Assalam O Alikum wa rahmatul lahi wa barakatuhu,
Yes shouting kuffar kuffar is not from the ikhlaaq of the muslim , but yes a kafir is a kafir so its not like u cant say sucha person is a kafir.
But the biggest probelm is Muslims calling others Kafir , which is know as Takfeer , which i think we should all stay away from and be very careful in this matter.
The shouting of youth and hizbee partsisan and takfeeris groups against the rulers , the scholars , and muslims is a calamity , it has brought notthing but trouble and destuction to the muslim lands and its effects are not limited to muslim lands but even non muslim lands.
The probelm is that people have taken matters into tehir own hands , all the need is a "scholar" to claim such and such governemt of a muslim country is kafir and its permissible to kill them and anyone dealing with teh government , the revolutions , the revolts , te khurooj , the kidnappings the bombings the destruction and bloodshell n murder all stars with takfeer and teh ignorance of todays takfeeris , may Allah save us and our youth from it and from them.
But there are some thinsg i would like to breifly touch on regarding brother zafran's post , since he has taken the opportunity to speak about a matter that indeed is present in the ummah.
Originally Posted by Zafran
There is a difference between some one calling some one kafir or kuffar! and some one saying such and such group is involved in Shirk.
Shirk can be Minor , Major or even Khafee as teh Prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam informed us ina hadeeth that He feared Shirk al khafee onhis Ummah more than the Fithnah of dajjal and when asked what was shirk al khafee he sala lahu alihi wa sallam replied wen a person prays and sees some one looking at him so he beautifies his prayer, meaning Showing off and riyaa!
So shirk be it major , minor or khafee it is HUGE , its is something that NO DEED IN YOUR SCALE WILL BE ABLE TO OUT-WEIGH!
So yes brother zafran , u might be reffering to some sects calling other sects kuffar! or mushrik! or shirki!
But like i said earlier , w must first see what the matter with that sect is
Is it Kufr? Is it shirk? if its shirk is it minor or major? or is it Bidah? Innovation?
what u took the opportunity to talk about probably is the People of sunnah calling people of bidah mushriks and not kafirs (I have never heared any scholar do takfeer of brelvis or any other sufi sect) but yes they do do tabdee of them i-e Call them innovators( with proof offcourse) or Prove with Islamic texts that such and such sect has matters that constitue shirk in its difrenet forms.
Here also i will say that Its not the way of the people of Sunnah to just call out MUSHRIK , SHIRK SHIRK , SHIRKI, BIDDATI , this way no one will ever listen to you nor wil you benefit any one rather it will only bring about more enemosity and hatered and drive people away from you , so here i agree that this is a very ignorant way of CORRECTING others , rather a muslim should give Good advise , naseehah , with proof , with wisdom , with knowledge and evidence and whomever Allah wants to guide Shall e guided.
But now my brother that No one calls others , 1- Innovators! 2- Mushriks , 3- Shirki or shirk without evidence so one should rather look at the evidence and proof and decide and its not enough to say Allah knows whats in the hearts , No akhee when WORST FORMS OF KUFR and SHIRK is uttered from some ones mouth , or recorded in his books then it no longer remains someting in the heart and an intention , rather its common knowledge.
Also it is not fair or safe to say , Allah will judge between us in here after , u know why? Coz lets ASSUME u rellay were upon something that constitues shirk , be it words , qalam , or actions Amal or deeds or beliefs in your heart , So on that Day if u met Allah with those words and statements , those beliefs ,and those actions than it will be TOO LATE , the correction has to be done in this word before death comes to us , we canot say Oh u dont know whats in our hearts , Oh Allah knows who is right and who is wrong!! Yes Indeed Alla knows whats right and whats wrong but DIDNT ALLAH INFORM US!!
DIDNT HE SEND A MESSENGER AND A BOOK?
DIDNT THE MESSENGER SALA LAHU ALIHI WA SALLAM AND HIS COMPANIONS SET PERFECT EXAMPLES IN ALLL THE MATERS OF OUR DEEN?
DIDNT THEY DELIVER THE AMANAH! DIDNT THEY PASS ON THE DEEN TO NEXT GENERATIONS AND EVENTUALLY TO US?
So bro who is right and what is right can only be decided be reffering back to Allah and his messenger and the sahaba n tabieen n those who followed them and the great Imams , the People of hadeetha nd sunnah , the people of narration n isnaad who throughout the eras protected the deen for us.
Imam shafi ithink or malik said " Angels are the protectors of the heaven and People of hadeeth are the protectors of the earth!"
Such a strong statement,
SO this leaves n room to say Allah knows what righta nd whose right, and Allah will judge between us in hereafter coz Akhee al azeez it will be toooo late then if one was not corrected and he did not repent before his death.
The type of people u reffer to as calling others KAFIR anf Kuffar as i have seen are the sufis n brelvis , they call the deo bandis kafir all the time and on top of their lungs , i have never seen such behavior from people of sunnah.
People of sunnah do correct the brelvis etc by refuting n all , and yes they call them bidati innovators and mushriks coz of what they are upon and with knowledge and proof, but i still say if they took the path of mercy and affection and wisdom and kind words and gentlness and good advice it woudl have been better.
And back to your post akhee, If people of sunnah like salafis n "wahhabis" do call some sufi sects Innovators and that they have elements of Shirk in them do u think they say that out of their desires?
What do u call some one who makes tawaf of a grave? Asking the one in the grave DIRECTLY for help!
now here people come and start shouthing tawasul tawasul tawasul , well its not tawasul when u say , Dey Data! GIVE DATA! NOPE , tawasul would sound like Oh ALLAH i ask u to give me for the sake of this righetous servant of yours. This is how tawasul sounds
It will not sound like Ya rasool Alah madad! Oh messenger of ALLAH HELP!!!
if it was tawasul it would sound like OH ALLAH i ask u to help me for the sake of the Prophet ,
it will not sound like YA ghouse Maddad! Oh ghouse (Abdul qadir jeelani help!) it would sound like OH ALLAH i ask u for the sake of abdul qadir!
Whenever some one says ya rasool Allah help , ya ghouse help , its SHIRK! ur asking them not Allah and even if u were making them a waseelah it will still be wrong and non-islamic
there are only three type of permissbile tawasuls n waseelah
1- Call upon Allah with his asmaa al husna(Most beautiful names)
2- Call upon Allah by YOUR good deeds that u did for His sake alone!(Hadeeth of the three trapped in cave)
3- Ask a living righteous person to make dua for u , making his ur waseelah coz u expect himto be pious n all.
there is no fourth to that,coz there is no evidence for no fourth type of waseelah.
That would be tawasul , waseelah , WHICH ALSO WOULD BE WRONG COZ ALLAH , HIS PROPHET AND THE BEST GENERATIONS AFATERWARDS DID NOT DO THAT , they did not understand the texts in the way some understand it , Its not THEIR understanding , its not their way , they heared those ayaat n ahadeeth , they were te best who acted upon everything the heared YET they never did any such things , nor did they celebrate fsetivals on graves and THEY HAD THE BEST GRAVES IN THE WORLD , THE PROPHETS AND HIS COMPANIONS graves!
So Always look at it this way , Are u upon what THEY were upon? Is ur understanding of the deen like theirs?
coz know my brother the deen is ALL about understanding , WHOSE UNDERSTANDING, The prophets? companions' , teh best three generations? Or is it some one who came way after them , Know that they were More knowledgable of the deen teh religion than ALL that came after them.
So always follow the understanding of the prophet and his companions and the pious precedors.
So bro they might scream shirk n innovation! n mushrik for what they see and what they hear not what they feel is inside their hearts , no your actios tell what u are doing so do your words and so do your books and u can see clearly the examples of SHIRK , INNOOVATION AND EVEN KUFR in the books of some sufi sects.
So the accusiation is not based on what we THINK is inside their chests akhee , rather its what they call towards and what they write and say and do.
So do u agree with the festivals on the graves where ALL that the Prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam FORBADE becomes premissible.
SILK FOR MEN , THAT ARE DANCING!
MIXING OF MEN N WOMEN
MUSIC IN ALL ITS VARIETIS
CALLING OTHER THAN ALLAH AND ASKING FROM OTHER THAN ALLAH!
This all ranges bewteen sin t oinnovation ,to shirk to kufr , so all this is clearly present amongs the sufis who are rightly accused of shirk and innovationa nd even kufr coz its evident.
So what about the tawaf of graves n even places where Pious people used to sit?
What about the festivals on graves and calling dead people for help,hence commiting shirk n kufr by callin upon other than all
(This shirk is worst than the arab pagans coz n difficulties they used to call upon ALLAH alone,unlike the mushriks of our time,they cal upon ghouse)
What about the taweezs n what about tying knots on trees n shrines( Its worship of tress ns tones)
What about calling upon other than Allah
WHAT ABOUT GIVING SOME OF THE ATTRIBUTES OF ALLAH TO HIS CREATION
BE IT A PROPHET
OR AN ANGEL
OR A TREE OR A STONE!?
WHAT ABOUT IT ? its not shirk?
Know that whenever u give some siffat attribute of Allah to ANYONE OR ANYTHING u have joined a partner with Allah.
So what about the claims that the prohet sala lahu alihi wa sallam is everywhere n all knowing alll seeing?
what about the calim of him knwoing the unseen
what bout the claim of him being noor?
how about the milion deviations from quran n sunnah that the next person is upon , u want us to stay quiet and wait till day of ressurectin and let Allah decide and judge?
what about when shahbaz qaladanr seats tawaf is done and there is a small Jhoola a swing on it that u have to swing n oh dont forget to put somemoney in it as well and make a dua? wha about jhoolay lal written on your truck or bus even in dubai!
what about 786
what about taking some one above his rank like the christians did with jesus!? wasnt that shirk!
what about the claims that the prophet is amongst us and he vsists us when we do zikr n Allah Hu!
come on akhee , no one calls other mushrks , or screams shirk for no reason , know that walaa and baraa is for Allah , Love and hate is for the sake of Allah and the people of sunnah are out there to correct , yes some might have taken the wrong way of doing so but regardless why dont u give them the benefit of the doubt tha tthey ar eup to their noses and they ahve had enough and they are going crazy watching the ummah drown in the sea of innovation n shirk.
I would sugest u read, akhee i said it before , the fist word revelaved to the prophet sal lahu alihi wa sallam was IQRA!
read what is tawheed , what constitues tawheed , what are its types and categories and requirmenst , what constitues shirk , what are its types , what opposes tawheed , what is bidah , what are its types , what are its effects and results.
Read and u wil realise that the shirk of the "muslim ummah" is worst than the shirk of arab pagans of makkah!
Read the like sof kitaab at tawheed , Al qawaaid al arbaa , Al usuool al sittah , books on tahweed n shirk n what opposes tawheed.
Stop following those who claim taht who ever says laa laaha illa lah cannot commit shirk or kufr , tawheed is a vast subject that we need to undersatdn first n foremost. those who claim a muslim cannot commit shirk n yet in their poems say WORST FORMS of shirk n KUFR and yet stay muslims? i cannot even write those ugly examples that the books of sufi sects like brelvis are filled with.
may Allah guide us to tawheed n sunnah and the way and understanding of the prophet n sahaba n sala us saalih walahul Muwafiq.