Beating knife crime

[jimbo123]

It really makes me sick how every time I read the news, there is a story about youth stabbings. A lot of the time it's over something trivial, like standing up to a hoodie who is picking on the elderly or chucking litter on your car.

The worst thing about this is that people are afraid to act. When you see something terrible happen you have to right a wrong but these days people are terrified that if they stand up to anyone they'll get stabbed or beaten to death. My mother tells me "Just ignore these people and they'll go away otherwise they might harass us". It is sensible advice but what are the consequences? Sooner or later that gang will go on to do worse things.

To deal with knife crime in my own life and to minimize it on a national level, Islamically what is the best course of action to take?

I take self defense classes. I'm still a beginner so if I was in a situation with 4 big lads I would run like the roadrunner! But if I was with my mum or my nephew or any other loved one, running isn't really an option. My view is that if every single person learnt self defense in school (maybe as part of the curriculum) we would have less of these kind of crimes.

[Perseveranze]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

Well brother, this reminds me of a certain hadith;

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever among you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand [by taking action]; and if he cannot, then with his tongue [by speaking out]; and if he cannot, then with his heart [by feeling that it is wrong] – and that is the weakest of faith.” (Narrated by Muslim, 49)

I personally am not sure what the Islamic advice is, but my advice is to be careful since if you do anything your own life could be in danger. At the very least, they aren't stopping you from doing your Islamic duties such as Praying or going to the Mosque. Regarding the Hadith, I would certainly speak out against it, since it is evil and injustice, tell someone with some kind of authority like the Council or Police or something?

Also try not to get angry;

Abu Hurairah related that the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam, said:

"A strong person is not the person who throws his adversaries to the ground. A strong person is the person who contains himself when he is angry." [Al-Bukhari; Book 47, No. 47.3.12]

Well, that's the best I can say, I hope this problem is somehow resolved and someone with the right authority does take action.

ps. self-defence class is also very good and should be encouraged.

[Amoeba]

I find it very sad that nowadays, especially in the UK, the police will do very little if anything at all until someone ends up seriously hurt/killed, only then do they act. I'm speaking of harassments, threats and even small scuffles - they just don't do much at all even when it's clear the problem is likely to persist or escalate. I'm NOT saying it's not worth trying, but many people have already been down that avenue with no positive result.

Like you, I just don't know what to do. Whenever something goes on sometimes the police don't even come out. One example being when kids were firing fireworks horizontally across a public area that people were trying to cross. They didn't even show up. Alhamdulilah nobody was hurt as far as I am aware, but it was still highly irresponsible of the police to not even check it out. Then you're left wondering, "should I have done something more?". It's a helpless feeling.

[jimbo123]

yeah I think the police are just really busy and stretched thin. I know of a similar incident where there was a car robbery and police didn't turn up.

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[ChargerCarl]

Where do you live OP? Just wondering.

[jimbo123]

London. I have a feeling this knife crime phenomena is limited to UK. Places like America they'd have guns instead right?

[ChargerCarl]

Yeah, pretty much. Japan and China have similar knife crime problems to the UK also.

[GuestFellow]

It really makes me sick how every time I read the news, there is a story about youth stabbings. A lot of the time it's over something trivial, like standing up to a hoodie who is picking on the elderly or chucking litter on your car.

:sl:

The criminal justice system lacks deterrence, this is one factor. The punishments are too lenient and some people are no longer afraid of being punished. Prisoners are treated better than homeless people, which makes me very angry. I usually see homeless people in town and I can't imagine what they are going through. I even heard some prisoners are allowed to vote...next minute prisons will start arranging trips to the dairy farm. If corporeal punishment was introduced again, crime rate might decrease.

[gohar98]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

Well brother, this reminds me of a certain hadith;

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever among you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand [by taking action]; and if he cannot, then with his tongue [by speaking out]; and if he cannot, then with his heart [by feeling that it is wrong] – and that is the weakest of faith.” (Narrated by Muslim, 49)

I personally am not sure what the Islamic advice is, but my advice is to be careful since if you do anything your own life could be in danger. At the very least, they aren't stopping you from doing your Islamic duties such as Praying or going to the Mosque. Regarding the Hadith, I would certainly speak out against it, since it is evil and injustice, tell someone with some kind of authority like the Council or Police or something?

Also try not to get angry;

Abu Hurairah related that the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam, said:

"A strong person is not the person who throws his adversaries to the ground. A strong person is the person who contains himself when he is angry." [Al-Bukhari; Book 47, No. 47.3.12]

Well, that's the best I can say, I hope this problem is somehow resolved and someone with the right authority does take action.

ps. self-defence class is also very good and should be encouraged.

Yes, that`s right. Sometimes we are so powerless, that we can only clench sou teeth or fist but we are not strong enough to stop something.

[ChargerCarl]

:sl:

The criminal justice system lacks deterrence, this is one factor. The punishments are too lenient and some people are no longer afraid of being punished. Prisoners are treated better than homeless people, which makes me very angry. I usually see homeless people in town and I can't imagine what they are going through. I even heard some prisoners are allowed to vote...next minute prisons will start arranging trips to the dairy farm. If corporeal punishment was introduced again, crime rate might decrease.

I don't know how it is in the UK, but in the US convicted felons lose their right to vote

[GuestFellow]

I don't know how it is in the UK, but in the US convicted felons lose their right to vote

I haven't been keeping up with the news but there was a proposal to allow prisoners to vote.

Senior Conservative calls for prison vote debate

What are the prisons like in the US?

[ChargerCarl]

I haven't been keeping up with the news but there was a proposal to allow prisoners to vote.

Senior Conservative calls for prison vote debate

What are the prisons like in the US?

Pretty nightmarish places, especially for a caucasion person like myself. I don't know how they compare with other countries though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL9nYbS1jBg

Thats the largest one in my state

[GuestFellow]

Pretty nightmarish places, especially for a caucasion person like myself.

How come? :skeleton:

I don't know how they compare with other countries though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL9nYbS1jBg

Thats the largest one in my state

It looks like a interesting documentary. Thanks for posting. I'll watch it when I have some time.

[nature]

Prisoners are treated better than homeless people, which makes me very angry. I usually see homeless people in town and I can't imagine what they are going through.

:sl:
Have you seen how prisoners are treated nowadays ? they have the works. I read something in the newspaper at the weekend about how prisoners actually got christmas pressies ? that worked out £25 per person ? seriously whats the point ? Im all for re-educating people and helping them gain qualifications etc, for making themselves better people wen they get released, but providing them with gyms/and pressies, just takes the biscuit.

It really makes me sick how every time I read the news, there is a story about youth stabbings. A lot of the time it's over something trivial, like standing up to a hoodie who is picking on the elderly or chucking litter on your car.

Its so easy, & these yobs that carry knifes are fearless. they dont care who they hurt. What i find sad, is wen your in a situation and theres a massive bloke, who does/says nothing, yet some elderely dear, stands up for someone.

The worst thing about this is that people are afraid to act. When you see something terrible happen you have to right a wrong but these days people are terrified that if they stand up to anyone they'll get stabbed or beaten to death.

Theres a lot of stories about "have a go heroes" only to have tried, but failed and being killed. Its sad, but thats the way the world is nowadays.
:wa:

[titus]

I lived in London for a few months and had a place above a shop on the High Street of the area I worked. One night the pub a couple of buildings down let out and there were about 20 kids all out on the street. Eventually some fights started and police started showing up. Despite the presence of the police the kids kept starting the occasional scuffle and were being extremely rude to the police. More and more police started showing up until there were about eight of them. Still the scuffling continued and the police did nothing other than try and separate people when they started.

This went on for almost an hour.

The whole time me and my wife kept asking each other "Why don't the police do something about this? Here you have multiple instances of people assaulting each other in front of the police and they did nothing. We were saying to each other that if this had been back home in Texas it would have been over in about 5 minutes.

No wonder the hooligans in the area felt they could do anything they want. If the police won't do anything to them then why should they obey laws or show any common decency if they don't want to?

I found it ironic that one of my employees in England said she was afraid to visit the United States because of all the crime (too much television I expect), yet I never felt more unsafe in my life than when I lived there.

[Watcher888]

2 Timothy 3 (Amplified Bible)

2 Timothy 3

1BUT UNDERSTAND this, that in the last days will come (set in) perilous times of great stress and trouble [hard to deal with and hard to bear]. 2For people will be lovers of self and [utterly] self-centered, lovers of money and aroused by an inordinate [greedy] desire for wealth, proud and arrogant and contemptuous boasters. They will be abusive (blasphemous, scoffing), disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy and profane.
3[They will be] without natural [human] affection (callous and inhuman), relentless (admitting of no truce or appeasement); [they will be] slanderers (false accusers, troublemakers), intemperate and loose in morals and conduct, uncontrolled and fierce, haters of good.
4[They will be] treacherous [betrayers], rash, [and] inflated with self-conceit. [They will be] lovers of sensual pleasures and vain amusements more than and rather than lovers of God.
5For [although] they hold a form of piety (true religion), they deny and reject and are strangers to the power of it [their conduct belies the genuineness of their profession]. Avoid [all] such people [turn away from them].

This scripture talks about false outwardly relgious types(fake christians)!
How much more will the completely Godless unbelievers be as lawless, can only be imagined!
But, juding by history, Godless communists, nazis, pagans, polytheists etc., there is no hope for this lost world!
When the Anti-christ comes to power, in the full power of Satan!
It is destined for the Final Judgement of the Last Day!

[glo]

A young Muslim lad was recently stabbed in our community - apparently a case of mistaken identity.
It has made young people and friends (Muslims and non-Muslims) come together to speak out against knife crime.

They even made a rap song: http://www.itv.com/anglia/death-sparks-campaign26177/

[Watcher888]

A young Muslim lad was recently stabbed in our community - apparently a case of mistaken identity.
It has made young people and friends (Muslims and non-Muslims) come together to speak out against knife crime.

They even made a rap song:

Link removed.
Yes very sad and tragic!
But, no amount of campaigns will stop itimsad
Lawlessness will increase!

[glo]

^
I am not so pessimistic, Watcher.
I am greatly encouraged by young people wanting to stand up and speak out against knife crime. I hope and pray that they will be able to make a better future.

Giving up, because we think the End Times might be upon us simply doesn't seem good enough.
We are to do the best we can and keep God's commandments until the last moments. Nobody knows the day or the hour.

[Watcher888]

^
I am not so pessimistic, Watcher.
I am greatly encouraged by young people wanting to stand up and speak out against knife crime. I hope and pray that they will be able to make a better future.

Giving up, because we think the End Times might be upon us simply doesn't seem good enough.
We are to do the best we can and keep God's commandments until the last moments. Nobody knows the day or the hour.

Not being pessimistic, just a realist!
And I quoted scripture, to show that as time goes by, the world is destined to get worse!
I'm all for positive thinking and hope, but it has to be realistic and in light of scripture foretelling otherwise.
Do not see that humans of their own freewill and power overcoming the fallen nature, which is so so powerful!
Hence the need for Christ's sacrifice!
Yes, the unsaved can change a bit, but being good alone does not get you to heaven!
2 Corinthians 5:17 (Amplified Bible)

17Therefore if any person is [ingrafted] in Christ (the Messiah) he is a new creation (a new creature altogether); the old [previous moral and spiritual condition] has passed away. Behold, the fresh and new has come!


Galatians 6:15 (Amplified Bible)

15For neither is circumcision [now] of any importance, nor uncircumcision, but [only] a new creation [the result of a new birth and a new nature in Christ Jesus, the Messiah].

This is not achieved by following any religion, or law!

Romans 10:4 (Amplified Bible)

4For Christ is the end of the Law [the limit at which it ceases to be, for the Law leads up to Him Who is the fulfillment of its types, and in Him the purpose which it was designed to accomplish is fulfilled. That is, the purpose of the Law is fulfilled in Him] as the means of righteousness (right relationship to God) for everyone who trusts in and adheres to and relies on Him.



Galatians 2:19-21 (Amplified Bible)

19For I through the Law [under the operation of the curse of the Law] have [in Christ's death for me] myself died to the Law and all the Law's demands upon me, so that I may [henceforth] live to and for God.
20I have been crucified with Christ [in Him I have shared His crucifixion]; it is no longer I who live, but Christ (the Messiah) lives in me; and the life I now live in the body I live by faith in (by adherence to and reliance on and complete trust in) the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
21[Therefore, I do not treat God's gracious gift as something of minor importance and defeat its very purpose]; I do not set aside and invalidate and frustrate and nullify the grace (unmerited favor) of God. For if justification (righteousness, acquittal from guilt) comes through [observing the ritual of] the Law, then Christ (the Messiah) died groundlessly and to no purpose and in vain. [His death was then wholly superfluous.]

[jimbo123]

It is true, even in Islam there are prophecies about how towards the end of time sins will increase so much and then Dajjal will come. Even if this doesn't happen in our lifetime, Allah will judge every single action that we do!

Have you ever heard of the phrase 'Think globally, act locally'? Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses that they can use to help the world. One person might become a politician to increase punishment to criminals, another person might teach self defense to a group of people and one of those students might be really good at it and become a night time vigilante!

[Watcher888]

It is true, even in Islam there are prophecies about how towards the end of time sins will increase so much and then Dajjal will come. Even if this doesn't happen in our lifetime, Allah will judge every single action that we do!

Have you ever heard of the phrase 'Think globally, act locally'? Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses that they can use to help the world. One person might become a politician to increase punishment to criminals, another person might teach self defense to a group of people and one of those students might be really good at it and become a night time vigilante!

I understand the sentiment and aspiration!
But, for starters vigilantism is dangerous and also illegal as I understand it!

I differentiate between the kingdom of heaven(light) and the kingdom of this world(darkness.)

And I do not follow a 'social gospel' as it were!
Just hoping to see the unsaved 'saved' as individuals, who then join the family of God!
Not changing people, to make the world a better place!