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Al-Yasa
08-26-2010, 01:36 PM
Salam brothers and sisters

i was debating with a non muslim on another forum who claimed that the last sermon is fake. he clamied that it is an un-sourced writing from a book in 1990 from some Indian Muslim, that it is was made up. This is what he said :


The exerpt of the sermon you posted, is not in ANY hadith, or in any Islamic historical text.

It is an un-sourced writing from a book in 1990 from some Indian Muslim, the source of your sermon was found, and it is not hadith, or in any hadith.

The Sermon referenced in Hadith, are not complete, but they refer to the sermon that most fits Al-Tabari's rendition.


Now then, O people, you have a right over your wives and they have a right over you. You have [the right] that they should not cause anyone of whom you dislike to tread on your beds; and that they should not commit any open indecency. If they do, then Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain from [evil], they have the right to their food and clothing in accordance with the custom. Treat women well, for they are [like] domestic animals with you and do not possess anything for themselves. You have taken them only as a trust from Allah, and you have made the enjoyment of their persons lawful by the word of Allah, so understand and listen to my words, O people. I have conveyed the Message, and have left you with something which, if you hold fast to it, you will never go astray; that is, the Book of Allah and the sunnah of his Prophet. Listen to my words, O people, for I have conveyed the Message and understand [it]. Know for certain that every Muslim is a brother of another Muslim, and that all Muslims are brethren. It is not lawful for a person [to take] from his brother except that which he has given him willingly, so do not wrong yourselves. O Allah, have I not conveyed the message?"
-Al Tabari 9

Why don't you do some research into your religion, oh btw, isn't attributing falsities on your prophet wrong?
what should i say?
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Salahudeen
08-27-2010, 08:40 AM
edit.............
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
08-27-2010, 04:01 PM
Bump . . . . . .
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
08-27-2010, 04:11 PM
Aslaamu`Alaaykum

First of all i would like to say, you should quit this whole debating thing as it creates doubt in ones heart about their faith, if you have certain Questions you should ask your fellow muslims and ofcourse do some research yourself. And secondly your friend there is also incorrect, he claims that "The final sermon" is not mentioned in any Hadeeth and whatever else he claimed.

Brother we take knowledge from the knowledgeable not the Un-Knowledgeable!
The last sermon of the Prophet-peace be upon him- is known as Khutbatul Wada' which in arabic according to my knowledge means "The last sermon" inshaAllaah if im incorrect please correct me. It is mentioned in almost all books of Hadeeth such as Saheeh al Bukhaari,Saheeh al Muslim and also Imam al Tirmidhi and many more InshaAllaah.

InshaAllaah i shall try post up Hadeeth when i get time and brothers and sisters who have more knowledge regarding this can help you indeed

Wa Alaaykum Salaam
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Muslim Woman
08-27-2010, 05:54 PM
Salaam bro

our duty is to give message , it's upto disbelievers either to accept or reject the Truth.

Debating is a wastage of time and energy . Even if u win the debate , it does not mean that ur opponent will agree with u or accept Islam . So , if anyone asks to ' know' about Islam sincerely , then answer ; otherwise don't waste time .

U may invite that participant to read the biography of the Prophet pbuh from Islamic sources . If s/he denies , then just ignore . Don't continue this or any debate . My experience taught me that some non-Muslims just browse the anti Islamic sites and copy and paste allegations. They will never read ur posts or try to understannd . They will keep insulting the Prophet pbuh . So , it's better to avoid debate - just provide the info and then say ' Salaam '.
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أحمد
08-27-2010, 06:23 PM
:sl:

References to the last sermon are given in Muwatta Imam Malik, Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal and various other Hadeeth books. The earliest written sources date back to within the first century Hijri; these are Zuhri and Ibn Ishaq.

:wa:
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جوري
08-27-2010, 11:35 PM
missionaries can write anything.. still won't change recorded history, and it won't change the fact that they worship a self-immolating mangod who abrogated his commandments through his nemesis after he forsake himself.. I can't begin to have an intelligent conversation with a christian. I am confounded by the basic tenets of their beliefs to carry it any further!

all the best
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Caller الداعي
08-27-2010, 11:41 PM
i agree we shouldnt debate if we lack knowledge coz today he may of raised this and tomorrow he may raise another issue the questions and doubts may never end
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Alpha Dude
08-27-2010, 11:49 PM
Asalamu alaykum,
The exerpt of the sermon you posted, is not in ANY hadith, or in any Islamic historical text.
What exactly did you post, sister?
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جوري
08-28-2010, 12:41 AM
Living Shari`ah > Muhammad > Reflections

The Prophet's Farewell Sermon
By Living Shari`ah Staff

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) delivered this sermon on the 9 Dhul-Hijjah 10 a.h. in the valley of Mount `Arafat, during his final Hajj, known as the Farewell Hajj. The contents of the message were collected from different narrations, and there are other parts of it that are not mentioned here. After praising, and thanking Allah, he said: O people, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether, after this year, I will ever be among you again. Therefore, listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and take these words to those who could not be present today.
O people, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your Lord, and that He will indeed reckon your deeds. Allah has forbidden you to take interest; therefore, all interest obligations shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer inequity. Allah has judged that there shall be no interest and that all interest due to al-`Abbas ibn `Abdul-Muttalib shall henceforth be waived.
Every right arising out of homicide in pre-Islamic days is henceforth waived, and the first such right I waive is that arising from the murder of Rabi`ah ibn Al-Harith [a relative of the Prophet]. O mankind, the unbelievers indulge in tampering with the calendar in order to make permissible that which Allah forbade, and to forbid that which Allah has made permissible. With Allah the months are twelve; four of them are holy; three of these (holy months) are successive and one occurs singly between the months of Jumadah and Sha`ban.
O people, beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.
O people, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Treat your women well and be kind to them, for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with anyone of whom you do not approve, as well as never commit adultery.
O people, listen to me in earnest. Worship Allah, say your five daily prayers, fast during the month of Ramadan, and give the share of Zakah in your wealth. Perform Hajj if you can afford to. All mankind is from Adam and Eve. An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab, nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black, nor does a black have any superiority over a white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is the brother of another Muslim and that Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim that belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.
Remember, one day you will appear before Allah and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.
O people, no prophet or messenger will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O people, and understand my words that I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my example, the Sunnah, and if you follow these you will never go astray.
All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others, and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed Your message to Your people
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1158658486691
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Al-Yasa
08-28-2010, 02:37 PM
The person claimed that this Sermon was not in any hadith, or in any Islamic historical text.

O people, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether, after this year, I will ever be among you again. Therefore, listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and take these words to those who could not be present today.
O people, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your Lord, and that He will indeed reckon your deeds. Allah has forbidden you to take interest; therefore, all interest obligations shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer inequity. Allah has judged that there shall be no interest and that all interest due to al-`Abbas ibn `Abdul-Muttalib shall henceforth be waived.
Every right arising out of homicide in pre-Islamic days is henceforth waived, and the first such right I waive is that arising from the murder of Rabi`ah ibn Al-Harith [a relative of the Prophet]. O mankind, the unbelievers indulge in tampering with the calendar in order to make permissible that which Allah forbade, and to forbid that which Allah has made permissible. With Allah the months are twelve; four of them are holy; three of these (holy months) are successive and one occurs singly between the months of Jumadah and Sha`ban.
O people, beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.
O people, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Treat your women well and be kind to them, for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with anyone of whom you do not approve, as well as never commit adultery.
O people, listen to me in earnest. Worship Allah, say your five daily prayers, fast during the month of Ramadan, and give the share of Zakah in your wealth. Perform Hajj if you can afford to. All mankind is from Adam and Eve. An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab, nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black, nor does a black have any superiority over a white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is the brother of another Muslim and that Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim that belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.
Remember, one day you will appear before Allah and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.
O people, no prophet or messenger will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O people, and understand my words that I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my example, the Sunnah, and if you follow these you will never go astray.
All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others, and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed Your message to Your people
Reply

Ğħαrєєвαħ
08-28-2010, 02:54 PM
Aslaamu`Alaaykum

Are you seriously believing every word of his? We muslims give Dawah, and leave it to other to accept or not, Bro you are aware that they "claim" the Quraan is a false book? You are aware that they curse the Prophet Muhammad SAW? Then when we bring forth the proof they deny even though it is clear, when we tell them that the Prophet Isa AS was a mighty prophet, they deny that! Hes probably gonna bring up more "claims" and then your faith will decrease, if you have no knowledge why are you continuing with him? Are you not concerned more that Allaah is your creator and what he wants of you? rather than trying to please some Kufar of his false claims/beliefs? You know your not meant to be debating esp on the Month of Ramadhaan or even at all despite being somebody with no knowledge? Better it is to give Dawah, for Allaah is the one who shall guide, the lost are those who when you show them the most logical proof they still deny it, like a baby is born impure according to some beliefs when in reality how can a new born baby be sinful?

Its the Month of Ramadhaan Alhamdulilaah and we as muslims are meant to better ourselves, or do you have doubt about your faith ya akhi?

I hope you understand what im trynna get at , for what Allaah wants is for your own benefit!

Wa Alaaykum Salaam

Edit: And yes like i said, if you did show them the truth they will still deny it, so because they deny, are you going to join the flock?
Reply

جوري
08-28-2010, 03:03 PM
Originally Posted by Al-Yasa
The person claimed that this Sermon was not in any hadith, or in any Islamic historical text.
as stated above anyone can can write anything.. there is no historical record of Jesus having existed outside of the bible, and the bible is wrought with error, so it is up to you to believe he at all existed let alone was a god!

all the best
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cat eyes
08-28-2010, 03:28 PM
if you believe that kafir then your a fool.. because only a scholar of islam would be able to tell whether this hadith was recorded or not. a mufti who has studied the religion nearly all his life would be able to tell whether this is for real or not.

and your going to listen to some fool of the internet who is very deceiving and clever and knows how to mess with the heads of people who have absolutely no knowledge about the deen at all.

please don't debate with these people. all of them are liars and the majority of them are getting payed to spend all there long hours on internet painting a bad picture or islam and spreading lies and driving muslims astray.

PLEASE BE CAREFUL AND STOP DEBATING WITH THESE PEOPLE. they are trained what to say and how to mess with a persons head
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Al-Yasa
08-28-2010, 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by cat eyes
if you believe that kafir then your a fool.. because only a scholar of islam would be able to tell whether this hadith was recorded or not. a mufti who has studied the religion nearly all his life would be able to tell whether this is for real or not.

and your going to listen to some fool of the internet who is very deceiving and clever and knows how to mess with the heads of people who have absolutely no knowledge about the deen at all.

please don't debate with these people. all of them are liars and the majority of them are getting payed to spend all there long hours on internet painting a bad picture or islam and spreading lies and driving muslims astray.

PLEASE BE CAREFUL AND STOP DEBATING WITH THESE PEOPLE. they are trained what to say and how to mess with a persons head
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

as stated above anyone can can write anything.. there is no historical record of Jesus having existed outside of the bible, and the bible is wrought with error, so it is up to you to believe he at all existed let alone was a god!

all the best
Originally Posted by мυѕℓιмαн 4 ℓιfє
Aslaamu`Alaaykum

Are you seriously believing every word of his? We muslims give Dawah, and leave it to other to accept or not, Bro you are aware that they "claim" the Quraan is a false book? You are aware that they curse the Prophet Muhammad SAW? Then when we bring forth the proof they deny even though it is clear, when we tell them that the Prophet Isa AS was a mighty prophet, they deny that! Hes probably gonna bring up more "claims" and then your faith will decrease, if you have no knowledge why are you continuing with him? Are you not concerned more that Allaah is your creator and what he wants of you? rather than trying to please some Kufar of his false claims/beliefs? You know your not meant to be debating esp on the Month of Ramadhaan or even at all despite being somebody with no knowledge? Better it is to give Dawah, for Allaah is the one who shall guide, the lost are those who when you show them the most logical proof they still deny it, like a baby is born impure according to some beliefs when in reality how can a new born baby be sinful?

Its the Month of Ramadhaan Alhamdulilaah and we as muslims are meant to better ourselves, or do you have doubt about your faith ya akhi?

I hope you understand what im trynna get at , for what Allaah wants is for your own benefit!

Wa Alaaykum Salaam

Edit: And yes like i said, if you did show them the truth they will still deny it, so because they deny, are you going to join the flock?
You guys are right ! I shouldn't debate with him/her especially during ramadan. This person isn't a scholar therefore not knowledgeable.

Thanks Guys. :)
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Muslim Woman
08-28-2010, 05:31 PM
Salaam bro


Originally Posted by Al-Yasa
The person claimed that this Sermon was not in any hadith, or in any Islamic historical text.
what proof does he have ? Why are u beleveing his each and every words ?

Ok , I just saw ur last post . Good that u have understood it's useless to continue debate like this . specially in the blessed month. My request is even after Ramadan , do not continue debate . Just give info .
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