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aadil77
12-18-2010, 09:37 PM


poor guys, desperately trying to avoid conflict
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GuestFellow
12-18-2010, 11:06 PM
:sl:

Thank you for posting this video. The speaker spoke eloquently and within 41 minutes, destroyed the propaganda western mainstream media had presented for years about the Taliban. It even cleared some of my misconceptions too.
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ChargerCarl
12-19-2010, 03:29 AM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
:sl:

Thank you for posting this video. The speaker spoke eloquently and within 41 minutes, destroyed the propaganda western mainstream media had presented for years about the Taliban. It even cleared some of my misconceptions too.
'

How do you know what he's saying isn't propaganda?
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Rafeeq
12-19-2010, 07:17 AM
Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
'

How do you know what he's saying isn't propaganda?
Why we always like to believe what media tells us? These poor people are making proganda whereas americans are quite true. Come on, after these many years of 9/11, things are clear and bright like sun.
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ChargerCarl
12-19-2010, 07:39 AM
You didn't answer the question.
Reply

Tyrion
12-19-2010, 09:24 AM
I'm not sure why, but it seems like a lot of members here blindly support the Taliban, and take every opportunity to show how amazingly Muslim and misunderstood they are... I'm not going to take a side here since I don't know all that much about the actual Taliban, but the thing is, I'm pretty sure most people here don't have a lot of actual experience with the Taliban either, and yet we find vehement supporters everywhere... All I do know (and I've mentioned this before) is that some people from Afghanistan have some pretty horrific tales regarding the Taliban, and that should be enough to at least show some of you that perhaps we can't be so quick to completely support them...

Again, I'm not taking a side. (I've learned that that's probably not a very smart thing to do here) I understand that whatever stories I might hear might not represent ALL of the Taliban, but I'm just kind of tired of the blind support, and the aggressive behavior directed at those who bring up points that are against the Taliban...

[And no, I didn't watch the video... But the things I said were more general anyway, so it's okay. :p I'll watch it eventually.]
Reply

GuestFellow
12-19-2010, 12:33 PM
Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
'

How do you know what he's saying isn't propaganda?
Read history books, keep up with the news everyday, watch documentaries and listen to lectures. That is what I do. You will find that the government version of events does not make sense and there are inconsistencies. The mainstream media has not presented both
sides of the story, especially in America.

Tyrion

I'm not sure why, but it seems like a lot of members here blindly support the Taliban,
:sl:

No, not blind support. Like I mentioned earlier, read history books, watch documentaries, keep a eye on the news and listen to lectures. This will help.

Again, I'm not taking a side. (I've learned that that's probably not a very smart thing to do here) I understand that whatever stories I might hear might not represent ALL of the Taliban, but I'm just kind of tired of the blind support, and the aggressive behavior directed at those who bring up points that are against the Taliban...
I have yet to see aggressive behavior directed at those who are against the Taliban on this forum.
Reply

purple
12-19-2010, 12:37 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrion
I'm not sure why, but it seems like a lot of members here blindly support the Taliban, and take every opportunity to show how amazingly Muslim and misunderstood they are... I'm not going to take a side here since I don't know all that much about the actual Taliban, but the thing is, I'm pretty sure most people here don't have a lot of actual experience with the Taliban either, and yet we find vehement supporters everywhere... All I do know (and I've mentioned this before) is that some people from Afghanistan have some pretty horrific tales regarding the Taliban, and that should be enough to at least show some of you that perhaps we can't be so quick to completely support them...

Again, I'm not taking a side. (I've learned that that's probably not a very smart thing to do here) I understand that whatever stories I might hear might not represent ALL of the Taliban, but I'm just kind of tired of the blind support, and the aggressive behavior directed at those who bring up points that are against the Taliban...

[And no, I didn't watch the video... But the things I said were more general anyway, so it's okay. :p I'll watch it eventually.]
:sl:

I agree with you.
:wa:
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aadil77
12-19-2010, 12:56 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrion
[And no, I didn't watch the video... But the things I said were more general anyway, so it's okay. :p I'll watch it eventually.]
Thats why you shouldn't have replied till you watched it, the guy himself admits they're not perfect and that they need to change their policies

and the main thing that everyone on this forum will support (not sure about you) is the right for them to defend their land from invasion
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Muslimah099
12-19-2010, 05:36 PM
It's right to defend their land, no doubt.
But they should defend their land within Islamic guidelines.
Not everything they take responsibility for follows Islam.
Reply

Rafeeq
12-19-2010, 05:52 PM
Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
You still didn't answer my question.
I see this technique is widely used on the forums i.e. ignoring the answer but keep on telling, my quetion is not answered. It was answered by brother Guestfellow that if you keep an eye on daily news and history, you might not ask how it is not propeganda.
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GuestFellow
12-19-2010, 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
You still didn't answer my question.
I don't care.
Reply

-Fallen Angel-
12-19-2010, 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
You still didn't answer my question.
Go away troll.

Anyways, the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq is unjustified and to this day there is no valid reason. We're told it's to "help the people" but i'm sorry, millions are dying from diseases these people have created in the rest of Asia and Africa and they don't get any help?.. It's much cheaper and more peaceful to spread a vaccine than kill innocents every day wtih drones and missiles. False flag attacks have been used throughout the history to justify actions of true terror and tyrany, and things like 9/11 are no different. If people continue to turn the other cheek and choose to believe the mainstream media then they are only living in ignorance and fear, really. The people the Media brands as "terorists", "militants" and whatever else are just regular people. I mean after all, if you're dead, you can't contest that you're innocent.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-19-2010, 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrion
I'm not sure why, but it seems like a lot of members here blindly support the Taliban, and take every opportunity to show how amazingly Muslim and misunderstood they are... I'm not going to take a side here since I don't know all that much about the actual Taliban, but the thing is, I'm pretty sure most people here don't have a lot of actual experience with the Taliban either, and yet we find vehement supporters everywhere... All I do know (and I've mentioned this before) is that some people from Afghanistan have some pretty horrific tales regarding the Taliban, and that should be enough to at least show some of you that perhaps we can't be so quick to completely support them...

Again, I'm not taking a side. (I've learned that that's probably not a very smart thing to do here) I understand that whatever stories I might hear might not represent ALL of the Taliban, but I'm just kind of tired of the blind support, and the aggressive behavior directed at those who bring up points that are against the Taliban...

[And no, I didn't watch the video... But the things I said were more general anyway, so it's okay. :p I'll watch it eventually.]
Asalaamu Alaikum, the fact is the only stories that you are ever likely to hear about the Taliban will be extremely bias ones aimed at branding the Taliban to be like wild animals who lock women up at home and still live in prehistoric times. We all know the media is controlled by zionists and it is they along with America who are funding these illegal wars to achieve their ultimate agenda.

The fact is the Taliban are just normal people who are trying to defend their home and people and if they have no right to do that then nor have you or me to defend our own homes against intrudors.
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Lynx
12-19-2010, 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrion
I'm not sure why, but it seems like a lot of members here blindly support the Taliban, and take every opportunity to show how amazingly Muslim and misunderstood they are... I'm not going to take a side here since I don't know all that much about the actual Taliban, but the thing is, I'm pretty sure most people here don't have a lot of actual experience with the Taliban either, and yet we find vehement supporters everywhere... All I do know (and I've mentioned this before) is that some people from Afghanistan have some pretty horrific tales regarding the Taliban, and that should be enough to at least show some of you that perhaps we can't be so quick to completely support them...

Again, I'm not taking a side. (I've learned that that's probably not a very smart thing to do here) I understand that whatever stories I might hear might not represent ALL of the Taliban, but I'm just kind of tired of the blind support, and the aggressive behavior directed at those who bring up points that are against the Taliban...

[And no, I didn't watch the video... But the things I said were more general anyway, so it's okay. :p I'll watch it eventually.]

this is well said.

also, a spokesperson from the taliban is just about as credible as a spokesperson from the whitehouse.

The fact is the Taliban are just normal people who are trying to defend their home and people and if they have no right to do that then nor have you or me to defend our own homes against intrudors.
i think you mean The Fact is the taliban are another example of unwanted foreign interference in afghanistan just like NATO, the Russians, the British, alexander the great, genghis khan, etc.
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aadil77
12-19-2010, 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by Lynx
i think you mean The Fact is the taliban are another example of unwanted foreign interference in afghanistan just like NATO, the Russians, the British, alexander the great, genghis khan, etc.
even if we were to pretend that the thousands of taliban present in afghanistan are from foreign countries, The Fact is muslims are not seen as foreigners in muslim lands
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Hamza Asadullah
12-19-2010, 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by Lynx
this is well said.

also, a spokesperson from the taliban is just about as credible as a spokesperson from the whitehouse.



i think you mean The Fact is the taliban are another example of unwanted foreign interference in afghanistan just like NATO, the Russians, the British, alexander the great, genghis khan, etc.
The only insurgants and unwanted foreigners in Afghanistan are Nato, British and American forces. It is they who are not wanted and it is the media who decievingly portray that the Taliban are somehow not wanted in Afghanistan when it is they who gave stability to Afghanistan just like Saddam gave stability to Iraq. It is proven now that Iraq is now worse off than it ever was and was much better under Saddam.

The allied forces will only ever make Afghanistan more unstable that it is now. Do not be fooled thinking that they are their to "free" a nation just like the media portrayed when they were in Iraq and look at Iraq now does it seem free to you?

We must wake up and stop being fooled by the media for the media will never portray the true reality only the reality the zionists want to portray for they are only in Afghanistan to achieve their own agenda not for the reasons they will give to the public.
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purple
12-19-2010, 08:33 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Asalaamu Alaikum, the fact is the only stories that you are ever likely to hear about the Taliban will be extremely bias ones aimed at branding the Taliban to be like wild animals who lock women up at home and still live in prehistoric times. We all know the media is controlled by zionists and it is they along with America who are funding these illegal wars to achieve their ultimate agenda.

The fact is the Taliban are just normal people who are trying to defend their home and people and if they have no right to do that then nor have you or me to defend our own homes against intrudors.
:sl:
Says who? You?

The fact is NONE of us know who the Taliban are. The fact is none of us has ever met Taliban. The fact is none of us have experienced occupation under the Taliban. And Tyion is talking about some of those who have experience occupation under the Taliban.

Nor do we know whether they are actually fighting for their own people.

Who is the Taliban? Are Pakistani Taliban the same as Afghanistan Taliban? If so, committing suicide in Pakistan killing many Muslims is hardly defending your religion or land.

I and Tyion are NOT naive enough to support a group we don’t know, never met or experienced. No where have I seen Tyion wrote that he support western war in Afghanistan and Iraq or western media.

I am very much against the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. That does not mean I have to support Taliban.
:wa:
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purple
12-19-2010, 08:36 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
The only insurgants and unwanted foreigners in Afghanistan are Nato, British and American forces. It is they who are not wanted and it is the media who decievingly portray that the Taliban are somehow not wanted in Afghanistan when it is they who gave stability to Afghanistan just like Saddam gave stability to Iraq. It is proven now that Iraq is now worse off than it ever was and was much better under Saddam.

The allied forces will only ever make Afghanistan more unstable that it is now. Do not be fooled thinking that they are their to "free" a nation just like the media portrayed when they were in Iraq and look at Iraq now does it seem free to you?

We must wake up and stop being fooled by the media for the media will never portray the true reality only the reality the zionists want to portray for they are only in Afghanistan to achieve their own agenda not for the reasons they will give to the public.
Saddam gave stability to Iraq? Subhanallah
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Hamza Asadullah
12-19-2010, 08:41 PM
Originally Posted by Ubah
:sl:
Says who? You?

The fact is NONE of us know who the Taliban are. The fact is none of us has ever met Taliban. The fact is none of us have experienced occupation under the Taliban. And Tyion is taking some of those who have experience occupation under the Taliban.
Nor do we know whether they are actually fighting for their own people.
Who is the Taliban? Are Pakistani Taliban the same as Afghanistan Taliban? If so, committing suicide in Pakistan killing many Muslims is hardly defending your religion or land.
I and Tyion are NOT naive enough to support a group we don’t know, never met or experienced. No where have I seen Tyion wrote that he support western war in Afghanistan and Iraq or western media.
I am very much against the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. That does not mean I have to support Taliban.
:wa:
Asalaamu Alaikum, Sister if you wish to remain neutral then why did you state that it was Taliban who are setting off suicide bombs in Pakistan? Did you get that from the media? If you wish to remain neutral then do not attribute suicide bombing to the Taliban if you do not know for certain whether it was them or not.

It is very easy for anyone to commit an atrocity and blame it on a group of people. This is a very old tactic and one which is used very successfully.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-19-2010, 08:49 PM
Originally Posted by Ubah
Saddam gave stability to Iraq? Subhanallah
Sister we should ralways research properly before coming to conclusions about anything. We should also never blindly take from the media. Do you think US forces has given Iraq any stability? Iraq is now more unstable than it ever was and the west actually admit to this. Saddam having weapons of mass destruction was only ever an excuse to go into Iraq in the first place and in the end there never was any weapons of mass destruction therefore attacking Iraq and killing over a million people was all for nothing - Actually it was all for achieving their own agenda.

Iraq more unstable now, Bush concedes

http://findarticles.com/p/news-artic.../ai_n42957480/
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جوري
12-19-2010, 09:55 PM
all this propaganda is utterly unnecessary, America will meet a similar fate in Afghanistan as the Russians did before it, as the British did before it, as the Mongols did before as Alexander did before..

Afghanistan is the grave yard of empires:
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articl...ard-of-empires

a little smear campaign against the Taliban will not have any impact at all, whether or not there are Muslims who are jumping on that evil axis Taliban bandwagon.
America's ego is colossal and its fall there will be very painful..

you can't take away something from people who have absolutely nothing except their strong convictions!

:w:
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Lynx
12-19-2010, 10:03 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
even if we were to pretend that the thousands of taliban present in afghanistan are from foreign countries, The Fact is muslims are not seen as foreigners in muslim lands
first, i can think of at least one source that makes the claim that most taliban members were not native afghanis. second, YOU might think it's okay for the taliban to invade Muslims lands but a) you are ignorant of the political & nationalistic agenda that surrounds the taliban and b) the most important group of people to ask whether the taliban are unwanted foreigners is by asking the afghan people themselves. and so you can think about this on your own don't forget that if the afghan people don't want USA or NATO in afghanistan it does not follow that the Taliban are wanted instead.


The only insurgants and unwanted foreigners in Afghanistan are Nato, British and
American forces.
And I am adding the Taliban to the list unwanted foreigners in Afghanistan.

It is they who are not wanted and it is the media who decievingly portray that the Taliban are somehow not wanted in Afghanistan
You're probably part of the same group of Muslims and people that did not know the Taliban existed until Sept 11. This might come as a shock to you but the Taliban have had a bad reputation before the WTC got blown up and this is not limited to Western News.

when it is they who gave stability to Afghanistan just like Saddam gave stability to Iraq. It is proven now that Iraq is now worse off than it ever was and was much better under Saddam.
This might explain why Muslim countries are falling apart; it takes more than just law and order to get a country out of ruins; you need to build up infrastructure and economy. Do you think the Taliban were capable of this? 'cause I'll bet they thought Afghanistan would get better if they prayed hard enough.

oh and I don't know why you keep mentioning Iraq. Iraq is a different country that doesn't even border Afghanistan...their situations are not analogous at all.
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Trumble
12-19-2010, 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by Muslimah099
It's right to defend their land, no doubt.
Defend their 'land' from who? The war is about political control in Afghanistan, not space to graze livestock and grow vegetables (or opium poppies come to that). Those who actually own and use the land would like nothing more than both Taliban and their enemies to just go away and leave them to get on with the farming.
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جوري
12-19-2010, 11:23 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
Defend their 'land' from who? The war is about political control in Afghanistan, not space to graze livestock and grow vegetables (or opium poppies come to that). Those who actually own and use the land would like nothing more than both Taliban and their enemies to just go away and leave them to get on with the farming.

I am utterly amused at how many of you speak on behalf of the afghans as if you were natives and surveyed its people directly of their wants . Even if the Taliban were the horrible monstrosity that the west makes them out to be, it still wouldn't justify years on end of wars and illegal occupation 'poppy' or not.. I can only wish more death and destruction upon those foreign forces descending down on Afghanistan and I am certain that they'll all meet a similar fate as history has so far revealed.
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Ansariyah
12-19-2010, 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by Ubah
:sl:
Says who? You?

The fact is NONE of us know who the Taliban are. The fact is none of us has ever met Taliban. The fact is none of us have experienced occupation under the Taliban. And Tyion is talking about some of those who have experience occupation under the Taliban.

Nor do we know whether they are actually fighting for their own people.

Who is the Taliban? Are Pakistani Taliban the same as Afghanistan Taliban? If so, committing suicide in Pakistan killing many Muslims is hardly defending your religion or land.

I and Tyion are NOT naive enough to support a group we don’t know, never met or experienced. No where have I seen Tyion wrote that he support western war in Afghanistan and Iraq or western media.

I am very much against the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. That does not mean I have to support Taliban.
:wa:
Talk is cheap.

1. Do Question wat ur Zionist'Owned'Media tells u. 2. Make excuses for ur fellow Muslims. 3. Ever heard of Yvonne ridley? Incase u havent. Shes the intelligent woman who got captured by the taliban in Afghanistan who ended up accepting islam.:)

The name of her book is called 'In the hands of the taliban'.

Heres our sista Yvonne ridley speaking of the Taliban...

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GuestFellow
12-19-2010, 11:53 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Ubah
Saddam gave stability to Iraq?
Saddam was not a good leader but there was some stability. You do not have to be a supporter of Saddam to acknowledge that the country was stable before 2003.

Originally Posted by Lynx
first, i can think of at least one source that makes the claim that most taliban members were not native afghanis.
Evidence please.

second, YOU might think it's okay for the taliban to invade Muslims lands
So the Taliban invaded Afghanistan? Source?

but a) you are ignorant of the political & nationalistic agenda that surrounds the taliban
Nationalistic? I'm curious, if the members of the Taliban were not native Afghans, then which country are their loyal to?

b) the most important group of people to ask whether the taliban are unwanted foreigners is by asking the afghan people themselves. and so you can think about this on your own don't forget that if the afghan people don't want USA or NATO in afghanistan it does not follow that the Taliban are wanted instead.
I get the impression that you seem to speak for the Afghan people.

And I am adding the Taliban to the list unwanted foreigners in Afghanistan.
Who does not want the Taliban in Afghanistan? Evidence.

it takes more than just law and order to get a country out of ruins; you need to build up infrastructure and economy. Do you think the Taliban were capable of this?
It could take years for a country to develop, especially after a series of wars. If America had not attacked Afghanistan, we could have seen whether the Taliban were successful or not.

Originally Posted by Lynx
, a spokesperson from the taliban is just about as credible as a spokesperson from the whitehouse.
Did you watch the video? In fact, do you know who was even speaking?

i think you mean The Fact is the taliban are another example of unwanted foreign interference in afghanistan
Well please do present evidence for this...FACT. x_x

Originally Posted by Ubah
The fact is NONE of us know who the Taliban are. The fact is none of us has ever met Taliban. The fact is none of us have experienced occupation under the Taliban. And Tyion is talking about some of those who have experience occupation under the Taliban.
Brother Tyrion did not even watch the video and there is a possibility he might change his mind after he watched the video. In fact, he has not been able to back up his claims about the stories he heard.

True, none of us have met the Taliban nor lived under the Taliban regime. Therefore, we rely on lectures, books, articles and documentaries to give us an idea. Watching the video is a good starting point...of course, you can decide whether you believe him or not.

Nor do we know whether they are actually fighting for their own people.
Who are they fighting for then?

That does not mean I have to support Taliban.
No one is telling you to support the Taliban. :x

Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

I am utterly amused at how many of you speak on behalf of the afghans as if you were natives and surveyed its people directly of their wants.
Same here.
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Grace Seeker
12-20-2010, 04:01 AM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
We all know the media is controlled by zionists and it is they along with America who are funding these illegal wars to achieve their ultimate agenda.
Now who is buying into propoganda?
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Grace Seeker
12-20-2010, 04:06 AM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
It is very easy for anyone to commit an atrocity and blame it on a group of people. This is a very old tactic and one which is used very successfully.
You mean like here:
Originally Posted by Hamza81
It is proven now that Iraq is now worse off than it ever was and was much better under Saddam.
Reply

Lynx
12-20-2010, 05:25 AM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
:sl:


Evidence please.

Taliban ranks furthermore continue to be filled with Pakistani nationals (an estimated 20-40 percent of Taliban soldiers are Pakistani according to the document) http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB227/

#30
this figure is not including chechnyan and arab soldiers and whatever else stuck around after the soviets were kicked out.


So the Taliban invaded Afghanistan? Source?
how do you think they got power? they took it by force and have been at war with other factions for power.

Nationalistic? I'm curious, if the members of the Taliban were not native Afghans, then which country are their loyal to?
The taliban are part of an ongoing pakistani initiative to gain control of that region; the warlord gulbideen hekmatyar was a previous attempt gone rogue.

I get the impression that you seem to speak for the Afghan people.
I don't, but their opinion is most important. Taliban supporters on the other hand don't seem to care.

Who does not want the Taliban in Afghanistan? Evidence.
There's a sizeable population in the north that has been fighting off the taliban since their coup so there's one group.

It could take years for a country to develop, especially after a series of wars. If America had not attacked Afghanistan, we could have seen whether the Taliban were successful or not.
Yeah maybe, but I doubt that it would be likely since most of them seem to come from madrassas..
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جوري
12-20-2010, 05:50 AM
Originally Posted by Lynx
them seem to come from madrassas.
all educated people go to madrassas.. does Madrasa have different meaning for you westerners than it does us? If so then perhaps all your perpetual unending nonsense is best aimed at an audience of your peers? It is just comical..

one can take any portion of your post and comment endlessly on how much is wrong with it .. that is if one wishes to waste their time.. taking your enraptured closing statement and enjoying the fatuity of it will suffice.

all the best
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Lynx
12-20-2010, 07:56 AM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

all educated people go to madrassas.. does Madrasa have different meaning for you westerners than it does us? If so then perhaps all your perpetual unending nonsense is best aimed at an audience of your peers? It is just comical..

one can take any portion of your post and comment endlessly on how much is wrong with it .. that is if one wishes to waste their time.. taking your enraptured closing statement and enjoying the fatuity of it will suffice.

all the best
okay okay this might come as a shock to you...but sometimes, the meaning of the word is changed slightly under different contexts ! so although madrassa might mean school in a general context, the context that i was using madrassa in is to refer to the littlle religious shacks that taliban kids go to until theyre in their mid teens at which point they are shipped off to afghanistan. don't you ever get tired from not thinking before posting?
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-Fallen Angel-
12-20-2010, 12:02 PM
Originally Posted by Lynx
okay okay this might come as a shock to you...but sometimes, the meaning of the word is changed slightly under different contexts ! so although madrassa might mean school in a general context, the context that i was using madrassa in is to refer to the littlle religious shacks that taliban kids go to until theyre in their mid teens at which point they are shipped off to afghanistan. don't you ever get tired from not thinking before posting?
Wow, way to generalize things. Quite evident you're speaking out of ignorance rather than facts. I've never been sent to a madrassa but i know people who have and none of them turned into"taliban kids" and got sent off to Afghanistan.. I think more and more the Media encourages people to not send their children to have a proper Islamic education, and then there are those who actually believe these things that the media and others perpetuate. The only reason you're bringing this hate is because NATO, the US and UK governments are failing in Afghanistan and you would rather blame that on Islam. Just to let you know, more soldiers take their own lives than get killed by Taliban. I wonder why, is it because they are drugged up so they can stay happy and kill eithout feeling bad, or because they can't live with the fact that they are, and have to, kill innocent men, women and children, you tell me. But i guess it's all Islam's fault because children are sent to Madrassas to become "Taliban kids" and thus for this reason the US and the rest of them had to invade..
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Trumble
12-20-2010, 12:15 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
even if we were to pretend that the thousands of taliban present in afghanistan are from foreign countries, The Fact is muslims are not seen as foreigners in muslim lands
If they arrive carrying cameras, maybe (unless they are Palestinian, of course). If they arrive carrying AK47s and a price on their head, just possibly not.:rolleyes:
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جوري
12-20-2010, 02:50 PM
Originally Posted by Lynx
okay okay this might come as a shock to you...but sometimes, the meaning of the word is changed slightly under different contexts ! so although madrassa might mean school in a general context, the context that i was using madrassa in is to refer to the littlle religious shacks that taliban kids go to until theyre in their mid teens at which point they are shipped off to afghanistan. don't you ever get tired from not thinking before posting?

I am not shocked by your ignorance-No!.. but if you are going to put your own spin on an Arabic term again do it with like minded fools if you wish for it to simply slide by and not be ridiculed for it (although everything you write is indeed worthy of ridicule for those with the time).. Also do you have anything against religious schools? And again another adequate assessment of yourself.. for surely if you actually reflected on before you write you'd not be making one blunder after the next and then come back with one futile effort after the next to save face and tweak meanings!

all the best
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aadil77
12-20-2010, 05:25 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
If they arrive carrying cameras, maybe (unless they are Palestinian, of course). If they arrive carrying AK47s and a price on their head, just possibly not.:rolleyes:
If they arrive carrying AK47s and a price on their head, willing to rid the nation of a corrupt puppet goverment and non-muslim warmongerers, then they'd be even more welcome.

This is why the taliban still exist, the people want them, they support them and send their kids to join them.
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جوري
12-20-2010, 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Watcher888
Who to believe? And I do not support any war!

your unreferenced sources of course!



celebration is universal .. here we have Jews celebrating the death of Gaza children in the way of Yahweh..

all the best
Reply

GuestFellow
12-20-2010, 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by Lynx
Taliban ranks furthermore continue to be filled with Pakistani nationals (an estimated 20-40 percent of Taliban soldiers are Pakistani according to the document) http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB227/
What about remaining 60%?

Taliban ranks furthermore continue to be filled with Pakistani nationals (an estimated 20-40 percent of Taliban soldiers are Pakistani according to the document), which further solidifies Pakistan-Taliban relations, even though this does not indicate not outward or official Pakistani government support. Osama bin Laden is mentioned as supporting pro-Taliban Arab fighters from an office in Herat.
Just because there are Taliban soldiers who happen to be Pakistani, does not necessarily mean that the Pakistani government supports them.

how do you think they got power? they took it by force and have been at war with other factions for power.
Yes, but I want evidence. I would like more detail.

The taliban are part of an ongoing pakistani initiative to gain control of that region; the warlord gulbideen hekmatyarwas a previous attempt gone rogue
.

Why would Pakistan would like to gain control of that region? Oh evidence for this too.


There's a sizeable population in the north that has been fighting off the taliban since their coup so there's one group.
Source...

Yeah maybe, but I doubt that it would be likely since most of them seem to come from madrassas..
So? You can be educated at Oxford University but it does not mean you are fit to govern a country. Though being educated can be a good basis to get into politics.

I'm not entirely sure but what are you trying to prove exactly? That the Afghan people do not support the Taliban?
Reply

GuestFellow
12-20-2010, 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Now who is buying into propoganda?
What propaganda?

Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
You mean like here:
Your point?

Originally Posted by Lynx
so although madrassa might mean school in a general context, the context that i was using madrassa in is to refer to the littlle religious shacks that taliban kids go to until theyre in their mid teens at which point they are shipped off to afghanistan.
How do you know?

don't you ever get tired from not thinking before posting?
^o) You must be really tired at this rate.
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-20-2010, 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by Lynx
okay okay this might come as a shock to you...but sometimes, the meaning of the word is changed slightly under different contexts ! so although madrassa might mean school in a general context, the context that i was using madrassa in is to refer to the littlle religious shacks that taliban kids go to until theyre in their mid teens at which point they are shipped off to afghanistan. don't you ever get tired from not thinking before posting?
This might also come as a shock to you but the media will never truly tell you the full truth in context about the invasions of Afghanistan or Iraq for they will tell you their own created "truth". It is very clear to all that you know nothing about the people in Afghanistan apart from what you read in the papers or on the news and you make it out like you know exactly what the Afghan people want. How much more do you want to expose your flawed and baseless arguments?
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-20-2010, 09:22 PM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Now who is buying into propoganda?
So anything that is not reported in the media is propoganda? Just like when the media reported that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction? Just like the dossier for going to war in the first place was over exaturated. Oh none of that is propoganda because the media reported it right? One should wake up and open ones eyes and realise that the media will never tell you the full and true reality of a given situation.

The fact that much of the media is controlled by zionists and that they decide what content goes into the news is very well known. For you it may be propoganda but for us it is reality. Maybe you should also wake up into reality. In the real world things are not always as they seem.
Reply

purple
12-20-2010, 10:54 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Asalaamu Alaikum, Sister if you wish to remain neutral then why did you state that it was Taliban who are setting off suicide bombs in Pakistan? Did you get that from the media? If you wish to remain neutral then do not attribute suicide bombing to the Taliban if you do not know for certain whether it was them or not.

It is very easy for anyone to commit an atrocity and blame it on a group of people. This is a very old tactic and one which is used very successfully.
:sl:
Actually it was not the west that said Taliban committed some of the suicide in Pakistan. They (Pakistan Taliban) themselves admitted it. Whether Pakistan Taliban is the same as Taliban in Afghanistan, then I don’t know.
:wa:
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-20-2010, 10:57 PM
Originally Posted by Ubah
:sl:
Actually it was not the west that said Taliban committed some of the suicide in Pakistan. They (Pakistan Taliban) themselves admitted it. Whether Pakistan Taliban is the same as Taliban in Afghanistan, then I don’t know.
:wa:
Asalaamu Alaikum, if you are unsure of a matter then it is best not to assume and comment on it.
Reply

purple
12-20-2010, 11:01 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Asalaamu Alaikum, Sister if you wish to remain neutral then why did you state that it was Taliban who are setting off suicide bombs in Pakistan? Did you get that from the media? If you wish to remain neutral then do not attribute suicide bombing to the Taliban if you do not know for certain whether it was them or not.

It is very easy for anyone to commit an atrocity and blame it on a group of people. This is a very old tactic and one which is used very successfully.
I already know all what you have written and I agree. But does not mean Iraq was stable under Saddam, it just gotten worse. Again that does not mean it was close to stability under Saddam. Saddam, well what do you want me to say about him?
Saddam never brought stability to Iraq.
Reply

purple
12-20-2010, 11:04 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Asalaamu Alaikum, if you are unsure of a matter then it is best not to assume and comment on it.

And how comes you are so sure?

I simply never going to support Taliban. I think you should just respect that.
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-20-2010, 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by Ubah
I already know all what you have written and I agree. But does not mean Iraq was stable under Saddam, it just gotten worse. Again that does not mean it was close to stability under Saddam. Saddam, well what do you want me to say about him?
Saddam never brought stability to Iraq.
Really? Care to give us some proof and sources?
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-20-2010, 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by Ubah
And how comes you are so sure?

I simply never going to support Taliban. I think you should just respect that.
Its called research you should try it some time rather than blindly take in everything the media says to you.
Reply

purple
12-20-2010, 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by Yanoorah
Talk is cheap.

1. Do Question wat ur Zionist'Owned'Media tells u. 2. Make excuses for ur fellow Muslims. 3. Ever heard of Yvonne ridley? Incase u havent. Shes the intelligent woman who got captured by the taliban in Afghanistan who ended up accepting islam.:)

The name of her book is called 'In the hands of the taliban'.

Heres our sista Yvonne ridley speaking of the Taliban...


Seriously can Muslims stop using the "Zionist media" line, it getting irritating now?

Do you question what this woman tells you? Or simply blow down to anyone that calls themselves a "muslim". Well if that is the case, then I am sure you do not mind listening "Muslim" who experienced occupation under Taliban, who happen to say exact opposite to this lady. Or is is that only”Muslim" who happen to say the side you like is truthfully and honest. They are the one that deserve "excuses" but "Muslim" who speaks out against Taliban do not deserve excuses. Firstly I do not know if the Taliban are bad people and I simply choose not to support them but I am also not against them because I happen to make "excuses" to both sides (the Taliban and Muslims who are against them).
Reply

جوري
12-20-2010, 11:26 PM
Originally Posted by Ubah
Seriously can Muslims stop using the "Zionist media" line, it getting irritating now? Do you question what this woman tells you?

what lines would you like to have used so we can cater to your sensibilities? please write them in advance so we can inject them along the path you tread! also 'this lady' happens to have been a celebrated journalist who was taken into captivity by the 'evil taliban' a strange effect they must have had on her with their satanic uneducated ways.. have you dealt with any Taliban at all to know which side of the story one should adhere to?

Originally Posted by Ubah
I am also not against them
yeah Ok!
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-20-2010, 11:29 PM
Originally Posted by Ubah
Seriously can Muslims stop using the "Zionist media" line, it getting irritating now?

Do you question what this woman tells you? Or simply blow down to anyone that calls themselves a "muslim". Well if that is the case, then I am sure you do not mind listening "Muslim" who experienced occupation under Taliban, who happen to say exact opposite to this lady. Or is is that only”Muslim" who happen to say the side you like is truthfully and honest. They are the one that deserve "excuses" but "Muslim" who speaks out against Taliban do not deserve excuses. Firstly I do not know if the Taliban are bad people and I simply choose not to support them but I am also not against them because I happen to make "excuses" to both sides (the Taliban and Muslims who are against them).
Seriously can you also stop making up your own assumptions about Muslims when you have already confirmed you do not know anything about them.

You have confirmed over and over again that you do not know anything about the Taliban yet you have already stated that they are suicide bombers and that you choose not to support them. That does'nt make any sense?

Why is it that you do not have a single good word to say about your Muslim brothers and sisters yet you are quick to agree with exactly what the media portray about them? That is a Very sad state of affairs i must say when Muslims slander other Muslims. You should be ashamed.

It is about time that you stop assuming things about the Taliban and Iraq when you have already confirmed you don't know anything about these matters and that you should actually do some research otherwise it is pointless having a conversation with a brickwall. Open your eyes and wake up to reality. We are not in a dream world and not everything is as it seems.
Reply

purple
12-20-2010, 11:29 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Its called research you should try it some time rather than blindly take in everything the media says to you.
I can find research that says the exact same opposite. Research does not mean you personally know these people, research does not mean you personally experience these people.
Research to you means sitting behind a computer listening or reading other people experiences from youtube or googleing.
I as Muslim will not support Taliban especially if there are doubts that they may have oppressed their own people or may not be following Islamic guidelines.
And I wish you and other Muslims would just respect that. And STOP excusing us of being blinded by “Zionist” or “western media” or in some cases calling us (the Muslims that do not support Taliban) “moderate” Muslim which is an insult like we are less of a Muslim then you.
If you do feel strongly about Taliban, how about making duas to guide me to the truth.
For me that is the end of the matter, I cannot keep up with replies as I do have children to attend to during the school holiday. Goodbye
Reply

جوري
12-20-2010, 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Why is it that you do not have a single good word to say about your Muslim brothers and sisters yet you are quick to agree with exactly what the media portray about them? That is a Very sad state of affairs i must say when Muslims slander other Muslims.

I have to agree... it is better to simply change ones way of life than live like a hypocrite!

:w:
Reply

GuestFellow
12-20-2010, 11:33 PM
Originally Posted by Ubah
Do you question what this woman tells you?
:sl:

Did you watch the video?

Or simply blow down to anyone that calls themselves a "muslim".
No. There are Muslims that lie.

Well if that is the case, then I am sure you do not mind listening "Muslim" who experienced occupation under Taliban, who happen to say exact opposite to this lady.
Present the evidence then.

I simply choose not to support them but I am also not against them because I happen to make "excuses" to both sides (the Taliban and Muslims who are against them).
What?
Reply

purple
12-20-2010, 11:36 PM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ


what lines would you like to have used so we can cater to your sensibilities? please write them in advance so we can inject them along the path you tread! also 'this lady' happens to have been a celebrated journalist who was taken into captivity by the 'evil taliban' a strange effect they must have had on her with their satanic uneducated ways.. have you dealt with any Taliban at all to know which side of the story one should adhere to?



yeah Ok!
:sl:
No need to be so rude.

One lady who “happen to be taken into captivity” by the “evil Taliban” (love how you put words into my written which I have not expressed thus far!) vs. How many people who experienced the Taliban? Keep counting..
I am sure this lady opinion and experience is far more valuable than some “uneducated” burn, beaten women or men who speak out against the Taliban!
And you young lady happen to “unbiased” yourself!
I still stand that I am not really against the Taliban but sure will not support them!
Goodbye!

:wa:
Reply

جوري
12-20-2010, 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by Ubah
:sl:
No need to be so rude.
In fact we were being exceptionally accommodating!

One lady who “happen to be taken into captivity” by the “evil Taliban” (love how you put words into my written which I have not expressed thus far!) vs. How many people who experienced the Taliban? Keep counting..
I am sure this lady opinion and experience is far more valuable than some “uneducated” burn, beaten women or men who speak out against the Taliban!
And you young lady happen to “unbiased” yourself!
I still stand that I am not really against the Taliban but sure will not support them!
Goodbye!

:wa:
Do you have something to impart besides emotive speech and last 'corporate' news refuse? Again, I think we're all eagerly awaiting your case series report on the observed effect physical and emotional of those living under 'Taliban rule' -- until then I think what you write is fair game to anyone here to dismantle with minor effort!

all the best
Reply

purple
12-20-2010, 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Seriously can you also stop making up your own assumptions about Muslims when you have already confirmed you do not know anything about them.

You have confirmed over and over again that you do not know anything about the Taliban yet you have already stated that they are suicide bombers and that you choose not to support them. That does'nt make any sense?

Why is it that you do not have a single good word to say about your Muslim brothers and sisters yet you are quick to agree with exactly what the media portray about them? That is a Very sad state of affairs i must say when Muslims slander other Muslims. You should be ashamed.

It is about time that you stop assuming things about the Taliban and Iraq when you have already confirmed you don't know anything about these matters and that you should actually do some research otherwise it is pointless having a conversation with a brickwall. Open your eyes and wake up to reality. We are not in a dream world and not everything is as it seems.
I do know anything about them neither do you!

I only stated what they have already admitted to!

Actually I rather talk to the lady in the video posted then someone like you who happen to only watch youtube videos of Taliban and have not actually spoken to them. I know there two side to every story and the truth!
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-20-2010, 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by Ubah
I can find research that says the exact same opposite. Research does not mean you personally know these people, research does not mean you personally experience these people.
Research to you means sitting behind a computer listening or reading other people experiences from youtube or googleing.
I as Muslim will not support Taliban especially if there are doubts that they may have oppressed their own people or may not be following Islamic guidelines.
And I wish you and other Muslims would just respect that. And STOP excusing us of being blinded by “Zionist” or “western media” or in some cases calling us (the Muslims that do not support Taliban) “moderate” Muslim which is an insult like we are less of a Muslim then you.
If you do feel strongly about Taliban, how about making duas to guide me to the truth.
For me that is the end of the matter, I cannot keep up with replies as I do have children to attend to during the school holiday. Goodbye
Sister it seems to me as if you have a habit of always assuming things. You have already assumed that the Taliban are suicide bombers when you have already confirmed you know nothing about them. You have also stated that Iraq was already worse off before invasion when you have also confirmed that you know nothing about Iraq. Then you assume that i take my research from youtube. Now you have created a lie claiming i called you a moderate when i never said such a word unless you can quote it?

The point is I just find it shameful that you as a Muslim keeps on slandering those who you have already stated you know nothing about but instead choose to believe what the media portrays about them. These 'doubts' you talk about you obviously got from the media. So you would rather blindly believe their doubts than to trust your Muslim brothers and sisters. Very sad.

I think this should be a lesson to you to open your eyes and look at both sides of the coin rather than just one side. May Allah open up your heart and eyes to the truth and may Allah open the hearts of all the Muslims and non Muslims to the REAL truth of what is going on in the world today. Ameen
Reply

GuestFellow
12-20-2010, 11:45 PM
Originally Posted by Ubah
I can find research that says the exact same opposite.
Then post it. I would like to see it.

Research does not mean you personally know these people, research does not mean you personally experience these people.
I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Research to you means sitting behind a computer listening or reading other
people experiences from youtube or googleing.
How do you know how he conducts his research?

I as Muslim will not support Taliban
You mentioned this three times I think, we've got the message. :statisfie

especially if there are doubts that they may have oppressed their own people or may not be following Islamic guidelines.
I'm fine with that.
Reply

purple
12-20-2010, 11:56 PM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
In fact we were being exceptionally accommodating!
Do you have something to impart besides emotive speech and last 'corporate' news refuse? Again, I think we're all eagerly awaiting your case series report on the observed effect physical and emotional of those living under 'Taliban rule' -- until then I think what you write is fair game to anyone here to dismantle with minor effort!

all the best
I dont see how I was being rude to you or anyone else on this discussion. I actually won’t be posting videos from youtube or articles! Like that would actually constitute as evidence that Taliban are good or bad people, if you think it does then well.... "I think what you write is fair game to anyone here to dismantle with minor effort!".

And btw as “Muslim” who should be utterly ashamed of calling another Muslim a hypocrite!
In fact I won’t reply to you any longer, I wasted enough of time already!
Let face, you do like those who do not support the Taliban Muslims or otherwise! Simple!
Goodnight!
(Gone ;)
Reply

جوري
12-21-2010, 12:03 AM
Originally Posted by Ubah
Let face, you do like those who do not support the Taliban Muslims or otherwise! Simple!
????

Indeed I think you should give it a rest!

all the best
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-21-2010, 12:07 AM
Originally Posted by Ubah
I dont see how I was being rude to you or anyone else on this discussion. I actually won’t be posting videos from youtube or articles! Like that would actually constitute as evidence that Taliban are good or bad people, if you think it does then well.... "I think what you write is fair game to anyone here to dismantle with minor effort!".

And btw as “Muslim” who should be utterly ashamed of calling another Muslim a hypocrite!
In fact I won’t reply to you any longer, I wasted enough of time already!
Let face, you do like those who do not support the Taliban Muslims or otherwise! Simple!
Goodnight!
(Gone ;)
In Islam the definition of a hypocrite is one who when they are with Muslims they make it out as if they are on their side but when they are with non Muslims then they make it out as if they are on their side but in reality they are on neither side. Who side are you actually on> because it is clear that you certainly are not on Muslims side and you have proven that over and over again yet you have also claimed that you are not on the side of a non Muslim. So it does seem like you are not on either side.

I think you are clearly out of your depth in these discussions and that you should certainly go and tend to your children. Please do not fill their heads with the same hatred you hold for your Muslim brothers and sisters.
Reply

purple
12-21-2010, 12:15 AM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Sister it seems to me as if you have a habit of always assuming things. You have already assumed that the Taliban are suicide bombers when you have already confirmed you know nothing about them. You have also stated that Iraq was already worse off before invasion when you have also confirmed that you know nothing about Iraq. Then you assume that i take my research from youtube. Now you have created a lie claiming i called you a moderate when i never said such a word unless you can quote it?

The point is I just find it shameful that you as a Muslim keeps on slandering those who you have already stated you know nothing about but instead choose to believe what the media portrays about them. These 'doubts' you talk about you obviously got from the media. So you would rather blindly believe their doubts than to trust your Muslim brothers and sisters. Very sad.

I think this should be a lesson to you to open your eyes and look at both sides of the coin rather than just one side. May Allah open up your heart and eyes to the truth and may Allah open the hearts of all the Muslims and non Muslims to the REAL truth of what is going on in the world today. Ameen
I keep on saying this Pakistan Taliban have already said they did some of the attack on Pakistan. This does mean it is AfghanistanTaliban which is the group I am not sure about.
2. I have not said you called me a moderate Muslim, please read again. I said other Muslims I came across have said that about me because I stated my stance.


It is not just about the media, it also about those brothers and sisters who have said they too suffered at the hands of Taliban. What those people we ignore them and just trust the Taliban!
I find it shameful that you cannot simply accept that I will not support the Taliban. I only put my trust and faith in Allah (swt). Noone else.
I simply do not like to follow people and that includes Muslims who post videos or articles saying I should support them and put them trust in one particular group.
I rather have mine own thinking, seeking the truth NOT by you, Yale, “Zionist media”. I want to speak to Taliban member, myself when I do go out there. That may sound crazy but that is the only way I will give my full support to anyone!
Ameen to dua.
Reply

purple
12-21-2010, 12:18 AM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

????

Indeed I think you should give it a rest!

all the best
lol sorry I mean "do not like".
Reply

aadil77
12-21-2010, 12:27 AM
Originally Posted by Ubah
I keep on saying this Pakistan Taliban have already said they did some of the attack on Pakistan. This does mean it is AfghanistanTaliban which is the group I am not sure about.
2. I have not said you called me a moderate Muslim, please read again. I said other Muslims I came across have said that about me because I stated my stance.


It is not just about the media, it also about those brothers and sisters who have said they too suffered at the hands of Taliban. What people we ignore them and just trust the Taliban!
I find it shameful that you cannot simply accept that I will not support the Taliban. I only put my trust and faith in Allah (swt). Noone else.
I simply do not like to follow people and that includes Muslims who post videos or articles saying I should support them and put them trust in one particular group.
I rather have mine own thinking, seeking the truth NOT by you, Yale, “Zionist media”. I want to speak to Taliban member, myself when I do go out there. That may sound crazy but that is the only way I will give my full support to anyone!


...
Ameen to dua.
no one is telling you to support the taliban or any other group, the main thing as a muslim is that you should not be too quick to condemn fellow muslims

remember this ayaah when you hear of accusations against other muslims:


O you who believe! If a Faasiq (liar — evil person) comes to you with any news, verify it, lest you should harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful for what you have done






...
Reply

GuestFellow
12-21-2010, 12:31 AM
Originally Posted by Ubah
It is not just about the media, it also about those brothers and sisters who have said they too suffered at the hands of Taliban. What those people we ignore them and just trust the Taliban!
:sl:

Yes but we are having a formal discussion. It is a possibility some Muslims might have suffered from the Taliban, but we need evidence. If there is evidence to show that some members of the Taliban have carried out acts that are not in accordance with Islamic teachings, then we would like to see it.

I find it shameful that you cannot simply accept that I will not support the Taliban. I only put my trust and faith in Allah (swt). Noone else.
Like I said before, that is fine. I agree, that we should trust Allah (swt). I hope I did not give you the impression that I want you to support the Taliban, that is your choice.

I want to speak to Taliban member, myself when I do go out there.
There are other ways of confirming the truth.

Anyway, I think we all can agree that we should not make assumptions and it is best to rely on evidence. Also, we should keep an open mind because during conflicts a lot can change.
Reply

purple
12-21-2010, 12:38 AM
Originally Posted by aadil77
no one is telling you to support the taliban or any other group, the main thing as a muslim is that you should not be too quick to condemn fellow muslims

remember this ayaah when you hear of accusations against other muslims:


O you who believe! If a Faasiq (liar — evil person) comes to you with any news, verify it, lest you should harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful for what you have done






...
Okay
Fair enough
Reply

purple
12-21-2010, 12:45 AM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
:sl:

Anyway, I think we all can agree that we should not make assumptions and it is best to rely on evidence. Also, we should keep an open mind because during conflicts a lot can change.
cool, I agree about keeping an open mind. And I will try.
Reply

Lynx
12-21-2010, 02:18 AM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
What about remaining 60%?
Right after the part you are quoting I noted that the figure does not include non-pakistani members like the Chechnyans and Arabs. That could be really close to 50%. I think that's sufficient to say the Taliban were largely foreign.

Just because there are Taliban soldiers who happen to be Pakistani, does not necessarily mean that the Pakistani government supports them.
"While Musharraf admitted the Taliban were being sheltered in the lawless frontier border regions, the declassified U.S. documents released today clearly illustrate that the Taliban was directly funded, armed and advised by Islamabad itself." (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB227/)

You can also research for yourself the ISI's involvement in Afghanistan and the training of Gulbideen Hekmatyar. I've given you plenty of names and topics that you can look up for yourself.

Yes, but I want evidence. I would like more detail.
I don't know what you are saying 'yes' to but why are you on this thread if you don't know anything about the Taliban's history? This is common knowledge that a simple google search could inform you about. edit: (i will inform you anyway) After the Soviets got kicked out, there was a power vacuum which resulted in a civil war between the warlords who had previously fought off the Russians. The Taliban started its own campaign south from the border and, with their foreign support, were able to drive the other warlords up North who were exhausted from all the fighting. This resulted in the majority control the Taliban had and the civil war they were fighting with the other warlords who had stopped their invasion just short of the northern province of Panjsher.

.

Why would Pakistan would like to gain control of that region? Oh evidence for this too.
Well the geographic importance of Afghanistan is known by all. Moreover, there is a history of Pakistani meddling in Afghan politics since the time of Gulbideen and now the Taliban (the funding of and training of soldiers). At the very least, American intelligence agrees with me and you can see that in the site I linked above.

Source...
Again, why are you even discussing this with me if you don't know anything about the region? Type in Ahmad Shah Massoud in Google.

So? You can be educated at Oxford University but it does not mean you are fit to govern a country. Though being educated can be a good basis to get into politics.
And what I said in my last post is that I don't expect a governing body like the Taliban to make any improvements considering they don't have any of the specialized training to govern a country. Locking people up in their homes for 'safety' might reduce the crime rate but law and order are not sufficient in themselves to bring a country out of poverty. The President of America is not an economist there's a reason why he's surrounded by them.

I'm not entirely sure but what are you trying to prove exactly? That the Afghan people do not support the Taliban?
The level of support the Taliban gets from the Muslim world is very misplaced. They are hardly the noble mujahideen fighting the evil NATO crusaders that some of you like to believe.

@Fallen Angel
Wow, way to generalize things. Quite evident you're speaking out of ignorance rather than facts. I've never been sent to a madrassa but i know people who have and none of them turned into"taliban kids" and got sent off to Afghanistan..
I wasn't generalizing. I was talking about a specific brand of Madrassas that are infamous for sending wannabe martyrs to Afghanistan. The rest of your post attempts to criticize my argument by attacking my motives. This is a logical fallacy and if you can re-post something that actually addresses the topic at hand rather than some imaginary bias you think I have then I will be more than happy to respond.

@Lily
I am not shocked by your ignorance-No!.. but if you are going to put your own spin on an Arabic term again do it with like minded fools
I wasn't putting my spin on any Arabic terms; I was talking about a specific brand of madrassas that are infamous for sending wannabe martyrs to Afghanistan. The rest of your post is your usual anger-management stuff.

@Hamza

This might also come as a shock to you but the media will never truly tell you the full truth in context about the invasions of Afghanistan or Iraq for they will tell you their own created "truth". It is very clear to all that you know nothing about the people in Afghanistan apart from what you read in the papers or on the news and you make it out like you know exactly what the Afghan people want. How much more do you want to expose your flawed and baseless arguments?
I welcome you to challenge what I've said any time.


Conclusion:

This thread is full of people who have a lot to say about a region that they are completely ignorant about. Afghanistan has gone through many decades of war and its people are suffering. If you can't help, at least learn about it. That's a start.
Reply

جوري
12-21-2010, 03:03 AM
Originally Posted by Lynx
@Lily


I wasn't putting my spin on any Arabic terms; I was talking about a specific brand of madrassas that are infamous for sending wannabe martyrs to Afghanistan. The rest of your post is your usual anger-management stuff.
except you didn't specify any brands .. this is in fact what you wrote:
Originally Posted by Lynx
since most of them seem to come from madrassas
I am asking you again, have you something against schools or the specific occult type that we were meant to intuitively derive from your writing? Do you know what the curriculum is in those specific 'Madrassas'?
Reply

Lynx
12-21-2010, 04:34 AM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

except you didn't specify any brands .. this is in fact what you wrote:


I am asking you again, have you something against schools or the specific occult type that we were meant to intuitively derive from your writing? Do you know what the curriculum is in those specific 'Madrassas'?
"However, most of the leaders of the current Taliban regime in Afghanistan have been influenced by the teachings of Islam in Pakistan, where they had migrated with millions of other Afghans after the Soviet invasion. There, they attended religious seminaries or "madrassas", while many of them also remained active fighting the Soviets in the battlefields. They are the followers of the "Deobandi" school of thought, preached by mullahs (clerics) in Pakistani madrassas. The Deobandi school emerged as a reform movement in British India with the aim of rejuvenating Islamic society in a colonial state. The Pakistani version of the Deobandi schools in Afghan refugee camps were, however, often run by in-experienced and semi-literate mullahs, associated with Pakistan's Jami'at-e 'Ulema-e Islam (JUI) political party."

http://www.institute-for-afghan-stud...ntro_kakar.htm

Does that help?
Emphasis mine.
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جوري
12-21-2010, 04:50 AM
Originally Posted by Lynx
"However, most of the leaders of the current Taliban regime in Afghanistan have been influenced by the teachings of Islam in Pakistan, where they had migrated with millions of other Afghans after the Soviet invasion. There, they attended religious seminaries or "madrassas", while many of them also remained active fighting the Soviets in the battlefields. They are the followers of the "Deobandi" school of thought, preached by mullahs (clerics) in Pakistani madrassas. The Deobandi school emerged as a reform movement in British India with the aim of rejuvenating Islamic society in a colonial state. The Pakistani version of the Deobandi schools in Afghan refugee camps were, however, often run by in-experienced and semi-literate mullahs, associated with Pakistan's Jami'at-e 'Ulema-e Islam (JUI) political party." http://www.institute-for-afghan-stud...ntro_kakar.htm Does that help? Emphasis mine.
I keep asking you if you have something against Islamic education or if you even know what it entails? I fear you display deeper ignorance with each subsequent post, do you simply want to put something down for the sake of spamming?... This is just a piece of crap you googled.. it doesn't tell me anything about their curriculum.. and it certainly doesn't exonerate you from misuse of the term, you are merely parroting what you believe though it is composed entirely of fluff.. like the idiots who talk about wahbism, when there is no such school or sect in Islam called Wahabism. You're such an inexperienced rookie, it is almost amusing to read such inane regurgitated platitudes.. Are you capable of a real discussion or for that matter an independent thought?

all the best
Reply

Lynx
12-21-2010, 04:53 AM
Originally Posted by ChargerCarl
*waits for accusations of "zionist propaganda"*
That's always fun :)

I dug up a pretty informative paper with more details as to what exactly is taught in these madrassas.

"Most madrassa instructors will never admit to coercing their students into joining the
Taliban.29 However, Muaulana Samiul Haq, headmaster of the Darul uloom Haqqania madrassa,
was quoted as saying, “Young minds are not for thinking. We catch them for the [madrassas]
when they are young, and by the time they are old enough to think, they know what to think”
(Haqqani 63). Lal Masjid’s madrassa is a rare case where the madrassas managers publically
support the Taliban and “encourage their students to join the anti-Western jihad in Afghanistan”
(Ahmad). At Darul uloom Haqqania’s commencement ceremony in 2003, “in their speeches,
teachers and religious scholars urged the students to put defending their faith before everything
else” (H. Rashid 2003). Even if the madrassas in Pakistan do not make militants, “they create a
worldview that makes militancy possible” (Tavernise)."

http://escholar.salve.edu/cgi/viewco...xt=pell_theses
Reply

جوري
12-21-2010, 05:00 AM
Originally Posted by Lynx

It is indeed worthy of a guffaw betty crocker.. btw who is Nicole Warren outside of a student at the Catholic coeducational university of the arts and sciences?

Did you get lost on the way to the motley fool forum? ;D ;D ;D ;D
Reply

Lynx
12-21-2010, 05:03 AM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

I keep asking you if you have something against Islamic education or if you even know what it entails? I fear you display deeper ignorance with each subsequent post, do you simply want to put something down for the sake of spamming?...
I don't have anything against Islamic education. I don't see anything in any of my posts that claimed anything against Islaimc education. What I said was the taliban militants are not learning things at these madrassas that could make them capable of qualified to run a nation. I've given you two links, the second of which is especially informative, that tells us what these talibs are learning at their madrassas. Do you think any of it teaches the basics of macroeconomic theory? loL

This is just a piece of crap you googled.. it doesn't tell me anything about their curriculum.. and it certainly doesn't exonerate you from misuse of the term,
I did not misuse any term. If anyone misused the term 'madrassa' it's the mullahs in Pakistan that train little boys to become taliban insurgents.

you are merely parroting what you believe though it is composed entirely of fluff.. like the idiots who talk about wahbism, when there is no such school or sect in Islam called Wahabism. You're such an inexperienced rookie, it is almost amusing to read such inane regurgitated platitudes.. Are you capable of a real discussion or for that matter an independent thought?

all the best

Sigh, wahabis are hanbalis. This is a different topic altogether and if you want to discuss wahabis and salafis and hanbalis start a new thread.
Reply

Lynx
12-21-2010, 05:11 AM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ


It is indeed worthy of a guffaw betty crocker.. btw who is Nicole Warren outside of a student at the Catholic coeducational university of the arts and sciences?

Did you get lost on the way to the motley fool forum? ;D ;D ;D ;D

woah you don't just disregard any paper written by someone who might have a questionable bias, do you? I mean you actually go through the footnotes first, right?

In any case, do whatever you want, the burden of proof is on you guys to show that the Taliban madrassas teach things to their students that are beneficial to running a country.
Reply

جوري
12-21-2010, 05:21 AM
Originally Posted by Lynx
I don't have anything against Islamic education. I don't see anything in any of my posts that claimed anything against Islaimc education. What I said was the taliban militants are not learning things at these madrassas that could make them capable of qualified to run a nation. I've given you two links, the second of which is especially informative, that tells us what these talibs are learning at their madrassas. Do you think any of it teaches the basics of macroeconomic theory? loL
and I keep asking you to prove it with something outside of a student dissertation from a catholic community college!
throwing out terms whose meaning and usage you seem inept to putting in a correct context and then laughing at your own banalities only cements your cognitive conservatism if not frank psychopathy and I am being rather gentle here!

I did not misuse any term. If anyone misused the term 'madrassa' it's the mullahs in Pakistan that train little boys to become taliban insurgents.
A madrassa means school no more no less. schools can have a parochial education. The mere fact that said education doesn't offer BCP's to 11 year olds and sex education to fifth graders isn't something that you personally have much say in let along by way of ridicule. Also one country's 'insurgent' is another country's freedom fighter.. that is how the afghans have been kicking ass for centuries!
works better than 750 prosthesis, pork rinds and the occasional stand comic in defense of their sovereign nation I'd say far better than your homos in the military-- in fact so tells us history about their nation.


Sigh, wahabis are hanbalis. This is a different topic altogether and if you want to discuss wahabis and salafis and hanbalis start a new thread.
As a general rule, you shouldn't be the first or even the last to comment on any school of figh or Islamic jurisprudence. Wahabis aren't hanbalis anymore than they're maliki or hanfi you are ridiculous.. there is no such thing as a wahabi whether or not it belongs on this thread it just works to highlight your folly not that extraneous extras are needed to demonstrate that!

all the best
Reply

جوري
12-21-2010, 05:25 AM
Originally Posted by Lynx
woah you don't just disregard any paper written by someone who might have a questionable bias, do you? I mean you actually go through the footnotes first, right? In any case, do whatever you want, the burden of proof is on you guys to show that the Taliban madrassas teach things to their students that are beneficial to running a country.

I am not the one making an accusation to have a burden of proof. What authority does the paper have outside of making you feel better? It is like Tweedledee bringing Tweedledum for backup.
as for what the madrassas teach, well frankly who cares so long as they kick some foreign ass which is exactly what they've been doing for centuries.. I mean isn't that your objection to begin with? that for all the money, equipments and homos sent you're unable to subjugate the people of Afghanistan so the best you can do is a smear campaign and an article by girl from a catholic community college? frankly you're pathetic!
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-21-2010, 05:33 AM
Originally Posted by Lynx
woah you don't just disregard any paper written by someone who might have a questionable bias, do you? I mean you actually go through the footnotes first, right?

In any case, do whatever you want, the burden of proof is on you guys to show that the Taliban madrassas teach things to their students that are beneficial to running a country.
Your sources are so laughable and you are really making yourself look like a fool now. I told you before save the little credibility you have left and now you have none at all. There is no burden on us to prove anything to you. You have tried but failed miserably with your pathetic excuse of sources that you have provided. Thanks for providing us with a good laugh.
Reply

Lynx
12-21-2010, 05:37 AM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

and I keep asking you to prove it with something outside of a student dissertation from a catholic community college!
throwing out terms whose meaning and usage you seem inept to putting in a correct context and then laughing at your own banalities only cements your cognitive conservatism if not frank psychopathy and I am being rather gentle here!
I told you my previous post, read the footnotes. Poisoning the well is a logical fallacy last i checked especialyl when the footnotes are there for you to see.

A madrassa means school no more no less. schools can have a parochial education. The mere fact that said education doesn't offer BCP's to 11 year olds and sex education to fifth graders isn't something that you personally have much say in let along by way of ridicule.
I am not talking about the quality of their education. I am talking about whether or not these madrassas are equipping their students to run a nation since their students are RUNNING A COUNTRY. If you actually read what I say you'd have gotten this. Let me repeat I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ISLAMIC EDUCATION.

works better than 750 prosthesis, pork rinds and the occasional stand comic in defense of their sovereign nation I'd say far better than your homos in the military-- in fact so tells us history about their nation.
Read my previous posts that demonstrate the Taliban are another foreign occupying force.

As a general rule, you shouldn't be the first or even the last to comment on any school of figh or Islamic jurisprudence. Wahabis aren't hanbalis anymore than they're maliki or hanfi you are ridiculous.. there is no such thing as a wahabi whether or not it belongs on this thread it just works to highlight your folly not that extraneous extras are needed to demonstrate that!

all the best
You obviously don't know anything about wahabis. Start a new thread.
Reply

Lynx
12-21-2010, 05:42 AM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ


I am not the one making an accusation to have a burden of proof. What authority does the paper have outside of making you feel better? It is like Tweedledee bringing Tweedledum for backup.
as for what the madrassas teach, well frankly who cares so long as they kick some foreign ass which is exactly what they've been doing for centuries.. I mean isn't that your objection to begin with? that for all the money, equipments and homos sent you're unable to subjugate the people of Afghanistan so the best you can do is a smear campaign and an article by girl from a catholic community college? frankly you're pathetic!
DO you even read the posts you reply to or do you just read a couple of words, assume what the persons says, and then reply to that? I can't reply to you because what you're saying has absolutely nothing to do with what I have been arguing all along. I am sorry but if you want me to reply to you re-read my posts (or read them for hte first time) and then try to discuss something. You've derailed an otherwise fruitful discussion about the Taliban with your fixation on arabic terminology and now you are talking about the NATO invasion which I have not even mentioned at all. Have a nice day.
Reply

جوري
12-21-2010, 05:42 AM
Originally Posted by Lynx
I told you my previous post, read the footnotes. Poisoning the well is a logical fallacy last i checked especialyl when the footnotes are there for you to see.
Go ahead, share them here a dissertation by definition is an advancing the individual's point of view.. not much different than what you personally are doing.. you have a specific bias you look for things that support it. You're yet to prove to me from truth and not a catholic girl's paper that 10 month out of the year they learn just the term jihad.. I mean how about the art of warfare.. a school running one one subject isn't likely to produce such elusive individuals that had your type by the balls for so long!

I am not talking about the quality of their education. I am talking about whether or not these madrassas are equipping their students to run a nation since their students are RUNNING A COUNTRY. If you actually read what I say you'd have gotten this. Let me repeat I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ISLAMIC EDUCATION.
What exactly is your problem? what are you arguing for or against here?


Read my previous posts that demonstrate the Taliban are another foreign occupying force.
Except they are not, and even if they were so what? Israel is a foreign occupying force, they're not going anywhere any time soon deal with it!


You obviously don't know anything about wahabis. Start a new thread.
Yeah, whatever I don't know is already milestones ahead of you.. There is more to being learned than simply affirming it on every post!

all the best
Reply

جوري
12-21-2010, 05:44 AM
Originally Posted by Lynx
DO you even read the posts you reply to or do you just read a couple of words, assume what the persons says, and then reply to that? I can't reply to you because what you're saying has absolutely nothing to do with what I have been arguing all along. I am sorry but if you want me to reply to you re-read my posts (or read them for hte first time) and then try to discuss something. You've derailed an otherwise fruitful discussion about the Taliban with your fixation on arabic terminology and now you are talking about the NATO invasion which I have not even mentioned at all. Have a nice day.

I will have a nice day thank you.. I enjoy your cowardly exist when the noose tightens around your neck.. but you know you already made a similar exit before, yet here you're back again.. maybe you just can't help yourself.. although you'd have saved yourself plenty by remaining silent before at the risk of being thought a fool than actually opening your big bazoo and proving it to everyone..

all the best
Reply

Lynx
12-21-2010, 05:44 AM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Your sources are so laughable and you are really making yourself look like a fool now. I told you before save the little credibility you have left and now you have none at all. There is no burden on us to prove anything to you. You have tried but failed miserably with your pathetic excuse of sources that you have provided. Thanks for providing us with a good laugh.
You good sir have said nothing but 'zionist controlled media' this entire discussion. I am beginning to think you are too lazy to research stuff on your own.
Reply

جوري
12-21-2010, 05:46 AM
Originally Posted by Lynx
You good sir have said nothing but 'zionist controlled media' this entire discussion. I am beginning to think you are too lazy to research stuff on your own.

and you've nothing but the catholic girl's paper.. what is your point?
Reply

Lynx
12-21-2010, 05:47 AM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ


I will have a nice day thank you.. I enjoy your cowardly exist when the noose tightens around your neck.. but you know you already made a similar exit before, yet here you're back again.. maybe you just can't help yourself.. although you'd have saved yourself plenty by remaining silent before at the risk of being thought a fool than actually opening your big bazoo and proving it to everyone..

all the best
If you want to discuss the hanbali=salafi=wahabi thing by all means open a new thread. If you want to address my arguments that the Taliban are largely a foreign force with its own political agendas that make them far from the noble mujahideen that some of you blindly believe then rread my posts in this thread and respond if you can. I can't entertain your arguments if they are about things I have not said.
Reply

جوري
12-21-2010, 05:52 AM
Originally Posted by Lynx
If you want to discuss the hanbali=salafi=wahabi thing by all means open a new thread. If you want to address my arguments that the Taliban are largely a foreign force with its own political agendas that make them far from the noble mujahideen that some of you blindly believe then rread my posts in this thread and respond if you can. I can't entertain your arguments if they are about things I have not said.
I don't think your adept at discussing any subject with minor dexterity. I have already addressed your non-points. If you don't like the replies given then deal with it on your own private time. So what is they have a political agenda, and so what even if they're a foreign force, you've failed to make a point against why either is such an abomination.. who has Afghanistan's interest at heart? foreign turds with their Humvee or folks who actually live there and are front line infantry against foreign invaders and a puppet govt.? Not a difficult choice!
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-21-2010, 05:54 AM
This thread has ran its course now especially because of a couple of narrow minded individuals who merely parrot exactly what comes out of the media and will only ever look at one side of the coin because of their innate hatred for Islam and Muslims.

The following article sums up perfectly the real truth about the Taliban and Afghanistan and is a perfect way to conclude this thread:


Let's Speak the Truth About Afghanistan


NEW YORK -- During his triumphant European tour, Senator Barack Obama again urged NATO's members to send more troops to Afghanistan and called the conflict there, "the central front in the war on terror." Europe's response ranged from polite evasion to downright frosty.

It is unfortunate that Obama has adopted President George Bush's misleading terminology, "war on terror," to describe the conflict between the United States and anti-American groups in the Muslim world. Like many Americans, he and his foreign policy advisors are sorely misinformed about the reality of Afghanistan.

One understands Obama's need to respond with martial élan to rival John McCain's chest-thumping about "I know how to win wars." Polls put McCain far ahead of Obama when it comes to being a war leader. But Obama's recent proposal to send at least 7,000 more U.S. troops to Afghanistan, and his threats to attack Pakistan's territory, and warnings about Islamabad's nuclear forces, show poor judgment and lack of knowledge.

The United States is no longer "fighting terrorism" in Afghanistan, as Bush, Obama and McCain insist. The 2001 U.S. invasion was a legitimate operation against al-Qaeda, a group that properly fit the role of a "terrorist organization." But, contrary to the White House's wildly inflated claims that Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda was a worldwide conspiracy, it never numbered more than 300 hard core members. Bin Laden and his jihadis long ago scattered into all corners of Pakistan and elsewhere. Only a handful remain in Afghanistan.

Today, 80,000 U.S. and NATO troops are waging war against the Taliban. Having accompanied the mujahidin fighting the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan during the 1980's, witnessed the birth of Taliban, and penned a book about the Afghan struggle, "War at the Top of the World," I can attest that Taliban is not a terrorist organization as the U.S. and its allies wrongly claim.

Taliban was created in the early 1990's during the chaos and civil war that engulfed Afghanistan after the Soviet invaders were driven out. Drawn from Pashtun tribes of southern Afghanistan, who make up half that nation's population, Taliban was a religious movement that took up arms to battle the Afghan Communists, stop the wide-scale rape of Afghan women, and halt banditry and the drug trade. Both Pakistan and the U.S. secretly aided Taliban.

The ranks of Taliban were filled with young religious students -- "talibs" -- and veteran mujahidin fighters whom the U.S. had armed and hailed as "freedom fighters." By 1996, Taliban took Kabul, driving out the Northern Alliance, the old rump of the Afghan Communist Party and its Russian-backed Tajik and Uzbek tribal supporters. Taliban, most of whom were mountaineers, imposed a draconian medievalist culture that followed traditional Pashtun tribal customs and Islamic law.

The U.S. quietly backed Taliban for possible use in Central Asia, against China in the event of war, and against Iran, a bitter foe of the Sunni Taliban. U.S. energy giants Chevron and Unocal negotiated gas and oil pipeline deals with Taliban. In 2001, Washington gave $40 million in aid to Taliban until four months before 9/11. The U.S. only turned against Taliban when, at Osama bin Laden's advice, it gave a major pipeline deal to an Argentine consortium rather than an American one.

Everything that happens in Afghanistan is based on tribal politics. Taliban came from the heart of the Pashtun tribal grouping, the world's largest tribe which also accounts for up to 20% of Pakistan's population. Tribal and clan loyalties trump all political alliances.

The Taliban leadership had nothing to do with 9/11, a plot that, according to European prosecutors, was hatched in Germany and Spain, not Afghanistan. Nor did it have anything to do with subsequent attacks ascribed to al-Qaeda. After 9/11, Secretary of State Colin Powell vowed to published a White paper demonstrating Osama bin Laden's culpability in the attacks. Curiously, the promised paper was never issued.

Osama bin Laden was a national hero of the anti-Soviet struggle, wounded six times in battle. Taliban's collective leadership, in keeping with the Pashtun code of hospitality and honor, refused U.S. demands to hand over bin Laden until Washington issued a proper extradition request with evidence of bin Laden's guilt and promised him a fair trial. Washington refused to go through legal channels and, instead, invaded Afghanistan.

Fast forward to 2008. Today, U.S. and NATO forces are not fighting "terrorists" in Afghanistan but a loose alliance of Pashtun warrior tribes whose resistance to foreign occupation is legendary. They are descendants of the same Pashtun mountain warriors who battled Alexander the Great, the Mongols, the British Empire and the Soviet Union. All these invaders were eventually defeated.

Former U.S.-backed mujahidin "freedom-fighters," like the legendary Jallal Haqqani and Gulbadin Hekmatyar, have also joined Taliban in resisting foreign occupation.

The war now being waged in Afghanistan by the U.S. and NATO closely resembles 19th century colonial "pacifications" in which a puppet ruler is installed, a native mercenary army ("sepoys") hired to fight, and western troops sent to crush rebellious tribesmen who refuse to follow the diktat of the imperial power.

Equally important, the real objective of the ongoing U.S. occupation of Afghanistan became recently evident. The U.S.-installed Karzai regime in Kabul finally singed a long-discussed pipeline deal that will bring energy south from the new gas and oil Klondike of the Caspian Basin through Afghanistan to Pakistan's coast and India.

As the perceptive writer Kevin Phillips notes, U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan -- and Iraq -- have become "pipeline protection troops."

Barack Obama and John McCain had better look carefully before plunging deeper into the Afghan morass. In Afghanistan, we are not fighting "terrorists" but a medieval tribal people who just want to be left alone. This is an ugly little war about oil and gas, not freedom, democracy, or woman's rights. Every village we bomb, every wedding party our air powers massacres, brings new recruits to Taliban and its allies.

Even the secretary general of NATO, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, said last April that there could be no military solution to the war in Afghanistan, only a political one. That means negotiating with Taliban and political inclusion for the Pashtun people. But President Bush and candidates McCain and Obama are not listening.

Source:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-m..._b_115591.html

And Allah knows best in all matters
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