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Tyrion
07-16-2010, 12:39 AM
:sl:

It seems to me that a lot of people don’t give animals much credit when it comes to cognitive abilities, but some new studies are shedding light on animal cognition and showing us that they might be much smarter than we once thought. I recently watched some videos that highlighted some really interesting studies that suggest that animals have far more cognitive abilities than we give them credit for, going so far as to suggest that some animals might be able to understand basic language, have a sense of fairness/morals, possess the ability to make and modify tools, and even the ability to have and show emotion and feelings of attachment when it comes to death. It also raises questions about consciousness/awareness, and whether or not we really are the only thing on earth that possesses it. The gap between humans and animals in terms of cognitive abilities is still huge, but perhaps not as huge as once thought. I found this all incredibly interesting, so I thought I’d share it here. I don’t agree with all of the conclusions some of the scientists have made regarding these insights, and it’s obvious that there are many ways to interpret the data, but it’s all interesting nonetheless. :p

Also, I was also wondering if Islam has a particular stance when it comes to animals and cognition, or whether or not animals can feel/are aware/ etc…? Also, what exactly is the difference between animals and humans according to Islam? Personally, at first I didn’t know what to think about the possibility of animals having fairly advanced levels of thinking… After some studying though, I came to the conclusion that it actually fits rather nicely with Islamic thought. If all animals are supposed to be “Muslim” in the sense that they acknowledge and constantly obey God, then it makes sense that they were have some sort of awareness and consciousness. And it makes sense that of all the creatures on earth, the most intelligent (humans) would be given the most responsibility by God. But yeah, those are just my thoughts. Thanks in advance for any replies :statisfie

(I wanted to post links to the videos I was referring to, but apparently I'm not allowed to... Sorry!)
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marwen
07-16-2010, 09:47 AM
I don't have answers to these questions right now :-\ but this thread is really interesting !

bump ...

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Tyrion
07-24-2010, 08:13 PM
I can finally post links, (Made my 50th post yesterday :)) so I thought I'd post some of the videos I referred to:
Octopus and Coconut
Crow
Chimp Cooperation
Capuchin Cooperation
Dolphins and Language
Chimp Memory Task
Chimps Defend Corpse
Susan Savage-Rumbaugh on apes


Maybe now we can get some comments/discussions started :p
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M.I.A.
07-24-2010, 08:33 PM
animals are also under the control of god, cant remember exactly but was it in the story of kane and abel that a crow was scratching the ground where they buried the body, please correct me if i am mistaken.
also,
allah swt is aware of even a black ant on a black rock in the black night. taken out of context but i would believe its literal and allagorical correctness. cant remember were i heard it though.

as for if animals have cognitive ability i would guess they are quiet clever although we hardly ever get to observe them being clever.
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Woodrow
07-24-2010, 09:36 PM
Animals are remarkable creatures and one of the beauties and joys of creation. Let us not read too much into their cognitive ability though. In spite of their great abilities and sometimes human like qualities, they are not human. Animals do possess a great gift, they are free from sin, but that comes with the fact they do not have free will.

Let us always treat animals with kindness, protect them and appreciate them, but let us not attribute them with abilities they do not have and give them equality to humans. They do have rights and we do have the responsibility to see that their rights at not removed. But these rights are in terms of their well being and freedom from maltreatment.
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Snowflake
07-24-2010, 09:38 PM
If all animals are supposed to be “Muslim” in the sense that they acknowledge and constantly obey God, then it makes sense that they were have some sort of awareness and consciousness.
Very true, and they do have a high level of awareness as the following hadiths and verses show.

In the story of the ant in Surah an Naml. (27:18).. When they approached the valley of the ants, one ant said, "O you ants, go into your homes, lest you get crushed by Solomon and his soldiers, without perceiving."


Allah subhana wa ta 'ala gives commands His creatures to do things:

Also when Qabil killed his brother Habil, Allah SWT sent a crow to show him how to bury his brother's body.
He (the murderer) said: "Woe to me! Am I not even able to be as this crow and to hide the dead body of my brother?" Then he became one of those who regretted. Surah 5:27-31

Almighty Allah recounted: And, verily, Jonah was one of the Messengers. When he ran to the laden ship, he agreed to cast lots and he was among the losers, Then a big fish swallowed him and he had done an act worthy of blame. Had he not been of them who glorify Allah, he would have indeed remained inside its belly (the fish) till the Day of Resurrection. But We cast him forth on the naked shore while he was sick and We caused a plant of gourd to grow over him. And We sent him to a hundred thousand people or even more, and they believed; so We gave them enjoyment for a while. (Ch 37:139-148 Quran).


The Hadith

“If someone kills a sparrow for sport, the sparrow will cry out on the Day of Judgment, “O Lord! That person killed me in vain! He did not kill me for any useful purpose.” Sunnan An Nasai


One of Prophet Muhammad’s companions narrates, “We were on a journey and during the Prophet’s absence, we saw a bird with its two chicks; we took them. The mother bird was circling above us in the air, beating its wings in grief. When Prophet Muhammad returned he said, “Who has hurt the feelings of this bird by taking its chicks? Return them to her.”Ibid


The Prophet(s) forbade all living creatures to be slaughtered while tied up
and bound. (id (Ref. No. 46); Hadith No. 4817; p. 1079).


The Messenger of Allah was heard forbidding to keep waiting a quadruped or any other animal for slaughter. (Bukhari. Also Muslim; Vol. 2, Chapter 11; Section on 'Slaying'; 10:739; verse 152. Also 'Robson' (Ref. NO. 15), p. 872).


The Holy Prophet(s) said to a man who was sharpening his knife in the presence of the animal: 'Do you intend inflicting death on the animal twice - once by sharpening the knife within its sight, and once by cutting its throat?' (Al-Furu Min-al-Kafi Lil-Kulini; 6:230).


Hazrat Imam Ali says: "Do not slaughter sheep in the presence of other sheep, or any animal in the presence of other animals."


During a journey, somebody picked up some birds eggs. The bird's painful note and fluttering attracted the attention of the Prophet (pbuh), who asked the man to replace the eggs (Bukhari, Sahih Bukhari).



A companion came to him with the young ones of a bird in his sheet and said that the mother bird had hovered over them all along. He was directed to replace her offspring in the same bush (Mishkat, Abu Dawud)


The Prophet(s) said: 'Do not clip the forelock of a horse, for a decency (in another version pride) is attached to its forelock; nor its mane, for it protects it; nor its tail, for it is its fly-flap'. (Narrated by 'Utbah ibn Farqad Abu Abdillah al-Sulami. Abu Dawud. Also Awn, 7:216, 217, Hadith No. 2525 (Ref. No. 32)).




All these verses and hadiths show that creatures are not just obedient to Allah's commands, but also that they feel emotions such as pride, shame, hurt, fear and know when they are wronged. They are able to think and anticipate what's coming and make decisions based on their judgment of a situation. SubhanAllah wal hamdulillah wa la ilaha illAllah wallahu akbar!
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Woodrow
07-24-2010, 09:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
Very true, and they do have a high level of awareness as the following hadiths and verses show.

In the story of the ant in Surah an Naml. (27:18).. When they approached the valley of the ants, one ant said, "O you ants, go into your homes, lest you get crushed by Solomon and his soldiers, without perceiving."


Allah subhana wa ta 'ala gives commands His creatures to do things:

Also when Qabil killed his brother Habil, Allah SWT sent a crow to show him how to bury his brother's body.
He (the murderer) said: "Woe to me! Am I not even able to be as this crow and to hide the dead body of my brother?" Then he became one of those who regretted. Surah 5:27-31

Almighty Allah recounted: And, verily, Jonah was one of the Messengers. When he ran to the laden ship, he agreed to cast lots and he was among the losers, Then a big fish swallowed him and he had done an act worthy of blame. Had he not been of them who glorify Allah, he would have indeed remained inside its belly (the fish) till the Day of Resurrection. But We cast him forth on the naked shore while he was sick and We caused a plant of gourd to grow over him. And We sent him to a hundred thousand people or even more, and they believed; so We gave them enjoyment for a while. (Ch 37:139-148 Quran).


The Hadith

“If someone kills a sparrow for sport, the sparrow will cry out on the Day of Judgment, “O Lord! That person killed me in vain! He did not kill me for any useful purpose.” Sunnan An Nasai


One of Prophet Muhammad’s companions narrates, “We were on a journey and during the Prophet’s absence, we saw a bird with its two chicks; we took them. The mother bird was circling above us in the air, beating its wings in grief. When Prophet Muhammad returned he said, “Who has hurt the feelings of this bird by taking its chicks? Return them to her.”Ibid


The Prophet(s) forbade all living creatures to be slaughtered while tied up
and bound. (id (Ref. No. 46); Hadith No. 4817; p. 1079).


The Messenger of Allah was heard forbidding to keep waiting a quadruped or any other animal for slaughter. (Bukhari. Also Muslim; Vol. 2, Chapter 11; Section on 'Slaying'; 10:739; verse 152. Also 'Robson' (Ref. NO. 15), p. 872).


The Holy Prophet(s) said to a man who was sharpening his knife in the presence of the animal: 'Do you intend inflicting death on the animal twice - once by sharpening the knife within its sight, and once by cutting its throat?' (Al-Furu Min-al-Kafi Lil-Kulini; 6:230).


Hazrat Imam Ali says: "Do not slaughter sheep in the presence of other sheep, or any animal in the presence of other animals."


During a journey, somebody picked up some birds eggs. The bird's painful note and fluttering attracted the attention of the Prophet (pbuh), who asked the man to replace the eggs (Bukhari, Sahih Bukhari).



A companion came to him with the young ones of a bird in his sheet and said that the mother bird had hovered over them all along. He was directed to replace her offspring in the same bush (Mishkat, Abu Dawud)


The Prophet(s) said: 'Do not clip the forelock of a horse, for a decency (in another version pride) is attached to its forelock; nor its mane, for it protects it; nor its tail, for it is its fly-flap'. (Narrated by 'Utbah ibn Farqad Abu Abdillah al-Sulami. Abu Dawud. Also Awn, 7:216, 217, Hadith No. 2525 (Ref. No. 32)).




All these verses and hadiths show that creatures are not just obedient to Allah's commands, but also that they feel emotions such as pride, shame, hurt, fear and know when they are wronged. They are able to think and anticipate what's coming and make decisions based on their judgment of a situation. SubhanAllah wal hamdulillah wa la ilaha illAllah wallahu akbar!
:sl:

Which should make us all aware of the great responsibility we have to protect them from mistreatment.
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marwen
07-24-2010, 10:44 PM
Allah Subhanahu Wa Taa'la says in the Qur'an, about people who don't want to think :

1)
وَلَقَدْ ذَرَأْنَا لِجَهَنَّمَ كَثِيراً مِّنَ الْجِنِّ وَالإِنسِ لَهُمْ قُلُوبٌ لاَّ يَفْقَهُونَ بِهَا وَلَهُمْ أَعْيُنٌ لاَّ يُبْصِرُونَ بِهَا وَلَهُمْ آذَانٌ لاَّ يَسْمَعُونَ بِهَا أُوْلَـئِكَ كَالأَنْعَامِ بَلْ هُمْ أَضَلُّ أُوْلَـئِكَ هُمُ الْغَافِلُونَ .......... سورة الأعراف 179

Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning). [Surat Al A'raf(7), ayah 179]

2)
أَمْ تَحْسَبُ أَنَّ أَكْثَرَهُمْ يَسْمَعُونَ أَوْ يَعْقِلُونَ إِنْ هُمْ إِلَّا كَالْأَنْعَامِ بَلْ هُمْ أَضَلُّ سَبِيلاً ...... سورة الفرقان 44

Or thinkest thou that most of them listen or understand? They are only like cattle;- nay, they are worse astray in Path. [Surat Al Furqan(25), ayah 44]


Those people don't want to believe, don't want to listen or to follow guidance, who don't make effort with their minds to make deductions and come out with results helping them to find the truth. Allah is comparing them with animals (cattle), i.e they are only living for their animistic (bodily) needs : all they think about is eating and desires, they follow their instincts. They (those people) don't make higher reflections, and they are not sensible to spiritual meditation.

So my opinion is, with inspiration from the previous verses, that animals have interesting capabilities (intelligence, emotions), but these animal capabilities can't reach human levels. I mean, animals have intelligence, but this intelligence only help them to survive : eating, reproduction, running away from dangers, etc. But this limited intelligence can't let them make higher mental activities like making scientific works or arts or making a civilization or an organized society.

Allah made animals with a limited intelligence levels, so they can't reach a degree close to human intelligence. And that's a blessing and honoring from Allah to the human kind, so we can control animals even if they are stronger than us, and exploit them for our needs : food, transport, work, etc.

Allah knows best.
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