The Buraq

[Saad17]

Assalam-O-Alaikum

Ok this thread is to talk about the Buraq which according to Hadith took Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) for the the whole Mi'raj event.


I find this Hadith to be false in the sense that.
1. I don't believe Allah would make such a creature mean of transport, a winged creature (with a face of a woman?). It just sounds a little ridiculous, I mean virgin birth of Jesus (PBUH) or 600 winged form of Angel Gabriel sounds very interesting or at least are considered to be valid information about someone we are aware of but mentioning the Buraq sounds pointless to me. Maybe it exists but I don't wanna picture something like Pegasus the winged horse or so.
2. The event where Allah would lower the number of Salat on constant request of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is not correct since according to the Quran the number of prayers are 5 and the Jews did pray 5 times during and before the time of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) so Salat isn't anything new, the method and the timing are the same for all generations. So according to this event, I would say that this Hadith is invalid.

Nonetheless, I would like to see some clarification to show that this Buraq is even a valid creature because a thing this big is not in the Quran then its not reliable (same goes for the Al-Mehdi or Second coming of Christ , exception to Dajjal since we do witness his/it's presence)

Heres the Hadith:

Narrated Abbas bin Malik: Malik bin Sasaa said that Allah's Apostle described to them his Night Journey saying, "While I was lying in Al-Hatim or Al-Hijr, suddenly someone came to me and cut my body open from here to here." I asked Al-Jarud who was by my side, "What does he mean?" He said, "It means from his throat to his pubic area," or said, "From the top of the chest." The Prophet further said, "He then took out my heart. Then a gold tray of Belief was brought to me and my heart was washed and was filled (with Belief) and then returned to its original place. Then a white animal which was smaller than a mule and bigger than a donkey was brought to me." (On this Al-Jarud asked, "Was it the buraq, O Abu Hamza?" I (i.e. Anas) replied in the affirmative). The Prophet said, "The animal's step (was so wide that it) reached the farthest point within the reach of the animal's sight. I was carried on it, and Gabriel set out with me till we reached the nearest heaven. When he asked for the gate to be opened, it was asked, 'Who is it?' Gabriel answered, 'Gabriel.' It was asked, 'Who is accompanying you?' Gabriel replied, 'Muhammad.' It was asked, 'Has Muhammad been called?' Gabriel replied in the affirmative. Then it was said, 'He is welcomed. What an excellent visit his is!' The gate was opened, and when I went over the first heaven, I saw Adam there. Gabriel said (to me). 'This is your father, Adam; pay him your greetings.' So I greeted him and he returned the greeting to me and said, 'You are welcomed, O pious son and pious Prophet.' Then Gabriel ascended with me till we reached the second heaven. Gabriel asked for the gate to be opened. It was asked, 'Who is it?' Gabriel answered, 'Gabriel.' It was asked, 'Who is accompanying you?' Gabriel replied, 'Muhammad.' It was asked, 'Has he been called?' Gabriel answered in the affirmative. Then it was said, 'He is welcomed. What an excellent visit his is!' The gate was opened. When I went over the second heaven, there I saw Yahya (i.e. John) and 'Isa (i.e. Jesus) who were cousins of each other. Gabriel said (to me), 'These are John and Jesus; pay them your greetings.' So I greeted them and both of them returned my greetings to me and said, 'You are welcomed, O pious brother and pious Prophet.' Then Gabriel ascended with me to the third heaven and asked for its gate to be opened. It was asked, 'Who is it?' Gabriel replied, 'Gabriel.' It was asked, 'Who is accompanying you?' Gabriel replied, 'Muhammad.' It was asked, 'Has he been called?' Gabriel replied in the affirmative. Then it was said, 'He is welcomed, what an excellent visit his is!' The gate was opened, and when I went over the third heaven there I saw Joseph. Gabriel said (to me), 'This is Joseph; pay him your greetings.' So I greeted him and he returned the greeting to me and said, 'You are welcomed, O pious brother and pious Prophet.' Then Gabriel ascended with me to the fourth heaven and asked for its gate to be opened. It was asked, 'Who is it?' Gabriel replied, 'Gabriel' It was asked, 'Who is accompanying you?' Gabriel replied, 'Muhammad.' It was asked, 'Has he been called?' Gabriel replied in the affirmative. Then it was said, 'He is welcomed, what an excel lent visit his is!' The gate was opened, and when I went over the fourth heaven, there I saw Idris. Gabriel said (to me), 'This is Idris; pay him your greetings.' So I greeted him and he returned the greeting to me and said, 'You are welcomed, O pious brother and pious Prophet.' Then Gabriel ascended with me to the fifth heaven and asked for its gate to be opened. It was asked, 'Who is it?' Gabriel replied, 'Gabriel.' It was asked. 'Who is accompanying you?' Gabriel replied, 'Muhammad.' It was asked, 'Has he been called?' Gabriel replied in the affirmative. Then it was said He is welcomed, what an excellent visit his is! So when I went over the fifth heaven, there I saw Harun (i.e. Aaron), Gabriel said, (to me). This is Aaron; pay him your greetings.' I greeted him and he returned the greeting to me and said, 'You are welcomed, O pious brother and pious Prophet.' Then Gabriel ascended with me to the sixth heaven and asked for its gate to be opened. It was asked. 'Who is it?' Gabriel replied, 'Gabriel.' It was asked, 'Who is accompanying you?' Gabriel replied, 'Muhammad.' It was asked, 'Has he been called?' Gabriel replied in the affirmative. It was said, 'He is welcomed. What an excellent visit his is!' When I went (over the sixth heaven), there I saw Moses. Gabriel said (to me),' This is Moses; pay him your greeting. So I greeted him and he returned the greetings to me and said, 'You are welcomed, O pious brother and pious Prophet.' When I left him (i.e. Moses) he wept. Someone asked him, 'What makes you weep?' Moses said, 'I weep because after me there has been sent (as Prophet) a young man whose followers will enter Paradise in greater numbers than my followers.' Then Gabriel ascended with me to the seventh heaven and asked for its gate to be opened. It was asked, 'Who is it?' Gabriel replied, 'Gabriel.' It was asked,' Who is accompanying you?' Gabriel replied, 'Muhammad.' It was asked, 'Has he been called?' Gabriel replied in the affirmative. Then it was said, 'He is welcomed. What an excellent visit his is!' So when I went (over the seventh heaven), there I saw Abraham. Gabriel said (to me), 'This is your father; pay your greetings to him.' So I greeted him and he returned the greetings to me and said, 'You are welcomed, O pious son and pious Prophet.' Then I was made to ascend to Sidrat-ul-Muntaha (i.e. the Lote Tree of the utmost boundary) Behold! Its fruits were like the jars of Hajr (i.e. a place near Medina) and its leaves were as big as the ears of elephants. Gabriel said, 'This is the Lote Tree of the utmost boundary) . Behold ! There ran four rivers, two were hidden and two were visible, I asked, 'What are these two kinds of rivers, O Gabriel?' He replied,' As for the hidden rivers, they are two rivers in Paradise and the visible rivers are the Nile and the Euphrates.' Then Al-Bait-ul-Ma'mur (i.e. the Sacred House) was shown to me and a container full of wine and another full of milk and a third full of honey were brought to me. I took the milk. Gabriel remarked, 'This is the Islamic religion which you and your followers are following.' Then the prayers were enjoined on me: They were fifty prayers a day. When I returned, I passed by Moses who asked (me), 'What have you been ordered to do?' I replied, 'I have been ordered to offer fifty prayers a day.' Moses said, 'Your followers cannot bear fifty prayers a day, and by Allah, I have tested people before you, and I have tried my level best with Bani Israel (in vain). Go back to your Lord and ask for reduction to lessen your followers' burden.' So I went back, and Allah reduced ten prayers for me. Then again I came to Moses, but he repeated the same as he had said before. Then again I went back to Allah and He reduced ten more prayers. When I came back to Moses he said the same, I went back to Allah and He ordered me to observe ten prayers a day. When I came back to Moses, he repeated the same advice, so I went back to Allah and was ordered to observe five prayers a day. When I came back to Moses, he said, 'What have you been ordered?' I replied, 'I have been ordered to observe five prayers a day.' He said, 'Your followers cannot bear five prayers a day, and no doubt, I have got an experience of the people before you, and I have tried my level best with Bani Israel, so go back to your Lord and ask for reduction to lessen your follower's burden.' I said, 'I have requested so much of my Lord that I feel ashamed, but I am satisfied now and surrender to Allah's Order.' When I left, I heard a voice saying, 'I have passed My Order and have lessened the burden of My Worshipers." (Book #58, Hadith # 227)

Anyone wish to make a valid point?

Thank you for reading,
Looking forward for some good response.

[aadil77]

Assalam-O-Alaikum

Ok this thread is to talk about the Buraq which according to Hadith took Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) for the the whole Mi'raj event.


I find this Hadith to be false in the sense that.
1. I don't believe Allah would make such a creature mean of transport, a winged creature (with a face of a woman?). It just sounds a little ridiculous, I mean virgin birth of Jesus (PBUH) or 600 winged form of Angel Gabriel sounds very interesting or at least are considered to be valid information about someone we are aware of but mentioning the Buraq sounds pointless to me. Maybe it exists but I don't wanna picture something like Pegasus the winged horse or so.

2. The event where Allah would lower the number of Salat on constant request of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is not correct since according to the Quran the number of prayers are 5 and the Jews did pray 5 times during and before the time of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) so Salat isn't anything new, the method and the timing are the same for all generations. So according to this event, I would say that this Hadith is invalid.

Who are you to render fundamental islamic events invalid?

You're talking like you're some kind of scholar of hadith, concentrate on your studies kid and leave the islamic sciences to the scholars who have spent their lives studying them.

Btw jews have never prayed 5 times a day - its 3 times a day

[Zafran]

salaam

clearly a creature from the unseen - The Quran talks about Angels and Jinns and Prophet Sulimen (pbuh) talking to animals.

Furthermore where does it say face of a women???

second - the Miraj did happen as thats in the Quran as well.

By the way the second coming of christ is in the Quran. Jesus pbuh is a sign of the hour.

peace

[Saad17]

Who are you to render fundamental islamic events invalid?

You're talking like you're some kind of scholar of hadith, concentrate on your studies kid and leave the islamic sciences to the scholars who have spent their lives studying them.

Btw jews have never prayed 5 times a day - its 3 times a day

I'm saying that its invalid for ME so can anyone make it valid for ME?

Second of all, The Quran says that Allah enjoined on us what was enjoined on previous generations especially Salat,Zakat and Fasting so either the previous generations performed Salat 50 times or didn't perform Salat at all until the command for Salat came at the event of Mi'raj as suggested by the Hadith.

salaam

clearly a creature from the unseen - The Quran talks about Angels and Jinns and Prophet Sulimen (pbuh) talking to animals.

Furthermore where does it say face of a women???

second - the Miraj did happen as thats in the Quran as well.

By the way the second coming of christ is in the Quran. Jesus pbuh is a sign of the hour.

peace

Like I said, the miracles, the angels and jinns have a reason to be mentioned and plus these things are in the Quran so yes they are valid and that Allah did took His servant for a ride as the Quran (Mi'raj), all valid and good but there is no mention of Buraq which is a big detail of the story or Allah giving the command of Salat as I suggested above , Salat wasn't something new but I keep hearing about Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) riding a flying winged-beast as the event of Mi'raj without any evidence from the Quran and the event as an explanation for 5 Salats (and I only heard the Buraq to have a woman face plus it is drawn that way but again no Quranic support)

Secondly, Jesus (PBUH) mentioned as a sign of the hour and say not to doubt about it. Well I interpret it as Jesus (PBUH) resurrecting the dead as a proof that Allah can resurrect the dead and WILL resurrect you all on the Hour of Resurrection so have no doubt about the Hour, not the return of Christ being a sign of the Hour (it doesn't necessary mean that Jesus (PBUH) would descend from the heavens and all otherwise the Quran would have made it clear.)

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[Woodrow]

:sl:


Sometime we make things more complicated than they need be. We really only know that the Baraq was a creature that had never been seen by human eyes before and possibly will never be seen again, we are getting a human description of something that probably can not be described fully in human terms.

When we look at things never seen before and try to describe them to people that never saw them. the person hearing the description often conjecture up an unreliable image. Yet the description can be understood and is sufficient for others to recognize the creature if they ever do happen to see it.

In just human terms look at the early description of things like whales, kangaroos, giraffes to people that never saw them and tried to draw pictures of them. Old biology text books look quite ridiculous, and the descriptions can sound quite bizarre, until a person sees for themselves the creature described.

I have never seen a Baraq and doubt if I ever will. I really can not even imagine what it would look like. Yet based upon the description if I ever saw one I am certain I would know it was a Baraq based upon the description, even though it were quite different from what in my limited imagination I envision.

Ancient sailors described mermaids. These became envisioned as half woman and half fish. Thought to be mythical. But we now know they were describing Manatees and duagongs and the descriptions were accurate, The myths came about from those who never saw a manatee and tried to envision one based on the verbal descriptions.

[aadil77]

I'm saying that its invalid for ME so can anyone make it valid for ME?

Second of all, The Quran says that Allah enjoined on us what was enjoined on previous generations especially Salat,Zakat and Fasting so either the previous generations performed Salat 50 times or didn't perform Salat at all until the command for Salat came at the event of Mi'raj as suggested by the Hadith.

The new command for salah was a seperate issue, the command for previous generations is irrelevent. We know previous generations did not pray 50 times a day because everytime Rasulullah went back and forth to Allah, prophet Musa would tell him that this amount of salah is too much for the ummah, so clearly if a previous messenger knows thats its too much, its obvious previous generations will not have prayed 50 times a day.

Like I said, the miracles, the angels and jinns have a reason to be mentioned and plus these things are in the Quran so yes they are valid and that Allah did took His servant for a ride as the Quran (Mi'raj), all valid and good but there is no mention of Buraq which is a big detail of the story or Allah giving the command of Salat as I suggested above , Salat wasn't something new but I keep hearing about Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) riding a flying winged-beast as the event of Mi'raj without any evidence from the Quran and the event as an explanation for 5 Salats (and I only heard the Buraq to have a woman face plus it is drawn that way but again no Quranic support)

Why is it soo hard to accept that the Buraq exists? Allah has His reasons for eveything, if we don't know, we shouldn't question. It would make sense for the greatest prophet to travel to the heavens on another amazing creation of Allah. Allah has blessed the prophet in many ways, do you think He would not want his prophet to visit Him in a comfortable manner?

Regarding evidence from the Quran, many events in the Quran are described in vague detail, you usually look to the hadith to find the reast of the details. Salah is mentioned in the Quran, but does the Quran tell you how to pray? So be careful not to reject hadith, this is an act of kufr

Secondly, Jesus (PBUH) mentioned as a sign of the hour and say not to doubt about it. Well I interpret it as Jesus (PBUH) resurrecting the dead as a proof that Allah can resurrect the dead and WILL resurrect you all on the Hour of Resurrection so have no doubt about the Hour, not the return of Christ being a sign of the Hour (it doesn't necessary mean that Jesus (PBUH) would descend from the heavens and all otherwise the Quran would have made it clear.)

What is there to interpret? You should quit trying to interpret, clearly you have very little knowledge

The hadith regarding the descent of prophet Isa clearly mention that he will kill dajjal, kill the pigs and destroy, how do you interpret these events if you believe he will not descend to earth?

[جوري]

The events that came from the Isra'a and Miraj which are unraveling as we speak are what is important to us. The means are of 'ilm ilghyeb. Read the first two verses of suret al-Baqara... a part of faith is that as you take parts that you make visible sense, you also believe in the unseen.. else you can't really allege to believe in God..

[GreyKode]

From what I know, jews prayed 3 times a day not five.

Second, the hadith as I recall speaks about how moses(pbuh) told the prophet muhammad(pbuh) that the people won't take it (50 prayers) as his people couldn't. Bani israel as referenced in the Qur'an are not the same as the jews that lived in madina (referenced as ahl al kitab).
I beleive what the Qur'an mentioned about the generation that came after them (bani israel) who didn't care for their prayers and lost them, and followed their desires applies to the jews of the time prophet muhammad(pbuh).

I am open to corrections about the first point, however I am quite sure that jews pray 3 prayers nowadays not five.

[Saad17]

The new command for salah was a seperate issue, the command for previous generations is irrelevent. We know previous generations did not pray 50 times a day because everytime Rasulullah went back and forth to Allah, prophet Musa would tell him that this amount of salah is too much for the ummah, so clearly if a previous messenger knows thats its too much, its obvious previous generations will not have prayed 50 times a day.

Only Hazrat Musa (PBUH) knew due to his experience of Children of Israel, not other messengers but what I'm saying is that this Hadith is suggesting that number of Salah is introduced just now but let me clarify, are you saying that the previous generation performed salah less than 5? in other words that they had it easy or they weren't remembering Allah as much as we , if they performed more than 5 salah then we are remembering Allah lesser but as the Quran says that Allah is only enjoining on you what has been enjoined on previous generations so what we are following, is the fundamental teaching of every messenger.

Why is it soo hard to accept that the Buraq exists? Allah has His reasons for eveything, if we don't know, we shouldn't question. It would make sense for the greatest prophet to travel to the heavens on another amazing creation of Allah. Allah has blessed the prophet in many ways, do you think He would not want his prophet to visit Him in a comfortable manner?

According to some narrators of this same Hadith, Buraq isn't even mentioned, only tells how Hazrat Jibrael took the hand of the Prophet (PBUH) and took him toward the heavens which sounds reasonable but according Allah the event of Mi'raj is when Prophet (PBUH) was taken to Jerusalem and show him the signs of Allah.

Regarding evidence from the Quran, many events in the Quran are described in vague detail, you usually look to the hadith to find the reast of the details. Salah is mentioned in the Quran, but does the Quran tell you how to pray? So be careful not to reject hadith, this is an act of kufr

Yes but Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said to leave what you feel to be doubtful but nonetheless if Hadith tells you about something that isn't even in the Quran, would you follow it.

Beside I don't know why your pulling the anti-quranist move, Hadith doesn't mention how to pray, its the practical teachings of Prophet (PBUH) witnessed and passed down from generation to generation which is the Sunnah and Prophet (PBUH) told us to follow the Sunnah and Quran in order to suceed.

What is there to interpret? You should quit trying to interpret, clearly you have very little knowledge

The hadith regarding the descent of prophet Isa clearly mention that he will kill dajjal, kill the pigs and destroy, how do you interpret these events if you believe he will not descend to earth?

Quit....trying to interpret? If we stop interpreting then maybe I think you should look for the donkey of Dajjal which flys at the speed of clouds, Of course we have interpret some things because I don't wanna see Jesus (PBUH) coming down to save us all and then face the destruction before the Day of resurrected and then resurrected the THIRD time but nonetheless Allah is ENOUGH, you don't need a Savior.

[GreyKode]

I agree with aadil here. Your attempt to interpret is both flawed and misguided. why?

Flawed because you are want to take your word versus stronger evidence which is hadith and tafasir, unless you are a sunnah denier.

Misguided, you are following your whims while interpreting, not only that, your interpretation is also far-fetched, proof of resurrection as mentioned by ALLAH(swt) himself(swt) is found NUMEROUS times in the Qur'an in other places, infact in several surahs it is the main theme. like surah Qaf.
and ayat like {wa daraba lana mathalan wa nasiya khalqah} {Qala man yuhyi al ithama wa hiya rameem} {Qul yuhyiha allathi ansha'ha awwala marra....}

[Saad17]

I agree with aadil here. Your attempt to interpret is both flawed and misguided. why?

Flawed because you are want to take your word versus stronger evidence which is hadith and tafasir, unless you are a sunnah denier.

Misguided, you are following your whims while interpreting, not only that, your interpretation is also far-fetched, proof of resurrection as mentioned by ALLAH(swt) himself(swt) is found NUMEROUS times in the Qur'an in other places, infact in several surahs it is the main theme. like surah Qaf.
and ayat like {wa daraba lana mathalan wa nasiya khalqah} {Qala man yuhyi al ithama wa hiya rameem} {Qul yuhyiha allathi ansha'ha awwala marra....}

But aadil is bashing me from the beginning. Is that if I express some doubt or a raise a question, I'm labeled as an misguided, arrogant and ignorant which most of you guys have a habit of doing to certain people who deserve better.

Jesus (PBUH) was witnessed by the Jews so Allah is telling the Jews and the Christians that Day of Resurrection is no joke plus you have Jesus (PBUH) as a clear sign that Allah has the power to resurrect so compare to the analogy giving to the Arabs of dry land becoming alive, the Children of Israel were under more pressure because they have seen Allah in action through Jesus (PBUH) and he was no earthly miracle but a straight undeniable sign , thats why Allah says not to have any doubt about it. Beside its not exactly my interpretation , it is suggested by good scholar however you can't disprove my interpretation.

[Saad17]

I agree with aadil here. Your attempt to interpret is both flawed and misguided. why?

Flawed because you are want to take your word versus stronger evidence which is hadith and tafasir, unless you are a sunnah denier.

Misguided, you are following your whims while interpreting, not only that, your interpretation is also far-fetched, proof of resurrection as mentioned by ALLAH(swt) himself(swt) is found NUMEROUS times in the Qur'an in other places, infact in several surahs it is the main theme. like surah Qaf.
and ayat like {wa daraba lana mathalan wa nasiya khalqah} {Qala man yuhyi al ithama wa hiya rameem} {Qul yuhyiha allathi ansha'ha awwala marra....}

But aadil is bashing me from the beginning. Is that if I express some doubt or a raise a question, I'm labeled as an misguided, arrogant and ignorant which most of you guys have a habit of doing to certain people who deserve better.

Jesus (PBUH) was witnessed by the Jews so Allah is telling the Jews and the Christians that Day of Resurrection is no joke plus you have Jesus (PBUH) as a clear sign that Allah has the power to resurrect so compare to the analogy giving to the Arabs of dry land becoming alive, the Children of Israel were under more pressure because they have seen Allah in action through Jesus (PBUH) and he was no earthly miracle but a straight undeniable sign , thats why Allah says not to have any doubt about it. Beside its not exactly my interpretation , it is suggested by good scholar however you can't disprove my interpretation.

P.S: I'm taking the Word of Allah as my evidence.

[GreyKode]

But aadil is bashing me from the beginning. Is that if I express some doubt or a raise a question, I'm labeled as an misguided, arrogant and ignorant which most of you guys have a habit of doing to certain people who deserve better.

I sincerely apologize to you if I sounded abusive, this wasn't my intent. I was only trying to correct the mistakes i noticed. Also I believe brother aadil didn't mean any ill-intent

Jesus (PBUH) was witnessed by the Jews so Allah is telling the Jews and the Christians that Day of Resurrection is no joke plus you have Jesus (PBUH) as a clear sign that Allah has the power to resurrect so compare to the analogy giving to the Arabs of dry land becoming alive, the Children of Israel were under more pressure because they have seen Allah in action through Jesus (PBUH) and he was no earthly miracle but a straight undeniable sign , thats why Allah says not to have any doubt about it. Beside its not exactly my interpretation , it is suggested by good scholar however you can't disprove my interpretation.

P.S: I'm taking the Word of Allah as my evidence.

{wainnahu la'alamun lil sa'a}, {And he is a sign of the judgement day} Even if your interpretation is correct, what will u do about the ahadith? Do u find them contradicting with this ayah in anyway

[aadil77]

'Anti-quranist' lol, you're giving off signs of a typical hadith rejector

You're rejecting authentic hadiths because either you don't want to beleive in them or you're too embarrassed of what non muslims might think of them, such as the hudud punishment for apostacy - as you've demonstrated in another thread

May Allah guide you

[أبو سليمان عمر]

subhan Allah since when did IB get a self appointed scholars of hadith and a mufasir akhi i advice you to fear Allah and take the Command of Allah if you dont know about a matter ask Ahl al-dhikr the people of knowledge Just becasue you dont want to picture the buraq doesnt make a diffence the hadith is sahih and the scholars of hadith have went out of there way to chek them to have a jahil come and try to use his own thought about t also understand that the scholars of hadth all say this hadith is sahih you ask why would Allah do that this is from His hikmah and this is from the unseen and none of your reason really is a vaild reason so it seems as though you just dont want to believe and that is a bad sign on you akhi i ask Allah to guide you ameen all your reasons are I CANT PICTURE" how do you know how many rakahs to pray what time to pray how much zakat to pay that surat al fatih is to be read at the begining of every rakah etc

[أبو سليمان عمر]

But aadil is bashing me from the beginning. Is that if I express some doubt or a raise a question, I'm labeled as an misguided, arrogant and ignorant which most of you guys have a habit of doing to certain people who deserve better.

no its not that you rasied the question is that you asked a question with an agenda which why you are misguided arrogant and ignorant

[أبو سليمان عمر]

Quit....trying to interpret? If we stop interpreting then maybe I think you should look for the donkey of Dajjal which flys at the speed of clouds, Of course we have interpret some things because I don't wanna see Jesus (PBUH) coming down to save us all and then face the destruction before the Day of resurrected and then resurrected the THIRD time but nonetheless Allah is ENOUGH, you don't need a Savior.

so every amr adel and saad can just pick up a quran and make his own tafsir follow his own whims and desires etc SO YES YOU NEED TO LOOK AT THE people of knowldge and see what they say not what your little knowldge havng self thinks

[جوري]

no its not that you rasied the question is that you asked a question with an agenda which why you are misguided arrogant and ignorant

I believe he is a Hindu, see his comments on the reincarnation thread .. which apparently he finds just and sensical!

:w:

[M.I.A.]

The new command for salah was a seperate issue, the command for previous generations is irrelevent. We know previous generations did not pray 50 times a day because everytime Rasulullah went back and forth to Allah, prophet Musa would tell him that this amount of salah is too much for the ummah, so clearly if a previous messenger knows thats its too much, its obvious previous generations will not have prayed 50 times a day.



Why is it soo hard to accept that the Buraq exists? Allah has His reasons for eveything, if we don't know, we shouldn't question. It would make sense for the greatest prophet to travel to the heavens on another amazing creation of Allah. Allah has blessed the prophet in many ways, do you think He would not want his prophet to visit Him in a comfortable manner?

Regarding evidence from the Quran, many events in the Quran are described in vague detail, you usually look to the hadith to find the reast of the details. Salah is mentioned in the Quran, but does the Quran tell you how to pray? So be careful not to reject hadith, this is an act of kufr



What is there to interpret? You should quit trying to interpret, clearly you have very little knowledge

The hadith regarding the descent of prophet Isa clearly mention that he will kill dajjal, kill the pigs and destroy, how do you interpret these events if you believe he will not descend to earth?

asalaam allaayqum

loosly paraphrased it does say that if you fear an enemy then pray in any way you see fit, but when you reach a place of safety then pray in the manner appointed by the prophet saw.

what that manner is for certain i do not know but i guess even if we are praying wrong then it will be accepted with the correct intention.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Assalam-O-Alaikum

:w:

I find this Hadith to be false in the sense that.
1. I don't believe Allah would make such a creature mean of transport, a winged creature (with a face of a woman?). It just sounds a little ridiculous, I mean virgin birth of Jesus (PBUH) or 600 winged form of Angel Gabriel sounds very interesting or at least are considered to be valid information about someone we are aware of but mentioning the Buraq sounds pointless to me. Maybe it exists but I don't wanna picture something like Pegasus the winged horse or so.

Since when do the hadeeth need to conform to your notions of what is 'ridiculous' or 'interesting'? Let me break it to you, just because it seems 'pointless' to you has no bearing on whether it is authentic or not. We don't base our religion on what a random individual deems belief-worthy or not. The problem here isn't the narration, it's completely acceptable based upon evidence to myself and the millions of Muslims who lived for the past 1400+ years.

There's really no other way to say it except please get over yourself. Your dislikes about something or unease about something in the agreed upon Islamic texts is of absolutely no consequence on its validity - which has been established for close to a millennium and a half of not just regular people but including them and a plethora of scholarship. Do you realize that your argument is basically rehashed anti-hadeeth rhetoric?

Therefore, there is no reason to even discuss the text because the problem is not in it. Rather, it is in the individual who has no idea of how to approach the Islamic sciences. So the question is how do you approach sacred knowledge? Lesson one is a commandment from the Qur'aan,

يا أيها الذين آمنوا لا تقدموا بين يدي الله ورسوله واتقوا الله إن الله سميع عليم. يا أيها الذين آمنوا لا ترفعوا أصواتكم فوق صوت النبي ولا تجهروا له بالقول كجهر بعضكم لبعض أن تحبط أعمالكم وأنتم لا تشعرون

2. The event where Allah would lower the number of Salat on constant request of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is not correct since according to the Quran the number of prayers are 5 and the Jews did pray 5 times during and before the time of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) so Salat isn't anything new, the method and the timing are the same for all generations. So according to this event, I would say that this Hadith is invalid.

Again this is irrelevant. But I'm willing to take it seriously if you can please provide me the verse from the Qur'an that unequivocally states the five prayers?

because a thing this big is not in the Quran then its not reliable

Firstly, this is simply false logic that is unheard of through a millennium and a half of Islamic scholarship. And because you're claiming this, you'll need to provide evidence from the Qur'an itself that this is a valid approach to understanding the Qur'an; the burden of proof is upon the claimant. If you cannot, and I'll save you the trouble, you won't be able to because the Qur'an's logic is exactly the opposite then there is no reason to respond to your argument because the asl itself is invalid. Prove your premise and then we'll talk.

Secondly, to give a small example of how ridiculous this approach to the Qur'an is let me ask you a question. In the Qur'an, Allaah says:

وإذ أسر النبي إلى بعض أزواجه حديثا فلما نبأت به وأظهره الله عليه عرف بعضه وأعرض عن بعض فلما نبأها به قالت من أنبأك هذا قال نبأني العليم الخبير

In which verse in the Qur'an was the Messenger (saw) informed about this important incident?

(same goes for the Al-Mehdi or Second coming of Christ , exception to Dajjal since we do witness his/it's presence)

As for this we've already had a thread on this in the past. The ahadeeth are on the Mahdi are mutawatir so no need to even go into this useless debate. You can read up here on that and the descent of Isa' (as):

http://www.islamicboard.com/miscella...tml#post448730

[M.I.A.]

sorry bro i couldnt read that without zers and zabbers,
maybe better if you could post translations for those of us that cant read or understand arabic.



jazak allah khair.

[aadil77]

sorry bro i couldnt read that without zers and zabbers,
maybe better if you could post translations for those of us that cant read or understand arabic.



jazak allah khair.

I think that was meant to be a challenge for saad17 since he thinks he's some scholar of islam

[Ramadhan]

what that manner is for certain i do not know but i guess even if we are praying wrong then it will be accepted with the correct intention.

The manner of shalah is explained in DETAILS in many hadiths shahih and hasan.

I am surprised you did not know this.

Otherwise, how do you think that all muslims come to pray in a similar way, more than a billion of them, and 1,400 years long.

[Saad17]

:sl:


Sometime we make things more complicated than they need be. We really only know that the Baraq was a creature that had never been seen by human eyes before and possibly will never be seen again, we are getting a human description of something that probably can not be described fully in human terms.

When we look at things never seen before and try to describe them to people that never saw them. the person hearing the description often conjecture up an unreliable image. Yet the description can be understood and is sufficient for others to recognize the creature if they ever do happen to see it.

In just human terms look at the early description of things like whales, kangaroos, giraffes to people that never saw them and tried to draw pictures of them. Old biology text books look quite ridiculous, and the descriptions can sound quite bizarre, until a person sees for themselves the creature described.

I have never seen a Baraq and doubt if I ever will. I really can not even imagine what it would look like. Yet based upon the description if I ever saw one I am certain I would know it was a Baraq based upon the description, even though it were quite different from what in my limited imagination I envision.

Ancient sailors described mermaids. These became envisioned as half woman and half fish. Thought to be mythical. But we now know they were describing Manatees and duagongs and the descriptions were accurate, The myths came about from those who never saw a manatee and tried to envision one based on the verbal descriptions.

Now this is the only reasonable answer I have found.
Thank you Woodrow.

You guys should be like Woodrow.

Since I don't see a better answer, feel free to lock this thread.

P.S: I have been labeled a misguided, arrogant, ignorant, Hindu, hadith-rejecter, sunnah-rejecter and only-quranist in a single thread! A new record, not even non-Muslims I met labeled me so much.

[aadil77]

Now this is the only reasonable answer I have found.
Thank you Woodrow.

You guys should be like Woodrow.

Since I don't see a better answer, feel free to lock this thread.

P.S: I have been labeled a misguided, arrogant, ignorant, Hindu, hadith-rejecter, sunnah-rejecter and only-quranist in a single thread! A new record, not even non-Muslims I met labeled me so much.

next time try asking a question, instead of imposing your deviant views and agenda at the same time

[Saad17]

next time try asking a question, instead of imposing your deviant views and agenda at the same time

I call Allah as a witness that I don't think I'm a scholar , I'm not imposing my views on anyone nor any agenda for I don't have any agenda and I was asking a question.

But do you believe that making guesses about me, jumping to conclusions (that I think I am a scholar) and bashing me is a good thing? Is this how you address people you find different? Seriously, you're no different than the Non-Muslims calling me terrorist or a Satan-worshiper :cry:.

[aadil77]

I call Allah as a witness that I don't think I'm a scholar , I'm not imposing my views on anyone nor any agenda for I don't have any agenda and I was asking a question.

But do you believe that making guesses about me, jumping to conclusions (that I think I am a scholar) and bashing me is a good thing? Is this how you address people you find different? Seriously, you're no different than the Non-Muslims calling me terrorist or a Satan-worshiper :cry:.

Allah knows best, but think carefully about how you ask questions next time

Did you think about how traditional muslims would feel when reading such views?:

1. I don't believe Allah would make such a creature mean of transport, a winged creature (with a face of a woman?). It just sounds a little ridiculous, I mean virgin birth of Jesus (PBUH) or 600 winged form of Angel Gabriel sounds very interesting or at least are considered to be valid information about someone we are aware of but mentioning the Buraq sounds pointless to me. Maybe it exists but I don't wanna picture something like Pegasus the winged horse or so.
2. The event where Allah would lower the number of Salat on constant request of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is not correct since according to the Quran the number of prayers are 5 and the Jews did pray 5 times during and before the time of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) so Salat isn't anything new, the method and the timing are the same for all generations. So according to this event, I would say that this Hadith is invalid.

Its not about whether you're different, you are free to ask questions, we're all here to gain knowledge - none of us are scholars here. But there's a manner and ettiquette to asking questions, you shouldn't have included your personal opinions along with those questions - some members will find those opinions very offensive - especially coming from another muslim.

:sl:

[Woodrow]

I believe this thread has gone far enough.

:threadclo: