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View Full Version : Cables Obtained by WikiLeaks Shine Light Into Secret Diplomatic Channels



Ramadhan
11-29-2010, 04:16 AM
From http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/wo...o_interstitial


By SCOTT SHANE and ANDREW W. LEHREN
Published: November 28, 2010


WASHINGTON — A cache of a quarter-million confidential American diplomatic cables, most of them from the past three years, provides an unprecedented look at back-room bargaining by embassies around the world, brutally candid views of foreign leaders and frank assessments of nuclear and terrorist threats.
State's Secrets

Some of the cables, made available to The New York Times and several other news organizations, were written as recently as late February, revealing the Obama administration’s exchanges over crises and conflicts. The material was originally obtained by WikiLeaks, an organization devoted to revealing secret documents. WikiLeaks posted the first installment of the archive on its Web site on Sunday.

The disclosure of the cables is sending shudders through the diplomatic establishment, and could strain relations with some countries, influencing international affairs in ways that are impossible to predict.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and American ambassadors around the world have been contacting foreign officials in recent days to alert them to the expected disclosures. A statement from the White House on Sunday said: “We condemn in the strongest terms the unauthorized disclosure of classified documents and sensitive national security information.

“President Obama supports responsible, accountable, and open government at home and around the world, but this reckless and dangerous action runs counter to that goal. By releasing stolen and classified documents, WikiLeaks has put at risk not only the cause of human rights but also the lives and work of these individuals.”

The cables, a huge sampling of the daily traffic between the State Department and some 270 embassies and consulates, amount to a secret chronicle of the United States’ relations with the world in an age of war and terrorism. Among their revelations, to be detailed in The Times in coming days:

¶ A dangerous standoff with Pakistan over nuclear fuel: Since 2007, the United States has mounted a highly secret effort, so far unsuccessful, to remove from a Pakistani research reactor highly enriched uranium that American officials fear could be diverted for use in an illicit nuclear device. In May 2009, Ambassador Anne W. Patterson reported that Pakistan was refusing to schedule a visit by American technical experts because, as a Pakistani official said, “if the local media got word of the fuel removal, ‘they certainly would portray it as the United States taking Pakistan’s nuclear weapons,’ he argued.”

¶ Thinking about an eventual collapse of North Korea: American and South Korean officials have discussed the prospects for a unified Korea, should the North’s economic troubles and political transition lead the state to implode. The South Koreans even considered commercial inducements to China, according to the American ambassador to Seoul. She told Washington in February that South Korean officials believe that the right business deals would “help salve” China’s “concerns about living with a reunified Korea” that is in a “benign alliance” with the United States.

¶ Bargaining to empty the Guantánamo Bay prison: When American diplomats pressed other countries to resettle detainees, they became reluctant players in a State Department version of “Let’s Make a Deal.” Slovenia was told to take a prisoner if it wanted to meet with President Obama, while the island nation of Kiribati was offered incentives worth millions of dollars to take in Chinese Muslim detainees, cables from diplomats recounted. The Americans, meanwhile, suggested that accepting more prisoners would be “a low-cost way for Belgium to attain prominence in Europe.”

¶ Suspicions of corruption in the Afghan government: When Afghanistan’s vice president visited the United Arab Emirates last year, local authorities working with the Drug Enforcement Administration discovered that he was carrying $52 million in cash. With wry understatement, a cable from the American Embassy in Kabul called the money “a significant amount” that the official, Ahmed Zia Massoud, “was ultimately allowed to keep without revealing the money’s origin or destination.” (Mr. Massoud denies taking any money out of Afghanistan.)

¶ A global computer hacking effort: China’s Politburo directed the intrusion into Google’s computer systems in that country, a Chinese contact told the American Embassy in Beijing in January, one cable reported. The Google hacking was part of a coordinated campaign of computer sabotage carried out by government operatives, private security experts and Internet outlaws recruited by the Chinese government. They have broken into American government computers and those of Western allies, the Dalai Lama and American businesses since 2002, cables said.

¶ Mixed records against terrorism: Saudi donors remain the chief financiers of Sunni militant groups like Al Qaeda, and the tiny Persian Gulf state of Qatar, a generous host to the American military for years, was the “worst in the region” in counterterrorism efforts, according to a State Department cable last December. Qatar’s security service was “hesitant to act against known terrorists out of concern for appearing to be aligned with the U.S. and provoking reprisals,” the cable said.

¶ An intriguing alliance: American diplomats in Rome reported in 2009 on what their Italian contacts described as an extraordinarily close relationship between Vladimir V. Putin, the Russian prime minister, and Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian prime minister and business magnate, including “lavish gifts,” lucrative energy contracts and a “shadowy” Russian-speaking Italian go-between. They wrote that Mr. Berlusconi “appears increasingly to be the mouthpiece of Putin” in Europe. The diplomats also noted that while Mr. Putin enjoyed supremacy over all other public figures in Russia, he was undermined by an unmanageable bureaucracy that often ignored his edicts.
State's Secrets

¶ Arms deliveries to militants: Cables describe the United States’ failing struggle to prevent Syria from supplying arms to Hezbollah in Lebanon, which has amassed a huge stockpile since its 2006 war with Israel. One week after President Bashar al-Assad promised a top State Department official that he would not send “new” arms to Hezbollah, the United States complained that it had information that Syria was providing increasingly sophisticated weapons to the group.

¶ Clashes with Europe over human rights: American officials sharply warned Germany in 2007 not to enforce arrest warrants for Central Intelligence Agency officers involved in a bungled operation in which an innocent German citizen with the same name as a suspected militant was mistakenly kidnapped and held for months in Afghanistan. A senior American diplomat told a German official “that our intention was not to threaten Germany, but rather to urge that the German government weigh carefully at every step of the way the implications for relations with the U.S.”

The 251,287 cables, first acquired by WikiLeaks, were provided to The Times by an intermediary on the condition of anonymity. Many are unclassified, and none are marked “top secret,” the government’s most secure communications status. But some 11,000 are classified “secret,” 9,000 are labeled “noforn,” shorthand for material considered too delicate to be shared with any foreign government, and 4,000 are designated both secret and noforn.

Many more cables name diplomats’ confidential sources, from foreign legislators and military officers to human rights activists and journalists, often with a warning to Washington: “Please protect” or “Strictly protect.”

The Times, after consultations with the State Department, has withheld from articles and removed from documents it is posting online the names of some people who spoke privately to diplomats and might be at risk if they were publicly identified. The Times is also withholding some passages or entire cables whose disclosure could compromise American intelligence efforts. While the White House said it anticipated WikiLeaks would make public “several hundred thousand” cables Sunday night, the organization posted only 220 released and redacted by The Times and several European publications.

The cables show that nearly a decade after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, the dark shadow of terrorism still dominates the United States’ relations with the world. They depict the Obama administration struggling to sort out which Pakistanis are trustworthy partners against Al Qaeda, adding Australians who have disappeared in the Middle East to terrorist watch lists, and assessing whether a lurking rickshaw driver in Lahore, Pakistan, was awaiting fares or conducting surveillance of the road to the American Consulate.

They show officials managing relations with a China on the rise and a Russia retreating from democracy. They document years of effort to prevent Iran from building a nuclear weapon — and of worry about a possible Israeli strike on Iran with the same goal.

Even when they recount events that are already known, the cables offer remarkable details.

For instance, it has been previously reported that the Yemeni government has sought to cover up the American role in missile strikes against the local branch of Al Qaeda. But a cable’s fly-on-the-wall account of a January meeting between the Yemeni president, Ali Abdullah Saleh, and Gen. David H. Petraeus, then the American commander in the Middle East, is breathtaking.

“We’ll continue saying the bombs are ours, not yours,” Mr. Saleh said, according to the cable sent by the American ambassador, prompting Yemen’s deputy prime minister to “joke that he had just ‘lied’ by telling Parliament” that Yemen had carried out the strikes.

Mr. Saleh, who at other times resisted American counterterrorism requests, was in a lighthearted mood. The authoritarian ruler of a conservative Muslim country, Mr. Saleh complains of smuggling from nearby Djibouti, but tells General Petraeus that his concerns are drugs and weapons, not whiskey, “provided it’s good whiskey.”

Likewise, press reports detailed the unhappiness of the Libyan leader, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, when he was not permitted to set up his tent in Manhattan or to visit ground zero during a United Nations session last year.

But the cables add a touch of scandal and alarm to the tale. They describe the volatile Libyan leader as rarely without the companionship of “his senior Ukrainian nurse,” described as “a voluptuous blonde.” They reveal that Colonel Qaddafi was so upset by his reception in New York that he balked at carrying out a promise to return dangerous enriched uranium to Russia. The American ambassador to Libya told Colonel Qaddafi’s son “that the Libyan government had chosen a very dangerous venue to express its pique,” a cable reported to Washington.
State's Secrets

The cables also disclose frank comments behind closed doors. Dispatches from early this year, for instance, quote the aging monarch of Saudi Arabia, King Abdullah, as speaking scathingly about the leaders of Iraq and Pakistan.

Speaking to another Iraqi official about Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, the Iraqi prime minister, King Abdullah said, “You and Iraq are in my heart, but that man is not.” The king called President Asif Ali Zardari of Pakistan the greatest obstacle to that country’s progress. “When the head is rotten,” he said, “it affects the whole body.”

The American ambassador to Eritrea reported last year that “Eritrean officials are ignorant or lying” in denying that they were supporting the Shabab, a militant Islamist group in Somalia. The cable then mused about which seemed more likely.

As he left Zimbabwe in 2007 after three years as ambassador, Christopher W. Dell wrote a sardonic account of Robert Mugabe, that country’s aging and erratic leader. The cable called him “a brilliant tactician” but mocked “his deep ignorance on economic issues (coupled with the belief that his 18 doctorates give him the authority to suspend the laws of economics).”

The possibility that a large number of diplomatic cables might become public has been discussed in government and media circles since May. That was when, in an online chat, an Army intelligence analyst, Pfc. Bradley Manning, described having downloaded from a military computer system many classified documents, including “260,000 State Department cables from embassies and consulates all over the world.” In an online discussion with Adrian Lamo, a computer hacker, Private Manning said he had delivered the cables and other documents to WikiLeaks.

Mr. Lamo reported Private Manning’s disclosures to federal authorities, and Private Manning was arrested. He has been charged with illegally leaking classified information and faces a possible court-martial and, if convicted, a lengthy prison term.

In July and October, The Times, the British newspaper The Guardian and the German magazine Der Spiegel published articles based on documents about Afghanistan and Iraq. Those collections were placed online by WikiLeaks, with selective redactions of the Afghan documents and much heavier redactions of the Iraq reports.

Fodder for Historians

Traditionally, most diplomatic cables remain secret for decades, providing fodder for historians only when the participants are long retired or dead. The State Department’s unclassified history series, titled “Foreign Relations of the United States,” has reached only 1972.

While an overwhelming majority of the quarter-million cables provided to The Times are from the post-9/11 era, several hundred date from 1966 to the 1990s. Some show diplomats struggling to make sense of major events whose future course they could not guess.

In a 1979 cable to Washington, Bruce Laingen, an American diplomat in Tehran, mused with a knowing tone about the Iranian revolution that had just occurred: “Perhaps the single dominant aspect of the Persian psyche is an overriding egoism,” Mr. Laingen wrote, offering tips on exploiting this psyche in negotiations with the new government. Less than three months later, Mr. Laingen and his colleagues would be taken hostage by radical Iranian students, hurling the Carter administration into crisis and, perhaps, demonstrating the hazards of diplomatic hubris.

In 1989, an American diplomat in Panama City mulled over the options open to Gen. Manuel Noriega, the Panamanian leader, who was facing narcotics charges in the United States and intense domestic and international political pressure to step down. The cable called General Noriega “a master of survival”; its author appeared to have no inkling that one week later, the United States would invade Panama to unseat General Noriega and arrest him.

In 1990, an American diplomat sent an excited dispatch from Cape Town: he had just learned from a lawyer for Nelson Mandela that Mr. Mandela’s 27-year imprisonment was to end. The cable conveys the momentous changes about to begin for South Africa, even as it discusses preparations for an impending visit from the Rev. Jesse L. Jackson.

The voluminous traffic of more recent years — well over half of the quarter-million cables date from 2007 or later — show American officials struggling with events whose outcomes are far from sure. To read through them is to become a global voyeur, immersed in the jawboning, inducements and penalties the United States wields in trying to have its way with a recalcitrant world.

In an era of satellites and fiber-optic links, the cable retains the archaic name of an earlier technological era. It has long been the tool for the secretary of state to send orders to the field and for ambassadors and political officers to send their analyses to Washington.
State's Secrets

The cables have their own lexicon: “codel,” for a Congressional delegation; “visas viper,” for a report on a person considered dangerous; “démarche,” an official message to a foreign government, often a protest or warning.

But the drama in the cables often comes from diplomats’ narratives of meetings with foreign figures, games of diplomatic poker in which each side is sizing up the other and neither is showing all its cards.

Among the most fascinating examples recount American officials’ meetings in September 2009 and February 2010 with Ahmed Wali Karzai, the half brother of the Afghan president and a power broker in the Taliban’s home turf of Kandahar.

They describe Mr. Karzai, “dressed in a crisp white shalwar kameez,” the traditional dress of loose tunic and trousers, appearing “nervous, though eager to express his views on the international presence in Kandahar,” and trying to win over the Americans with nostalgic tales about his years running a Chicago restaurant near Wrigley Field.

But in midnarrative there is a stark alert for anyone reading the cable in Washington: “Note: While we must deal with AWK as the head of the Provincial Council, he is widely understood to be corrupt and a narcotics trafficker.” (Mr. Karzai has denied such charges.) And the cables note statements by Mr. Karzai that the Americans, informed by a steady flow of eavesdropping and agents’ reports, believe to be false.

A cable written after the February meeting coolly took note of the deceit on both sides.

Mr. Karzai “demonstrated that he will dissemble when it suits his needs,” the cable said. “He appears not to understand the level of our knowledge of his activities. We will need to monitor his activity closely, and deliver a recurring, transparent message to him” about the limits of American tolerance.

Not All Business

Even in places far from war zones and international crises, where the stakes for the United States are not as high, curious diplomats can turn out to be accomplished reporters, sending vivid dispatches to deepen the government’s understanding of exotic places.

In a 2006 account, a wide-eyed American diplomat describes the lavish wedding of a well-connected couple in Dagestan, in Russia’s Caucasus, where one guest is the strongman who runs the war-ravaged Russian republic of Chechnya, Ramzan Kadyrov.

The diplomat tells of drunken guests throwing $100 bills at child dancers, and nighttime water-scooter jaunts on the Caspian Sea.

“The dancers probably picked upwards of USD 5000 off the cobblestones,” the diplomat wrote. The host later tells him that Ramzan Kadyrov “had brought the happy couple ‘a five-kilo lump of gold’ as his wedding present.”

“After the dancing and a quick tour of the premises, Ramzan and his army drove off back to Chechnya,” the diplomat reported to Washington. “We asked why Ramzan did not spend the night in Makhachkala, and were told, ‘Ramzan never spends the night anywhere.’ ”
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LauraS
11-30-2010, 06:52 PM
The comment about diplomatic poker is right. As people just trying to live our lives, not as any particular race or culture doesn't it annoy you that their spy games could affect our lives. A leader falls out with another leader and starts arming up and where would these missiles fall, on us.
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Dagless
11-30-2010, 07:00 PM
Has anyone downloaded the wikileaks stuff? I've been meaning to for a while now but then I have the whole "I'm Muslim, would this be ok?" feeling.
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GuestFellow
11-30-2010, 07:02 PM
^ I don't understand how to use the wikleaks website. :/
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جوري
11-30-2010, 07:02 PM
is there another Chanel to download that won't be traced to your computer? or will a wiki leak on your computer make you an automatic 'Al Qaeda' operative to be shipped to gitmo along with the other axis of evil :haha:

:w:
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أحمد
11-30-2010, 07:08 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
is there another Chanel to download that won't be traced to your computer? or will a wiki leak on your computer make you an automatic 'Al Qaeda' operative to be shipped to gitmo along with the other axis of evil :haha:

:w:
There's no such thing as "untraceable", when its a matter of Internet. The well preferred anonymity methods available, are not nearly good enough to ensure privacy. There are some "very good" methods, but even those aren't completely untraceable.

:wa:
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جوري
11-30-2010, 07:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by أحمد
There's no such thing as "untraceable", when its a matter of Internet. The well preferred anonymity methods available, are not nearly good enough to ensure privacy. There are some "very good" methods, but even those aren't completely untraceable.


especially for those of us completely computer challenged :haha:
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Dagless
11-30-2010, 07:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
is there another Chanel to download that won't be traced to your computer?
Depends on resources, it's not some film studio or music label :p Although I don't think it's even illegal. I may take the plunge later.

format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
or will a wiki leak on your computer make you an automatic 'Al Qaeda' operative to be shipped to gitmo along with the other axis of evil :haha:
Yep, this is what I mean. I can see the cover story now - "he was suspected of viewing sensitive documents" :D
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أحمد
11-30-2010, 07:27 PM
:sl:

On the topic of alternative channels; there are a number of possibilities. They are by no means, limited to DC++, torrents, or other file-sharing mediums.

:wa:
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جوري
11-30-2010, 07:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless
Yep, this is what I mean. I can see the cover story now - "he was suspected of viewing sensitive documents"

you wish.. they will invent crimes for you, you'd have never dreamt of...
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أحمد
11-30-2010, 07:45 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ


you wish.. they will invent crimes for you, you'd have never dreamt of...
This reminds me of someone, who got arrested for possessing a copy of the Muslim Directory (a British Muslim Business Information Directory).

:wa:
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جوري
11-30-2010, 07:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by أحمد
This reminds me of someone, who got arrested for possessing a copy of the Muslim Directory (a British Muslim Business Information Directory).

all you need is sophistry and an idiotic audience.. both which happen to exist in abundance ..
7asbona Allah wa'ni3ma alwakeel..

:w:
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aamirsaab
11-30-2010, 09:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless
Has anyone downloaded the wikileaks stuff? I've been meaning to for a while now but then I have the whole "I'm Muslim, would this be ok?" feeling.
You know, I had that feeling the day I was born.

It's a shame everyone is on this wikileaks' guy's ass though. Especially given all that crap about freedom of speech.
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titus
12-01-2010, 03:11 PM
It's a shame everyone is on this wikileaks' guy's ass though. Especially given all that crap about freedom of speech.
People get so confused about freedom of speech and what it is and what it is not.

Yelling "Fire!" in the middle of a theater is not protected by freedom of speech.
If you say something and are criticized for it BOTH forms of speech are protected.
Freedom of Speech means you have the right to not be prosecuted by the government for speaking your opinion. That does not mean that your employer cannot fire you for saying something they find offensive.
Freedom of Speech does not mean that you can have someone steal Top Secret documents for you and you can post them on the internet.

Freedom of Speech is not total, and it certainly does not imply that there should never be any repercussions for saying whatever it is that you say.
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أحمد
12-01-2010, 03:27 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by titus
People get so confused about freedom of speech and what it is and what it is not.

Yelling "Fire!" in the middle of a theater is not protected by freedom of speech.
If you say something and are criticized for it BOTH forms of speech are protected.
Freedom of Speech means you have the right to not be prosecuted by the government for speaking your opinion. That does not mean that your employer cannot fire you for saying something they find offensive.
Freedom of Speech does not mean that you can have someone steal Top Secret documents for you and you can post them on the internet.

Freedom of Speech is not total, and it certainly does not imply that there should never be any repercussions for saying whatever it is that you say.
Interesting. Maybe such a definition should be taken into consideration by Governments, before allowing "certain" companies to "legally" spy on people; this includes accessing possibly "confidential" information, or just plenty of "personal information", which many people have easily accessable on their computers.

I'm not limiting this to facebook; although its popular for capturing "other" information from its users computers; its not alone.

:wa:
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titus
12-01-2010, 03:55 PM
Yeah, there should be certain expectations of privacy even on the internet. It's still a whole new world of information exchange, though, and the rules are being written and figured out daily and there are still too many loopholes that haven't been filled in.

I have had a few of my employees try and friend me on Facebook and I have turned them down. One took it personally until I explained I didn't want to have to fire anyone based on something they put on their facebook page.

Until the balance between privacy and freedom of speech is clearly delineated I simply recommend not putting any information out on the internet that you don't want a few billion people to know.

That being said, these reports were all confidential and legally protected and that is why people are "on his ass".
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aamirsaab
12-01-2010, 04:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
{snip}
That being said, these reports were all confidential and legally protected and that is why people are "on his ass".
It it was a matter of legality, the guy in question would be taken to court. Instead, he's being slandered (and dubious allegations made against him) for his "crimes", which is merely distribution of data on the internet no less (where freedom of speech is an absolute). Besides, he's only confirming what everyone with a brain cell knows anyhow.
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Muslim Woman
12-01-2010, 04:15 PM
Salaam

U.S. opens criminal investigation against WikiLeaks founder: Julian Assange:

Obama administration is 'a regime that doesn't believe in the freedom of the press'
http://bit.ly/hM9yaK


===


Ecuador offers refuge to Assange:

WikiLeaks founder is welcome to find a home in the Latin American country with no conditions, minister says.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/am...515743921.html
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titus
12-01-2010, 04:29 PM
where freedom of speech is an absolute
Freedom of Speech is not an absolute on the internet. Not even close.

It it was a matter of legality, the guy in question would be taken to court.
Considering that he is not an American citizen, nor living in the US it is more difficult than normal. The US is talking to Australia about what he can or cannot be possibly charged with. Even if the US did charge him under its own laws all he would have to pretty much do is stay out of the US to avoid prosecution.
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أحمد
12-01-2010, 04:37 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by titus
Until the balance between privacy and freedom of speech is clearly delineated I simply recommend not putting any information out on the internet that you don't want a few billion people to know.
I think you misunderstood my post; its not about people putting their private details onto facebook, its about facebook capturing such details from the nodes used to access their website.

How does it work?

Capturing information isn't rocket science, especially for those who are familiar with the way "the internet works". With the case of websites; they can use cookies to allow users to "login". This can be a "perfectly safe" way to use a facility. It can and is however, being used by facebook; to capture details of those nodes, including their websearches, private documents, etc, without the "consent" (full knowledge) of its users.

Can this information be accessed by other people?
Yes, facebook has been "hacked" several times; leading to much peoples private information "leaking out onto the web".

What about facebook's security?
Whenever "security" becomes a word, which is compatible with "facebook"; remind me to edit this post, and add such "information" here.

:wa:
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Dagless
12-01-2010, 04:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
Freedom of Speech is not an absolute on the internet. Not even close.
I am not aware of anything which cannot be found on the internet. Wouldn't that indicate freedom? Countries may filter what their citizens are allowed to see but that's not the same thing.

format_quote Originally Posted by titus
Considering that he is not an American citizen, nor living in the US it is more difficult than normal. The US is talking to Australia about what he can or cannot be possibly charged with. Even if the US did charge him under its own laws all he would have to pretty much do is stay out of the US to avoid prosecution.
He doesn't leak the information (which is the main crime) and it would be difficult to prove he himself shared it. As you say; he's not even a US citizen.

format_quote Originally Posted by أحمد
Capturing information isn't rocket science, especially for those who are familiar with the way "the internet works". With the case of websites; they can use cookies to allow users to "login". This can be a "perfectly safe" way to use a facility. It can and is however, being used by facebook; to capture details of those nodes, including their websearches, private documents, etc, without the "consent" (full knowledge) of its users.
You'll have to back this up since I think it's just scaremongering. Facebook somehow having access to a users private documents without consent would be front page news.
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aamirsaab
12-01-2010, 04:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
Freedom of Speech is not an absolute on the internet. Not even close.
I can find you plenty of sites that explicitly say and show otherwise. Without risking an arrest warrent on my being (and potentially others), I am hopeful you will appreciate me not linking such sites.

Considering that he is not an American citizen, nor living in the US it is more difficult than normal. The US is talking to Australia about what he can or cannot be possibly charged with. Even if the US did charge him under its own laws all he would have to pretty much do is stay out of the US to avoid prosecution.
I will conceed on that point. But, that doesn't excuse the dubious allegations (and the rest) being made against him for leaking documents....by America.

I appreciate the need for secrecy (say credit card details or personal numbers for instance) but I will call poetic justice (or bull**** if you prefer) when I see it, especially as far as the government is concerned.

Lastly, if you would consider the following statement: Governments should be afraid of it's people and not the other way round. I believe this particular case is a prime example of that, especially in today's "democractic" world.
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titus
12-01-2010, 05:05 PM
I am not aware of anything which cannot be found on the internet. Wouldn't that indicate freedom?
No. You can be arrested for posting the wrong things on the internet or conducting business improperly. The internet is not a complete free for all. In many ways it is even less so since what you write is recorded electronically and can be used in court.

I can find you plenty of sites that explicitly say and show otherwise. Without risking an arrest warrent on my being (and potentially others), I am hopeful you will appreciate me not linking such sites.
If you threatened to kill me on the internet that would be illegal and not protected under freedom of speech. If you created a site that showed something illegal, such as child pornography, that would illegal and not protected by freedom of speech. So no, freedom of speech is not an absolute on the internet.

I appreciate the need for secrecy but I will call poetic justice (or bull**** if you prefere) when I see it.
I understand how those that hate the US government would be getting a kick out of this.

What would really be a kick would be to see him do the same thing to other governments like China, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc. I would bet that the American cables would appear even more benign compared to some of those.
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أحمد
12-01-2010, 05:18 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless
You'll have to back this up since I think it's just scaremongering. Facebook somehow having access to a users private documents without consent would be front page news.
You mean "scaremongering" like this?

And of course, there's more. It just requires some effort to search for "acceptable media references".

:wa:
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Dagless
12-01-2010, 05:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
No. You can be arrested for posting the wrong things on the internet or conducting business improperly. The internet is not a complete free for all. In many ways it is even less so since what you write is recorded electronically and can be used in court.

If you threatened to kill me on the internet that would be illegal and not protected under freedom of speech. If you created a site that showed something illegal, such as child pornography, that would illegal and not protected by freedom of speech. So no, freedom of speech is not an absolute on the internet.
That's under your local legal system, what makes you think it applies elsewhere? There have been many such sites (and sadly there continue to be).
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Dagless
12-01-2010, 05:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by أحمد
:sl:



You mean "scaremongering" like this?

And of course, there's more. It just requires some effort to search for "acceptable media references".

:wa:
That's not for users private documents.
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أحمد
12-01-2010, 05:33 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless
That's not for users private documents.
One of the two "scaremongering" features, has already been referenced. The other one can be sorted out soon :inshallah

format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless
format_quote Originally Posted by أحمد

Capturing information isn't rocket science, especially for those who are familiar with the way "the internet works". With the case of websites; they can use cookies to allow users to "login". This can be a "perfectly safe" way to use a facility. It can and is however, being used by facebook; to capture details of those nodes, including their websearches, private documents, etc, without the "consent" (full knowledge) of its users.
You'll have to back this up since I think it's just scaremongering. Facebook somehow having access to a users private documents without consent would be front page news.
:wa:
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titus
12-01-2010, 05:38 PM
That's under your local legal system, what makes you think it applies elsewhere? There have been many such sites (and there continue to be).
I am not aware of any legal system that claims they have no jurisdiction over the internet. Are you?

As I said, freedom of speech on the internet is not an absolute. For that to be true then not one single country would have any control whatsoever over content. We both know that is not even close to reality. Every country has some kind of limit on content.
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Abdul-Raouf
12-01-2010, 05:50 PM
The Fox is leaking secrets.......as part of its wicked plan...

Beware!!! ...the Jungle is in trouble.
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Dagless
12-01-2010, 05:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
I am not aware of any legal system that claims they have no jurisdiction over the internet. Are you?

As I said, freedom of speech on the internet is not an absolute. For that to be true then not one single country would have any control whatsoever over content. We both know that is not even close to reality. Every country has some kind of limit on content.
Isn't that what I said earlier? That they can only control what their citizens view (and even then not 100%) but have no control on what's out there. This is before you take into account the peer to peer stuff which goes on within borders. An example of this is freenet - ok it's not as amazing as some avenues but it's something the average user has access to.

edit: Oops off-topic again. Maybe we should open a new thread if this is to continue.
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أحمد
12-01-2010, 05:57 PM
:sl:

Since facebook has joined this discussion; we have a second external link. More about what facebook "knows", about its users. That calls for a third link.

:wa:
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جوري
12-01-2010, 06:11 PM
Isn't facebook owned by Zionists anyway? .. I really don't trust it as a portal of disseminating information or exchanging it.. probably they have taps on all its muslim users...
there is no need to be hyper vigilant just because the truth is on your side..
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أحمد
12-01-2010, 06:24 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
Isn't facebook owned by Zionists anyway? .. I really don't trust it as a portal of disseminating information or exchanging it.. probably they have taps on all its muslim users...
there is no need to be hyper vigilant just because the truth is on your side..
All the founders and owners are Jewish, but I don't know much about them. I don't like their website; mainly due to the reason I wrote previously, so I don't use it. The matter of involvement of Zionism, only makes things worse for Muslim users.

:wa:
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Beardo
12-01-2010, 06:42 PM
WikiLeaks is a security threat. Govt do things in secrecy with good reason. This'll be bad for US. :(
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CosmicPathos
12-01-2010, 06:44 PM
^^ ya right.
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GuestFellow
12-01-2010, 06:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rashad
WikiLeaks is a security threat. Govt do things in secrecy with good reason. This'll be bad for US. :(
:sl:

Are you serious? O_O
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Beardo
12-01-2010, 07:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
:sl:

Are you serious? O_O
Of course I'm serious. But there's more to it. Anyhow, Clinton herself is in trouble too... Gotta think twice before sayign things.
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Tilmeez
12-01-2010, 07:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rashad
Clinton herself is in trouble too
Really? :-o :ermm:
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سيف الله
12-01-2010, 07:23 PM
Salaam

Security threat really? I doubt that, Some British diplomat said its more embarassing than anything else and much of it was known or could of been guessed. Though it is interesting to see how the Americans think, always good to have hard proof.

This whole business of 'secrecy' Ive always been iffy about, to me its little to do with security and more to do with stopping populations understanding what their governments are up to.

Of interest to me was how Obama called Cameron a 'lightweight' and that he has little interest in European affairs. Also interesting is how the Arab dictatorships have been urging the US to attack Iran nuclear facilities, shows whos' 'side' they are on.

Really good service wikileaks are providing, if there was any justice in the world they would be winning peace prizes.
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Trumble
12-01-2010, 11:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Junon
Also interesting is how the Arab dictatorships have been urging the US to attack Iran nuclear facilities, shows whos' 'side' they are on.
A simple look at the map will explain why. Being on Iran's 'side' wouldn't move them to somewhere other than smack in the middle between Iran and it's most likely nuclear target (which has nukes already, of course). What is also interesting is that, despite such urgings, the US chose not to do so. What is outright hilarious is that the Iranians are pretending this never happened, and that the whole thing is just US propaganda! ;D
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IslamicRevival
12-02-2010, 12:33 AM
Wikileaks is another tool created BY America to spread propaganda. Its a SHAM

Wikileaks Is Zionist Poison
by Jonathan Azaziah

Disinformation is defined as ‘misinformation that is deliberately disseminated in order to influence or confuse rivals.’ It is used by governments to mislead and brainwash their citizen populations, instigate wars, and blackmail foreign regimes. It is the ultimate instrument of the media. The most effective disinformation is that which is comprised of falsehood as well as facts. Wikileaks, founded by Julian Assange, fits this description perfectly, right down to the letter. Seemingly overnight, it has become one of the biggest ‘whistle-blowing’ agencies in modern history. In reality though, it is one of the biggest disinformation projects in modern history, and it may be the most dangerous because it is masquerading as an organization of truth. The information released by Wikileaks isn’t new; it isn’t groundbreaking; it doesn’t hurt the US as much as people think, it’s fractional really; and it is overloaded with as much as propaganda as the day-to-day Zionist media is. This propaganda is benefitting someone. And that someone is the illegal usurping entity of Israel. Even the Israeli government itself thinks so (1).

Afghanistan Drivel

The first major ‘leak’ released earlier this year by Assange was about occupied Afghanistan in the form of more than 92,000 documents. These docs included ‘secret files’ about civilian killings by the US and NATO along with boogeyman stories about the long-dead Osama Bin Laden, garbage regarding the Taliban acquiring ground-to-air missiles, and plenty of lies about Pakistan’s intelligence agency, the ISI (2). There wasn’t a single document about the Israeli training of the Taliban (3), the massive drug profiteering by the Mossad (4), the CIA (5) and the US-puppet Hamid Karzai and his brother (6), Karzai’s connections to Unocal and Zionist war criminal Henry Kissinger (7), the clandestine Israeli business operations set up to take control of the oil fields in neighboring Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and Kazakhstan (8), or the Russian-Jewish mafia, fully protected by the Zionist entity, selling guns to US-backed Afghan warlords (9). Why weren’t any of these massively important, critically ****ing events and operations mentioned? Because by doing so, it would incriminate the already internationally condemned Zionist regime. Journalists, bloggers and activists, from occupied Afghanistan and abroad, have been reporting on the vast civilian casualties in Afghanistan since US intervention began more than 30 years ago. Wikileaks revealed nothing that wasn’t already known; however, it did reinforce Zionist propaganda regarding the illegal ‘war on terror.’

Iraq Malarkey

The next major ‘leak’ by Assange’s organization, which has gained more notoriety than the previous ‘leak,’ was about occupied Iraq in the form of nearly 400,000 documents. Like the occupied Afghanistan disinformation, it included ‘secret files’ about mass civilian killings by US forces, torture by war criminal Nouri al-Maliki and his forces (which according to Wikileaks, US military officials attempted to halt) (10), US government failings in reprimanding Blackwater (XE) for committing murder (11), and brutal executions by the American and British occupiers mixed with more tripe about fictitious Al-Qaeda, nonsense about Iran training militant Iraqi militias and Iranian drones flying over Iraq (12), Iran smuggling guns, munitions, and explosives into Iraq (13), ridiculous accusations of the Lebanese Resistance movement Hezbollah training Iraqis in the art of kidnaping (14), slanderous attacks on Iran’s Revolutionary Guard, and other absurd assertions about the Islamic Republic involved in the murder of innocent Iraqis. The Wikileaks Iraq war logs also ‘reveal’ civilian casualties numbered at 66,081 (15). The logs also ‘reveal’ that Iraqi WMDs actually did exist, as US soldiers found chemical weapons labs, terrorist toxin specialists, and chemical weapons caches (16).

There was nothing ‘secret’ about American and British forces murdering, torturing and raping innocents in occupied Iraq. Like Afghanistan, Iraqi and international journalists, bloggers, and activists have been reporting the murder of civilians in Iraq since the beginning of the illegal occupation, with much more effectiveness than Wikileaks. The US military didn’t attempt to halt the puppet al-Maliki’s torture of unlawfully imprisoned Iraqis, they partook in it. They led the way after they signed off on it. They were the primary perpetrators (17). Secret prisons are still operating at this very moment where US forces barbarously torture innocent Iraqis (18). The US hired Blackwater’s contractors to instill fear and execute terrorism against the people of Iraq, of course it didn’t reprimand them. Erik Prince’s private army of terror was only doing what it was told to by the US government.

The concept of Hezbollah training foreign militias to meddle in state affairs is absolute lunacy; Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah himself has stated on numerous occasions that if Hezbollah wanted to overthrow the Lebanese government, they would’ve done so already (19). Their objectives (as evidenced by their actions), are to protect the Lebanese people, provide them with security and uphold their dignity. Hezbollah hasn’t undermined its own government, it is asinine to think it would undermine the government of another nation. The propaganda targeting Iran is pathetic; there are enough guns in Iraq thanks to American support of Saddam Hussein to last lifetimes (20), there was no need for Iran to provide weapons to Iraqi militias through ‘smuggling.’ The only drones that were flying in Iraq’s skies belonged to the repulsive Zionist entity, not Iran (21). The other accusations sound like concoctions dug up from the dungeons of Zionist think tanks and lobby organizations salivating for the destruction of the Islamic Republic, not the work of whistle-blowers attempting to expose corruption and disseminate truth. These accusations further the Zionist case for striking Iran militarily. These accusations are promoting more war, not peace.

Wikileaks must not have gotten the memo about civilian casualties in occupied Iraq. They are nowhere near 66,081. They have eclipsed the 1.5 million mark. Anything less than this, especially a number as low as the one presented by Wikileaks, is classic misreporting aimed at protecting the United States government and its collaborators. That is an insult to the 5 million Iraqi orphans and the 5 million Iraqi refugees. It is a slap in the face to the dead Iraqis whose names will never be known because they were incinerated by US and Israeli weaponry. And the notion that US soldiers found WMDs in Iraq, after the ‘Iraq has WMDs’ myth has been debunked as Zionist-designed propaganda over and over again, is frankly, infuriating. The only WMDs that exist in Iraq are the mark-77, white phosphorus, and thousands of tons of depleted uranium used in Basra, Baghdad, and Fallujah by the terrorist army of the US and strategically placed Mossad agents of Israel (22).

Targeted On Behalf Of Israel

Where are the leaks on the 55 Zionist companies profiting from Iraqi blood being spilled (23)? Where are the leaks on Iraq’s artifacts being stolen by Zionist agents (24)? Where are the leaks on hundreds of Mossad agents operating in Mosul (25)? Where are the leaks on the Mossad bomb-making facility in Kirkuk (26)? Where are the leaks on the Mossad murderers stationed in several villages around the devastated area of Fallujah (27)? Where are the leaks on the depleted-uranium-tipped IEDs of Zionist-owned Zapata Engineering that have massacred thousands in Najaf, Karbala and Tal Afar, just to name a few (28)? Where are the leaks on the Israeli arms dealers supplying weapons to CIA-trained death squads (29)? Where are the leaks on Zionist war criminal Paul Wolfowitz importing Shin Bet torture experts to train the US military (30)? Where are the leaks on Mossad conducting interrogations and torture in Iraq jails, including Abu Ghraib (31)? Where are the leaks that will actually tie the illegal war, which was exclusively designed by Zionists, to Israel? They don’t exist because Wikileaks isn’t concerned with uncovering the truth regarding the real criminals; they’re concerned with leading the public away from the truth to keep them under control. It’s COINTELPRO all over again.

The target of Wikileaks’ first release was the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. The objectives of the operation were to give credibility to war criminal Obama’s illegal drone strikes that have murdered over 1,000 civilians (32), raise the possibility of a future overt occupation, and cover up the meddling of Israel in occupied Afghanistan. It is vital to note that the de-stablization of Pakistan has been a Zionist objective since the declaration of al-Nakbah architect, David Ben-Gurion (33). The target of Wikileaks’ second release was the Islamic Republic of Iran. The objective of this operation was to slander two of the very few entities on earth resisting Israel, Hezbollah and Iran; as well as cover up the Zionist fingerprints all over the mutilation of Iraq. The IAEA has already inadvertently foiled the Zionist plan to attack Iran based on the nuclear premise, confirming that the Iranian nuclear program is peaceful in nature and has nothing to do with weaponization (34). The Zionist hasbara experts needed to try something new; through Wikileaks, the accusations of the Zionist Bush administration against Iran have resurfaced under the guise of ‘whistle-blowing.’ What a sham.

Conclusion

A final note needs to be made about Julian Assange, the man who has been praised as a freedom fighter, a revolutionary and a friend of the oppressed people. In a recent interview, he stated, "I'm constantly annoyed that people are distracted by false conspiracies such as 9/11, when all around we provide evidence of real conspiracies, for war or mass financial fraud (35)." It’s shameful that Assange is annoyed by those seeking truth regarding the reason 1.5 million innocents are dead in occupied Iraq, 1.2 million innocents are dead in occupied Afghanistan, and thousands of more innocent men, women and children are dead in occupied Palestine, Lebanon, Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia. 9/11 is anything but a false conspiracy; there is overwhelming evidence that American and Israeli officials didn’t just have foreknowledge of the event, but planned the attack and carried it out. It was a Mossad-CIA false flag used to protect the Zionist entity from any future military threat and expand the parasitic hegemony of the US and the illegitimate Tel Aviv regime throughout the world via the Zionist-inspired ‘war on terror (36).’ Someone insulting the seekers of 9/11 truth, slandering the righteous movement of Hezbollah, spreading propaganda about Iran which adds to the demonization campaign levied against the Islamic Republic by the Zionist lobby and the Zionist media, and deliberately leaving out Israeli crimes in occupied Afghanistan and Iraq is no freedom fighter; such a person is a liar and a propagandist.

Wikileaks’ most recent ‘leak’ about occupied Iraq was delivered to several mainstream news outlets including Al-Jazeerah, the Zionist New York Times, Der Spiegel of Germany, which has smeared Hezbollah in the past by despicably accusing the Resistance of selling narcotics (37), Zionist-controlled Le Monde of France which has also smeared Hezbollah recently (38) and The Guardian of the UK, in packages, as if it was some sort of gift for a holiday. This isn’t a leak. This isn’t an expose. This is a press release. This is a media spectacle. This is a circus to cover up real crimes. Those interested in seeing a real leak, in addition to real courage, should read the story of Mordechai Vanunu, who blew the whistle on Israel’s nuclear program and has spent the last 26 years in and out of Israel’s inhumane prisons, including 18 years consecutively with 11 of those years in solitary confinement (39).

Iraq was annihilated for the Zionist regime, as was Afghanistan. When discussing the destruction of these nations, and the murder of millions of their people, it is integral to the understanding of the crimes committed to discuss the Israeli role in these crimes. Any person or institution failing to do so is ignorant, a coward or a collaborationist. None of these persons have any place in the movement to restore the occupied lands to the indigenous people and bring their tormentors to justice. By supporting Wikileaks, you are not fighting the occupier. You are not honoring the martyrs. You are not combating imperialism. And you are not striking back at the oppressor. You are supporting Israel and the cover-up of the activities of its criminal network. Wikileaks is Zionist poison. Wake up.

~ The End ~

Sources:

(1) Wikileaks Reports Could Halt Iran’s Nuclear Drive by Yaakov Katz, Jerusalem Post

(2) Wikileaks, Afghanistan and Pakistan by Muhammad Abdullah Gul

(3) Framing Pakistan: How The Pro-Israel Media Enables India’s Surrogate Warfare by Maidhc O Cathhail

(4) Intel Expert Says 9/11 Looks Like A Hollywood Show by Christopher Bollyn

(5) The Spoils Of War: Afghanistan’s Multibillion Dollar Heroin Trade by Michel Chossudovsky

(6) Wikileaks Is Israel, Like We All Didn’t Know by Gordon Duff, Veterans Today

(7) Profile: Unocal by History Commons

(8) The Great Game: The War For Caspian Oil And Gas by Christopher Bollyn

(9) Drugs For Guns: How The Afghan Heroin Trade Is Fueling The Taliban Insurgency by Jerome Starkey, The Independent; Red Mafiya: How The Russian Mob Has Invaded America by Robert Friedman (rip)

(10) Iraq War Documents Shed Light On Civilian Deaths, Prisoner Abuse by David Wood

(11) Iraq War Logs: Private Militarization Run Amok by Pratap Chatterjee, The Guardian

(12) US Shot Down Iranian Drone In Iraq, Wikileaks Confirms by Adam Weinstein

(13) Iraq War Logs Detail Iran’s Aid For Militias by Michael R. Gordon and Andrew W. Lehren, The New York Times

(14) Wikileaks Tip Iran’s Hand In Iraq by Samuel Segev, Winnipeg Free Press

(15) Iraq War Leaks: No US Investigation Of Many Abuses by Al-Masry Al-Youm

(16) Wikileaks Show WMD Hunt Continued In Iraq – With Surprising Results by Noah Shachtman

(17) Iraq Today: Afflicted By Violence, Devastation, Corruption And Desperation by Stephen Lendman

(18) Lawless Arrests, Detentions And Torture In Iraq by Stephen Lendman

(19) Sayyed Nasrallah: Bellemare, UN Protecting False Witnesses by Al-Manar

(20) Ho Hum, More Wikileaks Chickenfeed by Gordon Duff, Veterans Today

(21) Israeli Drones Said Operating Over Iraq And Afghanistan by Yossi Melman, Haaretz

(22) The Zionist Murderers Of Iraq by Jonathan Azaziah

(23) 55 Zionist Companies Working In Iraq Under Assumed Names by Yaqen News Agency, translated by Muhammad Abu Nasr

(24) Israel Hopes To Colonize Parts of Iraq as ‘Greater Israel’ by Wayne Madsen

(25) Facts Vs. Beliefs –Today’s Ancient Warfare by Jeff Gates

(26) Resistance Kills Mossad Agents In Iraq by The Egyptian Gazette

(27) Israel’s Battle In Fallujah by Rashid Khashana, Al-Hayat

(28) Iraq IEDs: Mossad/Zapata Engineering Conspiracy? by Cloak and Dagger; Israeli Made IEDs and US Zapata Engineering made IED Triggers Are Killing US, Canadian And NATO Soldiers by NB Gazette

(29) Israeli Officer Sells Weapons To Terrorists In Iraq by Press TV; CIA Death Squads Operating In Iraq by Henry Michaels

(30) Seymour Hersh And The Missing Zionist-Israeli Connection by James Petras

(31) Mossad Does Interrogations in Iraqi Jails: Human Rights Group by China Radio International English; What Were Mossad Agents With Fraudulent New Zealand Passports Doing In Iraq? by Jerry Mazza

(32) US Drone Strikes Kill 18 In Pakistan by Press TV

(33) Mossad And India Spy Agency Team Up, Target Pakistan by Tariq Saeedi

(34) IAEA Report: Zero Evidence Of Iran Nukes. US Orwellian Corporate Media: Iran Building Nukes? by Carl Herman, The Los Angeles Examiner

(35) Wanted By The CIA: The Man Who Keeps No Secrets by Matthew Bell, The Independent

(36) 9/11: Israel’s Grand Deception by Jonathan Azaziah

(37) Hezbollah Denies Der Spiegel’s ‘Cheap Fabrications’ by Al-Manar

(38) Le Monde: A Group Affiliated With Hezbollah Takes Photos Of The Hague by NOW Lebanon

(39) The Woman From Mossad: The Story Of Mordechai Vanunu And The Israeli Nuclear Program by Peter Hounam.
Source: http://www.maskofzion.com/2010/10/wi...st-poison.html
Reply

titus
12-02-2010, 02:25 AM
So now Wikileaks is part of a government conspiracy?

Is there anything in the world that is not a part of a US conspiracy? Lunacy.
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Beardo
12-02-2010, 02:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
So now Wikileaks is part of a government conspiracy?

Is there anything in the world that is not a part of a US conspiracy? Lunacy.
Can it be considered conspiracy? Cuz there's really nothing to conspire. It's all truth and fact, which is the problem really.
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titus
12-02-2010, 03:12 AM
Can it be considered conspiracy? Cuz there's really nothing to conspire. It's all truth and fact, which is the problem really.
Read Lost Identity's post. He is claiming that Assange and Wikileaks are all a US government operation in order to support Zionism.
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GuestFellow
12-02-2010, 04:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Junon
Also interesting is how the Arab dictatorships have been urging the US to attack Iran nuclear facilities, shows whos' 'side' they are on.
:sl:

I doubt the Arab countries support the US to attack Iran nuclear facilities because to show support. Arab countries like Egypt and Saudi Arabia do not want Iran to gain influence in the region. Iran has been successful in gaining influence in Lebanon especially hezbollah, Syria and Hamas and this troubles the Arab countries. From what I've heard Iran has been causing trouble in south of Iraq and stirring up Shia communities within countries like Bahrain.

The Sunni and Shia differences is probably what motivates the Arab countries to take a tough stance against Iran.

I also doubt Arab countries truly support America, since certain thinktank groups and politicians in America have threatened them for regime change.
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Tilmeez
12-02-2010, 07:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
Read Lost Identity's post. He is claiming that Assange and Wikileaks are all a US government operation in order to support Zionism.
That's is the impression we are getting so far from the most discussed leaks. You see UK, Germany, India, and most of all, Israel is safe from these leaks. Either these are selected documents which were leaked or someone is moderating the issuance of documents and releasing the only documents which are aimed at Muslim countries including KSA, Pakistan, Iran, UAE and Afghanistan in particular.

So far these leaks are, mainly, a threat to Muslim countries and their mutual relations with each other and harming their interest whatsoever.
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GuestFellow
12-02-2010, 07:28 AM
Wikileaks: UK allowed US to use cluster bomb 'loophole'

^ UPDATE!

Wikileaks: Russia branded 'mafia state' in recent cable

^ READ!
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titus
12-02-2010, 07:29 AM
So you think the US decided the best way to create this propaganda against Muslims was to publicly humiliate their own State Department?

Sounds more like paranoia than facts.

Besides there is damaging and embarrassing info in there on non-Muslim countries also. In fact most of the stuff I read when the documents were first revealed did not involve Muslim countries at all.

Not to mention the fact that wikileaks previously has leaked US documents about the war in Afghanistan (that did nothing to help its cause, and in fact hurt it), video footage of the US military killing some reporters in Iraq, and the release of documents about Guantanamo that showed the US government had not been truthful about how they were treating the prisoners there.

Hardly the actions of a US government propaganda tool.
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GuestFellow
12-02-2010, 07:33 AM
I agree with titus on this one.
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Trumble
12-02-2010, 10:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tilmeez
That's is the impression we are getting so far from the most discussed leaks. You see UK, Germany, India, and most of all, Israel is safe from these leaks. Either these are selected documents which were leaked or someone is moderating the issuance of documents and releasing the only documents which are aimed at Muslim countries including KSA, Pakistan, Iran, UAE and Afghanistan in particular.
I think it's rather simpler than that. Although we are getting new 'revelations' virtually every day they were all released by Wikileaks at the same time.. but there are a quarter of a million messages and that will take even the most enthusiastic news team a while to sift through. There was always more embarrassment likely to be found in relation to those countries, not to mention valid concerns shared by others. I would hardly call the UK 'sheltered'; the leak regarding David Cameron was particularly embarassing. Of all the leaks I think the one with the most significant long term impact is actually that regarding China and North Korea. Whether that is good or bad remains to be seen.
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Lynx
12-03-2010, 07:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rashad
WikiLeaks is a security threat. Govt do things in secrecy with good reason. This'll be bad for US. :(
my thoughts exactly
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Ummu Sufyaan
12-03-2010, 09:24 AM
why hasnt anyone (governments) stopped any possible downloading/spreading of the document such as blocking the site or something? why hasnt anyone been charged over this?

that previous wikileaks fiasco should have rang alarm bells.
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Güven
12-03-2010, 02:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
why hasnt anyone (governments) stopped any possible downloading/spreading of the document such as blocking the site or something? why hasnt anyone been charged over this?
They are trying (website is down, only access is through IP-adres), its not easy when their opponents are geniuses.
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GuestFellow
12-03-2010, 02:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx
my thoughts exactly
Then your very naive.
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Dagless
12-03-2010, 04:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Güven
They are trying (website is down, only access is through IP-adres), its not easy when their opponents are geniuses.
That happened quick! Their main site is available through ip but I can't find the torrent file which was on cablegate.wikileaks.org :(
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Muslim Woman
12-04-2010, 05:36 PM
Salaam

Is there any comment from Saudi Govt. about wiki info ? I hope , it's not true that King Abdullah urged US President to attack Iran.
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سيف الله
12-06-2010, 11:26 AM
Salaam

Im a bit busy (again :( ) however found this video, very informative and well worth taking time to watch.

WikiLeaks Cables Reveal 'Profound Hatred for Democracy' by U.S. Govt Officials

Part 1



Part 2



Part 3

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GuestFellow
12-06-2010, 12:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam

Is there any comment from Saudi Govt. about wiki info ? I hope , it's not true that King Abdullah urged US President to attack Iran.
Salaam,

It is a possibility. Saudi Arabia does not want Iran to gain influence in the Middle East, as it did in Lebanon, Syria and Hamas. From what I have heard, Iran has been stirring up Shia communities in south of Iraq and in countries like Bahrain. Saudi Arabia is Sunni while Iran is Shia, so I would not be surprise if Saudi Arabia supports an attack on Iran to stop it gaining influence.
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Cabdullahi
12-06-2010, 12:53 PM
wikileaks is a means for the elite to release documents to shape politics

if wikileaks was to be an authentic whistle-blowing website then it would have contained or released something about 9/11 and Americas hand in cultivating terrorists to create false flag operations, but then why would such detrimental info be leaked that would shatter the world when the shady individuals in question are the ones leaking.
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Dagless
12-06-2010, 01:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullahii
wikileaks is a means for the elite to release documents to shape politics

if wikileaks was to be an authentic whistle-blowing website then it would have contained or released something about 9/11 and Americas hand in cultivating terrorists to create false flag operations, but then why would such detrimental info be leaked that would shatter the world when the shady individuals in question are the ones leaking.
It can only leak what it is given. I find it hard to believe the elite would want the documents leaked since a lot of them so far are very detrimental to the West. Not to mention the guy who leaked some of them is in jail.

I think that they may already have some 9/11 stuff, or maybe things even bigger than 9/11 because there is an encrypted insurance file about. If anything happens to Assange, then the key will be released.
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جوري
12-06-2010, 03:14 PM
pls. those wikileaks are nothing but the latest game in a dirty political agenda.. it is funny that what is leaked is nothing more than all the crap they've been parroting all along about Iran, the gulf etc. and this new guy oh the new usama wait let's see if they are going to catch this public enemy number one now..
I can't even call it clever or well contrived.. just a pathetic game of desperate politicians!

good actors.. fear does motivate the masses!
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GuestFellow
12-06-2010, 03:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless
It can only leak what it is given. I find it hard to believe the elite would want the documents leaked since a lot of them so far are very detrimental to the West.
Salaam,

Western countries reputation will be damaged and they might lose public support. The latter I suppose it what they wish to avoid.
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CosmicPathos
12-06-2010, 04:02 PM
Most of the stuff from the leaks is not going to change the opinion of sheep that are found in the non-Muslim countries. They will still love their country, their politicians etc and remain oblivious. The one hated will be replaced by another charm-obama in next elections, the game is the same ...
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Trumble
12-07-2010, 09:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
I can't even call it clever or well contrived.. just a pathetic game of desperate politicians!
Get real... it's hardly a 'pathetic game' (in that sense, anyway) to release lists of the most sensitive security locations, and of NATO plans to defend Eastern European countries from Russia at a time when the US administration is desperately trying to repair ties with Moscow. Sure, the Russians would probably have already known but while it wasn't public they could just quietly ignore it.

The big problem with Wikileaks is that the leaks are only from one source, the US and - frankly - they haven't come out as bad as many were really hoping to see. Yet, anyway. But don't kid yourselves, EVERY country has it's dirty laundry and the only way Wikileaks will ever contribute to 'peace' is if it publishes similar revelations in regard of Russia, China, India, Iran, etc, etc. Let's see EVERYBODY'S little and no so little embarassments and dirty secrets. But of course, that will never happen.. as Dagless said they can only publish what is leaked to them.
Reply

Muslim Woman
12-07-2010, 02:24 PM
Salaam


:sl:

Julian Assange, editor in chief of WikiLeaks, was arrested Tuesday morning in London on rape charges from Sweden, adding a new wrinkle to the ongoing furor over WikiLeaks' controversial release of hundreds of thousands of US diplomatic cables.
The British Press Association reports that Mr. Assange is expected to appear in court Tuesday after being arrested by Scotland Yard's extradition unit at 9:30 a.m., according to a Metropolitan Police spokesman. The spokesman said that Assange voluntarily came to the London police station, where he was arrested on a European Arrest Warrant from Swedish authorities for "one count of unlawful coercion, two counts of sexual molestation and one count of rape, all alleged to have been committed in August 2010." The Press Association noted that the Metropolitan Police received an arrest warrant last month on the same charges, but the warrant was invalid because it was not properly filled out.
Sky News reports that Assange will probably be released on bail of between £100,000 and £200,000 (between $150,000 and $320,000), though it seems unlikely that Assange would attempt to flee, as he denies all the charges against him.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terro...n-rape-charges
Reply

جوري
12-07-2010, 03:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
Get real... it's hardly a 'pathetic game'

what else is it if not a pathetic political game? I marvel at what little thought folks at large give to these contrived and planned war games to play with their lives!
Reply

أحمد
12-07-2010, 04:00 PM
:sl:

Has wikileaks "shed any light" on past events, including those irrelevant to the topic of "Axis of evil"?

:wa:
Reply

Lynx
12-07-2010, 10:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
Then your very naive.
'cause you know , everyone should be honest all the time about everything. esp those politicians ! if they don't like something about a country they should just stand up and say so ! do i sound less naive now?
Reply

GuestFellow
12-07-2010, 10:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx
'cause you know , everyone should be honest all the time about everything. esp those politicians ! if they don't like something about a country they should just stand up and say so ! do i sound less naive now?
I still think your naive.
Reply

Lynx
12-07-2010, 10:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
I still think your naive.
but why?
don't tell me you subscribe to the unethical view that people should keep secrets sometimes if they feel they have a good reason to or if there is no reason to share the otherwise secret information? that makes absolutely no sense.
Reply

GuestFellow
12-07-2010, 10:56 PM
^ I'm just winding you up! XD

Yes, I know, inappropriate for this section.
Reply

Lynx
12-08-2010, 05:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
^ I'm just winding you up! XD

Yes, I know, inappropriate for this section.
it's okay ! i am playing along with sarcasm !
Reply

سيف الله
12-08-2010, 07:07 PM
Salaam

Ok final video that gives a different view to the villification of wikileaks by certain sections of the mainstream media. Promise this will be lat video Ill post on this topic :P

Ill write more about it next week, this whole wikileaks cable episode has really caused a storm :omg:

Reply

Muslim Woman
12-09-2010, 12:30 AM
Salaam

got this mail today:

Stop the crackdown

The massive campaign of intimidation against WikiLeaks is sending a chill through free press advocates everywhere.

Legal experts say WikiLeaks has likely broken no laws. Yet top US politicians have called it a terrorist group and commentators have urged assassination of its staff. The organization has come under massive government and corporate attack, but WikiLeaks is only publishing information provided by a whistleblower. And it has partnered with the world's leading newspapers (NYT, Guardian, Spiegel etc) to carefully vet the information it publishes.

The massive extra-judicial intimidation of WikiLeaks is an attack on democracy. We urgently need a public outcry for freedom of the press and expression. Sign the petition to stop the crackdown and forward this email to everyone -- let's get to 1 million voices and take out full page ads in US newspapers this week!

http://www.avaaz.org/en/wikileaks_petition/?vl
Reply

Dagless
12-09-2010, 12:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam

got this mail today:

Stop the crackdown

The massive campaign of intimidation against WikiLeaks is sending a chill through free press advocates everywhere.

Legal experts say WikiLeaks has likely broken no laws. Yet top US politicians have called it a terrorist group and commentators have urged assassination of its staff. The organization has come under massive government and corporate attack, but WikiLeaks is only publishing information provided by a whistleblower. And it has partnered with the world's leading newspapers (NYT, Guardian, Spiegel etc) to carefully vet the information it publishes.

The massive extra-judicial intimidation of WikiLeaks is an attack on democracy. We urgently need a public outcry for freedom of the press and expression. Sign the petition to stop the crackdown and forward this email to everyone -- let's get to 1 million voices and take out full page ads in US newspapers this week!

http://www.avaaz.org/en/wikileaks_petition/?vl
It's a good message to spread but I don't think governments take much notice of online petitions. Another way would be to urge people to seed the information on there. That would delivery a bigger message than any online petition.
Reply

جوري
12-09-2010, 01:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
assassination of its staff
assassination ey? fascinating indeed...
Reply

سيف الله
12-15-2010, 09:22 PM
Salaam

Should be of interest

Bolivian President Evo Morales at Cancún Climate Summit: WikiLeaks Cables Reveal "Diplomacy of Empire"


AMY GOODMAN:

I’m Amy Goodman from Democracy Now! in the United States. A State Department cable was recently leaked by WikiLeaks that quotes a top White House official saying that countries like Bolivia and Ecuador and others need to be neutralized, co-opted or marginalized. I wanted to get your comment on this, on the fact that the U.S. cut off funding for Bolivia after you refused to sign the Copenhagen Accord, and where you think the Cancún accord is going and needs to go.

PRESIDENT EVO MORALES:

[translated] Well, the topic of WikiLeak, the WikiLeak documents, WikiLeaks, we realize how espionage from the U.S. government takes place, before Obama and after Obama. Happily, we are not sorry, because there is a stop to this type of imposition—espionage, threats, intimidation—trying to break up the economies and the policies and also our identities. Happily and timely, we announce this constantly. I am happy to have started to provide dignity to the people of Bolivia, men and women.

In the fourth conference of the defense minister of America, where the Secretary of Defense of the U.S. was present in Santa Cruz last month, I decided two things. It’s Evo’s knee or the dignity of the people. I prefer the dignity of the people than Evo’s knee, to tell you the truth. And after that comes this information from WikiLeaks confirming everything that we denounced before that, that’s the diplomacy of the empire. They try to shut down, to persuade, by using some presidents from Latin America. I am certain that they have an intention, and their intention is to generate lack of trust—Evo with Cristina, Evo with Chávez, or Evo with Correa. At this time, we are no longer children, and we are not small. That will not generate any lack of trust. That will not generate any confrontation between presidents. I respect and admire Cristina, the president of Argentina, as well as our colleague Chávez, Correa, Lula.

They said that they had—he had a tumor on the nose because he had a problem in the nose, but not a tumor. I reached the conclusion that the intelligence agents from the U.S. lack intelligence. And they speak foolishness that I have a tumor. They want to cause damage. They won’t be able to do it. But these type of operations will continue, of course, although we have started to provide dignity to the people of Bolivia, men and women, no matter the fact that we are a country that is labeled as underdeveloped or developing, well above whatever our economic, cultural situation is. Above all of that, there’s our dignity.

And I’m not sorry for having expelled the U.S. ambassador at the time when we expelled the U.S. ambassador. Since then, there’s no conspiracy against democracy. There’s no more attempts of coup d’état. What our journalist friends have to know is that wherever the U.S. government has monopolic interests through their ambassadors, there’s no guarantee neither of democracy, there’s no guarantee for development, there’s no guarantee of the integration of peoples. Whether Obama accepts it or not, with the U.S., with the American empire, we are three to one, if we talk about democracy. We must recognize, with the coup d’état in Honduras, Obama beat us. But the empire has lost in Venezuela, in Bolivia and in Ecuador with their attempted coups d’état. That the Latin American people is beating the empire three to one goals, that’s good. They will always—we’ll always have one goal against us, but that’s the U.S.

And then WikiLeak is mentioned [inaudible]. They can do it; it’s their right. If we were not in government, we would also be organized to permanently fight against capitalism, neoliberalism, against colonialism. That’s our right that we have. But they are not even able to control their intelligence, their forms of control or their forms of espionage. I believe that even in that situation, the U.S. is decadent.

Rest here

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/12/...s_on_wikileaks
Reply

ya.azad
12-16-2010, 01:45 AM
Well, i think it's safe to say WikiLeaks isn't going anywhere as:
"Wikileaks is currently mirrored on 2194 sites (updated 2010-12-15 15:56 GMT)"

I highly doubt WikiLeaks was planned by any western government, or any government at all. Whoever said that "if it was real there would be information about 9/11 being an inside job" or w/e: No, there wouldn't be. The US Government, while being highly corrupt and at times downright messed up, would NOT have done something to that scale. The US is more into retaliation as opposed to instigation. The retaliation is often disproportionate, but US Govt. instigation is never done to such as scale. Also, if it were ever legitimately found out (which it would be, there's no way it could stay secret) that the US DID do 9/11, many heads would be rolling, including Mr Bush's. He doesn't want that, trust me.
Reply

Ramadhan
12-16-2010, 07:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ya.azad
The US Government, while being highly corrupt and at times downright messed up, would NOT have done something to that scale. The US is more into retaliation as opposed to instigation.
So not true.
Case in point: Iraq
Reply

ya.azad
12-16-2010, 04:09 PM
true, actually.
Iraq was viewed as and presented in the US as retaliation, however off that may be.
Reply

أحمد
12-16-2010, 04:27 PM
:sl:

I find many things strange about these wars, and I'm not the only one that does. I won't bother going into that detail, but you may find this interesting.

The female infant buried in the sand,
On Qiyamah, in front of Allah will she stand,
Seeking the reason for her premature end,
A custom the Pagan Arabs cared not to amend,
A mercy for mankind, the Prophet then arrived
Ending their murder, their infanticide,
But that was the story of a bygone era,
I write to tell you a place much nearer,
Where half a million children have met the same fate,
Embargoed and traumatised by the United States,
I speak of Iraq, crushed and defeated,
A country from where all mercy has retreated,
Who's children lie buried deep under the sand,
Of sorrow and anguish we'd never understand,
For what reason, what crime, what sin did they die?
The Iraqi children who were born to cry,
A genocide of apocalyptic proportions,
Hidden and silenced by media distortions,
The greatest bombardment in the history of war,
Cluster bombs, napalm - all this, what for?
Stabilisation of the Saudi economy,
'Peace' with Israel, Palestinian autonomy,
All envisioned in the 'new world order'
New age imperialism without any borders,
And who pays the price for this new world order?
The victims of course, of this one sided slaughter,
The people of Iraq, both young and old,
Who's destiny the Muslims have miserably sold,
Whose hopes and dreams have withered and perished,
For the everyday freedoms which you and I cherish,
The freedom to live, the freedom to survive,
Under such sanctions it's hard to stay alive,
But they won't get their freedom, until we will get ours,
The Muslim nations, from the Imperialist powers,
And until such a time what will you do?
Go back to sleep like so many do?
So the earth cries out, and the heavens do weep,
As Iraq dies silently, the world is asleep.
I first came across this, just a few years "before the Iraq war started", and was the poem which I wrote my English essay on. The teacher gave me an extra two weeks, and asked me to choose a different poem, as this poem had lies about a war in Iraq. "Everyone" has access to a TV or newspapers, yet no one's heard of such a war, therefore the basis of the poem is false.

I did as I was told, passed, and moved on.

Guess what? A few years later, we did hear and read about an "Iraq war". This doesn't mean you should believe anything you come across, but it does mean that you can at least keep an open mind. There's a possibility that a piece of information isn't completely false, just because you disagree with it.

:wa:
Reply

sabr*
12-16-2010, 09:29 PM
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Surah an Nisa 4:135

135. O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even though it be against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, be he rich or poor, Allah is a Better Protector to both (than you). So follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you may avoid justice, and if you distort your witness or refuse to give it, verily, Allah is Ever Well-Acquainted with what you do.
(Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan translation)

Many of the cables were submitted by diplomats attempting to please their superiors or providing insight on opinions on foriegn heads of state.

Usually the hatred of another blinds peoples assessment of information and facts.

The entries on the cables regarding the homosexuality and curruption of heads of states families in the Middle East will never be addressed or discussed. Even though facts have substantiated many of those entries.

Supporting curruption and illicit actions is wrong no matter the source.
Reply

Ramadhan
12-17-2010, 02:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ya.azad
true, actually.
Iraq was viewed as and presented in the US as retaliation, however off that may be.
well, if you consider and can make a case that Iraq invasion was a retaliation, then you can make a case also for *every* single invasion since the beginning of man that they are all just "retaliation" and none "instigation".
Reply

ChargerCarl
12-17-2010, 08:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
So not true.
Case in point: Iraq
Why would the U.S. government go through huge length's to pull of a massive, logistically impossible terror attack to justify a war that had no connection to it?

That makes no sense.
Reply

sabr*
12-17-2010, 08:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
Why would the U.S. government go through huge length's to pull of a massive, logistically impossible terror attack to justify a war that had no connection to it?
format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl

That makes no sense.
Peace be to you:

ChargerCarl (The San Diego Chargers need to win out to make the playoffs):

It makes perfect sense if someone believes in conspiracy theories.


http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...-theorist.html



1 + 3= 20 if you minus 16 before the 1 +3 etc, etc, etc.
Reply

ChargerCarl
12-17-2010, 08:47 PM
...what the?

bot spam?
Reply

GuestFellow
12-17-2010, 11:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ya.azad
Well, i think it's safe to say WikiLeaks isn't going anywhere as:
"Wikileaks is currently mirrored on 2194 sites (updated 2010-12-15 15:56 GMT)"

I highly doubt WikiLeaks was planned by any western government, or any government at all. Whoever said that "if it was real there would be information about 9/11 being an inside job" or w/e: No, there wouldn't be. The US Government, while being highly corrupt and at times downright messed up, would NOT have done something to that scale. The US is more into retaliation as opposed to instigation. The retaliation is often disproportionate, but US Govt. instigation is never done to such as scale. Also, if it were ever legitimately found out (which it would be, there's no way it could stay secret) that the US DID do 9/11, many heads would be rolling, including Mr Bush's. He doesn't want that, trust me.
:sl:

I too doubt that the US planned 9/11, however I do think the US had some knowledge that there was a threat. I think some members of the Bush Administration were aware that there was an imminent threat.

format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
Why would the U.S. government go through huge length's to pull of a massive, logistically impossible terror attack to justify a war that had no connection to it?

That makes no sense.
Yes, there are other ways to start wars. However, I do think the US used 9/11 to their advantage to advance their own interests.
Reply

ChargerCarl
12-18-2010, 04:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
:sl:

I too doubt that the US planned 9/11, however I do think the US had some knowledge that there was a threat. I think some members of the Bush Administration were aware that there was an imminent threat.
The U.S. knew they were being targeted, but they had no idea when/how.
Reply

Ramadhan
12-18-2010, 08:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
Why would the U.S. government go through huge length's to pull of a massive, logistically impossible terror attack to justify a war that had no connection to it?

That makes no sense.

Connected to what?
9/11?
Are we living on the same planet?

It all makes sense when you realise:
1. Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world after Saudi
2. Iraq super strategically located in the center of middle east, AND located between USA's love child country (Israel) and the country it perceives as the biggest threat to its love child (Iran).
3. There have been recent investigative, incisive articles (even published in western mainstream media, such as the Vanity Fair) written which show that Ira invasion had already been planned even BEFORE 9/11.
Reply

Ramadhan
12-18-2010, 08:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
The U.S. knew they were being targeted, but they had no idea when/how.

I think Bush junior, Cheney and Rumsfeld also said the same thing.
Reply

Dagless
12-18-2010, 01:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
The U.S. knew they were being targeted, but they had no idea when/how.
Wasn't it found that the FBI knew planes would be used to attack targets in the US more than a year before 9/11? That doesn't sound like they had no idea.
Reply

GuestFellow
12-18-2010, 05:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless
Wasn't it found the the FBI knew planes would be used to attack targets in the US more than a year before 9/11? That doesn't sound like they had no idea.
:sl:

Do you mean this?

Bin Laden Determined To Strike in US
Reply

ChargerCarl
12-19-2010, 03:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
Connected to what?
9/11?
Are we living on the same planet?

It all makes sense when you realise:
1. Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world after Saudi
2. Iraq super strategically located in the center of middle east, AND located between USA's love child country (Israel) and the country it perceives as the biggest threat to its love child (Iran).
3. There have been recent investigative, incisive articles (even published in western mainstream media, such as the Vanity Fair) written which show that Ira invasion had already been planned even BEFORE 9/11.
My point was that there was no direct connection between Iraq and 9/11, as stated so in the commission reports.

I don't understand how you were able to misconstrue that.

And yes, Iran was on the radar long before 9/11. I don't see what so interesting about that though.
Reply

Ramadhan
12-19-2010, 04:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
My point was that there was no direct connection between Iraq and 9/11, as stated so in the commission reports
no direct connection?

then why did you say:

Why would the U.S. government go through huge length's to pull of a massive, logistically impossible terror attack to justify a war that had no connection to it
what do you mean by that?

format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
I don't understand how you were able to misconstrue that.
And yes, Iran was on the radar long before 9/11. I don't see what so interesting about that though.
I wrote "Ira", missing the "q" letter.
I don't understand how you were able to misconstrue it was "iran".
Anyone who read it would certainly think it was iraq, as iraq was invaded, and iran is not (or has not).
Reply

ChargerCarl
12-19-2010, 04:46 AM
I don't understand what you're confused about. There was no connection between 9/11 and Iraq. So using it as a motive to argue that 9/11 was an inside job makes zero sense.
Reply

Ramadhan
12-19-2010, 05:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
I don't understand what you're confused about. There was no connection between 9/11 and Iraq. So using it as a motive to argue that 9/11 was an inside job makes zero sense.
I agree.
I was surprised that you made connection between Iraq and 9/11.
and why do you think 9/11 was an inside job?
I'm intrigued.
Reply

ChargerCarl
12-19-2010, 05:15 AM
I don't. It was logistically impossible for 9/11 to be an "inside job"
Reply

Ramadhan
12-19-2010, 06:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
I don't. It was logistically impossible for 9/11 to be an "inside job"
Do you think iraq invasion a retaliation?
Reply

ChargerCarl
12-19-2010, 07:37 AM
No, I see the Iraq invasion as a move to project American influence and power into a volatile and hostile region that is progressing further and further down the nuclear road.
Reply

Ramadhan
12-19-2010, 07:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
No, I see the Iraq invasion as a move to project American influence and power into a volatile and hostile region that is progressing further and further down the nuclear road.
Is that all?

How.... interesting

;)
Reply

Ummu Sufyaan
12-19-2010, 09:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
I don't understand what you're confused about. There was no connection between 9/11 and Iraq. So using it as a motive to argue that 9/11 was an inside job makes zero sense.
would it be easier if it were spelt out for you?

9/11 happens, America goes to war with Iraq.

comprehende?
Reply

Asiyah3
12-19-2010, 10:43 AM
I love Wikileaks.

But hey, isn't it truly interesting how the US used to cry about China's net sensors? And now the US is censoring Wikileaks and threatening to murder an innocent man to shut him up?

Apparently freedom of speech is there when the US government approves it.
Reply

ChargerCarl
12-19-2010, 10:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
would it be easier if it were spelt out for you?

9/11 happens, America goes to war with Iraq.

comprehende?
No not really. The commission report states that there is no direct connection.
Reply

ChargerCarl
12-19-2010, 10:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Runaway
I love Wikileaks.

But hey, isn't it truly interesting how the US used to cry about China's net sensors? And now the US is censoring Wikileaks and threatening to murder an innocent man to shut him up?

Apparently freedom of speech is there when the US government approves it.
1. How is the U.S. censoring wikileaks? All of the censorship I have read about has been carried out by private institutions.

2. Of course freedom of speech only extends as far as the government allows it. I don't know what made you think otherwise.
Reply

GuestFellow
12-19-2010, 12:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
Is that all?

How.... interesting

;)
:sl:

Yes, very interesting. I've heard a neoconservative say that.
Reply

Asiyah3
12-19-2010, 05:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
1. How is the U.S. censoring wikileaks? All of the censorship I have read about has been carried out by private institutions.
Air Force Blocks Sites That Posted Secret Cables

2. Of course freedom of speech only extends as far as the government allows it. I don't know what made you think otherwise.
This is how human rights and democracy works then. Awesome.
Reply

Dagless
12-19-2010, 05:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
I don't understand what you're confused about. There was no connection between 9/11 and Iraq. So using it as a motive to argue that 9/11 was an inside job makes zero sense.
It doesn't sound like you followed the war at all. The whole basis of the pre-emptive strike on Iraq was 9/11. Bush constantly went on about how in order to avoid another 9/11 they had to attack (at that time weapons of mass destruction was being used as the reason, this was later changed). The Bush Doctrine? None of this would have been possible without 9/11.

format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
1. How is the U.S. censoring wikileaks? All of the censorship I have read about has been carried out by private institutions.
Amazon said they stopped hosting wikileaks after pressure from Senator Joe Lieberman (he chairs the Senate Committee on Homeland Security). Osama Bedier (a Vice President in Paypal) said that the decision to suspend the wikileaks paypal account was influenced by the State Department.

format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
2. Of course freedom of speech only extends as far as the government allows it. I don't know what made you think otherwise.
Universal Declaration of Human Rights

"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
"
Reply

ChargerCarl
12-19-2010, 05:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Runaway
How is that censorship? That is no different than an employer disallowing someone to use facebook while at work. Those computers are government property.


This is how human rights and democracy works then. Awesome.
Its governments role to protect and provide a society to ensure optimal and efficient market exchanges through regulation.
Reply

Asiyah3
12-19-2010, 09:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
How is that censorship?
(Let's say) I have some ice cream at home and I called some guests over. Now I can either eat all the ice cream (block the sites in question completely) or hide the tasty parts of it and serve them the rest (censor).

Alright, let's change it to blocking sites. However, which of the above would be worse? To not give them anything at all (leave them hungry (>heedless)) or give them something but less tasty.

That is no different than an employer disallowing someone to use facebook while at work. Those computers are government property.
It is different. For example (just an example) If the previous employees in that workplace turned out to be murderers or they were somehow mistreated, the employer has no right to hide the magazines (or Facebook) which would inform the employees of this.

Its governments role to protect and provide a society to ensure optimal and efficient market exchanges through regulation.
Huh? By calling for the murder of an innocent man (or anyone else who dares to open his mouth) and denying them their basic human rights?
Reply

Lynx
12-19-2010, 11:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless
Universal Declaration of Human Rights

"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
"
Harm principle. This is common knowledge and it doesn't mean you don't have freedom of speech.
Reply

Dagless
12-20-2010, 12:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx
Harm principle. This is common knowledge and it doesn't mean you don't have freedom of speech.
Since when is he harming anyone?
I also didn't say he doesn't have freedom of speech. I was responding to a comment (which I did actually quote).

edit: btw still reading "on liberty" I see. I saw another one of your posts referring to things in that book too.
Reply

ChargerCarl
12-20-2010, 03:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Runaway
It is different. For example (just an example) If the previous employees in that workplace turned out to be murderers or they were somehow mistreated, the employer has no right to hide the magazines (or Facebook) which would inform the employees of this.
No, it isn't. Those computers are government property. Unless you can somehow provide evidence that they are not you have no argument.
Reply

ChargerCarl
12-20-2010, 03:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless
Since when is he harming anyone?
I also didn't say he doesn't have freedom of speech. I was responding to a comment (which I did actually quote)
Releasing CLASSIFIED documents containing sensitive information of US humint operations and informants and disrupting international diplomacy and nuclear non-proliferation.
Reply

Dagless
12-20-2010, 04:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
Releasing CLASSIFIED documents containing sensitive information of US humint operations and informants and disrupting international diplomacy and nuclear non-proliferation.
Wait, you're saying uncovering wrongdoing is a bad thing? Governments are speaking for the people; we should know the bad things they do in our name. No lives have been lost due to the leaks, can you say the same about the wars?
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ChargerCarl
12-20-2010, 05:28 AM
Releasing diplomatic cables has no public value.
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Ummu Sufyaan
12-20-2010, 05:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
No not really. The commission report states that there is no direct connection.
be a victim of your own ignorance then.
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ChargerCarl
12-20-2010, 05:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
be a victim of your own ignorance then.
What you're really saying is this: "I have no response or counter to the official reports"
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Ummu Sufyaan
12-20-2010, 05:40 AM
no, that's your assumption.
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ChargerCarl
12-20-2010, 05:42 AM
Feel free to contribute then.
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Dagless
12-20-2010, 06:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
Releasing diplomatic cables has no public value.
I wouldn't call catching the government breaking the law to be of no public value.

format_quote Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
no, that's your assumption.
Don't worry, he hasn't answered any of my previous responses either.
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ChargerCarl
12-20-2010, 06:12 AM
Diplomatic cables are just messages between diplomats. In order to further the goal of nuclear-non proliferation diplomats need to be able to communicate to each other in confidence.

What does this have to do with catching the governments "breaking the law?" The previous release, maybe, but the current release has no public value. I don't know about you, but I think easy dialogue between states is a positive thing.
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Asiyah3
12-20-2010, 10:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
No, it isn't. Those computers are government property. Unless you can somehow provide evidence that they are not you have no argument.
In your opinion from the example I provided, the employees shouldn't be allowed to know that the previous employees who worked there turned out to be murderers or that they were mistreated (because the computer is the property of the company)?

I don't have a problem with whatever they do with their computers, but I think everyone including government employees should know the truth.
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Trumble
12-20-2010, 12:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Runaway
I don't have a problem with whatever they do with their computers, but I think everyone including government employees should know the truth.
If we stick to purely diplomatic matters, ChargerCarl is right. 'The truth' yes, in terms of events, but in terms of confidential communication between diplomats, no. You have to have a degree of secrecy during negotiations otherwise the whole process just can't function, and that isn't to anybody's benefit.
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سيف الله
01-10-2011, 02:45 PM
Salaam

More news from the wikileaks saga. The Americans are now demanding Twitter account details from those who support wikileaks.


Icelandic MP fights US demand for her Twitter account details

Birgitta Jonsdottir brands efforts by US justice department to access her private information 'completely unacceptable'


A member of parliament in Iceland who is also a former WikiLeaks volunteer says the US justice department has ordered Twitter to hand over her private messages.

Birgitta Jonsdottir, an MP for the Movement in Iceland, said last night on Twitter that the "USA government wants to know about all my tweets and more since november 1st 2009. Do they realize I am a member of parliament in Iceland?"

She said she was starting a legal fight to stop the US getting hold of her messages, after being told by Twitter that a subpoena had been issued. She wrote: "department of justice are requesting twitter to provide the info – I got 10 days to stop it via legal process before twitter hands it over."

She said the justice department was "just sending a message and of course they are asking for a lot more than just my tweets."

Jonsdottir said she was demanding a meeting with the US ambassador to Iceland. "The justice department has gone completely over the top." She added that the US authorities had requested personal information from Twitter as well as her private messages and that she was now assessing her legal position.

"It's not just about my information. It's a warning for anyone who had anything to do with WikiLeaks. It is completely unacceptable for the US justice department to flex its muscles like this. I am lucky, I'm a representative in parliament. But what of other people? It's my duty to do whatever I can to stop this abuse."

Twitter would not comment on the case. In a statement, the company said: "We're not going to comment on specific requests, but, to help users protect their rights, it's our policy to notify users about law enforcement and governmental requests for their information, unless we are prevented by law from doing so."

Most of Twitter's messages are public, but users can also send private messages on the service.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...ges?intcmp=239
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سيف الله
04-11-2011, 10:05 AM
Salaam

Bradley Manning: top US legal scholars voice outrage at 'torture'

Obama professor among 250 experts who have signed letter condemning humiliation of alleged WikiLeaks source




More than 250 of America's most eminent legal scholars have signed a letter protesting against the treatment in military prison of the alleged WikiLeaks source Bradley Manning, contesting that his "degrading and inhumane conditions" are illegal, unconstitutional and could even amount to torture.

The list of signatories includes Laurence Tribe, a Harvard professor who is considered to be America's foremost liberal authority on constitutional law. He taught constitutional law to Barack Obama and was a key backer of his 2008 presidential campaign. Tribe joined the Obama administration last year as a legal adviser in the justice department, a post he held until three months ago.

He told the Guardian he signed the letter because Manning appeared to have been treated in a way that "is not only shameful but unconstitutional" as he awaits court martial in Quantico marine base in Virginia. The US soldier has been held in the military brig since last July, charged with multiple counts relating to the leaking of thousands of embassy cables and other secret documents to the WikiLeaks website. Under the terms of his detention, he is kept in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day, checked every five minutes under a so-called "prevention of injury order" and stripped naked at night apart from a smock.

Tribe said the treatment was objectionable "in the way it violates his person and his liberty without due process of law and in the way it administers cruel and unusual punishment of a sort that cannot be constitutionally inflicted even upon someone convicted of terrible offences, not to mention someone merely accused of such offences".

The harsh restrictions have been denounced by a raft of human rights groups, including Amnesty International, and are being investigated by the United Nations' rapporteur on torture. Tribe is the second senior figure with links to the Obama administration to break ranks over Manning. Last month, PJ Crowley resigned as state department spokesman after deriding the Pentagon's handling of Manning as "ridiculous and counterproductive and stupid". The intervention of Tribe and hundreds of other legal scholars is a huge embarrassment to Obama, who was a professor of constitutional law in Chicago. Obama made respect for the rule of law a cornerstone of his administration, promising when he first entered the White House in 2009 to end the excesses of the Bush administration's war on terrorism.

As commander in chief, Obama is ultimately responsible for Manning's treatment at the hands of his military jailers. In his only comments on the matter so far, Obama has insisted that the way the soldier was being detained was "appropriate and meets our basic standards". The protest letter, published in the New York Review of Books, was written by two distinguished law professors, Bruce Ackerman of Yale and Yochai Benkler of Harvard. They claim Manning's reported treatment is a violation of the US constitution, specifically the eighth amendment forbidding cruel and unusual punishment and the fifth amendment that prevents punishment without trial.

In a stinging rebuke to Obama, they say "he was once a professor of constitutional law, and entered the national stage as an eloquent moral leader. The question now, however, is whether his conduct as commander in chief meets fundamental standards of decency". Benkler told the Guardian: "It is incumbent on us as citizens and professors of law to say that enough is enough. We cannot allow ourselves to behave in this way if we want America to remain a society dedicated to human dignity and process of law."

He said Manning's conditions were being used "as a warning to future whistleblowers" and added: " I find it tragic that it is Obama's administration that is pursuing whistleblowers and imposing this kind of treatment."

Ackerman pointed out that under the Pentagon's own rule book, the Uniform Code of Military Justice, Manning's jailers could be liable to prosecution for abusing him. Article 93 of the code says "any person who is guilty of cruelty toward any person subject to his orders shall be punished". The list of professors who have signed the protest letter includes leading figures from all the top US law schools, as well as prominent names from other academic fields. Among them are Bill Clinton's former labour secretary Robert Reich, President Theodore Roosevelt's great-great-grandson Kermit Roosevelt, the former president of the American Civil Liberties Union Norman Dorsen and the novelist Kwame Anthony Appiah.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...cholars-letter
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سيف الله
04-25-2011, 10:03 AM
Salaam

Gitmo files have been released



In its latest release of classified US documents, WikiLeaks is shining the light of truth on a notorious icon of the Bush administration's "War on Terror" -- the prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, which opened on January 11, 2002, and remains open under President Obama, despite his promise to close the much-criticized facility within a year of taking office.

In thousands of pages of documents dating from 2002 to 2008 and never seen before by members of the public or the media, the cases of the majority of the prisoners held at Guantánamo -- 758 out of 779 in total -- are described in detail in memoranda from JTF-GTMO, the Joint Task Force at Guantánamo Bay, to US Southern Command in Miami, Florida.

These memoranda, which contain JTF-GTMO's recommendations about whether the prisoners in question should continue to be held, or should be released (transferred to their home governments, or to other governments) contain a wealth of important and previously undisclosed information, including health assessments, for example, and, in the cases of the majority of the 171 prisoners who are still held, photos (mostly for the first time ever).

They also include information on the first 201 prisoners released from the prison, between 2002 and 2004, which, unlike information on the rest of the prisoners (summaries of evidence and tribunal transcripts, released as the result of a lawsuit filed by media groups in 2006), has never been made public before. Most of these documents reveal accounts of incompetence familiar to those who have studied Guantánamo closely, with innocent men detained by mistake (or because the US was offering substantial bounties to its allies for al-Qaeda or Taliban suspects), and numerous insignificant Taliban conscripts from Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Beyond these previously unknown cases, the documents also reveal stories of the 397 other prisoners released from September 2004 to the present day, and of the seven men who have died at the prison.

The memos are signed by the commander of Guantánamo at the time, and describe whether the prisoners in question are regarded as low, medium or high risk. Although they were obviously not conclusive in and of themselves, as final decisions about the disposition of prisoners were taken at a higher level, they represent not only the opinions of JTF-GTMO, but also the Criminal Investigation Task Force, created by the Department of Defense to conduct interrogations in the "War on Terror," and the BSCTs, the behavioral science teams consisting of psychologists who had a major say in the "exploitation" of prisoners in interrogation.

Crucially, the files also contain detailed explanations of the supposed intelligence used to justify the prisoners' detention. For many readers, these will be the most fascinating sections of the documents, as they seem to offer an extraordinary insight into the workings of US intelligence, but although many of the documents appear to promise proof of prisoners' association with al-Qaeda or other terrorist organizations, extreme caution is required.

The documents draw on the testimony of witnesses -- in most cases, the prisoners' fellow prisoners -- whose words are unreliable, either because they were subjected to torture or other forms of coercion (sometimes not in Guantánamo, but in secret prisons run by the CIA), or because they provided false statements to secure better treatment in Guantánamo.

Regular appearances throughout these documents by witnesses whose words should be regarded as untrustworthy include the following "high-value detainees" or "ghost prisoners". Please note that "ISN" and the numbers in brackets following the prisoners' names refer to the short "Internment Serial Numbers" by which the prisoners are or were identified in US custody:

How to Read WikiLeaks' Guantánamo Files

The nearly 800 documents in WikiLeaks' latest release of classified US documents are memoranda from Joint Task Force Guantánamo (JTF-GTMO), the combined force in charge of the US "War on Terror" prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, to US Southern Command, in Miami, Florida, regarding the disposition of the prisoners.

Written between 2002 and 2008, the memoranda were all marked as "secret," and their subject was whether to continue holding a prisoner, or whether to recommend his release (described as his "transfer" -- to the custody of his own government, or that of some other government). They were obviously not conclusive in and of themselves, as final decisions about the disposition of prisoners were taken at a higher level, but they are very significant, as they represent not only the opinions of JTF-GTMO, but also the Criminal Investigation Task Force, created by the Department of Defense to conduct interrogations in the "War on Terror," and the BSCTs, the behavioral science teams consisting of psychologists who had a major say in the "exploitation" of prisoners in interrogation.

Under the heading, "JTF-GTMO Detainee Assessment," the memos generally contain nine sections, describing the prisoners as follows, although the earlier examples, especially those dealing with prisoners released -- or recommended for release -- between 2002 and 2004, may have less detailed analyses than the following:

1. Personal information

Each prisoner is identified by name, by aliases, which the US claims to have identified, by place and date of birth, by citizenship, and by Internment Serial Number (ISN). These long lists of numbers and letters -- e.g. US9YM-000027DP -- are used to identify the prisoners in Guantánamo, helping to dehumanize them, as intended, by doing away with their names. The most significant section is the number towards the end, which is generally shortened, so that the example above would be known as ISN 027. In the files, the prisoners are identified by nationality, with 47 countries in total listed alphabetically, from "az" for Afghanistan to "ym" for Yemen.

2. Health

This section describes whether or not the prisoner in question has mental health issues and/or physical health issues. Many are judged to be in good health, but there are some shocking examples of prisoners with severe mental and/or physical problems.

3. JTF-GTMO Assessment

a. Under "Recommendation," the Task Force explains whether a prisoner should continue to be held, or should be released.
b. Under "Executive Summary," the Task Force briefly explains its reasoning, and, in more recent cases, also explains whether the prisoner is a low, medium or high risk as a threat to the US and its allies and as a threat in detention (i.e. based on their behavior in Guantánamo), and also whether they are regarded as of low, medium or high intelligence value.
c. Under "Summary of Changes," the Task Force explains whether there has been any change in the information provided since the last appraisal (generally, the prisoners are appraised on an annual basis).

4. Detainee's Account of Events

Based on the prisoners' own testimony, this section puts together an account of their history, and how they came to be seized, in Afghanistan, Pakistan or elsewhere, based on their own words.

5. Capture Information

This section explains how and where the prisoners were seized, and is followed by a description of their possessions at the time of capture, the date of their transfer to Guantánamo, and, spuriously, "Reasons for Transfer to JTF-GTMO," which lists alleged reasons for the prisoners' transfer, such as knowledge of certain topics for exploitation through interrogation. The reason that this is unconvincing is because, as former interrogator Chris Mackey (a pseudonym) explained in his book The Interrogators, the US high command, based in Camp Doha, Kuwait, stipulated that every prisoner who ended up in US custody had to be transferred to Guantánamo -- and that there were no exceptions; in other words, the "Reasons for transfer" were grafted on afterwards, as an attempt to justify the largely random rounding-up of prisoners.

6. Evaluation of Detainee's Account

In this section, the Task Force analyzes whether or not they find the prisoners' accounts convincing.

7. Detainee Threat

This section is the most significant from the point of view of the supposed intelligence used to justify the detention of prisoners. After "Assessment," which reiterates the conclusion at 3b, the main section, "Reasons for Continued Detention," may, at first glance, look convincing, but it must be stressed that, for the most part, it consists of little more than unreliable statements made by the prisoners' fellow prisoners -- either in Guantánamo, or in secret prisons run by the CIA, where torture and other forms of coercion were widespread, or through more subtle means in Guantánamo, where compliant prisoners who were prepared to make statements about their fellow prisoners were rewarded with better treatment. Some examples are available on the homepage for the release of these documents: http://wikileaks.ch/gitmo/

With this in mind, it should be noted that there are good reasons why Obama administration officials, in the interagency Guantánamo Review Task Force established by the President to review the cases of the 241 prisoners still held in Guantánamo when he took office, concluded that only 36 could be prosecuted.

The final part of this section, "Detainee’s Conduct," analyzes in detail how the prisoners have behaved during their imprisonment, with exact figures cited for examples of "Disciplinary Infraction."

8. Detainee Intelligence Value Assessment

After reiterating the intelligence assessment at 3b and recapping on the prisoners' alleged status, this section primarily assesses which areas of intelligence remain to be "exploited," according to the Task Force.

9. EC Status

The final section notes whether or not the prisoner in question is still regarded as an "enemy combatant," based on the findings of the Combatant Status Review Tribunals, held in 2004-05 to ascertain whether, on capture, the prisoners had been correctly labeled as "enemy combatants." Out of 558 cases, just 38 prisoners were assessed as being "no longer enemy combatants," and in some cases, when the result went in the prisoners' favor, the military convened new panels until it got the desired result.

http://wikileaks.ch/gitmo/
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abdussattar
04-26-2011, 11:32 AM
What Exactly are wikileaks cables?
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سيف الله
04-26-2011, 01:09 PM
Salaam

Heres a short definition

WikiLeaks is an international non-profit organisation that publishes submissions of private, secret, and classified media from anonymous news sources, news leaks, and whistleblowers. Its website, launched in 2006 under The Sunshine Press organisation, claimed a database of more than 1.2 million documents within a year of its launch. WikiLeaks describes its founders as a mix of Chinese dissidents, journalists, mathematicians, and start-up company technologists from the United States, Taiwan, Europe, Australia, and South Africa. Julian Assange, an Australian Internet activist, is generally described as its director. The site was originally launched as a user-editable wiki, but has progressively moved towards a more traditional publication model and no longer accepts either user comments or edits.

In April 2010, WikiLeaks published gunsight footage from the 12 July 2007 Baghdad airstrike in which Iraqi civilians and journalists were killed by an Apache helicopter, as the Collateral Murder video. In July of the same year, WikiLeaks released Afghan War Diary, a compilation of more than 76,900 documents about the War in Afghanistan not previously available for public review. In October 2010, the group released a package of almost 400,000 documents called the Iraq War Logs in coordination with major commercial media organisations. This allowed every death in Iraq, and across the border in Iran, to be mapped. In November 2010,WikiLeaks began releasing U.S. State department diplomatic cables.

In April 2011, Wikileaks began publishing 779 secret files relating to prisoners detained in the Guantanamo Bay detention camp.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiLeaks

Diplomatic cables are confidential messages sent between diplomats from all over the world and their parent country.
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abdussattar
04-26-2011, 04:09 PM
Hmm it seems to be doing good work...
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سيف الله
05-05-2011, 12:55 PM
Salaam

12 minute interview with Julian Assange - Full length interview will be released soon. (you can get it on RT I think)

Full video interview up: Ill replace teaser video and put up full interview.

FULL INTERVIEW (PART 1 of 2)



FULL INTERVIEW (PART 2 of 2)

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Ramadhan
05-06-2011, 03:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Junon
Salaam 12 minute interview with Julian Assange - Full length interview will be released soon. (you can get it on RT I think) Assange: Facebook, Google, Yahoo spying tools for US intelligence

Isnt this obvious?
We dont need an Assange to tell us that US intelligence collect data from internet portals, social networks and cloud computing. Heck, any intelligence agency worth their salt would do the same thing.
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سيف الله
05-06-2011, 09:54 AM
Salaam

You'd be surprised by how little people know.

For example I recently gave a talk about whether the UK and Britian was living under a survelliance soicety, concluding for the most part that we are.

Classmates were genuniely surprised to learn the extent of how government monitors our lives and how commercial companies collect data on its customers. Disappointing that some were even happy for this state of affairs to continue. :hmm:

Good to raise awareness.
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