate/discussion!
I'm no troll!

See you have ganged up and joined in the troll accusation!
Hope that's not me going ape!

[جوري]

Please re-read:

''You copy the west in the exact manner monkeys imitate others '' - Ibrahim alkhouly

Why have muslim countries taken help from non muslim western nations, whether it be in times of war, or natural disaster, or exchange of technology/trade or aid?

I might be hairy, but I'm no monkey:smile:

good question.. why not ask that of your leaders when they beg for :

KUWAIT CITY (AFP) – The United States has asked four oil-rich Gulf states for close to 300 billion dollars to help it curb the global financial meltdown, Kuwait's daily Al-Seyassah reported Thursday.
Quoting "highly informed" sources, the daily said Washington has asked Saudi Arabia for 120 billion dollars, the United Arab Emirates for 70 billion dollars, Qatar for 60 billion dollars and was seeking 40 billion dollars from Kuwait.
Al-Seyassah said Washington sought the amount as "financial aid" to face the fallout of the financial crisis and help prevent its economy from sliding into a painful recession.
The daily said the United States plans to use the funds to help the ailing automobile industry , banks and other companies suffering from the global financial turmoil.
The four nations, all members of OPEC, produce together 14 million barrels of oil per day, around half of the cartel's production and about 17 percent of world supplies.
The four states are estimated to have amassed close to 1.5 trillion dollars in surplus in the past six years due to high oil prices that rocketed above 147 dollars in July before sliding to just above 50 dollars.
The daily also said that the United States has asked Kuwait to forgive its Iraqi debt estimated at around 16 billion dollars.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081120...JOoU6Ff0es0NUE

also pays to read before you write (as a general rule)

we can only hope more of your troops come back in body bags insha'Allah..

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

I'm here for adult debate/discussion!
I'm no troll!

See you have ganged up and joined in the troll accusation!
Hope that's not me going ape!

U are going off topic. If u want to know if Muslims are allowed to take help from non Muslims or should exchage info / technology , then pl. start a thread. Thanks.

[Jedi]

good question.. why not ask that of your leaders when they beg for :

KUWAIT CITY (AFP) – The United States has asked four oil-rich Gulf states for close to 300 billion dollars to help it curb the global financial meltdown, Kuwait's daily Al-Seyassah reported Thursday.
Quoting "highly informed" sources, the daily said Washington has asked Saudi Arabia for 120 billion dollars, the United Arab Emirates for 70 billion dollars, Qatar for 60 billion dollars and was seeking 40 billion dollars from Kuwait.
Al-Seyassah said Washington sought the amount as "financial aid" to face the fallout of the financial crisis and help prevent its economy from sliding into a painful recession.
The daily said the United States plans to use the funds to help the ailing automobile industry , banks and other companies suffering from the global financial turmoil.
The four nations, all members of OPEC, produce together 14 million barrels of oil per day, around half of the cartel's production and about 17 percent of world supplies.
The four states are estimated to have amassed close to 1.5 trillion dollars in surplus in the past six years due to high oil prices that rocketed above 147 dollars in July before sliding to just above 50 dollars.
The daily also said that the United States has asked Kuwait to forgive its Iraqi debt estimated at around 16 billion dollars.




also pays to read before you write (as a general rule)



we can only hope more of your troops come back in body bags insha'Allah..

Can't get your link to work.
And the western leaders are not my leaders!
And the point of my question, is why would muslims take help/aid from the kuffar!
Where is the help/aid from the ummah?

''You copy the west in the exact manner monkeys imitate others '' - Ibrahim alkhouly

Seems to be an all encompassing statement!

[جوري]

Can't get your link to work.

That isn't my problem!

And the western leaders are not my leaders!

Oh, then on whose behalf do you speak?

And the point of my question, is why would muslims take help/aid from the kuffar!

and likewise why are the kaffirs taking aid from Muslims (as per above)? Where is the aid from other like minded kaffirs?

Seems to be an all encompassing statement!

Indeed..

all the best!

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

[B]And the point of my question, is why would muslims take help/aid from the kuffar!

there is no bar for Muslims to exchange aids or take help from non-Muslims .

O people, We have created you from a male and a female and made you into races and tribes so that you may know each other. Indeed the noblest of you in the sight of God are those who are the most pious among you. And Allah knows every thing and is aware of every thing.}* (Al-Hujurat 49:13)

Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity.

( سورة الممتحنة , Al-Mumtahana, Chapter #60, Verse #8)

So ,it's clear that Muslims won't hate all non-Muslims . But they must not also praise or pay tribute to those soldiers who are guilty of killing Muslims.

[Argamemnon]

There is a distinction between 'supporting' a war, and supporting and acknowledging the courage and sacrifice of the troops who are sent to fight it. All wars result in the innocent being killed, it makes no difference whether they are 'justified' or not. Nor does their religion - nor that of the killers - make any difference either. In Afghanistan far more muslims have been killed BY muslims than by anybody else.

Supporting and acknowledging the "bravery" of carpet bombing defenseless countries is immoral and indefensible. As for Muslims killing Muslims, this does not excuse western states invading and massacring and raping of Muslims. Muslims killing Muslims is an internal matter, it's none of your business. Besides, often western intelligence agencies and governments are the ones who are destabilizing Muslim countries in the first place.