Yes yes yes wohoooooo he stepped down, armed forces to take control of egypt

[جوري]

pls. pray for a proper Islamic state pls. pls. pray for this ummah to rise again starting with Egypt

[Perseveranze]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

Alhamdulillah, may this all have been for the better Inshallah. I'll always pray for a great Muslim leader to stand up like the early Muslim leaders did.

[Danah]

Finally he is out now :]

[جوري]

Allah Akbar Allah Akbar Allah Akbar.. this sure does make me hopeful again..

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[Nájlá]

Mabroooooooook finally! I hope the egyptians get a great muslim leader inshallah

[جوري]

ameen ya rabb.. they're already whining about the Muslims.. but they contributed naught to this and they should buzz off still, take Israel and shove it up their asses!

['Abd Al-Maajid]

So mubarak stepped down. So this brings us to end of the revolution? Who will be the next prez?

[جوري]

lol

[aadil77]

1 down, a million more zionists to go!

Insha'Allah lets see what happens

[Hannah.]

Yey I'm so happy for Egypt! Alhumdulilah. May Allah (swt) grant them a great leader just like the influential rightly guided caliphs. Ameen.

[ardianto]

pls. pray for a proper Islamic state pls. pls. pray for this ummah to rise again starting with Egypt

I do ... I do ... :)

[Güven]

Alhamdullilah!!! It was about time...

[جوري]

I know right... 30 years and we're celebrating.. I mean the guy is 82.. I wish these turds from the west would buzz off.. they've done nothing to Egypt for 30 years so long as the cockroach state was happy at the price of Egyptian life.. we need them to stay out now too while we work out the particulars without their meddling, lest we end up with another dictator.. I mean that is how it has been since the dissolution of the Ottomans!

:w:

[Woodrow]

Finally he is out now :]

MASHA ALLAH

I just read the news here:

CAIRO - President Hosni Mubarak resigned Friday and handed power to the Egyptian military, setting off wild celebrations among protesters across the country who had demanded his ouster for the last 18 days.

When the announcement by Vice President Omar Suleiman was broadcast in Cairo's Tahrir Square, the epicenter of the protests, pandemonium broke out as huge throngs of demonstrators realized they had acheived their goal.

SOURCE

[Maryan0]

This shows that the people have the power to bring down tyrants without resorting to violence. I'm very happy for the people of Egypt and may this serve as a warning to the other tyrants of the Muslim world.
Salam

['Abd Al-Maajid]

What is the situation in Tunisia? I had stopped following the news about Tunisian uprising, I think it is still ongoing...

[Danah]

lol

LOL so funny pic, thanks for the laugh.

May Allah grant egyption people a better leader.

['Abd Al-Maajid]

LOL so funny pic, thanks for the laugh.

What does the sign say? Please, translate, anyone...and whoo are the people in the pic...i see mubarak...

[Al-Mufarridun]

What is the situation in Tunisia? I had stopped following the news about Tunisian uprising, I think it is still ongoing...

Whatever their condition may be, tonight they have 80 million of their brethren on their side, who'll i am certain will show them gratitude for their support and inspiration. May Allah(swt) unite the heart of the Ummah, the hearts that have been disunited and polluted by decades of dictatorial nationalistic venom. Tear down these borders, Tear down these Dictators. May Allah(swt) guide the Ummah through this journey to a better end. Ameen.

[جوري]

LOL so funny pic, thanks for the laugh. May Allah grant egyption people a better leader.

I know right hilarious.. BTW thank you to all of you who have left me positive reps.. sob7an Allah.. the Islamic spirit is always so generous.. it might take me a while to thank all of you in person..

Sr. Maryano (Lisa) you're a very special lady..

:w:

[جوري]

What does the sign say? Please, translate, anyone...and whoo are the people in the pic...i see mubarak...

he says may God blast or dam n the next person who comes to power .. donations in dollars please!

[Danah]

he says may God blast or dam n the next person who comes to power .. donations in dollars please!

lol, I was waiting you to translate it, because I was sure that I won't deliver the right meaning of the Egyptian accent. I really like the Egyptian accent, its soo cute

[جوري]

need to see that this not become an islamist movement.. that the 'bad' guys not take over.. will they ever shut up with their song and dance those cretins?

They need their filthy grip and hedonism off the region.. Egypt is a free Islamic country under Sharia law insha'Allah

[جوري]

lol, I was waiting you to translate it, because I was sure that I won't deliver the right meaning of the Egyptian accent. I really like the Egyptian accent, its soo cute

you can't really translate the particulars which is what makes it funny.. I suppose much is lost in the translation...but people can get the gist ... love how they're sitting there down trodden and bad on their luck lol

[Maryan0]

I know right hilarious.. BTW thank you to all of you who have left me positive reps.. sob7an Allah.. the Islamic spirit is always so generous.. it might take me a while to thank all of you in person..

Sr. Maryano (Lisa) you're a very special lady..

:w:

aww sis so are you. May Allah bless you immensely and May you get all you want in this dunya and Akhirah.
Salam

[جوري]

aww sis so are you. May Allah bless you immensely and May you get all you want in this dunya and Akhirah. Salam

and you insha'Allah ya rabb..

:wub:

['Abd Al-Maajid]

I am expecting a phenomenal change in the situation in Egypt, may Allah SWT bless Egypt with a just, unbiased ruler and make it an example to the rest of the Islamic nations.
Amen!

[Danah]

you can't really translate the particulars which is what makes it funny.. I suppose much is lost in the translation...but people can get the gist ... love how they're sitting there down trodden and bad on their luck lol

yeah especially the word: يخرب بيت I don't think that there is an accurate translation to that lol.

Finally I can study well now, I have been staring in the TV for the whole past 16 days!

[Endymion]

May Allah swt bless Egypt and all the Muslim countries and the whole world with Peace and prosperity and bless the people with hidayah and cleanliness of heart and mind and only Loyal and pious people will lead them.Amen.

[جوري]

yeah especially the word: يخرب بيت I don't think that there is an accurate translation to that lol. Finally I can study well now, I have been staring in the TV for the whole past 16 days!

My God you're not alone.. everyday I try to make up by staying up late to finish my work.. all my work and research articles have suffered.. I watch the news 24/7, yesterday I got 3 hrs of sleep especially after the anger I felt that he wouldn't step down but I think he was doing that to bite his time before he flees into one of his palatial home and pack alot of bags containing those 80 billion .. we lived and breathed this, I keep bugging my mom to call them in Egypt, even though some of the things we knew they didn't even know like the sum of his fortune and stuff lol ..
akh God.. I am going to order halal chinese and break my diet today and go wild wild.. :haha:

ya rabb id3o to this ummah to stand strong.. we need to be as strong as Turkey but not secular.. Jazakoum Allah for living this along with me.. what a thing to unite.. truly the Muslims are one hand the affairs of one are the affairs of all ..


p.s I know what you mean about yikhrab byet lol.. I guess the literal translation is 'demolish the house'

xxx

[Al-manar]

lol

funny ...though I disagree including Muammar al-Gaddafi ,I believe his positives is far more his shortcomings.....

[جوري]

funny ...though I disagree including Muammar al-Gaddafi ,I believe his positives is far more his shortcomings.....

khadafi is a clown frankly!

[Danah]

My God you're not alone.. everyday I try to make up by staying up late to finish my work.. all my work and research articles have suffered.. I watch the news 24/7, yesterday I got 3 hrs of sleep especially after the anger I felt that he wouldn't step down but I think he was doing that to bite his time before he flees into one of his palatial home and pack alot of bags containing those 80 billion .. we lived and breathed this, I keep bugging my mom to call them in Egypt, even though some of the things we knew they didn't even know like the sum of his fortune and stuff lol ..
akh God.. I am going to order halal chinese and break my diet today and go wild wild.. :haha:

ya rabb id3o to this ummah to stand strong.. we need to be as strong as Turkey but not secular.. Jazakoum Allah for living this along with me.. what a thing to unite.. truly the Muslims are one hand the affairs of one are the affairs of all ..


p.s I know what you mean about yikhrab byet lol.. I guess the literal translation is 'demolish the house'

xxx

^ lol Congratulation on having a special feast today, make sure will get the most of it :haha:

I used to turn on the TV everyday after Fajir prayer and before going out every morning, Even though I am not an Egyptian but I really LOVE Egypt and Egyptian now more than any day before.

[جوري]

^ lol Congratulation on having a special feast today, make sure will get the most of it I used to turn on the TV everyday after Fajir prayer and before going out every morning, Even though I am not an Egyptian but I really LOVE Egypt and Egyptian now more than any day before.

May Allah swt love you..

I am just so overcome with happiness... I used to be so ashamed of Egypt.. and if people asked me if I were Turkish or Lebanese I'd jump at the chance to say ''yeah I am from around there'' just was so ashamed of that country.. and now I am proud to call it my country.. al7mdlillah...

[Nájlá]

lol

Hahahaha lol thanks for the laugh

I really am proud of my brothers and sisters in egypt and Tunisa inshallah yemen shall be next.

I was jumping up and down when I heard the news I swear I am so happy and I'll be even more happy when the yemeni president steps down he's just as worse.

[aadil77]

May Allah swt love you..

I am just so overcome with happiness... I used to be so ashamed of Egypt.. and if people asked me if I were Turkish or Lebanese I'd jump at the chance to say ''yeah I am from around there'' just was so ashamed of that country.. and now I am proud to call it my country.. al7mdlillah...

end of the day we're all muslims - thats the only thing to be proud about

I'm definately not proud to be pakistani

[Life_Is_Short]

Alhamdulilah :)

[GuestFellow]

khadafi is a clown frankly!

:sl:

I find him funny.

Best UN Moments of 2009

[جوري]

end of the day we're all muslims - thats the only thing to be proud about I'm definately not proud to be pakistani

I agree we're all Muslims.. but it is a great feeling to feel something for your motherland.. I never had that feeling before.. and now I long to go and take it in.. insha'Allah a proper Islamic ummah will rise out of this..

p.s can't stand how the media here is already taking credit with 'obama's speech' in cairo and their alleged support.. pls. tell me where the support was for 30 yrs?

[جوري]

I find him funny.

kadafi is now abolishing Fridays!

['Abd Al-Maajid]

I'm definately not proud to be pakistani

I agree we're all Muslims.. but it is a great feeling to feel something for your motherland

I am proud to be a muslim, obviously and I take pride in the fact that I was born in India aswell as She is one of the countries which gives us full liberty to practice, propagate any religion of personal choice, though at some places some politics are playing a bad game...like banning burkhas...et cetera.

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

kadafi is now abolishing Fridays!

LOL That wouldn't surprise me...

Just a general question, how popular is Gadafi in Libya?

[جوري]

LOL That wouldn't surprise me... Just a general question, how popular is Gadafi in Libya?

I really have no idea.. I think the guy needs a psychiatric consult.. he is just so odd..

[BoredAgnostic]

Definitely a beautiful day for Egyptians and supporters around the world. I've been following the news (aljazeera) since its inception, and I'm a bit surprised at the complete 180 Mubarak did... I wonder what influenced him to step down....considering that disgusting speech he made a day prior, where he seemed pretty adamant about staying until Sept.

[glo]

Definitely a beautiful day for Egyptians and supporters around the world. I've been following the news (aljazeera) since its inception, and I'm a bit surprised at the complete 180 Mubarak did... I wonder what influenced him to step down....considering that disgusting speech he made a day prior, where he seemed pretty adamant about staying until Sept.

I thought the same. Only 24 hours ago he wasn't going to budge ...
I heard from people on the ground who felt that Mubarak had been kept in the dark about how things really were in Tahrir square, and that his speech was pitched VERY badly. Perhaps he realised that with hindsight.

It just shows that it paid for the Egyptian people to stand firm. It would have been so easy to give up after last night, to go home and return to work. But they didn't - and got what they wanted! :)

I hope and pray that Egypt can now become a nation which has the needs of it's citizens at heart.

[جوري]

one of my fav. pix today..

*new

[جوري]

I love Egypt's army.. may God bless them to the day of recompense.. may they always walk the true path and fight only the enemies of God.. They're conscripted of the people and they're the people of Egypt...

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Assalaamu alaaykum

Alhamdulilaah! may Allaah grant the Egyptians a good leader Ameen

imagine how happy the people are now, Subhaan'Allaah and Alhamdulilaah

[Cabdullahi]

Since the thread starter is Egyptian....we need her to send us some cakes to go with this celebratory mood.

[marwen]

Alhamdulillah ! Allah responded to the prayers of millions of egyptians in the streets and to the prayers of muslims all over the world. Congratulations to all the egyptian brothers and sisters and to all the muslims and arabs. Freedom for Palestine InshaAllah.

[جوري]

Since the thread starter is Egyptian....we need her to send us some cakes to go with this celebratory mood.

do you want to spend the night in the ER? :haha:

another great pix from today

[جوري]

Alhamdulillah ! Allah responded to the prayers of millions of egyptians in the streets and to the prayers of muslims all over the world. Congratulations to all the egyptian brothers and sisters and to all the muslims and arabs. Freedom for Palestine InshaAllah.

let's pray for a proper khilafah rashidah insha'Allah although I understand the impossibility of that.. really wish the Islamic golden age would return insha'Allah!

[جوري]

another hilarious one

Link:

[Cabdullahi]

The khilafah will return when the people revolt...and this could be the start


Allah knows best

[جوري]

Allah Akbar bism illah bism illah

[Ansariyah]

Allahu Akbarrr! =D Mabrooookkkkk!

Firawns outttt!

MashaAllah at the patience, persistence & Imaan of the people who protested, made the noise that brought about the historic change that we are witnessing. To be honest I was a bit worried that the people would give up after his speech last night, but Alhamdulilah they didnt give up. I'm proud of my brothas/Sistas in egypt! Allah heard them & helped them, May Allah continue to help them ameeen.

[Insaanah]

The people gathered, protested, and prayed...

(Salaatul Jumu3ah in Tahrir Square today)

They kept firm their resolve and will power, and made du3a...

And Allah decreed... without Allah's help and decree, it could not have happened..

قال رسول الله :” احفظ الله يحفظك.احفظ الله تجده تجاهك.أذا سألت فسأل الله واذا استعنت فاستعن بالله واعلم ان الامة لو اجتمععت على ان ينفعوك بشيء لن ينفعوك الا بشيء قد كتبه الله لك وان الامة لو اجتمعت على ان يضروك بشيء لن يضروك الا بشيء قد كتبه الله عليك.رفعت الاقلام و جفت الصحف

"On the authority of Abdullah bin Abbas, who said : One day I was behind the prophet and he said to me:

"Young man, I shall teach you some words [of advice] : Be mindful of Allah, and Allah will protect you. Be mindful of Allah, and you will find Him in front of you. If you ask, ask of Allah; if you seek help, seek help of Allah. Know that if the Nation were to gather together to benefit you with anything, it would not be able to benefit you except with something that Allah had already prescribed for you, and that if they gather together to harm you with anything, they would not be able to harm you except with something Allah had already prescribed for you. The pens have been lifted and the pages have dried." (Tirmidhi)

May Allah reward them for their patience (innallaaha ma3assaabireen) and bless them with a righteous leadership, ameen.

[جوري]

Thank you all for sharing this historic day with me.. I never used to watch the news, it was always awful, not that it isn't peppered with awful still but I am so glad of the resolve of the people and your genuine emotions here tell me that we're truly one ummah..

Jordan and Yemen here come the young people demanding what their forefathers neglected!

Allah Akbar

[Martinz]

Praise God!!!

:awesome::awesome::awesome::awesome::awesome::awes ome::awesome::awesome:

All Egypt needs now is a Woman President!!!
:D

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

وَنُرِيدُ أَن نَّمُنَّ عَلَى الَّذِينَ اسْتُضْعِفُوا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَنَجْعَلَهُمْ أَئِمَّةً وَنَجْعَلَهُمُ الْوَارِثِينَ

"And We wanted to confer favor upon those who were oppressed in the land and make them leaders and make them inheritors" - 28:15

Amazing day for the Egyptians and the world. 18 days of solidarity, peaceful protests brought change that could never have come through violence and divisiveness. Insha'Allaah this kind of grassroots peaceful change can also be sparked in other lands that are filled with corrupt regimes such as in Saudi and Pakistan so the people can be free there as well and their voices heard!

I loved the message of Imam Suhaib Webb on this so much that I just have to share:

Dear brothers and sisters,

Asalamu `alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

It is with tempered happiness, touched hearts and tears of joy that we congratulate the Egyptian people on their victory over oppression. It is a blessed month, in which many of us honor the birth of our Prophet ﷺ. And, from this day forward, insha’Allah, we will recall the birth of a new mindset in the Middle East. Ahmed Shawqi wrote, “Egypt is history….so look at her and read it!”


Truly, the Egyptian people have captured our hearts. Their love for freedom, dedication to each other irregardless of religion, and the pursuit of a free life, are truly admirable. Without “Operation Freedom,” “Autocratic thugs,” and “Irresponsible extremist theology,” but, “Allah does not change a people until they change themselves,” they were able to bring change. At SuhaibWebb.com, the majority of us have lived, studied, cried and laughed in Egypt, and our relation is that of close cousins. We have called for a “Global Qiyam” this weekend and encourage all to take part begging Allah to assist the plight of the oppressed wherever they are.


Finally, while we celebrate the political death of an oppressor, let us reflect on the happiness when, insha’Allah, we enter Paradise and see our Prophet (peace be upon him). In order for that to happen, we must rise against what ShaykhaMuslema al-Azhariya coined “the inner Mubarak!” Just as the Egyptians were empowered to initiate change in their country, we must seize the opportunity to change ourselves and rise up against the oppressive nature of our souls! God bless the Egyptians, accept their efforts and make this an example of change for the rest of the world.


Please leave your message of support, supplication and congratulations to the people of Egypt!


Suhaib
http://www.suhaibwebb.com/society/in...yptian-people/

[YusufNoor]

Thank you all for sharing this historic day with me.. I never used to watch the news, it was always awful, not that it isn't peppered with awful still but I am so glad of the resolve of the people and your genuine emotions here tell me that we're truly one ummah..

Jordan and Yemen here come the young people demanding what their forefathers neglected!

Allah Akbar

:sl:

ah yes, Yemen...

SANAA (Reuters)

Yemen's opposition has drawn tens of thousands of people to the streets to rally against three decades of autocratic rule of President Ali Abdullah Saleh, but by noon the protesters quietly vanish.

Many head straight from the streets to the souk, or market, to buy bags stuffed with qat, the mild stimulant leaf that over half of Yemen's 23 million people chew daily, wiling away their afternoons in bliss, their cheeks bulging with wads of qat.

"After I chew I can't go out. When I chew qat, the whole world is mine. I feel like a king," said Mohammed al-Qadimi, a student who has attended Yemen rallies but said it would be hard to motivate himself to protest all day.

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/20...10/137069.html


mmmmm, maybe not!

:wa:

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam


really it's a great news. InshaAllah we will see a good , brave Muslim as the leader and " ummah to rise again starting with Egypt "

[Martinz]

I mean a Muslima who is non-Islamist for an Egyptian President.

(and now I can turn on my email notification which I forgot to do in the post before :-[)

[tw009]

Alhumdulillah. just shows what a huge impact the youth and the social media can have... May Allah bless the people of Egypt.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

pls. pray for a proper Islamic state pls. pls. pray for this ummah to rise again starting with Egypt

ameen. getting rid of Mubarak is only half the equation though :( i hope this misguidance and oppression isn't going to be replaced with another.

[Ramadhan]

Alhamdulillah!
what a great news for egypt and for the ummah!

May Allah SWT gives egypt a strong, pious, just ruler who will work hard to make egypt a great nation once again. Amiin.

[MustafaMc]

ameen. getting rid of Mubarak is only half the equation though :( i hope this misguidance and oppression isn't going to be replaced with another.

Ameen. This is still a very critical time for Egypt. Let us be vigilant in our prayers that a righteous Islamic government will be established that will be a beacon for the rest of the Muslim world.

[titus]

This is just a first step. The next few months will tell if the revolution actually improved anything. Let's hope so.

[Hamza Asadullah]

Asalaamu alaikum, When I was in Egypt just 5 weeks ago, i talked to many Egyptian brothers all across Egypt about the need for Mubarak to be ousted from power and that the only way that will ever happen is if there is an Iranian style revolution where the people make a stand and drive Mubarak out of power. But never in my wildest dreams did i think it would actually happen 5 weeks later.

We should not let this victory decieve us as the hard work begins now. The zionists and the west will not loosen their grip that easily. The struggle has just began. The tremors going across North Africa and the Middle east are also shakening the west and the zionists with fear. What they fear the most is the Muslim Ummah uniting. Why do you think they spend billions every year making sure their puppet leaders across the Muslim world are kept sweet? They fear the day when the Shariah returns and the Muslims unite threatening their ultimate agenda - World domination.

Ya Allah rid this ummah of tyrant hypocrite rulers and replace them with good, honest and truthful Khaliphs under a proper Shariah. Ameen

[Beardo]

We're having a Qiyaam here tomorrow night for the Egyptians.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

What a dua'!

[Athrun66]

well we did it :D , thanks to every1 who prayed for us .
we have a lot of cleaning up to do starting with our ... ehm glorious police force
lets hope we can get a just and pious leader for our country

[Asiyah3]

Allahu akbar, best news ever! May Allah grant Egypt a just and pious leader.

May Allah reward the people of Egypt immensely!

[peace_maker]

2 down, more to go :)
First, Ben Ali, then Hosni Mubarak and who knows who is next.
There's corruption all over the world, Yemen, Algeria, Libya, even China and last but not the least Saudi Arabia!

[Dagless]

2 down, more to go :)
First, Ben Ali, then Hosni Mubarak and who knows who is next.
There's corruption all over the world, Yemen, Algeria, Libya, even China and last but not the least Saudi Arabia!

The ones in Yemen are already getting bigger. http://yemenpost.net/Detail123456789...3127&MainCat=3

[peace_maker]

2 down, more to go. First, Tunisia then, Egypt. And who knows what's next. Yemen, Algeria, Libya, even China and last but not the least, Saudi Arabia?!

[Trumble]

What they fear the most is the Muslim Ummah uniting. Why do you think they spend billions every year making sure their puppet leaders across the Muslim world are kept sweet?

What they fear most in that region is what they always have; that the oil will stop flowing. As long as it does flow, they will 'keep sweet' whoever is in charge.

[جوري]

I am afraid in the midst of all of this.. rather than what the people want, that ***** crapaleeza's vision for the 'New Middle East' is the one that gets established instead.. whatever the case things won't be the same again.. if there are changing presidents insha'Allah in the near future we'll have an Islamic state-- I think people have already broken that fear en masse!

:w:

[Ramadhan]

What they fear most in that region is what they always have; that the oil will stop flowing. As long as it does flow, they will 'keep sweet' whoever is in charge

not entirely true.
Oil is still flowing from Iran, and yet the USA is trying hard to destabilize Iran and wants to change Iran leaderships.

there is at least one other factor that USA protects at any cost: Israel.

[MustafaMc]

I am afraid in the midst of all of this.. rather than what the people want, that ***** crapaleeza's vision for the 'New Middle East' is the one that gets established instead..

We know that nothing happens but that it is the will of Allah (swt). May the kaffir plans be utterly demolished and the good of the people be victorious Quran 3:54 And they schemed, and Allah schemed: and Allah is the best of schemers.

[Danah]

well we did it :D , thanks to every1 who prayed for us .
we have a lot of cleaning up to do starting with our ... ehm glorious police force
lets hope we can get a just and pious leader for our country

May Egypt always get the best!
MashaAllah Egyptian people are working rly hard on streets today morning. May Allah bless them, its amazing to see people cooperating with each other!

[GuestFellow]

there is at least one other factor that USA protects at any cost: Israel.

:sl:

At the moment, that appears to be the case. However, recently, some Americans dislike that the US government gives too much aid to Israel. Some even consider Israel a strategic liability and believe Israel should be treated like any other country.

There might be a possibility in the future that the US will stop supporting Israel but this is very unlikely due to AIPAC influence.

[Hamza Asadullah]

:sl:

At the moment, that appears to be the case. However, recently, some Americans dislike that the US government gives too much aid to Israel. Some even consider Israel a strategic liability and believe Israel should be treated like any other country.

There might be a possibility in the future that the US will stop supporting Israel but this is very unlikely due to AIPAC influence.

Asalaamu Alaikum, a few politicians not liking Americas relationship with Israel does not mean anything. Israel is heavily funding the US and that is why their lobby groups are so powerful in America. Both America and Israel are working together to achieve their agenda's. Israels agenda is that they want zion and America wants world domination. Simple as that. The Muslims and now China stand in their way of achieving their ultimate goals. They may plot and scheme but Allah is the best of plotters.

[GuestFellow]

Asalaamu Alaikum, a few politicians not liking Americas relationship with Israel does not mean anything. Israel is heavily funding the US and that is why their lobby groups are so powerful in America. Both America and Israel are working together to achieve their agenda's. Israels agenda is that they want zion and America wants world domination. Simple as that. The Muslims and now China stand in their way of achieving their ultimate goals. They may plot and scheme but Allah is the best of plotters.

:wa:

I never said politicians, I meant some members of the public are questioning their relationship with Israel. Not many spoke against the Israel lobby until the Iraq war.

So, there might be a very small possibility that, if many Americans dislike giving aid to Israel, the US government, may treat Israel like any other country. However, this is very unlikely but I prefer to keep all the possibilities open.

[Trumble]

not entirely true.
Oil is still flowing from Iran, and yet the USA is trying hard to destabilize Iran and wants to change Iran leaderships.

I don't think you can really look at it country by country. The perception of Iran (rightly or wrongly) is that it might constitute a threat to regional stability. Any sort of armed conflict with Israel, even of a limited nature, would have a huge effect on oil availability and price (just as the 1973 war did).

[Dagless]

So, there might be a very small possibility that, if many Americans dislike giving aid to Israel, the US government, may treat Israel like any other country. However, this is very unlikely but I prefer to keep all the possibilities open.

I think this will happen sooner rather than later. Israel has a habit of doing crazy things and one day they will be more of a hindrance to America than a benefit.

[GuestFellow]

I don't think you can really look at it country by country. The perception of Iran (rightly or wrongly) is that it might constitute a threat to regional stability. Any sort of armed conflict with Israel, even of a limited nature, would have a huge effect on oil availability and price (just as the 1973 war did).

I think there is already instability in that region...well it depends on what you mean by stability.

It is very unlikely Iran will attack Israel. What makes you think Iran will attack Israel? Or do you mean Israel will attack Iran?

If Iran obtains nuclear weapons, I think there will be a balance of power in the region, even though the Arab countries, Israel and some western countries dislike this.

[جوري]

on a side note.. so many of you have been so generous and genuine sharing in my happiness and unfortunately I haven't been able to repay all your generous reps. I have been trying to do it in order from the bottom up otherwise new ones erase the old ones and I have no clue who I missed.. sry I have been remiss, and I don't want to make it seem like any of you are waiting for reps. but do wish to thank you in person...

Jazakoum Allah khyran..

[MustafaMc]

We celebrate with you for the sake of Allah (swt), may His ummah be victorious. Please, post here the video of salah as I so enjoyed it.

[جوري]

me too..

enjoy the sight of your brothers and sisters loving what you love!

[Hamza Asadullah]

:wa:

I never said politicians, I meant some members of the public are questioning their relationship with Israel. Not many spoke against the Israel lobby until the Iraq war.

So, there might be a very small possibility that, if many Americans dislike giving aid to Israel, the US government, may treat Israel like any other country. However, this is very unlikely but I prefer to keep all the possibilities open.

There will always be those who question this "special" relationship but it will fall on deaf ears. In order for Israel and the US to achieve their ultimate agenda's they need each other. Israel provides the United States with military bases and a presence in the Middle East that can shape international borders disputes between Israel and Palestine and conflicts the United States is engaged in. The US has a presence in the middle of the Islamic world in Israel and by working together they believe they can achieve each others agenda's.

[جوري]

^^ the vid. is in Alexandria not Cairo..

:w:

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

There will always be those who question this "special" relationship but it will fall on deaf ears.

The future is quite unpredictable and who knows, the relationship between these two countries, might collapse.

In order for Israel and the US to achieve their ultimate agenda's they need each other.

What agenda?

I agree, Israel needs US military and financial support.

Israel provides the United States with military bases and a presence in the Middle East that can shape international borders disputes between Israel and Palestine and conflicts the United States is engaged in.

Yes, there are military bases in the Middle East. Do you have evidence to suggest that Israel provides/maintains these military bases?

I doubt the US needs Israel to maintain these bases, so if you have evidence, I would like to see it.

on a side note.. so many of you have been so generous and genuine sharing in my happiness and unfortunately I haven't been able to repay all your generous reps. I have been trying to do it in order from the bottom up otherwise new ones erase the old ones and I have no clue who I missed.. sry I have been remiss, and I don't want to make it seem like any of you are waiting for reps. but do wish to thank you in person...

Jazakoum Allah khyran..

It must be refreshing for the Egyptian people to overthrow Mubarak.

[Hamza Asadullah]

:sl:


Of course the future is very unpredictable but the US and Israel have to maintain their ties in order to achieve each others agendas. Why else would the US heavily fund Israel?

Read the following links for more information into their relationship:

Inside the US-Israel lobby

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/am...947701244.html

They do have a base in Israel:

US bases powerful radar in Israel

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7641570.stm


And Allah knows best in all matters

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

Of course the future is very unpredictable but the US and Israel have to maintain their ties in order to achieve each others agendas.

:sl:

What agenda? This will be a good starting point.

Why else would the US heavily fund Israel?

American Israeli Public Affair Committee (AIPAC). AIPAC puts pressure on the US government to shape its foreign policy to favour Israel. This lobby ensures that US politicians continue to support Israel, otherwise, AIPAC will damage these politicians reputation through the mainstream media which will have a negative impact on their election campaign.

For more information:

ISRAEL LOBBY AND US FOREIGN POLICY

ISRAEL LOBBY DOCUMENTARY

Inside the US-Israel lobby

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/am...947701244.html

The US will not benefit from taking a hostile stance against Iran. The only reason the US is taking an aggressive stance against Iran is because of the lobby.

They do have a base in Israel:

US bases powerful radar in Israel

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7641570.stm

I should make myself clear. There are US military bases in the Middle East, like in Iraq and in Saudi Arabia (I think the US military bases are removed from Saudi Arabia but I'm not sure).

Supported US locations in the Middle East

^ My question should have been, does Israel maintain these bases?

I conclude that Israel is not a useful ally to America. Israel and AIPAC are putting pressure on the US government to take a hostile stance against Iran and Syria and pressured the US government to attack Iraq in 2003. Within AIPAC, there are some who believe the US should also attack Saudi Arabia, Libya and Egypt.

America will not benefit from all these wars...neither will Israel. This means, there is a possibility that in America, the public might put pressure on the government to break its ties with Israel, because US hasn't got a lot to benefit from Israel, especially, if it puts pressure on the US to attack these countries...but this is very unlikely.

EDIT:

Sorry, we are off topic. Shall we create a new topic?

[Hamza Asadullah]

Israel’s Fission Field Warfare: Pakistan, Iraq and Egypt

http://www.maskofzion.com/2011/02/is...-pakistan.html

[IslamicRevival]

Egyptian Warriors :) Alhamdulillah, May Allah Azzawajal grant the martyrs the highest rank in Jannah, Ameen, Ameen!

I now hope the army, who seem to be up America's backside listen to the demands of the Egyptian public and give POWER to the people. If they do, The end is nigh for Israhell, They will get the taste of their own medicine, but WORSE InshAllah Azzawajal

Next stop, SAUDI ARABIA And ALGERIA. To hell with these dictators

[جوري]

only very high ranking egyptian army personnel may still be up someone's backside.. but believe me the rest are conscripted of the people and they truly represent the people.. we love them so.. all my uncles with the exception of one were in the army and many of my cousins.. like the people on the streets said.. the army and the people are one hand.. and it is true.. at least we hope insha'Allah

[Ummu Sufyaan]

the hard work isn't done yet. its only starting and if there's no good leader there, then its Mubarak all over again. we must keep Egypt in our duas for Allah to put a god fearing person over them for leadership.

[جوري]

if it is going to be one of those secular people the west is pushing for then we're screwed like el barad3i or 3mr musa.. el barad3i is a joke as is he hasn't lived in Egypt that opportunist he just came in to piggy back on something that started without him.. we need scholars to run for this.. people who know the true law and are politically savvy .. and the west should stay out.. they should keep out. .. where the hell were they before if they truly cared about Egypt?

[Ramadhan]

I don't think you can really look at it country by country. The perception of Iran (rightly or wrongly) is that it might constitute a threat to regional stability. Any sort of armed conflict with Israel, even of a limited nature, would have a huge effect on oil availability and price (just as the 1973 war did).

I find it as evidence of how so much successful zionist power and influence in the US that even a learned and knowledgeable citizen of the US like you are still denying that your government protect Israel at any cost.

What are you afraid of, being called an anti-semite?

It reminds me of the successful propaganda and brainwash during Suharto years in Indonesia that people censored themselves and dared speak no ill about our government.

[Rabi Mansur]

Where next? Libya? Yemen? Jordan? Syria?

The whole region is ripe for throwing out these dictators.
:wa:

[Darth Ultor]

I am not a fan of theocracies. I hope for a secular democratic government that respects all religions.

[جوري]

Islam respects all religions.. I am a fan of Islam boaz.. perhaps one day you'll be too

peace

Where next? Libya? Yemen? Jordan? Syria? The whole region is ripe for throwing out these dictators.

Hopefully all.. they all suck.. but I fear they don't have that Egyptian will in certain regions and I know Syria would honestly be a bloodbath ... they're just as bad as Egypt if not worst when it comes to torturing people..

[Trumble]

I find it as evidence of how so much successful zionist power and influence in the US that even a learned and knowledgeable citizen of the US like you are still denying that your government protect Israel at any cost.

You've totally lost me. My post was responding to your point about why the US government did not support the government of Iran, despite the fact that the oil still flows. I didn't say anything at all about 'protecting Israel'.

I'm not a citizen of the US, BTW.

[Martinz]

It is very unlikely Iran will attack Israel. What makes you think Iran will attack Israel? Or do you mean Israel will attack Iran?

The world is so critical of Irans' Nuclear capability. But, no one seems to be concerned that Israel has nuclear missiles, as well as their reputation of attacking others on the smallest excuse! Not a very good combination.

I have sent an email to the Whitehouse about my concerns on this but I didn't receive an answer.

[GuestFellow]

The world is so critical of Irans' Nuclear capability. But, no one seems to be concerned that Israel has nuclear missiles, as well as their reputation of attacking others on the smallest excuse! Not a very good combination.

I have sent an email to the Whitehouse about my concerns on this but I didn't receive an answer.

Israel has not signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty but Iran has. Whether Iran is complying with this treaty is a separate issue.

[IslamicRevival]

Israel has not signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty but Iran has. Whether Iran is complying with this treaty is a separate issue.

Iran are indeed complying with the Nuclear treaty, I would have imagined the US would have stepped up their vicious propaganda through the media if they did not :) [I'm behind Iran 110%, They are a powerful country Almadulillah and no one dare point a missile towards their nuclear facilities]

Back to Egypt, The day i see the Israhelli embassy in Egypt, not only shutdown BUT knocked down, That is when we can start dreaming about a new Middle east order. InshAllah the Egyptian army will wake up and get their priorities right.

[Trumble]

Iran are indeed complying with the Nuclear treaty

LOL.

Back to Egypt, The day i see the Israhelli embassy in Egypt, not only shutdown BUT knocked down, That is when we can start dreaming about a new Middle east order. InshAllah the Egyptian army will wake up and get their priorities right.

I'm afraid that comment only explains both why Israel has nuclear weapons and why it's in no hurry to get rid of them.

[IslamicRevival]

I'm afraid that comment only explains both why Israel has nuclear weapons and why it's in no hurry to get rid of them.

What the hell is an Israhelli embassy doing in EGYPT anyway?
And why does Israhell need nuclear weapons...Who else in the Middle east has them?

Also, what an intelligent response, 'LOL'?

[جوري]

And why does Israhell need nuclear weapons

this is why it has them:



so they can systematically wipe out Palestinians while feigning being victimized by Hamas and draining people's money on the side.. watch the video while you can as the speaker said, any sort of visual truths is consistently wiped off the net!

[جوري]

I hope to God that the Egyptians collectively stand up to that cockroach settler state as they stood up to their pharonic tyrant..
ameen thouma ameen

pls. everyone make du3a for a proper Islamic state to be born of these massive demonstrations through out the middle east.. America can't pretend to be a friend to every nation while spreading their poisonous tentacles everywhere they could, they're going to whittle themselves away here and there trying to nip it in the bud and before you know it the people here too will go out protesting the mal use of their resources and their lives!

[Trumble]

What the hell is an Israhelli embassy doing in EGYPT anyway?

Much the same thing as the Syrian embassy, the Chinese embassy, the French embassy and any other you could name.

And why does Israhell need nuclear weapons...Who else in the Middle east has them?

Nobody - yet. But surely it isn't to difficult to appreciate, whatever your view on Israel may be, that the Israelis themselves view nukes as essential to their security? From their perspective, the possibility of being surrounded by those looking for a "new Middle east order" that doesn't include their own country - particularly those with guns, tanks and planes - isn't overly attractive.

Also, what an intelligent response, 'LOL'?

In all modesty, I think so. No need to use more bandwidth than necessary.

[GuestFellow]

Also, what an intelligent response, 'LOL'?

:sl:

He had nothing good to contribute...or probably suffering from a mental disorder. :hiding:

Iran are indeed complying with the Nuclear treaty

I have doubts. In the region, there are US military bases in Iraq, Bahrain, Oman, Kuwait, UAE, Qatar and in Saudi Arabia. However, I think the bases in Saudi Arabia have been removed.

US Bases

There are also troops in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Iran is completely surrounded. Arab nations, Israel and the West are all hostile to Iran. USA has threatened to attack Iran as well.

Iran has a few allies which are Syria, Hamas and Hezbollah. So, there is a strong possibility that Iran may create nuclear weapons in these circumstances.

I think there would be a balance of power in the region if Iran were to get nuclear weapons but then some Arab countries might want them as well. This is not good for the US or Israel because they cannot behave like tyrants anymore.

[Ramadhan]

Much the same thing as the Syrian embassy, the Chinese embassy, the French embassy and any other you could name.

He was surprised that there is Israeli embassy in Egypt because there's no israeli embassy in most muslim countries. For example, there's no israeli embassy in Indonesia because we don't have diplomatic relation with Israel, and we are officially not allowed to visit Israel (at least directly).

Nobody - yet. But surely it isn't to difficult to appreciate, whatever your view on Israel may be, that the Israelis themselves view nukes as essential to their security? From their perspective, the possibility of being surrounded by those looking for a "new Middle east order" that doesn't include their own country - particularly those with guns, tanks and planes - isn't overly attractive.

I'm trying to discern your stement.
Does this mean you are agreeing that Israel should have nuclear weapon?

And isn't "new middle east order" the one drawn by the american neo-cons?
And why Israel concerned with the new middle east order, as it should be even more favorable to them?
Or are you making up a new one yourself?

[GuestFellow]

Nobody - yet. But surely it isn't to difficult to appreciate, whatever your view on Israel may be, that the Israelis themselves view nukes as essential to their security? From their perspective, the possibility of being surrounded by those looking for a "new Middle east order" that doesn't include their own country - particularly those with guns, tanks and planes - isn't overly attractive.

Israel is still a powerful country, even without nuclear weapons. It has support from western countries too. The US military and financial support is essential to Israel security, not nuclear weapons.

Besides, most Arab countries support the US and hold US military bases. To claim Israel is surrounded by hostile neighbours is not entirely true. Syria, Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah are openly hostile to Israel. Two countries plus to small groups is not a significant threat.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

First of all, congratulation to the brothers and sisters in Egypt. Alhamdullilah immense courage, immense.

However there is a shadow, and that's the legacy of Western, primarily American domination in the affairs of the people of Egypt. There will be no peace in Egypt till foreign powers leave the peoples of Egypt to control their own affairs and determine their own destines as a sovereign people, free in mind and body.

However rather predictability Western powers are not going to allow Egypt to follow an independent path that could be detrimental to their 'interests' (re: domination of the Middle Eastern resources etc etc). They don't even deny it. Check this out, Tony 'trust me' Blair, on what he wants (re: commands) from the Egyptian people.



Slippery and deceptive as ever, but you learn.

The hard work must begin now, to build a better society, where people have access to education, health care and have the ability to live decent and fulfilling lives.

Much the same thing as the Syrian embassy, the Chinese embassy, the French embassy and any other you could name.

Yes, but the other countries mentioned do not have a history of hostility to Egypt (well France but that was centuries ago) so I don't think the peoples of Egypt would have a problem with them. However ask Egyptians whether they want an Israeli embassy in their country, given their (bitter) history between them. What do you think the answer would be?

Perhaps when there is a just peace between the players involved then maybe but until then.

Nobody - yet. But surely it isn't to difficult to appreciate, whatever your view on Israel may be, that the Israelis themselves view nukes as essential to their security? From their perspective, the possibility of being surrounded by those looking for a "new Middle east order" that doesn't include their own country - particularly those with guns, tanks and planes - isn't overly attractive.

No. The idea that nuclear weapons bring security is crazy, it actually creates an environment which can lead to escalation. Hardly surprising that other powers should seek the same weapons to act as a deterrent, particular against western adventurism.

If you read books (eg. Mechiro shel, Ihud, in Hebrew) by top Israeli decision makers security has been a secondary issue, they are more concerned with access to 'water' and the 'demographic problem' (translate: too many Arabs in a Jewish state).

Israel also has covert but good relationships with most Arab states particularly the Gulf monarchies (despite their public rhetoric), couple this with having the 4th most powerful army in the world, the idea that they are under some sort of immediate threat is questionable to put it mildly.

Nobody wants war in the region despite the hot headed talk. However until there's a just peace to the middle east conflict Israel will be considered a hostile pariah state. I'm glad to say this view is steadily but surely gaining ground internationally, hardly surprising when people read and understand the history.

On the whole whether Iran has or wants nuclear weapons, Im not sure, however I think speculation on this issue can be dangerous, after all we don't have to look too far back to see where 'speculation' can lead us.

[Trumble]

Israel is still a powerful country, even without nuclear weapons. It has support from western countries too. The US military and financial support is essential to Israel security, not nuclear weapons.

Only if that military and financial support exists. Ultimately, it is the US that decides that, not Israel. Their nukes, though, are under Israeli control... and the thinking would be that is the only way to best guarantee security.

Besides, most Arab countries support the US and hold US military bases. To claim Israel is surrounded by hostile neighbours is not entirely true. Syria, Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah are openly hostile to Israel. Two countries plus to small groups is not a significant threat.

Israel is surrounded by potentially hostile neighbours. The thinking there would surely be that one or two regime changes - particularly in the current climate - and who knows?

Yes, but the other countries mentioned do not have a history of hostility to Egypt (well France but that was centuries ago) so I don't think the peoples of Egypt would have a problem with them. However ask Egyptians whether they want an Israeli embassy in their country, given their (bitter) history between them. What do you think the answer would be?

It is where there is a bitter history, and the possibility of future conflict, that a diplomatic presence is most needed. Virtually every country has a 'bitter history' with somebody-or-other, sometimes with the last armed conflict being rather more recent than that between Egypt and Israel. They still have embassies in each other's country.

Perhaps when there is a just peace between the players involved then maybe but until then.

In what way do you consider the peace deal between Egypt and Israel unjust? Sure, neither side gave a d*mn about the Palestinians at that time but, despite the alternative histories occasionally printed here, neither did the other Arab or muslim countries either. About the only people who did were assorted bunches of European Marxist revolutionaries.

No. The idea that nuclear weapons bring security is crazy, it actually creates an environment which can lead to escalation.

I wouldn't disagree with you as regards the situation in 2011. Whether it was also true in 1970, from the Israeli perspective, is a different question. The question for Israel now is not whether they should develop nuclear weapons, but whether they should get rid of them. They would be unlikely to consider that a good idea even without the Iranian nuclear program; with it they will never consider it. And, to an Israeli is the idea even that crazy? After all, Israel is still there.

Hardly surprising that other powers should seek the same weapons to act as a deterrent, particular against western adventurism.

They are not remotely concerned about "western adventurism", and even if they were what do you suggest they do - invite a nuclear exchange with the United States? It's all about prestige and bragging rights, not security.

Nobody wants war in the region despite the hot headed talk. However until there's a just peace to the middle east conflict Israel will be considered a hostile pariah state. I'm glad to say this view is steadily but surely gaining ground internationally, hardly surprising when people read and understand the history.

True.

On the whole whether Iran has or wants nuclear weapons, Im not sure, however I think speculation on this issue can be dangerous, after all we don't have to look too far back to see where 'speculation' can lead us.

.. and I must concede that point!

[Dagless]

Iran are indeed complying with the Nuclear treaty, I would have imagined the US would have stepped up their vicious propaganda through the media if they did not :)

^Probably the most important comment about Iran in this thread.
People are saying Iran is developing weapons but the fact is that not even the IAEA have said Iran has violated the treaty. I would imagine the IAEA know more about their program than people in this thread. Btw where is the criticism of the countries which are trying to stop Iran through illegal means? Stuxnet? The threat of war or bombing? The UN Charter prohibits the threat of force so what they're doing IS illegal rather than Iran's "suspected" violations.

Btw lol@ Blair, like anyone believes a word that comes out of his mouth.

[GuestFellow]

Only if that military and financial support exists. Ultimately, it is the US that decides that, not Israel. Their nukes, though, are under Israeli control... and the thinking would be that is the only way to best guarantee security.

Not necessarily. AIPAC has significant influence over the US government. In the foreseeable future, it is unlikely that America will stop supporting Israel.

As for the nukes, it is the best way to guarantee security. I agree with you there. However, nuclear weapons will not solve all of its problem, especially against Hamas. If Israel were to use nuclear weapons, more people are going to be angry with Israel and might resort to terrorism.

Israel is surrounded by potentially hostile neighbours. The thinking there would surely be that one or two regime changes - particularly in the current climate - and who knows?

Israel, to some extent, is at fault. Countries do not become hostile to other countries for no reason. If Israel takes the peace process seriously, defines its borders and a Palestinian State is created, then it is unlikely there will be any hostile neighbours.

[Trumble]

Israel, to some extent, is at fault. Countries do not become hostile to other countries for no reason. If Israel takes the peace process seriously, defines its borders and a Palestinian State is created, then it is unlikely there will be any hostile neighbours.

I totally agree. As usual, here, I am not 'defending' Israel and am certainly not supporting them or anybody else having nuclear weapons. I am trying to explain their perspective as I see it. No peace is possible unless both sides understand the others point of view, and their needs, wishes and aspirations.

[جوري]

In what way do you consider the peace deal between Egypt and Israel unjust? Sure, neither side gave a d*mn about the Palestinians

correction.. Egyptians very much give a D amn about the Palestinians. Sadat and his friends don't represent Egypt!
Egypt is the people not a despot!


all the best

[Danah]

me too..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMIuC...eature=related

enjoy the sight of your brothers and sisters loving what you love!

thats amazing subhanAllah

Watch this video, the Imam of the Masjid Nabawi in Madinah was crying making duaa to Egypt in the first week of the revolution

[IslamicRevival]

Much the same thing as the Syrian embassy, the Chinese embassy, the French embassy and any other you could name.

An Israeli embassy on Arab soil? Does that make sense to you? If the Egyptian PEOPLE had it their way, The devils embassy would never exist on its land!

Nobody - yet. But surely it isn't to difficult to appreciate, whatever your view on Israel may be, that the Israelis themselves view nukes as essential to their security? From their perspective, the possibility of being surrounded by those looking for a "new Middle east order" that doesn't include their own country - particularly those with guns, tanks and planes - isn't overly attractive.

Essential to 'Their' security? Why do Israhell feel 'threatened' in the first place?

Maybe its to do with the fact that Israhell should not even exist in the first place?!

In all modesty, I think so. No need to use more bandwidth than necessary.

What do you care about 'bandwith' ...what with the rubbish you've posted above?

[IslamicRevival]

:sl:

He had nothing good to contribute...or probably suffering from a mental disorder. :hiding:



I have doubts. In the region, there are US military bases in Iraq, Bahrain, Oman, Kuwait, UAE, Qatar and in Saudi Arabia. However, I think the bases in Saudi Arabia have been removed.

US Bases

There are also troops in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Iran is completely surrounded. Arab nations, Israel and the West are all hostile to Iran. USA has threatened to attack Iran as well.

Iran has a few allies which are Syria, Hamas and Hezbollah. So, there is a strong possibility that Iran may create nuclear weapons in these circumstances.

I think there would be a balance of power in the region if Iran were to get nuclear weapons but then some Arab countries might want them as well. This is not good for the US or Israel because they cannot behave like tyrants anymore.

Yeah, im aware Iran are surrounded on all fronts
...If they are creating Nuclear weapons, i am with them

[جوري]

thats amazing subhanAllah

Watch this video, the Imam of the Masjid Nabawi in Madinah was crying making duaa to Egypt in the first week of the revolution

I was very touched by that when I first saw it let me tell you.. I knew Allah swt would be on our side if we'd just hold on to his rope and he did al7mdlillah.. the most important thing are the stages to come.. I really want the ummah to let go of this British imposed pan-Arabism and know that we're indeed one ummah.. one heart and stand against those oppressive tyrants.. and I feel the change will sweep over one country after the next after the next in the middle east insha'Allah until we're united on khilafah rashida

ameen ya rabb thouma ameen..
the rest of the ummah will come to learn what we on this forum already know..

:w:

[Ummu Sufyaan]

I am not a fan of theocracies. I hope for a secular democratic government that respects all religions.

dont pin your hopes on it. so called democracies are incredibly hypocritical as has been proven time and time again.

[Darth Ultor]

Well, no theocracy has ever worked either. Any country that rules with a religion twists the religion.

Now, Mubarak's gotta find a new job. How about sweeping the streets or becoming a prostitute?

[Islam is peace]

Alhamu Illah Allhamdu illah. i just hope our brothers and sisters in Egypt and the rest of the arab world gets the freedom that all muslims deserve.

[peace_maker]

The clashes in Yemen and Bahrain are getting bigger. But no nation is like Egypt. They proved themselves that they are peaceful, patient and most of all, the are one. They showed everyone that they are united.

[Martinz]

A very good discussion here. Finally hearing good discussion concerning Israeli nucear weapons, which is totally ignored by mainstream media and politicians. Iran won't admit it but I feel that they may actually feel threatened by Israels nuclear capabilities.

Anyway, getting back to Egypt and its effects on the Middle East: here is an excerpt from an article written by Ali Abunimah which was emailed to me by Jewish Peace News:

The revolution has reawakened a sense of a common destiny for the Arab world many thought had been lost, that seemed naive when our mothers and fathers told us about it from their youth, and that Arab leaders had certainly tried to kill. The Arab dictators, who are as dead inside as Mubarak showed himself to be in his awful televised speeches, thought their peoples' spirits were dead too. The revolutions have restored a sense of limitless possibility and a desire that change should spread from country to country.

Whatever happens next, the Egyptian revolution will also have a profound effect on the regional balance of power. Undoubtedly the United States, Israel and their allies are already weaker as a result. First they lost Tunisia, and then suffered a severe setback with the collapse of the US-backed Lebanese government of Rafiq Hariri, and now Mubarak and Omar Suleiman, the closest and most enthusiastic collaborators with Israel except perhaps for Mahmoud Abbas and his cronies in Ramallah.

On many minds -- especially Israeli and American ones -- has been the question of whether a new democratic Egyptian government will tear up the 1979 peace treaty with Israel. That of course, is up to the Egyptian people, although the transitional military government confirmed in its fourth statement Egypt's adherence to "all international and regional treaties."

But the treaty is not really the issue. Even if democratic Egypt maintains the treaty, the treaty never required Egypt to join Israeli and American conspiracies against other Arabs. It never required Egypt to become the keystone in an American-led alliance with Israel and Saudi Arabia against an allegedly expansionist Iran. It never required Egypt to adopt and disseminate the vile "Sunni vs. Shia" sectarian rhetoric that was deliberately used to try to shore up this narrative of confrontation. It never required Egypt to participate in Israel's cruel siege of Gaza or collaborate closely with its intelligence services against Palestinians. It never required Egypt to become a world center of torture for the United States in its so-called "War on Terror." The treaty did not require Egypt to shoot dead migrants crossing Sinai from other parts of Africa just to spare Israelis from seeing black people in Tel Aviv. No treaty required or requires Egypt to carry on with these and so many more shameful policies that earned Hosni Mubarak and has regime the hatred of millions of Arabs and others far beyond Egypt's borders.

There is no doubt that the United States will not give up its hegemony in Egypt easily, and will do all it can to frustrate any Egyptian move toward an independent regional policy, using as leverage its deep ties and enormous aid to the Egyptian military that now rules the country. The regional ambitions of the United States remain the main external threat to the success of Egypt's revolution.

Whatever break or continuity there is with Egypt's past policies, the calculations have changed for remaining members of the so-called "alliance of moderates," particularly Saudi Arabia -- which allegedly offered to prop Mubarak up financially if the US withdrew its aid -- Jordan and the Palestinian Authority.

For many years, these regimes, like Egypt, bet their security and survival on a virtually unconditional alliance with the United States: they abandoned all dignified, independent and principled positions and adopted America's hegemonic aspirations as their own, in exchange for assistance, and what they hoped was a guarantee that the US would come to their rescue if they got in trouble.

What the revolutions demonstrate to all Arab regimes is that the United States cannot rescue you in the end. No amount of "security assistance" (training, tear gas, weapons), financial aid, or intelligence cooperation from the United States or France can withstand a population that has decided it has had enough. These regimes' room for maneuver has shrunk even if the sorts of uprisings seen in Egypt and Tunisia are not imminent elsewhere.

After the revolutions, people's expectations have been raised and their tolerance for the old ways diminished. Whether things go on as they have for a few weeks, a few months, or even a few more years in this or that country, the pressures and demands for change will be irresistible. The remaining Arab regimes must now ask not if change will happen but how.

[جوري]

becoming a prostitute?

he was a prostitute to western demands for 31 yrs and he made quite the fortune of it now he can do what prostitutes do best and write his memoirs in his twilight yrs..

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace


Mubarak may have stolen $70 billion from Egyptians -- one third of their national income!

Getting it back will require immediate action from governments around the world. Sign the emergency petition to freeze Mubarak's assets now, and then forward this message!

Let's call on leaders of all nations to ensure that Egypt's money is returned to the people. Our petition will be delivered, if we reach 500,000 signatures, to G20 finance ministers when they meet this Friday in Paris. Let's add our names now and spread the word!

http://www.avaaz.org/en/mubaraks_fortune/?vl

[جوري]

he learned well from Ben Ali.. divided his fortune well during the discourse of those 18 days.. put much of it in Israel, the gulf, it isn't all in Swiss banks you know...
may Allah swt rid us of him and his ilk..

:w:

[Pygoscelis]

Wouldn't a democracy full of fundamentalist religoius people simply vote itself into being a theocracy?

[- Qatada -]

Wouldn't a democracy full of fundamentalist religoius people simply vote itself into being a theocracy?

That's what democracy is supposed to do - establish what the Majority want.

[titus]

Yes, but it will be interesting to see what they elect to do.

Will they move towards a Sharia government? Will they attempt to institute a khalifate, or will they elect to remain a democracy? Or will they attempt some hybrid of the two?

It would be interesting to see what would happen if they voted to give away their right to vote.

[جوري]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if they voted to give away their right to vote.

Egyptians gave away the right to their voices when they succumbed to the evil tentacles of the west. 'Secularism' did away with any right to vote in Egypt and other Muslim majority regions. Insha'Allah with shari'a instituted all of that will change.. westerners can brain wash themselves as they attempt to brain wash others.. I think people want the evil grip of the west out of their countries and a new dawn for this ummah to rise again is looming on the horizon.. may the Zionists and their poodles in the west be forever more afraid of what is in store for them, and may our prisoners held without trial for the mere fact that they bear the label of Muslim be freed, with ever more renewed vigor to reclaim what is rightfully ours!

[جوري]

That's what democracy is supposed to do - establish what the Majority want.

I disagree that, that is what democracy establishes... you can have 50+1 usurping the opinion of 50-1.. that doesn't seem fair to me at all and it doesn't seem to me like a 'majority want' when nearly fifty percent will be oppressed.. a shura system is far superior since no voice gets neglected and no man made age cut-off!

:w:

[CosmicPathos]

It shocks me to see fb status of some Muslim friend's about the dawn of "democracy" in Egypt and they say "inshAllah" at the end! I am baffled .... to see my friends believe that seeking democracy (I assume they are referring to Western style democracy) is an Islamic ideal we all should strive for ... I hope people in Egypt demand for a Khilafah to be established. Its hard to choose a leader when there are so many sects abound.

Yesterday in one of our Individual and Medicine sessions, we were talking about the ethical issues surrounding ALS and the prof referred to what's happening in Middle East in regards to women rights. I am sure he'd like to see women back home become "totally free" as they are in his country... I kind of chuckled but had to keep my calm in regards to his stupid comment. These western folk really think they are in a position to make comments about Muslim societies while they sit in their ivory towers.

[جوري]

there are so many sects abound.

There are no sects in Egypt.. 90% of the country are sunni Muslim and 10% christians who have co-existed for millenniums except now with the leadership of the formerly imprisoned shenuda who is the devil's son in our midst.. If Egyptians would simply as they've done in the revolution which the west didn't want to see to fruition would simply seal off their country to these foreign influences and establish their khalifate we'd be the old empire we once were.. but I doubt with this much infiltration in the country where the devil truly has his tentacles that, that kind of radical change would happen yet.. as is they're pushing the drunkard amr musa, and the other sellout al-bard3i who has been outside of Egypt for 30+ yrs or other idiots of the likes.. it is as if they threw away the old regime on paper but can't rid themselves of the same disgusting recycled individuals and out there (those proclaiming friendship) are singing about the billion dollar they allegedly give and the money Egypt makes from tourism.. Well the billion dollar didn't help the Egyptians any, in fact it was blood money.. that is the price paid to imprison and murder Muslims without trial.. and tourism doesn't have to come from the cheap and cheesy twits of the west who make a negligible portion of the world's population!

fact of the matter is, if they divided Mubarak's fortune on every Egyptian each individual would be a millionaire..

I want these western turds to stay the hell out of Egypt.. it is in a very fragile state and they just want to suck its blood some more...

the only thing we can offer again is simply our du3a and that it trickles down on the ummah just the same so we can take each other's hands and rise again.. look how long it took them to dismantle the Ottoman's and look how long it has taken us to wake up!

:w:

[CosmicPathos]

There are no sects in Egypt.. 90% of the country are sunni Muslim and 10% christians who have co-existed for millenniums except now with the leadership of the formerly imprisoned shenuda who is the devil's son in our midst.. If Egyptians would simply as they've done in the revolution which the west didn't want to see to fruition would simply seal off their country to these foreign influences and establish their khalifate we'd be the old empire we once were.. but I doubt with this much infiltration in the country where the devil truly has his tentacles that, that kind of radical change would happen yet.. as is they're pushing the drunkard amr musa, and the other sellout al-bard3i who has been outside of Egypt for 30+ yrs or other idiots of the likes.. it is as if they threw away the old regime on paper but can't rid themselves of the same disgusting recycled individuals and out there (those proclaiming friendship) are singing about the billion dollar they allegedly give and the money Egypt makes from tourism.. Well the billion dollar didn't help the Egyptians any, in fact it was blood money.. that is the price paid to imprison and murder Muslims without trial.. and tourism doesn't have to come from the cheap and cheesy twits of the west who make a negligible portion of the world's population!

fact of the matter is, if they divided Mubarak's fortune on every Egyptian each individual would be a millionaire..

I want these western turds to stay the hell out of Egypt.. it is in a very fragile state and they just want to suck its blood some more...

the only thing we can offer again is simply our du3a and that it trickles down on the ummah just the same so we can take each other's hands and rise again.. look how long it took them to dismantle the Ottoman's and look how long it has taken us to wake up!

:w:

Indeed. I am sure Israel was hard at work through its networks to actually direct the movement in Egypt according to its agenda. Also that mubarak sob used that time while he kept saying that hell get down in next elections to finish off any last minute jobs that his master israel had asked him to do. People should have descended upon his palace the very same day and ripped it down to shards.

This stupid Graeco-Turkish girl in my group, who happened to spend 3-4 years in Saudi while her parents were working there, was saying stupid things about Muslim brothers and sisters in Saudi to our mentor. "There is no privacy, if you are ill, the whole community knows what disease you have. You have no autonomy in Saudi arabia." I wanted to slap her so hard .... she was whining like a b***

[جوري]

Indeed. I am sure Israel was hard at work through its networks to actually direct the movement in Egypt according to its agenda. Also that mubarak sob used that time while he kept saying that hell get down in next elections to finish off any last minute jobs that his master israel had asked him to do. People should have descended upon his palace the very same day and ripped it down to shards. This stupid Graeco-Turkish girl in my group, who happened to spend 3-4 years in Saudi while her parents were working there, was saying stupid things about Muslim brothers and sisters in Saudi to our mentor. "There is no privacy, if you are ill, the whole

community knows what disease you have. You have no autonomy in Saudi arabia." I wanted to slap her so hard .... she was whining like a b***

Yeah.. I read alot of crap that bugs me daily.. believe me the kaffirs on this board are heavenly compared to what is encountered out there even from alleged Muslims.. but I trust that everything will work out according to Allah swt's plan .. I believe that good is obvious but becomes jaded to many with all the distortions that are dispensed around the clock and at this crucial time.. but I trust that if the intentions are pure, then Allah swt is with that majority.. how many a small host has overcome a mighty one by God's will?

let's do our part with du3a insha'Allah and believe in the divine decree..

:w:

[Rhubarb Tart]

"There is no privacy, if you are ill, the whole community knows what disease you have. You have no autonomy in Saudi arabia." I wanted to slap her so hard .... she was whining like a b***

Salam


If that is true, I dont see any thing wrong with what she said. If she is lied then that would be a different matter.


I do hope Egypt get a fair leader who follows shariah ishallah

[GuestFellow]

If the Caliphate were to be established in Egypt, how would it occur? Will it be introduced gradually?

[Pygoscelis]

That's what democracy is supposed to do - establish what the Majority want.

And that is my point. Such a democracy would be short lived, as the people would simply vote to end democracy.

BTW lets not confuse democracy with the interventions of the west. Democracy is an ideal which essentially boils down to the popular vote being in control instead of a king or unelected council, or religious order.

As was said above, it will be interesting to see if after forcing out the previous regime and fighting to make their voices heard they then silence themselves voluntarily by sweeping away the concept of democracy just because the word is distasteful to them due to its association with the west.

Egyptian democracy need not have anything to do with western "democracy". The question is do people wish to be in control through their own representatives or subjugate themselves to a new ruler. Perhaps the former, or given the culture, perhaps the latter.

[جوري]

If the Caliphate were to be established in Egypt, how would it occur? Will it be introduced gradually?

There was a conference today about the distoor and it is unanimous that it is Islamic.. however that only applies to the courts/judicial system but not much else for now.. we'll see how the rest goes insha'Allah.. but at least that is a start and in fact I believe that it was mostly implemented before with a few interferences here and there ..

:w:

[CosmicPathos]

Salam


If that is true, I dont see any thing wrong with what she said. If she is lied then that would be a different matter.


I do hope Egypt get a fair leader who follows shariah ishallah

Do you have reading comprehension skills? That is exactly what I am saying that she is lying. I was never forced to publicly announce what diseases I had the whole time I lived in Saudi.

And btw, the concept of patient autonomy and consent arise from reinterpretation of Western philosophy. Even in the West, 50 years ago, a paternalistic doctor was considered to be a good doctor! So please, read the history of how the thought (complete patient autonomy with no input from family members especially parents), which it seems you have made to be your deity, evolved in the West in the last 30 years.

Do you know that the thought you are promoting so desperately goes against Islamic principles? Do you know that under patient autonomy, a patient has the right to ask for euthanasia? it is allowed in some European country. I can forsee that in next 20 years, euthanasia will be acceptable in Canada as well. Right now passive euthanasia is practiced everywhere which basically means taht you let go of life-prolonging treatment and let the disease take its natural course which is of course death. Some islamic scholars have said that this is allowed, for example Sheikh Munajjid and Bilal Philips etc in regards to signing a Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) form. But then Sheikh Munajjid has also allowed women to undergo breast augmentation surgery for cosmetic purposes!

Where does Islam tell to loose hope? Rather Prophet told us to seek medicine. To let go of treatment just because it will not benefit is like saying you know the future and know for sure that death is inevitable. Are you God?

Anyways you made me go off-topic. You are already known as a snotty person on these boards. Ill spare you rational argumentation.

[MustafaMc]

I heard an ayat today that I thought was pertinent to this discussion 58:10 "Indeed, malicious private discourse is prompted by Shaytan to grieve those who believe. Yet never shall he harm them in anything, except by the permission of Allah. So upon Allah alone let the believers rely." Those who are scheming to manipulate the situation in Egypt against the good of the people can only succeed to the extent that Allah (swt) has willed.

[titus]

There was a conference today about the distoor and it is unanimous that it is Islamic..

Can you post any links concerning this and who was involved?

[جوري]

Can you post any links concerning this and who was involved?

http://www.almasry-alyoum.com/

knock yourself out


أكد فضيلة الدكتور أحمد الطيب شيخ الأزهر أن مصر دولة إسلامية بشهادة الواقع وبنص الدستور، مؤكدا أن طبيعة الدولة الإسلامية هي طبيعة مدنية وليست طائفية على النحو الذي عرفته أوربا في القرون الوسطى.

ووفق ما نقلت صحيفة "المصريون" قال الطيب أن كون مصر دولة إسلامية لا يعني أي إهدار لحقوق الطوائف والديانات الأخرى ، بل الإسلام معني بالدفاع عن تلك الحقوق للآخرين وحفظ أنفسهم وممتلكاته وحماية دور عبادتهم بموجب أحكام القرآن الكريم ذاته ، وبنفس القدر الذي نحمي به المساجد.

وفي معرض إجابته على سؤال عن النص الدستوري الذي يثير البعض حوله الجدل من أن مصر دولة إسلامية ، قال الطيب : طبعا دولة إسلامية ، هل هي ـ مصر ـ غير ذلك ، وإذا لم تكن مصر إسلامية فماذا تسميها ، ويجب أن تفرق بين الدولة الإسلامية المدنية وبين الدولة الدينية الثيوقراطية التي لا يعرفها تاريخ الإسلام والمسلمين .

وأضاف الطيب قوله: هناك دساتير أوربية عديدة تنص على أن المسيحية دين الدولة ، والنص الدستوري على أن مصر دولة إسلامية تعبير عن هوية مجتمع وهوية دولة لها ثقل في المنطقة، والمنطقة منطقة إسلامية.

وأعاد الطيب تأكيده بصورة استنكارية ردا على التحرش بإسلامية مصر فقال من جديد مكررا كلامه: إذا لم تكن مصر عربية إسلامية فماذا تكون؟ وماذا يحدث لدورها في العالم العربي والإسلامي ؟ إنك إذا أسقطت عن مصر الإسلام والعروبة فكأنك تنزع عنها جلدها وأصلها.

وقال الطيب أن هناك مفكرين وقانونيين أقباط درسوا هذه المسألة وأكدوا على أن الشريعة الإسلامية لا تمثل أي مساس بحقوق الأقليات أو الطوائف الأخرى، وبالتالي فكون مصر دولة إسلامية وتطبيق الشريعة لا يمس أبدا بحقوق إخواننا الأقباط.

وأضاف شيخ الأزهر قوله: أنا هنا أكرر ما قاله أحد كبار رجال الدين المسيحي الذي قال: أنا تحميني الشريعة الإسلامية والأزهر أكثر مما يحميني أي دستور مكتوب.

وقال فضيلة الشيخ:إن المسلمين في مصر لا يقبلون أن يرجعوا في تنظيم حياتهم لغير أحكام الشريعة، وإذا أهدرنا أحكام الشريعة فهل تريدونا مثلا أن نستورد من الغرب أحكام الميراث والزواج، هذا أسميه عبثا بهويتنا، وأحب أن أقول أن كبار رجال القانون من الإخوة الأقباط كانوا مشاركين في صياغة دساتير مصر جميعا، منذ دستور 1923 وحتى الآن ، وجميعهم قبلوا النص على أن دين الدولة هو الإسلام .

وأكد فضيلة شيخ الأزهر في حواره المهم الذي نشرته مجلة المصور أن الأخوة بين المسلمين والأقباط في مصر هي واجب ديني وضرورة حياة وهي عميقة وراسخة عبر التاريخ والعيش تحت ظل وطن واحد، مشيرا إلى أن الانفعالات والأحداث الطائفية التي تقع هنا أو هناك هي عارضة ومنبعها الجهل، مشيرا إلى أن العلاقات بين القيادات الدينية في الكنيسة والأزهر علاقات طيبة تحفها الأخوة والاحترام المتبادل.

< السابق التالي > http://www.islamstory.com/%D9%85%D8%...AA%D9%88%D8%B1



all the best

[titus]

I am looking over the English version online and cannot find it. Would you have a more direct link? Or possible more information on this that you can post?

[جوري]

I am looking over the English version online and cannot find it. Would you have a more direct link? Or possible more information on this that you can post?

Egypt is an Islamic, Arabic speaking country.. chances are our internal affairs will be in Arabic.. why not try google translator? stick that chunk into it and see what comes of it-- and pass it off to the CIA .. I am sure the news is rather upsetting as was the end result of that revolt..

all the best

[titus]

Actually the English version has lots of articles about Egypts internal affairs, so that theory doesn't seem to hold water. You can't even mention who was at this conference?

[جوري]

Actually the English version has lots of articles about Egypts internal affairs, so that theory doesn't seem to hold water. You can't even mention who was at this conference?

if you can find alot of Egypt's affairs in English then by all means why are you wasting my time asking for articles?

It is there and sourced for all to see (sticking it into google translator) isn't that difficult-- whose name do you want? are familiar with Egyptians outside of Mubarak's circle? you're familiar with the azahris, our scholars and judges? .. if you don't like the above because it bothers your western sensibilities then skip it and buzz off-- believe me when I say it doesn't bother me one way or the other what you think so long as Egypt runs its affairs on Islam not confined only to its distoor.. but we're yet to see insha'Allah..


all the best

[titus]

I am just asking a simple question. If answering it bothers you then simply say so.

[جوري]

I am just asking a simple question. If answering it bothers you then simply say so.

and I have answered you with two links and the piece that I have read to get my info. The only one ready to burst at the seams here is you!
hope you take it as well when every facet of the country turns Islamic insha'Allah..

all the best

[titus]

I appreciate your help. Reading the English version of the site has been eye opening.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Well, no theocracy has ever worked either. Any country that rules with a religion twists the religion.

yes it did. Medina at the time of the prophet, sallahu alehi wa sallam.

[Darth Ultor]

*rolls eyes* You know exactly what I mean. The Christian monarchs and the Catholic church in the Middle-Ages, the Wahhabi clerics in KSA after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the Taliban, the Iranian Mullahs.

[GuestFellow]

*rolls eyes* You know exactly what I mean. The Christian monarchs and the Catholic church in the Middle-Ages, the Wahhabi clerics in KSA after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the Taliban, the Iranian Mullahs.

What about all of them?

[جوري]

I don't call a shari3a system a theocracy.. Theocracy the one in charge claims to be divinely inspired.. which to me is like George Bush claiming God is speaking to him or the pope amending the bible because he has the power through God.. a shura system isn't a theocracy yet governs by God's laws.. that is my understanding of the definition!

:w:

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Btw lol@ Blair, like anyone believes a word that comes out of his mouth.

He's slippery

This should be of interest

Tonys Crony

Why was Tony Blair, who usually expects a six figure sum for speaking engagements these days, so keen to give a rare, extended live interview to Sky News at the start of the Egyptian democracy protests at the end of January?

Speaking from Jerusalem in his capacity as Middle East do-gooder, he warned against rushing to oust President Hosni Mubarak and argued that it would be better to move to ‘a situation where the Egyptian government evolves and you have full fair and free elections at a certain point in time’.

The former British PM said was vital not to jeopardise peace in the region. But perhaps there was another reason he was reluctant to withdraw support for Mubarak – Blair took his Christmas hols in Egypt no fewer than 5 times between 2000 and 2005. On the first of those visits, Blair spent ‘six nights as a guest of the Egyptian government at two private government villas at the New Tower Hotel in Sharm-el-Sheikh’, according to the Commons register of members interests while on at least one subsequent trip Mubarak paid for flights.

Curiously, despite offering such hospitality the Egyptian leader did not rate a single mention in Blair’s recently published memoirs, A journey. However as the former PM showed in his interview with Sky he had not forgotten his old holiday host – even if his supportive comments did nothing to keep Mubarak in power.

Courtesy of P.E

[Dagless]

Anyways you made me go off-topic. You are already known as a snotty person on these boards. Ill spare you rational argumentation.

I think this is called irony.

*rolls eyes* You know exactly what I mean. The Christian monarchs and the Catholic church in the Middle-Ages, the Wahhabi clerics in KSA after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the Taliban, the Iranian Mullahs.

How about The Ottoman Empire? I wouldn't call over 600 years a failure! Btw the Vatican exists and is quite successful.

[titus]

I don't call a shari3a system a theocracy.. Theocracy the one in charge claims to be divinely inspired.. which to me is like George Bush claiming God is speaking to him or the pope amending the bible because he has the power through God.. a shura system isn't a theocracy yet governs by God's laws.. that is my understanding of the definition!

Sharia is, by definition, a theocracy, since the system is one believed to be ordained by God. Theocracy does not necessarily mean that the leaders are in direct contact with a deity, it can also mean a system of government proscribed by a deity, which is what Sharia is.

So while the Vatican City is considered a theocracy because the Pope is supposed to be directly inspired by God, so is Sharia a form of theocracy because the form of government is one that is inspired by God.

[جوري]

Sharia is, by definition, a theocracy, since the system is one believed to be ordained by God. Theocracy does not necessarily mean that the leaders are in direct contact with a deity, it can also mean a system of government proscribed by a deity, which is what Sharia is. So while the Vatican City is considered a theocracy because the Pope is supposed to be directly inspired by God, so is Sharia a form of theocracy because the form of government is one that is inspired by God.

shari3a شريعة by definition means n. law, code, legislation, dispensation, canon, religious law -- which doesn't equal to theocracy which by definition = A political unit governed by a deity (or by officials thought to be divinely guided).
No one is sitting there receiving transmissions from heaven.. Islamic law is actually very sound with nothing supernatural about it.. you don't for instance using the example of Vatican hold the belief that unbaptized children are doomed to hell and then all of a sudden receive divine revelation that no they'll go to heaven. It doesn't work out that way so please quit supplying your own definitions to matters you clearly don't understand!

all the best

[titus]

No one is sitting there receiving transmissions from heaven..

Divinely guided is not limited to direct contact with a deity, but also through other means, in the case of Islam that would be the Quran, Hadith, etc. If scholars are interpreting what God wants and implementing it as law then that is the basis of a theocracy - A state in which the laws are made by God.

[جوري]

Divinely guided is not limited to direct contact with a deity, but also through other means, in the case of Islam that would be the Quran, Hadith, etc. If scholars are interpreting what God wants and implementing it as law then that is the basis of a theocracy - A state in which the laws are made by God.

definitions are given, examples are clearly elucidated.. any further engagement I'll expect to see your doctorate from Al-Azhar!

all the best

[titus]

any further engagement I'll expect to see your doctorate from Al-Azhar!

I don't have my doctorate from Al-Azhar, but then again neither do you. The facts of my post still remain.

Sharia is a system supposedly instituted by God that is required to be implemented according to God's will as explained in the Quran and other divinely inspired sources. This makes it, by definition, a theocracy.

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

shari3a شريعة by definition means n. law, code, legislation, dispensation, canon, religious law -- which doesn't equal to theocracy which by definition = A political unit governed by a deity (or by officials thought to be divinely guided).
No one is sitting there receiving transmissions from heaven.. Islamic law is actually very sound with nothing supernatural about it.. you don't for instance using the example of Vatican hold the belief that unbaptized children are doomed to hell and then all of a sudden receive divine revelation that no they'll go to heaven. It doesn't work out that way so please quit supplying your own definitions to matters you clearly don't understand!

all the best

I don't have my doctorate from Al-Azhar, but then again neither do you. The facts of my post still remain.

Sharia is a system supposedly instituted by God that is required to be implemented according to God's will as explained in the Quran and other divinely inspired sources. This makes it, by definition, a theocracy.

I can see a difference. The Qur'an is considered to be divinely inspired sources but not the leader.

In some theocracies, the leader might be seen to have a close relationship with good, therefore, he is considered to be divine or something along those lines...

Here is the definition for theocracy...according to Microsoft Word:

theocracy [thi ókrəssi] (plural theocracies)

1. government by god: government by a god or by priests
2. community governed by god: a community governed by a god or priests


[Early 17th century. < Greek theokratia 'rule of the gods']


-theocrat [th ə krat], , n
-theocratic [th ə kráttik], , adj
-theocratical [th ə kráttik'l], , adj
-theocratically [th ə kráttikli], , adv

So the Sharia is not exactly a theocracy...

[جوري]

:sl:





I can see a difference. The Qur'an is considered to be divinely inspired sources but not the leader.

In some theocracies, the leader might be seen to have a close relationship with good, therefore, he is considered to be divine or something along those lines...

Here is the definition for theocracy...according to Microsoft Word:



So the Sharia is not exactly a theocracy...

Thank you.. it does get tedious after a while doesn't it? Some people are either unwilling or unable to learn, I don't know which but neither is a trait that one should accommodate!

:w:

[GuestFellow]

Thank you.. it does get tedious after a while doesn't it? Some people are either unwilling or unable to learn, I don't know which but neither is a trait that one should accommodate!

:w:

:sl:

Your welcome. Yes it does get tedious at times. I would say it is a combination of both traits...

[جوري]

I appreciate your help. Reading the English version of the site has been eye opening.

woops missed this post:

I am glad you've familiarized yourself with article 2 of the Egyptian constitution!


Constitutional Status of Islam(ic Law)




Article 2 affirms Islam as state religion; amended in 1980 to add recognition of the principles of Islamic jurisprudence as the principal source of legislation.
Court System
Shari�a courts integrated into national court system in 1956. Family law applied within National Courts by judges trained in shari�a (separate family chambers for Copts). Appeals go through regular courts, to Court of Appeals and then to Court of Cassation.


hopefully insha'Allah Islamic law would be a complete totality politics/ economics / social structure and not just the Judiciary system ..

all the best

[Zuzubu]

A TYRANT HAS FALLEN, A TYRANT WILL RISE.

Waiting for a Messiah. (ahh great, 10 posts to go till 50)

[جوري]

A TYRANT HAS FALLEN, A TYRANT WILL RISE.

rather a tyrant has fallen and an ummah will rise insha'Allah!

[Zuzubu]

the vale lily do you really believe in this?

A good leader is one who can unite the muslim world, and dosn't fear people who kiss american ass. I hope the new lead will be good, but I doubt it. Arabic leaders in my opinion don't have enough jihad and ambition anymore to do anything for Islam. Look at Israel - Jordan, Syria, etc. Jordan and Syria 2 great strong countries don't have enough ambition to do anything, and look what countries are the most beloved ones of arabia. The only country atm. with a little ambition is Iran. Turkey also, but Turkey is un-islamic.

Just my view, no need to get offended.

[جوري]

the vale lily do you really believe in this?

I am hopeful indeed!

all the best

[MustafaMc]

rather a tyrant has fallen and an ummah will rise insha'Allah!

Yes, God willing that will happen and the kaffir plans will be defeated.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Very good discussion about the current situation

[GuestFellow]

^ Salaam,

I like Noam Chomsky but he speaks too low...the volume is full bast too.

[Cabdullahi]

^ perfect voice to listen to before bedtime after your wife

put you to sleep straight away

[titus]

Some people are either unwilling or unable to learn,

Your welcome. Yes it does get tedious at times. I would say it is a combination of both traits...

Not to disagree totally with Microsoft on the definition of Theocracy, but you are limiting the definition a little too much.

Another more comprehensive definition of Theocracy is : A form of government which defers not to civil development of law, but to an interpretation of the will of a God as set out in religious scripture and authorities.

Certainly this describes Sharia?

After researching a bit more on the subject it seems that even some experts are divided on whether or not Sharia fits their definition, and their definitions range. Suffice it to say that Sharia is a form of theocracy depending on the scope of the definition being used. To some it is, to some it is not. It is a gray area and one in which there really is no right or wrong answer.

I was going to thank you, Guestfellow, for making your point in such a civil manner in your original post and not in the rude way that other people feel the need to make theirs, but then you made the comment I quoted above, in your reply to vale, and I found it to be a bit... uncivil.

As for those unwilling or unable to learn, I would suggest reading the proverb about throwing rocks while living in glass houses to anyone that would make that comment, or agree with it.

While I know that other people cannot hold themselves back from insulting anyone that doesn't share their viewpoint, I hold out hope that their lack of civility isn't contagious.

[Ramadhan]

Another more comprehensive definition of Theocracy is : A form of government which defers not to civil development of law, but to an interpretation of the will of a God as set out in religious scripture and authorities.

Is that your own take of theocracy?
Certainly we have to agree on common definition otherwise there is no use to have this kind of discussion because everyone would cling to their own takes of the term?
Here are the common definitions of theocracy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocracy
Theocracy is a form of government in which a state is understood as governed by immediate divine guidance especially a state ruled by clergy, or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided.[1]
From the perspective of the theocratic government, "God himself is recognized as the head" of the state, [2] hence the term theocracy, from the Greek θεοκρατια "rule of God", a term used by Josephus of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah.[3] Theocratic governments enact theonomic laws (rules).


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theocracy


Definition of THEOCRACY

1
: government of a state by immediate divine guidance or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided

2
: a state governed by a theocracy

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/theocracy

theocracy [θɪˈɒkrəsɪ]n pl -cies1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) government by a deity or by a priesthood
2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a community or political unit under such government

And that certainly does not describe Sharia. And any most established, common or formal definitions of theocracy that I can find do not describe sharia.

Your own new definition above is certainly not the same with any most common definitions of theocracy I can find, so I suggest you give it another name.
(unless of course, you agree that anyone can create their own made-up definition for a term out of established ones)

[Dagless]

Just to add the Oxford English Dictionary definition (since this is probably the most in tune with common usage):

theocracy(the|oc¦racy)
Pronunciation:/θɪˈɒkrəsi/
noun (plural theocracies)

* a system of government in which priests rule in the name of God or a god.

We also don't have priests or any kind of clergy in Islam.

[titus]

Naidamar,

Using your own link I find this statement:

An Islamic state is a state that has adopted Islam, specifically Sharia, as its foundations for political institutions, or laws, exclusively, and has implemented the islamic ruling system khilafah (Arabic خلافة), and is therefore a theocracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocracy

Certainly we have to agree on common definition otherwise there is no use to have this kind of discussion because everyone would cling to their own takes of the term?

Exactly the point I made earlier, in that there is no set standard definition. Therefore whether or not Sharia is a form of theocracy depends on which interpretation of the definition you go by.

Another source here says:

caliph (kăl`ĭf'), the spiritual head and temporal ruler of the Islamic state. In principle Islam is theocratic.

We also don't have priests or any kind of clergy in Islam.

Again we kind of get into semantics, but muftis and imams can be considered clergy. Would you agree that in any true Sharia government that Islamic scholars would be required to approve of laws to make sure that they follow the will of God as set down in the Quran and Sunnah? If so then they would, according to some, be fulfilling the same role as any clergy or priests.

Let me say one more time that I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this question as the definition of the word "theocracy" is a bit nebulous and varies from source to source, as are some of the terms used in the definition. I have found multiple sources that say it is, and some that say it is not.

[Ramadhan]

Using your own link I find this statement: An Islamic state is a state that has adopted Islam, specifically Sharia, as its foundations for political institutions, or laws, exclusively, and has implemented the islamic ruling system khilafah (Arabic خلافة), and is therefore a theocracy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocracy Certainly we have to agree on common definition otherwise there is no use to have this kind of discussion because everyone would cling to their own takes of the term? Exactly the point I made earlier, in that there is no set standard definition. Therefore whether or not Sharia is a form of theocracy depends on which interpretation of the definition you go by.

The wikipedia source actually expands the definition of theocracy, and by the same token, a large number of countries can be viewed as being theocratic, including most of european countries.

[Ramadhan]

Again we kind of get into semantics, but muftis and imams can be considered clergy.

muftis and imams are not ordained.
muftis and imams are not God's representatives.

Unless you want to change definition of Imams and muftis, as you have done with theocracy.

[titus]

By your very broad definition of theocracy, a large number of countries can be viewed as being theocratic, including most of european countries.

Unless you want to change definition of Imams and muftis, as you have done with theocracy.

Are you even reading my posts?

For one thing it is not my definition. These are definitions I have found and I have given the source for each of them. You try and make it sound like I made up my own definition.

For another there are multiple definitions that have been sourced. And for another I have already said that there is no way to come up with a definitive answer since there is no consensus on the definition of the word itself or of the other words used in the definition. Don't forget that it was one your sources that called Sharia a theocracy, so to insinuate that I am making these things up is a bit disingenuous don't you think?

muftis and imams are not ordained.
muftis and imams are not God's representatives.

True, but again you are getting into semantics. While not ordained, muftis and imams do perform similar duties as ordained clergy do in Christian churches.

[Ramadhan]

For one thing it is not my definition. These are definitions I have found and I have given the source for each of them.

Which source?

The wikipedia definition is actually in line with the other definitions, let me remind you again the definition given by wikipedia:
Theocracy is a form of government in which a state is understood as governed by immediate divine guidance especially a state ruled by clergy, or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided.[

Wikipedia violated its own definition to include Islamic states who implement sharia.

You try and make it sound like I made up my own definition.

In post #182 you wrote this:

Another more comprehensive definition of Theocracy is : A form of government which defers not to civil development of law, but to an interpretation of the will of a God as set out in religious scripture and authorities.

you did not cite or give any source for that definition, so it is safe to assume that is your own made-up definition of theocracy.

Don't forget that it was one your sources that called Sharia a theocracy, so to insinuate that I am making these things up is a bit disingenuous don't you think?

The wikipedia definition of theocracy certainly conform with other definitions of theocracy. I disagree that it include Islamic states as theocracy, because then it contradicts their own definition.

True, but again you are getting into semantics. While not ordained, muftis and imams do perform similar duties as ordained clergy do in Christian churches.

It's not just semantics. The difference is fundamentals. That would be like saying agnostics are the same as atheists.
I'm sure you'll disagree with that.

[GuestFellow]

I was going to thank you, Guestfellow, for making your point in such a civil manner in your original post and not in the rude way that other people feel the need to make theirs, but then you made the comment I quoted above, in your reply to vale, and I found it to be a bit... uncivil.

I was not talking about you...it was a general statement. The Vale Lilly said people...so I took it as a general statement.

Sorry if I upset you, I will make myself more clear.

[GuestFellow]

Not to disagree totally with Microsoft on the definition of Theocracy, but you are limiting the definition a little too much.

I did not limit the definition. :p:

Another more comprehensive definition of Theocracy is : A form of government which defers not to civil development of law, but to an interpretation of the will of a God as set out in religious scripture and authorities.

Certainly this describes Sharia?

You need to state your source.

There is still an important distinction between rulers that claim to be divine and scriptures that are considered to be blessed by God. You can have a combination of both in some cases.

[جوري]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

"الحمد لله الذي عزته قاهرة ساطية، وقدرته لا قاصرة ولا متباطية، أتلف قوم نوح فما أبقى منهم باقية، وأراح الريح على عادٍ فعادت لهم واطية، وأهلك ثموداً إذ أصبحت لعقر الناقة متعاطية، ورجم أمة كانت على فاحش الوطء متواطية، وأغرق فرعون فما ردت عنه داره الشاطيه، وخسف بقارون فإذا منازله العالية لاطيه، وهتك ستر بلعام فإذا في باطنه باطية، وبين سبب هلاكهم ففهم الأبله، (وَجَاء فِرعُونُ ومَن قَبلَهُ والمُؤتَفِكاتُ بِالخاطِئة)"[1]، والصلاة والسلام على خير داعية، وعلى آله وصحبه أهل العقيدة الصافية، والهمم العالية، وعلى أتباعهم من الطائفة المنصورة الظاهرة الباقية، أما بعد:
فإن "فرعون" الطاغية: اسم لم يغب عن أذهان الموحدين في هذا العصر، في كل مصر، قال العلامة ابن منظور رحمه الله: "الفرعنة: الكبر والتجبر..".اهـ [لسان العرب 7/80].

جازَ الأُلى مَلَكَتْ كَفّاكَ قدْرَهُمُ *** فعُرّفوا بكَ أنّ الكلبَ فوقَهُم

ساداتُ كل أُناسٍ من نُفوسِهِم *** وسادةُ المسلمينَ الأعبُدُ القَزَمُ[2]

ولكن هذا الاسم لحكام مصر –أرض الكنانة- ألصق، وبهم أليق، قال الإمام الزمخشري رحمه الله: "فرعون: علم لمن ملك العمالقة، كقيصر: لملك الروم، وكسرى: لملك الفرس. ولعتو الفراعنة اشتقوا: تفرعن فلان، إذا عتا وتجبر".اهـ [الكشاف 1/166].
ولعل المدعو "حسني مبارك" نزعه عرق! بل عروق! كما جاء في الحديث الضعيف عند البيهقي والديلمي وغيرهما: (إن العرق دساس).
فحكم القوانين الوضعية الوضيعة، كما جاء في المادة (1) من دستور مصر: "جمهورية مصر العربية دولة نظامها ديمقراطي".
وجاء في مادة (64): "سيادة القانون أساس الحكم في الدولة".
وجاء أيضاً في مادة (65): "تخضع الدولة للقانون".
وجاء أيضاً في مادة (73): "رئيس الدولة هو رئيس الجمهورية، ويسهر على تأكيد سيادة الشعب وعلى احترام الدستور وسيادة القانون".
وجاء أيضاً في مادة (79): "يؤدي الرئيس أمام مجلس الشعب قبل أن يباشر مهام منصبه اليمين الآتية: أقسم بالله العظيم أن أحافظ مخلصاً على النظام الجمهوري، وأن أحترم الدستور والقانون".
قال الشيخ محمد حامد الفقي رحمه الله معلقاً على قول ابن كثير: "ومثل هذا وشر منه من اتخذ من كلام الفرنجة قوانين يتحاكم إليها في الدماء والفروج والأموال، ويقدمها على ما علم وتبين له من كتاب الله وسنة رسوله صلى الله عليه وسلم فهو بلا شك كافر مرتد إذا أصر عليها ولم يرجع إلى الحكم بما أنزل الله ولا ينفعه أي اسم تسمى به[3] ولا أي عمل من ظواهر أعمال الصلاة والصيام ونحوها".اهـ [انظر كتاب فتح المجيد ص 373].
ولله در عبد الله بن طاهر لما ولاه المأمون نيابة بلاد الشام وديار مصر لما صار إليها، نظر إليها فاحتقرها وقال: قبح الله فرعون ما كان أخسه وأضعف همته حين ملك هذه القرية قال: "أنا ربكم الأعلى"! [البداية والنهاية/ سنة ثلاثين ومائتين].
وقبح الله "حسني مبارك" ما كان أخسه وأضعف همته حين ملك هذه القرية قال: "أنا المشرع الأعلى"!
جاء في مادة (86) من دستور مصر: "يتولى مجلس الشعب سلطة التشريع". ثم جاء في مادة: (101): "يدعو رئيس الجمهورية مجلس الشعب للانعقاد... ويفض رئيس الجمهورية دورته..".
وجاء في مادة (109): "لرئيس الجمهورية ولكل عضو من أعضاء مجلس الشعب حق اقتراح القوانين".
وجاء في مادة (112): "لرئيس الجمهورية حق إصدار القوانين أو الاعتراض عليها".
وما هذا بأول كفرياته؛ فلقد قام فرعون مصر حسني اللا مبارك بموالاة أعداء الله تعالى، ونصرتهم على أولياء الله تعالى، فسجن ونكل وعذب خيار الخيار، وعلى خطى جده فرعون سار، فالأول قال: (لَئِنِ اتَّخَذْتَ إِلَهًا غَيْرِي لَأَجْعَلَنَّكَ مِنَ الْمَسْجُونِينَ) [الشعراء: 29]. والثاني قال: "لَئِنِ اتَّخَذْتَ مشرعاً غَيْرِي لَأَجْعَلَنَّكَ مِنَ الْمَسْجُونِينَ"!
ولما رأى فرعون الأول أن بعض بني إسرائيل سيكون سبباً في هلاكه ، قام بقتل أبنائهم واستحياء نساءهم، قال الحافظ ابن كثير رحمه الله: "أن فرعون لعنه الله كان قد رأى رؤيا هالته؛ رأى ناراً خرجت من بيت المقدس فدخلت بيوت القبط ببلاد مصر إلا بيوت بني إسرائيل، مضمونها أن زوال ملكه يكون على يدي رجل من بني إسرائيل، ويقال بعد تحدث سماره عنده بأن بني إسرائيل يتوقعون خروج رجل منهم يكون لهم به دولة ورفعة.. فعند ذلك أمر فرعون لعنه الله بقتل كل ذكر يولد بعد ذلك من بني إسرائيل، وأن تترك البنات".اهـ [تفسير القرآن العظيم 1/116].
على العكس من فرعون الثاني، فلما رأى أن البعض قد يكون سبباً في هلاك بعض بني إسرائيل، قّتل أبناء المسلمين في غزة، ولم يستحي نسائهم، ففرض عليهم الجدار الفولاذي!
قال الشيخ المجدد محمد بن عبد الوهاب رحمه الله: "إذا أقروا أن هذا دين الله ورسوله، كيف لا يكفر من أنكره، وقتل من أمر به وحبسهم، كيف لا يكفر من أمر بحبسهم؟! كيف لا يكفر من جاء إلى أهل الشرك، يحثهم على لزوم دينهم وتزيينه لهم؟! ويحثهم على قتل الموحدين، وأخذ مالهم، كيف لا يكفر؟!".اهـ [الدرر السنية 10/8].

صارَ الخَصيّ إمامَ الآبقين بها *** فالحُرّ مستعبَدٌ والعبدُ معبُودُنامت نواطيرُ مصرٍ عن ثعَالبِها *** فقد بَشِمْنَ وما تَفنى العَناقيدُ[4]

وكما أن الله لما أهلك فرعون الأول نجّا بدنه لكي يكون لمن خلفه آية، كما قال تعالى: (فَالْيَوْمَ نُنَجِّيكَ بِبَدَنِكَ لِتَكُونَ لِمَنْ خَلْفَكَ آَيَةً وَإِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِنَ النَّاسِ عَنْ آَيَاتِنَا لَغَافِلُونَ) [يونس: 92].
فكذلك لما أسقط الله فرعون الثاني نجّا بدنه ولم يغتال، فهو أحقر من أن يقتل كما يقتل الرجال! ليكون لنفسه ولأقرانه ولمن خلفه آية! (وَإِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِنَ النَّاسِ عَنْ آَيَاتِنَا لَغَافِلُونَ) [يونس: 92].

ما يَقبِضُ الموتُ نفساً من نفوسِهِمُ *** إلا وفي يدهِ من نتنها عُودُ![5]

حتى صار حسني أضحوكة، وأخزاه الله بالذلة ونزع الشوكة، مصداقاً لقوله تعالى: (وَمَنْ أَظْلَمُ مِمَّنْ مَنَعَ مَسَاجِدَ اللَّهِ أَنْ يُذْكَرَ فِيهَا اسْمُهُ وَسَعَى فِي خَرَابِهَا أُولَئِكَ مَا كَانَ لَهُمْ أَنْ يَدْخُلُوهَا إِلَّا خَائِفِينَ لَهُمْ فِي الدُّنْيَا خِزْيٌ وَلَهُمْ فِي الْآَخِرَةِ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ) [البقرة: 114].
وذلك بفضل الله ثم بجهود عوام أهل الإسلام، الذين خرجوا يداً واحدة، يهتفون: "يا مبارك يا جبان، يا عميل الأمريكان".. "أزيحوا مبارك وضعوا خروف، ممكن يحكم بالمعروف!".. "لن نخاف لن نطاطي، نحن كرهنا الصوت الواطي".. ولسان حال كل واحدٍ منهم:

إلى أيّ حينٍ أنتَ في زيّ مُحرمِ *** وحتى متى في شِقوةٍ وإلى كم؟!وإلا تَمُتْ تحتَ السيوفِ مُكرماً *** تمت وتُقاسي الذلّ غير مُكرمِفثبْ واثقاً بالله وثبةَ ماجدٍ *** يرى الموتَ في الهيجا جَنى النّحل في الفَمِ[6]

ولا يُعكر عليهم –بإذن الله- خروج المتردية والنطيحة وما أكل الطاغوت؛ ممن ينادون بتحكيم الديمقراطية والحرية ونحوها من الكفريات.. إذ أن هؤلاء اتفقوا من عامة أهل الإسلام في شقٍ، وخالفوهم في شقٍ؛ وافقوهم في رد الظلم والعدوان من فرعون مصر، وخالفوهم في أن ذلك لا يتم إلا بتحكيم شريعة الله تعالى القائل: (وَمَنْ لَمْ يَحْكُمْ بِمَا أَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ فَأُولَئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ) [المائدة: 45]. والقائل: (وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ أَقَامُوا التَّوْرَاةَ وَالْإِنْجِيلَ وَمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْهِمْ مِنْ رَبِّهِمْ لَأَكَلُوا مِنْ فَوْقِهِمْ وَمِنْ تَحْتِ أَرْجُلِهِمْ مِنْهُمْ أُمَّةٌ مُقْتَصِدَةٌ وَكَثِيرٌ مِنْهُمْ سَاءَ مَا يَعْمَلُونَ) [المائدة: 66].
ولله در الإمام الشعبي رحمه الله حين قال: "نعم الشيء الغَوغاء؛ يسدون السّيل، ويُطفئون الحريق، ويشغبون على ولاة السوء".اهـ [حلية الأولياء 4/324، وسير أعلام النبلاء 4/312].
نسأل الله أن يهيأ لأهل مصر وجميع الأمصار؛ رجلاً ينقاد لكتاب الله ويقود به، وآخر دعوانا أن الحمد لله رب العالمين، وصلى الله وسلم على أشرف الأنبياء والمرسلين.

وكتب: أبو همام بكر بن عبد العزيز الأثري1432هـ - 2011ملهذا اليومِ بعدَ غدٍ أريجُ *** ونارٌ في العدُوّ لها أجيجُتبيتُ بها الحواضنُ آمناتٍ *** وتَسلمُ في مسالِكها

[titus]

you did not cite or give any source for that definition, so it is safe to assume that is your own made-up definition of theocracy.

Actually it's a bit rude to assert that I made it up. If I didn't supply a source all you have to do is ask.

Source

Source

Source

Wikipedia violated its own definition to include Islamic states who implement sharia.

Or possibly you interpreted the definition differently. Regardless, there will be no "winner" in this discussion as even scholars seem to disagree as to whether Sharia falls under the category of a theocracy.

Sorry if I upset you, I will make myself more clear.

Sorry I jumped to conclusions.

I did not limit the definition.

You need to state your source.

Good points.

There is still an important distinction between rulers that claim to be divine and scriptures that are considered to be blessed by God. You can have a combination of both in some cases.

The question, though, does the criteria for a theocracy change if the source of the divine inspiration is direct (i.e. leader says they speak with God who tells him the law needs to be X) or a written source (i.e. Islamic scholars say that according to hadith God wants to law to be X).

Which brings up another interesting question. Was Sharia a theocracy when Muhammad was alive, yet then not a theocracy after he died? Although that is probably a discussion for another thread.

Regardless, it will be interesting to see what form of government Egypt comes up with and how influenced it is by both Western democracy and Sharia.

[Argamemnon]

Allah Akbar bism illah bism illah

Masha'Allah... Israel was and still is terrified of these Egyptian soldiers (contrary to Zionist media propaganda about the invincible Israeli army, which can't even defeat Hizbullah). :w:

[جوري]

Masha'Allah... Israel was and still is terrified of these Egyptian soldiers (contrary to Zionist media propaganda about the invincible Israeli army, which can't even defeat Hizbullah).

Didn't they predict their own demise in 2012? insha'Allah victory will be ours soon and all the death, destruction, greed and oppression those Zionist pigs imposed upon the world will come down on their heads a million fold... but we've so many and I mean soooooooooo many wrinkles to smooth, with damage and corruption going back nearly 200 years .. I'd like a nice alliance with Turkey, and perhaps a few other middle eastern countries once they rid of their despots insha'Allah.. Jordan, Libya, Yemen.. I am hopeful.. so let's make du3a and our intentions sincere insha'Allah...

[Argamemnon]

Didn't they predict their own demise in 2012? insha'Allah victory will be ours soon and all the death, destruction, greed and oppression those Zionist pigs imposed upon the world will come down on their heads a million fold... but we've so many and I mean soooooooooo many wrinkles to smooth, with damage and corruption going back nearly 200 years .. I'd like a nice alliance with Turkey, and perhaps a few other middle eastern countries once they rid of their despots insha'Allah.. Jordan, Libya, Yemen.. I am hopeful.. so let's make du3a and our intentions sincere insha'Allah...

Insha'Allah, Amin.

[جوري]

Israel had spent 500 mil on their Bar Lev line and Egyptian soldiers took it down with water.. al7mdlillah.. I don't want peace with that colonial settler cockroach state, sadat is long dead and so is the obsequiousness that came from him and his ilk..



:w:

[Dagless]

Actually it's a bit rude to assert that I made it up. If I didn't supply a source all you have to do is ask.

Source

Source

Source

Why are all your sources legal dictionaries? Legal, medical, etc. dictionaries are often slightly different to what's in common use. Why don't you use Collins? Oxford? Chambers? Ones which are for language? The legal dictionaries you've used aren't even the popular ones, I mean what's mimi.hu?! and do you take it's definition over OED? :S

[جوري]

Why are all your sources legal dictionaries? Legal, medical, etc. dictionaries are often slightly different to what's in common use. Why don't you use Collins? Oxford? Chambers? Ones which are for language? The legal dictionaries you've used aren't even the popular ones, I mean what's mimi.hu?! and do you take it's definition over OED? :S

using one of his random 'source' this is the definition:



Duhaime.org
Law + Legal Information = Justice

Current Section: Legal Dictionary



Sharia Law definition:

Muslim or Islamic law, both civil and criminal justice as well as regulating individual conduct both personal and moral.


what do you know.. sometimes I wonder if he reads his own sources.. but it seems he is more interested in hammering his opinion than the facts.. was it him or that fellow Lynx that provided us with a site before that went against the point he was trying to prove? they really ought to click on the links and read them fully before using it for reference..

[GuestFellow]

Source

Source

Source

I suppose it depends on who writes the definition. I see nothing wrong using a legal dictionary. I agree, there is no wrong or right answer.

The question, though, does the criteria for a theocracy change if the source of the divine inspiration is direct (i.e. leader says they speak with God who tells him the law needs to be X) or a written source (i.e. Islamic scholars say that according to hadith God wants to law to be X).

I think the criteria will remain the same. Someone who claims to have divine connection with God can say whatever he wants and it will become law, as long as the public believe him.

Islamic scholars are restricted and must develop laws from written sources. For example, scholars may turn to Hadiths and verses from the Qur'an to develop new laws on technology or medical advancements...

Which brings up another interesting question. Was Sharia a theocracy when Muhammad was alive, yet then not a theocracy after he died? Although that is probably a discussion for another thread.

Not sure...

Regardless, it will be interesting to see what form of government Egypt comes up with and how influenced it is by both Western democracy and Sharia.

Probably a mixture. I doubt the Caliphate will be established. I think some Egyptians want something new. Some people feel like this when they want change and want to experience something different. However, I'm purely speculating and I could be wrong.

I do think the introduction of the Sharia should be introduced step by step, for stability and for people to cope with changes.

[titus]

I mean what's mimi.hu?! and do you take it's definition over OED? :S

Let me beat this dead horse some more:

I stated that there is no set definition for "theocracy" and gave alternate definitions that people have. This was to show that this debate is pointless because the definition of theocracy is different to different people. You insinuated that I had made up the definition I gave so I gave you multiple sources to show that was not true.

I don't take any definition of the word over any other definition of the word. The fact that so many different sources give slightly different definitions only goes to prove my point, which is that to keep arguing whether or not Sharia is a theocracy is pointless because nobody can agree as to what exactly the definition of the word is.

was it him or that fellow Lynx that provided us with a site before that went against the point he was trying to prove?

Maybe you are referring to Dagless who provided a link to show that Sharia wasn't a theocracy when in the link he provided it explicitly stated that it was?

[Pygoscelis]

THe core of it is that people will have to decide if they want to have their own voices, with their representation running the show, by the people and for the people (words that are too often empty rhetoric in false democracies) or subjugate themselves to a new dictatorial regime. Theocracy has a tendency to push towards the latter, given the authoritarian nature of monotheistic religion. Only time will tell which way they go.

[Dagless]

You insinuated that I had made up the definition I gave so I gave you multiple sources to show that was not true.

When did I do this? I don't remember it happening and it's not in the thread.

Maybe you are referring to Dagless who provided a link to show that Sharia wasn't a theocracy when in the link he provided it explicitly stated that it was?

Er... I haven't provided any new links in this thread. Good to see you're on top of things though.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

David Cameron is touring the Middle East at the moment, perhaps he's on a 'mission' to advocate the joys of 'democracy' and 'freedom'.

However there are many who beg to differ

Amusing but pertinent

[جوري]

Maybe you are referring to Dagless who provided a link to show that Sharia wasn't a theocracy when in the link he provided it explicitly stated that it was?

No I am referring to the one who alleged that prisons aren't filled with atheists yet provided a statistic proving just that (2nd largest to people who believe their sins are pre-paid) and then 538783753 trying to undo that link!

[جوري]

Only time will tell which way they go.

khilafah will be the only place we head insha'Allah!

all the best

[Ramadhan]

David Cameron is touring the Middle East at the moment, perhaps he's on a 'mission' to advocate the joys of 'democracy' and 'freedom'.

This is quite a joke.

The leader of a country who used to invade and colonise the whole region and split them up and gave parts to european jews and who is in Iraq as part of occupying forces is now advocating "freedom" to the same people???

[titus]

Er... I haven't provided any new links in this thread. Good to see you're on top of things though.

Yup, I deserve that. Sorry Dagless.

It was Naidamar that posted a link actually contradicting his own statement and who also accused me of making up definitions, which is why I posted the sources.

No I am referring to the one who alleged that prisons aren't filled with atheists yet provided a statistic proving just that (2nd largest to people who believe their sins are pre-paid) and then 538783753 trying to undo that link!

Then I would research who that was, because it certainly was not me.

[GuestFellow]

Salaam

David Cameron is touring the Middle East at the moment, perhaps he's on a 'mission' to advocate the joys of 'democracy' and 'freedom'.

However there are many who beg to differ

Amusing but pertinent

:sl:

What on Earth is this idiot doing traveling around the world and talking about democracy and freedom? Britain has its own problems and created enough problems for the world.

I just wish someone could punch his big fat mouth!

[جوري]

Then I would research who that was, because it certainly was not me.

I always confuse you with lynx.. as sofia said once.. 'yeah--Not Stan, the other one'

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Previous thread on this whole topic

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...-effect-6.html

Found another entertaining but informative video on the revolution. Speech was said before Mubarak fell.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Egypt's Suzanne Mubarak to hand over assets to state

The wife of ousted Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has agreed to hand over assets to the state after being held in a corruption probe, officials say.

They say Suzanne Mubarak will turn over a villa in a Cairo suburb and some $3m (£1.9m) held in bank accounts in Egypt. The Mubaraks face allegations of illegally acquiring wealth whilst in power for 30 years. Mr Mubarak - who was ousted in February - is also accused of involvement in the killings of anti-regime protesters.

'Idea of revenge'

Mrs Mubarak, aged 70, pledged on Monday to hand over the money and the villa.

By relinquishing her claims, she would be benefiting from articles in Egyptian law which allow those accused of making illegal gains to give them up in exchange for dropping the investigation, lawyer Nasser Amin was quoted as saying by the Associated Press news agency.

"The decision may not be accepted by society, who after a revolution, side with the idea of revenge. But from the legal point of view, this is in line," the lawyer added. The Mubaraks are currently under detention in hospital the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh.

The former first lady is recovering after falling ill when told she was being detained. Initial reports said she suffered a heart attack but some officials say it was a "panic attack". Reformers in Egypt believe the Mubarak family accumulated a fortune worth tens of billions of dollars while in power.

Mr Mubarak, 83, has denied this, and little hard evidence has yet been made public. However their bank accounts in Cairo and in Switzerland have been frozen. Many Egyptians also believe the former first lady was instrumental in pushing for her younger son, Gamal, to succeed his father - one of the grievances that mobilised opposition protesters.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13420327

Who exactly is Suzzane Mubarak? ^o)

[جوري]

When people were overthrown back in the day people offed with their heads.. these turds aren't only being handled with kid gloves, but allowed to operate all their underground counter revolutions so that Egypt is to remain exactly as it was for decades subdued, indebted, ignorant. Their fortune is in the billions and no one will see it, the few millions they're willing to admit to are but the tip of the iceberg yet still they enable Israeli spy networks, Americans dressing as 'salafis' bombing here and there so that Egypt becomes another Algeria or Libya and they hauled Al'Arabi the only one who made some semblance of sense to the Arab league for some ineffectual honorary position. Won't the people of Egypt wake up? or is it always about an apt and marrying your children off?
Jihad has been decreed upon us though we may hate it... we won't see any khyer with this khinoo3 and complacency.. Hasbona Allah wa'ni3ma alwakeel.. I totally give up on justice or change..

:w:

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

Egypt's ousted President Hosni Mubarak and his two sons are to be tried over the deaths of anti-government protesters, judicial officials say.

[Darth Ultor]

I guess he'll be hanging around for a while.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Pro-reform protesters pack Cairo square

Thousands return to Tahrir Square for "day of anger" demonstrations, pressing military rulers for speedier reforms.

Thousands of protesters have returned to downtown Cairo's Tahrir Square for what they called a "second revolution", calling for Egypt's military rulers to speed up the pace of democratic reforms in a country that is still charting its political future. Protesters streamed into Tahrir Square - the symbolic heart of protests that toppled Hosni Mubarak on February 11 - carrying banners reading "Egyptian revolution is not over". Youth groups that had helped to launch the uprising against Mubarak have dubbed Friday "the second day of anger".

In a Facebook call, the Coalition of the Revolution Youth, which consists of several movements behind the Egyptian uprising, urged protesters to rally for "an end to political corruption." A large banner hung over the flag-waving crowd, demanding a new constitution "now and not later". But Muslim Brotherhood, the country's best organised opposition movement, said on Thursday it was "very concerned" by Friday's protest.

The group, that decided not to participate in the demonstrations, said the revolution had achieved many of its goals, including not only the ouster of Mubarak, but also his referral to trial along with his sons and associates.

People's anger

The call to protest can therefore "only mean that the anger is directed at the people themselves or at the army," said the group, urging protesters not to divide the people and the military. Al Jazeera's Ayman Mohyeldin, reporting from Cairo, said that the Muslim Brotherhood had given several reasons why they did not believe this was an appropriate time for them to participate, even though they did support the right of public protests and peaceful demonstration.

"The Brotherhood disagrees with the protesters' demands that the constitution be rewritten prior to the elections," he said. "While some of the protesters are calling for a civilian council to be sitting alongside the military council currently ruling the country, the Brotherhood disagrees with this." "They say there is already a national referendum that was held several weeks ago in which an overwhelming majority of people agreed to having a constitution amended by an incoming parliament that would be elected in September. They don't want to see that overruled by the military leadership of this country."

Military to stay away

Also, the military said in a statement on Thursday that it would steer clear of protests in an effort to avert any unrest. It warned in a statement on its Facebook page of "suspicious elements who will try to pit the military against the people," and said it "decided to have completely no presence in areas of protests to avert these dangers". Mohyeldin said there there was a bit of anxiety at the military's absence at today's protests at Tahrir Square.

"It has triggered an alarm bells with some others protesters, as military was giving green light for people to potentially disrupt the peaceful protests. There were others who felt it was a good step on the military to avoid any friction between the military and protesters as there has been some tension as of late," Mohyeldin said.

Mohamed ElBaradei, the Egyptian Nobel Peace Prize winner and a reform leader, said that he was "seriously concerned about the absence of security forces".

Activists arrested

The activists have called for the nationwide protests against what they see as foot-dragging on reforms and trials of former officials for graft and abuse of power. Egyptians fearing social chaos accepted the army's role in keeping order after Mubarak's overthrow, but many now bemoan a worsening security situation and delays in bringing former officials accused of corruption to trial. Activists say the military has tried hundreds of civilians in military courts and hindered peaceful protests by arresting activists and holding them without charge.

Authorities detained four activists on Thursday for putting up posters calling for the protests. The four, including film director Aida al-Kashef, were held by military police in Cairo. A military source said they were released after several hours in detention. Protesters want the acceleration of trials of former regime figures and their removal from top jobs in police, universities and other public institutions.

They are also calling for a return of security forces to the streets, amid weeks of insecurity and sectarian clashes blamed on remnants of the old regime.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/mi...313435236.html

[Darth Ultor]

You know what, they should just put him in jail. Let him become someone's *****.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Another update on the situation in Egypt. Seems the secularists are going to make their move.

Egypt activists threaten ‘million-strong’ protest to stop Islamists winning power

Secularist alliance says transition proposal favours Muslim Brotherhood – but religious groups reject ‘constitution-first’ plan

Egyptian activists have threatened to bring mass pro-democracy protests back to Cairo, with a “million-strong” occupation of Tahrir Square planned for 8 July unless the ruling army generals abandon their current “roadmap” to democracy.

In an increasingly rancorous debate, which has developed into a proxy war between the nation’s fledgling Islamist and secular political forces, 40 different liberal and leftist movements have joined forces to demand that plans to hold elections in September are dropped.

Campaigners fear the existing post-Mubarak transition programme – which would see September’s ballot held under an amended version of Egypt’s existing constitution and then allow members of parliament to oversee the writing of a new constitution – may cede permanent power to the Muslim Brotherhood and other religious groups, who are expected to dominate the poll.

Islamists have reacted furiously to the “constitution-first” campaign, arguing that it contradicts the results of a nationwide referendum held in March, in which 77% of the country backed a set of constitutional amendments and endorsed the idea that parliamentary elections should precede any new constitution.

“Egyptians will not remain silent on attempts by an irrelevant elite to impose a liberal secular constitution on the people,” said the new Salafist party Al-Nour in a statement.

Egypt’s interim prime minister, Essam Sharaf, has stoked controversy by suggesting elections could be delayed to allow the nation’s “political landscape” to take shape – a key demand of many secular revolutionary groups who believe they have not had the time to develop their organisational capacity and are therefore likely to lose out in September to the Muslim Brotherhood, who are already a well-established presence in most towns and cities across the country.

But Sharaf – who took office 100 days ago this week and famously marked his appointment by entering Tahrir Square and announcing to protesters “I draw my legitimacy from you” – has faced a storm of criticism for his comments.

Any postponement of elections would contradict the official line held by Egypt’s Supreme Council of Armed Forces, the country’s de facto rulers until a civilian government is ready to take over. The prime minister later said his comments had been “misunderstood” and that the timetable for elections remained the same.

Disagreements over the timing and process of writing a constitution have become the main point of division within Egypt’s febrile political landscape, which after decades of one-party rule is now being rapidly populated by a wide range of new forces.

“This is not just a debate about short-term political gain,” said Egyptian journalist Ashraf Khalil, who has followed the issue closely. “Whoever wins the parliamentary elections is going to play a major role in writing the new constitution and they are therefore going to play a major role in shaping the political foundations of the new Egypt.”

Concerns are mounting that a raft of new parties, including many claiming to represent the “revolutionary youth” that helped to overthrow Mubarak earlier this year, have not even completed the formal party registration process yet and will be in no position to mount a successful appeal for votes by September.

“The Brotherhood is clearly ready for elections now – it’s been ready for 10 years – whereas the newer secular parties who could not participate in the political process under Mubarak are not,” added Khalil.

“I’m not expecting an outright Brotherhood victory or the creation of some kind of Iranian theocratic state, but clearly if the new parliament does not have adequate representation from the movements that played such a key part in sparking the revolution then that’s a cause for concern.”

The Brotherhood’s new political vehicle, the Freedom and Justice party, has vowed not to contest more than 50% of parliamentary seats and will not run a candidate for president in an effort to assuage concerns at home and abroad over a potential Islamist takeover of the state.

That has not been enough to reassure some critics, including a “national consensus conference” led by the deputy prime minister, which has called for the inclusion of an article in the new constitution that would task the military with “protecting” Egypt’s civil institutions – a thinly-veiled warning against any potential attempt by an Islamist-controlled parliament to push for a religious state.

In an effort to secure a compromise, presidential hopeful Mohamed ElBaradei has proposed that elections precede the new constitution as originally planned, but that a new bill of rights should be drawn up beforehand that would supersede the constitution. This bill of rights would acknowledge the importance of Islamic sharia law in guiding legislation but also affirm Egypt’s status as a civil state.

ElBaradei’s plan has won some support, though questions remain about how such a legal document would be formulated.

“We have to search for a compromise,” said political analyst Diaa Rashwan.

“We have already had a bitterly fought row over the constitutional amendments and the last thing we need now is to have another major battle between political forces that could destabilise things further.”

Some activists though have labelled the entire row an unnecessary distraction from the more important job of formulating new policies that tackle Egypt’s many socio-economic problems and improve the condition of over 30 million Egyptians still living below the poverty line. “This is a waste of time,” tweeted the pro-change campaigner and former Google executive Wael Ghonim, who argued that the constitution debate had descended into an ideological point-scoring contest in which neither side was willing to back down.

http://www.hizb.org.uk/news-watch/eg...-winning-power