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Flame of Hope
03-04-2011, 09:50 PM
A question for both revert Muslims and born Muslims. How do you know that Islam is the truth?
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Neelofar
03-04-2011, 09:56 PM
Through the Quran and faith :D
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Hannah.
03-04-2011, 10:14 PM
Only in Islam will anyone find an unadulterated teaching of monotheism, in which its teachings are so crystal clear and rational. Every other religion except Islam has something confusing or misguiding to say about the Oneness of God.
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Flame of Hope
03-04-2011, 10:44 PM
Originally Posted by Neelofar
Through the Quran and faith
Then a Christian might say that he knows his religion is the truth by claiming that it is through the Bible. A Jew may say it is through his Torah. A Hindu may say through his Gita.
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sister herb
03-04-2011, 11:00 PM
I don´t need to know. I just believe it is. That is faith.
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Flame of Hope
03-04-2011, 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by sister harb
I don´t need to know. I just believe it is. That is faith.
People of other faiths say the same thing.
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marwen
03-04-2011, 11:24 PM
First, the arguments presented in islam are satisfiying for me.
Second, if you understand arabic very well, just read the quran and you will know it's the word of Allah.
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Aprender
03-04-2011, 11:31 PM
I've dabbled in other sects under the umbrella of Christianity. Then a bit with agnosticism. I'm a firm believer in Occam's Razor which is a concept that stresses the importance of simplicity. I'm not a revert yet but in following other paths I just had to try too hard. Too many things didn't make sense. I cried a lot, felt like I was just a broken human because I didn't get the same joy out of other faiths like the other people did around me.

With Islam there is a very nice peace in the heart that comes along with it, at least for me. It's very clear and very straightforward. I don't feel confused when learning about Islam but there are times I need clarification. When someone clarifies something for me, I get it. As with the other religions, I still felt even more confused than before which led to stress, extreme doubt and terror when worrying about my soul due to the confusion and lack of clarity from the other religions...not a particularly healthy way to live.

Now, I can't say for certain at this point and time if Islam is THE truth. One reason being because I know how iffy it can be with something that is passed down through oral means, but I certainly believe it makes more sense than other religions out there.

That is my point of view. Other people interpret things differently so I don't know if there is one answer that is applicable to all people that will show it is the truth but in the marketplace of ideas, I think what is true will always prevail no matter how much people try to bury or distort it.
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Flame of Hope
03-04-2011, 11:35 PM
Originally Posted by marwen
First, the arguments presented in islam are satisfiying for me.
What are those arguments that have satisfied you?
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Sigma
03-04-2011, 11:38 PM
I don't have objective proof. But the concept of tawheed does it for me. Out of all the world religions Islam has the best definition of "God" in my opinion and seems most likely to be from God.
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Tyrion
03-04-2011, 11:48 PM
Originally Posted by sister harb
I don´t need to know. I just believe it is. That is faith.
I think that's more along the lines of blind faith, and isn't really a strong reason... As Flame said already, anyone can "just believe", and people of other faiths typically do. Islam is one of the few faiths that actually doesn't encourage blind faith, and encourages you to seek knowledge to find the truth.

For me, I was raised in a Muslim household but only recently did I become practicing. What led me to my conviction was listening to/reading the Quran, and listening to tons of lectures on it's linguistic miracles and teachings. I also found that there was always a satisfactory answer to controversial topics, and the core ideas of the religion seemed to follow a rational/logical train of thought... The history of Islam also played a big part in my belief, since I could see little reason to doubt the Prophet's sincerity and truthfulness, and the Quran itself (from my very brief studies) seems to have a divine quality to it. :p

These are just some of the things that have me convinced now, but obviously it takes different things to convince different people.
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marwen
03-05-2011, 12:14 AM
Originally Posted by Flame
What are those arguments that have satisfied you?
A - There is only one God who created this universe
Islamic arguments :
- the unity and the similarities between all the creatures : same creator.
- More than one God doesn't work : a God who needs another God as a partner to hold the creation is not a God (contradicts the caracteristics of a God)
- No other God "legally" claimed he is a God and the creator of the universe except Allah :
if there is another God, why didn't he show up and say it ? no logical reason for a God to not let us know he is a God.
- evidences in the quran (scientific facts about the creation) that no one can have knowledge about except the creator of the universe, meaning the quran is the word of Allah the creator of the universe.

B - The continuity of the message of islam and the same true religion brought by all the prophets.
Islamic arguments :
- the quran describes the life of many propherts and the same message they brought : to call for the true religion of Allah. The quran explains also how the followers of every prophet (Moses, Jesus, ..) diverted from the true religion of islam and made innovations in it (including shirk, bida'hs and lies) leading to the creation of fake religions.

C - The prophet-hood of Muhammad SAW
Islamic arguments :
The sirah (biography) of Muhammad PBUH, including his unique personality and his behaviour and the miraculous facts showed in his presence prooving his prophet-hood and the truth of what he said and did.
And the realization of many prophecies that the prophet PBUH talked about and that are still happening after his death.

D - The explantion of how we are created (where do we come from) and what we will become after our death (afterlife) and what is the purpose of our existence.


I did not find another religion that gives these clear and satisfying arguments and explanations about the universe and the creation and about our future.
That what I believe is the truth.
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Flame of Hope
03-05-2011, 12:51 AM
Originally Posted by marwen
no other god "legally" claimed he is a god and the creator of the universe except allah :
If there is another god, why didn't he show up and say it ? No logical reason for a god to not let us know he is a god.
awesome! :)
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Salahudeen
03-05-2011, 01:19 AM
I was present at an exorcism and saw the effect of the Qur'an recitation upon the posessed person. Also I read a article by non muslim scientists, they were talking about the wing of the fly containing some medicine or something can't remember now, and I remembered the hadith about fully submerging the fly in your food if you find one in it..
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Aprender
03-05-2011, 01:27 AM
Flame, I think this is a great thread you have here!

^wow salahudeen. Every time I hear of exorcism I think of the scary movies they make about them here in the U.S. Can't imagine what it would be like to be there in person...
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Flame of Hope
03-05-2011, 07:27 AM
I read an interesting book recently, posted on a forum which talks about something called Properties of Truth. And by knowing these properties, the characters in the story are able to find out how Islam alone is the truth. What got me was the explanation that Truth is ONE. Because God is also ONE. :)

To read the entire story: The Far-Off Event
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sister herb
03-05-2011, 08:46 AM
Originally Posted by Tyrion

Islam is one of the few faiths that actually doesn't encourage blind faith, and encourages you to seek knowledge to find the truth.
As Flame said before - people of other faiths can say the same thing, even atheists.
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karima
03-05-2011, 04:54 PM
salam aleikum

i just feel it in my heart. And everything the quran says i belive in. I cant explain it excactly but sudden things that happened in my life has increased my belief. For example when i was in mekka there was a lot of cats just outside the majid al harâm, but they never, not even ones came near the kaaba, eventhough they had a lot of opportunities. And also the birds in majid al harâm they just flew around only in the place of kabaa but not outside of it.

There is just so many things, that daily shows me that islam is the right religion.
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Flame of Hope
03-05-2011, 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by sister harb
As Flame said before - people of other faiths can say the same thing, even atheists.
People of other faiths do not really demand us to seek knowledge to find the truth. As far as I know, Islam is the only religion that demands its followers to seek knowledge and NOT follow it blindly.
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Eric H
03-06-2011, 07:44 AM
Greetings and peace be with you karima;

There is just so many things, that daily shows me that islam is the right religion
I believe that God chooses us, and gives us signs, so that we might have faith and trust in him. I have been on this forum for six years, and have sensed the profound faith that many of my Muslim brothers and sisters have.

Yet I have witnessed a number of signs that have also given me a profound and deep faith in Christianity. These signs come from the same God that gave you a deep faith through Islam, the same God hears all our prayers.

I guess God chooses whom he wills, and in the way that he wills, it seems to confound us.

Would life be so much easier for us, if we all believed the same, would we all get on together if we all believed the same?

In the spirit of searching for One God

Eric.
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sister herb
03-06-2011, 09:56 AM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you karima;



I believe that God chooses us, and gives us signs, so that we might have faith and trust in him. I have been on this forum for six years, and have sensed the profound faith that many of my Muslim brothers and sisters have.

Yet I have witnessed a number of signs that have also given me a profound and deep faith in Christianity. These signs come from the same God that gave you a deep faith through Islam, the same God hears all our prayers.

I guess God chooses whom he wills, and in the way that he wills, it seems to confound us.

Would life be so much easier for us, if we all believed the same, would we all get on together if we all believed the same?

In the spirit of searching for One God

Eric.
Very well said, my brother in humanity.

:statisfie
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Ummu Sufyaan
03-06-2011, 10:08 AM
:sl:
Originally Posted by Flame
A question for both revert Muslims and born Muslims. How do you know that Islam is the truth?
because allah guided me. alhamdulillah.
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Zuzubu
03-06-2011, 10:19 AM
Because the light shows me the truth.

W/salam. =)
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- Qatada -
03-06-2011, 10:54 AM
:salamext:


The Linguistic Miracle of the Quran :) linguisticmiracle.com
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Insaanah
03-06-2011, 11:25 AM
Because the concept of God in Islam is clear, simple and logical. It resonates with the heart. No mental acrobatics required. No associates in Allah's Divinity, and no denying of Allah either.

And because it is the religion of all the Prophets (peace be upon them) from the beginning of time. There is acceptance of ALL the Prophets and Messengers of Allah as the noblest and purest of humanity that ever walked the face of the earth. No rejection of any of them, nor elevation of any of them to divine, nor any discrimination against them. All are believed in and honoured.

And because the Qur'an has been preserved word for word. No human author, and no versions.
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MustafaMc
03-06-2011, 12:38 PM
I choose to believe that Islam is true. The strength of my faith can be said to be knowledge. There are many things that were similar to what I already believed as a Christian including God, resurrection, Heaven and Hell, angels, Holy books, and prophets. When I first read the ayah in the Quran about Jesus and other people that I knew from the Bible, I could see a lot of similarity, but also a lot of differences, particularly about Jesus (as) not being the Son of God. At first I disbelieved in what the Quran said, but I kept reading and reached a point where I realized that the Quran made more logical sense than what I believed as a Christian. Many years later I read the book, "The Sealed Nectar" about Prophet Muhammad (saaws) and I was amazed at the simplicity of his life and the struggle he endured to establish the worship of One God. Knowing his story is another thing that strengthened my faith that Islam is the Truth.
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Flame of Hope
03-06-2011, 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Yet I have witnessed a number of signs that have also given me a profound and deep faith in Christianity. These signs come from the same God that gave you a deep faith through Islam, the same God hears all our prayers.
Would you say that the God who sent Jesus (as) is different from the God who sent Muhammad (saws)? If you say "the same God hears all our prayers", then there cannot be a different God. The God who sent Jesus (as) is the same God who sent Prophet Muhammad (saws). Now, you either believe this or you don't.

If you believe that your God is the same God who sent Prophet Muhammad (saws) then it becomes obligatory on you to believe whatever Prophet Muhammad (saws) brought. If you claim that you are a true believer in God, then how can you reject Prophet Muhammad (saws)?

But should you accept him, then, well.....welcome to Islam. :)
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Perseveranze
03-06-2011, 11:31 PM
Asalaamu Alaikum,

Islam actually has proof in the Quran and the life of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh). If you think deeply about things, you can't deny it. Here's just one of many thought provoking quotes that make you think really hard about this -

"Is it possible for a person known to possess an upright and unblemished character, to suddenly turn ‘an impostor’ and claim to be the Prophet of God?”.

OR

Up to the age of forty, Muhammad (p) was not known as a statesman, a preacher or an orator. He was never seen discussing the principles of metaphysics, ethics, law, politics, economics or sociology. No doubt he possessed an excellent character and charming manners and was known to be highly cultured. Yet there was nothing so deeply striking and so radically extraordinary in him that would make men expect something great and revolutionary from him in the future. But when he came out of the Cave of Hira, with a new message, he was completely transformed.

^Lol, just a random crazy imposter came out of nowhere and changed civilization forever right?

Just common sense is enough for someone who studies the life of the Prophet(pbuh) to know his legitimacy.
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Woodrow
03-07-2011, 02:23 AM
:sl:

I did not find Islam. Islam found me. I fought accepting Islam for the first 65 years of my life and at one time was a very pious Christian. (Catholic to Start later Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of Christ, and a few others) I long thought Christianity had the right path to heaven and that if I found any error it was either because I misunderstood or I had not found the "correct" denomination and was following misguided people. I had and still have a very deep love for Jesus(as) and know his message was true. The problem was to find the religion that actually taught the message Jesus(as) taught. I finally found it in Islam and upon seeing that Jesus(as) was a true Prophet(PBUH) and not a god I was set free and could love Jesus(as) the Prophet(PBUH) and not a false image I had of him.

In many ways Christianity and my Love for Jesus(as) helped lead me to Islam.

Some more tangible reasons are the Qur'an itself. Linguistics has always been a love of mine and I have long had a fascination with the Semitic Languages. The more I learned the Arabic of the Qur'an the more convinced I became that a human could not have written it.

My reason for finally coming to accepting Islam can be found in my reversion. The short condensed version of it can be found in the stories of Reverts thread.
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Ummu Sufyaan
03-07-2011, 08:01 AM
How do you know that Islam is the truth?
my other answer to this question would be that when i talk to Allah (in form of dua), He responds and answers to what i asked for. Its like when you talk to a person, you know they are there and are listening because they respond to what you say....they wouldn't respond if they weren't there or werent listening.
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Eric H
03-07-2011, 10:19 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Ummu Sufyaan;

my other answer to this question would be that when i talk to Allah (in form of dua), He responds and answers to what i asked for. Its like when you talk to a person, you know they are there and are listening because they respond to what you say....they wouldn't respond if they weren't there or werent listening
This is why I have a great respect for Muslims because I sincerely believe that God answers their prayers too. Likewise, I witness how God responds to my prayers and other Christians, it does not seam to make sense to us.

So where do we go from here?

Blessings and peace be with you all

Eric
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sister herb
03-07-2011, 11:40 AM
Originally Posted by Eric H
This is why I have a great respect for Muslims because I sincerely believe that God answers their prayers too. Likewise, I witness how God responds to my prayers and other Christians, it does not seam to make sense to us.

So where do we go from here?

Blessings and peace be with you all

Eric
This is why I respect some Christians so much; some muslims may not like my words but I believe God/Allah is same to as all, we just respect Him differently.

I feel Eric my brother in humanity (not in islam, that is different)

Here is other thing; I am first aid medical trained by Red Cross. If anyone need help I have to give it, religion or gender or race is just same. Most important is humanity.

:D
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Eric H
03-07-2011, 12:06 PM
Greetings and peace be with you sister harb;

I feel Eric my brother in humanity (not in islam, that is different)
Only God, Allah can explain these differences, and somehow like your first aid work, we need to overcome the barriers in our own heart, indeed we are all brothers and sisters together somehow.

Every blessing sister in humanity,

Eric
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Ali Mujahidin
03-07-2011, 03:36 PM
I asked myself this very same question when I embraced Islam very many years ago. And this is the answer I found.

Islam is the only religion that I know of which has its main source of reference viz the Quran still being read in the original language that was first used when it was originally taught to its earliest followers. I am still a very long way from being proficient in Arabic but I know for sure that when I finally can read the Quran with proper understanding of its language, I will be reading the same words that the Holy Prophet said to the Sahabah. This is very important to me because I know, as a language teacher, that anything that is translated will never be able to retain the true meaning of the original.

In the meantime, with each passing day, I try my best to practice Islam more and more. And with each new (new to me, that is) practice, I find that Islam is even more fantastic than I have ever thought it to be.
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Flame of Hope
03-07-2011, 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
my other answer to this question would be that when i talk to Allah (in form of dua), He responds and answers to what i asked for. Its like when you talk to a person, you know they are there and are listening because they respond to what you say....they wouldn't respond if they weren't there or werent listening.
If God has been giving you what you asked for, that is not necessarily a good thing. And if this is the reason why you think Islam is the truth, then would you stop believing in Allah if He does not respond to your prayers or give you what you are asking for?
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Flame of Hope
03-07-2011, 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by Eric H
This is why I have a great respect for Muslims because I sincerely believe that God answers their prayers too. Likewise, I witness how God responds to my prayers and other Christians, it does not seam to make sense to us.

So where do we go from here?
God answers the prayers of all people irrespective of their religion. But when people get whatever they ask, it doesn't necessarily mean that their belief in their religion is right.

In Islam, there is much good in unanswered prayers. For the true Muslim, everything is good. In fact, the more the calamities, hardships and difficulties, the better it is for a Muslim. Those who stand firm on the path despite calamities sent their way prove how true they are to their belief in the true God, who is, by the way known as The Just and who wrongs not a single one of His creatures.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "When Allah desires good for someone, He tries him with hardships." (Sahîh al-Bukhârî)
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Ummu Sufyaan
03-08-2011, 04:09 AM
Originally Posted by Flame
If God has been giving you what you asked for, that is not necessarily a good thing.
ok, but what's that got to do with anything? its not of any relevance to what i was saying .

And if this is the reason why you think Islam is the truth, then would you stop believing in Allah if He does not respond to your prayers or give you what you are asking for?
oh dear :hmm: 1) i didn't say this was the reason why i believe Islam is the truth, it was merely an example. 2) no i wouldn't stop believing reason being...well if you understood my post, then you'll see why :hiding:
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Rabi Mansur
03-08-2011, 04:21 AM
For me it just came together. Many of the problems I had with Christianity were answered by the Qur'an. It was consistent with a lot of the things I had discovered beforehand. It was monotheistic in a way I could appreciate. It was logical and held the prophets in high esteem. I'm still learning about the linguistic miracle of the Qur'an as my Arabic is still very elementary. It was the religion of Abraham (pbuh).

Islam brought peace to my soul. It was the capstone to the Torah and Injeel. :statisfie
:wa:
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Ali Mujahidin
03-08-2011, 04:28 AM
Seriously though, Islam is not something that is accepted through logical thinking. For me, I embraced Islam because I felt inspired to do so. And it is through the practice of Islam that the truth is revealed. To put it another way: the test of the pudding is in the eating. No amount of explanation will be able to tell you what the pudding tastes like. You can only find out when you eat it yourself.
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MustafaMc
03-08-2011, 05:00 AM
For myself, it was through logical thinking, to an extent, as Allah (swt) guided me to see things differently. I saw where the Quran's teaching about the nature of Jesus (as) being distinct from Allah (swt) was more logical than the Bible's teaching of Jesus (as) being the 'only begotten Son of God'. To this day, no Christian can explain to me in what sense of the word Jesus is God's 'Son'. In contrast, I can understand how Jesus was the Servant and Messenger of Allah.
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Flame of Hope
03-08-2011, 05:16 AM
Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
oh dear :hmm: 1) i didn't say this was the reason why i believe Islam is the truth, it was merely an example. 2) no i wouldn't stop believing reason being...well if you understood my post, then you'll see why :hiding:
I'm sorry if I caused you to feel uncomfortable, respected sister. imsad

But you did see what others had to say after your post. Christians and followers of other religions believe their concept of God has to be correct as well because He too answers their prayers. So what is it about Islam that is different? I guess that's the main question I wanted to ask.
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Ali Mujahidin
03-08-2011, 06:50 AM
Originally Posted by Flame
So what is it about Islam that is different? I guess that's the main question I wanted to ask.

Let me share what I truly believe to be the difference.

1. Islam is complete. There is no need to modify or add anything to it.
2. Islam covers every aspect of life here and in the hereafter. If you cannot find the answer in Islam, it's just because you are not looking in the right place.
3. Islam is simple enough to be practiced by illiterate country folks and yet is profound and complex enough to intrigue philosophers with the highest level of intellectual wisdom.

If you would rephrase your question to focus on any one particular aspect of religious practice, I will try my best to answer specifically.
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Flame of Hope
03-08-2011, 06:59 AM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
If you would rephrase your question to focus on any one particular aspect of religious practice, I will try my best to answer specifically.
Alright. In what way does Islam differ from other religions regarding God? And how can we be sure that Islam's concept of God is the correct one?
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Ummu Sufyaan
03-08-2011, 07:55 AM
I'm sorry if I caused you to feel uncomfortable, respected sister.
hmmm, i may be mistaken, but something tells me you aren't..

But you did see what others had to say after your post. Christians and followers of other religions believe their concept of God has to be correct as well because He too answers their prayers.
i saw what you had to say after my post. i didnt take anyone else's answers to be of any relevance/connection to my reply. im not sure how and why you did.

So what is it about Islam that is different? I guess that's the main question I wanted to ask.
well since that ive made my statement clear, i guess its up to intelligent minds to figure it out.
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Tyrion
03-08-2011, 08:03 AM
Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
hmmm, i may be mistaken, but something tells me you aren't..


i saw what you had to say after my post. i didnt take anyone else's answers to be of any relevance/connection to my reply. im not sure how and why you did.


well since that ive made my statement clear, i guess its up to intelligent minds to figure it out.
Uhmm, why are you being so rude? Flame actually apologized to you (when she didn't even need to) and here you are acting like this...

Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
And if this is the reason why you think Islam is the truth, then would you stop believing in Allah if He does not respond to your prayers or give you what you are asking for?
oh dear 1) i didn't say this was the reason why i believe Islam is the truth, it was merely an example. 2) no i wouldn't stop believing reason being...well if you understood my post, then you'll see why
That's actually exactly what you said... The title of this thread (and the question you were answering) is "how do you know Islam is the truth"... Want proof? Here's your post:
Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
How do you know that Islam is the truth?
my other answer to this question would be that when i talk to Allah (in form of dua), He responds and answers to what i asked for. Its like when you talk to a person, you know they are there and are listening because they respond to what you say....they wouldn't respond if they weren't there or werent listening.
If Flame read your post the wrong way, then it would be your fault for not being clear... Also, you shouldn't doubt her sincerity in her apology... Calm down.
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Ali Mujahidin
03-08-2011, 08:45 AM
Originally Posted by Flame
Alright. In what way does Islam differ from other religions regarding God? And how can we be sure that Islam's concept of God is the correct one?

Good question. Let me tell you a little story.

When I still a fresh convert to Islam, I took part in an introductory course in Islam. The lecturer was the late Mufti of the State of Kelantan in Malaysia, Haji Ismail. To illustrate the uniqueness of Allah, he told the class:

"One morning, in a rural village, an old man got up very early, took up a big piece of firewood and went stalking angrily through the hamlet. Everyone who saw him was frightened by his fierce demeanor and kept out of his way. Finally, one innocent child saw him and asked with simple candour,

'Atuk (courteous Malay term for old man), where are you going?'

To which the old man replied,

'If I meet God, I am going to kill him.'

Then Haji Ismail asked the class whether the old man was mad or what."

Offhand, the angry old man might have seemed to be demented, to say the least. On closer look, he was actually right. If anything that we can perceive with our senses claims to be God, then it is perfectly alright to kill it. Why? The reason is that Allah is beyond our mortal senses. Therefor anything which we can see, hear, taste, smell or touch cannot be Allah.

This is the unique difference between the concept of God in Islam as compared to other religions. We learn about the ninety-nine names of Allah which enumerate the qualities of Allah but, very definitely, Allah is not limited to just ninety-nine names or qualities. In Islam, we know for a fact that Allah does not appear in a mortal manifestation. This is stated very clearly in Al-Ikhlas, the 112th Surah. Our mortal senses are too feeble to perceive Allah. So, you may ask, how do we even know there is Allah, in the first place?

The answer is very simple. We came from Allah. We are created by Allah. Allah has put into us the innate ability to know Allah. So, you may ask again, why is it that so many people does not accept the existence of Allah? The answer, again, is very simple. It is not that those people do not know Allah but they have allowed their earthly desires to deny the truth. To accept Allah is to accept the fact that they are not really all that great, as compared to Allah. They cannot accept the plain truth that their intellect is wanting and their wisdom is faulty. In simple terms, they are getting too big for their boots.

Does that then mean to accept Allah is to be stupid? The truth is the exact opposite. To accept Allah is to accept the truth that we were created by the Almighty without Comparison. To practice Islam in totality is to follow the original Operating Manual, so to say. Of course, we will succeed in this life and the hereafter by following the infallible Guide Book viz the Holy Quran.

Hope this is useful. Insha Allah.
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Ummu Sufyaan
03-08-2011, 09:48 AM
Uhmm, why are you being so rude? Flame actually apologized to you (when she didn't even need to) and here you are acting like this...
because i was bored. /end sarcasm. how is this any of your concern?


If Flame read your post the wrong way, then it would be your fault for not being clear... Also, you shouldn't doubt her sincerity in her apology... Calm down.
hmm, well if you actually bothered to read the other part of my quote where you highlighted, you would have seen the part where i said "it was merely an example." meaning there could be 100 other reasons why i believe in Islam, what i said being one (out of many) examples.

second, if there was a problem, then why didn't she pick up on it? it took someone else to do that.

thirdly, where do you get off telling me not to question others' sincerity then have the audacity to tell me to calm down? isnt this "questioning" me by jumping to the conclusion that i wasn't calm?
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GuestFellow
03-08-2011, 12:42 PM
Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
because i was bored. /end sarcasm. how is this any of your concern?
Salaam,

This is an open forum and we can respond to other member's post.
Reply

Flame of Hope
03-08-2011, 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
'If I meet God, I am going to kill him.'
Jazakallah khair, brother for a fresh new perspective. :)
Reply

Ali Mujahidin
03-08-2011, 03:07 PM
Originally Posted by
Jazakallah khair, brother for a fresh new perspective.

No problem, sister. Hope you read the whole post and not just the line you quoted.
Reply

Flame of Hope
03-08-2011, 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
hmm, well if you actually bothered to read the other part of my quote where you highlighted, you would have seen the part where i said "it was merely an example." meaning there could be 100 other reasons why i believe in Islam, what i said being one (out of many) examples.
I'm interested in all the reasons you can provide, sister. There is something called passive belief, where no use of mind is required. Such belief is of no use to us in the Hereafter because it is devoid of iman. When it's time for us to cross the Bridge across Hell, it will be our iman that comes to our rescue. Those with no iman will be in Hell, no matter how many times you may have uttered the shahadah. Iman has to do with yaqeen or conviction. And conviction won't enter your heart unless you use your mind and intelligence to know the truth. So do provide all your reasons that has got you so convinced that Islam is the truth. If you can't provide your reasons, that's fine. But I am hoping that at least it will cause you to look further into the matter and be open to the reasons given by other brothers and sisters in this forum. Perhaps that might instill more iman in your heart and be of benefit to you in the Hereafter.
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Flame of Hope
03-08-2011, 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
No problem, sister. Hope you read the whole post and not just the line you quoted.
Of course, respected brother. I did read the whole post. But those words, "If I meet God, I am going to kill him," stood out. It was very interesting. :D You have shown that God cannot be killed or destroyed.

You spoke of God's attributes in your post. Perhaps you could tell us why you are convinced that God is One.
Reply

piXie
03-08-2011, 03:51 PM
Assalaamu alaikum, I just wanted to post this article as its very relevent to the Question being asked here. I hope those who read it find it beneficial. Sorry I can't post the link as I am still a limited member..




The True Religion
by Dr. A. A. Bilal Philips (PhD. in Theology, Wales)

Which is the True Religion of God?

Each person is born in a circumstance which is not of his own choosing. The religion of his family or the ideology of the state is thrust upon him from the very beginning of his existence in this world. By the time he reaches his teens, he is usually fully brain-washed into believing that the beliefs of his particular society are the correct beliefs that everyone should have. However, when some people mature and are exposed to other belief-systems, they begin to question the validity of their own beliefs. The seekers of truth often reach a point of confusion upon realizing that each and every religion, sect, ideology and philosophy claims to be the one and only correct way for man. Indeed they all encourage people to good. So, which one is right? They cannot all be right since each claims all others to be wrong. Then how does the seeker of truth choose the right way?


God gave us all minds and intellects to enable us to make this crucial decision. It is the most important decision in the life of a human being. Upon it depends his future. Consequently, each and every one of us must examine dispassionately the evidence presented and choose what appears to be right until further evidence arises.


Like every other religion or philosophy, Islam also claims to be the one and only true way to God. In this respect it is no different from other systems. This booklet intends to provide some evidence for the validity of that claim. However, it must always be kept in mind that one can only determine the true path by putting aside emotions and prejudices, which often blind us to reality. Then, and only then, will we be able to use our God-given intelligence and make a rational and correct decision.


There are several arguments which may be advanced to support Islam's claim to be the true religion of God. The following are only three of the most obvious. The first argument is based on the Divine origin of the names of the religion and the comprehensiveness of its meaning. The second deals with the unique and uncomplicated teachings concerning the relationship between God, man, and creation. The third argument derives from the fact that Islam is universally attainable by all men at all times. These are the three basic components of what logic and reason dictate necessary for a religion to be considered the true religion of God. The following pages will develop these concepts in some detail.


The Religion's Name

The first thing that one should know and clearly understand about Islam is what the word "Islam" itself means. The Arabic word "Islam" means the submission or surrender of one's will to the only true God, known in Arabic as "Allah". One who submits his will to God is termed in Arabic a "Muslim". The religion of Islam is not named after a person or people, nor was it decided by a later generation of man, as in the case of Christianity which was named after Jesus Christ (p), Buddhism after Gautama Buddha, Confucianism after Confucius, Marxism after Karl Marx, Judaism after the tribe of Judah, and Hinduism after the Hindus. Islam (submission to the will of God) is the religion which was given to Adam (p), the first man and the first prophet of God, and it was the religion of all the prophets sent by Allah to mankind. Further, its name was chosen by God Himself and clearly mentioned in the final scripture which He revealed to man. In the final revelation, called the Qur'an in Arabic, Allah states the following:
"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and I have chosen for you Islam as you religion." (Qur'an 5:3)
"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to God), never will it be accepted of him." (Qur'an 3:85)
Hence, Islam does not claim to be a new religion brought by Prophet Muhammad (p) into Arabia in the seventh century, but rather to be a re-expression in its final form of the true religion of Almighty God, Allah, as it was originally revealed to Adam (p) and subsequent prophets.


At this point we might comment briefly on two other religions that claim to be the true path. Nowhere in the Bible will you find God revealing to Prophet Moses' (p) people or their descendants that their religion is called Judaism, or to the followers of Christ (p) that their religion is called Christianity. In other words, the names "Judaism" and "Christianity" had no divine origin or approval. It was not until long after his departure that the name "Christianity" was given to Jesus' (p) religion.



What, then, was Jesus' (p) religion in actual fact, as distinct from its name? His religion was reflected in his teachings, which he urged his followers to accept as guiding principles in their relationship with God. In Islam, Jesus (p) is a prophet sent by Allah and his Arabic name is Eesa. Like the prophets before him, he called upon the people to surrender their will to the will of God (which is what Islam stands for). For example, in the New Testament, it is stated that Jesus (p) taught his followers to pray to God as follows:
"Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your Name, may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven." (Luke 11:2; Matt. 6:9-10)
This concept was emphasized by Jesus (p) in a number of his statements recorded in the Gospels. He taught, for example, that only those who submitted would inherit Paradise.


Jesus (p) also pointed out that he himself submitted to the will of God.
"None of those who call me 'Lord' will enter the kingdom of God, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven." (Matt. 7:21)
"I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I hear and my judgment is honest because I am not seeking my own will but the will of Him Who sent me." (John 5:30)
There are many reports in the Gospels which show that Jesus (p) made it clear to his followers that he was not the one true God. For example, when speaking about the final Hour, he said:
"No one knows about the Day or Hour, not even the angels in heaven, not the son, but only the Father." (Mark 13:32)
Thus, Jesus (p) like the prophets before him and the one who came after him, taught the religion of Islam: submission to the will of the One true God.


God and Creation


Since the total submission of one's will to God represents the essence of worship, the basic message of God's divine religion, Islam, is the worship of God alone. It also requires the avoidance of worship directed to any person, place or thing other than God. Since everything other than God, the Creator of all things, is God's creation, it may be said that Islam, in essence, calls man away from worship of creation and invites him to worship only his Creator. He is the only one deserving of man's worship, because it is only by His will that prayers are answered.


Accordingly, if a man prays to a tree and his prayers are answered, it is not the tree that answered his prayers but God, Who allows the circumstances prayed for to take place. One might say, "That is obvious"; however, to tree-worshipers, it might not be so.



Similarly, prayers to Jesus (p), Buddha, Krishna, St. Christopher, St. Jude, or even to Muhammad (p), are not answered by them, but are answered by God. Jesus (p) did not tell his followers to worship him but to worship God, as the Qur'an states:
"And behold! Allah will say: 'O Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say to men, worship me and my mother as gods besides Allah?'; He will say: 'Glory to you, I could never say what I had no right (to say)'" (Qur'an 5:116)
Nor did Jesus (p) worship himself when he worshiped, but rather he worshiped God. And Jesus (p) was reported in the Gospels to have said:
"It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.'" (Luke 4:8)
The basic principle is contained in the opening chapter of the Qur'an, known as Surah al-Fatihah, verse 4:
"You alone do we worship and from you alone do we seek help."
Elsewhere in the final book of revelation, the Qur'an, God also said:
"And your Lord says: 'Call on Me and I will answer your (prayer).'" (Qur'an 40:60)
It is worth emphasizing that the basic message of Islam (namely, the worship of God alone) also proclaims that God and His creation are distinctly different entities. God is neither equal to His creation nor a part of it, nor is His creation equal to Him or a part of Him.
This might seem obvious, but man's worship of creation, instead of the Creator, is to a large degree based on ignorance, or neglect, of this concept. It is the belief that the essence of God is everywhere in His creation or that His divine being is or was present in some parts of His creation, which has provided justification for the worship of God's creation and naming it the worship of God. However, the message of Islam, as brought by the prophets of God, is to worship only God and to avoid the worship of His creation either directly or indirectly.


In the Qur'an, God clearly states:
"For We assuredly sent amongst every people a prophet, with the command: Worship Me and avoid false gods." (Qur'an 16:36)
When idol worshipers are questioned as to why they bow down to idols created by men, the invariable reply is that they are not actually worshiping the stone image, but God Who is present within it. They claim that the stone idol is only a focal point for God's essence and is not in itself God! One who has accepted the concept of God being present in any way within His creation will be obliged to accept this argument for idolatry. Whereas, one who understands the basic message of Islam and its implications would never agree to idolatry no matter how it is rationalized.


Those who have claimed divinity for themselves down through the ages have often based their claims on the mistaken belief that God is present in man. Taking one step further, they claim that God is more present in them than the rest of us, and that other humans should therefore submit to them and worship them as God in person or as God concentrated within their persons. Similarly, those who have asserted the godhood of others after their deaths have found fertile ground among those who accept the false belief of God's presence in man.


It should be abundantly clear by now that one who has grasped the basic message of Islam and its implications could never agree to worship another human being under any circumstance. God's religion, in essence, is a clear call to the worship of the Creator and the rejection of creation-worship in any form. This is the meaning of the motto of Islam:
Laa ilaaha illaa Allah" (there is no god but Allah)
The sincere declaration of this phrase and the acceptance of prophethood automatically brings one within the fold of Islam, and sincere belief in it guarrantees one Paradise. Thus, the final Prophet of Islam (p) is reported to have said:
"Any one who says 'There is no god but Allah', and dies holding that (belief) will enter Paradise."
Belief in this declaration of faith requires that one submit his/her will to God in the way taught by the prophets of God. It also requires the believer to give up the worship of false gods.


The Message of False Religions


There are so many sects, cults, religions, philosophies, and movements in the world, all which claim to be the right way or the only true path to God! How can one determine which one is correct or whether, in fact, all are correct? One method by which the answer can be found is to clear away the superficial differences in the teachings of the various claimants to the ultimate truth, and identify the central object of worship upon which they call, directly or indirectly. False religions all have in common one basic concept with regard to God: they either claim that all men are gods, or that specific men were God, or that nature is God, or that God is a figment of man's imagination.


Thus, it may be stated that the basic message of false religion is that God may be worshiped in the form of His creation. False religions invite man to the worship of creation by calling the creation or some aspect of it God. For example, prophet Jesus (p) invited his followers to worship God, but those who claim to be Jesus' followers today call people to worship Jesus (p), claiming that he was God.
Buddha was a reformer who introduced a number of humanistic principles in the religion of India. He did not claim to be God, nor did he suggest to his followers that he be an object of worship. Yet today most Buddhists who are to be found outside of India have taken him to be God and they prostrate themselves to idols made in their perception of his likeness.


By using the principle of identifying the object of worship, we can easily detect false religions and the contrived nature of their origin. As God said in the Qur'an:
"That which you worship besides Him are only names and you and your forefathers have invented for which Allah has sent down no authority; the command belongs only to Allah: He has command that you worship Him; that is the right religion, but most men do not understand." (Qur'an 12:40)
It may be argued that all religions teach good things, so why should it matter which one we follow? The reply is that all false religions teach the greatest evil: the worship of creation. Creation-worship is the greatest sin that man can commit because it contradicts the very purpose of His creation. Man was created to worship God alone as Allah has explicitly stated in the Qur'an:
"I have only created jinns and men, that they may worship Me." (Qur'an 51:56)
Consequently, the worship of creation, which is the essence of idolatry, is the only unforgivable sin. One who dies in this state of idolatry has sealed his fate in the next life. This is not an option, but a revealed fact stated by God in His final revelation to man:
"Verily Allah will not forgive the joining of partners with Him, but He may forgive (sins) less than that for whomsoever He wishes." (Qur'an 4:48,116)

Universality of God's Religion


Since the consequences of following a false religion are so grave, the true religion of God must have been universally understandable and universally attainable in the past and it must continue eternally to be understandable and attainable throughout the entire world. In other words, the true religion of God cannot be confined to any one people, place, or period of time. Nor is it logical that such a religion should impose conditions that have nothing to do with the relationship of man with God, such as baptism, or belief in man as a savior, or an intermediary. Within the central principle of Islam and its definition (the surrender of one's will to God) lie the roots of Islam's universality. Whenever man comes to the realization that God is one and distinct from His creation, and submits himself to God, he becomes a Muslim in body and spirit and is eligible for paradise.


Consequently, anyone at any time in the most remote regions of the world can become Muslim, a follower of God's religion, Islam, be merely rejecting the worship of creation and turning to God alone. It should be noted, however, that in order to actually submit to God's will, one must continually choose between right and wrong. Indeed, man is endowed by God with the power not only to distinguish right from wrong but also to choose between them. These God-given powers carry with them an important responsibility, namely, that man is answerable to God for the choices he makes. It follows, then, that man should try his utmost to do good and avoid evil. These concepts are expressed in the final revelation as follows:
"Verily, those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians (angel-and-star worshipers) - any of these who believe in Allah and the Last Day and work righteousness shall have their reward with their Lord. They will not be overcome by fear or grief." (Qur'an 2:62)
If, for whatever reason, they fail to accept the final message after it has been clearly explained to them, they will be in grave danger. The last Prophet said:
"Whoever among the Christians and Jews hears of me but does not affirm his belief in what I brought and dies in that state will be among the inhabitants of Hell." (Sahih Muslim [English Translation], Vol.1 P.91 No.284)

Recognition of God


The question which arises here is: How can all people be expected to believe in the one true God, given their varying backgrounds, societies and cultures? For people to be held responsible for worshipping the one true God, they all need to have access to knowledge of him. The final revelation teaches that all human beings have the recognition of the one true God imprinted on their souls as a part of their very nature with which they are created.


In the seventh chapter of the Qur'an (Al-A'raaf, verses 172-173),God explained that when He created Adam He caused all of Adam's descentants to come into existence and He took a pledge from them saying:
"'Am I not your Lord?' To which they all replied, 'Yes, we testify to it.'"
Allah then explained why He had all of mankind bear witness that He is their creator and the only true God worthy of worship. He said:
"That was in case you (mankind) should say on the Day of Resurrection, 'Verily we were unaware of all this.'" (Qur'an 7:172)
That is to say, we cannot claim on that Day that we had no idea that Allah was our God and that no one told us that we were supposed to worship Allah alone. Allah went on to further explain that:
"It was also in case you should say, 'Certainly it was our ancestors who made partners (with Allah) and we are only their descendants; will You then destroy us for what those liars did?'" (Qur'an 7:173)
Thus, every child is born with a natural belief in God and an in-born inclination to worship Him alone. This in-born belief and inclination is called in Arabic the "Fitrah".
The Prophet Muhammad reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in the right religion, but devils made them go astray." The Prophet also said, "Each child is born in a state of Fitrah. Then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian." If the child were left alone, he would worship God in his own way, but all children are affected by the environment. So, just as the child submits to the physical laws which Allah has imposed on nature, in the same way his soul also submits naturally to the fact that Allah is his Lord and Creator. But, if his parents try to make him follow a different path, the child is not strong enough in the early stages of his life to resist or oppose the will of his parents. In such cases, the religion which the child follows is one of custom and upbringing, and God does not hold him to account or punish him for his religion up to a certain stage of his life.


The Signs of God


Throughout people's lives, from childhood until the time they die, signs of the one and only true God are shown to them in all regions of the earth and in their own souls, until it becomes clear that there is only one true God (Allah). God says in the Qur'an:
"We will show them our signs in the furthest regions (of the earth) and in their souls, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth." (Qur'an 41:53)
The following is an example of God revealing by a sign to one man the error of his idol-worship. In the south-eastern region of the Amazon jungle in Brazil, South America, a primitive tribe erected a new hut to house their man-idol Skwatch, representing the supreme God of all creation. The following day a young man entered the hut to pay homage to the God, and while he was in prostration to what he had been taught was his Creator and Sustainer, a mangy old flea-ridden dog slunk into the hut. The young man looked up in time to see the dog lift his hind leg and pass urine on the idol. Outraged, the youth chased the dog out of the temple, but when his rage died down he realized that the idol could not be the Lord of the Universe. God must be elsewhere, he concluded. As strange as it may seem, the dog urinating on the idol was a sign from God for that young man. This sign contained the divine message that what he was worshiping was false. It liberated him from slavishly following his traditionally learned worship of a false god. As a result, this man was given a choice: either to seek the true God or to continue in the error of his ways.
Allah mentions Prophet Abraham's quest for God as an example of how those who follow His signs will be rightly guided:
"So also did We show Abraham the power and the Laws of the heavens and the earth that he might (with understanding) have certitude. When the night covered him over, he saw a star. He said: 'This is my Lord.' But when it set, he said: 'I love not those that set.'
When he saw the moon rising in splendor, he said: 'This is my Lord.' But when the moon set, he said: 'Unless my Lord guide me, I shall surely be among those who go astray.'
When he saw the rising sun in splendor, he said:
'This is my Lord, this is the greatest (of all).' But when the sun set, he said: 'O my people! I am indeed free from your (guilt) of giving partners to Allah.
For me, I have set my face, firmly and truly, towards Him Who created the heavens and the earth, and never shall I give partners to Allah.'" (Qur'an 6:75-79)
As was mentioned earlier, prophets have been sent to every nation and tribe to support man's natural belief in God and man's in-born inclination to worship Him, as well as to reinforce the divine truth in the daily signs revealed by God. Although much of these prophets' teachings became distorted, portions revealing their God-inspired messages have remained untainted and have served to guide mankind in the choice between right and wrong. The influence of God-inspired messages down through the ages can be seen in the "Ten Commandments" of Judaisn's Torah which were later adopted into Christianity's teachings, as well as in the existence of laws against murder, stealing and adultery in most societies throughout the ancient and modern world.
As a result of God's signs to mankind through the ages combined with His revelation through His prophets, all mankind has been given a chance to recognize the one and only true God.
Consequently, every soul will be held accountable for its belief in God and its acceptance of the true religion of God, namely Islam, which means total submission to the will of Allah.


Conclusion


The preceding presentation has demonstrated that the name of the religion of Islam expresses Islam's most central principle, submission to God, and that the name "Islam" was chosen not by man, but by God, according to the holy scriptures of Islam. It has also been shown that Islam alone teaches the uniqueness of God and His attributes and enjoins the worship of God alone without intermediaries. Finally, due to the divinely instilled inclination of man to worship God and the signs revealed by God throughout the ages to each individual, Islam may be achieved by all men at all times.
In short, the significance of the name Islam (submission to God), is Islam's fundamental acknowledgement of the uniqueness of God and Islam's accessibility to all mankind at all times convincingly support Islam's claim that from the beginning of time in whatever language it was expressed, Islam alone has been and will be the true religion of God.
In conclusion we ask Allah, the Exalted, to keep us on the right path to which He has guided us, and to bestow on us His blessings and mercy, for He is indeed the Most-Merciful. Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds, and peace and blessings be on Prophet Muhammad and all the prophets of God and their righteous followers.
Reply

piXie
03-08-2011, 03:53 PM
Btw Good thread, very thought provoking
Reply

Ali Mujahidin
03-09-2011, 08:44 AM
Originally Posted by
You spoke of God's attributes in your post. Perhaps you could tell us why you are convinced that God is One.

Oh dear, now you are really making me do some really deep soul-searching. Here's what I have dredged up so far.

For starters, Allah is One for the very simple reason that Allah said so. Many years ago - better make that very, very many years ago - when I was actively involved in giving talks to non-Muslim Chinese about Islam (me being Chinese-speaking) on a daily basis, my mentor, Haji Subky Latiff, told me not to elaborate on the scientific reasons why eating pork is forbidden in Islam. He told me to just say that we don't eat pork because Allah said not to. Otherwise I may be hard put to answer how billions of Chinese had been eating pork safely for thousands of years. Good advice, don't you think?

After accepting the truth that Allah is One, I now begin to see why it is so. Plurality would mean confusion. No two entities can be exactly the same. So far, as I try my best to practice Islam as closely as humanly possible, I do not find any confusion in Islam. Therefor Allah must be One and only One. QED

Hope that is useful. If need be, I will try to elaborate further. Insha Allah.
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Flame of Hope
03-09-2011, 05:02 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
For starters, Allah is One for the very simple reason that Allah said so.
I suppose you are referring to the Qur'an then. First of all, you would have to accept the Qur'an to be Allah's Word before you believe everything stated in it and take it as the Final Authority for reference. So, I guess my next question to you would be how can you be so sure that the Qur'an is truly God's Word?
Reply

Ali Mujahidin
03-10-2011, 01:54 AM
Originally Posted by
So, I guess my next question to you would be how can you be so sure that the Qur'an is truly God's Word?
My dear sister Flame, I thank you sincerely for making me think this hard about what I have always taken for granted. So here is my feeble attempt at explaining something which is properly the work of learned scholars.

Let's try to work this out by way of elimination.

If the Quran is a work of man, it would have the characteristics of human handiwork. For example, it would contain inconsistencies. I haven't found any inconsistencies in the Quran. If you have found one I missed, I would be glad to look at it. Another feature of a man-made work of fiction would be a sequel. Any writer would follow up a successful piece of work with another one. Why? To make more money, of course. There is absolutely no doubt that the Quran is successful, going by the number of copies and the number of readers. Yet I haven't found any copy of Quran Part II. Do you know of any?

A book that is written by man cannot be timeless. With the passage of time, the book will lose its appeal as it recedes further into the mists of time and move out of the realm of relevance. The Quran is as relevant today as it was 1400 years ago. If you know any verse in the Quran which is no longer relevant, please let me know.

A book created by the hand of man also cannot be universal for the simple reason that no writer, being mortal, can be universal. The Quran is as meaningful to the illiterate, near-naked Bedouin eking out a meager existence in the middle of the Kalahari Desert as it is to the learned, bearded and fully-robed philosopher poring over ancient tomes in China. The Quran is just as equally meaningful to the computer consultant who is totally at home with programming algorithms and the intricacies of Latent Semantic Analysis as it is meaningful to somebody's grandmother who only knows the mouse as a rodent that the cat catches. Do you find any part of the Quran which is not relevant to you?

So, to me, there is only one conclusion. The Quran must be from Allah and only from Allah. Period.

Hope this is useful. Insha Allah. Any other questions?
Reply

Flame of Hope
03-10-2011, 05:09 AM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
So here is my feeble attempt at explaining something which is properly the work of learned scholars.
Dear respected brother, I will disagree with you here. :) If this was something for only scholars to decode, where would ordinary people like me be?

You yourself state:
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
The Quran is just as equally meaningful to the computer consultant who is totally at home with programming algorithms and the intricacies of Latent Semantic Analysis as it is meaningful to somebody's grandmother who only knows the mouse as a rodent that the cat catches.
Therefore, the message of the Qur'an is addressed to all people, regardless of their levels of knowledge and understanding. Eventually, in the Final Determination and Weighing of Deeds, it is not the person who is most knowledgeable, most scholarly or the most religious who will succeed in the Hereafter. Allah is not partial towards any of His creatures on the Day of Judgment. He doesn't care how much knowledge you have, how many rakats of prayers you offered, how many times you went for Hajj, how beautifully you can recite the Qur'an or how much wealth you gave in charity. No doubt these deeds are helpful if one does them, but our success does not depend upon those deeds. Our success depends upon our sincerity towards Allah. In the end that is all that matters on the Day of Judgment. And this sincerity is something that all people can achieve, no matter who it is. One does not need to be a scholar to interpret the main message of the Qur'an, which is to worship none but Allah and to follow the example of Prophet Muhammad (saws).

One does not need to be a scholar to know the truth that God is One. The first people who embraced Islam weren't scholars but they understood the meaning of worshiping One God and following the example of the Prophet (saws). Afterwards, there were many people who accepted Islam and became Muslims. However, we are informed in the Qur'an that these people had merely surrendered themselves to Islam. Iman had not yet entered their hearts.

Let's hope we belong to the first group of early converts of Islam, that group that consists of the Sahabah, those who were strong in their iman.

Iman, which can only be acquired through the process of objective thought, reflection and contemplation. The Sahabah KNEW that God is ONE. Not because the Qur'an said so. But because they had used their minds to interpret the Signs of Allah all around them and the Qur'an had confirmed it.
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Ali Mujahidin
03-10-2011, 06:58 AM
I am only speaking for myself when I talk about my 'feeble attempt' because I know that I am not a Muslim scholar. I don't even know the entire Arabic alphabet yet. However that does not change my conviction that Islam is the one and only religion for me and that Allah is the One and Only God for me. To know something and to be able to explain it meaningfully are two quite different kettles of fish altogether. Nevertheless, I will keep on trying. Insha Allah.
Reply

Flame of Hope
03-10-2011, 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
To know something and to be able to explain it meaningfully are two quite different kettles of fish altogether.
You are right, brother. I only oppose the concept that only scholars can explain and interpret things for us. This does not mean that I do not accept the views and opinions of scholars. I respect everybody's opinions. But in the end, what's important is what makes you convinced that something is the truth.
This differs from person to person. Still, I'm interested in knowing what those reasons are that make one convinced. Jazakallah khair brother ThisOldMan, for sharing with us the reasons for your convictions. They have been of much help, at least to me and I appreciate the time and effort you have taken to answer my questions. :)
Reply

Flame of Hope
03-10-2011, 10:44 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
Let's try to work this out by way of elimination.

If the Quran is a work of man, it would have the characteristics of human handiwork. For example, it would contain inconsistencies. I haven't found any inconsistencies in the Quran. If you have found one I missed, I would be glad to look at it. Another feature of a man-made work of fiction would be a sequel. Any writer would follow up a successful piece of work with another one. Why? To make more money, of course. There is absolutely no doubt that the Quran is successful, going by the number of copies and the number of readers. Yet I haven't found any copy of Quran Part II. Do you know of any?

A book that is written by man cannot be timeless. With the passage of time, the book will lose its appeal as it recedes further into the mists of time and move out of the realm of relevance. The Quran is as relevant today as it was 1400 years ago. If you know any verse in the Quran which is no longer relevant, please let me know.

A book created by the hand of man also cannot be universal for the simple reason that no writer, being mortal, can be universal. The Quran is as meaningful to the illiterate, near-naked Bedouin eking out a meager existence in the middle of the Kalahari Desert as it is to the learned, bearded and fully-robed philosopher poring over ancient tomes in China. The Quran is just as equally meaningful to the computer consultant who is totally at home with programming algorithms and the intricacies of Latent Semantic Analysis as it is meaningful to somebody's grandmother who only knows the mouse as a rodent that the cat catches. Do you find any part of the Quran which is not relevant to you?

So, to me, there is only one conclusion. The Quran must be from Allah and only from Allah. Period.
Jazakallah khair for explaining, brother. :)

You're right. The Qur'an has no inconsistences in it. It's message is timeless, simple, easy to understand and clear. :thumbs_up

Alhamdulillahir Rabbil al Ameen!!
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GuestFellow
03-10-2011, 11:53 PM
^ That is what I love about Islam. It is simple and clear.
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Flame of Hope
03-11-2011, 12:15 AM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
^ That is what I love about Islam. It is simple and clear.
Alhamdulillahir Rabbil al Ameen! Wallahu Akbar!
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Ali Mujahidin
03-11-2011, 12:59 AM
Syukur alhamduliLLah. So we are all agreed that Islam is the truth. Now how do we go about sharing this wonderful discovery with other people who are are still groping in the dark, so to say? Can we continue the discussion in this thread or shall I start a new one?
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Flame of Hope
03-11-2011, 02:31 AM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
So we are all agreed that Islam is the truth.
I was hoping that each Muslim would express his convictions about Islam in this thread. It's very important for each of us to know exactly why we have chosen to follow this religion. Not knowing the reasons can prove to be very perilous. For example, a sister mentioned that one of the reasons why she believed in Allah was because He answered her prayers. But if this is the reason why one believes, then it's not a very good reason. Because there are many people who become atheists when God sends to them calamities, difficulties and hardships. So it's like people believe in God when the going is good and when the going gets tough, they abandon their belief.
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Flame of Hope
03-11-2011, 02:39 AM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
So, you may ask, how do we even know there is Allah, in the first place?

The answer is very simple. We came from Allah. We are created by Allah. Allah has put into us the innate ability to know Allah.
Are you saying then that you know about the existence of God because He put that innate ability in you? You know it by instinct then? Or is there any other reason why you believe in God?
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Ali Mujahidin
03-11-2011, 03:34 AM
Originally Posted by
So it's like people believe in God when the going is good and when the going gets tough, they abandon their belief.

Personally, I have found that even in the direst situation, if we keep steadfast in our faith, we will find the truth about Allah's promise that when Allah closes one door, Allah will open another even better one for us. I learned the hard way that what I wanted in life was not always the best for me. I must admit I had been very stubborn in believing in my own capabilities. Allah saw it fit that I should be properly humbled to acknowledge the greatness of Allah.

So here I am, at 57 years of age when most men would be taking it easy and enjoying the fruits of their labor, starting all over again with literally just the clothes on my back. And I found my new life to be even better than my old one. Syukur alhamduliLLah.
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Ali Mujahidin
03-11-2011, 05:13 AM
Originally Posted by
Are you saying then that you know about the existence of God because He put that innate ability in you? You know it by instinct then? Or is there any other reason why you believe in God?

Of course! When I relied on logical thinking, my conclusion was that there is no such thing as an almighty god. My response, in my pre-Islamic days, to my well-meaning friends who tried to tell me about Allah, by way of analytical deduction, was:

"If, as you said, everything must have a creator, then who created God? Before you answer that, think, too, about who created whoever or whatever that created the whoever or whatever that created God."

End of conversation.

It was when I was teaching in a rural Malay school that I found out the truth. As a member of the staff, it was my duty to accompany my Muslim students as they took part in the Maulidur Rasul celebrations. When they sang the selawat to the Holy Prophet, I sang along just for the fun of it. Then I felt as if a great weight had been lifted off my shoulders. The climax of the celebrations was a talk by a Muslim scholar from Azhar University. He told us, in simple layman terms, that the only reason we were created by Allah is to appreciate the beauty of Allah's creations. At that point in time, I opened up my heart to accept the nur of hidayah.

That was more than 30 years ago. I am still a very long way from being knowledgeable about Islam. Seriously, I can't even read the Quran except for the few verses that I have memorised by heart. Nevertheless, I practice as much of Islam as I can, within the limits of my human frailties. I pray in jemaah five times a day, which is not too difficult since I have moved to a house right in front of the mosque. I wear a serban and jubah (kurta and salwa, actually, most of the time). I let my beard grow (only about 6 inches long so far) and trim my mustache. I even dye my beard and hair with red henna (well, most of it is already white anyway) and use a walking stick even though I have no problem walking unaided.

I am still struggliing to learn the last few letters of the Arabic alphabet. Insha Allah, I will be able to read the Quran by myself by the end of this year.

Seriously, is this all logical? I mean, I am a computer consultant. My mind is trained to worked on logic. Everything in the world of computers is based on rational thinking. The computer is such an incredibly stupid machine that it would hang up just because there was one tiny little misplaced dot in the program. Yet, I am 100% convinced that Allah exists without having met one single person who has ever personally met Allah. I believe because my heart said so. My heart said so because it was created by Allah and all of Allah's creations instinctively recognize the existence of Allah.

Here's something you can try yourself. Go to bed. Then wake up in the dead of the night. And cry out to Allah. I mean really cry with tears flowing unbridled. Allah promised that there will be no hijab between Allah and whosoever gets up in the dead of night to cry out to Allah. Insha Allah.
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Flame of Hope
03-11-2011, 06:13 AM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
"If, as you said, everything must have a creator, then who created God? Before you answer that, think, too, about who created whoever or whatever that created the whoever or whatever that created God."
Well, if something didn't exist before and it suddenly came into existence, how do we explain it? Let's say it was a chocolate chip cookie. How would you explain the sudden appearance of a chocolate chip cookie sitting at your computer table? The only acceptable conclusion would be that someone made it and someone had put it on the table. This is in the case of a thing that did not exist before.

But what if something has always existed? Something that has always existed wouldn't have a maker, would it?

So to those people who ask, "Who created God?", the answer is He has no maker. There is nothing before Him and nothing after Him. He is The First and The Last. Al-Awwal wal Akhir. And we human beings cannot comprehend or imagine an entity like that. Which is why in the Qur'an we are told that there is nothing like unto Him.

Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
When I relied on logical thinking, my conclusion was that there is no such thing as an almighty god.
However, I have reached the conclusion that God has no maker through logical thinking. Perhaps this was not the reason that led you to belief in Allah. It was, as you say, a matter of instinct, a feeling deep within the heart that God does exist.

I can relate to that part of your reasoning as well. When I think back during the days of my adolescence, I clearly remember the strange feeling I constantly used to have, coming from the depths of my heart, something that told me that one day I will have to give an account for my actions. But the question always lingered in my mind. Accountability to who? It was then that belief in God took root in my heart. Belief in God came first. Acceptance of Islam as my religion came much later.

My belief in God is the result of a combination of things. Maybe I can share with you guys later, the story of how I reverted to Islam. For now, I'm simply interested in what compelled my respected brothers and sisters here in this forum to consciously choose Islam to be their religion and way of life. I hope everyone realizes that Islam is a choice that one has to make, even though one might be born to Muslim parents. It isn't something that is inherited.

Jazakallah khair brother ThisOldMan for sharing with us your very interesting story. I enjoyed reading it. :)
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Ramadhan
03-11-2011, 11:23 AM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this particular fact as the reason why Islam is the truth and why Allah SWT is the One God:

Allah SWT has claimed directly through the Qur'an that He SWT is the God and the Creator of everything. Among many other ayats :
“Verily, I am Allah: there is no god but I: so serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.” (Taha 20:14)

no other "gods" have claimed so.
In other religious books, it was always written as "Brahma created blah.. blah.."
and in other scriptures it was always written in third person observation, and not even second person (eg. NT), and don't get me started on the millions of contradictions and errors contained in the OT and NT.

No one has claimed that they're the creator of heavens and earth except for Allah SWT.
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Flame of Hope
03-11-2011, 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by naidamar
No one has claimed that they're the creator of heavens and earth except for Allah SWT.
Allahu Akbar! That's a terrific observation. :)
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Flame of Hope
03-13-2011, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
Seriously, is this all logical? I mean, I am a computer consultant. My mind is trained to worked on logic. Everything in the world of computers is based on rational thinking. The computer is such an incredibly stupid machine that it would hang up just because there was one tiny little misplaced dot in the program. Yet, I am 100% convinced that Allah exists without having met one single person who has ever personally met Allah. I believe because my heart said so. My heart said so because it was created by Allah and all of Allah's creations instinctively recognize the existence of Allah.

Here's something you can try yourself. Go to bed. Then wake up in the dead of the night. And cry out to Allah. I mean really cry with tears flowing unbridled. Allah promised that there will be no hijab between Allah and whosoever gets up in the dead of night to cry out to Allah. Insha Allah.
Your words reminded me of a time when some Mormons knocked on my door. They were very friendly and talked to me about God. In the end, before leaving, they gave me a copy of their Bible and told me to read it. I had asked them how I would know if their book contained the truth. Their reply was, I should read the Bible and when I went to bed that night, I should pray to God to guide me and that I would know deep down in my heart that it was the truth.

Brother ThisOldMan, if you believe in God because it is a matter of insight and the dictates of your heart, then I think the Christians, the Hindus, the Sikhs and followers of other religions are justified in believing what they believe regarding their religion. They all believe in God and they believe because their heart says so.
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Ali Mujahidin
03-14-2011, 03:33 AM
Originally Posted by
I should read the Bible and when I went to bed that night, I should pray to God to guide me and that I would know deep down in my heart that it was the truth.

Once upon a time, I did just that and my heart told me that it was not the truth. Seriously. Before I proceed any further, let me share something I read quite a while ago.

One day, the Holy Prophet (saw) told the Sahabah not to curse their own parents. The Sahabah asked how it was possible to curse one's own parents. The Holy Prophet (saw) said that if we were to curse some other person's parents, then they will curse our parents in turn. Therefor by cursing some other person's parents, we are effectively cursing our own parents.

I always remind myself of this whenever I am tempted (which is very often) to find fault with other religions. Of course, everyone believes that their religion is right. Otherwise they would have left it for something more right. Our duty is just to spread the Message of Islam. It is up to Allah to open their hearts to accept the nur of hidayah. Let's not try to do more than what Allah has created us to be capable of doing. Basically, I am doing dakwah because I don't want to be guilty of dereliction of duty. Insha Allah.
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Woodrow
03-14-2011, 04:10 AM
I think I came to have a firm belief in the existance of God(swt) because of my inability to avoid him. Either my entire life has been an odd happening of strange events or it was guided by a force I did my best to hide from. Perhaps coincidences may happen, but at some point it is hard to see the coincidences as not having been directed. The simple fact is I have survived against incredible odds on more than one or 2 occasions. The fact I survived is one reason I strongly believe in the existence of Allaah(swt)

The acceptance of his existence sent me on the search of how to serve him. I found that in Islam after a very long time of searching.
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CosmicPathos
03-14-2011, 04:48 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
I think I came to have a firm belief in the existance of God(swt) because of my inability to avoid him. Either my entire life has been an odd happening of strange events or it was guided by a force I did my best to hide from. Perhaps coincidences may happen, but at some point it is hard to see the coincidences as not having been directed. The simple fact is I have survived against incredible odds on more than one or 2 occasions. The fact I survived is one reason I strongly believe in the existence of Allaah(swt)

The acceptance of his existence sent me on the search of how to serve him. I found that in Islam after a very long time of searching.
mashAllah.

That reminds me of a scene from the movie Pulp Fiction. Samuel L Jackson and John Travolta. Jackson, miraculously, escapes a bullet, and starts believing that God saved him and feels that he needs to stop being a hitman and a gangster and should start serving Him. Travolta, on the other hand, interprets this event as a "freak coincidence." He makes fun of jackson's new conviction and tells him that it was a freak coincidence that the bullet did not cross his head ...

So I guess everyone will interpret things differently. The question is: Which interpretation is more reasonable?
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Flame of Hope
03-14-2011, 04:51 AM
Brother ThisOldMan, I wonder if you have ever heard of a book by Harun Yahya called "Allah is Known Through Reason." Perhaps it might help you get another perspective and provide you further fuel to strengthen your convictions about Islam.

Islam demands its followers to use their reason and not follow conjecture and the dictates of one's heart. It's necessary to have proof and evidence for one's belief. If not, then it's a blind belief and dangerous.

Brother Woodrow, where can I read the story of your reversion? Jazakallah khair.
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Woodrow
03-14-2011, 05:09 AM
Originally Posted by Flame
Brother Woodrow, where can I read the story of your reversion? Jazakallah khair.
:wa: Ukhti,

Try this Link:

http://www.protectedpearl.com/apps/b...-to-reach-home
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Tyrion
03-14-2011, 05:22 AM
Originally Posted by Flame
I wonder if you have ever heard of a book by Harun Yahya called "Allah is Known Through Reason."
I've heard some pretty shady things about Harun Yahya, so be careful about recommending stuff by him...
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Flame of Hope
03-14-2011, 06:11 AM
Brother Woodrow, that was a very beautiful story of your reversion. Mashallah! I loved reading the following part of your journey:

This necessitated a thorough study of the bible from it's origin to it's translations. The Bible had to be infallible as it was the true Word of God. As I studied the Bible more in depthand searching back through older translations including the Koine Greek. I became aware of how little the bible is composed of words from God, it is nearly all the words of man. The questions began to come. What was the basis for the particular books in the NT selected by the Council of Nicea as true and so many others were cast aside as being Gnostic? Why is it that no copies of any book in Aramaic exists or even mentioned. Aramaic was the common language of the time. Hebrew had stopped being a spoken language at about the time of Isiah and Koine Greek was used mostly by the educated and along with Latin for legal decrees..Looking deeper into the NT I can find none of the characteristics of the metaphorical thought processes consistent with Semitic people.
I hope I will get to read more stories like these. :)
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Flame of Hope
03-14-2011, 06:15 AM
Originally Posted by Tyrion
've heard some pretty shady things about Harun Yahya, so be careful about recommending stuff by him...
I'm aware of that, brother Tyrion. I was hoping that the title of the book, "Allah is Known Through Reason" would catch Brother ThisOldMan's attention, since he believes that the existence of God cannot be proved through a logical process of thought and reason.

There are many interesting articles at harunyahya's site. I take what is good and ignore that which I don't agree with. I follow the same policy regarding any book or article I read. But read whatever I can about a subject I'm investigating, I certainly do. I even read books and articles written by Christians. Far from confusing me and leading me astray, they only serve to strengthen my faith in Islam. :statisfie

So if Brother ThisOldMan is disinclined to read Harun Yahya's book "Allah is Known Through Reason", that's not a problem. I can provide plenty of verses in the Qur'an that prove this point. But I think it's better that people investigate on their own and know the truth for themselves.... Like brother Woodrow, who did much investigating and research on the Bible to discover for himself how wrong he had been about his beliefs. So when he stumbled upon the verses of the Qur'an he recognized it to be the truth, for he had already done his research and seen what truth could not be.
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Ali Mujahidin
03-14-2011, 07:13 AM
JazakuLLah, sister Flame.

I have no doubt the book written by Yahya Harun, and many other books by many other people, must have a lot of interesting points which are thought-provoking. However, considering that I have very little time left on this lonely planet, I am going to concentrate on learning the Arabic language so that I can find out for myself, first hand, the indisputable truth that is contained in the Quran.

I am not saying that I am not open to new ideas. After all, my professional work involves watching movies about cats and dogs, then writing reviews about them. Plus doing research on haunted castles and writing articles about them, too. That's besides playing World of Warcraft and working on developing my own private WoW game server. All these I do when I am not out in the field on dakwah missions. I want to be able to answer properly when Allah asks me what I have done with the time I am given by Allah on this lonely planet. Insha Allah.
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MustafaMc
03-14-2011, 11:33 AM
Originally Posted by Flame
I hope I will get to read more stories like these. :)
If you are interested in my story, here it is: http://www.protectedpearl.com/apps/b...y-grace-of-god

I can't say at what point in my life that I began believing in God, but I grew up as a Christian and as far as I know I have believed in God since 'getting saved' when I was about 12 years old.

I am a plant breeder and I have a PhD in genetics and molecular biology. I am amazed and intrigued by the intricacies of life on the molecular level. My reasoning dictates that there had to have been a Creator to design and implement this seemingly self-perputuating system of life. I will use a simple analogy. Take 3 red bricks and randomly throw them up in the air a 100 trillion times. How many times will they fall back to the ground with all three stacked perfectly lined up vertically on top of each other? How many times will they fall on top of each other and be broken into pieces? Another question, if you were walking along the beach in the still-wet and packed area where the tide and crashing waves had just receded and you found three individual bricks perfectly stacked vertically, would you not wonder who it was that stacked those bricks without leaving any footprints in the sand when he left? Me? I would just say, "Subhan'Allah, how God works in amazingly mysterious ways!" I say the same thing with my knowledge of science.
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Amat Allah
03-14-2011, 11:58 AM
I always believed in Allah existence but Sub`haan Allah many things happened with me in my life proved for me that He Is there watching me and listening... things that not everyone can believe that they have happened for real...Sub`haan Allah...
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Danah
03-14-2011, 02:31 PM
Interesting question!

Not many people thought of this before. I think I just need to have a bit closer look and I will find that there are so many reasons keep telling me that Islam is the true way to Allah.

1. It doesn't go against the human's mind, it clarifies and simplify big issues to easier matters:
The whole universe has one creator, this creator is the one and only who need to be worshiped.

2. If you need anything you just can go directly to this creator, there is no this complications that other "religions" calls to, like go through mediators or ask human beings to grant your wishes or requests. Or something like: God is too holy to ask him directly to give you what you ask for. Its just a direct relationship between you and Allah without any kind of bridges or whatsoever.

3. Islam goes very smoothly with science, you can't help yourself but say amazingly: "subhanAllah" every time you discovered a new scientific fact in the Quran.

4. Quran is the most powerful book on the face of earth, no books can compete with it whether scriptures books or any other books. There is no author on the face of earth dare to say that his book is perfect and free of error. While Allah said that in the first surah after surah Al-Fatiha:
This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil)
[2:2]

and the verses are so many in the Quran to mention here, not only those verses that support the Quran perfectness, but also those verses that challenged the most eloquent people among Arabs on earth to write only one Aayah like Quran and they couldn't.

Quran is the only books that remained unchanged since Allah revealed it 1400 years ago while you can see in other books something like: "this is the most accurate version of so and so"


Alhumdulilah for the grace of Islam.
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samira436
03-14-2011, 07:18 PM
sorry if this hrats u but i have to ammm i realy felt funy inside me cuse the wrod u have used sorry necessarily it is because you have akst it for ala u have prayed it and akst Allah and sorry i have to crekt u so sorry if it had

and u would not stp beliving in Allah
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Flame of Hope
03-14-2011, 10:47 PM
I'm soooooo pleased with this forum. Coz I found this very cool thread that captivated me.

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...-religion.html :thumbs_up

Brother MustafaMc, jazakallah khair for the link for your story. I shall read it at the earliest opportunity, inshallah. I'm sure I'm going to love it as much as I loved brother Woodrow's. :)
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Woodrow
03-15-2011, 01:14 AM
Originally Posted by MustafaMc
If you are interested in my story, here it is: http://www.protectedpearl.com/apps/b...y-grace-of-god

I can't say at what point in my life that I began believing in God, but I grew up as a Christian and as far as I know I have believed in God since 'getting saved' when I was about 12 years old.

I am a plant breeder and I have a PhD in genetics and molecular biology. I am amazed and intrigued by the intricacies of life on the molecular level. My reasoning dictates that there had to have been a Creator to design and implement this seemingly self-perputuating system of life. I will use a simple analogy. Take 3 red bricks and randomly throw them up in the air a 100 trillion times. How many times will they fall back to the ground with all three stacked perfectly lined up vertically on top of each other? How many times will they fall on top of each other and be broken into pieces? Another question, if you were walking along the beach in the still-wet and packed area where the tide and crashing waves had just receded and you found three individual bricks perfectly stacked vertically, would you not wonder who it was that stacked those bricks without leaving any footprints in the sand when he left? Me? I would just say, "Subhan'Allah, how God works in amazingly mysterious ways!" I say the same thing with my knowledge of science.
For those who have not done so. I highly rcommend reading Bro Mustafa's reversion story.
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Flame of Hope
03-15-2011, 05:10 AM
Originally Posted by MustafaMc
If you are interested in my story, here it is: http://www.protectedpearl.com/apps/b...y-grace-of-god
Subhanallah! I read your story. Mashallah! Allow me to highlight the points that touched me the most:

1.
After a year of being his roommate, I took his Quran home over Christmas break. I used the index to find and read verses about Jesus, Mary, Abraham, Moses, Joseph (peace be upon them all) and other people I knew from the Bible. At first I disbelieved in what I was reading because it disagreed with my Christian beliefs, particularly the parts about Jesus not being the Son of God. As I read more, I reached a pivot point where I saw that what I was reading made more logical sense than my Christian faith and I experienced what can be compared to a ‘Paradigm Shift’, or a change in a fundamental understanding of the world. I have always believed in a Creator for the universe, but my understanding or perception of God changed dramatically and irreversibly during that Christmas break of 1981.
2.
I chose Mustafa as my new name because it means ‘chosen’, not by my own merit, but by the Grace and Mercy of God.
Indeed, what a great honor it is that Allah has chosen to guide us to Islam. My head will forever be bowed down low in utter thankfulness for this supreme blessing.

Jazakallah khair brother, for sharing your beautiful story.

MORE PLEASE!!!!!!!!?
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Flame of Hope
03-15-2011, 09:53 PM
Is there a place here in this forum where members have shared their stories of how they came to Islam? I'm rather interested in stories of people who were born Muslim but who later on chose Islam as their way of life.
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Woodrow
03-15-2011, 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by Flame
Is there a place here in this forum where members have shared their stories of how they came to Islam? I'm rather interested in stories of people who were born Muslim but who later on chose Islam as their way of life.
Try this link:

http://www.islamicboard.com/new-musl...ours-here.html
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Faatin
03-15-2011, 11:14 PM
Wow I've never heard about the fly one..that's really interesting. Do you think you can pin point the exact hadith? Also if there is a fly in the food, is it mandatory to eat it?! :exhausted
Originally Posted by Salahudeen
I was present at an exorcism and saw the effect of the Qur'an recitation upon the posessed person. Also I read a article by non muslim scientists, they were talking about the wing of the fly containing some medicine or something can't remember now, and I remembered the hadith about fully submerging the fly in your food if you find one in it..
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MustafaMc
03-16-2011, 01:27 AM
Brother Woodrow and Sister Flame, may Allah (swt) reward you for your kind and heartwarming words.

My story is not something that I boast about because I am ashamed of the many years when I did not practice Islam after accepting it as the Truth. Rather I see it as an example of Allah's (swt) mercy on one who is undeserving. Yes, I was able to see that what the Quran said about God and Jesus was more logical than the Christian faith I had, but that was only because Allah (swt) opened my eyes to be able to see. To Him alone belongs the glory and the praise. Many people have read what I did in December 1981 and yet their hearts remained untouched. I am thankful that Allah (swt) had the mercy to show me the light of Islam.

My story is also an illustration that as long as a person is still alive then there is hope for repentance and return to the fold of Islam. We should not be quick to condemn another person because he is not praying or because he is living a sinful life, because he may yet reform and die a righteous man; whereas, we may yet fall away from Islam in our latter years and die as an unbeliever. May Allah (swt) guide us to live as Muslims and protect us from dying other than as Mu'minoon.
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Flame of Hope
03-16-2011, 05:06 AM
Originally Posted by MustafaMc
We should not be quick to condemn another person because he is not praying or because he is living a sinful life, because he may yet reform and die a righteous man; whereas, we may yet fall away from Islam in our latter years and die as an unbeliever.
You're right, brother. Not just that, one must not be quick to judge or condemn anyone, even if that person is a disbeliever, for one never knows whether Allah might guide him to Islam.

One must be more concerned about correcting one's own affairs before raising a critical gaze at others. After all, we shall not be held accountable for what others did. We shall be alone with no helpers on the Day of Judgement, our record of own deeds around our necks.
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MustafaMc
03-16-2011, 11:29 AM
Yes, we should not be too judgmental of others, but rather be merciful to them as truly Allah (swt) has been to all of us. Being born to Muslim parents or being guided to the light of Islam out of the darkness are truly blessings that we often fail to fully appreciate. What comes to mind is the saying I have heard many times, "There but for the grace of God, so go I." I certainly regret the many years that I was not practicing Islam, but I now have the very rare joy to taste of the mercy of Allah (swt) twice in my life - once upon accepting Islam and the second time in being guided back to Islam as Allah (swt) instilled in my heart a desire to repent. Subhan'Allah and Alhamdulillah!

An ayat also comes to mind 39:53, "Say: O My slaves who have been prodigal to their own hurt! Despair not of the mercy of Allah, Who forgives all sins. Lo! He is the Forgiving, the Merciful."
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Selising
03-16-2011, 12:38 PM
the more I learn about my religion, the more I know firmly that Islam is very true. I never do religion comparison, but when I read what Allah has said, look at the sky, look at the moon, look at the sea, isn't there signs for those who want to think? yes they are, they are signs of the existance of God, of Allah. When I read that Allah said, I did not created all those for nothing; yes they are, everything that He created has its purpose, you can even use **** as fertilizer, when you met an accident, it is actually rezeqi for the hospital staffs.

the more you look around, you will understand that what Allah has said are very true that makes Islam is true. Do Islam created by Muhammad? No, I don't think so. If so, why the teachings are similar to jews (jews didn't eat pork, fish head) and why the ritual is similar to christian (the way the orthodox perform solah is similar to Islam) WHEN he never go to school and he even did not know how to read and write.
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Little_Lion
03-17-2011, 05:30 AM
I believe that part of what led me to seeing the truth in Islam, aside from the will of Allah, is how I approached it. Initially I had no intention of learning about it for the sake of converting, but because I am considering moving to the Middle East in the future. Islam to me was so foreign, that I decided to approach it as a child would - a modern child, which meant I watched a LOT of programs on Youtube that explained Islam very simply! (My personal favorites are the "Stories of the Prophets" series with Sheikh Yusuf Estes.)

As I watched, I realized that it REALLY made sense, much more so than any other religion I had ever encountered. So I studied more, I read the Qur'an, and I just knew in my heart this was the Truth, and it was time to submit to Allah.

All of us, regardless of our age, are still children in a sense. We can accumulate a great deal of knowledge and wisdom, but still the simplest of truths strike home and warm our hearts the most, much as they will with a child. Simple words are sometimes all that is needed - Mr. Rogers, for example, during his life spoke so simply to Western children about the most basic things in life such as trust, sharing, feelings, and friendship, that children knew he told the truth. The Qur'an and the Sunnah are so simple, and speak so much to our hearts, that I know many here would agree that we know they are the Truth in the same way.
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Eric H
03-18-2011, 08:54 AM
Greetings and peace be with you all,

Allah (swt) chooses whom he wills, and I perceive the sincere faith of many of you on this forum, which means to me that your path was chosen for you by Allah (swt)

The Same Allah (swt) who gave you your faith; has also given me a deep and profound faith through Christianity. If both of our faiths have come from the same God, and he has chosen different paths for each of us, we seem to have a dilemma.

Somehow we are brothers and sisters together, created by the same God.

In the spirit of searching for a greater interfaith friendship and understanding

Eric
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Tyrion
03-18-2011, 09:01 AM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you all,

Allah (swt) chooses whom he wills, and I perceive the sincere faith of many of you on this forum, which means to me that your path was chosen for you by Allah (swt)

The Same Allah (swt) who gave you your faith; has also given me a deep and profound faith through Christianity. If both of our faiths have come from the same God, and he has chosen different paths for each of us, we seem to have a dilemma.

Somehow we are brothers and sisters together, created by the same God.

In the spirit of searching for a greater interfaith friendship and understanding

Eric
Why do you (and others like you) always seem to imply that Islam and Christianity can both be right simultaneously? Some go so far as to say that they believe in both, and in Muhammad's (pbuh) Prophethood... Can't you see that this just isn't possible? Honestly, I just don't get it... We've told you all this before, and you never seem to understand... Is this just a way for you to just feel safer about your choices? Just assuming that all of them must be right? I suppose it would save you from thinking too hard... But honestly, it doesn't work... Mind telling me how you think a religion/God that denies the trinity or Jesus's divinity, as well as a number of things you do as a Christian (like the eating of pork, the whole not praying thing, the fact that you can't possibly follow his revealed rules, assuming you believe Muhammad is a prophet of God who came with His message...) could just be okay with you being Christian? Your position just doesn't make any sense...


/rant
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Eric H
03-18-2011, 09:28 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Tyrion; I do not mean to offend, but I seem stuck with my thoughts.

God is beyond our understanding.

There are many Christian denominations; but there is only one Jesus.
There are many Muslim sects; but only one Prophet Muhammad pbuh.
There are many religions, but the same God created each and every one of us.

Why does the same God allow so many seemingly conflicting religions to exist? Our religion gives us so much meaning in life, but God is greater than the sum of all the religions of the world put together.

In the spirit of searching for the greatest meaning of One God.

Eric
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YUSSUF IBNU ALI
03-18-2011, 10:06 AM
By ONE GOD,HOLY QURAN WHICH IS ORIGINAL STILL.
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Ali Mujahidin
03-18-2011, 10:14 AM
Originally Posted by
In the spirit of searching for the greatest meaning of One God.

I will remember you in my dua. May Allah bless you with the nur of hidayah. Ameen.
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Ramadhan
03-18-2011, 10:48 AM
Originally Posted by
There are many Muslim sects; but only one Prophet Muhammad pbuh.

Actually, this is misleading. The vast majority of muslims are sunnis (85-90%) while majority of the rest is Shia. And the differences between sunni and shia stemmed from political, not spiritual. and there's very small percentage of ahmadiyya, which both sunnis and shias consider as being outside of Islam.


Originally Posted by
There are many religions, but the same God created each and every one of us.

Why does the same God allow so many seemingly conflicting religions to exist? Our religion gives us so much meaning in life, but God is greater than the sum of all the religions of the world put together.
Allah SWT sent messengers to every nation. However, due to the nature of humans which are forgetful and weak to the whispers of shaytan, men started to change the messages brought by their messengers. Some of them did not even wait for their messenger's death, witnessed the rebellion by the nation of Musa (pbuh) who started to build a cow and worship when Musa left temporarily. But with prophet Muhammad SAW, Allah intends that the message of Islam is for mankind till the end of the day:

And for every Ummah (a community or a nation), there is a Messenger; when their Messenger comes, the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged. (Qur'ân 10:47)

And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a Messenger (proclaiming): "Worship Allah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Taghut (all false deities, etc. i.e., do not worship Taghut besides Allah)." Then of them were some whom Allah guided and of them were some upon whom the straying was justified. So travel through the land and see what was the end of those who denied (the truth). (Qur'ân 16:36)

And, indeed We have sent Messengers before you (O Muhammad(P)); of some of them We have related to you their story and of some We have not related to you their story, and it was not given to any Messenger that he should bring a sign except by the Leave of Allah. So, when comes the Commandment of Allah, the matter will be decided with truth, and the followers of falsehood will then be lost. (Qur'ân 40:78)

There is also a very good story on how a remote tribe in Papua had the concept of Tawheed and the tribe couldn't accept trinity when missionaries came to the island because they thought trinity concept is so contrived and sound very much man-made, compared to their simple religion of God outside the creation. http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/prophet.html

While there were messengers sent to every nation before Muhammad SAW, prophet Muhammad SAW was the last sent (seal) because the message that he brought (Islam) is for mankind:

"We have not sent you (O Muhammad) but as a universal (Messenger) to men giving them glad tidings and warning them (against sin) but most men understand not." (Qurân 34: 28)

"O mankind! Verily, there has come to you the Messenger (Muhammad) with the truth from your Rabb (Sustainer). So believe in him, it is better for you. But if you disbelieve, then certainly to Allâh belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. And Allâh is Ever All-Knowing, All-Wise." (Qurân 4: 170)

"Say (O Muhammad to mankind): “If you (really) love Allâh then follow me (i.e. accept Islâmic Monotheism, follow the Qur’ªn and the Sunnah), Allâh will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” Say (O Muhammad): “Obey Allâh and the Messenger (Muhammad).” But if they turn away, then Allâh does not like the disbelievers." (Qur’an 3: 31)

"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things." (QS. 33:40)
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MustafaMc
03-18-2011, 01:05 PM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you all,

Allah (swt) chooses whom he wills, and I perceive the sincere faith of many of you on this forum, which means to me that your path was chosen for you by Allah (swt)

The Same Allah (swt) who gave you your faith; has also given me a deep and profound faith through Christianity. If both of our faiths have come from the same God, and he has chosen different paths for each of us, we seem to have a dilemma.

Somehow we are brothers and sisters together, created by the same God.

In the spirit of searching for a greater interfaith friendship and understanding

Eric
... and the same to you.

I agree with you that guidance or leaving one to stray is something that Allah (swt) wills for each of us. I did not choose to have my eyes opened to the Truth of Islam, but rather Allah (swt) had mercy on me according to His will. I believe that I am fundamentally the same person now as when I was a Christian in that I was as sincere in my faith then as I am now albeit my beliefs are quite different. I also agree that we believe in the same God because there is only One God; however, our concepts and perceptions of the Divine Being, God, are quite different. I believe that Jesus (as) prayed to Allah (swt) and he taught his disciples to in the "Lord's Prayer". I also believe that Christians worship Jesus (as) as Allah (swt) alone should be worshiped. Another Christian here has said that we Muslims have an incomplete concept of God because we exclude Jesus (as) being God in human flesh who walked among us. One sees the other as ascribing partners to God and the other sees the first as denying the fullness of God.

The dilemma is how people of different faiths can be sincere and feel that his own way is the Straight Way while the other is astray. It is as Allah (swt) has willed according to the Quran 5:48 "... Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He has given you (He has made you as you are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah you will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein you differ."

Even though I believe that ascribing partners to Allah (swt) is the greatest sin of all, I leave it to Allah (swt) to judge between us as Jesus (as) is quoted as saying on Judgment Day in the Quran 5:117-118 "I spake unto them only that which You commanded me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when You took me You were the Watcher over them. You are Witness over all things. If You punish them, lo! they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them (lo! they are Your slaves). Lo! You, only You, are the Mighty, the Wise."
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Woodrow
03-18-2011, 01:23 PM
Something I see as verification of the truth of Islam is in the manner it grows. Very many reverts never had any intention of ever accepting Islam. Yet, some spark is lit within them and that spark grows and at that moment they know they are Muslim and always have been. We do not convert to Islam, we return home, the moment we discover Allaah(swt) has left the door open for us.

Perhaps this is something only a revert can fully understand. But to myself and perhaps others this awakening is one verification of the Truth of Islam.
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Eric H
03-18-2011, 02:43 PM
Blessings and peace be with you MustafaMc;

Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He has given you (He has made you as you are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah you will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein you differ."

We seem divided by our beliefs but Allah has given us the solution..vie one with another in good works.

In the spirit of searching for a greater interfaith understanding and friendship

Eric
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Tyrion
03-18-2011, 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Blessings and peace be with you MustafaMc;

Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He has given you (He has made you as you are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah you will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein you differ."

We seem divided by our beliefs but Allah has given us the solution..vie one with another in good works.

In the spirit of searching for a greater interfaith understanding and friendship

Eric
First of all, don't try to give us tafsir of a verse... Second, you really need to understand that no matter how much you try to trick yourself, you're just wrong... There really can't be any situation where your view is correct. If for even a second you entertain the thought that Muhammad (pbuh) recieved revelation from the SAME God as Jesus, your faith in Christianity is no longer valid... This God that spoke to Muhammad, who you claim was the same that spoke to Jesus, told us to leave the false ways that were present at the time, one of which was Christianity... He even explains why there were previous messages, something you don't seem to understand... The fact that previous messages came (which were identical to the message of Islam) and were later corrupted. No matter how you spin it, you can't be right here... Why can't you see that?
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Eric H
03-18-2011, 04:52 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Tyrion;

First of all, don't try to give us tafsir of a verse...
This was part of post 103 by MustafaMc, I forgot to wrap quote tags round it to say I had used his quote. Sorry if I upset you, I would prefer not to respond to your other comments though,

peace.

In the spirit of searching for some kind of interfaith understanding

Eric
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Tyrion
03-18-2011, 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Sorry if I upset you, I would prefer not to respond to your other comments though,
I'm not upset... o.o But the whole point was for you to address my other comments... They're the ones that address the problem you seem to have.

Or is this your way of acknowledging that your view just doesn't work? :p
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Flame of Hope
03-18-2011, 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by Eric H
The Same Allah (swt) who gave you your faith; has also given me a deep and profound faith through Christianity. If both of our faiths have come from the same God, and he has chosen different paths for each of us, we seem to have a dilemma.

Somehow we are brothers and sisters together, created by the same God.

In the spirit of searching for a greater interfaith friendship and understanding
Greetings to you, Eric H.

I started this thread for a very important reason. My desire has been to make clear to Muslims that Islam is not a religion that calls to blind faith, where one just believes in whatever the Prophet (saws) told us without using our minds, hearts and reason to know that he indeed spoke the truth.

In Christianity and other religions, it's alright to abandon your reason and not use one's intelligence....and that was the reason why I had started another thread challenging non-Muslims to explain to us how they know that their religion is the truth. So far, nobody has come forward with a good reason why they chose their faith. They just believe in it and they have no evidence or proof to back their beliefs. They indulge in conjecture and guesswork and merely HOPE that it's the truth.

In Islam however, indulging in conjecture and guesswork is strictly forbidden. The Qur'an actually forbids man to speak without knowledge and specifically, saying things about God that are untrue.

Since you have a profound faith in Christianity, perhaps you could give your reasons how you KNOW that Christianity is the truth and what exactly is the teaching in Christianity that you follow. There are so many denominations in Christianity, so you would have to be a little specific as to what exactly you believe and state the reasons for those beliefs.

Yes, we are brothers and sisters created by the same God, we belong to the same human family, we are all the children of Adam and Eve. But what separates us into differing faiths is one thing alone. And that is our intelligence and God-given gift of reason. Those who differ in matters of religion fail to use their reason, whereas those who use their reason KNOW what the truth is. And when knowledge of the truth is acquired, that's when conviction is born in the heart. And that's what we Muslims call Iman.....or faith.

Iman - the only thing that can save man from the Fire of Hell. Iman - which cannot be acquired unless man uses his power of thought and reason.
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Flame of Hope
03-18-2011, 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
some spark is lit within them and that spark grows and at that moment they know they are Muslim and always have been.
You're gonna make me cry, brother Woodrow. What a beautiful observation! What you say is indeed the truth. My family sees me as a convert to Islam. But I feel as though I never converted. I feel as though I have always been a Muslim, even during the days of my ignorance, right from birth.
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MustafaMc
03-18-2011, 08:56 PM
Peace be upon you, Eric. On that we agree, we should compete in doing good deeds and I think we basically agree on what falls under good deeds.
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T4WHEED
03-19-2011, 12:25 AM
brilliant question. Few reasons why.

1. Islam is the only religion on the face of the earth that unites all of humanity as one through the common belief of oneness of Allah.
2. It is not just a religion but rather a way of life, practical, nothing has been left out for a human being to live his life the way God wanted him to live it.
3. True monotheism and best understanding of God.
4. Quran is a miracle. Not been changed for 1400 years memorised by thousands of muslims. No other religion has as many people that have memorised their sacred scriptures to the letter than islam.
5. Scientific facts in the quran could only mean one thing that it is a book from the creator. Not one scientific point in the quran has been disproven. Also if it was from anyone else there would be lots of mistakes and contradictions.
6. Just listening to the quran being recited you know that no way a man could make such a book.
7. Quran is the only book that has a falsification test in it. No other book makes such challenges. The test is still available today!
8. The religion of islam is logical and rational unlike many that adopt illogical beliefs and practices.
9. Prophet muhammed (peace be upon him) had sublime characteristics and just by reading his biography you know he was a man of God.

That's all i can think of right now :-)
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Flame of Hope
03-19-2011, 12:38 AM
Originally Posted by T4WHEED
1. Islam is the only religion on the face of the earth that unites all of humanity as one through the common belief of oneness of Allah.
2. It is not just a religion but rather a way of life, practical, nothing has been left out for a human being to live his life the way God wanted him to live it.
3. True monotheism and best understanding of God.
4. Quran is a miracle. Not been changed for 1400 years memorised by thousands of muslims. No other religion has as many people that have memorised their sacred scriptures to the letter than islam.
5. Scientific facts in the quran could only mean one thing that it is a book from the creator. Not one scientific point in the quran has been disproven. Also if it was from anyone else there would be lots of mistakes and contradictions.
6. Just listening to the quran being recited you know that no way a man could make such a book.
7. Quran is the only book that has a falsification test in it. No other book makes such challenges. The test is still available today!
8. The religion of islam is logical and rational unlike many that adopt illogical beliefs and practices.
9. Prophet muhammed (peace be upon him) had sublime characteristics and just by reading his biography you know he was a man of God.
All beautiful reasons, brother T4WHEED. Jazakallah khair for this very convincing list. :thumbs_up

Originally Posted by T4WHEED
That's all i can think of right now :-)
Do post more if you can think of more later!!! Jazakallah khair!! :statisfie
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Ali Mujahidin
03-23-2011, 01:44 AM
As salaam mualaikum.

I would like to share something that I heard during a bayan (Islamic general topic talk).

There was a holy man who spent 500 years performing salah, dhikr, fasting and all the others activities that constitute amal ibadat. When Allah asked him why he did that, he said he did all that so that he could enter jana. Finally, his time on earth was over and he faced Allah on Judgment Day. Fully expecting to be admitted to jana, he was totally shocked to be told by Allah,

"Your place is in nar. You did what you did because you believed that your amal ibadat has power to get you into jana. Verily Allah and only Allah has the power to say who will enter jana and who will not."

That really made me scrutinize my own amal ibadat.

For me, this is also another aspect of Islam that convinces me that it must be the truth. No Muslim will enter jana just because a holy man prayed on his behalf or a conference of holy men decided that he is a saint. Verily Allah and only Allah has the power to say who will enter jana and who will not.

btw hidayah and iman are different things and should not be lumped together nor should they be confused with each other, but that can only be properly elaborated on in its own thread. Insha Allah.
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Ramadhan
03-23-2011, 03:12 AM
To add on my previous post, where I mentioned that Allah is the only ONE who have directly claimed as the creator of everything - jesus, buddha, brahma, syiwa, wishnu, ahura mazda, horus, isis, thor, zeus, ufo, etc never made that claim (and I can assure you that no one else will ever be able to make the claim until the end of this universe), I also want to point out to the other fact:
Allah is the only ONE worshiped by men without representation (no images, no statues, nothing) and no intermediaries either.
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Flame of Hope
03-23-2011, 03:42 AM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
There was a holy man who spent 500 years performing salah, dhikr, fasting and all the others activities that constitute amal ibadat. When Allah asked him why he did that, he said he did all that so that he could enter jana. Finally, his time on earth was over and he faced Allah on Judgment Day. Fully expecting to be admitted to jana, he was totally shocked to be told by Allah,

"Your place is in nar. You did what you did because you believed that your amal ibadat has power to get you into jana. Verily Allah and only Allah has the power to say who will enter jana and who will not."

That really made me scrutinize my own amal ibadat.

For me, this is also another aspect of Islam that convinces me that it must be the truth. No Muslim will enter jana just because a holy man prayed on his behalf or a conference of holy men decided that he is a saint. Verily Allah and only Allah has the power to say who will enter jana and who will not.
Brother ThisOldMan, I'm wondering how does this story convince you that Islam must be the truth?

A Christian man could come up and say that he heard a story where on the Day of Judgment, those who believed in Christ would be saved and those who didn't would be sent to Hell.
If that Christian man were to say that he believed that Christianity was the truth because of this story he heard, what would you think?

Another question if you don't mind. Do you know or understand the reason why Allah rejected the amal ibadat of that man who spent 500 years performing salah, dhikr, fasting and all other religious activities? It's true that we do not go to Jannah because of our deeds or anything we do. But do you know the reason why this is so?
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Ali Mujahidin
03-23-2011, 04:40 AM
As salaam mualaikum.

My dear sister Flame, if I were to meet you in real life, I am going to give you a bop on the head. Just joking. JazakuLLah for making me think so hard. Now let's see if I can answer with some sense.

1. If a Christian wants to believe that he will be saved because he believed Jesus is a god, there is nothing much I can do about it. I can only share with him what I know about Islam. It is totally and absolutely up to Allah whether he will receive the hidayah to see the truth of Islam.

2. A person who thinks that his actions, pious or otherwise, has the power to determine whether he goes to jana or not, is guilty of shirik. Allah strictly forbids any partners in our worship of Allah. This is the most fundamental concept of ad dinul Islam, the Kallimah Tayyibah. "La ila haila LLah" translates, approximately, as "There is none worthy of worship other than Allah". To have any doubt about this, even an infinitesimally small grain of doubt as tiny as a zarah, is to be guilty of shirik.

3. Let me share what I was told by a Muslim scholar.

Once Nabi Musa (as) had a very bad stomachache. So he prayed to Allah. Allah told him to get the leaves from a certain plant, boil the leaves and drink the brew. He did as he was told. His stomachache was healed. Some time later, he had the same ailment. Again he prayed to Allah for succor. Again he was told to do the same thing which he did with the same good result. The third time he had the same stomachache, without praying to Allah, he went ahead to get the leaves, boiled them and drank the brew. To no avail. Then he begged Allah to tell him why it didn't work as before. Allah told him that the failure resulted from his belief that it was the leaves, and not Allah, that healed his stomachache. Allah and only Allah alone has the power to make things happen.

Hope this is useful. Insha Allah.
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Eric H
03-23-2011, 07:34 AM
Greetings and peace be with you ThisOldMan;

1. If a Christian wants to believe that he will be saved because he believed Jesus is a god, there is nothing much I can do about it. I can only share with him what I know about Islam. It is totally and absolutely up to Allah whether he will receive the hidayah to see the truth of Islam.
I agree

3. Let me share what I was told by a Muslim scholar.

Once Nabi Musa (as) had a very bad stomachache. So he prayed to Allah. Allah told him to get the leaves from a certain plant, boil the leaves and drink the brew. He did as he was told. His stomachache was healed. Some time later, he had the same ailment. Again he prayed to Allah for succor. Again he was told to do the same thing which he did with the same good result. The third time he had the same stomachache, without praying to Allah, he went ahead to get the leaves, boiled them and drank the brew. To no avail. Then he begged Allah to tell him why it didn't work as before. Allah told him that the failure resulted from his belief that it was the leaves, and not Allah, that healed his stomachache. Allah and only Allah alone has the power to make things happen.Hope this is useful. Insha Allah.
Wonderful explanation, thanks for sharing.

In the spirit of strving to trust that we are where God wants us to be

Eric
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Flame of Hope
03-23-2011, 05:13 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
My dear sister Flame, if I were to meet you in real life, I am going to give you a bop on the head. Just joking. JazakuLLah for making me think so hard.
lol. Sorry about that, brother. I confess I have a bad habit of making people think...and think hard. ;D

2. A person who thinks that his actions, pious or otherwise, has the power to determine whether he goes to jana or not, is guilty of shirik. Allah strictly forbids any partners in our worship of Allah. This is the most fundamental concept of ad dinul Islam, the Kallimah Tayyibah. "La ila haila LLah" translates, approximately, as "There is none worthy of worship other than Allah". To have any doubt about this, even an infinitesimally small grain of doubt as tiny as a zarah, is to be guilty of shirik.
That's a brilliant perspective, brother. It's true! Jazakallah khair for shedding light on this very wonderful matter. :statisfie
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Flame of Hope
03-23-2011, 11:05 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
btw hidayah and iman are different things and should not be lumped together nor should they be confused with each other, but that can only be properly elaborated on in its own thread. Insha Allah.
Assalaamu alaykum, brother. lol. I couldn't resist asking you another question. It's regarding what you've stated above. Hidayah (guidance) and iman (faith) are different things but why do you say that they should not be lumped together?

I see a big connection between the two because iman in the heart has a lot to do with hidayah. How much faith do you think a man will have if he has no guidance from Allah? Also how much guidance will a man receive from Allah if he has no faith? ^o)
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Flame of Hope
03-30-2011, 01:43 AM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
Faith is believing what you cannot see.
Does that mean you would believe anything anyone says? How would you know who is speaking the truth and who is not?
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Ramadhan
03-30-2011, 02:08 AM
Originally Posted by Flame
Does that mean you would believe anything anyone says? How would you know who is speaking the truth and who is not?

I think he was explaining faith in general sense.
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Flame of Hope
03-30-2011, 04:24 AM
Faith is believing what you cannot see.
Originally Posted by naidamar
I think he was explaining faith in general sense.
That's the same explanation given by Christians, Hindus, Sikhs etc. They feel that because faith is believing in what you cannot see, they think they can believe whatever they like.

Christians would be justified in their faith that Jesus would be saving them on Judgement Day. The Hindus would be right in their faith that they will be reborn into this world. And atheists would be right in believing that nothing happens after death. They have great faith in their belief that there is no God.
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Ramadhan
03-30-2011, 04:37 AM
Originally Posted by Flame
That's the same explanation given by Christians, Hindus, Sikhs etc. They feel that because faith is believing in what you cannot see, they think they can believe whatever they like. Christians would be justified in their faith that Jesus would be saving them on Judgement Day. The Hindus would be right in their faith that they will be reborn into this world. And atheists would be right in believing that nothing happens after death. They have great faith in their belief that there is no God.

The difference between our faith and theirs is that our faith are supported with evidence and signs. Allah repeatedly says in the Qur'an commanding us to see and internalize His ayats (meaning signs, evidence, logic, reasoning, the nature, situation around us, etc) to come to the conclusion of belief/faith.
using our logic and reasoning skill and indirect physical evidence we come to the conclusion that the creator/God exists, and using the method employed by prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) thousands of years ago we also come to the conclusion that creation cannot be God. Tell me what existing religion in the world that worship an absolute, non-creation God? The answer is Islam and maybe orthodox judaism. Other religions have remnants of oneness of God/tawheed, but definitely not the pure, absolute one.
So we investigate, between qur'an and torah, which one is more likely to have come 100% from the One God?
There you have the answer.

But if you are born in a muslim family, the reverse process would work, but it arrives with the same exact result: strong belief in Allah and Islam as the true religion.
When you are born in muslim family, your family alreadytaught you to have belief in Allah and His prophet SAW, but the more you learn about Islam and the Qur'an, the stronger your faith grow, and especially if you know about other religions then you realize that you have diamond in your hand compared the charcoals peddled by others.
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Tyrion
03-30-2011, 04:37 AM
Originally Posted by Flame
That's the same explanation given by Christians, Hindus, Sikhs etc. They feel that because faith is believing in what you cannot see, they think they can believe whatever they like.

Christians would be justified in their faith that Jesus would be saving them on Judgement Day. The Hindus would be right in their faith that they will be reborn into this world. And atheists would be right in believing that nothing happens after death. They have great faith in their belief that there is no God.
You're confusing general faith with BLIND faith. Muslim's don't really believe in blind faith, and typically we will seek to first convince ourselves that Islam is actually from Allah, and therefore something we can trust. (through research, reflection, reading the Quran, etc...) Only then do we begin to have faith in the unseen...

Someone please correct me if I have misspoken.
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Flame of Hope
03-30-2011, 06:12 AM
I had asked brother ThisOldMan the following question:

Are you saying then that you know about the existence of God because He put that innate ability in you? You know it by instinct then? Or is there any other reason why you believe in God?
Brother ThisOldMan's answer was:

Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
Of course! When I relied on logical thinking, my conclusion was that there is no such thing as an almighty god.
This was the reason why I had questioned his signature statement: Faith is believing what you cannot see.

It appears that his faith is not a result of logical thinking, going by his statement above.
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Flame of Hope
03-30-2011, 06:15 AM
Originally Posted by Tyrion
Muslim's don't really believe in blind faith, and typically we will seek to first convince ourselves that Islam is actually from Allah, and therefore something we can trust. (through research, reflection, reading the Quran, etc...) Only then do we begin to have faith in the unseen...

Someone please correct me if I have misspoken.
You have not at all misspoken. What you say is true. The Qur'an commands us to engage in research and reflection to know the truth. Allah does not expect us to accept anything that doesn't make sense. Allah was the One who gave us our power of reason. He expects us to make use of it, no doubt. After all, knowledge cannot be acquired unless one uses it.
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Flame of Hope
03-30-2011, 06:19 AM
Originally Posted by naidamar
The difference between our faith and theirs is that our faith are supported with evidence and signs. Allah repeatedly says in the Qur'an commanding us to see and internalize His ayats (meaning signs, evidence, logic, reasoning, the nature, situation around us, etc) to come to the conclusion of belief/faith.
using our logic and reasoning skill and indirect physical evidence we come to the conclusion that the creator/God exists, and using the method employed by prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) thousands of years ago we also come to the conclusion that creation cannot be God. Tell me what existing religion in the world that worship an absolute, non-creation God? The answer is Islam and maybe orthodox judaism. Other religions have remnants of oneness of God/tawheed, but definitely not the pure, absolute one.
So we investigate, between qur'an and torah, which one is more likely to have come 100% from the One God?
There you have the answer.
Good points!

Alhamdulillahir rabbil al ameen!
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Ramadhan
03-30-2011, 06:34 AM
Originally Posted by Flame
This was the reason why I had questioned his signature statement: Faith is believing what you cannot see. It appears that his faith is not a result of logical thinking, going by his statement above.

It is true that faith is believing what you cannot see. that is the basic, but then we must elaborate.
As br. Tyrion has pointed out above, there is a difference between "faith" and "blind faith".
With blind faith, you dont care if what you believe has no evidence, or even has evidence stacked against it, has no rational basis, against common sense, violate all kinds of logic, discard every incriminating proofs.
example: christians belief that jesus is god, and god is 3 but 1 oh wait 3 but actually 1, that god dies.
NOW, that is blind faith.
another example: idol worship.

in Islam, this kind of faith is forbidden, because it will lead to shirk. In fact, the very first verse revealed was "iqra'", meaning "read, recite". As I have said, again and again in the Qur'an we are commanded to read the signs, etc. Faith in Islam is very much grounded in reality.
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Ali Mujahidin
03-30-2011, 07:07 AM
Originally Posted by Flame
Does that mean you would believe anything anyone says? How would you know who is speaking the truth and who is not?
:sl:

I am stating an obvious truth.

If, for example, you can already see nar, you don't need faith to believe it. You would already believe it instantly. It is when, as now, you cannot see nar that you need faith to believe that nar is waiting for you if you do not follow what Allah says. Same for jana. If you can already see jana, you don't need faith to believe it. You will be an instant believer. However, since you cannot see jana, you need faith to believe that Allah will reward you with jana when you follow what Allah tells you to do.

This does not mean that I believe anything that anyone says. I only believe what is in the Quran and the Ahadith. Then after I believe and I practice what I believe with full conviction, I will see the truth.

For example, the Quran and Ahadith say to perform solah five times a day. So I perform salah five times a day. Then I experience the truth about performing salah five times a day. I enjoy the peace of mind that comes with performing salah fives times a day. I enjoy good health from the calisthenics that I do when I perform salah five times a day. I would not have found out the truth if I did not have the faith to believe what I do not see. I believe, then practice what I believe and I see the truth. You should give it a try.

Regarding your earlier question about hidayah and iman:

Hidayah is totally and absolutely something that Allah and Allah alone can give. There is nothing at all that we can do about it.

Iman, in the final analysis, is also something which Allah has full control of. However, we are told to work on improving our iman. This is something which we can do. We are told what not to do so as not to weaken our iman. This is something we can avoid doing.

Therefor we must understand clearly that hidayah and iman are two totally different things. Some people may be confused and believe that by dissecting Islam and explaining it in objective terms, it is possible to get another person to accept Islam. This is impossible because to accept Islam requires hidayah which comes only from Allah. Even the Holy Prophet (saw), who is way, way a better daeen than any of us, could not get his beloved uncle, Abu Talib, to accept Islam.

Instead of trying to convince other people about the truth of Islam by scientific analysis, logical thinking and rational reasoning, we should concentrate on improving our iman so that we, ourselves, will bear witness to the truth of Islam. Other people, who do not know the truth of Islam, will only understand Islam from the way we live, from the way we speak, from the way we conduct ourselves, and so on and so forth.

To be able to live as a Muslim, especially in environments hostile to Islam, requires a lot of iman. So let's all keep on doing all the things that will strengthen our iman and avoid all the things which will weaken our iman. Also, remember iman is like something in a leaky bucket. We have to keep on topping up our iman, so to say. Otherwise, if we are lulled into thinking that our iman is strong enough and stop practicing Islam, we will find out, too late perhaps, that there is no iman left in our heart. How so? Well, if we have no iman or our iman is not strong enough, how do you think we will be able to utter the Kalimah Tayyibah with our dying breath?

Let's all pray to Allah that the last thing we say in this life will be "laila hailaLLah". Insha Allah. Ameen.
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Eric H
03-30-2011, 01:17 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Flame;

That's the same explanation given by Christians, Hindus, Sikhs etc. They feel that because faith is believing in what you cannot see, they think they can believe whatever they like.
I think you have to let Christians, Sikhs and Hindus find their own faith, there are enough troubles for all of us.

If Allah had wanted you to be a Christian or Hindu, that is what you would be, but he has placed Islam in your path, and Allah is asking you to respond.

Faith is very much how you respond to this call, despite all the proof, doubts and apparent contradictions. I say contradictions because it might be so much easier for all of us, if we all believed the same.

In the spirit of responding to God’s calling

Eric
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Flame of Hope
03-30-2011, 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
Hidayah is totally and absolutely something that Allah and Allah alone can give. There is nothing at all that we can do about it.
I heartily disagree. Hidayah means guidance. Allah guides those who seek His guidance. He guides those who are searching for answers. If a person already thinks that he is guided how likely do you think he would ask Allah to guide him?

You make it sound as though it is entirely up to Allah and that nothing is in our hands!

I'm sorry, but we're not puppets in the Hands of Allah. If we were, then it makes no sense to have a Day of Judgement. You might as well put the entire responsibility of one's actions on God. This sounds like the same sort of teaching of some Christians. Let Jesus take all the responsibility of the world's sin.

Au'dhu billahi mina shaytaanir rajeem!
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Flame of Hope
03-30-2011, 07:40 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
Some people may be confused and believe that by dissecting Islam and explaining it in objective terms, it is possible to get another person to accept Islam. This is impossible because to accept Islam requires hidayah which comes only from Allah. Even the Holy Prophet (saw), who is way, way a better daeen than any of us, could not get his beloved uncle, Abu Talib, to accept Islam.
Our duty is only to convey the message. A person couldn't accept Islam if the message wasn't conveyed to him in the first place. Only Allah has knowledge of what is in people's hearts. Everybody is not the same. Allah guides whosoever He wills but that doesn't mean we don't know the sort of people He guides. The Qur'an informs us about the people who Allah guides or does not guide.

We know that Allah does not guide the arrogant. He guides those in whom He sees humility and those who use their power of reason to know what the truth is. He guides those who fear Him.

We might think that Abu Talib should have received Allah's guidance. But Allah didn't guide Him. On his deathbed the Prophet (saws) made an attempt to persuade him to accept Islam. Perhaps Abu Talib would have done so, but that was not the will of Allah. Allah's will was to give Abu Talib a choice. Two men of the Quraish sat by Abu Talib's bedside and asked him if he would be willing to give up the traditions of his forefathers and embrace a new religion preached by his nephew (saws). Abu Talib chose to stick to the religion of his forefathers. He rejected Islam. Can we say now that Allah is responsible for the choice he made?!

Well, here we have ample proof of Allah's wisdom. Man is held accountable for the choices he makes, choices that are not forced upon him but choices he makes out of his own free will, choices he makes voluntarily. The Day of Judgement is set up for this purpose. Abu Talib was not forced by the Prophet (saws) to accept Islam. But it's obvious that he had to make a choice between the religion of Islam and the religion of his forefathers. And whatever his choice was, he will be held accountable for it on the Day of Judgement.

Whoever is reading this right now, let him know that he has choices to make and he will be held accountable for those choices. There is no compulsion in Islam. On the Day of Judgement, you will certainly be asked, "Wasn't the message conveyed to you? Didn't warning reach you?" What will you say then? That the warning and message did reach you, but you chose to reject it?
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Flame of Hope
03-30-2011, 07:59 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
nstead of trying to convince other people about the truth of Islam by scientific analysis, logical thinking and rational reasoning, we should concentrate on improving our iman so that we, ourselves, will bear witness to the truth of Islam. Other people, who do not know the truth of Islam, will only understand Islam from the way we live, from the way we speak, from the way we conduct ourselves, and so on and so forth.
Brother ThisOldMan, assalaamu alaykum!

If you say that people can be called to Islam by the way we live as Muslims, then you must follow the way of Islam and the teaching of the Qur'an. Agreed?

If so, then you must ponder upon what the Qur'an teaches and follow what it teaches. I'm sure you cannot overlook and ignore the following verses found in the Qur'an. You couldn't possibly live your life contrary to these verses:


Verily, the vilest of all creatures in the sight of God are those deaf, those dumb ones who do not use their reason. [8:22]


And do not follow (blindly) any information of which you have no (direct) knowledge. (Using your faculties of perception and conception, you must verify it for yourself. (In the Court of your Lord,) you will be held accountable for your hearing, sight, and the faculty of reasoning."[17:36]

“It is He Who has created you from dust; then from a sperm-drop; then from a leech-like clot; then does he get you out as a child; then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old,- though of you there are some who die before;- and lets you reach a Term appointed; in order that you may use your reason.” [40:67]

And most certainly have We destined for hell many of the invisible beings and human being who have hearts with which they fail to grasp the truth, and eyes with which they fail to see, and ears with which they fail to hear. They are like cattle -nay, they are even less conscious of the right way it is they, they who are the [truly] heedless! [7:179]

Verily, in the creation of the heavens and of the earth, and the succession of night and day: and in the ships that speed through the sea with what is useful to man: and in the waters which God sends down from the sky, giving life thereby to the earth after it had been lifeless, and causing all manner of living creatures to multiply thereon: and in the change of the winds, and the clouds that run their appointed courses between sky and earth: [in all this] there are messages/signs indeed for people who use their reason. [2:164]

And there are on earth [many] tracts of land close by one another [and yet widely differing from one another]; and [there are on it] vinyards, and fields of grain, and date-palms growing in clusters from one root or standing alone, [all] watered with the same water: and yet, some of them have We favoured above others by way of the food [which they provide for man and beast]. Verily, in all this there are messages/signs indeed for people who use their reason! [13:4]

And He has marshalled to your service the night and the day, the sun and the moon, and the stars have also been made subservient by His command. They all function according to His laws. In these also there are signs for those who use their reason. [16:12]


And [We grant you nourishment] from the fruit of date-palms and vines: from it you derive intoxicants as well as wholesome sustenance -in this, behold, there is a message/sign indeed for people who use their reason. [16:67]



And among His Signs, He shows you the lightning, by way both of fear and of hope, and He sends down rain from the sky and with it gives life to the earth after it is dead: verily in that are Signs for those who use their reason. [30:24]



And in the alternation of the night and the day, and in the means of sustenance which Allah sends down from the Height, reviving the earth which had been lifeless, and in the change of winds and seasons - in all this are Signs for people who use their reason. [45:5]



Do they not travel through the land, so that their hearts (and minds) may thus use reason and their ears may thus learn to hear? Truly it is not their eyes that are blind, but their hearts which are in their breasts. [22:46]

-------------------------

From this it's clear that he who uses his reason pleases Allah. He who doesn't incurs His wrath.

It's a matter of choice and Allah wrongs not a single one of His creatures.

Alhamdulillahir Rabbil al ameen!
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Flame of Hope
03-31-2011, 05:06 AM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
It was when I was teaching in a rural Malay school that I found out the truth. As a member of the staff, it was my duty to accompany my Muslim students as they took part in the Maulidur Rasul celebrations. When they sang the selawat to the Holy Prophet, I sang along just for the fun of it. Then I felt as if a great weight had been lifted off my shoulders. The climax of the celebrations was a talk by a Muslim scholar from Azhar University. He told us, in simple layman terms, that the only reason we were created by Allah is to appreciate the beauty of Allah's creations. At that point in time, I opened up my heart to accept the nur of hidayah.
Alhamdulillahir rabbil al ameen that you opened your heart and were guided to Islam. However, what got my eye was your mention of Maulidur Rasul celebrations. I found that in Malaysia this is quite a big event. I found some information here: Maulidur Rasul Celebrations.

Isn't this a bid'ah, an innovation that no Muslim should engage in? Do you still participate in such celebrations?

P.S. Respected brother ThisOldMan, I hope that I am not coming across as too aggressive. I'm hoping it doesn't seem as though I'm trying to find fault with so many of your posts. That has never been my intention. I only wish for clarification and a better understanding. I hope you will look at things in an objective way and not take things personally. Do forgive me if I said anything that might have hurt you.
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Innocent Soul
03-31-2011, 09:24 AM
^ I found these
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/249/
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Zafran
03-31-2011, 03:43 PM
Salaam

Truthfulness of the prophet Muhammad pbuh

The Quran.

peace
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Flame of Hope
03-31-2011, 07:57 PM
Originally Posted by Zafran
Truthfulness of the prophet Muhammad pbuh

The Quran.
What better reasons than the ones given above? Jazakallah khair brother, for a very valuable post. In my opinion, this ought to wrap up everything discussed in this thread.

The world of the unseen which comprises of Allah, His angels, Paradise, Hell, punishment in the grave, the questioning of Munkar and Nakir, the Day of Judgment, etc. is a very real world. It's the world of the Hereafter which Allah has kept hidden from man. If we were to see any of these things, all of us would become believers.

The only way that we can know that these things are true is through the messengers and the prophets sent by Allah. The messengers chosen by Allah are trustworthy men who could never lie regarding the message they had been sent to deliver. A clear sign that a man is a messenger of Allah is that he seeks no reward from people who accept his message. Another sign of his truthfulness is his trustworthy character. People who know him have seen by his words and actions that he is a righteous man.

Whosoever knew Prophet Muhammad (saws) were witnesses to his upright character and trustworthiness. It's inconceivable that he would lie to us about being the last messenger of Allah. So if he was telling the truth, then everything that he told us regarding the unseen world is absolutely true. The Qur'an is 100% true.

Abu Bakr (radhiallahu anhu) was the first man to accept Islam. He had absolutely no hesitation in accepting the strange claim of Muhammmad (saws) that he was the messenger of God. He had used his reason to know for certain that there was no way that Muhammad (saws) could be lying about such a matter.

Alhamduliillahir rabbil al ameen!

Ashhadu an la ilaha il Allah, Muhammaddar Rasul Allah!
I bear witness that there is no god worthy of worship except Allah and that Muhammad (saws) is His messenger!
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MustafaMc
04-01-2011, 12:19 AM
Sister Flame, have you read "The Sealed Nectar"?
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MustafaMc
04-01-2011, 12:13 PM
My reading of this book increased my faith that Islam is the true religion. This book is an illustration that we know so much more about the lives of Prophet Muhammad (saaws) and his companions than the Christians know about Jesus (as) and his disciples. The life of Prophet Muhammad (sal allahu alayhi wa salam) is a very inspirational story that increases the love for him in those who have Islamic faith in their heart. I am sure that this book does not have the same effect on a Christian or other non-Muslim readers. To know what he went through only to establish the worship of One God and the humble condition of his life is an example for how we should live our own lives.

So in summary, my reading of the Quran is the means by which Allah (subhana wa ta ala) guided me initially and how it was faith entered into my heart and reading about Prophet Muhammad's (saaws) life served to increase that faith. I accept him as the Messenger of Allah and I believe what he said was true.
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Flame of Hope
04-01-2011, 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by MustafaMc
So in summary, my reading of the Quran is the means by which Allah (subhana wa ta ala) guided me initially and how it was faith entered into my heart and reading about Prophet Muhammad's (saaws) life served to increase that faith. I accept him as the Messenger of Allah and I believe what he said was true.
Same case here, brother MustafaMc. :) I learnt about Prophet Muhammad (saws) later. And knowing about him only served to increase my faith in leaps and bounds.

Sometimes I think about the Mormons in this regard. They claim that they had a prophet named Joseph Smith. I'd like to relate a story regarding my encounter with them. It's rather amusing.

Well, there they were, missionaries clad in their best attire, in suits and ties, looking very smart. They had come to invite me to their faith. They gave me a copy of their Bible and I was instructed to read it and then pray at night to know that it was the truth. They didn't know who they were dealing with. They were dealing with creature who had the abominable habit of dissecting and analyzing information and rejecting all things that made no sense.

Anyway, I did open their Bible in order to read it. The first page had a picture of Jesus in wonderful colorful radiance. I don't quite remember the other details about the Mormon Bible. It took me less than a second to reject everything written in it. My rejection of it had to do with the picture of Jesus. How on earth did they know what Jesus looked like? The picture they had drawn was pure conjecture. That man could hardly be the real Jesus.

I had another reason to reject the Bible. It was supposed to be a revelation sent to a man who claimed to be a prophet, a man by the name of Joseph Smith.

Well now, I was already a Muslim then. I knew that Prophet Muhammad (saws) was the last prophet. So how true could the claim of Joseph Smith's prophet-hood be?

Still, I decided to give Joseph Smith a chance. What if he was a true prophet? One mustn't reject something without doing a bit of investigation. That has always been my policy. So, this is what I did. I went online and did some research on Joseph Smith. My investigation was solely directed to unearth clues that would give me an idea about the truthfulness of his character. I didn't have to search much. He was a clear fraud. If he was true, there would have been profuse reports of his life as a testament of his upright character. Such reports were pathetically few in number. Joseph Smith did not pass my background check.

So when the Mormons paid me a visit again, they asked me if I had read their Bible. They were not prepared for the questions I posed to them. I told them that I was more interested in their prophet, Joseph Smith. I asked them if they would be so kind as to give me information regarding him. They said they would.

But guess what? The Mormons fled and never again returned with the information I wanted. ;D
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MustafaMc
04-01-2011, 11:15 PM
Sister, I am glad that you are enjoying this book. You are right that the character of the messenger should be used as a yard-stick to evaluate his suitability as a Messenger of God. That is one of the major things that amazes me about Christians, in how they readily and unquestioningly accept Paul as a Prophet of God and the 'gospel' that he claims in Galatians to have received as a direct revelation from God to him personally. This is in spite of him actively persecuting the Christians prior to his 'vision'.

I became aware that there were Christians who shared my understanding of Paul as the de facto originator of Christianity from a TV minister, Les Feldick, when I watched one of his shows. His show basically reiterated an article by a Christian, William Newell, who died in 1956 where he demonstrated that Paul was the one to whom the basic articles of the Christian faith were revealed. The article 'Paul's Gospel' can be read at http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/dispen/newell.htm
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Insecured soul
04-02-2011, 01:18 AM
Originally Posted by
A question for both revert Muslims and born Muslims. How do you know that Islam is the truth?
because it is the fitra of insaan, secondly, there are all justfications that a creation cannot be a god, be it stone, idols, monkey donkey, man.... or whatever and u do see that all non muslims worship something or the other in creation itself?

and after all how could anyone stand against the hujjah of quran? can you or can anyone else?

There is no way out for a person in not believing allah azzawajal, there is just no choice :)
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Jalal~
04-02-2011, 02:49 AM
Salams to all. so how can i prove that Islam is the truth? bascially through logic and reasoning right? is this what we have to use in order to show other people that Islam is the correct religion? i mean, if i do provide Quranic evidence or hadiths to whoever i am talking to, they just wouldnt believe me. any tips or links or stories that someone could post so as to change a persons mind and cause them to think about religion more and to investigate for themselves? jazakallah khair.
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Muhaba
04-02-2011, 12:45 PM
many reasons.
1. there is nothing like the Quran. if you ever read a verse from the Quran (in arabic) in some article or book, you can see the difference between normal arabic writing and the Quran. the Quran has a sweet melidious sound like no other arabic sentence. subhannallah! everyone shoulld try to read the Quran in arabic to see its real beauty.
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Flame of Hope
04-05-2011, 11:39 PM
An interesting article I came across very much relevant to this thread. I have highlighted parts in blue that I thought were important.

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What Drives People to Convert to Islam

The nature of religious faith is quite mysterious. As part of their religious faiths, people believe in a variety of deities. There are people who have religious faith in the unseen supreme transcendental power and then there are others who believe in some humans as Gods, animals (e.g. monkeys), fire, idols made of stone, and the list goes on.

A lot is associated with having a religious “faith”. Part of it has to do with beliefs passed on through generations. People’s identities therefore get tied to it. Many times, these beliefs and associated feelings are not completely demonstrable by reason or any rational arguments. There is nothing right or wrong with this but that’s just how the nature of religious faith has come to be.

Everyone thinks they are right in their faith and beliefs. Being with people and groups with similar faiths further strengthens people’s faiths and they see it as “right” even though logical reasoning and argument sometimes can’t explain it all. That’s human psychology.

Islam’s arguments based on intellectual reasoning
Muslims believe however, that the Islamic religion is different in this context. One may argue that similar to other faiths there are aspects of it which are not completely demonstrable by reason but on the other hand, the Quranic text, which is Allah’s words addressing the humanity at large, uses intellectual reason, critical thinking, and the process of reflection as a means to not only reinforce the faith of the believers but also to call non-believers to ponder about the authenticity of Islam as the way of life for the humanity at large. Although no religious beliefs can be fully based on logic and reasoning, Islam and Quran provide more than enough examples and an opportunity to examine the truth and the soundness of its message through the lens of empirical evidence and knowledge.

No one (Muslim or otherwise) would argue that critical thinking and reflection can be a major catalyst for changing of ones life. Critical thinking has been used by many to improve their lives simply because a critical thinker asks probing questions about a situation, collects as much information as possible, reflects on the ideas collected and generated in context of the information available, keeps an open and unbiased mind and carefully scrutinizes assumptions and seeks alternatives.

This is the reason therefore that new Muslim converts would attribute the use of intelligent reasoning, reflection and critical thinking when explaining their journey to Islam. Such people cut through the hysteria created by some in the media to view Islam from a critical lens and following the truth thus comes naturally to them as part of this process. How else can one explain the increase in conversions with the increase of anti-Islam rhetoric? How else can one explain that more non-Muslim preachers have been converting to Islam than ever before? Although as Muslims we believe that the guidance (hidaya) comes only from Allah, the use of a person’s God-gifted intellectual reasoning has a very powerful role to play in Muslim converts making that destiny changing decision. And once converted, they rarely go back to their old faiths simply because a faith whose foundations are built on logic and reason is much less likely to be shaken down than one which builds simply upon a set of rites and sacraments.

Reasons attributed by new Converts
Some of the reasons attributed by people who convert to Islam are listed below. We can see that most of these reasons can only be attributed to the process of critical thinking and intellectual reflection.

Eloquence of Quran’s language – The uniqueness and beauty of Quran’s text has been marveled by the best of Arab linguists and scholars from the days it was revealed until today. The more knowledgeable people are in the language, the more they appreciate the wonders of the textual fluency of the Quran.

Overwhelming scientific evidence and proofs – The Quran, revealed more than 1400 years ago has numerous scientific facts that are being validated by science only in this era.

Divine wisdom behind various social issues – The Quran provides a solution to numerous social issues, a deviation from which has known to cause societal chaos at all levels.

Arguments rooted in intellectual reasoning – Quran is the only known religious text that challenges mankind to think, reflect and ponder over the creation at large, social issues, God’s existence, and more. Quran in many instances challenges people to reflect and think on their own rather than heeding to the lose talk of those whose criticism is based on baseless foundations.

A confident assertion of a supreme being – Quran is the only known religious book that has a confident assertion of a supreme being on all issues ranging from the creation of the universe to social issues.

Divine Text – Quran’s language and prose is very different from the language in the hadith (Porphet’s sayings) thus proving that Quran is not the “imagination” or words of Prophet Muhammad, as many doubters have alleged in the past and do so even today.

Quran’s challenge to people on thinking and reflection
The Quran on numerous occasions challenges humanity at large to think, reflect and ponder over their affairs. Here is some of what the Quran states:

Thus do We explain the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, laws, etc.) in detail for the people who reflect. (Yunus, Chapter #10, Verse #24)

Do they not think deeply (in their ownselves) about themselves (how Allah created them from nothing, and similarly He will resurrect them)? Allah has created not the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, except with truth and for an appointed term. And indeed many of mankind deny the Meeting with their Lord. (Ar-Room, Chapter #30, Verse #8)

He it is Who has appointed for you the night that you may rest therein, and the day to make things visible (to you). Verily, in this are Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) for a people who listen (i.e. those who think deeply). (Yunus, Chapter #10, Verse #67)

Does man think that he will be left Suda (neglected without being punished or rewarded for the obligatory duties enjoined by his Lord (Allah) on him)? (Al-Qiyama, Chapter #75, Verse #36)

Did you think that We had created you in play (without any purpose), and that you would not be brought back to Us?” (Al-Mumenoon, Chapter #23, Verse #115)

To the rejecters of truth the Quran states: Or do you think that most of them hear or understand? They are only like cattle; nay, they are even farther astray from the Path. (i.e. even worst than cattle). (Al-Furqan, Chapter #25, Verse #44)

Do they not reflect? There is no madness in their companion (Muhammad). He is but a plain warner. (Al-Araf, Chapter #7, Verse #184)

Had We sent down this Quran on a mountain, you would surely have seen it humbling itself and rending asunder by the fear of Allah. Such are the parables which We put forward to mankind that they may reflect . (Al-Hashr, Chapter #59, Verse #21)


When studying the many cases of new Muslim converts, we see that engaging in critical thinking and intellectual reasoning have led people to change their non-Islamic faiths – the same faiths that earlier supposedly could have moved mountains, get diluted by the voices of reason easily heard in the roots of Islam. A mere process of thinking and reflection brings so much to the limelight that otherwise remains veiled by distractions and forces of the anti-Islam pundits. Those who are bent to see only the negative, fail to see the light of truth and instead engage in a never ending superficial analysis to unsuccessfully prove their misguided philosophies.

There are many statistics in the media that highlight the phenomenal rate at which people are converting to Islam. Although, the authenticity of all these sources has not been validated for the purpose of this post, some of them include the following:

According to “The Almanac Book of Facts”, the population increased 137% within the past decade, Christianity increased 46%, while Islam increased 235%.
100,000 people per year in America alone, are converting to Islam. For every 1 male convert to Islam, 4 females convert to Islam
TV Report: 4000 Germans Convert To ISLAM Each Year
About 25000 people convert to Islam every year in the UK alone
…many more examples exist.

What about Muslims?
If voices of reason embedded in the teachings of Islam are causing non-Muslims to revert to Islam in droves, why is it that so many Muslims usually born into the religion fail to fully follow and thus enjoy the teachings of the religion? The fact is that it is this lack of critical thinking and reflection even on some Muslims part that is forcing Muslims to have a substandard way of life. Islam and its teachings hold the promise of a fulfilling and peaceful life for all. Yet, Muslims continue to ignore the basics and get mired in social and moral issues causing unnecessary pain and suffering on themselves and their families. The fact is that only if they could think and reflect on the teachings of their own religion, they can escape the many problems and challenges that face them.

The message
To non-Muslims who have only scratched the surface about learning Islam and who may be getting distracted by those who are the wrong torch bearers of this religion and also distracted by the biased voices in the media, the message is simple – try to view the teachings of Islam with a critical lens and you may be able to see more reason than you may not have thought was present. To Muslims, the message is that sometimes we do not appreciate the teachings of our own religion simply because we never think and grow beyond the few religious practices in operating our lives. A focused effort to learn, think and reflect more will help us get closer to the religious teachings in ways that can drastically improve our lives.

source
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Ali Mujahidin
04-06-2011, 02:36 AM
As salaam mualaikum.

I have been on the road for the last few days. Now I am more or less settled in my new home. ThisOldMan is still well and alive. Hope everyone is also in good health and fine fettle.

Back on topic.

I seem to detect a trend in some posts here. There seems to be an emphasis on thinking and reasoning. Myself I would like to think that I am capable of logical deduction and rational analysis. However, so far as I have found out, reversion to Islam and steadfast belief in Islam does not arise from thinking about it. As I have pointed out many times before, I am not an accredited Muslim scholar but I am an ardent albeit poor student of Islam.

Let's look at the reversion of some of the sahabah.

Abu Bakar (ra) was a close friend of the Holy Prophet (saw) even before the first verse was revealed. So when he reverted, I would presume that his prior relationship with the Holy Prophet may have some influence. Still, Abu Bakar reverted without going through a lengthy critical analysis of Islam. Perhaps if someone has some evidence that says he did, I would to study it.

Umar (ra), prior to his reversion to Islam, was very far from being a friend of the Holy Prophet. In fact, on the very day of his reversion, he had started out with a drawn sword swearing not to sheath it until he had the Holy Prophet's blood on it. Umar's acceptance of Islam, like Abu Bakar's, was instant. There was no drawn-out debate as to the why and wherefore of Islam before he reverted. Again, if someone has some evidence that says he took his time thinking about the truth and veracity of Islam before he reverted, I would like to study it.

I can go on and on recounting the reversions of the 128,000 sahabah but there would not be enough space for it here. If you are interested, I am sure Google would be able to help you.

The point I am trying to make here is that I do not see any value in insisting that a person should analyze Islam and think hard about it before accepting Islam. I once studied under an ustaz who had a Master's degree in Islamic Studies. When I asked him why he didn't do his Doctorate, he told me that he baulked at the thought of the Jewish professors who would be examining his thesis. Come to think of it, if logical analysis and rational reasoning is the way to Islam, then those Jewish professors would have reverted long ago, considering that they are accredited experts in Islamic Studies. As a subject of academic interest.

So to all my brothers and sisters in Islam, I would like to suggest that it would do all of us a lot more good to do a little less thinking about it and do a little more practicing Islam. Shaytan, I am very sure, is perfectly happy if everyone would spend their whole lives studying Islam and not practicing it at all.

On the day of Final Reckoning, we are not measured by how much we have studied about Islam. Neither are we measured by how much we have thought about Islam. We are measured by how much we have practiced Islam. If someone has some evidence that says otherwise, I would like to study it.

To all my brothers and sisters in Islam who would like to know what to say to their yet-to-be Muslim friends when asked about Islam, just tell them sincerely that you know very little. Then tell them what little you know, with sincerity. More importantly, tell them about Islam by the way you practice Islam.

Insha Allah, your actions will speak more loudly and more convincingly than your words.
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Flame of Hope
04-06-2011, 04:06 AM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
So to all my brothers and sisters in Islam, I would like to suggest that it would do all of us a lot more good to do a little less thinking about it and do a little more practicing Islam. Shaytan, I am very sure, is perfectly happy if everyone would spend their whole lives studying Islam and not practicing it at all.
I'm quite acquainted with Shaytan's tricks. One of them is to dissuade people from acquiring knowledge through study, thought and reflection.

One can't practice Islam in the true spirit unless one acquires knowledge and understanding. And knowledge and understanding are impossible to attain without thought, reason and contemplation.

I've already given verses from the Qur'an that command us to use our faculties of thought and reason.

I shall now provide some hadiths to consider:

The Prophet said, “The acquisition of knowledge is a duty incumbent one every Muslim, male and female.”

The Prophet said, “He dies not who gives life to learning.”

Allah’s apostle was once asked, "What is the greatest vice of man?" The Prophet said, "You must not ask me about vice, but ask about virtue;" and he repeated this three times, after which he said, "Let it be known to all! The worst of men is a deliberately ignorant man, and a well educated man is the best."

The Prophet said, “An hour's contemplation is better than a year's adoration.”

The Prophet said, “To spend more time in learning is better than spending more time praying; the support of religion is abstinence. It is better to teach knowledge one hour in the night than to pray all night.”

The Prophet said, “One learned man is harder on the devil than a thousand ignorant worshippers.”

The Prophet said, “The pursuit of knowledge is a divine commandment for every Muslim; and to waste knowledge on those who are unworthy of it is like putting pearls, jewels, and gold on the necks of swine.”

The Prophet said, “ That person who shall pursue the path of knowledge, Allah will direct him to the path of Paradise; and verily the superiority of a learned man over an ignorant worshipper is like that of the full moon over all the stars.”

The Prophet said, “To listen to the words of the learned, and to instill into others the lessons of science, is better than religious exercises.”

The Prophet said, “He who leaves home in search of knowledge, walks in the path of Allah.”

The Prophet said, “Acquire knowledge. It enables its possessor to distinguish right from wrong; it lights the way to Heaven; it is our friend in the desert, our society in solitude, our companion when friendless; it guides us to happiness; it sustains us in misery; it is an ornament among friends, and an armour against enemies.”

The Prophet said, “Who are the learned? They who practice what they know.”

The Prophet said, “Education makes a city easy to govern but impossible to enslave.”

I'll reply to your queries about the reversion of Abu Bakr and Umar radhiallahu anhum at another time.
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Eric H
04-06-2011, 07:20 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Flame,

Knowledge is important but Allah has given each one of us varying degrees of knowledge, some become professors, and others do not have the ability to read and write, despite a good education. Does that mean only bright and clever people can become Muslims?

Maybe we could pose the question of faith in a mathematical way, what percentage of our faith is because Allah has chosen us as he wills, and what percentage is down to our own efforts……

My faith is 99 % down to Allah, and 1 % to my own works and reasoning.

Or

My faith is 1 % from Allah, and 99 % of my own reasoning and works.

What numbers sound closer to the truth.

In the spirit of searching for Allah.

Eric
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Flame of Hope
04-06-2011, 07:27 AM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
I seem to detect a trend in some posts here. There seems to be an emphasis on thinking and reasoning.
And you have a problem with that because this was not the way you became Muslim?
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Flame of Hope
04-06-2011, 07:57 AM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
I once studied under an ustaz who had a Master's degree in Islamic Studies. When I asked him why he didn't do his Doctorate, he told me that he baulked at the thought of the Jewish professors who would be examining his thesis. Come to think of it, if logical analysis and rational reasoning is the way to Islam, then those Jewish professors would have reverted long ago, considering that they are accredited experts in Islamic Studies.
Jewish professors! How can Jewish professors have anything to do with a Doctorate in Islamic Studies? Such a Doctorate if there were one would have zero value to me if Jewish professors were evaluating it. One could hardly call them experts in Islamic Studies.
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Flame of Hope
04-06-2011, 08:14 AM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
On the day of Final Reckoning, we are not measured by how much we have studied about Islam. Neither are we measured by how much we have thought about Islam. We are measured by how much we have practiced Islam. If someone has some evidence that says otherwise, I would like to study it.
Sure, you can go ahead and study this very important principle of Islam. We are not at all measured by how much we have practiced Islam. On the Day of Final Reckoning, what is measured is not quantity of deeds. What is measured is the quality of deeds. And the quality of one's deeds depends upon your sincerity. And sincerity to Allah cannot be attained except by the God-fearing. And the fear of God is granted only to those who have knowledge.

There's no point in performing a great quantity of deeds and all of them are lacking in sincerity. They will all be rejected. And your efforts would all be in vain. So what should you be more concerned about? Quantity or Quality?

Proof from the Qur'an to back this principle:
“It is only those who have knowledge amongst His slaves that fear Allah.” [Soorah Al-Fatir (35): 28]

Other proof:
"Seek knowledge, because seeking it for the sake of Allah is a worship. And knowing it makes you more God-fearing; and searching for it is jihad, teaching it to those who do not know is charity, reviewing and learning it more is like tasbeeh. Through knowledge Allah will be known and worshipped. With the knowledge Allah will elevate people and make them leaders and imams, who will in turn guide other people." [Fatawa Ibn Taymiyya vol.10, p.39]
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Ramadhan
04-06-2011, 01:36 PM
Originally Posted by Flame
Sure, you can go ahead and study this very important principle of Islam. We are not at all measured by how much we have practiced Islam. On the Day of Final Reckoning, what is measured is not quantity of deeds. What is measured is the quality of deeds. And the quality of one's deeds depends upon your sincerity. And sincerity to Allah cannot be attained except by the God-fearing. And the fear of God is granted only to those who have knowledge.

I hope I am not wrong,
BUT, EVERY single one of our deeds while we are conscious (after balig/adult, not sleeping, not insane) in this life are written and WILL be measured during yaumul qiyamah. good and bad, with and without sincerity. Allah is Just, and it is up to Allah whether our good deeds are accepted and our bad deeds forgiven.
At the same time, I must also point out your point regarding sincerity is correct.

Originally Posted by Flame
There's no point in performing a great quantity of deeds and all of them are lacking in sincerity. They will all be rejected. And your efforts would all be in vain. So what should you be more concerned about? Quantity or Quality?
Both. We should strive to do as many good deeds as possible. This imply that the good deeds must be done with sincerity.
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Flame of Hope
04-06-2011, 04:58 PM
Originally Posted by naidamar
BUT, EVERY single one of our deeds while we are conscious (after balig/adult, not sleeping, not insane) in this life are written and WILL be measured during yaumul qiyamah. good and bad, with and without sincerity. Allah is Just, and it is up to Allah whether our good deeds are accepted and our bad deeds forgiven.
Sorry about that. You're right. All of our deeds will be measured. But the only deeds that will have weight are the deeds that are done with sincerity towards Allah.

Originally Posted by naidamar
Allah is Just, and it is up to Allah whether our good deeds are accepted and our bad deeds forgiven.
Indeed, Allah is The Just. He never wrongs us. We are the ones who wrong ourselves.

There are so many things that can render our deeds unacceptable. Not having knowledge of the things that can destroy or invalidate our deeds would place us in a very perilous and dangerous situation.

Allah had absolutely no need or use for all the deeds of worship offered to Him by Iblis. His one sin of disobedience, in refusal to bow down before Adam alayhis salam caused all of his deeds of worship to be utterly destroyed.

Hence, it is not at all recommended to practice Islam without knowledge...especially knowledge of the things that can completely invalidate our deeds.
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Flame of Hope
04-06-2011, 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by MustafaMc
That is one of the major things that amazes me about Christians, in how they readily and unquestioningly accept Paul as a Prophet of God and the 'gospel' that he claims in Galatians to have received as a direct revelation from God to him personally. This is in spite of him actively persecuting the Christians prior to his 'vision'.

I became aware that there were Christians who shared my understanding of Paul as the de facto originator of Christianity from a TV minister, Les Feldick, when I watched one of his shows. His show basically reiterated an article by a Christian, William Newell, who died in 1956 where he demonstrated that Paul was the one to whom the basic articles of the Christian faith were revealed. The article 'Paul's Gospel' can be read at http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/dispen/newell.htm
Jazakallah khair brother for this information. The truth is indeed clear that we cannot follow a man whose character is in doubt. :)

Wish more people would reflect upon this fact.
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Ramadhan
04-06-2011, 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by Flame
Allah had absolutely no need or use for all the deeds of worship offered to Him by Iblis. His one sin of disobedience, in refusal to bow down before Adam alayhis salam caused all of his deeds of worship to be utterly destroyed.
Iblis had so much knowledge, and yet he's going to nar forever. knowledge without wisdom leads you to the fire of hell. I've seen many people who have so much knowledge in islam, such as the "liberal" muslims but lack humility and wisdom, who reinterpret Qur'an verses to suit their whims and desires.
his sin was primarily arrogance, his disobedience was caused by his arrogance. Iblis thought that he was a better creation than Adam (as), and hence shouldn't bow to Adam (as).
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Flame of Hope
04-06-2011, 07:03 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
Abu Bakar (ra) was a close friend of the Holy Prophet (saw) even before the first verse was revealed. So when he reverted, I would presume that his prior relationship with the Holy Prophet may have some influence. Still, Abu Bakar reverted without going through a lengthy critical analysis of Islam. Perhaps if someone has some evidence that says he did, I would to study it.

Umar (ra), prior to his reversion to Islam, was very far from being a friend of the Holy Prophet. In fact, on the very day of his reversion, he had started out with a drawn sword swearing not to sheath it until he had the Holy Prophet's blood on it. Umar's acceptance of Islam, like Abu Bakar's, was instant. There was no drawn-out debate as to the why and wherefore of Islam before he reverted. Again, if someone has some evidence that says he took his time thinking about the truth and veracity of Islam before he reverted, I would like to study it.
Time for me to address the issue of the reversion of Abu Bakr and Umar radhiallahu anhum.

Brother ThisOldMan............I'd like to ask you a question. Would you trust a stranger? Would you trust him enough to put your entire life into his hands?

I'd think you would answer a big NO.

And you would say NO because your reason informs you that trusting strangers about whom you know nothing can be extremely dangerous.

So you wouldn't trust a stranger. But suppose you know the person very well and have spent enough time with him. You have seen enough to know that the man in question is reliable, honest, dependable and trustworthy. Would you trust such a man?

I hope your answer would be YES. Reason tells us that we can trust this man because he has already proved his trustworthiness through his actions.

So when the Prophet (saws) told Abu Bakr that he was the messenger of God, Abu Bakr instantly accepted it. Had it been a stranger who had come up to Abu Bakr, claiming to be a prophet of God, Abu Bakr would have immediately rejected it.

Abu Bakr used his power of reason to know that Muhammad (saws) was speaking the absolute truth and he never wavered in doubt regarding his Prophethood.

As for the reversion of Umar radhiallahu anhu, the words of the Qur'an pierced his heart, making him feel the fear and awe of God. There's no doubt that the words had a profound impact on Umar radhiallahu anhu.

A word about Umar radhiallahu anhu. He was also known as Al Farooq. This title was given to him by the Prophet (saws) because of his capability of distinguishing truth from falsehood.

So if Umar radhiallahu anhu had this wonderful capability, it follows that he knew right away, as soon as he heard the words of the Qur'an, that it was the truth. He reasoned that anything that could move him so greatly could only be from Allah, the Lord of all the worlds.

Abu Bakr and Umar radhiallahu anhum and all the sahabah used their reason to know that the Prophet (saws) was telling the truth. And they believed in the revelation that was given to him, namely the Qur'an and after accepting Islam, they CONTINUED seeking knowledge and continued using their powers of thought and reason in order to gain taqwa and nearness to Allah.

And verily, the Qur'an is a guide for the MUTTAQUN. A guide to those who fear Allah. And those who fear Allah the most are the people of knowledge.

Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu.
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MustafaMc
04-06-2011, 10:26 PM
Originally Posted by Flame
Jazakallah khair brother for this information. The truth is indeed clear that we cannot follow a man whose character is in doubt. :)

Wish more people would reflect upon this fact.
Sister Flame, I am glad that you found it beneficial. This Christian was hitting close to the mark, but he did not realize the full significance of what he was saying. As you have said about following 'a man whose character is in doubt', I wonder how many Christians have thought a jot or tittle about the character of Paul and how he was an open and vicious enemy to those who followed Jesus (as). He did not go to the disciples to learn what Jesus (as) said and did, but rather claims to have received his 'gospel' by direct revelation from Jesus (as) after his ascension.

As you illustrated in the post above regarding Abu Bakr and Umar's reversion, the character of Prophet Muhammad (saaws) was impeccable and he was well thought of by all prior to his prophethood. This reminds me of the hadith when Prophet Muhammad (saaws) called the people of Mecca to As-Safa mountain to warn them of a coming punishment and they testified prior to that of his truthfulness and also the hadith where Abu Sufyan while an enemy of Islam testified before Heraclius about the noble character of Prophet Muhammad (saaws).
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Ali Mujahidin
04-07-2011, 04:15 AM
As salaam mualaikum.

I think it's time to get back to the basics. Let's start with the kalimah tayyibah.

"Laila hailaLLah", translates roughly as "There is none worthy of worship other than Allah".

This is the core of Islam. There is no compromise or modification whatsoever about this declaration of absolute devotion to Allah.

If, for any reason whatsoever, a Muslim should consider that anything or anyone can possess any authority or power which is the sole prerogative of Allah, that person ceases to be a Muslim, instantly. Period.

For example, a man falls very ill. He is on the verge of death. A doctor attends to him. His life is saved. He thanks the doctor for saving his life. At that very moment, if he should die, he dies a kafir. Why? He is not a Muslim because he has just ascribed the power of life and death to the doctor when, in actual fact, the power of life and death is solely the prerogative of Allah.

Another example. A scientist works very hard at unraveling one of the mysteries of nature. He makes an illuminating breakthrough. He thinks that he has found out what he did by his own efforts. If he were to die at that moment, he dies a kafir. Why? He is not a Muslim because he has just ascribed the power of knowledge to his own efforts when, in actual fact, the power of knowledge is solely the the prerogative of Allah.

One more example. A person becomes interested in Islam. He studies about Islam. He finds that Islam is the truth and he accepts Islam as his way of life. He thinks that he has been able to reason out the truth of Islam with his thinking. If he were to die at that moment, he dies a kafir. Why? He is not a Muslim because he has just ascribed the power of hidayah to his own efforts at reasoning when, in actual fact, the power of hidayah is solely the prerogative of Allah.

Does this mean that learning, thinking and knowledge has no place in Islam. Not at all. Let me illustrate with a simple scenario.

Let's consider a radio. We turn a dial. Music comes forth from the radio. We turn the dial again. Spoken words comes forth from the radio. If we were primitive aboriginals, we may believe that it is the radio producing all those sounds. We may even worship the radio.

However, if we have more knowledge, we would know that it is not the radio making all those sounds. We will know that it is the radio station that is responsible for the music and the spoken words. We can see that the radio is just a tool to convey what the radio station has broadcast. We know for sure that the radio cannot produce all those sounds by itself. We understand that the radio depends totally on the radio station. We accept the fact that the radio is nothing without the radio station. So we do not worship the radio.

Likewise with us. We are not really all that much more advanced than the radio in the scenario above. We can think. We can learn. We can find knowledge. Nevertheless, we must never forget that the source of all that thinking, learning and knowledge is Allah. Just as the radio is nothing without the radio station, we are absolutely nothing without Allah.

Let's go back to the first example about the doctor. It is definitely not the doctor who saved the man's life. Allah and Allah alone can give or take life. The doctor is just a means. The source of his ability is Allah. For the man to thank the doctor for saving his life is like thanking the postman who delivers a million-dollar check. Obviously it is not the postman who wrote the check. The postman just delivered it. That's all. The correct person to thank must be the one who wrote the check.

Does this mean that a Muslim would totally dispense with the services of a doctor? Not at all. What a Muslim does is pray that Allah will guide the doctor to give the right treatment. Then thank Allah, whatever the outcome, be it life or death. Of course, it is common courtesy to thank the doctor for his effort just as we would thank the postman for delivering the million-dollar check but a Muslim never says something like "Thank you, doctor, for saving my life" because a Muslim never forgets that it is Allah and Allah alone that has the power of life and death. Actually, a Muslim doctor would brush aside any thanks given to him and ask that thanks be given to Allah instead.

How about the scientist in the second example? Really, however intelligent or clever a scientist is, he is not much more capable than a white mouse in a laboratory maze. He makes conjectures and hypotheses. He makes experiments. He makes conclusions from the results of his experiments. He may think that he is getting somewhere with his efforts but in reality, like the white mouse, he is only getting where Allah allows him to go. He is only discovering knowledge that Allah allows him to discover. There is nothing that he can find out if Allah does not allow it. If he thinks that it is his intelligence that is making all the discoveries, then he would be like a radio that thinks it is producing all those sounds by itself. Just as a radio is nothing without the radio station, the scientist is nothing without Allah.

The third example is not any more different. Anyone who thinks that he has found the truth of Islam all by his own efforts is also like the radio that thinks it is producing all those sounds by itself. Only and only with hidayah from Allah, does anyone see the truth of Islam. A person can master the Arabic language and memorize the Quran and yet not see the truth of Islam. There are plenty of websites containing detailed analyses of the Quran and the teachings and practices of Islam which do not show that the person responsible for the content knows anything about the truth of Islam. In fact, many of those websites are openly and blatantly anti-Islam.

Similarly I see some posts in this forum with copy-and-paste walls of texts with quotations from the Quran and Ahadith which do not show that the person doing it knows anything about the truth of Islam. Why? Anyone who knows about the truth of Islam will know that Islam is to be practiced and not just to be talked about. Yes, we are enjoined to spread the message but we are also enjoined to amar ma'rof nahi munkar. Amar ma'rof nahi munkar, first and foremost, requires that a Muslim takes action.

How to take action?

Allah has sent the Holy Prophet (saw) to be a example for us to follow. So, let's just do that. The Holy Prophet performed salah. We perform salah. The Holy Prophet read the Quran. We read the Quran. And so on and so forth. Learn more and more about Islam with each passing day but do not let the learning become a substitute for the actual practice of Islam. There are already so many obviously enemies of Islam who spend so much time and effort to learn about Islam with the sole objective of attacking Islam and subverting the faith of Muslims.

Just curious. Is there any Muslim who, say, does not eat pork only and only after studying, learning and getting all the knowledge about the advantages and disadvantages of eating pork?

Hope this is useful. Insha Allah.
Reply

Flame of Hope
04-07-2011, 05:52 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
If, for any reason whatsoever, a Muslim should consider that anything or anyone can possess any authority or power which is the sole prerogative of Allah, that person ceases to be a Muslim, instantly. Period.
Brother ThisOldMan, could I remind you that this thread addresses the question: how do you know that Islam is the truth?

Many brothers and sisters in this thread have stated that they know that it is the truth because they used their power of thought and reason. But it is one thing to know that it is the truth, quite another to accept it and follow it as a way of life.

Many people living during the time of the Prophet (saws) knew that Muhammad (saws) was speaking the truth when he claimed to be the messenger of God. They KNEW that Islam was the truth. But they rejected it out of pride and arrogance.

And Allah does not guide those who are proud.

This thread does not deal with Allah's guidance nor does it deal with the tricks played by Shaytan to misguide Muslims into becoming kafirs. This is a separate topic and can be discussed under another thread.
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in jihad
04-07-2011, 09:31 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
Let's go back to the first example about the doctor. It is definitely not the doctor who saved the man's life.
You're not making sense. If it had not been for the doctor, the man would have died.
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in jihad
04-07-2011, 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
Anyone who thinks that he has found the truth of Islam all by his own efforts is also like the radio that thinks it is producing all those sounds by itself.
You can't deny that if not for the efforts made by us to know the truth, Allah may not have guided us at all.

If a fisherman don't throw out his net, he ain't going to catch fish.

If a person don't seek the truth he ain't gonna find the truth. Some people don't wanna know the truth, so you think Allah is ever gonna force it on them?

Have you heard the saying "no pain, no gain" or "you reap what you sow"?
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Ummu Sufyaan
04-08-2011, 01:26 AM
You're not making sense. If it had not been for the doctor, the man would have died.
ummm i haven't exactly this whole discussion, but saw this and thought i would reply.

actually, if it had not been for Allah, then the dr, the person would have died. the dr is merely a medium in which the cure was cured.
Reply

in jihad
04-08-2011, 03:39 AM
Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
ummm i haven't exactly this whole discussion, but saw this and thought i would reply.

actually, if it had not been for Allah, then the dr, the person would have died. the dr is merely a medium in which the cure was cured.
That's true but still if it had not been for the doctor, the person would have died. I don't think it's wrong to thank the doctor for saving your life. We would be highly ungrateful if we didn't.

In a narration by Abu Said, the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: “One who does not thank people does not give thanks to Allah, either.” (Tirmidhi, Birr 35, 1955; Abu Dawud, Adab 12 4811).

So ya see. The bro makes no sense when he claims that we shouldn't thank the doctor. Becoz thanking the doctor wud B the same as thanking Allah. and what Muslim in his right mind would think that the doctor possessed the power to give life or death? If he did, then he clearly don't understand the meaning of la ilaha il allah.
Reply

Ali Mujahidin
04-08-2011, 08:34 PM
As salaam mualaikum.

Quote:
You're not making sense. If it had not been for the doctor, the man would have died.
Unquote.

You have a point there.

1. I would not be making sense to anyone who does not acknowledge the supreme power and absolute authority of Allah;

2. I would not be making sense to anyone who believes that man has capabilities superior to that of Allah's;

3. I would not be making sense to anyone who believes that Allah allows anyone or anything to share our worship of Allah.

Just curious. If it had not been for Allah, where do you think you would be now?
Reply

in jihad
04-08-2011, 10:36 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
As salaam mualaikum.

Quote:
You're not making sense. If it had not been for the doctor, the man would have died.
Unquote.

You have a point there.
Walaikum assalam bro. I think I owe you an apology. I shoulda said "This don't make sense." It was bad manners to address u directly like that. So i hope you will forgive me.
Reply

in jihad
04-08-2011, 10:40 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
One more example. A person becomes interested in Islam. He studies about Islam. He finds that Islam is the truth and he accepts Islam as his way of life. He thinks that he has been able to reason out the truth of Islam with his thinking. If he were to die at that moment, he dies a kafir. Why? He is not a Muslim because he has just ascribed the power of hidayah to his own efforts at reasoning when, in actual fact, the power of hidayah is solely the prerogative of Allah.
:sl:

Just because a person can die a kafir, don't mean that he should stop thinking and reasoning or studying islam.

In fact, if a person stop his thinking and reasoning, he would easily fall victim to Shaytan and mebbe die a kafir.

Correct me if I am wrong people.
Reply

Ummu Sufyaan
04-09-2011, 01:07 PM
Originally Posted by Fighter
That's true but still if it had not been for the doctor, the person would have died. I don't think it's wrong to thank the doctor for saving your life. We would be highly ungrateful if we didn't.

In a narration by Abu Said, the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: “One who does not thank people does not give thanks to Allah, either.” (Tirmidhi, Birr 35, 1955; Abu Dawud, Adab 12 4811).

So ya see. The bro makes no sense when he claims that we shouldn't thank the doctor. Becoz thanking the doctor wud B the same as thanking Allah. and what Muslim in his right mind would think that the doctor possessed the power to give life or death? If he did, then he clearly don't understand the meaning of la ilaha il allah.
but thanking the Dr wasn't the problem though. attributing the cure to the dr whilst he/she was merely a means tp be cured, is what the discussion is.


Just because a person can die a kafir, don't mean that he should stop thinking and reasoning or studying islam.

In fact, if a person stop his thinking and reasoning, he would easily fall victim to Shaytan and mebbe die a kafir.

Correct me if I am wrong people.
reason and thinking within Islamic boundaries (whatever those boundaries maybe-if indeed there are boundaries) is tops. reasoning outside of Islamic boundaries is a no-go zone.
Reply

in jihad
04-09-2011, 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
but thanking the Dr wasn't the problem though. attributing the cure to the dr whilst he/she was merely a means tp be cured, is what the discussion is.
Sista, you ain't read the entire post of the brother and what he trying to get at. Pleez read the whole discussion from beginning to get betta idea.

Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
eason and thinking within Islamic boundaries (whatever those boundaries maybe-if indeed there are boundaries) is tops. reasoning outside of Islamic boundaries is a no-go zone.
What in the world does this mean?
Reply

World Peace
04-09-2011, 08:58 PM

Aleacom aleacom warahmato Allah wabarakato

Hope the following is useful.


Logical Proofs

The Truth is One
islamreligion.com/articles/8/viewall

The True Religion: Which is the True Religion of God?
islamreligion.com/articles/448/viewall


Why The Religion of Islam?


islamreligion.com/articles/496

How Does Islam Differ from Other Faiths?
islamreligion.com/articles/643/viewall

A Brief Introduction to Islam
islamreligion.com/articles/1333/viewall

Seven Common Questions about Islam
islamreligion.com/articles/1562/viewall

What Drives People to Convert to Islam?
islamreligion.com/articles/1931/viewall

Accepting Islam: A religion for all People, in all Places; and the Religion of Forgiveness
islamreligion.com/articles/3727/viewall

The Core of Islam; the Origins of Islam; the Essential Beliefs of Islam; and Islamic Worship
islamreligion.com/articles/6/viewall


Wasalam aleacom
Reply

Ummu Sufyaan
04-10-2011, 09:49 AM
Sista, you ain't read the entire post of the brother and what he trying to get at. Pleez read the whole discussion from beginning to get betta idea.
really? well what part didn't i understand.

What in the world does this mean?
well you said

Just because a person can die a kafir, don't mean that he should stop thinking and reasoning or studying islam.

In fact, if a person stop his thinking and reasoning, he would easily fall victim to Shaytan and mebbe die a kafir.
and what my post meant was that as long as this thinking and reasoning that you are speaking of is within Islamic boundaries then there is nothing wrong with it. and likewise if it isn't, then it should be disregarded. i also went on to mention that im not sure what these boundaries are, if indeed there were any.
Reply

Ubeyde
04-10-2011, 06:35 PM
Here is my proof, based on Dr Zakir Naiks explanation:

In Mathematics there is to be found a theory entitled the "Theory of Probability". This theory gives the probability of an event taking place or not taking place. For example, if one is to flip a coin- there is 50% chance for it to land "heads" and 50% chance for it to land "tails". Let's say that we want to find the probability of getting three heads in succesion. Getting "heads" gives us 50% chance, then if we flip again the chance is still 50% but because it is dependent on the first event be "heads", therefore, we need to multiply 0.5 (50%) by 0.5 to give us 0.25 or 25%. Similarly, to toss the coin the third time we must multiply 0.25 by 0.5 which is 0.125 or 12.5%.

If we apply the Theory of Probability to the Qur'an, and assume that a person has guessed all of the information that is mentioned in the Qur'an that which is unknown at the time the Qur'an was revealed.

At the time the Qur'an was first revealed, people had different theories of the Earth's shape. Some believed it to be flat, or triangular, quadrangular, pentagonal, hexagonal, spherical, etc. If we assume that there could be a total of 30 different ideas on the structure of the Earth, then the chances of the Qur'an saying it is spherical is 1/30.

The light of the moon was also another aspect which was revealed. Some believed the moon to generate its own light, others believed it was reflected. The answer is that the moon appears to be illuminated due to reflection of light. So, the probabilty of the Qur'an revealing this fact is 0.5 or 1/2.

Also, up till the few decades, people did not know the structure of every living being- i.e. made of water. If we define 'living being'- this could be wood, plants, fish, steel, gold, humans, every catologued and unknown specie of animal, etc. The possible options could amount to let's say 100,000. The chance that Qur'an is correct is 1/100000 (as a general value).

Therefore, the chances of the Qur'an being correct in just these cases (there are many more) is 1/30 * 1/2 * 1/100000 - or (0.000000167). The Qur'an reveals these things centuries before the technology was there to prove it scientifically.
Reply

Ubeyde
04-10-2011, 06:37 PM
Forgot the most important bit:

The Qur'an reveals hundreds of things which were unknown at the time of revelation, and the chances that the Qur'an being correct guesses simultaneosly and not comprising of a single error if one can imagine is beyond human comprehension. Therefore, this in itself, is a proof to any logical person that the origin of the Qur'an is Divine (i.e. from Allah).
Reply

Uthman
04-10-2011, 09:10 PM
The Qur'an is unique (as far as I know) in that it doesn't just claim to be the word of the Creator and stop there. It also offers reasons as to why you should believe it is the word of the Creator. You find verses in the Qur'an such as:

"And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you should be truthful. But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers." [2:25-26]

"Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction." [4:82]

The first verse above refers to the linguistic inimitability of the Qur'an, where those who deny that it is from the Creator are challenged to produce one chapter like it. The second verse refers to the remarkable internal consistency of the Qur'an, given the fact that it was revealed over a period of 23 years, often instantaneously in response to an incident that was taking place, directing the Prophet and his followers to a course of action, or in response to a question that the Prophet was asked. Despite it never having been 'edited' or 're-drafted' over this period of revelation spanning more than two decades, never once does a verse contradict another. Moreover, the verses of the Qur'an aren't arranged chronologically in the order in which they were revealed. Rather, Muhammad (peace be upon him) instructed his companions as to the position where each verse should go. Despite this, all the verses fit together perfectly like the pieces of a puzzle to make a beautifully coherent masterpiece with unique, intricate rhythms and rhymes all serving to evoke particular reactions and emotions on the part of the reader/recitor. Again, there was never a need to edit or re-draft, as would be the case with any standard work which is the product of a human being (let alone an outstanding masterpiece). No, this was the speech of the Creator himself so why would such changes be necessary? I consider this to be one of the most profound aspects of the Qur'an's miraculous nature which not many people think about (hence the initial part of the verse). More details on it here.

Of course, there are other aspects of the Qur'an's miraculous nature from both a historical and scientific point of view, as well as prophecies. We could also talk about the miracle of it's preservation in it's original forrm, the ease by which it is memorised (to the extent that many children as young as 6 years old have easily memorised it in it's entirety, even before being able to speak normally in their own native language) and other aspects as well. But if we were to go into all that, I'm sure I'd be writing here all day. And that's no exaggeration - for the wonders of this divine book have no bound.

Another thing is that Muhammad (peace be upon him) clearly claimed to be receiving revelation from the Creator. One can only reasonably conclude that he was truthful in his claim since, by analysis of his biography, it is clear that the alternatives (that he was lying, mistaken or both) do not make sense. To claim that he mistakenly thought he was receiving revelation from the Creator of the universe for more than two decades and ended up producing what became renowned as the very standard of the Arabic tongue due to it's extraordinary linguistic excellence is of course absurd. Furthermore, Muhammad (peace be upon him) would have to be suffering from some form of mental illness to mistakenly believe such a thing, yet he showed no signs of mental deficiency in all other aspects of his life. To then resort to claiming that he must have been deliberately lying again does not stand up to scrutiny. To lie, one must have a motive. But Muhammad (peace be upon him) demonstrated that he was not motivated by wealth, power or any other material gains. Indeed, he was offered wealth and power simply to stop preaching his pure message of monotheism. He declined. In fact, he underwent a great deal of hardship just to preach his message when he could have chosen the easy way out. A cursory reading of Muhammad's life (peace be upon him) is enough to show that he cannot have been lying. If he cannot have been 'mistaken' about receiving revelation, and he demonstrably wasn't lying about it, there can only be one conclusion; he was telling the truth.
Reply

Ali Mujahidin
04-10-2011, 09:54 PM
As salaam mualaikum.

This is getting more and more interesting. Actually this is the first time that I have heard that anyone had ever thought the earth was triangular, quadrangular, hexagonal, etc. btw I heard that there is a society of people who still believed that the earth is flat.

Just curious. Do you think it is good enough that there is just one tiny little chance in a gadzillion that the Quran might not be the truth? The way I understand it, if you have any doubt about the Quran, even if your doubt is only the size of a zarah, your iman is worth a grand total of zero. With zero iman, where do you think you might end up in akhirat?

My apologies for posting a wall of text earlier. I didn't realize that some people's minds go into screen saver mode after the first ten words. So I will have to do the weird thing of quoting from my own post.

Quote:

Let's go back to the first example about the doctor. It is definitely not the doctor who saved the man's life. Allah and Allah alone can give or take life. The doctor is just a means. The source of his ability is Allah. For the man to thank the doctor for saving his life is like thanking the postman who delivers a million-dollar check. Obviously it is not the postman who wrote the check. The postman just delivered it. That's all. The correct person to thank must be the one who wrote the check.

Does this mean that a Muslim would totally dispense with the services of a doctor? Not at all. What a Muslim does is pray that Allah will guide the doctor to give the right treatment. Then thank Allah, whatever the outcome, be it life or death. Of course, it is common courtesy to thank the doctor for his effort just as we would thank the postman for delivering the million-dollar check but a Muslim never says something like "Thank you, doctor, for saving my life" because a Muslim never forgets that it is Allah and Allah alone that has the power of life and death. Actually, a Muslim doctor would brush aside any thanks given to him and ask that thanks be given to Allah instead.

Unquote.

Just in case some people's minds still go into screen saver mode after reading the first ten words of the above quote, let me state clearly here that I consider it to be common courtesy to thank the doctor for his effort. I hope my viewpoint is clear now. Insha Allah.

Regarding the question of thinking and reasoning:

Quote:

Just because a person can die a kafir, don't mean that he should stop thinking and reasoning or studying Islam.

Unquote.

I do not think it is advisable at all to take the question of "can die a kafir" so lightly. Is there really any Muslim who would really consider the possibility of doing something that might make him "die a kafir"? Does the fire of nar hold no fear for him? How about trying this? Anyone who is not afraid of the fire of nar should actually put his hand into a burning fire first, then tell us that he is prepared to take the risk of "die a kafir". Any takers?

As for thinking and reasoning, it is all fine as long as the thinking and reasoning does not lead a person to think and reason that anything or anyone is greater than Allah or that anything or anyone possesses any of the power or authority of Allah. Just to make it clear, let me state here that anyone who thinks that it is his own thinking that gives him the answers has already denied the truth that Allah and Allah alone makes anything happen. Anything includes thinking. Seriously, how can anyone think if Allah does not allow it? Have you never seen or heard of people who cannot think at all? Or have you never seen or heard of people who have gone mad from thinking too much?

Hope this is useful. Insha Allah.
Reply

Ubeyde
04-10-2011, 10:12 PM
Asalaamu Alaykum, I can give you a copy of my book to prove God's existence.. (BTW only 18 and is only a working progress)..

Everyone in the world has doubt. Doubt in the Creator, His Prohets, and His Books.

If you use my explanation as proof of the Quran being Divine, then the chances that the Quran not being Divine is like 1/10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000 %, etc. And the chances the Quran being written by Muhamad (SA) is absolute 0, 0%, zilch... because the Prophet (SA) was illiterate, i.e. was unable to read and write.

Also, the fact that Millions of Muslims throughout the History of Islam have commited the Quran to memory is proof that it is Divine. There has never been a person in my understanding memorising word-for-word 600+ pages of anything and learnt the deep meaning of something, even let's say the Bible.

Also, if you take for example, some Sahaba commited to memory 400,000+ Ahadith... which is near-on impossible to memorize word-for-word.. Allah has made aquiring knowledge an absolute zeal amongst Humans.. Idris (AS) once said: "The real joy of life is to have wisdom."

Hope this helps you and all brothers and sisters in this world to eliminate even an atom's weight of doubt. Ameen.
Reply

Ali Mujahidin
04-11-2011, 12:32 AM
As salaam mualaikum.

Quote:
Everyone in the world has doubt. Doubt in the Creator, His Prohets, and His Books.
Unquote.

Please remove ThisOldMan from your list of "everyone".

1. I have no doubt whatsoever about Allah.
2. I have no doubt whatsoever about Malaikat.
3. I have no doubt whatsoever about Kitab.
4. I have no doubt whatsoever about Rasul.
5. I have no doubt whatsoever about Kiamat.
6. I have no doubt whatsoever about Qada and Qadar.

fyi the six items above comprise the full list of Rukun Iman. I learned about them in the Malay language. In the English language, I think "Rukun Iman" would translate as "Principles of Iman". I was taught that a Muslim cannot have any doubt whatsoever about Rukun Iman. Just curious. Did you learn something different?
Reply

Ubeyde
04-11-2011, 10:01 AM
No I mean doubt as is in sometime during your life. Maybe for a split second. Sorry for not being clear.
Reply

Flame of Hope
04-11-2011, 04:24 PM
Originally Posted by Ubeyde
No I mean doubt as is in sometime during your life. Maybe for a split second. Sorry for not being clear.
You're right, Ubeyde. Good point! What a good thing it is to have doubts! Doubts can only be destroyed by using our power of thought and reasoning, which the Qur'an and Sunnah command us to do. Alhamdulillahir rabbil al ameen!

And when our doubts are destroyed, our faith (iman) gets stronger. :)
Reply

Flame of Hope
04-11-2011, 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by Ubeyde
Everyone in the world has doubt. Doubt in the Creator, His Prohets, and His Books.

If you use my explanation as proof of the Quran being Divine, then the chances that the Quran not being Divine is like 1/10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000 %, etc. And the chances the Quran being written by Muhamad (SA) is absolute 0, 0%, zilch... because the Prophet (SA) was illiterate, i.e. was unable to read and write.

Also, the fact that Millions of Muslims throughout the History of Islam have commited the Quran to memory is proof that it is Divine. There has never been a person in my understanding memorising word-for-word 600+ pages of anything and learnt the deep meaning of something, even let's say the Bible.

Also, if you take for example, some Sahaba commited to memory 400,000+ Ahadith... which is near-on impossible to memorize word-for-word.. Allah has made aquiring knowledge an absolute zeal amongst Humans.. Idris (AS) once said: "The real joy of life is to have wisdom."

Hope this helps you and all brothers and sisters in this world to eliminate even an atom's weight of doubt. Ameen.
Not even an atom's weight of doubt remains. :)

Jazakallah khair for a very interesting and valuable post.
Reply

Flame of Hope
04-11-2011, 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by Uthmān
The Qur'an is unique (as far as I know) in that it doesn't just claim to be the word of the Creator and stop there. It also offers reasons as to why you should believe it is the word of the Creator. You find verses in the Qur'an such as:

"And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you should be truthful. But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers." [2:25-26]

"Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction." [4:82]

The first verse above refers to the linguistic inimitability of the Qur'an, where those who deny that it is from the Creator are challenged to produce one chapter like it. The second verse refers to the remarkable internal consistency of the Qur'an, given the fact that it was revealed over a period of 23 years, often instantaneously in response to an incident that was taking place, directing the Prophet and his followers to a course of action, or in response to a question that the Prophet was asked. Despite it never having been 'edited' or 're-drafted' over this period of revelation spanning more than two decades, never once does a verse contradict another. Moreover, the verses of the Qur'an aren't arranged chronologically in the order in which they were revealed. Rather, Muhammad (peace be upon him) instructed his companions as to the position where each verse should go. Despite this, all the verses fit together perfectly like the pieces of a puzzle to make a beautifully coherent masterpiece with unique, intricate rhythms and rhymes all serving to evoke particular reactions and emotions on the part of the reader/recitor. Again, there was never a need to edit or re-draft, as would be the case with any standard work which is the product of a human being (let alone an outstanding masterpiece). No, this was the speech of the Creator himself so why would such changes be necessary? I consider this to be one of the most profound aspects of the Qur'an's miraculous nature which not many people think about (hence the initial part of the verse). More details on it here.

Of course, there are other aspects of the Qur'an's miraculous nature from both a historical and scientific point of view, as well as prophecies. We could also talk about the miracle of it's preservation in it's original forrm, the ease by which it is memorised (to the extent that many children as young as 6 years old have easily memorised it in it's entirety, even before being able to speak normally in their own native language) and other aspects as well. But if we were to go into all that, I'm sure I'd be writing here all day. And that's no exaggeration - for the wonders of this divine book have no bound.

Another thing is that Muhammad (peace be upon him) clearly claimed to be receiving revelation from the Creator. One can only reasonably conclude that he was truthful in his claim since, by analysis of his biography, it is clear that the alternatives (that he was lying, mistaken or both) do not make sense. To claim that he mistakenly thought he was receiving revelation from the Creator of the universe for more than two decades and ended up producing what became renowned as the very standard of the Arabic tongue due to it's extraordinary linguistic excellence is of course absurd. Furthermore, Muhammad (peace be upon him) would have to be suffering from some form of mental illness to mistakenly believe such a thing, yet he showed no signs of mental deficiency in all other aspects of his life. To then resort to claiming that he must have been deliberately lying again does not stand up to scrutiny. To lie, one must have a motive. But Muhammad (peace be upon him) demonstrated that he was not motivated by wealth, power or any other material gains. Indeed, he was offered wealth and power simply to stop preaching his pure message of monotheism. He declined. In fact, he underwent a great deal of hardship just to preach his message when he could have chosen the easy way out. A cursory reading of Muhammad's life (peace be upon him) is enough to show that he cannot have been lying. If he cannot have been 'mistaken' about receiving revelation, and he demonstrably wasn't lying about it, there can only be one conclusion; he was telling the truth.
Excellent post, brother! Jazakallah khair for the insight.
Reply

in jihad
04-12-2011, 04:52 AM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
I do not think it is advisable at all to take the question of "can die a kafir" so lightly. Is there really any Muslim who would really consider the possibility of doing something that might make him "die a kafir"? Does the fire of nar hold no fear for him? How about trying this? Anyone who is not afraid of the fire of nar should actually put his hand into a burning fire first, then tell us that he is prepared to take the risk of "die a kafir". Any takers?
May i ask what makes u think that the brothers and sisters here in this forum take the question of "can die a kafir" lightly?
Reply

Ubeyde
04-12-2011, 03:16 PM
I have found proof that Islam is the true religion even by looking at the Bible. For example, it says that there will be the Final Revelation given to an illeterate Prophet in Arabia- which proves that even Christians must accept Rasoola Sallahu Alayhi wa salam as their Nabi.
Reply

AhmedMalik
04-17-2011, 08:42 AM
Your point is well made. I came across Understanding Islam App on my iPad and the point was really well made there. Does anyone know about who made it? Does anyone know who Dr Hewer is?
Reply

Jalal~
04-21-2011, 01:55 AM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
So to all my brothers and sisters in Islam, I would like to suggest that it would do all of us a lot more good to do a little less thinking about it and do a little more practicing Islam. Shaytan, I am very sure, is perfectly happy if everyone would spend their whole lives studying Islam and not practicing it at all.
your right, we should do a lot more practicing in Islam, but reasoning is just as imporant. I know for a fact that Islam is one of the few religions that encourages its followers to study other religions and understand WHY you are following Islam. I dont want to come up to Allah and say "I only followed Islam cause i was born a Muslim" No, i want to say "I studied Islam and many other religions throughout the life you gave me and through rational thinking i was able to see that all other religions are false and that Islam is the one and true religion (i.e. i didnt follow my faith blindly)". Now obviously, i cant make that last statement right now, im only 16, and i havent studied all the religions yet, but Insha Allah, if Allah grants me a long life, I will be able to say that on the Day of Judgement and Insha Allah, the Prophet Muhammed (May Peace be upon him) and the Qu'ran will be able to come and intervene on all Muslim believer's behalf.

And yes, Shaytan is probably happy when people dont follow the religion correctly.
And Allah knows best.
Reply

Flame of Hope
04-21-2011, 05:15 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by halalmeat4free
I know for a fact that Islam is one of the few religions that encourages its followers to study other religions and understand WHY you are following Islam. I dont want to come up to Allah and say "I only followed Islam cause i was born a Muslim" No, i want to say "I studied Islam and many other religions throughout the life you gave me and through rational thinking i was able to see that all other religions are false and that Islam is the one and true religion (i.e. i didnt follow my faith blindly)".
Mashallah! You demonstrate a keen understanding of faith. May Allah keep on the Straight Path and keep your footsteps firm. Ameen.
Reply

aboelwafa
04-22-2011, 03:41 AM
quran thank you
Reply

Futuwwa
04-25-2011, 11:13 AM
After eight years of reflecting on-off, back and forth, I just had to conclude that Islam is a completely rational religion. Both in terms of internal consistency and in corresponding to the external world. What amazed me was how pretty much all common polemics against the existence of God fell flat against Islam, how it stood up to assault like no other.
Reply

Flame of Hope
05-15-2011, 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
What amazed me was how pretty much all common polemics against the existence of God fell flat against Islam, how it stood up to assault like no other.
:sl:

Indeed the history of Islam is sufficient proof of God's existence. Watch this video....it's about The Sword of Allah......no one who watches it can deny that it was Allah's power that ruled in those battlefields, that a religion other than Islam could not have instilled in the hearts of those Muslim warriors the ferocity with which they fought and then caused them to emerge victorious...despite the incredible odds against them.

HISTORY IS THE BIGGEST PROOF OF ALLAH'S EXISTENCE.....

for example is there any possibility that a small army comprising of just 40,000 Muslims should defeat a gargantuan army of 250,000 soldiers? Well, it's possible with Allah's help.....and this is witnessed in the incredible battle of Yarmouk.

The narration in the video is in Urdu, I believe. But with the English subtitles one may follow the story.....



Watch this video and it will be clear to all that ISLAM IS THE TRUTH.

Alhamdulillahir rabbil al ameen!
Reply

Amanda
05-16-2011, 01:54 PM
I know it isn't an easily defended position, but it just comes from the feeling of peace and the inner knowledge of truth that I had after finding Islam... no other religion gave me that same feeling... so I just knew.
Reply

Impey
05-26-2011, 10:29 AM
Originally Posted by Amanda
I know it isn't an easily defended position, but it just comes from the feeling of peace and the inner knowledge of truth that I had after finding Islam... no other religion gave me that same feeling... so I just knew.
May I ask what others you tried - I quite understand if you don't want to say
Reply

Impey
05-31-2011, 08:32 PM
Originally Posted by Flame
Indeed the history of Islam is sufficient proof of God's existence. Watch this video....it's about The Sword of Allah......no one who watches it can deny that it was Allah's power that ruled in those battlefields, that a religion other than Islam could not have instilled in the hearts of those Muslim warriors the ferocity with which they fought and then caused them to emerge victorious...despite the incredible odds against them. HISTORY IS THE BIGGEST PROOF OF ALLAH'S EXISTENCE.....for example is there any possibility that a small army comprising of just 40,000 Muslims should defeat a gargantuan army of 250,000 soldiers? Well, it's possible with Allah's help.....and this is witnessed in the incredible battle of Yarmouk.

The narration in the video is in Urdu, I believe. But with the English subtitles one may follow the story.....
Watch this video and it will be clear to all that ISLAM IS THE TRUTH.

Alhamdulillahir rabbil al ameen!
Interesting, but could not one here just say that God is always on the side of the oppressed no matter who they are, Muslims or not?
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Flame of Hope
05-31-2011, 08:55 PM
Originally Posted by Impey
Interesting, but could not one here just say that God is always on the side of the oppressed no matter who they are, Muslims or not?
Yes, this would become supremely evident on The Day of Judgement, when all oppressors will have to pay for their deeds.
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Who Am I?
05-31-2011, 09:04 PM
All I know is, I feel like I'm being led toward Islam, which goes against everything I have ever been taught. It is a little scary I admit, but yet somehow I'm not that alarmed by it. Maybe it's just my inquisitive nature, but something is drawing me in...
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Ramadhan
06-01-2011, 06:01 AM
Originally Posted by Impey
Interesting, but could not one here just say that God is always on the side of the oppressed no matter who they are, Muslims or not?

There is a hadeeth (can't remember the detail) which says that Allah SWT readily answer/accepts the du'a (supplications) from the oppressed, and Allah SWT (in many Qur'an verses) forbid oppression.
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Ramadhan
06-01-2011, 06:06 AM
Originally Posted by Just a Guy
All I know is, I feel like I'm being led toward Islam, which goes against everything I have ever been taught. It is a little scary I admit, but yet somehow I'm not that alarmed by it. Maybe it's just my inquisitive nature, but something is drawing me in...

Every soul was imprinted with the knowledge of tawheed (oneness of God) and already taken oath that acknowledge the existence of Allah and submit to Him. This is called fitrah (pure natural state of human), and the fitrah of every person is Islam.
However, circumstances of the birth made a person jew, christian, etc., but each person still maintain that imprint of tawheed, therefore during the lifetime when they get properly introduced to Islam, they would subconsciously recognize it as the truth and hence drawn to it. I think this is what is happening with you, despite all the misinformation about Islam that you have received before.
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MustafaMc
06-01-2011, 12:16 PM
Originally Posted by Impey
Interesting, but could not one here just say that God is always on the side of the oppressed no matter who they are, Muslims or not?
A couple hadith came to mind:

Narrated Abu Ma'bad,: Allah's Apostle said to Muadh when he sent him to Yemen, "You will go to the people of the Scripture. So, when you reach there, invite them to testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah, and that Muhammad is His Apostle. And if they obey you in that, tell them that Allah has enjoined on them five prayers in each day and night. And if they obey you in that tell them that Allah has made it obligatory on them to pay the Zakat which will be taken from the rich among them and given to the poor among them. If they obey you in that, then avoid taking the best of their possessions, and be afraid of the curse of an oppressed person because there is no screen between his invocation and Allah."

and

Narrated Anas: Allah's Apostle said, "Help your brother whether he is an oppressor or an oppressed," A man said, "O Allah's Apostle! I will help him if he is oppressed, but if he is an oppressor, how shall I help him?" The Prophet said, "By preventing him from oppressing (others), for that is how to help him."
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Who Am I?
06-01-2011, 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by Ramadhan


Every soul was imprinted with the knowledge of tawheed (oneness of God) and already taken oath that acknowledge the existence of Allah and submit to Him. This is called fitrah (pure natural state of human), and the fitrah of every person is Islam.
However, circumstances of the birth made a person jew, christian, etc., but each person still maintain that imprint of tawheed, therefore during the lifetime when they get properly introduced to Islam, they would subconsciously recognize it as the truth and hence drawn to it. I think this is what is happening with you, despite all the misinformation about Islam that you have received before.
That makes sense and describes what is happening to me right now...
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Impey
06-01-2011, 09:49 PM
Originally Posted by MustafaMc
A couple hadith came to mind: Narrated Abu Ma'bad,: Allah's Apostle said to Muadh when he sent him to Yemen, "You will go to the people of the Scripture. So, when you reach there, invite them to testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah, and that Muhammad is His Apostle. And if they obey you in that, tell them that Allah has enjoined on them five prayers in each day and night. And if they obey you in that tell them that Allah has made it obligatory on them to pay the Zakat which will be taken from the rich among them and given to the poor among them. If they obey you in that, then avoid taking the best of their possessions, and be afraid of the curse of an oppressed person because there is no screen between his invocation and Allah." and Narrated Anas: Allah's Apostle said, "Help your brother whether he is an oppressor or an oppressed," A man said, "O Allah's Apostle! I will help him if he is oppressed, but if he is an oppressor, how shall I help him?" The Prophet said, "By preventing him from oppressing (others), for that is how to help him."
Interesting. The first hadith seem to allow oppression with the words "avoid taking the best.." as if taking what is not the best is ok? Whilst the second is a much more positive way of dealing with oppression. Anyway, I saw this on CNN so perhaps you would comment on who is being oppressed h t t p : / / edition. cnn. com / 2011 / WORLD /meast/ 05 /31/ iran. bahai/ index. html

I just give a summary here: The Baha'i faith, founded in Iran, is considered blasphemous, Now, 16 Baha'i professors have been arrested for helping followers get advanced degrees, A government newspaper calls it "a cover for the propagation of the Baha'i faith".

Now it seem clear to me the Baha'i faith is being oppressed - what do you think?
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Impey
06-01-2011, 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by Flame

Yes, this would become supremely evident on The Day of Judgement, when all oppressors will have to pay for their deeds.
Well, if there is a God you may well be right. But do you think you can sort of names oppressors now or must one wait and see in each case?
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Flame of Hope
06-01-2011, 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by Impey
Well, if there is a God you may well be right. But do you think you can sort of names oppressors now or must one wait and see in each case?
There's something called repentance. All of us do wrong and oppress one another at some time or another. But if we repent, we have hope of receiving God's mercy.

So the one who is an oppressor today might repent SINCERELY tomorrow and be of those who are forgiven, even if their oppression filled the entire earth.

Those who fail to repent and continue with their oppression will be the losers.......... whether they are Muslims or not. All oppressors who do not repent will pay for their deeds.
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Ramadhan
06-02-2011, 04:51 AM
Originally Posted by Impey
Interesting. The first hadith seem to allow oppression with the words "avoid taking the best.." as if taking what is not the best is ok? Whilst the second is a much more positive way of dealing with oppression. Anyway, I saw this on CNN so perhaps you would comment on who is being oppressed h t t p : / / edition. cnn. com / 2011 / WORLD /meast/ 05 /31/ iran. bahai/ index. html I just give a summary here: The Baha'i faith, founded in Iran, is considered blasphemous, Now, 16 Baha'i professors have been arrested for helping followers get advanced degrees, A government newspaper calls it "a cover for the propagation of the Baha'i faith". Now it seem clear to me the Baha'i faith is being oppressed - what do you think?

I am refraining to comment on the story as I don't have full facts.

But one thing is for sure: propagation of other faith in an Islamic state is not allowed. You may see it as an oppression, but the rule is clear on this, even though many non-muslims citizens will always try to break this rule. Example: in Indonesia, the largest muslim country, christian missionaries keep breaking the rules using all kinds of methods to propagate their belief. The government unfortunately is not being strict on this clear cut violation of law.
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MustafaMc
06-02-2011, 11:38 AM
Originally Posted by Impey
Interesting. The first hadith seem to allow oppression with the words "avoid taking the best.." as if taking what is not the best is ok? Whilst the second is a much more positive way of dealing with oppression.
This directive is regarding zakat in general which is a charity tax due upon Muslims; whereas jisyah is due upon non-Muslims in an Islamic state. This does not refer to oppression or injustice, but provides guidelines to the Islamic state basically on tax collecting.
Anyway, I saw this on CNN so perhaps you would comment on who is being oppressed h t t p : / / edition. cnn. com / 2011 / WORLD /meast/ 05 /31/ iran. bahai/ index. html

I just give a summary here: The Baha'i faith, founded in Iran, is considered blasphemous, Now, 16 Baha'i professors have been arrested for helping followers get advanced degrees, A government newspaper calls it "a cover for the propagation of the Baha'i faith".

Now it seem clear to me the Baha'i faith is being oppressed - what do you think?
From Wikipedia:

Bahá'ís continue to be persecuted in Islamic countries, as Islamic leaders do not recognize the Bahá'í Faith as an independent religion, but rather as apostasy from Islam. The most severe persecutions have occurred in Iran, where over 200 Bahá'ís were executed between 1978 and 1998, and in Egypt.

My understanding is that a tolerance has been allowed in Islam such that the Christians and the Jews living within an Islamic state are free to practice their religion if they pay the jizyah tax and do not openly work to spread their religion. The same rights do not apply to idolators or apostates from Islam and deviant sects that include the Baha'i as well as Ahmadiyah. This is only my perspective and Allah (swt) knows best.

You may extend your concept of perceived oppression to alcohol consumption, homosexuality or sexual immorality. In Islam there is the concept of encouraging the good and forbidding the evil as opposed to the tolerance for immorality in the West.
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Riana17
06-02-2011, 11:49 AM
Salam

It is the only religion that holds Allah as One, Unique, and Perfect

It is the only religion that believes in the sole worship of Allah, not human, not an idol, and not an angel, only Allah.

The Quran contains scientific facts, which are 1300 years ahead of their time. The Quran, while revealed 1400 years ago contains scientific facts, which are only now being discovered. It is not in contradiction to science.

The Quran does not contain contradictions.

Allah has challenged the world to produce the like of the Quran. And He says they won't be able to.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the most influential man in history. In the book "The 100 most influential men in History", written by non-Muslim, the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was #1. Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) was #3.
He had many prophecies, and all of his prophecies have come true, or are still coming true
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Who Am I?
06-02-2011, 02:30 PM
Interesting turn here, because I talked about this very thing with the brother at the masjid yesterday, about Islamic sharia law and how it keeps order in society. For me as a Western non-Muslim (for now), Sharia is a scary word. I used to even tell people that the "one-world government" talked about in Revelations would be Islamic Sharia law. I was terrified of it.

Now I'm not so afraid of Sharia anymore. I think it's taken out of context when used by Western media, just like most things pertaining to Islam.
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Impey
06-02-2011, 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by Flame
There's something called repentance. All of us do wrong and oppress one another at some time or another. But if we repent, we have hope of receiving God's mercy. So the one who is an oppressor today might repent SINCERELY tomorrow and be of those who are forgiven, even if their oppression filled the entire earth.Those who fail to repent and continue with their oppression will be the losers.......... whether they are Muslims or not. All oppressors who do not repent will pay for their deeds.
This is an interesting response and of course I appreciate that repentance is necessary. Do you think that repentance always has to come before forgiveness - what I mean is God might take the initiative and seeks us out before we are even perhaps aware of it - I ma not entirely sure but that seems to be the Christian way, is it like that in Islam?
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Impey
06-02-2011, 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by Ramadhan
I am refraining to comment on the story as I don't have full facts. But one thing is for sure: propagation of other faith in an Islamic state is not allowed. You may see it as an oppression, but the rule is clear on this, even though many non-muslims citizens will always try to break this rule. Example: in Indonesia, the largest muslim country, christian missionaries keep breaking the rules using all kinds of methods to propagate their belief. The government unfortunately is not being strict on this clear cut violation of law.
Thanks for the clarity. Though I can see it from Islam's point of view it does seem to take away, well violate what I would call a natural freedom, that is the freedom to believe and the freedom to tell others about it (this could of course include things other than religion: evolution, communism, democracy etc . Two questions - How do you feel about this 'law', are you for it or against it and how would you feel if a Western nation had a similar law forbidding the propagation of Islam?
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Flame of Hope
06-02-2011, 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by Impey
This is an interesting response and of course I appreciate that repentance is necessary. Do you think that repentance always has to come before forgiveness - what I mean is God might take the initiative and seeks us out before we are even perhaps aware of it - I ma not entirely sure but that seems to be the Christian way, is it like that in Islam?
God can choose to forgive you even if you haven't repented. He might be pleased with just one act of yours and hey presto! All your sins have been forgiven and you are admitted to Paradise. It can also work the other way round. You might have done a lot of good deeds. But He might be displeased with just one act of yours..... and boom! You're sent to Hell.

So it's better to be on the safer side and repent.... better to be humble and fear what's going to happen to you and repeatedly seek God's forgiveness.

By the way, I thought I might say this.... I am glad that you find Islam interesting enough to investigate. :) I hope you will have your questions answered satisfactorily in this forum.
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Impey
06-02-2011, 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by MustafaMc
This directive is regarding zakat in general which is a charity tax due upon Muslims; whereas jisyah is due upon non-Muslims in an Islamic state. This does not refer to oppression or injustice, but provides guidelines to the Islamic state basically on tax collecting.From Wikipedia:

Bahá'ís continue to be persecuted in Islamic countries, as Islamic leaders do not recognize the Bahá'í Faith as an independent religion, but rather as apostasy from Islam. The most severe persecutions have occurred in Iran, where over 200 Bahá'ís were executed between 1978 and 1998, and in Egypt.

My understanding is that a tolerance has been allowed in Islam such that the Christians and the Jews living within an Islamic state are free to practice their religion if they pay the jizyah tax and do not openly work to spread their religion. The same rights do not apply to idolators or apostates from Islam and deviant sects that include the Baha'i as well as Ahmadiyah. This is only my perspective and Allah (swt) knows best. You may extend your concept of perceived oppression to alcohol consumption, homosexuality or sexual immorality. In Islam there is the concept of encouraging the good and forbidding the evil as opposed to the tolerance for immorality in the West.
Thank you for a very clear post. Of course we have to have laws so I am not suggesting that freedom be absolute. However, the problem for me comes when one part of society claims special authority and its an authority where some claim they are speaking for God. Here for example you speak of immorality in the West as if under Islamic rule it does not exist - for example, to me it is immoral to have more than one wife and I am told (can you confirm this?) a man is even allowed to have sex with ones slave girls? The other issue I would have here is that it is as if Islam is the only possible way to decide what is good - is this how you see it?

A man can never be stopped from thinking whatever he chooses so long as he conceals what he thinks. But this natural liberty of private thinking is of little value and even painful to the person himself, if he is not allowed to communicate his thoughts (which may be valuable) to others. I think it is extremely difficult to hide thoughts that have any power over the mind. If a man’s thinking means he questions ideas and customs which regulate the behaviour of those about him, to reject beliefs which they hold, to see better ways of life than those they follow, it is almost impossible for him, if he is convinced of the truth of his own reasoning, not to betray by silence, chance words, or general attitude that he is different from them and does not share their opinions. Some have preferred, like Socrates, some would prefer to-day, to face death rather than conceal their thoughts.
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Impey
06-02-2011, 07:32 PM
Originally Posted by Flame
God can choose to forgive you even if you haven't repented. He might be pleased with just one act of yours and hey presto! All your sins have been forgiven and you are admitted to Paradise. It can also work the other way round. You might have done a lot of good deeds. But He might be displeased with just one act of yours..... and boom! You're sent to Hell.

So it's better to be on the safer side and repent.... better to be humble and fear what's going to happen to you and repeatedly seek God's forgiveness.

By the way, I thought I might say this.... I am glad that you find Islam interesting enough to investigate. :) I hope you will have your questions answered satisfactorily in this forum.
Yes, its nice to be with you and just feel free to contribute and listen. Here I must say I feel a little startled as it sounds as if God is a little on the whimsical side doling his forgiveness out as he pleases with some sort of scale of goodness. In life there is usually a consequence, a cost to actions. So if I murder your brother (just in imagination), you may forgive me whether I repent or no and that is fine but your brother is still dead so one way or another there is a cost to forgiveness. Is this how you see it or how Islam treats God?
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