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GuestFellow
02-08-2011, 11:28 PM
:sl:

The nature of Islam is the focus of this edition of CrossTalk, with Peter Lavelle and his guests. Islam is one of the world's major religions. However, some believe that Islam and its holy book the Quran is not a religion, but an ideology. If that is the case, what is the evidence? Is calling Islam an ideology the same as Islamophobia? Is the attempt to reject the Quran as a holy book the same as attempting to de-legitimize Islam?

^ I personally found the debate very funny. Share your views!

The women Wafa Sultan is strange...
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selsebil
02-09-2011, 03:48 PM
Assalaam Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

This is the definition of " ideology" in wikipedia:

An ideology is a set of ideas that constitutes one's goals, expectations, and actions. An ideology can be thought of as a comprehensive vision, as a way of looking at things (compare worldview), as in common sense (see Ideology in everyday society below) and several philosophical tendencies (see Political ideologies), or a set of ideas proposed by the dominant class of a society to all members of this society (a "received consciousness" or product of socialization).

The origin of Islam is not a human phlosophy or expectation.The origin of Islam is the " Word of God".Therefore Islam cannot be considered to be an ideology.This is logically proven by Scholar Bediuzzaman Said Nursi:

" Individuals who resemble one another may imitate one another, those of the same kind may take on one another’s forms, those who are close to one another in rank or status may imitate one another and temporarily deceive people, but they cannot do so for ever. For in any event, the falseness and artificiality in their behaviour will show up their imposture to the observant, and their deception will not last. If the one who is attempting to imitate another under false pretences is quite unlike them, for example, if an uneducated man wants to imitate in learning a genius like Ibn-i Sina, or a shepherd assume the position of a king, of course, they will not deceive anyone at all, they will only make fools of themselves. Everything they do will proclaim, ‘This is an impostor.’

“Thus, to suppose -God forbid!, a hundred thousand times- the Qur’an to be man’s word is utterly impossible, no rational being can accept it as possible, to do so is a delirium like imagining to be possible something that is self-evidently impossible like a fire-fly being seen by astronomers as a real star for a thousand years; or a fly appearing to observers in the true form of a peacock for a year; or a bogus common private posing as a famous lofty field marshal, taking over his position and remaining in it for a long period without giving away his deception; or like a slandering, unbelieving liar affecting the manner and position of the most truthful, trustworthy, upright believer throughout his life and being completely unruffled before even the most observant while concealing his fraud from them.

“In just the same way, if the Qur’an is supposed to be man’s word, then it has to be supposed, God forbid, that that Perspicuous Book, which is considered to be clearly a most brilliant star, rather, a sun of perfections perpetually scattering the lights of truth in the heavens of the world of Islam, is like a fire-fly, a spurious sham made up by a counterfeiting human. And those who are closest to it and study it most carefully do not realize this, and consider it to be a perpetual, exalted star and source of truth. Together with this being impossible a hundred times over, even if you went a hundred times further in your diabolical machinations, O Satan, you could not make such an assertion, you could not deceive anyone of sound reason! Only sometimes you trick people by making them look from a great distance, thus making the star appear as small as a fire-fly.
“Thirdly: Also, if the Qur’an is imagined to be man’s word, it necessitates that the hidden reality of a criterion of truth and falsehood, which is miraculous in its exposition, and through the testimony of its fruits, results, and effects, is gilded with the most spiritual and life-giving, the most truthful and happiness-bringing, the most comprehensive and exalted qualities in the world of mankind, is, God forbid, the fabrication of a single unaided and unlearned man’s mind; and that the great geniuses and brilliant scholars who observed that being closely and studied him meticulously at no time saw any trace of counterfeit or pretence in him and always found him serious, genuine, and sincere.
“This is completely impossible, an idea so nonsensical as to shame the Devil himself, like dreaming up an utterly impossible situation. For it entails supposing one who throughout his life demonstrated and taught trust, belief, confidence, sincerity, seriousness, and integrity through all his conduct, words, and actions, and raised eminently truthful and sincere followers, and was accepted to possess the highest and most brilliant and elevated virtues to be the most untrustworthy, insincere, and unbelieving. Because in this question there is no point between the two.

“If, to suppose the impossible, the Qur’an was not the Word of God, it would fall as though from the Divine Throne to the ground, it would not remain somewhere between. While being the meeting-point of truths, it would become the source of superstition and myth. And if, God forbid, the one who proclaimed that wonderful decree was not God’s Messenger, it would necessitate his descending from the highest of the high to the lowest of the low, and from the degree of being the source of accomplishments and perfections to the level of being a mine of trickery and intrigue; he could not remain between the two. For one who lies and fabricates in God’s name falls to the very lowest of degrees.

“However impossible it is to permanently see a fly as a peacock, and to all the time see the peacocks’s attributes in the fly, this matter is that impossible. Only someone lacking all intelligence could imagine it to be possible.

http://www.lightofquran.info/15word.htm (addendum)

" Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled. Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:" Quran 53/2-4
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aadil77
02-09-2011, 08:41 PM
someone needs to shut that stupid sultana up

presenter was good
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
02-09-2011, 09:38 PM
Assalaamu alaaykum

interesting debate. i feel that Islaam was not explained to Wafa Sultaan properly, it is quite sad and i know many who have same opinions as her.

She mentioned that Islaam will take over the world, that is indeed true, but i feel she thinks its done in an evil way, like killing people untill they accept Islaam etc, that is indeed incorrect. To accept Islaam is done with Ikhlaas to realise they are on the Haqq. subhaan'Allaah!

Also i believe sincerety is needed to debate one another no matter what faith you are as the Quraan mentions to speak in a beautiful manner, it just shows how ignorant you are, or else there is no purpose, it leads to hating one another. To be patient and let the other speak, and when they finish you may speak, as its quite a rude characteristic in one and quite like makes you look dumb.

And indeed Allaah guides whom he wills.

peace
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GuestFellow
02-09-2011, 10:26 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by aadil77
someone needs to shut that stupid sultana up

presenter was good
LOL

Yes, I like the presenter in this debate, better than BBC.

Originally Posted by Pєαяℓ σf Wιѕ∂σм
Assalaamu alaaykum

interesting debate. i feel that Islaam was not explained to Wafa Sultaan properly, it is quite sad and i know many who have same opinions as her.
I doubt Wafa Sultan is ignorant. Is it not odd that we have Wafa Sultan, Nonie Darwish, Ayaan Hirsi and many more ex-Muslims who became active following 9/11, achieving status, power and financial success?

All of them have something in common. Their life stories contain too much inconsistencies and their credibility will be severely damaged if it was proven that these people have lied about their past lives in order to gain publicity. For more information, check this site: www.loonwatch.com

She is either pathetically ignorant or lying. It's most likely that she is a big liar.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
02-09-2011, 10:31 PM
^Indeed i agree.

As i mentioned that Islaam hasnt been explained/taught to her in the correct manner.

She has the wrong understandings regarding each issue she mentioned.

peace
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