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Grace Seeker
11-24-2010, 05:07 PM
I'm curious as to whether American Muslims celebrate things like Thanksgiving, Memorial Day, the 4th of July?

I know that Islam teaches against innovations, and that there are only two Islamic holidays. But I also know that Muslim regularly celebrate national holidays in countries such as Turkey. So, is there any sense among Muslims in the USA, especially among American born Muslims, not immigrants, as to the appropriateness of celebrating non-religious, national holidays?
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'Abd Al-Maajid
11-24-2010, 05:15 PM
I dont know about Islamic holidays in The US

format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
I know that Islam teaches against innovations, and that there are only two Islamic holidays.
And you know the most important thing in Islam, regarding innovation. :)
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Muslim Woman
11-24-2010, 05:36 PM
Salaam/ Peace

format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
there are only two Islamic holidays.

We have 2 Eid festivals . Don't know if it means we can't celebrate any non-religious hoilday. In my country , we have holidays on National Victory Day , Independent day etc.

btw don't have much idea about how people celebrate Thanksgiving, Memorial Day, the 4th of July . If they drink alcohol and give thanks to Jesus pbuh , then a muslim can't take part in that .
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Grace Seeker
11-24-2010, 07:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
btw don't have much idea about how people celebrate Thanksgiving, Memorial Day, the 4th of July . If they drink alcohol and give thanks to Jesus pbuh , then a muslim can't take part in that .
I suppose some people do. Some people celebrate Mother's Day that way. But that is not what the days are themselves about. These are not Christian holy days; they are national holidays. Any decision to drink alcohol or to give thanks to Jesus are purely personal choices.

The most religious in character would be Thanksgiving, and the specifics of it are laid out in the proclamation by Abraham Lincoln which set it:

By the President of the United States of America.

A Proclamation.

The year that is drawing towards its close, has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies. To these bounties, which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added, which are of so extraordinary a nature, that they cannot fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God. In the midst of a civil war of unequaled magnitude and severity, which has sometimes seemed to foreign States to invite and to provoke their aggression, peace has been preserved with all nations, order has been maintained, the laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed everywhere except in the theatre of military conflict; while that theatre has been greatly contracted by the advancing armies and navies of the Union. Needful diversions of wealth and of strength from the fields of peaceful industry to the national defence, have not arrested the plough, the shuttle or the ship; the axe has enlarged the borders of our settlements, and the mines, as well of iron and coal as of the precious metals, have yielded even more abundantly than heretofore. Population has steadily increased, notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp, the siege and the battle-field; and the country, rejoicing in the consiousness of augmented strength and vigor, is permitted to expect continuance of years with large increase of freedom. No human counsel hath devised nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God, who, while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy. It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and one voice by the whole American People. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next, as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens. And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to Him for such singular deliverances and blessings, they do also, with humble penitence for our national perverseness and disobedience, commend to His tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged, and fervently implore the interposition of the Almighty Hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it as soon as may be consistent with the Divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquillity and Union.

In testimony whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the Seal of the United States to be affixed.

Done at the City of Washington, this Third day of October, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, and of the Independence of the Unites States the Eighty-eighth.
Abraham Lincoln


The 4th of July is our American Independence Day. A lot of alcohol is consumed that day, but drinking is not a prerequisite part of the celebration of the nation's independence.

Memorial Day officially commemorates U.S. soldiers who died while in the miliatry service. In practice it has become a time of remembering all who served in the nation's military and have since passed away. Many individuals also treat this as a sort of personal day of remembrance for any and all family members they have lost whether or not they ever served in the nation's military.
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Predator
11-24-2010, 07:11 PM
What is the logic of setting aside a day e.g. “Thanks giving day” for this?

Thanksgiving is 24/7 365 days to my creator.

‘Jesus is a prophet close to my heart. It does not mean I’ll be “celebrating” X-mas!

Likewise, it is laughable that a day in the year is allocated to “celeberate” Mothers Day.

Why not celebrate Haloween’s too because of our own belief in Jinns?

Such “celebration days” are random or paganistic allocations now used as money making schemes masked by noble cause excuses.

Our ‘Eid’s are but two.

Gratitude to Allah

and His creation, good behaviour towards mother, loving the wife…. and other such noble actions are FOR LIFE… not for a date that is commodified and commercialised to milk out cash from hapless zombies lost in WalMart world.


As Muslims when We should not be mindless zombies just celebrating things left and right because thats the garbage society and media feed us.

In modern times people are known to overeat to disgusting excess, especially so during Thanksgiving and this is totally contradictory to the sunnah. Who are we emulating when we indulge in such practices ?

There’s obviously nothing wrong with a family getting together because they have break, however getting together because its thanksgiving and having a turkey and everything is completely following the ways of the non-muslims, pure imitation. There’s a saying that state, “imitation is the sincerest form of flattery”, by imitating the non-muslims are we not saying that we have some type of love for their ways?

The Prophet Muhammad (saw) said, “Whoever resembles a people is one of them.” (Recorded by Abu Dawud).

Why would ANY Muslim want to take the risk of being like the non-muslims, when this act is so disgraceful in the eyes of the Allah.And what are we taking this risk for anyway, to eat some turkey?

If any Muslims have doubt on this issue then may I remind you of another hadith, “Leave that which makes you doubt for that which does not make you doubt.”

May Allah

swt guide the Muslims, may he protect us from following the wretched path of the disbelievers. Ameen.
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Grace Seeker
11-24-2010, 07:37 PM
Airforce, are you an American Muslim? I was specifically looking for the views of American-born Muslims.
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Yassouid
11-24-2010, 07:52 PM
Im an American Muslim and I've never celebrated any of these holidays; though i know some Muslims who do. Its hard to say whether they do or not because where do you make the distinction if they are celebrating the holiday or just coming together with family because school is out.

My parents would always tell me (and my siblings) that when Allah (saw) and the angels look down on earth and see some Americans drinking or partying (usually for new years) that we should do the complete opposite and pray or read Quran.

The same applies to birthdays, a lot of families have birthday parties even though i'm not sure its completely Islamic.

Lastly, you can have a lot of celebrations in your home other than the two Eids, but they should be based on merit such as graduating, good grades, and memorizing Quran. This is merely my opinion.
Allahu A'lam.
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جوري
11-24-2010, 08:04 PM
I am an American Muslims and NO I don't participate nor celebrate any national holiday or commercial one!

all the best
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Tyrion
11-24-2010, 08:06 PM
Yup, I celebrate things like Thanksgiving. :p
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Grace Seeker
11-24-2010, 09:24 PM
Thanks. It was just a curiousity, but these responses were helpful. I had wished a Muslim friend a Happy Thanksgiving, and later thought that maybe it would not be received in the way I had extended it.

If I read your replies properly, it seems that it is neither right nor wrong in and of itself to celebrate or not celebrate national holidays. But rather what you personally understand yourself as celebrating and the manner in which one actually engages in the celebration are the major issues.
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Maryan0
11-24-2010, 09:57 PM
Many holidays are celebrated all over the Muslim world besides the 2 Eids and I dont know if you can refer to them as bidah because in that case most things cultural would fall under that and we are allowed to have a culture. Very confusing? I wonder what the Islamic stance is on celebrating holidays specific to whatever countries.
I'm not from the USA but I am from n. America and as a kid we set off crackers on Canada day but we weren't exactly celebrating it was just an excuse.
Salam
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جوري
11-24-2010, 10:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Thanks. It was just a curiousity, but these responses were helpful. I had wished a Muslim friend a Happy Thanksgiving, and later thought that maybe it would not be received in the way I had extended it.
I have no feelings one way or the other toward national holidays and it doesn't give me the day off from work either, ironically so-- since the preference is to make Muslims in general grab the shifts those days to let others celebrate . strangely enough also on the nights when there is daylights savings time almost always end up on night-float so as to suffer an extra hour which doesn't count as over time.
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Perseveranze
11-24-2010, 11:05 PM
I have to admit something, even the non-religious people seem to celebrate Christmas, without even knowing any background or history of it. It's almost like Halloween, like a traditional celebration rather than a religious one.
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Yassouid
11-24-2010, 11:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
I have no feelings one way or the other toward national holidays and it doesn't give me the day off from work either, ironically so-- since the preference is to make Muslims in general grab the shifts those days to let others celebrate . strangely enough also on the nights when there is daylights savings time almost always end up on night-float so as to suffer an extra hour which doesn't count as over time.
Yeah i remember my dad used to always be on call for the week before and after Christmas. It was upsetting as kids as we had off school and barely got to see him.

The day of day light savings has always confused me, its the only day you can start something at 1:30am and finish it by the same day at 1am.
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Ramadhan
11-24-2010, 11:57 PM
When the christian holidays (easter, christmas) are given official national holiday status, I wonder why Muslim not given theirs.
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جوري
11-25-2010, 12:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
When the christian holidays (easter, christmas) are given official national holiday status, I wonder why Muslim not given theirs.

Have you seen Muslims painted in any positive light, even bidding on federal auctions yesterday by an Islamic center was met with the usual rabid gore like reaction.. these gits have a long way to go before we can even expect a day off. At my sister's hospital one Muslim girl asked for Eid off and the guy who shares her shift was so pissed off, he actually said along with an onslaught of foul tirade that Islam is a cult. I hope he got disciplinary action for it considering the director is Muslim, but I highly doubt it. Muslims who hold high positions here tend to cower from their true responsibilities. I had to write an email to get Eid off and everyone was looking at me funny the next day, like they'd never heard of such a holiday.. I am actually glad I explained what the holiday is and means to Muslims in my email..

:w:
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YusufNoor
11-25-2010, 12:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Airforce, are you an American Muslim? I was specifically looking for the views of American-born Muslims.
there is no need for these holidays, but you mentioned:

Thanksgiving - Alhumdulillah is better than any turkey day for it contains within in it, La Ilaha Illallah!

Memorial Day - people die so corporations and bankers can make billions, what's to celebrate?

the 4th of July - ah yes, the people of the colonies took their independence from the Bank of England and later gave it up for the Federal Reserve! brilliant! and their dignity? gone to the TSA!

But I also know that Muslim regularly celebrate national holidays in countries such as Turkey
uh huh, Turkey? there's a bastion of Islam, eh? :hmm:
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Woodrow
11-25-2010, 01:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
When the christian holidays (easter, christmas) are given official national holiday status, I wonder why Muslim not given theirs.
Here in the USA the 10 National Holidays are:

United States Legal Federal Holidays 2011
• January 1, 2011 (saturday): New Year's Day [Jan. 1 every year]
• January 17, 2011 (monday): Martin Luther King Day [3rd monday in Jan]
• February 21, 2011 (monday): Presidents Day (observed) [3rd monday in Feb]
note: Presidents Day is also Washington's Birthday (observed)
• May 30, 2011 (monday): Memorial Day (observed) [last monday in May]
• July 4, 2011 (monday): Independence Day [July 4th every year]
• September 5, 2011 (monday): Labor Day [1st monday in Sept]
• October 10, 2011 (monday): Columbus Day (observed) [2nd monday in Oct]
• November 11, 2011 (friday): Veterans' Day [Nov. 11 every year]
• November 24, 2011 (thursday): Thanksgiving Day [4th thursday in Nov]
• December 25, 2011 (sunday): Christmas Day [Dec. 25 every year]
December 26, 2011 (monday): federal employees extra day off for Christmas

Extra Federal Holiday every 4th year: Inauguration Day - next on January 21, 2013. It happens on Jan 20th after the U.S. Presedential Election, held every 4 years. Since January 20th in 2013 is on a sunday, observance is on monday, Jan 21st.

Be Aware if a federal public holiday falls on a Saturday or Sunday.
Sometimes ... many Federal, State, City, Postal, Bank employees, other workers take an extra day off work. When a holiday falls on saturday, they might not work on the preceding friday. When a holiday falls on sunday, they might not work on the following Monday. See July 4th and Christmas in 2010 above.
SOURCE

Although many Americans consider Christmas as being a religious holiday the Federal Government doesn't. Most employers now allow workers to take off 1 or 2 religious holidays of the workers choice each year. In Austin TX Muslim School children are permitted to take off the 2 Eids as Religious Holidays. I do not know if any other school districts do the same.
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Predator
11-25-2010, 07:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by YusufNoor
there is no need for these holidays, but you mentioned:

Thanksgiving - Alhumdulillah is better than any turkey day for it contains within in it, La Ilaha Illallah!

Memorial Day - people die so corporations and bankers can make billions, what's to celebrate?

the 4th of July - ah yes, the people of the colonies took their independence from the Bank of England and later gave it up for the Federal Reserve! brilliant! and their dignity? gone to the TSA!

uh huh, Turkey? there's a bastion of Islam, eh? :hmm:
Yeah its evident he is looking for the opinions of deviant sects for his own personal satisfaction.

(Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 69
From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. "

What else can one expect from someone who follows his own desires and abrogate his Lord's commandments
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glo
11-25-2010, 07:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
In Austin TX Muslim School children are permitted to take off the 2 Eids as Religious Holidays. I do not know if any other school districts do the same.
The same happens in our local schools.

One of my social work colleagues is a Muslim, and she has never had any problems taking time off for Eid. Last year during Ramadan she worked shorter days so she could go home and prepare the Iftar meals; this year she took the entire month of Ramadan off, without any problems.
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Grace Seeker
11-28-2010, 03:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce
Yeah its evident he is looking for the opinions of deviant sects for his own personal satisfaction.
I don't know who you are talking about, but since I started the thread, and used the illustration of national holidays being celebrated in Turkey, I assume you are referencing me.

Well, I can assure you, that you are waaaay off base. I said in the thread why I had asked the question, if you had read it for more than just making rude comments you would realize that what you've actually done is call one of your brothers in Islam a member of a deviant sect. The friend I expressed "Happy Thanksgiving" to happens to be an American-born Sunni Muslim.


From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. "
Since this was given to Muhammad, the followers would be followers of Islam. So you are admitting that there are deviant Muslims. Fine. I won't argue with you. Now, if you want to cast my question in terms of deviance, again even a casaul reading would have made it clear that I wasn't looking for anything to satisfy me personally -- I'm quite happy celebrating Thanskgiving, and a whole host of other holidays, without any regard to how Muslims view them one way or the other. Rather, I was seeking to learn whether the acknowledgement and/or celebration was considered acceptable or a deviation by American Muslims.


What else can one expect from someone who follows his own desires and abrogate his Lord's commandments
Off topic to the thread and just an example of rudeness on your part -- i.e. deviant and unIslamic behavior, since that seems to be your interest.
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Grace Seeker
11-28-2010, 04:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Here in the USA the 10 National Holidays are:

SOURCE

Although many Americans consider Christmas as being a religious holiday the Federal Government doesn't. Most employers now allow workers to take off 1 or 2 religious holidays of the workers choice each year. In Austin TX Muslim School children are permitted to take off the 2 Eids as Religious Holidays. I do not know if any other school districts do the same.

Thanks for the list Woodrow. Since most people do get Christmas off, I can see why some people think that we celebrate religious holidays in the USA. But Christmas is the only one that could be tied to Christianity and, as others have stated, for most people it is more of a cultural phenomena than a religious observance any more. As a matter of fact, as a pastor, I don't get it off specifically because we do seek to remind peopl to keep it as a religious observance and typically have services.

As for those who suggest that people celebrate Easter as a national holiday in this country, don't have a clue where they got that idea. But, they don't have their facts straight. Maybe they do in other countries, but certainly not in the USA.

Anyway, based on the answers I see in this thread. It seems like everyone is glad to have a day off of work, but not reality is that not everyone gets it. My niece had to work the weekend, because she is a nurse in a hospital, and that's just what nurses do. Being a holiday doesn't change things. Others may not be excited about the "reason" for the holiday, but will take advantage of the opportunity to get together with family and friends or do some other activitiy. And they are grateful for that even if they aren't celebrating "Thanksgiving" per se. So, unless I actually hear some objection, I'm going to continue to wish people (non-Muslim or Muslim) a "Happy Thanksgiving" and pray that they indeed have a happy day the fourth Thusday of November whether they spend it with or without a turkey.


But, just for Airforce, "Happy 329th day of the year."

format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce
What is the logic of setting aside a day e.g. “Thanks giving day” for this?

Thanksgiving is 24/7 365 days to my creator.
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جوري
11-28-2010, 04:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
a "Happy Thanksgiving" and pray that they indeed have a happy day the fourth Thusday of November whether they spend it with or without a turkey

Isn't it funny that you celebrate and give thanks for eradicating or very nearly so a population of aborigines who offered you food in show of good will? -- Now that they're gone you do you even have a moment of remembrance for wiping them, and sending the rest into the path of casinos and reservations while you pig out literally on glazed ham?!
I think it is macabre really and unusual to commemorate a day of beneficence no thanks to your forefathers by eating instead of reflecting on those lives wiped out in the name of your superiority and your pagan gods--I mean even if people flatter you by returning the sentiment on the inside they're thinking ugh!
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titus
11-28-2010, 02:44 PM
Isn't it funny that you celebrate and give thanks for eradicating or very nearly so a population of aborigines who offered you food in show of good will?
I know you aren't that ignorant. Just trying to get a rise again, eh?

It is about as accurate as saying that Eid al-Adha is all about celebrating Muslims murdering their sons.

Regardless of its origins (which are not just from the Pilgrims) Thanksgiving is a day set aside to spend with family and give thanks for all the good things in your life. If you look upon that as a bad thing then I think that is more a reflection of your own character than mine or any other American that celebrates it.

When the christian holidays (easter, christmas) are given official national holiday status, I wonder why Muslim not given theirs.
As said before Christmas is the only holiday that may be considered religious in origin, and today it not celebrated mainly as a religious holiday, but more of a cultural one. I am not a Christian yet I celebrate and look forward to Christmas every year.

The obvious answer to your question, though, is that it is based on population. Christians have always made up, by far, the largest religious group in the US and therefore they had more influence on the making of a national holiday. That is also why you see no Jewish, Hindu or Shinto national holidays in the US.
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titus
11-28-2010, 02:50 PM
Thanksgiving is 24/7 365 days to my creator.
I have heard that one before also.

Yet you and other Muslims take part in Ramadan where you act just a little bit different than the rest of the year. Why is that? Because sometimes it is a good thing to set aside some time to concentrate on certain aspects of our lives.

So maybe you are thankful 24/7/365 (I highly doubt it though). It still doesn't hurt to set aside one day a year to revel in that thankfulness with your family.
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جوري
11-28-2010, 04:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
I know you aren't that ignorant. Just trying to get a rise again, eh?

It is about as accurate as saying that Eid al-Adha is all about celebrating Muslims murdering their sons.

Regardless of its origins (which are not just from the Pilgrims) Thanksgiving is a day set aside to spend with family and give thanks for all the good things in your life. If you look upon that as a bad thing then I think that is more a reflection of your own character than mine or any other American that celebrates it.
I don't see any semblance or similitude nor truths in your analogy -- how you view the day or celebrate is utterly inconsequential to the facts of the matter.. those who offered you food in good will have been eradicated and you see fit to celebrate the day and ignore the deed!
There was no murder of sons on Eid, there was however murder of an entire population that took you in, in good will and fed you!
As said before Christmas is the only holiday that may be considered religious in origin, and today it not celebrated mainly as a religious holiday, but more of a cultural one. I am not a Christian yet I celebrate and look forward to Christmas every year.
Again what you do is utterly inconsequential. The fact of the matter is what the holiday represents the birth of God and funny enough coincides the pagan winter solstice and the pagan 'sun' god.. your celebration is nothing short of hypocrisy and giving into commercialism, let alone being at odds with your own professed beliefs or lack thereof!
The obvious answer to your question, though, is that it is based on population. Christians have always made up, by far, the largest religious group in the US and therefore they had more influence on the making of a national holiday. That is also why you see no Jewish, Hindu or Shinto national holidays in the US.
That is irrelevant!

sometimes it is better that you take a back seat than babble utter nonsense!

all the best
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B_M
11-28-2010, 06:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
Regardless of its origins (which are not just from the Pilgrims) Thanksgiving is a day set aside to spend with family and give thanks for all the good things in your life. If you look upon that as a bad thing then I think that is more a reflection of your own character than mine or any other American that celebrates it.
Exactly.


Christmas has a Santa Clause. Easter has a Easter Bunny. So the celebrations have fallen far away from religion. You can look at as a commercial money make scheme, you can look at it as Christian celebrations with Pagan roots... but it's really simple. It's a time set aside to spend with family over a homecooked meal. It's a beautiful thing. No matter what creed or color or ethnicity, I think times like these spent in the ways they do, please God, personally.
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Grace Seeker
11-29-2010, 01:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by B_M
Christmas has a Santa Clause. Easter has a Easter Bunny. So the celebrations have fallen far away from religion.
Sadly true. Personally, I could do with a little less bunny and elf, and a little more of the holy in my holidays. If that means that Christmas is no longer a national holiday, so be it. In defrence to the commercial establishments that depend on a holiday as an excuse to make money, I suggest Santamas which could be celebrated on December 6, the traditional day for recognizing St. Nicholas, and a day when gifts are often given to children in some other countries.
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سيف الله
11-29-2010, 02:01 AM
Salaam

Have to agree with you there Grace. Though I don't celebrate Christmas and Easter (obviously) I admit I do miss the Christian aspects of these celebrations. I remember at school they used to sing 'silent night' and many other songs/hyms. Used to enjoy it. Thats long gone.

Now its little more than an opportunity to sell commercialised pap, holds little interest for me. A shame really.
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S.Belle
11-29-2010, 02:41 AM
Im an american muslim I dont celebrate xmas but exchange gifts with family bc they are christians and I only give a gift back bc they gave me one not to celebrate anything but we do have a cookout for 4th of july we probably shouldnt but we are so use to it and its just...traditional in a way. For thanksgiving we just go to be with family and nothing more its more of their special day and we are the guests we respect them and they respect our holidays.
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Woodrow
11-29-2010, 11:27 AM
Although the word Holiday originally meant Holy-Day they are now 2 separate meanings. in America. Holiday in America now means a day off of work Holy-day is a religious celebration. It is more of a ruling of Labor Unions and not of any Religious Celebration that there are mandatory Federal Holidays. For those of us who spent much of our life in self Employment or in a professional field it often meant a loss of income if we took the day off. I really can not recall ever having a holiday off except during my School years. Just a bit of trivia: Thanksgiving did not become a Federal Holiday until 1942. Prior to then beginning in 1863 annually the President would proclaim a National Day of Thanksgiving generally on Nov 26. But it was not mandatory for employers to give workers the day off. Christmas became a Federal Holiday in 1870. Most of the other Federal Holidays did not come about until after the minimum wage laws came about in 1938.
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