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View Full Version : 'US drone attacks in Pakistan must stop', 'victim' says



GuestFellow
02-23-2011, 12:56 AM
:sl:

One of the ways the US is trying to weed out militants in the lawless border regions between Afghanistan and Pakistan is by using pilotless planes to bomb targets.

"The US government defends drone attacks - saying they're legal and 'an act of self defence'. It claims when dealing with what it calls 'terrorist organisations' like Al Qaeda and the Taliban - these unmanned strikes are necessary because they eliminate risk. It argues US forces can't be killed if they're not involved in person so it says it's a way of reducing overall US casualties.
The US government and the military are bunch of cowards.
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جوري
02-23-2011, 03:40 AM
self defense? :lol: flying over sovereign nations and bombing them is self-defense? It really is the beginning of the end for America and Israel.. whenever evil reigns supreme and people can't distinguish right from wrong usually spells their demise!
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Trumble
02-23-2011, 05:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
The US government and the military are bunch of cowards.
Cowardice has nothing to do with it. No competent military officer risks the lives of his men when it is not necessary to get the job done. Whether that particular job should be getting done is, of course, a different question.
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LavaDog
02-23-2011, 06:38 AM
it used to be worse. we would lay parts on the roadside that could be used to make bombs is iraq. they told us to take out anybody that picked the stuff up, because only a terrorist would want to pick up copper wire and spark plugs.
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Ramadhan
02-23-2011, 07:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by
it used to be worse. we would lay parts on the roadside that could be used to make bombs is iraq. they told us to take out anybody that picked the stuff up, because only a terrorist would want to pick up copper wire and spark plugs.

Were you in military service?

Alhamdulillah that Allah has guided you to the straight path.
Reply

GuestFellow
02-23-2011, 10:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
Cowardice has nothing to do with it. No competent military officer risks the lives of his men when it is not necessary to get the job done. Whether that particular job should be getting done is, of course, a different question.
Technically your right. I'm was merely expressing my disgust with the US government and military. I think the course of action the military has taken shows that the lives of the soldiers are considered to be more important than civilian life.
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Zuzubu
02-23-2011, 11:06 AM
Pakistan and Afghanistan both has bad government so obviously easy targets.
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~Raindrop~
02-23-2011, 11:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
Technically your right. I'm was merely expressing my disgust with the US government and military. I think the course of action the military has taken shows that the lives of the soldiers are considered to be more important than civilian life.
Agreed. They might as well stick up huge banners declaring that civilian life has no value whatsoever, so anyone's free to take a potshot whenever they fancy. The people in those areas are some of the poorest in the country, with most of them living in mud houses -if you can call them them that- and not even having enough food to eat. Even the military thinks nothing of landing their helicopters in their crops and destroying their only means of survival. Anyone who complains get thrown into jail.

Ahh...but I forget. They spend their spare time sticking wires together or whatever it is that's done making bombs whilst their children are crying to be fed next to them.

Makes perfect sense.
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tigerkhan
02-23-2011, 01:05 PM
i had visited all this area and i have so many friends in university from those area. what makes me sad, these simple ppl were used by ISI and America the past to destroy Russia and when they got bit strength, America bcm their enemy and now they are labeled as terrorist.
from all this i think what lesson we need to learn is,
1. America or any non muslim sate can never be friend to muslims.
2. love for money and this dunia is the most wrost thing in this world.
3. islam can never be spread and established by force.
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titus
02-23-2011, 03:31 PM
1. America or any non muslim sate can never be friend to muslims.
How exactly do you come to this conclusion?

Just because some non-Muslim countries and some Muslim countries are currently in some form of conflict should not make anyone leap to the conclusion that Muslim and non-Muslim countries can never be friends.
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GuestFellow
02-23-2011, 04:22 PM
^ I'm sure countries can be "friends" but I remember I read somewhere that a Muslim country cannot accept military aid from any non-Muslim country...strange because Saudi Arabia seeks security from the US.
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tigerkhan
02-24-2011, 01:59 PM
^ in addition keep in mind in battle of Uhad, prophet PBUH when heard that enemies were coming back to attack agian, He PBUH said, all who were in war should be ready again and no1 other than those were already in war would join them. so its clear muslims never depend on numbers of soldiers, how much they are equipped with arms and technology. its matter to show ALLAH SWT we are ready to give life for u. and ALLAH SWT will help them on this spirit and those who have help from ALLAH SWT can never lose.
so muslims don't need others, and 2ndly Muslims fight is against Kufer and Shirk,not to conquer land or to rule ppl. so u understand Kufr can not be removed if they take help of kufr and have friendship with them.
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سيف الله
02-24-2011, 02:20 PM
Salaam

format_quote Originally Posted by titus
How exactly do you come to this conclusion?

Just because some non-Muslim countries and some Muslim countries are currently in some form of conflict should not make anyone leap to the conclusion that Muslim and non-Muslim countries can never be friends.
Please,

US governments have been the leading force in blocking Musim self determination in many countries for decades (in fact post 1945) and it continues to this day.

For example, why have Iran not had diplomatic relations with the US for 30+ years now, for good reason, they value their independence.

So you shouldnt be surprised at the reaction.

However the future might change, but until then. . . . . . .
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titus
02-24-2011, 02:29 PM
The post didn't say anything about not being friends with the USA excusively, it included all non-Muslim nations. Tigerkahn said:

1. America or any non muslim sate can never be friend to muslims.

Do Muslims here really believe that a Muslim nation should not be friendly any non-Muslim nation?
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سيف الله
02-24-2011, 02:43 PM
Salaam

If the friendship should benifet the peoples of (both) those nations, then sure, I dont see a problem with that.
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tigerkhan
02-24-2011, 02:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by
Do Muslims here really believe that a Muslim nation should not be friendly any non-Muslim nation?
if u just fight for the sake of allah swt and deen islam, then how a person can be ur friend who also dont believe ALLAH SWT and islam.
yes if u are talking of our current Muslim rulers, yes they are making friendship with non-muslims countries but its not for the sake of islam, its just for theirs worldly matters. they are dying for this dunia and no interest in islam and hereafter.
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Argamemnon
02-25-2011, 12:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
Cowardice has nothing to do with it. No competent military officer risks the lives of his men when it is not necessary to get the job done. Whether that particular job should be getting done is, of course, a different question.
Please stop this intellectual nonsense, it's annoying. Not to mention totally hollow!
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Argamemnon
02-25-2011, 12:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by tigerkhan
i think what lesson we need to learn is,
1. America or any non muslim sate can never be friend to muslims.
2. love for money and this dunia is the most wrost thing in this world.
3. islam can never be spread and established by force.
In fact, all three points are clearly mentioned in the Qur'an, but most Muslims don't read it. They prefer to hide their Qur'an somewhere in the house and treat it as a souvenir...

As for point 1: we can have 'friendly' relations with other countries (obviously) but we are not allowed to take them as protectors, which we do.

:w:
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titus
02-25-2011, 01:25 PM
if u just fight for the sake of allah swt and deen islam, then how a person can be ur friend who also dont believe ALLAH SWT and islam.
If I am not fighting against you then why should we not be friendly? Unless you happen to consider all non-Muslims your enemy.

You will also find it hard to follow your philosophy while at the same time trying to create an Islamic state. Why would any sane non-Muslim nation want a neighbor who states that they will have unfriendly relations with your nation because you don't follow their religion?

As for point 1: we can have 'friendly' relations with other countries (obviously) but we are not allowed to take them as protectors, which we do.
It seems tigerkahn disagrees.

Cowardice has nothing to do with it. No competent military officer risks the lives of his men when it is not necessary to get the job done. Whether that particular job should be getting done is, of course, a different question.
Please stop this intellectual nonsense, it's annoying. Not to mention totally hollow!
It's just another evolution in warfare in which those that are behind call cowardice. It happened when men started using guns, then when they started using planes, and now when they start using unmanned drones.

Are unmanned drones any less honorable than roadside bombs?
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Argamemnon
02-25-2011, 06:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
The post didn't say anything about not being friends with the USA excusively, it included all non-Muslim nations. Tigerkahn said:

1. America or any non muslim sate can never be friend to muslims.

Do Muslims here really believe that a Muslim nation should not be friendly any non-Muslim nation?
What certain Muslims think is rather insignificant and your perception of Islam should not be influenced by what some of them say or do. There are many ignorant Muslims as there are many ignorant Americans and westerners. Obviously Muslim countries can and should have good relations with everybody else, but we aren't allowed to rely on them as protectors or allies. If I were the prime minister of Turkey (and if I had the opportunity to make important decisions), I would withdraw from NATO for example. I would still strive to improve relations with all non-Muslim nations as long as they are not hostile and aggressive against Muslims. This would be the proper Islamic attitude; Muslims are not monsters.. of course we can and will have friendly relations with the rest of the world, how could you think otherwise? We are all humans!
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Argamemnon
02-25-2011, 06:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
Are unmanned drones any less honorable than roadside bombs?
I never said they were, though I can imagine how desperate people can become when the enemy has overwhelming firepower.

How would you fight against the U.S. or Israel if you were Iraqi or Palestinian and living under a brutal occupation?
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GuestFellow
02-25-2011, 07:00 PM
I doubt countries are "friends" to begin with. Countries maintain good relations with other countries for support.
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tigerkhan
02-26-2011, 04:57 AM
@bro Titus
dear actually u are bit confusing bcz of current situation of muslims countries, but i told u what they are practicing is not according to islam. if u want to learn what exactly islam teach us in this regard, then i request u to see "Hayat-E-Suhaba" English addition and there will a chapter about this.
Suhaba RA fight with others and its fact they always offers 3 options to enemies first.
1. came to islam, u will be our brothers, and we have no interest with ur money wealth and goveronment.
2. if u dont accept islam, then give gizya (its like tax). u will be like our state, u can practice ur religion but u will not not stop us to spread our religion of peace and truth.
3. if u dont accept any of above then there is option for fight. and if u lose all ur money will be our, ur girls will be slave girls.

so if u see these that will clear the purpose of fight. its not that we want our ruling all over the world. but we want ppl should came to islam so that they will be saved from forever hellfire. fight is in the case where there is no other way and the ppl dont let to spread islam. and ALLAH SWT says fight with non-believers until Islam will dominate/spread all over the world.

i am so sorry . english is not my first language. but i strongly recommend u to see above mentioned book for detail.
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tigerkhan
02-26-2011, 05:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Argamemnon
What certain Muslims think is rather insignificant and your perception of Islam should not be influenced by what some of them say or do. There are many ignorant Muslims as there are many ignorant Americans and westerners. Obviously Muslim countries can and should have good relations with everybody else, but we aren't allowed to rely on them as protectors or allies. If I were the prime minister of Turkey (and if I had the opportunity to make important decisions), I would withdraw from NATO for example. I would still strive to improve relations with all non-Muslim nations as long as they are not hostile and aggressive against Muslims. This would be the proper Islamic attitude; Muslims are not monsters.. of course we can and will have friendly relations with the rest of the world, how could you think otherwise? We are all humans!
brother with due apology; islam is religion form ALLAH SWT and we cant tend or change it according to our desires, our understandings or current situations. so number1, there is no concept of "islamic countries" is islam , but Khlifat. i think we should interpret islam in the same way it is given to us. we should not include our personal opinion into its interpretion.
rest how we can establish khilaffat and all this stuff. there are answers to all these questions and ppl are working for it. and insh as mentioned in hadith (like Mahdi AS) we will see it with our eyes.
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سيف الله
03-18-2011, 05:42 PM
Salaam

Pakistan: Calls for revenge after US drones kill 40

Tribal leaders in the Pakistani region of North Waziristan have vowed revenge against the US after drones killed more than 40 people near the Afghan border.

"We are a people who wait 100 years to exact revenge. We never forgive our enemy," the elders said in a statement. Thursday's attack has caused fury - most of the dead were tribal elders and police attending an open-air meeting. Observers say anger over the botched drone raid may help Pakistan delay an assault on the Taliban in Waziristan. The Pakistani military has so far resisted US pressure for such an assault. It is already fighting militants in a number of other parts of the country's north-west.

The BBC's M Ilyas Khan in Islamabad says Thursday's casualties will also add to pressure from Islamabad on the US to scale back drone strikes which regularly target Waziristan. The area is an al-Qaeda and Taliban stronghold and a launch pad for frequent attacks on US-led forces in Afghanistan. But the strikes are hugely unpopular in Pakistan. The latest one comes at a time of rising tension after the CIA contractor Raymond Davis was acquitted of murdering two men in Lahore.

'Just a jirga'

Thursday's drone strike is thought to have killed more civilians than any other such attack since 2006. Officials say two drones were involved. One missile was fired at a car carrying suspected militants. Three more missiles were then fired at the moving vehicle, hitting it and the nearby tribal meeting, or jirga. At least four militants in the vehicles were killed, local officials said. Most of the rest who died were elders, local traders and members of the tribal police.

"The world should try and find out how many of the 40-odd people killed in the drone attack were members of al-Qaeda," the elders said in their statement following the attack near North Waziristan's regional capital, Miranshah.
"It was just a jirga being held under local customs in which the prominent elders of Datta Khel sub-division, and common people were participating to resolve a dispute.

"But the Americans did not spare our elders even.

One of the elders, Malik Faridullah Wazir Khan, said he reached the scene 30 minutes after the missiles hit - four of his relatives were killed.

"The area was completely covered in blood," he told the BBC.
"There were no bodies, only body parts - hands, legs and eyes scattered around. I could not recognise anyone. People carried away the body parts in shopping bags and clothing or with bits of wood, whatever they could find."

He said 44 people died at the scene, including 13 children - one as young as seven.

On Thursday, Pakistan's army chief condemned the raid by US unmanned drones in unusually strong terms, calling it "intolerable... and in complete violation of human rights". The Pakistani military often makes statements regretting the loss of life in such incidents, but rarely criticises the attacks themselves. Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, however, said such "acts of violence" make it harder to fight terrorism.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12784675
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yas2010
03-18-2011, 07:11 PM
The Pakistani govt and military should be protecting there people rather than allowing such awful atrocities to occur on their soil.
Yet we all know how inept they are, and they rather attack and kill their own people as we have seen in the SWAT valley.
Zardari, Sharif et al truly disgust me.
Reply

سيف الله
04-22-2011, 12:38 PM
Salaam

It continues. . . .

US drone strike kills 25 in Pakistan

At least 25 people have been killed in yet another unauthorized US drone attack on the tribal village of Miranshah in northwestern Pakistan.

Officials reported that the non-UN-sanctioned attack by a US drone took place at 4:30 a.m. (2030 GMT) Friday, a Press TV correspondent reported. The drone fired six missiles at a house destroying it completely. The death toll may rise as rescue operation is underway to get people from the collapsed building.

The US drone continued flying over the area after the attack, creating panic among the local residents. Miranshah attack raised the number of US drone strikes in North Waziristan Agency to 21 in 2011. Reports indicate that the unmanned drone strikes in Pakistan's northwest tribal belt have claimed the lives of more than 1,180 people in 2010 alone.

Washington has at times claimed it has an agreement with Islamabad on launching such attacks, but Pakistani authorities say there has never been such a deal and that they view the airstrikes as repeated violations of the country's sovereignty. Moreover, Pakistani lawmakers have strongly criticized the US drone strikes and urged the government "to review its foreign policy and adopt a strict stance to stop CIA attacks inside Pakistan."

Khawaja Saad Rafiq, the leader of major Pakistani party Muslim League Nawaz, has blamed the hike in the acts of terrorism in Pakistan on the ongoing CIA drone attacks. The CIA's unauthorized drone strikes in Pakistan's northwest tribal belt claimed the lives of more than 1,180 people in 2010 alone, reports say.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/176076.html

BBC version of same event

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13167425

'US to give Pakistan 85 drones'

The United States will supply Pakistan with 85 small surveillance drones, amid rising tensions between the two countries over aerial attacks that have left hundreds dead. The plan, announced by a US official speaking on condition of anonymity, is part of the US military aid to Pakistan in 2011 which is estimated to be nearly USD 3 billion, a Press TV correspondent reported on Friday.

The short-range surveillance aircraft called “Raven,” is produced by the US-based AeroVironment Company. It weighs 1.9 kg (4.2 lb) and is launched by hand and powered by an electric motor. Raven drones can be either remotely controlled or fly autonomous missions using GPS. They can provide day or night aerial intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance.

Another US official, who did not want to be named, said Washington also plans to supply Pakistan with larger, longer-range surveillance drones. The plan was put forward by US Defense Secretary Robert Gates in January 2010.

rest here

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/176131.html
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سيف الله
04-25-2011, 02:59 PM
Salaam



The main supply route for NATO troops in Afghanistan was temporarily closed after thousands of people blocked a key highway in Pakistan to protest against US drone strikes. The call for Sunday's blockade of the supply line came from cricketer-turn-politician Imran Khan after US officials rejected Pakistan's demand for sharp cuts in drone strikes in its tribal regions where al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters are based.

Activists from Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaaf (PTI), Khan's party, and other parties staged a sit-in on the highway leading to Afghanistan through the Pashtun tribal region of Khyber. A US drone attack that left at least 25 people dead in Pakistan's North Waziristan region triggered the two-day sit-in near the city of Peshawar.

Friday's attack by the unmanned drone hit a compound in Hasan Khel and was the latest in a series of such attacks to have targeted the region. According to the Pakistani media, the border region has been targeted by at least 20 US drone attacks this year.

NATO resolute

According to US officials, the routes through Pakistan bring in 40 per cent of supplies for NATO forces in Afghanistan. Of the remainder, 40 per cent comes through Afghanistan's neighbours in the north and 20 per cent by air.

The NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Kabul said the two-day blockade would have no impact on the alliance's operations in Afghanistan. "Co-ordination with Pakistani government officials has been conducted and we understand the government will maintain security," an ISAF spokesman said. "There is no impact on ISAF sustainment."

The increasing use of drones has been mired in controversy, with remotely-controlled Predator and Reaper drones being blamed for inadvertent strikes on civilians, inflaming anti-US sentiment.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/as...743193696.html
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Ramadhan
04-25-2011, 03:12 PM
Why is the pakistani government so spineless?

Kudos to the people of Pakistan for making a stand, something that their government should have done.
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yas2010
04-25-2011, 03:25 PM
Why is the pakistani government so spineless?
They like the US dollars in their personal bank accounts, their children in Foreign universities, they will have coup on the order of their american friends then these very same politicans will unearth in a couple of years. Didn't Zardari actually state once when he was imprisoned for corruption that he was mentally ill, yet he is a leader of pakistan on the back of his wifey's death. Makes me want to vomit. Knowing that Innocent people are dying. Please dont get me started on the corruption. Truly, May Allah (swt) have mercy on these so called leaders.


My previous post
The Pakistani govt and military should be protecting there people rather than allowing such awful atrocities to occur on their soil.
Yet we all know how inept they are, and they rather attack and kill their own people as we have seen in the SWAT valley.
Zardari, Sharif et al truly disgust me.
Reply

CosmicPathos
04-25-2011, 04:33 PM
The problems run deeper than this.

People of Pakistan are as varied in regards to American intervention. Those who belong to upper-middle class and are monetarily well off and live in Central Pakistan or Southern Pakistan, many of them are ok with US bombing the Northern areas. Only poor people or those working for Imran Khan's Tehreek e Insaaf are willing to come to the streets.

So I really have no sympathy for those people whose beliefs support American bombing so that "terrorists might be killed for building a safer and progressive Pakistan."
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LavaDog
04-25-2011, 05:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by yas2010
he is a leader of pakistan on the back of his wifey's death
Do youKnow a lot about Pakistan? Do you know what the common people think about benazir bhutto? This has always bugged me. It seems like she is revered by many but from what I have seen and read she was just as corrupt as any other leader, committed war crimes, and bled pakistan dry. The only thing she did right was try and keep pakistan safe from the war on terror but thats after the fact that she let the US build training camps for the taliban in pakistan.
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yas2010
04-25-2011, 05:19 PM
Do youKnow a lot about Pakistan? Do you know what the common people think about benazir bhutto? This has always bugged me. It seems like she is revered by many but from what I have seen and read she was just as corrupt as any other leader, committed war crimes, and bled pakistan dry.
Br please dont think i revered her anyway. Yes she was as corrupt as the rest. I do know that she had a great deal of support on the back of her fathers death. She appealed to the populist vote.

She and her dear husband siphoned millions into their private accounts. But the fact remains that due to policys and appeasement of the US that Pakistan as a soverign nation is being attacked with the poor innocent paying their ultimate price
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LavaDog
04-25-2011, 06:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by yas2010
Br please dont think i revered her anyway. Yes she was as corrupt as the rest. I do know that she had a great deal of support on the back of her fathers death. She appealed to the populist vote. She and her dear husband siphoned millions into their private accounts. But the fact remains that due to policys and appeasement of the US that Pakistan as a soverign nation is being attacked with the poor innocent paying their ultimate price

Ah thak you that clears up quite a bit. The media over here would have us believe that she was pakistans version of MLK.
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CosmicPathos
04-25-2011, 06:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by LavaDog
Ah thak you that clears up quite a bit. The media over here would have us believe that she was pakistans version of MLK.
What is mlk? None of the leaders starting from Jinnah to zardari wanted sharia law.
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LavaDog
04-25-2011, 06:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist
What is mlk? None of the leaders starting from Jinnah to zardari wanted sharia law.

Marten luther king. What I ment was she was the puppet of the US until she slipped up on the bin laden thing. But over here the media trys to tell you that she did great things and was killed by terrorists who hated the idea of a women in charge. Even though the video clearly shows otherwise. I knew mr. 10 percent was not well liked but did not know about his wife.
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yas2010
04-25-2011, 07:01 PM
MLK = martin luther king. HTH

Dear Br mad scientist yes its true none of the so called 'founding fathers' of pakistan wanted sharia law. But all the subsequent leaders have been abhorrent. Not sure what Dr Allama Iqbal would make of it. Not sure if he wanted Sharia law either?!

About 20 years ago i travelled to Pakistan, and i was horrfied at the poverty but also the levels of wealth too.
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GuestFellow
04-25-2011, 07:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by LavaDog
Ah thak you that clears up quite a bit. The media over here would have us believe that she was pakistans version of MLK.

I'm lost...what's milk got to do with this?

EDIT:

Sorry I thought you typed milk.
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سيف الله
05-07-2011, 09:56 AM
Salaam

So, the quest to help Pakistanis understand 'American values' continues. . . . . .

A non-UN sanctioned US drone strike has killed at least 17 people and wounded several others in Pakistan's troubled northwestern tribal region.

The unmanned US predators fired a number of missiles in the tribal district of North Waziristan, a Press TV correspondent reported on Friday. Local security officials say a house and a hotel were targeted.

The aerial attacks, initiated by former US President George W. Bush have escalated under President Barack Obama. Islamabad has often voiced its anger at repeated non-UN sanctioned US drone strikes.

US officials say the attacks target militants. However, a majority of the victims of the attacks are civilians. The issue of civilian casualties has strained relations between Islamabad and Washington.

The Islamabad government has condemned the strikes as violation of its sovereignty. CIA director Leon Panetta recently said the US has no intention of stopping the attacks.

The Friday attack comes after Pakistani authorities strongly censured the US for conducting another unauthorized attack in Pakistan that led to the killing of al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/178532.html

BBC version of events

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13307509
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Perseveranze
05-07-2011, 02:15 PM
Pak gov needs to Man up and tell US to get out, if they don't their people will Inshallah revolt like Libya/Tunisia/Egypt and many of the other Muslim countries and not stand for this blaitant corruption.
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سيف الله
05-13-2011, 09:47 AM
Salaam

It continues. . . . .

US drone strike kills 8 in Pakistan

A non-UN-sanctioned US drone strike has claimed the lives of at least eight people and left four others wounded in Pakistan's northwestern tribal area of North Waziristan, local security forces reported.The incident occurred on Thursday morning when a US drone aircraft fired missiles at a vehicle in the Datta Khel area, near the border with Afghanistan, a Press TV correspondent reported.

The United States frequently carries out such attacks on Pakistan's tribal areas. The aerial attacks, initiated by former Republican US President George W. Bush, have escalated under Democratic President Barack Obama, who had earlier promised major changes in the American militaristic policies.

The United States claims that the air raids target Pakistani militants, but Pakistani officials say many civilians are also killed in the attacks. Meanwhile, Pakistani sources have stated that the US drone strikes kill 50 civilians for every one militant.

Islamabad has frequently slammed the United States over the drone attacks, saying they violate its sovereignty.

http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/179509.html

BBC version

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13371553
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سيف الله
05-22-2011, 10:40 PM
Salaam

Surprise, surprise :(

Cables show US special operations in Pakistan

Leaked US diplomatic messages show Pakistani military requested more drone strikes and help from US special forces.




Pakistan's government called for the US to step up drone strikes, and asked for US special forces troops to be embedded at Pakistani military bases, leaked cables published by a Pakistani newspaper have revealed. The classified US diplomatic cables were published on Saturday by Dawn, Pakistan's largest English-language newspaper, detailing close relationships between American and Pakistani militaries and intelligence services. Dawn reported that it had signed a deal with Julian Assange, the leader of the online whistleblowing organisation WikiLeaks, to obtain exclusive access to more than 4,700 US cables dealing with Pakistan.

It began publishing those cables and its coverage of them on Saturday and said its reporting would continue "in the following days." The first batch of cables shows that Pakistani officials, including those as high-ranking as Army Chief of Staff Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, explicitly asked US representatives to increase drone activity in Pakistan - the kind of request no Pakistani politician or government official would be comfortable making in public. In a meeting on January 22, 2008, Kayani asked Admiral William J. Fallon, the commander of the US Central Command, to provide "continuous Predator [drone] coverage of the conflict area" in South Waziristan, a district in the semi-autonomous Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) on the northwest border with Afghanistan, where Pakistan has battled elements of the Taliban.

Fallon said he could not make that happen, but offered to put US Marines on the ground in Pakistan to coordinate air strikes for Pakistani troops. Kayani said that "would not be politically acceptable." Less than two months later, Kayani met with Admiral Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and asked for help approving a "third Restricted Operating Zone for US aircraft over the FATA," suggesting that the United States had already secured two zones for drones to operate, but that Pakistan had set conditions on how far the planes could roam. In September 2009, a high-ranking FATA Secretariat officer told a US diplomat at the nearby Peshawar consulate that the US could help an upcoming Pakistani military operation in South Waziristan with "continued [drone] strikes."

The FATA bureaucrat even offered a specific strategy. "He explained that after a strike, the terrorists seal off the area to collect the bodies; in the first 10-24 hours after an attack, the only people in the area are terrorists," the Peshawar consulate officer, Candace Putnam, wrote. "You should hit them again - there are no innocents there at that time,'" Putnam quoted the man as saying. "The official also drew a diagram essentially laying out the rationale for signature strikes that eliminated terrorist training camps and urged that the US do more of these," she wrote.

Pakistani air force officials recently admitted during a closed-door parliamentary session - called to discuss the US raid that killed Osama bin Laden - that the US flies drones out of Shamsi airbase in the Balochistan province, according to news reports. The officials said the drones flown from Shamsi are for surveillance, and are not armed. American Special Operations activity in Pakistan has been reported for years but never confirmed by officials in either country. Three US soldiers, who died in a February 2010 Taliban suicide bombing in northwest Pakistan, were among at least 60 to 100 Special Operations troops tasked with training the Frontier Corps in counterinsurgency techniques, the New York Times reported.

Jeremy Scahill, writing for the Nation magazine in December 2009, reported that the US Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) and private contractors from Xe Services, formerly known as Blackwater, were operating a small and "covert" base out of the southern Pakistani port city of Karachi. There, Scahill wrote, they planned targeted assassinations and captures of Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters and helped operate a military drone campaign that ran parallel and in secret to that operated by the Central Intelligence Agency. The United States and Pakistan had agreed as early as 2006 to allow the Joint Special Operations Command to enter Pakistan, he wrote.

The cables released by Dawn confirmed some of these reports, though they did not mention the more explosive accounts about Blackwater and JSOC. They detailed close, on-the-ground military and intelligence coordination between the United States and Pakistan that had begun by May 2009, when US Ambassador Anne Patterson wrote to State Department headquarters in Washington DC about "Intelligence Fusion" cells the United States had established in Pakistan. The cells consisted of US Special Forces - Green Berets - embedded with Pakistani Special Security Group (SSG) and Frontier Corps troops, but the US soldiers had not yet been given permission to accompany the Pakistani units on deployments, Patterson wrote.

A night mission with the 3rd Commando Group of the SSG had been planned for April 2009 to attack the Taliban-held city of Daggar, but the Pakistani military cancelled the US involvement at the last moment, saying its forces did not need assistance. A previously published October 2009 cable described how US troops had been deployed in South and North Waziristan with the Pakistani army's 11th Corps, after previously joining Pakistani troops in Bajaur. It was unclear whether any of these deployments involved fighting, or just intelligence gathering and training.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/as...836483568.html
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سيف الله
06-04-2011, 12:05 PM
Salaam

US missile kills 8 in South Waziristan

At least eight people have been killed in a US missile attack targeting a militant compound in Pakistan. Pakistani security officials said the attack took place late on Friday in the Ghwakhwa area, 10 kilometers (six miles) west of Wana, the main town of the South Waziristan tribal region, AFP reported. Earlier on Friday, militants killed at least five people and injured several others, including four policemen, in the southern port city of Karachi.

Another security official said the “identities of those killed in the attack were not immediately known.” The strike was the ninth to be reported in Pakistan's tribal areas, which are located close to the Afghan border, since the US attack in the city of Abbottabad that allegedly killed al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden on May 2 (May 1 Washington time).

Pakistani lawmakers have recently passed a resolution condemning the US attack in Abbottabad and demanding a review of ties with the US and other Western countries. The resolution also called for an independent investigation into the attack, which the parliament called a unilateral action and a violation of Pakistan's sovereignty. The resolution said that if they are not halted, such attacks could have dire consequences for peace and security in the region and the world.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/183087.html

Hmmm BBC has a different take,

US strike 'kills' key Pakistan militant Ilyas Kashmiri

One of Pakistan's most senior militants has been killed in a US drone strike in South Waziristan, reports say. Locals said Ilyas Kashmiri was among nine people killed in the overnight strike on the village of Laman. They said he and his men had only recently arrived in the area. His death has not been confirmed by officials.

Ilyas Kashmiri heads a group that specialises in co-ordinated Mumbai-style strikes on military targets, and is a key commander in al-Qaeda. He is so senior within al-Qaeda that his name had been mentioned as a possible successor to Osama Bin Laden, the BBC's Orla Guerin in Islamabad says. His death would be welcomed by the White House, she adds. The US blames him for organising multiple attacks in Afghanistan, Pakistan and India - and has offered its maximum reward for a most-wanted target, $5m (£3.04m).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13653324
Reply

MSalman
06-04-2011, 02:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by yas2010
Not sure what Dr Allama Iqbal would make of it. Not sure if he wanted Sharia law either?!
Iqbal didn't only want Shariah to be implemented but in fact he also wanted the khilafah. His writings in end part of his life speak greatly about this subject and they are eye openers for Pakistani secularists and nationalists who revere him and appeal to his philosophy against Islamists. He spoke out against nationalism and warned the Muslims. He clearly said that as Muslims we can't succeed by relying on this nationalism notion. He said that we should unite one as a ummah and should rule by laws of Allah as success lies only in that path. As a Pakistani, growing up in that culture with only high school education about Iqbal's philosophy, I was quite surprised to read what he actually believed in and died for. I was thinking the other day that it's no surprise that Iqbal was jailed whereas this never happened to Muhammad Ali Jinnah. Because the British government saw him as a extremists Islamist who wanted khilafah and shariah back. Jinnah was a different man, it has come to my attention that he actually opposed and spoke out against the khilafat movement.

You should read Iqbal's wataniyat - it's a gem against nationalism upon which the current world is based.
Reply

سيف الله
06-08-2011, 07:45 PM
Salaam

There has been a 'spate' of drone attacks recently.

US drone strike kills 23 in Pakistan

The US has conducted another unauthorized drone airstrike in Pakistan's troubled northwest, leaving at least 23 people dead and several others wounded. Officials say the US drones have fired five missiles into North Waziristan close to the Afghan border.

Meanwhile, Pakistani medics reported that the missiles fired by US drones have contaminated the environment with unknown chemicals. They say most of those wounded by US drone airstrikes in North Waziristan are hospitalized for various skin, eye and respiratory diseases caused by chemicals.

The US often carries out such attacks on Pakistan's tribal regions, claiming that the militants are their target. But locals say civilians are the main victims of the non-UN-sanctioned US strikes.

The issue of civilian casualties has strained the relations between Islamabad and Washington with the Pakistani government repeatedly objecting to the attacks. Attacks by unmanned American planes have left dozens of people dead in the volatile region over the past weeks.

The aerial attacks, initiated by former US president George W. Bush, have been escalated under President Barack Obama. Islamabad has repeatedly condemned the attacks, saying they violate Pakistan's sovereignty.

The United Nations says the US-operated drone strikes in Pakistan pose a growing challenge to the international rule of law.

Philip Alston, UN special envoy on extrajudicial killings, said in a report in late October 2010 that the attacks were undermining the rules designed to protect the right of life. Alston also said he fears that the drone killings by the US Central Intelligence Agency could develop a "play station" mentality.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/183744.html

I can believe this, Depleted Uranium anyone?

'US drone rockets contain toxic agents'

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/183743.html

BBC version of events

Pakistan: US drone strike 'kills 15' people

Shawal is a forested area between North and South Waziristan tribal regions. North Waziristan has been a regular target of drone strikes in the recent past.

But four of the last five drone attacks have targeted South Waziristan - a leading al-Qaeda militant, Ilyas Kashmiri, was reported to have been killed there in a US strike over the weekend.

On Monday three drone strikes killed at least 18 people in South Waziristan. Militants have vowed to avenge Kashmiri's reported killing, as well as the killing by US forces of Osama Bin Laden last month.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13695839
Reply

سيف الله
06-15-2011, 08:41 PM
Salaam

It continues

US drone strikes kill 10 in Pakistan

At least 10 people have been killed and several others have been injured in two unauthorized US drone attacks on Pakistan's troubled northwestern tribal region.

Pakistan's security officials say missiles fired by a drone hit a compound and a car near Wana -- the main town of South Waziristan.

Witnesses say the vehicle was destroyed completely, leaving all four occupants dead and six people were killed in the attack on the compound.

Last week, four such attacks targeting the same tribal area killed over 40 people.

Hundreds of people have been killed in US attacks in Pakistan.

The aerial attacks, initiated by former US president George W. Bush, have been escalated under President Barack Obama.

Islamabad has repeatedly condemned the attacks, saying they violate Pakistan's sovereignty.

The United Nations says the US-operated drone strikes in Pakistan pose a growing challenge to the international rule of law.

Philip Alston, UN special envoy on extrajudicial killings, said in a report in late October 2010 that the attacks were undermining the rules designed to protect the right of life.

Alston also said he feared that the drone killings by the US Central Intelligence Agency could develop a "play station" mentality.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/184819.html

BBC version of events

Pakistan: US drone strikes kill seven - officials say

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13781621
Reply

سيف الله
06-20-2011, 01:22 PM
Salaam

Its so predicable that reporters have no need to change, the structure of their reporting

US drone attacks kill 12 in Pakistan

A series of unauthorized US drone attacks have killed at least twelve people and wounded several others in the troubled northwestern Pakistan.


The first attack targeted a vehicle in the Kurram tribal agency, leaving five people dead.

As tribesmen gathered at the scene, the vehicle was struck again, killing two more people.

Another air strike targeted a near-by house, killing five people.

Washington claims its airstrikes are directed at militants, but local officials dispute the claim and say mostly civilians have been killed so far.

Islamabad has repeatedly condemned the strikes as a violation of its sovereignty.

The United Nations says the US-operated drone strikes in Pakistan pose a growing challenge to the international rule of law.

Philip Alston, UN special envoy on extrajudicial killings, said in a report in late October that the attacks were undermining the rules designed to protect the right of life.

Alston also said he feared that the drone killings by the US Central Intelligence Agency could develop a "playstation" mentality.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/185464.html

BBC version of events

Pakistan: Militant attack on anti-Taliban elders

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13835540
Reply

سيف الله
06-28-2011, 12:01 AM
Salaam

Unauthorized US strikes kill 21 Pakistanis

Two separate non-UN-sanctioned drone attacks have killed at least 21 people and wounded several others in the troubled northwestern Pakistan.


A US drone fired missiles at a truck in the South Waziristan region, killing eight. Shortly afterwards, 13 people were killed in a compound after it was hit by an unmanned US plane.

The US has expanded its airstrikes in Pakistan since President Barack Obama took office in 2009. The US often carries out such attacks on Pakistan's tribal regions, claiming that the militants are their target.

But locals say civilians are the main victims of the unauthorized US strikes. Hundreds of people have been killed in the attacks. There have also been numerous demonstrations across Pakistan against the US drone attacks.

The issue of civilian casualties has strained relations between Islamabad and Washington with the Pakistani government repeatedly objecting to the attacks. The United Nations says the US-operated drone strikes in Pakistan pose a growing challenge to the international rule of law.

Philip Alston, UN special envoy on extrajudicial killings, said in a report in late October 2010 that the attacks were undermining the rules designed to protect the right of life. Alston also said he fears that the drone killings by the US Central Intelligence Agency could develop a "playstation" mentality.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/186473.html

I have to say this is the pick of the comments

The problem with the whole region is the whole region. The US presence is the one thing that would give them a chance at a normal future. If the people there weren't so backward and crazy, they might see that a new way is better than their old, out-dated, out-moded, cruel, insane ways.Rise up and throw off your own, internal oppressors first - then the US might not need to be there to keep it half-way normal.

Just illustrates how deeply deeply ingrained the notion of the 'white mans burden' is, in certain sections of western society.


Aljazeeras version

Deaths reported in Pakistan drone attacks

Intelligence officials say two US missile raids in South Waziristan region have left at least 21 people dead.


http://english.aljazeera.net/news/as...913681555.html
Reply

سيف الله
07-14-2011, 08:43 AM
Salaam

Drone terror continues

Suspected US drones kill 38 in Pakistan

The unusually heavy barrage suggests the US has no intention of halting its drone programme despite tensions with Pakistan


Three suspected US missile strikes in north-western Pakistan in less than 12 hours have killed at least 38 alleged militants, an unusually heavy barrage at a time when relations between the two countries are badly strained, Pakistani intelligence officials said.

The strikes follow the Obama administration's announcement that it is suspending more than one-third of US military aid to Pakistan until disagreements are worked out. The attacks indicate the White House has no intention of stopping the unmanned drone programme, even though the attacks have increasingly caused tension with Pakistan.

In the latest strike, suspected US missiles hit a house in Dremala village in the South Waziristan tribal area early on Tuesday, killing at least eight alleged militants, according to two Pakistani intelligence officials. Two other officials put the death toll from the strike at 13. The village is located close to the border with North Waziristan.

Before dawn on Tuesday, suspected US missiles hit a house in the Shawal area of North Waziristan, killing 10 alleged militants, said Pakistani intelligence officials.

Late on Monday, suspected US missiles hit a house in Gorvak village in North Waziristan, killing at least 20 alleged militants, said two Pakistani intelligence officials. Pakistani intelligence officials put the death toll at 23. The village is located very close to the Afghan border and is often used as a route for militants to cross into Afghanistan.

The US refuses to publicly acknowledge the covert CIA drone programme in Pakistan, but officials have said privately that the strikes have killed senior Taliban and al-Qaida officials.

Pakistan is widely believed to have supported the strikes in the past, even though officials often criticise them publicly as a violation of the country's sovereignty. But that support has become less certain in recent months, especially following the covert US raid that killed Osama bin Laden.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...rones-pakistan
Reply

سيف الله
07-16-2011, 08:59 AM
Salaam

Some encouraging news

Campaigners seek arrest of former CIA legal chief over Pakistan drone attacks

UK human rights lawyer leads bid to have John Rizzo arrested over claims he approved attacks that killed hundreds of people


Campaigners against US drone strikes in Pakistan are calling for the CIA's former legal chief to be arrested and charged with murder for approving attacks that killed hundreds of people.

Amid growing concern around the world over the use of drones, lawyers and relatives of some of those killed are seeking an international arrest warrant for John Rizzo, until recently acting general counsel for the American intelligence agency. Opponents of drones say the unmanned aircraft are responsible for the deaths of up to 2,500 Pakistanis in 260 attacks since 2004. US officials say the vast majority of those killed are "militants". Earlier this week 48 people were killed in two strikes on tribal regions of Pakistan. The American definition of "militant" has been disputed by relatives and campaigners.

The attempt to seek an international arrest warrant for Rizzo is being led by the British human rights lawyer Clive Stafford Smith of the campaign group Reprieve, and lawyers in Pakistan. The lawyers are also building cases against other individuals, including drone operators interviewed or photographed during organised press facilities. A first information report, the first step in seeking a prosecution of Rizzo in Pakistan, will be formally lodged early next week at a police station in the capital, Islamabad, on behalf of relatives of two people killed in drone strikes in 2009. The report will also allege Rizzo should be charged with conspiracy to murder a large number of Pakistani citizens.

Now retired, Rizzo, 63, is being pursued after admitting in an interview with the magazine Newsweek that since 2004 he had approved one drone attack order a month on targets in Pakistan, even though the US is not at war with the country.

Rizzo, who was by his own admission "up to my eyeballs" in approving CIA use of "enhanced interrogation techniques", said in the interview that the CIA operated "a hit list". He also asked: "How many law professors have signed off on a death warrant?"

Rizzo has also admitted being present while civilian operators conducted drone strikes from their terminals at the CIA headquarters in Virginia.

Although US government lawyers have tried to argue that drone strikes are conducted on a "solid legal basis", some believe the civilians who operate the drones could be classified as "unlawful combatants". US drone strikes were first launched on Pakistan by George Bush and have been accelerated by Barack Obama. Much of the intelligence for the attacks is supplied either by the Pakistani military or the ISI, the country's controversial intelligence agency. Both have blocked journalists and human rights investigators from visiting the tribal areas targeted, preventing independent verification of the numbers killed and their status.

While Stafford Smith of Reprieve estimates around 2,500 civilian deaths, others say the number is closer to 1,000. US sources deny large numbers of civilian deaths and say only a few dozen "non-combatants" have been killed. While killing civilians in military operations is not illegal under international law unless it is proved to be deliberate, disproportionate or reckless, Stafford Smith believes the nature of the US drone campaign puts it on a different legal footing.

"The US has to follow the laws of war," he said. "The issue here is that this is not a war. There is zero chance, given the current political situation in Pakistan, that we will not get a warrant for Rizzo. The question is what happens next. We can try for extradition and the US will refuse.

"Interpol, I believe, will have to issue a warrant because there is no question that it is a legitimate complaint."

The warrant will be sought on the basis of two test cases. The first centres on an incident on 7 September 2009 when a drone strike hit a compound during Ramadan, brought by a man named Sadaullah who lost both his legs and three relatives in the attack. The second complaint was brought by Kareem Khan over a strike on 31 December 2009 in the village of Machi Khel in North Waziristan which killed his son and brother. Both men allege Rizzo was involved in authorising the attack. The CIA refused to comment on the allegations.

The pursuit of Rizzo will further damage US-Pakistani relations, which are already under severe strain following years of drone attacks and the killing of Osama bin Laden in May. Last week the US suspended $800m (£495m) in military aid to Pakistan. The US launch its first drone strike against a target in Pakistan in 2004, the only one for that year. Last year there were 118 attacks after Obama expanded their use in 2009, while 2011 has so far seen 42. The use of drones has been sharply criticised both by Pakistani officials as well as international investigators including the UN's special rapporteur Philip Alston who demanded in late 2009 that the US demonstrate that it was not simply running a programme with no accountability that is killing innocent people.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/15/cia-usa
Reply

سيف الله
10-06-2012, 01:28 PM
Salaam

Report on the American terror.


Drone attacks in Pakistan are counterproductive, says report

US academics' report says drones kill large numbers of civilians and increase recruitment by militant groups




The CIA's programme of "targeted" drone killings in Pakistan's tribal heartlands is politically counterproductive, kills large numbers of civilians and undermines respect for international law, according to a report by US academics.

The study by Stanford and New York universities' law schools, based on interviews with victims, witnesses and experts, blames the US president, Barack Obama, for the escalation of "signature strikes" in which groups are selected merely through remote "pattern of life" analysis. Families are afraid to attend weddings or funerals, it says, in case US ground operators guiding drones misinterpret them as gatherings of Taliban or al-Qaida militants.

"The dominant narrative about the use of drones in Pakistan is of a surgically precise and effective tool that makes the US safer by enabling 'targeted killings' of terrorists, with minimal downsides or collateral impacts. This narrative is false," the report, entitled Living Under Drones, states.

The authors admit it is difficult to obtain accurate data on casualties "because of US efforts to shield the drone programme from democratic accountability, compounded by obstacles to independent investigation of strikes in North Waziristan".

The "best available information", they say, is that between 2,562 and 3,325 people have been killed in Pakistan between June 2004 and mid-September this year – of whom between 474 and 881 were civilians, including 176 children. The figures have been assembled by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, which estimated that a further 1,300 individuals were injured in drone strikes over that period. The report was commissioned by and written with the help of the London-based Reprieve organisation, which is supporting action in the British courts by Noor Khan, a Pakistani whose father was killed by a US drone strike in March 2011. His legal challenge alleges the UK is complicit in US drone strikes because GCHQ, the eavesdropping agency, shares intelligence with the CIA on targets for drone strikes.

"US drones hover 24 hours a day over communities in north-west Pakistan, striking homes, vehicles, and public spaces without warning," the American law schools report says.

"Their presence terrorises men, women, and children, giving rise to anxiety and psychological trauma among civilian communities. Those living under drones have to face the constant worry that a deadly strike may be fired at any moment, and the knowledge that they are powerless to protect themselves.

"These fears have affected behaviour. The US practice of striking one area multiple times, and evidence that it has killed rescuers, makes both community members and humanitarian workers afraid or unwilling to assist injured victims."

The study goes on to say: "Publicly available evidence that the strikes have made the US safer overall is ambiguous at best … The number of 'high-level' militants killed as a percentage of total casualties is extremely low – estimated at just 2% [of deaths]. Evidence suggests that US strikes have facilitated recruitment to violent non-state armed groups, and motivated further violent attacks … One major study shows that 74% of Pakistanis now consider the US an enemy."

Coming from American lawyers rather than overseas human rights groups, the criticisms are likely to be more influential in US domestic debates over the legality of drone warfare.

"US targeted killings and drone strike practices undermine respect for the rule of law and international legal protections and may set dangerous precedents," the report says, questioning whether Pakistan has given consent for the attacks.

"The US government's failure to ensure basic transparency and accountability in its targeted killings policies, to provide details about its targeted killing programme, or adequately to set out the legal factors involved in decisions to strike hinders necessary democratic debate about a key aspect of US foreign and national security policy.

"US practices may also facilitate recourse to lethal force around the globe by establishing dangerous precedents for other governments. As drone manufacturers and officials successfully reduce export control barriers, and as more countries develop lethal drone technologies, these risks increase."

The report supports the call by Ben Emmerson QC, the UN's special rapporteur on countering terrorism, for independent investigations into deaths from drone strikes and demands the release of the US department of justice memorandums outlining the legal basis for US targeted killings in Pakistan. The report highlights the switch from the former president George W Bush's practice of targeting high-profile al-Qaida personalities to the reliance, under Obama's administration, of analysing patterns of life on the ground to select targets.

"According to US authorities, these strikes target 'groups of men who bear certain signatures, or defining characteristics associated with terrorist activity, but whose identities aren't known'," the report says. "Just what those 'defining characteristics' are has never been made public." People in North Waziristan are now afraid to attend funerals or other gatherings, it suggests.

Fears that US agents pay informers to attach electronic tags to the homes of suspected militants in Pakistan haunt the tribal districts, according to the study. "[In] Waziristan … residents are gripped by rumours that paid CIA informants have been planting tiny silicon-chip homing devices that draw the drones.

"Many of the Waziris interviewed spoke of a constant fear of being tagged with a chip by a neighbour or someone else who works for either Pakistan or the US, and of the fear of being falsely accused of spying by local Taliban."

Reprieve's director, Clive Stafford Smith, said: "An entire region is being terrorised by the constant threat of death from the skies. Their way of life is collapsing: kids are too terrified to go to school, adults are afraid to attend weddings, funerals, business meetings, or anything that involves gathering in groups.

"George Bush wanted to create a global 'war on terror' without borders, but it has taken Obama's drone war to achieve his dream."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/
Reply

سيف الله
12-21-2012, 03:57 PM
Salaam


High court rejects challenge over UK link to drone strikes in Pakistan

Drone strike victim's son to appeal against court's refusal to bar British officials from sharing targeting intelligence with US





A Pakistani man whose father was killed in a US drone strike has failed to persuade the UK courts that British officials should be prevented from sharing targeting intelligence with the CIA. Noor Khan said he would appeal against the high court's refusal to issue a declaration that support for US drone operations over Pakistan may involve acts of assisting murder or even war crimes.

His landmark challenge, backed by the human rights organisation Reprieve and the solicitors Leigh Day, was based on reports that the government's signal intelligence centre, GCHQ, passes on information about the location of Taliban suspects to the CIA.

Khan's father, Malik Daud Khan, was killed on 17 March 2011, the court was told. He had been presiding over an outdoor meeting of local elders to settle a commercial dispute when a missile was fired from a drone. Altogether 49 people perished in the attack.

Martin Chamberlain, counsel for Khan, told the court that a newspaper article in 2010 reported that GCHQ was using telephone intercepts to provide the US authorities with locational intelligence on leading militants in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The report suggested that the Cheltenham-based agency was proud of this work, which was said to be "in strict accordance with the law".

In its judgment the high court noted: "By assisting US agents to direct armed attacks in Pakistan, GCHQ employees are said to be at risk of committing offences under the criminal law of England and Wales, as secondary parties to murder. The claimant submits that there is no armed conflict in Pakistan, as it is recognised under international law, still less an international armed conflict, and thus GCHQ employees are not entitled to combatant immunity.

"The response of the secretary of state has been to invoke the consistent and conventional policy of neither confirming nor denying the assertions; to do so would risk damaging the important public interest in preserving the confidentiality of national security and 'vital' relations with international partners."

The two judges, Lord Justice Moses and Mr Justice Simon, said the real purpose of the legal action was "to persuade a court to do what it can to stop further strikes by drones operated by the United States. In this country, however, that presents the claimant with a formidable difficulty. His legal advisers acknowledge, as they have to acknowledge, that they cannot seek from this court a declaration that the United States' drone strikes are unlawful. They recognise that a domestic court would refuse to make such a declaration.

"Since an employee [of GCHQ] is unlikely to be in a position to know whether or how intelligence is disseminated, no sensible guidance could possibly be given as to the circumstances when intelligence may lawfully be passed on and when it may not. Merely passing on intelligence could not amount to an offence under the Serious Crime Act 2007 unless a particular state of mind could be proved against the provider [at that time]. So how is the declaration to be drafted to have any meaningful utility?"

Leigh Day confirmed that Khan would appeal against the decision. He is also involved in a parallel case in Peshawar's high court asking the Pakistani government to disclose its involvement – if any – in the drone strikes. Rosa Curling, of Leigh Day, who represents Khan, said: "We are disappointed that the court has decided not to engage in this very important issue, leaving our client no option but to appeal the decision.

"This claim raises very serious questions and issues about the UK's involvement in the CIA drone attacks in Pakistan. This case seeks to determine the legality of intelligence sharing in relation to GCHQ assistance in CIA drone strikes. Those providing such information could be commiting serious criminal offences, including conspiracy to murder."

Kat Craig, legal director of Reprieve, said: "CIA drone attacks in Pakistan terrorise entire communities of innocent civilians in a country with which the UK is not at war. By avoiding judicial scrutiny over drone attacks, combined with its ongoing attempts to push through secret courts, this government is showing a disturbing desire to put itself above the law. We should not be involved in secret, dirty wars, where civilian casualties are ignored or hushed up. If the government is supporting the CIA's campaign of drone strikes which are illegal, the British public have the right to know."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/21/high-court-drone-strikes-pakistan
Reply

سيف الله
02-11-2013, 10:36 PM
Salaam

Another update

Jeremy Scahill: Assassinations of U.S. Citizens Largely Ignored at Brennan CIA Hearing

Reply

sister herb
02-11-2013, 11:04 PM
Salam alaykum

I don´t think that burning flags of the USA or keeping demonsration against attacks help anything. The goverment of Pakistan should ask the USA stop those drone attacks.

Why they arent interesting to protect they own citicens?

:raging:
Reply

ardianto
02-12-2013, 01:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
Why they arent interesting to protect they own citicens?
Huge amount of aid.

US would not fly their drones to attack tribal area in Pakistan if Pakistani govt didn't allow it. But there's 'deal' in this matter.
Reply

Independent
02-12-2013, 10:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
Huge amount of aid.

US would not fly their drones to attack tribal area in Pakistan if Pakistani govt didn't allow it. But there's 'deal' in this matter.
Is it not the case also that there are many factions within the Pakistan government? Some pro Taliban, some anti. No one party seems to be in complete control so Pakistan policy follows a contradictory, inconsistent path.
Reply

ardianto
02-12-2013, 10:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
Is it not the case also that there are many factions within the Pakistan government? Some pro Taliban, some anti. No one party seems to be in complete control so Pakistan policy follows a contradictory, inconsistent path.
Some people in pakistan said that there's huge amount of military aid that corrupted again by elite in pakistan.

Drone attack on Pakistan is wondering me. This is foreign military attack toward civilian in a country, but local govt cannot take decisive action to stop it. Pak land itself is logistic route for NATO troops in Afghanistan. Fuel for NATO transit in Karachi harbour then carried by Pakistani tanker trucks to Afghanistan, but often attacked by Pakistani Taliban.
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Periwinkle18
02-12-2013, 11:07 AM
They won't stop them

They've started sending even more.

Our govt is just crazy all they want is money n thts wht they're getting from america n that is the reason y they listen to them.
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سيف الله
02-12-2013, 11:27 PM
Salaam

format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
Huge amount of aid.

US would not fly their drones to attack tribal area in Pakistan if Pakistani govt didn't allow it. But there's 'deal' in this matter.
Yes, basic American strategy, bribing the elites who rule Pakistan (and calling it aid heh). They may perfunctorily bark at the Americans but they wont bite the hand that feeds them.

When I was younger used to have some respect for the military, but the leadership particularly now considered a laughing stock (speaking with relatives who were in the army etc etc). Again they may huff and puff but thats about it.

I mean suppose if India were launching drone attacks, I think you would get a very different response.
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iRock
02-18-2013, 11:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Periwinkle18
They won't stop them

They've started sending even more.

Our govt is just crazy all they want is money n thts wht they're getting from america n that is the reason y they listen to them.
Yes , they will never stop and there will more victims :heated:
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Dburzon
02-18-2013, 03:10 PM
The second another country gets advanced weaponized drones and starts killing their own "terrorists" abroad just wait for America to claim some moral high ground and demand they stop.

America went down the wrong path on this one. Sets the standard for other countries to follow suit. Dangerous dangerous dangerous
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Al-Mufarridun
02-19-2013, 01:52 AM
Last week, the veil of silence was finally lifted when two of the most important and influential newspapers in the United States – the New York Times and the Washington Post – ran stories on a secret airbase in Saudi Arabia from which the US military has operated its 'drone war' campaign over Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen for the past two years.

However, as the story broke, it also came to light that reporters at both newspapers had known about the base long before the story went to print. They had agreed to conceal newsworthy information at the request of the US intelligence establishment, on the basis that reporting the truth would have harmed American national security interests.
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/...854925446.html
_________________________________

Imagine how that makes Muslims feel, when they learn that the attacks that have killed so many innocent Muslims were launched from this place. I wouldn't even want to imagine how the families of the victims feel.
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Logikon
02-19-2013, 02:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Junon

Islamabad has repeatedly condemned the strikes as a violation of its sovereignty.

That's only in public. In private they are happy with it.

The Taliban have destroyed 750 schools in this region. Only the other day a bomb destroyed a school and killed 80 people.

Mysteriously nobody cares. And many parents keep their children home from school.

The drone strikes must stop the Taleban because the Pakistani army can't stop the Taleban



.
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islamica
02-19-2013, 05:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Logikon
That's only in public. In private they are happy with it.

The Taliban have destroyed 750 schools in this region. Only the other day a bomb destroyed a school and killed 80 people.

Mysteriously nobody cares. And many parents keep their children home from school.

The drone strikes must stop the Taleban because the Pakistani army can't stop the Taleban



.
Your statements only illustrates the depths of you ignorance.



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ardianto
02-19-2013, 09:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Logikon
That's only in public. In private they are happy with it.

The Taliban have destroyed 750 schools in this region. Only the other day a bomb destroyed a school and killed 80 people.

Mysteriously nobody cares. And many parents keep their children home from school.

The drone strikes must stop the Taleban because the Pakistani army can't stop the Taleban



.
Destroying schools and bombing Shia people are two different cases. The bombing case that you mean was an anti Shia attack that not related to destroying girl schools.

Pakistani tribal area is a very unstable area. Taliban at there destroy many schools and cause fear among students and their parents. It's true, but actually it's Pakistani military and police duty to stop Taliban and creating a safe atmosphere in tribal area.

Maybe you don't know yet that Pakistan is the logistic route for Nato troops in Afghanistan, and Pakistani Taliban often 'disturb' the Nato supply. US send drones is because Taliban attack these supply, not because Taliban destroy schools.

Many of drone victims are innocent people who are not Taliban, even Pakistani soldiers were killed by drone attack too, it's because US is not selective when they shoot the target. Do you know that US have 'good reputation' in shooting wrong targets?

Like I've said, it's Pakistani military and police duty to stop Taliban and creating a safe atmosphere in tribal area. They could do better if they were 'independent'.
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Periwinkle18
02-19-2013, 02:41 PM
I don't think the Taliban are crazy y would they bomb schools ??

Its wht our stupid govt does n blames it on whoever they want.

Just like the blast that happened last nite in karachi
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Independent
02-19-2013, 03:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Periwinkle18
I don't think the Taliban are crazy y would they bomb schools ??
See this recent report from the BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21479169
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ardianto
02-19-2013, 03:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
See this recent report from the BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21479169
But from what I know they bomb the schools always when the schools are empty.
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Independent
02-19-2013, 03:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
But from what I know they bomb the schools always when the schools are empty.
Yes, I don't think this report suggests otherwise. Nevertheless it indicates that the Mallala incident did not happen in isolation and that the Taliban are indeed conducting a war against education, or a certain kind of education. It seems to me the local people are suffering from both sides. It's a very confusing situation and I find it impossible to work out what's going on from all the reports. In my view, both the Taliban and the US are acting wrongly.
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Periwinkle18
02-19-2013, 03:33 PM
I don't trust BBC I know what's gng on in my country n tht malala thing is a drama.
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Periwinkle18
02-19-2013, 03:34 PM
Its those drones tht r killing those poor ppl.
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islamica
02-19-2013, 11:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Periwinkle18
I don't trust BBC I know what's gng on in my country n tht malala thing is a drama.
I always find it funny how people sitting half a world away listening to kuffar propaganda start talking about this stuff as if they are the experts.
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سيف الله
11-28-2013, 10:45 AM
Salaam

Another update. A documentary on Drone Warfare.

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Independent
11-28-2013, 11:40 AM
Far from banning drones, Pakistan is now building drones of its own:

"Pakistan launched its first domestically produced drones on Monday, as police cracked down on demonstrators protesting US drone strikes targeting Islamic militants on Pakistani territory."

"...the issue is complicated because the Pakistani government is known to have sanctioned some drone attacks but not others. Instead of carrying out the attacks themselves, Pakistan has asked the US to provide it with armed drones, saying that they would be more effective in carrying out attacks on militants. However, Washington has refused because of the sensitive nature of the technology used in drones and doubts whether Pakistan can reliably target US enemies."

http://rt.com/news/pakistan-deploys-...ic-drones-293/
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سيف الله
12-04-2013, 06:50 PM
Salaam

Are you trying to make a point? Or do you make a point of missing the point?

Its hardly confidential information that the governing elites of Pakistan have collaborated with the USA in its Drone programme. And it has a long record of killing its own population as history shows.
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Independent
12-04-2013, 11:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Junon
Its hardly confidential information that the governing elites of Pakistan have collaborated with the USA in its Drone programme
All the publicity has been about Pakistan saying drones are immoral - yet here they are building their own. They are destroying their own argument. Perhaps you knew about it already but I'll bet awareness is low outside Pakistan.
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جوري
12-05-2013, 12:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
yet here they are building their own.
People build their own drones for multiple reasons for instance to deliver packages to customers:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/02/tech/i...nes-questions/
what is your point? Only the U.S and its commander & chief Israel use drones to destroy innocent lives!
Try again!

best,
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Independent
12-05-2013, 09:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by جوري
People build their own drones for multiple reasons for instance to deliver packages to customers:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/02/tech/i...nes-questions/
Daft. This makes about as much sense as comparing the program with male bees because they're called drones too. The prototype Amazon drone is a courier, not a weapon.

format_quote Originally Posted by جوري
what is your point? Only the U.S and its commander & chief Israel use drones to destroy innocent lives!
Well, no. As Junon points out, the Pakistan government is complicit in the drone strikes despite its rhetoric to the contrary. Many of the targets are believed to be supplied by Pakistan intelligence, including some of those that lead to 'collateral damage'. But this news that Pakistan is trying to deploy its own drones makes any objection they might make based on principle impossible.
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جوري
12-05-2013, 10:04 AM
Pakistani govt. if complicit then out of direct order of the US to bomb their own people!
If they were making it to bomb little quaint villages in the US and UK then surely we'd all rejoice!
Golly mrs cleaver I've never known someone to write 50000 word essays much ado about nothing!
Cut the crap!
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Jedi_Mindset
12-05-2013, 10:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
Well, no. As Junon points out, the Pakistan government is complicit in the drone strikes despite its rhetoric to the contrary. Many of the targets are believed to be supplied by Pakistan intelligence, including some of those that lead to 'collateral damage'. But this news that Pakistan is trying to deploy its own drones makes any objection they might make based on principle impossible.
I have to agree with this. Pakistani government is entirely complicit in the crime against its own people. The whole rethoric is just deception to hide the blame. The only one who seems honest to stop the drones is imran khan when we talk about the poltiics.
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