brotherubaid
11-02-2010, 09:39 PM
The same things that changed ALi al tammimi and sheih faisal , the root is the same, same story over and over agian same least common denominator
if u wana know the truth n be warned from it
www.takfiris.com
see how ali al tammimi changed n see what are the causes of this epidemic
Liek sheikh ubaid al jabiree pointed out in his refutation of al awlaki, he poinetd out that he got his ideologies from america itself and from jail , i wont be surprised if he was mislead and misguided by the west to do their dirty work , while not being aware of it and actually thinking he is doing a great good deed, subahNAllah! Allah knows best.
But regardless the guy is completely misguided, he has recently allowed the killing of civilains , like the christmans day bombing the underware bomber n all saying its prmissible,
Now does awlaki ahve some good leactures? yes he does, does he have soem goood serines that some has benefitted from , yes he has , but is the guy NOW a completely misguided and misleading individual , Yes he sure is and we should all stay well away from him and his audios,
More then FOUR senior scholars have refuted hima nd warned the ummah from him
we should listen to them yes if u have a soft spot of awlaki coz u probably benefitted from him in any way, Then know that people change, those who revolted against ali and uthamaan radi allahu anhuma nd eventually KILLED them were not born misguided n khawaairj , THEY CHNAGED , people change , we cant go on blindly following n supporting PEOPLE even when cleary they have changed and been mislead and have turned into filthy devils! we should not be obligated to support n stand up for such peopel , our first n foremost obligation should be to ALLAH , his messenger sala lahu alihi wa sallam and to our deen, any one who opposes it should be boycoted, left , and warned agaisnt , no one is free of errors and we dont ahve to follow people in their errors and follwo our desires, we have to follow the beautifl deen that is compete and has no place for any such misguided individuals that are out to bring destruction not only on to muslims but alos to non muslims civilians and may Allah save us all.
For any one who wants to read the truth and what the scholars ahve said, he can check the link , this is not everyting that is out there about him There is more, and he has went on to show his true colors and has made even more severe claims than the ones for which he was refuted, a clearly misguided individual, may Allah guide him or save us from his evil with What ever Allah wills!
http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmes...=9&Topic=10039brotherubaid
11-03-2010, 09:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
I don't know what Alwalki has done of late but I have listened to a great deal of his lectures and I truly enjoyed them..
we don't have to accept 100% of what any scholar says, scholars and imams aren't God nor are they prophets, everyone makes mistakes.. there is no point to mar the entire achievement of someone because he gave one questionable lecture.. surely we all have our days.
I truly haven't heard anything by him advocating the killing of innocents, most of his lectures had to do with stories of old, one of particular interest to me was the white bull and Allah is promising us victory.
may Allah swt yihdeeh he is still our Muslim brother..
:w:
May Allah reward u sister, i said in my very first post that YES the guy DID have some good lectures n all, but that does not make him a scholar, He is not even close to an scholar nor does he have anyachievements, yes he was teaching and giving dawah untill his methodology got corrupted and he became what he is now, Sister people change , like i said the people who killed Uthmaan radi Allahu anhu n Ali were not born misguided , they were living in the best times around sahaba n all, but yes their methodology changed n they hurt the ummah in the worst possible ways, so just as their lifes BEFORE they changed cannot help them or count towards anything, same is the case with awlaki, yes a couple of good lectures n cds no doubt but then he changed to the worts of the worsts, If u want to read sister the links have been posted, when people change n become a threat first of all to Islam n muslims n the world in general we cannot back them n suppor and love them just coz they have done something good in the past, It means absolutely notthing.
And it not about "one questionable lecture" Its about his new way, his new ideology , his new self ,
and also If u have not heard him approving of killing the civilans, or making takfeer of the rulers n calling for jihaad in saudi arabia n muslim lands then that does not mean he did not say it all n call towards it. U ar eonly human u missed it, but it clearly shows that the guy is a threat and may Allah save us all from his evil.
Yes his lectures were intresting, but sister tell me one thing honestly, Would u or we even know there was an awlaki if it wasnt for his good english skills?
The guy would be a no body if it wasnt for english language, the problem is youth in general n in west particular do not speak arabic n have to turn to those who can give them knowledge in english n other languages, so they have very limited options n when someone like that comes along they generate huge fans bases , not coz they are knowledgable or qualified, just coz they can fluently speak english.
anyway may Allah make us from those who can accept the truth and move on....
may Allah guide him , or save us from his evil with What ever He subahanhu wa taala wills.
format_quote Originally Posted by
shuraimfan4lyf
:wa:
Ameen to the dua
I agree, he is very knowledgeable and his lectures are beautiful. Unfortunately, they are many scholars who are going around making takfir and calling them Kharijtes on anyone who speaks against the king or calling for Jihad. may Allah guide us all.
At this day and age, there is no Khalifah, or a Islamic Government. I agree that there is no Jihad in Palestine or Iraq. Hamas is from the "Ikhwaan". That is really dangerous. Their goals are politically based not Islamically even though it seems like they are fighting against the Jews. There are some shabaab who are willing to take part in real jihad, but Hamas has toppled their plans and even jailed some of them.
The only real Jihad right now is in Chechenya. I agree that the Kings in Muslim lands should be obeyed even though they are puppets of the west. Because there were many ulamaa before who lived in lands which was ruled by Kings.
:sl:
Akhi the more u post the more u are exposing ur ignorance n ur ignorance of the deen in general and these matters in particular.
He is NOT very knowledgable, There are Millions out theer more knowledgable than him.
His lectures WERE beautiful , the few ones that are out there, but then again any one who had read any good book on seerah or tafseer n stories of prophets could give better lectures than him PROVIDED they could speak english.
Nor him nor anyone in the west will ever even come close to the scholars that u said were going around making takfeer and calling peolple khawaarij
Akhi our deen is complete, and the most knowledgable are the scholars , they know better than me n you what the rulings are and when one becomes a kharijte and when one is to be declared a kafir, but i have not heard any takfeer from any of the scholars, The only takfeer u hear is fom awlaki n his likes of the whole ummah, not just individuals, and yes of individulas and rulers as well.
When the scholars speak about the issue , they speak with knowledge n insight n wisdom, they dont just run their mouths like me n u, they know what they are talking about.
Who is a kharijte , well like i said our deen in complete n its wel known who is considered to be a khawarij, and the most knowledgable of that offcourse are the scholars , they know their characteristics , their ideology, their way and thougt , their manhaj , u name it, these things are not hidden the scholars from the salaf nbest three generation have written on the matter and the Deen of Allah has been preserved and we are upon clarity.
Its only the people that are not willing to accept the truth and accpet that their loved speakers have fallen into khurooj n calling towards it so they actually go and slander the noble scholars of labelling people.
u should read about the rulers, the kings, their rights, our rights towards them , our stance towards them , read about Jihaad , read what the salaf and great imams n ulama have said about rulers n then look at the statment u made, so if anyone speaks against the king we should leave them alone, what is he is calling towards fighting him? ohh i wish imam ahmed n ibn taymiah were here , read their lifes n see how they dealt with more sever situations than the ones we are facing n how was their behaviour. So u say scholars rush and call anyone who calls towards jihaad or speaks against the king a kharijte? its first of all a great lie, second of all where did we all go wrong, who is wrong? teh scholar or the one making the mistake of taling ill of the rulers n revolting n "Jihaad" that is actually "fassad"? so u ahve no problem with the clearly misguided individuals but u have a problem with the scholars who are trying to correct n advise n save the ummah from their fithnah? who are inheritors of the Prophets?
We are having the exact opposite effect.
Who is calling for jihaad? awlaki? is he calling for jihaad? does he know the islamic rulings n the right methodology f jihaad? who else ? bin laden ? is his way of jihaad an Islamic jihaad? lets see, if u wanted to pray for example , wouldnt u learn how to pray first n pray the way Islam has taugt us to pray, doing anything more or less would not be the right way of praying isnt it? well isnt jihaad a great form of worship? would u need the knowledge of jihhaad n do it the right way??
well do these soo called callers towards jihhad have the knowledge , insight , clarity and ideology of Islamic jihaad? havent the Prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam N SAHABA N TABIEEN N THE GREAT mujahids shown us how to do it, The dos n the donts? woulds te mujahid need proper education n qualification or is it just about holdin n gun or plotting a bomb? is it as simple as that?
dont we have examples from their lifes on how to act in which situation, now if u needed to kill 50 muslims in order to kill one or two american troops would that be OK? coudl u attack them in such a place where there are humdreds of civiliand around and u know very well that hundreds will die and the heavily armed and armoured soliders or two might not even die.
what about situtaions like the underware bomb? woudl it be right to bring down a passenegr plane? how on earth can any one justify that, and when some one carries out and attempts such act and people approve of it and scholars speak on the issue u get mad? u say may Allah guide the scholar? are we allowd in isalm to kill such civilians ? what jihaad akhi?? this is fassad? and those who do this are misguided and khawarij. read akhi , read, see what the khawarij are
http://www.answering-extremism.com read furst get ur facts get ur knowledge n then judge.
do we need a jihaad inside saudi arabia? do we? now what would u say about those who are calling for such jihaad, wouldnt they be hawarij , n now when a scholar comes n says te individual claiming such claims is on the method of the khawarij u get mad? isnt that revolting against a muslim ruler n killing muslims, u are not mad at that or even concerned but u are mad at the scholar?
come on akhi, we all have to stand in front of Allah, i suggest u get ur knowledge first n then judge n see which side is right and why the scholars cat the way they do.
If notthig else read what sheikh ubaid al jaabiree said about awlaki , he did not say khawarij! he explained the issues n related things in detail , hopefully u will learn something from it and things will get clear to u
http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmes...=9&Topic=10039 Replyshuraimfan4lyf
11-03-2010, 10:41 PM
Allah knows the best. But I did hear that Hosni Mubarak and Mahmood Abbas are Christians. I cannot provice evidence, but I wouldn't be surprised if its true. and I am done with arguing about who is khawarij and who is not. Here are the Characteristics of a Khariji. I found it on another forum. Can someone find me the Hadith where it talks about the physical qualties of the Khawarij(ex: head shaved etc)
HISTORY OF KHAWAARIJ
Al-Khawarij is plural for “Kharij”, meaning one who rebels against the acknowledged Muslim ruler whom Islam obliges every Muslim to obey and not rebel against.
This definition of Al- Khawarij, which is taken from Islamic terminology, has become a trademark for the twelve thousand Muslims who rebelled against Caliph Ali bin Abi Talib, may Allah be pleased with him, and this includes all the groups that followed their way of understanding the religion.
These groups have since been known as “Al-Khawarij” even though they carried different names.
Among those groups are: Al- Muh’akkimah, Ash- Sharat, Al- ‘Haroriyyah, An- Nawa-sib, and Al- Mariqhah.
Al-Khawarij are the people whom the Messenger of Allah, Salla Allahu Alayhi Wasallam, mentioned when he said, what translated means, “A group will go astray during a time of division between Muslims. The closest among the adversaries (the side of Ali bin Abi Talib and the side of Mu’awiyah) to the Truth will kill them (the deviant group, Al-Khawarij).”
Also, the Messenger of Allah, Salla Allahu Alayhi Wasallam, said regarding a man who once accused him of injustice, “From among the offspring of this man there will rise a people who will read the Quran but it will not go beyond their throats (meaning it will not enter their hearts). They will kill Muslims and spare Idol-worshippers. They will deviate from Islam (as fast and clean) as an arrow pierces the game. If I live to witness their appearance, I will kill them as the people of ‘Aad (whom Allah utterly destroyed and annihilated because of their disbelief) were killed.” [Al-Bukhari & Muslim].
He further said, “Just before the end of time, young, idiotic people will rise. They will say words similar to (the good words) of the best people. They will recite the Quran, but it will not go beyond their throats. They will deviate from the religion as fast as an arrow pierces the game. If you meet them, kill them, for killing them will bring about a reward from Allah on the Day of Resurrection for whoever kills them.” [Al-Bukhari & Muslim].
The companions of the Messenger of Allah, Salla Allahu Alayhi Wasallam, were unanimous in their decision to fight Al-Khawarij. Also, the majority of the scholars of Islam state that it is an obligation to fight them.
Soon after they appeared as a distinct group, Al-Khawarij divided into seven groups, among them Al- Muh’akkimah who fought Ali bin Abi Talib.
Al-Khawarij accused Ali of Kufr and announced their animosity towards him. They departed to Haroraa’ and chose two men as their leaders, one to lead them in prayer and the other to lead their forces in battle. When Ali realized the danger posed by these people, he sent Abdullah Ibn Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, to debate them and expose their erroneous ways. Ibn Abbas argued with them and refuted the arguments supporting the positions they took. Many of them abandoned the camp of Al-’Haroriyyah and rejoined the camp of Caliph Ali bin Abi Talib.
However, their leaders and those who remained with them refused to abandon their rebellion against the righteous Khalifah, Ali. They announced that their campaign of war against their adversaries will continue. Ali bin Abi Talib then decided to meet them himself.
He called upon them to rejoin the ranks of the Khalifah and abandon their deviant ways. He also refuted their arguments and nullified their misguided way of understanding the religion.
However, they persisted in their defiance of the Khalifah and camped their forces at the area of An-Nahrawan.
On their way to An-Nahrawan, Al-Khawarij met Abdullah -- the son of Khabbab bin Al-Aratt, a noble companion of the Messenger Salla Allahu Alayhi Wasallam, and seized him. They asked him, “Who are you?” He replied, “I am Abdullah bin Khabbab, the companion of the Messenger Salla Allahu Alayhi Wasallam.” They said, “Narrate to us a Hadith you heard from your father who related it to the Messenger Salla Allahu Alayhi Wasallam.” He said, “I heard my father say, ‘The Messenger of Allah, Salla Allahu Alayhi Wasallam, said, ‘There will be a Fitnah (calamity and division) in which those who sit idle are better than those who walk, and those who walk are better than those who rush. Therefore, whoever has no choice but to kill or be killed, let him be killed and let him not be the killer.’” They asked him, “What do you say regarding Abu Bakr and Umar?” Abdullah said good words of praise regarding them. They said, “What do you say with regards to At- Ta’hkim (when Ali and Mu’awiyah reverted to some of the companions to judge between them in their dispute, according to the Quran and Sunnah)?”
He said, “I say that Ali has better knowledge in the Book of Allah, is more careful with the religion, and has more wisdom than you!” They said, “You do not follow the Truth and Guidance. Rather, you follow men according to their fame.” They then said to him, “This Quran (which you carry) around your neck commands us to kill you.” He said, “Whoever the Quran preserves his life, you preserve his life in turn.
And whoever the Quran sheds his blood, give him death in turn.” Then, they brought Abdullah bin Khabbab closer to the river, and one of them, Musmi’ bin Qhadali, slit his throat. Then, they entered his house and killed his children and also his wife, who was pregnant, and slit open her stomach.
When Ali bin Talib heard what Al-Khawarij did to Abdullah bin Khabbab and his family, he led an expedition of four thousand soldiers to arrest those who committed this atrocity. When he reached their area, he asked them to deliver those who killed Abdullah. They said to Ali’s emissary, “We all killed him. And, furthermore, if we catch you (meaning
Ali) we will kill you too.” Then, Ali prepared to fight them.
But before the battle commenced, he asked them, “What do you dislike as regards my matter?” They said, “We hate that you, when we fought with you on the Day (incident) of Al-Jamal, allowed for us their (the side of ‘Aaishah, Tal’hah, and Az-Zubair) possessions after we defeated them but did not allow us to seize their women and children as slaves. Why did you allow us to shed their blood and seize their possessions but not their women and children?” Ali said, “I only allowed you to seize their possession in return for their looting the Muslim treasury in the city of Basrah before I came to meet them (to convince them to end their rebellion). As for their women and children, they did not fight against us and they, therefore, still enjoyed the rights of Muslims who live in the Islamic state. Also, if I had allowed their women for you, who among you would have liked to take ‘Aaishah (the Prophet’s wife) as his share?” They became ashamed and silent.
Thereafter, Ali refuted all their arguments and, as a consequence, eight thousand of them rejoined his camp. However, four thousand of them insisted on fighting, led by Abdullah bin Wahb Ar-Rasibi and Thu Al-Khuwaysirah (also known as Thu Ath-Thadiyyah), whose name was Hurqus bin Zaid.
Soon afterwards, the battle between Ali and Al-Khawarij commenced, and Ali’s army defeated and killed them all except nine people.
After the battle ended, Ali ordered his soldiers to search for Thu Ath- Thadiyyah, who was then found among the dead. Ali then said, “Allah and His Messenger have said the truth,” because before he passed away, the Prophet Salla Allahu Alayhi Wasallam had told Ali that he should search for Thu Ath-Thadiyyah among the dead when he meets these rebels.
This sect of Al-Khawarij, also known as Al-Mu’hakkimah, considers Uthman, Ali, ‘Aaishah, Tal’hah, and Az-Zubair as Kuffar. They also oblige the removal or assassination of the Muslim ruler who does not agree with their way of understanding the religion.
Furthermore, they accept the Muslim Ummah being leaderless, allow shedding the blood of the women and children of their adversaries, consider those who fall into major sins as Kuffar, and prohibit marrying the women of those who do not follow them, because they consider them also as Kuffar.
Also, among the sub-sects of Al-Khawarij is Al-Bayhasiyyah. They are the followers of Abu Bayhas, Al- Haytham bin Jabir. They claim that knowledge is only knowing Allah and what the Messenger of Allah, Salla Allahu Alayhi Wasallam, was sent with. They consider whoever falls into an action not knowing if it permissible or forbidden as Kafir, since he lacks the “knowledge”.
Al-Azariqhah is another Khawarij sub-sect. They are the followers of Nafi’ bin Al-Azraqh who was known as Abu Rashid. When he first appeared, he rebelled against Abdullah bin Az-Zubayr -- a companion of the Messenger of Allah, Salla Allahu Alayhi Wasallam. Many people from Oman and Al-Yamamah also joined Nafi’. They later moved to Persia and took over the area of Al- Ahwaz after they killed Abdullah bin Az-Zubayr’s deputy in that area. They soon controlled Al-Ahwaz and adjacent areas in Persia.
As is the case with other deviant sects, Al-Azariqhah consider their adversaries as Kuffar. They consider those who join their ranks as believers and all others who do not as Kuffar. Yet, they believe that whoever joins their ranks must first be tested to prove his allegiance by ordering him to kill a Muslim captive. Otherwise, he would be killed himself. Also, Al- Azariqhah permit killing the women and children of their adversaries and consider those adversaries to be bound to dwell in Hell for eternity along with their women and children. They also consider the areas that do not join them to be areas of Kufr. Furthermore, they abandon stoning the adulterer, compel women to pray and fast while in their menses, consider Muslims who commit major sins as Kuffar, and allow shedding the blood of Muslims who do not join their ranks. Yet, they prohibit shedding the blood of Jews and Christians who live under Muslim control!
This is just as the Messenger of Allah, Salla Allahu Alayhi Wasallam, described them that, “They kill Muslims and spare idol-worshippers.” Also, Al-Azariqhah would cut the hand and arm of the thief, while Islam commands cutting the thief’s hand only from the wrist. They also claim that the Ayah,
And of mankind there is he whose speech may please you (O Mohammad) in this worldly life.[2:204], describes Ali bin Abi Talib, and that the Ayah,
And of mankind is he who would sell himself, seeking the Pleasure of Allah. [2:207], describes Ibn Muljim, the cursed criminal who killed Ali, may Allah be pleased with him.
Najdah bin Amir was the leader of yet another Khawarij subsect called “An-Najdaat”, which established its stronghold in Al-Yamamah. They believe that it is an act of Kufr to consider as Kuffar those followers who could not physically join their forces. They also believe that those who agree with their beliefs will not enter Hell, and if they are punished in Hell, it will be because of their other sins and not because they joined their sect. They also give their loyalty to their followers who fall into major sins but consider insisting on committing minor sins as Kufr. Furthermore, they do not consider those who persist on committing major sins as Kuffar. In addition, they allow shedding the blood of their neighbors as well as their adversaries.
Another sub-sect of Al- Khawarij is As-Safriyyah, followers of Ziyad bin Al-Asfar. This group does not consider as Kuffar those who believe in their way but do not join their ranks. Also, they do not consider the children of their adversaries as Kuffar or that they will abide in Hell forever. They differ, however, on whether those who commit major sins are Kuffar or not. Some of them consider such sinners as Kuffar. Others, on the other hand, disagree, except in the case of those caught committing major sins and are thus punished for these sins by the rulers.Some of them claim that major sins that have prescribed punishment will not cause whoever commits them to become a Kafir, while actions that do not have a prescribed punishments, such as abandoning the obligatory prayer or Az-Zakat, will cause one to become a Kafir. They also allow women to assume leadership positions.
Another Khawarij sub-sect, “Al-Ajaridah”, are followers of Al- Karim bin Ajrad. This group disowns their own children before they reach the age of puberty. After the child becomes an adult, they oblige calling him unto Islam and teaching him matters of the religion. They do not allow shedding the blood of Ahlu As- Sunnah except if they meet them in battle. They also consider those who commit major sins as Kuffar.
Ath-Tha’alibah is yet another Khawarij sub-sect. This group was started by Tha’labah bin Mashkan, who used to be a follower of the Ajaridah before he started his own sect. This group later divided into six sects, the first being the followers of Tha’labah himself who persisted on his path. As for those who formed their own sects after they were followers of Ath-Tha’alibah, they include Al- Ma’badiyyah, followers of Ma’bad bin Abdurra’hman, who declare other Tha’alibah as Kuffar and who used to take Az-Zakat due on the possessions of their rich slaves. They also include Al-Akhnasiyyah, followers of Al- Akhnas bin Qays, who differed with Ath-Tha’alibah when they hesitated to call those who might appear to be disbelievers, yet conceal their Islam, as Kuffar. These sects also include followers of Rashid At-Tawsi, who were called Ar-Rashidiyyah. This sect disowned all those who disagree with them. There is also Al-Mukarramiyyah, followers of Abu Mukarram Al-’Ijli. This group considers those who fall into major sins as Kuffar because they are ignorant about Allah.Again, this group also considers those who disagree with them as Kuffar, and their adversaries from among Ath- Tha’alibah considered them Kuffar in turn. The sixth Tha’alibah sub-sect was called Ash-Shaybaniyyah, followers of Shayban bin Salam. This is the sect which Abu Muslim Al-Khurasani, the leader of the Abbasid armies, fought and defeated, killing Shayban and capturing the rest of his followers. This was the end of Ath- Tha’alibah who denied Allah’s Attributes and also resembled Allah with the creation.
Another major sub-sect of Al-Khawarij is the one still known as “Al- Ibadhiyyah”, who are the followers of Abdullah bin Ibadh Al-Murri. He permitted Al-Ibadhiyyah to marry women from Ahlu As-Sunnah and accepted the testimony of Ahlu As- Sunnah even against the Ibadhiyyah Themselves because they consider that the general name of Islam still bonds them together.
This group only allowed the shedding the blood of Ahlu As-Sunnah in battle. They fell into confusion when they considered their adversaries as Kuffar (disbelievers), but not Mushrikeen (polytheist).
Al-Ibadhiyyah also divided into six sects.
The first is Al-Yazidiyyah, followers of Yazid bin Anas who claimed that another Prophet will be sent for non-Arabs and that his law will replace Prophet Mohammad’s Law. They also claimed that Arabs who attest that there is no god except Allah and that Mohammad is His Messenger are believers even if they do not actually embrace and abide by Islamic laws. Therefore, according to this false claim, Arab Jews and Christians are considered believers if they only declare the Shahadatayn (the Testimony) with their tongues.
The second sub-sect of Al- Ibadhyyah is known as Al-Hafsiyyah, followers of Al-Hafs bin Abi Al- Miqdam. They claim that belief is merely knowing Allah and that this suffices if one disbelieves in the Prophets, the angels, Paradise, Hell, Resurrection, and Reckoning. They consider those who know Allah to be saved from Shirk even if they commit all types of major sins.
The third Ibadhi sub-sect is known as Al-’Harithiyyah, followers of Al-’Harith bin Yazid. This sect denies Predestination and Allah’s Will and condones acts of worship that are not meant for the sake of Allah. The last three Ibadhi sub-sects are Al- Ibrahimiyyah, Al-Maymoniyyah, and Al-Waqifiyyah.
We have shown how this deviant sect, Al-Khawarij, divided among themselves, and we also clarified the major beliefs of different Khawarij sub-sects.
From this short summary of their beliefs and practices, we now know the imminent danger of their beliefs, many of which still flourish among ignorant Muslims in the present time.
The beliefs of Al-Khawarij have always been and still pose grave danger to Islam and Muslims.
We ask Allah for protection and safety from the misguided beliefs of Al-Khawarij and their likes, for He is the All-Hearer and the only One Who fulfills the Du’aa’.
THE GREAT DEBATE of Ibn Abbas’s
The story of Ibn Abbas’s (May Allah be pleased with him and his Father) debate against them is in the Mustadrik of Hakam (2/150-152) in an authentic chain and upon the conditions of acceptance of Imam Muslim.
In it is the statement of Ibn Abbas:
أتيتُكم من عند صحابة النَّبيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم من المهاجرين والأنصار، لأبلِّغكم ما يقولون،المخبرون بما يقولون، فعليهم نزل القرآن، وهم أعلمُ بالوحي منكم، وفيهم أنزل، وليس فيكم منهم أحد
“I come to you from the Companions of the Prophet ( صلى الله عليه وسلم ) from amongst the Muhajireen and Ansaar to inform you of what they say. They were present when the Qur’an was revealed, and they are more knowledgeable about the revelation than you are and were present at its descending, and not a single one of you is from them. So some of them said: لا تخاصموا قريشاً Do not dispute with a person from the Quraish because
Allah says: بَلْ هُمْ قَوْمٌ خَصِمُونَ But they are a quarrelsome people Ibn Abbas (May Allah be pleased with him and his Father) said:
وأتيتُ قوماً لم أرَ قوماً قطُّ أشدَّ اجتهاداً منهم، مسهمة وجوههم من السَّهر، كأنَّ أيديهم وركبهم تثنى عليهم، فمضى من
حضر
“I never saw a people striving harder in doing deeds. Their faces were marked with lines from abstaining from sleep. It was as if their hands and knees praised them.
So those who were present proceeded, and some of them said,
لنكلِّمنَّه ولننظرنَّ ما يقول
“By Allah we will speak to him and debate what he says”I asked:
أخبروني ماذا نقمتم على ابن عمِّ رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وصهره والمهاجرين والأنصار؟
“Why do you have resentment against the cousin of the Messenger of Allah ( صلى الله عليه وسلم ) his in-laws, the Muhajireen and Ansaar? They said:” (because of) ثلاثاً Three things” I asked: ما هنَّ؟ “What are they?”
They said: أمَّا إحداهنَّ فإنَّه حكم الرِّجالَ في أمر الله، “As for the first one it is that he made men arbitrators in the matters of Allah. And Allah said:
إِنِ الْحُكْمُ إِلاَّ لِلّهِ Verily! The decision rests only with Allah [Yusuf: 67]
I said: هذه واحدة “ This is one” And they said:
ولَم يسْب ولَم يغنَم، فلئن كان الذي قاتل كفَّاراً لقد حلَّ سبيُهم وغنيمتهم،
ولئن كانوا مؤمنين ما حلَّ قتالُهم
“As for the other, it is that he fought and did not take captives or booty of war. If the ones being fought are disbelievers, then indeed it is permissible to take them captive and take the booty of war, and if they were believers it would not be permissible to fight them.
I said: هذه ثنتان، فما الثالثة؟ “ That’s two, so what is the third one?”
They said: إنَّه مَحا نفسَه من أمير المؤمنين، فهو أمير الكافرين “He wiped out the title of ‘Amir al-Mu’mineen’ for himself, so he is the Amir of the disbelievers.”
I said: أعندكم سوى هذا؟ “Do you have anything others than these? They said: حسبنا هذا “ This suffices us” So I said to them:
أرأيتم إن قرأت عليكم من كتاب الله ومن سنَّة نبيِّه صلى الله عليه وسلم
ما يُردُّ به قولُكم أتَرضَون؟
“If I read of the Qur’an and Sunnah that which refutes these claims, will you be pleased? They said: نعم! “Yes” So I said:
أمَّا قولكم: حكَّم الرِّجال في أمر الله، فأنا أقرأ عليكم ما قد رُدَّ حكمُه إلى الرِّجال في ثمن ربع درهم، في أرنب ونحوها من الصيد
As for your statement: ‘A man has arbitrated in the matter of Allah’, I will read to you what has given the power of arbitration to men concerning a killed rabbit and the likes of that which is hunted which price is worth a quarter of a dirham. Allah says:
( يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ لاَ تَقْتُلُواْ الصَّيْدَ وَأَنتُمْ حُرُمٌ ))
إلى قوله: (( يَحْكُمُ بِهِ ذَوَا عَدْلٍ مِّنكُمْ ))،
O you who believe! Kill not game while you are in a state of Ihram (for Hajj or 'Umrah), and whosoever of you kills it intentionally, the penalty is an offering, brought to the Ka'bah, of an eatable animal (i.e. sheep, goat, cow, etc.) equivalent to the one he killed, as adjudged by two just men among you; [Maidah: 95]
فنشدتكم الله: أحُكم الرِّجال في أرنب ونحوها من الصيد أفضل أم حكمهم في دمائهم وصلاح ذات بينهم؟!
وأن تعلموا أنَّ الله لو شاء لَحَكم ولَم يُصيِّر ذلك إلى الرِّجال، وفي المرأة وزوجها
I ask you by Allah, is the arbitration of men concerning a rabbit and its like of hunted animals better than their arbitration regarding bloodshed and reconciliation between themselves? And you are aware that if Allah wished he would have decided the matters himself and not left it to men. And concerning a woman and her husband Allah says:
وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ شِقَاقَ بَيْنِهِمَا فَابْعَثُواْ حَكَماً مِّنْ أَهْلِهِ وَحَكَماً مِّنْ أَهْلِهَا إِن يُرِيدَا إِصْلاَحاً يُوَفِّقِ اللّهُ بَيْنَهُمَا
"If you fear separation between them, appoint an arbitrator from his family and from her family; if they both wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation" [Nis’aa: 35]
فجعل الله حكم الرِّجال سنة مأمونة، أخَرَجتُ من هذه؟
So Allah has made the judgement of men a reliable Sunnah. Have I convinced you on this?” They replied: : نعم! “Yes” (I said to them):
قاتَل ولم يسْب ولم يغنم، أَتَسبُون أمَّكم عائشة، ثمَّ تستحلُّون منها ما يُستحلُّ من غيرها؟!
فلئن فعلتم لقد كفرتُم، وهي أمُّكم، ولئن قلتُم: ليست أمَّنا لقد كفرتُم
Regarding your saying ‘You fought them, but did not seize their booty nor capture them,’ Can you capture your Mother 'Aisha then make permissible concerning her what is permissibility concerning other female slaves.
If you say that she can be captured and treated like any of the other female slaves, you have surely committed disbelief, because she is your mother. If you say that ‘she is not our mother’ than you have also committed disbelief, for Allah says:
النَّبِيُّ أَوْلَى بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْ أَنفُسِهِمْ وَأَزْوَاجُهُ أُمَّهَاتُهُمْ
The Prophet is closer to the believers than their ownselves, and his wives are their (believers') mothers (as regards respect and marriage). [Ahzab: 6]
فأنتم تدورون بين ضلالَتين، أيّهما صرتُم إليها صرتُم إلى ضلالة، فنظر بعضُهم إلى بعض،
You are thus hovering between two deviations. Whichever one you go towards, you go towards misguidance.”
So some of them began to look at each other.I asked: أخرجتُ من هذه؟ “Have I convinced you?” They replied: نعم! “ Yes” (I said to them):
مَحا اسمَه من أمير المؤمنين، فأنا آتيكم بمَن ترضَون وأريكم، قد سمعتُم أنَّ النَّبيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يوم الحُديبية كاتَبَ سُهيل بن عمرو وأبا سفيان بن حرب،
فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لأمير المؤمنين
اكتب يا علي: هذا ما اصطلح عليه محمد رسول الله، فقال المشركون:
لا والله! لو نعلم أنَّك رسول الله ما قاتلناك،
فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم : اللَّهم إنَّك تعلمُ أنِّي رسول الله، اكتب يا علي:
هذا ما اصطلح عليه محمد بن عبد الله، فوالله لرسول الله خيرٌ من علي،
وما أخرجه من النبوة حين محا نفسَه
And as for your statement that he wiped out the title of ‘Amir al- Mu’mineen’ for himself, I will show and bring you proof by one whom you are pleased with. I heard on the Day of Hudaybiyyah, when the treaty was being drafted by Suhail bin Amr and Abu Sufyan bin Harb, the Messenger of Allah ( صلى الله عليه وسلم ) say to the Amir ul Mu’mineen: "Write O’ 'Ali: ‘This is what has been agreed upon by Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah’." The Mushrikeen objected to this saying: "No, By Allah, if we believed that you were the Messenger of Allah, we would not have fought you." Upon this, the Messenger of Allah ( صلى الله عليه وسلم ) said: O’ Allah you know that I am the Messenger of Allah. Write O’ Ali ‘This is what has been agreed upon by Muhammad bin Abdullah.’ …For I swear by Allah that the Messenger of Allah ( صلى الله عليه وسلم ) is better than Ali, and erasing his title did not remove his Prophethood.
Abdullah Bin Abbas (May Allah be Pleased with him and his Father) said:
: فرجع من القوم ألفان وقُتل سائرُهم على ضلالة
So (after this), two-thousand of them (the Khawaarij) returned to the truth and the rest of them were killed upon falsehood.
THERE IS ENOUGH BENEFIT FOR ANYONE WHO HAS INTELLECT.
Shaykhul Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah said,
فإن عامة ضلال أهل البدع كان بهذا السبب، فإنهم صاروا يحملون كلام الله ورسوله على ما يدعون أنه دال عليه، وليس الأمر كذلك
“Majority of innovations have their roots in misunderstanding of Islaamic texts, for those who established innovations had wrongful perception of the Word of Allaah which they used to back up their innovations.”
The scholars say,
من اتباع المتشابهات الأخذ بالمطلقات قبل النظر في مقيِّداتها، أو في العمومات من غير تأمل في مخصِّصاتها، وكذلك العكس بأن يكون النص مقيدًا فيُطلق، أو خاصًا فيُعمّ بالرأي من غير دليل سواه، فإن هذا المسلك رميٌ في عماية واتباع للهوى بالدليل، وحينئذ فالخلل في هذه المسالك الاجتهادية يوقع في أخطاء فاحشة عقائدية وفرعية
“It is part of following the ambiguous evidences to take to absolute evidences before looking at its restricted aspects or to take to general rules and disregard its particular aspects like making particularized or restricted evidence a general or unrestricted one or vice versa without any tangible evidences. This may cause grave mistakes.
For instance, the Khawaarij who revolted against ‘Alee said, “There is no judge save Allaah”, misinterpreting the Word of Allaah, “The judgement is but Allaah’s.” They thereby gave this verse a wrong meaning.
The Khawaarij sect was later influenced by scholastic theology and its principles became very close to those of the Jahmite and Mu’tazilite sects.
They center upon the following matters:
(1) Imputing kufr upon ‘Ali, ‘Uthmaan and other sahaabah ﻦﻴﻌﻤﺟأ ﻢﻬﻨﻋ ﷲا ﻲﺿر .
(2) The right to rebel and fight the Muslim rulers who may err or sin.
(3) Justifying the rebellion and fight against disobedient Muslims (rulers and/or ruled) and that it is permissible for them to secede from the general body of the Muslims.
(4) They believe that the Qur’aan is created. However, the Qur’aan is the literal Word of Allaah Who uttered it in letter and sound and which He Spoke to Jibreel عليه وسلم , directly without a mediator, and who then brought it down to the Prophet Muhammad ( صلى الله عليه وسلم ). The Qur’aan is neither the word of Jib reel nor the word of Prophet Muhammad ( صلى الله عليه وسلم ).
(5) They distort the meanings of Allaah’s Attributes by resorting to figurative interpretation.
(6) Like the twelver Shee’ites and other deviant sects, they deny that the believers will see Allaah on the Day of Resurrection. This contradicts what is asserted in the Qur’aan and authentic sunnah .
(7) Imputing kufr on the Muslims who commit major sins.
(8) The majority of the Khawaarij deny the actual punishment in the grave that Allaah inflicts upon those who deserve it.
(9) They speak ill about the scholars الطعنُ في العلماء See the incident with Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم and Ibn Abbaas, how they treated them, this is the common amongst the mis-guided youths of today, ignorant, foolish in understanding.
The aforementioned are some of the major characteristics of the Khawaarij.
I intended to give the reader some background about this very dangerous sect and which has influenced many Muslim groups and parties in our times leading to bloodshed in many parts of the Muslim World. The bloody confrontations are hard to stop in some places and that has distorted the view of Islam in many parts of the world. The truth, however, is emerging and will inshaa’ Allaah completely emerge on the hands of the true followers of Islam who are working hard to correct this problem with the good word without compromising the ‘aqeedah nor the manhaj . We should be able to present the truth without imitating the kufaar and their ways. In this respect, the words of Imaam Maalik ) ﷲا ﻪﻤﺣر ( are remembered: “Nothing will benefit this ummah to come except that which benefited its early generations .” Related by Imaam Ibn ‘Abdil-Barr in At-Tamheed (23:1).
This refers to the correct creed, methodology and righteous deeds. Another point of benefit is that the Muslim should be aware that the principles of many of these sects are still alive and propagated by certain individuals and/or groups, and accordingly the believer must be cautious
And what shows the danger of extremism and deviation from the truth and staying away from what Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah is upon, is the statement of the Prophet ( صلى الله عليه وسلم ) from the Hadith of Jabir (May Allah be pleased with him):
إنَّ أخوفَ ما أخاف عليكم رجل قرأ القرآن،
حتى إذا رُئيت بهجته عليه وكان ردءاً للإسلام،
انسلخ منه ونبذه وراء ظهره، وسعى على جاره بالسيف ورماه بالشرك،
قلت: يا نبيَّ الله! أيُّهما أولى بالشرك: الرامي أو المرمي؟ قال: بل الرامي
Indeed what I fear most for you is that a man reads the Qur’an until magnificence is seen upon him and he is a support for Islam and it is withdrawn from him and he throws it behind his back and strives against his neighbor with the sword and he accusing him of shirk. I said O’ Prophet of Allah, which one is more worthy of (the accusation of) shirk, the accuser or the accused? He said: The accuser . [Collected by Imam Al-Bukhari in his Taarikh and Abu Ya’ala and Ibn Hibban and Al-Bazaar. See Sahih Al-Albani 3201]
The Prophet ( صلى الله عليه وسلم ) said:
ومَن خرج على أمَّتي يضرب برَّها وفاجرَها، ولا يتحاش من مؤمنها،
ولا يفي لذي عهد عهدَه،فليس منِّي ولستُ منه
“Whoever rebels against my Ummah and fights the righteous and unrighteous of them, does not avoid its believers and does not fulfill his obligation to whom he has a contract, then they are not from me and I am not from them . [Muslim 1848]
Ibn Al-Qayyim said,
نهيُ النبيِّ عن قتال الأمراء والخروج على الأئمة وإن ظلموا أو جاروا ما أقاموا الصلاة، سدًّا لذريعة الفسادِ العظيم والشرِّ الكثير بقتالهم كما هو الواقع، فإنّه حصل بسبب قتالهم والخروج عليهم أضعافُ أضعافِ ما هم عليه، والأمّة في
بقايا تلك الشرور إلى الآن
"The Prophet forbidden taking arms against the rulers and revolting against them even if they were unjust as long as long as they established prayers. He said this in order to prevent great corruption and evil that could emanate from taking arms against them.
The reality has shown that taking arms and revolting against them had brought harm and evil that that was much greater than their corruption."
While speaking about undesirability of forbidding vices if that could lead to a greater vice he said,
ومن تأمّل ما جرى على الإسلام في الفِتن الكبار والصِّغار رآها مِن إضاعةِ هذا الأصلِ وهو إنكار المنكر إذا كان يترتّب عليه ما هو أنكرُ منه، ومِن عدم الصبر على المنكَر،
فيُطلَب إزالتُه، فيتولّدُ منه ما هو أكبر منه
"Like revolting against kings and rulers, for this is the foundation of all evils and calamities. If one reflects over what happened to Islaam during minor and major crises one will realize that it caused by the negligence of this very principle."
‘Umar said,
إنا لا ننتصر على عدوّنا بعددٍ ولا عدة، وإنما ننتصر بطاعتنا لله ومعصيتهم له، فإن عصينا الله فقد استوينا وإياهم في
المعصية، وكان لهم الفضل علينا
“We do not defeat our enemy through our great numbers and or sophisticated ammunitions, we defeat them through our obedience to Allaah and our enemies’ disobedience to Him. But when we disobey Allaah, we become like them in sins and they will then defeat us.”
Replybrotherubaid
11-04-2010, 03:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
he doesn't pray nor fasts he corroborates with Israel to close borders to the Palestinians, he is banning niqabis, he throws Muslims in prisons by the bush loads.. I am not really sure what constitutes 'evidence' in your book?
I get it you don't like al'awlaki, it is your prerogative but why the monumental effort to 'get through to us people' you are an adult, you know right from wrong-- and please allow me to quote the noble Quran:
Surat Al-Mā'idah
5:105 to top in surah
Pickthal 5:105] O ye who believe! Ye have charge of your own souls. He who erreth cannot injure you if ye are rightly guided. Unto Allah ye will all return; and then He will inform you of what ye used to do.
admittedly though I am amused you'd call him 'worse than khwarij' yet so fervent against passing takfirs on those whose action is nothing but pure kufr.. know for a fact that the one thing that separates a Muslim from a kaffir is his/her salaat!
Baarak Allahu feeki ukhti iw as not taking his side in any way or praising him, i hate him for the sake of Allam, BUt i will never call him a kafir or make his blood permisible or call towards revolt against him.
The things u mentioned are great sins, and may Allah guide him , but as far as doing his takfeer then there has to be evidence coz this really is somthing big.
Also this discussion started when u said u did see the takfeer of some arab leaders and then u mentioned husni mubarak, yes he is the worst that there is but who else would u see as a kafir by the way and do takfeer of.
As far as i know, and this is from the foundations of our deen that we have to obey the ruler as long as he is establishing the salah amongst us, so we cannot do his takfeer untill he abandons n makes us bandin the salah, the masajid are closed or destroyed, and the friday sermon is stopped, everythig else is regared as major n huge sins, but we cannot do the takfeer of the ruler untill he falls into this, there are clare ahadith in bukhari and others that i can quote to u if u have never heared them or read them sister.
Salat is established in egypt and does he or does he not pray that can never be proved, even if it is proved , it does not enter in that hadeeth
Again i am not taking his side, wallahi i hate the guy , but look what the salaf said
The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said, "There are three things towards
which, the heart of a Muslim never shows hatred or rancour: Making one's deeds sincerely for Allaah; giving
obedience to the rulers (wulaatul-umoor); and sticking to the Jamaa'ah (united body). Saheeh: Related by
Ahmad (4/80), at-Tirmidhee (no. 2567) and al-Haythamee in Majma'uz-Zawaa'id (1/137). It was
authenticated by al-Albaanee in Silsilatus-Saheehah (no. 1123).
And al-Fudayl Ibn 'Iyaad (d.187H) - rahimahullaah - said, "If I had a supplication that would be answered, I would not make it, except for the ruler. Since, when the ruler becomes righteous, the cities and the servants become safe and secure." Refer to Hilyatul-Awliyaa' (8/91-92).
Imaam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (d.241H) said, "Indeed, I supplicate for the ruler, for his correctness, success and support - night and day - and I see this as
being obligatory upon me." Refer to as-Sunnah (no. 14) of Aboo Bakr al-Khallaal.
So we make dua for him and others and we canot do their takfeer yet, any muslim ruler is yet to abandion the salah in his country, the sins do not consitute kufr. and if u look at Islamic history u will see WORST RULERS THAN HUSNI MUBARAK, and u will also see how the great imams of sunnah who were much more knowledgable of the deen dealt with them, wallahi their lifes and their actions n stories are recorded in the books, so may be we should see just How BAD those rulers were and waht was their attitude towards them, no ruler of our time compares to some of those rulers of the past.
And well why point fingrers on husni for that matter, why not at the whole egyptian society and people? upon whom he has been made a leader
Please read this sister
Regarding the Origins and Nature of The Tyranny and Oppression of the Rulers u will find quotes from ibn al qayyim n many other great scholars of the past in this article
http://www.islamagainstextremism.com...the-rulers.cfm
Between Shaykul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah and Contemporary Takfiris On The Issue of Rebellion Against Tyranny and Injustice
http://www.islamagainstextremism.com...TOKEN=28721684
From The Devious and Insidious Methods Used by Takfiris to Entrap Muslim Youth
http://www.islamagainstextremism.com...-the-youth.cfm
Ways Used By The Extremist Khawarij To Incite The Muslim Youth - Shaikh Alee Naasir al-Faqeehee
http://www.islamagainstextremism.com...slim-youth.cfm
Bin Ladin Is A Calamity Upon the Muslim Nation and Praising Him Is A Deficiency In Understanding Islam
http://www.islamagainstextremism.com...ding-islam.cfm
I will leave u with this
Rebelling against the Unjust Ruler by Sheik Rabee
Q: What is your view on the one who says, “Verily the khawarij are only those who rebel against the “just ruler”, as for the one who rebels against the “unjust ruler” then they are not the khawarij?
A: Abdul Malik ibn Marwan was an oppressive ruler and he killed Abdullah ibn Az- Azubair and his commander destroyed the kaba; and Abdullah ibn Umar gave him the pledge of allegiance after all that. And the Sahaba (companions of the Prophet, peace and blessing are upon him) that were present gave him the pledge of allegiance. By ALLAH, he was oppressive may ALLAH have mercy upon him, he had some good with him and he had some merits and he conquered some lands for the Muslims and he had some jihad; but by ALLAH he was an oppressive tyrannical ruler. And the Messenger of ALLAH peace and blessings are upon him, taught, taught, taught; and the text can be found in
Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukari and other than that.
“Obey them as long as they establish the prayer amongst you. (Obey them) in that which you like and dislike. He (the Prophet peace and blessings are upon him) said, “Obey them as long as they establish the prayer amongst you”. They said, “Shall we not make war against them with our swords?” He (the Prophet, peace and blessings are upon him) said, “No, as long as they pray.”
Oppressive rulers, but despite this the Prophet, peace and blessings are upon him, ordered (the Muslims) to be patient with them and he did not allow rebelling against them. And the one that rebels against them (the rulers) has rebelled against the Muslims and the one that rebels should be killed even if he rebelled against an unjust ruler.
This is the understanding of the khawarij, they say: The person is not considered a khawarij unless he rebels against a just ruler. And they view that Ali, may ALLAH be pleased with him, was unjust. And they view Uthman, may ALLAH be pleased with him, as being unjust.
And those that endorse Sayd Qutb view Uthman as being unjust, even if they conceal it. And if this is not the case then why do they endorse Sayd Qutb the one who discredits the justice of Uthman? And he nullifies his (Uthman’s) leadership, and the leadership is not nullified except in the case of disbelief, because he (Sayd Qutb) is a takfeeri, the leader of the takfeeris! And he was not able to loudly proclaim his takfeer of Uthman. And he (Sayd Qutb) combined the concept of the khawarij and the raafidah, and he carried the banner of the khawarij and the banner of the raafidah and other banners also; he combined all these together and he deemed Uthman may ALLAH be pleased with him, unjust such that we can rebel against him, and (he deemed) Ali as unjust such that we could rebel against him, and like this. And Dhul Khuwaisira you saw how he discredited the justice of the Prophet, peace and blessing are upon him.
So the affairs becomes such that there is no criteria, the one who is just to you, is not just according to the one who rebels against him!
Therefore the solution is, as long as the ruler is in the circle of Islam, and the Prophet, peace and blessing are upon him, precisely defined it, even if this ruler is wicked and oppressive as long as he remains in the circle of Islam, as long as they establish the prayer it is not permissible to rebel against him; have you understood this? This is the ruling of ALLAH the ruling of the Prophet peace and blessing are upon him, not the ruling of the foolish.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
as far as the ayah u quoted sister, it cannot be used in the way u are using it
Coz if its used in that way we will have to stop enjoining the good and forbidding the evil
So is that ayah saying do not frbid the evil
what i am doing is trying to forbid the evil
Yes i can just leave it and care about my self , and worry about my own self, i would have done JUST that if the issue was minor , but when it comes to something as serious as killing civilians , muslims n non muslism n calling to fight the saudi ryal family its not something that we can sit quite about and say, La yadurukum mun dal itha htadyatum! Nope, its has great consequences, from blood shed to great fithnah and fassad, so may be we should look at the mistake, its consequenses and seriounsess n then decide if we should just let it slide or try to warn from it and save the masses.
Replybrotherubaid
11-04-2010, 08:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
Is this some sort of a joke? I make du3a that Allah swt rids of him and his ilk. There is no Muslim rule in Egypt, Egypt doesn't follow Islamic jurisprudence but a french constitution from the 18th c -- Muslims are put in prison and tortured and he who tortures a Muslim by whips and chains as is the case there has a grievous penalty insha'Allah of course I don't have the time to populate ahadith to prove what should be quite the common sense!
Niqabis are banned from universities and certain areas at to not frighten the tourists, and extreme injustice toward the average citizen and you are asking me to make du3a for him whilst professing your 'hatred' to al'awlaqi? ''i hate him for the sake of Allam'' whilst quoting me ''the heart of a Muslim never shows hatred or rancour'' sob7an Allah akhi why this overt hypocrisy? .. I think you should simply take your own advise and quit writing on this thread!
I am not sure what you are hoping for as far as I am concerned, to be quite frank you inhabit a country that spends millions on bull on common prostitutes like Mariah carey and the hilton girl whilst your neighbors are struggling at the border simply to survive to eat and not be refugees in their own country.. go praise your ruler and pray for him.. the rest of the Muslim world needs awakening however!
:w:
Sister your not getting the message , may be coz ims aying too much in one reply, I hate him more than you by the way.
ALL that u said in the above quoted reply, Has all of that and even worst than that not happened in our history? Has the Islamic history nt seen worst than husni mubarak, each and everypoint u made, didnt great scholars n imams get prisoned? didnt muslims get killed by muslim rulers? all that has happened before , in the best generations n with our salaf, why dont we see how they dealt with it. do u really think that they did not suffer as much as egyptians suffer right now? They suffered way more than what egyptians suffer on the hand of husni, but either way im not praising the guy he will be taken into account by Allah, All i was saying is that I do not do his takfeer, and my lasy message was not only about husni mubarak, i clearly asked u if there were anyother muslim leaders that u considered kafir, coz u said u do see takfeer of SOME arab leaders, Musni mubarak was one u mentioned, so my answer was in general, about all the muslim rulers in general and i prvided links and evidence for the stance towards the unjust and tyranny and how our salaf us salih dealt with such unjust or sinful rulers.
It was in no way meant to praise the guy husni , wallahi i will say it again i hate him for the sake of Allah, He has wronged a lot but to do his takfeer n revolt against him n all i just dont see all that, not with him or anyother muslim ruler.
Ssister lets leave it all, my words or thoughts or yours mean absolutely notthing
i will leave u with something from an imam of sunnah
Sheikh Ibn baaz rahimahullah
Does takfeer alone give a license to publically criticize or revolt against the Rulers?
http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmes...31&Topic=10961
Imam Ahmad a good example of implementing the Sunnah over desires
http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmes...m=8&Topic=9719
Imaam Ash-Shawkaanee said in his book Raf'-ul-Asaateen fee Hukm-il-Ittisaal bis-Salaateen (pg. 81-82):
It is well established in the Mighty Book (Qur`an) that we are commanded to obey the ruler. Allaah put obeying the rulers after obeying Him and obeying the Messenger (salallaahu 'alaihiwasallam). There are many ahaadeeth in the purified Sunnah, i.e. the main collections, and other books that state that it is obligatory to obey them [the rulers] and to be patient with their oppression. One of the ahaadeeth in which the Prophet (salallaahu 'alaihiwasallam) commanded us to obey them [the rulers] consists of the words: '...even if he beats your back and takes your money.' It is also authentically reported on him (salallaahu 'alaihiwasallam) that he said: 'Give them what they are entitled to (of rights), and ask Allaah for what you are entitled to (of rights).'
AND I AM NOT REFERING TO HUSNI, NOPE MUSLIMS RULERS IN GENERAL, WITH ALL THEIR SINS , N OPPRESSIONS WHAT SHOULD BE OUR STANCE TOWARDS THEM!!
THIS THREAD WAS ABOT AL AWLAKI AND HIS CALL TOWARDS JIHAD AND FIGHTING THE MUSLIM RULERS IN ARABIAN PENNINSULA, AND IN PARTICULAR THE SAUDI ARABIAN RULERS, AND ALL EVIDENCE I HAVE GIVEN IS TO PROVE THAT AWLAKI IS WRONG AND A FILTHY KHARIJ FOR HAVING THAT VIEW AND CALLING TOWARDS IT. ITS NOT ABOUT HUSNI MUBARAK. READ WHAT THE SCHOLARS HAVE SAID AND COMPARE IT WITH WHAT AWLAKI IS CLIAMING , AND SEE FOR YOURSELF WHAT IS THE CURRENT POSITION OF AWLAKI.
and you sister have a lot to say a bout a lot of countries including the one i am in
I suggest u get your knowledge about what shouldbe your stance and position towards these rulers and leaders before soeaking ill of them and making their takfeer , see the life sof our salafus saalih and comapre your self with those men of sunnah, those imams of sunnah n peple of sunnah and see how much you are on te sunnah in regards to this matter.
Stop talking about the rulers , its from the way of the innovators, it is proved from a lot of salaf that "If u see a person talking agsinst the ruler then know that he is a person of innovation and if u see a person making duaa for the ruler then know that he is a person fo the sunnah"
and the lifes of great imams of sunnah and tabieen and the best generations prove exactly how they dealt with Unjust and sinful and oppressing rulers.
And what was their stance and behavior towards them, if they made duaa for the rulers we would do teh same, coz some of our present rulers DO NOT COMPARE IN ANY WAY TO THE BRUTALITY OF THE RULERS OF THE PAST! and yet the people of sunnah acted the way they acted, your mad coz i said we make dua for the rulers, well guess what thats what the IMAMS of sunnah did when they themselfes were wronged and tortured, me n u are not even tortured or wronged, yes our muslim brothers n sisters do get wronged by some rulers, yes they are unjust and sinful, but all we can do is make dua for them, and no in no way am i approving the tyranny of the rulers, it is wrong and Allah will take them to account for it, But we s muslim have to know what is our stance and our position n behavior and what are our limits.
Allahul Mustaan
Assalam OA likum
Replybrotherubaid
11-04-2010, 08:28 PM
Regarding the Origins and Nature of The Tyranny and Oppression of the Rulers
We see these days, and for many long years, very emotive and powerful statements regarding the rulers coming from a people largely poisoned with the Leninist-Marxist poison of Sayyid Qutb. Pointing all their fingers in one direction and attributing every evil and calamity to just one category - which is that of the rulers - yet all but characterized by a collective ignorance of the basic and fundamental laws of Allaah operative in His creation, which is that the rulers are just a reflection of what is in the society itself. This is the end result of being led by pseudo-intellectual self-styled scholars who champion the Marxist-Leninist discourse brought by Sayyid Qutb, covered in an Islamic garb.
It is great news that droves and droves of misguided youth, in the Arab lands and elsewhere, are seeing through the corruption in the contemporary takfiri and jihadi school of thought which is based upon other than the methodologies of Islam, Sunnah and the way of the Salaf. This is being brought about by reformative and educational programs that allow these misguided people to resolve their doubts academically along with the proliferation and wider availability of quotations from notable Islamic scholars of all ages and times in contradiction to these deviant orientations.
In this article we present a number of monumental statements from true Islamic scholars which help to destroy and lay to utter ruins, the false Leninist Qutbist methodology of focusing methodologies of reform around the revolt against sinful, tyrannical rulers. These discourses are central to recruitment of unsuspecting Muslims into takfiri, jihadi and extremist circles and thus it is essential that they are countered with sound principles elucidated by the true orthodox and moderate scholars of Islam.
Ibn al-Qayyim, the great Muslim scholar, said in his book, Miftaah Daar is-Sa'aadah (Daar Ibn 'Affaan, 2/177):
And reflect in His, the Most High's wisdom in making the kings of the servants, their leaders and their rulers to be of the same type as their actions (i.e. the actions of the servant's). Rather, it is as if their actions (those of the servants) became manifest in the appearances of their rulers and kings. If they remain upright, then their kings will remain upright, and if they turn away (from uprightness), then they (the kings) too will turn away from uprightness. And if they (the servants) oppress [themselves and others], then their kings and rulers will oppress [them], and if their appears plotting and deception from them, their rulers will [be made to] behave likewise (towards their subjects), and if they (the servants) prevent the rights of Allaah due amongst themselves, and become stingy with respect to them (i.e. withhold the rights of each other), then their kings and their rulers will withhold the right that they (the servants) have over them, and will become stingy with respect to them. And if they (the servants) take from the one who is considered weak what they do not deserve to take from him in their dealings (i.e. misappropriate from him), then the kings will take from them (the servants) what they do not deserve to take (from them) and will inflict them with taxes and [other forms of] service. And everything that they (the servants) take away from the weak person, the kings will take away from them with power, force.
So their actions (those of the servants) become manifest in their actions (those of the kings and rulers). And it is not from the Divine wisdom that the evil-doers and the sinners are made to be ruled over [by anyone] except by one who is of their like.
And when the very first band (of Islaam) was the best of the generations, and the most pious of them, then their rulers were likewise. And when they became tarnished (i.e. corrupted), the rulers were made corrupted over them.
Thus, the wisdom of Allaah refuses that the likes of Mu'aawiyah, and 'Umar bin 'Abdil-'Azeez are put in authority over us in the likes of these times [the 8th Century Hijrah], let alone the likes of Abu Bakr and 'Umar.
Rather, our rulers are in accordance with our (nature) and the rulers of those before us were in accordance with their (nature). And both of the two matters necessitate wisdom and what it requires.
And the one who has deep rooted intelligence, when he moves his thought around in this subject will see the Divine wisdom that runs through al-Qadaa wal-Qadar (Ordainment and Pre-Decree), externally and internally, just as it runs through al-Khalq wal-Amr (the Creation and the Command). So beware from thinking with your corrupt thought that anything of His ordainments and decrees are devoid of the far-reaching wisdom. Rather, all of His, the Most High's ordainments and decrees take place from the most perfect angles of correctness and wisdom. However, the weak intellects are veiled, by way of their weakness, from perceiving these [aspects of wisdom], just like eyes suffering day-blindness are veiled, by way of their weakness from the light of the sun &"
Stated Ibn Abil-Izz al-Hanafi in his explanation of Aqeedat ut-Tahaawiyyah:
And as for adhereing to obedience to them (the Rulers), even if they commit oppression, then this is because the evils and harms that arise on account of rebelling against them, is numerous times more than that which occurs as a result of the oppression of the rulers themselves. Rather, in having patience over their oppression there is expiation of sins, and a multiplication of the reward. For Allaah did not empower them over us, except due to the corruption in our actions, and the recompense for an action is its like (al-jazaa'u min jins il-'amal).
Hence, it is upon us to strive (ijtihaad) in seeking forgiveness, making repentance and rectification of our actions. Allaah the Most High said, And whatever affliction befalls you, then it is from what your hands have earned, yet He pardons many and He the Most High said, ... And whatever evil befalls you, then it is from your own soul , and He the Most High said, And thus do we turn some of the oppressors against others on account of what they used to earn Hence, if the subjects (of a state) wish to save themselves from the oppression of the tyrannical ruler, then let them abandon oppression themselves.
Ibn Sa'd relates in his Tabaqaat al-Kubraa (7/163-165):
A group of Muslims came to al-Hasan al-Basree seeking a verdict to rebel against al-Hajjaaj [a tyrannical and despotic ruler]. So they said, "O Abu Sa'eed! What do you say about fighting this oppressor who has unlawfully spilt blood and unlawfully taken wealth and did this and that?" So al-Hasan said, "I hold that he should not be fought. If this is a punishment from Allaah, then you will not be able to remove it with your swords. If this is a trial from Allaah, then be patient until Allaah's judgement comes, and He is the best of judges." So they left al-Hasan, disagreed with him and rebelled against al-Hajjaaj - so al-Hajjaaj killed them all. Al-Hasan used to say, "If the people had patience when they are being tested by their unjust ruler, it will not be long before Allaah will give them a way out. However, they always rush for their swords, so they are left with their swords. By Allaah! Not even for a single day did they bring about any good.
Al-Hasan al-Basree (d.110) said as occurs in "Minhaj us-Sunnah" of Shaikh ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah(4/528):
Verily, al-Hajjaaj is the punishment of Allaah. So do not repel the punishment of Allaah with your own hands. But you must submit and show humility, for Allaah the Most High stated, And indeed We seized them with punishment, but they humbled not themselves to their Lord, nor did they invoke (Allâh) with submission to Him. (Al-Mu'minun 23:76).
And al-Hasan al-Basree also said, as occurs in "Adaab Hasan al-Basri" of Ibn al-Jawzee, pp.119-120:
Know - may Allaah pardon you - that the tyranny of the kings is a retribution (niqmah) from among the retributions of Allaah the Most High. And Allaah's retributions are not to be faced with the sword, but they are to be faced with taqwaa and are repelled with supplication and repentance, remorse (inaabah) and abstention from sins. Verily, when the punishments of Allaah are met with the sword, are more severe. And Maalik bin Deenaar narrated to me that al-Hajjaaj (Ibn Yoosuf) used to say, "Know that every time you commit a sin Allaah will bring about a punishment from the direction of your ruler (sultaan)". And I have I have also been told that a person said to al-Hajjaaj, "Do you do such and such with the Ummah of Muhammad (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam)?" So he replied, "For the reason that I am the punishment of Allaah upon the people of Iraaq, when they innovated into their religion whatever they innovated, and when they abandoned the commands of the their Prophet - alaihis salaam - whatever they abandoned".
Replybrotherubaid
11-04-2010, 08:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by
mad_scientist
the same fatalist madkhali propaganda. I really hate these salafitalk people ... for they have made a mockery out of Islam and spirituality. They continue to inhabit a kaafir country such as UK (ooh we were born here, its our country) yet pass ridiculous comments about others who decided to migrate out of your kaafir country.
I have never read soo many lies in one post before, may Allah forgive u and guide u.
lets count Fatalist , Wheer how?
Madhali = WHO? WHAT? there is no such thing as a madkhali or jaami, bring me one quote from one scholar clamiimgg there is a sect named madkhalis, rather, u should actualy read what EACH AND EVERY GREAT scholar has said about sheikh rabee, So to hate sheikh rabee bin hadi al madkhali is not justified in any way, nor can u hate those who claim to be with him, coz all the scholars have given praise for him, past and present and untill this day they do, this is not a cult or sect or anything at all, its pure way of salaf and salafi manhaj, If u want u can go back and see the pic i posted and see why the hate for sheikh rabee, if u have a heart in ur chect u will realise why is he hated and what is his crime.
U hate salafitalk people = well define salafi talk people? and let me know what is your probelm with them , there is gotta be something right? u cant just hate someone for no reason. so do let me know what is it that has got u sooo mad at them.
Mockery put of islam and spirituality??= Again a great lie, May Allah guide u , please give examples of this Mockery of ISLAMM! astaghfirullah
Inhibiting a kafir country= Well so ur saying salafi talk and everyone on it is living in kafir countries and they consider it their country? Astaghfirullah what a great lie, I am on salafi talk and i was born n raised in dubai. If some members are indeed living in the kaafir lands, or if some of the adminstartors are living in the kafir lands, well can u show me a website or forum which does not have ANY MEMEBR or Moderator from a kafir land or living in a kafir land?
Hey what about this islamic board? how many members are from kafir land and how many mods u be the judge, so this is not a refutation and dont knwo what u really mean by bringing this point up.
Ohh we were born here this is our country= lol again a great lie and slander, dont u have any fear of Allah? who said that, when and who approves that, we dont.
Salafis try harder than anyone out there to move out o fthe kafir lands and move to the muslim lands and wen they get teh chance they take the first flight akhi. again dont even know what ur point is here and how is this a refutation inany way.
We hate those who migrate? = A great number of members of salafi talk and salafis in the Uk have indeed migrated to saudi n other muslim countries, show me when and where have we REFUTED THEM and "passed ridiculous commenst" about the JUST FOR THE SAKE OF THEM MIGRATING TO A MUSLIM LAND, this can never be proved.
I will show u what u are trying to do , u did not read any thing that was posted here , nor did u read any of the links , u saw salafitalk and u jumped on the hate wagon, making ridicolus claims and made up great lies.
Lol do u think al awlaki was refuted coz he migrated? do u really think that? that would be a good way to make your self sleep at night if u are an awlaki fanatic, but if u want teh truth , His way and ideology has come out clearly and the scholars have spoken on the issue and its not hard to see just how misguided and deviatd awlaki is, its clear to any person of sunnah,
If u were truthful , u would have read the refutations and wrote a knowledge based reply, if u found any false claims in these refutations u would have countered them and refuted them with knwoledge and clarity, but lol u came here and made up a great lie that well.... when people migrate to muslim lands the salafi talk people n madkhalis refute them , lol go to sheikh rabee bin hadi al madkhalis house in makkah and see how many westerners are there to study, u lier!
so doe sheikh rabee n madkhalis make ridicolus comments about the students that are in saudia and why they moved there and left the kaffir country?
Lets get This straight and please DO answer this
You said that " They continue to inhabit a kaafir country such as UK (ooh we were born here, its our country) yet pass ridiculous comments about others who decided to migrate out of your kaafir country"
Now with all honesty please answer me this, Who are great in number in UK or in the west? "the so called madkhalis" or the "others"? How any masajid that are considered madkhali and how many are non-madkhali? which are more in number? and if u count individuals , would madkhalis in UK be more or Other than madkhalis? lol so u have actualy refuted your own self here, coz for every "madkhali" in UK THERE are about 1000 non-mdkhalis. Well why aint u mad at them then? why arent u opeining your moth about them and slandering them and refuting them, they are obviously more , which also proves that madkhalis migrate and the ones that actually dint migrate n sit there in a kafir country are actually the ones u support, lol this is actually funny may Allah guide u. why dont u have probelms with non-madkhalis in moving out of UK? they are proabably millions compared to a few hundred or thousand so called "madkhalis" .
U have no evidence or knowledge or intellect, u just came here and spoke your desires and may Allah guide u
Some horrendous lies and claims u have mae my friend , may Allah guide u.
And lets take this to PMs, i dont want to open up yet another topic in this thread after the whole husni mubarak fiasco.
As a brother i suggest u stop listening to those who have made up lies and great slanders of salafi publications n salafitalk n "madkhalis" and get ur facts, coz u will be taken to account for all the hate and slanders u are spreading.
Well let me give it to u in words of two great scholars
Sheikh Saalih al luhaidan was asked about people like u and he said" Its as if Allah wanted to raise the ranks of sheikh rabee, so he got people like them to speak ill of him and slander and curse him, so Allah can raise his ranks due to them, and they do not hurt or harm sheikh rabee in any way , rather they only raise his ranks with Allah"
And al Albani was asked about people like u and those whom u are listening to
"He said " Such peope are of two types"
Ignorant and followers of desires
as for ignorants than they are taught, and we ask Allah ti guide them
as for the ones that follwo their desires "WE ASK ALLAH TO BREAK THEIR BACKS"
so u choose which one are u , if ur just ignorant or lets say uninformed/misinformed , then go get ur facts
if ur following ur desires that the dua of al albani stands against u
salam
Every single one of you who came to this therad and used the word Madkhali , or madkhalist should know that they are the ones with propogands , coz forst of all none of the scholars acknowledge such a sect being present, second it is Exactly the same situation as with the sufis that fall in shirk, and how they cal the people of sunnah wahabi , This is exactly teh same situation, Just like they drive people away from people of sunnah and spread lies against them and have only one slogan to shout "wahabi, wahabi!" u do the same thing and claim "Madkhali , madkhali! While the right thing for Muslim be to actually read, teh sufis should read what the "wahabis" have to say and repernt from the shirk that they fall into and the Takfeeris and hizbis should read what the "madkhalis" have to say and see if its based on knowledge or evidence and if its right follow it and repent from your mistakes. We see the same old tactics of sufis, Just how they drive people away from the haqq, from teh scholars of sunnah , from the famous books that refute them and expose their aqeedah or calls them towards tawheed and towards correction, they just have one thing to ay , ohh this is wahabi propoganda! dont listen or read it , its all wahabi literature. Exactly in the same way the takfeeris n hizbis drive people away from the sunnah by claiming "madkhal websites , madkhali scholars, madhali cult etc etc.
Replybrotherubaid
11-05-2010, 07:32 AM
Akhi all the people u mentioned and the attacks on those people, Just tell me one thing , were they just attacks or were tey based on knoweldge n proofs and on truth or were they lies? was there a reason to "attack" them , did they give reason ? now were those reasons not enough for you? arent these people related to ou deen? arent we supposed to protect our deen from those who make mistaes?
As far as bilal philiphs, there are many things abouut him , and u mentioned tawheed al hakimiyyyah, well for the sake of Allah i ask u akhi, would u cosider sheikh salih al fawzaan and ibn baaz n ibn uthaimeen n al albani to be salafi scholars or are they also "Madkhali" scholars to you?
If they are salafi scholars in your book then go and read what they ALL have said about tawheed ul haakimiyah and see where bilal philiphs stands from them, if bilal philips is going aginst fawzan n bin baaz n all the great scholars what would your stance be? would u take the scholars or bilal philips?
Any way akhi as far as what your sister said, i suggest u go and get the facts coz these are matters related to our deen, and that was a great lie that "madkhalis" have close ties with rulers, this walahi is a great lie to keep people away from certain scholars, u know why they do that and make up such lies, coz "madkhalis" exposed some of their errors and instead of correcting themselfes and repenting they chose to retaliate, If u want everything to make sense n click in place may be u should read first and do a little bit of research and see what everypne actually has agaisnt sheikh rabee bin hadi al madhali and some of his students, even though i persoannly see some great harshness and mistakes from some f his students and those who claim to be with him , but in general to spread such lies like te ones your sister told u its not right ahki.
Its not about the rulers , and even if i is about the rulers , the "madkhalis" are upon the sunnah in that regard, if u dont wanna follow the sunnah in regards to the rulers than may Allah help you, our deen is complete and we know exactly HOW to deal with teh rulers and what our stance should be towards the leaders, Just coz we dont speak against the rulers and curse them and call them bad things people are quick to say ohhhh they are paid by the government and they are with the rulers but People dont know that speaking il of the rulers and cursing them and inciting hate agianst them is not from teh sunnah and is prohobited and tis is not what our salaf did with rulers worst than what we have now.
Now a days we have a strange phenomenon , Every one who does not speak against the ruler is Wrong , scared , Paid , Madkhlai , Agent , puppet , and every one who speaks against the rulers and in doing so goes against the sunnah , then he is all of a sudden a hero, brave , right , on haqq and is followed , So now the Standard between Haqq and batil right and wrong , sunnah and bidah is " Talkin about the rulers and critisizing them"?!
Is this the standard and criterion now ?
and when u will read teh sunnah and the way of the prophet and salaf us saalih m, the best generations u will find that lol actually it was not even alowed to speak agsint the ruler or to critisize him in pblic and speak ill of him coz its first of all not allowed in our deen and second it brings about much fithnah and destrutcion and bloodshed to the land.
so who was right and who was wrong? you were wrong all along while u thought u were upon the haqq, the reason lack of knowledge of the deen and the sunnah and the affairs of the rulers
any way
Oh Allah bear witness that I had provided in this thread enough links and materials and websites for anyone to check and know the truth , the Rest is in your Hands Lord, you guide whom U will , and i seek your forgiveness indeed u are the most forgiving.
http://www.themadkhalis.com/md/artic...revolution.cfmbrotherubaid
11-06-2010, 08:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
folks who talk about uniting the Muslim
-----------------------------------------------
and how admirable those Muslims who love the rule by their despot kings and even offer them prayers!
I have stopped reading after a while.. all the crap can really get to you if you don't isolate yourself from it!
:w:
U are completely Ignorant of the sunnah and the more u post the more u prove it
Dont u know what is the stance of our deen and shareeah towards the rulers, The unjust, the sinful and corrupt ones?
Have there not been WORST rulers than we have now and have not our salaf shown us how to deal with them?
Peole like u are the ones dividing this ummah and bringing fithnah coz of ur ignorance of the basic fundamentals of the sunnah and our religion
and u go on talk about splitting the ummah!
What has awlaki done to bring the ummah together? lol is this a joke! How is raging war against saudi arabia and its rlers gonna bring the ummah together? how is critisizng the rulers and slandering them in public gonna bring the ummah together?
Its is against the sunnah and our deen to critisize the rulers , Ourdeen is complete and all the success lies in flowing it and Following the sunnah
فَلْيَحْذَرِ الَّذِينَ يُخَالِفُونَ عَنْ أَمْرِهِ أَن تُصِيبَهُمْ فِتْنَةٌ أَوْ يُصِيبَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ﴿٦٣﴾
And let those who oppose the Messenger's (Muhammad SAW) commandment (i.e. his Sunnah legal ways, orders, acts of worship, statements, etc.) (among the sects) beware, lest some Fitnah (disbelief, trials, afflictions, earthquakes, killing, overpowered by a tyrant, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them
Dont u know what is the sunnah in regards to the rulers? dont u know how much fithnah and blood shed and destruction can come about because of crtisizing the ruler and MORE than that if some one clearly not powerful enough or ready enough to rage war against the rulers??
U know what is the out come? destrutcion , killing of mulsims , blood shed , U knwo what happens when they cant really fight the rulers, Yes They go n bomb mosques , they go and bomb policestations, they go and bomb army checkposts Killing Thousands of muslims just to put pressure on government coz they cant fight man to man with the governmet and u Call that ISLAM !! astagfirullah
Go read the lifes of our pious salaf, the 4 imams , ibn taymiyah and all the great scholars and then look at yourself! Look at your claims and your open sttacks on the rulers and Look at the HARAM claims and devilish claims of awlaki aout raging war ins audi arabia and how the kings and ruling family are hyprocrites! Wjat good is that gonna bring? and OHH it also shows how igorant o fthe sunnah al awlaki is, but tell me wouldnt he be cosidered a kharij for his claims of fighting the saudi rulers and JIHAAD in the arabian penninsula?? If that is not khurroj then there is no khurooj , if that is not call for murder or innocent people and law enforcment agencies of muslim countries and rulers than there is no khorooouj.
Yes it hurts every muslim to see the stae of the Ummah, to see palestine, to see iraq , to se afghan , but its impatient emptional and ignorant people like awlaki and yourself that cant take it and end up doing much harm than good, end up doing that which is forbidden and hated by Allah, That which is prohibited.
Go get some nowledge of the deen and the sunnah in regards to rulers , in regards to jihaad,
And as for your attack about me praying for the leaders , Huh! that is the sunnah , so u can hate me as much as u want for adhereing to the sunnah and it does not hurt me , I proved to you that with unjust and sinful rulers our sharreah orders us to make dua for them, and it prohibits us from speaking agisnt them and fighting them , and u took the opportunity to make fun of that and make fun of my claim? than know that making fun of sunnah IS KUFR! and may Allah save u.
Making dua for the kings n unjust rulers has been the way of people of sunnah of our salaf,
And lol , u took a dig at my rulers of UAE, yes usee the billions they spend on sinful things, BUt U DONT SEE THE BILLIONS THEY SPEND IN good, The sins are not kufr, yes Allah can take them to account , but u were ignorant of the fact that we as muslims are NOT ALLOWED to critisize them in public.
Let me tell u the good that is with our leaders, Only if u could see the services and houses and support Sheikh muhamad bin rashid al maktoum gives to widows and orphans and divorced women n if u can see the CITIES that he has built for them u would be ashamed! only if u could see the thousands of Quran MEMORISING centers thorugh out dubai in every mosque, where chldren of all ages n nationalites are urged tomemorise the quran and even Rewarded generously U would be ashamed! Only if u could see their Financial suport to Muslim thorough out the world , in disacters n in problems u would be ashmed, Yes the yhave sins, Bu they have good too, yes me n yo have sins and good too, But know
إِنَّ الْحَسَنَاتِ يُذْهِبْنَ السَّـيِّئَاتِ
Verily, the good deeds remove the evil deeds (i.e. small sins)
I can count the mistakes n sins of my rulers BUT I CAN NEVER COUNT THEIR GOOD! U sister can live a million years and u will still NOT COME CLOSE TO THE GOOD DEEDS OF our rulers or the saudi royal family , WHY dont u count their good deeds , sins are sins they are not kufr! sins are removed by the good that they have , BUt lol people like u fall short in the rights of the rulers and u think ur doing sometng GREAT!
Tel me just one thing , very simple actually? Dou think u will ever spend a millon in the way of Allah in your life? do u ? well the rulers of uae spend Multi millions just in ramadan! How will u ever come close to their good deeds.
The good they do is on a big scale, and their reward is with ALLAH, and hey! on top of all that They will be rewarded for your attacks on them and Allah will raise their ranks by it so THANK U!
Now one more simple thing for u to understand , that in our deen and following the sunnah there are soo many benefits, and when the sunnah forbids us of something there are Many enefits and wisdoms behind it, so is the case with obeying the rulers and giving them their rights, a quick example
The recent floods in paksiatn , some on the areas where taliban are very active, they have the love, sympathy and support of the people , well when the floods hit, WHO RESCUED THEM? these were the same people fighting the government even days before the flods but when the floods hit they had no one to help them but THE SAME ARAMY THAT THEY WERE KILLING! so isnt the sulttan , and the one with authroty and the ruler appointd for the greater benefit and for great hukmah from Allah! If he is sinful and unjust u should read what i posted from the scholars like ibn al qayyim, ts only coz of the condition of the popel of that land and their own sins.
Now one last thing, Dont we have examples in the life of the Prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam and his companions and tabieen n the bes t three generations and the salafus saalih? every body is talking about jihaad and fighting and all, well dont u have examples in their lifes related to jihaad, Did they always fight? under all circumstances, or did they have patience in some , sulh and truce in some ?? Its not always time to fight, specillay when ur not in authority like awlaki and when ur weak and u wil only bring about fithnah and blood shed and get muslims killed!
format_quote Originally Posted by
Ahm@d
Im not going to read that, but would like u to answer me clearly on these simple questions
1- Is jihaad and calling towards jihaad in the arabian pennisula something that is allowed in our shareeah or can it bring about any good ? First of all its haram, and those who fight the rulers EVEN THE UNJUST ones are khawarij and the Prophet sala lahu alihi wa allam called them DOGS OF HELFIRE
They will only bring about blood shed, destructions and murder and much fithnah and fassad! So can we add that to his achievemnets , calling towards COLD MURDER!
2- How can killing any ciilian, american or any westener or kafir be justified in our beautiful religion and sharreah! now what would u say to some one who calls towards it and hails it and incites it? so can we add that to his achevemnets too?
3- Critisizing and speaking ill of the rulers and inciting public to fight them , HOw is that from our deen? dont we have Quran n sunnah and lifes of the pious preceedors? do we see it with them , dont we have examples , now what would u call some one who falls in such hedious crimes? can we add this to his list of achievements?
PEOPLE CHANGE , YES HE HAS SOME GOOD LECTURES , BUT HE CHANGED TO THE WORST AND MAY ALLAH SAVE US FROM HIM , MAY ALLAH GUIDE HIM TO THE SUNNAH AND SAVE EVERYONE FROM HIS EVIL.
PEOPLE CHANGE
THOSE WHO KILLED ALI AND UTHMMAN RADI ALAHU ANHUM WERE NOT BORN KHAWARIJ!! SHOULD SOME OF THEM HAD NOT BEEN MISGUIDED AND CHANGED THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN GREAT IMAMS FROM THE TABIEEN AND WE WOULD BE QUOTING THEM AS GREAT IMAMS OF SUNNAH AND HADEETH AND OUR DEEN IN GENERAL, BUT THEY CHANGED AND DEVIATED! SO NOW WE HATE THEM AND CALL THEM DOGS OF HELL FIRE!
GET UR KNOWLEDGE AND GET YOUR FACTS.
Here are some of his achievemenets
http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmes...=9&Topic=10039
a man is judged on his most recent condition and state!
and that link is actually old , he has since went on to record more deviations and misuidance and dallalaat in his resume like his recent videos where he said it is permissible to make planes targets like the underware bomber. He is clearly inciting MURDER which is prohibited in islam to the youth who are his fanatics like many on this forum and youtube,
Its important and its the best form of jihhad to warnagainst him , to save the youth from his misguidance and talbees , from his devilish ideology and his filth!
American-Yemeni cleric advocates killing of US civilians
http://gulfnews.com/news/world/usa/a...lians-1.630909
Al Qaida in Yemen publishes shocking magazine article
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/yemen/...ticle-1.695352
Al Qaida launches English language propaganda magazine
http://gulfnews.com/news/world/usa/a...azine-1.648776
Awlaki, al qaida and their likes are OUT TO KILL, no Muslim approves it no matter how they justify it
read for youself , these devils will bring much harm ti islam and muslims and to their selfes first of all, they are not fighting in the way of Allah rather in the way of shytaan, this is not the jihaad of islam, they claim it but its a mere claim and its far fromw hat they claim , its murder and crime in every way and in our shareeah!
ReplyPowered by vBulletin® Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.