Integration

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

I have been hearing on the media that Muslims need to integrate. So, what do people mean by integration? Some people repeat the term ''integration'' like parrots but do not usually elaborate further.

How should Muslims integrate into western societies?

[Cabdullahi]

integrate like meet bob on monday to ave a good pint of lager and watch the footie and use abusive language

until you do that you will not fully integrate.

[Woodrow]

:sl:

Integration is when people of different races, cultures, religions or other differences live in the same areas and share the same public facilities.

It is the opposite of segregation in which people that differ from each other live in different neighborhoods, go to different schools and do not share the same public facilities.

It can be a step towards assimilation but need not be. In assimilation the minority people adopt the same life styles as the majority and become indistinguishable from them.

[Tyrion]

I think we need to integrate in the sense that we need to get more involved. Instead of every other Muslim chasing after an engineering/medical/law/programming degree, we should be focused on getting educations that will help us enter society in positions that can influence minds, and then we can be ingrained into the fabric of the society... Getting more involved in government would be a start too...

I think when "the media" tells us to integrate, they mean more along the lines of cultural integration... But not in the sense that Abdullahii is hinting at. I don't think anyone really expects us to abandon our religion in order to integrate, but like I said, what it means is a level of involvement on our part. We need to show that we are a part of this society and culture, and that can't happen when you have Muslims saying things like, "Oh, those Westerners..." or, "Oh, those Americans" as if they were separate... That "us vs. them" mentality is one of the biggest things keeping us from "integrating" or being accepted as members of this society. It's time we realized and accepted that we are a part of this society, and I think that should be our first step in this "integration" everyone keeps talking about. :p

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[GuestFellow]

I think we need to integrate in the sense that we need to get more involved. Instead of every other Muslim chasing after an engineering/medical/law/programming degree, we should be focused on getting educations that will help us enter society in positions that can influence minds, and then we can be ingrained into the fabric of the society... Getting more involved in government would be a start too...

:sl:

I think people should study a subject and pursue a career that they feel comfortable with. No point pursuing a career when you are not interested in it. Besides, a degree in medicine and law is a good platform to enter politics and can influence other people.

I believe someone who is working or studying is integrating and contributing to society.

I don't think anyone really expects us to abandon our religion in order to integrate,

Some non-Muslims in western countries want Muslims to abandon Islam while others want Muslims to change their beliefs. Some people have a problem with the Muslim dress code, performing Namaz, etc.

We need to show that we are a part of this society and culture

How?

[Beardo]

Well, I translate it into coexistence. I think we are coexistent but the media hypes it to make it out as if we're... a bunch of terrorists.

[Tyrion]

:sl:

I think people should study a subject and pursue a career that they feel comfortable with. No point pursuing a career when you are not interested in it. Besides, a degree in medicine and law is a good platform to enter politics and can influence other people.

I believe someone who is working or studying is integrating and contributing to society.

Well, I'm talking more about the large number of Muslim's who pursue these fields due to primarily cultural reasons. Far too many young Muslims go into Medicine or Engineering mainly because this is what they've been told to go into from a young age. Even for those who don't have this kind of motivation, we still have little variety in our job choices. Just go to your local MSA and ask around... From my experience, the vast majority of Muslim youth in universities are studying these things. There's nothing really wrong with that, but at the same time, I think we need to change the way we think. As Nouman Ali Khan said in one of his lectures, we came to this country and thought this (Doctor/Engineer/Programmer) was success... What we need instead are people to go into other fields that can have a more direct impact on society... (Film studies maybe?)

Obviously this is just my opinion, but I really think it would be a step in the right direction. I don't think we can say we're fully integrated if we only make up a very specific/specialized area of the workforce... We should be everywhere. :p

[Nouman Ali Khan says this all better than I can... Most of what I have to say is influenced by/taken from his lectures anyway... Here's the one I quoted from, in case anyone is interested. :p]

Some non-Muslims in western countries want Muslims to abandon Islam while others want Muslims to change their beliefs. Some people have a problem with the Muslim dress code, performing Namaz, etc.

Key word here is "some". This is obviously not the majority, and most people really don't have a problem with Islam.

Also, those that do hold these ignorant views usually just need to be educated, and in order to do this, we would need to be a bit more ingrained in the society first.

How?

By getting rid of that idea that we're somehow not a part of this country/society, and getting involved. :p

[GuestFellow]

Well, I'm talking more about the large number of Muslim's who pursue these fields due to primarily cultural reasons. Far too many young Muslims go into Medicine or Engineering mainly because this is what they've been told to go into from a young age. Even for those who don't have this kind of motivation, we still have little variety in our job choices. Just go to your local MSA and ask around... From my experience, the vast majority of Muslim youth in universities are studying these things. There's nothing really wrong with that, but at the same time, I think we need to change the way we think. As Nouman Ali Khan said in one of his lectures, we came to this country and thought this (Doctor/Engineer/Programmer) was success... What we need instead are people to go into other fields that can have a more direct impact on society... (Film studies maybe?)

Influencing people and integration are two separate issues. A person's profession does not determine whether they are integrating.

Key word here is "some". This is obviously not the majority, and most people really don't have a problem with Islam.

How about the veil ban in France? The ban of mineratt in Switzerland? I used the word ''some'' because I'm not sure whether it is a majority or minority, unless you can present statistics.

By getting rid of that idea that we're somehow not a part of this country/society, and getting involved. :p

Can you give me an example where Muslims are saying that they are not part of their own country and society?

[Tyrion]

Influencing people and integration are two separate issues. A person's profession does not determine whether they are integrating.

No, but it's a start with the whole "ingraining ourselves into the fabric of society" thing I mentioned. It's a step in the right direction, that can ultimately lead to a form of integration... I think so anyway.

How about the veil ban in France? The ban of mineratt in Switzerland? I used the word ''some'' because I'm not sure whether it is a majority or minority, unless you can present statistics.

I don't know too many people who are actually in agreement with those bans. I know that disgusting stuff like this happens, and we should be against it... But I'm talking more "bigger picture" here, and the truth is, the majority of people really aren't out to get us.

Can you give me an example where Muslims are saying that they are not part of their own country and society?

If you're looking for me to quote someone, or give you a link to some statistics, then I can't do that. But really, just go outside or pay attention on this very forum... A lot of Muslims think like that. It's obvious in the way we speak. You can't honestly tell me you don't hear Muslims saying things like, "My American friend said..." or "Americans are so..." when they themselves are in fact from America... Can you?

But maybe it's just me. After all, I can only speak from my own experience... :p

[Aprender]

I get what Tyrion is trying to say. I go to a university here in the United States and Muslim students tend not to be found in many of the majors outside of engineering or medical.

For me, I'm involved with journalism and I can tell you that there are very few Muslim brothers and sisters involved in that particular field. It would help "integrate" more into society if people were more familiar personally with our Muslim brothers and sisters. The college level is what needs it especially now. What's interesting is that, at least where I live, people get their information about Muslims from the news. My journalist colleagues don't exactly report the correct information about Islam. Just the other day I saw a story on the news about Obama and his faith and the reporter told the story in a way that the viewer was led to believe that Muslims don't believe in Jesus. Political commentators on major news networks like FOX and MSNBC are where people get their information from about Muslims and other parts of the world which is why there is such a stigma surrounding the Muslim community.

Now, I am not Muslim yet, but anytime people say something wrong about Muslims I quickly correct them because I am tired of the constant misinformation being thrown out there but it doesn't help that Muslim students on campus do kind of hide. I had no idea a brother in one of my classes was a Muslim until I joined the MSA on campus and found out. And since I've been a member, I expected there to be some events to get out there in the community, helping out, but nothing is happening. So yes, I think there does need to be more involvement for more integration. Most non-Muslims aren't like me and will not seek out proper information about the Muslim community on their own.

[Woodrow]

Integration is fine as long as it is integration and not assimilation. Integration, if you stick with the definition, is part of coexistence.

[selsebil]

Assalaam Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

The term "integration" should be considered to be having a kind relationship with non-Muslim people if they have not a hostility or prejudice against Islam.By the way, we could be able to tell and show the beauty of Islam and give dawah.

Integration should not be considered to be following the un-Islamic habits of western society.I think Quran explains this attitude with the verse:

Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just. Quran 60/8

[Woodrow]

Assalaam Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

The term "integration" should be considered to be having a kind relationship with non-Muslim people if they have not a hostility or prejudice against Islam.By the way, we could be able to tell and show the beauty of Islam and give dawah.

Integration should not be considered to be following the un-Islamic habits of western society.I think Quran explains this attitude with the verse:

Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just. Quran 60/8

And that describes the difference between integration and assimilation. To integrate you retain your identity.

If you assimilate you become that which you assimilate with.

Many people seem to confuse integration with assimilation.

[GuestFellow]

No, but it's a start with the whole "ingraining ourselves into the fabric of society" thing I mentioned. It's a step in the right direction, that can ultimately lead to a form of integration... I think so anyway.

:sl:

As long as they can get a job, speak the native language and obey the law, I think this is enough for integration.

People can get involved in political affairs, despite their educational background.

I don't know too many people who are actually in agreement with those bans. I know that disgusting stuff like this happens, and we should be against it... But I'm talking more "bigger picture" here, and the truth is, the majority of people really aren't out to get us.

I doubt the majority are out there to get Muslims but there are some individuals that are influential and are trying.

If you're looking for me to quote someone, or give you a link to some statistics, then I can't do that. But really, just go outside or pay attention on this very forum... A lot of Muslims think like that. It's obvious in the way we speak. You can't honestly tell me you don't hear Muslims saying things like, "My American friend said..." or "Americans are so..." when they themselves are in fact from America... Can you?

Yes, I sometimes say ''oh some Muslims this'' or ''some Pakistanis do this'' or ''some westerners'' do this. It does not mean I'm not a westerner, I was born in the West, whether I like it or not.

Personally I think the term ''American'' means nothing other than you are born in a country that is called America...