Religion, secularism and Islam: can atheistic forces control Islamic education?

[CosmicPathos]

I was just reading this paper by Sadik J Al-Azm called "Islam and the science-religion debates in modern times." I did not know that many Arab atheists (exMuslims) have risen against Islamic teachings, Islamic faith and traditions in the last 200 years, after being impressed by the Western enlightenment. I previously knew about Jamal ud Din Al afghani and Mohammad Abdhu and their versions of Islam and their efforts to "align" traditional Islam with Western destruction of religion. But this dude Al-Azm takes it one step further and calls Islam religion a myth. And he says openly in his paper that his books and those of other atheists are banned in the Arab world but they are openly available "under the table," especially in Lebanon, Syria and Egypt. I am sure such books are also available in Saudi Arabia, as there are a growing number of atheists among the educated youth. This Al-Azm compares Salman Rushdie's ordeal (the fatwa regarding his death penalty) on publishing The Satanic Verses as equivalent to Galileo's persecution by the church and claims how Islam, just like christianity, is silencing voices of reason, progress and science.

One thing is common, all these humanist writers (such as Al-Azm) are against the "fundamentalist" Muslim thinkers such as Sayyed Qutb, Abu Ala' Al-Maududi, Hassan Al-Banna and many others. Why? because these "fundamentalist" Muslims in their books talk about jihad against the West and the secularization and the atheism that scientific progress brings. Science cannot thrive if there is no freedom of speech. If there is freedom of speech, there will be open expression of atheism for sure, among the very people who belong to our tribes, our clans, our families and our cultures but have decided to get rid of their Islamic faith (which to them is myth) and give place to "reason."

There, however, is an opportunity available for such secularization and scientific progress to thrive: by promoting a moderate middle class brand of Islam which claims that everyone has the right to speak their mind and the right to exist and that scientific progress should be adopted by Muslims. I feel that the atheists among the Muslims, who are in position of power, are providing a new version of Islam which allows these mulhid kaafirs to further progress their agenda while keeping the masses happy by the apparent presence of Islam. This modern seemingly authentic version of Islam presents people like Sayyed Qutb as an evil.

In short, I feel that the ex-Muslim atheists are in a position to influence state-controlled version of Islam which is false and yet allows for Western bigotry to impregnate young Muslim minds.

Please share your views. Do these things bother you? I have other important things to study but I feel that it is also my responsibility to study the intellectual atheistic (ex-Muslim) forces from among the Muslims trying to destroy Islam for the last 300 years.

[Maryan0]

These things come with the times. It saddens me that some Muslims would turn their backs on Islam (particularly when they have the most elementary understanding of it) but we will always have murtads and those who insult Islam. They existed during the prophets time, presently and will most likely exist in the future. Also nothing can destroy Islam...

One thing is common, all these humanist writers (such as Al-Azm) are against the "fundamentalist" Muslim thinkers such as Sayyed Qutb, Abu Ala' Al-Maududi, Hassan Al-Banna and many others. Why? because these "fundamentalist" Muslims in their books talk about jihad against the West and the secularization and the atheism that scientific progress brings.

I dont know what this means. The golden era of Islam brought alot to science. Science isnt just evolutionary theory.

I did not know that many Arab atheists (exMuslims) have risen against Islamic teachings, Islamic faith and traditions in the last 200 years, after being impressed by the Western enlightenment

What will happen when the dominance of western civilization ends. Nothing lasts in this dunya. Who will they be impressed with next. I dont understand such people.
I have a cousin who is an atheist and I've heard of other atheists in my community.They do seem to be on the rise. But than again everytime I go to the masjid I hear of people reverting to Islam. I think Islamic education should be open to other viewpoints to an extent. Learning about other beliefs or non-beliefs has only strengthened my Islam.

In short, I feel that the ex-Muslim atheists are in a position to influence state-controlled version of Islam which is false and yet allows for Western bigotry to impregnate young Muslim minds.

Isnt this already occuring? by our leaders and those in positions of power in the Muslim world. I dont know if they're atheists though. Western beliefs/culture have already permeated in the Muslim world.
Salam

[Pygoscelis]

The OP appears to be confusing atheism with secularism, apostacy, or even anti-religionism.

[CosmicPathos]

The OP appears to be confusing atheism with secularism, apostacy, or even anti-religionism.

No, I am not confusing those different phenomena. I am rather lumping them together into one group because they all share one thing: separation of Islam from politics and the freedom for atheists to openly and publicly spread their works in an Islamic state. Hence to me and to millions of other Muslims, a secularist Muslim = atheist.

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[Aprender]

I think that it's already happening somewhat. But what boggles my mind is how some Christians in the West are especially jumping on board to "get rid" of Islam with people who hold humanism and secularism up to such high standards above religion. It seems to me that they don't understand what's fully at stake seeing as they're only helping those against religion achieve what they want which is a society with very little, or no emphasis on religion at all.

One thing I always say though is that people want to go where they want to be led. So if there are a lot of young Muslims who are not strong and faith and decide to go this way then let them. I used to believe in the whole humanistic secularism "we are the world" movement as well. Mainly because I was in a position to influence the way and literally control what people are taught and believed. I came right back to religion because I hated the emptiness that it left me with. I had more unanswered questions and sorrow with that then I had with Christianity... I felt more oppressed and "stupid" living in that world than I did with religion.

But I don't think atheistic forces can control Islamic education as people tend to like to "see for themselves". You can talk about how bad something is. You can warn a teenager not to do something they should but we live in an era where people just love to learn the hard way. Atheism isn't for everybody.

[Argamemnon]

This modern seemingly authentic version of Islam presents people like Sayyed Qutb as an evil.

I have recently ordered "Fi Zilal al-Quran" by Sayyed Qutb, I'm pretty sure I will like this "evil" man's interpretation for the most part. There are no perfect tafseers, there are always mistakes and differing opinions, which is very normal. It would be strange if everyone agreed on everything...

In short, I feel that the ex-Muslim atheists are in a position to influence state-controlled version of Islam which is false and yet allows for Western bigotry to impregnate young Muslim minds.

I know there are atheist Turkish writers who are regularly commenting on the Quran as if it is their business. They are telling Muslims that the Quran actually does not say this or that and that Muslims are ignorant. In short, these people are supposedly trying to teach the real Islam while they are disbelievers, I don't know what to say. So yeah, I think it's one of their tactics, some also don't openly express their disbelief. Everyone has the right to reject Islam, but as Muslims it's our duty to be wary of these hypocrites and warn ignorant Muslims...

:w:

[GuestFellow]

Please share your views. Do these things bother you? I have other important things to study but I feel that it is also my responsibility to study the intellectual atheistic (ex-Muslim) forces from among the Muslims trying to destroy Islam for the last 300 years.

:sl:

I am not bothered to be honest. Allah will deal with them.

It is wise to study those who critique Muslims and Islam. These people have an agenda. For example, after 9/11, we have seen many individuals who have began to criticise Islam. Wafa Sultan, Nonie Darwish and Ayan are ex-Muslims and are strong critics of Islam. Douglas Murray who is another critic of Islam is the director of the Centre for Social Cohesion and gave speeches at the Hudson Institute.

As soon as you learn about the background of these people, you notice all of them have something in common. All of them strongly support Israel and receive significant support from several thinktanks.

So I think if you were to study these people, it is best to learn about their background. You understand what motivates them.

The OP appears to be confusing atheism with secularism, apostacy, or even anti-religionism.

Secularism and atheism complement each other in someways. Secularism means religion should have no role in politics but this can expand in many other areas. Where religion plays no role in politics, atheists are in a position to spread their beliefs.

[CosmicPathos]

:sl:

I am not bothered to be honest. Allah will deal with them.

It is wise to study those who critique Muslims and Islam. These people have an agenda. For example, after 9/11, we have seen many individuals who have began to criticise Islam. Wafa Sultan, Nonie Darwish and Ayan are ex-Muslims and are strong critics of Islam. Douglas Murray who is another critic of Islam is the director of the Centre for Social Cohesion and gave speeches at the Hudson Institute.

As soon as you learn about the background of these people, you notice all of them have something in common. All of them strongly support Israel and receive significant support from several thinktanks.

So I think if you were to study these people, it is best to learn about their background. You understand what motivates them.




Secularism and atheism complement each other in someways. Secularism means religion should have no role in politics but this can expand in many other areas. Where religion plays no role in politics, atheists are in a position to spread their beliefs.

walaikum assalam,

interesting point.

Its very interesting to note that there are two layers of these ex-Muslims. One is made of flamboyant idiots like Wafa Sultan, Ayan Hirsi etc who are quite illiterate and stupid. Another layer of ex-Muslims is made of people who are actually quite learned in the philosophies, sciences and sociology. Examples include Al-Azm, Shibli Shumayyel (he is considered the Thomas Huxley of the arab world). And then Salameh Moussa (considered the Herbert Spencer of the Arab world). These people are open murtids.

Then there are "modernistic" Muslims who want to reform Islam by telling us to use reason and to get rid of old ideas. There are also two layers: one of learned people (such as Mohammad Abdhu), other of idiots (such as the lesbian Irshad Manji from Canada). For example the all-famous Mohammad Abdu, the neo-mutazilite. He said that democracy is the way to go, polygamy is irrational/forbidden, Reason comes before revelation etc. In India, Syed Ahmed Khan was a modernist Islamic educator. He said that belief in Jinns is against reason, he wanted Muslims of India to learn the Western sciences and blamed this for the downfall of Muslims. I quote, "Believing that the future of Muslims was threatened by the rigidity of their orthodox outlook, Sir Syed began promoting Western-style scientific education by founding modern schools and journals and organising Muslim intellectuals. Towards this goal, Sir Syed founded the Muhammedan Anglo-Oriental College in 1875 with the aim of promoting social and economic development of Indian Muslims." wiki.

And I feel part of the blame is on the Muslim lay people. Do you see how they insult the revolutionary sayyed qutb and prevent people from reading his books?!!! We have stupid scholars for dollars(*cough* Saudi, Pakistani alike) giving fatawa agains Sayyed qutb while they themselves lick the boots of their Kaafir masters. Sayyed Qutb understood all of this and he wrote about it extensively in his Milestones and said the only solution to the Atheistic question is Jihad.

[Pygoscelis]

:sl:
As soon as you learn about the background of these people, you notice all of them have something in common.

Good observation, but you don't have to support Israel to oppose Islam. There are plenty of us who oppose both.

Where religion plays no role in politics, atheists are in a position to spread their beliefs.

True, and so are all religions, unlike where religion does play a role in politics, where one religion is favored at the expense of all others.

[Ali Mujahidin]

Do these things bother you?

Bother? That's putting it very mildly. These kind of things give me nightmares. Give it enough time to fester unopposed and the day will come when every Muslim will have to be registered with the state, put on an armband, be marked with a tattoo or be tagged with an electronic device. Too far-fetched? Not at all. The ways things are going, it would not be long before Islam is legally banned as a terrorist organization.

So what can be done to stem the assault? Start with yourself. Make it a point to upgrade your personal practice of Islam by a notch, however infinitesimally small, with each passing day. If you are in a country like Thailand where the authorities view Muslims without malice aforethought, consider going out for dakwah missions in the field like the way the Tablighi Jamaat do it, so that Islam can be seen to be practiced, not to show-off but as an encouragement for others to follow.

If you are in a country like Malaysia where any Muslim man wearing a jubah, serban and a beard is, by default, an enemy of the state, then you can try the usra model developed by the Ikhwan ul Muslimin, where you can get together discreetly with a few like-minded friends every week to read the Quran and Ahadith with the aim, in general, give each other emotional and spiritual support in the battle against the influence of the enemies of Islam.

Seriously, my brothers and sisters, the clarion call to arms had already been sounded 1400 years ago. Lazy laggard that I am, I am still struggling to rise to do my duty, stumbling and fumbling in ignorance and incompetence, so that I can answer clearly when I am queried by Allah on Judgment Day. Insha Allah.

Footnote:
Lest someone misunderstands, the term "call to arms" has a much, much broader meaning than simply "fight with weapons like guns, etc".