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S.Belle
01-15-2011, 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by glo
But I have heard from some Muslims who have a problem with non-Muslims using the term Allah to describe God. What are your thoughts on that?
Originally Posted by Mila
Ive heard that as well but personally it doesnt bother me bc well at least they know that Allah is God. Some non muslims think Allah is a sun/moon god that muslims worship or for instance my mom got asked by this lady ''So Muhammad (pbuh) is your God and Allah is ur prophet?''.
It may get a bit confusing when a non muslim refers to God as Allah bc u may think they're muslims when they are not but i see it more of respect/understanding for Islam.
Thought this was a really GREAT question and didnt want another thread to be thrown off topic
what are your thoughts?

Remember be respectful :D
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Woodrow
01-15-2011, 04:21 PM
I feel that all people, Muslim or non-Muslims who pray to the One Monotheistic God(swt) revealed through Adam (as), Musa(as) Ibrahim(as) Isa(as) and all of the True Prophets(PBUT) should use the true name of Allaah(swt). It was the name used by the early Jews, Christians and Sabeeans and is the name they should have always kept.

As a side note I am personally upset at the use of the name god after finding it's origin and what it actually means. Allaah(swt) is not god and should not be called god by any people, just my opinion. I can understand many non-Muslims will disagree with me on this, but I will stick to my opinion.
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Musalman
01-15-2011, 04:44 PM
God is one. And is the only Creator called Allah. So if the non-muslims refer to God as Allah, I don`t see that how they are wrong?
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S.Belle
01-15-2011, 04:46 PM
Salams bro Woodrow
if you dont mind could you please explain what you mean
what is origin of the name God?
what about shahada
I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is His servant and messenger
To be muslim you must believe this but doesnt that contradict what you just said
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Allaah(swt) is not god and should not be called god by any people
im not trying to argue im just confused at your post so please explain to me your thoughts.
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YusufNoor
01-15-2011, 05:13 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
I feel that all people, Muslim or non-Muslims who pray to the One Monotheistic God(swt) revealed through Adam (as), Musa(as) Ibrahim(as) Isa(as) and all of the True Prophets(PBUT) should use the true name of Allaah(swt). It was the name used by the early Jews, Christians and Sabeeans and is the name they should have always kept.

As a side note I am personally upset at the use of the name god after finding it's origin and what it actually means. Allaah(swt) is not god and should not be called god by any people, just my opinion. I can understand many non-Muslims will disagree with me on this, but I will stick to my opinion.
:sl:

i'm thinking me and Uncle are in agreement.

let's look at the thread title:

Non muslims referring to God as Allah
it seems to imply that Allah's name in really God and that we are the only ones with this [seemingly foolish] name.

the question, as i see it:

what do you think of non-Muslims who call Allah Allah? the answer? well, it IS HIS Name!!

now if you ask, "what do you think of non-Muslims who call Allah God?" it seems to be a bit of an insult, as they have other gods. i prefer the special name.

Uncle, if you have info on "the name god after finding it's origin and what it actually means," please post it!

:wa:
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IAmZamzam
01-15-2011, 05:14 PM
Uh, doesn't the name "Allah" long predate the time of our religion?
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Woodrow
01-15-2011, 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by Mila
Salams bro Woodrow
if you dont mind could you please explain what you mean
what is origin of the name God?
what about shahada
I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is His servant and messenger
To be muslim you must believe this but doesnt that contradict what you just said

im not trying to argue im just confused at your post so please explain to me your thoughts.
:wa:

Well to understand the English word god you need to understand it's origin. It comes from the Germanic word Gott (Originally Gad) and originally did not refer to Allaah(swt). The German people were pagans and of Indo-European heritage the language is of considerable Hindu influence. One of the manifestations of the Hindu deity Vishnu was called Gad and this was one of the pagan gods worshiped by the early Teutonic tribes of Germany. God eventually came to mean deity in English the name God as applied as a name for the God of the Christians came about in about the year 800 but did not show in print in the English language bible until the year 1611. Through the works of Shakespeare and the 1611 version of the KJV the word God(swt) became popularized as the name for the one god. Although in a few of his plays Shakespeare did use the term Gadzooks (in old English "Gad's Zuks" meaning God's Hooks), Medieval slang and somewhat blasphemous reference to the nails of the crucifixion. But there you can fully see the use of the old Hindu Pagan name Gad

In the shahadah La'ilah translates more closely to "There is no diety" The lower case, not capitalized word god, in common English

what about shahada
I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is His servant and messenger

The word God should not be capitalized. It is god(generally accepted as meaning deity) so when the Shahadah is written in English it should be written as : I bear witness that there is no god but Allaah and that Muhammad is His servant and messenger. In which case there is no mistaking of God as being the name of the god.
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gohar98
01-15-2011, 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
:wa:

Well to understand the English word god you need to understand it's origin. It comes from the Germanic word Gott (Originally Gad) and originally did not refer to Allaah(swt). The German people were pagans and of Indo-European heritage the language is of considerable Hindu influence. One of the manifestations of the Hindu deity Vishnu was called Gad and this was one of the pagan gods worshiped by the early Teutonic tribes of Germany. God eventually came to mean deity in English the name God as applied as a name for the God of the Christians came about in about the year 800 but did not show in print in the English language bible until the year 1611. Through the works of Shakespeare and the 1611 version of the KJV the word God(swt) became popularized as the name for the one god. Although in a few of his plays Shakespeare did use the term Gadzooks (in old English "Gad's Zuks" meaning God's Hooks), Medieval slang and somewhat blasphemous reference to the nails of the crucifixion. But there you can fully see the use of the old Hindu Pagan name Gad

In the shahadah La'ilah translates more closely to "There is no diety" The lower case, not capitalized word god, in common English

what about shahada
I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is His servant and messenger

The word God should not be capitalized. It is god(generally accepted as meaning deity) so when the Shahadah is written in English it should be written as : I bear witness that there is no god but Allaah and that Muhammad is His servant and messenger. In which case there is no mistaking of God as being the name of the god.
Thanks for informing. I really didn`t know about the greek word and it`s origin.
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S.Belle
01-15-2011, 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Well to understand the English word god you need to understand it's origin. It comes from the Germanic word Gott (Originally Gad) and originally did not refer to Allaah(swt). The German people were pagans and of Indo-European heritage the language is of considerable Hindu influence. One of the manifestations of the Hindu deity Vishnu was called Gad and this was one of the pagan gods worshiped by the early Teutonic tribes of Germany. God eventually came to mean deity in English the name God as applied as a name for the God of the Christians came about in about the year 800 but did not show in print in the English language bible until the year 1611. Through the works of Shakespeare and the 1611 version of the KJV the word God(swt) became popularized as the name for the one god. Although in a few of his plays Shakespeare did use the term Gadzooks (in old English "Gad's Zuks" meaning God's Hooks), Medieval slang and somewhat blasphemous reference to the nails of the crucifixion. But there you can fully see the use of the old Hindu Pagan name Gad

In the shahadah La'ilah translates more closely to "There is no diety" The lower case, not capitalized word god, in common English

what about shahada
I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is His servant and messenger

The word God should not be capitalized. It is god(generally accepted as meaning deity) so when the Shahadah is written in English it should be written as : I bear witness that there is no god but Allaah and that Muhammad is His servant and messenger. In which case there is no mistaking of God as being the name of the god.
Oh ok I understand now Jazakallah Khair
Reply

Perseveranze
01-15-2011, 06:44 PM
Asalaamu Alaikum,

It's fine if Non-Muslims want to use the word Allah, just hope they understand what it means, thats all.
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glo
01-15-2011, 07:56 PM
Woodrow, going with your definition that god means deity, would you say that 'Allah' is the name of the one true god? Or his title/role? Or how else would you describe it?

I am trying to get my head round how 'Allah' is different from 'God' ...

My personal view would be that god = deity, which might mean all sorts of different things for different people from different faiths.
'God' in Christianity (in my opinion) means the one true God, the God of Abraham, the deity which Jews refer to as 'Yahweh' and Muslims as 'Allah'.

Therefore, in my mind they are the same.
When I pray I could use the term God or Yahweh or indeed Allah, and still address the same deity.
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Amat Allah
01-15-2011, 08:15 PM
"Allah" is the same word used by Christian Arabs and Jewish Arabs in their Bible, centuries before Islam came
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Woodrow
01-15-2011, 10:17 PM
Originally Posted by glo
Woodrow, going with your definition that god means deity, would you say that 'Allah' is the name of the one true god? Or his title/role? Or how else would you describe it?

I am trying to get my head round how 'Allah' is different from 'God' ...

My personal view would be that god = deity, which might mean all sorts of different things for different people from different faiths.
'God' in Christianity (in my opinion) means the one true God, the God of Abraham, the deity which Jews refer to as 'Yahweh' and Muslims as 'Allah'.

Therefore, in my mind they are the same.
When I pray I could use the term God or Yahweh or indeed Allah, and still address the same deity.
Peace Glo,

As a title it means "The one true Diety with no partners, offspring or equals". It is also a Proper name as a name it contains at a minimum all of the 99 names mentioned in the Qur'an. if you ever see a written calligraphy of the Asma ul Hamsa ((99 Names of Allaah)



100 names

99 names plus ONE Allaah
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YusufNoor
01-19-2011, 03:19 PM
Originally Posted by glo
Woodrow, going with your definition that god means deity, would you say that 'Allah' is the name of the one true god? Or his title/role? Or how else would you describe it?

I am trying to get my head round how 'Allah' is different from 'God' ...

My personal view would be that god = deity, which might mean all sorts of different things for different people from different faiths.
'God' in Christianity (in my opinion) means the one true God, the God of Abraham, the deity which Jews refer to as 'Yahweh' and Muslims as 'Allah'.

Therefore, in my mind they are the same.
When I pray I could use the term God or Yahweh or indeed Allah, and still address the same deity.
:sl:

the term "god" in Arabic is ilah. ilah also denotes something that you worship, whether deservedly or not, only that you imagine it so.

Allah is a contraction of Al ilah, according to some scholars, which means THE ONLY ONE WORTHY OF ALL WORSHIP

thus la ilaha illallah means:

there is nothing worthy of worship along with nothing that you imagine of being worthy of worship is actually worthy of worship EXCEPT for the ONE AND ONLY ONE Who is Worthy Of ALL Worship.

thus Allah is closer in meaning to "The One True God" as opposed to just god.

:wa:
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Pygoscelis
01-19-2011, 03:45 PM
What else would we call your God? Why would anybody be upset about us calling your God by the name you assign your God? It distinguishes your conception of God from those of other religions. If I speak of Allah you know I am speaking of Islam. That anybody would object to that just seems peculiar.
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Perseveranze
01-19-2011, 03:53 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
What else would we call your God? Why would anybody be upset about us calling your God by the name you assign your God? It distinguishes your conception of God from those of other religions. If I speak of Allah you know I am speaking of Islam. That anybody would object to that just seems peculiar.
Peace,

If we got upset, then so would the Jews/Christians and thiests that refer to "God" as "Allah". Don't know where you come with the "your God" conclusion from.
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Hamza Asadullah
01-19-2011, 03:53 PM
Asalaamu alaikum, When i was in Egypt recently we visited an old coptic church in Cairo with our tour guide called the "hanging church" which has some significance to Christians and is sacred to them.

When i came towards the entrance i saw written on top of the entrance "La ilaha ilallah" and was quite surprised. Christians in Egypt also call god "Allah" and repeat the first part of our kalima but not the second part referring to our Prophet ( Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam).

In the past after the ascension of Isa (AlaihiSalaam) the true Christians believed in the kalima "La ilaha ilallah" until Constantine who was only ever concerned with power, wiped out true Christianity and from the huge influence of paganism from the greeks he along with others integrated paganism into Christianity and this is the Christianity we have today. A christianity which is now so far from the true message of monothiesm which was propogated by all Prophets including Isa (AlaihiSalaam).

May all of mankind have the FULL kalima on their lips and hearts. Ameen
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K.Venugopal
03-28-2011, 05:30 PM
Allah is an Arabic word for God. So when anyone speaks of God in Arabic, he would naturally use the word Allah. Thus, the word God and Allah are generic in English and Arabic respectively. What precise concepts we have of these words would depend on the religion we follow.
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Ami
03-28-2011, 06:27 PM
I think it is really important that non Muslims talk about Allah because as I realised more and more people are foreign to the idea that Allah is God. I was talking to my friend who is Christian who thought that Allah was a separate god that only Muslims believe in. I was really shocked as I thought everyone just presumed that the arabic word for God is Allah.
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Fivesolas
03-28-2011, 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by Ami
I think it is really important that non Muslims talk about Allah because as I realised more and more people are foreign to the idea that Allah is God. I was talking to my friend who is Christian who thought that Allah was a separate god that only Muslims believe in. I was really shocked as I thought everyone just presumed that the arabic word for God is Allah.
I am responding in general here, but your response sheds some light on mine...so that is why I am quoting you. If I take the idea that the term Allah is simply the generic Arabic word for God, then your statement could read, "..I realised more adn more people are foreign to the idea that God is God."

I think the most judicious assessment of the situation is to recognize that words have denotative and connotative meanings. We must also recognize that the meaning of words change over time and come to have a variety of meanings. How many remember that the word law denotes that which is laid, or that the terms "right" and "wrong," which are now completely moral in their nature, originally signified crooked and straight.

Denotatively (definitional), the term Allah is the generic word for God, with no specific reference to any particular God. Connotatively (implied), it seems clear that the word Allah has come to reference the God of Islam specifically. Let me illustrated this by a question. Would the Shahadah be acceptable if an English confessor said, "There is no God but God..." I would think not.

It appears to me that the term Allah has taken the meaning of a proper noun, rather than just a noun. Allah has become the proper name of God.

For this reason as an English speaking Christian I do not use the word Allah to reference the true God. Used anywhere in my country, it would always invoke the idea of the Islamic God, not the God of the Bible. If this situation isn't the case in other nations/cultures, then I could understand their use of the word Allah. But in English, the generic word for God is God, and should be translated as such as to avoid confusion.
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Woodrow
03-28-2011, 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
I am responding in general here, but your response sheds some light on mine...so that is why I am quoting you. If I take the idea that the term Allah is simply the generic Arabic word for God, then your statement could read, "..I realised more adn more people are foreign to the idea that God is God."

I think the most judicious assessment of the situation is to recognize that words have denotative and connotative meanings. We must also recognize that the meaning of words change over time and come to have a variety of meanings. How many remember that the word law denotes that which is laid, or that the terms "right" and "wrong," which are now completely moral in their nature, originally signified crooked and straight.

Denotatively (definitional), the term Allah is the generic word for God, with no specific reference to any particular God. Connotatively (implied), it seems clear that the word Allah has come to reference the God of Islam specifically. Let me illustrated this by a question. Would the Shahadah be acceptable if an English confessor said, "There is no God but God..." I would think not.

It appears to me that the term Allah has taken the meaning of a proper noun, rather than just a noun. Allah has become the proper name of God.

For this reason as an English speaking Christian I do not use the word Allah to reference the true God. Used anywhere in my country, it would always invoke the idea of the Islamic God, not the God of the Bible. If this situation isn't the case in other nations/cultures, then I could understand their use of the word Allah. But in English, the generic word for God is God, and should be translated as such as to avoid confusion.
Just to answer one part. Yes the Shahadah can be acceptable if a person says it in their native language with full sincerity. Remember the Shahadah can be said alone with only Allaah(swt) as the witness. Allaah(swt) does know the intent in the person's heart, the exact wording of what the shahadah means need not be in any particular language, when the person is speaking to Allaah(swt) alone as Allaah(swt) knows all. I would imagine that some people have uttered a sincere recitation on their death bed in only the words they know. While we are encouraged to repeat the Shahadah in Arabic before witnesses, we are still Muslim from the second we said the Shahadah in sincerity, no matter what language we said it in.
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Fivesolas
03-28-2011, 08:08 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Just to answer one part. Yes the Shahadah can be acceptable if a person says it in their native language with full sincerity. Remember the Shahadah can be said alone with only Allaah(swt) as the witness. Allaah(swt) does know the intent in the person's heart, the exact wording of what the shahadah means need not be in any particular language, when the person is speaking to Allaah(swt) alone as Allaah(swt) knows all. I would imagine that some people have uttered a sincere recitation on their death bed in only the words they know. While we are encouraged to repeat the Shahadah in Arabic before witnesses, we are still Muslim from the second we said the Shahadah in sincerity, no matter what language we said it in.
ok.

Would you agree as to the word Allah though? For example, in your explaination to me you refer to God using the word Allah, rather than the English "God." Do you agree that the reason for this is that the term Allah has come to have a stricter connotation in how its been used than just a generic name for God?
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Woodrow
03-28-2011, 08:43 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
ok.

Would you agree as to the word Allah though? For example, in your explaination to me you refer to God using the word Allah, rather than the English "God." Do you agree that the reason for this is that the term Allah has come to have a stricter connotation in how its been used than just a generic name for God?
Allaah(swt) is a specific name. It is of the same root as the Hebrew Elohim and the Aramaic Eli. Actually all three are written with the same letters Alif Lam Hah and the letters correspond in all 3 languages. It is a specific name in the 3 languages and does not correspond to the generic god. There is a word in Arabic that does refer to a generic god and that is Ilah. But none of the Hebrew, Aramaic or Arabic speaking Christians use the word Ilah, they all use the specific Name Allaah(swt)
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Ami
03-28-2011, 09:41 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
it would always invoke the idea of the Islamic God, not the God of the Bible. If this situation isn't the case in other nations/cultures, then I could understand their use of the word Allah. But in English, the generic word for God is God, and should be translated as such as to avoid confusion.
Well my point was that people think the word Allah is just reserved for Muslims and that is why as Muslims we need to clear this misconception. Allah is One. Christians in arabic speaking countries also call God, Allah. It is fine with me if one wants to say God/Allah but I just would like to say that non Muslims can use the word Allah if they wish. I also do not think it causes a lot of confusion when people are aware of this.
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Little_Lion
03-28-2011, 09:44 PM
My husband says Allah all the time, interchangeably with God, the Divine, the One, etc. He does this not only out of respect for me (even though I tell him he doesn't have to), and to get into the habit of saying it in the Middle East, but because he believes (as I do) that since there is only One God, what (acceptable) name you call Him by should make no difference - obviously you shouldn't call Him something like Ralph just for the heck of it ;) ; He knows what is in your heart, and your love for Him should be evident whichever name crosses your lips.

Regardless, I take no offense that he refers to Him as Allah. It is His Name, after all, why would I be offended?
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Fivesolas
03-28-2011, 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Allaah(swt) is a specific name. It is of the same root as the Hebrew Elohim and the Aramaic Eli. Actually all three are written with the same letters Alif Lam Hah and the letters correspond in all 3 languages. It is a specific name in the 3 languages and does not correspond to the generic god. There is a word in Arabic that does refer to a generic god and that is Ilah. But none of the Hebrew, Aramaic or Arabic speaking Christians use the word Ilah, they all use the specific Name Allaah(swt)
According to the Hebew Lexicon by Gesenius, Elohim is the generic word for God. It is used of the true God (Genesis 1:1; Deut. 32:15) and of false god(s) Exodus 32:1. If Elohim has the same root as the Arabic as you suggest (I am not a master of semitic languages), then it would indicate that it is indeed generic.

But the point is this: it's not the root of the word that gives it its meaning, but its use. As I mentioned before, the meaning of a word can dramatically change over time. The word Allah has come to be used as a proper noun. The word is no longer neutral, but refers to the God of Islam.
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Fivesolas
03-28-2011, 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by Ami
Well my point was that people think the word Allah is just reserved for Muslims and that is why as Muslims we need to clear this misconception. Allah is One. Christians in arabic speaking countries also call God, Allah. It is fine with me if one wants to say God/Allah but I just would like to say that non Muslims can use the word Allah if they wish. I also do not think it causes a lot of confusion when people are aware of this.
Maybe in Arabic speaking nations it does not cause confusion. I am not sure. I have never lived there. I can really only speak from my own culture. In the USA it would cause serious confusion.
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Fivesolas
03-28-2011, 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by Little_Lion
My husband says Allah all the time, interchangeably with God, the Divine, the One, etc. He does this not only out of respect for me (even though I tell him he doesn't have to), and to get into the habit of saying it in the Middle East, but because he believes (as I do) that since there is only One God, what (acceptable) name you call Him by should make no difference - obviously you shouldn't call Him something like Ralph just for the heck of it ;) ; He knows what is in your heart, and your love for Him should be evident whichever name crosses your lips.

Regardless, I take no offense that he refers to Him as Allah. It is His Name, after all, why would I be offended?
Thanks for this reply. It does illustrate the point I have been making, namely that the Arabic word Allah has come to taken the meaning and use of a proper noun, and not a generic term.
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Ami
03-28-2011, 10:50 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
Maybe in Arabic speaking nations it does not cause confusion. I am not sure. I have never lived there. I can really only speak from my own culture. In the USA it would cause serious confusion.
I also do not live in an arabic speaking country also , I live in as they call the west..it wouldnt cause confusion at all if people were educated about it...people in the USA can be open minded to learn so I disagree with you there...
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Fivesolas
03-28-2011, 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by Ami
I also do not live in an arabic speaking country also , I live in as they call the west..it wouldnt cause confusion at all if people were educated about it...people in the USA can be open minded to learn so I disagree with you there...
Ok Ami. Maybe you should try an experiment and use both. I would bet that those who heard you use the word Allah would make the assumption that you are Muslim. If I went to church and started using the word Allah for God, they would ask questions.

What I am basing my opinion on is the use of words or language. Hermeneutically its referred to as the usus loquendi. Again, the denotative meaning may be "God" but the connotation is the Islamic God. I would think anyone can recognize that.
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YusufNoor
03-28-2011, 11:29 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
According to the Hebew Lexicon by Gesenius, Elohim is the generic word for God. It is used of the true God (Genesis 1:1; Deut. 32:15) and of false god(s) Exodus 32:1. If Elohim has the same root as the Arabic as you suggest (I am not a master of semitic languages), then it would indicate that it is indeed generic.

But the point is this: it's not the root of the word that gives it its meaning, but its use. As I mentioned before, the meaning of a word can dramatically change over time. The word Allah has come to be used as a proper noun. The word is no longer neutral, but refers to the God of Islam.
this is ignorance, plain and simple. Allah is a combination of al and ilah; together they mean the One and ONLY One Who is worthy of ALL Worship. is is the Arabic equivalent of "The One True God. it was used by the Arabians BEFORE Islam. Allah in NOT "the god of Islam," Allah is Rabbil Alamin, the Creator, Cherisher, Sustainer, Nourisher, Protector and Healer of ALL that has been created.

it is your kuffar mind and way of thinking that attempts to limit the definition of Allah. it is because your mind is enveloped in shirk that your thinking is marred. you CANNOT imagine a single indivisible God who exists outside and above His creation, without partners.

you are the one who wishes Allah diminished, but that is why the hellfire awaits you unless stop trying to deny Allah AS DEFINED by the Messengers.

it is your choice most certainly...

i truly don't understand ANY Muslim who has a problem with ANYONE calling Allah by the name Allah.

chow
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Ami
03-28-2011, 11:52 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
Ok Ami. Maybe you should try an experiment and use both. I would bet that those who heard you use the word Allah would make the assumption that you are Muslim. If I went to church and started using the word Allah for God, they would ask questions.
I do use both terms all the time. And you can see from my other posts that I recognised most people think Allah is just for Islam and I said as Muslims we need to let people know it isn't and that non Muslims can use it if they wish. I don't think it's really a big deal whatever term you use and I was just answering the question can non muslims refer to God as Allah and yes they can.
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MustafaMc
03-29-2011, 03:14 AM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
The word Allah has come to be used as a proper noun.
Yes, of course it is a proper noun for a specific Being as opposed to a generic term that can be applied to many beings.
The word is no longer neutral, but refers to the God of Islam.
Words are of course not the thing or entity that is being referred to, but rather merely tools or instruments of communication to convey concepts and meanings to others. Your statement implying that 'Allah is the God of Islam' can be rephrased as both 'YHWH is the God of Judaism' and 'Trinity is the God of Christianity'. I used 'Trinity' to convey the Christian concept of God rather than 'Father' because I believe it more thoroughly conveys the Christian concept of the one they worship rather than the singular word 'Father' even though I believe that Allah, YHWH and Father all refer to the same Divine Being. Trinity conveys one meaning distinct from Father which also conveys a different meaning from Jesus and Holy Spirit. The words that we use (YHWH, Allah or Father) do not change the fact that God is One, however god means anything that is worshiped beside The God, or Allah, if you please.
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Fivesolas
03-29-2011, 04:40 AM
I think the point has been made. And I agree with MustafaMC with regard to words conveying meaning. This is why as Christian it does not seem proper to me to use the word Allah for the true God.
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Woodrow
03-29-2011, 04:50 AM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
I think the point has been made. And I agree with MustafaMC with regard to words conveying meaning. This is why as Christian it does not seem proper to me to use the word Allah for the true God.
Then who is God? No where in the Abrahamic faith has the Deity ever been called God. Some day you may wish to look up the origin of the name God.
Reply

Fivesolas
03-29-2011, 05:10 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Then who is God? No where in the Abrahamic faith has the Deity ever been called God. Some day you may wish to look up the origin of the name God.
I have actually studied this from the Hebrew Scriptures. There is one study of tracing etymology, and another of meaning. Knowing the etymology of a word does not equal having the meaning. My comments related mainly to how words are used today.

YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah is the most often used name of God in the OT. There is 6,519 references to this name. Others names/words used for the true God are El Shaddai, El Elyon, Adoni, Jehovah-Nissi/Raah/Rapha/Shammah/Tsidkenu/Mekoddishkem/Jireh/Shalom/Saboth, El Olam, Elohim, and Qanna.

An examination of the Scriptures of the prophets shows that God revealed His Name not just to identify Himself, but also to reveal His character as well.

Blue Letter Bible. The Names of God in the Old Testament. Blue Letter Bible. 1 Apr 2002. 29 Mar 2011.
<http://blueletterbible.org/study/misc/name_god.html>.
Reply

Woodrow
03-29-2011, 05:16 AM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
I have actually studied this from the Hebrew Scriptures. There is one study of tracing etymology, and another of meaning. Knowing the etymology of a word does not equal having the meaning. My comments related mainly to how words are used today.

YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah is the most often used name of God in the OT. There is 6,519 references to this name. Others names/words used for the true God are El Shaddai, El Elyon, Adoni, Jehovah-Nissi/Raah/Rapha/Shammah/Tsidkenu/Mekoddishkem/Jireh/Shalom/Saboth, El Olam, Elohim, and Qanna.

An examination of the Scriptures of the prophets shows that God revealed His Name not just to identify Himself, but also to reveal His character as well.

Blue Letter Bible. The Names of God in the Old Testament. Blue Letter Bible. 1 Apr 2002. 29 Mar 2011.
<http://blueletterbible.org/study/misc/name_god.html>.
Then why and how did you come to call him God and exactly what does the word God mean? Is not the Name Allaah(swt) more in agreement with the Christian concept of God, then the name God is?
Reply

Ramadhan
03-29-2011, 07:18 AM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
I think the point has been made. And I agree with MustafaMC with regard to words conveying meaning. This is why as Christian it does not seem proper to me to use the word Allah for the true God.

Really. I wonder what Indonesian christians would say about that.
Many Indonesian christians (I dont know what their denominations) also interchangeably use "Allah" to refer to God, often with addition such as "Allah Bapa" (God the father), although interestingly they don't refer jesus (pbuh) as Allah.
So, at least according to Indonesian christians, there is a hierarchy in Godship, with Allah (The father) acts as the supreme God, and jesus as the lesser god. Im not sure where they place the spirit.
Reply

Ami
03-29-2011, 08:33 AM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
This is why as Christian it does not seem proper to me to use the word Allah for the true God.
Christians elsewhere would disagree with that.
Reply

Ramadhan
03-29-2011, 08:44 AM
Originally Posted by Ami
Christians elsewhere would disagree with that.

And the christians in Jerusalem, the birthplace of Fivesolas' god, say Allah for God.
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K.Venugopal
03-29-2011, 11:42 AM
Words are products of language with general meaning, while specific meanings in a language are products of culture. The words of all languages when spoken in another language would mean the same. The word Allah in Arabic would mean the same as the word God in English or Ishwar in Sanskrit. But the same words used in Islamic, Christian or Hindu culture would mean differently in each to the extent that each word would then have a specific connotation. So the word Allah when used as part of expressing oneself in Arabic would have a generic meaning and when used as part of expressing oneself in the context of Islam would have a specific meaning. This distinction ought to be kept in mind, otherwise it would lead to confusion.
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Perseveranze
03-29-2011, 12:34 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
I think the point has been made. And I agree with MustafaMC with regard to words conveying meaning. This is why as Christian it does not seem proper to me to use the word Allah for the true God.
Not suprised at the arrogance, either that or you didn't know Jesus(pbuh) used to call God, Allah aswell, or more specifically sounding as Ellah (hebrew).

Some motivation :thumbs_up

Reply

Woodrow
03-29-2011, 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
I think the point has been made. And I agree with MustafaMC with regard to words conveying meaning. This is why as Christian it does not seem proper to me to use the word Allah for the true God.
While you may be more comfortable in using the name God(swt) over Allaah(swt), that does not mean they are 2 separate deities. There is but one God(swt) and all those of the true Abrahamic, Monotheistic, Faiths (Jew, Sabian, Christian and Muslim) worship the same One. We do argue and differ about how we worship and do disagree often over the nature of Allaah(swt) but we do understand that there is One true God(swt) and it is the same God(swt) revealed through all of the True Prophets(PBUT).

Possibly you do worship the American created God who appeared in the 1860s in the minds of Pentecostals and Fundamentalist, Bible based, self proclaimed Evangelists and Ministers. If that is your case I will agree with you that you do not Worship Allaah(swt)

What makes you think the English speaking God of Fundamental/Pentecostal Americans is the True god? The God(swt) that began appearing in America during the 1860s and rapidly spreading into over 23,000 denominations does not seem to be the same God(swt) worshiped by Jesus(as). America has Americanized God and created a Bible based series of religions that adhere to new interpretations that satisfy the individual Pastors/Ministers/etc of the newly formed denominations.

Fortunately there is still hope for most of the world's Christians as they do recognize that Allaah(swt) and God(swt) are the same and that all the True Abrahamic faiths do worship the same God(swt). Perhaps one day they will accept the Qur'an.
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Fivesolas
03-29-2011, 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
While you may be more comfortable in using the name God(swt) over Allaah(swt), that does not mean they are 2 separate deities. There is but one God(swt) and all those of the true Abrahamic, Monotheistic, Faiths (Jew, Sabian, Christian and Muslim) worship the same One. We do argue and differ about how we worship and do disagree often over the nature of Allaah(swt) but we do understand that there is One true God(swt) and it is the same God(swt) revealed through all of the True Prophets(PBUT).

Possibly you do worship the American created God who appeared in the 1860s in the minds of Pentecostals and Fundamentalist, Bible based, self proclaimed Evangelists and Ministers. If that is your case I will agree with you that you do not Worship Allaah(swt)

What makes you think the English speaking God of Fundamental/Pentecostal Americans is the True god? The God(swt) that began appearing in America during the 1860s and rapidly spreading into over 23,000 denominations does not seem to be the same God(swt) worshiped by Jesus(as). America has Americanized God and created a Bible based series of religions that adhere to new interpretations that satisfy the individual Pastors/Ministers/etc of the newly formed denominations.

Fortunately there is still hope for most of the world's Christians as they do recognize that Allaah(swt) and God(swt) are the same and that all the True Abrahamic faiths do worship the same God(swt). Perhaps one day they will accept the Qur'an.
I worship and serve, and will not deny, the God of the Bible. This is He who created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them. This is He who called Abram and led him out of his country and took him to a land that He would show him. To him the true God gave the covenant of circumcision. From him came Isaac and Jacob, and from Jacob the 12 patriarchs. And God's promise and covenant was with Isaac and Jacob (Israel).

I worship He who delivered Joseph out of his oppression when his brothers sold him into slavery out envy and jeoulsy because God's promise was to him and not to his brothers. I worship Him who spoke to Moses from the burning bush in the wilderness of Sinai who spoke to Him saying, "I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob."

This God led His people out of bondage to Egypt by an outstretched arm with great power and signs which He did before the all the people.

This God has spoken in times past and in various ways by the mouth of His prophets, has in these last days glorified His Son Jesus Christ, who was delieverd up and crucified, but God raised Him from the dead. The prophets foretold the coming and sufferings of Christ, and the glory that would follow. All this God has fulfilled. And now He commands all men everywhere to turn from their sin and to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ that you might receive the forgiveness of sins and everlasting life in His Name. For there is no other name given among men by which we must be saved but the name of Jesus.

All of the prophets have foretold these things, and this promise is not only to Israel, but as to as many who would call upon the name of the Lord, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile. By Him, Jesus, all that believe are justified from all things, from which we could not be justified by the Law of Moses. We also should take a clear warning from the prophets who said, "Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you."

This is whom I serve and worship.
Reply

Fivesolas
03-29-2011, 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by Perseveranze
Not suprised at the arrogance, either that or you didn't know Jesus(pbuh) used to call God, Allah aswell, or more specifically sounding as Ellah (hebrew).

Some motivation :thumbs_up


Given that you do not believe that Jesus was crucified, how is it that you can assert that He called God Allah while on the cross?
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Fivesolas
03-29-2011, 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by naidamar


Really. I wonder what Indonesian christians would say about that.
Many Indonesian christians (I dont know what their denominations) also interchangeably use "Allah" to refer to God, often with addition such as "Allah Bapa" (God the father), although interestingly they don't refer jesus (pbuh) as Allah.
So, at least according to Indonesian christians, there is a hierarchy in Godship, with Allah (The father) acts as the supreme God, and jesus as the lesser god. Im not sure where they place the spirit.
Perhaps you should speak to them. As I said before, I was speaking from my culture, not Indonesia. I do praise God for the Indosian christians and their comfort during all their sufferings.
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Fivesolas
03-29-2011, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Then why and how did you come to call him God and exactly what does the word God mean? Is not the Name Allaah(swt) more in agreement with the Christian concept of God, then the name God is?
Woodrow,

Do you want me to answer your questions denotatively and connotatively? How has the word Allah come to be used, as a generic reference to God or gods, or as the God described by the Qur'an? Denotatively, the term Allah can refer to the true God or any god, just like Elohim can. The context would determine the meaning. But this is not the meaning that it carried predominitely today. The word Allah is used as a proper noun. I am not sure why this is hard to understand or recognize.

If you follow the link I shared, and you look at the specific meaning of the various words used for God in the OT. The Islamic understanding of God is not more in agreement with the Christian understanding. We both know the differences. Therefore, when you use the term "God" it bears one meaning in your mind, and another in mine. When you use the word Allah, you are being more specific than generic. The word Allah has come to represent much more than a generic name for God.

Therefore it seems a confusion to me should I use the term Allah in reference to God.
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Woodrow
03-29-2011, 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
Given that you do not believe that Jesus was crucified, how is it that you can assert that He called God Allah while on the cross?
We do not believe he called God(swt) Allaah(swt) at the Crucifixtion although since he spoke Aramaic and worshiped the true God(swt) it is a reasonable assumption he would have often used the name Allaah(swt). that is a Christian belief. But it does show that the early Christians did recognize the name of God(swt) as being Allaah(swt)
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Fivesolas
03-29-2011, 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
We do not believe he called God(swt) Allaah(swt) at the Crucifixtion although since he spoke Aramaic and worshiped the true God(swt) it is a reasonable assumption he would have often used the name Allaah(swt). that is a Christian belief. But it does show that the early Christians did recognize the name of God(swt) as being Allaah(swt)
Hey Woodrow,

I am not sure what is still being disagreed upon. I am not saying the the word Allah isn't the arabic word for God. My main point is the use of it today and its connotation. Is that what is being disagreed upon?
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Perseveranze
03-29-2011, 03:30 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
Given that you do not believe that Jesus was crucified, how is it that you can assert that He called God Allah while on the cross?
Never said anything about the cross. Here's someone you believe to be God or Son of God, calling another Deity Allah(swt).

Just saying, if Jesus(pbuh) said it, then ofcourse you'll find many Christians say it aswell, especially Arab Christians.
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Woodrow
03-29-2011, 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
Woodrow,

Do you want me to answer your questions denotatively and connotatively? How has the word Allah come to be used, as a generic reference to God or gods, or as the God described by the Qur'an? Denotatively, the term Allah can refer to the true God or any god, just like Elohim can. The context would determine the meaning. But this is not the meaning that it carried predominitely today. The word Allah is used as a proper noun. I am not sure why this is hard to understand or recognize.

If you follow the link I shared, and you look at the specific meaning of the various words used for God in the OT. The Islamic understanding of God is not more in agreement with the Christian understanding. We both know the differences. Therefore, when you use the term "God" it bears one meaning in your mind, and another in mine. When you use the word Allah, you are being more specific than generic. The word Allah has come to represent much more than a generic name for God.

Therefore it seems a confusion to me should I use the term Allah in reference to God.
I agree Allaah(swt) is a proper noun and is a specific name. It is also the name used throughout the world by Arabic, Hebrew and Aramaic speaking Christians, they are Using the Name Allaah(swt) to specifically mean the capitalized name God(swt)

Allaah(swt) is God(swt) both names for a specific and same being. Ilah is god (uncapitalized) and is the generic word for god. By saying Allaah(swt) is not God(swt) you are not worshiping the same god we worship or the God worshiped by the Jews, Sabians and most Christians. You are worshiping a god invented in mid 1800s America,
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Ramadhan
03-29-2011, 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
Perhaps you should speak to them. As I said before, I was speaking from my culture, not Indonesia. I do praise God for the Indosian christians and their comfort during all their sufferings.
So Indonesian christians do not worship the same God that you worship?

Maybe you also want to praise God for the thousands of Indonesian muslims who were massacred by christians?
Im sure this kind of news does not travel to your neck of the wood.
Reply

Woodrow
03-29-2011, 03:50 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
I worship and serve, and will not deny, the God of the Bible. This is He who created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them. This is He who called Abram and led him out of his country and took him to a land that He would show him. To him the true God gave the covenant of circumcision. From him came Isaac and Jacob, and from Jacob the 12 patriarchs. And God's promise and covenant was with Isaac and Jacob (Israel).

I worship He who delivered Joseph out of his oppression when his brothers sold him into slavery out envy and jeoulsy because God's promise was to him and not to his brothers. I worship Him who spoke to Moses from the burning bush in the wilderness of Sinai who spoke to Him saying, "I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob."

This God led His people out of bondage to Egypt by an outstretched arm with great power and signs which He did before the all the people.

This is whom I serve and worship.
I agree with all you said above and that is the same God(swt) I worship.. But I disagree with this.

Originally Posted by Fivesolas
This God has spoken in times past and in various ways by the mouth of His prophets, has in these last days glorified His Son Jesus Christ, who was delieverd up and crucified, but God raised Him from the dead. The prophets foretold the coming and sufferings of Christ, and the glory that would follow. All this God has fulfilled. And now He commands all men everywhere to turn from their sin and to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ that you might receive the forgiveness of sins and everlasting life in His Name. For there is no other name given among men by which we must be saved but the name of Jesus.
You have committed a grave and very serious sin by calling Jesus(as) God(swt). In doing so you have begun the worship of someone in addition to God(swt) this is polytheism.

In your last paragraph I agree with it except for what I colored blue and made bold.

Originally Posted by Fivesolas
All of the prophets have foretold these things, and this promise is not only to Israel, but as to as many who would call upon the name of the Lord, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile. By Him, Jesus, all that believe are justified from all things, from which we could not be justified by the Law of Moses. We also should take a clear warning from the prophets who said, "Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you."
Reply

Fivesolas
03-29-2011, 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by Perseveranze
Never said anything about the cross. Here's someone you believe to be God or Son of God, calling another Deity Allah(swt).

Just saying, if Jesus(pbuh) said it, then ofcourse you'll find many Christians say it aswell, especially Arab Christians.
I don't have a problem with the arabic term, Allah, being used as a generic name for God, like Elohim is in Hebrew, or God in English. What I am saying is that the term has come to take a strictly Islamic meaning, and the use of a proper noun, and not simply a noun. If Arab Christians speak Arabic, why would they use a different term?

But the reference to Jesus using the word Allah, is a reference to speech recorded in the Bible while Jesus was hanging on the cross. He spoke the words from the cross in Aramaic. The Muslim can not make this case and, at the same time, deny that Jesus was crucified. Do you see what I am saying? You cannot claim Jesus said such and such from the cross, when you deny He died upon the cross. It wasn't Jesus hanging on the cross according to Islam, so Jesus could not have said what the Bible says he said from it.

The video you posted was from a Mel Gibson movie. The utterence Jesus made, "Eli Eli, Lama Sabachthani" This statement is cleary a quote from Psalm 22. The point being, that both in Hebrew and the LXX, they are using the word for God that is a generic noun, not a proper noun. My point is that functionally, the word Allah has come to be used as a proper noun. Originally it was a generic noun. But its usus loquendi has given it a proper noun meaning.

This is why I don't use it.
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Fivesolas
03-29-2011, 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
I agree with all you said above and that is the same God(swt) I worship.. But I disagree with this.



You have committed a grave and very serious sin by calling Jesus(as) God(swt). In doing so you have begun the worship of someone in addition to God(swt) this is polytheism.

In your last paragraph I agree with it except for what I colored blue and made bold.
On a few occasions the Jews accused Jesus of the same thing...making Himself out to be God. I consider myself in good company and will stick with Jesus.

Woodrow, you know what Christians believe. And you know their understanding of the Godhead isn't polytheism. Never once in my life have advocated the idea that there is more than one God. "Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Eḥad " Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.
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Woodrow
03-29-2011, 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
On a few occasions the Jews accused Jesus of the same thing...making Himself out to be God. I consider myself in good company and will stick with Jesus.

Woodrow, you know what Christians believe. And you know their understanding of the Godhead isn't polytheism. Never once in my life have advocated the idea that there is more than one God. "Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Eḥad " Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.
In my Christian years I never considered myself as being polytheistic. To me it was one God in three Persons. A mystery but one I accepted on Faith. However questions came:

Why did I pray different prayers to Each person?
Why did I see the Father as being the Creator?
The son as being the Forgiver?
The Holy spirit as the comforter and guide?

I could not see this separation of duties unless they were 3 separate entities. I had to admit to myself I was praying to 3 separate gods, no matter how I tried to consider them as one.
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Fivesolas
03-29-2011, 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
In my Christian years I never considered myself as being polytheistic. To me it was one God in three Persons. A mystery but one I accepted on Faith. However questions came:

Why did I pray different prayers to Each person?
Why did I see the Father as being the Creator?
The son as being the Forgiver?
The Holy spirit as the comforter and guide?

I could not see this separation of duties unless they were 3 separate entities. I had to admit to myself I was praying to 3 separate gods, no matter how I tried to consider them as one.
Interesting. I would like to know more of your story. Perhaps another time.
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Perseveranze
03-29-2011, 06:51 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
I don't have a problem with the arabic term, Allah, being used as a generic name for God, like Elohim is in Hebrew, or God in English. What I am saying is that the term has come to take a strictly Islamic meaning, and the use of a proper noun, and not simply a noun. If Arab Christians speak Arabic, why would they use a different term?

But the reference to Jesus using the word Allah, is a reference to speech recorded in the Bible while Jesus was hanging on the cross. He spoke the words from the cross in Aramaic. The Muslim can not make this case and, at the same time, deny that Jesus was crucified. Do you see what I am saying? You cannot claim Jesus said such and such from the cross, when you deny He died upon the cross. It wasn't Jesus hanging on the cross according to Islam, so Jesus could not have said what the Bible says he said from it.

The video you posted was from a Mel Gibson movie. The utterence Jesus made, "Eli Eli, Lama Sabachthani" This statement is cleary a quote from Psalm 22. The point being, that both in Hebrew and the LXX, they are using the word for God that is a generic noun, not a proper noun. My point is that functionally, the word Allah has come to be used as a proper noun. Originally it was a generic noun. But its usus loquendi has given it a proper noun meaning.

This is why I don't use it.
So your saying that Jesus(pbuh) only ever referred to God as Allah(swt) only when he was being crucified? You don't believe that not once in his life time did he refer to God as Allah before the "crucifiction"?

Also, it doesn't really matter to the Muslims on how Jesus(pbuh) referred to God as, it's just a good arguement against Christians that have a problem with using the word Allah, which is the impression I got from your earlier posts.
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Fivesolas
03-29-2011, 06:58 PM
Originally Posted by Perseveranze
So your saying that Jesus(pbuh) only ever referred to God as Allah(swt) only when he was being crucified? You don't believe that not once in his life time did he refer to God as Allah before the "crucifiction"?

Also, it doesn't really matter to the Muslims on how Jesus(pbuh) referred to God as, it's just a good arguement against Christians that have a problem with using the word Allah, which is the impression I got from your earlier posts.
So, the reason for your post wasn't to discuss the subject, but to just to try to make what you think is a good argument against Christians?

This is really simple...denotative...connotative.
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Perseveranze
03-29-2011, 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
So, the reason for your post wasn't to discuss the subject, but to just to try to make what you think is a good argument against Christians?

This is really simple...denotative...connotative.
No, your misunderstood like you did with my earlier post.

I brought that to attention because of what you said here -

This is why as Christian it does not seem proper to me to use the word Allah for the true God.
^Tell that to the millions of Christians around the world, who would use the same arguement as what I've already presented. I think it is better for you to have re-worded it to something like

"It does not seem proper for me to use the word Allah, as Muslims use that, and I seem to have a problem with words used by Muslims, regardless of meaning."
Would've made more sense.
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Fivesolas
03-29-2011, 07:21 PM
Originally Posted by Perseveranze
No, your misunderstood like you did with my earlier post.

I brought that to attention because of what you said here -

^Tell that to the millions of Christians around the world, who would use the same arguement as what I've already presented. I think it is better for you to have re-worded it to something like

Would've made more sense.
How about a talk about denotative and connotative meaning.
Reply

Perseveranze
03-29-2011, 07:32 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
How about a talk about denotative and connotative meaning.
No need to waste time, I've made my point and you've understood. Further discussion is unecassary on the subject.
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Grace Seeker
03-30-2011, 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
My point is that functionally, the word Allah has come to be used as a proper noun. Originally it was a generic noun. But its usus loquendi has given it a proper noun meaning.

This is why I don't use it.

Breaking my lenten fast and stepping in here.

Fivesolas, thank-you for clarifying why it is that you don't use Allah. I trust that this discussion has shown you that there are indeed Christians who do use the term "Allah"; to refer to the very same god (lower case chosen to indicate not using the term as a proper name) whom you and I do worship.

Woodrow, recalling one of your earlier comments, it seems that you were saying something similar with regard to why you did not feel it appropriate for a Muslim to use the term "God" when referring to Allah. Namely that it had connotations associated with some pagan diety named Gad that you did not wish to relate to Allah. That makes perfect sense. But I also know of Muslims who do use the term "God" to reference the very same one whom you worship.

Also, Woodrow, as you indicated earlier, whether you use the term "Allah" or I use the term "God" we both are at least attempting to worship the very same one who was the אֱלֹהֵי אַבְרָהָם (Elohim of Abraham) even as we have different understandings of his exact nature.

Given that no where in the Christian scriptures does the one whom Christians worship say, "my name is God" and given that in Islam the one whom Muslims worship has not one, but many names -- "He is Allah, the Creator, the Inventor of all things, the Bestower of forms. To Him belong the Best names" (59:24) -- that even though giving proper reverence is done through the use of names in both our religious traditions, still more important is actually knowing who it is that one worships. And this is not done by the name we employ.

To quote another well-known name, namely William Shakespeare: "What's in a name? that which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet." Let us remember this famous line was spoken by Juliet to Romeo in the context of a family feud:
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy; Thou art thyself, though not a Montague. What's Montague?
And because some did think that the matter of the name was of greater import than the person the story has a tragic end. Let that not be so among us who dispute the use of names herein.

For myself, I am quite comfortable using both God and Allah interchangeably depending on the context in which I happen to be, yet all the while thinking of the same one divine person who is equally creator of us all.
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Fivesolas
03-30-2011, 05:23 PM
In some ways I agree GraceSeeker, and in some ways I don't. Perhaps its my prior education in Communication. I suppose if I were among people who regarded the word Allah as a generic noun, that it was just their name for God like we use the word God, then I would be fine with it. But it has come to take the use of a proper noun. I hope everyone here knows what a proper noun is. A proper noun is a noun that represents a unique entity.

My reserach into the etymology of the term Allah suggests that it was a common noun. But as I have mentioned before, this is not its use in the world today. Today, its use is as a proper noun refering to the God of Islam, whose name is Allah.

If I am mistaken, and Allah is still simply a common noun in its general use today, then I would expect to hear the word Allah if someone is speaking Arabic, and the word God if someone is speaking english.

And let me add my opinion. I think the reason the subject is debated IS because the word Allah has indeed taken the form of a proper noun and is considered sacred and holy by Muslims. Because of the use of the word today, its parallel would no longer be Elohim in Hebrew, but YHWH.
Reply

Grace Seeker
03-30-2011, 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by Fivesolas
If I am mistaken, and Allah is still simply a common noun in its general use today, then I would expect to hear the word Allah if someone is speaking Arabic, and the word God if someone is speaking english.
And this is indeed what I do find among many persons, both Muslims and Christians.

There are of course those who do use both terms as proper nouns. Some of them would argue that even still Allah and God refer to one and the same being, and so use them interchangeably as one might use Mary and Maria. Others would hold them to refer to two different dieties -- this would be the only reason that I can see for not using the terms interchangably and what I think people are saying when they keep such a practice.
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Woodrow
03-30-2011, 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
And this is indeed what I do find among many persons, both Muslims and Christians.

There are of course those who do use both terms as proper nouns. Some of them would argue that even still Allah and God refer to one and the same being, and so use them interchangeably as one might use Mary and Maria. Others would hold them to refer to two different dieties -- this would be the only reason that I can see for not using the terms interchangably and what I think people are saying when they keep such a practice.
I agree.

Although I see Allaah(swt) as a proper name in the same way you use the Capitalized God(swt). In Arabic there are no capital letters so for the diminutive another word is used the Arabic word for lower case god is ilah. Technically Allaah(swt) is 2 word referring to Al-Lah or with all the nouns written Al-ilah and means THE GOD with the connotation of the one God.
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Grace Seeker
03-31-2011, 01:09 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
As a side note I am personally upset at the use of the name god after finding it's origin and what it actually means. Allaah(swt) is not god and should not be called god by any people, just my opinion. I can understand many non-Muslims will disagree with me on this, but I will stick to my opinion.
How do you feel about the use of the term "Dios" in Spanish speaking cultures? Especially since they have the personal "a" which would render any reference to the god a person believed in as "al Dios", inserting the definite article "the" as you have explained is the actual Arabic construction.
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Woodrow
04-01-2011, 12:39 AM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
How do you feel about the use of the term "Dios" in Spanish speaking cultures? Especially since they have the personal "a" which would render any reference to the god a person believed in as "al Dios", inserting the definite article "the" as you have explained is the actual Arabic construction.
Peace Gene,

I have no problem with that. I will even go to the point of saying that I am aware that Dios does translate into God in English. However the 2 words have very different origins. While both words are interchangeable in translations they are not the same and Dios was never Used as the name of any specific diety except the One God or as a generic god when used in the lower case dios.
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