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amin22
07-19-2010, 04:26 AM
[MOUSE][/MOUSE]Assalamou 3alaikoum brothers,

I have been ignoring this fact of the black stone being hold off from any scientific analyse. I agree as a muslim, the balck stone is sacred but there is no valid reason which conduct us to stop scientists get experiments on this stone. It could reveal many things that will make our imaaan stronger, and make other people more curious. All what i believe as what islam teaches us, Science is parallel to what the Quran teaches.

thank you

may allah jami3 lmouslimine
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Woodrow
07-19-2010, 05:18 AM
Originally Posted by amin22
[MOUSE][/MOUSE]Assalamou 3alaikoum brothers,

I have been ignoring this fact of the black stone being hold off from any scientific analyse. I agree as a muslim, the balck stone is sacred but there is no valid reason which conduct us to stop scientists get experiments on this stone. It could reveal many things that will make our imaaan stronger, and make other people more curious. All what i believe as what islam teaches us, Science is parallel to what the Quran teaches.

thank you

may allah jami3 lmouslimine
:sl:

What purpose would be served by analyzing it? From a material aspect we know it is a stone, any analysis would only measure the physical aspect of it and eventually tell us it is a stone. An analysis may tell us the probable location where the stone was formed, but that is a moot point. It may tell us the type of stone it is marble, granite, iron meteorite, sandstone etc, but what difference does that make?

What of any importance could be expected to be found by analysis?
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amin22
07-20-2010, 06:18 AM
The Black stone is supposed to be from Heaven and not from other planets. If we can analyse the black stone why not? It is from heaven which means it has its own specific properties. As described in the Quran, In Heaven, Things are not similar to what is in Earth. So as a muslim, I am sure that analysing the black stone will unravel new details about science and islam. I wonder why it has not been done yet, i wonder if it has been done already by some muslims scientists but what was their finding.
There is no quote from Prophet Mohammed (salla llah 3alayhi wa ssallam) abut not analysing the black stone.
Also, the black stone is not mentioned in the Quran, so why not allowing experiment on a small fragment.
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Ramadhan
07-20-2010, 06:47 AM
Originally Posted by amin22
The Black stone is supposed to be from Heaven and not from other planets. If we can analyse the black stone why not? It is from heaven which means it has its own specific properties. As described in the Quran, In Heaven, Things are not similar to what is in Earth. So as a muslim, I am sure that analysing the black stone will unravel new details about science and islam. I wonder why it has not been done yet, i wonder if it has been done already by some muslims scientists but what was their finding.
There is no quote from Prophet Mohammed (salla llah 3alayhi wa ssallam) abut not analysing the black stone.
Also, the black stone is not mentioned in the Quran, so why not allowing experiment on a small fragment.
Have you been to heaven? how do you know the black stones must posses certain properties?

And anyway, how can us with our limited brains ascertain that things from heaven must attain their heavenly properties once they are sent to earth?

Prophet Adam a.s. and Siti Hawa a.s. were created and dwelled in heaven, and then they were sent to earth.
Did they attain their heavenly characteristics or were their characteristics changed by Allah SWT to suit living on earth?

As brother woodrow has mentioned, i see no wisdom whatsoever in conducting analyses of the black stones.

As Umar r.a. said about the black stones "you are just stones and nothing more, and I only kiss you because I saw Rasulullah SAW did it"
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Alpha Dude
07-20-2010, 09:15 AM
I have been ignoring this fact of the black stone being hold off from any scientific analyse. I agree as a muslim, the balck stone is sacred but there is no valid reason which conduct us to stop scientists get experiments on this stone. It could reveal many things that will make our imaaan stronger, and make other people more curious. All what i believe as what islam teaches us, Science is parallel to what the Quran teaches.
If someone needs their iman getting stronger after seeing certain 'proofs' (other than what our Prophet peace be upon him came with) then something is not right. Recall that after the sun rises from the West, our repentance will not be accepted. This means obviously that there must be some significance to keeping hold of faith despite not having such direct proofs.

Anyway, you've answered your own question. It is a sacred rock. Not a tool for some science experiment.

The bodies of Prophets do not decay. Will you suggest we dig up the grave of RasulAllah Sallahu Alaihe Wassalam to see if that is indeed the case? Something like that would definitely strengthen our iman, right? :)
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S_87
07-20-2010, 11:03 AM
part of our belief is belief in the unseen. analyzing it wont tell us much. First off, what are we looking for? proof? proof of what?
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amin22
07-22-2010, 06:31 PM
We can analyse it and see by chance it gives some new discoveries. If not, we should remain faithful to the unseen al kadaa wa lkadar. However, we are stopping that for happening. We are capable now today in this time to see if this stone has some specific properties. If not, it is fine it is not going to change my faith or yours. If it does change our faith, it mean our imaan is not that strong. I am talking about a scientific purpose. Islam does not want to shut down science. Allah advice to use science and give up when science cannot do anything anymore. That is what I believe, that is what i will always believe.
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Alpha Dude
07-22-2010, 09:30 PM
Originally Posted by amin22
I am talking about a scientific purpose. Islam does not want to shut down science. Allah advice to use science and give up when science cannot do anything anymore. That is what I believe, that is what i will always believe.
Sorry bro, but any quest for 'scientific progress' when it comes to disrespecting the sacred is useless.

You did not answer my question about the bodies of prophets and them not decaying.

Perhaps for the sake of betterment of society scientists should be allowed to take samples from the body of RasulAllahu Sallalahu Alaihe Wasalam? You know, so that they would be able to reproduce the effect of non-decay in other bodies or limit aging for living people? Would you argue for that also?

That is what I believe, that is what i will always believe.
And with all due respect, what you say here indicates arrogance. If one day what you believe is proven to be incorrect, you should accept and take it as a lesson. Don't let ego blind you.
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cat eyes
07-23-2010, 06:28 PM
well maybe travel the world and see can u find a stone like it ?? i don't need prove. the fact that the prophet (saw) said its from jannah its enough for me to believe and should be enough for every other muslim too
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amin22
07-24-2010, 06:04 AM
To Alpha Dude,
I appologize for not having answered your point about Prophet Mohammad(Pbuh). Here is my response.
As a muslim, i have a lot of respect of Prophet Mohammad(Pbuh), therefore, digging up hand take samples from his body would be a unrespectful action. However, If our prophet had allowed it, we would have done it. About the sacred stone, May Allah forgive me if i am mistaken, neither the Quran or Sunnah talks about forbidding to analyse the black stone. Another thing about Imaaane, my imaane is as where it is as allahe wants me. However my brother, there is no muslim possessing a perfect imaane. we continually seek imaaane from Allah. Don'tyou agree? Let me tell you that the root of fundamentalism, extremism, terrorism is the lack of science and this idea that we are afraid from science, is what let people get the wrong ideas. Muslims should not be afraid of Science as Christians used to be. Islam is the true religion, and science will be here to confirm it. I will telll you another thing, There many things in the Quran that still are not understood completely because we are still unable to do so. Knowledge of our religion and what is around us is nescessary. Today, many who converted to Islam were scientists however, I am not saying that anaalysing the black stone will bring more imaane or converted people, but it will say that islam and science are going together. Please stop this dogmatism. Islam is not Phislosophy. It is a way of life.
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Woodrow
07-24-2010, 07:27 AM
I think a point to consider is to remember that all that remains of the black stone are several fragments held together by a silver wire and embedded in the wall for protection. Any attempt to gather a specimen could easily damage beyond repair what remains of what was once the alter used by Prophets Adam and Ibrahim (PBUT). A high risk to satisfy idle curiosity.

Any analysis still would not be proof of anything. No matter what the result as some detractor would only raise the question of how do we know all of the fragments came from the alter and this would result in desire to examine each fragment. The results of such analysis still would not prove a thing. We know it is a rock, it will test to be a rock no matter what it's origin. Even coming from heaven it would still have to be physical matter that follows the same laws of physics all matter on earth follows. Nobody has ever asserted any magical or supernatural qualities to the stone it has always been a stone. While it is a stone sacred to us, it is still a stone and only it's recognition and usage as an alter given by Allaah(swt) makes it sacred to us.
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RockDude
07-24-2010, 01:46 PM
I am not a leader or Imam or any other scholar, but answer my one question. Just becasue Islam dosn't say anything about a certain item or topic, does not allow us to make judgements. By the same argument, you could say, " Islam dosn't say anything about allowing scientfic analysis, so we shouldn't do it," which is exactly how you have come to this conclusion, which to me would suggest itis more for your own curiosty.
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Danah
07-24-2010, 02:50 PM
Umar bin Al-khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) said about the black stone: "by Allah I know that you are a stone that can neither benefit nor harm, and if I didn't see the prophet kiss you I would never kiss you"

So it's a stone that can do nothing for us!
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