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جوري
01-19-2011, 03:37 AM
To the tyrants of the Arab world...
Tunisians have sent a message to the Arab world, warning leaders they are no longer immune to popular anger.
Lamis Andoni Last Modified: 16 Jan 2011 10:29 GMT


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In cities across the Arab world, people have been reinvigorated by the Tunisian uprising [EPA] The Tunisian uprising, which succeeded in toppling Zine El Abidine Ben Ali, the Tunisian president, has brought down the walls of fear, erected by repression and marginalisation, thus restoring the Arab peoples' faith in their ability to demand social justice and end tyranny.

It is a warning to all leaders, whether supported by international or regional powers, that they are no longer immune to popular outcries of fury.

It is true that Ben Ali's flight from the country is just the beginning of an arduous path towards freedom. It is equally true that the achievements of the Tunisian people could still be contained or confiscated by the country's ruling elite, which is desperately clinging to power.

But the Tunisian intifada has placed the Arab world at a crossroads. If it fully succeeds in bringing real change to Tunis it will push the door wide open to freedom in Arab word. If it suffers a setback we shall witness unprecedented repression by rulers struggling to maintain their absolute grip on power.

Either way, a system that combined a starkly unequal distribution of wealth with the denial of freedoms has collapsed.

A model of tyranny

Tunis may have been an extreme example, but all Arab regimes are variations on the same model, which obediently follows Western-instructed economic 'liberalisation' while strangling human rights and civil liberties.

The West has long admired the Tunisian system, praising its "secularism" and "liberal economic policies", and, in its quest to open world markets and maximise profit, has turned a blind eye to human rights violations and the gagging of the media - two functions at which the Ben Ali regime excelled.

But Tunis, under Ben Ali, was not a model of secularism but a shameless model of tyranny. It turned "secularism" into an ideology of terror - not merely in the name of countering Islamic extremism but in an attempt to crush the spirit of opposition - Islamic, secular, liberal and socialist alike.

As with previous examples of countries it deemed to have embraced 'successful economic models', like Chile under the late dictator Augusto Pinochet, the West, particularly the US and France, backed the Ben Ali regime - prioritising forced stability over democracy.

But even when such governments remain in power for decades, thanks to Western support and a security apparatus that suppresses the people with immunity, it is only a matter of time before they come to a humiliating end.

The West, and the US in particular, has always abandoned its allies - a memorable example is the way in which Washington dropped Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the late shah of Iran, when popular anger threatened the country's stability.

The Arabs are listening

The people of Tunisia have spoken and, most significantly, the Arab people are listening.

The Tunisian protests have already triggered peaceful demonstrations in Jordan, where people have protested over inflation and government efforts to undermine political liberties and press freedoms and have demanded the departure of Samir al-Rifai, the prime minister.

The government, seemingly concerned by the unfolding developments, sought to appease popular discontent by reversing what had been the ninth increase in fuel prices since 1989. But it was too little, too late, particularly as food prices continue to rise, and Jordanians are expected to continue their demonstrations over the coming weeks.

The government would do well to learn from Tunis that repression by the security forces can no longer solve its problems and guarantee the consent of its citizens.
In Egypt, the opposition Movement for Change appears to have been reinvigorated by the events in Tunisia. And in Arab capitals, from Sana'a to Cairo, the people are sending a message to their own governments, as well as expressing their support for the Tunisian people, by organising sit-ins in front of Tunisian embassies.

Arabs of all generations are also expressing their sentiments online - not only congratulating Tunisians but also calling for similar movements in their own countries. And on Facebook, many have replaced their profile pictures with images of the Tunisian flag, as though draping themselves in the colours of an Arab revolution.

Fear and jubilation

The failure of one of the Arab world's most repressive security forces to quell people power has been met with jubilation. Bloggers have compared the event to the fall of the Berlin wall, suggesting that it will usher in a new era in which the Arab people will have a greater say in determining their future.

Mohamed Bouazizi, the young Tunisian who set himself on fire in protest against unemployment and poverty, has become a symbol of Tunisian sacrifices for freedom.

Activists across the region have called for the "Tunisation" of the Arab street - taking Tunis as a model for the assertion of people power and aspirations for social justice, the eradication of corruption and democratisation.

But the celebratory atmosphere dominating the blogosphere and wide sectors of Arab society is tainted by a prevailing sense of caution and fear: Caution because the situation in Tunis remains unclear and fear that there may be a coup d'état, which would impose security but stifle popular aspirations.
Whether the Tunisian uprising will succeed in bringing about radical reforms or be partially aborted by the ruling elite remains to be seen. But it has already empowered people across the Arab world to expose the fallacy of regimes that believe adopting a pro-Western agenda will enable them to fool their people and guarantee their longevity.

History has shown that security forces can silence people but can never crush the simmering revolt that lies beneath the ashes. Or in the words of the beloved Tunisian poet Abul-Qasim al-Shabi in his poem To the Tyrants of the World:

Wait, don't let the spring, the clearness of the sky and the shine of the morning light fool you ...
Because the darkness, the thunder's rumble and the blowing of the wind are coming toward you
from the horizon
Beware because there is a fire underneath the ash

Lamis Andoni is an analyst and commentator on Middle Eastern and Palestinian affairs.
The views expressed in this article are the author's own and do not necessarily reflect Al Jazeera's editorial policy.
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Asiyah3
01-19-2011, 09:02 AM
They have my support. The other Arab people should follow. May Allah protect them, and grant them victory and justice.
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aadil77
01-19-2011, 11:25 AM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATVVqZ9yix4

Apparently they are saying:
Standing in front of soldiers of the Tunisian army, they addressed to them: "Where are you in Palestine?, Where are you in Iraq?" "Remove the chains of the rulers from your necks, and fulfill your duties!" "Oh Muslim armies, we are ready to be with you, with our blood, our souls, and our sons! Overthrow these oppressive regimes!"
Can anyone clarify
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Perseveranze
01-19-2011, 02:41 PM
Asalaamu Alaikum,

Bring back the Kalifah :)
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ardianto
01-19-2011, 02:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
Mohamed Bouazizi, the young Tunisian who set himself on fire in protest against unemployment and poverty, has become a symbol of Tunisian sacrifices for freedom.
According to Egyptian Anshar As-Sunnah, action like this is bid'ah.

No wonder, Anshar As-Sunnah is organization that gave title "Amirul Moo'minin" to Hosni Mubarak.
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جوري
01-19-2011, 04:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
According to Egyptian Anshar As-Sunnah, action like this is bid'ah. No wonder, Anshar As-Sunnah is organization that gave title "Amirul Moo'minin" to Hosni Mubarak.

Egypt hasn't been able to rid itself of its tyrants.. history long of it.. but all evil things will come to an end..

:w:
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Mr Fussy
01-20-2011, 11:54 AM
Insha Allah all the other Islamic nations will take note and establish Kalifah.
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Issa Abdullah
01-21-2011, 10:37 PM
Insha Allah the Ummah in the Middle East will remove these tyrants, Arab Unity will take place under the Khilafah which will liberate occupied Palestine & spread Islam to the World like the old days. May Allah (SWT) send Muslim leaders like Caliph Omar ibn Al-Khattab (RA), Khalid ibn Walid (RA) – The Sword of Allah, Tariq ibn Ziyad (RA), Sultan Saladin (Salah al-Din Yusuf Ibn Ayyub) (RA) Sultan Mohamed II (Mehmed II) the Conqueror (RA) , Caliph Suleiman the Lawgiver (The Magnificent) (RA) & Caliph Abdül hamid II (RA). May Allah we pleased with them all. Muslims 4 life ALLAHU AKBAR.
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Darth Ultor
01-21-2011, 11:05 PM
Why not get rid of the House of al-Saud? Why not get rid of the "Muslim" clerics in Iran? Yes, I know they're not Arabs in Iran.
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Ramadhan
01-22-2011, 12:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Why not get rid of the House of al-Saud?
Even though House of saud themselves is not based on syariah (and their accumulation and waste of wealth is definitely against the teachings of Islam), at least they protected the practice of Islam according to syariah and sunnah, unlike the tyrants of tunisia.
But if we are to base our prediction on hadith, they too will soon not last.
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GuestFellow
01-22-2011, 12:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Why not get rid of the House of al-Saud? Why not get rid of the "Muslim" clerics in Iran? Yes, I know they're not Arabs in Iran.
I really don't have an opinion on Iran.

As for the House of Saud, I don't trust them. Positions of power should be earned, not inherited.
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Darth Ultor
01-22-2011, 12:55 AM
Trampling on human rights and disguising it as Sharia? Someone's got to, at the very least, depose them if not put them on trial and deal what justice the courts decide. It's up to God what'll happen to them in the Hereafter. I pray God forgives anyone of any religion or lack thereof who don't respect human life. Why? Because wanting to see an oppressor in Hell makes us no better than them.

But as for positions of power not being inherited, I have nothing against monarchies if the King or Queen's power is limited by a constitution and a parliament.
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GuestFellow
01-22-2011, 12:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
But as for positions of power not being inherited, I have nothing against monarchies if the King or Queen's power is limited by a constitution and a parliament.
I see no use for them.
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AhlaamBella
01-22-2011, 02:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Because wanting to see an oppressor in Hell makes us no better than them.
So, believing an oppressor such as Hitler, should be as hell makes me just as bad as him?
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yahia12
01-22-2011, 09:04 PM
democracy 1 arabworld 20 , still a long way to go ;)
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sabr*
02-01-2011, 10:11 PM
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):


It is apparent why many so-called Muslims in and from Middle East nations have supported the tyrants in the Middle East. They are the products of intellectuals and bourgeoisie who have enjoyed the privileges of studying in the west and receiving the Western financial aid that funded their worldwide travels and luxury.

It has been no secret why so called Muslims have defended these brutal regimes.

The forum is mainly silent because it would be hypocritical to now voice what was eagerly defended.

The refusal to hold the autocratic countries accountable for the brutal crimes but easily condemn their masters who have provided the financial aid.

The financial support of over thirty years to rubber stamp the peace treaty with the Occupiers of Palestine is coming home to roost.


No response required it stands on it own.
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Insecured soul
02-02-2011, 12:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
No wonder, Anshar As-Sunnah is organization that gave title "Amirul Moo'minin" to Hosni Mubarak.
Amir ul momin? he's no khalifa how can anyone call him that?

oh i guess, to please him, people usually like to be called what they are not :)
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ardianto
02-02-2011, 04:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Insecured soul
Amir ul momin? he's no khalifa how can anyone call him that?

oh i guess, to please him, people usually like to be called what they are not :)
Anshar As-Sunnah organization is enemy of Ikhwanul Muslimin. Hosni Mubarak is enemy of Ikhwanul Muslimin too.

Now, do you understand why Anshar As-Sunnah gave title 'Amir ul Mominin' to Hosni Mubarak ?.
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Insecured soul
02-03-2011, 04:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
Anshar As-Sunnah organization is enemy of Ikhwanul Muslimin. Hosni Mubarak is enemy of Ikhwanul Muslimin too.

Now, do you understand why Anshar As-Sunnah gave title 'Amir ul Mominin' to Hosni Mubarak ?.
The only thing i know is hosni is not a good leader, he is getting his own people killed just coz he wants to remain in his seat
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Darth Ultor
02-03-2011, 04:55 AM
****ing hell, Mubarak had peaceful protesters killed!
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MuslimDownunder
02-03-2011, 07:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Insecured soul
The only thing i know is hosni is not a good leader, he is getting his own people killed just coz he wants to remain in his seat
It is obvious now how much he cares for his people!
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Pygoscelis
02-07-2011, 02:59 AM
Would the people of the Arab world want democracy? Or would democracy in the Arab world simply mean theocracy, and shortly thereafter another dictatorship? I suppose it depends on where in the Arab world we speak of. Probably different in the different areas.
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جوري
02-07-2011, 03:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Would the people of the Arab world want democracy? Or would democracy in the Arab world simply mean theocracy, and shortly thereafter another dictatorship? I suppose it depends on where in the Arab world we speak of. Probably different in the different areas.

As sheikh ibrahim el-khouly stated today in his lecture.. Islam is radically more progressive than 'democracy'. If you have 50+1 usurping the the opinion of 50-1 then, that isn't a fair and just system rather another totalitarian dictatorship. In Islam Amrohoum shura bynhoum from the the head of state to the youngest child. No one is excluded and no one is unrepresented!
Now a 'democracy' by its very definition means people electing their own representative not a troika of militant despots, Zionist pigs and fundamental christian poodles.
It was only under the Muslim empire after all that any exiled individuals and especially Jews who were kicked and tortured in the 'civilized' west and even Christian west that found a fair degree of tolerance in the Muslim world..

Why do you insist on dispensing with your foolish under-educated opinion where ever you go?

all the best
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Al-Mufarridun
02-07-2011, 03:22 AM
O Allah Grant the Oppressed Victory, the Weak Victory, the Poor Victory. Verily To You, Alone, Belongs All that is in the Heavens and the Earth. Ameen!
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AhlaamBella
02-07-2011, 10:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Would the people of the Arab world want democracy? Or would democracy in the Arab world simply mean theocracy, and shortly thereafter another dictatorship? I suppose it depends on where in the Arab world we speak of. Probably different in the different areas.
Why must a theocracy lead to a dictatorship?
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Darth Ultor
02-17-2011, 12:17 AM
I know Iran isn't an Arab country, but they too are protesting the tyrants over there.
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IslamicRevival
02-17-2011, 12:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
I know Iran isn't an Arab country, but they too are protesting the tyrants over there.
You mean the sore losers who lost in the elections last time out are protesting against the Iranian government, aided by the US and its masters Israhell.
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GuestFellow
02-17-2011, 12:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
I know Iran isn't an Arab country, but they too are protesting the tyrants over there.
The Iranian government is not that bad than compared to the royal monarchies. I think some Iranians were upset about the economy...
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Darth Ultor
02-17-2011, 12:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lost Identity
You mean the sore losers who lost in the elections last time out are protesting against the Iranian government, aided by the US and its masters Israhell.
Look, just because they don't want to be governed by religion, doesn't mean they're Zionists or pro-America.
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GuestFellow
02-17-2011, 12:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Look, just because they don't want to be governed by religion, doesn't mean they're Zionists or pro-America.
Wouldn't they have been protesting against the Ayatollah? He is the one that is in charge. I think the majority of protesters wanted Mousavi rather than Ahmadinejad...and Mousavi does not promote secularism.
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Darth Ultor
02-17-2011, 12:57 AM
That was in 2009. Right now they want a change of government completely. I'm against all non-secular governments. Religion and politics don't mix because one will always influence the other and both will be corrupt.
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GuestFellow
02-17-2011, 01:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
That was in 2009. Right now they want a change of government completely.
Evidence?

I'm against all non-secular governments. Religion and politics don't mix because one will always influence the other and both will be corrupt.
It depends on what you mean by corruption. Can you give me an example?
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IslamicRevival
02-17-2011, 01:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Look, just because they don't want to be governed by religion, doesn't mean they're Zionists or pro-America.
Are you having a laugh? Who don't want to be governed by Religion, A handful of Zionist backed [so called] protesters?

format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz

I'm against all non-secular governments. Religion and politics don't mix because one will always influence the other and both will be corrupt.
You may be against Non secular governments but that's not to say the vast majority of Iranian's are!
What is corrupt about the Iranian government?

Classic case of Anti Iran propaganda
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titus
02-17-2011, 03:47 AM
What is corrupt about the Iranian government?
Well lately it seems they are executing people who protest the government and saying they are being executed for drug charges.

Or you can toe the Iranian government line that every single thing that is anti-Iranian government, whether it be protesters or claims of election fraud or the reports of multiple human rights groups, are all perpetrated and made up by foreign countries.

I also find it enlightening what the Iranian government keeps out of the Iranian press. If a country is not corrupt and wants to listen to its people then why the need to censor the press? Why make it illegal to criticize the government?
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جوري
02-17-2011, 03:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
it illegal to criticize the government?

Is it legal to criticize the govt. in the U.S and I am not talking in theory.. I am speaking of the actuality.. All corporate media seems to echo one sentiment and any opposing voice even if given a chance is in fact marginalized and ridiculed.. is that better in your opinion than censorship?
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titus
02-17-2011, 04:12 AM
Is it legal to criticize the govt. in the U.S and I am not talking in theory..
Yes, it is legal. It happens every single day. How many Americans are you aware of that have been jailed for criticizing the government?

In Iran it is actually a law on the books that makes it illegal and journalists are often jailed for printing anti-government "propaganda".
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جوري
02-17-2011, 04:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
Yes, it is legal. It happens every single day. How many Americans are you aware of that have been jailed for criticizing the government? In Iran it is actually a law on the books that makes it illegal and journalists are often jailed for printing anti-government "propaganda".


It actually doesn't happen everyday..

those who dare speak out, for instance against their stance on the Colonial settler state end up losing their job all together.. I can just imagine them offering people who defend the taliban/hamas/hizbullah a nice chance to criticize your govt. using a different view.. that will be the day!

here is one example out of many:

http://chomsky-must-read.blogspot.co...of-norman.html

and you merely need to google to see a censored list of books in the U.S

pls. stop the pretenses.. hypocrisy isn't attractive!
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titus
02-17-2011, 04:25 AM
It actually doesn't happen everyday
People criticizing the US government in print? It most certainly happens every day.

those who dare speak out, for instance against their stance on the Colonial settler state end up losing their job all together.
We are talking government oppression here. I believe you are referring to Helen Thomas? If so then she was forced to retire by a private corporation and had absolutely zero chance of spending any time in Jail. Compare that with what would happen to anyone in Iran who spoke out publicly in favor of Israel, which would be possible jail time and death.

Freedom of Speech and Freedom of the Press do not mean freedom from repercussion for your actions by other individuals, nor does it mean that nobody is allowed to criticize you back for your opinion. It means that the government cannot persecute you for voicing your opinion.
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جوري
02-17-2011, 04:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
We are talking government oppression here. I believe you are referring to Helen Thomas? If so then she was forced to retire by a private corporation and had absolutely zero chance of spending any time in Jail. Compare that with what would happen to anyone in Iran who spoke out publicly in favor of Israel, which would be possible jail time and death. Freedom of Speech and Freedom of the Press do not mean freedom from repercussion for your actions by other individuals, nor does it mean that nobody is allowed to criticize you back for your opinion. It means that the government cannot persecute you for voicing your opinion.

I was speaking of finklestein but thank you for bringing into the picture Ms. Thomas as well countless others..
Also what do you call those held in Gitmo without trial and for years?
yeah repercussions can indeed take many different forms.. which is worse or better? who is to say? why not ask the individuals voicing a different opinion or those simply lynched off the road for being Muslim and imprisoned somewhere without any just cause which form of bull **** they prefer more?

all the best
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titus
02-17-2011, 04:38 AM
Finkelstein, also, was not prosecuted in any way by the government and had absolutely zero chance of jail time.

Also what do you call those held in Gitmo without trial and for years?
I have always been against Gitmo. I have always thought that the people being held there should either be brought up on charges or let go.

Those are not cases, though, of people not being allowed to voice their opinion. These are people accused of acts of violence.
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جوري
02-17-2011, 04:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
Finkelstein, also, was not prosecuted in any way by the government and had absolutely zero chance of jail time. Also what do you call those held in Gitmo without trial and for years? I have always been against Gitmo. I have always thought that the people being held there should either be brought up on charges or let go. Those are not cases, though, of people not being allowed to voice their opinion. These are people accused of acts of violence.


you being against something doesn't mean that it doesn't take place.. and that is just the crap you know.. Finklestein and countless others have lost their job, and there are many means to make ones life a jail that doesn't have to be a physical one.. although it certainly hasn't kept your country from doing just that to people, whether vocal or not.. Don't they want Al'Awlaki for doing just that.. speaking his mind? stop being a hypocrite please..

Also if they're people accused why not make them stand trial? Is it normal for people to stand acused for merely being Muslim? 13 year olds, 70 year olds?

your govt. is just as ****ty as the Iranian one, same **** different arrangement, and by that token it doesn't give you any remote opportunity to criticize..

all the best
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titus
02-17-2011, 04:53 AM
I have no right to criticize anything governments around the world do because my government isn't perfect? So please, tell me, as an Egyptian who lives in the United States, where exactly do you get your right to criticize other countries?

Also if they're people accused why not make them stand trial? Is it normal for people to stand acused for merely being Muslim? 13 year olds, 70 year olds?
I am not sure exactly what you are referring to here. If you are referring to the people being held at Gitmo I already said they should stand trial if they are accused of anything.

As for being accused of being Muslim..... what are you talking about? Who is being held for "being Muslim"?
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جوري
02-17-2011, 05:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
I have no right to criticize anything governments around the world do because my government isn't perfect? So please, tell me, as an Egyptian who lives in the United States, where exactly do you get your right to criticize other countries?



I am not sure exactly what you are referring to here. If you are referring to the people being held at Gitmo I already said they should stand trial if they are accused of anything.

As for being accused of being Muslim..... what are you talking about? Who is being held for "being Muslim"?
This very thread started by me is all about criticism of middle eastern govt... wakey wakey.. I have never held the argument that my govt. is perfect and yours sucks or that my style 'democracy' is the way or the highway.. you're so blinded by your personal persuasions, you can't see things for what they're even when on a thread so entitled!

You need to focus on the ills of your country before expanding your criticism left and right as we've already stated it makes you a hypocrite peddling the same crap in a different arrangement so get off that high and mighty horse and Chanel all that bravado where it will suit your interests better! ..

as for your ending statement. I am talking about the Muslims being held at Gitmo without trial.. if you can't focus then perhaps you should hit the sac and spare us the inane comments!

all the best
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titus
02-17-2011, 05:15 AM
This very thread started by me is all about criticism of middle eastern govt... wakey wakey.
Yes, but you said I shouldn't criticize other countries because because mine was flawed, yet you start a thread criticizing other countries. I simply ask that you not be so hypocritical in allowing yourself to criticize other countries but telling me you don't believe I have the right to do the same.

as for your ending statement. I am talking about the Muslims being held at Gitmo without trial..
Can you give a name? As far as I know the people held at Gitmo were there for specific reasons, not for simply being a Muslim.

I have never held the argument that my govt. is perfect and yours sucks or that my style 'democracy' is the way or the highway
I have never held the argument that my government is perfect, nor have I ever said that democracy is perfect. You are the only one of us that argues that a certain form of government is perfect.
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جوري
02-17-2011, 05:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
Yes, but you said I shouldn't criticize other countries because because mine was flawed, yet you start a thread criticizing other countries. I simply ask that you not be so hypocritical in allowing yourself to criticize other countries but telling me you don't believe I have the right to do the same.
I don't see how it is hypocritical if I hold them all in the same regard? You seem to be under some sort of delusion that your country is a paragon of a virtue when it is as low and disgusting if not worst considering all your govt. funded and approved slaughters that go on overseas!
http://www.youtube.com/user/iLovePalestineDotCom



Can you give a name? As far as I know the people held at Gitmo were there for specific reasons, not for simply being a Muslim.
How about you give me the names of all those held at Gitmo for starters and what their crimes are, and when they've been found guilty of such crimes!



I have never held the argument that my government is perfect, nor have I ever said that democracy is perfect. You are the only one of us that argues that a certain form of government is perfect.
Then what are you babbling about of freedom of this and freedom of that when it is clear that it is only freedom to express a very monolithic point of view!

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titus
02-17-2011, 05:47 AM
I don't see how it is hypocritical if I hold them all in the same regard?
But you don't hold them all in the same regard. You excuse things that happen in Iran, or at the very least minimize it, while at the same time exaggerating things that happen in other countries, especially the United States.

You get defensive when a non-Muslim criticizes the Iranian government for silencing those that disagree with them on a thread you started applauding the people that stood up against their governments.

Does it not strike you as odd to sit there and judge what is good and what isn't? What is your baseline for such assertions?
I figure I have just as much a right to assert what I believe is good and what is not just as much as you do. I find nothing odd about that at all.

What I do wonder about, though, is why you get upset when I write my belief that a government that arrests and executes those that peacefully protest against it is wrong.

How about you give me the names of all those held at Gitmo for starters and what their crimes are, and when they've been found guilty of such crimes!
It's kind of off topic but I will humor you:

Of 775 detainees only 172 remain. Around 50-60 are to be released but they are having a hard time finding anyone that will take them. For their names you can follow this link.

Again, you and I agree that if these people are not to be charged and put on trial they need to be released.

Then what are you babbling about of freedom of this and freedom of that?
Someone asked what was corrupt about the Iranian government. I responded by bringing up their predilection for arresting and executing people that criticize them.
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جوري
02-17-2011, 06:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
But you don't hold them all in the same regard. You excuse things that happen in Iran, or at the very least minimize it, while at the same time exaggerating things that happen in other countries, especially the United States.
Not at all.. Iran is a shiite govt. I don't even view them as anything but a heretic faction.. let alone go to make excuses for them!
You get defensive when a non-Muslim criticizes the Iranian government for silencing those that disagree with them on a thread you started applauding the people that stood up against their governments.
See above reply!

I figure I have just as much a right to assert what I believe is good and what is not just as much as you do. I find nothing odd about that at all.
What you believe is without merit.. and we're not about 'beliefs' in a world's affair section!

What I do wonder about, though, is why you get upset when I write my belief that a government that arrests and executes those that peacefully protest against it is wrong.
because it is, and falsehood should be vehemently refuted!
but I am not upset about it!


It's kind of off topic but I will humor you:
Of 775 detainees only 172 remain. Around 50-60 are to be released but they are having a hard time finding anyone that will take them. For their names you can follow this link.
I fail to see anything humorous about holding in nearly a thousand person because they don't look to your govt.s liking -- do you think they can simply pick up where they've left off after being imprisoned for five years? You find it humorous to ruin people's lives.. and then ask why people are 'upset' with what you write?

Again, you and I agree that if these people are not to be charged and put on trial they need to be released.
But they're not.. so how about you protest against that, instead of the ills of Iran?


Someone asked what was corrupt about the Iranian government. I responded by bringing up their predilection for arresting and executing people that criticize them.
The same thing ails your govt. too.. we merely want to point that out!

all the best
Reply

titus
02-17-2011, 06:33 AM
What you believe is without merit.. and we're not about 'beliefs' in a world's affair section!
Sure we are. We all discuss what we want to happen and what we believe would be best.

because it is, and falsehood should be vehemently refuted!
but I am not upset about it!
But it is not a falsehood.

I fail to see anything humorous about holding in nearly a thousand person because they don't look to your govt.s liking
In my post I said I would humor you.

Humor: tr.v. 1. To comply with the wishes or ideas of; indulge.

Nothing funny was intended.

But they're not.. so how about you protest against that, instead of the ills of Iran?
On this forum I do it by stating my disgust with both. I don't have to choose just one when I consider both of them to be wrong.
Reply

CosmicPathos
02-17-2011, 06:34 PM
this is the video for the moment, I hope similar things happen across the Muslim world, has some music :S

Reply

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