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Darth Ultor
07-31-2010, 09:33 PM
After hearing of several incidents of neglect, murder, and abuse that occur within families on the news, I begin to ask myself, is everyone qualified to be a parent? You need a license to drive a car or carry a gun, a child is a much heavier responsibility than driving or owning a firearm. Will the child be given the proper combination of love, education, and discipline so that he and she may stand on their own two feet one day? Will they grow up in a proper environment? Are both parents mentally, physically, and emotionally capable of raising a child? Apparently, from what hear on the news, not everyone is qualified to be a parent. Yes, it is our God-given right to have children, but take into account that any fool can make a baby, but it takes a real man or woman to raise a child. I personally think that prospective parents should go through certain testings before they decide to have a baby.
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nousername
07-31-2010, 09:38 PM
we'll end up like China then, with a one child policy or similar. the results are disastrous. and what about that who become pregnant but didn't plan to? It's a little too late than, unless you want to snatch the child away. But on the other hand, their are a lot of loser parents who don't care one bit about their kids, and mess them up for life.
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marwen
07-31-2010, 09:45 PM
And when you hang out with your kid, an officer stops you and tell you : "License and Registration Please !" ;D

But yes, I find this idea very interesting. And probably could prevent many problems as you said.
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Alpha Dude
07-31-2010, 09:47 PM
I have often wondered the same thing after hearing all the bad stuff.

format_quote Originally Posted by marwen
And when you hang out with your kid, an officer stops you and tell you : "License and Registration Please !"
LOL hahaha! ;D
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
07-31-2010, 09:48 PM
Aslaamu`Alaaykum

SubhaanAllaah thats true

If a Wife and Husband wish to raise a child ,they must first prepare themselve beforEhand. Theres a lot of irresponsiblity in the world today unfortunately, today kids are raised in ways that leads them to do what so ever they wish and thinking they have become successful by getting what they want esp in the Western world its horrible and terrifying. Kids arent kids no more, some are becoming scarier day by day e.g. knife crime, stealing, bullying etc etc.

Its the parents job to raise the child to respect themself and to respect others around them, and to be disciplined! And use physical abuse as an excuse if the kid does something really wrong or even little wrong, they should be teaching kids manners and much more anyway thats just my personal opinion and sorry if i went off topic.

Wa`Alaaykum Salaam
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Darth Ultor
07-31-2010, 09:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by мυѕℓιмαн 4 ℓιfє
Aslaamu`Alaaykum

SubhaanAllaah thats true

If a Wife and Husband wish to raise a child ,they must first prepare themselve beforEhand. Theres a lot of irresponsiblity in the world today unfortunately, today kids are raised in ways that leads them to do what so ever they wish and thinking they have become successful by getting what they want esp in the Western world its horrible and terrifying. Kids arent kids no more, some are becoming scarier day by day e.g. knife crime, stealing, bullying etc etc.

Its the parents job to raise the child to respect themself and to respect others around them, and to be disciplined! And use physical abuse as an excuse if the kid does something really wrong or even little wrong, they should be teaching kids manners and much more anyway thats just my personal opinion and sorry if i went off topic.

Wa`Alaaykum Salaam
Spare the rod, spoil the child. But there is a fine line between discipline and abuse.
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Rhubarb Tart
07-31-2010, 09:53 PM
Do you want any country to have this issue :
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/d...-22/episode-1/
More than a decade after producing The Dying Rooms - a powerful film about the neglect of abandoned babies in Chinese orphanages - the same award-winning team returns to a very different China, where the infamous One Child Policy has created the horrific side-effect of a boom in stolen children.

It is estimated that 70,000 children are kidnapped in China every year and traded on the black market. This special Dispatches programme features extraordinary access to those directly involved, including devastated parents desperately searching for their stolen son, a man who brokers the deals and has sold his own offspring, and prospective parents grappling with giving up their soon-to-be-born daughter.

Beautiful, haunting and deeply tragic, this film takes us into the heart of modern China - a place where girl babies are being sold for as little as £200, detectives specialise in finding kidnapped children and child traffickers buy and sell human lives. The film provides an intimate portrait of the crisis that this stringent government policy has created among China's poorest people.
And if we were to "license" it then how would you monitor it? And how would you decide who is a fit parent or not? How does a fit parent look and act like? Do they have to be poor and living in small flat to be a "unfit" parents. Every child is different thus a every method and parent would be different. How can you set a Criteria if every child is different?
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Rhubarb Tart
07-31-2010, 09:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Spare the rod, spoil the child. But there is a fine line between discipline and abuse.
I completely agree. I dont agree with parent that beat the hell out of their children.
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Re.TiReD
07-31-2010, 09:59 PM
AssalamuAlaykum

I dunno....I voted no. I mean, Allah intended for it to be that way, its natural, get married, have children, sometimes its not something you actually decide. When you're younger you think nah kids are not worth the hassle, but right up until you hold your own in your arms, you have no idea of the power of the rahmah that Allah (swt) places in the hearts of parents. Same way, you dont know how good a parent somebody will be unless you see them with their own children. I just think individuals with mental problems and known problems should be monitored etc but otherwise, no...We shouldnt need a license to be parents. Maybe individuals living in deprived areas could have parenting classes or courses available to them, kinda like making the best of a bad environment but thats all.

edit: oh I thought you were talking about parents being abusive etc thats what I was talking about re: mental problems.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
07-31-2010, 09:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Spare the rod, spoil the child. But there is a fine line between discipline and abuse.
Yes i agree, but what i meant was "some" people use physical abuse to sort the situation between their child, not that i agree with beating the child!
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
07-31-2010, 10:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hafsah
AssalamuAlaykum

I dunno....I voted no. I mean, Allah intended for it to be that way, its natural, get married, have children, sometimes its not something you actually decide. When you're younger you think nah kids are not worth the hassle, but right up until you hold your own in your arms, you have no idea of the power of the rahmah that Allah (swt) places in the hearts of parents. Same way, you dont know how good a parent somebody will be unless you see them with their own children. I just think individuals with mental problems and known problems should be monitored etc but otherwise, no...We shouldnt need a license to be parents. Maybe individuals living in deprived areas could have parenting classes or courses available to them, kinda like making the best of a bad environment but thats all.

edit: oh I thought you were talking about parents being abusive etc thats what I was talking about re: mental problems.
I agree. . . .
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Rhubarb Tart
07-31-2010, 10:02 PM
Hey sister Hafsah

Can i ask a question.. what makes you think a parent in a poor area would more of a bad parent than someone living in a rich area. Are you talking about in term of feeding and clothing them or in general (feeding, clothing, emotional support, social support etc). Because you mentioned parenting classes, do you think a rich parent doesnt need parenting class?
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Alpha Dude
07-31-2010, 10:11 PM
This isn't really an idea that can seriously be entertained, of course. It's too impractical, for many reasons including the ones sweet106 points out.

Also, if Allah has told us to have many kids to increase the size of the ummah, then having this license thing is obviously going to be a barrier (and a bidah, ergo haram I would guess).

However, for muslims at least, we have laws/fiqh set out for everything we do so the least that can be done is that people know the fiqh of marriage and the rights of each party in a family that must be fulfilled.

At the end of the day, we plan and Allah plans. Sometimes Allah will place children in tough situations to test and strengthen them for later in life, regardless of how much planning against it that we do. Not to say we don't try to eliminate such things, just pointing out that there's divine wisdom behind everything.

The whole parenting license thing is just a rant on my part against all the parents out there who do incomprehensible and stupid things.
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Re.TiReD
07-31-2010, 10:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Hey sister Hafsah

Can i ask a question.. what makes you think a parent in a poor area would more of a bad parent than something living in a rich area. Are you talking about in term of feeding and clothing them or in general (feeding, clothing, emotional support, social support etc). Because you mentioned parenting classes, do you think a rich parent doesnt need parenting class?
Sister, I skim-read the previous posts and picked up on terms such as education, proper environment and knife crime. Lack of a good education, an 'unproper' environment, for lack of a better word and knife-crime are all things I'd associate with individuals living in deprived areas, hence the 'making the best of a bad environment' comment.

edit: so yes these people would need parenting classes to help them make the best of the situation and environments they're in. I'd assume rich families with could do with the same too Allahu A'lam.
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Alpha Dude
07-31-2010, 10:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Hey sister Hafsah

Can i ask a question.. what makes you think a parent in a poor area would more of a bad parent than something living in a rich area. Are you talking about in term of feeding and clothing them or in general (feeding, clothing, emotional support, social support etc). Because you mentioned parenting classes, do you think a rich parent doesnt need parenting class?
Lol. I would say the super rich are the ones more in need of lessons. They're far more likely to spoil their kids rotten and leave them with pampered, entitlement attitudes.

At least poor people keep it real. Generalisng, I know but it's an observation I've made.
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Rhubarb Tart
07-31-2010, 10:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hafsah
Sister, I skim-read the previous posts and picked up on terms such as education, proper environment and knife crime. Lack of a good education, an 'unproper' environment, for lack of a better word and knife-crime are all things I'd associate with individuals living in deprived areas, hence the 'making the best of a bad environment' comment.
Thanks for the explaining it.
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Danah
07-31-2010, 10:18 PM
I think in such time where people think that kids mean only food, school and clothes its a big YES!

Its sad when the victims are those poor kids who don't get a proper upbringing in all life perspectives because of ignorant parents
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Rhubarb Tart
07-31-2010, 10:22 PM
I know plenty of smart beautiful children in the poor environment describe above. Sometimes these children are being brought up with single mother or even both parent that work for them. She or both parents doesnt always have time so the children are left with the people around them. That is why you see so many consider their gang as "family". I also know some of these children that leave the gang because they managed to recieve help elsewhere like youth club or organisations.
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Re.TiReD
07-31-2010, 10:24 PM
lol I'm not a parent so feel free to correct me but I've been taught that foundations matter, so an average/rich kid vs a poor kid, lets assume correct morals are instilled in childhood, the poor kid is brought up seeing hearing about knife crime drugs and street fights, rich/average kid brough up in an okayish environment, public school, maybe private? Both sets of parents are totally useless, you'd hope that rich kid would have a better shot at life right? His upbrining has been a little more civilised than the poor kids and you never know he may just get a decent job if he doesnt end up dropping college, poor kid, he may just get through, but with the environment he grew up in he might just get pulled into a gang and spend his nights in prison. Now if the poor kids parents had classes, not necassarily parenting ones but ones to help them through and to tackle knife crime, gangster mentalities and other things you get in deprived areas, maybe he ould have been better off too?

I dont know this is a gross generalisation too feel free to correct me, I'm sure the super rich have spent many a night in a prison cell before their rich parents come to bail em out, but still. Dont know where I'm going with this so yeh.
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Asiyah3
07-31-2010, 10:27 PM
I think some parents definitely need a parenting education. Albeit as the Prophet SAAS said in a hadeeth “What can I do for you if Allaah has removed mercy from your heart?” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (5652).

Your proposition may be useful for some parents, however, in practice it's nearly impossible to implement fairly and justly.
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Rhubarb Tart
07-31-2010, 10:34 PM
rich children dont necessarily grow up normal. The ego due their parent also mean they too fail at school, cant hold a job etc. Not because they are not educated because they dont know how to get along with people which is to me personally the esstential thing every human being should know.

If you cant get a long with people, you will find it extremely difficult to get through schools, college, university (if they make it that far) and to find a job and then continue with the job. Sometimes these rich kids can’t even get a job because they did not recieve their education and they cant get on with people. They end up being dependent on their parent and sometimes the parent cant no longer afford to look after them. Also, they wont make any true friendship, they probably be around people that will use them. Imagine the psychological damage they may have and they would useless member of society tbh.
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Alpha Dude
07-31-2010, 10:35 PM
Hafsah, I think that's just over philosophising. We can't really know so no need to indulge in hypotheticals.

Allah can guide the most misguided of persons and that's what matters, our guidance. We need to accept that ultimately this life is not the end goal and Allah will give us experiences to test us, despite them not being to our liking. Success in this life is irrelevant. So a poor kid that eventually ends up for life in prison due to his misdeeds and within prison walls gains guidance is infinitely better than a rich kid that has a good life, maybe even good ethics but is himself an atheist.
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Re.TiReD
07-31-2010, 10:37 PM
Basically you can be d***ed either way, rich or poor :p

And finally, in answer to the original question (:p) no, one should not have a license in order for one to become a parent.

Wassalam.

edit: yeh I know, I just love 'indulging in hypotheticals' though :p coz we're never gonna need a license to be parents anyway so its all hypothetical =D
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Woodrow
07-31-2010, 11:36 PM
A license is not needed. What is needed is getting big government out of the family and allow the family to return to serving their religion not the mysterious unseen "government". Once that is done enforce all child abuse and child neglect laws fully with zero tolerance and fully implimented.

There then will be no need to force anybody to take parenting classes, they will want to take them, to be certain they do not accidently violate any of the neglect and abuse laws.

Ultimate option, nuke everybody and give up on the human race.

There is no excuse for child abuse except insanity and in that case the offender should be put out of his misery. I will agree that a child abuser is sick, but so is a rabid dog and I have no qualms over shooting a rabid dog.

Before the world jumps up and down and says I am speaking too harshly. I agree I am.

But, I worked too long in the past with child abusers and honestly believe they need to be removed from society. Execution may be a touch too extreme. But it is effective.

OK, I would settle for life confinment as long as it can be assured the perpetrator could never be set free.
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Salahudeen
08-01-2010, 12:12 AM
^ I agree with woodrow, also I think relationships that are conducted outside of marriage where there isn't a proper family environment and family stability contributes to the overall downfall of society. I think maybe a law that children aren't allowed out of wedlock might be productive. I mean you have 13 year old girls getting pregnant, who then have some crucial decisions to make in life and they're obviously not ready to make them.

The legal age for sex is 18 but how often to people abide by this? lol then you get teenage mothers walking round with prams after school lol. A young mother is still being raised herself she's not in a position to raise children.
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Ummu Sufyaan
08-01-2010, 06:08 AM
-no. and even if there was a license, then what are the conditions to that license? who and what sets the rules? where does it begin, where does it end?

-i don't know about the potential affects of not being a father will have on males, but depriving women of having children is really a bad idea. a really really bad one. what would the affects be of giving parents a license, to be parents, have on women who want children? and even more women that that feel are capable of parenthood (and indeed are capable of it), but due to of this license issue, maybe deprived of that? would depriving women of cause depression and the likes?

having said that though, advising parents if they do wrong by their child is a good idea as well as children services (and counseling for the parents) in cases where the parents are violent etc, shouldn't be down played.
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Karl
08-01-2010, 09:20 AM
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!:raging: And I am appalled and astonished to see some Muslims actually support these outrageous ideas of the kafir socialist state worshippers. What else are you advocating?? A licence to BREATH next is it? It is no one's business to dictate to parents if they are "allowed" to have offspring or not. The AUDACITY of it! That prerogative should be 100% down to the parents themselves. "Parent licences" are nothing more than a product of socialism gone insane, another true illustration of Orwellian mentality. And lastly but not least importantly, parenting licences are completely ANTI Islamic and no genuine Muslim could possibly support it. Such a tyranical law is in the realm of the atheist Marxist kafirs, NOT of Islam.

Also, enacting such a law would be next to completely futile in enforcing anyway. First it would be horrendously expensive to enforce, and any such parents such as myself who would rancourously defy it to the bitter end would simply hide all knowledge of the our offspring from the state ANYWAY. So the fascist idea would be a complete waste of time because all that will happen will be a new trend emerging in which mothers absolutely intent on being parents will have their offspring in SECRET.
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أحمد
08-01-2010, 09:52 AM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
A license is not needed. What is needed is getting big government out of the family and allow the family to return to serving their religion not the mysterious unseen "government". Once that is done enforce all child abuse and child neglect laws fully with zero tolerance and fully implimented.

There then will be no need to force anybody to take parenting classes, they will want to take them, to be certain they do not accidently violate any of the neglect and abuse laws.

Ultimate option, nuke everybody and give up on the human race.

There is no excuse for child abuse except insanity and in that case the offender should be put out of his misery. I will agree that a child abuser is sick, but so is a rabid dog and I have no qualms over shooting a rabid dog.

Before the world jumps up and down and says I am speaking too harshly. I agree I am.

But, I worked too long in the past with child abusers and honestly believe they need to be removed from society. Execution may be a touch too extreme. But it is effective.

OK, I would settle for life confinment as long as it can be assured the perpetrator could never be set free.
I don't think you're being too harsh, but it may not apply in all cases; some abusers maybe suffering from certain mental disorders, which would be better treated medically, rather than direct punishment.

:wa:
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sister herb
08-01-2010, 10:20 AM
Salam alaykum

I voted no but we have mother test:

I [a mother] was out walking with my 3-year-old daughter. She picked
up something off of the ground and started to put it in her mouth. I
took the item away from her, and I asked her not to do that.

"'Why?" my daughter asked.

"Because it's been on the ground: You don't know where it's been; it's
dirty and probably has germs," I replied.

At this point, my daughter looked at me with total admiration and
asked, "Mama, how do you know all this stuff? You are so smart."

I thought quickly, then answered: "All moms know this stuff. It's on
the Mama Test. You have to know it, or they won't let you be a mama."

We walked along in silence for 2 or 3 minutes, but she was evidently
pondering this new information.

"Oh. . .I get it!" she beamed, "So if you don't pass the test, you have
to be the dad."

"Exactly," I replied with a big smile on my face.
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marwen
08-01-2010, 11:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
"Oh. . .I get it!" she beamed, "So if you don't pass the test, you have
to be the dad."
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL ;D;D;D
Hey ! wait ! what is that supposed to mean ? <_<
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sister herb
08-01-2010, 11:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by marwen

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL ;D;D;D
Hey ! wait ! what is that supposed to mean ? <_<
:embarrass

I knew it wasn´t kind for brothers...
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marwen
08-01-2010, 11:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
:embarrass

I knew it wasn´t kind for brothers...
No, it was just funny :D I was just kidding. :p
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sister herb
08-01-2010, 12:05 PM
Salam alaykum

maybe here is the Dad Test too.

:statisfie
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Darth Ultor
08-01-2010, 12:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Karl
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!:raging: And I am appalled and astonished to see some Muslims actually support these outrageous ideas of the kafir socialist state worshippers. What else are you advocating?? A licence to BREATH next is it? It is no one's business to dictate to parents if they are "allowed" to have offspring or not. The AUDACITY of it! That prerogative should be 100% down to the parents themselves. "Parent licences" are nothing more than a product of socialism gone insane, another true illustration of Orwellian mentality. And lastly but not least importantly, parenting licences are completely ANTI Islamic and no genuine Muslim could possibly support it. Such a tyranical law is in the realm of the atheist Marxist kafirs, NOT of Islam.

Also, enacting such a law would be next to completely futile in enforcing anyway. First it would be horrendously expensive to enforce, and any such parents such as myself who would rancourously defy it to the bitter end would simply hide all knowledge of the our offspring from the state ANYWAY. So the fascist idea would be a complete waste of time because all that will happen will be a new trend emerging in which mothers absolutely intent on being parents will have their offspring in SECRET.
Did you read the original post? Before you start accusing people of being kafirs, consider what many parents have (or haven't) done in the last thirty or so years. Some people should not be allowed to have children.
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Karl
08-01-2010, 12:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Did you read the original post? Before you start accusing people of being kafirs, consider what many parents have (or haven't) done in the last thirty or so years. Some people should not be allowed to have children.
Says WHO exactly? You? Your arrogant selfrighteous authoritarian Marxist friends? Just who died and made YOU God? Well for your information I don't take kindly to being pontificated by you or anyone else over whether you think I am fit or unfit to breed. It is a parents God given right to breed and it is NONE of your inherent business to STOP them, no matter HOW righteous you think you are! Breeding is an inherent, personal and most private right given by Allah, NOT for you to arrogantly and selfrighteously dictate who you deem "fit" or "unfit". Parenting is an inherent right that I for one would be prepared to fight my arrogant busybody enemies to the death if needed be.
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sister herb
08-01-2010, 02:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Did you read the original post? Before you start accusing people of being kafirs, consider what many parents have (or haven't) done in the last thirty or so years. Some people should not be allowed to have children.
Peace with you

then to WHO we could give right to decide who can have kids and who doesn´t?

We can´t say kids become similar than they parents were.

Let me show you Omer Goldman (daughter of ex-boss of Mossad):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmCcT...layer_embedded
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Alpha Dude
08-01-2010, 04:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Karl
Says WHO exactly? You? Your arrogant selfrighteous authoritarian Marxist friends? Just who died and made YOU God? Well for your information I don't take kindly to being pontificated by you or anyone else over whether you think I am fit or unfit to breed. It is a parents God given right to breed and it is NONE of your inherent business to STOP them, no matter HOW righteous you think you are! Breeding is an inherent, personal and most private right given by Allah, NOT for you to arrogantly and selfrighteously dictate who you deem "fit" or "unfit". Parenting is an inherent right that I for one would be prepared to fight my arrogant busybody enemies to the death if needed be.
Relax man. It's only a hypothetical discussion. No true muslim can support it anyway.
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Asiyah3
08-01-2010, 04:34 PM
I see a license only as a barrier. We need to improve things, for example by arranging educational courses for parents, not build a wall and ban people from having kids.
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Alpha Dude
08-01-2010, 05:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by **muslimah**
I see a license only as a barrier. We need to improve things, for example by arranging educational courses for parents, not build a wall and ban people from having kids.
In what way would an educational course help though? I think the OP had in mind the case where people are abusing their kids in the worst possible form due to being incapable. For example, say there's a couple that live in an atmosphere of drink, drugs and clubbing and constant arguing along with low income. Let's also make the man short tempered. Are these people suitable for parenthood in their present state? Obviously not and it is these kinds of parents that would be prevented due to failing to meet set criteria, if there were to be this hypothetical license test.

Do you really think an education in parenting would help these guys? They have far bigger problems to work out and I don't think 45 minute a week self help lessons would do much good for them.

Not that I'm supporting the license, I'm just saying, education alone really isn't that strong a tool to prevent parents from doing something unjust/stupid.

Just take the recent case with the woman murdering her babies. Said classes would not have helped one bit (it's not like they would have taught her something basic like 'killing is wrong' :hmm: ). I suppose a license would not have been any better in this regard either.
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Danah
08-01-2010, 05:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by **muslimah**
I see a license only as a barrier. We need to improve things, for example by arranging educational courses for parents, not build a wall and ban people from having kids.
Yeah that's very true....because many of today's parent are no better than the kids they are trying to raise!
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Asiyah3
08-01-2010, 07:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
In what way would an educational course help though? I think the OP had in mind the case where people are abusing their kids in the worst possible form due to being incapable. For example, say there's a couple that live in an atmosphere of drink, drugs and clubbing and constant arguing along with low income. Let's also make the man short tempered. Are these people suitable for parenthood in their present state? Obviously not and it is these kinds of parents that would be prevented due to failing to meet set criteria, if there were to be this hypothetical license test.

Do you really think an education in parenting would help these guys? They have far bigger problems to work out and I don't think 45 minute a week self help lessons would do much good for them.

Not that I'm supporting the license, I'm just saying, education alone really isn't that strong a tool to prevent parents from doing something unjust/stupid.

Just take the recent case with the woman murdering her babies. Said classes would not have helped one bit (it's not like they would have taught her something basic like 'killing is wrong' :hmm: ). I suppose a license would not have been any better in this regard either.
:sl:

Those cases are utterly disgusting and sick, but also quite rare. Practically, I'm not sure if such cases can be prevented in any ways, unless we change the world entirely as I doubt these people would even ask for help.

People in general need more knowledge about kids. If I hadn't taken the developmental psychology course in my school, I believe my thinking would be very different. Praise be to Allah I learned a lot about kids, their brain development, their understanding, their world and how different kinds of upbringings would affect a child.

Would the knowledge on these help parents? In my opinion it'd help those who are willing to understand children and raise them right. All people aren't like that.

Some parents still in this time abuse their children and punish them when they do wrong instead of communication. Nonetheless, parents that neglect their children aren't any better in the least. Don't you think these parents need classes?
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Darth Ultor
08-01-2010, 10:24 PM
If not a license, then there should be required parenting classes in high school.
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Danah
08-01-2010, 10:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
..................there should be required parenting classes in high school.
Exactly! this is what we need nowadays. They already teach them about some topics related to marriage then why not include parenting lessons too as an important part of marriage life ?
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Karl
08-02-2010, 12:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
Relax man. It's only a hypothetical discussion. No true muslim can support it anyway.
Glad to hear it, I don't know how these radical ideas can even be discussed. A license to have children? Sounds Satanic to me. Maybe the evil force of Sauron has taken over Boaz?
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Karl
08-02-2010, 12:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
If not a license, then there should be required parenting classes in high school.
More radical control freak ideas....you waste your time dark sorcerer your evil eye has no effect on me, only the weak minded amongst us. True Muslims cannot be grinded down by your petty evil powers, Allah is our shield.
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Asiyah3
08-02-2010, 01:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Karl
More radical control freak ideas....you waste your time dark sorcerer your evil eye has no effect on me, only the weak minded amongst us. True Muslims cannot be grinded down by your petty evil powers, Allah is our shield.
:sl:
What's wrong with parenting classes?
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Karl
08-02-2010, 01:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by **muslimah**
:sl:
What's wrong with parenting classes?
Look, I have no problem with "parenting classes" just as long as it is NOT made COMPULSORY. Voluntary parenting classes I have no problem with, but when it's COERCED that makes it a completely different matter! Furthermore parenting classes in high school is way too late anyway to get to know about such matters. It would be more logical to have it at primary school level. Also I don't believe in state education; all education should be privatized and paid by the parents, not the tax payer. Some parents might not even want their offspring to be formally educated and may have other plans for them instead.
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Darth Ultor
08-02-2010, 01:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Karl
More radical control freak ideas....you waste your time dark sorcerer your evil eye has no effect on me, only the weak minded amongst us. True Muslims cannot be grinded down by your petty evil powers, Allah is our shield.

So be it. If you will not be turned, then you will be destroyed. *shoots lightning* HAHAHAHAHA! Only now do you truly realize the power of the dark side! *shoots more lightning*. Now, young Skywalker, you will die.

All joking aside, I don't see it as evil. Just a complete loss of faith in humanity as a whole.
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Ummu Sufyaan
08-02-2010, 04:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Danah

Yeah that's very true....because many of today's parent are no better than the kids they are trying to raise!
the question is, if we need classes to be parents, are we ready to be parents??? the fact that we need classes, (to me personally) tell me that is something fundamentally wrong that needs addressing first (unless of course you are talking about teenage/unexpected pregnancies, etc but then again that's due to the lack of Islamic guidelines being upheld, i would think so anyway).

its like trying to get married young people off and insist that there parents help out with the bills, etc. if your parents are helping you with your marital life and all then are you really ready to get married? its makes no sense.

call me old fashioned but our parents didn't need these sort of classes and they were pretty brilliant. i think its a matter of priority and commitment. i think once you have at-least those two are present, then the raising the rest should follow. i guess one could use parenting classes if they are away from their families, their own parents dies early, etc and similar things were it helps to nurture the idea of how to raise and look after children.
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Danah
08-02-2010, 09:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
the question is, if we need classes to be parents, are we ready to be parents??? the fact that we need classes, (to me personally) tell me that is something fundamentally wrong that needs addressing first (unless of course you are talking about teenage/unexpected pregnancies, etc but then again that's due to the lack of Islamic guidelines being upheld, i would think so anyway).
Many people get married without having an idea what is marriage life is all about in the first place. They think that its very simply to be with a spouse under the same rough...having no sense of responsibility or any commitment to the family. How can we expect such people to raise good kids?

its like trying to get married young people off and insist that there parents help out with the bills, etc. if your parents are helping you with your marital life and all then are you really ready to get married? its makes no sense.
No that not what I meant, I meant at least let them know what is it to have kids in the first place, more like giving them a general idea about the whole thing instead of being shocked later.

call me old fashioned but our parents didn't need these sort of classes and they were pretty brilliant. i think its a matter of priority and commitment. i think once you have at-least those two are present, then the raising the rest should follow. i guess one could use parenting classes if they are away from their families, their own parents dies early, etc and similar things were it helps to nurture the idea of how to raise and look after children.
[/QUOTE]

Oh no! our parents are totally different story, their generation was so different than ours. Above all, life was not complicated as it is now. You can't guarantee that your kids won't be influenced by the outside corrupted world even when they are on the way from home to school. Raising kids these days is harder than old days. 20 or 30 years ago they didn't hear about kids taking drugs, Internet pornography, and those groups that aim to gather teenagers and make them adopt some weird thoughts....and such. In today's world, raising kids become another concept, its not only feed them, take them to school, and buy them clothes.
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aamirsaab
08-02-2010, 03:51 PM
I understand the OP's view perfectly; there are unfortunately many parents that do not now how to raise their children. It's even worse in cases with abusive parents (which goes as far as sexual abuse) or neglective ones (like those who literally abandon their kids...).

I wish it was as simple as having a license to parent (that would help a lot!), but a license is not the solution. People in general have to realise that parenthood shouldn't be taken lightly. You can't do it whimsically.
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GuestFellow
11-13-2010, 09:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
After hearing of several incidents of neglect, murder, and abuse that occur within families on the news, I begin to ask myself, is everyone qualified to be a parent?
Hi,

No, not everyone is qualified to be a parent. This is where social services come in.

I personally think that prospective parents should go through certain testings before they decide to have a baby.
I can see many problems with this.

Firstly, everyone has a different idea how to raise children. Will these tests be able to reflect the diverse methods of raising children? For example, secular parents will take a different approach to raise children than religious parents.

Secondly, what does the test involve? Are they fit purpose? Will these tests be able to distinguish between ''good'' and ''bad'' parents? How would you define good and bad?

Thirdly, how much will these tests actually cost?

Fourthly, is it possible to make every potential parent to take these tests?

Lastly, how will you prevent a couples from having a child when they have taken the test and failed?

This system to me appears to be very impractical and very difficult to implement. A license? Yay for bureaucracy!

You have good intentions but your idea needs much more work.
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Yanal
11-17-2010, 12:59 AM
:sl:

I agree that many parents are neglecting,abusing,both physically and mentally in all types of various ways but is a license neccesary? Hmm,I don't know,will the government go into each house and check if they are having kids without a license?
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CosmicPathos
05-18-2012, 02:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
I understand the OP's view perfectly; there are unfortunately many parents that do not now how to raise their children. It's even worse in cases with abusive parents (which goes as far as sexual abuse) or neglective ones (like those who literally abandon their kids...).
Was Umar al Khattab's dad abusive when he used to beat his son to shepherd sheep with a stick? I say if such caning can produce children like Umar (ra), so be it! I am caning my kids, inshAllah!

What load of -------s on regulating parenting. One should also then get a license for having sex with one's spouse, cuz surely some spouses dont know how to please the partner in the bed!
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BadOlPuttyTat
05-18-2012, 03:01 AM
YES!YES! AND AGAIN YES!
Parents should obtain a license by government for having or keeping kids, wether
it be their own or not. Mother's should also have a license for giving birth!Parents in the US let their kids walk to school alone and everyday in my area a kid gets kidnapped or raped by some pervert. Parents are just wondering how can this happen. WALK YOUR KID OR DRIVE THEM OR SEND THEM ON A BUS YOU CRAZY FARTS! Parents in the US are utterly laughable, teachers were surprised my mother drove me to school.:raging: I believe some parents should be brought in public and beaten for some of the abuse and stupidity they do when handling their kids. Letting kids pet lions at a zoo, letting a 6 year old walk 2 miles to school, and above all else letting a kid ride his bike at 4AM in the morning while your asleep, and the child is 6! My mother was in foster care for the government county and the reports i hear of are laughable. These parents are not on drugs or drunk they just dont know a child shouldn't be outside riding his bike at 4 AM in the dark WHEN HE IS 6 YEARS OLD!

Sorry if i seem mad people but this is a topic that makes my bones turn red and become angry. The inner Muslim or even when i was a Christian tells me "don''t take sticks and beat abusive parents half way to death". But if you around this kids and parents like i have been then trust me, no matter how hard you try to be understanding or nice. YOU WILL want to take a baseball bat and beat some of these parents! I am a nice person but when it comes to awful parents who have the moral fiber of a pack of jackals i cannot stand it. I have known over 30 of these kids under awful parents and its utterly frustrating!

I apologize for my rant.












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CosmicPathos
05-18-2012, 03:07 AM
^^ such is life. Just accept it. Who the heck is government to determine who can parent and who cannot? Dont play God or Nature. Let the ones with superior genes survive the great test of time.

My dad drove me to school as a child. A kind gesture on his part, but I wish I had been let to walk to school. I'd be more self-dependent.

Things are not always right the way you see them.
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