Parenting in the west

[muslim1812]

Salam all...this is my first post on one of these forums and something which has been on my mind for a while...

I am a Muslim living in the west. I have been born and raised as a second generation Muslim, after my parents and family migrated here before I was born. I feel fortunate that I (or at least I pray inshallah) have been guided towards a straight path in the religion, however I see many colleagues and youths within the Islamic community who seem to have given in to the norms of the society within which we live in, and lost their roots. The culture has engulfed them from such an early age, even though the parents are religious advocates. This is widespread within many Islamic communities I have seen, and it begs the question...

how does this bode for the next generation?

It seems as though a host of Muslims within this generation have been lost through the net at the hands of some of the bad habits within this society. Especially with the expanding resentment towards the Muslim religion, how are we to raise good God-fearing children to embrace and strike a balance with Western society? I feel that the emphasis should be placed from within the home, and if the core is strong within the first few years of life in instilling the Islamic faith then it can carry through to the rest of a child's environment and serve as protection. But my concern would be on how to strengthen this core, especially with the widening gap between Islam and the West.

Any thoughts?

JazakumAllah khair

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam

Welcome to the forum .

I read there are many mosques in the west now and they arrange Quran classes on week days. Parents should take kids to attend those classes , attend Jummah salat and try to keep kids away from TV . They must teach them to take good from west and abandon the evil.

If parents themselves are good Muslims ,InshaAllah kids will follow their footsteps.

[أحمد]

:sl:

Salaam

Welcome to the forum .

I read there are many mosques in the west now and they arrange Quran classes on week days. Parents should take kids to attend those classes , attend Jummah salat and try to keep kids away from TV . They must teach them to take good from west and abandon the evil.

If parents themselves are good Muslims ,InshaAllah kids will follow their footsteps.

Some very important points highlighted :Alhumdill

As for Quran classes in masajid; you have to be a little more careful. As many as there are genuine Quran teachers, there're also mosques where the "teachers" don't teach anything, and waste two hours on "gossipping". If you find that your child isn't learning; there's a possibility of such, but don't suspect the teacher. Figure out what the problem is, and if the problem is as mentioned; consider taking your child elsewhere for Islamic education. Most masajid have reasonably acceptable standards for teaching, at least a third of the subject areas covered. The "pass rates" in masajid, which conduct examinations; are much higher than state schools (in the UK).

:wa:

[Thucydides1987]

I'm not Muslim, but I have a similar problem with my parents -- it's a matter of culture in my case, not religion. I think that it'd be wrong to force your kids to strictly follow the culture or religion of the country from which you came, especially if they were born in the West; as much as it is hard to do for a parent, one needs to acknowledge that they are Westerners now, and not from the country where you came. Whatever idea that you have of living and growing up in your homeland, they only have a romanticized/idealistic version of it -- their home is the country where they were born and raised, and you cannot change that...any attempt would lead to an artificial and inauthentic identity, and would instead create more problems.

Having said that though, by no means should you avoid instilling them with a sense of pride of identity. In my opinion (maybe this won't be effective with everyone), I think the best way to do this is to make your kids aware of the language and history of their ethnic homeland. Make them understand their past -- the history of their culture, religion, and family --, they may really appreciate that in the end, and perhaps even take the initiative to seek more for themselves. Beyond this, there isn't much else you can do; you certainly shouldn't be aggressively forcing it upon them, since they'd resent and turn away from you in such a situation.

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[Woodrow]

Here in the USA it will depend on where you live. Where my wife and I live would be a very difficult area to raise Children as we are the only 2 Muslims within 200 miles distance. However some areas have very large Muslim populations and in cities such as Dearborn, Michigan they are the majority. Before people migrate to the West especially to the USA they should check out the demographics of the area they are moving to before moving. To say they want to move to the USA can be a challenge and does require looking closely. One has to view each State as having different demographics and within the larger states the population demographics can differ from county to county. Texas for example has counties that are virtually 100% Roman Catholic, some that are predominately Buddhist, it is also home of the largest Hindu shrine outside of India. Yet it has one of the largest Muslim Populations in the USA mostly located in Dallas, Austin and Houston.

It is possible to live in the USA in areas that have virtually no Western influence.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

i dont know if i have any "authority" to speak about this, since im not a mother/parent so im not sure how much my opinion really is in touch with reality.

i think the issue of raising children in the west/non-Islamic place really needs to be addressed (if it hasn't already). the issue of (good) parenting is an issue ignored by many people and becuase of this our societies as whole aren't all that great.

often the notion of "staying-at-home-mothers are needed to raise good children," is raised but it has its flaws for the reason that being a stay-at-home mother =/= being a good mother and secondly fathers need to be involved with their children raising as-well. that's a different issue but the point that im trying to make, is that the quality of the parents/parenting is important in raising children. mothers and fathers alike need to be of good quality so to speak. they need to be educated about Islam first and foremost (what are their children rights, prayer, intermingling, what is halal, what is haram, etc). parents themselves need to be educated to teach their children. there is no sense of true (Islamic identity) for a lot of Muslim children, which is really sad.

Parents need to be educated about the schools they send their children to, the friends their children see. having said that, parenting isn't only about authority over their children, they also need to have a good relationship with their children as well (so mercy and understanding aswell), again this goes to mothers and fathers as well.

so many factors contribute to the raising of children it isn't just one issue. im not a mother myself but what i have noticed in life is that everything good and everything that is worthwhile needs the utmost effort and parenting i would imagine parenting would be no different...i think some people (especially those who arent married/dont have children) think that child raising is easy- i dont think it is and i assume it requires an abundance of patience for both the mother and father.

many parents who are migrants and send their children to non-Muslim/non-Islamic schools are oblivious to what goes on. we often send our children to schools or get them involved with anyone and anything believing it is good for them, whilst being oblivious to how it maybe destroying them aswell.
all those little luxuries we have (internet etc) we need to be careful of this and not be sucked in by the fact that since everyone gives their children access to the internet, then we must aswell. we need to take responsibility becuase we are the ones who are responsible for our children at the end of the day. not the neighbor or the family friend who let their children use the internet unsupervised. everyone has a different way of raising their children and we must be smart (and independent) about the way we raise our children because what applies to someone else's children may not necessarily apply to ours.

children are going to hear and see alot of things in and outside the home, but we have to be-careful of not introducing our children to them too early. some parents give their children things when it isn't appropriate for their age under the notion that somewhere along the track anyway they will encounter that particular thing.

not giving in to your children and being "proud" (read: protective) of your authority as a parent helps in raising children. i dont mean proud/protective in an arrogant or unjust manner but when (for eg) you tell your child to do something you shouldn't give in if they dont listen... you have to remain strong otherwise the kid wont take you seriously.

parents often fear that they offend or will cause harm to their child if they are being authoritative such as smacking them when it is needed. but dont forget that it may affect your child in a negative way if you aren't strict with them when they need it. if you are strict/smack them when needed, it teaches them manners and good manners is important (says the one who doesnt have any manners *runs away*)

another thing that could prove bad to a children upbringing is the relationship of the parents themselves. forget domestic violence, its results are clear, but parents who aren't even reading the same page when raising their children and disrespect/disagree of the other parents' opinion in front of the child is a no-go zone.
this is sending the wrong message to your child and chances are that they are going to disrespect and disobey the parent that is being disagreed with. if you have differences sort it out in private/away from the child so that the child doesn't pick up the wrong messages.

generally we need to put out heads together and figure out whats good for our children and what isnt and whatever isnt good for our children we need to be alert to the fact that it may affect them in a bad way as-well. we need to be alert and understand our childs needs aswell. find good and reasonable alternatives for them (another example of a "good quality" parent)...in other words, if we take or give something to our children, what is it going to mean in regards to that particular things opposite.

for example the issue of tv. often this topic is raised (and understandably/rightfully so) but we need to be smart and give our children alternatives i.e if you take the tv away, what are you going to give instead? first issue is that without a tv children will get bored and need a way to relieve their boredom...so if you take the tv away, how are they going to relive their boredom? and 2) how is you child going to feel when everyone else in a society has/watches tv and they are the only ones who dont? how are you going to fill that void of not fitting in? dont say that its not important to fit in, because you aren't being realistic. im not saying that fitting in should be implement at the expense of your childs discipline (of course it shouldn't), but my point is is that you cant ignore these things.

these are just 2 issues i could think of regarding my example of tv... there maybe other issues surrounding taking the tv away...but yes, my point is that we need to address that side pf parenting aswell. we have to address the opposite if you will of what we implement and what we dont. everything has an affect to it and we need to be educated about the affect that it will have.

i personally dont like the idea of raising children around a tv for 1) it deprives them of an imagination 2) it encourages disobedience (to parents and to Allah) but in a time where tv is in every house hold if we take the tv away, as i said we need alternatives. some random example i can think of is, sit and have quality time with your children in the form of playing around with them, coloring with them and that sort of things. children thrive on attention and if that's what you give them (in a balanced way of course) i doubt they would even ask about a tv. in other words make time for your children, they cant raise themselves. of course being a mother or father you probably dont have time for all things like giving your full and whole hearted attention to your children as you are running around caring for your child but take the time out if you do have it, and beware of those useless things you do, but dont really need that may have a bad affect on your child. eg maybe you are going out too much with your friends or excessively have guests over.

children are the bricks blocks for society as a whole and their parents (ie the way they discipline, etc) are the foundation so parents need to get their priorities straightened out and should be cautious about depriving their children of the real things that matter.


this post was a bit random as i just typed it as it came to my head...so it may not make sense.

[De-TeR-mIn-Ed]

its scary..v sacry..if we did such...acts in this time..will we b able to save our kids?

[laaib11]

i dont know if i have any "authority" to speak about this, since im not a mother/parent so im not sure how much my opinion really is in touch with reality.

i think the issue of raising children in the west/non-Islamic place really needs to be addressed (if it hasn't already). the issue of (good) parenting is an issue ignored by many people and becuase of this our societies as whole aren't all that great.

often the notion of "staying-at-home-mothers are needed to raise good children," is raised but it has its flaws for the reason that being a stay-at-home mother =/= being a good mother and secondly fathers need to be involved with their children raising as-well. that's a different issue but the point that im trying to make, is that the quality of the parents/parenting is important in raising children. mothers and fathers alike need to be of good quality so to speak. they need to be educated about Islam first and foremost (what are their children rights, prayer, intermingling, what is halal, what is haram, etc). parents themselves need to be educated to teach their children. there is no sense of true (Islamic identity) for a lot of Muslim children, which is really sad.

Parents need to be educated about the schools they send their children to, the friends their children see. having said that, parenting isn't only about authority over their children, they also need to have a good relationship with their children as well (so mercy and understanding aswell), again this goes to mothers and fathers as well.

so many factors contribute to the raising of children it isn't just one issue. im not a mother myself but what i have noticed in life is that everything good and everything that is worthwhile needs the utmost effort and parenting i would imagine parenting would be no different...i think some people (especially those who arent married/dont have children) think that child raising is easy- i dont think it is and i assume it requires an abundance of patience for both the mother and father.

many parents who are migrants and send their children to non-Muslim/non-Islamic schools are oblivious to what goes on. we often send our children to schools or get them involved with anyone and anything believing it is good for them, whilst being oblivious to how it maybe destroying them aswell.
all those little luxuries we have (internet etc) we need to be careful of this and not be sucked in by the fact that since everyone gives their children access to the internet, then we must aswell. we need to take responsibility becuase we are the ones who are responsible for our children at the end of the day. not the neighbor or the family friend who let their children use the internet unsupervised. everyone has a different way of raising their children and we must be smart (and independent) about the way we raise our children because what applies to someone else's children may not necessarily apply to ours.

children are going to hear and see alot of things in and outside the home, but we have to be-careful of not introducing our children to them too early. some parents give their children things when it isn't appropriate for their age under the notion that somewhere along the track anyway they will encounter that particular thing.

not giving in to your children and being "proud" (read: protective) of your authority as a parent helps in raising children. i dont mean proud/protective in an arrogant or unjust manner but when (for eg) you tell your child to do something you shouldn't give in if they dont listen... you have to remain strong otherwise the kid wont take you seriously.

parents often fear that they offend or will cause harm to their child if they are being authoritative such as smacking them when it is needed. but dont forget that it may affect your child in a negative way if you aren't strict with them when they need it. if you are strict/smack them when needed, it teaches them manners and good manners is important (says the one who doesnt have any manners *runs away*)

another thing that could prove bad to a children upbringing is the relationship of the parents themselves. forget domestic violence, its results are clear, but parents who aren't even reading the same page when raising their children and disrespect/disagree of the other parents' opinion in front of the child is a no-go zone.
this is sending the wrong message to your child and chances are that they are going to disrespect and disobey the parent that is being disagreed with. if you have differences sort it out in private/away from the child so that the child doesn't pick up the wrong messages.

generally we need to put out heads together and figure out whats good for our children and what isnt and whatever isnt good for our children we need to be alert to the fact that it may affect them in a bad way as-well. we need to be alert and understand our childs needs aswell. find good and reasonable alternatives for them (another example of a "good quality" parent)...in other words, if we take or give something to our children, what is it going to mean in regards to that particular things opposite.

for example the issue of tv. often this topic is raised (and understandably/rightfully so) but we need to be smart and give our children alternatives i.e if you take the tv away, what are you going to give instead? first issue is that without a tv children will get bored and need a way to relieve their boredom...so if you take the tv away, how are they going to relive their boredom? and 2) how is you child going to feel when everyone else in a society has/watches tv and they are the only ones who dont? how are you going to fill that void of not fitting in? dont say that its not important to fit in, because you aren't being realistic. im not saying that fitting in should be implement at the expense of your childs discipline (of course it shouldn't), but my point is is that you cant ignore these things.

these are just 2 issues i could think of regarding my example of tv... there maybe other issues surrounding taking the tv away...but yes, my point is that we need to address that side pf parenting aswell. we have to address the opposite if you will of what we implement and what we dont. everything has an affect to it and we need to be educated about the affect that it will have.

i personally dont like the idea of raising children around a tv for 1) it deprives them of an imagination 2) it encourages disobedience (to parents and to Allah) but in a time where tv is in every house hold if we take the tv away, as i said we need alternatives. some random example i can think of is, sit and have quality time with your children in the form of playing around with them, coloring with them and that sort of things. children thrive on attention and if that's what you give them (in a balanced way of course) i doubt they would even ask about a tv. in other words make time for your children, they cant raise themselves. of course being a mother or father you probably dont have time for all things like giving your full and whole hearted attention to your children as you are running around caring for your child but take the time out if you do have it, and beware of those useless things you do, but dont really need that may have a bad affect on your child. eg maybe you are going out too much with your friends or excessively have guests over.

children are the bricks blocks for society as a whole and their parents (ie the way they discipline, etc) are the foundation so parents need to get their priorities straightened out and should be cautious about depriving their children of the real things that matter.


this post was a bit random as i just typed it as it came to my head...so it may not make sense.

sister your post was full of really important points

i picked up this paragraph in particular, television has become a foster parent for most kids. so many parents just dump their kids inf ront the tv when they want to clean the house or do something else.

i guess u cud argue tht if u have an islamic cartoon/dvd, it mite b acceptable, but generally tv's evils far outweigh its benefits

Theres just not enough emphasis on being a good parent, whenevr a child grows up disobedient or worse, people blame the school, their friends, the society around them or the child themselves. but all children are born innocent and upon the fitrah, and mans natural disposition is towards goo.d its the duty of us as parents to nurture and sustain that good. and that starts in the home.

jazakillah khair for your insightful points sr

ws

[muslim1812]

wow some really interesting points raised...I didn't realise I had to come and check the thread I thought I'd get a notification once someone had posted!

i mean it does seem to me that there is a lottttttttttt more to raising a child than meets the eye, and you wouldn't just want to raise any child, surely you'd want them to succeed and give them the chance to be the best in all walks of life. You'd think being a good muslim would help to raise good muslim children but i've seen many examples of children with pious parents who seem to have gone off the rails...the generation gap just seems a bit too big and there's a misunderstanding there.

teaching them Quran and deciding what masjid to go to seems like to tip of the iceberg, there must surely be so many situations similar to that. And Ummu Sufyan raised extremely vaild points with regards to tv...it seems like such an easy get away for parents to leave their children in front of one but is it optimal to do so? Another point was regarding parents giving time to their children...and also needing to get along between themselves...it seems like this issue of parenting stems from multiple and various roots which all need to be addressed.

Woodrow you're the only muslim within 200 miles!...that is far...i think its right what you said, that looking at the location and the demographics of it is important...but its like thucydides1987 implied that maybe its good to let children learn about the society they live in...i believe it would allow them to grow up with an open mind and be more socially aware.

practically speaking it is an issue which needs addressing...i just don't know where you'd start..

[Grace Seeker]

wow some really interesting points raised...I didn't realise I had to come and check the thread I thought I'd get a notification once someone had posted!

I would have thought so too. I know that I do. You might want to your CP and check how you've set your subscription notifications.


As to the topic of the thread...
I think that one has to ask the question, what does one consider good parenting?

Is one's goal as a parent to raise a child that turns out according to some ideal we have created in our own mind -- believing what we believe, valuing what we value, doing what we would have them do?

OR

Is one's goal as a parent to raise an independent adult who functions reasonably well in the world interacting with others and capable of analyzing a a variety of situtations and adapting to make resonable decisions relevant to his/her own goals and personally held values?


That choice has nothing to do with whether one lives in the west or some other culture. But the actual parenting acts will vary considerably, no matter the culture, depending on which type of parent one desires to be.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Yeah its a pressing question that we as muslims in the west havent properly grappled with, particularly keeping the faith alive in a western/secular culture where many values, customs etc clash and where one is likely to experience hostlity.

some good advice already given (Thucydides and Ummu Sufyaan rather good) , only thing I will add is that we need to build strong vibant communities so brothers and sisters dont feel islolated. Loneliness and isolation, feeling like a fish out of water can be a terrbile experience.

This thread might help, talks about issues Muslims are facing in western societies, hard issues but worth a watch :)

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...muslims-d.html

[Woodrow]

Woodrow you're the only muslim within 200 miles!...that is far...i think its right what you said, that looking at the location and the demographics of it is important...but its like thucydides1987 implied that maybe its good to let children learn about the society they live in...i believe it would allow them to grow up with an open mind and be more socially aware.

practically speaking it is an issue which needs addressing...i just don't know where you'd start..

For those who are thinking of moving to the USA it would be a good idea to first look up the demographics of the State they are planning to move to. A quick over view:

For more specific information one can go to HERE

There will be different parenting issues in each State and in some States it will be easier to assure a child will get at least a basic Islamic education. It can be of importance for those with children to be aware there are 21 States that have basically a 0 Muslim population. While ND is one listed as 0 Muslims it should be noted that Fargo has a fairly large Muslim population although most are not citizens and hence are not counted in the Statistics.

[laaib11]

I think it wud be foolish to try and cocoon our kids from wider society, if we want our kids to grow up as examples for others and be great callers to islam they need to know how their socxiety is, warts and all. i guess we got to draw the line at letting them become over exposed to the problems outside the home

the US map is interesting, im from UK myself so demographics a tad easier as majority of muslims live in London!! but though there mite be variations in the issues parents face across these areas, there are some fundamental things that every muslim parent should address with their child e.g. their goals for the child, their school, the use of their free time at home etc etc

Junon - u have hit the nail on the head with building vibrant communities to prevent isolation!!

[lamppost]

i personally think our communities have failed us when it comes to guiding parents in the best way to raise children. We just assume that everyone will be fine and will just manage. Our children are growing up in a fast changing environment, parents are just oblivious to whats going on. There just doesnt seem to be any support available. Thats the problem.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:

i mean it does seem to me that there is a lottttttttttt more to raising a child than meets the eye, and you wouldn't just want to raise any child, surely you'd want them to succeed and give them the chance to be the best in all walks of life. You'd think being a good muslim would help to raise good muslim children but i've seen many examples of children with pious parents who seem to have gone off the rails...the generation gap just seems a bit too big and there's a misunderstanding there.

i think sometimes parents may forget that after the age of 5/6 a child still needs to be shown love. obviously this affection would change as the child grows older, but it seems sometimes that some parents seem to forget that even in their teens, children still need their parents love and attention and not necessarily physically (though that may be very relevant as-well) but even trying to joke around with their children. some relationship between the child and parent is sometimes quite formal and official.

teaching them Quran and deciding what masjid to go to seems like to tip of the iceberg, there must surely be so many situations similar to that.

i think there's also the problem of dropping your kids as the masjid to get them out of your hair whilst you don’t really go to the masjid yourself and/or dont have a proper Islamic environment in the home...that’s a problem aswell.

practically speaking it is an issue which needs addressing...i just don't know where you'd start..

from whatever is going wrong. thats usually a clear indication and sign of what and where needs to be changed.

and also needing to get along between themselves...

This (the following) is really important as well and I’ve seen and heard cases where the mother and father have different ideas for a particular aspect in their child's raising.

The following is just my opinion and is based on my own observations so again im not sure if it's. i'll start with sisters first. Sometimes our love for our children can be so blinding to the extent that we don’t realise how this may have a negative impact to their upbringing. Too much of anything is not good and too much of love isn’t any different.

It’s probably hard, but it is important to balance your love for your child with discipline...these 2 must be on the same par (i know this is the case, because that’s what my mum says). Having too much of either isn’t doing any favors to your child. Children need to learn manners (for eg) and showing too much love unnecessarily/at the wrong time (like when your child is in trouble) is sending the wrong messages to your child.

Anyway the point is, is that naturally is that waking up in the middle of the night to attend to their needs, and all the rest of it we tend to (and understandably so) think that our way of perception of parenting is the only way and get defensive over this.

But (imo) males /fathers also help in their child’s upbringing in the sense that because they DONT have that motherly instinct like you would, he will see things in a different light. I don’t really know how to explain my point but that non-motherly instinct in males helps in not seeing things from how we, as mothers ,may see them...and the reason that is so, is because their love towards their children as fathers, will probably be a little different from the love we have as mothers...it maybe directed/expressed in a different manner and so i suppose you could say that this difference will balance out that blinding love that i was previously talking about, where in some cases may blind us from giving the best to our children.


Now for the brothers...you need to respect your wives’ disciplining and don’t disagree with her in front of your child. It is such an insult. Whilst you are at work your wives are spending all day balancing between keeping a house tidy and raising/disciplining your children...so when you come home from work and your child after getting a whack for one reason or another comes to you looking all upset, just be a bit mindful and considerate that he/she may actually be in trouble for something. You have no idea of what has caused your child to be upset and for all you know you could just be undoing some very important disciplining.

I’ve seen this happen where the child goes to the dad when he/she is in trouble and the dad just feels sorry for him/her and doesn’t take the mothers hard work of discipline into consideration. Plus it makes the mother feel stupid and belittled in front of her child.

And fathers, if you do differ with your wives on a particular aspect of her raising, take her feelings as a mother into consideration. Just as you are defensive of your role as the “hunter, gatherer” chances are, is she too will be very defensive of her role as a mother... so when advising her, advise her in away where you dont come across as if you are challenging her role.

and another thing that fathers should know is that your children (especially your daughters) need your love. kids adore their fathers, so make sure you attend to your child's need in that respect. dont make the mistake in thinking that it is feminine... i did bring this particular point up for a specific reason though and that is that when your daughters are ready for marriage she is going to look for a husband based on how her father raised/treated her (studies actually show this, but it is true)...

--------------
i really hope that members who are already parents can pitch in this thread. it would give us a more realistic insight of what it’s like to be a parent and the difficulties faced when raising children and how to overcome them. what so far has been posted in this thread is interesting, but it would be better for a more realistic input.

do children really turn out how you raised them?

is there a difference in parenting between a mother and father...on other words who has it more difficult?

[Grace Seeker]

Just to re-affirm what Ummu Sufyaan said here:

:sl:

i think sometimes parents may forget that after the age of 5/6 a child still needs to be shown love. obviously this affection would change as the child grows older, but it seems sometimes that some parents seem to forget that even in their teens, children still need their parents love and attention and not necessarily physically (though that may be very relevant as-well) but even trying to joke around with their children. some relationship between the child and parent is sometimes quite formal and official.

.
I would suggest that all ages need to be shown a parent's love.


"it is the overt duty of all those who profess to believe in God and/or stand for justice to oppose the tyranny of Powers who act as being beyond reproach." --excerpt from an 12-12-10 article on ISLAM21C



Such is good advice not only when dealing with governments, but also in the way one functions as head of a household. Sometimes as parents we feel that we know better than our children what is best for them, and while we probably really do, nonetheless we need to be careful that we don't exercise the authority Allah has given as a tyrant. Our role is to parent, not to dictate. We must take care to always temper our authority to control with the recognition that we are also authorized to express love. Our obligation is to find balance in raising our children.
.

[ahmed1980]

:sl:


i think sometimes parents may forget that after the age of 5/6 a child still needs to be shown love. obviously this affection would change as the child grows older, but it seems sometimes that some parents seem to forget that even in their teens, children still need their parents love and attention and not necessarily physically (though that may be very relevant as-well) but even trying to joke around with their children. some relationship between the child and parent is sometimes quite formal and official.


i think there's also the problem of dropping your kids as the masjid to get them out of your hair whilst you don’t really go to the masjid yourself and/or dont have a proper Islamic environment in the home...that’s a problem aswell.


from whatever is going wrong. thats usually a clear indication and sign of what and where needs to be changed.


This (the following) is really important as well and I’ve seen and heard cases where the mother and father have different ideas for a particular aspect in their child's raising.

The following is just my opinion and is based on my own observations so again im not sure if it's. i'll start with sisters first. Sometimes our love for our children can be so blinding to the extent that we don’t realise how this may have a negative impact to their upbringing. Too much of anything is not good and too much of love isn’t any different.

It’s probably hard, but it is important to balance your love for your child with discipline...these 2 must be on the same par (i know this is the case, because that’s what my mum says). Having too much of either isn’t doing any favors to your child. Children need to learn manners (for eg) and showing too much love unnecessarily/at the wrong time (like when your child is in trouble) is sending the wrong messages to your child.

Anyway the point is, is that naturally is that waking up in the middle of the night to attend to their needs, and all the rest of it we tend to (and understandably so) think that our way of perception of parenting is the only way and get defensive over this.

But (imo) males /fathers also help in their child’s upbringing in the sense that because they DONT have that motherly instinct like you would, he will see things in a different light. I don’t really know how to explain my point but that non-motherly instinct in males helps in not seeing things from how we, as mothers ,may see them...and the reason that is so, is because their love towards their children as fathers, will probably be a little different from the love we have as mothers...it maybe directed/expressed in a different manner and so i suppose you could say that this difference will balance out that blinding love that i was previously talking about, where in some cases may blind us from giving the best to our children.


Now for the brothers...you need to respect your wives’ disciplining and don’t disagree with her in front of your child. It is such an insult. Whilst you are at work your wives are spending all day balancing between keeping a house tidy and raising/disciplining your children...so when you come home from work and your child after getting a whack for one reason or another comes to you looking all upset, just be a bit mindful and considerate that he/she may actually be in trouble for something. You have no idea of what has caused your child to be upset and for all you know you could just be undoing some very important disciplining.

I’ve seen this happen where the child goes to the dad when he/she is in trouble and the dad just feels sorry for him/her and doesn’t take the mothers hard work of discipline into consideration. Plus it makes the mother feel stupid and belittled in front of her child.

And fathers, if you do differ with your wives on a particular aspect of her raising, take her feelings as a mother into consideration. Just as you are defensive of your role as the “hunter, gatherer” chances are, is she too will be very defensive of her role as a mother... so when advising her, advise her in away where you dont come across as if you are challenging her role.

and another thing that fathers should know is that your children (especially your daughters) need your love. kids adore their fathers, so make sure you attend to your child's need in that respect. dont make the mistake in thinking that it is feminine... i did bring this particular point up for a specific reason though and that is that when your daughters are ready for marriage she is going to look for a husband based on how her father raised/treated her (studies actually show this, but it is true)...

--------------
i really hope that members who are already parents can pitch in this thread. it would give us a more realistic insight of what it’s like to be a parent and the difficulties faced when raising children and how to overcome them. what so far has been posted in this thread is interesting, but it would be better for a more realistic input.

do children really turn out how you raised them?

is there a difference in parenting between a mother and father...on other words who has it more difficult?

Subahanallah, interesting discussion!

i think sister raises an v imp point; the issue is slightly deeper than just parenting; it starts with our relationship with our own parents; and our relationships with our own spouces and then goes on to how we raise our children.

if we could improve those relationships, as individuals and as a society; the amount of benefit that would emerge from them is unmeasurable.

for me, and i'm sure for others; every time i hear a talk or read a book about the prophet's (saw) family life, advice on treating parents - i find it absolutely amazing; what our parents do for us is difficult to express in words. And like all blessings, one can only appreciate it only after it has left them.

hope we can all take some proactive steps to make positive changes in our own lives, and those around us

[ahmed1980]

on the topic of love and diciplin, i heard a sayying of Ali (ra) on topic of raising children:

'play with you children for the first 7 yrs; dicipline them / become a teacher for the next 7 years and then become their companion' ...

cant remember the source, sorry

[Grace Seeker]

on the topic of love and diciplin, i heard a sayying of Ali (ra) on topic of raising children:

'play with you children for the first 7 yrs; dicipline them / become a teacher for the next 7 years and then become their companion' ...

This is based on an hadith of the Prophet (pbuh): “The child is the master for seven years; and a slave for seven years and a vizier for seven years; so if he grows into a good character within 21 years, well and good; otherwise leave him alone because you have discharged your responsibility before Allah.”

The same hadith has been explained by Imam Ja`far as-Sadiq (a.s.): “Let your child play upto seven years; and keep him with you (for education and training) for another seven years; then if he succeeds (well and good); otherwise, there is no good in him.”

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Just to re-affirm what Ummu Sufyaan said here:

I would suggest that all ages need to be shown a parent's love.

"it is the overt duty of all those who profess to believe in God and/or stand for justice to oppose the tyranny of Powers who act as being beyond reproach." --excerpt from an 12-12-10 article on ISLAM21C



Such is good advice not only when dealing with governments, but also in the way one functions as head of a household. Sometimes as parents we feel that we know better than our children what is best for them, and while we probably really do, nonetheless we need to be careful that we don't exercise the authority Allah has given as a tyrant. Our role is to parent, not to dictate. We must take care to always temper our authority to control with the recognition that we are also authorized to express love. Our obligation is to find balance in raising our children.
.

im not quite following what you're getting at here. though i can understand how not showing love to your child can be seen as and/or lead to oppression of the child, it has not at all been suggested that not showing love to ones children is indeed oppression and therefore the need "to stand up to tyrany," as you have indirectly suggested in your post, is not really relevant to this discussion at all.

but of course if parents are indeed oppressive standing up against oppression requires tact otherwise things may backfire onto us, making our situation worse. sometimes some parents, due to their old age perhaps dont realize that they maybe oppressing their children and so tact especially in such a case would be even more require.

[Detritavore]

I grew up in the West so I'm speaking from the "childs" POV, I suppose (but not really).

I think the issues voiced weren't a problem for me to be honest. I attribute this to the fact that, firstly, religion has always been an integral part of my life courtesy of my parents and secondly my parents and I communicate well-- I actually consider my parents my friends haha-- so yeah I guess that worked to keep me grounded.

This is perhaps a personality trait, though I feel it's not completely innate, but it also helped that I'm a "nonconformist", my word of choice is actually strange (see Muslim (145), Abu Hurairah haha). Being an outsider really helped keep things in perspective for me, hence I don't feel I was raise by "society" or rather popular culture.

[Woodrow]

Perhaps we humans have a knack at making issues more complex than they need be. For some reason we like to make simplicity into difficulty. Children are going to be raised. That we can not prevent. No matter what we do our children will one day become adults.

We who are parents need to only accept the fact that if we do not raise our children, the society we live in is going to.

[GreyKode]

This is based on an hadith of the Prophet (pbuh): “The child is the master for seven years; and a slave for seven years and a vizier for seven years; so if he grows into a good character within 21 years, well and good; otherwise leave him alone because you have discharged your responsibility before Allah.”

The same hadith has been explained by Imam Ja`far as-Sadiq (a.s.): “Let your child play upto seven years; and keep him with you (for education and training) for another seven years; then if he succeeds (well and good); otherwise, there is no good in him.”

Kindly, graceseeker do not post a hadith without posting its source.

[Zafran]

Salaam

a very important topic - a lot of good points here as well.

peace

[Al-manar]

This is based on an hadith of the Prophet (pbuh): “The child is the master for seven years; and a slave for seven years and a vizier for seven years; so if he grows into a good character within 21 years, well and good; otherwise leave him alone because you have discharged your responsibility before Allah.”

such narration is not authentic to be accepted as one of the prophet's sayings....

the only place it is mentioned is the Hadith collection ,Al-Mu'jam Al-Awsat written by Imam Al-Tabarani

عن أبي جبيرة قال : قال رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم - : " الولد سيد سبع سنين ، وعبد سبع سنين ، ووزير سبع سنين ، فإن رضيت مكاتفته لإحدى وعشرين ، وإلا فاضرب على جنبه فقد اعتذرت إلى الله عز وجل " . رواه الطبراني في الأوسط وقال : لا يروى عن النبي - صلى الله عليه وسلم - إلا بهذا الإسناد ، وفيه زيد بن جبيرة بن محمود وهو متروك .
the narration has Isnad problem .....

anyway ....me personaly (and many others) would listen to, and tell others about a narration (that is classified as weak in chain of transmission etc..)that mention some words of wisdom ,high moral values ........

but when it comes to creeds .... no way...

[Grace Seeker]

im not quite following what you're getting at here.

Simply that over the years I have watched parents who have behaved as little dictators with regard to their children. They do this for lots of various reasons, sometimes even convincing themselves that they are doing so out of love or to make their children's lives better. But often it seems to me that this isn't quite so. Instead of nurturing their children they tyrannize them in the name of producing something the parent desires.

An example in my community is the number of parents who take a natural interest a child might have in sports that gets perverted by the parent's desire to live vicariously through the exploits of the child and has the child practicing the parent's preferred sport night and day: "Son, you missed a free-throw in your game yesterday, now go outside and shoot 1000 before supper." -- and the child is only in third grade.

Or sometimes it shows up in extreme forms of discipline that really isn't discipline at all, but in reality nothing more than abuse.

I would contend that just because a parent has power and authority doesn't mean that we are free to exercise it unfettered. As another saying holds, "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". That was said about governments, but it can also apply to the home if we who are parents don't realize that just because we are a child's parent doesn't make us the final arbitrator. Allah is. And we will be held accountable for any abuse of our parental role.

[Grace Seeker]

Kindly, graceseeker do not post a hadith without posting its source.

Sorry I didn't post to everyone's satisfaction. My source was an article "Family Life In Islam" as published by www.*************. They did not cite the original source of the hadith. You may wish to take it up this oversight with them.


----edit---------------------

Can someone explain to me why the name for this obviously Islamic website will only post here as a series of asterisks?

[SafaAuditore]

For those who are thinking of moving to the USA it would be a good idea to first look up the demographics of the State they are planning to move to. A quick over view:



For more specific information one can go to

There will be different parenting issues in each State and in some States it will be easier to assure a child will get at least a basic Islamic education. It can be of importance for those with children to be aware there are 21 States that have basically a 0 Muslim population. While ND is one listed as 0 Muslims it should be noted that Fargo has a fairly large Muslim population although most are not citizens and hence are not counted in the Statistics.

Can't believe Ohio and New york are on the same level...

Also i wanted to say that it's not exactly about where you live because many muslims in america are already under the bad influence.
For example, Detroit MI is LOADED with muslims, but almost everyone there does drugs, joins gangs, or does other bad things. So many people I know that move over there are pushed under the influence and end up doing the same things.
It’s all about what the parent’s do. Well, not completely but the majority.
Where I live is in a suburb with only about 5 muslim families living here. The rest are Christian or other religions. Remember this is a suburb, so the influence of everyone here is actually positive for the muslim kids. My siblings learn some good things from them, like not doing drugs and stuff – because nobody here does that, and when they do find one person every once in forever that does that, the person is looked down upon and nobody gets near them. Like…everything is emphasized to an extra level.
We also have a mosque about 10 minutes away, and most of the teachers and students are good, and others don’t exactly know what they’re doing O.o…Like during salaah on eid, a lady would stand up on a table and shout sooo loud the men heard, “SHUT UP!” loool…They’re not like a bad influence, but they’re not like, super religious to a degree that it would rub off on muslim kids either..
So basically what I’m trying to say is, it’s not about how close you are to muslims. It’s about what is revealed to you in the area. What’s normal and whats uber bad in that area.
You see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil – and you’re good. If drugs are shown to you everytime you walk to the store to get some milk, it’ll eventually rub off on you – especially if you’re not so strong in faith. And keeping strong in faith is extremely tough in many areas of the world.

[muslim1812]

Without doubt the area in which you raise a child in is crucial, and would definitely help to be around people of good morals and character, however its sometimes hard to make sure you can raise kids in a certain area as many other factors play a part such as jobs and workplace etc.

I feel possibly if scholars in the field of research were able to give more talks possibly on this topic it would help, I just haven't heard of much going on. reading a book can be good but the knowledge is limited by words on a page, whereas discussion would seem to me a bit more effective.

[muhammad287]

Assalamu Alaikum,

Very interesting discussion and some relevant points raised. I feel it is important to equip our kids to deal with society we live in and giving them the tools and the understanding to be good practicing Muslims.
I have been doing some research and I stumbled upon this course being run. I will post details below, I have not seen anything like it or anything aimed the same way and I when I saw this thread I thought I should post the info
Wassalam

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[muslim1812]

Salam brother muhammad287, is there a website for this at all or just a number? and where is this based? looks too good to be true!

[Musalman]

Salaam

Welcome to the forum .

I read there are many mosques in the west now and they arrange Quran classes on week days. Parents should take kids to attend those classes , attend Jummah salat and try to keep kids away from TV . They must teach them to take good from west and abandon the evil.

If parents themselves are good Muslims ,InshaAllah kids will follow their footsteps.

That`s a good reply. I think watching good islamic channels on T.V won`t be a bad idea.

[Aishath]

I actually consider my parents my friends

I love this. Same for me as well, but with my mom since I live with her. I was really losing my way and was at a risk of losing my way out of the Dheen even but insha Allah, I talked to my mom and she helped me get back on track with God's guidance and Will. And now she is my best friend really. I can talk to her about anything and I know that she might get angry or upset but she will never judge me harshly and will always be on my side 100%. It's a great feeling. I didn't grow up in the West but I have been living here for 4.5 years now studying and I find it really difficult not living with Muslims. I can't even clarify doubts like food purity without having to resort to the forum or websites.

Sorry probably not relevant at all.