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aadil77
07-15-2010, 10:37 AM
I thought it would be a good idea to make a list of common bida'h (religious innovations) that people are unaware of

you can post more and I'll add them to this list, but make sure you post the relevent ruling or fatwa with each one

Celebrating 12th Rabee Ul Awwal AKA Mawlid AKA Eid-Milad-Un-Nabi AKA Prophets Birthday
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/249


Celebrating 15th Shabaan AKA Shab-e-Barat
http://muslimways.com/weak-fabricate...b-e-barat.html


Celebrating 27th Rajab AKA Isra'a and Miraaj AKA Laylatul Mi'raaj
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/60288


Kissing thumbs at hearing prophets name during athaan
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/21373
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aadil77
07-15-2010, 02:50 PM
anymore>>>>>?
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Asiyah3
07-15-2010, 03:42 PM
Celebrating birthdays

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/1027/
Reply

Zafran
07-15-2010, 06:19 PM
salaam

Kissing the thumbs is not a bida its based on a weak hadith.

peace
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aadil77
07-15-2010, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by Zafran
salaam

Kissing the thumbs is not a bida its based on a weak hadith.

peace
Praise be to Allaah.

As far as we know, there is no saheeh report from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that when the muezzin says “Ashhadu anna Muhammadan Rasool-Allaah” we should kiss our thumbs, so doing so is a bid’ah (innovation). But it was proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Whoever innovates something in this matter of ours that is not part of it will have it rejected.” And Allaah is the Source of strength. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad.



See Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, vol. 6, p. 96.
Reply

Zafran
07-15-2010, 09:40 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
Praise be to Allaah.

As far as we know, there is no saheeh report from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that when the muezzin says “Ashhadu anna Muhammadan Rasool-Allaah” we should kiss our thumbs, so doing so is a bid’ah (innovation). But it was proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Whoever innovates something in this matter of ours that is not part of it will have it rejected.” And Allaah is the Source of strength. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad.


See Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, vol. 6, p. 96.
Salaam

The great contemporary scholar Shaykh Taqi Usmani (Allah have mercy on him) also mentions the non-offensiveness of this act in his “Discourses of Islamic Way of Life” thus he states:

“Upon listening to the Adhan in the Masjid, you heard the words “Ashhadu Anna Muhammad al-Rasul Allah” you suddenly felt a deep sense of love for the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and in this state of love and ecstasy you kissed your thumbs and placed them on your eyes. This action, in of itself, cannot be considered sinful or Bid’a. The reason being is that you did this out of love for the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), and love and respect for the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) is a praiseworthy act and a sign of faith….” (Islahi Khutbat (Urdu), 1/231)

The above statement from one of the renowned scholars of the Deobandi School clearly shows that the act of kissing one’s thumbs and placing them upon the eyes during Adhan is not, in of itself, an act of innovation. Those who categorically condemn this practice altogether should realize that it is not a baseless act that was invented by some Muslims in the Indian Subcontinent. It is something that is practiced in other parts of the Muslim and Arab world also, such as in Syria and Yemen. If one was to visit the famous city of Syria Halab (Aleppo), one would see many Arab Muslims including scholars kissing their thumbs and placing them on their eyes upon hearing the name of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) during the Adhan.

However, the other side of the coin is what we are discussing in this article, which is to over-emphasise something that may be merely considered a recommended act. Unfortunately, the other extremism found in some of our brothers is that they consider this act to be firmly established through the Sunnah like it is mentioned in a Hadith of Sahih al-Bukhari, hence they consider it to be a sign of being a true Muslim, and the one who does not kiss his thumbs is committing a sin. Thus, Shaykh Mufti Taqi Usmani (may Allah preserve him) further states:

“However, if an individual begins to tell the whole world that whenever during the Adhan you hear “Ashhadu Anna Muhammad al-Rasul Allah” you must all kiss your thumbs because it is Sunnah or Mustahab to do so, and whoever fails to kiss his thumbs does not truly love the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), then this act, which was otherwise completely permissible, will become an act of reprehensible innovation. This is a minute difference between the two situations, in that if this lawful act is done with a right attitude, then it is not an innovation. However, if it is considered binding or thought to be an established Sunnah to the point that the one who wishes not to practice it is condemned, then it will become an innovation.” (Islahi Khutbat, 1/231)
source - http://www.daruliftaa.com/question.a...nID=q-09233162

heres another one.

[link removed]

peace
Reply

abdussattar
07-18-2010, 02:46 AM
Shab-e-baraat is also based on weak hadith

"On this day Allah forgives as many people as the hair of the sheep of "Banu Qalb"

but is is not fixed on 15 shabaan but it should be found.
Reply

paradise88
07-25-2010, 08:36 PM
Im really confused about the 15th Shaban. All i have heard n read is that Allah decends into the nearest heavens to the earth and our fate is decided or something.. I know many people stay up n pray etc even though we should do that anyway all the time as much as we can. Some people go overboard and im not sure about this day. Can anyone give me hadiths etc or explain about this day..
Reply

Danah
07-25-2010, 09:21 PM
Incredible thread, please keep posting.

I will share anything I find useful inshaAllah
Reply

Insaanah
07-25-2010, 10:03 PM
Originally Posted by paradise786
Im really confused about the 15th Shaban. All i have heard n read is that Allah decends into the nearest heavens to the earth and our fate is decided or something.. I know many people stay up n pray etc even though we should do that anyway all the time as much as we can. Some people go overboard and im not sure about this day. Can anyone give me hadiths etc or explain about this day..
:sl:

Laylat al-Nusf min Sha’baan (the middle of Sha’baan) should not be singled out for worship


I read in a book that fasting on the middle of Sha’baan is a kind of bid’ah, but in another book I read that one of the days on which it is mustahabb to fast is the middle of Sha’baan… what is the definitive ruling on this?

Praise be to Allaah.

There is no saheeh marfoo’ report that speaks of the virtue of the middle of Sha’baan that may be followed, not even in the chapters on al-Fadaa’il (chapters on virtues in books of hadeeth etc.). Some maqtoo’ reports (reports whose isnaads do not go back further than the Taabi’een) have been narrated from some of the Taabi’een, and there are some ahaadeeth, the best of which are mawdoo’ (fabricated) or da’eef jiddan (very weak). These reports became very well known in some countries which were overwhelmed by ignorance; these reports suggest that people’s lifespans are written on that day or that it is decided on that day who is to die in the coming year. On this basis, it is not prescribed to spend this night in prayer or to fast on this day, or to single it out for certain acts of worship. One should not be deceived by the large numbers of ignorant people who do these things. And Allaah knows best.

Shaykh Ibn Jibreen.

If a person wants to pray qiyaam on this night as he does on other nights – without doing anything extra or singling this night out for anything – then that is OK. The same applies if he fasts the day of the fifteenth of Sha’baan because it happens to be one of the ayyaam al-beed, along with the fourteenth and thirteenth of the month, or because it happens to be a Monday or Thursday. If the fifteenth (of Sha’baan) coincides with a Monday or Thursday, there is nothing wrong with that (fasting on that day), so long as he is not seeking extra reward that has not been proven (in the saheeh texts). And Allaah knows best.

Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

Source
Reply

Insaanah
07-25-2010, 10:18 PM
Originally Posted by ~SilverOrchid~
i like this conclusive paragraph
:sl:

Our attitude concerning da’eef (weak) ahaadeeth which speak of good deeds


What is the attitude of the scholars concerning a hadeeth whose isnaad is da’eef (weak), but whose text encourages a righteous deed or a du’aa’? Please respond.


Praise be to Allaah.

The scholars differed concerning acting upon weak ahaadeeth which encourage righteous deeds. Some of them were of the view that it is permissible to act upon them, subject to certain conditions, and others were of the view that it is not permissible to act upon them.

Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar (may Allaah have mercy on him) summed up the conditions for it to be permissible to act upon a saheeh hadeeth, which are as follows:

1 – It should not be very weak, and one should not act upon a hadeeth which was narrated only by one of the liars or those who are accused of lying, or whose mistakes are serious.

2 – It should mention a good deed for which there is a basis in sharee’ah.

3 – When acting upon it one should not believe that the action is well-founded, rather he should do it on the basis of erring on the side of caution.

Acting upon a weak hadeeth does not mean that we believe it is mustahabb to do an act of worship simply because a da’eef hadeeth has been narrated concerning it. None of the scholars has said such a thing – as we shall see from the words of Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, below – rather what it means is that if it is proven that a certain act of worship is mustahabb because there is sound (saheeh) shar’i evidence – as in the case of qiyaam al-layl (supererogatory prayers at night), for example – then we find a da’eef hadeeth which speaks of the virtue of qiyaam al-layl, then there is nothing wrong with acting upon this weak hadeeth in that case. What is meant by acting upon it is narrating it in order to encourage people to do this act of worship, in the hope that the one who does it will earn the reward mentioned in the da’eef hadeeth, because acting on the weak hadeeth in this case will not lead to doing something that is forbidden in sharee’ah, such as saying that an act of worship is mustahabb that is not proven in sharee’ah. Rather, if he earns this reward all well and good, otherwise no harm is done.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 1/250:

It is not permissible in Islam to rely on weak ahaadeeth that are neither saheeh nor hasan, but Ahmad ibn Hanbal and other scholars regarded it is permissible to narrate reports concerning righteous deeds which are not known to be proven, so long as they are not known to be lies, on the basis that if an action is known to be prescribed in Islam from shar’i evidence, and there is a hadeeth which is not known to be a lie, it is possible that the reward referred to in that weak hadeeth may be true. None of the imams said that it is permissible to regard something as obligatory or mustahabb on the basis of a weak hadeeth; whoever says that is going against scholarly consensus. It is permissible to narrate reports that are not known to be lies in order to encourage and warn people, but only with regard to matters where it is known that Allaah has encouraged or warned against them on the basis of other evidence the status of whose narrators is not unknown. End quote.

Abu Bakr ibn al-‘Arabi said that it is not permissible to act on the basis of a weak hadeeth at all, whether with regard to virtuous deeds or otherwise… See Tadreeb al-Raawi, 1/252.

This is the view favoured by al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him). See the introduction to Saheeh al-Targheeb wa’l-Tarheeb, 1/47-67.

The saheeh proven reports from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) offer us sufficient evidence that we have no need to act on the basis of weak hadeeths.

The Muslim must strive to find out which ahaadeeth are sound (saheeh) and which are weak (da’eef), and be content to act on the basis of the sound reports.

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A

Source

:sl:
Reply

cat eyes
07-25-2010, 11:01 PM
:sl: its good to learn the science of hadith.. and many scholars have said that theres so many sound hadiths that why muslims feel the need to rely on a weak hadith? imam bukhari's collection is the most authentic and muslims i believe whom are uneducated become very careless in this matter so much so that they don't even care to check such a hadith out by a scholar


Assalamu-`alaykum wa rahamatullahi wa barakatuhu:

1. Introduction
Over the years, Christian missionaries have solidified their reputation for embracing zealous new recruits. One fresh addition to this delegation of holy servicemen is the neophyte, Andrew Vargo. More often than not, the missionaries have overlooked the academic backgrounds of these fresh recruits, apparently intoxicated by their impassioned hatred for Islam. Mr. Vargo has recently tried his hand as a student of comparative religion, introducing some of the most fantastic ideas yet to the discourse. Among these ideas is a rather boastful claim concerning the collection of ahadith by the great Muslim scholar, Imam al-Bukhari (d. 256 AH). The highlight of Vargo's claim lies in the following:

In fact, it is difficult, in spite of the Muslim "science" of Hadith to know which traditions are strong or weak! For example, Bukhari collected over 600,000 reports, but kept only 7,397 as true!

This is one of the most popular claims concerning the vast collection of ahadith of al-Bukhari in the Christian missionary literature and comes with fanciful explanations. For example, Anis Shorrosh, a well-known Arab missionary, says:

... Bukhari, collected twenty thousand of them, of which he rejected ten thousand, accounting them untrue. Of the remaining ten thousand he accepted only 7,275, declaring the rest to be untrustworthy. Abu Da'ud accepted as authentic only 4,800 rules out 50,000.[1]

Similarly we find Norman Geisler and Abdul Saleeb claiming that:

...Bukhari, considered to be the most reliable collector, admitted that of the 300,000 hadith he collected, he considered only 100,000 might be true. He then narrowed this number down to 7,275, many of which are repetitions so that the total number is in fact near 3,000. That means that even he admitted there were errors in over 295,000 of them![2]

Nearly a similar statement is repeated by Geisler in his Baker Encyclopedia Of Christian Apologetics to cast doubts on the miracles performed by the Prophet Muhammad.[3] Abdiyah Akbar Abdul-Haqq, on the other hand, labels what al-Bukhari did not include in his collection as "apocryphal".

As to the abundance of the apocryphal traditions, we learn that the famous authority al-Bukhari choose only 7,000 out of a host of 600,000 traditions that were current in his on time.[4]

Similar statements were made by John Ankerberg and John Weldon, who quoted a "Muslim scholar".[5]

Not surprising is the case of Rand Corporation, who have published an interesting report on Islam entitled "Civil Democratic Islam: Partners, Resources, and Strategies". The report has two fold agenda: firstly, to try to create a version of Islam that suits the post-9/11 Western agenda and secondly encouraging creation of divisions in the Muslim society at home and abroad. The Rand Report's recipe to achieve this aim is to encourage and promote the so-called modernist Muslims and play one section of the society against another to split the Muslim society. A small example of it can be seen when the report uses the material from the hadith-rejectors (not surprisingly!) to claim "objectively" that:

Even if that were not the case, objectively speaking, there is little doubt that hadith is at best a dubious, flawed instrument. Consider that Al-Bukhari is the compiler of what is generally considered to be the most authoritative and reliable collections of hadith. He collected 600,000 hadith, examined them for their authenticity, eliminated all but 7,600 of them, deleted some for redundancy, and was left with a collection of about 4,000.[6]

As we shall see, feisty statements such as the above only prove to be self-defeating in the end. This article intends to examine missionaries' thesis in light of the scholarship of Imam al-Bukhari, and thereby ascertain the actual worth of their claim.

To appreciate the broader perspective, we will also include a discussion of Imam Muslim's ahadith collection, insha'allah.

2. Imam Bukhari & The Nature Of His Collection
Vargo, Shorrosh, Geisler, Abdul Saleeb, Abdul-Haqq and Benard have practically begged the question for us already - where exactly did Imam al-Bukhari mention that among the 600,000 ahadith in his collection, only 7,397 are to be accepted as 'true'? They maintains the missionary tradition of conveniently omitting any references that would not support their thesis; the mark of a true academicians, indeed! Once again, it is left to the Muslims to enlighten the ill-informed missionaries on this matter.

Imam al-Bukhari's actual words have been reproduced below:



* The two sahih collections did not gather the totality of the authentic ahadith as proved by al-Bukhari's testimony: "I have not included in my book al-Jami` but what is authentic, and I left out among the authentic for fear of [excessive] length.(Footnote 2)"

Footnote 2 says:

He [al-Bukhari] meant that he did not mention all the turuq [parallel chains of transmission] for each and every hadith.[7]

To reiterate this in elementary English, Imam al-Bukhari selected only a few authentic ahadith from his vast collection. However, he left out certain traditions, despite their authenticity, simply to avoid excessive length and repetition in his Al-Jami` (a discussion about which is given below). If anything, the privilege to make such a gesture is highly complimentary to the authenticity of the Islamic traditions. In another tradition, Imam al-Bukhari is also reported to have said:



He said, I heard as-Sa`dani say, I heard some of our companions say, Muhammad Ibn Isma`il said: I selected/published [the content of] this book - meaning the Sahih book - from about 600,000 hadiths/reports. Abu Sa`d al-Malini informed us that `Abdullah Ibn `Udayy informed us: I heard al-Hasan Ibn al-Husayn al-Bukhari say: "I have not included in my book al-Jami` but what is authentic, and I left out among the authentic what I could not get hold of."[8]

The above quotation reflects Imam al-Bukhari's gallant honesty to admit that he was not able to collect each and every authentic tradition that existed in his day. Rather, his Al-Jami` is only a partial collection of authentic traditions, despite its massive volume. Furthermore, it should be clarified for the missionaries that the notion of a partial collection of authentic material is quite different from the notion of a partially authentic collection of material. However, it is not our aim to offer a course on propositional reasoning. Thus, we leave the point with the hope that they will eventually comprehend this piece of preschool logic.

Professor Mustafa al-Azami, who offered a devastating critique of Joseph Schacht's work, again clarifies the misunderstanding of many orientalists on this issue:

Al-Bukhari did not claim that what he left out were the spurious, nor that there were no authentic traditions outside his collection. On the contrary he said, "I only included in my book al-Jami` those that were authentic, and I left out many more authentic traditions than this to avoid unnecessary length." He had no intention of collecting all the authentic traditions. He only wanted to compile a manual of hadith, according to the wishes of his Shaikh Ishaq b. Rahwaih, and his function is quite clear from the title of his book al-Jami` al-Musnad al-Sahih al-Mukhtasar min umur Rasul Allah wa Sunanhi wa ayyamih. The word al-Mukhtasar, 'epitome', itself explains that al-Bukhari did not make any attempt at a comprehensive collection.[9]

Yet, the missionaries seem to be living under the delusion that the 600,000 ahadith of Imam al-Bukhari's collection somehow means 600,000 separate narrations or bodies of text. His sloppy study of this issue becomes clear when one learns that a hadith is comprised of both a text (matn) and a chain of transmission (isnad). In the science of hadith, the same text with ten chains of transmission is regarded not as one hadith but rather as ten hadiths, despite the fact that the text attached to each chain is the same in every case.

Professor Mustafa al-Azami adds:

Now it is clear that when traditionalists give enormous numbers for the traditions, they mean channels and sources of their transmission, and do not mean real numbers of hadith.[10]

Nabia Abbott, a prominent orientalist who conducted an extensive study on hadith literature, observed that the phenomenal growth of the corpus of this literature is not due to growth in content but due to progressive increase in the parallel and multiple chains of transmission, i.e., isnads:


... the traditions of Muhammad as transmitted by his Companions and their Successors were, as a rule, scrupulously scrutinised at each step of the transmission, and that the so called phenomenal growth of Tradition in the second and third centuries of Islam was not primarily growth of content, so far as the hadith of Muhammad and the hadith of the Companions are concerned, but represents largely the progressive increase in parallel and multiple chains of transmission.[11]

Take a highly simplified example of one Companion narrating a single hadith from the Prophet to two students: these students themselves teaching that narration again to two pupils each and so on until we reach the time of al-Bukhari and his contemporaries. We will find that in al-Bukhari's generation at least 16 individuals will be hearing the hadith from their respective teachers. Because each individual chain of transmission counts as a separate hadith, what started out as a single narration transmitted by one Companion only, has evolved within a short period of time to 16 ahadith; an increase of 1600%. The true nature of affairs, however, being far greater, with a far greater number of Companions transmitting a far greater number of narrations to a far greater number of students. This then is the form in which proliferation took place, the dispersion of narrators and chains of transmission. Using the mathematical application of geometric progression, Nabia Abbott concludes:

... using geometric progression, we find that one to two thousand Companions and senior Successors transmitting two to five traditions each would bring us well within the range of the total number of traditions credited to the exhaustive collections of the third century. Once it is realised that the isnad did, indeed, initiate a chain reaction that resulted in an explosive increase in the number of traditions, the huge numbers that are credited to Ibn Hanbal, Muslim and Bukhari seem not so fantastic after all.[12]

The implications of explosive increase in of the isnad is dealt with here.

3. Imam Muslim & The Nature Of His Collection
Imam Muslim along the similar lines to that of Imam al-Bukhari , is reported to have said:

The translation of which is:

[...]. Imam Muslim said: "I have not included in my present book any thing but with proof [regarding authenticity] , and I have not left out anything but with proof". He also said: I did not include everything that I judge authentic/Sahih, I only included what received a unanimous agreement, i.e., what fulfilled all the criteria of authenticity agreed upon [by the scholars].

And Muslim has presented [his collection] to the scholars of his time, like Imam Abu Zar`ah, and retained what was void of defect, and left out what had some defect.[13]

From the above quotation, it is clear that Imam Muslim's collection is also a partial collection of authentic material and not a partially authentic collection of material. He followed a certain set of criteria that demanded a proof for the inclusion of each and every hadith in his collection.

4. Conclusions
Imam al-Bukhari's collection of ahadith was maintained to be authentic on account of his authority, and it has been maintained as authentic ever since. The missionaries' assertion, that Imam al-Bukhari regarded almost 99% of his own collection as spurious, is among the most rash and foolhardy statements ever dared by Christian missionaries. On the contrary, the 7,397 refers to the number of hadiths that Imam al-Bukhari chose to include in his Al-Jami` and left out many authentic narrations from his vast collection for the fear of excessive length.

Again, according to the Vargo:

In fact, it is difficult, in spite of the Muslim "science" of Hadith to know which traditions are strong or weak!

We should wonder whether the neophyte is as quick to demonstrate the same puerile enthusiasm over the question of his own religious texts. Regardless, we will quote the famous trial of Imam al-Bukhari to show how maqlub[14] (changed, reversed) ahadith can be identified with ease by a scholar of hadith:

The famous trial of al-Bukhari by the scholars of Baghdad provides a good example of a Maqlub isnad. The traditionists, in order to test their visitor, al-Bukhari, appointed ten men, each with ten ahadith. Now, each hadith (text) of these ten people was prefixed with the isnad of another. Imam al-Bukhari listened to each of the ten men as they narrated their ahadith and denied the correctness of every hadith. When they had finished narrating these ahadith, he addressed each person in turn and recounted to him each of his ahadith with its correct isnad. This trial earned him great honour among the scholars of Baghdad.[15]

Finally, it is worth citing a significant trend in modern Western scholarship of the Prophetic traditions of Islam. For the past several decades, criticism of these traditions has been the Orientalist's whipping post, an opportunity to invalidate the traditions of Islam, which culminated in the work of Joseph Schacht, mentioned earlier. However, this position has practically been reversed in recent times, with the advent of academic honesty on the part of Western scholars. Professor John Esposito of Georgetown University has made the following counter-criticism of Schacht's traditional position:

Accepting Schacht's conclusion regarding the many traditions he did examine does not warrant its automatic extension to all the traditions. To consider all Prophetic traditions apocryphal until proven otherwise is to reverse the burden of proof. Moreover, even where differences of opinion exist regarding the authenticity of the chain of narrators, they need not detract from the authenticity of a tradition's content and common acceptance of the importance of tradition literature as a record of the early history and development of Islamic belief and practice.[16]

The position of Esposito perhaps reflects the growing attitude among Western educational institutions that entertain any study of Islam and its traditions. This is simply evidenced by the fact that Professor Esposito has become one of the reigning authorities on Islam in the West, whose textbooks are considered university standards for courses on Islam.

Considering the missionaries' abuse of hadiths to denigrate the Prophet(P) of Islam, it would be too generous to assume that Vargo, Shorrosh, Geisler and Abdul Saleeb "misunderstood" the nature of the collection of Imam al-Bukhari. As for the Rand Corporation's report, their "objectivity" lies in the unverified use of source material. An honest misunderstanding entails at least some understanding of the issue, which doesn't even seem to be their case. Perhaps the Christian missionaries might consider beginning a genuine study of the science of hadith before they embarrasses themselves further.

Acknowledgements
We would like to thank Abu Hudhayfah for providing us necessary help and allowing us to use his material.

And Allah knows best!
Reply

Snowflake
07-25-2010, 11:21 PM
What's the origin of the kissing of the thumbs? I heard people do it because they believe Hazrat Adam saw the image of the Prophet (saw) in his thumbnails and kissed them out of respect? Ok, so even if that were true, why are people doing it now. They didn't see the image of rasulullah in their thumbs? Is sending darood not better than kissing the thumbs when hearing the prophet's name in adhaan or anytime. In fact that is what we should do. Also if people believe that story, do they wonder why the blessed prophet's image was shown on the left thumb - the hand we don't even eat with. Even if Adam was in Jannah at the time, Allah knew we were coming to earth, so I can't quite believe this story and I think kissing the thumbs looks funny and pointless.

Also when we do something out of love, we do it from our heart. Not by coping what someone else is doing.
Reply

Salahudeen
07-25-2010, 11:21 PM
The famous trial of al-Bukhari by the scholars of Baghdad provides a good example of a Maqlub isnad. The traditionists, in order to test their visitor, al-Bukhari, appointed ten men, each with ten ahadith. Now, each hadith (text) of these ten people was prefixed with the isnad of another. Imam al-Bukhari listened to each of the ten men as they narrated their ahadith and denied the correctness of every hadith. When they had finished narrating these ahadith, he addressed each person in turn and recounted to him each of his ahadith with its correct isnad. This trial earned him great honour among the scholars of Baghdad.[15]
amazing, scholars like Imam Bukhari had photographic memories you know, I think it was Imam shafi who would read a book and just looked at the pages to memorise it. He would cover 1 page while he memorised it and then he'd uncover the other page.

What's also amazing is that a book of hadith which was written in the time of the prophet pbuh by one of the students of abu Huraira was discovered, it contained a 130 hadith I think and the hadiths in this book were found in the famous 6 compilations like Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim
Reply

Salahudeen
07-25-2010, 11:23 PM
Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
What's the origin of the kissing of the thumbs? I heard people do it because they believe Hazrat Adam saw the image of the Prophet (saw) in his thumbnails and kissed them out of respect? Ok, so even if that were true, why are people doing it now. They didn't see the image of rasulullah in their thumbs? Is sending darood not better than kissing the thumbs when hearing the prophet's name in adhaan or anytime. In fact that is what we should do. Also if people believe that story, do they wonder why the blessed prophet's image was shown on the left thumb - the hand we don't even eat with. Even if Adam was in Jannah at the time, Allah knew we were coming to earth, so I can't quite believe this story and I think kissing the thumbs looks funny and pointless.

Also when we do something out of love, we do it from our heart. Not by coping what someone else is doing.
It's based upon a weak hadith I think. that narrates abu bakr did it not 100% sure though.
Reply

Zafran
07-25-2010, 11:26 PM
Originally Posted by squiggle
It's based upon a weak hadith I think. that narrates abu bakr did it not 100% sure though.
salaam

Yes your right

peace
Reply

Snowflake
07-25-2010, 11:27 PM
Originally Posted by squiggle
It's based upon a weak hadith I think. that narrates abu bakr did it not 100% sure though.
Fabricated more like...
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Insaanah
07-26-2010, 09:06 AM
Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
Fabricated more like...
:sl:

Jazaakallah khayr sister. Hanafi scholars have declared it as such as well:

http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/kthumb1.htm

:sl:
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piXie
07-26-2010, 11:41 AM
Originally Posted by **muslimah**
I understood Celebrating Birthdays [in general] to be a sin [an imitation of the disbelievers] but not a Bid'ah [innovation in religion] because people don't consider them a part of Islam. However, the Prophet :arabic5: birthday is considered by some to be a part of Islam to celebrate it - therefore that would be a Bid'ah. Allahu 'alim.
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AabiruSabeel
07-26-2010, 03:29 PM
:sl:


At the outset, it is important for us to understand what is Bid'ah and what is not. The concept of Bid'ah in the Shari'ah is an in-depth article on this.
Muhammad ibn al-Muthanna narrated to me: ‘Abd al-Wahhab ibn ‘Abd al-Majid narrated to us: from Ja’far ibn Muhammad: from his father: from Jabir ibn ‘Abd Allah, he said: When Allah’s Messenger (Allah bless him and grant him peace) would deliver a sermon, his eyes became red, his voice rose, and his anger intensified, so it was as though he was warning against an army, saying, “The [enemy] has made a morning attack on you and an evening attack on you.” He would say: “The Hour and I have been sent like these two” and would join his forefinger and middle finger. And he would say: “As for what follows. The best of speech is the Book of Allah, and the best of guidance is the guidance of Muhammad. And the most evil of affairs are their innovations; and every bid’ah is misguidance.” He would further say: “I am dearer to a Muslim than his self. And one who left behind property, that is for his family. And he who left a debt or children, that is [given] to me and [their responsibility] is on me.” (Sahih Muslim)

... continue reading here
Im really confused about the 15th Shaban. ...
Historically, jurists have differed over whether the 15th night of Sha‘ban has any distinctive merit or not. Some uphold its merit and consider the night to be laylat al-bara’ah- “the Night of Emancipation [from the Fire].” Other scholars are of the opinion that the night in question has no merit or distinction at all over any other night of the year. Based on these two views, the first group of jurists rule that singling-out the night for the performance of superogatory acts of devotion - prayer (salat), invocation (dhikr), supplication (du’a), etc - is sanctioned by the Sacred Law and is meritorious. The latter group declare that, laudable as the intention may be, to specify the night for acts of worship and devotion is not sanctioned by the Sacred Law, or shari‘ah, at all.
Fusing over the 15th of Sha'ban is another excellent treatise explaining why such differences have arisen in this issue, and how each stance has its legitimacy in the canons of Islamic jurisprudence.
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
07-26-2010, 03:57 PM
:sl:

We should understand that in regards to a lot of what is being called Bid'ah nowadays, in reality the issues are not as black and white as they're being put out to be. There have been differences of opinions in our history amongst the jurists regarding a lot of these issues and we should learn, understand, and appreciate these differences of opinions and be tolerant in regards to them, especially if one of our brothers or sisters holds an opinion different than ours unless the issue is a clear cut bid'ah. For example, regarding the 15th of Sha'ban, some would like to read what Ibn Taymiyyah said on the matter:

وسئل عن صلاة نصف شعبان؟

فأجاب:
...
إذا صلى الإنسان ليلة النصف وحده، أو في جماعة خاصة كما كان يفعل طوائف من السلف، فهو أحسن. وأما الاجتماع في المساجد على صلاة مقدرة. كالاجتماع على مائة ركعة، بقراءة ألف {قُلْ هُوَ اللَّهُ أَحَدٌ} [سورة الإخلاص ]، دائما، فهذا بدعة، لم يستحبها أحد من الأئمة. والله أعلم.

“One inquired regarding the prayer for the 15th of Sha`ban.

Answer:

If a person were to pray on the 15th Night, whether alone or in specific congregation, as did groups form the early generations, then this is good. Yet, regarding the assembly in the Masjid such as an assembly for 100 units of prayer always reciting “Qul huw-Allahu Ahad” [Surat al-Ikhlas] one thousand times, then this is an innovation. No one from the Ummah has sanctioned it as meritorious. Allah knows best.”
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
07-26-2010, 04:10 PM
Secondly, we need to be able to prioritize and weigh the benefits and harms in forbidding someone from doing an innovation. During the time of Imam Ahmad, the people used to decorate the mushafs, and he disliked it yet he let them continue to decorate the mushafs and didnt forbid them from it because he realized that if he were to forbid them from spending their money and time on decorating the mushafs, they would instead use that time and money for something worse. Regarding the Milad, Ibn Taymiyyah uses the same logic and because of that, even though he acknowledges that it is is bid'ah, he lets the common people do it because, i) they will get rewarded for their intention of loving the Messenger (saw) and ii) they would otherwise spend that time/money on something that can be potentially worse for them. So in the interests of preventing the greater harm, the smaller harm is allowed to continue.

So we need to realize the situation, the time and place (zamaan wa makaan), and the specific individuals that are being dealt with, and then use wisdom in dealing with the entire situation. It isn't always wise to go up to people and forbid the evil because sometimes it can result in an evil greater than that which was being committed. This type of wisdom is not something that can be learnt in school or university, it's something that one learns over time. That's why these kinds of threads and fatwas that are copied and pasted everywhere don't make sense because theyre general and they don't take into account the specific people that are being given it. One of scholars said something profound that is worthy of being reflected upon deeply: "The blood which you read is black and cold, and the blood which you are speaking to is red and warm." - Meaning that the blood (read: ink) in the fatawa and scholarly books that you're reading is black and cold, whereas the persons you are talking to and giving a ruling to are real people with real specific situations, i.e. their blood is red and warm. You cannot just take that which is black and cold and give it to that which is red and warm. You need to transform it in a way that is suitable for the individual.
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Sister Unknown
07-26-2010, 04:29 PM
Every bid'ah is in Hellfire, including "bida'ah hasana." How? The concept of al-Qadr answers my question. As humans, we do not know what is good, nor bad. We act "blindly" upon the reveliation. I woulds have never imagined that shirk is the biggest sin. Why is it? If you follow any other being besides Allah, or their knowlege (everything except Allah is not perfect) where will you end up?

ISLAM IS THE Qur'aan. Islam is the Sunna, and Islam is the consensus of scholars. Any other dumb fussiness people fight over, only pleases the disbelievers.

Let's not be proud of our divisions and hide them from the disbelieving folks.
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Zafran
07-26-2010, 05:15 PM
Salaam

Tolerance is the key.

peace
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aadil77
07-26-2010, 05:22 PM
I understand what the mods are saying, these innovations shouldn't be a reason to create division amongst muslims. What I find is that islam would be alot more simpler and easier to practice if we left out all the additions to it and things that are doubtful. If you ever go to an arab/salafi masjid - everything is so much simpler compared to majority of UK masjids, you're not constantly worrying whether certain practices are bida'h and should be avoided as everything seems to be strictly from what we have been given - the Quran and sunnah.
Reply

Salahudeen
07-26-2010, 05:24 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
I understand what the mods are saying, these innovations shouldn't be a reason to create division amongst muslims. What I find is that islam would be alot more simpler and easier to practice if we left out all the additions to it and things that are doubtful. If you ever go to an arab/salafi masjid - everything is so much simpler compared to majority of UK masjids, you're not constantly worrying whether certain practices are bida'h and should be avoided as everything seems to be strictly from what we have been given - the Quran and sunnah.
I know what you mean, I have experiences this, like I went to 1 masjid and after salah they all started doing dhikr really loud and the imam made a long congregational dua and he did this after every single salah.

Then I started to think did the prophet (saw) and his companions do this after every salah loud dhikr and congregational dua. then I became worried to pray there.
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aadil77
07-26-2010, 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by squiggle
I know what you mean, I have experiences this, like I went to 1 masjid and after salah they all started doing dhikr really loud and the imam made a long congregational dua and he did this after every single salah.

Then I started to think did the prophet (saw) and his companions do this after every salah loud dhikr and congregational dua. then I became worried to pray there.
Exactly you can form the wrong views of Rasulullah and his companions, this was standard for me when I was young as every masjid I went to was a brelvi masjid, then when I moved to leicester, I noticed how the deobandi masjids hardly did any of that stuff, then when I went to the masjid at my uni (run by arab salafi's) I noticed how they did even less stuff that is done at deobandi masjids. So basically you learn that some groups are not so strict to sunnah and some are, but Alhamdulillah we're all fairly close to true islam and no where near as deviant as the shia's.
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Dagless
07-26-2010, 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by Insane Insaan
Laylat al-Nusf min Sha’baan (the middle of Sha’baan) should not be singled out for worship


Source
edit: Found it - http://www.islamqa.com/en/cat/2038
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Snowflake
07-26-2010, 10:53 PM
I'm very confused... so is shabrat bidah or not? Or bidah if made compulsory? Or the bidah is in how it's celebrated? I just read that weak hadith are valid if they are used to better the character/do good deeds. Everything has just gone to my head. The more I read the more confused I get. If that's not bad enough mum was angry with me for saying it's an innovation earlier :(

Edit: I do understand the English but still gets confused because the evidence are strong on both sides.
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Snowflake
07-26-2010, 11:05 PM
Found this on another forum... :-\

A Night of excellence in the Month of Shaban

As most of you must be aware the month of Shaban has arrived, it is the month which the Prophet [Peace be upon him] fasted most other than the month of Ramadan, and this is established from many authentic hadiths, among them is the following Hadith;

The Mother of the Believers Aisha [May Allah be pleased with her] said: “The Messenger of Allah [Peace be upon him] used to fast until we thought he would never break his fast, and not fast until we thought he would never fast. I never saw the Messenger of Allah [Peace be upon him fasting for an entire month except in Ramadan, and I never saw him fast more than he did in Shaban. [1]

There are many articles written on the virtues of Shaban, the focus on this article is the mid night of this month, which as we will see is regarded as vitreous by the scholars in light of the Sunnah.

Concerning the night of mid-Shaban Ibn Taymiyya wrote:

[Some] said there is no difference between this and other nights of the year. However, the opinion of many of the people of learning and that of the majority of our [Hanbali] colleagues and other than them is that it is a night of superior merit, and this is what is indicated by the words of Ahmad [ibn Hanbal], in view of the many hadiths transmitted about it and in light of what confirms this in the words and deeds transmitted from the early generations (al-athar al-salafiyya). Some of its merits have been transmitted in the books of Hadith of the types Musnad and Sunnan. This holds true even if other things have been forged concerning it. [2]

Similarly al-Suyyuti said:

“As for the night of mid-Sha’ban it has great merit and it is desirable (mustahab) to spend part of it in [supererogatory] worship.” [3]

This night is also regarded highly by the Scholars of the Deoband;

Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi writes “Its significance is this that 15th night and 15th day of this month are very blessed ones. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), urged Muslims to stay up during the night and fast during the day. At this night the prophet used to go to the graveyard of Madinah and prayed for the dead. Therefore, it is desirable that the Muslims should pray during that night and fast during the following day. They should also seek the forgiveness of their dead either by reciting the Qur’an or by feeding the hungry or by giving the money in charity or by just praying for them.” [4]

Mufti Taqi Uthmani writes: “Another significant feature of the month of Sha'ban is that it consists of a night which is termed in Shariah as "Laylatul-bara'ah" (The night of freedom from Fire). This is the night occurring between 14th and 15th day of Sha'ban. There are certain traditions of Prophet Muhammad, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, to prove that it is a meritorious night in which the people of the earth are attended by special Divine mercy.” [5]

These positions are based on the following evidences:

Mu'adh ibn Jabal [May Allah be pleased with him] reports that Prophet [Peace be upon him] said: “Allah looks at his creation on the night of mid-Shaban and He forgives all his creation except for the idolater and the one bent on hatred.” [6]

The Mother of the Believers Aisha [May Allah be pleased with her] reports I missed the Prophet one night so I went out to al-Baqi` (and found him). He said: "Were you afraid that Allah would wrong you and that His Prophet would wrong you?" I said: "O Messenger of Allah, I thought that you might have gone to visit one of your wives." He said: "Allah Glorious and Exalted descends to the nearest heaven on the night of mid-Shaban and He forgives to more people than the number of hairs on the hides of the sheep of the tribes of Kalb [7]

Abd Allah ibn `Amr [May Allah be pleased with him] reports that Prophet [Peace be upon him] said “Allah looks upon His creatures on the night of mid-Shaban and He forgives all His servants except two: one intent on hatred, and the homicide.” [8]

The Mother of the Believers Aisha [May Allah be pleased with her] reports, "The Prophet stood up in prayer during part of the night and made his prostration so lengthy that I thought his soul had been taken back. When I saw this I got up and went to move his big toe, whereupon he moved, so I drew back. When he raised his head from prostration and finished praying, he said: "O `A'isha, O fair little one (humayra')! Did you think that the Prophet had broken his agreement with you?" She replied: "No, by Allah, O Messenger of Allah, but I thought that your soul had been taken back because your stayed in prostration for so long." He said: "Do you know what night this is?" She said: "Allah and His Prophet know best." He said: "This is the night of mid-Sha`ban! Verily Allah the Glorious and Majestic look at His servants on the night of mid-Sha`ban, and He forgives those who ask forgiveness, and He bestows mercy on those who ask mercy, and He gives a delay to the people of envy and spite in their state." [9]

Ali ibn Abi Talib [May Allah be pleased with him] reports that the Prophet [Peace be upon him] is reported to have said: “The night of mid-Shaban, let all of you spend in prayer and its day in fasting, for Allah descends to the nearest heaven during that night beginning with sunset and says: ‘Is there no one asking sustenance that I may forgive them? Is there no one asking sustenance that I may grant them sustenance? Is there no one under duress that I may relieve them? Is there not such-and-such, is there not such-and-such, a so forth until dawn rises’”[10]

Although this narration is weak, when other factors are taken into consideration, the validity of fasting on 15th Shaban becomes established although it should not be deemed as a Sunnah, rather it is somewhat desirable. [Read footnote 10]

Shaykh Abdul Qadir al-Gilani recommended the following modality in his Ghunya:

“As for the ritual prayer traditional for the night of mid-Shaban, it consists of one hundred cycles, including one thousand repetitions of Qul Huwa Allahu Ahad (that is to say, ten recitations in each rak’a). This prayer is called Salat al-Khayr, and its blessings are many and varied. Our righteous predecessors used to gather to perform it in congregation. It contains much merit and rich reward. It is reported of al-Hasan [al=Basri], may Allah be well-pleased with him, that he said: ‘Thirty of the companions of the Messenger of Allah [Peace be upon him] related to me that Allah will look seventy times upon one who performs this prayer on this night, and with each glance He will fulfill seventy of that persons needs, the last of them being forgiveness.’” [11]

Shaikh Gibril Haddad writes:

“Also among those who wrote on the immense merits of the night of mid-Shaban are al-Haythami, Abd al-Ra’uf al-Munawi, Mulla Ali al-Qari, al-Sunhuri al-Maliki, Nur al-Din al-Bayruti, al-Kawthari, al-Ghumari, and Muhammad Hasnayn Makhluf” [12]

May Allah grant us the ability to benefit from this Month and reap the benefits of the night of mid-Shaban.

[1] Narrated by al-Bukhârî, no. 1833; Muslim, no. 1956

[2] Ibn Taymiyya Iqtida al-Sirat al-Mustaqim (1369/1950 ed. P 302) translation by Shaikh Gibril Haddad in his Sunnah Notes (Vol 1, p. 208)

[3] Al-Suyyuti, Haqiqat al-Sunna wal-Bida wa al-Amr bil-itiba wal-Nahi an al-Ibtida (1405/1985
ed. P. 85) translation by Shaikh Gibril Haddad in his Sunnah Notes (Vol 1, p. 208)

[4] Ashraf Ali Thanvi in his Bahishti Zewar (Heavenly Ornaments), part 6, pp 61-62

[5] Mufti Taqi Uthmani in his article entitles Sha'ban: Merits, Do's, and Dont's

[6] Narrated by Ibn Hibban (12:481) with a sound chain according to al-Arna’ut and al-Haythami
who said that Tabarani also narrated it in his Kabir and Awsat with chains containing only trustworthy narrators, that is: sound (sahih) chains; Ibn Khuzayma included it in his Sahih, which has the same level of acceptance among the experts as Sahih Muslim; and even Albani included it in his Silsila sahiha.

[7] Narrated from Aisha by Ahmad, Ibn Majah, and al-Tirmidhi who said that he heard al-Bukhari grading this Hadith as weak because some of the sub-narrators did not narrate directly from each other.

[8] Narrated from Abd Allah ibn Amr by al-Tirmidhi, Ahmad and al Bazzar with a chain he graded fair (hasan) through the great Tabi’I jurist al-Qasim ibn Muhammad ibn bi Bakr al-Siddiq.

[9] Narrated from Aisha by al-Bayhaqi in Shu’ab al Iman (3:382) where he comments: “This hadith is missing the Companion in its chain, and is a good Hadith (hadha mursal jayyid). It is probable that al-Ala’ibn al-Harith took it from Makhul and Allah knows best.”

[10] Narrated from Ali by Ahmed and Ibn Majah with a chain containing Ibn Abi Sabra, Mufti Taqi Uthmani says regarding the authenticity of this hadith This Hadith is recorded by Ibn Majah in his Sunan, one of the famous six books of Hadith, and also by Baihaqi in his famous book Shu'ab-al-'iman'. Both of them have reported it without any comment about its authenticity. But after a critical analysis of its chain of narrators it is found that this tradition is mainly based on the report of Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Saburah whose narrations cannot be relied upon. That is why the scholars of Hadith have declared it as a weak (da'if) tradition. However, the allegation that the narrator of this Hadith i.e. Abu Bakr ibn Abi Saburah, is a fabricator who used to coin forged traditions does not seem correct. In fact, he was mufti of Madinah, a well-known jurist and he was appointed as a qadi (Judge) of Iraq in the days of Mansur and was succeeded in this office by Imam Abu Yousuf. He was a colleague of Imam Malik.

Once Mansur, the Abbasi Caliph, asked Imam Malik referred to three names, and one of them was that of Ibn Abi Saburah. Had he been a fabricator, Imam Malik would have never referred to his name in this context. But despite his high position among the jurists, his memory was not of the standard required for the uthenticity of a tradition. That is why most of the critics of Hadith like Imam Bukhari etc. Have held him as weak, but did not declare him a fabricator. Only Imam Ahmed is reported to have remarked about him that he fabricates Hadith. But this remark alone is not sufficient to hold him as a fabricator, for two reasons: Firstly Imam Ahmed was born long after him, and his contemporary scholars never held him as such, secondly the Arabic words used by Imam Ahmed are some times used for confusing one tradition with another, and not for deliberate fabrication.

This is the reason why the majority of the scholars of Hadith have held Abu Bakr ibn Abi Saburah as a weak reporter of Hadith, but they did not declare him as a forger or fabricator. Now, coming to his tradition about the fast of the 15th Ramadan it is held by the scholars to be weak but i have not come across an authentic scholar who has treated it as a fabricated (Mawdu) Hadith. There are a number of books indicating the fabricated Ahadith, but this tradition is not included in these books as fabricated.

It is well-known that Ibn Majah consists of about twenty Ahadith held to be fabricated. The list of these fabricated AHadith is available, but the tradition in question is not included therein.
Therefore, the correct position is that this Hadith is not fabricated. However, being reported by a weak narrator, it cannot be relied upon in the matter of the injunctions of Shariah. Thus, the fast of the 15th of Shabaan cannot be termed as Sunnah or Mustahab in the strict sense of the term. Nevertheless, it may be advisable to fast in the 15th of Shabaan without taking it as Sunnah for several reasons:

Firstly it is fully established through a large number of Ahadith that the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.) has emphasized on the merits of fasting in Shabaan, and particularly in the first half of the month. The 15th day of Shabaan, being the last day of the first half, is included in the preferable days for fasting.

Secondly, the merits of the 15th night of Shabaan is established by more than a dozen Ahadith. It means that this night should be spent in prayers and other forms of worship. On the other hand, all the blessed nights which the Muslims are advised to spend in worship are generally followed by fasting on the coming day like in the Laylatul-Qadr, where fasting on the following day is obligatory, or like the first night Zilhijjah where fasting on the following days is optional, rather advisable. on this analogy, too, the 15th night of Shabaan may be followed by an optional fasting on the following day.

Thirdly, the tradition relating to the merits of fasting on 15th of Shabaan is, no doubt, a weak tradition, not competent to prove this practice to be a Sunnah or a formal Mustahabb, but it can be acted upon as a measure of precaution, provided that the practice is not taken as Sunnah or a formal Mustahabb. It is for these reasons that some Ulama and elders have been fasting on the 15th of Shabaan and have been taking it an advisable practice.

[11] Shaykh Abdul Qadir al-Gilani, Ghunya cited in Shaikh Gibril Haddads Sunnah Notes Volume 1 (p. 210)
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
07-26-2010, 11:09 PM
Aslaamu`Alaaykum. . .

Okay i once got told that reciting "Sadakal Allah al Azeem" at the end of Recitation is Bidah, could someone please Confirm InshaAllaah?

Sorry if i havent bought no ref i was thinking maybe anyone on this thread can answer? Sorry and please do not be angry if ive said anything wrong or without knowledge .

Wa`Alaaykum Salaam
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Snowflake
07-26-2010, 11:12 PM
JazakAllah khayr for trying to help me brother. I remember one we're to follow the majority. Is that correct? Anyway I'm off to pray. Just in case. :(
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Zafran
07-27-2010, 12:39 AM
Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
JazakAllah khayr for trying to help me brother. I remember one we're to follow the majority. Is that correct? Anyway I'm off to pray. Just in case. :(
Salaam

sister welcome to Islam. Topics like Bida, Mawlid, Twassul etc are all topics where there are debates over as scholars have different opnions on the issues.

peace
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
07-27-2010, 05:06 AM
Originally Posted by aadil77
I understand what the mods are saying, these innovations shouldn't be a reason to create division amongst muslims. What I find is that islam would be alot more simpler and easier to practice if we left out all the additions to it and things that are doubtful. If you ever go to an arab/salafi masjid - everything is so much simpler compared to majority of UK masjids, you're not constantly worrying whether certain practices are bida'h and should be avoided as everything seems to be strictly from what we have been given - the Quran and sunnah.
You see, the ideal itself is noble, but the issues are not as simplistic as that and to make them that simplistic and black and white is a mistake as it ignores 1400 years of juristic differences amongst the scholars. There is a legal maxim that the jurists follow: "lā inkār fī masāil al-khilāf" - there can be no censuring in issues of [legitimate] differing - and some of these issues are legitimate differences of opinion such as the night of the 15th of Sha'ban that surprisingly many of the giants of early Islamic scholarship held it was a night of virtue.

Ibn Taymiyyah says in his Iqtidā al-Sirāt al-Mustaqim:
"Also under this heading is the middle night of Sha‘bān. Hadiths traceable to the Prophet are reported about its merit, as well as precedents from the early predecessors, proving that the night has a distinction: with some among the predecessors specifying the night for prayer. But some Medinian scholars among the predecessors, and others from the later scholars, rejected its merit and took issue with the narrations related in this regard, such as the hadith: “Allah is more forgiving than there are the number of hairs [on the hides] of the sheep [in the tribes] of Kalb.” They stated that there is no difference between this and any other night. However, what many of the learned hold, or most of them - among our collegues and others - is that it is a night of superior merit. And this is what is indicated by the words of Ahmad [b. Hanbal] in light of the many hadiths transmitted about it, and what attests to this of the precedents recorded from the predecessors. Some of its merits are narrated in the musnad and sunan collections; this holds true even if other things have been fabricated concerning it.”
http://web.mac.com/jawziyyah/The_Jaw...les/Shaban.pdf

So the point is at the end of the day as follows. People break their ties of brotherhood over this and that's a major problem because the issue is not that important as keeping the ties of brotherhood is. To say "you're wrong because I have a fatwa from Islam QA that says this" and a reply of "I'm right because my scholar said this" isn't gonna get us anywhere and will only end up harming the community. We need to realize that the issues are not black and white and the jurists have legitimately differed over thousands of issues in the past and we cannot simplify and talk down to our community by spoon feeding them. We need to talk up to them and provide dissertations that can establish a dynamic scholarly understanding of these issues. Last thing we need is a community filled with people that go around brandishing fatawa and shoving them down peoples throats - it doesn't benefit anyone and the masses are left dumb.
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Snowflake
07-27-2010, 10:35 AM
Originally Posted by Zafran
Salaam

sister welcome to Islam. Topics like Bida, Mawlid, Twassul etc are all topics where there are debates over as scholars have different opnions on the issues.

peace
I'm not new to islam brother. But scholarly disputes of this level in islam are new to me. I read many arguments for and against, and with each I swung back and forth like a pendulum gone mad. Maybe that on it's own would not have upset me as I would carried on reading until the matter was a 100% clear to me. It was the fact that earlier yesterday I had upset my mother by saying there's no evidence to celebrate the 15th Shaban. I swear by Allah I felt the most scary feeling ever. It was as if I could feel Allah's displeasure falling on me like arrows. As the night progressed, I felt out of place as if I should be celebrating Shaban. I felt myself inclined to go and pray, and after bro caller's reply I couldn't resist the pull any longer and went to prepare to spend the night in Ibadah. Al hamdulillah, I knew I'd done the right thing. I cannot stress enough how much at peace I now feel. Allahu akbar!


:wa:
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Snowflake
07-27-2010, 10:39 AM
Originally Posted by мυѕℓιмαн 4 ℓιfє
Aslaamu`Alaaykum. . .

Okay i once got told that reciting "Sadakal Azeem" at the end of Recitation is Bidah, could someone please Confirm InshaAllaah?

Sorry if i havent bought no ref i was thinking maybe anyone on this thread can answer? Sorry and please do not be angry if ive said anything wrong or without knowledge .

Wa`Alaaykum Salaam
Same here ukhti. I find it strange to not say it as to me it's a beautiful way of ending a recitation. We're not doing it because we think it's compulsory, but because we love Allah's kalaam and our hearts are affirming that Allah's Word is true. I say carry on saying it as long as you don't think it's fardh to say it. Sometimes I say 'Ameen' instead. :)
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
07-27-2010, 10:47 AM
^Yeah samere, i dont say "Sadakal Allah al Azeem" no more, since i got told its Bidah, but Allaah knows best and may he forgive me

It itself means "God Almighty speaks the truth" inshaAllaah correct me if im incorrect. . .
Reply

Dagless
07-27-2010, 01:54 PM
Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
It was the fact that earlier yesterday I had upset my mother by saying there's no evidence to celebrate the 15th Shaban. I swear by Allah I felt the most scary feeling ever. It was as if I could feel Allah's displeasure falling on me like arrows. As the night progressed, I felt out of place as if I should be celebrating Shaban. I felt myself inclined to go and pray, and after bro caller's reply I couldn't resist the pull any longer and went to prepare to spend the night in Ibadah. Al hamdulillah, I knew I'd done the right thing. I cannot stress enough how much at peace I now feel. Allahu akbar!


:wa:
I did almost the same, apart from I didn't do any extra worship or go to mosque like some friends. Anyway, later on that night I was watching the Islam channel and this exact same question was posed. The Sheikh gave a similar answer to islamqa.com in that there was no evidence for it.
The way I see it... if later in life I realise this day is actually important then I did nothing wrong since its optional anyway. I was only acting based on the information available to me, and not following others based on tradition.
(Insha'Allah)
Reply

ardianto
07-27-2010, 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by Sister Unknown
Every bid'ah is in Hellfire, including "bida'ah hasana."
:sl:

Imam Shafi'i rahimahullah said "There are two kinds of bid'ah. Bid'ah hasanah and bid'ah dlolalah". And his daleel (argument) in made statement about bid'ah hasanah was statement from Umar ibn Khattab radiallahu anhu about salah taraweeh "The best bid'ah is this".

Bid'ah hasanah is innovation that innovated by sahaba. Also innovation that has basis in Qur'an, Hadith/sunnah, or ijma of sahabah. Salah taraweeh is bid'ah hasanah.
Bid'ah dlolalah is bidah that has no basis in (or against) Qur'an, hadith/sunnah, or ijma of sahabah.

But later, there are many people who make new innovations in ibadah and clasify those as bid'ah hasanah, although those bid'ah actually bid'ah dlolalah. They quote statement from Imam Shafi'i rahimahullah but reject daleel behind his statement.

So, Imam Shafi'i rahimahullah was not wrong with his statement about bid'ah hasanah. However, people who innovate bid'ah dlolalah and clasify that as bid'ah hasanah are wrong.

But of course, there is another opinion that say if bid'ah hasanah does not exist.
Reply

Sister Unknown
07-27-2010, 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
:sl:

Imam Shafi'i rahimahullah said "There are two kinds of bid'ah. Bid'ah hasanah and bid'ah dlolalah". And his daleel (argument) in made statement about bid'ah hasanah was statement from Umar ibn Khattab radiallahu anhu about salah taraweeh "The best bid'ah is this".

Bid'ah hasanah is innovation that innovated by sahaba. Also innovation that has basis in Qur'an, Hadith/sunnah, or ijma of sahabah. Salah taraweeh is bid'ah hasanah.
Bid'ah dlolalah is bidah that has no basis in (or against) Qur'an, hadith/sunnah, or ijma of sahabah.

But later, there are many people who make new innovations in ibadah and clasify those as bid'ah hasanah, although those bid'ah actually bid'ah dlolalah. They quote statement from Imam Shafi'i rahimahullah but reject daleel behind his statement.

So, Imam Shafi'i rahimahullah was not wrong with his statement about bid'ah hasanah. However, people who innovate bid'ah dlolalah and clasify that as bid'ah hasanah are wrong.

But of course, there is another opinion that say if bid'ah hasanah does not exist.
Akhi, I have not read what you've writtten since it's kind of long. If we were all to choose a particular shaykh .... Let me ask you, how do you know what is bid'ah hasana?

Respected imams, every scholar makes mistakes. Who ever says that any scholar doesn't make a mistake, is against my logical and it is impossible. Thus, their work is left to the ulma, and not a bucnh of laypeople.





This is why it is reported on the Imaam of Daar-ul-Hijrah (Madeenah), Imaam Maalik Ibn Anas, may Allaah have mercy on him, that he said: "Whosoever introduces into Islaam an innovation, which he deems is good, then he has claimed that Muhammad (saws) has betrayed (the trust of conveying) the Message. Read the saying of Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic: 'This day I have completed your Religion for you, and I have perfected My favor upon you, and I am pleased with Islaam as a Religion for you.' [Surat-ul-Maa’idah:3] So whatever was not (part of) the Religion on that day, is not (part of) the Religion on this day. And the last part of this ummah (nation) will not be rectified, except by that which rectified its first part."


p up 1 -

Narated By Anas bin Malik : A group of three men came to the houses of the wives of the Prophet asking how the Prophet worshipped (Allah), and when they were informed about that, they considered their worship insufficient and said, "Where are we from the Prophet as his past and future sins have been forgiven." Then one of them said, "I will offer the prayer throughout the night forever." The other said, "I will fast throughout the year and will not break my fast." The third said, "I will keep away from the women and will not marry forever." Allah's Apostle came to them and said, "Are you the same people who said so-and-so? By Allah, I am more submissive to Allah and more afraid of Him than you; yet I fast and break my fast, I do sleep and I also marry women. So he who does not follow my tradition in religion, is not from me (not one of my followers)." (See also Saheeh Muslim, Book 008, Hadith Number 3236)



"Truly, what is lawful is evident, and what is unlawful is evident, and in between the two are matters which are doubtful which many people do not know. He who guards against doubtful things keeps his religion and honour blameless, and he who indulges in doubtful things indulges in fact in unlawful things, just as a shepherd who pastures his flock round a preserve will soon pasture them in it. Beware, every king has a preserve, and the things Allah has declared unlawful are His preserves. Beware, in the body there is a flesh; if it is sound, the whole body is sound, and if it is corrupt, the whole body is corrupt, and behold, it is the heart."

[Al-Bukhari & Muslim]


If we all added to the religion, Islam would vanish.
Reply

AhmadibnNasroon
07-27-2010, 04:15 PM
Assalamu 3laykum,

I think I've sat back and allowed this nonsense to go on for too long. If anyone doesn't like it, tough....

1- There is no such thing as bid3ah hasanah where the deen is concerned. The Prophet sallallaahu alayhi'wa'salam said, "Verily the best speech is Allah's speech, the best guidance is the guidance of Muhammad (sallallaahu alayhi'wa'salam), and the worst matters are those innvovated, for every innovated matter is a bid3ah, and every bid3ah is an act of misguidance leading to the fire." - Saheeh Muslim from Jaabir ibn Abdillah

However there are two types of bid3ah

1- Bid3ah in 3ibaadah
2- Bid3ah in Mu'amalaat (everyday dealings)

The first type is restricted and there is no room for debate about it. So the mubtadi3a (innovater) is one who has two claims according to the 3ulemma, either he says

1- That Islam is incomplete which is a contradiction of the statement of Allah azza'wajal in Surah al Ma'idah ayat 3, "...This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâm as your religion."

2- That the Messenger did not deliver the deen properly and there is a need for its full understanding by our own intellects.

Let us understand that worship is based upon 2 conditions as mentioned by al hafidh ibn Kathir, Sh. al Islaam ibn Taymiyya and others

1- Niyyah (intention)
2- According to the Sunnah

It does not suffice us to do an act, statement, or belief of worship except that it is fulfilled by these conditions

Bro. Aadil, your statement concerning Imam a'Shafi3ee is a common one used by the people of innovation to fool the masses

Shaykh Sale7 al Fawzan refutes this claim by explaining it from the words of al Hafidh ibn Rajab al Hanbali in his Jaamiyyah Uloom wal Hakam

al-Haafidh Ibn Rajab al-Hanbalee says in Jaami'ul Uloom Wal Hikam (2/89) in commentary to the part of the hadeeth, "and beware of the newly invented matter."
"His saying, 'and beware of the newly invented matters, and every bid'ah is a misguidance' contains a warning to the ummah from following the newly invented innovations, and he stresed this by saying, 'and every innovation is a misguidance'. And the meaning of bid'ah is everything that is newly invented that has no basis in the share'ah that would prove it. As for that which has a basis in the share'ah that would prove it then this is not a bid'ah in the sharee'ah even if it be a bid'ah according to the language. And in the saheeh of Muslim from Jabir (radiyallahu 'anhu) from the Prophet that he used to say in his sermons, 'the best speech is the Book of Allaah, and the best guidance is the guidance of Muhammad, and the worst of matters are the newly invented matters and every bid'ah is a misguidance.'.And Imaam Ahmad reports from the report of Ghadeef Ibnul Haarith ash-Shimaalee, 'Abdul Malk Ibn Marwaan sent (someone) to me and he said: Indeed we gather the people for two matters: raising the hands (for supplication) upon the minbar on the day of Jumu'ah and giving exhortations after the fajr and 'asr prayers. So he said: As for these two matters, then they are examples of your innovations in my opinion and I will not accept anything of them from you because the Prophet sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam said, 'A people do not introduce an innovation except that the likes of it is raised from the sunnah (ie. forgotten and neglected) and sticking to the sunnah is better than innovatig an innovation.' And something similar is reported from Ibn 'Umar. And as for what has occurred from some of the Salaf in their declaring some bid'ahs to be good then this is regards to bid'ah in it's linguistic meaning not it's sharee'ah meaning, and from these is the saying of 'Umar radiallaahu 'anhu when he gathered the people for the standing of Ramadhaan behind one Imaam. He gives reasons as to why this is so, but these have already been mentioned in other articles, and some of them above, so I will not repeat them] And from them: the adhaan for jumu'ah that was increased on by 'Uthmaan due to the need of the people.and it is reported from ibn Umar that he said this was a bid'ah. And maybe he meant what his father meant concerning the standing during the month of Ramadhaan. And from them: collecting the mushaf as one book and the Prophet sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam used to command that the revelation be written and there is no difference in this between writing separately or as one collection, rather one collection has more benefit...[mentioning more examples]... And Abu Nu'aym reports with a chain of narration from Ibraaheem Ibn Junayd who said: I heard ash-Shaafi'ee saying: 'bid'ah is of two types..' And he depended upon the saying of 'Umar radiallaahu 'anhu, 'what a good bid'ah this is' and the meaning of ash-Shaafi'ee (rahimahullaah) is as we have mentioned previously: that the foundation for the blameworthy bid'ah is that which does not have a basis in the sharee'ah that can be referred to - and this is a bid'ah in the convention of the sharee'ah. As for the praiseworthy bid'ah then that is what agrees with the sunnah - meaning that is has a basis in the sunnah that can be referred to, and this is a 'bid'ah' in it's linguistic meaning not in it's sharee'ah meaning due to it's conforming with the sunnah. And another statement has been reported from ash-Shaafi'ee that explains this, and that is: 'newly invented matters are of two types.'" [end] So every innovation is a misguidance, contrary to what some may have you believe.


So using the example of Ameer'ul mu2mineen is not sufficient. Rather we must know that Salaat'ul Taraweeh was already established in the sharee3'ah by Muhammad sallallaahu alayhi'wa'salam. And this is established in The Book of Taraweeh in the Saheeh of Imam al Bukhari, is this not so?

As for the issue concerning Tawassul, Mawlud, then bro, Zafran, 3itaqillah. Stop posting Deobandi rhetoric just because it conforms to your culture/society and what you have been raised with. Rather remove the blinders of taqleed and ta3assub and see the bigger picture. Tawassul is debated, but the halal is clear and the haram is clear and it is known in Usool al Fiqh that we do not depend nor act upon weak ahadeeth as a general principal concerning the sharee3'ah. Especially when many of the ahadeeth that are being brought up here, are fabricated!

Concerning the middle of Sha3ban, then some posters are glorifying it and mentioning that we should act upon it, praying and fasting and the sort, and know that this is deviation. We shouldn't encourage this knowing full well that the ahadeeth are weak and the scholars of hadeeth have stated this.

I wont go further into it, rather read what some of the students of knowledge on the English Multaqa Forums explained, however if it gets too confusing, then I urge everyone to leave it because Br. Harris Hammam goes into Mustalah hadeeth

http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showt...ht=15th+shaban

I hope this helps...say NO to bid3ah
Reply

AhmadibnNasroon
07-27-2010, 04:16 PM
Also, please read the full explanation by Shaykh Sale7 al Fawzan on what I previously mentioned

Good Innovations



Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan hafidhahullaah


Translation and Footnotes by Maaz Qureshi








Whoever divides innovation [in the religion] into good innovation (bid'ah hasanah), and sinful innovation (bid'ah sayyi'ah), then he has committed wrong, and has opposed his sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam statement, "Every innovation is a misguidance", [1] because the Messenger sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam ruled that innovation - all of it - is misguidance, [2] and this says that not all innovation is misguidance, rather there is good innovation. Al-Haafidh Ibn Rajab said in his commentary to al Arba'een: 'So his sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam statement, "Every innovation is misguidance" is from the all encompassing word, not excluding from it anything. And it is the greatest principle from the principles of the Religion. And it is associated with hissallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam statement, "Whoever invents in this affair of ours, what is not from it, then it is rejected" So whoever invents things and attributes them to the religion, and it does not have an origin in the religion to return to, then it is misguidance, and the Religion is free from those things. And equal to that are matters of beliefs, or actions, or statements whether hidden, or manifest.' [end] [Jaami'ul 'Uloom Wal Hikam, p. 233] [3]

And there is not a proof for them that there is good innovation, except for the statement of 'Umar radiallaahu 'anhu regarding the taraaweeh prayer, "What a good innovation this is!" (ni'imatul bida'atu hadhihi).
And they also say, 'Verily there were things invented, and they were not objected to by the Salaf, like the collection of the Qur`aan into one book, and the writing of the Hadeeth, and recording them.' So the answer to these is that these are matters which have an origin in the law (shar'), so they are not newly invented. And the statement of 'Umar radiallaahu 'anhu "What a good innovation", he desires the linguistic innovation, and not the religious innovation (al bida'atush Shar'iyyah). So whatever has an origin in the law, returns to it. If it is said that it is an innovation, then it is an innovation in language, and not in Islaamic Law. So the religious innovation is what does not have an origin for it to return to. So the collecting of the Qur`an into one book has for it an origin in the law to return to, because the Prophet sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam had commanded the recording of the Qur`aan, but it was written scattered so the Companions collected it into one book for it's protection. Indeed the Prophet prayed taraaweeh with his Companions radiallaahu 'anhum nightly, and they had preferable fear about it in the appointment [of an Imaam], and the continuing of the Companions radiallaahu 'anhum in praying in separate groups in the lifetime of the Prophet and after his sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam passing, up until 'Umar Ibnul Khattaab united them on one Imaam like how they used to be behind the Prophet sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam, and this is not an innovation in the Religion. And the writing of the Hadeeth also has an origin for it in the Law. Indeed the Prophet sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam commanded the writing of some hadeeths for some of his Companions radiallaahu 'anhu, so as to study that from it. [4]
And there was warning against writing it on regular paper according to his sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam advice fearing that there would get mixed with the Qur`aan, that which was not from it. So when the Prophet sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam passed away, this warning was done away with - because the Qur`aan was completed, and vowelized before his sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam passing. So the Muslims recorded the hadeeth after that, preserving it from destruction. And may Allah reward Islaam and the Muslims with good when they preserve the Book of their Lord, and the Sunnah of their Prophet sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam from destruction, and the mockery of the scornful. [5]





Footnotes:


1. Many of the people of innovation say that the word 'kullu' in the hadeeth about innovated matters does not mean everything,
al-Haafidh Ibn Rajab al-Hanbalee says in Jaami'ul Uloom Wal Hikam (2/89) in commentary to the part of the hadeeth, "and beware of the newly invented matter."
"His saying, 'and beware of the newly invented matters, and every bid'ah is a misguidance' contains a warning to the ummah from following the newly invented innovations, and he stresed this by saying, 'and every innovation is a misguidance'. And the meaning of bid'ah is everything that is newly invented that has no basis in the share'ah that would prove it. As for that which has a basis in the share'ah that would prove it then this is not a bid'ah in the sharee'ah even if it be a bid'ah according to the language. And in the saheeh of Muslim from Jabir (radiyallahu 'anhu) from the Prophet that he used to say in his sermons, 'the best speech is the Book of Allaah, and the best guidance is the guidance of Muhammad, and the worst of matters are the newly invented matters and every bid'ah is a misguidance.'.And Imaam Ahmad reports from the report of Ghadeef Ibnul Haarith ash-Shimaalee, 'Abdul Malk Ibn Marwaan sent (someone) to me and he said: Indeed we gather the people for two matters: raising the hands (for supplication) upon the minbar on the day of Jumu'ah and giving exhortations after the fajr and 'asr prayers. So he said: As for these two matters, then they are examples of your innovations in my opinion and I will not accept anything of them from you because the Prophet sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam said, 'A people do not introduce an innovation except that the likes of it is raised from the sunnah (ie. forgotten and neglected) and sticking to the sunnah is better than innovatig an innovation.' And something similar is reported from Ibn 'Umar. And as for what has occurred from some of the Salaf in their declaring some bid'ahs to be good then this is regards to bid'ah in it's linguistic meaning not it's sharee'ah meaning, and from these is the saying of 'Umar radiallaahu 'anhu when he gathered the people for the standing of Ramadhaan behind one Imaam. He gives reasons as to why this is so, but these have already been mentioned in other articles, and some of them above, so I will not repeat them] And from them: the adhaan for jumu'ah that was increased on by 'Uthmaan due to the need of the people.and it is reported from ibn Umar that he said this was a bid'ah. And maybe he meant what his father meant concerning the standing during the month of Ramadhaan. And from them: collecting the mushaf as one book and the Prophet sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam used to command that the revelation be written and there is no difference in this between writing separately or as one collection, rather one collection has more benefit...[mentioning more examples]... And Abu Nu'aym reports with a chain of narration from Ibraaheem Ibn Junayd who said: I heard ash-Shaafi'ee saying: 'bid'ah is of two types..' And he depended upon the saying of 'Umar radiallaahu 'anhu, 'what a good bid'ah this is' and the meaning of ash-Shaafi'ee (rahimahullaah) is as we have mentioned previously: that the foundation for the blameworthy bid'ah is that which does not have a basis in the sharee'ah that can be referred to - and this is a bid'ah in the convention of the sharee'ah. As for the praiseworthy bid'ah then that is what agrees with the sunnah - meaning that is has a basis in the sunnah that can be referred to, and this is a 'bid'ah' in it's linguistic meaning not in it's sharee'ah meaning due to it's conforming with the sunnah. And another statement has been reported from ash-Shaafi'ee that explains this, and that is: 'newly invented matters are of two types.'" [end] So every innovation is a misguidance, contrary to what some may have you believe.

2. The alleged statement of Imaam ash-Shaafi'ee is another ploy used by the people of bid'ah to try to legislate their innovations into the complete and perfected Religion of Allaah.

3. The shaykh, Saalih al-Fawzaan quoted from al-Haafidh Ibn Rajab, so it would be useful to quote the full discussion: al-Haafidh Ibn Rajab said in commentary of the hadeeth, whosoever introduces something in this affair of ours which is not part of it then it must be rejected.' And the hadeeth, 'whosoever does an action which we have not commanded must be rejected': "This hadeeth contains a great principle from amongst the principles if Islaam, for just as the hadeeth 'indeed actions are by intentions' is the scale (to judge the action in) it's inward form this hadeeth is the scale (to the action in) it's outward form. Just as any action that is not done seeking the Face of Allaah the Exalted does not bestow any reward upon the actor, similarly any action that has not been commanded by Allaah and His Messenger is rejected. And everyone that innovates in the religion that which Allaah and His Messenger have not given permission for, then it is nothing in the religion... And this hadeeth in it's wording indicates that every action that has not been commanded by the Legislator is rejected, and it's understanding indicates that every action that has been commanded is not rejected. And the meaning of 'his command' here is 'his religion and law' as is the meaning of his saying in the other narration, 'whosoever introduces something in this affair of ours which is not part of it must be rejected.' Therefore the meaning is that whosoevers action is outside the sharee'ah and not bound by the sharee'ah, is rejected. And his saying, 'which we have not commanded' indicates it is necessary for th actions of the actors to fall under the rules and regulations of the sharee'ah and that the rules of the Sharee'ah be the judge to command them or forbid them. So whosoevers action falls under the rules and regulations of the sharee'ah, in agreement with them, then his action is accepted, and otherwise it is rejected...and whosoever seeks to draw close to Allaah with an action that Allaah and His Messengersallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam have not appointed as a means of drawing close to Allaah then his action is false and rejected... And the Messenger sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam saw a person standing in the sun, and so he inquired about him and it was said in reply, 'he has taken an oath to stand and not to sit or take shade, and to fast.' So the Prophet sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam ordered him to sit and seek the shade and to complete his fast. [Bukhaaree] So he sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam did not make his standing and exposure to the sun a means of getting close (to Allaah) such that it would require fulfilling the oath. And it is reported that this event occurred on the day of jumu'ah at time of hearing the khutbah of the Prophet sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam while he was on the minbar. So this man made the oath to stand and not sit or seek the shade for as long as the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) gave his sermon, in glorification/respect of listening to the sermon of the Prophet sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam, and yet the Messenger sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam did not make this a means of getting close to Allaah that would require fulfillment of his oath. Despite the fact that standing is worship in other places such as prayer and adhaan and offering du'aa on 'Arafah. And exposure to the sun is a means of getting closer to Allaah for the one in ihraam, so this indicates that everything that is a means of getting close to Allaah on a particular occasion is not a means of getting close on every occasion, rather one follows what occurs in the Sharee'ah in it's correct place for everything." [it is known in the sharee'ah that an oath which involves disobedience to Allaah does not require fulfillment]

4. As for the deception of the people of bid'ah in saying that the collection of the ahaadeeth of the Messenger sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam as an innovation, then this is simply not true. From Abu Qabeel who said: We were with 'Abdullaah Ibn 'Amr Ibnul 'Aas and he was asked which city will be conquered first Constantinople or Rome? So 'Abdullaah called for a sealed trunk and he said: Take out a book from it. Then 'Abdullaah said: Whilst we were with the Messenger of Allaah sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam writing. The Messenger of Allaah sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam was asked: Which city will be conquered first, constantinople or Rome? So Allaah's Messenger (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said: "The city of Heraclius will be conquered first" meaning Constantinople. [Related by Ahmad (2/176), ad-Daarimee (1/126) and al Haakim (3/422)] So this narration shows that some of the Companions did write the hadeeths of the Messenger sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam in his presence.




5. Ibn Hajar on bid'ah as in 'Fath (13/314+) Kitaabul-I'tisaam, Chapter: Following The Sunan of The Prophet sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam. "His saying, 'and the worst of matters are the newly invented matters.', and muhadathaat means the newly invented matters that have no basis in the sharee'ah, and the are called according to the convention of the sharee'ah 'bid'ah', and that which has a basis in the sharee'ah that would prove it then it is not a bid'ah. So bid'ah in the convention of the sharee'ah is blameworthy in contravention to the language, for linguistically every thing that is newly invented, be it blameworthy or praiseworthy, is called bid'ah...and ash-Shaafi'ee said, 'bid'ah is of two types..' Reported by Abu Nu'aym via the route of Ibraaheem Ibn Junayd, and there occurs from ash-Shaafi'ee also what is reported by al-Bayhaqee in his 'Manaaqib', 'the newly invented matters are of two types.' end. And some of the scholars divided bid'ah into the five categories of ahkaam and this is clear. And it is established from Ibn Mas'ood that he said, 'indeed you have matured upon the fitrah, but indeed you shall innovate, and things shall be innovated for you, so when you see the innovations then stick to the original guidance'...And Imaam Ahmad reported with a good sanad from Ghadeef Ibnul-Haarith who said, 'al-Malik Ibn Marwaan sent (someone) to me and he said: indeed we gather the people for two matters: raising the hands (for du'aa) upon the minbar on the day of jumu'ah, and giving exhortations after the fajr and 'asr prayers. So he said: as for these two, then they are examples of your innovations in my opinion and I will not accept anything of them from you because the Prophet sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam said, 'a people do not introduce an innovation except that a sunnah the likes of it is raised (i.e. forgotten and neglected)' and sticking to the sunnah is better then introducing a bid'ah' so if this was the answer of this sahaabee concerning a matter that has a basis in the religion, then what do you think the case would be concerning a matter that has no basis in the religion? And how about when it includes things that contradict the sunnah?..and this matter (of giving exhortations) was present during the time of the Prophet sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam but it was not done constantly like the jumu'ah khutbah rather it was done as the need dictated. And as for his saying in the hadeeth of al-Irbaadh, 'indeed every bid'ah is a misguidance' after saying, 'and beware of the newly invented matters' proves that newly invented matters are called bid'ah. And his saying, 'and indeed every bid'ah is misguidance' is a complete sharee'ah principle both in wording and understanding. As for in wording then it is as if it is said, 'the ruling of such and such is that it is a bid'ah and every bid'ah is a misguidance' and so it would not be from the sharee'ah because the sharee'ah, in it's totality, is guidance...and the meaning of his words 'every bid'ah is a misguidance' is that which has been introduced that has no evidence in either a specific or general way...Ibn 'Abdis Salaam said at the end of 'al-Qawaa'id': bid'ah is of five classifications [mentioning the five and some examples of them]" [End of Ibn Hajar's words] There are some points to be recognized here:

1. Ibn Hajars quoting from Imaam ash-Shaafi'ee after making clear that in the language bid'ah is of two types but in the Sharee'ah it is only one.

2. Indicating that he understands the statement 'praiseworthy bid'ah' in the linguistic sense as did Ibn Rajab.

3. His quoting Ibn 'Abdis Salaam in his classifying bid'ah into 5 categories but he himself saying, 'and the meaning of his words 'every bid'ah is a misguidance' is that which has been introduced that has no evidence in either a specific or general way' and other similar statements.

And Verily Allaah the Exalted Knows Best.



Once again, say NO to bid3ah
Reply

AhmadibnNasroon
07-27-2010, 04:19 PM
another recommendation for our brothers and sisters, "the religion is knowledge, so look to who you take your religion from" - Muhammad ibn Sireen. Please becareful in going to forums that support Sufi tariqas, Shi3a, Secularism, etc. Our deen is Qur'an and Sunnah from the UNDERSTANDING of the SALAF. I'm seeing quotes from Faraz Rabbani and others. Does everyone even know this man and what he stands for? Lets becareful of our deen and guard it with everything we have. May Allah protect us from bid3ah, shirk, and kufr.
Reply

ardianto
07-27-2010, 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by Sister Unknown
Akhi, I have not read what you've writtten since it's kind of long. If we were all to choose a particular shaykh .... Let me ask you, how do you know what is bid'ah hasana?
I know it from Ulama who understand what is bid'ah hasanah in correct meaning,

Unfortunatelly, I found many Ulama who innovate bid'ah and use statement from Imam Shafi'i rahimahullah as their argument. Of course, they are wrong because they do not understand what was Imam Shafi'i rahimahullah means with bid'ah hasanah. But I do not follow Ulama like them.
Respected imams, every scholar makes mistakes. Who ever says that any scholar doesn't make a mistake, is against my logical and it is impossible. Thus, their work is left to the ulma, and not a bucnh of laypeople.
There is no scholar who free from mistake. So, don't be hesitate to seek knowledge from more than one scholar.
Reply

Zafran
07-27-2010, 06:03 PM
salaam

this is where the difference actually lies - I have heard the categories of Bida but there are also scholars who have a very different definition of bida. Its the root of the differences. As scholars clearly dont agree with the definition of Bida.

peace
Reply

Salahudeen
07-27-2010, 06:06 PM
I don't understand how can there be categories of bid'a when the prophet (saw) said "every innovation is misguidance, and every misguidance is in the hell fire".

It'd make sense if he said "every innovation apart from some are misguidance"
Reply

Zafran
07-27-2010, 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by squiggle
I don't understand how can there be categories of bid'a when the prophet (saw) said "every innovation is misguidance, and every misguidance is in the hell fire".

It'd make sense if he said "every innovation apart from some are misguidance"
Salaam

salaam its impossible to take that literal as we know that the companions did do bida as well which was for the good - for exmaple the collection of the Quran in one book form.

peace
Reply

AhmadibnNasroon
07-27-2010, 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by squiggle
I don't understand how can there be categories of bid'a when the prophet (saw) said "every innovation is misguidance, and every misguidance is in the hell fire".

It'd make sense if he said "every innovation apart from some are misguidance"
please read my previous post
Reply

AhmadibnNasroon
07-27-2010, 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by Zafran
Salaam

salaam its impossible to take that literal as we know that the companions did do bida as well which was for the good - for exmaple the collection of the Quran in one book form.

peace
please read my previous post
Reply

Snowflake
07-27-2010, 06:19 PM
Ibn Taymiyyah deemed it permissable to use a weak hadith 'if it encourages what is known as a good deed in Islamic shari'ah, something of virtue, a praiseworthy action, or idea, then it is fully acceptable to refer to such a hadith as an encouragement for that deed'. The scholars in the list below are in agreement with his view.


'I recapitulate the list of hadith masters who accept the use of hadeeth da`îf at the very least for religious practice related to ethics (fada'il al-a`mal) and in some cases even for legal rulings (Ahmad, Abu Dawud, and the entire Hanafi school), according to the above three sources (Sakhawi, Ibrahim, Keller):

1- Nawawi
2- Ibn al-Salah
3- Sufyan al-Thawri
4- Ahmad Ibn Hanbal
5- Ibn `Uyaynah
6- Ibn al-Mubarak
7- Ibn Mahdi
8- Ibn Ma`een (forgery specialist)
9- al-Khatib al-Baghdadi in 'al-Kifayah', chapter entitled:
"strictness with regard to ahadith pertaining to rulings
and leniency with regard to those pertaining to virtuous actions"
10- Bukhari as proven by his use of them in 'al-Adab al- mufrad'
11- Ali al-Qari (forgery specialist)
12- Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani.
13- Ibn Abd al-Barr in 'al-Isaba'.
14- Ibn al-Qayyim in 'I`lam al-muwaqqi`een'.
15- Sakhawi
16- Abu Sa`eed al-`Ala'i (forgery specialist).
17- Abu Dawud.
18- Hanafi school.


All these scholars cannot be wrong.

GF Haddad ©
[10 Apr 1996]

From Ibn Taymiyyah on the subject

To continue, Ibn Taymiyya says, in para 478:
"and that is the action which is known to be lawful with a shari'ah evidence, and there has been narrated in its virtue a hadith that is not known to be a lie, it is possible that the reward will be true, although none of the Imams have said that it is permissible to consider something required (wâjib) or recommended (mustahabb) by way of a weak hadith, and whoever said so differed from the consensus (ijmâ')."

So here we see that Ibn Taymiyya is explaining that if there is a hadith, even though it has not been judged to be authentic, if it encourages what is known as a good deed in Islamic shari'ah, something of virtue, a praiseworthy action, or idea, then it is fully acceptable to refer to such a hadith as an encouragement for that deed.



read rest here: http://www.livingislam.org/n/vwh_e.htm


the prophet (saw) said "every innovation is misguidance, and every misguidance is in the hell fire".
Yes the prophet (pbuh) said that, but in what context? Performing voluntary ibadah on a night shown to have merits is not adding to the deen as it is a voluntary act. Voluntary acts are clearly permissible. Innovation is suggesting we sould read two rakahs fardh in Isha rather than four/ or to make something fardh when it is not. The asahaba performed ruqyah without any knowledge or sign that it was recommended. They only came to know about it when they enquired from the prophet regarding it payment. This prooves not every act done with good intentions is bid'ah. And Allah knows best.
Reply

Salahudeen
07-27-2010, 06:40 PM
Originally Posted by Zafran
Salaam

salaam its impossible to take that literal as we know that the companions did do bida as well which was for the good - for exmaple the collection of the Quran in one book form.

peace
Gathering the Qur'aan in one book has basis in the Sharee'ah because the Prophet approved and ordered writing of the Qur'aan, though it was inscribed in parts. The Sahabah collected it in one book in order to preserve it.
Reply

Zafran
07-27-2010, 06:58 PM
Originally Posted by squiggle
Gathering the Qur'aan in one book has basis in the Sharee'ah because the Prophet approved and ordered writing of the Qur'aan, though it was inscribed in parts. The Sahabah collected it in one book in order to preserve it.
Salaam

Yes it does but collecting the Quran in book form is a bida therefore its hard to take the ahdith that says "every innovation is misguidance, and every misguidance is in the hell fire" literally. So there are good bidas such as collecting the Quran in a book form.

This might also be the reason why scholars use categories of bida.


peace
Reply

AhmadibnNasroon
07-27-2010, 07:25 PM
Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
Ibn Taymiyyah deemed it permissable to use a weak hadith 'if it encourages what is known as a good deed in Islamic shari'ah, something of virtue, a praiseworthy action, or idea, then it is fully acceptable to refer to such a hadith as an encouragement for that deed'. The scholars in the list below are in agreement with his view.


'I recapitulate the list of hadith masters who accept the use of hadeeth da`îf at the very least for religious practice related to ethics (fada'il al-a`mal) and in some cases even for legal rulings (Ahmad, Abu Dawud, and the entire Hanafi school), according to the above three sources (Sakhawi, Ibrahim, Keller):

1- Nawawi
2- Ibn al-Salah
3- Sufyan al-Thawri
4- Ahmad Ibn Hanbal
5- Ibn `Uyaynah
6- Ibn al-Mubarak
7- Ibn Mahdi
8- Ibn Ma`een (forgery specialist)
9- al-Khatib al-Baghdadi in 'al-Kifayah', chapter entitled:
"strictness with regard to ahadith pertaining to rulings
and leniency with regard to those pertaining to virtuous actions"
10- Bukhari as proven by his use of them in 'al-Adab al- mufrad'
11- Ali al-Qari (forgery specialist)
12- Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani.
13- Ibn Abd al-Barr in 'al-Isaba'.
14- Ibn al-Qayyim in 'I`lam al-muwaqqi`een'.
15- Sakhawi
16- Abu Sa`eed al-`Ala'i (forgery specialist).
17- Abu Dawud.
18- Hanafi school.


All these scholars cannot be wrong.

GF Haddad ©
[10 Apr 1996]

From Ibn Taymiyyah on the subject

To continue, Ibn Taymiyya says, in para 478:
"and that is the action which is known to be lawful with a shari'ah evidence, and there has been narrated in its virtue a hadith that is not known to be a lie, it is possible that the reward will be true, although none of the Imams have said that it is permissible to consider something required (wâjib) or recommended (mustahabb) by way of a weak hadith, and whoever said so differed from the consensus (ijmâ')."

So here we see that Ibn Taymiyya is explaining that if there is a hadith, even though it has not been judged to be authentic, if it encourages what is known as a good deed in Islamic shari'ah, something of virtue, a praiseworthy action, or idea, then it is fully acceptable to refer to such a hadith as an encouragement for that deed.



read rest here: http://www.livingislam.org/n/vwh_e.htm




Yes the prophet (pbuh) said that, but in what context? Performing voluntary ibadah on a night shown to have merits is not adding to the deen as it is a voluntary act. Voluntary acts are clearly permissible. Innovation is suggesting we sould read two rakahs fardh in Isha rather than four/ or to make something fardh when it is not. The asahaba performed ruqyah without any knowledge or sign that it was recommended. They only came to know about it when they enquired from the prophet regarding it payment. This prooves not every act done with good intentions is bid'ah. And Allah knows best.
My sister in Islam, my Allah preserve you, but this is exactly the problem. I hope you didn't type in google "using weak hadith" and clicked on the first link you saw. That website is from GF Haddad, a known Sufi whose aim and goal is to defeat ahlu'sunnah. He calls us wahabis, kharijis, extremists, etc.

There are many errors in his understanding and the scholars have stated the understanding of Shaykh al Islaam ibn Taymiyya (who btw GF Haddad hates). It does not suffice to say so and so from the tabi3oon or so and so from the salaf used weak hadeeth. Rather its important to know WHY a particular Imam used a weak hadeeth.

Firstly, Haddad's understanding behind Imam Ahmad, Abu Dawud and others is horribly flawed and scholars have mentioned this. Imam Ahmad was known to classify HASAN (good) hadeeth as DA'EEF. Other scholars didn't consider hasan hadeeth to be da3eef but Imam AHmad did. This doesn't mean the hadeeth itself is actually weak.

Secondly, a scholar may collect a weak narration in their texts but this does not mean the scholar accepts this hadeeth or is saying to act upon it. Abu Dawud was one of the many mu7aditheen that did this. He gathered weak ahadeeth in his Sunan but labeled some of them weak himself!

Thirdly, the understanding behind Shaykh al Islaam ibn Taymiyya's statement is greatly misunderstood. He said in his Majmoo3 al Fataawa

"If the weak hadith speaking about the virtues of a good deed introduces any quantitative statement or any specification, then it is impermissible to use it. For example, this would be the case if the hadith specifies a particular time for reciting the Qur'an or a specific chapter or verse, or if it gives a particular way of performing an act." [Majmû` al-Fatâwâ (18/67)]

And ibn Muflih al Hanbali clarified the position of Imam Ahmad in this matter in his Al Adab al-Sharee3'ah, "It is attributed to Imam Ahmad that he would never use a weak hadith for establishing the virtues of good deeds or meritorious acts." [al-Âdâb al-Shar`iyyah (2/304)] .

This topic is not as simple as saying, "oh so and so used a weak hadeeth so therefore its okay". No, it doesn't work that way, we should never feel because there is merit mentioned in a hadeeth and although it is weak we can act upon it.

Imam Muslim was very strict regarding this in his introduction to his Saheeh.

"the weak ahaadeeth are to be discarded and only authentic ahaadeeth are to be narrated", "To proceed, may Allaah have mercy upon you. If it were not from the evil practice that we have seen from many who take upon themselves the position of Muhaddith, in their leaving the obligation to discard the weak ahaadeeth and munkar narrations and to suffice with only the authentic ahaadeeth - well known and transmitted from reliable narrators, well known for their truthfulness and trustworthiness. After knowing and admitting with their tongues that much of what they fling at the ignorant is to be rejected and is transmitted by unsatisfactory narrators whose narrations are censured by the scholars of hadeeth like Maalik, Yahya bin Sa'eed al-Qattaan and others ... And know may Allaah have mercy upon you, that what is obligatory upon everyone who is able to distinguish between authentic and weak narrations and between the suspect and reliable narrators, is that he should narrate therefrom except that known to be authentic and have trustworthy narrators..."

Furthermore in the beginning of Haddad's statement he quotes ibn Taymiyya rahimahullah as saying, 'if it encourages what is known as a good deed in Islamic shari'ah, something of virtue, a praiseworthy action, or idea, then it is fully acceptable to refer to such a hadith as an encouragement for that deed'.

Can we say this abt acts of 3ibaadah that are proven on the 15th of Sha3ban, 27th of Rajab, etc? Of course not, because these are not KNOWN. Do you see the difference ukht?

I will give you an example. In the Sciences of hadeeth, you have hadeeth which are hasan li ghayrihi, these are hadeeth that are weak but due to supporting evidences they are raised to the level of hasan. That is precisely it though, they are raised to that level due to that support. Where as we do not find support for other acts of bid3ah that people do. Its important to differentiate between what is known to what simply isn't especially if the scholars of hadeeth aknowledge that a narration is weak or fabricated.

Lastly, I'd like to leave us with the statement of the Messenger of Allah sallallaahu alayhi'wa'salam and let us ponder on them before we go and act on something that we know has no basis in the sharee3ah.

"Whoever ascribes to me that which I did not say, will surely have to occupy his seat in the fire [of hell]"

May Allah protect us from bid3ah, shirk, and kufr, ameen.

I hope this clarifies inshaAllah,.
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
07-27-2010, 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by AhmadibnNasroon
Concerning the middle of Sha3ban, then some posters are glorifying it and mentioning that we should act upon it, praying and fasting and the sort, and know that this is deviation. We shouldn't encourage this knowing full well that the ahadeeth are weak and the scholars of hadeeth have stated this.
:sl:

This is exactly the mentality I'm talking about - it's a zombie mentality which does not pay attention to the fact that there have been legitimate historical differences amongst the Fuqaha on issues, one of these issues being the 15th of Sha'ban. This mentality makes the individual quick to blurt out statements like 'this is deviation' without realizing exactly who he's throwing under that statement (in this case you just threw Ibn Taymiyyah under your understanding of "deviation", and he's the least of who you threw in there). It's disrespectful firstly to knowledge and secondly to the scholars that carried that knowledge because it waters down something that was not meant to be watered down to something black and white.

We need to learn to be critically respective of scholarship - not take everything blindly just because a scholar said it but question to understand why something is being said, why other scholars held a different opinion and why the difference of opinion exists in the first place and then learn to accept that difference of opinion when legitimate. Even Ibrahim (as) asked Allaah to show him how He gives life to the dead to satisfy his heart - and that's something regarding the very fundamentals of 'Aqeedah! How then can we dumb ourselves down and just accept something because some fatwa said it? That's why these Copy and Paste jobs don't cut it and are more detrimental than anything because it creates a barrier between the masses and learning about the religion, and secondly it turns people into zombies who are incapable of critically thinking for themselves because they're being told this is the end all of everything no matter how simplistic the understanding is. You can't question it otherwise you're falling into "deviation".
Reply

AhmadibnNasroon
07-27-2010, 07:30 PM
I also leave us with an interesting order of hadeeth in Imam Nawawi's 40 Hadeeth

Hadeeth 5 states

On the authority of Aishah, who said : The messenger of Allah said: "He who innovates something in this matter of ours that is not of it will have it rejected." - Bukhari and Muslim

"fi riwayatil Muslim" - "He who does an act which our matter is not [in agreement] with will have it rejected."

Hadeeth 6 states

On the authority of Al-Numan bin Basheer, who said : I heard the messenger of Allah say : "That which is lawful is plain and that which is unlawful is plain and between the two of them are doubtful matters about which not many people know. Thus he who avoids doubtful matters clears himself in regard to his religion and his honor, but he who falls into doubtful matters falls into that which is unlawful, like the shepherd who pastures around a sanctuary, all but grazing therein. Truly every king has a sanctuary, and truly Allah's sanctuary is His prohibitions. Truly in the body there is a morsel of flesh which, if it be whole, all the body is whole and which, if it be diseased, all of it is diseased. Truly it is the heart." - al Bukhari and Muslim
Reply

AhmadibnNasroon
07-27-2010, 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by Muraad
:sl:

This is exactly the mentality I'm talking about - it's a zombie mentality which does not pay attention to the fact that there have been legitimate historical differences amongst the Fuqaha on issues, one of these issues being the 15th of Sha'ban. This mentality makes the individual quick to blurt out statements like 'this is deviation' without realizing exactly who he's throwing under that statement (in this case you just threw Ibn Taymiyyah under your understanding of "deviation", and he's the least of who you threw in there). It's disrespectful firstly to knowledge and secondly to the scholars that carried that knowledge because it waters down something that was not meant to be watered down to something black and white.

We need to learn to be critically respective of scholarship - not take everything blindly just because a scholar said it but question to understand why something is being said, why other scholars held a different opinion and why the difference of opinion exists in the first place and then learn to accept that difference of opinion when legitimate. Even Ibrahim (as) asked Allaah to show him how He gives life to the dead to satisfy his heart - and that's something regarding the very fundamentals of 'Aqeedah! How then can we dumb ourselves down and just accept something online? That's why these Copy and Paste jobs don't cut it and are more detrimental than anything because it creates a barrier between the masses and learning about the religion, and secondly it turns people into zombies who are incapable of critically thinking for themselves because they're being told this is the end all of everything no matter how simplistic the understanding is. You can't question it otherwise you're falling into "deviation".
I did not throw ibn Taymiyya under any deviation. This is not what I was referring to, furthermore we need to always stop pulling the "differences of opinion" card to suit our desires. This is just as Abdullah ibn Abbas said when the people came to him and said, "But Abu Bakr said..." and he said, "may stones be rained down on you, I say Allah and His Messenger said and you say Abu Bakr and Umar said." Since when do we abandon the ayat and authentic hadeeth for the statement of a scholar? Especially when the scholars themselves have agreed or proved otherwise against the ijtihaad of another scholar?

This goes against basic Islam. Also, we cannot say this issue a "legitimate" difference of opinion, it is not, and no one deems it as such. People are relying on weak claims to suit their desires. Since when was it about what we WANT?

I have no zombie mentality, but the minute we started getting relaxed where the deen is concerned is the minute shaytaan takes that opportunity to split us up.

This is exactly why I didn't want to get into this debate, because people can't handle it, and you're a moderator so obviously its not going to get anywhere.

You said this,

We need to learn to be critically respective of scholarship - not take everything blindly just because a scholar said it but question to understand why something is being said, why other scholars held a different opinion and why the difference of opinion exists in the first place and then learn to accept that difference of opinion when legitimate.
i agree 100%, so what are you doing?
Reply

Salahudeen
07-27-2010, 07:39 PM
There is nothing good in Bidah. Allah's Messenger said, "Whosoever innovates in our religion that is not from it, will have it rejected."

"Every innovation is a misguidance." The Prophet thus declared all forms of Bidah as misguidance (so how can one) argue that not all forms of Bidah are misguidance. There is Bidah Husna (good innovation)!! Hafidh Ibn Rajab writes in Sharh al-Arba'een, "The saying of Allah's Messenger , 'Every Bidah is misguidance’ is a comprehensive statement, which does not exclude anything (i.e. any innovation). This Hadeeth is a great fundamental of the Deen, like his saying, "Whosoever innovates in our religion, which is not from it will have it rejected."


Shaikhul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah explains in Iqtida Siraat al- Mustaqeem that it is not permissible for someone to contradict the comprehensive statement of Allah's Messenger , “Every Bidah is misguidance” by depriving the statement of its generality and claiming that not every innovation is misguidance because by doing this you are closer to opposing the Messenger of Allah than to misinterpreting (his statement). Verily, the generality of the statement of the Prophet is very clear in this comprehensive statement.

Shaikhul-Islam also explained that to specify/restrict a general ruling without a proof from the Book, Sunnah or Ijma is not acceptable. It is obligatory to stick to the generality of the statement.

Quoted from 'Hukm al-Ihtifal bil-Mawlid war-Radd ala man ajaaz'


So everyone who innovates and ascribes the innovation to the religion without any basis in the Deen, then it is indeed an innovation and the religion is free from it - whether the issue is of Aqeedah (beliefs) or actions.

Those who uphold this argument (that there is Bidah Husna in Islam) have no proof to withstand their claim except the saying of Umar concerning Salaat at Taraweeh, "What a good Bidah this is!"

They also claim that there existed innovations (at the time ofthe Salaf) which were not disliked by the Salaf like, gathering all the Qur'aan in one book, writing and documentation of the Hadeeth.

Reply: All these actions have an origin in the religion and thus are not innovations


The saying of Umar , ‘What a good Bidah is this?’ The intention of Umar by this statement was innovation in the linguistic form and not innovation in the religion because if it is said, "It is a Bidah." - concerning an act which has an origin in the Sharee'ah then it means Bidah in the linguistic form and not a Bidah in the
Sharee'ah because Bidah in the Sharee'ah is something that has no origin in the Sharee'ah.

[Saheeh al-Bukharee]
[Musnad Ahmad (4/126) and at-Tirmidhee (2676)]




Shaikhul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah explained the meaning of Bidah

Bidah in the language “ is everything that is carried out for the first timewithout a similar example in the past".

Bidah in the Sharee'ah "is everything that does not have any proof from the Sharee'ah.”

Shaikhul-Islam explained that if Allah's Messenger in his lifetime indicates that a certain action is recommended (Mustahabb) or obligatory but it is not acted upon until after his death then such an action is linguistically called Bidah because it is anewaction. Shaikhul-Islam further explained that during the life-time of Allah's Messenger , people used to establish the Qiyam of Ramadaan in Jama'ah, but on the third or fourth night Allah's Messenger explained that nothing prohibited him from coming out to pray with the companions except the fear that Taraweeh might be made obligatory upon the Ummah...


Shaikhul-Islam explained that if Allah's Messenger in his lifetime indicates that a certain action is recommended (Mustahabb) or obligatory but it is not acted upon until after his death then such an action is linguistically called Bidah because it is anewaction. Shaikhul-Islam further explained that during the life-time of Allah's Messenger , people used to establish the Qiyam of Ramadaan in Jama'ah, but on the third or fourth night Allah's Messenger explained that nothing prohibited him from coming out to pray with the companions except the fear that Taraweeh might bemadeobligatory upon the Ummah


So, the excuse of not coming out to pray was the fear of obligation and it is established that if there was no such fear then Allah's Messenger would havecomeout. This fear was not existent at the time of Umar (because the revelation was completed). Umar thus gathered the people behind one Imam and the mosque was lit up (with the people who joined in the Jama'ah) and this (delightful) atmosphere came into existence.


This action of gathering in the mosque behind one Imam was not carried out by the people prior to this day and thus, Umar called it a Bidah because it is anewaction in the linguistic form. It is not a Bidah in the Sharee'ah because the Sunnah has established that praying Taraweeh in groups is a righteous action, if
there was no fear of obligation, and this fear vanishedwith the death of Allah's Messenger ...”

See, Iqtida Sirat al-Mustaqeem.
Quoted from 'Hukm al-Ihtifal bil-Mawlid war-Radd ala man ajaaz'
by Shaikh Muhammad ibn Ibraheem Aal-Shaikh (rahimahullah)

Gathering the Qur'aan in one book

has basis in the Sharee'ah because the Prophet approved and ordered writing of the Qur'aan, though it was inscribed in parts. The Sahabah collected it in one book in order to preserve it.

As far as Taraweeh is concerned

Allah's Messenger performed Taraweeh with his Sahabah but he later discontinued it fearing that Taraweeh might become an obligatory duty upon the Muslims. However, the Sahabah continued prayingTaraweeh in separate groups during the life of Allah's Messenger and after his death until Umar
gathered them behind one Imam like they used to pray behind Allah's Messenger and so, this is not a Bidah in the religion.


Shaikhul-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (rahimahullah) also explained that Salaat Taraweeh is not a Bidah in the Sharee'ah rather it is a Sunnah of Allah's Messenger because he performed it and said, “Allah has made the fasts of Ramadaan obligatory upon you and made Qiyaam a Sunnah.”

Praying Taraweeh in the Jama'ah is also not a Bidah because Allah's Messenger is known to have performed this prayer in Jama'ah in the beginning of the Ramadaan for two nights, rather three nights.

The Prophet also established this Salaat many times during the last ten days and he said, “If a man prays behind the Imam until he (the Imam) completes his prayer then the reward of performing Qiyaam during the whole night will be recorded for him.”

This saying of the Prophet is an encouragement to perform Qiyaam behind the Imam and it further establishes that Qiyaam is a Sunnah and people used to pray in groups during his time and he approved of them and approval of the Prophet is a Sunnah.

See, Iqtida Sirat al-Mustaqeem.
Quoted from 'Hukm al-Ihtifal bil-Mawlid war-Radd ala man ajaaz'
by Shaikh Muhammad ibn Ibraheem Aal-Shaikh (rahimahullah)


Documentation of Ahadeeth

also has roots in the Sharee'ah. Allah's Messenger ordered that Ahadeeth be written for some Sahabah
who requested it. The documentation was prohibited in general at the time of Allah's Messenger fearing that something might be added to the Qur'aan which was not from it. After the death of Allah's Messenger the cause (behind this prohibition) ended because the Qur'aan had been completed and arrangement of the verses were also determined.

So, the Muslims wrote down the Sunnah in order to preserve it from being lost. May Allah grant them good returns for their efforts in safeguarding the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His Messenger.
Reply

cat eyes
07-27-2010, 07:52 PM
Originally Posted by Zafran
Salaam

salaam its impossible to take that literal as we know that the companions did do bida as well which was for the good - for exmaple the collection of the Quran in one book form.

peace
oh really u say the companions did bid'da thats the first ive ever heard of such a thing. could u give evidence on this and explain more further please.

according to my understanding both good bid'da and bad bid'da is wrong and every type of bid'da is misguidance and every misguidance leads to the helfire
Reply

aadil77
07-27-2010, 08:02 PM
Originally Posted by Zafran
Salaam

Yes it does but collecting the Quran in book form is a bida therefore its hard to take the ahdith that says "every innovation is misguidance, and every misguidance is in the hell fire" literally. So there are good bidas such as collecting the Quran in a book form.

This might also be the reason why scholars use categories of bida.


peace
I thought bida'h in islam only refers to acts of ibaadah
Reply

Salahudeen
07-27-2010, 08:09 PM
Originally Posted by cat eyes


oh really u say the companions did bid'da thats the first ive ever heard of such a thing. could u give evidence on this and explain more further please.

according to my understanding both good bid'da and bad bid'da is wrong and every type of bid'da is misguidance and every misguidance leads to the helfire
I don't understand how either cos wouldn't they ask the prophet pbuh if what they did was allowed or not. Whenever they did an action like the example the sister gave earlier of Ruqya, they asked the prophet pbuh the ruling regarding it. And if he said it was permissable then they didn't really innovate that action because the prophet pbuh approved of what they did and said it's allowed in the religion. If the prophet pbuh had forbade what they did then they would've stopped it and it wouldn't have been apart of the religion. Thus no innovation.

So I can't see how they innovated. The ruqya example that the sister gave, the prophet pbuh approved of it, I believe after they had done it, so how did they innovate? Can we innovate today and ask the prophet (saw) if the action is allowed or not like the sahabba did?
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
07-27-2010, 08:10 PM
:sl:

You don't need to worry, Im not going to delete your post just because I have a different opinion than you. I don't think Ive deleted posts for quite a while actually :hmm:

Originally Posted by AhmadibnNasroon
I did not throw ibn Taymiyya under any deviation.
Didn't you say the following: "Concerning the middle of Sha3ban, then some posters are glorifying it and mentioning that we should act upon it, praying and fasting and the sort, and know that this is deviation. "

And didn't Ibn Taymiyyah say clearly: If a person were to pray on the 15th Night, whether alone or in specific congregation, as did groups form the early generations, then this is excellent (فهو أحسن).

I'd say he was not only glorifying it but also mentioning that we should act on it.

Do you acknowledge that Ibn Taymiyyah did i) acknowledge that the 15th of Sha'ban was a difference of opinion amongst the jurists, and ii) that he held it completely fine for people to pray in it together or in congregation actually saying it was excellent to do so?

See, I'm not trying to prove I'm right or that you're wrong - You can follow whatever you like. I'm just trying to get you to understand that there is a difference of opinion on this night and that if you hold view x (which is legitimate) then you should also tolerate view y (which is also legitimate). That's all.

This is not what I was referring to, furthermore we need to always stop pulling the "differences of opinion" card to suit our desires. This is just as Abdullah ibn Abbas said when the people came to him and said, "But Abu Bakr said..." and he said, "may stones be rained down on you, I say Allah and His Messenger said and you say Abu Bakr and Umar said." Since when do we abandon the ayat and authentic hadeeth for the statement of a scholar? Especially when the scholars themselves have agreed or proved otherwise against the ijtihaad of another scholar?
You see the difference here is that you're not Abdullah Ibn Abbas (r.a.) and I'm not quoting Abu Bakr or 'Umar. (r.a.). Both sides are quoting different scholars and both are using ahadeeth to support our views via the scholars that understood them a certain way. Regarding the half of Sha'ban, there are ahadeeth that are used by both sides and the difference of opinion is about the usage of those ahadeeth - not about following the Messenger (saw) or other than him. Both sides are trying their best to follow the Messenger (saw) albeit they are approaching it in two different ways and this approach is what we're talking about.

We agree on the fundamentals (the 'Usool) but we're differing over the branches (the furu') and we need to remember that and not turn the discussion into differing in regards to the 'Usool. And unfortunetly that's what the mentality I was talking about earlier does - it turns the issue of legitimate differences amongst the furu' into an issue regarding the Usool and that's where the problem lies.
Islamic legal theory, or usul al-fiqh, identifies two spheres of rulings. Issues about which jurists unanimously agree (mujma‘ ‘alayhi), and those wherein they differ (mukhtalif fihi). According to this juristic schema, issues in which there is juristic agreement about - because of the proof-texts being decisive in authenticity, as well as univocal and clear-cut in meaning - are referred to as 'usul, or fundamentals. Contravening them opens a person to legitimate censure, as per the famous hadith: “If anyone of you sees an evil, let him change it with his hand; if he is unable to do so, then with his tongue; and if he is unable to do this, then with his heart - and that is the weakest of faith.” Issues wherein the actual proof-texts are inconclusive in their authenticities, or equivocal and open to more than one legitimate reading, are known as furu‘; branches.* Here, the jurists of Sunni Islam are guided by the legal maxim: “lā inkār fī masāil al-khilāf - there can be no censure in issues of [legitimate] differing.” One need not spend a great deal of time reading through classical tracts on the duty of commanding good and forbidding evil before encountering an articulation of this famous principle.

Imam Ibn Daqiq al-‘Id, the outstanding Shafi‘ jurist, stipulates: “Scholars only censure what is agreed upon [as being wrong]. As for what is differed over, there is to be no censure of it.”**

*Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmu' Fatawa, 24:172;
**Sharh˙ al-Arba'in al-Nawawiyyah
So this is my point. The jurists have different over thousands of issues from the furu' using the EXACT same evidences - I'm talking about the same EXACT ayaat and ahadeeth and they've reached different conclusions. We need to be able to appreciate and understand why and not claim people are deviated or are insincere towards the sunnah just because they hold a different opinion.
This goes against basic Islam. Also, we cannot say this issue a "legitimate" difference of opinion, it is not, and no one deems it as such. People are relying on weak claims to suit their desires. Since when was it about what we WANT?
Akhi, my sincere advice to you would be to stop throwing out accusations on those that differ with you. You just accused everyone that holds a different opinion than you on the 15th of Sha'ban as following their desires (again throwing Ibn Taymiyyah under the same banner). Let's not get emotional on these issues.

I have no zombie mentality, but the minute we started getting relaxed where the deen is concerned is the minute shaytaan takes that opportunity to split us up.
Of course, and that's why when it comes to the Usool of the religion there is no getting relaxed - thats where the person gets censured. But when it comes to issues of the furu', there is room for a difference of opinion.

This is exactly why I didn't want to get into this debate, because people can't handle it, and you're a moderator so obviously its not going to get anywhere.
I think I'm handling it just well akhi. If you noticed, Im not debating regarding whether the 15th of Sha'ban is legitimate or not, that's not worth it. Rather, Im just trying to get you to understand that there does exist a difference of opinion amongst the Fuqaha. Once that's understood, you can follow whatever opinion you want, I have no problem.

You said this,
i agree 100%, so what are you doing?
I'm doing exactly that. A year ago, I was throwing out the word bid'ah in regards to the 15th of Sha'ban left and right. But after taking the time to understand why there is a difference of opinion and who held what opinion, it allowed me to see past the fatwas from different websites and understand that the issue is not as black and white as its made out to be.
Reply

Zafran
07-27-2010, 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by squiggle
I don't understand how either cos wouldn't they ask the prophet pbuh if what they did was allowed or not. Whenever they did an action like the example the sister gave earlier of Ruqya, they asked the prophet pbuh the ruling regarding it. And if he said it was permissable then they didn't really innovate that action because the prophet pbuh approved of what they did and said it's allowed in the religion. If the prophet pbuh had forbade what they did then they would've stopped it and it wouldn't have been apart of the religion. Thus no innovation.

So I can't see how they innovated. The ruqya example that the sister gave, the prophet pbuh approved of it, I believe after they had done it, so how did they innovate? Can we innovate today and ask the prophet (saw) if the action is allowed or not like the sahabba did?
Salaam

Its quite simple - did the prophet tell the sahaba to collect the Quran in book form - the answer is no - so its a bida - but its a good bida as we believe Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) did the right thing clearly.

Peace.
Reply

Zafran
07-27-2010, 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by cat eyes


oh really u say the companions did bid'da thats the first ive ever heard of such a thing. could u give evidence on this and explain more further please.

according to my understanding both good bid'da and bad bid'da is wrong and every type of bid'da is misguidance and every misguidance leads to the helfire
salaam

re read some of things posted by posters before - I dont have the time to keep going over and over again.

peace
Reply

Danah
07-27-2010, 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by мυѕℓιмαн 4 ℓιfє
Aslaamu`Alaaykum. . .

Okay i once got told that reciting "Sadakal Allah al Azeem" at the end of Recitation is Bidah, could someone please Confirm InshaAllaah?

Sorry if i havent bought no ref i was thinking maybe anyone on this thread can answer? Sorry and please do not be angry if ive said anything wrong or without knowledge .

Wa`Alaaykum Salaam

Saying “Sadaqa Allaah al-‘Azeem”

I often hear that saying “Sadaqa Allaah al-‘Azeem (Allaah Almighty has spoken the truth)” after reading Qur’aan is bid’ah. Some people told me that it is permissible and they quoted as evidence the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):
“Say (O Muhammad): “Allaah has spoken the truth; follow the religion of Ibraaheem (Abraham) Haneefa (Islamic Monotheism, i.e. he used to worship Allaah Alone)” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:95]
Some educated people told me that when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) wanted to stop someone who was reading Qur’aan he said, “Enough” and he did not say “Sadaqa Allaahu al-‘Azeem.” My question is: is it permissible to say “Sadaqa Allaahu al-‘Azeem” when one stops reading Qur’aan? Could you please explain this to me?


Praise be to Allaah.
I do not know of any basis for the people’s habit of saying “Sadaqa Allaahu al-‘Azeem” when they finish reading Qur’aan, so it should not be taken as a habit. Indeed, according to the principles of sharee’ah it is more like bid’ah, if anyone believes that it is Sunnah. So this should not be done and should not be taken as a habit.
With regard to the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):
“Say (O Muhammad): ‘Allaah has spoken the truth…’”[Aal ‘Imraan 3:95] –
This is not speaking about this matter. Rather Allaah was commanding him to explain to the people that Allaah had spoken the truth in what He had said in His Books, the Tawraat, etc., and that He had spoken the Truth in all that He had said to His slaves in the Tawraat, the Injeel and all other revealed Books.
And He was speaking the truth in all that He said to His slaves in His Book the Qur’aan. But this is not evidence that it is mustahabb to say “Sadaqa Allaah al-‘Azeem” after reading the Qur’aan or after reading some aayahs or a soorah. This was not reported or known from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them). When Ibn Mas’ood recited to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) from the beginning of Soorat al-Nisaa’ until he reached the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):
“How (will it be) then, when We bring from each nation a witness and We bring you (O Muhammad) as a witness against these people?”[al-Nisaa’ 4:41] –
the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to him, “Enough.” Ibn Mas’ood said: “I turned to him and saw that his eyes were filled with tears”, i.e., he was weeping because of the mention of this great status on the Day of Resurrection which is mentioned in this aayah, where Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “How (will it be) then, when We bring from each nation a witness and We bring you” – O Muhammad – “as a witness against these people?” – i.e., against his ummah.
The point is that there is no basis in sharee’ah for adding these words – “sadaqa Allaah al-‘Azeem” – when finishing reading Qur’aan. What is prescribed is not to do this, in accordance with the example of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them). But if a person does that sometimes, without intending to, it doesn’t matter, for Allaah speaks the truth in all matters, may He be glorified and exalted. But making that a habit every time one reads Qur’aan, as many people do nowadays, has no basis, as stated above.


Kitaab Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat Mutanawwi’ah li Samaahat al-Shaykh al-‘Allaamah ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him), vol. 9, p. 342 .




ٍSource
Reply

Snowflake
07-27-2010, 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by Danah


Saying “Sadaqa Allaah al-‘Azeem”

I often hear that saying “Sadaqa Allaah al-‘Azeem (Allaah Almighty has spoken the truth)” after reading Qur’aan is bid’ah. Some people told me that it is permissible and they quoted as evidence the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):
“Say (O Muhammad): “Allaah has spoken the truth; follow the religion of Ibraaheem (Abraham) Haneefa (Islamic Monotheism, i.e. he used to worship Allaah Alone)” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:95]
Some educated people told me that when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) wanted to stop someone who was reading Qur’aan he said, “Enough” and he did not say “Sadaqa Allaahu al-‘Azeem.” My question is: is it permissible to say “Sadaqa Allaahu al-‘Azeem” when one stops reading Qur’aan? Could you please explain this to me?


Praise be to Allaah.
I do not know of any basis for the people’s habit of saying “Sadaqa Allaahu al-‘Azeem” when they finish reading Qur’aan, so it should not be taken as a habit. Indeed, according to the principles of sharee’ah it is more like bid’ah, if anyone believes that it is Sunnah. So this should not be done and should not be taken as a habit.
With regard to the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):
“Say (O Muhammad): ‘Allaah has spoken the truth…’”[Aal ‘Imraan 3:95] –
This is not speaking about this matter. Rather Allaah was commanding him to explain to the people that Allaah had spoken the truth in what He had said in His Books, the Tawraat, etc., and that He had spoken the Truth in all that He had said to His slaves in the Tawraat, the Injeel and all other revealed Books.
And He was speaking the truth in all that He said to His slaves in His Book the Qur’aan. But this is not evidence that it is mustahabb to say “Sadaqa Allaah al-‘Azeem” after reading the Qur’aan or after reading some aayahs or a soorah. This was not reported or known from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them). When Ibn Mas’ood recited to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) from the beginning of Soorat al-Nisaa’ until he reached the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):
“How (will it be) then, when We bring from each nation a witness and We bring you (O Muhammad) as a witness against these people?”[al-Nisaa’ 4:41] –
the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to him, “Enough.” Ibn Mas’ood said: “I turned to him and saw that his eyes were filled with tears”, i.e., he was weeping because of the mention of this great status on the Day of Resurrection which is mentioned in this aayah, where Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “How (will it be) then, when We bring from each nation a witness and We bring you” – O Muhammad – “as a witness against these people?” – i.e., against his ummah.
The point is that there is no basis in sharee’ah for adding these words – “sadaqa Allaah al-‘Azeem” – when finishing reading Qur’aan. What is prescribed is not to do this, in accordance with the example of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them). But if a person does that sometimes, without intending to, it doesn’t matter, for Allaah speaks the truth in all matters, may He be glorified and exalted. But making that a habit every time one reads Qur’aan, as many people do nowadays, has no basis, as stated above.


Kitaab Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat Mutanawwi’ah li Samaahat al-Shaykh al-‘Allaamah ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him), vol. 9, p. 342 .




ٍSource
jazakiAllah ukhti. I don't believe it's sunnah but I like saying it purely because I like to finish Allah's kalaam with those words. It pleases my heart. Sometimes I say ameen, as in asking Allah to accept my recitation. : )
Reply

Salahudeen
07-27-2010, 09:40 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
I thought bida'h in islam only refers to acts of ibaadah
Yes that's what I thought, driving to the masjid in a car is also a bid'a, they are good innovations, so is inventing the eyeglasses we use to read the quran with is also a good bid'a. But there is no good bidah in acts of direct worship of Allah like fajr prayer is 2 rakah, if someone makes it 4 rak3ah that is bidah and it cannot be good even though the person thinks he is doing good and earning the pleasure of Allah by praying more rakaats. we had many inventions that help muslims, the bida that is not allowed is in acts of direct worship.

Doing something that you think brings you closer to Allah and earns his pleasure that the prophet (saw) never did.
Reply

ardianto
07-28-2010, 02:24 AM
Originally Posted by Zafran
Salaam

Its quite simple - did the prophet tell the sahaba to collect the Quran in book form - the answer is no - so its a bida - but its a good bida as we believe Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) did the right thing clearly.

Peace.
In another word, this is bid'ah hasana.
Reply

Salahudeen
07-28-2010, 04:35 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
In another word, this is bid'ah hasana.
I've been doing some more reading on this and found the following,

Ibn Al-Jawzi, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: “A Bid’ah is any form of worship that did not exist (at the time of the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam and his companions) then later it was innovated.”

Imaam Ash-Shaafi’i, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said:“A Bid’ah is anything that has no basis in the Qur’aan, Sunnah or sayings of any of the companions.”

Ibn Rajab, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: “A Bid’ah is any form of worship which has no basis in the Sharee’ah which would warrant its legislation.”

Ash-Shaatibi, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: “(A Bid’ah) is any matter which closely resembles the Sharee’ah and is intended to be a way of worshipping Allaah."

According to the above definitions a bid'a is any form of worship which has no basis in the Sharee’ah which would warrant its legislation. The microphone that the imam uses is also a bid'a however the bid'a that isn't allowed is acts of direct worship.

Any habitual act performed with the intention of pleasing Allaah which Islaam did not consider as an act of worship is a Bid'ah, such as for example: wearing coarse woollen clothes, continuous silence, refraining from eating bread or meat, not drinking cold water or standing in the sun.

The bid'a of a microphone isn't an act of worship where people seek Allah's pleasure by using it.

Moreover, all acts of worship must be performed in exactly the same manner as the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam did them. Because he is our role model and to innovate an act of worship that he never did suggests he never told us of something that pleases Allah and we know the prophet (saw) told us of every act of worship that is beneficial. To innovate an act of worship suggests the prophet (saw) was ignorant of it and this can never be the case.

"Now people they get a bit confused they say "Hang on so you should be aware of electricity of cars of tractors of technology because they are innovations" however this is not what the prophet (saw) is referring to, realise that when the prophet (saw) is warning us against innovation he is talking about innovations in the religion of Islam and not in this world.

It doesn't matter what we wear, how we go to our work, our electricity, our means of travel this is not religion per say, a bid'a or a religious innovation is defined to be every act that has been added into Islam that was not part of it, and by which or through which a person seeks rewards from Allah (swt) this is the important key factor, that through this act you will try to seek reward from Allah but this act did not exist in the prophet (saw) time.

So people should be careful because they get confused between modern technology and the modern world and between religious innovations. Allah and his messenger revealed this religion, modern technology is our invention we can do with it as we please, but the religion of Allah the Qur'an and sunnah, our aqeedah, our fiqh, how we call people to the way of Allah, how we give dawah, this is religion of Allah. For this we must go back to Allah and his messenger.

So the prophet (saw) said in a hadith: "Whoever does an act that we did not do, it will be rejected of him" and in one hadith he said, "On the day of judgement I will see my ummah and they will all come to me, yet some angels will come and push away a segment, so I will say O Allah this is my ummah, but Allah will respond "you do not know what innovations they did to this religion, you do not know what they added to this religion" and at that the prophet (saw) will say: " may the fire of hell be upon those who change my religion"

The above hadith clearly indicates doing an act of worship that the prophet (saw) never did will be rejected.

The prophet (saw) in many hadith emphazizes the completness of the religion, that the religion of Islam is complete in and of itself, because in the hadith he warned us of adding something to this religion, whether it is a new concept, a new idea, a new aqeedah, a new philosophy whatever it is it doesn't matter.

Anything that is added to this religion we have to be aware of, Allah says in the Qur'an "Today I have completed your religion for you, perfected it for you"

Now I ask you, something that is perfect, is it in need of being added to? is it in need of being subtracted from? Something that is perfect, is perfect in and of itself. If you added something to it, then it would mean it's not perfect, if you took something away from it, then it would also mean it's not perfect.

we have to realise this religion of Islam is not the thought or philosopy of a human being it is from Allah (swt) and because Allah is all perfect and all knowledgabe this means the religion of Islam is perfect in all times and places.

We have to be aware and cautious against those people that try to renovate and innovate Islam, thinking that Islam is going to change from time, place and culture. There is no such thing as an American Islam, British Islam, Pakistani Islam, and a Arab Islam. There is only the Islam of the prophet Muhammed (saw).

We have to realise this and understand it, and this is something which many people in the west have a certain problem with, and the reason for this is because the western philosopy in general, it praises innovation, it praises change, it looks forward to it and wants things to change.

But I remind you, Innovation in and of itself implies in-perfection, BECAUSE if something was perfect it would not need to be innovated constantly. That is why the west when they're talking from an human perspective they look forward to innovation because they're talking about imperfect models as they stand, that is why they have different programmes, different philosophy's, different ways of advertising, different technologies, it keeps on changing with time and culture, this is because these things are based upon human thought and philosophy, of course they're going to require innovation.

But when it comes to Allah and his messenger, when it comes to the religion of Islam we have to realise this is from Allah (swt) we have to realise that the religion of Islam is only ONE! that is the one allah (swt) revealed through Gibrael to the prophet Muhamed (saw).

So we have to be cautious of this and we have to understand that when we presume, when we think, when we believe that we have to add something to this religion or change something, or something is backwards in this religion, then this automatically implies that we think Allah (swt) is not capable of revealing this religion and we seek refuge from this type of thought.

Because it automatically implies that Allah (swt) did not know the future, he did not know the situation that would arise for mankind and that they would have to go back to these situations and scenarios.

And we have to realise that Allah (swt) is the knower of everything, so I ask you brothers like the prophet (saw) said be aware of newly invented matters, whenever it comes to your religion go back to the Qur'an and sunnah, when it comes to your duniya innovate and renevate as you like but when it comes to the religion of Allah then take it back to the criterion which is the Qur'an and sunnah based upon the understanding of the companions.

I tell you, be aware of every single newly invented thing in this religion of Islam because every newly invented matter is a bid'a and every bid'a leads to misguidance and every misguidance is in the fire of hell".
Reply

Ummu Sufyaan
07-28-2010, 05:39 AM
:sl:
god, this thread is depressing.

This is not what I was referring to, furthermore we need to always stop pulling the "differences of opinion" card to suit our desires.
i keep thinking the same thing. Im not saying it in regards to this particular issue, but surely everything we don't agree with doesn't come down to a "difference of opinion." What about other sects, are they a difference of opinion? what about those who call out to the dead? god, please don't tell me that is a difference of opinion as well. what about the kuffar? is their kufr a difference of opinion too? my point? we just seem to lazy to spread and propagate the truth and fight against falsehood thus class everyone and everything as the same when Allah or rasoolullah, sallahu aleyhi wa sallam haven't. is just the typical excuse.

don't get me wrong, difference of opinion are good (and i maybe wrong in that indeed it maybe a difference of opinion) and we should be tactful about the way we go about things and the way we advise people-especially since we are brethren in faith, but at the same time, where is the line drawn? seriously.
like some things some other things people say is a difference of opinion, such as supplicating to the dead and that ahl us-Sunnah (ash3ari, athari, mataridi) is 3 (i know this isn't what is discussed but im just using it to illustrate my point since i feel i have more knowledge about this, then what is being discussed)...well where is the line drawn :hmm:


in the same respect that those who call out "bid3ah" should stop being "extreme" shouldn't those who get accused/advised of doing acts of bid3ah also look into what they are doing? isn't it a possibility that they could be in the wrong as well and (being a bit controversial here without pun intended) the scholars they follow? what about the ulmaa of today. couldn't the ulmaa of these days who spread the knowledge of people misunderstand something from the past scholars? distort their sayings? or just genuinely have misunderstood something?


and [thinking out aloud] about scholars of the past (again no pun intended), yes i know that 100+ of years of scholarship is credible, but couldn't those ulama have died before the truth came to them and another thing, who says that they cant be wrong and that the ulama of today can be right? who is to say that scholars of yesterday have the last word? why cant the scholars of today discovered something? i dont get it??? [/thinking out aloud]


secondly, why are we learning our deen in English?
Reply

Salahudeen
07-28-2010, 05:55 AM
Found the following article on Kalamullah, it's interesting.


The Islamic definition of Bid’ah:

Imaam Ash-Shaafi’i, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: “A Bid’ah is anything that has no basis in the Qur’aan, Sunnah or sayings of any of the companions.”

Ibn Al-Jawzi, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: “A Bid’ah is any form of worship that did not exist (at the time of the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam and his companions) then later it was innovated.”

Ibn Rajab, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: “A Bid’ah is any form of worship which has no basis in the Sharee’ah which would warrant its legislation.”

Ash-Shaatibi, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: “(A Bid’ah) is any matter which closely resembles the Sharee’ah and is intended to be a way of worshipping Allaah."

General rules to recognise Bid’ah:

1. Any act of worship is based on a fabricated Hadeeth is a Bid'ah, like the prayer in the month of Rajab which is called the prayer of Raghaa’ib.

2.Any act of worship which the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam did not perform, although there were no preventing factors is a Bid’ah, like uttering the intention before beginning the prayer, calling Adhaan for any prayer other than the five obligatory ones or praying after finishing Sa’y between mount Safaa and Marwah.

3. Any habitual act performed with the intention of pleasing Allaah which Islaam did not consider as an act or worship is a Bid'ah, such as for example: wearing coarse woollen clothes, continuous silence, refraining from eating bread or meat, not drinking cold water or standing in the sun.

4.Performing prohibitions acts with the intention of pleasing Allaah is a Bid'ah, such as singing songs about Him.

Moreover, all acts of worship must be performed in exactly the same manner as the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam did them. This cannot be achieved unless the following six conditions are fulfilled:

1. The act of worship must coincide with the Sharee’ah in the reason for which it is done, or else it would be rejected. Therefore, celebrating Al- Mawlid is a Bid’ah because it is performed as a
rewardable act, despite the fact that it has not been legislated.

2.The act of worship must coincide with the Sharee’ah in its category. Therefore, it is not acceptable if a person were to slaughter a horse instead of a camel or goat as a sacrifice after Hajj.

3. The act of worship must coincide with the Sharee’ah its quantity. Therefore, if somebody were to add two Rak’ah t o t h e Dhuhr prayer, making a total of six Rak'ah instead of four, this
would be unacceptable as it would not be coinciding with the Sharee’ah in its quantity.

4. The act of worship must coincide with the Sharee’ah in the manner in which it is performed. Therefore, if someone were to begin their wudoo' by washing their feet instead of their hands, then
this act would be unacceptable.

5. The act of worship must coincide with the Sharee’ah in the timing of its performance. Therefore, praying the Dhuhr prayer after sunset is unacceptable.

6. The act of worship must coincide with the Sharee’ah i n the place it which it is performed. Therefore, one cannot perform stand on a mountain other than ‘Arafah during Hajj.

The dangers of Bid’ah and their evil effects:

1. Bid’ah is a pre-cursor to disbelief.
2.Making unfounded statements on behalf of Allaah.
3.Correcting the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam or claiming that he had deficiencies.
4. Dividing the Muslim nation.
5. Abandoning the Sunnah.
6. Igniting disputes among the Muslims.
7. Accusing the Prophet of not completely conveying the message of Islaam.
8. Competing with the Prophets in their prophethood.
9. Altering the religion.

Claimed 'evidences' of the Innovators’ and their refutations:

Jareer Ibn ‘Abdullaah Al-Bujali may Allaah be pleased with him, narrated that the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said: “Whoever introduces a good practice in Islaam will get the reward of performing it and that of all those who perform it until the Day of Resurrection; Whoever introduces a bad practice in Islaam will get the punishment of performing it and that of all those
who do it until the Day of Resurrection.” (Muslim).

Refutation:

Imaam Ash-Shaatibi, may Allaah have mercy upon him, answered those who attempt to use this Hadeeth as evidence of the permissibility of innovating by saying: "Using this Hadeeth as an evidence (to innovate) implies that different evidences (Ahaadeeth) contradict one another (because in other Ahadeeth, the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam unequivocally warned against innovating)." Then he said: "The context of this Hadeeth is that it was said in a situation where charity was being given, and charity is something already legislated. The proof of this is actually to be found in the
very same Hadeeth, if you were to read it all, as

Jareer Ibn 'Abdullaah Al-Bujali, may Allaah be pleased with him, said: "We were with the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam (in the Masjid) just after dawn one day when some people entered barefooted and clad in woollen matting (or covered with sleeveless woollen blankets) with their swords hung around their necks. Most of them belonged to the tribe of Mudhar. The face of the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam turned pale due to their wretched condition. Then, the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam went into his house, re-emerged and commanded Bilaal to call the Adhaan, and the Iqaamah and then he sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam led the prayer. After the prayer, the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam stood up and addressed people saying (that which translates as): “O mankind! Fear your Lord, who created you from one soul and created from it its mate and dispersed from both of them many men and women. And fear Allaah, through whom you ask one another, and the wombs. Indeed Allaah is ever, over you, an Observer.” (An-Nisaa’: 1) “O you who have believed! Fear Allaah. And let every soul look to what it has put forth for tomorrow – and fear Allaah. Indeed, Allaah is Acquainted with what you do.” (Al-Hashr: 18).

Then, the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said: “Give in charity from (what you possess of) Deenaars (gold coins) Dirhams (silver coins) a Saa’ (a small measure of weight) of wheat or even a Saa’ of dates.” until he sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said: “Give, even if it as little as half a date” Thereupon, a man from the Ansaar (residents of Madeenah) came with a bag of food which was so heavy that it was difficult for him to carry. Thereafter, people came successively until I saw two huge piles of food and clothes, and the Prophet’s face was bright as a glittering golden coin (due to his happiness). Then the Messenger sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said: “Whoever introduces a good practice in Islaam will get the reward of performing it and that of all those who perform it until the Day of Resurrection; Whoever introduces a bad practice in Islaam will get the punishment of performing it and that of all those who do it until the Day of Resurrection.”" (Muslim).

Therefore, it is obvious that this Hadeeth refers to deeds that are already legislated and proven to already exist in the religion, which in this case was charity given by a certain companion of the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wasallam.


Claimed Evidence:

‘Umar ibn Al-Khattaab, may Allaah be pleased with him, remarked upon seeing people playing Taraaweeh in congregation that: "This is a good Bid’ah." (Bukhaari).

Refutation:

Imaam Ibn Rajab, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: "Any words from the Salaf considering something as a good Bid’ah were meant in the linguistic and not the Islamic sense, such as the saying of ‘Umar, may Allaah be pleased with him, when he saw people praying Taraaweeh in congregation, that "This is a good Bid’ah.""


Claimed Evidence:

Ibn Mas’ood, may Allaah be pleased with him, said: "What the Muslims see as good is good in the sight of Allaah and what they see as bad is bad in the sight of Allaah." (Ahmad).

Refutation:

As-Sindi, may Allaah have mercy upon him said: "It is obvious that he was referring to the companions of the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam and he was talking exclusively about those things that they had a unanimous consensus on, it does not include others. This is besides the fact that these were the words of a companion and not the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wasallam."

Claimed Evidence:

Al-‘Izz Ibn ‘Abdus-Salaam, may Allaah have mercy upon him, divided Bid’ah into five categories: obligatory, recommended, permissible, disliked and prohibited.

Refutation:

Ash-Shaatibi, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: "This categorisation of Bid’ah is something new which has no supportive evidence to it, moreover, it contradicts the definition of Bid’ah, because any deed which has an evidence which legislates it to be obligatory, recommended or allowed is by definition not an innovation, and it would have been included in the general recommendation of good deeds. Therefore, considering a matter to be a Bid’ah yet claiming the existence of an evidence to recommend it is a contradiction in terms."

Reasons behind innovations:

Ignorance of the religion of Islaam.
Following ones whims.
Clinging to doubts.
The sole use of ration with no reference to the Islamic texts (Qur'aan and Sunnah).
Islamic Scholars not fulfilling their expected role.
Dependence on weak or fabricated Ahaadeeth
Extreme reactions to others errors
The failure to limit ones understanding of the Islamic texts to that of the companions of the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam.
Blind imitation of the masses
Not following the instructions of sincere scholars.

Ways to eradicate Bid’ah:

1.Warning against the dangers of Bid’ah a nd its evil effects.
2.Calling people to adhere to the Qur’aan and Sunnah,with the understanding of the Salaf.
3. Distinguishing between weak and the authentic Ahaadeeth.
4.Purifying the schools of jurisprudence from the innovation of fanaticism towards them.
5. Spreading knowledge and correcting the peoples understanding of faith, worship and financialtransactions.
6. Warning against and subduing the innovators
7.Receiving knowledge from the correct sources; i.e., the sincere guided Islamic scholars.

Related Qur’anic verses:

Allaah says that which translates as: “And do not be like those who became divided and differed after the clear proofs had come to them. And they will have a great punishment.” (Aal ‘Imraan: 105). Al-Qurtubi, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: "This verse refers to the Jews and the Christians according to the majority of the scholars, but others have said that it refers to innovators within the Muslim nation."


Allaah says that which translates as: “On the Day [some] faces will turn white and [some] faces will turn black, [to them it will be said]: 'Did you disbelieve [i.e., reject faith] after your belief? Then taste the punishment for what you used to reject.'” (Aal ‘Imraan: 106). Ibn ‘Abbaas, may Allaah be pleased with him, said concerning this verse: "The faces of the people who adhered to the Sunnah will turn white and bright, while the faces of the innovators will turn black and gloomy". Al-Qurtubi, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: "He who innovates or changes anything of the religion of Allaah will be amongst the black faced people who will be prevented from reaching the Prophet’s fountain and therefore prohibited from drinking from it".


Allaah says that which translates as: “And whoever opposes the Messenger after guidance has become clear to him and follows other than the way of the believers – We will give him what he has taken [i.e., make him responsible for his choice] and drive him into Hell, and evil it is as a destination.” (An-Nisaa’: 115). Imaam Ibn Katheer, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said concerning this verse: "This refers to those who take a path other than the one which the Messenger sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam came with; so they became on one side and the Sharee’ah on the other, despite the fact that the truth had become clear to them and they knew this."

Allaah says that which translates as: “…This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favour upon you and have approved for you Islaam as a religion…” (Al-Maa’idah: 3). Imaam Maalik, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said concerning this verse: "He who innovates a new Bid’ah in Islaam considering it to be something good is in effect claiming that Muhammad sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam did not fully convey the message of Islaam… So whatever was not a part of the religion at that time (i.e., the time of the Prophet and his companions) cannot be considered as a
part of the religion today." Imaam Ibn Katheer, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: "One of the greatest bounties from Allaah upon the Muslim nation is that He completed and perfected the religion of Islaam for them, so they have no need of any other religion or Prophet other than their Prophet.

This is precisely why Allaah made Muhammad sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam the seal of all Prophets and sent him to the Jinn as well as mankind. The only matters which are lawful are those that the Messenger sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam made lawful and the only matters which are unlawful are those which he made unlawful. The only things that can be considered as part of the religion of Islaam are those which he conveyed; and that which he did not convey can never and will never be part of the religion. Everything that the Messenger sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said was true and correct without even a trace of error or dishonesty."

Allaah says that which translates as: “And [Moreover], this is my path. Which is straight, so follow it; and do not follow [other] ways, for you will be separated from His way. This has He instructed you so that you may become righteous.” (Al-An’aam: 153).

Mujaahid, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said concerning this verse: "The other ways mentioned are desires and innovations." Ibn Mas’ood, may Allaah be pleased with him, was asked about 'the straight path', he replied: "Muhammad sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam left us standing at its beginning and it ends in Paradise. There are fast horses on its right and its left (indicating the speed with which they would lead one to Hell) with men inviting those who pass by (on the straight path) to come with them; so whoever responds to their invitation will be lead rapidly into the Hellfire, and whoever remains on the straight path will be lead to Paradise."


Allaah says that which translates as: “[They are] those whose effort is lost in worldly life, while they think they are doing well in work.” (Al-Kahf: 104) Imaam AtTabari, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said concerning this verse: "‘It refers to anyone who did an act thinking it to be correct and something that was in obedience to Allaah and something that pleased him, while in reality, it was a way of disobeying Allaah and straying away from the path of the believers."


Allaah says that which translates as: “So let those beware who dissent from his [i.e., the Prophet's] order lest trials strike them or a painful punishment.” (An- Noor: 63) Imaam Ibn Katheer, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said concerning this verse: "It refers to those who differ from the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam in any way, whether in his Sunnah, Sharee’ah or methodology. All words and deeds must be weighed according to his words and deeds, if they coincide then that is acceptable, otherwise, it will be rejected by Allaah regardless of who these words and deeds came
from, as the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said: “He who does something which is not according to what we (i.e., the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam and his companions) are upon, then it is rejected (by Allaah)” (Muslim)."

Related Ahaadeeth:

Anas Ibn Maalik, may Allaah be pleased with him, narrated that the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said: “Allaah does not accept the repentance of an innovator until he abandons his innovation” (At- Tabaraani & Bayhaqi). Sufyaan Ath-Thawri, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: "An innovation is dearer to Satan than a sin, for one can easily repent from a sin, but an innovation is not easily repented from (as an innovator thinks that he is on the correct path)."


Al-‘Irbaadh Ibn saariyah, may Allaah be pleased with him, narrated that the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said: “He who lives long enough will see many things which he will not recognise, therefore, hold on to my Sunnah and that of the rightly guided caliphs who succeed me; bite onto it (i.e., my Sunnah) with your molars. Stay away from innovations, because every innovation is misguidance.” (Ahmad & Abu Dawood)


Shaykh Al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: "Anyone who performs an act which is neither compulsory nor recommended, and intends for this to be an act of
worship, and believes it to be compulsory or recommended, is misguided and has innovated an evil Bid’ah according to the consensus of the Muslim scholars". Ibn Rajab, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: "Anything newly introduced into the religion with no basis or reference in the Qur’aan or Sunnah is a misguidance, and the religion of Islaam has nothing to do with it."


‘Aa’ishah, may Allaah be pleased with her, narrated that the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said: “He who does something which is not according to what we (i.e., the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam and hiscompanions) are upon then it is rejected.” (Bukhaari & Muslim). Ibn Rajab, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: "Anyone who attempts to draw nearer to Allaah(i.e. please Him) by performing an act which neither Allaah nor His Messenger sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam legislated as an act which pleases Allaah, will have that act rejected by Him."


‘Abdullaah Ibn Mas’ood, may Allaah be pleased with him, narrated that the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said: “I will be ahead of you in reaching my fountain, and there will be people who will be prevented from reaching it, therefore, I will say: 'My Lord! These are my followers!' It will be said: 'You do not know what they innovated and altered after you.' (i.e., after your death) Therefore, I will say: 'Let those who altered (the religion) b e k e p t a w a y . (in a humiliated place).” (Bukhaari & Muslim).



‘Abdullaah Ibn ‘Amr Ibn Al-‘Aas, may Allaah be pleased with him, narrated that the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said: “It was mandatory upon each of the Prophets who came before me to guide their nations to all that was good for them, and warn them against all that was evil for them” (Muslim). It was asked of Salmaan Al-Faarisi, may Allaah be pleased with him: "Your Prophet taught you everything, even what to do when using the toilet?" he replied: "Yes, he forbade us from facing the Qiblah (direction of prayer), and to clean ourselves afterwards using the right hand…"
(Muslim).

Abu Ad-Dardaa’, may Allaah be pleased with him, narrated that the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said: “I swear by Allaah that I have left you with it (i.e., the religion) so clear that it is as clear at night as it is during the day (i.e., patently obvious) and only a doomed person will stray away from it.” (Ibn Maajah).

Abu Dharr, may Allaah be pleased with him, said: "The Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam told us about everything before his death, even (something as seemingly insignificant as) the birds in the sky." (Ahmad). Ash-Shaatibi, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: "From this narration, we know that there is no room for anybody’s opinion in matters of worship and that the only thing people must do is restrict themselves to the boundaries set by the Messenger sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam."

‘Umar Ibn Al-Khattaab, may Allaah be pleased with him, narrated that the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said: “Do not praise me (excessively) as the Christians praised ‘Eesaa the son of Maryam, I am but the slave of Allaah, so call me the slave and Messenger of Allaah” (Bukhaari).

Related words of the Salaf:

Ibn Mas’ood, may Allaah be pleased with him, said: "Follow (the Sunnah) and do not innovate, because you have been sufficed." (Ad-Daarimi). He also said: "Practicing a little of the Sunnah is far better than practicing many innovations." (Al-Haakim).

Hudhayfah Ibn Al-Yamaan, may Allaah be pleased with him, said: "Do not perform any act of worship which was not practiced by the companions of the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam because the early people (i.e. his companions) did not leave anything un addressed…so follow the way of those who were before you."

A man came to Ibn ‘Abbaas, may Allaah be pleased with him, and said: "Advise me" so he replied: "Fear Allaah, follow (the Sunnah) and do not innovate."

Al-Awzaa’i, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: "Persevere on adherence to the Sunnah; stop where they (the companions of the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) stopped; refrain from what they refrained from and follow the way of the Salaf because what sufficed them will suffice you."

Related stories:


Ibn ‘Abbaas, may Allaah be pleased with him, was circumambulating the Ka’bah with Mu’aawiyah Ibn Abu Sufyaan, may Allaah be pleased with him and his father, during Mu’aawiyah’s reign. Mu’aawiyah would touch all four corners of the Ka’bah while circumambulating and so Ibn ‘Abbaas remarked: "The Prophet only touched two corners (the black stone and the Yemeni corner)"

Mu’aawiyah replied: "No part of the house of Allaah should be neglected." Thereupon, Ibn ‘Abbaas recited (that which translates as): “There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allaah an excellent pattern (i.e., example to be followed) for anyone whose hope is in Allaah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allaah often.” (Al-Ahzaab: 21). Upon hearing this, Mu’aawiyah refrained.

Sa’eed Ibn Al-Musayyib, may Allaah have mercy upon him, saw a man praying too many optional prayers before the Fajr prayer and therefore he forbade him from doing so. The man retorted: "O Abu Muhammad! Will Allaah punish me for praying?" Sa'eed replied: "No, but He will punish you for doing other than the Sunnah."

A man asked Imaam Maalik, may Allaah have mercy upon him: "At which point do I initiate my state of Ihraam?" he replied: "From Thul Hulayfah - where the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam did so" the man retorted: "I wish to do it from the area beside the grave of the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam" Imaam Maalik said: "Do not do that, for I fear that if you do so, you will be afflicted with trials" the man replied: "Why would I be afflicted with trials? All I wanted was to do it from a place which is only a few miles away from where you told me!" Imaam Maalik said upon hearing this:
"What can be more serious than feeling that you performed a righteous deed that the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam failed to do? I heard the saying of Allaah (which translates as): “So let those beware who dissent from his [i.e., the Prophet's] order lest trials strike them or a painful punishment.”"(An-Noor: 63)

Source: http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Bidah.pdf
Reply

AhmadibnNasroon
07-28-2010, 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by Muraad
:sl:

You don't need to worry, Im not going to delete your post just because I have a different opinion than you. I don't think Ive deleted posts for quite a while actually :hmm:



Didn't you say the following: "Concerning the middle of Sha3ban, then some posters are glorifying it and mentioning that we should act upon it, praying and fasting and the sort, and know that this is deviation. "

And didn't Ibn Taymiyyah say clearly: If a person were to pray on the 15th Night, whether alone or in specific congregation, as did groups form the early generations, then this is excellent (فهو أحسن).

I'd say he was not only glorifying it but also mentioning that we should act on it.

Do you acknowledge that Ibn Taymiyyah did i) acknowledge that the 15th of Sha'ban was a difference of opinion amongst the jurists, and ii) that he held it completely fine for people to pray in it together or in congregation actually saying it was excellent to do so?

See, I'm not trying to prove I'm right or that you're wrong - You can follow whatever you like. I'm just trying to get you to understand that there is a difference of opinion on this night and that if you hold view x (which is legitimate) then you should also tolerate view y (which is also legitimate). That's all.

You see the difference here is that you're not Abdullah Ibn Abbas (r.a.) and I'm not quoting Abu Bakr or 'Umar. (r.a.). Both sides are quoting different scholars and both are using ahadeeth to support our views via the scholars that understood them a certain way. Regarding the half of Sha'ban, there are ahadeeth that are used by both sides and the difference of opinion is about the usage of those ahadeeth - not about following the Messenger (saw) or other than him. Both sides are trying their best to follow the Messenger (saw) albeit they are approaching it in two different ways and this approach is what we're talking about.

We agree on the fundamentals (the 'Usool) but we're differing over the branches (the furu') and we need to remember that and not turn the discussion into differing in regards to the 'Usool. And unfortunetly that's what the mentality I was talking about earlier does - it turns the issue of legitimate differences amongst the furu' into an issue regarding the Usool and that's where the problem lies.
Islamic legal theory, or usul al-fiqh, identifies two spheres of rulings. Issues about which jurists unanimously agree (mujma‘ ‘alayhi), and those wherein they differ (mukhtalif fihi). According to this juristic schema, issues in which there is juristic agreement about - because of the proof-texts being decisive in authenticity, as well as univocal and clear-cut in meaning - are referred to as 'usul, or fundamentals. Contravening them opens a person to legitimate censure, as per the famous hadith: “If anyone of you sees an evil, let him change it with his hand; if he is unable to do so, then with his tongue; and if he is unable to do this, then with his heart - and that is the weakest of faith.” Issues wherein the actual proof-texts are inconclusive in their authenticities, or equivocal and open to more than one legitimate reading, are known as furu‘; branches.* Here, the jurists of Sunni Islam are guided by the legal maxim: “lā inkār fī masāil al-khilāf - there can be no censure in issues of [legitimate] differing.” One need not spend a great deal of time reading through classical tracts on the duty of commanding good and forbidding evil before encountering an articulation of this famous principle.

Imam Ibn Daqiq al-‘Id, the outstanding Shafi‘ jurist, stipulates: “Scholars only censure what is agreed upon [as being wrong]. As for what is differed over, there is to be no censure of it.”**

*Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmu' Fatawa, 24:172;
**Sharh˙ al-Arba'in al-Nawawiyyah
So this is my point. The jurists have different over thousands of issues from the furu' using the EXACT same evidences - I'm talking about the same EXACT ayaat and ahadeeth and they've reached different conclusions. We need to be able to appreciate and understand why and not claim people are deviated or are insincere towards the sunnah just because they hold a different opinion.
Akhi, my sincere advice to you would be to stop throwing out accusations on those that differ with you. You just accused everyone that holds a different opinion than you on the 15th of Sha'ban as following their desires (again throwing Ibn Taymiyyah under the same banner). Let's not get emotional on these issues.

Of course, and that's why when it comes to the Usool of the religion there is no getting relaxed - thats where the person gets censured. But when it comes to issues of the furu', there is room for a difference of opinion.

I think I'm handling it just well akhi. If you noticed, Im not debating regarding whether the 15th of Sha'ban is legitimate or not, that's not worth it. Rather, Im just trying to get you to understand that there does exist a difference of opinion amongst the Fuqaha. Once that's understood, you can follow whatever opinion you want, I have no problem.

I'm doing exactly that. A year ago, I was throwing out the word bid'ah in regards to the 15th of Sha'ban left and right. But after taking the time to understand why there is a difference of opinion and who held what opinion, it allowed me to see past the fatwas from different websites and understand that the issue is not as black and white as its made out to be.
I am not accusing Sh. al Islaam of deviation, he was a mujtahid mutlaq and accusing him of deviation would be ludicrous. However he was a scholar who derived rulings through usool, but who are people like you and I? Shaykh al Islaam, Abu Haneefah, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, ibn Uthaymeen, etc were all great scholars of Islam who used the Qur'an and Sunnah to derive their rulings on such matters so they can fully explain themselves, but again, who are we? Does it suffice us to just say, "Shaykh so and so said its ok so therefore thats our proof." Of course not, our deen is Qur'an and Sunnah is it not? And merely just saying so and so said its ok doesnt legitimize it, unless you are a scholar that can defend the position. But if we know that the scholars of hadeeth have graded such narrations as being weak and fabricated, then how can we just reach for the difference of opinion card?

How long are we going to hide behind the guise of taqleed and ta'assub? This is why I mentioned the athar of Abdullah ibn Abbas, I am not ibn Abbas, of course not, but that was not the reason I quoted him; because what happens is someone mentions the Qur'an or Sunnah, and clarifies the issue as the ulemma have, then someone else comes along and says, "shaykh so and so said this". Sub7anAllah, Imam Ahmad warned us against this and it is the madhab of the fuqahaa to abandon opinions in light of the text.

If everything is a difference of opinion, then lets never condemn haram. Everyone always goes fatwa shopping on issues so they can legitimize their desires or what they do. Some of ahlu'3ilm were of the opinion that mut3ah is still permissible and ibn Kathir mentions it in his al Maghazi (Seerah'tul Nabawi), so now lets just say that the shi3a are correct and anyone who decides to do mut3ah is correct because some scholar said its ok. Sub7anAllah, whats next? Music is halal too? al Qurtubi and ibn Hazm were of the opinion that it is halal, so now can we say to the people that glorify and listen to musical instruments or singing that its ok? Where do we draw the line? When did our deen become qala fulan ibn fulan and not qala'Allah, qala'Rasoolillah? Just recently Sh. Adel al Kalbani came out and said music is halal, so now everytime someone wants to legitimize their position they can say, "brother its a legitimate difference of opinion amongst the scholars"???

Whats next? Riba'a in the non Muslim countries is halal too?!?!?! This is the opinion of some of ahnaaf and some of the ahnaaf took the opinion that not all intoxicants is khamr despite the hadeeth stating as such. So now everytime a Muslim lives in dar'ul kufr/dar'u harb, he can simply consume riba'a and claim that scholars said its ok?

There are countless examples of this, so please don't try to put me down for standing up for what is haq and abandoning innovations and doubtful matters.

Again, the hadeeth of Nu3man ibn Bashir radiallaahu anhu, "Truly, what is lawful is evident, and what is unlawful is evident, and in between the two are matters which are doubtful which many people do not know. He who guards against doubtful things keeps his religion and honour blameless, and he who indulges in doubtful things indulges in fact in unlawful things, just as a shepherd who pastures his flock round a preserve will soon pasture them in it. Beware, every king has a preserve, and the things Allah has declared unlawful are His preserves. Beware, in the body there is a flesh; if it is sound, the whole body is sound, and if it is corrupt, the whole body is corrupt, and behold, it is the heart."

Anyway, I was not trying to insult you brother so I apologize if I did. And I apologize to other posters if I offended them as well.
Reply

Sister Unknown
07-28-2010, 03:49 PM
This is why it is reported on the Imaam of Daar-ul-Hijrah (Madeenah), Imaam Maalik Ibn Anas, may Allaah have mercy on him, that he said: "Whosoever introduces into Islaam an innovation, which he deems is good, then he has claimed that Muhammad (saws) has betrayed (the trust of conveying) the Message. Read the saying of Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic: 'This day I have completed your Religion for you, and I have perfected My favor upon you, and I am pleased with Islaam as a Religion for you.' [Surat-ul-Maa’idah:3] So whatever was not (part of) the Religion on that day, is not (part of) the Religion on this day. And the last part of this ummah (nation) will not be rectified, except by that which rectified its first part."
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
07-28-2010, 03:52 PM
Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
:sl:
:w:

To really understand these issues, I would suggest that you study Usool al-Fiqh because it fosters an understanding of these issues of Law. Not only that it expands one's understanding and tolerance as to why scholars differ over issues even if some hold something to be an innovation like some do for the 15th of Sha'ban.

i keep thinking the same thing. Im not saying it in regards to this particular issue, but surely everything we don't agree with doesn't come down to a "difference of opinion."
There is no reason for it not to come down to a difference of opinion IF it is not from the fundamentals of the religion.

What about other sects, are they a difference of opinion? what about those who call out to the dead? god, please don't tell me that is a difference of opinion as well. what about the kuffar? is their kufr a difference of opinion too? my point? we just seem to lazy to spread and propagate the truth and fight against falsehood thus class everyone and everything as the same when Allah or rasoolullah, sallahu aleyhi wa sallam haven't. is just the typical excuse.
This is what I mean, these examples you are bringing forth are from the matters of Usool wherein there is no difference of opinion as the Usool are constant. So there is no disagreement here. This argument (for a lack of better word) is irrelevant because the matter (i.e. the 15th of Sha'ban) being discussed is not from the Usool.

don't get me wrong, difference of opinion are good (and i maybe wrong in that indeed it maybe a difference of opinion) and we should be tactful about the way we go about things and the way we advise people-especially since we are brethren in faith, but at the same time, where is the line drawn? seriously.
The line is drawn when the matter stops being from the branches of the religion and enters into the realm of the fundamentals such as where it starts infringing upon Tawheed for example.

like some things some other things people say is a difference of opinion, such as supplicating to the dead and that ahl us-Sunnah (ash3ari, athari, mataridi) is 3 (i know this isn't what is discussed but im just using it to illustrate my point since i feel i have more knowledge about this, then what is being discussed)...well where is the line drawn :hmm:
See right here you're confusing something that is from the Usool (that calling out to the dead infringes upon Tawheed) to something that is from the furu' (the differences between the three schools which is something that the everyday Muslim has no need to know about).

Don't get me wrong, I personally follow the athari school but as someone living in the West, I don't think there is any benefit whatsoever in bringing these issues up to the masses when there are other more important issues that need to be dealt with. I mean people are very equipped to refute Jahm b. Safwan who lived a thousand years ago, but where are the brothers and sisters that can refute the ideological attack of Darwin and atheism?

in the same respect that those who call out "bid3ah" should stop being "extreme" shouldn't those who get accused/advised of doing acts of bid3ah also look into what they are doing? isn't it a possibility that they could be in the wrong as well and (being a bit controversial here without pun intended) the scholars they follow? what about the ulmaa of today. couldn't the ulmaa of these days who spread the knowledge of people misunderstand something from the past scholars? distort their sayings? or just genuinely have misunderstood something?

and [thinking out aloud] about scholars of the past (again no pun intended), yes i know that 100+ of years of scholarship is credible, but couldn't those ulama have died before the truth came to them and another thing, who says that they cant be wrong and that the ulama of today can be right? who is to say that scholars of yesterday have the last word? why cant the scholars of today discovered something? i dont get it??? [/thinking out aloud]
Of course they should stop being extreme. But you have to understand that Islamic Law is not something simplistic and watered down where things "should" be a certain way and scholars "should" act or be a certain way. I can't really explain this concept that Im trying to get at regarding Usul al-Fiqh to you via this medium so I'll ask you to listen to this talk by Imam Suhaib where he actually breaks down this point really well:

http://vimeo.com/11257397
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
07-28-2010, 04:19 PM
Originally Posted by AhmadibnNasroon
I am not accusing Sh. al Islaam of deviation, he was a mujtahid mutlaq and accusing him of deviation would be ludicrous. However he was a scholar who derived rulings through usool, but who are people like you and I? Shaykh al Islaam, Abu Haneefah, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, ibn Uthaymeen, etc were all great scholars of Islam who used the Qur'an and Sunnah to derive their rulings on such matters so they can fully explain themselves, but again, who are we?
Then I'm left wondering why are you so adamant in sticking to those who call it an innovation when it's clear that other scholars who are of the same caliber, if not greater or more numerous held a divergent view? Is it because the individual that calls something a bid'ah is automatically deemed correct?

Again, for it is irrelevant which position you hold - I'm just trying to get you to understand that there is a legitimate difference of opinion here and no matter how one tries to turn the issue into black and white it just cannot be turned into that.

Does it suffice us to just say, "Shaykh so and so said its ok so therefore thats our proof." Of course not, our deen is Qur'an and Sunnah is it not? And merely just saying so and so said its ok doesnt legitimize it, unless you are a scholar that can defend the position. But if we know that the scholars of hadeeth have graded such narrations as being weak and fabricated, then how can we just reach for the difference of opinion card?
I think it's the other way around - you can't say its 'so and so' using evidence unless you are a scholar and can defend a position because you lack the knowledge and scholarship of the maxims and intricacies of law to say such things. A lay person has nothing else except to follow a scholar he feels comfortable with as that's what's incumbent upon him.


How long are we going to hide behind the guise of taqleed and ta'assub? This is why I mentioned the athar of Abdullah ibn Abbas, I am not ibn Abbas, of course not, but that was not the reason I quoted him; because what happens is someone mentions the Qur'an or Sunnah, and clarifies the issue as the ulemma have, then someone else comes along and says, "shaykh so and so said this". Sub7anAllah, Imam Ahmad warned us against this and it is the madhab of the fuqahaa to abandon opinions in light of the text.
That's my point - you're clarifying the issue using ONE position amongst the 'Ulema and just because you believe it's closer to the truth doesn't necessarily mean that everyone else has to. Because just as you have 'Ulema to prove your position using the Qur'an and Sunnah, the other side has exactly the same. Why? Because this is not from the foundations of the religion.

If everything is a difference of opinion, then lets never condemn haram. Everyone always goes fatwa shopping on issues so they can legitimize their desires or what they do. Some of ahlu'3ilm were of the opinion that mut3ah is still permissible and ibn Kathir mentions it in his al Maghazi (Seerah'tul Nabawi), so now lets just say that the shi3a are correct and anyone who decides to do mut3ah is correct because some scholar said its ok. Sub7anAllah, whats next? Music is halal too? al Qurtubi and ibn Hazm were of the opinion that it is halal, so now can we say to the people that glorify and listen to musical instruments or singing that its ok? Where do we draw the line? When did our deen become qala fulan ibn fulan and not qala'Allah, qala'Rasoolillah? Just recently Sh. Adel al Kalbani came out and said music is halal, so now everytime someone wants to legitimize their position they can say, "brother its a legitimate difference of opinion amongst the scholars"???

Whats next? Riba'a in the non Muslim countries is halal too?!?!?! This is the opinion of some of ahnaaf and some of the ahnaaf took the opinion that not all intoxicants is khamr despite the hadeeth stating as such. So now everytime a Muslim lives in dar'ul kufr/dar'u harb, he can simply consume riba'a and claim that scholars said its ok?
These are only emotional and strawmen arguments that have nothing to do with what is being mentioned here. These are issues that are beyond the point so lets not even get into them. They are specific issues that are beyond the level of discussion for both of us (Im sure) so lets leave that up to the scholars.

There are countless examples of this, so please don't try to put me down for standing up for what is haq and abandoning innovations and doubtful matters.
Just a reminder, it is arrogance to assume that the haq is solely with oneself and not with anyone else.

Anyway, I was not trying to insult you brother so I apologize if I did. And I apologize to other posters if I offended them as well.
Likewise, and no offense taken. I'd rather have a discussion with people then talk to someone who doesn't question anything at all.
Reply

Zafran
07-28-2010, 08:32 PM
Umar ibn Al-Khattaab, may Allaah be pleased with him, remarked upon seeing people playing Taraaweeh in congregation that: "This is a good Bid’ah." (Bukhaari).

Refutation:

Imaam Ibn Rajab, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: "Any words from the Salaf considering something as a good Bid’ah were meant in the linguistic and not the Islamic sense, such as the saying of ‘Umar, may Allaah be pleased with him, when he saw people praying Taraaweeh in congregation, that "This is a good Bid’ah.""
what does it mean when it says linguistic bida?

Al-‘Izz Ibn ‘Abdus-Salaam, may Allaah have mercy upon him, divided Bid’ah into five categories: obligatory, recommended, permissible, disliked and prohibited.

Refutation:

Ash-Shaatibi, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said: "This categorisation of Bid’ah is something new which has no supportive evidence to it, moreover, it contradicts the definition of Bid’ah, because any deed which has an evidence which legislates it to be obligatory, recommended or allowed is by definition not an innovation, and it would have been included in the general recommendation of good deeds. Therefore, considering a matter to be a Bid’ah yet claiming the existence of an evidence to recommend it is a contradiction in terms."
Does this not show that there is actually differences of opnion when it comes to Bida as Ash-Shaatibi(ra) disagrees with Al Izz ibn Abdu Salem (ra).
Reply

Salahudeen
07-29-2010, 12:48 AM
Shaikhul-Islam explained that if Allah's Messenger in his lifetime indicates that a certain action is recommended (Mustahabb) or obligatory but it is not acted upon until after his death then such an action is linguistically called Bidah because it is a new action. Shaikhul-Islam further explained that during the life-time of Allah's Messenger , people used to establish the Qiyam of Ramadaan in Jama'ah, but on the third or fourth night Allah's Messenger explained that nothing prohibited him from coming out to pray with the companions except the fear that Taraweeh might be made obligatory upon the Ummah...

So, the excuse of not coming out to pray was the fear of obligation and it is established that if there was no such fear then Allah's Messenger would havecomeout. This fear was not existent at the time of Umar (because the revelation was completed). Umar thus gathered the people behind one Imam and the mosque was lit up (with the people who joined in the Jama'ah) and this (delightful) atmosphere came into existence.

This action of gathering in the mosque behind one Imam was not carried out by the people prior to this day and thus, Umar called it a Bidah because it is a new action in the linguistic form. It is not a Bidah in the Sharee'ah because the Sunnah has established that praying Taraweeh in groups is a righteous action, if there was no fear of obligation, and this fear vanishedwith the death of Allah's Messenger ...”

See, Iqtida Sirat al-Mustaqeem.
Quoted from 'Hukm al-Ihtifal bil-Mawlid war-Radd ala man ajaaz'
by Shaikh Muhammad ibn Ibraheem Aal-Shaikh (rahimahullah)


As far as Taraweeh is concerned

Allah's Messenger performed Taraweeh with his Sahabah but he later discontinued it fearing that Taraweeh might become an obligatory duty upon the Muslims. However, the Sahabah continued prayingTaraweeh in separate groups during the life of Allah's Messenger and after his death until Umar gathered them behind one Imam like they used to pray behind Allah's Messenger and so, this is not a Bidah in the religion.


Shaikhul-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (rahimahullah) also explained that Salaat Taraweeh is not a Bidah in the Sharee'ah rather it is a Sunnah of Allah's Messenger because he performed it and said, “Allah has made the fasts of Ramadaan obligatory upon you and made Qiyaam a Sunnah.”

Praying Taraweeh in the Jama'ah is also not a Bidah because Allah's Messenger is known to have performed this prayer in Jama'ah in the beginning of the Ramadaan for two nights, rather three nights.

The Prophet also established this Salaat many times during the last ten days and he said, “If a man prays behind the Imam until he (the Imam) completes his prayer then the reward of performing Qiyaam during the whole night will be recorded for him.”

This saying of the Prophet is an encouragement to perform Qiyaam behind the Imam and it further establishes that Qiyaam is a Sunnah and people used to pray in groups during his time and he approved of them and approval of the Prophet is a Sunnah.

See, Iqtida Sirat al-Mustaqeem.
Quoted from 'Hukm al-Ihtifal bil-Mawlid war-Radd ala man ajaaz'
by Shaikh Muhammad ibn Ibraheem Aal-Shaikh (rahimahullah)
Reply

ardianto
07-29-2010, 04:40 AM
Uttering intention before beginning the prayer is not bid'ah, but just a diversity in Fiqh.

Another example of diversity in fiqh is hand position in salat. There are Muslims who fold their hands on chest, there are Muslims who fold their hands on belly, there are Muslims who do not fold their hands.

I understand if there are brothers and sisters who want to remind us to avoid bid'ah. But unfortunately, I found some of them have through the limit. They clasify diversity in fiqh as bid'ah. Even, later I found they issued a statement if follow madhaab is bid'ah because madhaabs were not exist during period of Rasulullah Sallallahu Alaihi Wasalam.
Reply

cat eyes
07-29-2010, 06:23 PM
Originally Posted by Zafran
salaam

re read some of things posted by posters before - I dont have the time to keep going over and over again.

peace
you give short answers for everything but then you don't explain. you see when a person don't have knowledge about a certain thing. they shouldn't speak.

salaam
Reply

Zafran
07-29-2010, 06:52 PM
Originally Posted by cat eyes


you give short answers for everything but then you don't explain. you see when a person don't have knowledge about a certain thing. they shouldn't speak.

salaam
Salaam

I have done enough research to know that there are a differences of opnion on this issue - you have no idea how much I know and how much I dont.

What do you want a copy and paste job just the way everybody else is doing on this thread? I can easily provide that and have done. So have other posters.

Peace
Reply

cat eyes
07-29-2010, 07:20 PM
Originally Posted by Zafran
Salaam

I have done enough research to know that there are a differences of opnion on this issue - you have no idea how much I know and how much I dont.

What do you want a copy and paste job just the way everybody else is doing on this thread? I can easily provide that and have done. So have other posters.

Peace
yes that would be helpful
Reply

Zafran
07-29-2010, 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by cat eyes

yes that would be helpful
what would be?
Reply

Danah
08-12-2010, 02:54 PM
:sl:

I came to this article about Bid'ah and I think its very important to everyone to read it so since this thread is about bid'ah I will just post it here instead of creating a new one.

:w:
Reply

Tawangar
11-28-2010, 08:50 AM
Originally Posted by Insaanah

:sl:

Laylat al-Nusf min Sha’baan (the middle of Sha’baan) should not be singled out for worship


I read in a book that fasting on the middle of Sha’baan is a kind of bid’ah, but in another book I read that one of the days on which it is mustahabb to fast is the middle of Sha’baan… what is the definitive ruling on this?

Praise be to Allaah.

There is no saheeh marfoo’ report that speaks of the virtue of the middle of Sha’baan that may be followed, not even in the chapters on al-Fadaa’il (chapters on virtues in books of hadeeth etc.). Some maqtoo’ reports (reports whose isnaads do not go back further than the Taabi’een) have been narrated from some of the Taabi’een, and there are some ahaadeeth, the best of which are mawdoo’ (fabricated) or da’eef jiddan (very weak). These reports became very well known in some countries which were overwhelmed by ignorance; these reports suggest that people’s lifespans are written on that day or that it is decided on that day who is to die in the coming year. On this basis, it is not prescribed to spend this night in prayer or to fast on this day, or to single it out for certain acts of worship. One should not be deceived by the large numbers of ignorant people who do these things. And Allaah knows best.

Shaykh Ibn Jibreen.

If a person wants to pray qiyaam on this night as he does on other nights – without doing anything extra or singling this night out for anything – then that is OK. The same applies if he fasts the day of the fifteenth of Sha’baan because it happens to be one of the ayyaam al-beed, along with the fourteenth and thirteenth of the month, or because it happens to be a Monday or Thursday. If the fifteenth (of Sha’baan) coincides with a Monday or Thursday, there is nothing wrong with that (fasting on that day), so long as he is not seeking extra reward that has not been proven (in the saheeh texts). And Allaah knows best.

Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
:bism:
:sl:
The very first sentence of the fatwa is wrong and grossly misleading. It casts a bad light on a person whom people consider to be a scholar. Here is my answer:

1) From Hadrat Mu'adh ibn Jabal (ra): Allah(swt) looks at his Creation during the night of the 15th of
Shaban and he forgives all his creation except a Mushrik(associator) and a Mushahin(hater of Muslims). (Ibn Hibban, Ibn Khuzayma and Tabarani in his Al Kabir and Al Awsat). Ibn Hibban considered this riwaya to be sahih. Ibn Hajr Haytami said: Tabarani narrated this in his Mu'jam al Kabir and Al Awsat and its narrators are trustworthy. Shaykh Shu'ayb Al Arna'ut declared it to be Sahih in Al Ihsan Fi Taqrib Sahih Ibn Hibban and Shaykh Nasir Albani declared it Sahih is his Silsila al Ahadith al Sahihah.

2) From Hadrat 'Abdillah ibn 'Amr (ra): Allah(swt) looks at his creation during the night of 15th Shaban and he forgives his servants except two - a mushahin and a qatil an nafs(murderer).
Musnad Ahmed and declared Sahih by Shaykh Ahmad Shakir. Declared Hasan by Shaykh Nasir Albani in his Silsila. Bazzar also narrated it and considered it Hasan.

These are two authentic traditions which clearly prove the fadila of this night. So it is proven from this hadith that Allah turns with mercy and forgiveness towards all his Creation in the night of Nisf Shabaan. Some people said that this is something specific to Allah and all that we have to do is ensure that we are not Mushriks or Mushaahin. I congratulate them on their courage and have only this to say: On the night that Allah turns to us in mercy, some people will be lost in sleep and some will be lost in prayer.
The choice is yours.
Wasalaam.
Reply

aadil77
11-28-2010, 02:21 PM
Originally Posted by Tawangar
:bism:
:sl:
The very first sentence of the fatwa is wrong and grossly misleading. It casts a bad light on a person whom people consider to be a scholar.
Sorry, how is the fatwa 'grossly misleading'?

Here's a fatwa from a scholar I'm sure you're aware of:

http://muslimways.com/weak-fabricate...b-e-barat.html
Reply

Tawangar
11-28-2010, 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
Sorry, how is the fatwa 'grossly misleading'?

Here's a fatwa from a scholar I'm sure you're aware of:
:bism:
:sl:
Jazakallah for the reply biraadar. My statement was "The very first sentence of the fatwa is wrong and grossly misleading." And why did I say that? The Shaykh writes, "There is no saheeh marfoo’ report that speaks of the virtue of the middle of Sha’baan that may be followed, not even in the chapters on al-Fadaa’il (chapters on virtues in books of hadeeth etc.)" Why do I say that it is wrong? Because the scholar known as Muhaddith al 'Asr, Shaykh Muhammad Nasiruddin Albani declares two ahadith which deal with the fadila of this night to be authentic. One he declares to be rigorously authenticated and the other fair/good. And he is not alone in this analysis of these two ahadeeth. Secondly his Silsila Ahadith al Sahiha is a very well known book particularly in Salafi circles. In the light of his authentication the statement by Ibn Jibreen is astoundingly unfounded and misleading. And thanks for the fatwa of Ibn Baz as well. The Shaykh is dealing with two things in that fatwa, one is the establishment of virtue for the night of Nisf Shaban where he regretfully errs and says that it has no virtue and the second is extra ordained worship in this night which he says is not established where he is right. Kindly note that Bin Baz mentions some fabricated and exceedingly weak ahadith in his fatwa but fails to mention the two authentic ahadeeth on this issue which I have quoted establishing the virtue of this night as a night of forgiveness.
In conclusion I would like to state that the virtue of this night is established by authentic ahadith and the shoddy fatawa of Bin Baz, Ibn Jibrin and al Munajjid cannot be presented in opposition to the words of Rasulullah(saws). I will repeat those ahadith here along with some ahadith on fasting in Shaban.

From Hadrat Mu'adh ibn Jabal (ra): Allah(swt) looks at his Creation during the night of the 15th of
Shaban and he forgives all his creation except a Mushrik(associator) and a Mushahin(hater of Muslims). (Ibn Hibban, Ibn Khuzayma and Tabarani in his Al Kabir and Al Awsat). Ibn Hibban considered this riwaya to be sahih. Ibn Hajr Haytami said: Tabarani narrated this in his Mu'jam al Kabir and Al Awsat and its narrators are trustworthy. Shaykh Shu'ayb Al Arna'ut declared it to be Sahih in Al Ihsan Fi Taqrib Sahih Ibn Hibban and Shaykh Nasir Albani declared it Sahih is his Silsila al Ahadith al Sahihah.

From Hadrat 'Abdillah ibn 'Amr (ra): Allah(swt) looks at his creation during the night of 15th Shaban and he forgives his servants except two - a mushahin and a qatil an nafs(murderer).
Musnad Ahmed and declared Sahih by Shaykh Ahmad Shakir. Declared Hasan by Shaykh Nasir Albani in his Silsila. Bazzar also narrated it and considered it Hasan.

Sahih Muslim, Fasting in Shaban (Tr Muhammad Muhsin Khan):

Book 006, Number 2607:
'Imran b. Husain (Allah be pleased with them) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace he upon him) having said to him or to someone else: Did you fast in the middle of Sha'ban? He said: No. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: If you did not observe fast, then you should observe fast for two days.

Book 006, Number 2608:
Imran b. Husain (Allah be pleased with them) reported that Allah's Apostle (way peace heupon him) said. to a person: Did you observe any fast in the middle of this month (Sha'ban)? He said: No. Thereupon the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Fast for two days instead of (one fast) when you have completed (fasts of) Ramadan.

Book 006, Number 2609:
'Imran b. Husain (Allah be pleased with them) reported that the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) said to a person: Did you observe fast in the middle of this month. i. e. Sha'ban? He said: No. Thereupon he said to him: When it is the end of Ramadan, then observe fast for one day or two (Shu'ba had some doubt about it) but he said: I think that he has said: two days.

Book 006, Number 2610:
This hadith is narrated by 'Abdullah b. Hani b. Akhi Mutarrif with the same chain of transmitters.
Wa salam.
Reply

aadil77
11-28-2010, 04:32 PM
I'll accept theres a difference of opinion on the matter

But this is quite a big statement about trusted scholars:
and the shoddy fatawa of Bin Baz, Ibn Jibrin and al Munajjid cannot be presented in opposition to the words of Rasulullah(saws)
You must be quite a big Sheikh of islam yourself to hand out statements like the one above?
Reply

Tawangar
11-28-2010, 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
I'll accept theres a difference of opinion on the matter

But this is quite a big statement about trusted scholars:


You must be quite a big Sheikh of islam yourself to hand out statements like the one above?
:sl: Thanks for accepting that there is a difference of opinion on the matter. But the fact is that the opinion that is supported by sahih riwayaat and the opinions of many scholars of the Salaf is the right one and the second one is the weak qawl.
The big 'statement' is about fatawa related to this topic. They may be right on other issues. Each fatwa is to be judged on its own merits.
I'll pass the sarcasm and say that I am only a student of Islam but even I have eyes. WS.


Reply

Tawangar
11-28-2010, 05:30 PM
I have given the answer to this question of kissing thumbs during adhaan in detail on another forum to a barelwi (barelwis/brailvis/ahl al qubur/quburiyya/razvis/razakhanis=people of bida’ & outright shirk from the Indian subcontinent who follow a mubtadi’ called ahmed raza) in the form of a refutation of those people who consider this action to be mustahab. I am copying my refutation here along with elucidation of some points so that the matter becomes clear.

The black font is the Barelwi(B).

B: Kissing the Thumbs on Hearing the Name of the Beloved Prophet:
When hearing the Mua’zzin proclaim, "Ash'hadu anna Muhammad ar Rasoolullah," it is preferred (Mustahab) to kiss the two thumbs or the shahaadat finger and place them on the eyes. There are many religious and worldly benefits associated to this, as well as numerous Ahadith documenting its practice. Doing so is even practiced by the Sahaaba, and Muslims everywhere perform it in the belief that it is Mustahab.

Comment: The actual statement should be, "It is preferred ‘according to the people to Bida'’ to kiss the thumbs or the shahada finger and place them on the eyes. There are many ‘imaginary’ religious and worldly benefits associated with this, as well as numerous ‘exceedingly’ weak and ‘false’ ahadith documenting its practice. Doing so ‘is even wrongly claimed’ by some to be practiced by the Sahaba and Mubtadi'in everywhere perform it in ‘the wrong belief’ that it is Mustahab."


B: It is stated in the book, Salaat al-Mas'oodi:
روي عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم انه قال من سمع اسمي في الاذان ووضع ابھاميه على عينيه فانا طالبه في صفوف القيمه و قائده الى الجنه
''The Noble Messenger is reported to have said, "On the Day of Qiyaamat, I shall search for the person who used to place his thumbs on his eyes when hearing my name during the Adhaan. I shall lead him into Jannat." [Salat al-Mas'oodi, Vol 2, Chapter 20]

Comment: My dear friend who likes to give the sanad of every hadith that he quotes, where is the sanad of this hadith? For those who have never been introduced to the Islamic sciences(i.e. Barelwis) let me inform you that when "The Noble Messenger is reported to have said" is the way of narration then it means that the hadith is inauthentic.

B: Allama Ismail Haqqi Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho writes under the verse 58 of Surah al Maidah,
وضعف تقبيل ظفرى ابهاميه مع مسبحتيه والمسح على عينيه عند قوله محمد رسول الله لانه لم يثبت فى الحديث المرفوع لكن المحدثين اتفقوا على ان الحديث الضعيف يجوز العمل به فى الترغيب والترهيب
"Kissing the nails of the thumbs and the shahadat finger when saying "Muhammadur-Rasoolullah SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam has been classified as weak (zaeef) because it is not proven from a marfoo' Hadith. However, Muhadditheen have agreed that to act upon a zaeef Hadith to incline people towards [good] deeds and instill fear within them is permitted." [Tafseer Rooh al-Bayaan, Vol 3, Page 282]

Comment: Tafseer Ruh al Bayan is one of the most inauthentic and ‘filled with weak narrations’ tafaseer in the world. You quote that It is not proven from a hadith marfu' but from a da’if riwayat? It is not even proven from a da'eef hadith. It is proven from a fabricated hadith which some scholars have labelled as extremely weak. Such ahadith cannot be used for Fad'ail 'Amal.


B: Shaami states,
يستحب أن يقال عند سماع الأولى من الشهادة : صلى الله عليك يا رسول الله ، وعند الثانية منها : قرت عيني بك يا رسول الله ، ثم يقول : اللهم متعني بالسمع والبصر بعد وضع ظفري الإبهامين على العينين فإنه عليه السلام يكون قائدا له إلى الجنة ، كذا في كنز العباد . قهستاني ، ونحوه في الفتاوى الصوفية . وفي كتاب الفردوس من قبل ظفري إبهامه عند سماع أشهد أن محمدا رسول الله في الأذان أنا قائده ومدخله في صفوف الجنة وتمامه في حواشي البحر للرملي
"On the testimony (of Prophethood) in Adhaan, it is Mustahab to say "Sallallaahu Alaika Ya Rasoolallah SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam on the first and "Quratu Aini bika Ya RasoolAllah SubHanuhu wa Ta'ala on the second. Then, place the nails of your thumbs on your eyes and say, "Allahumma Matti'ni bis-Sam'i wal-Basr." The Holy Prophet SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam will lead the person who does this into Jannat. The same has been documented by Kanzul lbaad, Qohistaani and in Fataawa Soofia. Kitaabul-Firdaus states that the Prophet SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam has said, I shall lead into Jannat the person who kisses his thumbnails when hearing "Ash'hadu anna Muhammad ar-Rasoolullah. I will also place him amongst the ranks of the inmates of Janna'. The complete discussion on this has been given in the marginal notes on Bahr ar-Raaiq of Ramli." [Radd al Muh'tar, Baab al-Adhan, Vol. 3, Page 233]

Comment: Again books of fiqh where books of hadith have failed you? Where is the daleel? First bring your dala’il from the qur’an and sunna and then talk about fiqh books. By the way you have given an incomplete quote.

This extract has given the reference of 5 books Kanz al-Ibaad, Fataawa Soofia, Kitaab al-Firdaus, Qohistaani and the marginal notes on Bahr ar-Raaiq. All of them have ruled this practice to be Mustahab.

Comment: The dua mentioned in Radd Al-Muhtar is mentioned from a book called "Kanz al-'Ibad" about which the great Hanafi scholar Mulla `Ali Qari (RA) gives a verdict:وفي هذا الكنز أحاديث سَمْجَة موضوعة، لا يحل سماعها

"This "Kanz" contains disgusting fabricated Ahadith. It is not permissible to even hear them!"

Shaykh Ghulam Mustafa Al-Sindhi (RA) states regarding the same "Kanzal-'Ibad":

إنه مملوء بالمسائل الواهية والأحاديث الموضوعة، لا عبرة له لا عند الفقهاء ولا عند المحدثين

It is full of weak Masa`il (issues) and fabricated Ahadith. Neither the Fuqaha, nor the Muhaddithin attach any weight to this book!

Allama Ibn ‘Abideen (RA) quotes the book "Al-Fatawa Al-Sufiyya" which is classed an unreliable and issues mentioned therein are not be practised upon by Allamah Birgivi (RA), Allamah Khadimi (RA), Allamah ‘Abdul Hai Lukhnawi (RA) and Shaykh Ghulam Mustafa Al-Sindhi (RA):
الفتاوى الصوفية ليست من الكتب المعتبرة فلا يجوز العمل بما فيها إلا إذا علم موافقتها للأصول
Water can only flow in one direction.


B: In the book "al Maqasid al Hasanah Fil Hadisil Atwirah Alas Sunnah". Imam Sakhawi Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho states,

ذكره الديلمي في الفردوس من حديث أبي بكر الصديق أنه لما سمع قول المؤذن ( أشهد أن محمدا رسول الله ) قال هذا وقبل باطن الانملتين السبابتين ومسح عينيه فقال ( من فعل مثل ما فعل خليلي فقد حلت عليه شفاعتي ) ولا يصح


"Dailmi reports that Hadrat Abu Bakr Siddique Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho once said 'When I heard the Muazzin say Ash'hadu anna Muhammadar-Rasoolullah SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam, I said the same, kissed the inner-side of my Kalima finger and placed it on my eyes. When the Holy Prophet SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam noticed this, he said. My intercession becomes obligatory upon he who does the same as my beloved.' This Hadith hasn't reached the classification of Sahih." [al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadith 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 384]


Comment: Your translation is wrong and deceptive but I can see from which spring of bida’ you have drunk. He is saying, "And this is not sahih". What you are suggesting is that the hadith has reach an authentic grade less than sahih, viz. hasan which is absolutely wrong. This is in actuality a fabricated hadith, not even a weak one. Here are the Details:
The Barelwi gives the above quotation from Maqaasid al Hasana.
As you can see the Arabic, Sakhawi's opinion is Wa La Yasihh.
The Barelwi translates it as "This Hadith hasn't reached the classification of Sahih".
This is gross misrepresentation. See what a Shafi'i mubtadi’ called Gibril Haddad has to write about the use of La Yasihh in Hadith gradings and discussions:
"Similarly, al-Qari understands la yathbut to mean la asla lahu when it means la yasihh. In a fiqhi discussion la yathbut and la yasihh mean that the hadith falls short of the rank of sahih but in a hadithic discussion of forgeries such terms mean the hadith is forged.
He follows al-Zarkashi, Ibn 'Arraq, and others in their misunderstanding of the term “inauthentic” (la yasihh) to allow that a hadith is not necessarily forged whereas in discussions of forgeries and strictly hadithic, non-fiqh literature that term is strictly synonymous with “forged,” “baseless,” and other such descriptions used by the Masters in the books specifically devoted to forgeries as demonstrated by Abu Ghudda in his introduction to the Masnoo' and elsewhere.
In the entry, “Whoever circumambulates this House seven times, prays two rakas behind the Station of Ibrahim, and drinks Zamzam water, all his sins shall be forgiven as many as they may be” al-Qari cites al-Sakhawi's ruling of la yasihh, i.e. forged, but al-Qari goes on, Al-Sakhawi’s statement that the hadith is inauthentic does not preclude its being weak or fair unless he meant to convey that it is unestablished (la yathbutu). It seems al-Minnawfi understood the latter since he says, in his Mukhtasar [of al-Sakhawi's Maqasid], “It is a falsehood (batil) without basis (la asla lahu).”
In reality both al-Sakhawi and al-Minnawfi are asserting the same thing, namely, that the hadith is forged; but al-Qari follows two of his idiosyncrasies: first, he misunderstands al-Sakhawi’s statement to mean other than “forged”; second, he uses the terms “unestablished” and “without basis” indifferently.” (Haddad’s quote ends here)

See Shaykh ‘Abd al Fattah Abu Ghudda’s al Masnoo’ for further details.
In the light of the above discussion which shows what the masters of hadith actually mean regarding the word La Yasihh in hadith discussions, read the following fatwa by our scholars:
Nabi (S.A.W.) says, “The actual miser is he in whose presence my name is taken, yet he does not recite Salaat upon me.”
This Saheeh Hadith and many others of its nature teach us to send salutations upon our beloved Nabi (S.A.W.) when his name is taken.
Kissing the thumbs on hearing the name of Nabi (S.A.W.) is an outright innovation. All narrations in this regard are fabricated. (Fataawaa Rahimiyyah, Vol. 2, Page 303-304, Vol. 1, Page 58). And Allah Ta’ala knows best
Ebrahim bin Zainul `Abedeen Backus
Attested to as correct by: Mufti Muhammad Ashraf
Darul Iftaa, Jameah Mahmoodiyah, Springs.

Hope there is clarity to the issue now and Sayyiduna Abi Bakr siddiq(ra) is absolved of what he did not do and the accusations of the enemies of the purified sunna of Muhammad(saws) are answered.

Quoting the book Moojibaat ar-RaHmah, Imam Sakhawi Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho further writes.
عن الخضر عليه السلام أنه من قال حين يسمع المؤذن يقول أشهد أن محمدا رسول الله مرحبا بحبيبي وقرة عيني محمد بن عبد الله ثم يقبل ابهاميه ويجعلهما على عينيه لم يرمد أبدا
"It is reported from Hadrat Khidr Alaihis Salam , "If a person says "Marhaban bi-Habibi Quratu Aini Muhammad ibn Abdullah" when hearing the Muazzin say "Ash'hadu anna Muhammadur-Rasoolullah, then kisses his thumbs and places them on his eyes, never will they (the eyes) be sore."
[al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadith 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 384]

Comment: Who reported it from Khadir(as)? Is this your daleel? Nonsense.
Shaykh Ahmad al-Raddad cited it in his book Mu’jibaat al Rahma (wa- ‘Azaaim al maghfira) with a broken chain containing unknown narrators from al-Khadir(as). In fact, everything related on this chapter is inauthentic as attributed to the Prophet(saws). (Mulla `Ali al-Qari’s Al-Asrar al-Marfu’a fil-Akhbar al-Mawdu`at)
Read this: Allama Muhammad Tahir Hanafi (RA) and Mulla `Ali Qari (RA) give a verdict about this narration in Tazkiratul-Maudua`at (page 36) and Al-Maudu`atul-Kabeer page 75):بسند فیھ مجاھیل مع انقطاعھ ۔ ۔ ۔
Its chain contains many narrators who are Majaheel and it is also disconnected.
Imam Baihaqi (RA) states in Kitaab ul Qir'aa (page 127):
فی ھذا الاسناد قوم مجھولون ولم یکلفنا اللہ تعالی ان یاخذ دیننا عمن لا نعرفھ
And in its chain are several narrators who are Majhool and Allah(SWT) has not made us responsible to take our religion from Majhool narrators.

He further writes that Abul Abbas Ahmad said that Muhammad ibn Baabaa, narrating his personal experience, states.
أنه هبت ريح فوقعت منه حصاة في عينه فأعياه خروجها وآلمته أشد الألم وأنه لما سمع المؤذن يقول أشهد أن محمدا رسول الله قال ذلك فخرجت الحصاة من فوره
"Once, due to a heavy wind blowing, a pebble hit my eye and refused to come out. I experienced major pain because of it." When Muhammad ibn Baabaa heard the Muazzin say "Ash 'hadu anna Muhammad ar-Rasoolullah, " he said this "Quratu Aini ... 'and, immediately, the pebble fell out." [al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadit 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 384]

Comment: We are interested in Muhammad ibn 'Abdillah (saws) not Mr Baa_Baa. Do you have something from Muhammad Rasulullah(saws) or not?

Allama Shams Muhammad ibn Saalih Madani Alaihis Salam reports Imam Amjad to have said.
من صلى على النبي إذا سمع ذكره في الاذان وجمع أصبعيه المسبحة والابهام وقبلهما ومسح بهما عينيه لم يرمد أبدا
"If the person who hears the name of the Noble Messenger SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam in the Adhaan joins his Kalima finger and his thumbs," "Kisses and places them on his eyes, never will they be sore." [al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadit 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 384]
Imam Amjad Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho who was an accomplished scholar in Egypt, further states,
بعض شيوخ العراق أو العجم أنه يقول عندما يمسح عينيه صلى لله عليك يا سيدي يا رسول الله يا حبيب قلبي ويا نور بصري ويا قرة عيني وقال لي كل منهما منذ فعله لم ترمد عيني
"Some non-Arab and Iraqi Mashaaikh have said that by this practice, the eyes will never be sore." "From the time I have brought this into practice even my eyes have not ached." [al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadit 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 384]
Ibn Saalih Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho states,
وأنا ولله الحمد والشكر منذ سمعته منهما استعملته فلم ترمد عيني وأرجو أن عافيتهما تدوم وأني أسلم من العمى إن شاء لله
"From the time I heard this benefit. I brought this action into practice. Since then, my eyes haven't become sore and it is my hope that, Insha-Allah, they will never be and I will be saved from being blind." [al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadit 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 385]
Imam Hasan Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho states, من قال حين يسمع المؤذن يقول أشهد أن محمدا رسول الله مرحبا بحبيبي وقرة عيني محمد بن عبد الله ويقبل إبهاميه ويجعلهما على عينيه لم يعم ولم يرمد
''The eyes of he who says 'Marhaban bi-Habibi wa Quratu Aini Muhammad ibn Abdullah' when hearing the Muazzin say "Ash'hadu anna Muhammad ar-Rasoolullah and kisses and places his thumbs on them will never pain nor will he become blind." [al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadit 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 385] In short, the book alMaqaasid al Hasanah confirms this practice by many Imams of the deen.

Comment: These are all stories. The book confirms this practice by some 'ulama of the Khalaf and that too as a nuskha` not a sunna and not a single one of the Salaf. So the decisions are worthless from a Shari'i point of view.[/COLOR]

Sharah Niqaaya states,
واعلم انه يستحب أن يقال عند سماع الأولى من الشهادة : صلى الله عليك يا رسول الله ، وعند الثانية منها : قرت عيني بك يا رسول الله ، وضع ظفري الإبهامين على العينين فإنه عليه السلام يكون قائدا له إلى الجنة ، كذا في كنز العباد
"It should be known that it is preferable (Mustahab) to say "Quratu Aini bika Ya Rasoolallah and place the thumbs on the eyes when hearing the first part of the second shahaadat. The Holy Prophet SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam wilt lead the person who does so into Jannat. Kanz al-Ibaad says likewise." [Jami' ar-Rumooz, Fasl al Adhan, Maktaba Islamiya (Iran), Vol 1, Page 125]
Maulana Jamaal ibn Abdullah ibn Umar Makki Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho states in his Fataawa,
تقبيل الابھامين ووضعھما على العينين عند ذكر اسمه عليه السلام في الاذان جائز بل مستحب صرح به مشائخنا
"Taqbeelul-Ibhaamain (kissing and placing the thumbs on the eyes when hearing the blessed name of Rasoolullah SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam in Adhaan) not just permissible, but Mustahab. Our Mashaaikh have elucidated this.” [Fatawa Jamal Ibn Abdullah Ibn Umar Makki]
Allama Muhammad Taahir Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho classifying this Hadith as Ghair-Sahih, also states,
وروي تجربة عن كثيرين "There are many reports of this benefit being experienced." [Khatima Majma' BiHar al-Anwaar, Vol 3, Page 511]
There are many other quotations besides these that can also be presented.

Comment: The stories of story tellers are indeed endless but we are interested in the Qur'an and Sunna. Do you have anything to do with them?

For the sake of conciseness. we make do with only these. Hadrat Sadr al-Afadhil, Maulana Sayyed Muhammad Naeemuddin Muraadabaai states that a very ancient copy of the Injeel (New Testament) has been discovered. It is known as the Gospel of Barnabas and has been translated into almost every language. The majority of its rulings and laws resemble Islamic commands.

Comment: The Gospel of Barnabas is a forgery and is as fabricated as the Juz' al Mafqud of 'Abd al Razzaq. So are you contemplating becoming Christians now?

It's written inside that when Hadrat Adam Alaihis Salam wished to see the Noor of the Beloved Mustapha SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam (Rooh al-Quds). The Noor was made bright on the nails of his thumbs. Hadrat Adam Alaihis Salam then kissed and placed them on his eyes out of love and appreciation.

Comment: Sounds like a TV serial in India called Ramayana. So nowadays you take your dala'il from the New Testament? How desperate and cheap can you get?

Besides the Ulama of the Hanafi Mad'hab, Ulama from the Shafee and Maaliki Mad'habs have also ruled the kissing of the thumbs (Taqbeel al-Ibhaamain) to be Mustahab. A famous Shafa'ee book of Fiqh, I'aanatut-Taalibeen 'Alaa Hali alfaazi Fat'hil-Mu'een, states,
ثم يقبل ابھاميه و يجعلھما على عينيه لم يعم ولم يرمد ابدا
"Then kiss and place your thumbs on your eyes. By doing so, never will you become blind nor will your eyes be sore,' [I'aanatut-Taalibeen, Page 247, Egyptian Edition]
Another famous book of the Maaliki Mad'hab, Kifaayat at-Taalib ar Rabbani Ii Risaalati Ibn Abi Zaid Qeerwaani Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho, after saying much about this practice, states,
عينيه لم يعم ولم يرمد ابدا "Never will the eyes of the person who does so pain, nor will he become blind." [Kifaayat at-Taalib ar Rabbani, Vol 1, Page 169, Egyptian Edition]
Shaikh Ali Saeed Adawi Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho writes in his commentary of this extract,
لم يبين موضع التقبيل من ابھامين الا انه نقل عن الشيخ العالم المفسر نور الدين الخراساني قال بعضهم لقيته وقت الاذان فلما سمع الموذن يقول اشھد ان محمدا رسول الله قبل ابھامي نفسه و مسح بالظفرين اجفان عينيه من الماق الي ناحيه الصدع ثم فعل ذلك عند كل تشھد مرة فسالته عن ذلك ففقال كنت افعله ثم تركته فمرضت عيناي فرئيته صلى الله عليه وسلم مناما فقال لما تركت مسح عينيك عند الاذان ان اردت ان تبرء عيناك فعد في المسح فاستيقظت و مسحت فبرئت ولم يعاود في مرضھا الي الان
"The writer didn't mention when the thumbs should be kissed. However, it is reported that some people met Allama Mufassir Nooruddin Khorasaani Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho at the time of Adhaan. When he heard the Muazzin say "Ash'hadu anna Muhammad ar-Rasoolullah he kissed and placed his thumbs on the eyelashes and comer of his eyes, right until the temples. He did this on every shahaadat. When the people asked him about this practice of his, he replied, "I used to kiss my thumbs but stopped after a while. My eyes later became sore. I then saw the Holy Prophet SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam in a dream and he said to me, "Why did you stop kissing your thumbs and placing them on the eyes during the Adhaan? If you want your eyes to stop paining, resume this practice." Thus, from then on, I continued this action and gained comfort. The pain didn't return from the time I recommenced this." [Nahjul-Istamia, Page 177]


Comment: One fake hadith and one dream. That is the extent of your daleel in this long, tedious, nonsensical post.

Important Note: Direct narrations and Ahadith have been presented regarding this practice in Adhaan. Takbeer (lqaamat) is in the likeness of Adhaan, and it has even been called Adhaan in the Ahadith. Therefore, kissing and placing the thumbs during the Takbeer is also beneficial and a means of blessings but during Salah or a Khutba or whilst listening to the Qur’an it should not be done!

Comment: Direct FORGED narrations and MAWDU`ahadith have been presented for this practice in Adhaan. Kindly Take home the same for Iqaama in order to misguide your relatives and friends.


Not performing it during salah is evident and the impermissibility during listening to the khutba or the Qur’an is because one should have utmost attention at these times and refrain from any unnecessary movements. When the verse Maa kaana muhammadun abaa ahadim mir rijalikum is recited, so many people kiss their thumbs, it is as if birds have gathered to sing and they do it to such an extent that people from afar cannot even hear some words of the holy Qur’an. Even if there is no harm to place the thumbs on the lips and then place them on the eyes at this time; there is no ruling to make a sound during the kiss of reverence – like when one kisses the black stone, the ka’aba, the Qur’an or the hands and feet of the pious. There is no rule to make the noises like a flock of birds.

Comment: When there is no ruling for the kiss itself then how can there be a ruling for making smooching sounds?
Their prayer at the House (of Allah) is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands: (its only answer can be) "Taste ye the penalty because ye blasphemed. Sura Anfal, v. 35

Conclusion:This entire discussion establishes that kissing and placing the thumbs during the Adhaan, etc. is Mustahab. It is found as the Sunnat of' Hadrat Adam Alaihis Salam, Abu Bakr Siddique Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho and Imam Hasan Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho.

Comment: Very true. It is proven from false ahadith.

Even Imams of the Shafa'ee and Maaliki Mad'habs have ruled it to be Mustahab. In every era, Muslim deemed this practice to have this very ruling, along with the following benefits,

Comment: \Wow! Kya daleel pesh ki hai! So the world of Bida' is not populated by you Barelwis alone! Lovely! We thought that you alone carried the banner of shirk and bida’ in the world but it seems that there are people of every hue with you. Mashallah.

The eyes of a person who does this are saved from being sore.

1. Insha-Allah, he will never become blind.


2. It is an excellent cure to remove something problematic to the eyes. These benefits have been experienced several times.

Comment: What is the use of seeing with the eyes when the heart is blind? By the way are you writing a book on ophthalmology or an article on fiqh?

3. The Prophet SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam will intercede for the one who practices this.

4. Sayyiduna Rasoolullah SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam will also search for the person who used to perform it and lead him into Jannah.

As long as no explicit proof of its prohibition is found, It cannot be stopped. Muslims deeming something preferable (Mustahab) is sufficient proof for it being so. However, for certification of Karaahat (i.e. to deem something Makrooh), a specific proof is needed! So, Calling this practice Haraam is sheer ignorance and an act of prejudice and strait-mindedness of a person afflicted with the blindness of Faith (Eiman). May Allah protect us from falling to this depth of depravity and deviation from the right path... Aameen!!

Comment: Yes. Very right. Doing things according the the Sharia' and asking for evidence is sheer ignorance and an act of prejudice. Letting every Bida' grow like grass under your feet is actually Sunna. Mashallah./COLOR]

والله سبحانه وتعالى اعلم ورسوله اعلم بالصواب
Almighty Allah SubHanuhu wa Ta'ala and His Beloved Rasool Sallallaho Alaihi wa Aalihi wa Sallam knows the best!

Comment: Allah knows Best.


Reply

أبو سليمان عمر
11-28-2010, 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by Tawangar
:bism:
:sl:
The very first sentence of the fatwa is wrong and grossly misleading. It casts a bad light on a person whom people consider to be a scholar. Here is my answer:

1) From Hadrat Mu'adh ibn Jabal (ra): Allah(swt) looks at his Creation during the night of the 15th of
Shaban and he forgives all his creation except a Mushrik(associator) and a Mushahin(hater of Muslims). (Ibn Hibban, Ibn Khuzayma and Tabarani in his Al Kabir and Al Awsat). Ibn Hibban considered this riwaya to be sahih. Ibn Hajr Haytami said: Tabarani narrated this in his Mu'jam al Kabir and Al Awsat and its narrators are trustworthy. Shaykh Shu'ayb Al Arna'ut declared it to be Sahih in Al Ihsan Fi Taqrib Sahih Ibn Hibban and Shaykh Nasir Albani declared it Sahih is his Silsila al Ahadith al Sahihah.

2) From Hadrat 'Abdillah ibn 'Amr (ra): Allah(swt) looks at his creation during the night of 15th Shaban and he forgives his servants except two - a mushahin and a qatil an nafs(murderer).
Musnad Ahmed and declared Sahih by Shaykh Ahmad Shakir. Declared Hasan by Shaykh Nasir Albani in his Silsila. Bazzar also narrated it and considered it Hasan.

These are two authentic traditions which clearly prove the fadila of this night. So it is proven from this hadith that Allah turns with mercy and forgiveness towards all his Creation in the night of Nisf Shabaan. Some people said that this is something specific to Allah and all that we have to do is ensure that we are not Mushriks or Mushaahin. I congratulate them on their courage and have only this to say: On the night that Allah turns to us in mercy, some people will be lost in sleep and some will be lost in prayer.
The choice is yours.
Wasalaam.
Asalamu alaykum
first of all akhi the shaykh answered a question and the question was
I read in a book that fasting on the middle of Sha’baan is a kind of bid’ah, but in another book I read that one of the days on which it is mustahabb to fast is the middle of Sha’baan… what is the definitive ruling on this?
to what the shaykh answered
There is no saheeh marfoo’ report that speaks of the virtue of the middle of Sha’baan that may be followed,
hence the questioer asked about fasting doing an act of ibadah becasue it is the 15th of shaban and the shaykh reply answers this that there is no sahih hadith reprt that speaks of the middle of shaban that should be FOLLOWED hence it is not wrong at all scholars answer questions that were asked and to the question that was asked he answer alhumdulillah

as for shaykh ibn baz akhi you have err for he said Hadiths concerning the virtues of prayer on this night are Mawdu' (fabricated) which is true both ahadith you posted simple says Allah forgives sins on that day .. the matter is simple first we need to understand both fatwa say there is no sahih ahadih that we should celebrate that day or single that day out and this is true

so now looks look at this
The Prophet would fast most of the month of Sha'ban. 'Aishah said: "I never saw the Messenger of Allah fast a complete month save for Ramadan, and I have never seen him fast more in a month than he did in Sha'ban." This is related by al-Bukhari and Muslim. so if the person was doing this then great becasue this is sunnah but to single out the 15th is bidah becasue there is no sahih hadith that says so

a good example of what im trying to say is the prophet said

Muslim :: Book 32 : Hadith 6224
Abu Huraim reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying The deeds of people would be presented every week on two days, viz. Monday and Thursday, and every believing servant would be granted pardon except the one in whose (heart) there is rancour against his brother and it would he said: Leave them and put them off until they are turned to reconciliation.
so from this hadith if it was the only one we would understand that on these days Allah forgive people just like the ahadith you posted we understand stand that then we look at the other ahadith

Abu Qatadah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) was asked about fasting on Mondays. He said, "That is the day on which I was born and the day on which I received Revelation.''
[Muslim].

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, "Deeds of people are presented (to Allah) on Mondays and Thursdays. So I like that my actions be presented while I am fasting.''
[At-Tirmidhi].

Aishah (May Allah be pleased with her)u reported: The Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) used to observe fast on Mondays and Thursdays.
[At-Tirmidhi].

so we see know that the day is a great day and not only that that it is sunnah to fast them to where as the 15th of shaban having its virtues it is not sunnah to single that day out in fasting now if you fasting like the prophet fasted shaban and the 15th came and u fasted it great so long as you are not singleing it out so understand the both fatwa are talking about fasting extra praying etc on this day in a way of singleing it out
Reply

aadil77
11-28-2010, 07:02 PM
I have given the answer to this question of kissing thumbs during adhaan in detail on another forum to a barelwi (barelwis/brailvis/ahl al qubur/quburiyya/razvis/razakhanis=people of bida’ & outright shirk from the Indian subcontinent who follow a mubtadi’ called ahmed raza) in the form of a refutation of those people who consider this action to be mustahab. I am copying my refutation here along with elucidation of some points so that the matter becomes clear.
Your post is quite confusing, I can't tell if half of it is sarcasm or not

are you saying that kissing the thumbs and placing them on the eyes during adthaan is a sunnah of the salaf?
Reply

أبو سليمان عمر
11-28-2010, 07:08 PM
Just to add the shaykh ibn baz sais
Among the bid’ahs that have been invented by some people is celebrating the middle of Sha’baan (Laylat al-Nusf min Sha’baan), and singling out that day for fasting. There is no evidence (daleel) for that which can be regarded as reliable. Some da’eef (weak) ahaadeeth have been narrated concerning its virtues, but we cannot regard them as reliable. The reports which have been narrated concerning the virtues of prayer on this occasion are all mawdoo’ (fabricated), as has been pointed out by many of the scholars. We will quote some of their comments below, in sha Allaah.

i believe this is the arabic of it read it inshA Allah

ومن البدع التي أحدثها بعض الناس: بدعة الاحتفال بليلة النصف من شعبان، وتخصيص يومها بالصيام، وليس على ذلك دليل يجوز الاعتماد عليه، وقد ورد في فضلها أحاديث ضعيفة لا يجوز الاعتماد عليها، أما ما ورد في فضل الصلاة فيها، فكله موضوع، كما نبه على ذلك كثير من أهل العلم، وسيأتي ذكر بعض كلامهم إن شاء
Reply

Beardo
11-28-2010, 07:13 PM
Also to add, I heard there are such things called "Good Bid'ah"s, if anyone wants to shed some light on that too. o_o;
Reply

أبو سليمان عمر
11-28-2010, 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
Your post is quite confusing, I can't tell if half of it is sarcasm or not

are you saying that kissing the thumbs and placing them on the eyes during adthaan is a sunnah of the salaf?
it seems he is saying it is a bidah but in a manner that i cant say is correct
Reply

Tawangar
11-28-2010, 07:17 PM
:sl: brother Abu Sulaymaan: Please wait for a detailed answer. It is very late here.
brother Adil. My post is in refutation of Barelwis who believe that it is mustahabb. The light coloured sentences are by the Barelwi and the red and dark blue "comments" are by me. Hope that I have cleared the confusion now. Please read the post again and I will try to edit it tomorrow so that it becomes easier to read. WS.
Reply

أبو سليمان عمر
11-28-2010, 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by Rashad
Also to add, I heard there are such things called "Good Bid'ah"s, if anyone wants to shed some light on that too. o_o;
akhi this topic can get to detail and insha Allah if i need to i will but in short some says there is a good bidah but the prophet said All Bidah is a misguidance so the matter is who we believe some of the scholars who have said that there is a good bidah and this is due to there ijtihad then they are rewared 1 hasana but they were wrong im sure u will get a lot of post try to verify what they say but remeber if we differ in a matter take it back to Allah and his messnager insha Allah but if any of the brothers or sister do post trying to say that there is i will post the deatiled unless u want it i can
Reply

Tawangar
11-29-2010, 09:31 AM
:sl: brother Abu Sulayman. Coming back to our discussion of the fatawa of those scholars previously mentioned in this post. About Shaykh Ibn Jibrin's fatwa:
The Shaykh was asked, "I read in a book that fasting on the middle of Sha’baan is a kind of bid’ah, but in another book I read that one of the days on which it is mustahabb to fast is the middle of Sha’baan… what is the definitive ruling on this?"
He started off by saying, "There is no saheeh marfoo’ report that speaks of the virtue of the middle of Sha’baan that may be followed."
My problems with this statement:
It is a generalized dismissive statement that does not take into account either fadeela of this night or 'amal. In the previous posts I have given the ahadith speaking of the virtue of the middle of Sha'ban. When there are authentic narrations describing the fada'il of the middle of Sha'ban it is a must for the scholar to mention them and then talk further. Anyone who reads this fatwa will walk away with the impression that there is no importance whatsoever to this night, neither in terms of fadila nor in terms of aamaal.

He further said, "Some maqtoo’ reports (reports whose isnaads do not go back further than the Taabi’een) have been narrated from some of the Taabi’een, and there are some ahaadeeth, the best of which are mawdoo’ (fabricated) or da’eef jiddan (very weak). These reports became very well known in some countries which were overwhelmed by ignorance; these reports suggest that people’s lifespans are written on that day or that it is decided on that day who is to die in the coming year.
Problem: There is no need to discuss maqtu', mawdu' or da'if jiddan riwayat when sahih and hasan riwayat are available. Over here he is not even discussing the issue of fasts. He is just talking about some weak and fabricated hadith. He should have spoken about the authentic hadith here. So either he did not know or this is a sin of deliberate omission.

He then said, "On this basis, it is not prescribed to spend this night in prayer or to fast on this day, or to single it out for certain acts of worship. One should not be deceived by the large numbers of ignorant people who do these things. And Allaah knows best."

On which basis? Please see the ahadith that I have quoted from Muslim in one of my posts. They are specific to fasting in the Middle of Sha'ban. This was not clarified by the Shaykh whereas al Munajjid has at least mentioned the ayyam-e-beed.

About Bin Baz's fatwa I would like to inform you that it is not specific to answering about praying on that day or any specific amal on that day. Rather it is dismissive of the fadila of the night which is proven from the sahih hadith that I quoted.
The Shaykh writes in the fatwa, " Hafiz ibn Rajab remarked in his book Lata'if Al-Ma'arif after his previously quoted statement, that, 'Some of the followers of the companions like Khalid bin Ma'dan and Makhul and Luqman bin 'Amir used to respect the 15th of Sha'ban by offering extra prayers at night. It is said that they were influenced by certain Judaic traditions." (All those who hold this night in esteem are in fact following this isolated tradition).

The part in brackets is by the Shaykh. Please note the part "all those who hold this night in esteem". Which means that he did not hold this night in esteem which goes against the hadith sahih I quoted.

He further approvingly quotes. "The Imam Abu Bakr AI-Turtusi has remarked in his book AI-Hawadith Wal Bid'ah that lbn Waddah has reported from Zaid bin Aslam as saying, "None of our scholars (Fuqhaha) gave any consideration or attention to the 15th Sha'ban nor the hadith of Makhool, neither did they give this night precedence over other nights."

So at the end of the day both fatawa are not only dismissive of prayer on this day and night but also of the virtue of the night itself. WS.
Reply

Tawangar
11-29-2010, 09:44 AM
Originally Posted by Tawangar
I have given the answer to this question of kissing thumbs during adhaan in detail on another forum to a barelwi (barelwis/brailvis/ahl al qubur/quburiyya/razvis/razakhanis=people of bida’ & outright shirk from the Indian subcontinent who follow a mubtadi’ called ahmed raza) in the form of a refutation of those people who consider this action to be mustahab. I am copying my refutation here along with elucidation of some points so that the matter becomes clear.

The black font is the Barelwi(B).The blue and red font is mine.

B: Kissing the Thumbs on Hearing the Name of the Beloved Prophet:
When hearing the Mua’zzin proclaim, "Ash'hadu anna Muhammad ar Rasoolullah," it is preferred (Mustahab) to kiss the two thumbs or the shahaadat finger and place them on the eyes. There are many religious and worldly benefits associated to this, as well as numerous Ahadith documenting its practice. Doing so is even practiced by the Sahaaba, and Muslims everywhere perform it in the belief that it is Mustahab.

Comment: The actual statement should be, "It is preferred ‘according to the people to Bida'’ to kiss the thumbs or the shahada finger and place them on the eyes. There are many ‘imaginary’ religious and worldly benefits associated with this, as well as numerous ‘exceedingly’ weak and ‘false’ ahadith documenting its practice. Doing so ‘is even wrongly claimed’ by some to be practiced by the Sahaba and Mubtadi'in everywhere perform it in ‘the wrong belief’ that it is Mustahab."


B: It is stated in the book, Salaat al-Mas'oodi:
روي عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم انه قال من سمع اسمي في الاذان ووضع ابھاميه على عينيه فانا طالبه في صفوف القيمه و قائده الى الجنه
''The Noble Messenger is reported to have said, "On the Day of Qiyaamat, I shall search for the person who used to place his thumbs on his eyes when hearing my name during the Adhaan. I shall lead him into Jannat." [Salat al-Mas'oodi, Vol 2, Chapter 20]

Comment: My dear friend who likes to give the sanad of every hadith that he quotes, where is the sanad of this hadith? For those who have never been introduced to the Islamic sciences(i.e. Barelwis) let me inform you that when "The Noble Messenger is reported to have said" is the way of narration then it means that the hadith is inauthentic.

B: Allama Ismail Haqqi Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho writes under the verse 58 of Surah al Maidah,
وضعف تقبيل ظفرى ابهاميه مع مسبحتيه والمسح على عينيه عند قوله محمد رسول الله لانه لم يثبت فى الحديث المرفوع لكن المحدثين اتفقوا على ان الحديث الضعيف يجوز العمل به فى الترغيب والترهيب
"Kissing the nails of the thumbs and the shahadat finger when saying "Muhammadur-Rasoolullah SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam has been classified as weak (zaeef) because it is not proven from a marfoo' Hadith. However, Muhadditheen have agreed that to act upon a zaeef Hadith to incline people towards [good] deeds and instill fear within them is permitted." [Tafseer Rooh al-Bayaan, Vol 3, Page 282]

Comment: Tafseer Ruh al Bayan is one of the most inauthentic and ‘filled with weak narrations’ tafaseer in the world. You quote that It is not proven from a hadith marfu' but from a da’if riwayat? It is not even proven from a da'eef hadith. It is proven from a fabricated hadith which some scholars have labelled as extremely weak. Such ahadith cannot be used for Fad'ail 'Amal.


B: Shaami states,
يستحب أن يقال عند سماع الأولى من الشهادة : صلى الله عليك يا رسول الله ، وعند الثانية منها : قرت عيني بك يا رسول الله ، ثم يقول : اللهم متعني بالسمع والبصر بعد وضع ظفري الإبهامين على العينين فإنه عليه السلام يكون قائدا له إلى الجنة ، كذا في كنز العباد . قهستاني ، ونحوه في الفتاوى الصوفية . وفي كتاب الفردوس من قبل ظفري إبهامه عند سماع أشهد أن محمدا رسول الله في الأذان أنا قائده ومدخله في صفوف الجنة وتمامه في حواشي البحر للرملي
"On the testimony (of Prophethood) in Adhaan, it is Mustahab to say "Sallallaahu Alaika Ya Rasoolallah SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam on the first and "Quratu Aini bika Ya RasoolAllah SubHanuhu wa Ta'ala on the second. Then, place the nails of your thumbs on your eyes and say, "Allahumma Matti'ni bis-Sam'i wal-Basr." The Holy Prophet SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam will lead the person who does this into Jannat. The same has been documented by Kanzul lbaad, Qohistaani and in Fataawa Soofia. Kitaabul-Firdaus states that the Prophet SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam has said, I shall lead into Jannat the person who kisses his thumbnails when hearing "Ash'hadu anna Muhammad ar-Rasoolullah. I will also place him amongst the ranks of the inmates of Janna'. The complete discussion on this has been given in the marginal notes on Bahr ar-Raaiq of Ramli." [Radd al Muh'tar, Baab al-Adhan, Vol. 3, Page 233]

Comment: Again books of fiqh where books of hadith have failed you? Where is the daleel? First bring your dala’il from the qur’an and sunna and then talk about fiqh books. By the way you have given an incomplete quote.

B: This extract has given the reference of 5 books Kanz al-Ibaad, Fataawa Soofia, Kitaab al-Firdaus, Qohistaani and the marginal notes on Bahr ar-Raaiq. All of them have ruled this practice to be Mustahab.

Comment: The dua mentioned in Radd Al-Muhtar is mentioned from a book called "Kanz al-'Ibad" about which the great Hanafi scholar Mulla `Ali Qari (RA) gives a verdict:وفي هذا الكنز أحاديث سَمْجَة موضوعة، لا يحل سماعها

"This "Kanz" contains disgusting fabricated Ahadith. It is not permissible to even hear them!"

Shaykh Ghulam Mustafa Al-Sindhi (RA) states regarding the same "Kanzal-'Ibad":

إنه مملوء بالمسائل الواهية والأحاديث الموضوعة، لا عبرة له لا عند الفقهاء ولا عند المحدثين

It is full of weak Masa`il (issues) and fabricated Ahadith. Neither the Fuqaha, nor the Muhaddithin attach any weight to this book!

Allama Ibn ‘Abideen (RA) quotes the book "Al-Fatawa Al-Sufiyya" which is classed an unreliable and issues mentioned therein are not be practised upon by Allamah Birgivi (RA), Allamah Khadimi (RA), Allamah ‘Abdul Hai Lukhnawi (RA) and Shaykh Ghulam Mustafa Al-Sindhi (RA):
الفتاوى الصوفية ليست من الكتب المعتبرة فلا يجوز العمل بما فيها إلا إذا علم موافقتها للأصول
Water can only flow in one direction.


B: In the book "al Maqasid al Hasanah Fil Hadisil Atwirah Alas Sunnah". Imam Sakhawi Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho states,

ذكره الديلمي في الفردوس من حديث أبي بكر الصديق أنه لما سمع قول المؤذن ( أشهد أن محمدا رسول الله ) قال هذا وقبل باطن الانملتين السبابتين ومسح عينيه فقال ( من فعل مثل ما فعل خليلي فقد حلت عليه شفاعتي ) ولا يصح


"Dailmi reports that Hadrat Abu Bakr Siddique Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho once said 'When I heard the Muazzin say Ash'hadu anna Muhammadar-Rasoolullah SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam, I said the same, kissed the inner-side of my Kalima finger and placed it on my eyes. When the Holy Prophet SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam noticed this, he said. My intercession becomes obligatory upon he who does the same as my beloved.' This Hadith hasn't reached the classification of Sahih." [al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadith 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 384]


Comment: Your translation is wrong and deceptive but I can see from which spring of bida’ you have drunk. He is saying, "And this is not sahih". What you are suggesting is that the hadith has reach an authentic grade less than sahih, viz. hasan which is absolutely wrong. This is in actuality a fabricated hadith, not even a weak one. Here are the Details:
The Barelwi gives the above quotation from Maqaasid al Hasana.
As you can see the Arabic, Sakhawi's opinion is Wa La Yasihh.
The Barelwi translates it as "This Hadith hasn't reached the classification of Sahih".
This is gross misrepresentation. See what a Shafi'i mubtadi’ called Gibril Haddad has to write about the use of La Yasihh in Hadith gradings and discussions:
"Similarly, al-Qari understands la yathbut to mean la asla lahu when it means la yasihh. In a fiqhi discussion la yathbut and la yasihh mean that the hadith falls short of the rank of sahih but in a hadithic discussion of forgeries such terms mean the hadith is forged.
He follows al-Zarkashi, Ibn 'Arraq, and others in their misunderstanding of the term “inauthentic” (la yasihh) to allow that a hadith is not necessarily forged whereas in discussions of forgeries and strictly hadithic, non-fiqh literature that term is strictly synonymous with “forged,” “baseless,” and other such descriptions used by the Masters in the books specifically devoted to forgeries as demonstrated by Abu Ghudda in his introduction to the Masnoo' and elsewhere.
In the entry, “Whoever circumambulates this House seven times, prays two rakas behind the Station of Ibrahim, and drinks Zamzam water, all his sins shall be forgiven as many as they may be” al-Qari cites al-Sakhawi's ruling of la yasihh, i.e. forged, but al-Qari goes on, Al-Sakhawi’s statement that the hadith is inauthentic does not preclude its being weak or fair unless he meant to convey that it is unestablished (la yathbutu). It seems al-Minnawfi understood the latter since he says, in his Mukhtasar [of al-Sakhawi's Maqasid], “It is a falsehood (batil) without basis (la asla lahu).”
In reality both al-Sakhawi and al-Minnawfi are asserting the same thing, namely, that the hadith is forged; but al-Qari follows two of his idiosyncrasies: first, he misunderstands al-Sakhawi’s statement to mean other than “forged”; second, he uses the terms “unestablished” and “without basis” indifferently.” (Haddad’s quote ends here)

See Shaykh ‘Abd al Fattah Abu Ghudda’s al Masnoo’ for further details.
In the light of the above discussion which shows what the masters of hadith actually mean regarding the word La Yasihh in hadith discussions, read the following fatwa by our scholars:
Nabi (S.A.W.) says, “The actual miser is he in whose presence my name is taken, yet he does not recite Salaat upon me.”
This Saheeh Hadith and many others of its nature teach us to send salutations upon our beloved Nabi (S.A.W.) when his name is taken.
Kissing the thumbs on hearing the name of Nabi (S.A.W.) is an outright innovation. All narrations in this regard are fabricated. (Fataawaa Rahimiyyah, Vol. 2, Page 303-304, Vol. 1, Page 58). And Allah Ta’ala knows best
Ebrahim bin Zainul `Abedeen Backus
Attested to as correct by: Mufti Muhammad Ashraf
Darul Iftaa, Jameah Mahmoodiyah, Springs.

Hope there is clarity to the issue now and Sayyiduna Abi Bakr siddiq(ra) is absolved of what he did not do and the accusations of the enemies of the purified sunna of Muhammad(saws) are answered.

B: Quoting the book Moojibaat ar-RaHmah, Imam Sakhawi Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho further writes.
عن الخضر عليه السلام أنه من قال حين يسمع المؤذن يقول أشهد أن محمدا رسول الله مرحبا بحبيبي وقرة عيني محمد بن عبد الله ثم يقبل ابهاميه ويجعلهما على عينيه لم يرمد أبدا
"It is reported from Hadrat Khidr Alaihis Salam , "If a person says "Marhaban bi-Habibi Quratu Aini Muhammad ibn Abdullah" when hearing the Muazzin say "Ash'hadu anna Muhammadur-Rasoolullah, then kisses his thumbs and places them on his eyes, never will they (the eyes) be sore."
[al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadith 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 384]

Comment: Who reported it from Khadir(as)? Is this your daleel? Nonsense.
Shaykh Ahmad al-Raddad cited it in his book Mu’jibaat al Rahma (wa- ‘Azaaim al maghfira) with a broken chain containing unknown narrators from al-Khadir(as). In fact, everything related on this chapter is inauthentic as attributed to the Prophet(saws). (Mulla `Ali al-Qari’s Al-Asrar al-Marfu’a fil-Akhbar al-Mawdu`at)
Read this: Allama Muhammad Tahir Hanafi (RA) and Mulla `Ali Qari (RA) give a verdict about this narration in Tazkiratul-Maudua`at (page 36) and Al-Maudu`atul-Kabeer page 75):بسند فیھ مجاھیل مع انقطاعھ ۔ ۔ ۔
Its chain contains many narrators who are Majaheel and it is also disconnected.
Imam Baihaqi (RA) states in Kitaab ul Qir'aa (page 127):
فی ھذا الاسناد قوم مجھولون ولم یکلفنا اللہ تعالی ان یاخذ دیننا عمن لا نعرفھ
And in its chain are several narrators who are Majhool and Allah(SWT) has not made us responsible to take our religion from Majhool narrators.

B:He further writes that Abul Abbas Ahmad said that Muhammad ibn Baabaa, narrating his personal experience, states.
أنه هبت ريح فوقعت منه حصاة في عينه فأعياه خروجها وآلمته أشد الألم وأنه لما سمع المؤذن يقول أشهد أن محمدا رسول الله قال ذلك فخرجت الحصاة من فوره
"Once, due to a heavy wind blowing, a pebble hit my eye and refused to come out. I experienced major pain because of it." When Muhammad ibn Baabaa heard the Muazzin say "Ash 'hadu anna Muhammad ar-Rasoolullah, " he said this "Quratu Aini ... 'and, immediately, the pebble fell out." [al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadit 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 384]

Comment: We are interested in Muhammad ibn 'Abdillah (saws) not Mr Baa_Baa. Do you have something from Muhammad Rasulullah(saws) or not?

B:Allama Shams Muhammad ibn Saalih Madani Alaihis Salam reports Imam Amjad to have said.
من صلى على النبي إذا سمع ذكره في الاذان وجمع أصبعيه المسبحة والابهام وقبلهما ومسح بهما عينيه لم يرمد أبدا
"If the person who hears the name of the Noble Messenger SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam in the Adhaan joins his Kalima finger and his thumbs," "Kisses and places them on his eyes, never will they be sore." [al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadit 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 384]
Imam Amjad Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho who was an accomplished scholar in Egypt, further states,
بعض شيوخ العراق أو العجم أنه يقول عندما يمسح عينيه صلى لله عليك يا سيدي يا رسول الله يا حبيب قلبي ويا نور بصري ويا قرة عيني وقال لي كل منهما منذ فعله لم ترمد عيني
"Some non-Arab and Iraqi Mashaaikh have said that by this practice, the eyes will never be sore." "From the time I have brought this into practice even my eyes have not ached." [al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadit 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 384]
Ibn Saalih Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho states,
وأنا ولله الحمد والشكر منذ سمعته منهما استعملته فلم ترمد عيني وأرجو أن عافيتهما تدوم وأني أسلم من العمى إن شاء لله
"From the time I heard this benefit. I brought this action into practice. Since then, my eyes haven't become sore and it is my hope that, Insha-Allah, they will never be and I will be saved from being blind." [al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadit 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 385]
Imam Hasan Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho states, من قال حين يسمع المؤذن يقول أشهد أن محمدا رسول الله مرحبا بحبيبي وقرة عيني محمد بن عبد الله ويقبل إبهاميه ويجعلهما على عينيه لم يعم ولم يرمد
''The eyes of he who says 'Marhaban bi-Habibi wa Quratu Aini Muhammad ibn Abdullah' when hearing the Muazzin say "Ash'hadu anna Muhammad ar-Rasoolullah and kisses and places his thumbs on them will never pain nor will he become blind." [al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadit 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 385] In short, the book alMaqaasid al Hasanah confirms this practice by many Imams of the deen.

Comment: These are all stories. The book confirms this practice by some 'ulama of the Khalaf and that too as a nuskha` not a sunna and not a single one of the Salaf. So the decisions are worthless from a Shari'i point of view.[/COLOR]

B:Sharah Niqaaya states,
واعلم انه يستحب أن يقال عند سماع الأولى من الشهادة : صلى الله عليك يا رسول الله ، وعند الثانية منها : قرت عيني بك يا رسول الله ، وضع ظفري الإبهامين على العينين فإنه عليه السلام يكون قائدا له إلى الجنة ، كذا في كنز العباد
"It should be known that it is preferable (Mustahab) to say "Quratu Aini bika Ya Rasoolallah and place the thumbs on the eyes when hearing the first part of the second shahaadat. The Holy Prophet SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam wilt lead the person who does so into Jannat. Kanz al-Ibaad says likewise." [Jami' ar-Rumooz, Fasl al Adhan, Maktaba Islamiya (Iran), Vol 1, Page 125]
Maulana Jamaal ibn Abdullah ibn Umar Makki Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho states in his Fataawa,
تقبيل الابھامين ووضعھما على العينين عند ذكر اسمه عليه السلام في الاذان جائز بل مستحب صرح به مشائخنا
"Taqbeelul-Ibhaamain (kissing and placing the thumbs on the eyes when hearing the blessed name of Rasoolullah SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam in Adhaan) not just permissible, but Mustahab. Our Mashaaikh have elucidated this.” [Fatawa Jamal Ibn Abdullah Ibn Umar Makki]
Allama Muhammad Taahir Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho classifying this Hadith as Ghair-Sahih, also states,
وروي تجربة عن كثيرين "There are many reports of this benefit being experienced." [Khatima Majma' BiHar al-Anwaar, Vol 3, Page 511]
There are many other quotations besides these that can also be presented.

Comment: The stories of story tellers are indeed endless but we are interested in the Qur'an and Sunna. Do you have anything to do with them?

B: For the sake of conciseness. we make do with only these. Hadrat Sadr al-Afadhil, Maulana Sayyed Muhammad Naeemuddin Muraadabaai states that a very ancient copy of the Injeel (New Testament) has been discovered. It is known as the Gospel of Barnabas and has been translated into almost every language. The majority of its rulings and laws resemble Islamic commands.

Comment: The Gospel of Barnabas is a forgery and is as fabricated as the Juz' al Mafqud of 'Abd al Razzaq. So are you contemplating becoming Christians now?

B:It's written inside that when Hadrat Adam Alaihis Salam wished to see the Noor of the Beloved Mustapha SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam (Rooh al-Quds). The Noor was made bright on the nails of his thumbs. Hadrat Adam Alaihis Salam then kissed and placed them on his eyes out of love and appreciation.

Comment: Sounds like a TV serial in India called Ramayana. So nowadays you take your dala'il from the New Testament? How desperate and cheap can you get?

B:Besides the Ulama of the Hanafi Mad'hab, Ulama from the Shafee and Maaliki Mad'habs have also ruled the kissing of the thumbs (Taqbeel al-Ibhaamain) to be Mustahab. A famous Shafa'ee book of Fiqh, I'aanatut-Taalibeen 'Alaa Hali alfaazi Fat'hil-Mu'een, states,
ثم يقبل ابھاميه و يجعلھما على عينيه لم يعم ولم يرمد ابدا
"Then kiss and place your thumbs on your eyes. By doing so, never will you become blind nor will your eyes be sore,' [I'aanatut-Taalibeen, Page 247, Egyptian Edition]
Another famous book of the Maaliki Mad'hab, Kifaayat at-Taalib ar Rabbani Ii Risaalati Ibn Abi Zaid Qeerwaani Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho, after saying much about this practice, states,
عينيه لم يعم ولم يرمد ابدا "Never will the eyes of the person who does so pain, nor will he become blind." [Kifaayat at-Taalib ar Rabbani, Vol 1, Page 169, Egyptian Edition]
Shaikh Ali Saeed Adawi Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho writes in his commentary of this extract,
لم يبين موضع التقبيل من ابھامين الا انه نقل عن الشيخ العالم المفسر نور الدين الخراساني قال بعضهم لقيته وقت الاذان فلما سمع الموذن يقول اشھد ان محمدا رسول الله قبل ابھامي نفسه و مسح بالظفرين اجفان عينيه من الماق الي ناحيه الصدع ثم فعل ذلك عند كل تشھد مرة فسالته عن ذلك ففقال كنت افعله ثم تركته فمرضت عيناي فرئيته صلى الله عليه وسلم مناما فقال لما تركت مسح عينيك عند الاذان ان اردت ان تبرء عيناك فعد في المسح فاستيقظت و مسحت فبرئت ولم يعاود في مرضھا الي الان
"The writer didn't mention when the thumbs should be kissed. However, it is reported that some people met Allama Mufassir Nooruddin Khorasaani Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho at the time of Adhaan. When he heard the Muazzin say "Ash'hadu anna Muhammad ar-Rasoolullah he kissed and placed his thumbs on the eyelashes and comer of his eyes, right until the temples. He did this on every shahaadat. When the people asked him about this practice of his, he replied, "I used to kiss my thumbs but stopped after a while. My eyes later became sore. I then saw the Holy Prophet SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam in a dream and he said to me, "Why did you stop kissing your thumbs and placing them on the eyes during the Adhaan? If you want your eyes to stop paining, resume this practice." Thus, from then on, I continued this action and gained comfort. The pain didn't return from the time I recommenced this." [Nahjul-Istamia, Page 177]


Comment: One fake hadith and one dream. That is the extent of your daleel in this long, tedious, nonsensical post.

B:Important Note: Direct narrations and Ahadith have been presented regarding this practice in Adhaan. Takbeer (lqaamat) is in the likeness of Adhaan, and it has even been called Adhaan in the Ahadith. Therefore, kissing and placing the thumbs during the Takbeer is also beneficial and a means of blessings but during Salah or a Khutba or whilst listening to the Qur’an it should not be done!

Comment: Direct FORGED narrations and MAWDU`ahadith have been presented for this practice in Adhaan. Kindly Take home the same for Iqaama in order to misguide your relatives and friends.


B:Not performing it during salah is evident and the impermissibility during listening to the khutba or the Qur’an is because one should have utmost attention at these times and refrain from any unnecessary movements. When the verse Maa kaana muhammadun abaa ahadim mir rijalikum is recited, so many people kiss their thumbs, it is as if birds have gathered to sing and they do it to such an extent that people from afar cannot even hear some words of the holy Qur’an. Even if there is no harm to place the thumbs on the lips and then place them on the eyes at this time; there is no ruling to make a sound during the kiss of reverence – like when one kisses the black stone, the ka’aba, the Qur’an or the hands and feet of the pious. There is no rule to make the noises like a flock of birds.

Comment: When there is no ruling for the kiss itself then how can there be a ruling for making smooching sounds?
Their prayer at the House (of Allah) is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands: (its only answer can be) "Taste ye the penalty because ye blasphemed. Sura Anfal, v. 35

B:Conclusion:This entire discussion establishes that kissing and placing the thumbs during the Adhaan, etc. is Mustahab. It is found as the Sunnat of' Hadrat Adam Alaihis Salam, Abu Bakr Siddique Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho and Imam Hasan Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho.

Comment: Very true. It is proven from false ahadith.

B: Even Imams of the Shafa'ee and Maaliki Mad'habs have ruled it to be Mustahab. In every era, Muslim deemed this practice to have this very ruling, along with the following benefits,

Comment: \Wow! Kya daleel pesh ki hai! So the world of Bida' is not populated by you Barelwis alone! Lovely! We thought that you alone carried the banner of shirk and bida’ in the world but it seems that there are people of every hue with you. Mashallah.

B:The eyes of a person who does this are saved from being sore.

1. Insha-Allah, he will never become blind.


2. It is an excellent cure to remove something problematic to the eyes. These benefits have been experienced several times.

Comment: What is the use of seeing with the eyes when the heart is blind? By the way are you writing a book on ophthalmology or an article on fiqh?

3. The Prophet SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam will intercede for the one who practices this.

4. Sayyiduna Rasoolullah SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam will also search for the person who used to perform it and lead him into Jannah.

As long as no explicit proof of its prohibition is found, It cannot be stopped. Muslims deeming something preferable (Mustahab) is sufficient proof for it being so. However, for certification of Karaahat (i.e. to deem something Makrooh), a specific proof is needed! So, Calling this practice Haraam is sheer ignorance and an act of prejudice and strait-mindedness of a person afflicted with the blindness of Faith (Eiman). May Allah protect us from falling to this depth of depravity and deviation from the right path... Aameen!!

Comment: Yes. Very right. Doing things according the the Sharia' and asking for evidence is sheer ignorance and an act of prejudice. Letting every Bida' grow like grass under your feet is actually Sunna. Mashallah./COLOR]

والله سبحانه وتعالى اعلم ورسوله اعلم بالصواب
B: Almighty Allah SubHanuhu wa Ta'ala and His Beloved Rasool Sallallaho Alaihi wa Aalihi wa Sallam knows the best!

Comment: Allah knows Best.

The above is the edited post.
Reply

أبو سليمان عمر
11-29-2010, 11:15 AM
i see what you are saying well akhi maybe the shaykh holds the view that the hadith is weak as do other schoalrs which im sure you knoأw
Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali said:

Concerning the virtue of the night of the fifteenth of Sha’baan there are numerous ahaadeeth, concerning which the scholars differed,
but most of them classed them as da’eef
, and Ibn Hibbaan classed some of them as saheeh.

Lataa’if al-Ma’aazif, 261.

In al-Zawaa’id it says: Its isnaad is da’eef, because ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Lahee’ah is da’eef (weak) and al-Waleed ibn Muslim is mudallis.

There is also some idtiraab (weakness) in the hadeeth, as stated by al-Daaraqutni in al-‘Ilal, 6/50, 51. He said: This hadeeth is not proven.

It was narrated from Mu’aadh ibn Jabal, ‘Aa’ishah, Abu Hurayrah, Abu Tha’labah al-Khushani and others, but the isnaads are not free of some weakness, and some of them are very weak.

and Allah knows best
Reply

tigerkhan
11-29-2010, 03:16 PM
:sl:
MashALLAH its nice and v.useful thread. i just want to say few lines.
qst about kissing ur thumb etc...i smile by reading above posts. brothers dont u think that its duty of Ulama to disscuss this and proves what right or wrong !! i think we at this stage just need to go to our authetic Aalim and what he say we act upon this.
2ndly what is bidha..... most of ppl define it as anything new in islam. BUT to me the most correct definition is; to do anything wrong and u have in mind that i am not doing wrong, i am right. (ghalat kam ko sahee samj kay karna).
So Hazrat Aysha RA said the first bidha in islam was to eat full.~(paet bhar kay khana). similarly there is another Hidath ' shatian says that i attacked/harm human with sins but they attack and harm me with toba/repentence, when i see this, i indulge them in bidha and they think that they are doing right.'
i heard it is in hadith that ALLAH SWT doesnot accept the toba of bidha ppl.
now all of us think either we are doing something which is islamically not correct and we are taking it as correct.....? one more imp thing. its comes in hadith there are lot of fitna near to qiyama, suhaba RA asked, what is the sign that someone indulged in them, it was said that if he think something wrong as a right and he take something right/correct as a wrong..
i hope u will got much if u think on above lines.
Reply

أبو سليمان عمر
11-29-2010, 04:00 PM
akhi in sort the prophet didnt do it the sahaba didnt do it there for it is a bidah to do and it is not permissable
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever does an action that is not in accordance with this matters of ours will have it rejected.” Narrated by Muslim, 1718.
And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Beware of newly-invented matters, for every newly-invented matter is an innovation, and every innovation is a going astray.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 4607; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

as for bidah well then it means somthng newly invented in the deen some act of worship that isnt prescribe by the prophet an act to get a closer to Allah in a manner that the prophet did do
Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “According to sharee’ah, the definition is ‘Worshipping Allaah in ways that Allaah has not prescribed.’ If you wish you may say, ‘Worshipping Allaah in ways that are not those of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his rightly guided successors (al-khulafaa’ al-raashidoon).’”

The first definition is taken from the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Or have they partners with Allaah (false gods) who have instituted for them a religion which Allaah has not ordained?” [al-Shooraa 42:21]

The second definition is taken from the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who said:

“I urge you to adhere to my way (Sunnah) and the way of the rightly-guided successors (al-khulafa’ al-raashidoon) who come after me. Hold fast to it and bite onto it with your eyeteeth [i.e., cling firmly to it], and beware of newly-invented matters.”

So everyone who worships Allaah in a manner that Allaah has not prescribed or in a manner that is not in accordance with the way of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his rightly-guided successors (al-khulafa’ al-raashidoon), is an innovator, whether that innovated worship has to do with the names and attributes of Allaah, or to do with His rulings and laws.

With regard to ordinary matters of habit and custom, these are not called bid’ah (innovation) in Islam, even though they may be described as such in linguistic terms. But they are not innovations in the religious sense, and these are not the things that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was warning us against.

And there is no such thing in Islam as bid’ah hasanah (good innovation).”

(Majmoo’ Fataawa Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, vol. 2, p. 291)
Reply

Tawangar
11-29-2010, 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by أبو سليمان عمر
i see what you are saying well akhi maybe the shaykh holds the view that the hadith is weak as do other schoalrs which im sure you knoأw
Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali said:

Concerning the virtue of the night of the fifteenth of Sha’baan there are numerous ahaadeeth, concerning which the scholars differed,, and Ibn Hibbaan classed some of them as saheeh.

Lataa’if al-Ma’aazif, 261.

In al-Zawaa’id it says: Its isnaad is da’eef, because ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Lahee’ah is da’eef (weak) and al-Waleed ibn Muslim is mudallis.

There is also some idtiraab (weakness) in the hadeeth, as stated by al-Daaraqutni in al-‘Ilal, 6/50, 51. He said: This hadeeth is not proven.

It was narrated from Mu’aadh ibn Jabal, ‘Aa’ishah, Abu Hurayrah, Abu Tha’labah al-Khushani and others, but the isnaads are not free of some weakness, and some of them are very weak.

and Allah knows best
:sl: Brother. Okay. We will not argue about this for much longer. But I believe that showing both sides of the coin is important. As for Shaykh Nasir's position in hadith it is known to everyone. Shaykh Bin Baz and Ibn Jibreen do not carry the same weight in jarh wa ta'dil. Which is why you will find people saying, 'Albani said sahih', 'Albani said Da'if', 'Albani said mursal jayyid'.......but not a single example in the books of hadith where you will read/hear that 'Bin Baz said sahih/da'if'...or Ibn Jibrin said 'such-and-such about this hadith'.........My opinion is that the virtue of this night as a night of forgiveness is established. Secondly since it comes in the ayyam-e-beed and it is a night of forgiveness keeping a fast is mustahabb. Thirdly a person has the right to as much infiraadi(personal) ibada' that he wants to do in this night seeking Allah's favour and forgiveness. WS.
Reply

أبو سليمان عمر
11-29-2010, 07:31 PM
:sl: Brother. Okay. We will not argue about this for much longer
.
Insha Allah
But I believe that showing both sides of the coin is important.
if a scholar holds a veiw to be strong the why should he show both sides? i mean is it a must?
As for Shaykh Nasir's position in hadith it is known to everyone. Shaykh Bin Baz and Ibn Jibreen do not carry the same weight in jarh wa ta'dilWhich is why you will find people saying, 'Albani said sahih', 'Albani said Da'if', 'Albani said mursal jayyid'...
naam shaykh albani was a great muhadith and i believe it was shaykh muqbil who said if the shaykh (albani) says a hadith to be weak then more then likly it is meaning he really studied a hadith and wont class it weak unless he is certain Insha Allah
....but not a single example in the books of hadith where you will read/hear that 'Bin Baz said sahih/da'if'...or Ibn Jibrin said 'such-and-such about this hadith'
the point here is what akhi? akhi they see the ahadith as weak as do many scholars old and new since they dont have a book of ahadith is that suppose to stop them?
.........My opinion is that the virtue of this night as a night of forgiveness is established.
this is your opinion
Secondly since it comes in the ayyam-e-beed and it is a night of forgiveness keeping a fast is mustahabb.
naam akhi and this scholars such as ibn uthaymeen ibn baz fowzan all say this as well if it is a practiice you do then u should do it becasue u are not singling the 15th out rather you are fasting 13 14 15 of all months hence it is just like that and you should do it
Thirdly a person has the right to as much infiraadi(personal) ibada' that he wants to do in this night seeking Allah's favour and forgiveness. WS.
naam if that is what he does so long as he doesnt single out that day akhi that is the point me personal im a nobody but shayak albani says the hadith is sahih with many other scholars but again no where in this hadith does it mentioned to stay up or to single this night out akhi so in short if it is a custom then go for it if you are doing it becasue it is the 15th of shaban then this is no longer permissable and now is a bidah..... there are many scholars of old and of our days who say the ahadith are weak
Reply

Tawangar
11-30-2010, 08:21 AM
"if a scholar holds a veiw to be strong the why should he show both sides? i mean is it a must?"

If the evidence that the scholar offers is weak and he ignores the most important part of the daleel, then his fatwa can be flawed as shown earlier.

the point here is what akhi? akhi they see the ahadith as weak as do many scholars old and new since they dont have a book of ahadith is that suppose to stop them?

It seems that it did not stop them. Either their knowledge is not all that it is hyped to be or they were following an agenda.

this is your opinion

Yes. It is my opinion based on the sahih hadith.

naam akhi and this scholars such as ibn uthaymeen ibn baz fowzan all say this as well if it is a practiice you do then u should do it becasue u are not singling the 15th out rather you are fasting 13 14 15 of all months hence it is just like that and you should do it

Not necessarily all months. See the section of Sahih Muslim which is specific to the month of Shaban that I have posted.

naam if that is what he does so long as he doesnt single out that day akhi that is the point me personal im a nobody but shayak albani says the hadith is sahih with many other scholars but again no where in this hadith does it mentioned to stay up or to single this night out akhi so in short if it is a custom then go for it if you are doing it becasue it is the 15th of shaban then this is no longer permissable and now is a bidah..... there are many scholars of old and of our days who say the ahadith are weak[/QUOTE]

As I said, it is a night of forgiveness. You choose how you want to spend this night, sleeping or worshipping. The choice is yours.
Reply

Tawangar
11-30-2010, 09:36 AM
Al Imam Shafi’i said:

و بلغنا أنه كان يقال إن الرعاء يستجاب في خمس في ليال في ليلة جمعة و ليلة الأضحى و ليلة الفطر و اول ليلة من رجب و ليلة النصف من شعبان

Tr: Of the narrations that have reached us, verily, dua is accepted on five nights: the night of Juma’, the night of E’id Al-Adha, the night of E’id Al-Fitr, the first night of Rajab, and the 15th night of Shabaan”. [kitab al-Umm]

Imam Shurunbulali Hanafi writes:

وندب احياء ليالي العشر الاخبر من رمضان واحياء ليلتي العيدين وليالي عشر زي الحجة وليلة النصف من شعبان

Tr: It is desirable to revive the last ten nights of Ramadan, two nights of Eidain (Eid ul-Fitr and Eid ul-Adha), ten nights of Zil Hijjah, and the 15th night of Sha`ban. [Nur ul iddah Page No. 63]


Shaikh Abu Ishaq Ibrahim Al-Hanbali writes:

ويستحب احيا مابين العشانين الخبر قال جماعة و ليلة عاشورا وليلة اول رجب وليلة نصف شعبان

Tr: It is desirable to revive the time (with salat and ibadah) between the two E’sha’s (Maghrib and E’sha) because of the ahadith. Many scholars say: Similarly with the night of Ashura, the first night of Rajab, and the 15th night of Sha`ban. [Al-Mubdi’ Volume 002, Page No. 27]

Sheikh Mansoor Bahuti Hanbali writes:

واما ليلة النصف من شعبان ففيها فضل وكان في السلف من يصلي فيها الاجتماح فيها لا حيانهافي المساجد بدعة اه وفئ استحباب قيامها اي ليلة النصف من شعبان مافئ احياء ليلة العيد

Tr: As for the 15th night of Sha`ban, it is a night of virtue. Some of the salaf prayed the whole night, although establishing congregational prayers (on this night) is good innovation. And the reward of ibadah on "the 15th night of Sha`ban" is the same as the reward of ibadah on the night of E’id. [Kash-shaful Qina, Volume 001: Page No. 444]

‘Abd al rahmaan Mubarakpuri as Salafi writes:

‏اعلم أنه قد ورد في فضيلة ليلة النصف من شعبان عدة أحاديث مجموعها يدل على أن لها أصلا

Tr: You should know that a sufficient number of hadith has been narrated confirming "the virtues of the 15th night of Sha`ban". All these ahadith prove that it has a basis.

After relating many Ahadith about the importance of this night he says:

فهذه الأحاديث بمجموعها حجة على من زعم أنه لم يثبت في فضيلة ليلة النصف من شعبان شيء والله تعالى أعلم

Tr: The sum of all these ahadith is strong evidence against the one "who thinks there is no proof" of the virtue of the 15th night of Sha`ban" and Allah knows best. [Tuhfat ul Ahwadhi Sharh Sunan Tirmidhi, Volume 003: Page. 365-367]


Imam Ibn Taymiyyah was asked about of the 15th night of Sha’ban. He replied:

اما ليلة النصف روئ فئ فضلهااحاديث واثار ونقل عن طانفتهمن السلف انهم كانوايصلون فيها فصلاة الرجل فيها وحده وقد تقدمه فيه سلف فيه حجته فلا ينكرمثل هزا

Tr: As for the 15th night of Shabaan, there are many narrations and Athar regarding its virtue. It has been reported of the salaf that they prayed in this night. Therefore, praying alone on this night, having precedence in the salaf, is sufficient evidence and something of this kind surely cannot be denied.

At another occasion, Ibn Taymiyyah was asked the same question and he replied:

وسنل عن صلاة نصف شعبان فاجاب ازا صلئ الانسان ليلة النصف وحده اوفئ جماعته خاصته كما كان يفل جماعته خاصته كما كان يفعل طوانف من السلف فهواحسن

Tr: If one prays on this night alone or in a select company of people as many groups amongst the salaf did, "then it is good". [Fatawa Ibn Taymiyyah Volume 23, Page 131-132]
Reply

أبو سليمان عمر
12-01-2010, 01:28 AM
If the evidence that the scholar offers is weak and he ignores the most important part of the daleel, then his fatwa can be flawed as shown earlier.
akhi the shaykh said there is no Authentic daleel meaning he finds them to be weak correct so hence his fatwa is not flawed in this case i can say those you have mentioned flawed becasue others say the hadith is weak and the say its not akhi this is ilm and not only the shaykh ibn baz says they are weak Albani himself says and most of them say it is weak in the same place he says it is sahih and shaykh albani also considers singling out that night in worship as bidah

It seems that it did not stop them. Either their knowledge is not all that it is hyped to be or they were following an agenda.
can u explain what u mean here
if you mean he does have books on ahadith well akhi not all scholars some speical in other things and work on other matters akhi doesnt change the fact that the shaykh is a very knowledgeable shaykh and to be considered one of the great scholars of our times

Yes. It is my opinion based on the sahih hadith.
yes akhi a sahih hadith to you and shyakh albani and other scholars alhumdulillah then take it but to other scholars this hadith is weak

Not necessarily all months. See the section of Sahih Muslim which is specific to the month of Shaban that I have posted.
my point was if it was a habit for example you fasted every 13th 14th 15th or every monday and thursday or you fast most of shaban like the prophet did then this is fine and we all know that the prophet fast alot in shaban and it is good to but not to make A DAY IN SHABAN singled out for the prophet didnt do that

As I said, it is a night of forgiveness. You choose how you want to spend this night, sleeping or worshipping. The choice is yours.
it is better to pray on this day just like it is better to pray on anyother day it is mustahab to pray alqiyam every night not becasue it is the 15th sole puprse


Insha Allah i will reply to your other post later on tonite or tomorrow morning but remeber this if we differ in a matter we return it to Allah and rasool Allah Insha Allah
Reply

أبو سليمان عمر
12-01-2010, 03:26 AM
Imam Shurunbulali Hanafi writes:

وندب احياء ليالي العشر الاخبر من رمضان واحياء ليلتي العيدين وليالي عشر زي الحجة وليلة النصف من شعبان

Tr: It is desirable to revive the last ten nights of Ramadan, two nights of Eidain (Eid ul-Fitr and Eid ul-Adha), ten nights of Zil Hijjah, and the 15th night of Sha`ban. [Nur ul iddah Page No. 63]


Shaikh Abu Ishaq Ibrahim Al-Hanbali writes:

ويستحب احيا مابين العشانين الخبر قال جماعة و ليلة عاشورا وليلة اول رجب وليلة نصف شعبان

Tr: It is desirable to revive the time (with salat and ibadah) between the two E’sha’s (Maghrib and E’sha) because of the ahadith. Many scholars say: Similarly with the night of Ashura, the first night of Rajab, and the 15th night of Sha`ban. [Al-Mubdi’ Volume 002, Page No. 27]

Sheikh Mansoor Bahuti Hanbali writes:

واما ليلة النصف من شعبان ففيها فضل وكان في السلف من يصلي فيها الاجتماح فيها لا حيانهافي المساجد بدعة اه وفئ استحباب قيامها اي ليلة النصف من شعبان مافئ احياء ليلة العيد

Tr: As for the 15th night of Sha`ban, it is a night of virtue. Some of the salaf prayed the whole night, although establishing congregational prayers (on this night) is good innovation. And the reward of ibadah on "the 15th night of Sha`ban" is the same as the reward of ibadah on the night of E’id. [Kash-shaful Qina, Volume 001: Page No. 444]
first i would like to say if a scholar has ijtihad and is wrong he is rewared 1 hasan
as for the rest of this saying well where is the prophet where is the prophet said we know that good times to make dua is between adahan and iqamah we know that the thrid part of the night is a time dua is answered we know the an hour on friday also when drinking zamzam and the night of qadr and when raining , a travler , a parent for his kid on the day of arafat in ramadon when breaking fast and the list goes on all this are good times to make dua why becasue we have athaar we have sunnah we have ahadith to say so now where is the adalial for nifs shaban akhi
‘Abd al rahmaan Mubarakpuri as Salafi writes:

‏اعلم أنه قد ورد في فضيلة ليلة النصف من شعبان عدة أحاديث مجموعها يدل على أن لها أصلا

Tr: You should know that a sufficient number of hadith has been narrated confirming "the virtues of the 15th night of Sha`ban". All these ahadith prove that it has a basis.

After relating many Ahadith about the importance of this night he says:

فهذه الأحاديث بمجموعها حجة على من زعم أنه لم يثبت في فضيلة ليلة النصف من شعبان شيء والله تعالى أعلم

Tr: The sum of all these ahadith is strong evidence against the one "who thinks there is no proof" of the virtue of the 15th night of Sha`ban" and Allah knows best. [Tuhfat ul Ahwadhi Sharh Sunan Tirmidhi, Volume 003: Page. 365-367]
alhumdulillah we have went over this akhi there are scholars who say it has its goods due to a hadith they find authentic may Allah reward them but lets also remeber that no were does this hadith indicate singling out this night in worship --- now lets say you say this hadith is sahih and you fast most of shaban and u pray most nights for qiyam and the 15th comes and you do the same but you are more sincer this night and have more khuso becasue of this hadith alhumdulillah but to single out this day is a bidah
Imam Ibn Taymiyyah was asked about of the 15th night of Sha’ban. He replied:

اما ليلة النصف روئ فئ فضلهااحاديث واثار ونقل عن طانفتهمن السلف انهم كانوايصلون فيها فصلاة الرجل فيها وحده وقد تقدمه فيه سلف فيه حجته فلا ينكرمثل هزا

Tr: As for the 15th night of Shabaan, there are many narrations and Athar regarding its virtue. It has been reported of the salaf that they prayed in this night. Therefore, praying alone on this night, having precedence in the salaf, is sufficient evidence and something of this kind surely cannot be denied.
the first sentence akhi we went over already alhumdulillah... the salaf prayed most of shaban and other then shaban praying qiyam is mustahab so why should they not this night see if you see what the shaykh says he says praying alone has been done by the salaf so we should do it to do to the fact they use to pray it like the prayed every night no where does it say they singled out this night and if you read below more detailed insha Allah
At another occasion, Ibn Taymiyyah was asked the same question and he replied:

وسنل عن صلاة نصف شعبان فاجاب ازا صلئ الانسان ليلة النصف وحده اوفئ جماعته خاصته كما كان يفل جماعته خاصته كما كان يفعل طوانف من السلف فهواحسن

Tr: If one prays on this night alone or in a select company of people as many groups amongst the salaf did, "then it is good". [Fatawa Ibn Taymiyyah Volume 23, Page 131-132]
see akhi if you were to read the rest of the fatwa the same one there is only one more sentence
وأما الاجتماع في المساجد على صلاة مقدرة . كالاجتماع على مائة ركعة بقراءة ألف : { قل هو الله أحد } دائما . فهذا بدعة لم يستحبها أحد من الأئمة . والله أعلم
if you can translte it that will be nice but you see here he says if you go to misjid or do other acts basicly that u dont usually do it is a bidah so what im saying is that if they did it they did it every night hence it most nights so it isnt single out that night
Reply

Salafi1407
12-05-2010, 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by Zafran
Salaam

Its quite simple - did the prophet tell the sahaba to collect the Quran in book form - the answer is no - so its a bida - but its a good bida as we believe Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) did the right thing clearly.

Peace.
Salam

Brother but this isn't an act of worship is it? They did not do it with the hope that they will gain rewards. You are interpreting the term bidah all wrong. If it were an innovation with the intent of gaining reward then that is deemed a sin. This wasn't an act of worship just merely preserving the holy words of Allah. Making it more accessible for the ummah.

Here are a few bidah's I came across in masajids I used to go to when I was naive...

1. Congregational dua (or the fact that they make it compulsory and perform it after every single salaat, some hurry through their salaat to join in on the dua, which is best done individually anyway)
2. 15th Shaaban
3. Milad-un-nabi (which can be compared to shirk seeing as many believe that the prophet (pbuh) is alive and he will be in our presence if we perform this act, and therefore we make dua to him instead of Allah (swt)
4. Verbal intention before prayer (naayitual nussalliya lillahi tahlaaa..... intention is in the heart it doesn't need to be made verbal, when you are going to eat you don't make a verbal intention now do u?)
5. wearing of the hat is compulsury but beard is voluntary (thought of general public not the mosques themselves)
6. on jummah they do a lecture/sermon first in the local language (note this is not the khutbah) Then they go on to do the kutbah in arabic even though no one understands it (they believe doing the kutbah itself in the local language is not allowed)
7. placing a death stone in the graveyard to ID the dead person.
8. grave worship - making dua facing the graves = grave worship im afraid.

These ones are of the top of my head, and im sure sadly they still exist in these mosques. I go to a salafi masajid now, and alhamdullillah I feel the sukoon, peace and fullfillment of my daily prayers now because none of these innovations exist.
Reply

Nuha38318
12-10-2010, 08:30 AM
It is also bid'ah to say "Jumah Mubarak!" as neither the Prophet, sal Allahu alayhi wa salam, nor his companions said that. As stated by Saudi Sheikh al-Hakeem.
Reply

أبو سليمان عمر
12-11-2010, 04:53 AM
It is also bid'ah to say "Jumah Mubarak!" as neither the Prophet, sal Allahu alayhi wa salam, nor his companions said that. As stated by Saudi Sheikh al-Hakeem.
naam sis it is
Reply

Zafran
12-13-2010, 09:25 AM
Originally Posted by Ruhul
Salam

Brother but this isn't an act of worship is it? They did not do it with the hope that they will gain rewards. You are interpreting the term bidah all wrong. If it were an innovation with the intent of gaining reward then that is deemed a sin. This wasn't an act of worship just merely preserving the holy words of Allah. Making it more accessible for the ummah.

Here are a few bidah's I came across in masajids I used to go to when I was naive...

1. Congregational dua (or the fact that they make it compulsory and perform it after every single salaat, some hurry through their salaat to join in on the dua, which is best done individually anyway)
2. 15th Shaaban
3. Milad-un-nabi (which can be compared to shirk seeing as many believe that the prophet (pbuh) is alive and he will be in our presence if we perform this act, and therefore we make dua to him instead of Allah (swt)
4. Verbal intention before prayer (naayitual nussalliya lillahi tahlaaa..... intention is in the heart it doesn't need to be made verbal, when you are going to eat you don't make a verbal intention now do u?)
5. wearing of the hat is compulsury but beard is voluntary (thought of general public not the mosques themselves)
6. on jummah they do a lecture/sermon first in the local language (note this is not the khutbah) Then they go on to do the kutbah in arabic even though no one understands it (they believe doing the kutbah itself in the local language is not allowed)
7. placing a death stone in the graveyard to ID the dead person.
8. grave worship - making dua facing the graves = grave worship im afraid.

These ones are of the top of my head, and im sure sadly they still exist in these mosques. I go to a salafi masajid now, and alhamdullillah I feel the sukoon, peace and fullfillment of my daily prayers now because none of these innovations exist.
Salaam

Your saying that collecting the Quran in a book from is not an act of worship - You dont think the Sahaba will get rewarded for that??

Some of those 10 points without doubt have difference of opnion if you look outside the salafi ulema Shaban, the milad for example.

Points 4,5 and 6 or well minor issues - 6 people need a lecture and its not part of Kuthba - but people need warnings and speeches of hope in there own language - sadly Jummah is sometimes only when Muslims come to the masjid.
7 is a dunya issue - I dont think putting a gravestone for ID is an act of worship?
Reply

Salafi1407
12-16-2010, 12:45 AM
Originally Posted by Zafran
Your saying that collecting the Quran in a book from is not an act of worship - You dont think the Sahaba will get rewarded for that?? Some of those 10 points without doubt have difference of opnion if you look outside the salafi ulema Shaban, the milad for example. Points 4,5 and 6 or well minor issues - 6 people need a lecture and its not part of Kuthba - but people need warnings and speeches of hope in there own language - sadly Jummah is sometimes only when Muslims come to the masjid. 7 is a dunya issue - I dont think putting a gravestone for ID is an act of worship?

How is it an act of worship? Did the prophet (pbuh) do it? And anyway the prophet (pbuh) said after him the best example of men are his companions.

ibnalhyderabadee.wordpress.com/2006/04/11/legacy-of-abu-bakr-compilation-of-the-quraan/

Umar (Radi Allahu Anhu) went to Abu Bakr (Radi Allahu Anhu) and told him that, “Qur’an is something that is in the hearts of the people, when the people go away the Qur’an goes away. We must do something in order to preserve the Qur’an, we should compile it into a book.” = not act of worship, but desperate need to preserve in order for the message to keep going. read the whole article.

Regarding my points minor issues or not an innovation is an inovation. these people do these things with the hope and expectation of gaining extra reward where it is nowhere to be seen in the quran and sunnah, the prophet (pbuh) did not do it nor did Allah swt tell us to do it. They make it FARD!! i.e. never miss this particular action, which in itself is haram. What if I decided to pray 2 extra rakaat at fajr every morning coz i got time? thats bidah. and different opinions or not unless a sahih hadeeth or the quran shows these acts are valid then i aint having it.

milad? how can you justify such a shirk act. that is the most absurd thing i have witnessed. when we make dua we say "ya allah...." when they "perform" this milad they say " ya nabi salam u alayka ya rasool salamu alayka" and they stand up to give him the salams and respect he deserves. and then they ask HIM for forgiveness. some people even put chairs for him to sit on. now how can ANYONE justify such a shirk act.
Reply

أبو سليمان عمر
12-16-2010, 07:11 AM
Some of those 10 points without doubt have difference of opnion if you look outside the salafi ulema Shaban, the milad for example.
akhi we dont look for ikhtilaf we look for haqq and what the prophet and compains didnt do and we do as an act of worship is bidah

Points 4,5 and 6 or well minor issues - 6 people need a lecture and its not part of Kuthba - but people need warnings and speeches of hope in there own language - sadly Jummah is sometimes only when Muslims come to the masjid.
as of four even if some say it is permissable they are wrong it is a bidah and if you would like i can show you what many scholars say about this as for 5 this is also not right to say that the sunnah act is wajib and the wajib act is sunnah this is ignorant akhi and the daleels shows those who say it are wrong as for 6 Allah knows best
7 is a dunya issue - I dont think putting a gravestone for ID is an act of worship?
naam akhi it is permissable so long as there is no writing on it what so ever according to scholars and Allah knows best see akhi if the haqq is with even one scholar and the rest are against it we take the haqq and the haqq is not the scholar himself rather it is his proof

Question: Some people place a sign with a big stone made of marble or some other specific sign to indicate the grave of the deceased so as to facilitate future visits without doubt as to the location of the grave.
Response: There is no harm in placing a large stone as an indicator by which the grave can be identified during (future) visits. This is because the Messenger (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) did this with the grave of 'Uthmaan (obviously not 'Uthmaan ibn 'Affaan - who died after the Messenger (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) himself).
Shaykh Ibn Fowzaan
Fataawa li Ahlil-Mayyit - Question 29, Page 32
al-Muntaqaa min Fataawa al-Fowzaan - Volume 1, Page 194
Reply

Ubeyde
04-14-2011, 07:35 PM
Asalamu Alaykum Wa Rahmutallahi Wa barakutu

Jazakarallah Khair for your post.

I didn't take the time to look through all the posts, and therefore, do not know if these were already posted as examples of Biddah practiced in the Ummah today..

1. Ismaeli -- i.e. Praying Fajr, missing Zuhr, and Asr and Isha and praying twice at Magrib as well as a whole of host of innovated beliefs.
2. Grave Worship
Reply

Salahudeen
04-16-2011, 03:01 AM
Abdullaah ibn Umar (RA) states, "every innovation is misguidance, even if the people regard it as good." (ad-Daarimee)
Reply

YM Usrah Umar
04-29-2011, 10:28 PM
isnt all these bidahs from a wahabi, salaf point of view? i dont kno but does it seem to me that sufis tend to do all of these and say its a weak hadith etc

its only until yestrday i was confused, bcuz i used to say this and that was bidah but i dont hav the knowledge fo sumting to be bidah so why did i say it then? dangerous tho brothers and sisters to say sutn its innovation.

we kno that a hadiths (not all of them) can be either weak or fabricated. again lol is it me or do wahabi's etc jus say a weak hadith is jus fabricated
Reply

Ğħαrєєвαħ
03-20-2012, 12:49 AM
Bump!


.....................
Reply

islamicbanker
09-14-2015, 05:47 PM
Interesting thread to start with but it became heavy later on.

A request to moderators and senior members. Is it possible to provide an updated list of Bidat in a fresh thread with brief references why it is Bidah. or May be, it is better to have a simple list of Bidah with a list of respected scholars at the end as a panel who have confirmed the list.

May Allah keep us away from all kinds of Bidat and give us strength to practice a pure and simple Islam. Ameen.
Reply

Linkdeutscher
12-10-2015, 10:41 PM
EVEN IF the ahadith of Shabaan are authentic, we don't have a single report about the Prophet :saws: or his companions or the salaf celebrating it.
Reply

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