/* */

PDA

View Full Version : Why Islam alow to have sex with the slave without marry ?



hopeonallah
03-08-2011, 09:58 PM
I heard Islam allow to have sex with your slave without marry her . Is it true ? If yes then why ? If its not true then educate me what exactly Islam says about slavery in details please .
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Woodrow
03-08-2011, 10:31 PM
Just a very simple answer. Show me anyplace in the Qur'an where it says a man is permitted to have relations with a slave, without marrying her first.
Reply

manaal
03-09-2011, 04:13 PM
I have heard this too.

There is a hadeeth in Sahih Muslim regarding the performance of 'azl (i'm sorry i don't have the reference). Jabir Bin Abdullah (RA) reported that a man approached the Prophet (SAW) and said tht he wanted to have sexual relations with his slave girl but did not want her to get pregnant. To this Rasulullah replied "perform 'azl with her if you wish, for indeed whatever has been decreed for her will reach her".

So doesn't this prove that it is allowed?
Reply

Huzzy_786
03-09-2011, 04:18 PM
Me too.

Woodrow, ive heard that when the muslims won the battle and there were women left after the battle they wouldnt kill them but take them as slave girls, and then they can do as they wish with them...

Sell them or let them go free! Anything they wish!


Correct me if i am wrong.imsad

:wa:
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Zuzubu
03-09-2011, 04:26 PM
Guys, really. The qur'an and the sahih hadith got many verses saying this. It is permitable. AS LONG AS THE FEMALE AGREES ON IT! Do you wish to see some proves?
Reply

Zuzubu
03-09-2011, 04:30 PM
Qur'an (33:50) - "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee" This is a special command that Muhammad handed down to himself, allowing himself virtually unlimited sex. Others are limited to four wives, but may also have sex with an unlimited number of slaves, as the following verse make clear:

Qur'an (23:5-6) - "..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess..." This verse allows the slave-owner to have sex with his slaves. See also Qur'an (70:29-30).

Qur'an (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." Even sex with married slaves is permissible.

Qur'an (8:69) - "But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good" A reference to war booty, of which slaves were a part. The Muslim slave master may enjoy his "catch" because (according to verse 71) "Allah gave you mastery over them."

Qur'an (24:32) - "And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves..." Breeding slaves based on fitness.

Qur'an (2:178) - "O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female." The message of this verse, which prescribes the rules of retaliation for murder, is that all humans are not created equal. The human value of a slave is less than that of a free person (and a woman's worth is also distinguished from that of a man's).

Qur'an (16:75) - "Allah sets forth the Parable (of two men: one) a slave under the dominion of another; He has no power of any sort; and (the other) a man on whom We have bestowed goodly favours from Ourselves, and he spends thereof (freely), privately and publicly: are the two equal? (By no means;) praise be to Allah." Yet another confirmation that the slave is is not equal to the master. In this case it is plain that the slave owes his status to Allah's will. (According to 16:71, the owner should be careful about insulting Allah by bestowing Allah's gifts on slaves - those whom the god of Islam has not favored).
Reply

Huzzy_786
03-09-2011, 04:31 PM
Jazakallah for that brother, Refreashed my memory :)
Reply

IAmZamzam
03-09-2011, 05:01 PM
And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (24:33)
Reply

Ghazalah
03-09-2011, 05:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zuzubu
Qur'an (33:50) - "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee" This is a special command that Muhammad handed down to himself, allowing himself virtually unlimited sex. Others are limited to four wives, but may also have sex with an unlimited number of slaves, as the following verse make clear:

Qur'an (23:5-6) - "..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess..." This verse allows the slave-owner to have sex with his slaves. See also Qur'an (70:29-30).

Qur'an (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." Even sex with married slaves is permissible.

Qur'an (8:69) - "But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good" A reference to war booty, of which slaves were a part. The Muslim slave master may enjoy his "catch" because (according to verse 71) "Allah gave you mastery over them."

Qur'an (24:32) - "And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves..." Breeding slaves based on fitness.

Qur'an (2:178) - "O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female." The message of this verse, which prescribes the rules of retaliation for murder, is that all humans are not created equal. The human value of a slave is less than that of a free person (and a woman's worth is also distinguished from that of a man's).

Qur'an (16:75) - "Allah sets forth the Parable (of two men: one) a slave under the dominion of another; He has no power of any sort; and (the other) a man on whom We have bestowed goodly favours from Ourselves, and he spends thereof (freely), privately and publicly: are the two equal? (By no means;) praise be to Allah." Yet another confirmation that the slave is is not equal to the master. In this case it is plain that the slave owes his status to Allah's will. (According to 16:71, the owner should be careful about insulting Allah by bestowing Allah's gifts on slaves - those whom the god of Islam has not favored).

:sl:

I'm having trouble stomaching these ayats. As I've done tafsir of the Quran people tend to me ask on all kinds of ayats but with these ayats I struggle.. :hiding:

Firstly, the man must be gain permission of the slave before intercourse, yes?
Secondly, wouldn't the wives at the time feel somewhat jealous? I know I would certainly would if I lived at the time! :embarrass Which brings me to ask does he need permission of the wife to have intercourse with the slave?

Does this only apply to the time of the Prophet? I know maids are around these days would that mean she holds the same status as a slave? And lastly, with everything in Islam there is always wisdom behind everything, and I'm still ignorant on this subject as I do not know what the wisdom is.


We are encouraged to speak if we have doubts/misunderstanding on the religion and I really hope someone will shade some light on this for me.. Jazakum Allahu Khairan! :statisfie
Reply

manaal
03-09-2011, 05:08 PM
Brother Zuzubu, do I detect a note of sarcasm in your post?
Reply

Perseveranze
03-09-2011, 05:11 PM
Asalaamu Alaikum,

If she got pregnant, then she would be free. I remember reading about this in depth, kinda forgotten now, but there's a good explanation for why it's allowed.
Reply

Zuzubu
03-09-2011, 05:24 PM
As you may know, slaves in Islam are treated very well, and many times the man decides to marry the woman, and remmmember that the son of the woman is both son of the mom and dad. =)

Manaal, there is no sarcasm, where do you see that? If you got against qur'an it is not me who you should complain on, but I can show some more verses, there are plenty. Just look it up in www.searchtruth.com

Ghazalah, wont the woman be jealous if there is more than 1 wife?

And no, a MAID IS NOT A SLAVE! A slave is someone who is taken as war bounty. The prophet married one himself. This applies for ALL TIMES, the qur'an = APPLY FOR ALL TIMES! But, there is no such war, and haven't been that war many years, so if someone has a slave, it is haram. If it was 500-1400 years ago, then a slave was permitted, because there was many wars. (sword fights). You can't go in war with the taliban, and say that their ladies are ur slaves, it has to be a proper war before capturing bounty.
Reply

Ghazalah
03-09-2011, 05:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zuzubu
Ghazalah, wont the woman be jealous if there is more than 1 wife?
Having intercourse with a slave is quite different then having intercourse with a second wife IMO. With the slave it would seem like he's not satisfied with his current wife and so he finds somewhere else to fulfil his desires having intercourse with a wife is not the same some obviously will not agree with it but that's not my main concern here.

format_quote Originally Posted by Zuzubu
And no, a MAID IS NOT A SLAVE! A slave is someone who is taken as war bounty. The prophet married one himself. This applies for ALL TIMES, the qur'an = APPLY FOR ALL TIMES! But, there is no such war, and haven't been that war many years, so if someone has a slave, it is haram. If it was 500-1400 years ago, then a slave was permitted, because there was many wars. (sword fights)
I don't understand what you're saying about wars, why is that relevant? But the maid is not the same as slave okay. Jazak Allahu Khair. :)
Reply

Zuzubu
03-09-2011, 05:39 PM
If females get jealous, I am happy I am not a female. And I am happy that your husband don't have slaves then. ;)

About wars I mean that female slaves can be war bounty and not people you pay for (prostitution etc.)
Reply

Hannah.
03-09-2011, 07:07 PM
I don't understand why a man is permitted to do that. Yeah okay fine, he can go marry another woman.. but doing it with a slave girl he isn't even married to? :/
Reply

Alpha Dude
03-09-2011, 07:09 PM
These women captives used to be distributed as part of the booty among the soldiers, after their return to Islamic territory. Each soldier was then entitled to have relations ONLY with the slave girl over which he was given the RIGHT OF OWNERSHIP and NOT with those slave girls that were not in his possession. This RIGHT OF OWNERSHIP was given to him by the "Ameerul-Mu'mineen" (Head of the Islamic state.) Due to this right of ownership, It became lawful for the owner of a slave girl to have intercourse with her.

...

Nevertheless, the wisdom underlying the permission granted by Shariat to copulate with a slave woman is as follows: The LEGAL possession that a Muslim receives over a slave woman from the "Ameerul-Mu'mineen" (the Islamic Head of State) gives him legal credence to have coition with the slave woman in his possession, just as the marriage ceremony gives him legal credence to have coition with his wife. In other words, this LEGAL POSSESSION is, in effect, a SUBSTITUTE of the MARRIAGE CEREMONY. A free woman cannot be 'possessed', bought or sold like other possessions; therefore Shariat instituted a 'marriage ceremony' in which affirmation and consent takes place, which gives a man the right to copulate with her. On the other hand, a slave girl can be possessed and even bought and sold, thus, this right of possession, substituting as a marriage ceremony, entitles the owner to copulate with her.
http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...055b2870a0ae8f
Reply

Alpha Dude
03-09-2011, 07:11 PM
As above, once a man comes into possession of a slave girl, it is considered a 'contract' much like a marriage contract.
Reply

GuestFellow
03-09-2011, 07:17 PM
^ Best response so far.
Reply

3rddec
03-09-2011, 07:56 PM
When Christ was asked why the ancient jews were allowed to have wives and concubines he made clear what he thought; a man should only have one wife; divorce was only permissable for adultry and even to look at a woman lustfully was sinful. He explained that the reason the ancient jews were allowed to do as they did was because the were to ignorant to be able to understand fully the perfect order of marraige to one woman. I wonder did Mohammed have the same problem and has the Muslim world developed more spiritual insight and believe in one man and one woman for life.

Love and Respect
Reply

Huzzy_786
03-09-2011, 08:14 PM
Well from what i know, men were allowed to collect slave women from battle fields, but it wouldnt apply now as there are no battles with swords and hores now a days... Also i am sure the people who do collect slave women dont have sex but insted make them work around there house etc, or if they wanted to do something to the slave girl they probobaly asked there wifes.

format_quote Originally Posted by Bedouin
As above, once a man comes into possession of a slave girl, it is considered a 'contract' much like a marriage contract.
Very true...
Reply

Zuzubu
03-09-2011, 08:36 PM
Yup, I was also surprised when I figured this out, I could not understand why we could have slaves. But now I'm older and more wise, and what Allah wills is right. =D Don't question why Allah does this when we can not judge why Allah did this.
Reply

hopeonallah
03-09-2011, 10:00 PM
Thank you for respond me . my dear friend " ZUZUBU ".

Then Afghan women are not slave for Americans , because Afgan war was not a right war according to you . But according to Americans its a right war . Who will decide which war is right or wrong ? For the sake of argument if I consider all war is the right war ; even tho " how people can think to make some one slave ? Slave means, you have to follow or obey your master commandment like a God's order ; No mater how much your master kind on you . Slave means Slave only . How come people can think to make a defeat person or any one to slave ; who has heart , mind , soul ? here I would like to tell you that most of the soldiers and general citizens are innocent , they just follow their country order . Then How come Islam permit make a slave ? moreover master can have sex with slave without marry , whereas Islam talk a lot about adultery .
Don't you think its a disgusting .
If its Islam then I have to think about it .........
Reply

GuestFellow
03-09-2011, 10:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by hopeonallah

Then Afghan women are not slave for Americans , because Afgan war was not a right war according to you . But according to Americans its a right war . Who will decide which war is right or wrong ?
Not all Americans support the Afghanistan war. History usually decides whether the war is right or wrong in my opinion.

how people can think to make some one slave ? Slave means, you have to follow or obey your master commandment like a God's order
Incorrect. Slaves has rights and masters have a duty to uphold those rights. A master cannot mistreat a slave for his own gratification or has unlimited rights to do whatever he wants to do with the slave.

here I would like to tell you that most of the soldiers and general citizens are innocent , they just follow their country order . Then How come Islam permit make a slave ? moreover master can have sex with slave without marry , whereas Islam talk a lot about adultery .

Don't you think its a disgusting .
I'm sorry but I'm not sure what you mean here. Can you please explain this again?
Reply

- Qatada -
03-09-2011, 10:45 PM
:salamext:


http://idawah.com/refutations/slaves.html#_Women_Slaves
Reply

Maryan0
03-09-2011, 10:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by - Qatada -
What is the point of marriage if you can have relations outside of it? and are the type of situations that allowed for slaves of war in the past relevant today?
I understand that there is a difference between the wife and the concubine in regards to rights. I just don't understand why men are allowed four wives+concubines too.
Salam
Reply

Aprender
03-09-2011, 11:09 PM
Good question. This is definitely a major turn off for people who don't know much about Islam. They see this and it'll just be more ammo to bash the religion. It's bad enough with the whole 72 virgins thing... :(

format_quote Originally Posted by
What is the point of marriage if you can have relations outside of it? and are the type of situations that allowed for slaves of war in the past relevant today? I understand that there is a difference between the wife and the concubine in regards to rights. I just don't understand why men are allowed four wives+concubines too.
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-09-2011, 11:10 PM
Salam

Is the slave girl allowed to say no to the marriage after she is taken to an Islamic state? Is she allowed to have her say in the contract before she marries?
Reply

Alpha Dude
03-09-2011, 11:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Salam

Is the slave girl allowed to say no to the marriage after she is taken to an Islamic state? Is she allowed to have her say in the contract before she marries?
Wa alaykum salam,

When a man would have been given a slavegirl by the state, it wouldn't have been seen as a marriage.

By definition, she would have been a slave, so she would have had no say in whether she is handed out by the state (same for men slaves) or not.
Reply

Salahudeen
03-09-2011, 11:51 PM
Source: http://www.scribd.com/doc/16433933/S...r-Every-Muslim

One of our brothers has asked this question:
I want to understand the concept of concubines in Islam. Somehow or other the concept is
pushed under the rug, whenever I have to tried to bring it up at various places.
These are my concerns:
Ø What is a concubine?
Ø What is their status in a man’s life, esp a married person’s life?
Ø What is the status of the offsprings of this relationship-- to the man, in
their lives, wealth and will etc?
Ø Does she have to be a muslima, or the religion in this relationship is not
of concern?
Ø How is this any different from the modern days concept of
mistress/prostitution/adultery?

A very authentic Hadith narrates that: Take care of whatever is in between your teeth (ie tounge) and whatever is in between your thighs and I promise you Jannah.”

According to Sahih Bukhari Rasool Allah (saws) used to teach the young teenagers, that tell me and I will get you married to anyone you want, however do not do the Sin of Zinna.

As per the above narrations it is quite obvious that the only kind of sexual relations acceptable in Islam are those of the married couples. But then time and time again I come to read the fact that Rasool Allah (saws) used to have one or two concubines too, aside from his 13 wives? This is very confusing, please explain.
(There may be some grammatical and spelling errors in the above statement. The forum does not change anything from
questions, comments and statements received from our readers for circulation in confidentiality.)

ANSWER:
The concept of slave girls in Islam

In the name of Allah, We praise Him, seek His help and ask for His forgiveness. Whoever Allah guides none can misguide, and who-ever He allows to fall astray, none can guide them aright. We bear witness that there is no one (no idol, no person, no grave, no prophet, no imam, no dai, nobody!) worthy of worship but Allah Alone, and we bear witness that Muhammad (saws) is His slave-servant and the seal of His Messengers.

May Allah bless you and reward you for asking this question. It is true that a lot of people push this subject ‘under the rug’ and do not understand it or are sometimes ashamed of this concept. That is because, today’s society and behavior is absolutely different from the conditions prevalent 1400 years ago at the time of Revelation of the Quran. There is no place on earth where this concept is practiced today, thus to really understand the concept in its entirety, we must try to imagine the times of the Revelation of the Glorious Quran.

Since time immemorial, slavery was an accepted practice; thus it was not Islam that started this practice, but rather Islam was the first system to inculcate the freedom of slaves and take steps to make them equal citizens of society. Slavery was abolished in modern society only a couple of centuries ago, and was openly practiced in almost all parts of the civilized world even until the early 1900s. But Islam made it a virtue to free slaves, and inculcate them into society as equal citizens, almost 1400 years ago! So, how did people (men and women) become slaves?

There were several ways in earlier times how a free person would become a slave.

The already existent slaves and their offspring were also considered slaves. People used to steal children and then sell them as slaves in another place. One tribe would attack another tribe, kill the men, and take the women and children as slaves and then sell them as war-booty.

This practice was prevalent all over the world at the times, thus we must remember that Islam neither started it, nor encouraged it. Islam, in fact closed almost all the doors on how a free man becomes a slave, and in reality opened all the doors to free these slaves and make them responsible members in society. Islam was instrumental in eradicating slavery and made it a virtue and a means of reward from Allah to free slaves and inculcate them into society.

The Messenger of Allah (saws) declared it a sin to kidnap any free man, woman or child and make them slaves. After the wars, the Prophet (saws) used to exchange the Prisoners of War if both the warring parties agreed to it. If not, the captives were set free by taking a ransom for them. If the slaves or their families could not afford the ransom, most times the Prophet (saws) showed generosity and released them without any ransom. Only if none of the above were possible, and the captives had no place to return to, then these captives were made slaves and all efforts were taken to inculcate them into the existing Islamic Society.

In some instances, when the enemy was still at war, there was always a fear that if the Prisoners of War were released, they would go back and join their armies and attack the Muslims again. During these times, the Messenger of Allah (saws) allowed the prisoners to be taken as slaves as was the prevalent system of the times. Rather than put them in jail, the slaves were distributed to each household and they were responsible for the welfare of the slaves. The Messenger of Allah (saws) exhorted the believers to feed them what they ate themselves, and dress them in the clothes that they themselves dressed.

Thus, there arose a issue with the women who were captured as Prisoners of War, and were not exchanged, nor ransomed, nor had any place to return to. Most times the wars were with tribes, and whoever won these wars, the losing tribes were completely annihilated. Thus there was no place to send the Prisoners of War back to, and it became imperative that these people were inculcated within the society. Thus there were two choices left with the slave girls: Leave them alone in society with no family and no protection. Give them under the guardianship and protection of an existing family.


Option-1. Leave them alone in society with no family and no protection.

This would not have been a good option. There was obviously a fear that these women, who had absolutely no family and tribe to protect or feed them, would start immoral practices if left to fend for themselves. And because no one could determine their lineage, no honorable person at that time would marry them outright. And also it would not be right to just leave these women, who had absolutely no means, no family, and no protection in a foreign land.


Option-2. Give them under the guardianship of an existing family.

The state would determine which slave girl to which household. Neither the people who received the slave girl, nor the slave girl had a choice. Whatever was allotted by the state was received by them. This was considered the best and novel system to eradicate slavery and accept the slaves as members of society. We must not try to imagine this system of distribution and acceptance in today’s society, but rather 1400 years at the time of the Prophet (saws). The training and discipline of the noble companions of the Prophet (saws), and the true Islamic society which was created in light of the Holy Quran and the guidance of the Messenger of Allah (saws) must be kept in view to get a full picture of the condition of the times.

Your comment: What is a concubine?

The slave girl that was allotted by the state to the respective household, thus became the consort of one member of the household. Only this person was allowed to have a sexual relationship with this slave girl. The difference between this person’s wife and the slave girl was that his wife came into his house through the proper marriage contract (Nikaah), and the slave girl was allotted by the state.

Your comment : What is their status in a man’s life, esp a married person’s life?

The status was like his wife. Only the person who was allotted the slave girl was allowed to have a sexual relationship with her. If the slave girl was allotted to the father, then the brothers or the sons had absolutely no right towards this girl. The other difference was that the Islamic law of equality of time and sustenance did not apply between the wives and the slave girl.


Your comment: What is the status of the offsprings of this relationship-- to the man, in their lives, wealth and will etc?

The children were exactly like the other children from the person’s legally wedded wife. They were to be given exactly the same rights as his other children. The children of the slave girl would inherit the property exactly as the other children. There was absolutely no difference amongst the children. And once any slave girl bore a child, she could not be sold to anybody else and thus became a permanent member of the household.


Your comment: Does she have to be a muslima, or the religion in this relationship is not of concern?

No, this slave girl did not have to be a Muslima. In fact, all the wars fought were between the Muslims and the non-believers, thus most of these slave girls were non-Muslims. But through this system of allocation, this woman was encompassed into Islamic society, and because of the behavior and character of the Muslims of the times, the woman, more often than not, would accept Islam.


Your comment: How is this any different from the modern days concept of
mistress/prostitution/adultery?

There is a huge difference between the slave girls of those times and the system of prostitution which is so prevalent as a disease in today’s society. The slave girl was a social issue of the times, which if not solved by Islam would give rise to adultery and prostitution.

In prostitution, the woman sells here services for a fee to anyone who is willing topay! The slave girl was taken into a household as a full member.

In prostitution, the woman has sexual relationships with many men! The slave girl would have sexual relations only with the person she was given to; very similar to the husband-wife relationship, the only difference being that the wife came into the house through a marriage contract, and the slave girl was allotted to the person by the state.

Prostitution is a result of illegal lust, and is a huge sin in the eyes of Allah. The allocation of slave girls was a issue of the times to envelope the woman taken as slaves in a war into the Islamic society.

Prostitution and adultery do not have any responsibility attached to it! The man- woman have a one-off relationship and depart. The slave girls were a responsibility of the person, who spent on them, gave them a place to live, fed them, clothed them, and raised their children as his children. The children from adultery and prostitution are regarded as born out of wedlock and grow up without the name and without the shadow of a father. The children of the slave girls were known as the children of the person, grew up with his other children, and had exactly the same rights and inheritance as the other offspring. The system of slave girls was accepted and respected by the Islamic society of the times. The slave girl was treated like his wife, and the children from these slave girls were treated like their children by society. No religion, no state, no moral society accepts and respects the institutions of prostitution and adultery. This is a disease of society and every moral society has tried to eradicate this disease with little success.

Again, I reiterate that this system of slaves was not started by Islam, but was prevalent in the society in those times. Islam tried to encompass the slaves into Islamic society and gave them the respect and honor of being equal members and citizens of society. Almost all the doors and ways of creating new slaves were closed, and several options were created to free these slaves and entwine them into the Islamic society. It was considered a virtue in Islam to free slaves and a means of great reward from Allah Subhanah. Islam created a society whereby the compensation for repentance for many sins like murder, breaking of promises, missing of fasts, etc. was the freeing of slaves. In this way, Islam created an environment whereby slaves were made free and allowed to inculcate themselves into the normal Islamic society. We must be careful not to look into this ‘slave-girls’ issue in isolation, but rather look at the whole picture of the Islamic society at the time of the Messenger of Allah (saws). The training, the discipline, the character, and the morals of the noble companions was a direct result of their association and teachings and guidance of the Prophet (saws) himself. The values and degree of ‘Taqwa’ (God consciousness) and the love for the promised Paradise was so great amongst the noble companions of the Messenger of Allah (saws), that the system of justice and morality of the times just cannot be compared to today’s un-Godly times! One must not compare the slaves in Islam to the slaves taken by the modern colonists, who captured any free man in sight in the occupied territories like Africa, chained them and shipped them to their countries and treated them worse than animals! Among the slaves of Islam were people of stature like Hadrat Bilaal (r.a.), Hadrat Ammar bin Yasser (r.a.), Hadrat Salman al Faarsi (r.a.) and Hadrat Zaid bin Haritha(r.a.), the freed slave and adopted son of the Messenger of Allah (saws) himself. The status of Hadrat Zaid bin Haritha (r.a.) is such that he is the only companion of the Prophet (saws) who is mentioned by name by Allah in the Holy Quran. Thus the concept and picture of the slavery as practiced by the west, is absolutely different from the concept of slaves in Islam!


Your comment: But then time and time again I come to read the fact that Rasool Allah (saws) used to have one or two concubines too, aside from his 13 wives?

The Messenger of Allah (saws) had 11 wives in total during his lifetime, and themost wives he had at any one time were nine. Some of the allotted captives of war and slave girls, became his noble wives and received the title and honor of being called the ‘mother of the believers’ by Allah Himself in the Holy Quran. Amongst them was Hadrat Saffiyyah, who was a Jew. She was allotted to the Prophet (saws) as a slave girl, converted to Islam and was married to the Messenger of Allah (saws). Another of his wives who came as a slave and was allotted to the Prophet (saws) was Hadrat Jawarriyah (r.a.) from the tribe of Banu Haris. She too converted to Islam and was married to the Messenger of Allah (saws). He also had a couple of slaves girls whom he did not marry, like Hadrat Maria Kibtia and Hadrat Rehaana, for reasons best known to Allah and His Messenger (saws). But the scholars are unanimous in their opinion that the Messenger of Allah (saws) treated them with love and respect exactly like his other wives. And even after the death of the Prophet (saws), these slave girls of the Prophet (saws) did not marry anybody else like his wives, and they were respected by the muslims in the same honor as the other wives of the Prophet (saws).

And Allah Alone Knows Best and He is the Only Source of Strength. May Allah guide you and us all to the Siraat al-Mustaqeem.

Whatever written of Truth and benefit is only due to Allah’s Assistance and Guidance, and whatever of error is of me. Allah Alone Knows Best and He is the Only Source of Strength.
Reply

Salahudeen
03-09-2011, 11:53 PM
4- Can a slave request his freedom from his Muslim owner?

The Noble Quran not only allows slaves to request their freedom from their Muslim masters, but also orders the Muslim masters to pay the slaves money to help them stand on their feet and to be able to face life with a good jump start.

Let us look at Noble Verse 24:33 "Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is God, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them)," In this Noble Verse, we see that if a slave requests his freedom from his Muslim master, then his master not only must help him earn his freedom if there is good in the Slave, but also pay him money so the slave can have a good start in his free life.

Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him also said:

Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari: "The Prophet said, "Give food to the hungry, pay a visit to the sick and release (set free) the one in captivity (by paying his ransom)." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Food, Meals, Volume 7, Book 65, Number 286)"

Islam came to liberate all slaves and to end the Judeo-Christian and Pagan slavery that was practiced before Islam. When Allah Almighty made lawful for the Muslim men to have sex with their slave women, He did it to keep the Islamic society back then during Islam's weak, partial and venerable times under control.

Now that after we've seen how Islam orders the Muslims to free the slaves whenever it is possible and also whenever the Slave requests his/her freedom, and to treat them as our brothers and sisters, then it is quite obvious that Islam is a religion that DOES NOT LIKE SLAVERY AND ENSLAVING PEOPLE.

We can now look at how Muslims can live with their Captives of Wars to understand the situation better. Back in those days, in most cases of battles, the defeated tribe would have lost many of its men in the battle field, leaving behind the elderly, women and their children.

Everyone is now living under the Islamic ruling. Islam is never to be forced upon any human being; "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error....(The Noble Quran, 2:256)" Also "Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it)....(The Noble Quran, 18:29)" Every captured Pagan Arab had the freedom to continue following his/her religion as they wish. However, since now they lived under the Islamic ruling, and they showed a great deal of offense to the Muslims, by declaring wars on the Muslims along with the rest of the Arab Pagan tribes, and lost so many of their men and money for the war, then their situation now is quite different.

For those of the Pagans who could afford to pay "Jizya" or "Taxes", then they would not be Captives of War and their life would continue as it was. However, for those who could not afford to pay "Jizya" or "Taxes", then they would be taken as Captives of War. They would serve the Muslims and the new ruling that they live in, until they bring back the losses that they brought to the Muslims.

Keep in mind that Allah Almighty allowed for the Captives of Wars to request and be granted their Freedom as shown in the Noble Verse 24:33 above.

Those Captives of Wars while living with the Muslims, would be treated with kindness. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him described them as the MUSLIMS' BROTHERS/SISTERS as shown in the Saying above and the Muslims must feed them from the same food that they eat and dress them from the same cloths that they wear. But since they are now living in captivity to make up for the damage that they caused to the Muslims from money and lives, they can be treated as slaves, and in slavery, the master can sleep with any of his women that he desires.

Also, in the Bible's Deuteronomy 20:13-14, in which it clearly gives orders to kill all the men and to take all of the women and children as slaves. No where in the Noble Quran do we have any order to kill any innocent life.
Reply

Salahudeen
03-09-2011, 11:55 PM
8- Can a Muslim man rape his slave woman?

Below are three English translations to the Noble Verse where Allah Almighty commands the Muslim men to not force their slave women into sex.

The following translations were taken from http://mama.stg.brown.edu/webs/quran...r/pqeasy.shtml

Translation: Yusufali:
"Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is God, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them), (The Noble Quran, 24:33)"

Translation: Pickthall:
"And let those who cannot find a match keep chaste till Allah give them independence by His grace. And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave-girls to *****dom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. And if one force them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, lo! Allah will be Forgiving, Merciful. (The Noble Quran, 24:33)"

Translation: Shakir:
"And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (The Noble Quran, 24:33)"

In all three translations, we clearly see that if the slave woman desires to keep chaste, then her Muslim master must not compel her into sex. It might sound odd to us today, but pagans back then were used to having sex with and raping their slave girls, even the ones who were married:

Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah: "Musaykah, a slave-girl of some Ansari, came and said: My master forces me to commit fornication. Thereupon the following verse was revealed: "But force not your maids to prostitution (when they desire chastity). (24:33)" (Translation of Sunan Abu Dawud, Divorce (Kitab Al-Talaq), Book 12, Number 2304)"

In Islam, men are not allowed to rape their slave-girls. Allah Almighty clearly prohibited it in Noble Verse 24:33. In Islam, slavery is also not allowed. Please visit The liberation of slaves in Islam, to see how Islam gradually ended the Judeo-Christian and pagan slavery.

I was told by a Muslim scholar before along time ago that the Arab pagans used to sometimes offer their wives for several nights to the rich and powerful men in the tribe to win their support and make them become more secured in the monopolizing and unmerciful pagan society.

So to women back then, it was something normal for a married slave woman to sleep with her master. It was something normal in the society at that time.

Allah Almighty in the Noble Quran not only allows for the slave man or woman to earn their freedom from their Muslim master, and receive money from their Muslim master to help them start their free life, but also commands the Muslim men to not compel their slave women into sex.

Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him also said:

Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari: "The Prophet said, "Give food to the hungry, pay a visit to the sick and release (set free) the one in captivity (by paying his ransom)." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Food, Meals, Volume 7, Book 65, Number 286)"

Islam came to liberate all slaves and to end the Judeo-Christian and Pagan slavery that was practiced before Islam. When Allah Almighty made lawful for the Muslim men to have sex with their slave women, He did it to keep the Islamic society back then during Islam's weak, partial and venerable times under control.

Also, if any compulsion was made unto the slave woman, then Allah Almighty will add more mercy and forgiveness unto her in the Day of Judgement. Below is the commentary on this exact section and point in Noble Verse 24:33 by Minister (Sheikh) Abdullah Yusuf Ali; may Allah Almighty rest his soul:

"The poor unfortunate girls, who are victims of such a nefarious trade (i.e., slave trade), will yet find mercy from Allah, whose bounties extend to the lowest of His creatures." [2]

There are other Noble Verses in the Noble Quran where Allah Almighty grants forgiveness and mercy to those who had been forced into illegal things:

"He hath only forbidden you Dead meat, and blood, And the flesh of swine, And that on which Any other name hath been invoked Besides that of Allah. But if one is forced by necessity, Without willful disobedience, Nor transgressing due limits -- Then is he guiltless. For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (The Noble Quran, 2:173)"

"Why should ye not Eat of (meats) on which Allah's name hath been Pronounced, when He hath Explained to you in detail What is forbidden to you -- Except under compulsion Of necessity? But many do mislead (men) By their appetites unchecked By knowledge. Thy Lord Knoweth best those who transgress. (The Noble Quran, 6:119)"

So the answer to the question is: No, the Muslim man can not rape his slave woman according to the commands of Allah Almighty in the Noble Quran.
Reply

Maryan0
03-10-2011, 12:34 AM
I am a firm believer in Islam but this whole slave girl issue really confuses me...
Slaves outside of this sexual issue are treated fairly well in Islam. I really dont get it.
Option-2. Give them under the guardianship of an existing family.

The state would determine which slave girl to which household. Neither the people who received the slave girl, nor the slave girl had a choice. Whatever was allotted by the state was received by them. This was considered the best and novel system to eradicate slavery and accept the slaves as members of society. We must not try to imagine this system of distribution and acceptance in today’s society, but rather 1400 years at the time of the Prophet (saws). The training and discipline of the noble companions of the Prophet (saws), and the true Islamic society which was created in light of the Holy Quran and the guidance of the Messenger of Allah (saws) must be kept in view to get a full picture of the condition of the times.
So this is not relevant today since it is contextual and dependent on the times? War is ongoing it's not something that mainly occurred 1400 years ago.
Salam
Reply

Maryan0
03-10-2011, 12:39 AM
"And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (The Noble Quran, 24:33)"
This ayah puts things into context somewhat.
Reply

GuestFellow
03-10-2011, 12:41 AM
I would like to add that we are all slaves to Allah...something for members to taken into consideration while we are discussing this topic.
Reply

hopeonallah
03-10-2011, 03:04 AM
my dear friend " ZUZUBU " look at your statement once please .


" ( Yup, I was also surprised when I figured this out, I could not understand why we could have slaves. But now I'm older and more wise, and what Allah wills is right. =D Don't question why Allah does this when we can not judge why Allah did this.) "

I am strongly disagree about your this order " =D Don't question why allah does this when we can not judge why allah did this " .

We know Allah the have greatest and unlimited knowledge ,but look my dear friend Allah made Islam for human being , Allah made Quran and all messengers . So that we can understand him as well as all his work which is related to human being neither for misunderstand not for blind believe . Allah want us to know about him self as well as his job which are made for human being . That is the reason he use human language etc ..
Look at this statement from quran in below :-

Wa-“idh qala “Ibrahimu Rabbi “arini kayfa tuhi al-mawta (صلي) qala “awa lam tu-“min (صلي) qala bala wa-lakinl li-yatma-“inna qalbi (صلي) qala fakhudh “arba’atanm mina alt-tayri fasur-hunna “ilayka thumma ij-‘al ‘ala kulli jabalinm minhunna juz-“an thumma d-’uhunna ya-“tinaka sa’yan (ج) wa-‘lam "anna Allaha ‘Az’zun Hakimun
And (remember) when Ibrahim (Abraham) said, "My Lord! Show me how You give life to the dead." He (Allah) said: "Do you not believe?" He [Ibrahim (Abraham)] said: "Yes (I believe), but to be stronger in Faith." He said: "Take four birds, then cause them to incline towards you (then slaughter them, cut them into pieces), and then put a portion of them on every hill, and call them, they will come to you in haste. And know that Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise."

Here, at the time of Abraham ; it was time for miracle , so Allah shown miracle . Now the time is logic n science . Allah says Islam and Mohammad(PBUH) ( Mohammad is not separate from islam ) for the all edge .
And we know human being have limited knowledge it does not mean all human being have equal amount of limited knowledge . suppose total amount of limited knowledge is 100% . some people may have 5%, some people may have 10% some people may have 50% so and so ...
You may have 10% knowledge about slavery in Islam it does not mean all people have 10% knowledge . why do you stop others to do research about slavery in Islam by warn them such as " =D Don't question why Allah does this " ?
doing research not decrease the Iman . In fact it increase the Iman . But the condition is we have to believe in every thing in Islam whether we understand or not .
And we should not force to any one that , we should not question . OK ...
Reply

hopeonallah
03-10-2011, 04:01 AM
your reply is wonderful my dear friend " salahuden " . thank you so much .

But still I have one query . what will be happen if the master is die ? will slave get the share of their master's property like a wife ?
Reply

hopeonallah
03-10-2011, 04:33 AM
my dear friend " Guestfellow " ,
1). In generally all soldiers are innocent . what the soldiers do in the battle field ? answer is , soldiers are doing nothing but they follow their government's orders . So how come you make them your slave as well as their wife if they defeat in war ?
2) In generally , general citizens are innocent then, how come you make them your slave if their government defeat in the war ?
3)what is adultery ? adultery is nothing but having sex with some other person which is not your spouse ? and adultery is one of the biggest Sin in Islam .then how come Islam allow to having sex with their slaves without marry ?

My request is not compare with any other religion regarding this query . because I know other religions are more worst then Islam .
please give me logical answer ...
Reply

hopeonallah
03-10-2011, 04:49 AM
my dear friend " 3rddec"

Do some practical research rather then talking about one man one woman . Do you have any idea about women population ? No of woman is very high in the world compere the men . If every man get merry with one women even there are millions of woman will not get husband . If your sister or your daughter comes under husband less community and if she is not lesbian then , what she will do ? she has to marry with a man who already have husband or become a public property . Ask to your Christ what he will prescribe for your sister or daughter ?
Reply

hopeonallah
03-10-2011, 05:02 AM
My dear friend " Maryano "
please try to stick the topic . its a different topic " Why man can marry up to four if they can do Justice or else marry only one woman" . here the topic is about slavery . If you want to discuss some other topic then post it separately
Reply

GuestFellow
03-10-2011, 09:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by hopeonallah
my dear friend " Guestfellow " ,
1). In generally all soldiers are innocent . what the soldiers do in the battle field ? answer is , soldiers are doing nothing but they follow their government's orders . So how come you make them your slave as well as their wife if they defeat in war ?
I'm not sure what the connection is between the two.

2) In generally , general citizens are innocent then, how come you make them your slave if their government defeat in the war ?
It was a custom that existed before Islam. Islam did not abolish everything at once, like with alcohol. It banned practices through a step by step process.

3)what is adultery ? adultery is nothing but having sex with some other person which is not your spouse ? and adultery is one of the biggest Sin in Islam .then how come Islam allow to having sex with their slaves without marry ?
Allah permits certain relationships and prohibits certain relationships. Allah has permitted the relationship between men and slaves. Therefore, it is lawful.
Reply

nature
03-10-2011, 10:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
Good question. This is definitely a major turn off for people who don't know much about Islam. They see this and it'll just be more ammo to bash the religion. It's bad enough with the whole 72 virgins thing... :(
turn off for muslims also, not just non muslims. so basically a guy to fill his desires can go and have sex with his slave girl with no thoughts for his wife ?? wouldnt something like fasting make more sense ? or take a second wife ??

To be honest this is one thing im sure a lot of women will never ever understand
Reply

nature
03-10-2011, 10:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
I'm not sure what the connection is between the two.

Allah permits certain relationships and prohibits certain relationships. Allah has permitted the relationship between men and slaves. Therefore, it is lawful.
If its lawful then fine, but if you were a woman i think your views would be totally different. to me there seems no logic behind it ? doesnt make sense ? I guess as muslims we'll never really understand/ accept everything. I cant with something like this.
Reply

nature
03-10-2011, 10:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zuzubu
If females get jealous, I am happy I am not a female. And I am happy that your husband don't have slaves then. ;)
Jealousy is normal for any human. man or woman, everyone can feel jealousy. when khadija (rad) passed away didnt the prophet used to treat her friends with great respect and make them gifts ? & aisha (RAD) used to get jealous.
Reply

GuestFellow
03-10-2011, 12:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nature
If its lawful then fine, but if you were a woman i think your views would be totally different. to me there seems no logic behind it ? doesnt make sense ? I guess as muslims we'll never really understand/ accept everything. I cant with something like this.
:sl:

I do not believe this has anything to do with being a man or women. I used to be against this when I was agnostic but after doing some research, I learnt to accept it. I suspect some of us are using modern concepts as a standard to judge what happened 1400 years ago. It is best to view these events as independent.

The logic behind it was that it was not seen as practicable to abolish slavery all at once. Same with alcohol. Some practices were banned through a step by step process.

Have you read Salahudeen's post and the linked provided by Qatada?
Reply

- Qatada -
03-10-2011, 12:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Qatada
http://idawah.com/refutations/slaves.html#_umwalad
format_quote Originally Posted by Maryan0
What is the point of marriage if you can have relations outside of it? and are the type of situations that allowed for slaves of war in the past relevant today?
format_quote Originally Posted by Maryan0
I understand that there is a difference between the wife and the concubine in regards to rights. I just don't understand why men are allowed four wives+concubines too.
Salam

I've explained in that article that a nation who faces war, their women will go through either of these 3 circumstances;

1 - Imprisonment - because her people were at war with the Victor. (she will most likely be raped in prison, and this happens even in the modern world. [search Abu Ghraib prison if in doubt.])

2 - Exhile - because the defeated peoples property has all been taken by the enemy. (so she will have to run to another land, where she will probably also face harm and probably rape. And she will not have a male provider. [if in doubt - study the effects of the Iraq war on Muslim women. (many have had to become prostitutes because their men have been killed).])

3 - Being a Concubine - this is the best solution. She has a Believing male provider, she has similar rights to a wife. She learns about Islam from the Muslims. She soon earns her freedom [see Um al Walad]. And her husband may even; teach her, free her and marry her (since that is recommended in the Qur'an and Ahadith [see surah Nur 24:32)

And marry the unmarried among you and the righteous among your male slaves and female slaves.
If they should be poor, Allah will enrich them from His bounty, and Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing. [Nur 24:32]

We see that 4 wives maximum will not give protection to all women whose people face defeat in war. Rather, there needs to be no limit in order for these women to have one Provider who fulfills her rights.

This is why - the Ameer [Leader] will distribute the women (keeping in mind their status before they were caught - so a noble woman will be given to a noble man i.e. Safiyyah bint Huyayy was given to Allah's Messenger because she was of a noble lineage). So that the woman has one guardian who can lookafter her and give her her rights (with food, clothing, shelter, and intimate rights etc.)

This is the fairest and purest Practical solution.


Allah knows best.




Reply

Zuzubu
03-10-2011, 12:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by hopeonallah
Thank you for respond me . my dear friend " ZUZUBU ".

Then Afghan women are not slave for Americans , because Afgan war was not a right war according to you . But according to Americans its a right war . Who will decide which war is right or wrong ? For the sake of argument if I consider all war is the right war ; even tho " how people can think to make some one slave ? Slave means, you have to follow or obey your master commandment like a God's order ; No mater how much your master kind on you . Slave means Slave only . How come people can think to make a defeat person or any one to slave ; who has heart , mind , soul ? here I would like to tell you that most of the soldiers and general citizens are innocent , they just follow their country order . Then How come Islam permit make a slave ? moreover master can have sex with slave without marry , whereas Islam talk a lot about adultery .
Don't you think its a disgusting .
If its Islam then I have to think about it .........
Dear Hopeonallah, my Afghanistan people fight against a group of outlaws and not the country or town. It would be the same as taking the wife of a theif as slave. Taliban is not part of the slavery thing. Besides, the war is fought against kuffars and not muslims (most of the time).

A slave MUST SIGN A DEAL BEFORE sexual intercourse, and if it is signed, then it is not adultery, as the woman has a child she is free, and sometimes they get married. The prophet (saw) himself married women. Remmember that the old arabs used to be slave traders. Remmember the stories of Ibn-E-Battuta how he some years ago explained how the deserts were filled with big caravans of slaves gettnig traded.

Jazakallah khair, please ask if any misconceptions. It is a hard topic to "agree" with, without enough knowledge.
Reply

- Qatada -
03-10-2011, 12:50 PM
hopeonAllah, Allah's Messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him) said [meaning];

Narrated Al-Ma'rur:
At Ar-Rabadha I met Abu Dhar who was wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a similar one. I asked about the reason for it. He replied, "I abused a person by calling his mother with bad names."

The Prophet said to me, 'O Abu Dhar! Did you abuse him by calling his mother with bad names You still have some characteristics of ignorance. Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them.' "

Sahih al Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 30.
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-10-2011, 12:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bedouin
Wa alaykum salam,

When a man would have been given a slavegirl by the state, it wouldn't have been seen as a marriage.

By definition, she would have been a slave, so she would have had no say in whether she is handed out by the state (same for men slaves) or not.
I don’t understand. :exhausted How is that any way acceptable? Forcing someone to have a relationship and having no say in it? Slave or otherwise
Reply

Zuzubu
03-10-2011, 01:00 PM
sweet, you can't force someone to have a adult relation, but you can force them to be under your command or prisoners.
Reply

Maryan0
03-10-2011, 05:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by - Qatada -




I've explained in that article that a nation who faces war, their women will go through either of these 3 circumstances;

1 - Imprisonment - because her people were at war with the Victor. (she will most likely be raped in prison, and this happens even in the modern world. [search Abu Ghraib prison if in doubt.])

2 - Exhile - because the defeated peoples property has all been taken by the enemy. (so she will have to run to another land, where she will probably also face harm and probably rape. And she will not have a male provider. [if in doubt - study the effects of the Iraq war on Muslim women. (many have had to become prostitutes because their men have been killed).])

3 - Being a Concubine - this is the best solution. She has a Believing male provider, she has similar rights to a wife. She learns about Islam from the Muslims. She soon earns her freedom [see Um al Walad]. And her husband may even; teach her, free her and marry her (since that is recommended in the Qur'an and Ahadith [see surah Nur 24:32)

And marry the unmarried among you and the righteous among your male slaves and female slaves.
If they should be poor, Allah will enrich them from His bounty, and Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing. [Nur 24:32]

We see that 4 wives maximum will not give protection to all women whose people face defeat in war. Rather, there needs to be no limit in order for these women to have one Provider who fulfills her rights.

This is why - the Ameer [Leader] will distribute the women (keeping in mind their status before they were caught - so a noble woman will be given to a noble man i.e. Safiyyah bint Huyayy was given to Allah's Messenger because she was of a noble lineage). So that the woman has one guardian who can lookafter her and give her her rights (with food, clothing, shelter, and intimate rights etc.)

This is the fairest and purest Practical solution.


Allah knows best.



Jazakhallhu Khayr for the reply. I understand the wisdom behind taking a slave women/prisoner of war in to the household because it is along the lines of the ayah on polygamy which was revealed after battle of Uhud because many widows needed protection and this is relevant today because you see many women in war zones turning to prostitution in order to survive. I just don't understand the point of the limitation put on how many wives a man can have if they can relations outside of marriage. The point of marriage is to have in a halal way. If the women are entitled to some of the rights a wife would have and their children are entitled to all the rights of normal children why not just marry them from the get go?
Like Nature said this is something I will never understand. but Allah does know best.
Salam
Reply

Maryan0
03-10-2011, 05:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
I don’t understand. :exhausted How is that any way acceptable? Forcing someone to have a relationship and having no say in it? Slave or otherwise
They can't be forced to have a relationship.
Salam
Reply

جوري
03-10-2011, 05:54 PM
I don't wish to pass a fatwa but my understanding is that, this was applicable in a period where slavery was still very much a part of society.. Islam came to abolish slavery gradually and as such I don't believe that this is applicable.. and under both circumstances you're not to force them or subjugate them as was common practice in many societies ..

:w:
Reply

Maryan0
03-10-2011, 06:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
I don't wish to pass a fatwa but my understanding is that, this was applicable in a period where slavery was still very much a part of society.. Islam came to abolish slavery gradually and as such I don't believe that this is applicable.. and under both circumstances you're not to force them or subjugate them as was common practice in many societies ..

:w:
Well if this the case than alhamdulilah maybe like someone mentioned before we are looking at it in relation to what would be acceptable today.
Salam
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
03-11-2011, 02:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by 3rddec
When Christ was asked why the ancient jews were allowed to have wives and concubines he made clear what he thought; a man should only have one wife; divorce was only permissable for adultry and even to look at a woman lustfully was sinful. He explained that the reason the ancient jews were allowed to do as they did was because the were to ignorant to be able to understand fully the perfect order of marraige to one woman. I wonder did Mohammed have the same problem and has the Muslim world developed more spiritual insight and believe in one man and one woman for life.

Love and Respect
Really? Now let's see where the idea of prostitution of slaves comes from:

First of all, the slave is his master's property. The master can do anything with him:

Let us look at Exodus 21:7-8 "And in case a man should sell his daughter as a slave girl, she will not go out in the way that the slave men go out. If she is displeasing in the eyes of her master so that he doesn't designate her as a concubine but causes her to be redeemed, he will not be entitled to sell her to a foreign people in his treacherously dealing with her."

When I looked up the word "concubine" in www.dictionary.com, I found:

1- Law. A woman who cohabits with a man.
2- In certain societies, such as imperial China, a woman contracted to a man as a secondary wife, often having few legal rights and low social status.

(http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/di...term=concubine)

And when I looked up the word "cohabits", I found:

1- To live together as spouses.
2- To live together in a sexual relationship when not legally married.

(http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=cohabits)

So in the Bible, the FATHER HAS THE RIGHT TO SELL HIS DAUGHTER TO BE FORCED TO SLEEP WITH OTHER MEN according to Exodus 21:7-8, and if she tries to be redeemed (to be set free), then her punishment is to be STUCK WITH HER MASTER!

In the Noble Quran, in Noble Verse 24:33 above, we clearly saw that the slave has the right to request his freedom and be granted his/her freedom and be given money on top of it so he/she can stand on their feet.

More on concubines in the bible:

"If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property. (From the NIV Bible, Exodus 21:20-21)"

In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

Islam's attitude toward slaves is to eventually free them. This is opposite from the bible that orders its followers to inherit slaves:

Leviticus 25:44-46 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

I'd like to see the Christians explain to us what they HONESTLY feel about "and can make them slaves for life" in their bible?

If you want i can also give you quotes from the Bible stating slaves being worthless and lower than animals having no rights and as we saw above according to the Bible they can be made slaves for life.

The Bible in both the Old Testament and the New Testament doesn't recognize slaves as human beings. The Bible also in both the Old and the New Testaments encourages slavery and enslaving people. It doesn't encourage nor command Christians to fight for others' rights and to liberate them from slavery. Instead, the Bible repeatedly talks about slaves as worthless sub humans and animals who must not gain their freedom unless they convert to Christianity.
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
03-11-2011, 02:17 AM
The first call to prayer at the Quba mosque built by Prophet Muhammad was given in 622 by Bilal -- a black slave freed by the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam).

The Supreme Court of the United States declared in 1857 that the slave Dred Scott (black slave) could not sue for his freedom because he was not a person, but property.

Bilal (RA) who was a former slave will be of the first people to enter Paradise:

Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) said: "I was shown Paradise and I saw the wife of Abu Talha (i. e. Umm Sulaim) and I heard the noise of steps before me and, lo, it was that of Bilal". (Muslim, Book 31: 6012)

Islam honoured slaves 1400 years ago when not long ago slaves in the west were still treated worst than animals.
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
03-11-2011, 02:18 AM
Annemarie Schimmel, Islam: An Introduction

Slavery was not abolished by the Koran, but believers are constantly admonished to treat their slaves well. In case of illness a slave has to be looked after and well cared for. To manumit [free] a slave is highly meritorious; the slave can ransom himself by paying some of the money he has earned while conducting his own business. Only children of slaves or non-Muslim prisoners of war can become slaves, never a freeborn Muslim; therefore slavery is theoretically doomed to disappear with the expansion of Islam. The entire history of Islam proves that slaves could occupy any office, and many former military slaves, usually recruited from among the Central Asian Turks, became military leaders and often even rulers as in eastern Iran, India (the Slave Dynasty of Delhi), and medieval Egypt (the Mamluks). Eunuchs too served in important capacities, not only as the guardians of the women's quarters, but also in high administrative and military positions. -- p. 67

Source: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...D=675&CATE=115
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
03-11-2011, 02:19 AM
To answer this question, it should first be remarked that Islam has tolerated slavery but has never approved of it, and that all its teachings and prescriptions in this regard lead to its alleviation as far as possible in the short term, and, in the longer term, conduce to its progressive suppression. To abolish it would have been impossible in a world in which it was generally practiced by all the states which bordered on the new Muslim empire, and in which the idea of challenging the principle itself had not occurred to anyone. It was the custom to enslave prisoners of war -- when these were not simply massacred -- and the Islamic state would have put itself at a grave disadvantage vis-a-vis its enemies had it not reciprocated to some extent. By guaranteeing them humane treatment, and various possibilities of subsequently releasing themselves, it ensured that a good number of combatants in the opposing armies preferred captivity at the hands of Muslims to death on the field of battle.

It should be very clearly underlined that the slavery once practiced in the Muslim world cannot be compared to the form it had assumed -- for instance -- in the Roman Empire. Islamic legislation subjected slave owners to a set of precise obligations, first among which was the slave's right to life, for, according to a hadith, 'Whoever kills his slave shall be killed by us'. In consequence, the murder of a slave was punished like that of a free man.

There are many other hadiths which define Islam's true attitude in this regard. The Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) said: 'Your slaves are your brethren; therefore whoever has a brother who depends upon him must feed and clothe him in the way he feeds and clothes himself; and should not impose upon him tasks which exceed his capacity; should you ask them to do such things, then you are obliged to help them.' The Sharia takes this injunction, among many others, into account when defining the responsibilities and duties of slaveholders.

There is another teaching which enjoins respect for the human dignity of slaves: 'Let none of you say, "This man, or this woman, is my slave". He must rather say: "This is my man, and this my woman."' Putting into relief the provisional character of social ties and the authority exercised by slave owners over their slaves, the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) said: 'It is true that God has made you their masters, but, had He so wished, He could equally well have made you their slaves.'

To manumit a slave has always been regarded as one of the most meritorious of all acts, and many passages of the Qur'an recommend or even require it, particularly as a means of expiation for serious faults. Traditional legislation lays down the methods of voluntary liberation of slaves by their masters (itq), and there were very many Muslims who observed these, especially at the end of their lives, so as not to die and appear before God without having given full freedom to the human beings placed in their power during their earthly lives.

Additionally, slaves had the ability to enfranchise themselves at their own initiative, without waiting passively for the goodwill of their masters: the procedure known as mukataba allowed them to buy their own freedom with sums which they saved from their work, and which the state frequently augmented with advances -- a measure which the slave owner had no right to oppose. In contrast to the situation under Roman law, slaves were not deprived of the legal ability to exercise their rights and to appeal to a judge against their masters in all cases of illegal treatment.

Besides domestic slavery, which was generally imbued with a patriarchal character, there also existed a form of military slavery, which was frequently employed by princes in need of recruits, especially for their personal guards. This situation had the effect of conferring an often considerable influence and power on men of servile condition or origin, and some of these became the founders of great and illustrious dynasties such as the Tulunids and Mamlukes of Egypt.

The object of a prosperous commercial sector, which under the Abbasid Empire was often the specialty of non-Muslims, particularly Byzantine and Venetian Christians, and Jews, slavery gradually declined in importance until, at the beginning of the present century, it was confined to a few survivals which have now disappeared entirely. Thanks to the strict traditional controls which have always regulated the practice, it would be difficult to deny that social conditions were remarkably humane during the great periods of Muslim civilization, and that these, moreover, were in conformity with the 'egalitarian' spirit of Islam, which, in a hadith, teaches that 'the blackest of Abyssinians' is superior to most noble of Qurai****es, if he has more faith. -- p. 104 - 107

Roger Du Pasquier, Unveiling Islam

Source: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...D=675&CATE=115
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
03-11-2011, 02:20 AM
Sayyid Sa'eed Akhtar Rizvi, Slavery From Islamic and Christian Perspectives:

Among all the religions it was only Islam that attacked the very foundations of this evil. --
-- preface

Sylviane A. Diouf, Servants of Allah: African Muslims Enslaved in the Americas

Author asserts that Islam was the first revealed religion followed by African slaves, and describes their struggle in upholding Islamic practices.
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
03-11-2011, 02:36 AM
Why does the Quran Allow Slavery? Here is the answer. In Islam if a master has sex with his slave, then when the slave girl is pregnant, she and her child is automatically freed after the masters death. But that’s not the only way a slave can get freedom, infact if a slave request his/her freedom, she or he can get it!

Noble Verse 24:33 "Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is God, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),"

As we can clearly see, Islam says that if a slave request freedom, he/she can get it, including some money, in order for the slave to get a good jump start in life.

Beside this, the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) also ordered for slaves to not be forced into having sexual intercourse:

"Musaykah, a slave-girl of some Ansari, came and said: My master forces me to commit fornication. Thereupon the following verse was revealed: "But force not your maids to prostitution (when they desire chastity). (24:33)" (Translation of Sunan Abu Dawud, Divorce (Kitab Al-Talaq), Book 12, Number 2304)"

Also read how the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) used to free slaves:

Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former President of the Islamic Society of North America and Director of the Islamic Society of Orange County, Garden Grove, California. He states the following:

"The author claims that “the Bible condemns slavery” and “one who practices slavery contradicts right teachings.” In order to prove his point he even adds “the slave traders” in 1Timothy 1:10. There is no such word there in the Revised Standard Version.

Actually in the whole Bible this word does not exist. The author also makes false allegation against Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) by saying that he used to buy, sell, hire, and rent slaves.

Slavery existed throughout the Biblical period including the time of Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him). Most of the Biblical prophets had slaves, both males and females. Perhaps the author of this flyer did not read his own New Testament. Otherwise he would have found there the following advice to slaves: “Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be defamed.” (1 Timothy 6:1) and “Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to be refractory…” (Titus 2:9)

Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) did not own slaves. He had many slaves purchased and freed. The author quotes Muslim scholar Ibn Al-Qayyim who said about the Prophet, “His purchases of slaves were more then he sold.” This is correct because he used to purchase slaves in order to free them, not to sell them. However, the author of the pamphlet mistranslates Ibn Al-Qayyim when he says, “The Prophet used to rent out and hiring many slaves, but he hired more slaves then he rented out.” The author has mischievously added the words “many slaves” and “more slaves” in the text.

Ibn Al-Qayyim is not talking here about the sale, purchase, renting, and hiring of slaves, but about general business practices of the Prophet before he received the Prophethood. Actually, he is saying that “the Prophet himself was hired before he became the Prophet to take care of some sheep and he was hired by Khadijah to do business for her.” (see Zad Al-Ma’ad, vol. 1, p. 154)

The Qur’an teaches that freeing the salves is a great virtue (See Surah 90:13). One of the expenditures of zakah (obligatory charity) is to spend the money for the freedom of the slaves (surah 9:60).

It is forbidden in Islam to enslave a free person. If Muslims had consistently followed the Islamic teachings in this regard, slavery would have become extinct a long time ago. It is unfortunate that some Muslims did not follow these teachings of Islam and slavery continued in Muslim lands for centuries. We are ashamed that some Muslims practiced slavery against the teachings of Islam. However, it is also a historical fact that for centuries the worst type of slavery in its most extensive and horrible form was practiced by those who claimed themselves to be the followers of Christ. They enslaved millions of free men, women, and children and shipped them like animals from one continent to another. They made millions in profit by this most shameful trade of human beings.

I wish to remind the author of this flyer what Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.” (Matthew 7:3-5)"

(Source: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503547546)



So let’s see the points made:

1) Slaves can NOT be forced into having sexual intercourse with

2) Slaves ARE automatically free after the masters death if they bare a child from the master

3) Slaves CAN ask to be freed, and become free , including they will get an amount of money to jump start in life.

So Islam destroyed the social illness called slavery, if you look at the proof open-mindedly.
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
03-11-2011, 02:40 AM
The Status of Slave Women in Islam

When Islam was reveled to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), slavery was a worldwide common social phenomenon; it was much older than Islam. Slavery was deeply rooted in every society to the extent that it was impossible to imagine a civilized society without slaves.

In spite of this social fact, Islam was the first religion to recognize slavery as a social illness that needed to be addressed. Since slavery was deeply rooted in the society, Islam did not abolish it at once. Rather, Islam treated slavery in the same manner it treated other social illnesses. Islam followed the same methodology of gradual elimination in dealing with this social disease as it did with other social illnesses, for example: the prohibition of alcohol in three steps.

Concerning having slave women, we would like to let you know that it happens to be a practice necessitated by the condition in which early Muslims found themselves vis-à-vis non-Muslims, as both parties engaged in wars. Slave women or milk al-yameen are referred to in the Qur'an as “Those whom your right hand possess” or “ma malakat aymanukum”; they are those taken as captives during conquests and subsequently became slaves, or those who were descendants of slaves.

Thus, it was a war custom in the past to take men and women as captives and then turn them into slaves. Islam did not initiate it, rather, it was something in practice long ago before the advent of Islam. And when Islam came, it tried to eradicate this practice, bit by bit. So it first restricted it to the reciprocal practice of war, in the sense that Muslims took war captives just as the enemies did with Muslims.

But as it aimed at putting an end to such issue, Islam laid down rules which would eventually lead to eradicating the practice. So it allowed Muslims to have intercourse with slave women taken as captives of just and legitimate wars. In so doing, the woman would automatically become free if she got pregnant. What's more, her child would also become free.

Not only that, Islam also ordered a Muslim to treat the slave woman in every respect as if she were his wife. She should be well fed, clothed and given due protection. In the family environment, she had the opportunity to learn about Islam and was free to accept it or reject it. She also had the opportunity to earn her freedom for she could be ransomed.

In the light of the above-mentioned facts, and the nature of the question posed by people, it's clear that some people misunderstand the wisdom behind the permissibility of having female slaves and think that it is meant to unleash men’s desires and give them more enjoyment. Never! That is not the point! It is, rather, means of freeing slaves; and this is clarified above in the fact that if a master got a female slave pregnant, then he could neither sell her nor give her away as a present. And if he died, she would not be considered part of his property. She'd receive her freedom and her baby would also be free.

But, we have to stress that this case should not be confused with that of female servants or maids, for they are free and not slaves. Therefore, it is forbidden to engage in sexual relations with them except through an Islamic marriage.

Slavery has been abolished by international conventions, and goes in line with aims and objectives of Islam, as it has called for centuries ago.

As for marrying slaves, it is something permissible under two conditions: first, if one is unable to pay the dowry of a free woman. Second, if there is fear of committing adultery if one doesn’t get married. This is clarified by the following verse: “And whose is not able to afford to marry free, believing women, let them marry from the believing maids whom your right hands possess. This is for him among you who feareth to commit sin. But to have patience would be better for you.” (An-Nisaa’: 25)

This verse shows that Muslim men should abstain from illicit relations and seek enjoyment through marriage to free women or through their female slaves.

In conclusion, Allah has forbidden certain types of behavior and permitted other kinds of behavior as a safeguard to the individual and to the society. Allah has forbidden fornication and adultery. However, in the case of captives whom your right hands posses, it's something necessitated by the special circumstances which were created when the Muslims were at war.”


(Source: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503544596)

Therefore it is clear that Islam gradually destroyed the social illness called slavery, just like it did with alcohol.

And Allah knows best in all matters
Reply

Lynx
03-11-2011, 03:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by - Qatada -




I've explained in that article that a nation who faces war, their women will go through either of these 3 circumstances;

1 - Imprisonment - because her people were at war with the Victor. (she will most likely be raped in prison, and this happens even in the modern world. [search Abu Ghraib prison if in doubt.])

2 - Exhile - because the defeated peoples property has all been taken by the enemy. (so she will have to run to another land, where she will probably also face harm and probably rape. And she will not have a male provider. [if in doubt - study the effects of the Iraq war on Muslim women. (many have had to become prostitutes because their men have been killed).])

3 - Being a Concubine - this is the best solution. She has a Believing male provider, she has similar rights to a wife. She learns about Islam from the Muslims. She soon earns her freedom [see Um al Walad]. And her husband may even; teach her, free her and marry her (since that is recommended in the Qur'an and Ahadith [see surah Nur 24:32)

And marry the unmarried among you and the righteous among your male slaves and female slaves.
If they should be poor, Allah will enrich them from His bounty, and Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing. [Nur 24:32]

We see that 4 wives maximum will not give protection to all women whose people face defeat in war. Rather, there needs to be no limit in order for these women to have one Provider who fulfills her rights.

This is why - the Ameer [Leader] will distribute the women (keeping in mind their status before they were caught - so a noble woman will be given to a noble man i.e. Safiyyah bint Huyayy was given to Allah's Messenger because she was of a noble lineage). So that the woman has one guardian who can lookafter her and give her her rights (with food, clothing, shelter, and intimate rights etc.)

This is the fairest and purest Practical solution.


Allah knows best.




Hi,

It's also possible to have slaves that are not concubines, which will still confer the same advantages that you have outlined without the moral drawbacks. Of course, IMO, the real reason this practice was allowed is because the army needs to be kept happy.
Reply

- Qatada -
03-11-2011, 08:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx
Hi,

It's also possible to have slaves that are not concubines
, which will still confer the same advantages that you have outlined without the moral drawbacks. Of course, IMO, the real reason this practice was allowed is because the army needs to be kept happy.

Slave women still have sexual needs. Instead of leaving them to prostitution or illicit sexual relations, Islam provides that this woman has the right to emotional care, and also intimate care from her male provider or 'owner'.

In regard to the rest of your statement, whatever - it still doesn't disprove that Islam provided the best Practical solution. Infact, I would agree that it brings good for both the male and the female involved. And this is what God's guidance provides.
Reply

Lynx
03-11-2011, 10:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by - Qatada -
Slave women still have sexual needs. Instead of leaving them to prostitution or illicit sexual relations, Islam provides that this woman has the right to emotional care, and also intimate care from her male provider or 'owner'.
Well prostitution does not arise out of sexual needs. It arises out of socio-economic conditions. Also, I am glad you feel so strongly about 'illicit sexual reations; legal harems are so much nobler. Were the sexual appetites of Muslim men so insatiable 1400 years ago?

In regard to the rest of your statement, whatever - it still doesn't disprove that Islam provided the best Practical solution. Infact, I would agree that it brings good for both the male and the female involved. And this is what God's guidance provides.
Here's a better solution: if the soldier has a wife, then he is forbidden to have sexual relationships with his slave woman unless his wife allows him to. I think THAT clause would make the sisters feel a lot better ;)

Most people could not sleep at night knowing their beloved is in bed with another, let alone 3 others. Anyone here who is married or is in a relationship can understand this; the creator of humans, if he exists, understands this; so why does anyone think God would sanction something like this, especially when it essentially serves no purpose but to satiate the soldiers fighting wars? I don't know what's worse, 'halal' prostitution (as per the shi'ites and their temp marriages) or legalized adultery (in this example).
Reply

- Qatada -
03-11-2011, 10:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx
Well prostitution does not arise out of sexual needs. It arises out of socio-economic conditions.
And this is why I said, the slave woman should have a male provider - who provides all her needs for her. This way, she doesn't need to resort to prostitution.


Also, I am glad you feel so strongly about 'illicit sexual reations; legal harems are so much nobler. Were the sexual appetites of Muslim men so insatiable 1400 years ago?
Ah, so you're perfectly alright with women being locked up and raped? Exhiled and raped again? But not if they gain gradual freedom through a harem or marriage?


Here's a better solution: if the soldier has a wife, then he is forbidden to have sexual relationships with his slave woman unless his wife allows him to. I think THAT clause would make the sisters feel a lot better ;)
It might make the sisters feel better. But it still doesn't provide a solution. If many females have different needs, and there are less men in society to fulfill them needs (not just sexual, but also others such as financial support, shelter, etc.) then that is a solution in removing some post-war problems in regard to females.


Most people could not sleep at night knowing their beloved is in bed with another, let alone 3 others. Anyone here who is married or is in a relationship can understand this; the creator of humans, if he exists, understands this; so why does anyone think God would sanction something like this, especially when it essentially serves no purpose but to satiate the soldiers fighting wars? I don't know what's worse, 'halal' prostitution (as per the shi'ites and their temp marriages) or legalized adultery (in this example).
The above point answers this. Your lack of insight and lack of providing better alternatives on the issue shows you really don't understand the issue well, or you purposelly want to remain ignorant. Maybe you can provide a better solution? I look forward to it.
Reply

IB-Staff
03-11-2011, 12:49 PM
:sl:


This topic has been discussed here numerous times. There's no point in repeating the same over and over again.

Please the search feature of the forum. You will find many threads on this topic. One such thread is here.




:threadclo
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Holiday in the Maldives

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!