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جوري
10-17-2010, 03:52 PM
Study: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids




AOL News
(Oct. 17) -- Walter Schumm knows what he's about to do is unpopular: publish a study arguing that gay parents are more likely to raise gay children than straight parents. But the Kansas State University family studies professor has a detailed analysis that past almost aggressively ideological researchers never had.

When one such researcher, Paul Cameron, published a paper in 2006 arguing that children of gay parents were more likely to be gay themselves, the response from the academic press was virulent, to say nothing of the popular press; the Southern Poverty Law Center, for instance, equated Cameron to a Nazi.

Not all of the vitriol was hyperbolic. Cameron does not tolerate gay people. He believes that "homosexual practice is injurious to society."

The gay press, as far back as the 1980s, labeled Cameron "the most dangerous anti-gay voice in America." Though Cameron was the first to publish papers on the dangers of secondhand smoke, the scientific community has abandoned him. The American Psychological Association long since dropped him from its membership for an "ethical" violation.

Today, Cameron is the founder and chairman of the Family Research Institute, whose "overriding mission" is to publish "empirical research on issues that threaten the traditional family, particularly homosexuality."

Schumm doesn't go for that sort of research. After Cameron's 2006 paper, Schumm listened as the academic community stated certainty of two things: Cameron was an idiotic bigot; and the existing literature showed little to no societal, cultural or parental influence on sexual orientation.

Schumm began investigating the second premise. "I just want to know the truth about something," he tells AOL News. And he found it strange that parents can influence so many facets of their children's lives -- but not in any way their sexual orientation.

Lawyers for the state of Florida heard of Schumm's fledgling research and invited him in 2008 to testify in a case. The state's Department of Children and Families was attempting to uphold a ban on gay and lesbian parents adopting children. Schumm's testimony actually ended up aiding the gay parents in the trial.

He said: "Gay parents can be good foster parents," and "The decision to permit homosexuals to adopt is best made by the judiciary on a case by case basis."

Schumm tells AOL News that he agreed to testify as one of the state's witnesses only if his evidence was not "slanted" for or against gay rights.

But also in his testimony was an inkling of the robust research Schumm has just completed. His study on sexual orientation, out next month, says that gay and lesbian parents are far more likely to have children who become gay. "I'm trying to prove that it's not 100 percent genetic," Schumm tells AOL News.

His study is a meta-analysis of existing work. First, Schumm extrapolated data from 10 books on gay parenting; Cameron, for what it's worth, had only looked at three, and offered no statistical analysis in his paper. Schumm skewed his data so that only self-identified gay and lesbian children would be labeled as such.

This is important because sometimes Schumm would come across a passage of children of gay parents who said they were "adamant about not declaring their sexual orientation at all." These people would be labeled straight, even though the passage's implication was that they were gay.

Schumm concluded that children of lesbian parents identified themselves as gay 31 percent of the time; children of gay men had gay children 19 percent of the time, and children of a lesbian mother and gay father had at least one gay child 25 percent of the time.

Furthermore, when the study restricted the results so that they included only children in their 20s -- presumably after they'd been able to work out any adolescent confusion or experimentation -- 58 percent of the children of lesbians called themselves gay, and 33 percent of the children of gay men called themselves gay. (About 5 to 10 percent of the children of straight parents call themselves gay, Schumm says.)

Schumm next went macro, poring over an anthropological study of various cultures' acceptance of homosexuality. He found that when communities welcome gays and lesbians, "89 percent feature higher rates of homosexual behavior."

Finally, Schumm looked at the existing academic studies, the ones used to pillory Cameron's work. In all there are 26 such studies. Schumm ran the numbers from them and concluded that, surprisingly, 20 percent of the kids of gay parents were gay themselves. When children only 17 or older were included in the analysis, 28 percent were gay.

Abbie Goldberg is a psychology professor at Clark University, and the author of "Lesbian and Gay Parents and Their Children: Research on the Family Life Cycle," which this year won the Distinguished Book Award from the APA. She hasn't read Schumm's study, only seen the abstract. But she says, in general, that a meta-analysis of this nature relies on sample sizes that are often too small and may furthermore brim with participants whose perspective is firmly aligned with the LGBT community. In other words, they're aware of these sorts of studies and seek them out.

"The fundamental problem with this [type of meta-analysis] is such samples tend to be biased," Goldberg tells AOL News.

Schumm says he guarded against that by seeking out so many different works. And across all his data -- the 10 books he consulted, the anthropological study, the scientific articles -- he noticed how lesbians begat more lesbians. In Schumm's study, he quotes from the extant literature the stories of young women, describing how being gay was never frowned upon in their household, and so that "option" was available to them. That said, Schumm also finds evidence of gay mothers pushing their daughters, upset over a relationship with a man, to "try out women."

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But couldn't gay men also tell their sons this? Yes, but Schumm tells AOL News that most gay men have at some point been with a woman, so they understand why their sons might date them. Whereas the literature shows some lesbians "have a hatred of men that's intense," Schumm says.

Schumm says it shouldn't have taken until 2010 to do the meta-analysis. Too often his colleagues impose "liberal or progressive political interpretations" on their studies, which inhibit further inquiry. "It's kind of sad," he tells AOL News.

As if expecting a political backlash himself, Schumm concludes his study with a quote from philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer. "All truth passes through three stages: First it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

http://www.aolnews.com/science/artic...-kids/19668089
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'Abd Al-Maajid
10-17-2010, 05:09 PM
:sl:
How can a homosexual couple have children? :?
:wa:
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جوري
10-17-2010, 05:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by abdulmājid
How can a homosexual couple have children?
they adopt or get donor egg or donor sperm a surrogate womb..
They want to fulfill the laws of nature as there is no escaping the human condition but in a skewed fashion!

:w:
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Ezekiel_B
10-17-2010, 05:13 PM
Gay parents creating gay children = one of the biggest myths surrounding the subject of homosexuality.

Next you'll be saying AIDS is their fault.
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جوري
10-17-2010, 05:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel_B
Gay parents creating gay children = one of the biggest myths surrounding the subject of homosexuality. Next you'll be saying AIDS is their fault.
A 'study' by its very definition is a detailed scientific piece and subject to analysis that can be cross referenced with existing data and numerical values. Perhaps when you familiarize yourself with facts and how science works in general in lieu of blind emotionality you'd not be making such a fool of yourself on every thread. Also this has nothing to do with AIDS?HIV or any disease that plagues the gay population. This study purely looks at the percentage of gay parents who also beget gay off-spring.

all the best
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Ezekiel_B
10-18-2010, 11:57 AM
And if the study shows that this is the case - what's it to you?
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Alpha Dude
10-18-2010, 12:00 PM
I feel sorry for all those children who end up raised by gay parents.

It must be a trauma. Being bullied must be the norm for them.
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Ezekiel_B
10-18-2010, 12:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bedouin
I feel sorry for all those children who end up raised by gay parents.

It must be a trauma. Being bullied must be the norm for them.
Yes - and what about heterosexual parents who have a gay child? Do they not sometimes try to influence the child's sexual orientation?

If we can show that sexuality is dependent to some degree on the level of parental sex hormones and that there are other factors involved, then we might say it is a case of nature + nurture.

I'd be interested to know how you regard heterosexual parents, who deny their child's sexuality and attempt to push their orientation upon them?

For me, the questions are very clear. Supposing this study successfully proves what Walter Schumm theorises? What kind of other conclusions are we expected to draw from it?

You see - while it might be interesting - a biological study like this would have no actual bearing on a society which champions the right of the individual to act upon their preferences, regardless of whether those preferences be biologically inherited or learned.

Unless we're all agreed that homosexuality is wrong, evil, dangerous, immoral, detrimental to the health (or whatever other non-rational interpretation we care to expound) then of prime importance here would be to examine the level of actual choice young people are given as they enter puberty, as given to them by their parents.

In fact, if it were to uncover an element of pushing (to be gay or straight - either way) by the parents, then this would also go for those heterosexual parents who have begotten, quite by chance, their own biological child who is prone to be gay.

In which case, such a finding might go some way towards making society a better place for these people - but only if the results are used in that way.
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Ezekiel_B
10-18-2010, 12:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bedouin
I feel sorry for all those children who end up raised by gay parents.

It must be a trauma. Being bullied must be the norm for them.
Yes, well... surely, in that case, it's of prime importance to address that bullying and put a stop to it... don't you think?
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Alpha Dude
10-18-2010, 01:04 PM
Yes - and what about heterosexual parents who have a gay child? Do they not sometimes try to influence the child's sexual orientation?
Ezekial, you're on a forum frequented by religious people who hold that homosexuality is a sin and don't really consider it something people are 'born' with. You should respect this view, as it is very unlikely to change.

Of course straight parents will influence their children to be straight too. Those relgious parents who consider it a sin in the first place, will undoubtedly teach their kids the same. I, as a Muslim (and I believe most of the Muslims here included), will not cosider anything wrong with this approach. This is something you simply will have to agree to disagree on.

Yes, well... surely, in that case, it's of prime importance to address that bullying and put a stop to it... don't you think?
Obviously, the bullying is not on.
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Woodrow
10-18-2010, 02:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel_B
Yes, well... surely, in that case, it's of prime importance to address that bullying and put a stop to it... don't you think?
Sadly bullying will never be stopped by legislation. It can only be stopped by education and giving people valid reasons not to bully. However, the potential for a person becoming a target for bullies can be reduced through legislation by eliminating the possibility of Gay couples to adopt or be surrogate parents.

Why would that be an unfair law. Does it differ from the law that requires intermarried cousins to not have children, in most states that allow cousins to marry?
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Ezekiel_B
10-18-2010, 08:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bedouin
Ezekial, you're on a forum frequented by religious people who hold that homosexuality is a sin and don't really consider it something people are 'born' with. You should respect this view, as it is very unlikely to change.
I'm sorry... I don't quite understand. How does the unlikelyness of a view to change make it respectable? Just curious.
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Ezekiel_B
10-18-2010, 08:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
the potential for a person becoming a target for bullies can be reduced through legislation by eliminating the possibility of Gay couples to adopt or be surrogate parents.
Why, yes! That is of course quite correct! Thousands of muslims come into the UK each year and sometimes they are bullied by racist skinheads. Tell me, which would be a better option in your estimation... Deal with the skinheads or eliminate the possibility of muslims migrating to the UK? I mean, the latter would protect them from bullying... erm... wouldn't it?
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Alpha Dude
10-18-2010, 08:30 PM
Say you were an avid PC fan. Would you go to a forum of Mac users and say, 'you should stop liking macs becuase I believe it is wrong'?
No, you wouldn't (unless you are a troll).

Any stay you have on a Mac forum ought to be one of cordial 'agreement to disagree'. Same thing here. You think homosexuality is ok? Fine, good for you. Muslims abide by Islamic law and Islamic law considers it a sin. It is unlikely that anything you say would alter the legal position on this matter. So what are you left to do but agree to disagree? Anything else on your part is simply disrespectful and down right rude. It's manners, I call for.
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Ezekiel_B
10-18-2010, 08:31 PM
Now don't get me wrong here... I'd rather deal with the racists. Now... tell me... do you respect that view?
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Ezekiel_B
10-18-2010, 08:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bedouin
Say you were an avid PC fan. Would you go to a forum of Mac users and say, 'you should stop liking macs becuase I believe it is wrong'?
Oh, I see your point. Some people really DO make love to their Macs... don't they...?
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Alpha Dude
10-18-2010, 09:13 PM
Look man, simple manners wouldn't go amiss. Granted, Mac exmaple was poor. Didn't have much time cos I had to dash. Can't you see that you are simply insulting our religion by telling us 'hey, guess what? this shouldn't really be a sin'. Can you really not see how that is considered rude? I can understand if you were talking to your buddies but to our faces, in our 'home', you come and insult what we believe. Really poor manners.

Now don't get me wrong here... I'd rather deal with the racists. Now... tell me... do you respect that view?
Of course I'd have no problem with you dealing with racists. Why would I?
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جوري
10-18-2010, 10:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel_B
And if the study shows that this is the case - what's it to you?
What do you care what it is to me? This is the health and science section, meant to engage amongst other things new research of whatever nature that is making current news!
Do you know how to articulate your needs or just enjoy wasting web space?
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جوري
10-18-2010, 10:28 PM
I wish folks would stay on topic, This thread is about statistics dealing with homosexuality-- Not bullying! I believe a bullying thread already exists. Please delete off topic posts!

:w:
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Muhaba
10-18-2010, 10:34 PM
i thought the mac example was pretty good. everybody is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. Ezekiel, you're insulting muslims coming here, telling us what we should believe and what we shouldn't. haven't you got anything better to do?

i don't know what the point of this discussion is. I haven't read all the posts but i think it's a useless discussion.
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جوري
10-18-2010, 10:38 PM
The whole point of the thread is that there is NO genetic component to homosexuality.. not that we ever thought there was, but now it is backed by numbers!

I do agree that kid needs to be banned but for different reasons, being that this is a mature forum and I hate to take every topic down to some low denominator because some kid aged 11 and is capable of a puerile unsophisticated independent thought and youthful zeal to go with it.

:w:
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Muhaba
10-18-2010, 10:48 PM
Alhamdulillah that science is now proving what muslims (and followers of some other religions) always believed. The Quran shows how the nation of Lut A.S. was punished for engaging in homosexuality. That shows that not only is homosexuality not a genetic condition but also that people can stop being homos. otherwise God wouldn't have sent Prophet Lut A.S to try to stop the people from this filthy act. In time, insha-Allah that will also be proven scientifically.

Ezekiel doesn't seem like a kid but someone who has nothing better to do. (Did he write somewhere he was 11? I haven't read all his posts). maybe he's looking for conversation, which is why he keeps posting post after post. i wish he'd use the time in something useful, like learning something! I hate to pick on people, but he's becoming annoying.
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جوري
10-18-2010, 11:00 PM
maybe he isn't 11 temporally but certainly behaviorally he is.. I hate to come on board and find fifty posts of empty unrelated nonsense because someone wanted to have a public purge!

:w:
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Trumble
10-18-2010, 11:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
I wish folks would stay on topic, This thread is about statistics dealing with homosexuality-- Not bullying! I believe a bullying thread already exists. Please delete off topic posts!

:w:
There was, but it disappeared. I can understand it would make some folks feel uncomfortable to see the consequences of their 'own opinions and beliefs' rather than face up to them.

I see nothing 'immature' about Ezekiel_B's posts, and certainly nothing suggesting a ban. His 'offence' seems only to be making people uncomfortable in this thread.


"Sadly bullying will never be stopped by legislation. It can only be stopped by education and giving people valid reasons not to bully. However, the potential for a person becoming a target for bullies can be reduced through legislation by eliminating the possibility of Gay couples to adopt or be surrogate parents.

Why would that be an unfair law.
Because it attempts to ignore the real issue, homophobia, by denying rights to and interfering in the lives of certain people because, for whatever reason, you don't like who or what they are. Eliminate homophobia and you eliminate homophobic bullying. Deal with the cause, not the symptom.
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جوري
10-18-2010, 11:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
There was, but it disappeared. I can understand it would make some folks feel uncomfortable to see the consequences of their 'own opinions and beliefs' rather than face up to them.
I doubt very much the issue of comfort was behind the disappearance of said thread, else it wouldn't have been approved in the first place!
I see nothing 'immature' about Ezekiel_B's posts, and certaiinly nothing suggesting a ban. His 'offence' seems to be making people uncomfortable, just as in that other thread. For example,
Well of course you wouldn't ... but again, this isn't about the lack of maturity in his posts insofar as can be ascertained by most, however ludicrous they maybe, but rather in their lack of relation to the subject at hand!


Because it attempts to ignore the real issue, homophobia, by denying rights to and interfering in the lives of certain people because, for whatever reason, you don't like who or what they are. Eliminate homophobia and you eliminate homophobic bullying. Deal with the cause, not the symptom.
I don't know what your definition of homophobia is? As far as you tighten your confidence interval, simply refusing to take it up the ass makes one a homophobe, I think perhaps you have also implicated yourself in the process. No one here is advocating bullying to homos or heteros or even as a response to actual bullies.
Not espousing a life-style, believing that it is a sin doesn't equate to bullying nor does it equate to homophobia.
Every homosexual by your fickle definitions is as well a heterophobe!

all the best
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Ezekiel_B
10-18-2010, 11:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bedouin
Of course I'd have no problem with you dealing with racists. Why would I?
What if they were gay skinheads?
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Muhaba
10-18-2010, 11:33 PM
But what are the effects of homosexuals on the safety and freedom of heterosexuals. A lot of times homosexuals harrass heterosexuals, which may be the main reason why homos are bullied and even killed. I heard of a homo bothering a heterosexual co-worker and when the straight co-worker got angry and said he no longer wanted to work with the homo, he was accused of discriminating. but the thing is, if the homo hadn't told him he was gay, he'd never have known. why should gays have the right to preach their ways to other people? they aren't doing it to eliminate homophobia but to spread their way, find other partners etc. I heard of gays tellling male taxi drivers to spend time with them. that is wrong behavior and homos should be stopped from this sort of behavior, because they are infringing the rights of heterosexual people.

letting homos adopt children is harmful to the safety of the child which is why it should be stopped. Children have the right to live in a safe environment. Seeing their gay parents doing stuff will affect the child and that's not good for the child's sexual health.
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Ezekiel_B
10-18-2010, 11:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muhaba
But what are the effects of homosexuals on the safety and freedom of heterosexuals
Rare.

Where I live, some muslims shout abuse at anyone they think might be gay - whether they are or not. They've actually been known to attack gays as well. I've seen it, with my own eyes.

You cite one instance, I'll cite one as well.
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Ezekiel_B
10-18-2010, 11:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muhaba
Seeing their gay parents doing stuff will affect the child and that's not good for the child's sexual health.
Does your husband "do stuff with you" on the kitchen table, in front of the kids? No, thought not. Why do you assume gays will "do stuff" in front of theirs?
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Ezekiel_B
10-18-2010, 11:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muhaba
I heard of gays tellling male taxi drivers to spend time with them. that is wrong behavior and homos should be stopped from this sort of behavior, because they are infringing the rights of heterosexual people.
I was in a taxi once and the driver was a muslim. He asked me if I wanted a young boy, saying he could get me one, if I paid him.

You cite one instance, I cite one as well.
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Alpha Dude
10-18-2010, 11:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel_B
What if they were gay skinheads?
Eh what are you on about. None of this is relevant to anything.

Are you gay?
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Muhaba
10-18-2010, 11:52 PM
is that the only stuff couples do? what about hugging and kissing. in america people even kiss on the sidewalk, so it's very likely that they will do it in the house in front of children as well. If not all of them, then at least some. Don't you think gay couples kissing in front of their children will have an effect on the child's sexuality? Or do you think that they won't do that? or that it's their right to do it and who cares how the child's affected?
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جوري
10-18-2010, 11:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bedouin
Eh what are you on about. None of this is relevant to anything. Are you gay?
please just report this turd, his last two posts should be enough reason for a permanent!

:w:
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Muhaba
10-19-2010, 12:06 AM
he's truly beginning to be sickening.

format_quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel_B
I was in a taxi once and the driver was a muslim. He asked me if I wanted a young boy, saying he could get me one, if I paid him.

You cite one instance, I cite one as well.
Did you tell him you were gay?
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greenshirt
10-19-2010, 12:07 AM
Most studies produced have stated that being raised by gay parents does not increase likeliness of being LGBT ones-self. Given who published this study I must advise caution to the validity of it.

With this being said it should still be noted that homosexual acts are sinful in Islam. If someone has same sex attraction they should lower their gaze and receive the encouragement and support they need in order to keep their spirits high!
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جوري
10-19-2010, 12:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by greenshirt
Most studies produced have stated that being raised by gay parents does not increase likeliness of being LGBT ones-self. Given who published this study I must advise caution to the validity of it.

With this being said it should still be noted that homosexual acts are sinful in Islam. If someone has same sex attraction they should lower their gaze and receive the encouragement and support they need in order to keep their spirits high!
Whatever studies under strong lobbying that you speak of are in fact produced within the last couple of decades are in and of themselves at odds with prior studies, and accounts previously mentioned in the DSM-II. I suggest they should be taken with a grain of salt if word of mouth rather than an actual science goes into deciding what is or what isn't valid!

all the best
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Muhaba
10-19-2010, 12:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by greenshirt
Most studies produced have stated that being raised by gay parents does not increase likeliness of being LGBT ones-self. Given who published this study I must advise caution to the validity of it.
That is why, in the past at least, homoerotic behavior was prohibited in the united states and children's books are watched by people/organizations who make sure that wrong things don't enter children's books because they are so easily affected. *sarcasm*
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Ramadhan
10-19-2010, 04:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
I see nothing 'immature' about Ezekiel_B's posts, and certainly nothing suggesting a ban. His 'offence' seems only to be making people uncomfortable in this thread.
I don't expect much from the intelligence of people who claim there is no god, but I expect you to at least be able to read.

In other threads too, he called other posters "idiot" "savage", etc. and resorting to nothing else but swearing and rantings.

Good thing posters have complained and the mods have removed most of them, so he certainly deserves to be banned.

He does not make people "uncomfortable" as you said, because all I have seen from him is whining and cursing. It is annoying.
and we all know that any annoying pests must be exterminated.
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Ramadhan
10-19-2010, 04:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel_B
I was in a taxi once and the driver was a muslim. He asked me if I wanted a young boy, saying he could get me one, if I paid him.

Wanna hear a story?

I walked into a church one day, and the priest whispered to my ear
"hey, you wanna some nice piece of little white boy's ass?"
Reply

Woodrow
10-27-2010, 12:53 PM
:sl:

This is a forum, not a battlefield. If people can't leave their wars at the door, the door gets locked.
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