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h-n
09-13-2010, 09:26 PM
I live in the UK and when some people have died in the past and present;-
they say rest in peace, and even "God bless them"

1. when a homosexual dies, ie when that singer from Boyzone died.

2. when a sinful people die, ie those that get drunk and be killed on train tracks

3. when people died in that "love parade" in Germany

4. when people commit suicide they actually say they "hope" that there is a Paradise for them, and the couple who committed suicide together and be in peace.

5. At work on time a female colleague in her 40s, said that she does not believe in God, but said that she believes there is one for her parents that are already dead!!! How can you get away from Allah?? Of course you cannot. But when we say there is a Paradise for Muslims they reject that.

BUT when a Muslim dies in the name of Islam they are happy to say, there is no Paradise, and the poor fools that died in Mecca for nothing (its OK for people to die in a love parade but not in Mecca), and they are willing not to say that about people who die nightclubbing etc.
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LauraS
09-14-2010, 12:53 PM
When you say "die in the name of Islam" do you mean the suicide bombers who blow themselves and innocent people to pieces? I doubt Allah would welcome them as heroes and most Muslims want to dissociate themsleves from these people. Suicide bombers are cowards as they don't don't keep themselves alive to face their actions. If a God did approve the murder of innocent people then they wouldn't be worth worshipping. (Sorry if I misunderstood your meaning)

Homosexual people can't help their feelings the way they are, it is likely to do with the X and Y chromosomes which is why they have traits of a female if they are male etc I have gay friends who are amongst the most caring people I know.
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Woodrow
09-14-2010, 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by h-n
I live in the UK and when some people have died in the past and present;-
they say rest in peace, and even "God bless them"

1. when a homosexual dies, ie when that singer from Boyzone died.

2. when a sinful people die, ie those that get drunk and be killed on train tracks

3. when people died in that "love parade" in Germany

4. when people commit suicide they actually say they "hope" that there is a Paradise for them, and the couple who committed suicide together and be in peace.

5. At work on time a female colleague in her 40s, said that she does not believe in God, but said that she believes there is one for her parents that are already dead!!! How can you get away from Allah?? Of course you cannot. But when we say there is a Paradise for Muslims they reject that.

BUT when a Muslim dies in the name of Islam they are happy to say, there is no Paradise, and the poor fools that died in Mecca for nothing (its OK for people to die in a love parade but not in Mecca), and they are willing not to say that about people who die nightclubbing etc.
If you are referring to suicide bombers we have to take in consideration as to how suicide bombers are perceived. While some if not many of us who are Muslim perceive them as being Martyrs and heros. We need to look closely at just who many of them have been. Because a person kills themselves in a deliberate attempt to destroy the enemy does not automatically mean they died a martyr's death. We need to know their true intent and know if the attack was justified and their was no other option. Sadly in many cases the suicide bombing seems to have been self serving and was a disguised attempt to justify the suicide. A suicide bomber all too often has only removed a brave Mujahadin from the Ummah. It would most often have been far better if they fought as soldiers with the goal to stay alive and fight only proven enemies who are a physical threat to Islam. That way they could avoid killing innocents and live as a valued soldier doing more good for the Ummah. A person who deliberatly seeks martyrdom is not necessarily a martyr.

Too many of the suicide bombers have left the impression they are people who do not have the courage to face the trials of life and choose to end their life in as dramatic manner as possible. We need true Mujahaun who are not afraid to face life and will strive to fight justly without harming innocents and while not fearing death, try to live in order to fight more battles.

Here in the USA we have had several non-Muslim Suicide bombers. The press and the general public treated them with the same disdain. Can one envision the idiot who flew his airplane into the Austin IRS office as a martyr or hero. Or the anti Catholic Zealot that flew his plane into a catholic shrine in Mission Texas several years ago? How about the likes of Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma federal building bombing. If he had not chickened out and left the scene before the blast, would anybody see him as a hero or as a martyr?
These have been fairly common events among the Kafir. They get the same lack of respect the non-Muslims understandably see all suicide bombers in the same category and sadly in many cases they are no different from each other. While some of the Muslim Bombers could very well be true Mujahidun and are real martyrs, the numbers and examination of the events do not hold that to be true. In too many cases proper military tactics would have had better results with less loss of life and would have not cost us the life of a very brave young Muslim. Far better to go into battle with no fear of death and with the intent to come out of the battle alive in order to fight again. Also keep in mind explosives were available to the Arab world at the time of our beloved Prophet. Suicide bombings could have been done during the great battles. Yet, not one is known to have occurred. No hadith mentions any justification of suicide bombings although the means to do so did exist. It is also known the Muslims of the era did have possession of a horrible weapon similar to the dreaded Greek Fire(very much like napalm). Yet, they never used it in war fare. Can we condemn the use of drone bombers and the dropping of phosphorous by our enemies and in the same breath justify suicide bombings?

It is understandable the media does not glorify the suicide bombers and does not view them as martyrs or heroes.
while I agree some suicide bombers may be justified and some may be true martyrs, the ones who seek death in order to avoid the trials of life or to gain fame seem to be the most visible ones.
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جوري
09-14-2010, 02:57 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS

Homosexual people can't help their feelings the way they are,
But can they help who they jump in bed with? or are we created to bed everyone we are infatuated with?

it is likely to do with the X and Y chromosomes
I am amused, I can't wait for you to expound on that!

all the best
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MartyrX
09-14-2010, 03:13 PM
Personally I say Rest in Peace no matter the person unless they have harmed innocent people. Then I say nothing.

I'm interested in finding out what you meant by "in the name of Islam." I under no circumstances look at those people as heroes or martyrs. They are cowards.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
09-14-2010, 03:46 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
Homosexual people can't help their feelings the way they are, it is likely to do with the X and Y chromosomes which is why they have traits of a female if they are male etc I have gay friends who are amongst the most caring people I know.
There are reasons to why God created everything in pairs. i.e. male and female. They cant help there feelings coz their mind is perverted.
Its not natural to be gay, its out of human nature! There are many examples, a gay couple can never have future together and its disturbing people will just hate em more coz of their ways :-\. Its funny how the gay people may feel upset when they cannot have children :-\


If you believe in God you would realise that God doesnt do things without a reason, so when we go about doing things he created us not to do, i dont see why God shouldnt punish one, its ridiculous, that why he asks us to Repent! And that repentance only benefits oneself and not God, in other word god doesnt want you doing things that harm you!
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Asiyah3
09-14-2010, 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
Suicide bombers are cowards as they don't don't keep themselves alive to face their actions.
Peace,
True. I'm against suicide even if it's for the sake of saving the whole humanity.

"O my sons! go ye and enquire about Joseph and his brother, and never give up hope of Allah's Soothing Mercy: truly no one despairs of Allah's Soothing Mercy, except those who have no faith." (12:87)

If a God did approve the murder of innocent people then they wouldn't be worth worshipping. (Sorry if I misunderstood your meaning)
Allah has forbidden suicide and everything that would harm you. So will you now worship Him? :)
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Woodrow
09-14-2010, 04:06 PM
At the risk in going off topic in order to address the homosexual question.

The problem is not with a person having homosexual tendencies, the problem is with how they control them. this is were self responsibility comes into play. Yes, a homosexual has a choice as to living or not living a deviant life style.

Each and every human being living today has had or will have sexual desires that are deviant. I have heard it said that if the inner most sexual fantasies of a human were made public, they would embarrass even the most deviant Shaytan. Yes, we all have deviant thoughts and sometimes even strong desires. Yet, the majority of us control them and do not act upon them and recognize they are thoughts we are forbidden to act upon. Homosexual activities are a matter of choice even if the tendency is not.
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LauraS
09-14-2010, 05:17 PM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
But can they help who they jump in bed with? or are we created to bed everyone we are infatuated with?



I am amused, I can't wait for you to expound on that!

all the best
People choose who they "jump into bed with", but what would be the point of a man being with a woman, marrying her and then being completely unhappy for the rest of his life? What if two men, perfectly nice people, got together and spent their whole lives happy. If people are against homosexuality for religious reasons though it's very difficult to deabte about it because you'll be against it no matter what is said about people's happiness.

As for the chromosome thing, sometimes men have more X chromosomes than usual and this creates feminine traits, obviously people use the word "camp". The opposite is the same for a woman. Obviously I'm not a scientist and wouldn't pretend to know more than I do, I'm just speculating. Isn't it strange how homosexual men very often appear feminine, so couldn't there be a link? There's a link somewhere which suggests it's not just something they chose but something that happens. Equally no one knows how the brain works, there was an English man who one day woke up an Italian accent and the ability to play the piano perfectly. What if it's just something to do with the brain? Another, slightly different theory is about past lives, if reincarnation is real then what if someone was a different gender previously and retained some sort of memory? Like people who feel they were born in the wrong body. No one knows what causes homosexuality but I'm sure there's a scientific explanation somewhere and that it's not just something people choose one day.

Just out of interest have you ever spoken much to a gay person?



Muslimah 4 life- Not everybody hates gay people or finds the idea of them being together disturbing. I've known perfectly happy gay couples accepted by those around them and I say good luck to them!

Originally Posted by **muslimah**

Allah has forbidden suicide and everything that would harm you. So will you now worship Him? :)
I believe that if there is a God out there he certainly wouldn't praise half of what people have done in the name of religion over time, so I hope if He does exist I hope He gives some of these people a shock when they meet Him. :p But I still have more questions. I would love to believe.
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h-n
09-14-2010, 05:40 PM
I don't refer to suicide bombings -already written a thread called "Terrorists, why they are completely wrong"
Dying in Islam also means dying in the state of praying etc, and not just fighting. (when I wrote this article 100% was I not referring to people fighting in the name of Islam anyway).

Also even Allah has mentioned in the Quran, that if you are so truthful then bring a verse yourself that you have received from Allah.

-Allah has already given us the rules to pass the test, homosexuals will NOT be going to Paradise (if they don't repent) He is not going to suddenly change the rules on the Day of Judgement. Also he has provided the story of Prophet Lut peace be upon him.

-NO ONE should be going around saying that so and so is in heaven, when clearly they were not being religious, ie being homosexuals, dying whilst going out being drunk etc. -UNLESS they can show a verse that they have received from Allah saying that they will be going to go to Paradise.

Non of the Prophets, ie Prophet Ibrahim, Noah, Lut, Jesus, Muhammad, Moses peace be upon him ever did say that homosexuals will be going to Paradise. (covered homosexuality in "Homosexuality the depravity" they are liars, they still play masculine, feminine roles in their "relationships", so if they really believed in having sex etc with another Male, then why is it not a masculine to masculine relationship, but one is assuming the feminine role etc). Anyway not to turn this thread into about homosexuality.

IF ANYONE AGREES WITH HOMOSEXUALITY, THEN IT IS NO HARD THING FOR ALLAH TO ALLOW THEM TO STAND WITH THE HOMOSEXUALS ON THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT THEN WE WILL SEE IF THEY WILL SUPPORT THEM THEN, BUT OF COURSE THEY WILL NOT. What an earth do some people think? That Allah destroyed the homosexuals at the time of Prophet Lut peace be upon him so that he can take them to Paradise so they can have a picnic and carry on with their deprave homosexual behaviour etc? Nay utter wrong, its not about what you think, show a verse that you have received from Allah saying that homosexuals will be going to Paradise, as we have received from Allah by numerous Prophets saying that they will be entering Hell if they do not repent.

Also as per other threads "Non-Muslims and Islam" etc ie

-Prophet Ibrahim, Moses, Noah peace be upon them did not say you be nice to each other first and then once you are kind to each other that is all that matter. Even if you were just being nice to each other, the focus is on getting attention from another, not from Allah, so why should Allah reward you? When you are not striving to be close to him.

-The Prophets Ibrahim, Moses, Noah peace be upon them ALL told people to repent, worship Allah, remember the Day of Judgement and in Paradise and Hell on the FIRST DAY. People automatically be kind afterwards,, people do refer to stories such as a women going to Paradise because she gave a dog some water-BUT she believed in the one God.

-so you don't earn a place in Paradise for just having what you want in this world, ie your not going to go to Paradise, enjoyed eating oranges and apples, and ice-creams and showing to Allah that you can enjoy yourselves on holiday etc-how are you actually showing that you have "earned" your reward in Paradise? You pray, remember and not be lewd etc.


- it has never been about sitting there getting what you want in this world, and enjoying yourselves, that is what people used to do before, to look for the life of this world. How absurd, they think to be treated as if they are innocent because they were being happy to enjoy the life of this world? Then suddenly they died, and now they deserve Paradise, having done nothing to strive for it? Then they claim to be kindness, well anyone can be kind, even Satan can put a show of being kind etc, that does not prove that you are being good. Even the Dajjal is being "kinder" to people who join him.

AS per the Prophets teachings worship the one God, remember the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell and then everything falls into place ie not being lewd etc.
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جوري
09-14-2010, 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
People choose who they "jump into bed with", but what would be the point of a man being with a woman, marrying her and then being completely unhappy for the rest of his life? What if two men, perfectly nice people, got together and spent their whole lives happy. If people are against homosexuality for religious reasons though it's very difficult to deabte about it because you'll be against it no matter what is said about people's happiness.
How do you know who is going to happy and who isn't when living the homosexual or even any lifestyle, have you surveyed every homosexual? until you do, I suggest you tinkle your little hypotheticals to yourself or like minded individuals. It isn't worth while to argue based on an a priori judgment, considering that I don't personally find you lucid or on an intellectual level!

As for the chromosome thing, sometimes men have more X chromosomes than usual and this creates feminine traits,
That is called Klinefelter syndrome many of whom get married and aren't aware of their condition until they are unable to father children.. the condition doesn't render them gay although it can render them of lower IQ depending on the number of x chromosomes, would you like to try again? I'll be waiting fervently for your exclusive research that is unbeknown to the rest of the geneticist world wide!
obviously people use the word "camp". The opposite is the same for a woman. Obviously I'm not a scientist and wouldn't pretend to know more than I do, I'm just speculating.
You are right, you are not a scientist and the more you write, the more tickled we all get. It isn't worth it to fill forums with mindless drivel that has no basis in science, simply because you desire to make a non-point for a deviant lifestyle!
Isn't it strange how homosexual men very often appear feminine, so couldn't there be a link?
No it isn't strange, that is how they like to act!
it isn't strange how kleptomaniacs like to steal or necrophiliacs break into morgues.

There's a link somewhere which suggests it's not just something they chose but something that happens.
and we'll be waiting for you to prove that link biological and not psychological!

Equally no one knows how the brain works, there was an English man who one day woke up an Italian accent and the ability to play the piano perfectly.
again, what does this have to do with homosexuality, although I am glad you unwittingly concede that it isn't a biological issue but a psychological one, I am sure you've given it no formal thought as is the case with most of what you write!
What if it's just something to do with the brain? Another, slightly different theory is about past lives, if reincarnation is real then what if someone was a different gender previously and retained some sort of memory? Like people who feel they were born in the wrong body. No one knows what causes homosexuality but I'm sure there's a scientific explanation somewhere and that it's not just something people choose one day.
I like tangentialiy and even circumstantiality as much as the next guy, but do you have a point are we to conclude that like many others you enjoy exercising the ''if you can't dazzle them with science baffle them with B.S''?
Just out of interest have you ever spoken much to a gay person?
I sit in my cave and sometimes lilymobile awaiting for you to enlighten me on others! ;D;D

all the best and thanks for the all too frequent chuckles..
on a last note, stay in school kid, I'd hate to think of how you'd lose it when people rip into you in the real world for your fascinating brand of ludicrous!
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
09-14-2010, 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
People choose who they "jump into bed with", but what would be the point of a man being with a woman, marrying her and then being completely unhappy for the rest of his life? What if two men, perfectly nice people, got together and spent their whole lives happy. If people are against homosexuality for religious reasons though it's very difficult to deabte about it because you'll be against it no matter what is said about people's happiness..
Are you saying every man and women married today are unhappy with their marriage? God created us humans so it doesnt apply to only religious people but every human on earth. lets think about it properly shall we.
God created us in pairs, then why do we go against the "normal" way and do things that go against our nature? if you believe in God you would know that God does EVERYTHING for a reason, if he wanted to people to be gay(May god forbid), then why didnt he create em that way? answer is he didnt and we humans follow our desires and some go to extreme levels, doing things out of our nature. if god wanted gays , then they would BE able to produce babies , am asking you why them gays arent able to do that? answer is God didnt create em that way, i hope i made sense.


Originally Posted by LauraS
As for the chromosome thing, sometimes men have more X chromosomes than usual and this creates feminine traits, obviously people use the word "camp". The opposite is the same for a woman. Obviously I'm not a scientist and wouldn't pretend to know more than I do, I'm just speculating. Isn't it strange how homosexual men very often appear feminine, so couldn't there be a link? There's a link somewhere which suggests it's not just something they chose but something that happens. Equally no one knows how the brain works, there was an English man who one day woke up an Italian accent and the ability to play the piano perfectly. What if it's just something to do with the brain? Another, slightly different theory is about past lives, if reincarnation is real then what if someone was a different gender previously and retained some sort of memory? Like people who feel they were born in the wrong body. No one knows what causes homosexuality but I'm sure there's a scientific explanation somewhere and that it's not just something people choose one day.

Just out of interest have you ever spoken much to a gay person?.
Yes its strange when men appear feminine and women appear masculine :-\. do you believe in reincarnation?


Originally Posted by LauraS
Muslimah 4 life- Not everybody hates gay people or finds the idea of them being together disturbing. I've known perfectly happy gay couples accepted by those around them and I say good luck to them!.
hating or loving something wont make one Right!
Well do you believe in God? and if so do you think its right for one to go against there nature when God didnt make them that way?

Be sure to ask more Questions and try creating a thread hopefully

I apologise to sister Hn for derailing the thread

Peace
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LauraS
09-14-2010, 07:35 PM
The Vales Lilly- It's pointless replying in full to you because the only response I'll get is sarcasm, you're incapable of having a reasonable discussion with people. As for school, I think maybe it's you that should go back as for all your superior intellect you seem to have missed out on lessons about manners and politeness which we learn as four year olds.

Muslimah 4 Life- I don't say ALL marriages are unhappy of course they're not, but they probably would be if a homosexual married someone of the opposite sex. I truly believe it's not something people choose and that has something to do with either our brains or chromosomes due to the feminie and masculine traits gay people display, maybe one day the reason will be discovered. It may seem unnatural, but gay people struggle for years over their feelings, as I said it's not something they just choose overnight. Who are we to judge if we've never experienced these feelings?

I think their may be something in reincarnation. I believe that our bodies are like shells and we have spirits, so what if a spirit goes into another body after we die? Someone said before that everything in the world is recycled, maybe the same is for spirits.

I'd be happy to discuss homosexuality in a separate thread but I don't know if it'd be pointless because when it comes to religion people are just dead against it and can't be convinced otherwise because they've been brought up to see it as wrong. Do you think it would work? :S I'd be quite interested to.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
09-14-2010, 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
I'd be happy to discuss homosexuality in a separate thread but I don't know if it'd be pointless because when it comes to religion people are just dead against it and can't be convinced otherwise because they've been brought up to see it as wrong. Do you think it would work? :S I'd be quite interested to.
Well it wouldnt be pointless so long as you fully understand the true reasons to why Islaam is against it, i dunno if any other religions are against it besides Islaam to be honest, maybe a thread should be opened to not upset the OP of this thread.
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جوري
09-14-2010, 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
The Vales Lilly- It's pointless replying in full to you because the only response I'll get is sarcasm, you're incapable of having a reasonable discussion with people. As for school, I think maybe it's you that should go back as for all your superior intellect you seem to have missed out on lessons about manners and politeness which we learn as four year olds.
It is pointless indeed for one reason and one alone, you can't defend your point to save your dear life and in desperate hopes that everyone is as ignorant and under-educated as you are so you can tinkle nonsense here and there about extra x chromosomes and femininity at face value.

I hope you learn something important from this (just to save yourself real life situation where you'd find yourself with your tail between your legs and with alot less moxie than you are exercising here) and that you opinion is worthless if you can't back it up.. and if you are into theorizing, then be prepared to be backed up by a body of literature and peer reviews.

There is no room for 'manners' with folks who enjoy a self-serving definition of the terms and well I am not really big on emotionality.. if you have an issue get a tissue and cry to someone who is willing to listen!

all the best as always!
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LauraS
09-14-2010, 08:12 PM
Originally Posted by мυѕℓιмαн 4 ℓιfє

Well it wouldnt be pointless so long as you fully understand the true reasons to why Islaam is against it, i dunno if any other religions are against it besides Islaam to be honest, maybe a thread should be opened to not upset the OP of this thread.
Christianity is against it, although recently there seems to be two crowds Christians for homosexual people being able to serve the Church and those dead against. I'm not sure about other religions. I'll start a thread then.
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h-n
09-14-2010, 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
I think their may be something in reincarnation. I believe that our bodies are like shells and we have spirits, so what if a spirit goes into another body after we die? Someone said before that everything in the world is recycled, maybe the same is for spirits.

I'd be happy to discuss homosexuality in a separate thread but I don't know if it'd be pointless because when it comes to religion people are just dead against it and can't be convinced otherwise because they've been brought up to see it as wrong. Do you think it would work? :S I'd be quite interested to.
There is already an open thread "Homosexuality a depravity" thread. Which you are always free to open your own.

But your continuing to post your jargon but continue to avoid the relevant points when discussing with Islam. Some of they points you stated;-

You talked about just being kind to each other-as long as people are being nice,
then you talked about what people want to do, ie if they want to engage in lewd behaviour it is their choice,
then you talked about reicarnation,

The relevant points that you are missing;-

Allah never said that homosexuals were acceptable,
Allah never said that as long as you are kind to each other and do what you want you go to Paradise, without worshipping him, accepting that there is one God, remembering the Day of Judgement and in Paradise and Hell.
Allah never said that people who die will come back to live in this world as other creatures-he has said they will either go to Paradise or Hell.

Prophet Jesus, Lut, Moses, Ibrahim, Muhammad peace be upon them NEVER said that homosexuals were acceptable-then who are to you to say otherwise?? You are not.

Are you saying that you are better then Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him that we are going to listen to you over him?? No.

Are you saying that the homosexuals are better then Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him that we are going to listen to them over him? No.

:bump1:

Being kind -read the "Freedom and evil acceptance" thread.

So your saying that people should accept homosexuals etc, then everyone would get along peacefully. WRONG.

1. Should Prophet Lut peace be upon him accepted the homosexuals?? No.
2. Should Prophet Jesus peace be upon him to avoid being crucified accepted the evil leaders at the time and stopped talking about Islam? No.
3. Should Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him to avoid being thrown into the fire, accepted the idol worshippers?? No.

:bump1:

YOUR WAY IS THE WAY OF EVIL, if anyone wanted to follow your way, the path is to Hell fire. Its not about accepting people, its about accepting evil. Again in the "Freedom and evil acceptance" thread.

You talk about now that you believe in reicarnation, homosexuals etc, so simple tell us when the Prophets Ibrahim, Moses, Lut, Jesus, Muhammad, Joseph, David, Solomon peace be upon them ever said that homosexuals, reicarnations etc were acceptable. Of course you cannot, so then have you received a REVELATION from Allah that reincarnation, homosexuals etc are acceptable and that they are to be rewarded with Paradise??? No. You are saying that Allah would be reicarnating you, then why?? Simple show us a verse that you have received from God. Which you cannot, just falsehood is all that you have, living a lie.

Islam is not about making up religion, religion is not man made, all the Prophets from different periods of time, came with the same message, to worship the one God, remember the Day of Judgement and in Paradise and Hell. See "Collapse of these countries" thread-the first few paragraphs there I have covered this. All that I ask is that you stop wasting the time of my Muslim Brothers and Sisters with your jargon.
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LauraS
09-14-2010, 08:33 PM
Gosh you're sounding a bit like the preachers who yell at you in the street. :S

I'm not a Muslim so I'm not saying anything about what Allah does or does not do and what I say in unlikely to be in accordance with Islam. I'm not telling anyone to listen to me above the prophets, it's extremely unlikely anyone would, I'm just giving my opinion.
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Vigno
09-14-2010, 09:00 PM
Originally Posted by h-n
There is already an open thread "Homosexuality a depravity" thread. Which you are always free to open your own.

But your continuing to post your jargon but continue to avoid the relevant points when discussing with Islam. Some of they points you stated;-

You talked about just being kind to each other-as long as people are being nice,
then you talked about what people want to do, ie if they want to engage in lewd behaviour it is their choice,
then you talked about reicarnation,

The relevant points that you are missing;-

Allah never said that homosexuals were acceptable,
Allah never said that as long as you are kind to each other and do what you want you go to Paradise, without worshipping him, accepting that there is one God, remembering the Day of Judgement and in Paradise and Hell.
Allah never said that people who die will come back to live in this world as other creatures-he has said they will either go to Paradise or Hell.

Prophet Jesus, Lut, Moses, Ibrahim, Muhammad peace be upon them NEVER said that homosexuals were acceptable-then who are to you to say otherwise?? You are not.

Are you saying that you are better then Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him that we are going to listen to you over him?? No.

Are you saying that the homosexuals are better then Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him that we are going to listen to them over him? No.

:bump1:

Being kind -read the "Freedom and evil acceptance" thread.

So your saying that people should accept homosexuals etc, then everyone would get along peacefully. WRONG.

1. Should Prophet Lut peace be upon him accepted the homosexuals?? No.
2. Should Prophet Jesus peace be upon him to avoid being crucified accepted the evil leaders at the time and stopped talking about Islam? No.
3. Should Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him to avoid being thrown into the fire, accepted the idol worshippers?? No.

:bump1:

YOUR WAY IS THE WAY OF EVIL, if anyone wanted to follow your way, the path is to Hell fire. Its not about accepting people, its about accepting evil. Again in the "Freedom and evil acceptance" thread.

You talk about now that you believe in reicarnation, homosexuals etc, so simple tell us when the Prophets Ibrahim, Moses, Lut, Jesus, Muhammad, Joseph, David, Solomon peace be upon them ever said that homosexuals, reicarnations etc were acceptable. Of course you cannot, so then have you received a REVELATION from Allah that reincarnation, homosexuals etc are acceptable and that they are to be rewarded with Paradise??? No. You are saying that Allah would be reicarnating you, then why?? Simple show us a verse that you have received from God. Which you cannot, just falsehood is all that you have, living a lie.

Islam is not about making up religion, religion is not man made, all the Prophets from different periods of time, came with the same message, to worship the one God, remember the Day of Judgement and in Paradise and Hell. See "Collapse of these countries" thread-the first few paragraphs there I have covered this. All that I ask is that you stop wasting the time of my Muslim Brothers and Sisters with your jargon.

Perfectly said!!!
No good can come from evil, and to be honest I was just so disgusted when I read those comments about homosexuality. I don't know what type of people accept them and wish them luck. Nice people are they? I would say only evil sees evil as nice. Yes we should treat everyone fairly but that doesn't mean we can complement such people or even smile to them.
It just shows that Allah swt is not unfair to the people of Hell, if anyone chooses to be disgusting then that one shall die in disgust if Allah wills and then treated just as disgusting as he or she is.

I would not say die in peace to such people, coz if Allah wills, peace is far from what they would have when dead as such.

Reincarnation? Funny enough I used to think so when I was 4 or 5 years old maybe? So basically only the ones with a little mind would get such thoughts and I would say the ones believing in them are mindless. That and yes no revelation has ever said such a thing and therefore, no human should assume such things, but most of what humans are following now are based on assumptions isn't it? Big Bang, Sun God, Cow God etc (Allah forbid).

Beauty belongs to the beautiful and dirt belongs to the dirty, choose what you please and Allah shall give each what they deserve.
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h-n
09-18-2010, 03:48 AM
Originally Posted by LauraS
Gosh you're sounding a bit like the preachers who yell at you in the street. :S

I'm not a Muslim so I'm not saying anything about what Allah does or does not do and what I say in unlikely to be in accordance with Islam. I'm not telling anyone to listen to me above the prophets, it's extremely unlikely anyone would, I'm just giving my opinion.
The way I talk is to the point. You don't have to tell us what is not in the way of Islam, as we already know what we don't accept!!! Of course we don't accept what Satan would wish us to accept! We forbid evil and enjoin good! The way of the Devil is your way at the moment, and if you don't repent then the fires of Hell for you.

And EXACTLY!!! If Islam didn't mean anything to you or to anyone else, then why is it so hard for anyone to name anyone who is better then the Prophets Ibrahim, Jesus peace be upon them?? If Islam didn't mean anything to you, then you would have easily named anyone who is above the Prophets. (Were I have been saying all along, everyone who rejects Islam is a liar as per what Allah has taught us, everyone rejects the truth not something that they didn't understand). You don't go to Hell for not knowing something, you go to Hell for rejecting the TRUTH!

:bump1:

I as per what Allah has taught us, believe that everyone is provided a fair test, and anyone who rejects Islam is a LIAR!! Allah does NOT send anyone to Hell because they didn't understand what is required of them. No Prophet has ever said that people genuinely don't know the truth, the Prophets told people to repent on the FIRST DAY, and expected them to repent and worship Allah straightaway! So why bother telling them to do something if it was not a part of them? As it was!

What is also ridiculous of "Atheists" is that they are quick to quote homosexuals when actually they understand Islam MORE THEN homosexuality. :bump1: So why bother quoting something that you don't understand?? Just throwing anything as per my other thread "No such thing as Atheism". Pathetic even just saying if an evil person is being nice to you, then you just automatically accept that person. Wow, is that all you care about, evil people just being nice to you, rather then forbidding evil and enjoining good?

So if you disagree with the above, see you on the Day of Judgement!!!
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h-n
09-18-2010, 03:53 AM
Originally Posted by Vigno
Perfectly said!!!
No good can come from evil, and to be honest I was just so disgusted when I read those comments about homosexuality. I don't know what type of people accept them and wish them luck. Nice people are they? I would say only evil sees evil as nice. Yes we should treat everyone fairly but that doesn't mean we can complement such people or even smile to them.
It just shows that Allah swt is not unfair to the people of Hell, if anyone chooses to be disgusting then that one shall die in disgust if Allah wills and then treated just as disgusting as he or she is.

I would not say die in peace to such people, coz if Allah wills, peace is far from what they would have when dead as such.

Reincarnation? Funny enough I used to think so when I was 4 or 5 years old maybe? So basically only the ones with a little mind would get such thoughts and I would say the ones believing in them are mindless. That and yes no revelation has ever said such a thing and therefore, no human should assume such things, but most of what humans are following now are based on assumptions isn't it? Big Bang, Sun God, Cow God etc (Allah forbid).

Beauty belongs to the beautiful and dirt belongs to the dirty, choose what you please and Allah shall give each what they deserve.
Thank-you, yes absolutely disgusting the non-Muslims think to quote homosexuals and what do they think we are going to do? Accept them as good people? Liars, and in obvious error.
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h-n
09-18-2010, 04:10 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
At the risk in going off topic in order to address the homosexual question.

The problem is not with a person having homosexual tendencies, the problem is with how they control them. this is were self responsibility comes into play. Yes, a homosexual has a choice as to living or not living a deviant life style.

Each and every human being living today has had or will have sexual desires that are deviant. I have heard it said that if the inner most sexual fantasies of a human were made public, they would embarrass even the most deviant Shaytan. Yes, we all have deviant thoughts and sometimes even strong desires. Yet, the majority of us control them and do not act upon them and recognize they are thoughts we are forbidden to act upon. Homosexual activities are a matter of choice even if the tendency is not.
The sexual desires are from the Devils, you can tell the difference because;-

1. One is just about having sex - which is why people are willing to have sex with someone whom they don't know the name of.
2. The other is about having a sexual "relationship" were the focus is more on spending time looking at each other etc, actually wanting to be with that person, because you are attracted to that person (which is were Point 1 lacks as it just talks about having sex with someone regardless of whatever you see in that person, which is also why people after having casual sex wouldn't even dream of marrying that person etc ).

It is so worse today, were much focus in on Point 1.

In Paradise;-

Everyone is looking good, you can't just say you want to have sex with that person, and that person and that person etc. So its about being mature, responsible etc. A Married woman in Paradise is not going to spend time looking at the good-looking men around her wishing she was also having sex with them as well rather then having sex with her husband. That is why there is a quote that women will be happy just looking at their husbands.

Males are just listening to society, society just says its normal that Males want to have sex, so the Males just play along with that, because they get what they want, so they don't bother standing up for themselves. It is a tip, even females aren't listening to Marriage, Men, how many Males actually told them to wear mini-skirts etc? Hardly, or never, actually females are listening to other females on how they should dress to have Males sexually like them. Leading them to act and behave lewd. They are happy to follow other lewd females examples by dressing badly, going to nightclubs etc, even at School if someone has a boyfriend, there are females who have said that they wanted a "boyfriend", anyway this is going a bit off topic, but it goes to show that people are following the crowd even in relationships on what to wear, what to do, how to be. They are lewd, deprave.

It is not a sin to sexually be attracted to someone etc, but yes to act on them is being lewd. But homosexuals are gone way off, it is sickening. Even the Prophet did not care for them, so treated them differently from people who had hetrosexual relationships outside of marriage to them. Yes they can repent, but people seem to treat them as being innocent when they are anything but.
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Vigno
09-18-2010, 04:29 AM
Originally Posted by h-n
The sexual desires are from the Devils, you can tell the difference because;-

1. One is just about having sex - which is why people are willing to have sex with someone whom they don't know the name of.
2. The other is about having a sexual "relationship" were the focus is more on spending time looking at each other etc, actually wanting to be with that person, because you are attracted to that person (which is were Point 1 lacks as it just talks about having sex with someone regardless of whatever you see in that person, which is also why people after having casual sex wouldn't even dream of marrying that person etc ).

It is so worse today, were much focus in on Point 1.

In Paradise;-

Everyone is looking good, you can't just say you want to have sex with that person, and that person and that person etc. So its about being mature, responsible etc. A Married woman in Paradise is not going to spend time looking at the good-looking men around her wishing she was also having sex with them as well rather then having sex with her husband. That is why there is a quote that women will be happy just looking at their husbands.

Males are just listening to society, society just says its normal that Males want to have sex, so the Males just play along with that, because they get what they want, so they don't bother standing up for themselves. It is a tip, even females aren't listening to Marriage, Men, how many Males actually told them to wear mini-skirts etc? Hardly, or never, actually females are listening to other females on how they should dress to have Males sexually like them. Leading them to act and behave lewd. They are happy to follow other lewd females examples by dressing badly, going to nightclubs etc, even at School if someone has a boyfriend, there are females who have said that they wanted a "boyfriend", anyway this is going a bit off topic, but it goes to show that people are following the crowd even in relationships on what to wear, what to do, how to be. They are lewd, deprave.

It is not a sin to sexually be attracted to someone etc, but yes to act on them is being lewd. But homosexuals are gone way off, it is sickening. Even the Prophet did not care for them, so treated them differently from people who had hetrosexual relationships outside of marriage to them. Yes they can repent, but people seem to treat them as being innocent when they are anything but.
I agree to your points, its such a miserable life they are living out there. Can't think of anything but sex, like they were born for it.
Sex is a part of "married life" but its not life itself yet its going upside down these days and it keeps getting worse.
However, Allah swt lets them enjoy what they want in this world and then in the end all will get what they deserve inshallah and none is treated unfairly.

So why do we even care upset ourselves, when we are following what Allah swt wants alhamdulilah and staying away from devil's ways then those who go astray are of no concern to us, they only harm themselves.

Yes its our job to tell them about the truth, but not push them to it, if they accept our calls to the truth then alhamdulilah that's good, if not then our duty has been fulfilled and their case is at Allah's hands then.
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LauraS
09-18-2010, 03:02 PM
I've never rejected Islam, you have Christians telling your their way is the truth Muslims saying it's theirs. Then all other religions believe 100% that they are right. But there's not concrete proof that any are the truth. It'a not hard to agree with the teachings of any religion because at the core they are about leading a good life, but agreeing with the teachings and believing in God are two different things, I've never had any experiences that tell me Allah is real. Even if I did suddenly discover there is a God I wouldn't suddenly see gay people, who I've known for years, as evil.
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Vigno
09-18-2010, 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
I've never rejected Islam, you have Christians telling your their way is the truth Muslims saying it's theirs. Then all other religions believe 100% that they are right. But there's not concrete proof that any are the truth. It'a not hard to agree with the teachings of any religion because at the core they are about leading a good life, but agreeing with the teachings and believing in God are two different things, I've never had any experiences that tell me Allah is real. Even if I did suddenly discover there is a God I wouldn't suddenly see gay people, who I've known for years, as evil.
All I can say is, "humans need to open their eyes" and that won't happen until the heart that is connected to all parts is opened.
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LauraS
09-18-2010, 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by Vigno
All I can say is, "humans need to open their eyes" and that won't happen until the heart that is connected to all parts is opened.
I've never closed my heart to the idea there is a God.
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Vigno
09-18-2010, 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
I've never closed my heart to the idea there is a God.
That's good, so you have a start, may you be guided.
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h-n
09-18-2010, 06:21 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
I've never rejected Islam, you have Christians telling your their way is the truth Muslims saying it's theirs. Then all other religions believe 100% that they are right. But there's not concrete proof that any are the truth. It'a not hard to agree with the teachings of any religion because at the core they are about leading a good life, but agreeing with the teachings and believing in God are two different things, I've never had any experiences that tell me Allah is real. Even if I did suddenly discover there is a God I wouldn't suddenly see gay people, who I've known for years, as evil.
Its a pity that your making the same mistakes as other non-Muslims, they are quick to write (what we have already heard), then actually read. Were ask the questions instead of quoting homosexuals-where there places are in Hell, no Prophets accepted them and they are the best of Men, do you think you have more compassion then the Prophets? Of course not.

Your just think that your "being kind" when accepting evil. As per the "Freedom and evil acceptance" thread. Well its pathetic, as even there are plenty of evil people that care more about offending other evil people rather then accepting what Allah has taught them.

What did you think? That Allah was going to;-

-allow the homosexuals to enter Paradise???
-to allow homosexuality to be acceptable in Paradise??

I will post the Love, love say the Christians (but I say that they are liars) thread again (which I will not post on there incase of anymore derailment), which no Christian, the Jewish Problem (which is in the comparitive section) Jew has refuted neither have the refuted the "Islam has copied (say the Christian and the Jews)", nor "Why Prophet Jesus peace be upon him does NOT love the Chrsitians" or the thread on "Allah" on why he does NOT have children, nor have the Atheist have refuted the "No such thing as Athesim" So instead of quoting the same rubbish, I suggest you read it. Also as per my other threads Non-Muslims and Islam, Sinners being destroyed a good job too! thread, shows that everyone has a fair test and they ALL KNOW that Allah exists. I'll bump up some of the threads for you. I don't believe anyone who say they don't know that God exists, because Allah provides a fair test. You already cannot name anyone better then the Prophets-then why is this if they don't mean anything to you?

I have already spoken to Christians, Jews, Atheists etc, and they have shown that they believe in nothing except falsehood. The Chrsitians have avoided answering the points and choose to ignore them.

There is only one God, the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell.

Allah sends Prophets to tell people the message to worship the one God. So Prophets Noah, Lut, Moses, Muhammad, Jesus peace be upon them did not come with a different message.

We talk about the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him more as we had benefited from his direct teachings, BUT we make no distinctions between the Prophets.

So I expect you to read around, before placing comments befitting of Devils.
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h-n
09-18-2010, 06:29 PM
Originally Posted by Vigno
I agree to your points, its such a miserable life they are living out there. Can't think of anything but sex, like they were born for it.
Sex is a part of "married life" but its not life itself yet its going upside down these days and it keeps getting worse.
However, Allah swt lets them enjoy what they want in this world and then in the end all will get what they deserve inshallah and none is treated unfairly.

So why do we even care upset ourselves, when we are following what Allah swt wants alhamdulilah and staying away from devil's ways then those who go astray are of no concern to us, they only harm themselves.

Yes its our job to tell them about the truth, but not push them to it, if they accept our calls to the truth then alhamdulilah that's good, if not then our duty has been fulfilled and their case is at Allah's hands then.

I agree, I'm just letting her know that its unacceptable to waste time talking about the way of the Devil, we already know of it, why don't she spend more time learning about Islam. Anyhow taking a long break, so take care everyone.

Sister h-n
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Insecured soul
09-18-2010, 09:02 PM
Assalam alaikum warehmatullah

To our muslim brothers and sisters doing "amar-bil-maroof wa Nahi-anil-munker" (Enjoining good and forbidding evil) there is a condition which goes with it and i.e. not to increase them in thier (evil doing / forbidden things).

Hope everyone has that in mind, i am no good with words but surely prophets didnt agree with homosexuality and evil things, i see some people and some goverments have given rights to homosexuality and even allowed same sex marriage.

Know one thing such people and government will never accept the word of allah (islam) and they will accept everything (homosexuality) this is how the system of shaitan (devil) is design to make evil things good and good things bad.

Allah azzawajal might forgive homosexuals on the day of judgement, we can never know, he might punish as well its all upto allah.
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LauraS
09-18-2010, 09:15 PM
h-n I'm not being kind by "accepting evil" because I don't see homosexuals as evil.
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Vigno
09-18-2010, 10:11 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
h-n I'm not being kind by "accepting evil" because I don't see homosexuals as evil.
Could you explain your view of them please? Then I will explain mine inshallah.
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LauraS
09-19-2010, 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by Vigno
Could you explain your view of them please? Then I will explain mine inshallah.
I've put elsewhere that I think in many cases it is something that it is something people are born as which is why gay men appear feminine and gay women masculine. Have you hears stories where parent knew their children were gay before they even came out? That's why I think for some it is unavoidable and just the way they are. I haven't got a clue what the science behind it is but maybe someday we'll know, whether it's to do with the brain or whatever. I believe there is a scientific explanation somewhere though.
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Vigno
09-19-2010, 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
I've put elsewhere that I think in many cases it is something that it is something people are born as which is why gay men appear feminine and gay women masculine. Have you hears stories where parent knew their children were gay before they even came out? That's why I think for some it is unavoidable and just the way they are. I haven't got a clue what the science behind it is but maybe someday we'll know, whether it's to do with the brain or whatever. I believe there is a scientific explanation somewhere though.
Having such a feeling is something, and acting upon it is something else. For example, someone sees an apple infront of him which is rotten, but he has some love for rotten things, others surely don't.
Now he can neither control nor stop this feeling of attraction towards the apple but, he could stop himself from going to it and eating it.
This choice is the same with everything, experiencing feelings might not be of someone's power, but as soon as he or she act upon it, then the blame comes.

In Islam it is forbidden for men to look at the private parts of men and the same with women looking at that of other women. What I mean by private parts is not only the reproductive parts but also any part that causes a person to get attracted. This is to avoid such feelings from arousing.
So the presence of such feelings is not new or not normal with some people, but it SHOULD be controlled and avoided.

You are welcome to give further comments.
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LauraS
09-19-2010, 06:42 PM
But this is why I don't see it as a sin or something evil because to me it is something almost medical that causes it. Something while the foetus is developing perhaps. It's just they way they are, straight people may not be comfrotable with and can't imagine loving someone of the same sex but they can't help how they are. Yes they may decide not to act upon their feelings but this could make them spend a lifetime of unhappiness when they could instead just accept who they are and live with a same sex partner. In certain cases there might no point lying to themselves and living as a straight person when they aren't really attracted to them.

I haven't grown up being told homosexuality is evil and just wrong, where if you are deeply religious you would have been, so I suppose we can read each other opinions but never expect to agree. :S
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Vigno
09-19-2010, 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
I haven't grown up being told homosexuality is evil and just wrong, where if you are deeply religious you would have been, so I suppose we can read each other opinions but never expect to agree. :S
I suppose you are right, it doesn't seem there is a chance of agreement in this matter.
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LauraS
09-19-2010, 06:57 PM
But it's nice talking to you and having a polite discussion. :) Often it's not so polite lol.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
09-19-2010, 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
so I suppose we can read each other opinions but never expect to agree. :S
You may not agree, but the truth is out there!
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Vigno
09-20-2010, 05:11 AM
Originally Posted by LauraS
But it's nice talking to you and having a polite discussion. :) Often it's not so polite lol.
I must say you are right, it gets really aggressive here at times, or many times actually. Its just that our strong belief screens our mind and we get drifted with our hearts and let loose harsh words.

So my apologies to you and everyone on this forum if I ever said anything that is not polite or offensive.

Also I request from forum members to be more wise and not attack with words no matter what is said. You can't teach someone something by embarrassing or offending him or her.

If anyone wants to say something, he or she should say it as an advice and not as an order, and be gentle.

Thank you
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