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purple
11-02-2010, 04:03 PM
salm
I hve overall impression 4om my community dat dey rather hve der women stay at home. I also sense dis 4om other forums but i wnt 2 knw wat brothers fink and feel abut dis. Also wat sisters feel and fink abut dis?

Brothers n Sisters? Do u fink women shld get education and drive? And also 2 be able 2 wrk?
(I wnt 2 do a poll bt not sure if i cn. Can admin do da polls for me plz? sorry abut my poor english):embarrass
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purple
11-02-2010, 04:09 PM
I dnt wnt no arguments. Just state ur views and reasons for it. Every1 is entitle to hve an opinion and jsut wnted an overall picture.
Reply

S.Belle
11-02-2010, 05:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
Do u fink women shld get education

yes bc in Islam we are told to seek knowledge regardless of your gender


format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
and drive?

I personally could care less if the entire world banned women from driving because I hate to drive.


format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
And also 2 be able 2 wrk?

We should but I think it really depends on the situation
Reply

Alpha Dude
11-02-2010, 05:55 PM
My opinion:

- Women should get an education, religious plus secular.
- Women should drive.
- Women should work if the situation necessitates it (for example, she could be a single mother without anybody to support her or a need for a female GP may have arisen in the community, etc.).

I realise nowadays that the economic climate is such that both men and women are somewhat forced to work. I wouldn't place any blame on women who work prior to marriage if they somehow need to but would not appreciate one who desires to work for the sake of it when she is married, with kids, to someone who can more than reasonably provide.

I would be against women who think of higher education and being in a successful job as though it is the be all and end all of life or they go to the extent as thinking that it somehow defines 'success' and subsequently look down upon housewives as lesser people. That is nothing but arrogance and supreme ignorance.

Working several hours a day so that she is never able to raise her own children and give them the proper tarbiyya that they deserve is not appropriate for a muslim mother and shows someone who has not got her priorities straight.

Being married and raising pious children is much more rewarding in the hereafter than going out chasing a career (and I deliberately say 'chase' here, to reflect on the mentality of feminist 'career women').
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Asiyah3
11-02-2010, 05:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
salm
I hve overall impression 4om my community dat dey rather hve der women stay at home. I also sense dis 4om other forums but i wnt 2 knw wat brothers fink and feel abut dis. Also wat sisters feel and fink abut dis?
:wa:

Work insha'Allah. But I'd like to stay home when I have children and until they're 7 insha'Allah.

Brothers n Sisters? Do u fink women shld get education
Yes.

and drive?
Yes, of course. Though I don't care if I'd be taken to where and when I want.
Reply

purple
11-02-2010, 06:12 PM
Thanks 4 da replies. Da ting wid necessitates, is dat women are half of da population thus there always will be necessitates unless women are meant 2 stay home all da tym. I fink muslim should stop saying necessitates.
If we were 2 be shortage of female gp as an example, it would tke years to produce other female gp 4 obvious reasons. So there shuldnt be a shortage of female gps in the 1st place. N wat is wrong wid female working for her own sake, is it haram. I honestly dnt knw. I gave up wrk to marry but dat didnt went well so back 2 wrk agen. N i was finking if i were to marry agen i wuldnt stop workin because i enjoy it. So it is haram 4 me to enjoy it work?

Reply

distressed
11-02-2010, 06:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
salm
I hve overall impression 4om my community dat dey rather hve der women stay at home. I also sense dis 4om other forums but i wnt 2 knw wat brothers fink and feel abut dis. Also wat sisters feel and fink abut dis?
Sis this is typical cultural thinking, i totally dont agree with any of it.


format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
Brothers n Sisters? Do u fink women shld get education and drive? And also 2 be able 2 wrk?
Education, work definately. I think its important a woman has independance, who knows what will happen in the future. Its good to plan ahead. I agree with what everyone else says,i know 2 sisters who are stuck in unhappy marriagess, they, just feel they are unable to leave, as they dont have any education, nothing to fall back on, and have children to consider.

D
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Muhaba
11-02-2010, 06:25 PM
Of course women need to get an education. you don't want us to be like animals do you? Islamic education is especially necessary because otherwise women won't know their responsibilities. a lot of women who don't have islamic education end up being materialistic and even a problem for society, for exampe when buying things they don't need. men and women alike need scientific education for various reasons. Those scientifically educated can understand islam better. Additionally they can better teach children. Uneducated women can't teach their children and also don't know the benefit of education.

There's nothing wrong with women driving as long as they don't go out of town on secluded roads.

Women who want to work should work, but shouldn't be pressured to work since there may be times when it won't be possible for them to get work, for example when raising young children or when one can't find work while wearing hijab. however, women shouldn't be stopped from working since we don't want to waste our education. Also, there is a need for female teachers, doctors, etc.
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distressed
11-02-2010, 06:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bedouin
My opinion:

Being married and raising pious children is much more rewarding in the hereafter than going out chasing a career (and I deliberately say 'chase' here, to reflect on the mentality of feminist 'career women').
these are mostly women at the top of the profession ladder. power just gets to people's heads, i know a lot of girls like this. I really dont get why they look down on others.
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Asiyah3
11-02-2010, 06:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muhaba
a lot of women who don't have islamic education end up being materialistic and even a problem for society, for exampe when buying things they don't need.
May I ask what do you mean by things they don't need? Make-up? And how is it a problem for society?
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purple
11-02-2010, 07:01 PM
i fink she means those who r u selfish and demanding things their father or husband cannot afford. lyk if dey were to get islamic education, they wuldnt act lyk dat. bt den agen even a non muslim girl/woman wuldnt act like dat to der families. it is basic moral principle so i dnt particularly understand where da eduaction wuld come in2 it.
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purple
11-02-2010, 07:02 PM
thanks for replies.
Reply

S.Belle
11-02-2010, 07:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muhaba
a lot of women who don't have islamic education end up being materialistic and even a problem for society, for exampe when buying things they don't need.

I did not receive what some would call an islamic education and i do not act that way at all. Education doesnt deal with the way someone acts thats just culture
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Asiyah3
11-02-2010, 08:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
i fink she means those who r u selfish and demanding things their father or husband cannot afford. lyk if dey were to get islamic education, they wuldnt act lyk dat. bt den agen even a non muslim girl/woman wuldnt act like dat to der families. it is basic moral principle so i dnt particularly understand where da eduaction wuld come in2 it.
I think now I understand what she may have meant. I think she meant Islamic knowledge. If you're ignorant of and far away from Islam, and the heart finds peace only in the remembrance of Allah swt, you'll start to seek contentment from the materialistic life of this world.
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Muhaba
11-03-2010, 12:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Runaway
May I ask what do you mean by things they don't need? Make-up? And how is it a problem for society?
LOL I buy too much makeup! what i meant was buying, for example, another purse or pair of shoes or a new sweater, etc which one doesn't need. I used to do this as well. I just couldn't resist shoes and handbags if i saw one in the store that i liked, but alhamdullillah that now i don't want to buy one unless i absolutely need it. Now i think it's dumb to buy things that one doesn't need and I sometimes wonder if women do this more than men? There is a verse in Surah Al-Nisa which says not to give money to the "sufahaa" (those of weak understanding) and some commentators say that this refers to women. While that isn't absolutely true, but women probably fall into this category more nowadays since a lot of women don't know how to use money properly. I really think that anyone who buys something they don't need has a weak understanding.
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tigerkhan
11-03-2010, 03:45 AM
:sl:
i here remember of Hazrat Asma Bint Abubakar...She was married to Zubair Ra....cousin of Prophet PBUH....She dont know how to cook, and work...but She herself do work of farming (i dont have appoporite word for that)...this is mentioned in Bukahi in detail...to cook she take her stuff to Ansar women and they cook for her...mean generally Quraish women are like queens at that times bcz they quraish do business and for domestic work they have servents...however in madina...its bit hard for them in the start...anyway they did it........the things to understand is .....actually this education, work, driving etc is not a purpose but its just to support the real purpose.... so if in a society (like it in 3-4 rd century hijri) if there is no financial issue,,,i blv there is no need for women to take this wordly education and science tension...work and driving etc........ they have much more responsibilites as mother.... since now a days men dont have worth for purity, piouty and taqwa of some girl so i think she must educate herself, can do work but never forgot life is not just for to get good degree, good car and job etc....we should effort more to learn the things of islam as taqwa, eman, salat, knowledge of deen, responsibillites as muslim mother......
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Ummu Sufyaan
11-03-2010, 05:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
salm
I hve overall impression 4om my community dat dey rather hve der women stay at home. I also sense dis 4om other forums but i wnt 2 knw wat brothers fink and feel abut dis. Also wat sisters feel and fink abut dis?

Brothers n Sisters? Do u fink women shld get education and drive? And also 2 be able 2 wrk?
(I wnt 2 do a poll bt not sure if i cn. Can admin do da polls for me plz? sorry abut my poor english):embarrass
i dont see anything wrong with it. as long as it isnt compromising your iman in anyway. if it does, then drop it. i dont think this is particular to either gender.

if brothers dont want their wives to drive, they at-least have to willing to take her places. its not really nice to keep on asking for something you already have the capability of doing yourself.
Reply

Amoeba
11-03-2010, 08:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
salm
I hve overall impression 4om my community dat dey rather hve der women stay at home. I also sense dis 4om other forums but i wnt 2 knw wat brothers fink and feel abut dis. Also wat sisters feel and fink abut dis?

Brothers n Sisters? Do u fink women shld get education and drive? And also 2 be able 2 wrk?
(I wnt 2 do a poll bt not sure if i cn. Can admin do da polls for me plz? sorry abut my poor english):embarrass
Women should if they want to. If not it shouldn't be forced upon them unless there's no other option such as in times of hardship. I hate the mentality that some women have who scoff at other women who choose to be at home with the family.

As far as women being encouraged to stay at home and do domestic work... that is the ideal, but individual circumstances need to be considered.

I think mental health plays a part too. Consider a woman who, perhaps, yet doesn't have many family responsibilities. Being stuck in the house all day is downright depressing when you're pretty much alone, such as in the case of reverts who don't have a supportive family around them, whose mothers, sisters, fathers and brothers are absent or broken up and don't really see each other (and are maybe non-muslim so not quite so understanding). Maybe don't even live together. The home is a fairly empty place for such a woman leaving her open to subtle attacks that could make her depressed.

In latitudes closer to the poles s.a.d. syndrome is also a problem. There are three main remedies for this: a special type of light (that doesn't always help), keeping occupied at all times, and getting outside a LOT. So in such latitudes getting work outside the home may even be a therapy to some women.

Then there are some women who just don't have the personality type to remain at home, where being indoors all the time would just be too stressful. As I hate when working women scoff at home-working women, I also can't stand home-working women who scold women for having a job and getting outside. Some women are just very active and need to be out and about, even out working, to keep their mind sharp. Many such women have just as much usefulness as working men do or as home-working women, such as those who pursue a career that can turn out to be helpful to society. If a women has a personality and a mind for that kind of thing, such as as one person used as an example, being a GP or a doctor, or physical activities such as being a wilderness/mountain rescuer (some women really do need to be kept physically active and get outside) it shouldn't go to waste. It would be a terrible shame.

That's my honest feelings and opinions on the matter.
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Cabdullahi
11-03-2010, 08:35 AM
women can work...drive....but at some point they'd have to stay in and nurture the kids
Reply

Woodrow
11-03-2010, 09:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
salm
I hve overall impression 4om my community dat dey rather hve der women stay at home. I also sense dis 4om other forums but i wnt 2 knw wat brothers fink and feel abut dis. Also wat sisters feel and fink abut dis?

Brothers n Sisters? Do u fink women shld get education and drive? And also 2 be able 2 wrk?
(I wnt 2 do a poll bt not sure if i cn. Can admin do da polls for me plz? sorry abut my poor english):embarrass
A poll has been added
Reply

muslimsister1
11-03-2010, 10:55 AM
:sl:

Hope your all in gud health by the grace of Almighty Allah SWT, its bin an intresting read and a good topic aswell, i myself am married and living with inlaws, no kids at the mo, Inshaallah soon.

Before i got married i worked at a call centre part time and the shifts were varied, once i knew i was gona get married i looked for a job where i could balance both work and home at the same time, at the mo i work part time 9-1, Alhumdolilah this is perfect as i can do my household duties aswell, may b a benfit is that i live with my inlaws so my mthr in law does thing aswell. Inshaallah once i have children i intend to quit work and look after them full time until they reach an age of 4 -5, this is wen Inshaallah they will be at school and madressa full time.

What im trying to say is yeh its fine for women to work and have an education and drive as nowadays to get anywer it would be with a car (well in the uk anywy) esp with the weather and the husband is at work BUT women HAVE to balance things and it should not be a problem, but i do feel that nowadays women do not want to sacrifice on things, its just wat they want and how they can have it, im not saying about all women and im sorry if i have offended anyone, its just from what i see.

:wa:
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Caller الداعي
11-03-2010, 11:15 AM
i think its not a blanket answer we can give. the type of education ,field of study etc need to be considered also if this comes in the way of Islamic and domestic duties not to mention intermingling of the sexes must also be considered. Similarly is the case of driving. It is important and safe in many parts of the world and cities however in many places it is very dangerous for women to drive alone.
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Amat Allah
11-03-2010, 11:26 AM
education is important for everyone to know how to read and write to know this deen and its teachings to read Qur`aan and Sunnah to please Allah...

reported by Abu Hurayrah in Sahih Muslim in a long hadeeth that the Prophet of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said:
"...and he who reads the path in search of knowledge, Allaah would make that path easy, leading to Paradise for him and those persons who assemble in the house among the houses of Allaah (mosques) and recite the Book of Allaah and they learn and teach the Qur'an (among themselves) there would descend upon them the tranquillity and mercy would cover them and the angels would surround them and Allaah makes a mention of them in the presence of those near Him..." Th book of Athiker and Duaa...

for work and driving I don`t see any harm in those two if they were necessary, as for me they are not cause I allready have my father and other men of my family who bring all my needs after Allah and take me wherever I want ; I am treated like a princess...Alhamdulillah...and this is by the blessings and mercy of Allah...All Praise Thanks and Glory be to the Most Merciful and Generous...
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Muhaba
11-03-2010, 03:29 PM
I was rather surprised to see the poll. if driving, working outside of the house, and getting an education are halal then it is a woman's right to have them and noone can stop her. if anyone thinks women shouldn't be allowed to do these then they would have to prove how these things are islamically not allowed.
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Zafran
11-03-2010, 06:37 PM
salaam

wow seems like all muslims agree on this one but ofcourse this is the modern female problem - Career Vs family life

peace
Reply

Amat Allah
11-04-2010, 11:12 AM
if there is no need for work then family comes first and home would be the right place for woman,I meant if that woman can find what to feed and put in the mouths of her children then staying home is better for her than having a job and leaving her house and children with no care but if there is none to bring them their needs then nobody can blame her for striving to feed her self and children and she might need to drive at that situation...home is better for woman if there is no need to go out...
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S_87
11-04-2010, 12:43 PM
none of them things are haram but imo women should look at their priorities and if these things affect it too much (not driivng im talking more career and education-and by education i mean further education, because general education is a must for everyone) then yeh it can be a problem.
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S_87
11-04-2010, 12:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muhaba
I was rather surprised to see the poll. if driving, working outside of the house, and getting an education are halal then it is a woman's right to have them and noone can stop her. if anyone thinks women shouldn't be allowed to do these then they would have to prove how these things are islamically not allowed.


actually she can be stopped-if a husband says no to these things then a woman must obey. And yes he has that right. of course he should have a reason and there are reasons why a man may not want this.
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~Raindrop~
11-04-2010, 04:47 PM
I think it depends.
Speaking from experience, I've seen a lot of girls who attended an islamic boardiing establishment for a number of years, and upon graduating they rush to attend mixed colleges, almost as though their education isn't 'complete'. SubhanAllah.
Nothing wrong with college in my opinion if the Deen isn't being compromised..but the second stage is that after studying (or not, depending on the person) they get married..and end up at home. What exactly is the point of wasting all those years in college if they know they'll embrace motherhood to the fullest and not benefit from it?
I have nothing against higher education if it's being used to help the Ummah-we need female Muslim doctors, nurses, teachers etc etc- and if it doesn't compromise a person's moral values, modesty and Deen. In that case, it's commendble and should be actively encouraged.
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purple
11-04-2010, 04:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Amat Allah
if there is no need for work then family comes first and home would be the right place for woman,I meant if that woman can find what to feed and put in the mouths of her children then staying home is better for her than having a job and leaving her house and children with no care but if there is none to bring them their needs then nobody can blame her for striving to feed her self and children and she might need to drive at that situation...home is better for woman if there is no need to go out...
slam
do you honestly stay at home for the rest of your life? i mean you dont at all visit a shops, hospital, schools, banks? no? I think a environment without some women working whether they are single mothers or unmarried or married would be hell for you. Be realistic at least, i admit that you need some women to work in order for you to benefit the world you live in. most sisters would suffer if women were to stop working. i unlike you dont like to stuck indoors at all.
Staying indoors would oppress me and has oppressed when I was married. Not all sisters are like you, happy and content to stay at home. I didn’t see any benefits staying at home when I was married. It was hell.
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purple
11-04-2010, 05:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by S_87
actually she can be stopped-if a husband says no to these things then a woman must obey. And yes he has that right. of course he should have a reason and there are reasons why a man may not want this.
This exactly why non Muslim thinks Islam is oppressive. I don’t understand why marriage can’t be a partnership where both partners come to a decision. Not one dictating to other. and what reasons would a man stop his wife from becoming a doctor or working as one for example? His ego...

Thanks for the replies. Interesting perspectives.

Reply

purple
11-04-2010, 05:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aisha
I think it depends.
Speaking from experience, I've seen a lot of girls who attended an islamic boardiing establishment for a number of years, and upon graduating they rush to attend mixed colleges, almost as though their education isn't 'complete'. SubhanAllah.
Nothing wrong with college in my opinion if the Deen isn't being compromised..but the second stage is that after studying (or not, depending on the person) they get married..and end up at home. What exactly is the point of wasting all those years in college if they know they'll embrace motherhood to the fullest and not benefit from it?
I have nothing against higher education if it's being used to help the Ummah-we need female Muslim doctors, nurses, teachers etc etc- and if it doesn't compromise a person's moral values, modesty and Deen. In that case, it's commendble and should be actively encouraged.

I see your point; however the more educated the mother, the more educated the child will be. There is a lot more to gain from higher education that the subject itself. Thanks for reply. I do definitely understand where u r comin from.
Reply

purple
11-04-2010, 05:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Amoeba
Women should if they want to. If not it shouldn't be forced upon them unless there's no other option such as in times of hardship. I hate the mentality that some women have who scoff at other women who choose to be at home with the family.

As far as women being encouraged to stay at home and do domestic work... that is the ideal, but individual circumstances need to be considered.

I think mental health plays a part too. Consider a woman who, perhaps, yet doesn't have many family responsibilities. Being stuck in the house all day is downright depressing when you're pretty much alone, such as in the case of reverts who don't have a supportive family around them, whose mothers, sisters, fathers and brothers are absent or broken up and don't really see each other (and are maybe non-muslim so not quite so understanding). Maybe don't even live together. The home is a fairly empty place for such a woman leaving her open to subtle attacks that could make her depressed.

In latitudes closer to the poles s.a.d. syndrome is also a problem. There are three main remedies for this: a special type of light (that doesn't always help), keeping occupied at all times, and getting outside a LOT. So in such latitudes getting work outside the home may even be a therapy to some women.

Then there are some women who just don't have the personality type to remain at home, where being indoors all the time would just be too stressful. As I hate when working women scoff at home-working women, I also can't stand home-working women who scold women for having a job and getting outside. Some women are just very active and need to be out and about, even out working, to keep their mind sharp. Many such women have just as much usefulness as working men do or as home-working women, such as those who pursue a career that can turn out to be helpful to society. If a women has a personality and a mind for that kind of thing, such as as one person used as an example, being a GP or a doctor, or physical activities such as being a wilderness/mountain rescuer (some women really do need to be kept physically active and get outside) it shouldn't go to waste. It would be a terrible shame.

That's my honest feelings and opinions on the matter.
Salm

U summed up how I feel on this topic. Im the same as u as I dnt like sisters who looked down on those who work and those who work that look down upon housewives. I think people need to accept that women just like men are all different. Not all women get married and have children and stay at home and either are all women want to work.
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جوري
11-04-2010, 08:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
salm I hve overall impression 4om my community dat dey rather hve der women stay at home. I also sense dis 4om other forums but i wnt 2 knw wat brothers fink and feel abut dis. Also wat sisters feel and fink abut dis? Brothers n Sisters? Do u fink women shld get education and drive? And also 2 be able 2 wrk? (I wnt 2 do a poll bt not sure if i cn. Can admin do da polls for me plz? sorry abut my poor english)
:sl:

I don't have much to contribute to this topic however, I am rather amused or should say impressed by your sudden grammatical aptitude on this thread

http://www.islamicboard.com/health-s...-dementia.html

:w:
Reply

purple
11-04-2010, 08:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

:sl:

I don't have much to contribute to this topic however, I am rather amused or should say impressed by your sudden grammatical aptitude on this thread


:w:
I don’t write like dat bcos of my poor understanding of English. I write like lyk dat bcos I am or was simply lazy. As you can see my few last post addressing the replies b4 u, I have written in proper English. Excuse my laziness and sorry dat it bothered u so much.
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Asiyah3
11-04-2010, 08:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Amat Allah
if there is no need for work then family comes first and home would be the right place for woman,I meant if that woman can find what to feed and put in the mouths of her children then staying home is better for her than having a job and leaving her house and children with no care but if there is none to bring them their needs then nobody can blame her for striving to feed her self and children and she might need to drive at that situation...home is better for woman if there is no need to go out...
I disagree. A woman has a life too. But, if it's affecting the rights of the husband or children then yes, family comes first. However, if the children are over seven, then I don't see any reason for the mother to be there 24/7 especially if the younger kids have older bros and sisters there.

Is it considered a need if she prefers to work and not sit home doing the same daily things forever?
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S_87
11-04-2010, 09:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
This exactly why non Muslim thinks Islam is oppressive. I don’t understand why marriage can’t be a partnership where both partners come to a decision. Not one dictating to other. and what reasons would a man stop his wife from becoming a doctor or working as one for example? His ego...

Thanks for the replies. Interesting perspectives.
He might prefer that she looks after the kids at home instead of others raising them, he may think the environment she is in is not what he prefers (not dr specific but any job) . I didnt say working is forbidden, some husbands just prefer their wives not working. My husband doesnt want me to work and i have no problem with that at all, its not a dictatorship, it is something we discussed and i accepted. so if a husband demands his wife works and brings home a salary to support her half of the bills, thats not oppression or dictatorship?
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S_87
11-04-2010, 09:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
I see your point; however the more educated the mother, the more educated the child will be. There is a lot more to gain from higher education that the subject itself. Thanks for reply. I do definitely understand where u r comin from.
not necessarily. What is education? To have a degree?
education doesnt mean wisdom :)
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جوري
11-04-2010, 10:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
Excuse my laziness and sorry dat it bothered u so much.

Oh I am not bothered at all please do carry on..

I seem to have misunderstood you when you wrote:
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
sorry abut my poor english)

glad you clarified that for me with this:


format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
I don’t write like dat bcos of my poor understanding of English
:w:
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Asiyah3
11-04-2010, 10:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aisha
I think it depends.
Speaking from experience, I've seen a lot of girls who attended an islamic boardiing establishment for a number of years, and upon graduating they rush to attend mixed colleges, almost as though their education isn't 'complete'. SubhanAllah.
Nothing wrong with college in my opinion if the Deen isn't being compromised..but the second stage is that after studying (or not, depending on the person) they get married..and end up at home. What exactly is the point of wasting all those years in college if they know they'll embrace motherhood to the fullest and not benefit from it?
I have nothing against higher education if it's being used to help the Ummah-we need female Muslim doctors, nurses, teachers etc etc- and if it doesn't compromise a person's moral values, modesty and Deen. In that case, it's commendble and should be actively encouraged.
This would mean that the people who choose college, should work and not let their skills and knowledge go to waste.

Many people here have mentioned working with where there is a need to. It works vice versa. What is the need to stay home if there's no need to (she stays with the children until they're old enough, the working hours are suitable and the work place is halal)?

Only my personal opinion. Let's say there's a female teacher. Would it be better for her to spend the day watching soap operas and hanging on the net or teach children and benefit from her knowledge?
Reply

Muhaba
11-04-2010, 11:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by S_87
He might prefer that she looks after the kids at home instead of others raising them, he may think the environment she is in is not what he prefers (not dr specific but any job) . I didnt say working is forbidden, some husbands just prefer their wives not working. My husband doesnt want me to work and i have no problem with that at all, its not a dictatorship, it is something we discussed and i accepted. so if a husband demands his wife works and brings home a salary to support her half of the bills, thats not oppression or dictatorship?
While i don't know whether it is a man's right to stop his wife from working or keeping her from leaving the house, i do know that a man can't demand that his wife work and pay the bills. it's the man's responsibility to support the wife and even if she works, he can't take her money.

Also, a woman can make a man agree in a marriage contract that she be allowed to work etc and then the man won't be able to stop her since prenuptual contracts have to be respected islamically.

Furthermore, in the Quran it is written that if a woman commits indecency, then the man should lock her in the house. While this verse was abrogated by the verses regarding the punishment of zina, i think that a man doesn't have the right to tell his wife not to leave the house unless he suspects indecent behavior. Also, a man can't oppress his wife but has to give her a good life and anything that's oppressive to the wife shouldn't be done in my opinion, and that includes stopping the woman from working when she wants and when her working outside the house doesn't have any harmful effect on the children or husband's rights.

Would i marry a man who tells me not to work or not to leave the house without a valid reason? Most certainly not.
Reply

Muhaba
11-05-2010, 12:46 AM
Allah says in the Quran, Surah Nisa:

O you who believe, you are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dower you have given them - except when they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike a thing and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.


IMO, a man shouldn't be harsh to a woman and shouldn't force her not to work when she wants since that would be oppressive to the woman and may even make some woman seek divorce. Some men may do just that to force the wife to ask for divorce so she gives him back the mahr. A lot of times all i hear is how it is the husband's right that he be obeyed. I really think there are restrictions on the husband as well and he can't order his wife just anything and she must automatically obey just because he's her husband. A man must not order his wife anything that is oppressive to the woman, something that might be intolerable and would force her to get divorce. He must be kind and give her a good, comfortable life. The Prophet (SAW) said that the best one is the one who is good to women. Another hadith says that the best is the one who is good to his family.

So i believe that if the woman wants to work, can get work in islamically allowed conditions, and her working out of the house doesn't harm the children or family, that is, she has time to take care of the children and house well and can give attention to everyone in the family, then i don't think that it is the husband's right to stop the woman from working. And Allah knows best.
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Ummu Sufyaan
11-05-2010, 12:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
This exactly why non Muslim thinks Islam is oppressive. I don’t understand why marriage can’t be a partnership where both partners come to a decision. Not one dictating to other. and what reasons would a man stop his wife from becoming a doctor or working as one for example? His ego...

Thanks for the replies. Interesting perspectives.
are you suggestion that Muslim women should work to prove herself to others?
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purple
11-05-2010, 12:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
are you suggestion that Muslim women should work to prove herself to others?

Can’t you read what the post was in response to? It was in response to the husband being able to click his finger and all of the sudden stop his wife from working. That is oppressive unless they had a discussion and came to that decision. And if you had read my other post then you would have seen that I don’t see women who stay at home as inferior or those who work as superior. Be careful before you start to jump into swift and false conclusion.
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purple
11-05-2010, 12:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by S_87
He might prefer that she looks after the kids at home instead of others raising them, he may think the environment she is in is not what he prefers (not dr specific but any job) . I didnt say working is forbidden, some husbands just prefer their wives not working. My husband doesnt want me to work and i have no problem with that at all, its not a dictatorship, it is something we discussed and i accepted. so if a husband demands his wife works and brings home a salary to support her half of the bills, thats not oppression or dictatorship?


Those types of men need find a sister that does not want to work instead of forcing a sister that wants to work and her work is not affecting her duty to quit working. And all women that work don’t raise their kids themselves? There is such a thing called ‘part time’ before or even work at home, two of which are becoming common amongst working women. Just like a stay at home mother, may give their children to grandparents for respite care, a working ‘part time’ mother gives her child to grandparents when she is working.

Unless there is a discussion between the husband wife and then finally the agreement between the two like in your case to stay at home. A husband telling his wife to stay at home when no thoughts and consideration of what the wife make feel and think is a dictator and oppressive.
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Ummu Sufyaan
11-05-2010, 12:56 PM
^ *rereads post* i get now. but i dont see how that comment you made that i quoted is relevant, thus the question still stands.

again, are you suggesting that Muslim women should work to prove herself to others?

and please point out to me what my accusation is? *confused*
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purple
11-05-2010, 01:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by S_87
not necessarily. What is education? To have a degree?
education doesnt mean wisdom :)
Obtaining a degree or higher education doesn’t just entail the subject itself. The person also is able to come across wide range of subject. Like in science, you would have to able to write in academic English and have considerably knowledge in mathematics, history, geography, psychology and to an extent even sociology. Now if the person is able to obtain that level of education in further education, she is able to home school her children herself. Not just even home school her children but also have significantly understanding in the education system and criteria she would have to follow. Add that to Islamic education she may have also obtain would mean her child would have significant all around education that a straight from high school mother may not have.

You are right a degree doesnt equal wisdom. Instead it is added tool to prepare your child for outside world. And personally how the person uses what their learnt from mother, father etc illustrates wisdom for me. Not what they have learnt.
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purple
11-05-2010, 01:17 PM
That comment about non Muslims was in reference to the idea that a husband can stop is wife without thoughts and consideration for her. How is able to stop his wife from working because he wants to. This reflects idea most non Muslims have of Muslim marriage which often the husband has all the say, the wife is disregarded. The idea of Muslim marriage is a dictatorship not partnership. And I believe most Muslims are the latter in reality.
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Asiyah3
11-05-2010, 01:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
Those types of men need find a sister that does not want to work instead of forcing a sister that wants to work and her work is not affecting her duty to quit working. And all women that work don’t raise their kids themselves? There is such a thing called ‘part time’ before or even work at home, two of which are becoming common amongst working women. Just like a stay at home mother, may give their children to grandparents for respite care, a working ‘part time’ mother gives her child to grandparents when she is working.
Are you talking about small children or older ones? A small child (under 7) needs his/her mother.

format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
That comment about non Muslims was in reference to the idea that a husband can stop is wife without thoughts and consideration for her. How is able to stop his wife from working because he wants to. This reflects idea most non Muslims have of Muslim marriage which often the husband has all the say, the wife is disregarded. The idea of Muslim marriage is a dictatorship not partnership. And I believe most Muslims are the latter in reality.
Why did you bring non-Muslims into this? What on earth do they and their opinions have to do with Muslim women working?
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S_87
11-05-2010, 02:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
Obtaining a degree or higher education doesn’t just entail the subject itself. The person also is able to come across wide range of subject. Like in science, you would have to able to write in academic English and have considerably knowledge in mathematics, history, geography, psychology and to an extent even sociology. Now if the person is able to obtain that level of education in further education, she is able to home school her children herself. Not just even home school her children but also have significantly understanding in the education system and criteria she would have to follow. Add that to Islamic education she may have also obtain would mean her child would have significant all around education that a straight from high school mother may not have.

You are right a degree doesnt equal wisdom. Instead it is added tool to prepare your child for outside world. And personally how the person uses what their learnt from mother, father etc illustrates wisdom for me. Not what they have learnt.

:sl:
so the mother is homeschooling + following a career, wow thats gonna be one strong determined woman. I think your example is just pulling at straws tbh. As i said before, nothing wrong at all with further education but it doesnt mean a person without a degree is dumber. straight from high school doesnt mean a person stops learning. :)

muslim men arent dictators, sure some may be, but then thered have to be a lot of oppressed muslim women....
Reply

Adem Al-Albani
11-05-2010, 02:19 PM
I voted yes to all three, but I think all should be limited within the bounds of the Qur'an and Sunnah.
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purple
11-05-2010, 02:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Runaway
Are you talking about small children or older ones? A small child (under 7) needs his/her mother.


Why did you bring non-Muslims into this? What on earth do they and their opinions have to do with Muslim women working?
I was talking about older children and those under the age of seven are too young to be without their mother. But I also don’t see the problem with the mother working once or twice a week even with children under the age of seven especially if she has family around her.

I was merely pointing where few of the misconception about women and Islam comes from. The idea the husband can disregard his wife only adds fuel to fire and it concerns all Muslim women who reside in the west who constantly have to address this issue. It only right for me to point this out once. I didn’t even emphasise it at all, it is only you and Ummu reverting to them.
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purple
11-05-2010, 02:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by S_87
:sl:
so the mother is homeschooling + following a career, wow thats gonna be one strong determined woman. I think your example is just pulling at straws tbh. As i said before, nothing wrong at all with further education but it doesnt mean a person without a degree is dumber. straight from high school doesnt mean a person stops learning. :)

muslim men arent dictators, sure some may be, but then thered have to be a lot of oppressed muslim women....
Are you purposely trying to be foolish? Are you not at all following the reply you made to me earlier? I was talking about those women who get education but choose not to work. I can’t believe I even have to point this out to you.
I did not say Muslim men are dictators. Please read properly, that accusation you made of me generalising (which I did not do) is serious.
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purple
11-05-2010, 02:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by S_87
:sl:
so the mother is homeschooling + following a career, wow thats gonna be one strong determined woman. I think your example is just pulling at straws tbh. As i said before, nothing wrong at all with further education but it doesnt mean a person without a degree is dumber. straight from high school doesnt mean a person stops learning. :)

muslim men arent dictators, sure some may be, but then thered have to be a lot of oppressed muslim women....
I also did not say a person without degree is dumber. I simply stated the advantages of having futher education (and you dont have to have a degree to have a futher education btw) without wokring afterwards. Truthfully you owe me an apology for your selective amnesia.
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S_87
11-05-2010, 03:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muhaba
While i don't know whether it is a man's right to stop his wife from working or keeping her from leaving the house, i do know that a man can't demand that his wife work and pay the bills. it's the man's responsibility to support the wife and even if she works, he can't take her money.
My point was, a man wanting his wife staying at home is seen as 'a man forcing his wife to be indoors' yet a man wanting his wife to work and bring home a wage-and yes ideally a womans money is a womans money but realistically in this day and age, especially when a womans salary is higher than herh usbands, she is expected to pay- is not seen as 'forcing his wife to work.' and yes a husband has right to stop his wife. a woman must obey her husband unless obedience to him means disobedience to Allah.

Also, a woman can make a man agree in a marriage contract that she be allowed to work etc and then the man won't be able to stop her since prenuptual contracts have to be respected islamically.
and what if her working is affecting her family life? Then what?


Furthermore, in the Quran it is written that if a woman commits indecency, then the man should lock her in the house. While this verse was abrogated by the verses regarding the punishment of zina, i think that a man doesn't have the right to tell his wife not to leave the house unless he suspects indecent behavior. Also, a man can't oppress his wife but has to give her a good life and anything that's oppressive to the wife shouldn't be done in my opinion, and that includes stopping the woman from working when she wants and when her working outside the house doesn't have any harmful effect on the children or husband's rights.

Would i marry a man who tells me not to work or not to leave the house without a valid reason? Most certainly not.
I dunno if its just me but its like a man who doesnt want his wife to work is an oppressive man telling his wife not to work lol. would i marry a man who expects me to have a career n bring home a wage? most certainly not. i guess it works both ways.
Like i said to each their own, but the fact is the husband the right.
Reply

marwen
11-05-2010, 03:32 PM
<_< nice poll results ...
move that thread to the Brothers's section for 30 seconds, then return it back here, and I'm sure the poll results will be better :Evil:
Reply

S_87
11-05-2010, 03:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
Are you purposely trying to be foolish? Are you not at all following the reply you made to me earlier? I was talking about those women who get education but choose not to work. I can’t believe I even have to point this out to you.
I did not say Muslim men are dictators. Please read properly, that accusation you made of me generalising (which I did not do) is serious.
lol do i have to point on your rambling on 'non muslims think the husband has all the say' when u said that YOU generalised non muslim thought with the wealth of experience you have on what ' most non muslims think'


and how can i know what you mean when from the sound of it your idea of a husband not preferring his wife to work is a DICTATORSHIP where she has no say? When from the sound of it, the women arent given the choice not to choose to not work, because 'most non muslims think its the husband.' you are the one that implied the above.

and no i dont owe you any apology. where does it say women who stay at home dont still educate themselves within the home, only officially doing the high school root?


and FYI, in the poll i voted the first 3 options, i have no problem as a woman with them, what i have a problem with is the whole husbands preferring wives at home=oppressed women situation going on here
Reply

purple
11-05-2010, 03:52 PM
My point was, a man wanting his wife staying at home is seen as 'a man forcing his wife to be indoors' yet a man wanting his wife to work and bring home a wage-and yes ideally a womans money is a womans money but realistically in this day and age, especially when a womans salary is higher than herh usbands, she is expected to pay- is not seen as 'forcing his wife to work.' and yes a husband has right to stop his wife. a woman must obey her husband unless obedience to him means disobedience to Allah.
Can you please point out anyone that said a husband expecting his wife to pay and work is not oppressive until then reduce your emotional outburst.


and what if her working is affecting her family life? Then what?
Then he has every right to stop her, like me and muhaba already said SEVERAL TIMES.



I dunno if its just me but its like a man who doesnt want his wife to work is an oppressive man telling his wife not to work lol. would i marry a man who expects me to have a career n bring home a wage? most certainly not. i guess it works both ways.
NO, it just you and your selective and imaginative reading. Would I marry a husband that tells me to stop working even though my work is not way conflicting with my duty? NO way.

Like i said to each their own, but the fact is the husband the right.
The husband has right to disregard his wife feelings even though her work is no way affecting her duty? Is that what you agreed to, then that is oppressive.
I don’t know why you are reading so selectively, maybe is because you are truly unhappy to be told to stay at home? If that is not case, then what is the explanation of your response that overlooks all that we have said. The only explanation is emotional outburst.
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purple
11-05-2010, 04:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by S_87
lol do i have to point on your rambling on 'non muslims think the husband has all the say' when u said that YOU generalised non muslim thought with the wealth of experience you have on what ' most non muslims think'

:uhwhatAnd you are pointing this out to me now because....? Again selective reading? or you dont want to mention the part where I one of the few misconception? no? nah let forget about that.


and how can i know what you mean when from the sound of it your idea of a husband not preferring his wife to work is a DICTATORSHIP where she has no say? When from the sound of it, the women arent given the choice not to choose to not work, because 'most non muslims think its the husband.' you are the one that implied the above.

Again selective reading! I did not say that. In fact, I just think that you think a wife feeling and views is less important? I will quote one of what I have several times already:

Unless there is a discussion between the husband wife and then finally the agreement between the two like in your case to stay at home. A husband telling his wife to stay at home when no thoughts and consideration of what the wife make feel and think is a dictator and oppressive.

and no i dont owe you any apology. where does it say women who stay at home dont still educate themselves within the home, only officially doing the high school root?

Yes you do owe me an apology. Again I have to repeat what I said, I was talking about those who go into education then marry and dont work. Those who alreday been through the education system not those who choose not to go through the education system.

and FYI, in the poll i voted the first 3 options, i have no problem as a woman with them, what i have a problem with is the whole husbands preferring wives at home=oppressed women situation going on here

Again, I did not say if a husband prefer his wife to stay at home equal oppressive, I clearly said I have a problem with those agreed first to allow their wives to work then click his finger and says no for no good reason. Not taking her into consideration at all. I also they should marry woman who want to stay at home.


Do you like jumping into conclusion btw?
Reply

tigerkhan
11-05-2010, 04:45 PM
:sl:
i just want to shear some line regarding "work". maybe it would be helpful.
i heard one Hazrat Ali RA came home and there is nothing to eat. even his sons Hasan and Hassian RA had not eaten anything. so he went to a garden to do some work. and he deal with jew owner of garden that he will give water to plants on rate of some dates for every plant. when he finish the owner say, if u do some more work, i will give u double payment. But Hazrat Ali Ra siad, no what i had earned is suffcient for my need so even for double payment he was not ready to do anymore work.
2. Hazart Abu Darda Ra siad; B4 isalm i do business, after islam i try to combine business and worship/ebaadat, but i didnt succeed. he say now i even dont like that i have a shop near a door to masjid so that it dont disturb/harm my ebadaat and all income i give in charity and sadqa. someone ask its a good option but y dont u like it. he replied, i have to give hisaab/exam for it. mean in start he do business and ebaadat both but with the some time passes he got so much strength in emaan, ilam, taqwa and ammal that ALLAH SWT give him all the things with out doing any work, so he leave work. (plz note Allah SWt has promised for mutaqeen to give him rizq from where they dont imagine).

hopefully it throw some light on how much is the importance of "work" in times of Proophet PBUH. mean they do it according to need. but what today we are doing, we are spenting our whole lives in this "career pbm". even girls today have this madness/janoon, they are not islamically responsible for that. i am not saying that women should not work but i mean (as i mentioned in my last post in this thread), i blv this work is a secondary thing. we have some other purpose, to learn islam, emman, ammal, taqwq, tawaqal etc and spread this to all world. we should do work whether its man or women if its supportive to our purpose. as Asma Ra did bcz Zubair RA was mostly busy in deen and dawa work. she was not islamically responsible for that, but they have done it bcz they have purpose and they all are supportive to each other for this purpose.
JZK
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S_87
11-05-2010, 07:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah

Can you please point out anyone that said a husband expecting his wife to pay and work is not oppressive until then reduce your emotional outburst.




my point was it works both ways.

Then he has every right to stop her, like me and muhaba already said SEVERAL TIMES.



and how can he do that if as suggested it was a pre marital agreement? And what if the wife disagrees? How can he 'stop' her then? Is that not oppressive? She may not think it is affecting her family life, he does, then what?


NO, it just you and your selective and imaginative reading. Would I marry a husband that tells me to stop working even though my work is not way conflicting with my duty? NO way.



The husband has right to disregard his wife feelings even though her work is no way affecting her duty? Is that what you agreed to, then that is oppressive.
dont put words into my mouth. :) i never said anything about disregarding his wifes feelings, thats what YOU think

I don’t know why you are reading so selectively, maybe is because you are truly unhappy to be told to stay at home? If that is not case, then what is the explanation of your response that overlooks all that we have said. The only explanation is emotional outburst.
if that was the case i wouldnt have voted the way i did. you say im disregarding everything you say and im the one with the emotional outburst yet you dont read what ive written, just attack attack and then you make out as if its me with the outbursts. My point is simply

A man has a right to prevent his wife from working if he wishes-islamically a woman must obey her husband. Some women may find this oppressive, others have no problem agreeing with their husband. What a non muslim thinks of this is totally irrelevant, most muslim women are NOT oppressed.
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Cabdullahi
11-05-2010, 07:50 PM
i never voted because the questions are a bit irrelevant......it looks like a poll you would find in one of these western media outlets after they do a piece on the muslim countries


'Should women drive please give us your views'
'Should women work please give us your views'
'should women bla bla bla bla bla'

Stupendous questions that whip up disgust and hatred towards the muslims
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Asiyah3
11-05-2010, 07:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
The husband has right to disregard his wife feelings even though her work is no way affecting her duty?
Does the wife have the right to disregard her husband's feelings?

format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
Those types of men need find a sister that does not want to work instead of forcing a sister that wants to work and her work is not affecting her duty to quit working.
Those types of women who wish to work need to find a brother that doesn't mind her working.
Why was this argument directed at men?
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purple
11-05-2010, 08:02 PM
I cant even reply to your posts any longer. As you think a husband has a superior position than his wife, her feelings and views doesnt matter. To as he says. I dont look down upon housewife but sure do look down upon women who think their views on the matter is lesser.

and how can he do that if as suggested it was a pre marital agreement? And what if the wife disagrees? How can he 'stop' her then? Is that not oppressive? She may not think it is affecting her family life, he does, then what?
If she put it in her contract then he cant stop her. Even if she did not put in her contract, how would you suppose he would stop her then?

It depend whether she would listen, if she doesnt then boohoo marriage is over. This should have been discussed before marriage tbh.





dont put words into my mouth. :) i never said anything about disregarding his wifes feelings, thats what YOU think
so if the husband decide to stop her for no valid reason and she doesnt agree that in no way disregards her no? Or you like the idea of a wife being treated like a child?



if that was the case i wouldnt have voted the way i did. you say im disregarding everything you say and im the one with the emotional outburst yet you dont read what ive written, just attack attack and then you make out as if its me with the outbursts. My point is simply
The poll is about whether women can work. This discussion is about whether a husband has the right to stop his wife from working without valid reasons.



A man has a right to prevent his wife from working if he wishes-islamically a woman must obey her husband. Some women may find this oppressive, others have no problem agreeing with their husband. What a non muslim thinks of this is totally irrelevant, most muslim women are NOT oppressed.
The husband can do whatever he wants and the wife is expected to listen to him unless it go against islam. so if you husband were to tell you to like his boot, i suppose you run to it and do so.

A woman must "obey", does that sound like a marriage to you at all?
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purple
11-05-2010, 08:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Runaway
Does the wife have the right to disregard her husband's feelings?


Those types of women who wish to work need to find a brother that doesn't mind her working.
Why was this argument directed at men?
I did not say his view doesnt matter, i said there should have discussion between them. clearly that means his views does matters!

This discussion was about husband position is stating whether his wife should work, it started off as that not by me either.
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purple
11-05-2010, 08:23 PM
My view on the subject about the husband authority is clear. I don’t have problem with men preferring the wife not to work, in that case find a wife who doesn’t want to work. Same would go for the sisters. What I do have a problem with is the idea “do as your husband says” during marriage. If there isn’t any valid reason for him to stop her working or studying then I don’t see why he should be allowed to!
The idea of do as your husband says contradicts the idea of marriage being a partnership.
Does Islam say the husband can order his wife to do whatever he wants. Even though it would make her unhappy? His feelings are superior to hers.
Or does Islam say there should be a discussion like two adults and both should come to a conclusion which is what I define as marriage.
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S_87
11-05-2010, 08:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ubah
I cant even reply to your posts any longer. As you think a husband has a superior position than his wife, her feelings and views doesnt matter. To as he says. I dont look down upon housewife but sure do look down upon women who think their views on the matter is lesser.
My dear sister, it is not about who is right and who is wrong. Whos views matter and whos views dont.

Answer me this: If the husband says no, the wife says yes-in any situation- one is gonna get the answer they want. Maybe the husband says the wife must work, and the wife says she wants to stay at home. One is gonna back down right? You are probably wondering why must the wife back down right? It works both ways. In Islam both husband and wife have obligations and rights. Amongst a womans right is that her husband provides for her within his means, treats her with kindness and doesnt abuse her. Amongst the husbands rights is that his wife obeys him.

If she put it in her contract then he cant stop her. Even if she did not put in her contract, how would you suppose he would stop her then?
dont know, but i imagine itd cause disagreement which sucks

The poll is about whether women can work. This discussion is about whether a husband has the right to stop his wife from working without valid reasons.



The husband can do whatever he wants and the wife is expected to listen to him unless it go against islam. so if you husband were to tell you to like his boot, i suppose you run to it and do so.

A woman must "obey", does that sound like a marriage to you at all?
ok now ur being silly. as a muslim woman, what do u make of the Quran ayahs and the hadiths which calls for obedience and charge of husband? They are a guideline, it doesnt mean men walk about with a stick bossin their wives around, its a mutual agreement and if yo ucant understand that, no point discussing further
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purple
11-05-2010, 09:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by S_87
My dear sister, it is not about who is right and who is wrong. Whos views matter and whos views dont.

Answer me this: If the husband says no, the wife says yes-in any situation- one is gonna get the answer they want. Maybe the husband says the wife must work, and the wife says she wants to stay at home. One is gonna back down right? You are probably wondering why must the wife back down right? It works both ways. In Islam both husband and wife have obligations and rights. Amongst a womans right is that her husband provides for her within his means, treats her with kindness and doesnt abuse her. Amongst the husbands rights is that his wife obeys him.


dont know, but i imagine itd cause disagreement which sucks



ok now ur being silly. as a muslim woman, what do u make of the Quran ayahs and the hadiths which calls for obedience and charge of husband? They are a guideline, it doesnt mean men walk about with a stick bossin their wives around, its a mutual agreement and if yo ucant understand that, no point discussing further

okay sister, sorry for the harsh words. As for the last paragraph, you say that 'obedience' and 'charge' doesnt mean bossing the wife around then why is that the husband can tell his what to do but she cant? Anyways I found an article which would shut both of us up lol, we are both right but i dont how to put, we didn't really put that together.

I am going to post this as sum up to this thread. I won’t be able to reply back to anyone as I am off to bed and won’t be on the computer for two week. I just post this article but I can’t post the link as I don’t have enough credits.

WOMEN IN ISLAM




Dividing Duties of Husband & Wife


Islam imposes certain duties on both husband and wife in return for certain rights which it assigns to each of them. The balance between the rights and duties of each is a perfect one

Allah has guaranteed that the message of Islam will be preserved intact for all time because He wants it to be implemented in human life in all ages and in all communities. Therefore, He has made it adaptable to all situations, so that people cannot argue that the conditions prevailing in their community make it impossible to implement the divine message. This is one of the essential characteristics of Islam which add to its strength.
There is no doubt that social conditions differ from one community to another and from one period of time to another. We cannot compare a tribal or nomadic community to the social conditions prevailing in an industrialised society. Indeed, the conditions within the same country differ from rural to urban areas. How then, can one set of teachings be applicable to all communities in all ages? The answer is found in the fact that Islam provides certain guidelines and allows every community to conduct its life the way it likes, within the framework provided by its general guidelines and principles.
In the overall social set-up, Islam defines rights and duties. However, where it is possible for a human being to usurp the rights of others, Islam defines these rights very clearly, Moreover, Islam establishes a perfect balance between rights and responsibilities. It is not acceptable from the Islamic point of view that a certain person enjoys certain rights without having to fulfil certain duties in return. Otherwise, if a person can require another to do certain things by way of duty, without giving that person certain rights, that becomes a case of exploitation which leads to much injustice. It goes without saying that exploitation and injustice undermine the very existence of any community in which they prevail. A relationship which involves injustice is undesirable to Allah. He says in a Qudsi Hadith; “My servants, I have forbidden Myself injustice and I have made injustice forbidden to you. Therefore, do not be unjust to one another.”
With regard to family relations, Islam imposes certain duties on both husband and wife in return for certain rights which it assigns to each of them. The balance between the rights and duties of each is a perfect one. In this way, Islam secures a happy life for the family. When both husband and wife fulfil their duties, they will enjoy their rights.
According to Islam, a woman is not required to work in order to earn her living. Her husband is responsible to ensure a decent standard of living for her, according to his means. Even when a woman is richer than her husband, her wealth does not deprive her of her right to be supported by him. If he takes advantage of her wealth in order to leave his duty unfulfilled, without having first secured her consent to this arrangement, then he is accountable for his misdeed. It is open to her to seek divorce on grounds of her not being supported by her husband. An Islamic court will have no hesitation to issue an order nullifying the marriage if the husband will not honour his responsibility.
It may be useful to add here that an unmarried woman also does not need to work for her living. She is entitled to be supported by her parents or her immediate relatives, such as her brothers. However, if a woman decides to work, Islam does not stop her from doing so.
It is important to know what rights and duties become applicable when a woman takes up employment. It is common knowledge that Islam considers a woman equal to man with regard to the rights of ownership and disposal of property as well as conducting her own business transactions and commercial dealings.
Therefore, when a woman earns something from her work, her earnings belong totally to her. If she is unmarried, her father cannot claim her earnings as his own. Similarly, a woman’s husband cannot put any claim to her earnings.
It may be suggested here that when a married woman goes out to work, she leaves her household duties unattended. Therefore, the husband is entitled, or so it is claimed, at least to a share of the salary or earnings of his wife. We have to examine this argument a little more carefully.
The duties of a wife toward her husband, according to Islamic law, are well defined. They do not include doing any cleaning, ironing, cooking or any other household work. Marriage is a contractual relationship which allows a man and woman to fulfil their desire in a legitimate way. If a woman takes an undertaking which prevents her from meeting that responsibility, then her husband has the right to prevent that undertaking.
Someone may ask at this point: Who is then to do the housework? The answer is twofold: If we are speaking strictly from the points of view of rights and duties, it is not the duty of the woman to do the housework in her husband’s home. If he wants that work done, he has to see to it that it is done. Life is not all about rights and duties. There is much more in the marital relationship than duties and rights. There is what Islam terms “companionship based on goodwill”. It is under this heading that he duties and responsibilities of the family are divided between the husband and wife. When we ask for guidelines on this particular point, they are readily available.
At a certain stage, there was some disagreement between Fatimah, the Prophet’s daughter and her husband, Ali who was the Prophet’s cousin. They presented their case before him, requesting him to define their responsibilities for them. The Prophet (Pbuh) said to his daughter; “You do the work that must be done inside the home, and he does what needs to be done outside.” This division of the family work is both fair and practical.
What we may deduce from all this is that if a woman does not do the work that has to be done inside the family home, she fails in meeting the requirement of companionship and goodwill. It is open to her husband to divorce her if she persistently refuses to do it. She may argue there it is much more to family life than strict duties.
When a woman wants to go out to work, her husband may prevent her from doing so if he feels that her job will seriously affect the family, especially with regard to the upbringing of the children. However, if she was working when they got married, and he has not indicated to her at the time of his proposal that he wants her to quit her job, this is taken as consent on his part to her working. He may not withdraw that consent after marriage. It is not open to him then to ask her to leave her job. If she refuses, she is within her rights. This is absolutely fair, because the fact that he has not made his intention clear to her about her continued working is regarded as agreement to the situation which obtained before their marriage.
As for the salary she receives from her work, or indeed her earnings, these belong to her. She may determine how she uses her income. If she wants to help her own family with part or all of her income, she is only being dutiful and she will be rewarded by Allah for being so.
The husband cannot take advantage of his wife. To claim that what she earns belongs to him is absolutely unjust. He cannot justify if in any way. If she does not agree to give it to him, he is taking it unlawfully. He may not treat it as his own money. He must obtain her permission before taking it. If she does not give him that permission, he must not touch it. Some people may suggest that since both husband and wife are working, they should share the family expenses. The answer to this suggestion is that this is possible only by mutual agreement. What we have to understand is that the husband has no rightful claim to what his wife may earn or own. If she willingly gives him something of it, he is welcome to have it. If she refuses, he has no claim to it. If he hustles or pressures or cajoles her in order to obtain something from her, he is taking it unjustly and he will be punished by Allah for doing so.
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