CANCER: Conventional Treatment vs Alternative (Natural) Treatment

[piXie]

:sl:

This thread is intended for discussion, so that we can gain a better understanding of the Cancer Epidemic and how to halt it inshaa Allaah.


How do you view cancer?


Which treatment would you choose for cancer and why?




Please Participate, even if its only a vote!

[Chavundur]

Wa Alaikum Salam

There are almost 200 different cancer type. Conventional treatment can be varied according to region and type. In this circumstances considering conventional treating is vital :..))

[Ummu Sufyaan]

wa alaykum us-Salaam

How do you view cancer?

i dont know much about it to have an opinion on it, tbh.

i would choose whatever i felt worked for me.

[CosmicPathos]

Alternative treatment doesnt seem to work.

If the cancer is fast growing, chemo drugs like cisplatin, vincristine etc can be used.

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[Sethi]

Cancer treatment is very time sensative, I have known many victims to cancer in the past (have had minor skin cancer myself). I would strongly encourage immediate and aggressive conventional treatment. Delaying that can cost your life.

There is a term for alternative medicine which has been verified to be effective. It is then called medicine.

[Woodrow]

I chose to stop all treatment about 5 years ago. I can not say that was the best choice but I can say that I seem to be still alive, I feel quite well most of the time and my mind only suffers from ignorance and not the effects of any medication.

I still do not fully understand why Allaah(swt) granted me the additional time on this earth, but I am grateful that he did Alhamdilullah and Insha Allah I will use this added time to the best of my ability in repentance for the many sins I have done.

My choice is no treatment, neither conventional nor alternative. I will not suggest that to be the best choice for anybody else, but for me I have gained by fully knowing that each breath is a gift and I am not guaranteed even one more

[Sethi]

Sorry to hear that Woodrow, I hope that your health holds up.

[Revert 2010]

Salaam, I would say conventional treatment if the cancer can be treated or prolong life, alternative if that person feels it may benefit them. I know it's a gruelling disease to have when undertaking conventional treatment chemo and radiation. Woodrow I hope Allah continues to bless you bro

[Woodrow]

Sorry to hear that Woodrow, I hope that your health holds up.

I thank you for your thoughts.

Salaam, I would say conventional treatment if the cancer can be treated or prolong life, alternative if that person feels it may benefit them. I know it's a gruelling disease to have when undertaking conventional treatment chemo and radiation. Woodrow I hope Allah continues to bless you bro

:wa: Akhi,

This is a great blessing for me. I am in no distress and am much more active than many people 40 years younger than me. I have survived much longer than I anticipated and deeply appreciate the additional time I was granted. But over all one must remember that after a person has lived past his 70th birthday, thoughts of death no longer have the power to hold a person captive with fear. I am at the age when preparation for my last days are routine. Age has removed any fear of disease, there are not many years left in an old body to worry about if disease steals a few. Many years are in my past. I am thankful I had my share and possibly a few extra ones.

[Chavundur]

This is a great blessing for me. I am in no distress and am much more active than many people 40 years younger than me. I have survived much longer than I anticipated and deeply appreciate the additional time I was granted. But over all one must remember that after a person has lived past his 70th birthday, thoughts of death no longer have the power to hold a person captive with fear. I am at the age when preparation for my last days are routine. Age has removed any fear of disease, there are not many years left in an old body to worry about if disease stills a few. Many years are in my past. I am thankful I had my share and possibly a few extra ones.

I congratulate you Woodrow, Allah made a kind offer you, He wanted your transient form of health for giving back eternal one. I had cancer too and I did almost same thing like you. When I was being treated, I read the message for Sick, I paste a part of it below. Actually, Real sickness in this world is not to experience sickness

SECOND POINT

As was explained concerning the meaning of Divine Determining, known as destiny, in the Twenty-Sixth Word, men have no right to complain in the case of disasters and illness for the following three reasons:

First Reason: God Most High has made the garment of the body with which He has clothed man a manifestation of His art. He has made man to be a model on which He cuts, trims, alters and changes the garment of the body, thus displaying the manifestation of various of His Names. Just as the Name of Healer makes it necessary that illness should exist, so too the Name of Provider requires that hunger should exist. And so on...

The Lord of All Dominion has disposal over His dominion as He wishes.

Second Reason: It is by means of disasters and sicknesses that life is refined, perfected, strengthened and advanced; that it yields results, attains perfection and fulfills its own purpose. Life led monotonously on the couch of ease and comfort resembles not so much the pure good that is being, as the pure evil that is non-being; it tends in fact in that direction.

Third Reason: This worldly realm is the field of testing, the abode of service. It is not the place of pleasure, reward, and requital. Considering, then, that it is the abode of service and place of worship, sicknesses and misfortunes-as long as they do not affect belief and are patiently endured-conform fully to service and worship, and even strengthen it. Since they make each hour's worship equivalent to that of a day, one should offer thanks instead of complaining.

Worship consists in fact of two kinds, positive and negative. What is meant by the positive is obvious. As for negative worship, this is when one afflicted with misfortune or sickness perceives his own weakness and helplessness, and turning to his Compassionate Sustainer, seeks refuge in Him, meditates upon Him, petitions Him, and thus offers a pure form of worship that no hypocrisy can penetrate. If he endures patiently, thinks of the reward attendant on misfortune and offers thanks, then each hour that he passes will count as a whole day spent in worship. His brief life becomes very long. There are even cases where a single minute is counted as equal to a whole day's worship.

I once was extremely anxious because of an awesome illness that struck one of my brothers of the Hereafter, Muhajir Hafiz Ahmed.3 But then a warning came to my heart: "Congratulate him!" Each minute he spends is counted as a whole day's worship. He was in any event enduring his illness in patience and gratitude.

THIRD POINT

As we have pointed out in one or two of the Words, whenever one thinks of his past life, he will say in his heart or with his tongue either "Ah!" or "Oh!" That is he will either experience regret, or say "Thanks and praise be to God." Regret is inspired by the pains arising from the cessation of former pleasures and separation from them. For the cessation of pleasure is a pain in itself. Sometimes a momentary pleasure will cause everlasting pain. To think upon it will be like lancing a wound, causing regret to gush forth.

As for the lasting spiritual pleasure that comes from the cessation of momentary pains experienced in the past, it inspires man to exclaim, "Thanks and praise be to God!" In addition to this innate tendency of man, if he thinks of the reward that results from misfortune and the requital that awaits him in the Hereafter, if he realizes that his brief life will count as a long life because of misfortune-then instead of being merely patient he should be thankful. He should say, "Praise be to God for every state other than unbelief and misguidance."

It is commonly said that misfortune is longlasting. Indeed it is, but not because it is troublesome and distressing as people customarily imagine, but rather because it yields vital results just like a long life.

...........

[Chavundur]

Real sickness in this world is not experience sickness

is not to experience, no editing choice

[FS123]

Posting just to wish you well Woodrow. As for the OP I don't specific answer. Conventional treatment seems to work faster, alternative not sure. I don't have enough info. But imo prevention is better than cure so healthy people should maintain good exercise, nutrition, and rest. And it should help people with the illness too.

[CosmicPathos]

Posting just to wish you well Woodrow. As for the OP I don't specific answer. Conventional treatment seems to work faster, alternative not sure. I don't have enough info. But imo prevention is better than cure so healthy people should maintain good exercise, nutrition, and rest. And it should help people with the illness too.

Theoretically, yes, prevention is better than treatment. But what do you say to those people who remained active through every year of their life, made sure they eat healthy food, never drank alcohol or smoked, never committed zina but were taken by a stage IV cancer out of the blue with only 5 months to live. Would you tell them on their death bed "you should have tried to live a healthy life style?" There are no hard and fast rules that prevention will guarantee or increase chances of a good health.

At least more than 50% of your health already has been determined the moment the sperm you are made up of fertilized the egg you are made of.

[Insaanah]

Which treatment would you choose for cancer and why?

To be honest, people need to be fully informed as to the pros and cons of each before they can give an answer to that question.

While conventional chemotherapy can be highly toxic, it in many cases (depending on the type of cancer) has been shown to cure, or to prolong survival, or to slow down the progression of the disease. This is typically demonstrated in phase III randomised double blind clinical trials in large populations. Drugs can be given to help minimise/alleviate the side effects.

As far as natural goes, I'm not aware of any studies of the above quality that consistently show such benefits.

Also, many conventional cancer agents have been originally derived from natural sources, such as paclitaxel from the Pacific Yew, vincristine from the Madagascar Periwinkle etc, though many are now produced completely or semi-synthetically.

Another thing to bear in mind, is that natural products can be toxic too. Everyone assumes natural equals safe, but that's not always the case. Some plants are highly toxic. And the properties of plant extracts, when isolated from the other components of plants, can differ from those of the whole plant or the whole leaf etc, and can become far more concentrated, increasing the potential for side effects.

There is research going on into natural treatments for cancer, and the results are awaited, but treatments must be evidence based, and the evidence is simply not there yet.

I am one of those who would normally opt for a natural treatment if I had a choice, but with something like cancer, there is a real risk that if you choose natural treatment and undertake it, that your disease could progress in that time, and then by the time you decide to try conventional treatment, it could be too late. I'm not saying conventional would work, but the evidence base for it is far stronger.

May Allah never put us in a position where we even have to think about this choice. Ameen.

[FS123]

Theoretically, yes, prevention is better than treatment. But what do you say to those people who remained active through every year of their life, made sure they eat healthy food, never drank alcohol or smoked, never committed zina but were taken by a stage IV cancer out of the blue with only 5 months to live. Would you tell them on their death bed "you should have tried to live a healthy life style?" There are no hard and fast rules that prevention will guarantee or increase chances of a good health.

At least more than 50% of your health already has been determined the moment the sperm you are made up of fertilized the egg you are made of.

This life is temporary and it is not meant to be free of troubles. Healthy living is the sunnah: keeping clean, etc... But when people have troubles -- following video sums it up nicely and it is only 9 mins:


But new researches are suggesting it is not always directed by genes as some genes get triggered under certain conditions, so living a healthy lifestyle is worth the try even though some people are more predisposed for certain health troubles.

As for the treatment I said: "Conventional treatment seems to work faster, alternative not sure. I don't have enough info."

[nousername]

Asalam alaykum,

May Allah swt protect ALL of us from cancer - I have seen it horribly suck the life out of a few close family members of mine. If I get cancer, inshaAllah I will go into an all out war with it. I would start with conventional methods. If I get to a point where I'm told that the conventional methods don't work any longer or that the conventional methods are making me miserable and their is no hope for me, then I would use homeopathic methods.

[almannai]

Wa Alaikum Salam

Intersting thread

[Trumble]

I chose 'conventional', as I'm not aware of any natural alternative that is at all effective. Note the word alternative, I see no reason not try natural treatments in conjunction with conventional ones if there is any beneficial effect, even if just the placebo effect.

However, I don't really think the poll really reflects the reality of choices many cancer sufferers face, as I think Woodrow has illustrated. There isn't really any 'versus'. Generally, if there is a good chance conventional radiotherapy, chemotherapy etc. will result in a cure or even a significant improvement in life expectancy, people will choose it. What it comes down to, though, in so many cases is quality of life when, even when there still be a remote 'chance' of that cure and a better one of prolonging life a little, the sufferer does not consider further treatment desirable.

When my mother was first diagnosed with cancer, she had immediate surgery and that was followed first by radio-therapy and then - with that not having been as effective as hoped, by chemo. That put the cancer into remission for over a year, but it came back (as her consultant told me he was always fairly certain it would), and she was offered a range of treatments again. I was with her at her meeting with the consultant, and although she asked my opinion I could tell she didn't need it and didn't offer it. She refused further treatment beyond the very 'long-shot' of hormone pills, I supported her in that decision and so did her consultant. She died some eight months later, but certainly the first six of those (the last two wouldn't have been much different either way, sadly) were well worth living, and even enjoyable for her - that would not have been the case had she had further chemo. For so many, that is the real choice. As my mother acknowledged, she had had a 'good innings'; the really tragedy is when that choice is faced by the young.

[piXie]

Jazak Allaah Khayr for your input everyone. I just wanted a general idea of how much the members here were aware of natural treatments for cancer.

There is research going on into natural treatments for cancer, and the results are awaited, but treatments must be evidence based, and the evidence is simply not there yet.

You mean like.. scientific evidence? Sometimes, some things may not have official studies done on them (perhaps lack of money, resources etc), But... results speak for themselves. Maaany people have been cured from cancer (even in its late stages) using the same natural treatments, which have worked numerous times.

Isn't that evidence enough? :hmm:

[Amanda]

I think if I was facing that sort of choice, which I pray never to have to face... I would definitely be starting with conventional meds, but would be open to anything that seemed to work, alternative or conventional.

[جوري]

I didn't read every post but would say it depends on the cancer.. Some have a very high cure rate with conventional treatment so why would I consider anything else? and some are deadly within a couple of months in which case I might consider other options.. thus I have chosen not sure..

:w:

[piXie]

Some have a very high cure rate with conventional treatment so why would I consider anything else?

So that u can avoid going under the knife, compromise half your body limbs and loose all your hair ? :hmm:

If there is a treatment where a person does not have to go through all the traumatic side effects, why insist on pumping ur system with toxic drugs and radiation, which by the way, are one of the causes of cancer in the first place..

[جوري]

So that u can avoid going under the knife, compromise half your body limbs and loose all your hair ? :hmm:

If there is a treatment where a person does not have to go through all the traumatic side effects, why insist on pumping ur system with toxic drugs and radiation, which by the way, are one of the causes of cancer in the first place..

not all cancers are operable and not all cancers are deadly.. if a cancer can be resected surgically that is actually a lucky thing.. certain thyroid cancers can be completely resected with a 90% cure rate, why should I wait for a cancer to metastasize with 'natural' treatment when I can get rid of it in one go? most times unfortunately cancers are very advanced and treatment is used only to palliate.. be that as it may it is a known fact that deadly diseases require dangerous treatment .. shark cartilage isn't going to do it for a GBM no matter what the advertisements say furthermore 'Natural' isn't necessarily without harm. Many 'Natural' things are quite deadly.. dignoxin is natural and not synthetic and can cause delirium, convulsions, death!
So I guess we need to define what Natural is? If there were some miracle treatments in various herbs there would be a fortune to be made.. for cancer unfortunately in order to arrest growth and proliferation, medications that cause an arrest in one of the phases of cell growths has to be used.. Ideally folks would like to make treatments that target only cancer cells and strides are being made in that.. but fact is most treatments target most cells which causes all the nasty side effects.. It is a juggling act..
either the cancer kills or the drugs kill or the immune system just collapses so a person needs to understand all their options.. I don't see how anyone can make such a decision based on a poll..

:w:

[FS123]

I like holistic approach. By that I mean right nutrition, exercise, rest. Here is a good lecture on food and cancer: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/william_li.html But this approach is prevention based rather than cure. Once cancer reaches a stage, I guess there is no other choice then to go through conventional.

[piXie]

why should I wait for a cancer to metastasize with 'natural' treatment when I can get rid of it in one go?

There are less chances of a cancer metastasizing and re-occurring with a natural and holistic approach, this is because the Holistic and natural approach treats the cause, strengthens the natural defenses of the body, and creates an internal environment which makes the cancer difficult to survive.

Cancerous cells are mistreated cells. They need to be understood and rectified, not cut out. That will only cause other health risks and complications,

it is a known fact that deadly diseases require dangerous treatment

Not always. Many times it’s the simplest of solutions which get rid of the most complicated of problems. If we understand the human body and give it what it needs, miracles happen.

.. shark cartilage isn't going to do it for a GBM no matter what the advertisements say

lol maybe it would maybe it wouldn’t. It has proven to prevent the process of angiogenesis in certain cancer patients, but I am not sure if it’s been tried for GMB.

Treatment of cancer is not done by any one herb or food, it’s a whole process of strengthening n rectifying the internal balance of the body.

furthermore 'Natural' isn't necessarily without harm. Many 'Natural' things are quite deadly.. dignoxin is natural and not synthetic and can cause delirium, convulsions, death!
So I guess we need to define what Natural is?

Yea, by natural I mean Living foods and Herbs. I’m not referring to those natural things which are deadly.

If there were some miracle treatments in various herbs there would be a fortune to be made..

That is what I thought too, but doesn’t seem like it. These herbs and Living foods can be grown in your garden and inside your kitchen.

The only people who would be sad are the drug industry. It would mean their millions a year business going down. :ermm:

for cancer unfortunately in order to arrest growth and proliferation, medications that cause an arrest in one of the phases of cell growths has to be used.. Ideally folks would like to make treatments that target only cancer cells and strides are being made in that.. but fact is most treatments target most cells which causes all the nasty side effects.. It is a juggling act..

Like I stated above, there are treatments out there which target just the cancer cells, and not only that but at the same time strengthen all the other body cells. Its only a matter of researching beyond the drug world and what the medical profession teaches.

either the cancer kills or the drugs kill or the immune system just collapses so a person needs to understand all their options.. I don't see how anyone can make such a decision based on a poll..

nah.. no one is expected to make such a decision based upon a poll. The poll is just there to give a general idea of how people view cancer and whether they believe it can be cured using natural treatments.

[al yunan]

Assalamu Alaikum to all,

When one is faced with a deadly ailment the first thing that surfaces is Aqidah.
Depending what and how one believes is how one decides what to do, for example brother Woodrow chose Tawakal Allah and probably also chose some other Asbab for cure.
I was told that part of my foot had to be cut off, I chose a herbal cure yes it was painful but I still have my foot.
In my case I feared more having to explain the loss of my foot rather than the loss itself.
Allah S.W.T has promised us a cure for every ailment except death.
Do we Muslims really believe He gave those cures to our enemies to manipulate us plus feed us poisons ?
I for one will never ever believe that.
We taught the west Medicine now look at us.
We deserve every ailment under the sun until we wake up to the truth.

May Allah S.W.T grant us Hidaya.
Masalam


PS: By the way the best cure I've ever hear for Cancer is Amygdalin it only costs cents but available only to the rich and powerfull.
As for the poor folk you can obtain it from peaches, the fruit and the almond like seed. It is rumored to be a recipe of Hippocrates himself. Allahu Waalam

[Woodrow]

an important reminder for all:

DO NOT USE ANY WEBSITE AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO MEDICAL ADVICE OR TREATMENT.

IT IS ONLY AN OPINION AS TO WHAT WORKED OR DID NOT WORK FOR THE PERSON WHO WRITES THE OPINION.

[piXie]

Thanks for reminder uncle woody. I hope no one is doing that.

[جوري]

There are less chances of a cancer metastasizing and re-occurring with a natural and holistic approach, this is because the Holistic and natural approach treats the cause, strengthens the natural defenses of the body, and creates an internal environment which makes the cancer difficult to survive.

That sounds nice in theory, but fact is molecular and cell bio is with us today not light years away.. we know the mechanism of action of drugs and we understand cellular physiology. and they go hand in hand. Most labels on these so-called 'natural/holistic' products read beautifully and are convincing but no science goes into it.
The truth of the matter is, they now have to teach doctors and pharmacists about these so-called natural products because many of them cause everything from thrombocytopenia to cardiac and liver toxicity not to mention can intact dangerously with FDA approved medications.
Further their efficacy, side-effect profile, benefits aren't clearly understood not only since so few of them are randomized head to head with FDA approved meds but since there is no phase 1-IV trial there is absolutely no restriction and no liability in the very likely case that something goes awry.

ex. Everyone totes the benefits of St. John's wort for depression compared to SSRI's.. well St. John's wort is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (the older classes of depression meds) which had a very unfavorable side effect profile compared to SSRI's.
Either way, it along with SSRI's did worst than placebo in an NIH conducted double blind trial..
Any thing you allege is natural has to work by means we already know, and everything you put in your body has an adverse effect!

Cancerous cells are mistreated cells. They need to be understood and rectified, not cut out. That will only cause other health risks and complications,

You can't change the DNA once it has gone bad.. if your genetics code for brown iris pigmentation, there is very little you can do to change that, even so some strides are being made in that area there and possible with vectors and genetic engineering to change some things it is not an area for some mysterious natural herb. I am not sure why you're down on cutting cancer cells out.. If a cancer can be caught early enough to be 'cut out' then that is actually the best policy.. later tumor markers can be used to check for recurrence of disease but it is in situ then it is a very lucky thing to be able to cut it out!

Not always. Many times it’s the simplest of solutions which get rid of the most complicated of problems. If we understand the human body and give it what it needs, miracles happen.

Science is indeed a miracle not wishful thinking.

lol maybe it would maybe it wouldn’t. It has proven to prevent the process of angiogenesis in certain cancer patients, but I am not sure if it’s been tried for GMB.

by what means?

Treatment of cancer is not done by any one herb or food, it’s a whole process of strengthening n rectifying the internal balance of the body.

That is what modern medicine does, it addresses nutritional/psychological/physiological needs of the patient. It is very doubtful that something bought over the counter could do that!

Yea, by natural I mean Living foods and Herbs. I’m not referring to those natural things which are deadly.

foods and herbs can be used in conjunction but certainly not a substitute!

That is what I thought too, but doesn’t seem like it. These herbs and Living foods can be grown in your garden and inside your kitchen.

Back in the day, various herbs were gathered from places like Brazil taken into the lab, broken down and looked into to see in which way they can help, alot of the medications we have come from all sorts of oddities like postmenopausal women's urine, to fish testicles, to byproducts of bacteria (yes I kid you not) but we can also achieve great results with synthesized meds. But whether coming from someone's pee or testicle I'd still rather have it go through phases of trials then have it on the counter with a pretty label and mystery everything else.

The only people who would be sad are the drug industry. It would mean their millions a year business going down. :ermm:

I doubt that very much!

Like I stated above, there are treatments out there which target just the cancer cells, and not only that but at the same time strengthen all the other body cells. Its only a matter of researching beyond the drug world and what the medical profession teaches.

You're welcome to share those here

nah.. no one is expected to make such a decision based upon a poll. The poll is just there to give a general idea of how people view cancer and whether they believe it can be cured using natural treatments.

What is actually really sad is that one in three will be plagued with cancer at some point in their lives, I sure do hope to God, they make an educated decision about their choice of treatment!

:w:

[piXie]

hmmmmm. This might take some time to explain. Please bear with me until my exams finish.

[piXie]

:salamext:

Alhamdulillaah eXms r over **until 2 months** :D Jazak Allaah Khair for your patience.

That sounds nice in theory,

It does sound nice in theory, but, it’s actually even better in practice. When a person speaks of a holistic and natural approach, they are not referring to products with wishful labels. That would be a misunderstanding.

Perhaps it should first be explained what is meant by 'Holistic Treatment' of cancer.

If a fish is ill because of contaminated water, will you give it a drug or change the water?

Common sense will tell us to change the water, right? Well, very simply put, that is holistic medicine. Prescribing a drug without removing the harm or addressing the underlying causes of the disease may ease the symptoms for a short while, but it will never cure the condition.

Holistic Treatment uses the reverse method. Instead of targeting and concentrating on the cancer itself, it targets and concentrates on the underlying causes of the cancer. It removes the harm first i.e. eliminates all the possible factors which are causing or contributing towards the spread of cancer (e.g. free radicals, toxins, carcinogens etc)

An example,

Let’s say a house is infested with mice. You can either;

a) Burn the mice out. Risks involved: costs; may damage house; no guarantee every mouse has been killed; house re-infested after some time due to bits of food.

OR..

b) Seal all the cracks, keep the place totally clean and food free. Risks involved: None; eventually every mouse will die; cannot survive in an environment without food.

Just like there is a reason for a mouse being in a house, there is a reason for the cancer being in the body. Cancer doesn’t just appear out of nowhere, there is a reason it’s there. Something has aggravated those cells which have mutated. The faster we understand the reason (cause) and remove it, the faster we are on our way to prevention and recovery.

In the same way that the mice will die when they are not given their specific environment to survive, the cancer cells will also die if they are not given their specific environment.

We need to understand the concepts and principles first, in order to successfully treat. The diseases people have may be different, our bodies may be different, but the principles of health are the same.

This is how holistic and natural medicine approaches cancer, as well as many other illnesses. And because they understand the correct concepts (which are also explained in the Prophets Medicine :arabic5: ) they have more answers and are more successful than conventional medicine in their treatments. Take a skin disease like eczema as an example. Acc to conv med, there is no cure for it, but acc to hol. med there is.

The prognosis of a disease depends very much on the type of treatment we choose. If a person is ill because of nutritional deficiencies, we could prescribe as many as 1000 drugs and it will not help. It will only make the person more sick, and then what.. we prescribe more drugs?

I am not sure why you're down on cutting cancer cells out.. If a cancer can be caught early enough to be 'cut out' then that is actually the best policy.. later tumor markers can be used to check for recurrence of disease but it is in situ then it is a very lucky thing to be able to cut it out!

I understand in some dire situations the cancer has to be cut out, like where the growth may be compressing an artery or vein. In situations like that, conventional intervention may be necessary.

But why in every cancer case? Many, if not most cancers can be cured without using such an intrusive method of treatment which compromises half a patients organs and limbs.

Cutting, burning or drugging out every cancer is not solving the problem or curing the disease. Infact, the toxicity of these type of treatments may actually contribute to the cancer spreading further.

That is what modern medicine does, it addresses nutritional/psychological/physiological needs of the patient.

Does it though? Modern medicine will prescribe the fish a drug. :ermm:

foods and herbs can be used in conjunction but certainly not a substitute!

The food we eat nowadays is certainly not a substitute. Infact, it is actually contributing towards the spread of cancer.

But, there are foods, high quality, nutritious living foods which, if taken in a certain quantity, can have a Therapeutic effect and totally shoot the cancer in its roots.

If u dont believe that, research for yourself. In a world we live in today, a student is not always taught the correct thing at school, they have to search for it themselves.

A patient is not always informed about all their options, they have to search for them, themselves.

Sad reality, but, its everyone to themselves.

I doubt that very much!

You may doubt that very much, but the drug industry doesn't. They feel threatened by natural therapies. See for yourself.. natural therapies are under attack.

What is actually really sad is that one in three will be plagued with cancer at some point in their lives, I sure do hope to God, they make an educated decision about their choice of treatment!

I hope they do too. But you will agree that its hard to change people's views when they have been bought up to believe in certain concepts. Remember when science discovered the world is round?

[piXie]

Btw for anyone who is interested in more information on Holistic treatments for cancer and other diseases, I'd recommend these books:

1. 100% Health by Patrick Holford


2. Wheatgrass, Natures finest medicine by Steve Meyerowitz


3. Encyclopedia of Herbal Medicine by Thomas Bartram


If anyone knows any more, please share!

[FS123]

I'll post Dr. William Li's lecture again, he explains it very well and lecture is only 20 mins: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/william_li.html

Dr. William Li presents a new way to think about treating cancer and other diseases: anti-angiogenesis, preventing the growth of blood vessels that feed a tumor. The crucial first (and best) step: Eating cancer-fighting foods that cut off the supply lines and beat cancer at its own game.

It is very informative lecture, it also talks about food synergies and shows results from clinical trials.

Btw for anyone who is interested in more information on Holistic treatments for cancer and other diseases, I'd recommend these books:

1. 100% Health by Patrick Holford


2. Wheatgrass, Natures finest medicine by Steve Meyerowitz


3. Encyclopedia of Herbal Medicine by Thomas Bartram


If anyone knows any more, please share!

[piXie]

Brilliant, Jazak Allaah Khair for posting that!

[piXie]

A cancer patient told me not so long ago, that they went to Germany for an alternative cancer treatment. It has shown positive results, alhamdulillaah. Someone else I know mentioned Clinics in Germany too, where qualified doctors are treating cancer without chemotherapy. Anyways, I came across this while searching the net about it.

Quite interesting...

The most scientifically advanced cancer treatment you can get on planet earth

By Andrew Scholberg (healthcare consumer advocate and a medical journalist)

Dear Friend,

Having toured 17 cancer clinics in four countries, let me tell you about the astounding cancer breakthrough in Germany......a stunning advancement that makes the hellish cancer treatments in America obsolete.

Yes, Germany's top cancer doctors have a long track record, proving that drastic surgery, burning radiation, and poisonous chemo are now out of date . They've developed a better way.
Incredible as it sounds, Germany's top cancer doctors literally "cook" cancer out of your body while you sleep -- and you wake up without any bad side effects.

No bad side effects.

No hair loss, no vomiting, and no nausea.

The German cancer cure is turning the worldwide medical community upside down! Patients whip their cancer in Germany and enjoy a new lease on life. Yet the American medical establishment hides the amazing German cancer cure from you.

It's shocking that some American doctors still insist on drastic, disfiguring surgeries such as radical mastectomies. Just as shocking, some American doctors still insist on "orchectomies" for prostate patients -- the surgical removal of the testicles!

But these crude operations are definitely obsolete according to a German surgeon I interviewed.
This brilliant surgeon insists it's unnecessary to poison patients with massive doses of chemo. He also says the drastic, disfiguring cancer surgeries Americans take for granted are totally unnecessary...

During my tour of six German cancer clinics, I found out German doctors have leaped far ahead of American doctors.
While still in office, President Reagan got rid of his cancer the German way
When President Ronald Reagan got cancer during his presidency, the great German doctor Hans Nieper, M.D, treated him. It would have been front page news if it hadn't been hushed up at the time.
Just imagine if the American public knew a sitting president preferred German cancer treatments!
I learned about it from my confidential source in Germany. In addition, Reagan's German doctor acknowledged it in an interview.

Reagan lived for another 19 years
He died at age 93, and not from cancer.
No wonder so many other celebrities and even European royalty have gone to Germany to get rid of their cancer.

But first let me briefly introduce myself. I'm Andrew Scholberg, a healthcare consumer advocate and a medical journalist. I'm not a doctor. And that gives me an advantage because, as a journalist, I'm free to tell you about the alternative treatments your doctor can't tell you about without getting into serious trouble.

And that's no exaggeration. I've interviewed several American doctors who've been hassled by medical boards or the government. One distinguished doctor served 56 days on a road gang -- like "Cool Hand Luke" -- before the governor pardoned him.
Health-care freedom in America has all but disappeared.

read the rest here: http://quantumtouch.groupee.net/eve/...1/m/4281083582

Also if anyone is interested in purchasing the German Cancer Breakthrough: A Guide to Top German Alternative Clinics. CLICK --> http://www.germancancerbreakthrough.com/

see also: http://www.cancertutor.com/Cancer03/GermanClinics.html

[dž.as.a.džasmin]

I watched this on Ted few days ago, a man cured himself of cancer.
ted.com/talks/lang/eng/dave_debronkart_meet_e_patient_dave.html

[Riana17]

Salam Alaikkum,

This is real story happend here in ME

A doctor told a man to leave here and go back to Lebanon as he has only 2months to live.

One friend offer his wife in secret to keep him here and he would do 'something' which she agrees on and said, if nothing improves in a month, you can leave.

So he didnt file a resignation, just a leave and stay.

Each morning he would bring him a fresh camel's milk and instructed the wife to make him drink it immediately & throw the left over without fail.

She carefully followed it for a month and finally visited the doctor.

The doctor made test and another test and repeated them once again, he was shocked and said 'what have you done'? He said nothing, I am just drinking fresh camel's milk from my friend.

The secret which he didnt knew??? His friend would add camel's urine in the milk....


After hearing I told my husband and he said yes, they are using the camel's urine for medicine on older times.


wikipedia...

Islam In Sunni Islam, the Sahih Bukhari, which forms one of the six major Hadith collections quotes the Prophet Muhammad advocating drinking camel's urine as a medicine in several verses.^[12][13][14]
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 71, Number 590:

Narrated Anas: The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet ordered them to follow his shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as a medicine).^[12]

Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 794:

Narrated Anas: Some people from the tribe of 'Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophets ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die.^[15][16]

Although it is recorded in the Bukhari that Prophet Muhammad advocated drinking camel urine as a medicine to his followers, and did not describe it as dirty or demeaning, later commentators find urine to be something that is "filth in an extreme degree" without denouncing its alleged medicinal properties.^[16] Abū Ḥanīfa said that it's disliked, but not forbidden, to drink the urine from camels.^[16] Abu Yusuf said that urine from camels can be consumed for medicinal purposes.^[16]

[piXie]

extract from artcile in post #35

FDA officials sneak off to Germany
for the treatments they deny you

Back in 1987, Dr. Nieper let a man named Jeff Harsh interview him for a video documentary. After commenting that “President Reagan is a very nice man,” Dr. Nieper declared:

“You wouldn’t believe how many FDA officials or relatives or acquaintances of FDA officials come to see me as patients in Hanover. You wouldn’t believe this — or directors of the American Medical Association (AMA), or American Cancer Society (ACS), or the presidents of orthodox cancer institutes. That’s the fact.”

Well, that’s America’s cancer establishment for you.

FDA officials and their colleagues want you to submit to disfiguring surgery, poisonous chemo, and burning radiation when you get cancer. But when they get cancer — well, that’s different! They go to Germany to get rid of their cancer. For themselves, they prefer treatments that are more effective and don’t have any side effects.


America’s cancer system is a broken down mess

These fat cats don’t practice what they preach, so why do they hide the German cancer breakthrough from you? Most likely, the answer is money. Cancer treatment in America has become a racket. It costs $350,000 to die of cancer in America.

You could buy a nice house for that kind of money — and pay cash!

The fact is, the drug companies get filthy rich when you buy their grossly overpriced chemo drugs, one of which costs $10,000 a month!

But don’t blame your doctor. He’s so pressed for time that he relies on the medical establishment’s “experts” to tell him what works and what doesn’t. Furthermore, he knows that he risks losing his license if he breathes even a word about alternative therapies for cancer. So he does the best he can in a broken system.

American doctors aren’t evil; they simply tell you what they learned in medical school. And unfortunately, the American medical schools are under the thumb of the drug companies. The drug company executives, on the other hand, aren’t so innocent.

........

[piXie]

more from the article..

Why this surgeon recommends against surgery

I wish every American cancer surgeon could hear what this German surgeon told me about the nature of cancer:

“In cancer, the whole body is ill. You can’t just cut off a breast and pretend everything’s OK. You must treat the whole patient. That’s why we use a combination therapy for the whole body. As a surgeon, I usually recommend against surgery. You’ll get metastasis unless you get at the cause of the cancer. It’s not enough just to get rid of the tumor. You have to get rid of the metastasized cells, and that requires treating the whole body.”

German cancer doctors pull cancer out by the roots while American cancer doctors just dither around treating symptoms. That’s a BIG difference.

American researchers acknowledge
the German cancer breakthrough

American cancer researchers generally frown on alternative, complementary, and integrative treatments for cancer. It’s been said that their idea of research is to see if two doses of this poison are better than three doses of that poison.

But researchers from Columbia University in New York were at least open-minded enough to travel to one of Germany’s top cancer clinics and examine several “terminal” cases of cancer. All of these cancers were cured using the German cancer breakthrough.

The researchers were forced to admit that the German therapy “merits further study.”

[piXie]

and more....

Cancer dilemma: do you swat mosquitoes or drain the swamp?

Perhaps the main difference between American cancer doctors and their German counterparts is that the American doctors only focus on the symptom of cancer, which is the tumor. But that’s like swatting mosquitoes. After you’ve swatted one, another one soon appears.

That’s the way it is with cancer, if you focus only on the tumor. What good does it do to get rid of a tumor if another one grows back?

“Swatting mosquitoes” doesn’t cut it. You have to get at the root cause. You have to drain the swamp! And that’s why the select German cancer doctors in my report are so successful. Of course, they’re good at getting rid of tumors, but they also focus on the root causes of cancer: toxicity in the body and improper diet.

The typical cancer patient’s body is sludged up with all kinds of toxins that must come out of the body. American cancer doctors totally ignore this toxic mess, while German doctors use effective therapies to get rid of it.

[جوري]

Cancer dilemma: do you swat mosquitoes or drain the swamp?


Perhaps the main difference between American cancer doctors and their German counterparts is that the American doctors only focus on the symptom of cancer, which is the tumor. But that’s like swatting mosquitoes. After you’ve swatted one, another one soon appears.

That’s the way it is with cancer, if you focus only on the tumor. What good does it do to get rid of a tumor if another one grows back?

“Swatting mosquitoes” doesn’t cut it. You have to get at the root cause. You have to drain the swamp! And that’s why the select German cancer doctors in my report are so successful. Of course, they’re good at getting rid of tumors, but they also focus on the root causes of cancer: toxicity in the body and improper diet.

The typical cancer patient’s body is sludged up with all kinds of toxins that must come out of the body. American cancer doctors totally ignore this toxic mess, while German doctors use effective therapies to get rid of it.

This was clearly written by someone who has no idea about types of cancers or cancer treatments in America!
I am the first one to point out what's wrong with this country. But Medicine in the U.S is bar none!
and a large number of doctors in the U.S are from the middle east and Asia!

also addendum to the above. It would be a very lucky thing indeed if we're able to eviscerate a cancer once you get venous, multi nodal involvement and to the deeper muscularis propria no amount of resection is going to help.. The DNA itself is damaged.. The person who writes these articles is just misleading people, especially to the etiology of disease, I am not going to even touch upon treatment!

:w:

[FS123]

I watched this on Ted few days ago, a man cured himself of cancer.
ted.com/talks/lang/eng/dave_debronkart_meet_e_patient_dave.html

That was very good, thanks!

[piXie]

Just adding this documentary here too, and bumping this thread. Pls raise awareness.



CANCER: THE FORBIDDEN CURES

[Snowflake]

Member X: If a fish is ill because of contaminated water, will you give it a drug or change the water?

Excellent!

And do not be cast into ruin by your own hands.... (2:195) The principle of Prophetic Medicine is to not cause harm. And the medicine itself should rid the body of harmful substances not increase them.

[Salahudeen]

What was the combination of herbs that the lady in the video used to cure it??

[جوري]

Just adding this documentary here too, and bumping this thread. Pls raise awareness.

When people have cancer I assure you they don't care for this kind of awareness. Many cancers change the structure of the DNA itself so that the immune system doesn't recognize the cancer cells as foreign for the immune system to attack.
I invite you t share with me the mechanism of action by which the 'Natural' cures work.
Cancer treatments are deadly because they target the cell with hopes that it will put cancer cells into remission or arrest.
Stem cells are being used to make this more target specific however it is a known fact that people will die either of the cancer or the medications, and the alternative stuff doesn't do much to change the fact of the matter save act as a placebo.
One case or two aren't reflective of the population at large, because even with the worst stage IV GBM some 1% will make it past two years.. to suggest that it is because they took some alternative crap is naive at best.
I feel very strongly against what you guys write here not just as a physician but because I have had more than one member of my family and friends succumb to cancer which could have otherwise been treated if caught at an early stage for listening to quacks.
My aunt has advanced breast cancer now because she kept taking 'alternate' cures until her cancer metastasized you should see her now with her skin necrotic and cancer in her bone.
Walhi I'd fear Allah with what you're putting out there to delude people into thinking that there's hope in something where you can't prove nor have given solid scientific evidence to how it works or some double blind study to prove that it is anything but placebo.
The success rate for a GIST tumor with imatinib mesylate is over 90% over five years or what would you recommend in this case? and do you have data to show similar success using 'alternative'?


:w:

[piXie]

:salamext: ukhtee,

Im short for time due to exams again, but I'm sincerely sorry to hear about your aunt & other friends and family members. I am not sure which alternate treatment your aunt used as there are many out there, but I just wanted to bring your attention to the link below. I've not had a chance to read it properly yet but I would like it if you could please look into it and investigate it further. May Allaah grant shifaa to your aunt and all those suffering from cancer. Aameen.

http://www.anti-aging-health.com/GermanCBT.pdf

The doctors contact details should also be in the link and the list of therapies they use, including chemotherapy in low doses if deemed neccessary. You are right that some cancers are not recognised by the immune system but according to the German doctors, there are therapies for that too (e.g. dendritic cell vaccines).

.....

where you can't prove nor have given solid scientific evidence to how it works or some double blind study to prove that it is anything but placebo.

Did u get a chance to watch the documentary?

If u are interested in looking into this further, it is best that you speak to those doctors in Germany.

P.S. JazakAllaahu Khayr for your patience.

[Muhaba]

Surah Al-Fatiha. it is a Ruqya. there are hadith about it that if you read it, you will be cured with Allah's permission and if not, then you will get Jannah. so read Surah Al-fatiha many many times on the cancer patient and insha-Allah they will be cured. also, pray Salati-hajjah daily and ask for cure.

[جوري]

I am not interested in looking at third party information that have no semblance of science in them.
I have asked and give you an example of a drug for cancer where the success rate is over 90% and asked that you grant me the same courtesy by showing me alternate meds that can do that. It is really that simple.
Allah swt didn't ask us to pray the diseases away only, anymore than we'd be granted victory merely out of praying. Maryam PBUH didn't have dates fall upon her from the sky while pregnant she was commanded to shake the palm tree.. I hope you see a theme here?
Yes there two types of cures that are spoken of, one of Ruqya and that is called ' a la ma3qool' and the other known as medicine, they didn't have the diseases that we have now then to use the things you suggest then for now. Nor did the prophet PBUH make it a prohibition to seek proper medicine in fact we're told for every ailment there's a cure.
I am asking you to evince what you say with some science not words, don't send me to speak to doctors in Germany, that does nothing for me and it does nothing for people who have cancer in late stages and mets.
I am asking you to reflect on the words you put out as if authoritative and reflect on what course you personally would take when faced with such a situation of your own mortality with young kids at hand.
My uncle's wife recently died leaving him three young kids, he himself had a triple bypass would you suggest he also pray that away and take some honey and black seed to remove a three vessel blockage?

:w:

[Muhaba]

of course one has to get tests done and conventional treatment where it exists but at the same time do dua. unfortunately some cancers don't have a cure and many ppl are dying of it. chemotherapy and other treatment dont work for them and the cancer spreads, causing many to die.

but dua & ruqya does work even where other treatment fails.

May Allah have mercy on your uncle's wife and give patience to the rest of the family. ameen

[جوري]

Not all cancer drugs are meant simply to cure.. sometimes we win, sometimes we lose, we've to give it a try and forge forward with research. I have not said anything against Ruqya and du3a in fact strongly adhere to:

Ash-Shu'ara (The Poets)> [26:80]

Ash-Shu'ara (The Poets)[26:80]

[RECITE]

[top] [next match]

Waitha maridtu fahuwa yashfeeni

26:80 "And when I am ill, it is He Who cures me;

but that also denotes all the means that Allah swt gave us to combat that, spiritually and physically for they both go hand in hand.
I feel very strongly against giving such detrimental advise as is given here with so-called alternative cures as it happens one in three people will suffer from cancer. So it is something to think about when 'spreading the word' just because everyone suffers from cancer doesn't also mean everyone dies of it and that is because of advances in modern medicine a science that Allah swt gave us and resources he left us in the earth and knowledge he made manifest in us to forge forward. I have already demonstrated that not everything 'Natural' is without harm and given an example of cardiac glycosides which are extracted from plants.
Natural things are still subjected to synthesis in the body and that happens through known means, through physiology that we have an understanding of. And Allah swt commanded us to seek knowledge, that it is a way to Jannah and undoubtedly useful for there here and now as well.
There's no magic involved here..

:w:

[Insaanah]

:sl:

Looking at the link above, I've skimmed through and got to page 33, and see case reports of success stories. What there is no mention of however, is how many people came to each clinic, the treatment did not help them, and they did not survive. Conventional cancer treatments are put down in the link due to the number of people that suffer side effects or die anyway, but that is because all these statistics are reported in trials; the good and the bad.

There will always be some success stories, but we have got to put this into context and see what the bigger and overall picture is.

Some chemotherapy is of natural origin, from plants and trees, to marine sponges. Certainly there may be some alternative treatments worth investigating, but first of all those reporting on the success stories must report transparently, and that includes reporting on the number of those who undertook the said treatments and their cancer progressed on them, and they died, to present an accurate and truthful picture, not one that shows only what they want people to see.

Sometimes you see reports such as "what your doctor doesn't want you to know or is afraid to tell you" which are highly unprofessional and damaging for Dr/patient relationships. I know doctors that have been happy for their patients to have certain alternative treatments along side their chemotherapy, such as mistletoe injections. Those patients all died of their disease. And a couple of patients that went to the German clinics, who also died. But this divide and sowing of mistrust by some alternative practitioners is unhelpful. There really doesn't need to be a divide. Many doctors would love for there to be clinically proven less toxic treatments. Indeed one of the deciding factors in choosing which chemotherapy is suitable for a patient is whether the patient is likely tolerate it's toxicity, and if the patient is not young and fit, a less toxic regime is chosen.

Cancer is a complex and aggressive disease. The causes are complex (and many postulated causes such as pollution, mobile waves etc, did not exist at the time of the Prophet :saws:). More often than not it is not a case of it just being cured. It can go into remission, recur, metastasize to lungs, liver, bones etc. Hopefully, nobody will take internet forums such as this one as a basis on which to base their decisions as to what treatment they undertake. We are responsible for doing our best and giving it the best chance we can leaving the rest to Allah. That includes seeking the best and most effective treatments with the data and resources we have available, and making du3a. That is not to suggest that lifestyle and diet changes for the future cannot be undertaken to to try to prevent it's recurrence, or an attempt made to eliminate any causes if they are known, or certain changes cannot be taken alongside. But to suggest that one should either make du3a as their sole treatment, or undertake treatements based on isolated reports, is frightening. We are all responsible as to what we do to ourselves, but moreso what we tell others. There's nothing wrong with doing research to see what else is out there and what people are doing, but it must be presented transparently, warts and all.

[جوري]

^^ Ma shaa Allah.. Baraka Allah feeki.. you've a way of wording it like I never could..

:w:

[piXie]

There will always be some success stories, but we have got to put this into context and see what the bigger and overall picture is.

Insaanah, I agree with your post, but the bigger and overall picture is Big Pharma want Big Bucks and we are the victims to their mass brainwashing.

[جوري]

Insaanah, I agree with your post, but the bigger and overall picture is Big Pharma want Big Bucks and we are the victims to their mass brainwashing.

Please if I may interject.. who makes the alternative treatments? Small nameless companies who also want to cash in on people's miseries banking on a portion of the population to be brainwashed from the opposite pole though are a smaller herd?

:w:

[Snowflake]

[منوة الخيال;[1526906]
One case or two aren't reflective of the population at large, because even with the worst stage IV GBM some 1% will make it past two years.. to suggest that it is because they took some alternative crap is naive at best.

:sl:

Of course there will always be bogus doctors in both old and modern medical practices sis. But we can't put down the principles of holistic medicine, since even Prophetic medicine embraces remedies from such medical systems (Indian and Chinese) which existed before his time. Never did Rasulullah (salallahu alayhi wa sallam) or the Companians take chemical mixtures (pharmacopoeia) even though it was the medicine of the Greeks and Romans. The biggest proof that alternative remedies work is given by Rasulullah himself in the words, "In Black seed is a cure for all disease - except death.) This means we have to believe it cures cancer and all other disease as well. The reason why treatments fail is because disease needs to be recognized and treated by a specific stage, after that medicine may become ineffective. The same applies to conventional medicine as well.Thus alternative medicine is not a failure. It's the lack of research and the correct administration of treatment that has lead people to feel skeptical about it.

My aunt has advanced breast cancer now because she kept taking 'alternate' cures until her cancer metastasized you should see her now with her skin necrotic and cancer in her bone.

Sorry to hear that sis. May Allah have mercy on your Aunt and grant her shif'a kamil. Ameen. The Prophet taught us that if a cure is destined from Allah, then a medicine will work and if it isn't then nothing will bring a cure for the disease.


Walhi I'd fear Allah with what you're putting out there to delude people into thinking that there's hope in something where you can't prove nor have given solid scientific evidence to how it works or some double blind study to prove that it is anything but placebo.
The success rate for a GIST tumor with imatinib mesylate is over 90% over five years or what would you recommend in this case? and do you have data to show similar success using 'alternative'?
[/QUOTE]

Why must everything be proven by science to be believable? In fact if we're to follow solely what has been proven by science then we should ditch drugs altogether because science has proven that drugs are harmful and can cause side effects which are sometimes fatal - not to mention drug induce liver disease, suicide from depression whilst on anti-depressants.. the list is large.


As you fear for us, those of us who embrace the holistic approach to health and well-being fear what conventional medicine is doing to those who opt for such toxic substances to be fed into their bodies. What other diseases are manifesting inside them like timebombs. Why should we choose something that is poisonous itself and not in accordance with Prophetic medicine? The Prophetic said to seek medicine but prohibited causing harm in any way or form. When he was asked about alcohol as a cure, he replied, “It is not a medicine but a disease.” Some people will argue that the Prophet only forbade alcohol as medicine because it intoxicates and may lead to addiction. Then by the same token this reasoning could also be applied to sedatives and addictive drugs - not forgetting that addiction of prescription drugs is remedied with yet more drugs to help the patient deal with withdrawal symptoms.


Should the above hadith be taken only for the prohibition of alcohol as medicine or as a general prohibition for all that is harmful to physical and mental health, when another hadith states:

Hadith Rasulullah s.a.w. from Abu Darda' r.a.
"Verily ALLAH sends down illness and the cure, and had made for every illness a cure.
So seek treatment but do not treat with things that are of haram."
- hadith Abu Daud, Kitab atTibb, hadith #3870

“They ask you what is lawful to them (as food): say: Lawful unto you are (all) things good and pure.” (Qur’an 5:4)




Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There should be neither causing harm nor reciprocating harm.”

Islam has clarified halal and haram and everything that is harmful falls into the catagory of haram. Allah has permitted only which is good and pure. If we still want to support the use of harmful drugs by saying that necessity overrides prohibition, then first we have to define necessity first. In the case of necessity, swine flesh is allowed for survival when there is no other food available. Taking toxic drugs to treat non life-threatening conditions, when there's safe and organic alternatives available, doesn't fall under necessity. It's just an option - one that is absolutely unnecessary.

[جوري]

:sl:

Of course there will always be bogus doctors in both old and modern medical practices sis. But we can't put down the principles of holistic medicine, since even Prophetic medicine embraces remedies from such medical systems (Indian and Chinese) which existed before his time. Never did Rasulullah (salallahu alayhi wa sallam) or the Companians take chemical mixtures (pharmacopoeia) even though it was the medicine of the Greeks and Romans. The biggest proof that alternative remedies work is given by Rasulullah himself in the words, "In Black seed is a cure for all disease - except death.) This means we have to believe it cures cancer and all other disease as well. The reason why treatments fail is because disease needs to be recognized and treated by a specific stage, after that medicine may become ineffective. The same applies to conventional medicine as well.Thus alternative medicine is not a failure. It's the lack of research and the correct administration of treatment that has lead people to feel skeptical about it

Let me ask you this. Did the prophet PBUH offer black seed as a cure to the woman who suffered seizures? And do you think if the modern day medicine we'd to control them was available if he'd deny her such a treatment?

Sorry to hear that sis. May Allah have mercy on your Aunt and grant her shif'a kamil. Ameen. The Prophet taught us that if a cure is destined from Allah, then a medicine will work and if it isn't then nothing will bring a cure for the disease.




Why must everything be proven by science to be believable? In fact if we're to follow solely what has been proven by science then we should ditch drugs altogether because science has proven that drugs are harmful and can cause side effects which are sometimes fatal - not to mention drug induce liver disease, suicide from depression whilst on anti-depressants.. the list is large.

Science has proven that any xenobiotic is harmful. I have already said so before and conceded that even grapefruit juice can be harmful, so what exactly is the point? to forgo that which is tried and true for something magical? There's a science to everything even to hadith, and knowledge is what Allah swt commanded so why should we forgo that?

As you fear for us, those of us who embrace the holistic approach to health and well-being fear what conventional medicine is doing to those who opt for such toxic substances to be fed into their bodies. What other diseases are manifesting inside them like timebombs. Why should we choose something that is poisonous itself and not in accordance with Prophetic medicine? The Prophetic said to seek medicine but prohibited causing harm in any way or form. When he was asked about alcohol as a cure, he replied, “It is not a medicine but a disease.” Some people will argue that the Prophet only forbade alcohol as medicine because it intoxicates and may lead to addiction. Then by the same token this reasoning could also be applied to sedatives and addictive drugs - not forgetting that addiction of prescription drugs is remedied with yet more drugs to help the patient deal with withdrawal symptoms.

Perhaps you haven't come across the ahadith that state necessity overrides prohibition? It is haram to burn with fire, yet that's how the prophet was cauterized when he was bleeding in the battle of uhud. Why do we pick and choose the parts we adhere to and not the rest?

Islam has clarified halal and haram and everything that is harmful falls into the catagory of haram. Allah has permitted only which is good and pure. If we still want to support the use of harmful drugs by saying that necessity overrides prohibition, then first we have to define necessity first. In the case of necessity, swine flesh is allowed for survival when there is no other food available. Taking toxic drugs to treat non life-threatening conditions, when there's safe and organic alternatives available, doesn't fall under necessity. It's just an option - one that is absolutely unnecessary

.

See above and please don't prohibit that which Allah swt made lawful.

:w:

[CosmicPathos]

Taking toxic drugs to treat non life-threatening conditions, when there's safe and organic alternatives available, doesn't fall under necessity. It's just an option - one that is absolutely unnecessary.

Sis, not enough evidence that these things work.

I have tried everything under the sun to treat my acne ... it never went away except those "poisonous" drugs such as accutane ..... and indeed what a poison. I was unlucky. But accutane has been a "miracle drug" for couple of people I personally know. They took it in way more dosage than I did ... they just had good qadr.

[Snowflake]

[منوة الخيال;1527333] Let me ask you this. Did the prophet PBUH offer black seed as a cure to the woman who suffered seizures? And do you think if the modern day medicine we'd to control them was available if he'd deny her such a treatment?

No -- but he (salallahu alayhi wa sallam) never sent her to Greece to get compound medicine either - but told her to have patience. I wouldn't be so confident either that the Prophet would've allowed her modern medication due to the harmful side effects of drugs when epilepsy is curable by many alternative methods. Just reading those little leaflets in the box are enough to give a person palpitations.

Science has proven that any xenobiotic is harmful. I have already said so before and conceded that even grapefruit juice can be harmful, so what exactly is the point? to forgo that which is tried and true for something magical? There's a science to everything even to hadith, and knowledge is what Allah swt commanded so why should we forgo that?

That grapefruit juice, even orange juice, or anything else for that matter can be harmful, is exactly what a holistic practitioner would know as well as all of which foods/substances are harmful in a particular disease and which promote healing. This is what you have to understand, that just because alternative medicine uses organic substances, it doesn't advocate the use of all things for all people. If you read the medicine of the Prophet from cover to cover you'll gain a better understand of how the body heals itself and how alternative remedies support the body's natural healing mechanism without harming it. Like you said there's a science to everything.

Perhaps you haven't come across the ahadith that state necessity overrides prohibition? It is haram to burn with fire, yet that's how the prophet was cauterized when he was bleeding in the battle of uhud. Why do we pick and choose the parts we adhere to and not the rest?

I know the said hadith, but shariah defines necessity as a last resort when no other option is available. The Prophet (PBUH) was cauterized out of necessity as the alternative was *I don't wish to say something like that about Rasulullah (PBUH)*. But most illnesses don't lead to death. I think you're propagating necessity into that which isn't and can be treated without modern medicine. So it isn't necessary to poison oneself while there's safe alternatives available. Forgive me if I'm wrong but it feels that you disagree with that and advocate modern medicine for all things while forsaking any thing that isn't proven by science.

See above and please don't prohibit that which Allah swt made lawful.

I'm sorry but how is not advocating harmful drugs prohibiting the lawful? Please try to understand and separate the two facts that necessity means as a last resort and in a genuine case of necessity, I wouldn't object to modern med (as you can see from my vote). But islam prohibits harm. Saying that is not prohibiting anything that Allah made permissible.


:wa:

[جوري]

No -- but he (salallahu alayhi wa sallam) never sent her to Greece to get compound medicine either - but told her to have patience. I wouldn't be so confident either that the Prophet would've allowed her modern medication due to the harmful side effects of drugs when epilepsy is curable by many alternative methods. Just reading those little leaflets in the box are enough to give a person palpitations.

Greece wasn't the only center for medicine and Arabs used many substances themselves. It was said that even Khalid ibn ilwaleed sat in alcohol baths for his wounds from war. I wouldn't speak of what the prophet would have done, since you already alleged that black seed is a cure for all and the prophet PBUH didn't offer her that as a cure for all. Yet he PBUH said for every ailment there's a cure. Now I am curious what 'Natural' treatment there's for epilepsy? Do you know what triggers and epileptic seizure? Do you know the pathophsiology of a seizure? Any 'Natural' cure will have to address the rapid firing of nerves, I am deeply deeply curious at what that natural alternative is that offers a cure. Because I am looking to get my Nobel and make some money.

That grapefruit juice, even orange juice, or anything else for that matter can be harmful, is exactly what a holistic practitioner would know as well as all of which foods/substances are harmful in a particular disease and which promote healing. This is what you have to understand, that just because alternative medicine uses organic substances, it doesn't advocate the use of all things for all people. If you read the medicine of the Prophet from cover to cover you'll gain a better understand of how the body heals itself and how alternative remedies support the body's natural healing mechanism without harming it. Like you said there's a science to everything.

supplements and nutrition aren't a cure.

I know the said hadith, but shariah defines necessity as a last resort when no other option is available. The Prophet (PBUH) was cauterized out of necessity as the alternative was *I don't wish to say something like that about Rasulullah (PBUH)*. But most illnesses don't lead to death. I think you're propagating necessity into that which isn't and can be treated without modern medicine. So it isn't necessary to poison oneself while there's safe alternatives available. Forgive me if I'm wrong but it feels that you disagree with that and advocate modern medicine for all things while forsaking any thing that isn't proven by science.

You simply don't know about most illnesses and that's what the problem is. I don't know what natural cure you have for crigler najjar or zollinger-ellison or tay sachs dz. or hidradenitis suppurativa the diseases are endless .. just because you've not heard of them nor were they manifest centuries ago does it mean they don't exist. A few of the sahabis died of the plague like Moath ibn Jabal. We have a cure for the plague now should we simply forgo because you think that it is haram? What branch of Islam is that which prohibits seeking treatment as this is the first time I have come across this. You think everything is the flu or a cold or a gall bladder attack, then why do people literally waste a life time studying and specilizing for even in every displine are such finite things that it is an art form all its own.

I'm sorry but how is not advocating harmful drugs prohibiting the lawful? Please try to understand and separate the two facts that necessity means as a last resort and in a genuine case of necessity, I wouldn't object to modern med (as you can see from my vote). But islam prohibits harm. Saying that is not prohibiting anything that Allah made permissible.

Sometimes we've to use our brains on what is lawful and what isn't. As I said the things I mentioned above are a very miniscule amount of the gamut of diseases that exist out there that need either aggressive treatment or even genetic, stem cell treatment and nothing is without harm even so-called 'Natural' meds which by the way alot of conventional medications we'e are synthesized from.
Yes I think if we've the machinery to figure out just how contaminated a well is then there's no need at guess work of following an ijtihad of a scholar that tells me take out 15 pails to decontaminate.
I have no clue what you mean by alternative medicine and I am still waiting for that break through but the unfortunate reality is, it alot of talk and no results. By the time people figure it out they're already knocking on death's door.
I hope you realize that you're my sister and I love but I'll fulfill my duty before God first when I see something that I truly believe isn't compatible with Islam or common sense..
:w:

[Snowflake]

Sis, not enough evidence that these things work.

I have tried everything under the sun to treat my acne ... it never went away except those "poisonous" drugs such as accutane ..... and indeed what a poison. I was unlucky. But accutane has been a "miracle drug" for couple of people I personally know. They took it in way more dosage than I did ... they just had good qadr.

Bro, you say you tried everything under the sun but does that include a consultation with a qualified holistic practitioner, or just remedies recommended by others. Holistic med is unique in that no one treatment can be prescribed for two people with the same symptoms. If you go to a doctor with a headache, you'll get the same pills as the next person with the headache even though the cause of headache might be different. A holistic practitioner will try to determine and address the cause. Remember symptoms themselves aren't a disease but a warning bell as well as the bodies attempts to heal itself - a natural mechanism which holistic med supports, boosts and brings healing. Modern med on the other hand tries to suppress the symptoms while all the time the disease can be advancing. How many people have gone to the doctors, only to be given one medication after another until finally nothing seems to work and then tests finally reveal they were seriously ill. :\

I know about accutane. I'm sorry it harmed you. May Allah protect you and reverse the damage it caused. Ameen. I found forums full of people who had eye problems after taking occutane. Al hamdulillah, it's now been withdrawn.

[جوري]

If you go to a doctor with a headache, you'll get the same pills as the next person with the headache even though the cause of headache might be different..

Sister, sob7an Allah, how could you make such a blanket statement like that?
firstly the causes of headaches can be anything from a TIA to TTP to ITP, to temporal arteritis a GBM to a cluster headache.. even headaches themselves which are just plain headaches, like cluster, migraine, tension and not secondary to something else receive different treatments. You're under the impression that people won't give 'Natural' a chance for whatever reasons you've created in your mind, yet come in with such unseasoned and completely untrue aruments against conventional medicine, so how can you expect anyone to take what is written her seriousely? How would a 'hollistic doctor' distinguish the difference even between an ITP and TTP and especially when you have seconds to save a patient's life.. can he or she even assess the gravity of a headache when anything from blindness to death can be associated with it?

la 7wala wla qiwta illa billah

[Snowflake]

Anyway sis منوة الخيال, I've wasted enough time on these threads and I am not used to writing so much as I'm slow and it takes me ages to write one post. It doesn't matter if we don't agree, what matters is that we don't let it affect our love and sincerity for each other. I generally hate debates/arguments which go on and on as I feel the shaytaan gets involved and they aren't of any real use to our deen dunya and akhirah anyway. Please forgive me if I've offended you in anyway, and may Allah forgive me too. Ameen. :)

[Snowflake]

Sister, sob7an Allah, how could you make such a blanket statement like that?
firstly the causes of headaches can be anything from a TIA to TTP to ITP, to temporal arteritis a GBM to a cluster headache.. even headaches themselves which are just plain headaches, like cluster, migraine, tension and not secondary to something else receive different treatments. You're under the impression that people won't give 'Natural' a chance for whatever reasons you've created in your mind, yet come in with such unseasoned and completely untrue aruments against conventional medicine, so how can you expect anyone to take what is written her seriousely? How would a 'hollistic doctor' distinguish the difference even between an ITP and TTP and especially when you have seconds to save a patient's life.. can he or she even assess the gravity of a headache when anything from blindness to death can be associated with it?

la 7wala wla qiwta illa billah

I'm sorry I offended you sis. I wanted out of this thread but you seemed so offended I had to reply. It may be different where you are. But here we get paracetamol as the standard headache pill. After that it's Ibuprofen and co-codamol. Hope you understand why I said what I did. I didn't meant to offend. I'm sorry. I was just speaking from what been seeing happening all my life and to others I know.

[CosmicPathos]

I was meant to get eye issues, God gave them via accutane. My friends took more dosage of accutane, he never got eye issues.

It is just qadr, we cant do anything about it.

[جوري]

Anyway sis منوة الخيال, I've wasted enough time on these threads and I am not used to writing so much as I'm slow and it takes me ages to write one post. It doesn't matter if we don't agree, what matters is that we don't let it affect our love and sincerity for each other. I generally hate debates/arguments which go on and on as I feel the shaytaan gets involved and they aren't of any real use to our deen dunya and akhirah anyway. Please forgive me if I've offended you in anyway, and may Allah forgive me too. Ameen. :)

How can a topic affect our kinship? I was just discussing with another sis how I am hopeful that I didn't hurt your feelings in anyway.. You just have to understand that I am deeply saddened and it isn't something I can help... I feel disappointed and sad with many of the things that transpired today on the forum.. But if one sees something they perceive to be wrong they must change it.. and it isn't something that I felt could remain in my heart..

I hope you have a great evening in shaa Allah.. if you look above at my choice, you'd see that I chose that I don't know because I'd assess it. Obviously I wouldn't make the same decision for a papillary vs anaplastic thyroid cancer. Both of the same organ one with a 95% cure rate and the other with a very poor prognosis. It is a decision not to be made lightly and that's all I am saying. I have seen people drop around me like flies. My dad's friend just died two days ago. He had stomach cancer. He forgo treatment and opted for palliative care. He did have to have surgery to improve quality of life.. even with all the advanced we have in science we win some and we lose some but that is just a balance and the story of life.. we should go at life fighting hard when it calls for a fight..

:w:

[CosmicPathos]

we should go at life fighting hard when it calls for a fight..

I think it seems to us that way when we are healthy. When we are in the battered position when life is calling us to fight, we might not have the strong feelings or the desire to fight back. I think ppl should die in whatever way they want to, provided they are capable. If forgoing treatment is what they want after all options have been explained to them, then so be it.

[جوري]

I think it seems to us that way when we are healthy. When we are in the battered position when life is calling us to fight, we might not have the strong feelings or the desire to fight back. I think ppl should die in whatever way they want to, provided they are capable. If forgoing treatment is what they want after all options have been explained to them, then so be it.

autonomy is the principal & ethics upon which medicine stands and it is one of the things that make it appealing plus its changing nature and I am by nature a lover of science. I can understand not wanting to fight but we're in this life for the fight whether we like it or not until we breathe our last.. Health is one of those things Allah swt will ask us about as it is indeed the greatest gift... Everything is better appreciated by the stark contrast of not having it from my personal experience.. it humbles the soul & with any luck draws it closer to its lord..

:w:

[piXie]

:salamext:

This thread was opened for a general discussion about cancer treatments, and especially to raise awareness about treatments Big Pharma are trying to shut down and prevent other people from knowing.

Many of us have lost our dear ones to cancer and other illnesses, and the statistics are rising every day, despite advances in modern science. This should make us more so serious about questioning the current mainstream approaches to illnesses, and investigate other possible treatments with an open mind, instead of rigidly sticking to what we have been trained and taught to believe via medical schools heavily influenced by the financial interests of drug industries.

I am sorry if anyone is offended by these statements, but it is the truth we need to wake up to.

The majority of people, especially those in authority and power only care about making money and the few sincere doctors who are aware and have tried to bring the truth out are labelled quacks and locked away. It is the same with those who try to raise awareness about one God, they are labelled terrorists and also locked away.

The governments are allowing our environments and foods to become more contaminated and toxic. They are interfering in the natural creation of Allaah and exposing the population to more and more carcinogens and chemicals. The more ‘advanced’ country you live in, the more worse it gets and the more diseases people are coming down with.

Instead of doing something about all these pollutants and health hazards, they are introducing more and more drugs into the market as the only solution to make people better, resulting in people becoming more and more dependent upon drugs to sustain themselves in the current climate. Even though there is health awareness, most people are unaware of proper nutrition and the role it plays in preventing and treating disease.

Natural medicines are under attack and accused of being ‘unscientific’ – by the same people who say belief in God is also unscientific.

Tell me, if a fish is ill because of contaminated and polluted water, what is unscientific about cleaning the water? What is unscientific about removing the harm? That is all what naturopathic doctors are trying to raise awareness about. Get to the root cause, remove the harm first, and stop the wrong that the person is doing in their diet, lifestyle and environment. If we do not do this, it does not matter what else we do or what drug or herbs or supplement we give – it will be of little help.

It would be like trying to shovel the snow away while it is still snowing – we would fail and this is what is happening in our battles against cancer and other diseases.

Until we do not get to the root cause and remove the harm first, we will be forced to control the symptoms and disease with drugs alone and carry on being dependent upon them for the rest of our lives.

We are not opposed to doctors – it’s not their fault – many of them are sincere, but uninformed of how naturopathic medicine works.

People don’t have to agree with me here, but no one has the right to label naturopathic doctors as quacks and shut them up because they use a different approach which is working well enough for the drug industries to feel threatened by. Big Pharma are the ones dividing and sowing mistrust. They are the ones damaging doctor/patient relationships.

And if you are waiting for the FDA to declare the efficacy and safety of such treatments, then it’s like waiting for the American Government to declare Dr. Aafia Siddique’s innocence. Wake up people, THEY WILL NOT DO IT. We are fighting a war here – between truth and lies.

[Rhubarb Tart]

^^^^I want proof that Natural medicines help cancer patients. By proof I want research conducted to indicate such treatment are better or equal to conventional treatment. Surely those that support natural medicine have conducted research?

Healthy lifestyle is something doctors and most health profession promote all the time! Most health services have Dieticians that specifically looks that the food patient eats and what changes they can make to facilitate their treatment and well being!

[Rhubarb Tart]

As for the toxic in our food, DOCTORS have been complaining about that before it became a problem. And the leading campaigners against obesity and food industry are doctors. And research that highlights the harmful effects of our foods are carried out by the same medical researchers that support and gathered evidence for conventional treatment.

The Men Who Made Us Fat Part One
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE-H__aIEFE

The Men Who Made Us Fat Part Two
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4-Xz...feature=relmfu

The Men Who Made Us Fat Part three
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UaUQ...feature=relmfu

The Men Who Made Us Fat Part four
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0pty...feature=relmfu

[Insaanah]

:sl:

May I ask in this thread, sister منوة الخيال and brother Cosmic Pathos excluded, how many here are healthcare professionals or work with people with cancer on a daily basis, have studied it's molecular pathways and patterns of progession, have contact with pharma on a regular basis, and are fans of tibb nabawi and treatment of disease with diet and lifestyle changes where possible? It's interesting to know where people are coming from.

This should make us more so serious about questioning the current mainstream approaches to illnesses, and investigate other possible treatments with an open mind, instead of rigidly sticking to what we have been trained and taught to believe via medical schools heavily influenced by the financial interests of drug industries.

Only saw this now. Are you in med school or have you qualified now?

The majority of people, especially those in authority and power only care about making money and the few sincere doctors who are aware and have tried to bring the truth out are labelled quacks and locked away.

It is strange that some alternative medicine practitioners can only bring the success stories to the public's attention, and do not publish full statistics. There may be 20 success stories from one clinic, but for each of those, how many died? It may be the case that for each success, 19 people die. Yet nobody will ever know this. It is interesting how they are portrayed as these poor honest doctors in a big ugly game, but where is the openness and honesty from them? If we're going to preach about making people aware of the other options so that they can make informed choices, where is the rest of the information on the success (or lack thereof) of the approach they are advocating? It is withheld (in the link at least). That is not an informed choice. Indeed by some it could be construed as misleading or deception. In clinical trials, the good the bad and the downright ugly are all reported. Eg hopes are sometimes high for a certain drug, then it undergoes a trial, and it turns out that it was detrimental compared to the control group. It all gets reported.

It is the same with those who try to raise awareness about one God, they are labelled terrorists and also locked away.

How can you compare people who promote alternative medicine with those that raise awareness about Allah? This is an awful comparison(not that it can be called one) to make and simply untrue. We shouldn't let our enthusiasm for something make us make false statements like that. Do you know what happens to people labelled terrorist? Locked away in solitary confinement, mental and physical torture, sleep deprivation, never seeing their relatives again in some cases, and females like Aafia Siddiqui being raped on an almost daily basis? How can you compare that to an alternative medicine practitioner? This is demeaning and insulting to our brothers and sisters who are unjustly locked away all over the world.

Even though there is health awareness, most people are unaware of proper nutrition and the role it plays in preventing and treating disease.

Nobody is against this or saying it shouldn't be done. Indeed we had a TV series here called The Food Hospital, where alternative medicine practioners in conjunction with doctors treated patients together, not against each other as is being thrown around here, no conspiracy theories in sight. For patients on medicines, it was not advocated that they suddenly stop and use the alternative medicine route alone. Once they gained some in their condition, some were gradually able to reduce/stop their meds, and continue with diet and lifetyle changes. For those not already on meds and with certain conditions, diet and lifestyle changes were used alone. It shouldn't be about pitting one against the other, with conspiracy theories and accusations thrown around, but about working together for the betterment of the patient. I know alternative medicine practitioners who would never advocate to cancer patients if asked, to go the alternative route alone, as well as medical doctors who now specialise and practice solely in alternative medicine, but work in partnership with oncologists.

Natural medicines are under attack and accused of being ‘unscientific’ – by the same people who say belief in God is also unscientific.

Many that work in pharma are Muslims, so presumably they would be included amongst those who you say, say that belief in God is unscientific? I would seriously question how far your "enthusiasm" for this will go in making false analogies and statements about your fellow Muslims.

People don’t have to agree with me here, but no one has the right to label naturopathic doctors as quacks and shut them up because they use a different approach which is working well enough for the drug industries to feel threatened by. Big Pharma are the ones dividing and sowing mistrust. They are the ones damaging doctor/patient relationships.

I am utterly bewildered as to where these statements are coming from.

We are fighting a war here – between truth and lies.

I see you are. Good luck with your war, your "truth" against everybody elses "lies", while most try to work together wherever possible. The things that is of most detriment to the patient at the end of the day, is this so-called "war" by those who want it to be one. Nobody's saying don't research alternative/complementary therapies, even doctors use diet and lifestyle for certan conditions, after which meds get started alongside if that does not work on it's own. Use them wherever possible, alongside conventional treatments, having checked they will not affect each other, and on their own once the evidence is transparent and solid.

:wa:

[Snowflake]

How can a topic affect our kinship? I was just discussing with another sis how I am hopeful that I didn't hurt your feelings in anyway.. You just have to understand that I am deeply saddened and it isn't something I can help... I feel disappointed and sad with many of the things that transpired today on the forum.. But if one sees something they perceive to be wrong they must change it.. and it isn't something that I felt could remain in my heart..

I hope you have a great evening in shaa Allah..

:w:

:sl: Ukhti, Well I chicken away from discussions in which I fear might lead to any type of negative feelings at all. We are all only human after all, and recently there's been so much harshness on the forum that it's upset me too. We all have different experiences and knowledge which we base our opinions on, and others don't have to agree and I respect that.

And no I had a wretched second weekend from lack of sleep due to partying down the road. Hence being online so many hours. But thank you for hoping for me anyway :)

[White Rose]

I'm sorry I offended you sis. I wanted out of this thread but you seemed so offended I had to reply. It may be different where you are. But here we get paracetamol as the standard headache pill. After that it's Ibuprofen and co-codamol. Hope you understand why I said what I did. I didn't meant to offend. I'm sorry. I was just speaking from what been seeing happening all my life and to others I know.

Sis, I understand what you are saying. I am not against all doctors but where I live, it seems like I am the one telling the doctor how to cure me. This has not happened once but many times which is why I feel like its better to do the research by myself including the ways to cure as well. Plus I feel like doctors jump from one medicine to another which can have bad side effects.
Its very difficult to describe what I think about medicines vs traditional methods. And I also don't want to offend anyone on this board as to what I think so I will leave it at that.

[piXie]

I am utterly bewildered as to where these statements are coming from.

ukhtee, you need to watch the full documentary about the forbidden cancer cures and have some background knowledge about naturopathic medicine in order to understand where I am coming from.

Please bear with me until my exams finish inshaAllaah. Jazak Allaah Khayr for your patience.

:wasalamex

[piXie]

What was the combination of herbs that the lady in the video used to cure it??

It's in the cancer report.

http://healthwyze.org/index.php/comp...-released.html

As for the toxic in our food, DOCTORS have been complaining about that before it became a problem. And the leading campaigners against obesity and food industry are doctors.

Im not against doctors ukhtee. The ones who are successfully treating cancer without orthodox methods are also doctors.

I've seen this documentary, Jazak Allaah Khayr for posting it here. This is exactly what we are trying to raise awareness about. Powerful Industries, concerned more about their dollars than about the health of the nation. Who is allowing them?

When Dr John Yudkin spoke against the massive sugar industry highlighting the impact sugar was having on the health of the population, the sugar industry lobbied against him. His work was "discredited" and he was accused of not having enough "data". Similar to what the Drug Industries are doing. But, with the drug industry playing the same game, it's even more dangerous because that is considered "MEDICINE".

At the end of the day it all comes down to one thing: Money

they didn't have the diseases that we have now then to use the things you suggest then for now.

Do you mean that the Prophetic Medicine cannot be used for the diseases we have today or do you mean that it can be used today but only for particular diseases or ailments? If so, which ailments do you believe can be cured from the medicines mentioned by the Prophet :arabic5: ?


Please clarify.

[piXie]

Worth further research:

Dr. Johanna Budwig. She left us in 2003, at the ripe age of 95, but she looked like she was in her 70's. She was nominated six times for the Nobel Prize for medicine. Did we mention that she cured cancer ― not treated ― but cured it in "terminally ill" patients; even patients which the establishment had surrendered to fate, claimed were "untreatable", and gave a death sentence to? We're not talking about specific or rare types of cancer either. She cured whatever type of cancer that was thrown at her, and she did it relatively quickly, cheaply, easily, and permanently; using non-toxic ingredients, which were without any side-effects whatsoever. Her medicine actually made her patients stronger, and her cure rate was over 90%, including the worst "terminal" cases. You read that right; we did indeed say that her permanent cure rate was over 90%. Did we mention no side-effects? Dr. Bugwig's successes greatly contrast the facts that the life-long cure rate from standard chemotherapy is less than 4% for most types of cancer, and that chemotherapy is known to cause future cancers. We have not mentioned the most incredible aspect that is still being suppressed by the lucrative cancer industry: Dr. Budwig's secret weapons against cancer were common cottage cheese and flax seed oil. She quickly became enemy #1 to the pharmaceutical and nuclear industries. They did not like the prospect of people having the choice between their debilitating and bankrupting treatments, or simply opening their refrigerator for a cure. They have been so effective at suppressing her Noble Prize worthy work, that for many of our readers, this will be their first instance of learning of the good doctor, or her famous Budwig Diet. Her bombshell findings were first published in the early 1950's. Anyone want to make a bet as to when major networks like Fox News and ABC News are going to cover this story? We're betting never. They're team players.

Cancer is essentially a modern man-made disease. There is evidence of it existing in ancient history, but cancer was extremely rare in ancient history, except in cities with cases of mass poisoning (again a man-made disease). Now, cancer is expected to strike one person out of every three, and this rate is rising rapidly.

Toxins, radiation, and acidosis are the unholy trinity of cancer. The combined damage from toxins, radiation, malnutrition (often caused by pharmaceuticals), and illness leads to acidosis, which is the final stage of this misunderstood condition. When a person's body chemistry becomes acidic from the aforementioned factors, then his blood's ability to retain and carry oxygen is severely diminished. Healthy individuals have a blood oxygen level of between 98 and 100 as measured by a pulse oximeter, but cancer patients routinely show around 60. Oxygen is replaced in a cancer patient's blood with wastes such as carbon dioxide. The oxygen starvation caused by acidosis leads to the formation of tumors as cells must mutate to derive their energy from a fermentation process. Normal cells obtain energy from oxygen, but oxygen-starved cells must mutate to using a type of direct sugar fermentation, which is really the body's self defense. Of course, this is not as "clean" as oxygen-based energy, and the waste products of fermentation build in the tissues causing even higher toxicity. Eventually the entire immune system is debilitated by the process of cleaning these wastes, so that it can no longer cope with the removal of unhealthy cells. This allows the cancer cells to multiply and spread unchecked to create the symptom of tumors, which is in the latter stages of this process.

All the above was proved by Dr. Otto Warburg, and he won the Nobel Prize for it in 1931. Funny you've never heard about it, huh? Are you still walking for the cure? Don't worry, we felt horribly suckered when we learned too. Meanwhile, the industry is still murdering people for profit, while "searching for the cure".

Most cancer cures (not treatments) involve adjusting the body's pH beyond neutral, and into an alkaline state. In the alkaline state, human blood is rich in oxygen, and this same oxygen is poisonous to all mutated cancer (fermenting) cells. Oxygen is, of course, harmless to healthy cells ― and we're not going into that whole free radical thing here ― except to say that oxygen is never an issue with a healthy (anti-cancer) diet. Whilst naturally mocked by the industry, the generalized anti-cancer alkalizing diets are effective, and certainly merit further reading.

http://healthwyze.org/index.php/the-...ge-cheese.html

Dr Otto Warburg methods involved detailed studies on the assimilation of carbon dioxide in plants, the metabolism of tumors, and the chemical constituent of the oxygen transferring respiratory ferment. Read more about his biography here:

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_priz...rburg-bio.html

[جوري]

Do you mean that the Prophetic Medicine cannot be used for the diseases we have today or do you mean that it can be used today but only for particular diseases or ailments? If so, which ailments do you believe can be cured from the medicines mentioned by the Prophet ?


Please clarify.

It depends on what you mean by prophetic medicine.
I don't see anything that should preclude from using honey or black seed but not as the sole mean of treatment - as an adjuvant sure.. there's no harm in that as sole treatment then no, unless we're speaking of palliative care.
The prophet PBUH didn't offer black seed & honey as a curative treatment for the lady who had seizures when she asked him to supplicate for her- did he?
We will be asked of our health (as of one of the gift Allah swt bestowed upon us) on the day of recompense.. I'd really think long & hard of forgoing tried & true medicine!

:w:

[جوري]

On a Separate note, I'd like to add that one should think of the religion of Islam when asking people to use either weapons from millenniums ago, or medicine that old as well.
Consider what a radically post modern religion Islam is and how that explained its original appeal and its current popularity.
We're not speaking of the fundamentals of worship that is a done deal. We're speaking of everyday life. Everyday medicine everyday warfare. The prophet PBUH used to send troops out to see what the Romans are using and to try to make similar or better equipments. I have actually written about that in another unrelated thread. Don't go meeting a monster sized enemy whether cancer or Zionists with pea sized weapons!
Furthermore, if we don't like what pharm companies are doing why don't we make our own? It has actually been done such as with the Aspirin factory in Sudan that the U.S bombed.. they want us sick and backwards and we're basically enabling them.. and that's terrible & really something to think about!

:w:

[~Zaria~]

Worth further research:

Did we mention that she cured cancer ― not treated ― but cured it in "terminally ill" patients; even patients which the establishment had surrendered to fate, claimed were "untreatable", and gave a death sentence to? We're not talking about specific or rare types of cancer either. She cured whatever type of cancer that was thrown at her, and she did it relatively quickly, cheaply, easily, and permanently; using non-toxic ingredients, which were without any side-effects whatsoever. Her medicine actually made her patients stronger, and her cure rate was over 90%, including the worst "terminal" cases. You read that right; we did indeed say that her permanent cure rate was over 90%. Did we mention no side-effects?

Assalamu-alaikum,

Would you care to provide us with just some evidence for the above claims?


We are looking for:
- Some explanation for the mechanism of action of these proposed cures.
- Data from clinical trials that show clear benefit, improved survival and histological 'cure' from the cancer.

Ok.....for now we will even entertain an un-randomised, un-published, half-completed study to support these claims.......anything at all - apart from patient testimonials, web-site/ YT video promotions.

The thousands who read this thread deserve at least this......before you decide to promote any type of therapy, without taking due consideration to the dangers of spreading un-evidenced, unproven half-truths to everyone.

For now, lets quickly look at Dr Budwigs work:

Budwig protocol

The Budwig protocol (or Budwig diet) is an anti-cancer diet developed by Budwig in 1952. The diet is rich in flaxseed oil, mixed with cottage cheese and milk, and meals high in fruits, vegetables, and fiber. The diet also avoided sugar, animal fats, salad oil, meats, butter, and especially margarine.

She claimed that within 3 months, some patients on this diet had smaller tumors, some had no tumors left, and all felt better.

Evidence for the effectiveness of the Budwig diet is limited as most research has only been done on cell culture studies and experiments on rats and mice with inconsistent results.

Such studies suggest that flaxseed may possibly be beneficial for cancers in mice.

Some small studies have been done in humans which suggest flaxseed may be beneficial in reducing the risk of prostate cancer but more studies would be necessary to confirm any effects.

There is no reliable evidence available for the effectiveness of the full Budwig protocol.


Claimed Nobel Prize nomination

Proponents of the Budwig protocol often claim that she was nominated for a Nobel Prize either six^[4] or seven times.^[5]

However, the names of the nominees are never publicly announced, and neither are they told that they have been considered for the Prize. All nomination records for a prize are sealed for 50 years from the awarding of that prize.^[6][7] As there are no limits on nominations—any university professor in the world may nominate as many people as he or she chooses—thousands of people are nominated for these awards each year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johanna_Budwig

Unless we are discussing the cure for rat/ mice cancers.......Insha Allah, that puts to rest Dr Budwig and her diet.



:wa:

[جوري]

I am not going t touch upon that whole funny bit about alkaline or acidic body state as in both aren't compatible with life, be that as it may I'll comment on the below bit:

Cancer is essentially a modern man-made disease. There is evidence of it existing in ancient history, but cancer was extremely rare in ancient history, except in cities with cases of mass poisoning (again a man-made disease). Now, cancer is expected to strike one person out of every three, and this rate is rising rapidly.

Cancer has always existed and we have many documented cases that go back to ancient Egypt. The only reason you see it now with more abundance is that the life expectancy today isn't what it was centuries upon centuries ago and that's largely due to the will of Allah through the instrument of modern medicine. True that new cancers exist today but then again how do you expect new and modern diseases with medicines from back then? Cancer is simply a disease of the aged if you live long enough your cells will get tired of break down, growth and repair and apoptosis .. anything can go wrong at any moment. It isn't inconceivable that you as a human being can make a mistake in the work you do daily even if you do the same thing everyday? We're meant to die and this is one of the ways that happens.. cells AGE there's no fountain of youth!
Cancer isn't normally something infectious and by that I mean it causes a change in the very DNA so the body doesn't recognize it as foreign (I have already spoken of this on the previous page) sometimes certain infectious diseases for instance Hepatitis B or C can transform to something cancerous but what it is, a cells of the body translating and transcribing and repairing wrong.
Until I see the mechanism of action of these so-called natural treatments and how they specifically target cancer I am unconvinced of otherwise mere words written here!

:w:

[piXie]

:wasalamex

Zaria, I am not posting random claims by lay people who do not have any background in science or oncology. These are medical trained doctors carrying out these alternative treatments.

You will not accept websites, patient testimonials, words of medical doctors, or factual documentaries as evidence, but you will accept Wikipedia as evidence to put Dr Budwig and her diet to rest?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johanna_Budwig

"The prime cause of cancer is the replacement of the normal oxygen respiration of body cells by an anaerobic cell respiration." - Otto Warburg (twice Nobel Laureate)

Will we dismiss Dr. Otto Warburg and his research too?

Dr. Johanna Budwig was born in Germany and she devoted her life to cancer research and was often referred to as the top cancer research scientist in Europe. She was also a biochemist and physicist who was a leading authority on fats, oils and nutrition. For her research and practice, Johanna was nominated for seven Nobel Prizes, but was kept from receiving any of them by the German pharmaceutical and medical industries that subjected her to endless vilification and harassment and blocked the publication of her writings and clinical studies.

I am the first one to point out what's wrong with this country. But Medicine in the U.S is bar none!

you accept there is alot wrong with this counrty, from political interests, propaganda, bias reporting and lies etc but you dont accept this could be happening in the medical fields. Medicine in the U.S bar none, because that is regulated by organisations such as the FDA who are known for their sincerity and high moral standards? :ermm:

That is

naive at best.

-----------------------

Flaxseed Oil and Tumours:
After original and exhaustive research which included years of clinical trials, Dr. Budwig proved beyond doubt that unheated and unprocessed flaxseed oil could provide the body with the essential fatty acids that would replenish the loss of critically needed phosphatides and lipoproteins missing from the diets of many people of her time and are missing to an even greater degree in the diets of people today.
Through blood analysis of many cancer patients, Johanna determined that cancer patients were always grossly deficient in these critical nutrients. Blood samples from all patients with later stage cancer revealed a greenish yellow substance in place of normal, healthy red oxygen carrying hemoglobin indicating an inability of the blood to transport oxygen to the cells. After she treated them for a few months with daily doses of flaxseed oil, their cancer tumours gradually receded and the unhealthy blood color was replaced by healthy red blood cells. This change in blood color signaled the rise of phosphatide and lipoprotein levels.

Water Soluble Fats:
Dr. Budwig's discovery of how to make the fats water soluble was her crowning moment. She realised that fats become water soluble and able to pass through the cell membrane only when they are bound to a protein such as that in cottage cheese to form a lipoprotein.

Damaging Fats:
She was adamantly against the use of hydrogenated, partially hydrogenated, and polyunsaturated fats. She saw the chemical processing of these fats as damaging to every organ in the body. The heart rejects these fats and they end up as inorganic fatty deposits on the heart muscle, blocking circulation, damaging heart action, inhibiting cell renewal and disrupting the normal flow of blood and lymph fluids.
Budwig Diet Success:
Johanna's patients were those so terminally ill that traditional medical practitioners had given up on them, with many having been given only days or hours to live. She treated these patients with a simple diet based on a combination of flax oil and quark, the European version of cottage cheese. Her published research is full of testimonials from people around the world who were diagnosed with terminal cancer and were completely cured by the Budwig diet. The benefits of Johanna's research extend to the healing of anyone with any of the major debilitating diseases. There are thousands of documented cases of recovery from cancer using the `Budwig Protocol`.

Dr. Johanna Budwig in `Flax Oil as a True Aid ...`
"What she (Dr. Johanna Budwig) has demonstrated to my initial disbelief, but lately to my complete satisfaction in my practice is: CANCER IS EASILY CURABLE, the treatment is dietary / lifestyle, the response is immediate; the cancer cell is weak and vulnerable; the precise biochemical breakdown point was identified by her in 1951 and is specifically correctable, in vitro (test-tube) as well as in vivo (real)..."
Dr. Dan C. Roehm M.D. FACP, oncologist & former cardiologist, in "Townsend Letter for Doctors", July 1990

"Of all the nutritional theories that I have investigated, Dr. Johanna Budwig's is definitely number one ... Nowhere in the world have I found not even remotely such fantastic cases as with Dr. Budwig. It's phenomenal."
Lothar Hirneise, eminent German cancer researcher and author of `Chemotherapy Heals Cancer and The Earth Is Flat`

"Over 50% of Dr. Budwig's patients were doctors or relatives of doctors who knew why in such a serious disease they would rely on the experiences of this brilliant physicist, chemist and pharmacologist rather than follow the prevailing opinion which says that tumors must be destroyed through chemotherapy and radiation."

http://www.healthandhealing.revoluti...ealing_002.htm

A practitioner I know works closely with cancer patients. They have to send their cancer patients out of the country for treatments because they are illegal in the country they are in (UK and America). They told me about B17.

B17 (Laetrile)
The names, professional standings, medical achievements, and clinical findings of some of the more prominent doctors who endorse Laetrile; the beneficial side-effects produced by its use; a suggested anti-cancer diet; and a brief description of vitamin B15.

“Laetrile is go*****ed quackery!” Such was the pronouncement of Helene Brown, president of the American Cancer Society of California. (1) As early as 1974, there were at least twenty-six published papers written by well-known physicians who had used Laetrile in the treatment of their own patients and who have concluded (2) that Laetrile is both safe and effective in the treatment of cancer. In addition, there are the voluminous private records of physi-cians who have used it clinically but have never published their findings except in letters to their colleagues or in public lectures or interviews. The American Cancer Society and other spokesmen. for orthodox medicine would have us believe that only quacks and crackpots have endorsed this conclusion. But the doctors who conducted these experiments and those who share their conclusions are not quacks.

More for those who wish to investigate this further: http://worldwithoutcancer.org.uk/quacks.html

Until I see the mechanism of action of these so-called natural treatments and how they specifically target cancer I am unconvinced of otherwise mere words written here!

Are you waiting for the FDA to show you? :ermm:

It’s not my job to convince anybody and with all due respect – to label clear facts as mere words because they challenge your set beliefs and orthodox training, is a disservice, not only to yourself but also to your patients. If you really want to see the mechanism of action and learn more about these treatments, then to start with, the least you can do is contact the medical doctors & practitioners in those fields and learn more about naturopathic medicine, what have you got to lose. Atleast the FDA did that much, albeit for the wrong reasons – I’ll give them that much credit.

[جوري]

The science I subscribe to isn't a 'set of beliefs' It's intricate and on a cellular level when myself or a collegue do research we submit it!
So the FDA gets shown by us how something works not the other way around!
And if the other way around then it's also peer reviewed and subject to our critique!
Much of what we do is a failure and gets rejected and what doesn't get rejected goes through four phase trials!
So in fact a set of belief is what you're posting above and what you subscribe to!
We've flax seed on daily basis as it's a part of our diet -honey yogurt my aunt still has bilateral ductal ca. With mets to the bones!

[جوري]

"The prime cause of cancer is the replacement of the normal oxygen respiration of body cells by an anaerobic cell respiration." - Otto Warburg (twice Nobel Laureate)

You should read his research in totality and post it here, in fact I challenge you to, and at the same time use that research to show us how it would put cancer cells into remission or destruction all together-- furthermore, his work was done in 1931 when the structure of DNA was introduced in 1953 and we're still working to decode it. Do you want inertia in science especially that cancer itself evolves as is the case with any parasitic cells that live in the host?
It is like speaking of Penicillin as a cure all when the most primitive bacteria started almost immediately producing Beta lactamase to inactivate it

It’s not my job to convince anybody and with all due respect

Actually it is, when you're actively acting to 'spread the word' malign the institution and making faulty statements as in all cancers are curable.
I'd love to see that cure for GBM IV, or Medullary Ca. Or Pancreatic CA or Ovarian CA. etc. or stomach cancer just lost an uncle to that a couple of weeks ago.. etc etc. You think people wouldn't be jumping over the 'cure all' you speak of?
Go ahead please show me the population of people who were treated with flax seed and survived cancer.

Jazaki Allah khyran

:w:

[~Zaria~]

Assalamu-alaikum,

Im short on time at the moment.
Alhamdulillah sister منوة الخيال has already shared most of my thoughts on this.
JazakAllah khayrun ukthi.

I am not posting random claims by lay people who do not have any background in science or oncology. These are medical trained doctors carrying out these alternative treatments.

Sister member x, all we are asking, begging for - is to see some evidence for the improved mortality that has been claimed.

We practise what is called 'evidence-based medicine': in other words, in order to prevent mismanagement of diseases; to maximise benefit and minimise harm - there needs to be a foundation of evidence......

before we subject people to potentially toxic chemicals that may confer no benefit or reduction in mortality.


This seems fair? Yes?

Usually this evidence is first derived from animal studies - and if this shows promise, then ideally to human randomised, double-blinded, placebo-controlled trials.

From this we may be able to conclude whether that particular drug has:
- any benefit: in terms of determined outcomes and mortality
- any potential harms.

This is all that we are asking for.


I'd like to share the following site: Quackwatch (love the name! : ))

^^ I advise anyone who is considering any form of alternative therapy - to know exactly what you are dealing with, before embarking on such a route.......esp. when it comes to serious, life-threatening conditions such as cancer.

This is your life and health/ that of a loved one - and its up to you to know the rationale and evidence that exists before blindly following the 'its natural, therefore it must be good/ curative for me' flock.

May Allah grant us all understanding and guide us towards that which is best and pleasing to Him.
Ameen.


:wa:

[جوري]

I am using my phone myself to reply so I haven't gone into any depth - I want to thank you for the above since we're touched by this fron both sides .. As doctors and patients.

[piXie]

You should read his research in totality and post it here, in fact I challenge you to, and at the same time use that research to show us how it would put cancer cells into remission or destruction all together

Look ukhtee, I have posted some basic information, now it is your job as a responsible physician to investigate this information further and consult the relevant sources with an open mind. You cannot expect me to spoon feed, I'm sorry but I sincerely don’t have the time for that.

making faulty statements as in all cancers are curable.

in fact we're told for every ailment there's a cure.

^ :hmm:

Refusing to investigate beyond orthodox medicine and trusting sites like quackwatch will gain us little progress in finding these cures. There is so much more to medicine than what has just been “scientifically proven” through “double blind trials"

----------------------------------------------

If there is anyone considering alternative treatments, they should be advised to perform istikhara, & seek out the knowledgeable, qualified and medically trained doctors in those alternative fields as opposed to trying these treatments themselves or consulting with those alternative therapists who have little or no clinical experience with cancer.

We practise what is called 'evidence-based medicine'

Usually this evidence is first derived from animal studies - and if this shows promise, then ideally to human randomised, double-blinded, placebo-controlled trials.

With all due respect - u can carry on practicing that & waiting for the FDA then.

May Allah grant us all understanding and guide us towards that which is best and pleasing to Him.

Aameen.

:wasalamex

[piXie]

منوة الخيال

Im really sorry to hear about your uncle. May Allaah grant him Jannah Al Firdaus, give u all patience and grant your aunt shifaa. Aameen. You are all in my du'as.

[~Zaria~]

Look ukhtee, I have posted some basic information, now it is your job as a responsible physician to investigate this information further and consult the relevant sources with an open mind. You cannot expect me to spoon feed, I'm sorry but I sincerely don’t have the time for that.

With all due respect ukthi, it is the one who is making the claim that needs to bring the evidence to support it.

One does not make random recommendations and then request the receiver to prove its authenticity.......indeed, it works the other way (in all matters).

There is so much more to medicine than what has just been “scientifically proven” through “double blind trials"

What would be the alternative?

Dispensing therapies that have no verified benefits and the side effects/ toxicities of which are unknown?
As well as giving innocent sufferers false hopes of relief or cure, all the while knowing that there is very little if any proof or truth behind these claims.

If there is anyone considering alternative treatments, they should be advised to perform istikhara, & seek out the knowledgeable, qualified and medically trained doctors in those fields as opposed to trying these treatments themselves or consulting with those alternative therapists who have little or no clinical experience with cancer.

Alhamdulillah! : ))
Allahu Akbar!

Indeed, we are in agreement. : )

:wa:

[جوري]

I know sister member x is intelligent to understand all that's written here!
It's a matter of employing the scientific method- not just a matter of the governing body. It's a system of checks & balances.
I am open to shark fin/ox tail/flax seed if you can show me the numbers and power of the study!
You asking me to look for it means one thing- which is what you're presenting here is opinion not facts.
I am also yet to see how my statements are contradictory?
:w:

[piXie]

One does not make random recommendations and then request the receiver to prove its authenticity.......indeed, it works the other way (in all matters).

I didn’t ask you to prove its authenticity – I just asked you to look into it. If you do not want to, then that is your choice. There is no point :argue:

As-salaamu ‘alaykum.

[~Zaria~]

^ Lol.

Thats ok, ukthi.

JazakAllah khayrun for your time and efforts.


:wa: