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bhakti
09-18-2010, 02:30 PM
Wish everyone (Muslim and non-Muslim alike) tried looking at things this way. Mother Earth would be so much more beautiful.

iviews.com/Articles/articles.asp?ref=IC1008-4257
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Insaanah
09-18-2010, 03:15 PM
This article has no validity for us.

We don't take our religion from reformist writers, nor from Sufi Mystics (who are way off the mark with regards to the concept of God).

Neither does a Muslim take the view that they should pray to, or via, or at, the graves of so-called saints: "Also, Muslims go and pray at graves of sufi saints and seek their intervention." This is actually completely forbidden for us. Then he says: "Thus for a common Hindu an idol becomes a sheikh, an intervener."

There are no interveners in Islam. We worship Allah directly.

Peace.
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bhakti
09-18-2010, 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
This article has no validity for us.

We don't take our religion from reformist writers, nor from Sufi Mystics (who are way off the mark with regards to the concept of God).

Neither does a Muslim take the view that they should pray to, or via, or at, the graves of so-called saints: "Also, Muslims go and pray at graves of sufi saints and seek their intervention." This is actually completely forbidden for us. Then he says: "Thus for a common Hindu an idol becomes a sheikh, an intervener."

There are no interveners in Islam. We worship Allah directly.

Peace.
A few weeks back I had been to Mumbai and paid yet another visit to Haji Ali the famous and beautiful Dargah, the tomb of the saint Sayed Peer Haji Ali Shah Bukhari. Muslims and Hindus alike throng this place in huge numbers to pay their respects to this saint coz saints are just saints. They don't confine themselves to any religion.

It always warms my heart to visit this place just seeing all these people of different faiths finding a common meeting point. A place where everyone finds joy and solace from the continuous grind of busy life regardless of religious faiths. Where nobody looks down upon another just coz he or she is of a different religious affiliation.

Don't you think it is important to allow this brotherhood in the Dargas to flourish unimpeded by narrow religious dogma of what is allowed and what is not?
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'Abd Al-Maajid
09-18-2010, 06:15 PM
^ Our friend needs to know something about tombs. In Islam there is no place for Dargahs/tombs. I believe they should be razed to the ground. They are not an Islamic monument. In fact a tomb whether it may be of a saint or a scholar or a common man should be at ground level.
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Insaanah
09-18-2010, 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by bhakti
Where nobody looks down upon another just coz he or she is of a different religious affiliation.
Such friendship happens in streets, neighbourhoods, schools and workplaces throughout the world.

Originally Posted by bhakti
Don't you think it is important to allow this brotherhood in the Dargas to flourish
No. Friendship doesn't need graves to flourish.

Originally Posted by bhakti
unimpeded by narrow religious dogma of what is allowed and what is not?
If you call mainstream Islam "narrow religious dogma" then so be it. You are not the first and probably won't be the last. People who don't like/understand/or who disagree with the clear guidelines laid down by Islam tend to say this.

Peace.
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bhakti
09-19-2010, 05:39 AM
The bond that common faith brings is far deeper than what happens in workplaces. I'm sure you will agree.

Also, I find comments about razing Dargahs down to be very insensitive and rash. I hope you don't mean it literally. Do you realize how many people's hearts and faiths you would be breaking? How would you feel if someone razed down your local mosque just coz they found it to be in discord to their own rules of living?

Are Islamic rules enough reason to break the hearts of people? After all, what is Islam if not for its people?

The trees need to be happy for the forest to flourish. I wouldn't call cutting down trees in the cause of the forest a very prudent thing to do.
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'Abd Al-Maajid
09-19-2010, 05:46 AM
I know how I felt when A MOSQUE was razed to the ground and it was no even a local mosque it was a mosque in which I never prayed yet It was truly heart breaking only because it is an Islamic monument. As I said earlier Tombs/dargahs are not Islamic buildings. We should get rid of these things as we get rid of poisonous ivies and weeds in farms.
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'Abd Al-Maajid
09-19-2010, 05:50 AM
Originally Posted by bhakti
It always warms my heart to visit this place just seeing all these people of different faiths finding a common meeting point. A place where everyone finds joy and solace from the continuous grind of busy life regardless of religious faiths. Where nobody looks down upon another just coz he or she is of a different religious affiliation.
This harmony can also be found everywhere. People don't kill each other elsewhere.
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bhakti
09-19-2010, 11:47 AM
Originally Posted by abdulmājid
I know how I felt when A MOSQUE was razed to the ground and it was no even a local mosque it was a mosque in which I never prayed yet It was truly heart breaking only because it is an Islamic monument. As I said earlier Tombs/dargahs are not Islamic buildings. We should get rid of these things as we get rid of poisonous ivies and weeds in farms.
But thats the whole point. If you are caused pain when buildings that you hold dear to you are razed down....how can you be immune to the pain you might cause to other people? Whether they are islamic or not, there are people that have emotions attached to these buildings and they cannot be trivialized. Aren't they as much human as you?

Temples and churches too are non islamic. Would the razing down of these buildings not cause pain to the followers of the respective religions? And how can you not be pained when you see the pain of your fellow human beings?
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bhakti
09-19-2010, 11:49 AM
Originally Posted by abdulmājid
This harmony can also be found everywhere. People don't kill each other elsewhere.
I repeat. The bond that common faith brings is far deeper than what happens in workplaces. I'm sure you will agree.
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Insaanah
09-19-2010, 12:56 PM
Originally Posted by bhakti
The bond that common faith brings is far deeper than what happens in workplaces. I'm sure you will agree.
Originally Posted by bhakti
I repeat. The bond that common faith brings is far deeper than what happens in workplaces. I'm sure you will agree.
You were talking about different faiths, if I recall correctly:

Originally Posted by bhakti
It always warms my heart to visit this place just seeing all these people of different faiths finding a common meeting point. A place where everyone finds joy and solace from the continuous grind of busy life regardless of religious faiths. Where nobody looks down upon another just coz he or she is of a different religious affiliation.

Originally Posted by bhakti
Are Islamic rules enough reason to break the hearts of people? After all, what is Islam if not for its people?
Islam is not like other religions where you can bend or change the rules, nay even the main teachings, and still insist it's fine, as long as people are happy. We obey our Creator, and the teachings of His Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), unadulterated, and we find unmatched happiness, serenity and peace in our heart through that.

Peace.
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'Abd Al-Maajid
09-19-2010, 01:22 PM
Originally Posted by bhakti
But thats the whole point. If you are caused pain when buildings that you hold dear to you are razed down....how can you be immune to the pain you might cause to other people? Whether they are islamic or not, there are people that have emotions attached to these buildings and they cannot be trivialized. Aren't they as much human as you?
Yes, you are right. I have no right to hurt people's feelings. I am not immune to other peoples' pain or sentiments.
But cast all the emotions which makes you go against Islamic teachings (muslims only).

Originally Posted by bhakti
Temples and churches too are non islamic. Would the razing down of these buildings not cause pain to the followers of the respective religions? And how can you not be pained when you see the pain of your fellow human beings?
Temples and Churches are not Islamic buildings but also they don't claim to be run by Muslims. Hindus and Christians have their right to practice and propagate their religion.

If any Muslim is too attached to tombs/dargah let them be and invent another religion in which they invoke the saint buried there but don't claim to be Muslims and come to mosques.

Yes, I am being too harsh on them! I am only being harsh on the Hypocrites. Who claim to be muslims but are deviating from the true path.
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bhakti
09-19-2010, 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
You were talking about different faiths, if I recall correctly
I also said "common meeting point". People of different faiths finding some kind of faith that's common to both.
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bhakti
09-19-2010, 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by abdulmājid
Yes, you are right. I have no right to hurt people's feelings. I am not immune to other peoples' pain or sentiments.
I love what you said! :)

All the best!
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'Abd Al-Maajid
09-19-2010, 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by bhakti
I love what you said! :)

All the best!
Thank you brother. I hope you have a wider perspective towards Islam and you visit a mosque, madarsah or an Islamic center rather than visiting tombs/dargah. :)

All the best to you too.
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bhakti
09-19-2010, 05:52 PM
Originally Posted by abdulmājid

Thank you brother. I hope you have a wider perspective towards Islam and you visit a mosque, madarsah or an Islamic center rather than visiting tombs/dargah. :)

All the best to you too.
Of course! I would love to do that. But maybe my perspective is a bit too wide...hehe!

I don't generally find anything different between places of worship of all religions. After all, everyone is simply trying to connect to God in his/her own personal style!
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'Aleena
09-20-2010, 05:02 AM
Salam,

Bhakti, by reading ur posts it seems to me that u value religious tolerance and that is worth appreciating.

Originally Posted by bhakti
everyone is simply trying to connect to God in his/her own personal style!
True. But what if God does not like to be worshipped by different means... what if He has forbidden mankind to try to connect with Him through idols and mediumship...
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bhakti
09-20-2010, 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by k.aleena
Salam,

Bhakti, by reading ur posts it seems to me that u value religious tolerance and that is worth appreciating.


True. But what if God does not like to be worshipped by different means... what if He has forbidden mankind to try to connect with Him through idols and mediumship...
Forgive me, but I would never be able to understand why a perfect God would want someone to worship him at all, leave alone him wanting to be worshipped in a certain particular way and prohibit other ways. All he would want is for his children to co-exist peacefully. Just like a selfless parent who would shower all his love on his kids and expect nothing in return except for their happiness.

Like I've mentioned in another thread, worship is necessary for man to tune himself to the divine and not vice versa. Thus, any kind of worship that brings to the devotee satisfaction, joy and a sense of divine levity would suit the purpose.
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'Aleena
09-21-2010, 06:28 AM
Originally Posted by bhakti
I would never be able to understand why a perfect God would want someone to worship him at all
You have closed your mind. So there is no point in discussing...
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