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Tyrion
07-11-2010, 03:23 AM
:sl:

I'd really like some answers from knowledgeable Muslims here... Lately I've been bombarded with all this anti-god/anti-religious talk that deals with recent advances in cognitive science and the brain. Things like how brain scans show how religious experiences have a place in the brain, or how God could be a creation of our brain, etc... Also the nature of the mind itself.

You might have noticed already, but I recently created another thread asking about how I could combine Islam with the study of Cognitive Science, as its a field I might be interested in studying. I feel like it's important to expose myself to all of the new advances, but at the same time I need to hear how Islam responds to all these things.

I don't really have access to Muslims who are knowledgeable in these subjects, and constantly hearing all this stuff is troubling, so I thought the best course of action would be to post here and hope that someone with some knowledge could help out. Thanks =)

(Also, I don't know if this thread belongs in another section of the forum, so hopefully its okay here... And I hope the post it clear, as I'm in a bit of a rush right now. :P )
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PouringRain
07-11-2010, 04:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Halcyon
I am aware of the the proposition of the "god-part" of our brain which has played an important role in the evolution of belief. There are many books written on it, I have not read any, sadly. I remember a research done by Vilayanur S. Ramachandran, I believe, in which he was working with a patient whose left brain was not in connection with the right brain (corpus collassum was destroyed). When, by using some techniques, the experimenter asked the patient's left brain about his belief in God, the patient told that he did not believe in God. When the same patient's right brain was asked the question, the patient said he believed in God. As I cannot post links, search for And you believe Heaven and Hell exist? Two Minds - One Body in you tube. You will get his video with a split brain patient.

Ramachandran does a lot of work and research on individuals with brain disorders and abnormalities. I enjoy reading his stuff. His website, btw, has some full text articles on it. Some other research he has done is on religious experiences in individuals with temporal lobe epilepsy.

http://cbc.ucsd.edu/ramabio.html

You also might be interested in the work of Andrew Newberg: http://www.andrewnewberg.com/default.asp

And also Persinger.

But I wouldn't limit myself strictly to the research of those three.

I should be asleep already!!!!
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Insecured soul
07-11-2010, 05:58 AM
Pray salaat and make dua to allah subhanawatala to keep u on the straight path and keep ur imaan firm, these stupid scientist will only tell u something new to make u an athiest but no matter if its einstien or stephen hawking they wouldnt tell u what will happen to u after u die? how ur soul will travel? where will u be? how u will be? its prophets who told us all that, follow them not scientist.


salaam alaikum
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glo
07-11-2010, 08:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tyrion
:sl:

I'd really like some answers from knowledgeable Muslims here... Lately I've been bombarded with all this anti-god/anti-religious talk that deals with recent advances in cognitive science and the brain. Things like how brain scans show how religious experiences have a place in the brain, or how God could be a creation of our brain, etc...
I'm afraid I am definitely not a knowledgeable Muslim, but I have wondered why our connectivity with God (our 'God sense', if you like) should not show itself active in our brain?
That's what the brain does. It registers sensory input and output. What we feel by touch or smell or sight or body awareness or emotion ... etc, etc
Why not then register our sense which puts us in touch with God?

I don't think it's any sign that God doesn't exist. Quite the contrary ...

(Sorry, I cannot put it in the right scientific terms. But I hope you know what I mean)
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Alpha Dude
07-11-2010, 09:07 AM
Wa alaykum salam,
Lately I've been bombarded with all this anti-god/anti-religious talk that deals with recent advances in cognitive science and the brain. Things like how brain scans show how religious experiences have a place in the brain, or how God could be a creation of our brain, etc... Also the nature of the mind itself.
Probably not a 'scientific reply', but something cool I read written a while ago in relation to this - 'if the brain was convinced that the host was eating an apple (despite him not doing so), would that necessarily mean apples don't exist at all?
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tango92
07-11-2010, 09:08 AM
well why else did Allah swt give us a consious brain if not to use it to think about him?

the concept of Allah swt is very simple, in the most basic sense he is square 1, the creator of everything. you dont need complex thinking or math formulas to realise things dont just create themselves and then smash themselves into perfectly working machines.
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Trumble
07-11-2010, 10:01 AM
Science hasn't even come close to resolving the good ol' fashioned mind/body problem yet. I don't think there are any advances in cognitive or neuro science that demand 'reconcilliation' with either your religion or mine, or any foreseeable indication of such. I certainly see no difficulties in combining such studies with being a muslim; indeed it might bring an interesting perspective.
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syed_z
07-12-2010, 07:32 PM
You might have noticed already, but I recently created another thread asking about how I could combine Islam with the study of Cognitive Science, as its a field I might be interested in studying. I feel like it's important to expose myself to all of the new advances, but at the same time I need to hear how Islam responds to all these things.
hmm... i replied at that other thread.... hmm... i don't know why you started another thread... well any ways..


I agree with Brother Tango and others... our Minds are not equipped well to understand what is definition of right and wrong.... we need a higher source of guidance that can inform our reasoning... that is reason why God kept sending Prophets to guide mankind.... as our minds are limited just as we ourselves are limited creatures in the Whole Big Wide Universe...and so Quran says...


(76:1) Was there a period of time when man was not even worthy of a mention?


We as limited beings who have ability not to see beyond and use our external experience to figure out our destiny and the Mystery of the universe.... since even though mankind has developed and has progressed in Science, still it has to answer many reasons as to why we're created , why were we born , why did this Universe come in to existence, and there are plenty of whys.... which need to be answered and cannot be answered due to limited sphere of external...

so this shows that mankind is in need of a Higher source which can help it understand and connect it to higher Reality , which then can answer all the whys for him..... other than that, with his limited perception , which is dependent on his external experience, he can come up to conclusions which can be full of errors and can cause serious imbalance...


When we have Divine Guidance or Religious way, which we can connect with our reason and make that the Basis to explore the Universe then that observation in turn helps us learn as well as Understand the Creator and His Creative Power, which then helps us keep a Balance with in ourselves and with our environment....and as compared to the mind which keeps exploring and observing and trying to perceive beyond its physical which it cannot, definitely, without the help of higher source, gets caught up in the quagmire of theories which he is not too sure about, and they always keep changing.....

Also the reason i said that this would help us keep balance is because, we when have our Ups and downs in our lives, and if we just ignore the Religion and try to understand just on the basis of our reason we will think that its some blind forces which are making this happen, and then that leads towards superstition as well, which are also the product of our own minds and so we would never be able to be at peace within ourselves.... but if a person who uses Divine guidance to understand the universe and the world around him and his life, then those Ups and Downs are outcome of God's way of dealing with the creation which then in turn helps him/her keep a balance within themselves and there fore that person becomes spiritually inclined more towards the Higher Reality which distinguishes himself from irreligious people...

and it is there fore Muhammad (Saw) said....A believer is the one when he faces difficulty or hardship he bears it patiently and remembers his Lord and when he is given a blessing he remembers and thanks his lord.


So as i had mentioned to the brother who started this thread previously, that the Philosophy of mind, or Philosophical subjects have also been dealt by Scholars of Islam, and there has always been Islamic Philosophers throughout the History of Muslims, who have written philosophical works, which are available online and in libraries....

Examples are Mulla Sadra, Ibn Sina, Imam Ghazali, Ibn Arabi etc.... great Muslim Philosophers who dealt with subjects of Philosophy under the light of Islamic Traditions and have answered beautifully the different aspects of our lives and if Philosphy of mind or philosophical subjects are studied purely intellectually, without religion then, because of our reason not being well equipped to comprehend the Higher realities, then our conclusions can and will take us away even further away from God....

...and so i suggest, either dont mess around with such subjects, which consider human mind to be able to explore everything, or if you do think of taking the course then read Islamic Philosophy on the side, which makes God the bases of all our knowledge acquired externally and which makes the picture clear for us.... and avoids all doubts and suspicion about religious way of life and God...

Since Islamic World was divided in to Individual nations during Colonization... our Muslim way of acquiring knowledge has gone from our part of the World, the East... plus with Corrupt puppet regimes after colonization, such way to aqcuire knolwedge was never worked upon... and so the best way i see to go about in the World for us Muslims is, to read Islam thoroughly side by side with Secular knowledge, so we do not end up having doubts about our Din (islamic way of life) as it is creating in the hearts of many young Muslims, who go through pure Secular education system....whether in West or in most countries of Muslim World...
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Dagless
07-12-2010, 07:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tyrion
Things like how brain scans show how religious experiences have a place in the brain, or how God could be a creation of our brain, etc... Also the nature of the mind itself.
I think you should post some specific question you are finding issue with.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say religious experience but one possible answer could be that the brain/mind is just an interface with which to experience rather than the root of the experience? Our brain can create/imagine things which are god-like (to us anyway) but those have no power outside of ourselves.
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