Osama Bin Laden has been killed

[GuestFellow]

@Guestfellow.

There's no need to get into terminology as you know very well what I am talking about :P So yea, lets stick to that!

:sl:

:p:

So if an ordinary Muslim dies or one held up like those in guantanamo, no one is going to care?

People did care.

Video 'shows US man beheaded'

The murder was response to Abu Ghraib.

Unfortunately, the man was beheaded because Muslim prisoners were mistreated and were not going to be freed.

What do we even know about him other than what we're told by the media. If I asked you what he was like, could you say one factual thing on your own?

It is based on what I have read and heard on the media.

And that begs the same question. Who even knows him? All those Muslims that "like" him, what do they even know about him for themselves? Based on what are we calling him a leader for? For all we know, he could be something completely different.

Irrelevant people know him or not. You get people supporting Prime Ministers, Presidents, Monarchs, even though they never met them or are aware of their policies. There are people that support him and might respond violently because he was killed.

I dont know what possibility youre talking about?

There is a possibility that because Osama was killed, some Muslims might respond violently. They might carry out attacks against airports, western embassies, attack innocent civilians, etc. Whether this will happen or not, I have no idea.

It is as simple as that. =D

[Verdetequiero]

Death of Usamah Bin Laden: Freedom Fighter or Terrorist?

The reaction says it all, there is celebration in the streets of New York, whilst silence in the streets of the Islamic world; freedom fighter or terrorist depends on whose perspective. There is no doubt many in the Islamic world and the non-Islamic world (e.g. Latin America), are privately mourning the death of Usamah Bin Laden, seen as a symbol of resistance to Western imperialism.

Why privately? No one is going to stomp on Latin Americas door if people are out celebrating OBL. They already celebrate Che Guevara quiet openly as do many other people. The fact of the matter is that OBL has become quiet irrelevant and as such isn't that celebrated. The takfiring, kill anyone who opposes me, kill Muslims, women and children nihilistic ideology has very little appeal when broad based coalitions to gain rights and end oppression. OBL had been the face of Islam for too long and for terrible reasons. Let the revolutions in Egypt, Tunisia, and elsewhere take his place.

[جوري]

Why privately? No one is going to stomp on Latin Americas door if people are out celebrating OBL. They already celebrate Che Guevara quiet openly as do many other people. The fact of the matter is that OBL has become quiet irrelevant and as such isn't that celebrated. The takfiring, kill anyone who opposes me, kill Muslims, women and children nihilistic ideology has very little appeal when broad based coalitions to gain rights and end oppression. OBL had been the face of Islam for too long and for terrible reasons. Let the revolutions in Egypt, Tunisia, and elsewhere take his place.

you might not like the end results of these revolutions.. You speak pre-maturely of their outcome...

Where is rod serling when you need him? may he and other philosophers whose names you haven't dropped yet in your unending quest at clever shine some more wisdom upon you!


all the best

[GuestFellow]

Afghanistan is the death of empires by their own account not ours.. its people are unconquerable .. so let them try to subjugate them.. it isn't about power or might mate..

http://notesfromthebartender.wordpre...h-catastrophe/

:w:

:sl:

I'm not sure. The US has not actually set an objective in Afghanistan, according to Karen Kwiatkowski.

I highly doubt the US will be able to control Afghanistan, but for now, it does provide them with a strategic advantage over its regional enemies, especially Iran and Syria. Iran is completed surrounded. There are US military bases all over the region, including Oman, Kuwait, UAE, Iraq, etc.

Operation in Afghanistan is rooted in Israel

^ Very interesting...

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[جوري]

:sl:

I'm not sure. The US has not actually set an objective in Afghanistan, according to Karen Kwiatkowski.

I highly doubt the US will be able to control Afghanistan, but for now, it does provide them with a strategic advantage over its regional enemies, especially Iran and Syria. Iran is completed surrounded. There are US military bases all over the region, including Oman, Kuwait, UAE, Iraq, etc.

Operation in Afghanistan is rooted in Israel

^ Very interesting...

all their bases will be used against them one day insha'Allah..
also alot of their operations don't come to fruition, like with that coptic idiot swaris of Egypt and his phone towers to spy on people.. the average Muslims is too conscious of the plots comparatively speaking and far deeper in intellect even if the resources don't enable them to reach their full potential!

[Verdetequiero]

you might not like the end results of these revolutions.. You speak pre-maturely of their outcome...

Where is rod serling when you need him? may he and other philosophers whose names you haven't dropped yet in your unending quest at clever shine some more wisdom upon you!


all the best

Honestly I don't care how the end so long as anyone who wants to be governed in their own way, gets to be governed as they wish. If the Copts want to have their own country with their own laws that is fine by me so long as they don't impose their laws on others, and visa versa for any other group of people.

[جوري]

Honestly I don't care how the end so long as anyone who wants to be governed in their own way, gets to be governed as they wish. If the Copts want to have their own country with their own laws that is fine by me so long as they don't impose their laws on others, and visa versa for any other group of people.

No country's constitution is based on the exception Egypt is 90% Muslim if the copts want their own country perhaps they can have it in your back yard?.. I am glad you don't care for the outcome and insha'Allah the outcome is khilafah Rashida over the entire Muslim region, with no passports or borders!

all the best

[Verdetequiero]

No country's constitution is based on the exception Egypt is 90% Muslim if the copts want their own country perhaps they can have it in your back yard?.. I am glad you don't care for the outcome and insha'Allah the outcome is khilafah Rashida over the entire Muslim region, with no passports or borders!

all the best

Or on the land the Egyptian Copts are working and living on themselves? They have done more to improve that land than anyone else has, why should anyone else claim the land instead of them?

[Futuwwa]

Honestly I don't care how the end so long as anyone who wants to be governed in their own way, gets to be governed as they wish. If the Copts want to have their own country with their own laws that is fine by me so long as they don't impose their laws on others, and visa versa for any other group of people.

I doubt that would be practically feasible. The Copts are pretty dispersed throughout Egypt, no sensible division of current Egyptian territory would achieve a Copt majority inside it. And honestly I'd see little point in it. There aren't any significant cultural differences between Egyptian Copts and Egyptian Muslims, as much as a few embittered Copts would like to believe differently.

[Verdetequiero]

Hint: If Muslims want to start a Shariah state on their own property, even in the evil United States they should be able to because the Muslim who owns the land has more a claim to it than some guy in Washington. The same applies to the Copts in Egypt as well though.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

:sl:

:p:



People did care.



Unfortunately, the man was beheaded because Muslim prisoners were mistreated and were not going to be freed.




It is based on what I have read and heard on the media.



Irrelevant people know him or not. You get people supporting Prime Ministers, Presidents, Monarchs, even though they never met them or are aware of their policies. There are people that support him and might respond violently because he was killed.



There is a possibility that because Osama was killed, some Muslims might respond violently. They might carry out attacks against airports, western embassies, attack innocent civilians, etc. Whether this will happen or not, I have no idea.

It is as simple as that. =D

I dont support any leader like ppl do, going on with blind support. And that is different from Osama by miles. No one actually hears what he says. Most of the world do not speak Arabic. And whatever Arabic is spoken, you have "random" translators. Usually non muslims you see doing it. Most of the videos look ridiculously fake, horrible audio on top of that :/ You hear from "Osama" once in a blue moon and it just so happens its the West that receives most of it? So it is not irrelevant. These "leaders" we can see. Him, we do not.

It's not a simple as that. If it was simple, you and I would not even be discussing this! =D

[جوري]

Or on the land the Egyptian Copts are working and living on themselves? They have done more to improve that land than anyone else has, why should anyone else claim the land instead of them?

I suggest you not comment on things you have very little knowledge also what kind of Constitution can one run on their property?
you're too funny!

Hint: If Muslims want to start a Shariah state on their own property, even in the evil United States they should be able to because the Muslim who owns the land has more a claim to it than some guy in Washington. The same applies to the Copts in Egypt as well though.

I have no idea what this drivel means..

all the best

[GuestFellow]

Hint: If Muslims want to start a Shariah state on their own property, even in the evil United States they should be able to because the Muslim who owns the land has more a claim to it than some guy in Washington. The same applies to the Copts in Egypt as well though.

I'm lost. What are you talking about? :p:

I dont support any leader like ppl do, going on with blind support. And that is different from Osama by miles. No one actually hears what he says. Most of the world do not speak Arabic. And whatever Arabic is spoken, you have "random" translators. Usually non muslims you see doing it. Most of the videos look ridiculously fake, horrible audio on top of that :/ You hear from "Osama" once in a blue moon and it just so happens its the West that receives most of it? So it is not irrelevant. These "leaders" we can see. Hm, we do not.

It's not a simple as that. If it was simple, you and I would not even be discussing this! =D

Oh I'm not talking about Muslims in genral. There must be some Muslims that actually know and met Osama. I'm referring to them that they might carry out an attack. I don't believe that there is a group called Al Qaeda plotting to take over the world, the usual nonsense we on hear on the mainstream media but it is very likely Osama might have known some Muslim militants who are loyal to him.

Then again, I'm not even sure if he is dead. :/

I have no idea what this drivel means..

LOL Same here. I like the term drivel for some reason...

[جوري]

LOL Same here. I like the term drivel for some reason...

me too I even wrote a long prose once entitled just that :haha:

[Verdetequiero]

I suggest you not comment on things you have very little knowledge also what kind of Constitution can one run on their property?

The same as any country can run over a collection of properties. What claim does some bureaucrat have over a man or woman's property far away from his domain in a guilded building miles away?

I have no idea what this drivel means..

I have no doubt that you wouldn't. Pearls before swine and all that...

In short, I don't care how the revolutions in Tunisia or Egypt turns out as long as every person is allowed to choose how to rule themselves as they see fit.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

LOL I like it when she uses drivel too :P Favorite word =D

[جوري]

The same as any country can run over a collection of properties. What claim does some bureaucrat have over a man or woman's property far away from his domain in a guilded building miles away?

Except we're not speaking of property so I have no idea why you have introduced that into the topic? Does it bring it down to a low common denominator that is easier for you to understand?

I have no doubt that you wouldn't. Pearls before swine and all that...

Glad you recognize yourself for what you're indeed.. perhaps if you quite gorging on all that spam it wouldn't reflect so much in what you spew?

In short, I don't care how the revolutions in Tunisia or Egypt turns out as long as every person is allowed to choose how to rule themselves as they see fit.

I am sure the revolutionaries will keep your interests in mind!

all the best

[Verdetequiero]

Except we're not speaking of property so I have no idea why you have introduced that into the topic? Does it bring it down to a low common denominator that is easier for you to understand?

It is said that women are deficient of understanding, but I don't believe them. Times like this try my faith though. The idea of property is a differentiator between Egypt, Tunisia and me. Why are those revolutionaries entitled to govern themselves as they see fit and not what I tell them or what the United States tells them? Because it is their land and they chose to live how they wish on their own land. They can chose to head others advice or not, but it is their choice because it is their land and not the United States' land or any others. I am sure you understand that, so you're apology is not necessary.

Glad you recognize yourself for what you're indeed.. perhaps if you quite gorging on all that spam it wouldn't reflect so much in what you spew?

Why not a swine? If left to its own devices a swine is one the most cleanlinessof all animals. It chooses to defecate away from where it eats, makes nests, cares for it's young, and cleans its self, which is better than many of those poor ape like animals that claim to be enlightened.

I am sure the revolutionaries will keep your interests in mind!

I do not pretend that my opinion matters to the the brave revolutionaries any more than the poor ramblings of any other person here. Hats off to those who braved the rocks and bullets, torture, and fear. May others claim their credit behind their keyboards.

all the best

My dear, don't lie it is unbecoming of a lady. Well it isn't of the feminine gender, but of you particularly it is.

[CosmicPathos]

Afghanistan is the death of empires by their own account not ours.. its people are unconquerable .. so let them try to subjugate them.. it isn't about power or might mate..

http://notesfromthebartender.wordpre...h-catastrophe/

:w:

This. Just for fun :p http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOuspHz4MJw

[جوري]

This. Just for fun :p http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOuspHz4MJw

love it..

jzk

[LavaDog]

^ The murder was response to Abu Ghraib in particular...

Well thats the offical story. The article says he was a private contractor but they now admit he was CIA plus he was jailed because he had a Israeli passport. Just saying...

[Ramadhan]

I do not know what to believe about OBL, whether he actually was killed in Pakistan or that he was already dead. I don't know how much OBL had to do with 9/11 either. I've been vehemently against both wars since their conception and always will be. What I don't get is people believing that OBL masterminded 9/11, but praising him anyways...and when confronted, they say "well the U.S. killed more people in Iraq and Afghanistan". Seriously? That some how erases the fact that almost 3,000 civilians from all walks of life perished just because they went into work that day? I find it VERY surprising the amount of support on this thread.

Has there been anyone here who said that Obama masterminded 9/11 AND praised him for that?

Please show us that VERY surprising amount of support!

[YusufNoor]

i don't understand what the heck is going on!

on Sunday, the TV said, "bin Laden is dead and we have his body to prove it!"
on Monday, the TV said, bin Laden is dead, but we DON'T have his body to prove it!"

then why did you say that you DID have it?

i thought bin Laden has been dead for years.

NEXT, the govt says, "we pretty much thought we knew where bin Laden has been for the last five years!"


WHAT? you telling me the Bush "KNEW" or pretty close to knew where bin Laden was living. FIVE YEARS AGO! REALLY?

THEN the govt says Pres Obama HAS KNOW where binLaden has been living since August last year!? REALLY? and this "special news" wouldn't have helped the Dems in last falls election? they PASSED that chance up?! REALLY?

and THEN, they say that bin Laden has been living in the middle of a army barracks town with like 3 regiments stationed there, REALLY? hear no ISI see no ISI talk no ISI?

so to recap. the US invaded another country's air space WITHOUT their knowledge. staged a raid, and killed an unarmed man. killed a bunch of other people too. fled back to Afghanistan. headed out to sea. and THEN wanted to treat a body "Islamically!"

people in the US sing "ding dong the witch is dead" for 2 days.

i don't get it, why would you say that the "bogey man" is dead?

UNLESS you have another?

and now Bush is getting the credit! BECAUSE he let folks be tortured!

i see some Muslims saying bin Laden is a terrorist i don't think you can say that about a Muslim without some proof. Allah knows best. and some here [where i live, especially CAIR and the ahmadiyyahs, who i don't mean to refer to as Muslims] saying that they are GLAD he is dead!

"revolution" is sweeping the Middle East and parts of Africa and now this...

i feel totally clueless!:embarrass

[BoredAgnostic]

So which is it? He masterminded 911? or he didn't?
lots of people around the world indeed want to do just that get up in the morning and go to work and provide for their families but it is made difficult by folks like this?

the least disturbing image indeed of its kind!

So are you surprised? one country's quintessential bad guy is another country's freedom fighter!

all the best

In my personal opinion, I do not know. I believe that our government had much more to do with 9/11 than what they disclosed. Whether or not Bin Laden played an actual part in it is questionable to me. I was talking about those that actually believe he masterminded it, but still support him I find that disturbing. Since when do two incredible wrongs make a right? I understand that the amount of civilians that have died in both Iraq and Afghanistan completely surpass the civilians that died in 9/11 and it's sickening no question about it. ...I just don't see how you can (assuming you believe it) praise someone for orchestrating something like that.........

And yeah, that's a pretty revolting picture.

[Hamza Asadullah]

I request all members in this thread to please stick to the topic and to talk to each other in a kind manner and not resort to mockery or name calling. Thank you

[BoredAgnostic]

Has there been anyone here who said that Obama masterminded 9/11 AND praised him for that?

Please show us that VERY surprising amount of support!

I didn't scroll through every page in the thread but Ahmed M, insecure soul and islamiclife, even if they didn't agree with what took place on 9/11, they still seem to rally behind OBL. I didn't say they praised him for supposedly committing that crime, but they still support him and his cause, and I don't see how you can, since it would completely go against what Islam stands for? As someone, I think Tyrion mentioned earlier, if they support Bin Laden but don't believe that he orchestrated it then that's fine..I have my doubts as well....but actually believing he did but was misguided...is another story...

[جوري]

In my personal opinion, I do not know. I believe that our government had much more to do with 9/11 than what they disclosed. Whether or not Bin Laden played an actual part in it is questionable to me. I was talking about those that actually believe he masterminded it, but still support him I find that disturbing. Since when do two incredible wrongs make a right? I understand that the amount of civilians that have died in both Iraq and Afghanistan completely surpass the civilians that died in 9/11 and it's sickening no question about it. ...I just don't see how you can (assuming you believe it) praise someone for orchestrating something like that.........

And yeah, that's a pretty revolting picture.

I think the majority of folks believe that 911 was an inside job.. no one takes pleasure in seeing innocent people dead, but too much hatred and deliberate malice hardens the soul even toward ordinary people.. there is really only so much folks can withstand while standing idly or even being at the front line of the abuse!

all the best

[Verdetequiero]

I think the majority of folks believe that 911 was an inside job.. no one takes pleasure in seeing innocent people dead, but too much hatred and deliberate malice hardens the soul even toward ordinary people.. there is really only so much folks can withstand while standing idly or even being at the front line of the abuse!

all the best

I was not aware that the truth was so arbitrarily subject to a majority vote. Should a cancer victim and a doctor take a vote on how long the victim would live? Would the cancer listen? I do agree that there is only so much that a person could take. I refer you to the infinite wisdom of the movie, "Falling Down".

[BoredAgnostic]

I think the majority of folks believe that 911 was an inside job.. no one takes pleasure in seeing innocent people dead, but too much hatred and deliberate malice hardens the soul even toward ordinary people.. there is really only so much folks can withstand while standing idly or even being at the front line of the abuse!

all the best

Yeah, I guess to a certain extent I can understand the reasoning behind that mentality. I guess it is easy for me to say "Well that's just wrong" and yada yada yada, while living in relative comfort and far removed from the horrors of war and devastation. For those that do actually believe, I still think the support is wrong..but I also do find it disgustingly hypocritical for people (in general) to mourn for those that were lost in 9/11 and say how tragic and awful it was (not that it wasn't) but on the other hand just almost dismiss the 100s of thousand of Afghanis and Iraqis that have been tortured, killed, and their homes completely destroyed and label them simply as "collateral damage" and "it's unfortunate but necessary". The people out in the streets celebrating Bin Laden's death like it was the 4th of July or something; I thought that was pretty distasteful.

[جوري]

Yeah, I guess to a certain extent I can understand the reasoning behind that mentality. I guess it is easy for me to say "Well that's just wrong" and yada yada yada, while living in relative comfort and far removed from the horrors of war and devastation. For those that do actually believe, I still think the support is wrong..but I also do find it disgustingly hypocritical for people (in general) to mourn for those that were lost in 9/11 and say how tragic and awful it was (not that it wasn't) but on the other hand just almost dismiss the 100s of thousand of Afghanis and Iraqis that have been tortured, killed, and their homes completely destroyed and label them simply as "collateral damage" and "it's unfortunate but necessary". The people out in the streets celebrating Bin Laden's death like it was the 4th of July or something; I thought that was pretty distasteful.

Actually I found it odd, they had their slogans at a moment's notice and had an organized rally.. The whole thing is certainly odd.. I'd like to look at it objectively 5 years from now.. at this moment I can't sort through truth from fiction but have completely turned off my TV.. the revolutions and killings in the middle east have been completely marginalized in the wake of these events and it is clear that they're still working on the official story..

best,

[ابن آل مرة]

[in jihad]

Assalam alaikum.

I been thinking about this thread and so many response.

I have question. If u know that u gonna to die tomorrow you gonna spend time talking about Osama death?

[BoredAgnostic]

Actually I found it odd, they had their slogans at a moment's notice and had an organized rally.. The whole thing is certainly odd.. I'd like to look at it objectively 5 years from now.. at this moment I can't sort through truth from fiction but have completely turned off my TV.. the revolutions and killings in the middle east have been completely marginalized in the wake of these events and it is clear that they're still working on the official story..

best,

Yea, you're right it was. Shortly after I heard about him dying, I heard that there were droves of people in the streets of D.C. with flags and hats and all that, definitely seemed organized. True, this has been a large distractor from the events happening in the Middle East; I am starting to think it was a scheme to boost up the public morale and make the war in Afghanistan something finally "worth fighting for". I'm hearing about the conflicting accounts of what supposedly happened down there and it's really weird to me as well. Why directly feed the media/administration a specific sensationalized account of what happened a.k.a flat out lying then recanting some of the major things that supposedly took place (Bin Laden being armed, using his wife as a human shield, etc). Yea, waiting it out and see what unfolds next is probably the best thing to do.

[marwen]

Interesting, how the US is trying to inset Pakistan in the "Kiling-Ossama-Bin-Ladin-operation", While Pakistan is denying that.

This reminded me of an old commercial ads of Nike shoes if my memory is good : 2 friends are in the jungle, and suddenly a lion appeared behind them. The first guy started to run, but the second guy took out a pair of fine shoes and started to put them on. His friend said to him : "Yes, the shoes will help you run quicker but, you can't escape the fast lion anyway". But the second guy replied : "What I care about the most is to outrun you, not the lion". This means if he outruns his friend the lion will get his friend first and be busy with him so he can escape the lion.

Sorry for the long story, but this is exactly what the US is trying to do now with Pakistan : make Pakistan involved in the Ossama killing, then Ossama followers wil have 2 enemies : US and Pakistan. Pakistan is closer to them so they start fighting the Pakistani gov first and keep busy with and endless war there, while the US escapes and cuts all its relations with Pakistan. Very clever, no?

[Skunkman]

From Allah we come to Allah we go

[muslimsister1]

:sl:

Hope your all in gud health by the grace of Almighty Allah SWT, wel wen i heard this news i dint belive it n i still dont.

If you have just captured the most wanted man in the world surley you would wnat the world to see him?! also Obama's presidensy (sorry for spelling) is on the line, he needs to get pple to vote for him in the election, what better way to get pple onside, also like some1 has mentind it is to distract the killing taking place in middle east.

If he was killed a week ago, y wait to annouce this news? for the DNA?! i dnt thnk so!! y woould u need DNA if you knew your target and was sur you killed him!!!

Burying him @ sea according to the muslim ritual?!! der having a laff... who gve him gusul?!!

Surley the the soldiers who went to kill him would have taken a video recording on their phone? i mean come on they have just killed the most wanted man in the world!!!

I just dont belve this news, all made up to cover obamas back as he has done naff all since becmng president.

:wa:

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

Pakistan Responds With Disbelief

^ Update.

I was going to post the BBC version of events but I thought Inter Press Service sound more reliable. Share your views.

[Futuwwa]

Since when did the kuffaar care about the sentiments of Muslims? LOL.
Seriously though, since when?

Since they have begun acting in rational self-interest, presumably. In a situation where respecting Muslim sentiments can be easily done at little to no cost (including opportunity cost), it is entirely in the self-interest of the "kuffaar" in question to do so.

[Bobiraptor]

I was going to post the BBC version of events but I thought Inter Press Service sound more reliable. Share your views.

Thanks for posting the article! Not so much a report of the events than various opinions on how and why, but very interesting to read. It's probably a fruitless exercise to speculate about what really happened, if anything really happened at all. In my opinion, only one thing is certain, and that is that all of the 'facts' that have been reported so far make little sense.
Obama is an intelligent man, and as such i don't believe that he would put himself in the position that this could blow up in his face. With the resources that the US have available to them, it is certain that they will have an absolutely airtight case, one way or another. I believe that we'll see it soon enough. All we can do is wait.

[Ansariyah]

So much doesnt make sense, and I refuse to buy any of this nonsense. I sincerely believe that the real truth is concealed by the duplicitous Kufar who will do anything to fight Islam.

We dont know nothing, all we know is the lies we are being fed. We dont know if he truly died, and if he honestly died in the hands of people whom we all know, they wouldve shown his dead body all over the world.

Wherever he is, May Allah grant the Shaykh Jannah, and grant him the honourable status of martyrdom, ameen.

[ابن آل مرة]

Shaykh Abu Ashbaal on Martyrdom of OBL, Salat al-Ghaa`ib is performed in the end of the video..(View of Imam Abu Hanifah and one of the views of Ahmad ibn Hanbal, may Allah have mercy on both of them.)

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

Obama rejects releasing bin Laden death photo

^ Update.

A New York Times/CBS News poll showed Obama's approval ratings jumped 11 points to 57 per cent after the operation, though many Americans fear revenge attacks

How predictable.

[titus]

Wherever he is, May Allah grant the Shaykh Jannah, and grant him the honourable status of martyrdom, ameen.

For a man who issued a fatwah calling for the killing of civilians I find it disturbing that you would wish this.

I find it disturbing that you would honor a man simply because he called himself a Muslim and fought against his "enemies" yet totally disregard the manner in which he did it and the consequences that Muslims around the world have had to face because of it.

The man deserves to burn in hell forever for all the grief he has caused, directly and indirectly, to Muslims and non-Muslims around the world and I don't see the Allah that I read about on these forums granting him paradise for his deeds.

[جوري]

How predictable.

You'd think with the kind of Ape bravado they show in Abu gharib, Gitmo, and especially in Afghanistan where they enjoy keeping civilian body parts as souvenirs that they'd jump at the opportunity of displaying the quintessential bad guy mangled and dead if for no other reason than to satisfy their sick hatred of Muslims..

:w:

[titus]

You'd think with the kind of Ape bravado they show in Abu gharib, Gitmo, and especially in Afghanistan where they enjoy keeping civilian body parts as souvenirs that they'd jump at the opportunity of displaying the quintessential bad guy mangled and dead if for no other reason than to satisfy their sick hatred of Muslims..

Those actions (keeping souvenirs) are illegal, yet they do happen sometimes. Killing innocent civilians is also not a part of Islam, yet Muslims sometimes do it to satisfy their sick hatred of non-Muslims.

[Jalal~]

wait, why are you guys sad that bin Laden died? i mean yea he was a muslim, but he did help kill innocent people right? just kind of confused here...

[Cabdullahi]

Powerful what Photoshop can do

[GuestFellow]

wait, why are you guys sad that bin Laden died? i mean yea he was a muslim, but he did help kill innocent people right? just kind of confused here...

:sl:

There are some Muslims that support Osama and are sad to see him dead. This is because these Muslims believe he fought against western occupation of Muslim countries like Afghanistan. Some of these Muslims also believe that he was not responsible for September 11th attacks and believe someone else was behind the attacks.

I personally have not formed an opinion. I never met this man nor do I know anything about him. If he was behind 9/11 attacks, then I would never support him and I would consider him to be a vile man. It would have been interesting to see him get captured and put on trial. I'm still not sure what exactly happened on 9/11.

[جوري]

Those actions (keeping souvenirs) are illegal, yet they do happen sometimes. Killing innocent civilians is also not a part of Islam, yet Muslims sometimes do it to satisfy their sick hatred of non-Muslims.

blah blah blah.. blah blah blah... blah blah blah.. blah blah blah.. blah blah blah... blah blah blah .. blah blah blah.. blah blah blah... blah blah blah .. blah blah blah.. blah blah blah... blah blah blah .. blah blah blah.. blah blah blah... blah blah blah

Powerful what Photoshop can do

:haha: hilarious ..

[Cabdullahi]

for all the torture vids she's watched, she cannot stomach this...ridiculous

Condoleezza chicken and tasty rice had more guts

[جوري]

for all the torture vids she's watched, she cannot stomach this...ridiculous Condoleeza rice had more guts

she had some satay pig tongue and was holding back a big belch...

[ابن آل مرة]

Photos of 3 dead men at the Compound. may Allah accept them as shuhadah! Ameen ya rabb..*Graphic*

http://mediacdn.reuters.com/media/global/specials/bin-laden/bin-laden-compound1.jpg
http://mediacdn.reuters.com/media/global/specials/bin-laden/bin-laden-compound2.jpg
http://mediacdn.reuters.com/media/global/specials/bin-laden/bin-laden-compound3.jpg
http://mediacdn.reuters.com/media/global/specials/bin-laden/bin-laden-compound4.jpg

[GuestFellow]

^ What a horrible way to die...

[جوري]

I see a photo of a green toy gun does that mean there were children there? imsad

pls. remove the photo it is disrespectful to them .. even if these pigs enjoy the kill and their over sadomasochism we shouldn't be along the same lines.. we've been refined by our religion!

:w:

[ابن آل مرة]

Sheikh's 13 year old daughter was present in the compound and witnessed the killings. But she was safe alhamdulillah.

ukhti, I think the photos should stay, there is no way I am disrespecting them. It is part of life, and death comes in many different ways.

[Dagless]

Yeah there was a photo of the helicopter tail too (which they say doesn't look like any currently in use). I'm sure they use top technology but a failure rate of 50% isn't great.

I think it's obvious they had no intention of capturing him. At least 4 people shot dead, 1 injured, and all of them unarmed :S

They've changed the story on the news again too. Yesterday it was reported he was shot twice in the head and today it's one shot in the head and one in the chest. Either way if you shoot someone twice in the head, or in the chest then head, you're not really considering taking them in alive (or taking every care to avoid casualties as was reported).

[Chavundur]

How can a country act like nomad tribe and kill its enemy without judging or showing his justice before aggrieved ones ? What kind of a Government try to play some animated scenarios without thinking new generated communication lines ? Either be Christian or Muslim, You have too much reason to hate US Government. I see a tragedy putting forward the savageness in front of billions.

[titus]

blah blah blah.. blah blah blah... blah blah blah.. blah blah blah.. blah blah blah... blah blah blah .. blah blah blah.. blah blah blah... blah blah blah .. blah blah blah.. blah blah blah... blah blah blah .. blah blah blah.. blah blah blah... blah blah blah

Are you 10 years old?

I think it's obvious they had no intention of capturing him.

I believe you are correct.

They've changed the story on the news again too. Yesterday it was reported he was shot twice in the head and today it's one shot in the head and one in the chest. Either way if you shoot someone twice in the head, or in the chest then head, you're not really considering taking them in alive (or taking every care to avoid casualties as was reported).

For one thing they have never really said they had much of an intention to capture him. If he showed any kind of resistance at all they were going to kill him.

And they haven't really changed their story, as you have multiple government officials (none of whom were there) who got their information third or fourth hand at best trying to answer questions from reporters. Unless you are hearing news from a source that is first hand or that has seen the official report with their own eyes then assume that they may have some of the facts wrong. I have no doubt that, much like 9/11, there will be a lot of misinformation being printed in the first few weeks after the incident.

[جوري]

Are you 10 years old?

that is an adequate assessment of your thought process and writing style-- the reply is the most suitable to your level of expertise .. I do wish everyone else would adopt it when replying to you as well!

all the best

[titus]

As expected, a response on the level of "I know you are but what am I". Thanks for the laugh :)

[جوري]

As expected, a response on the level of "I know you are but what am I". Thanks for the laugh :)

drivel much?

all the best

[LavaDog]

How can a country act like nomad tribe and kill its enemy without judging or showing his justice before aggrieved ones ?

I wondered the same when the Taliban hung a kid accused of spying.

[ابن آل مرة]

The person in the first picture is Sheikh Usama's son, Hamzah. He was 20 years old. may Allah accept him. Ameen

[جوري]

The person in the first picture is Sheikh Usama's son, Hamzah. He was 20 years old. may Allah accept him. Ameen

his arm looks broken.. Allah yer7amo

[Ramadhan]

For a man who issued a fatwah calling for the killing of civilians I find it disturbing that you would wish this.

You must be disturbed daily because majority americans supported Bush as well as your government who regards non-american civilian lives as "collateral damage".

You need to look at the mirror first, and see what your fellow americans think on daily basis.

[Pygoscelis]

You must be disturbed daily because majority americans supported Bush as well as your government who regards non-american civilian lives as "collateral damage".

You need to look at the mirror first, and see what your fellow americans think on daily basis.

Indeed. Bush and his followers scared the bejeebus out of me. Now note, that doesn't make titus' point any less potent.

Just because somebody isn't an american, or just because somebody isn't a muslim, is no reason to judge them less human or their lives less important. Now, them having ordered the deaths of thousands, that just may be. I have no pitty and feel no loss for Osama. I'm glad he's dead. I don't celebrate his death but I'm glad one monster is slain. I would like to see the same justice befall Bush and Cheney. I was very disapointed in Obama when he didn't even try to hold Bush responsible for war crimes and torture.

[Bobiraptor]

You'd think with the kind of Ape bravado they show in Abu gharib, Gitmo, and especially in Afghanistan where they enjoy keeping civilian body parts as souvenirs that they'd jump at the opportunity of displaying the quintessential bad guy mangled and dead if for no other reason than to satisfy their sick hatred of Muslims..

Sister, this kind of generalisation is not accurate and not helpful. While there are individuals from every nation and religion who will do atrocious things, it is a blind person who paints everyone with the same brush.

[Chavundur]

I wondered the same when the Taliban hung a kid accused of spying.

That means You say directly, There is no difference between Taliban and USA.

[جوري]

Sister, this kind of generalisation is not accurate and not helpful. While there are individuals from every nation and religion who will do atrocious things, it is a blind person who paints everyone with the same brush.

It isn't a generalization I didn't say ALL I said 'they'.. which is quite nondescript but it does beg the question.. I have no desire to focus on ancillary things like wording that is deemed appropriate.. I'd like to know if 'they' will go after Chabad rabbi for his comment "The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle),"
or does that not qualify as instigatory hate speech?

[Trumble]

That means You say directly, There is no difference between Taliban and USA.

That would follow only if you are 'saying directly' that there is no difference between OBL and the seven year old the Taliban hung for allegedly 'spying'. Are you saying that?

[LavaDog]

That means You say directly, There is no difference between Taliban and USA.

Yes, I believe both the taliban and the US soldiers fight for what they think is right and in each group they have a few people who have killed civilians. Do you feel the taliban had moral high ground over the US when they hung a kid?

[Bintulislam]

Yes, I believe both the taliban and the US soldiers fight for what they think is right and in each group they have a few people who have killed civilians. Do you feel the taliban had moral high ground over the US when they hung a kid?

Assalamu Alaikum!

Well,we know that United states founded talibans...so talibans do follow a lot of instructions that there founders left them with.Secondly,what we don't know is that whatever these news channels show us is true or not(I mean ,it was reported in a well reputed newspaper when 2 Russian journalists were shooting a fake taliban punishment video here in Pakistan)--United states(the Govt) has been the perpetrator of falsehoods and conspiracies plus the double standards makes it more ugly and inhuman than the talibans.

[Cabdullahi]

An allergy and not anguish may explain why Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had her hand to her mouth while watching the commando operation to kill Osama bin Laden, she said on Thursday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42914093...es_and_asthma/

Allergy lol

[Zafran]

Salaam

so what happens beyond Bin Laden -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD1ke...&feature=feedu

Empire on al ajzeera.

peace

[Chavundur]

Yes, I believe both the taliban and the US soldiers fight for what they think is right and in each group they have a few people who have killed civilians. Do you feel the taliban had moral high ground over the US when they hung a kid?

Taliban may be inspired by American way, I don't know whether Taliban hung a kid or not but I know that Recent America and old America which has killed thousands of Indians, has no moral difference. Simple Logic, I have power, so I am Right, so I can kill my enemy with some collateral damage which I don't care, Taliban should be gone because there is a decrease in drug production, I need drug to shut my citizens brain off. What a weak comparison to support American policy, Taliban against USA. If Taliban cuts one throat, America can burn Iraq. I think America needs more drug consumption.

[Salahudeen]

It's only 5 mins long check it out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uKbovoNrNo

[LavaDog]

Well,we know that United states founded talibans

Very true.

United states(the Govt) has been the perpetrator of falsehoods and conspiracies plus the double standards makes it more ugly and inhuman than the talibans.

Yes I know we have had fire fights with drug cartels over opium and then the news reports we had contact with taliban fighters selling drugs. But the taliban still kills people and people have to realize that even if they don't want to. I dont like seeing videos or pics of troops killing civilians but its a huge doulbe standard to pretend all killings by the taliban are fabrication. Even the civilians are pretty brutal in Afghanistan. You could yell Shiite and you could form an angry mob armed with pitch forks and torches.

[Sunnie Ameena]

Titus and Goodfellow, I think what you two posted is good. It makes alot of since.
I would also like to say, that if bin Laden was behind 9/11 he will be held accountable, along with anyone else who was involved. I am wanting to convert to Islam, and will not let the hateful views on this forum stop me. I do not believe all Muslims are that way, just like I do not believe all Americans are that way. Watch the news, there are also many Americans that wanted justice, just like there were many Muslims who wanted it, and vice versa.
I do feel very sad that his daughter had to see what went on. Maybe we should think about what is going on with the children that were there instead of all this backbiting and criticizing. It is starting to get really silly here, considering someone is going so far as to criticize the way people write, maybe your opinion doesn't matter to alot of us. So I ask, do you criticize the the Muslims that are glad he is dead, or just the Americans that are glad he is dead.
I think more people need to pull together and help all those that were victims of this event, instead of pointing fingers. Put yourself in their shoes, wouldn't you want people to help you? Peace, Sunnie

[جوري]

It's only 5 mins long check it out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uKbovoNrNo

Interesting..

Anyhow, in Egypt they're offering the Janaazah prayer for him tomorrow and in Al masry newspaper they said Egypt would have offered a burial spot (so that takes care of what country would want him) also they're questioning who performed the so-called sharia prayers and burial for the dead the Islamic way for him before they set him out to sea!

:w:

[Futuwwa]

How can a country act like nomad tribe and kill its enemy without judging or showing his justice before aggrieved ones ?

Uh, that's called war. It's not always feasible to capture enemies and put them on trial. During the Battle of Badr, did the Prophet and his companions just bonk the Quraishi on the head to stun them to be able to capture them without killing any of them? Like hell they did, they cut them to pieces. Mercy is reserved for those who surrender, or those who are lucky enough to be taken out of action with a wounding but not killing blow.

[جوري]

Uh, that's called war. It's not always feasible to capture enemies and put them on trial

I am so glad you wrote that, I was about to mention it in passing yesterday then figured isn't it just common sense?

:w:

[yas2010]

Originally Posted by Chavundur

How can a country act like nomad tribe and kill its enemy without judging or showing his justice before aggrieved ones ?



Uh, that's called war. It's not always feasible to capture enemies and put them on trial. During the Battle of Badr, did the Prophet and his companions just bonk the Quraishi on the head to stun them to be able to capture them without killing any of them? Like hell they did, they cut them to pieces. Mercy is reserved for those who surrender, or those who are lucky enough to be taken out of action with a wounding but not killing blow.

Have to agree with you.

Didn't the Nazi's get the Nuremberg trials?

[Bintulislam]

But the taliban still kills people and people have to realize that even if they don't want to. I dont like seeing videos or pics of troops killing civilians but its a huge doulbe standard to pretend all killings by the taliban are fabrication. Even the civilians are pretty brutal in Afghanistan. You could yell Shiite and you could form an angry mob armed with pitch forks and torches.[/QUOTE]


There's no point denying it but before that one must acknowledge that there are many 'types' of talibans(Afghani,Jihadi,Russian,American and Indian etc)I remember reading a column where that journalist had researched of how many cults with different motives have been functioning under the same label 'Talibans'--we don't even know that whether they are all muslims.

And a very big yes to the brutal cultural responses--that as you have pointed it out also proves that its their culture--its not Islam's fault.And that they do not represent fundamental Muslims.

As for Uncle Sam,this guy has no iman and no conscience.I choose not to believe anything that the Govt. of U.S puts up.It is because of them that world is suffering form such consequences.Nobody is safe.

[Cabdullahi]

hillary clinton coughs while she's surprised and shocked

[Chavundur]

Uh, that's called war. It's not always feasible to capture enemies and put them on trial. During the Battle of Badr, did the Prophet and his companions just bonk the Quraishi on the head to stun them to be able to capture them without killing any of them? Like hell they did, they cut them to pieces. Mercy is reserved for those who surrender, or those who are lucky enough to be taken out of action with a wounding but not killing blow.

I see no relation between your message and mine. I say, America could capture him alive without killing unarmed innocents. (I believe OBL is innocent too). I try to say, is there any international law among countries, or between Pakistan and America. Is there something in the name of Law. America try to bring the terms of anarchy into our world. I hope its collapse will resemble cries of innocent ones.

[Chavundur]

Have to agree with you.

Didn't the Nazi's get the Nuremberg trials?

Wauw,Sorry I can't see a open war between two army, Sorry for using that word "enemy", USA army against fantastic five ( Osama and his family)

[Futuwwa]

I see no relation between your message and mine. I say, America could capture him alive without killing unarmed innocents. (I believe OBL is innocent too). I try to say, is there any international law among countries, or between Pakistan and America. Is there something in the name of Law. America try to bring the terms of anarchy into our world. I hope its collapse will resemble cries of innocent ones.

Well, could the US have captured him? They did a commando operation into the heart of another country, you can't just bring in any amount of men and materiel on a mission like that. Osama and his henchmen resisted violently and with lethal force, how would it have been possible for the US commandos to subdue all of them without making the mission effectively impossible to succeed? What unarmed innocents are you speaking of? There is nothing illegal or dishonourable about warriors killing enemy warriors. Osama's wife was the only unarmed innocent in any way affected, and afaik she survived.

[Zafran]

Well, could the US have captured him? They did a commando operation into the heart of another country, you can't just bring in any amount of men and materiel on a mission like that. Osama and his henchmen resisted violently and with lethal force, how would it have been possible for the US commandos to subdue all of them without making the mission effectively impossible to succeed? What unarmed innocents are you speaking of? There is nothing illegal or dishonourable about warriors killing enemy warriors. Osama's wife was the only unarmed innocent in any way affected, and afaik she survived.

Bin Laden was uanrmed

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...rowan-williams

[The Ruler]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...aden-not-armed

Unnamed US officials told the New York Times that the only shots fired from within the compound in Abbottabad where Bin Laden was sheltering came from his courier Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, who was behind the door of a guesthouse adjacent to the main house. The US raiding party shot and killed Kuwaiti and a woman in the guesthouse, and on entering the main house were not fired on again, the officials said.

Multiple sources state that firefights were "going on" whilst they confronted Osama, however, I fail to understand how that could be so when the only armed man was shot before entry into the main house. Tinnitus perhaps?

[ابن آل مرة]

The firefight was actually 2 hours long according to some Jihadi sources. Plus the helicopter that they said was down because of mechanical failures is bunch of BS. It was shot down, and of course they wouldn't admit that..

Power and beautiful words..SubhanAllah.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

More food for thought

Osama bin Laden dead: justice or vengeance?

President Obama claims bin Laden's death means justice. But it does not. Regardless of bin Laden's death, as long as the deadly US wars continue in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, and beyond, justice has not been done.

by Phyllis Bennis

US agents killed Osama bin Laden in Pakistan, apparently without cooperation from the government in Islamabad. The al-Qaeda leader was responsible for great suffering; I do not mourn his death. But every action has causes and consequences, and in the current moment all are dangerous.

It's unlikely that bin Laden's killing will have much impact on the already weakened capacity of al-Qaeda, which is widely believed to be made up of only a couple hundred fighters between Afghanistan and Pakistan – though its effect on other terrorist forces is uncertain. Pakistan itself may pay a particularly high price.

As President Barack Obama described it, "After a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden." Assuming that was indeed the case, this raid reflects the brutal reality of the deadly wars in Afghanistan and Iraq that preceded it and that continue today, 10 years later – it wasn't about bringing anyone to justice, it was about vengeance.

And given the enormous human costs still being paid by Afghans, Iraqis, Pakistanis, and others in the US wars waged in the name of capturing bin Laden, it's particularly ironic that in the end it wasn't the shock-and-awe airstrikes or invasions of ground troops, but rather painstaking police work – careful investigation, cultivating intelligence sources – that made possible the realization of that goal.

President Obama acknowledged that the post-9/11 unity of the people of the United States "has at times frayed." But he didn't mention that that unity had actually collapsed completely within 24 hoUSof the horrifying attacks on the twin towers. September 11, 2001 didn't "change the world;" the world was changed on September 12, when George W. Bush announced his intention to take the world to war in response. That was the moment that the actual events of 9/11, a crime against humanity that killed nearly 3,000 people, were left behind and the "global war on terror" began. That war has brought years of war, devastation and destruction to hundreds of thousands around the world, in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and beyond.

There was an unprecedented surge of unity, of human solidarity, in response to the crime of 9/11. In the United States much of that response immediately took on a jingoistic and xenophobic frame (some of which showed up again last night in the aggressive chants of "USA, USA!!" from flag-waving, cheering crowds oUSde the White House following President Obama's speech). Some of it was overtly militaristic, racist and Islamophobic. But some really did reflect a level of human unity unexpected and rare in US history. Even internationally, solidarity with the US people for a brief moment replaced the well-deserved global anger at US arrogance, wars, and drive towards empire. In France, headlines proclaimed "nous sommes tous Américaines maintenant." We are all Americans now.

But that human solidarity was short-lived. It was destroyed by the illegal wars that shaped the US response to the 9/11 crime. Those wars quickly created numbers of victims far surpassing the 3,000 killed on September 11. The lives of millions more around the world were transformed in the face of US aggression – in Pakistan alone, where a US military team assassinated bin Laden, thousands of people have been killed and maimed by US drone strikes and the suicide bombs that are part of the continuing legacy of the US war.

These wars have brought too much death and destruction. Too many people have died and too many children have been orphaned for the United States to claim, as President Obama's triumphantly did, that "justice has been done" because one man, however symbolically important, has been killed. However one calculates when and how "this fight" actually began, the US government chose how to respond to 9/11. And that response, from the beginning, was one of war and vengeance – not of justice.

The president's speech last night could have aimed to put an end to the triumphalism of the "global war on terror" that George W. Bush began and Barack Obama claimed as his own. It could have announced a new US foreign policy based on justice, equality, and respect for other nations. But it did not. It declared instead that the US war in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, and beyond will continue.

In that reaffirmation of war, President Obama reasserted the American exceptionalism that has been a hallmark of his recent speeches, claiming that "America can do whatever we set our mind to." He equated the US ability and willingness to continue waging ferocious wars, with earlier accomplishments of the US – including, without any trace of irony, the "struggle for equality for all our citizens." In President Obama's iteration, the Global War on Terror apparently equals the anti-slavery and civil rights movements.

Today, the Arab Spring is on the rise across the Middle East and North Africa. It's ineffably sad that President Obama, in his claim that bin Laden's death means justice, didn't use the opportunity to announce the end of the deadly US wars that answered the attacks of 9/11. This could have been a moment to replace vengeance with cooperation, replace war with justice.

But it was not. Regardless of bin Laden's death, as long as those deadly US wars continue in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, and beyond, justice has not been done.

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php/...e-or-vengeance

Short succint video on the legacy of the Americas so called 'war on terror'

[Trumble]

and in Al masry newspaper they said Egypt would have offered a burial spot (so that takes care of what country would want him)

LOL... hardly. It's easy to claim what people would have done once there no possibility of them actually having to do it!

[Chavundur]

Well, could the US have captured him? They did a commando operation into the heart of another country, you can't just bring in any amount of men and materiel on a mission like that. Osama and his henchmen resisted violently and with lethal force, how would it have been possible for the US commandos to subdue all of them without making the mission effectively impossible to succeed? What unarmed innocents are you speaking of? There is nothing illegal or dishonourable about warriors killing enemy warriors. Osama's wife was the only unarmed innocent in any way affected, and afaik she survived.

I know America was able to do that ( I am an innate soldier of mind forces ). But such a thing should have been prevented in favor of MIC. ( For further information Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961 )

[Trumble]

They're already holding mass prayers for him, and questioning the legitimacy of the crap the U.S is peddling surrounding his death and burial. Perhaps you need to tell yourself whatever it is to console your own demons ..

Demons? About what? I just find it so desperately sad so many seem concerned about the how and why of the welcome demise of this psychotic lunatic when 500 or more innocents are slaughtered by army in Syria over the last week and nobody gives a d*mn. But, as with Darfur, nobody has a problem with muslims being massacred if other muslims are doing it, right?

Anyway, I see Osama's buddies aren't into prayer and prefer mourning his death in their own inimitable fashion;

A bomb exploded near a mosque in northwest Pakistan on Monday killing a woman and three children, just hours after the United States said it killed Osama bin Laden near the capital.

Source

I wonder if they'll get 'mass prayers' too? Don't worry unduly, though. I'm sure if you try hard enough you'll convince yourself it was a 'false flag' operation soon enough. :mmokay:

[جوري]

Demons? About what? I just find it so desperately sad so many seem concerned about the how and why of the welcome demise of this psychotic lunatic when 500 or more innocents are slaughtered by army in Syria over the last week and nobody gives a d*mn. But, as with Darfur, nobody has a problem with muslims being massacred if other muslims are doing it, right?

What do you know of what the heart grieves over your delusional hippie? It is completely none of your business who weeps for whom.?
If only your disgusting Govt. along with its allies weren't particularly pleased with the despots of the middle east I am sure NATO wouldn't be 'accidentally' bombing civilians of whom one was a young doctor. What would you know about that when you're too busy cracking champagne corks and celebrating the death of 'lunatics'

Anyway, I see Osama's buddies aren't into prayer and prefer mourning his death in their own inimitable fashion;

I don't know what this means, I can do without the sophomoric commentary!

Source

I wonder if they'll get 'mass prayers' too? Don't worry unduly, though. I'm sure if you try hard enough you'll convince yourself it was a 'false flag' operation soon enough. :mmokay:

I am sure a coronation of a next villain is soon to take place after the next big bomb presents in a metropolitan city near you, we can almost time such events by the popularity ratings of western despots.

You're pitiful beyond description!

[Cabdullahi]

HE DIDNT DIE ON MAY THE 1ST

December 26, 2001 Vol 15 No 4633
News of Bin Laden’s Death and Funeral 10 days ago
Islamabad -
A prominent official in the Afghan Taleban movement announced yesterday the death of Osama bin Laden, the chief of al-Qa’da organization, stating that binLaden suffered serious complications in the lungs and died a natural and quiet death.
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=16352

18 July, 2002
The US Federal Bureau of Investigation's counter-terrorism chief, Dale Watson, says he thinks Osama bin Laden is "probably" dead.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2135473.stm

October 7 2002
Osama bin Laden is "probably" dead, but former Taliban leader Mullah Omar is alive, Afghan President Hamid Karzai has said. "I would come to believe that [bin Laden] probably is dead
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/as...rzai.binladen/

October 16, 2002
TEL AVIV — Osama Bin Laden appears to be dead but his colleagues have decided that Al Qaida and its insurgency campaign against the United States will continue, Israeli intelligence sources said.
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index....;topic=32397.0

11th September 2009
Prof Codevilla pointed to inconsistencies in the videos and claimed there have been no reputable sightings of Bin Laden for years (for instance, all interceptions by the West of communications made by the Al Qaeda leader suddenly ceased in late 2001).

This week, still more questions have been raised with the publication in America and Britain of a book called Osama Bin Laden: Dead or Alive?
Written by political analyst and philosopher Professor David Ray Griffin, former emeritus professor at California's Claremont School of Theology, it is provoking shock waves - for it goes into far more detail about his supposed death and suggests there has been a cover-up by the West.
The book claims that Bin Laden died of kidney failure, or a linked complaint, on December 13, 2001, while living in Afghanistan's Tora Bora mountains close to the border with Waziristan.

In his book, Professor Griffin also endorses this theory. He says Bin Laden was treated for a urinary infection, often linked to kidney disease, at the American Hospital in Dubai in July 2001, two months before 9/11. At the same time, he ordered a mobile dialysis machine to be delivered to Afghanistan.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1LBoets9i

[LavaDog]

, I don't know whether Taliban hung a kid or not

But I do, I have seen men and women killed because they asked us for medical supplies you can't think these acts are ok can you?

but I know that Recent America and old America which has killed thousands of Indians, has no moral difference.

The US government believed that the indians were inferior to the white man and should either be exterminated, present day I am an indian and was a staff sergeant in the marines. I think I know what you were trying to do with that line but you can't really think the US is trying to exterminate the Afghans because they think they are inferior.

[LavaDog]

I know America was able to do that ( I am an innate soldier of mind forces ). But such a thing should have been prevented in favor of MIC. ( For further information Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961 )

Eisenhower single handedly prolonged the war by two years by refusing a surrender by almost the entire SS. during the war he let the airforce drop napalm on german civilians. After the war he put german pows in prison camps where seven million died. He then put false information into the nuremburg trial, Patton was going to tell the president but then he had a freak accident. Then he was the first president to put troops in vietnam after the golf of tonkin incident that they now admit never happened. That speech is probably the biggest piece of hypocracy ever written.

[Chavundur]

But I do, I have seen men and women killed because they asked us for medical supplies you can't think these acts are ok can you?

I can't capture everything committed by some human beings, Every species have some innate abilities in the name of savageness or wildness, Islam had decreased the effects of barbarism in Taliban and they had limited themselves, I mean there is still old production techniques in killing, one, four, ten children only. But some Civil societies use modern methods, They invade a whole country and cause deaths of hundreds of thousands children in order to bring democracy ( Democracy is a kind of three apes game ). That topic is not related what I say here. I respect your ancestors , especially warrior ones against democracy bearers.

The US government believed that the indians were inferior to the white man and should either be exterminated, present day I am an indian and was a staff sergeant in the marines. I think I know what you were trying to do with that line but you can't really think the US is trying to exterminate the Afghans because they think they are inferior.

If Us government believed in that way. Why we need to judge, They can make mistakes and They can apologize later ( hundred years later ), I think US don't try to exterminate the Afghans too, They indirectly try to raise drug production only or They love warm mountains. ( I don't know maybe They want to give medical supplies for executed ones by taliban )

Eisenhower single handedly prolonged the war by two years by refusing a surrender by almost the entire SS. during the war he let the airforce drop napalm on german civilians. After the war he put german pows in prison camps where seven million died. He then put false information into the nuremburg trial, Patton was going to tell the president but then he had a freak accident. Then he was the first president to put troops in vietnam after the golf of tonkin incident that they now admit never happened. That speech is probably the biggest piece of hypocracy ever written.

Thank you for further information about well known American habit, Even some presidents can lie easily or try to deceive courts, My advice is don't trust too much in american presidents. We were comparing america to USSR before, now to taliban, Great enemy with its complex nature and historical roots. If Taliban do wrong, American can make too, Why We judge. Power is right. By the way I have hope, America will come to its sense.

[YusufNoor]

Eisenhower single handedly prolonged the war by two years by refusing a surrender by almost the entire SS. during the war he let the airforce drop napalm on german civilians. After the war he put german pows in prison camps where seven million died. He then put false information into the nuremburg trial, Patton was going to tell the president but then he had a freak accident. Then he was the first president to put troops in vietnam

US troops were secretly in Vietnam in the early 50's. we put equipment there in '45 so they would be able to do alot of killing. according to Fletcher Prouty, the equipment that the US had stockpiled for the invasion of Japan went to 2 countries - Vietnam and Korea. did the US have any wars after WWII?

after the golf of tonkin incident that they now admit never happened.

psst, that was Johnson!

That speech is probably the biggest piece of hypocrisy ever written.

the reason someone referred you to Ike was his farewell address. if there was a link, you should watch it. if not, google it.

[LavaDog]

US troops were secretly in Vietnam in the early 50's. we put equipment there in '45 so they would be able to do alot of killing. according to Fletcher Prouty, the equipment that the US had stockpiled for the invasion of Japan went to 2 countries - Vietnam and Korea. did the US have any wars after WWII?

Right an eisenhower played a role in both.

psst, that was Johnson!

YeahI typed that fast, I caught that as soon as I posted it. I ment he was the first to send troops in with with the french which led up to tonkin. I have read and heard the adress but what I pointed out was listening to him on the dangers of the military industrial complex is like taking advice from hitler or stalin on why not to kill jews.

[YusufNoor]

Right an eisenhower played a role in both.

YeahI typed that fast, I caught that as soon as I posted it. I ment he was the first to send troops in with with the french which led up to tonkin. I have read and heard the adress but what I pointed out was listening to him on the dangers of the military industrial complex is like taking advice from hitler or stalin on why not to kill jews.

ya, but you have to take the speech together with what happened to JFK. watch the movie Thirteen Days. Ike had just begun to be, and JFK was figuring in it out that being Prez didn't mean nada. the "takeover" was complete with JFK's assassination.

awesome vids on JFK, RFK & MLK assassinations:

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/evidence-of-revision/

and the latest twists on the raid:

"bin Laden's" "hideout" NOT 1.5 million bucks, MAYBE 225Gs!

and there was a signal blackout DURING the raid! maybe everyone in the CP was watching Jerry Springer? :p

[Ramadhan]

Indeed. Bush and his followers scared the bejeebus out of me.

Is your name titus? are you an american?
The reason I asked Titus is that he is an american and has president who behaves similar to the image presented by the west of Osama: Justice at all costs.

I have no pitty and feel no loss for Osama. I'm glad he's dead. I don't celebrate his death but I'm glad one monster is slain.

Then surely you should be glad if every american president is slain, no?

I was very disapointed in Obama when he didn't even try to hold Bush responsible for war crimes and torture.

What makes you think Osama, oops, Obama any different than Bush?
Obama is still continuing occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan which result in the killings of civilian lives every single day. Although they call it "collateral damage" of course. As presented by western sources, al qaeda calls it "jihad", the US calls it "fighting for democracy".

The difference is of course muslims are not responsible for what "al qaeda" is doing, while american citizens supposedly democratically elect their government and hence partly responsible for what their government is doing.

[LavaDog]

Every species have some innate abilities in the name of savageness or wildness, Islam had decreased the effects of barbarism in Taliban and they had limited themselves, I mean there is still old production techniques in killing, one, four, ten children only

Ok this is the stuff that bugs me. It seems any and all killing by the west is always evil but any and all killing by the taliban is easily reconciled with. You pretty much just wrote that the taliban is the lesser of two evils since they only kill a dozen or so at a time. I dont remember if it was you or not but a few pages back in this thread someone said Osama probably felt really bad about all the innocent people that have died. i just dont see how you can justify some of the things they do.

Why We judge. Power is right.

Im not sure what you mean by this exactly. Are you saying it is ok or not? Is that not what muslims have always done, bide their time until they have enough power to take over and then say Allah is just and powerful. Dont get me wrong when they do the situation for all improved but its still power is right.

[Ramadhan]

Osama and his henchmen resisted violently and with lethal force, how would it have been possible for the US commandos to subdue all of them without making the mission effectively impossible to succeed? What unarmed innocents are you speaking of?

Were you in the raid?
The latest news coming out is that Osama was unarmed, so how did he resist " violently and with lethal force"?

Al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden was unarmed when he was killed by US troops on Sunday after resisting capture, the White House has said.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13274176

There is nothing illegal or dishonourable about warriors killing enemy warriors. Osama's wife was the only unarmed innocent in any way affected, and afaik she survived.

If allegations and accusations against Osama were true, then Osama is not just a "warrior", he is responsible for death of thousands of civilians, surely he deserves war crime trials?
Even all hitler henchmen, yugoslavia "warriors", saddam hussein, etc were not just killed.

It is obvious that the sommand for the special forces was to kill Obama on spot. oops, osama I meant.

[LavaDog]

awesome vids on JFK, RFK & MLK assassinations:

interesting I will watch it but eight hours will take some time. Probably eight hours.

ya, but you have to take the speech together with what happened to JFK. watch the movie Thirteen Days. Ike had just begun to be, and JFK was figuring in it out that being Prez didn't mean nada. the "takeover" was complete with JFK's assassination.

I made a big deal out of the eisenhower thing because I cant stand how much we white wash the history of people we like. Even if the guy was like kennedy and held hostage by the powers that be he was still a mass murderer. We give hitler a total of 6 million now days jews and the rest included so with the killing of seven million I guess he is worse than Hitler. I dont want to take advice on a run away military from a mass murdering general.

[ابن آل مرة]

I think they changed their statement that it wasn't Hamzah, but another son Khalid who died in the attack.

Yes you're right. It was Khalid. Hamzah is the younger one, no?

[Chavundur]

Ok this is the stuff that bugs me. It seems any and all killing by the west is always evil but any and all killing by the taliban is easily reconciled with. You pretty much just wrote that the taliban is the lesser of two evils since they only kill a dozen or so at a time. I dont remember if it was you or not but a few pages back in this thread someone said Osama probably felt really bad about all the innocent people that have died. i just dont see how you can justify some of the things they do.

Im not sure what you mean by this exactly. Are you saying it is ok or not? Is that not what muslims have always done, bide their time until they have enough power to take over and then say Allah is just and powerful. Dont get me wrong when they do the situation for all improved but its still power is right.

I don't justify Taliban. Taliban is the result of unfortunate cold war history process under extraordinary circumstances, can not be compared to an organized, institutionalized government like America. They defeated communism in Afganistan, They fights against another occupant now. As far as I understand They are not killing children regularly, I don't make a generalization because there is no enough reason to do that.

Why would We judge actions of America ? It has power, so It is right. Actually at this point America screwed up everything. We believe in that balance of justice is over sensitive, If you make an injustice, that makes you deserve a straight punishment. There is no need for a further discussion Geronimo. ( That's not an operation code used in Pakistan five days ago). What I claim here is that America doesn't act like a Government.

[sabr*]

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

There is nothing that can be posted to change the minds of those who consider Osama Bin Laden a Martyr and a Mujahidin and those who consider him a Muslim that disobeyed Allah's commands by directing the killings of innocent women, children and non combantants. The posts only highlight the the mindset of both positions. A treasure trove of information.

Those practicing Muslims continue to realize the word of Allah continues. Everyone will taste death. A promise from Allah.


Al-Imran (The Family of Imran) 3:185

كُلُّ نَفْسٍ ذَآئِقَةُ الْمَوْتِ وَإِنَّمَا تُوَفَّوْنَ أُجُورَكُمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ فَمَن زُحْزِحَ عَنِ النَّارِ وَأُدْخِلَ الْجَنَّةَ فَقَدْ فَازَ وَما الْحَيَاةُ الدُّنْيَا إِلاَّ مَتَاعُ الْغُرُورِ (3:185)

Kullu nafsin thaiqatu almawti wainnama tuwaffawna ojoorakum yawma alqiyamati faman zuhziha AAani alnnari waodkhila aljannata faqad faza wama alhayatu alddunya illa mataAAu alghuroori

3:185 (Y. Ali) Every soul shall have a taste of death: And only on the Day of Judgment shall you be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved far from the Fire and admitted to the Garden will have attained the object (of Life): For the life of this world is but goods and chattels of deception.
__________________________________________________ ___________________________--


Al-Imran (The Family of Imran) 3:144

وَمَا مُحَمَّدٌ إِلاَّ رَسُولٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِن قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُ أَفَإِن مَّاتَ أَوْ قُتِلَ انقَلَبْتُمْ عَلَى أَعْقَابِكُمْ وَمَن يَنقَلِبْ عَلَىَ عَقِبَيْهِ فَلَن يَضُرَّ اللّهَ شَيْئًا وَسَيَجْزِي اللّهُ الشَّاكِرِينَ (3:144)

Wama muhammadun illa rasoolun qad khalat min qablihi alrrusulu afain mata aw qutila inqalabtum AAala aAAqabikum waman yanqalib AAala AAaqibayhi falan yadurra Allaha shayan wasayajzee Allahu alshshakireena

3:144 (Y. Ali) Muhammad is no more than an apostle: many Were the apostle that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah. but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.

[KAding]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...omment/?hpt=T1

Al Qaeda, in Web message, confirms bin Laden's death

Al Qaeda released a statement on jihadist forums Friday confirming the death of its leader, Osama bin Laden, according to SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors Islamist websites.

The development comes days after U.S. troops killed bin Laden in a raid on a compound in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad.

The statement, translated by SITE, lauded the late militant, threatened to take action against the United States, and urged Pakistanis to "rise up and revolt."

Bin Laden's death will serve as a "curse that chases the Americans and their agents, and goes after them inside and outside their countries," the message said.

"Soon -- with help from Allah -- their happiness will turn into sorrow, and their blood will be mixed with their tears," it said.

The statement said al Qaeda will "continue on the path of jihad, the path walked upon by our leaders, and on top of them" bin Laden "without hesitation or reluctance.

"We will not deviate from that or change until Allah judges between us and between our enemy with truth. Indeed, He is the best of all judges. Nothing will harm us after that, until we see either victory and success and conquest and empowerment, or we die trying."

It said that Americans "will never enjoy security until our people in Palestine enjoy it."

"The soldiers of Islam, groups and individuals, will continue planning without tiredness or boredom, and without despair or surrender, and without weakness or stagnancy, until they cause the disaster that makes children look like the elderly!"

It urged Pakistanis "to cleanse this shame that has been attached to them by a clique of traitors and thieves" and "from the filth of the Americans who spread corruption in it."

Bin Laden and other militants used the Internet to post messages to their followers before and after al Qaeda's September, 11, 2001 attack on the United States.

[IslamicRevival]

^ AL-CIADA Confirms Bin Ladens death? How convenient!

Expect another 9/11 style 'False flag operation' soon
You heard it hear first

[Hannah.]

To all UKers, did some of you manage to watch Question Time yesterday? Interesting stuff!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...me_05_05_2011/

[IslamicRevival]

To all UKers, did some of you manage to watch Question Time yesterday? Interesting stuff!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...me_05_05_2011/

Thanks sis! Will be watching that later :)

[CosmicPathos]

haha now al-Qaeda on some obscure jihadist forum confirms that OBL has been killed? What is this, so that ppl can now actually believe Al qaida? lol

On one hand al-qaeda is portrayed as a terrorist organization which spews lies and now the media wants us to believe Al qaeda's confirmation of OBLs death?

lol... this world is full of .... idiots.

[GuestFellow]

lol... this world is full of .... idiots.

:sl:

I would not call them idiots but gullible....I wonder what this Jihadist website is. It sounds a bit childish lol.

[ابن آل مرة]

I doubt that AQ confirmed it..White House[may Allah blacken it] has many Arabic speakers that can make up a story and say that AQ confirmed it. Plus AQ would never say that his death is a catastrophe for Jihad, since martyrdom is what the Mujahideen look and fight for.

[ابن آل مرة]

Shaykh Ayman al-Zawahiri[حفظ الله من كل سوء )will soon release a statement..It is confirmed.

[CosmicPathos]

:sl:

I would not call them idiots but gullible....I wonder what this Jihadist website is. It sounds a bit childish lol.

look, if a rational sane human being can believe that the moon is a triangle, i wont call them gullible but rather an idiot.

[Trumble]

Eisenhower single handedly prolonged the war by two years by refusing a surrender by almost the entire SS.

Er, what??? When?? ????? SOURCE ?????

After the war he put german pows in prison camps where seven million died.

Er.... what??!!!!! SOURCE ?? That's more than the entire number of German combat deaths in WW2.

Patton was going to tell the president but then he had a freak accident.

Patton was in a fairly 'standard' low speed road traffic accident. He was particularly unlucky as regards the injuries he suffered.

Then he was the first president to put troops in vietnam after the golf of tonkin incident that they now admit never happened.

There were actually two Gulf of Tonkin incidents, the first of which nobody disputes happened - including the Vietnamese.


What have you been smoking?

[GuestFellow]

look, if a rational sane human being can believe that the moon is a triangle, i wont call them gullible but rather an idiot.

^ Salaam,


Yes but it is easier to work out that a moon is not a triangle. The circumstances surrounding Osama Bin Laden death is a lot complicated. =/

[Ansariyah]

For a man who issued a fatwah calling for the killing of civilians I find it disturbing that you would wish this.

I find it disturbing that you would honor a man simply because he called himself a Muslim and fought against his "enemies" yet totally disregard the manner in which he did it and the consequences that Muslims around the world have had to face because of it.

The man deserves to burn in hell forever for all the grief he has caused, directly and indirectly, to Muslims and non-Muslims around the world and I don't see the Allah that I read about on these forums granting him paradise for his deeds.

The fatwah was to do unto them as they do unto others. What is more disturbing is foreigners meddling in other peoples affairs and not expecting a reaction.

The manner in which he did it was justified due to the amount of oppression and the imbalance of power on the side of the oppressed vs oppressor.

He sacrificed comforts of this life, for the rewards of the hereafter. Thats someones Hero, your terrorist!

You will never understand until you either become Muslim, or experience Judgement Day!

[CosmicPathos]

^ Salaam,


Yes but it is easier to work out that a moon is not a triangle. The circumstances surrounding Osama Bin Laden death is a lot complicated. =/

I understand what you are saying. But I was referring to Al-Qaeda's comments. Media tells us that they are liars. Now Media is using Qaeda's confirmation of death as a proof that OBL indeed has been killed. I was referring to that, not to the fact that if OBL in reality has been killed or not. Hope its clear.

W salam

[CosmicPathos]

I do not know if we can say he was a hero or an enemy as for all we know, he might not actually exist or be a con-man for the US.

What we can do is criticize the kaaafir US govt nevertheless for pillaging Muslims for years and decades in their fanaticism of pursuing this man called OBL, who God knows was real or not. US has made us believe that OBL was real, through attacks on her land, we shouldnt fall of these traps.

All of a sudden, OBL is killed, Pakistani military fails to launch its jets against a mission in which foreign forces infiltrated into its land for more than hour, and all of a sudden Qaeda releases a statement on some jihadish forums (wow, they even know how to make an account on boards. if they are so sophisticated, even then it took them 4 days to come online and release that statement while the whole world knew before them) that he has been killed. And some Muslims jump in to call them sheikhs etc. I am not too sure. But a great dramatic story, whoever scripted it.

[ابن آل مرة]

lol @ 1:02..."Kalbun Kalbun Ya Obama"

[Woodrow]

this thread is now closed for a massive clean up. all posts that are either off-topic, insulting, attacks against any member or a reply to such are being deleted.

Is it asking too much for everybody to stay civil and on topic?

Thread is now reopened. However I may have missed some posts that still need deleting and may have deleted some that should have been kept. I will go back and relook but the thread is open again.

[YusufNoor]

pardon the source, but:

Top US government insider Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, a man who held numerous different influential positions under three different Presidents and still works with the Defense Department, shockingly told The Alex Jones Show yesterday that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001 and that he was prepared to testify in front of a grand jury how a top general told him directly that 9/11 was a false flag inside job.

Back in April 2002, over nine years ago, Pieczenik told the Alex Jones Show that Bin Laden had already been “dead for months,” and that the government was waiting for the most politically expedient time to roll out his corpse. Pieczenik would be in a position to know, having personally met Bin Laden and worked with him during the proxy war against the Soviets in Afghanistan back in the early 80′s.

still can't figure out what makes THIS the "expedient time."

Pieczenik said that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001, “Not because special forces had killed him, but because as a physician I had known that the CIA physicians had treated him and it was on the intelligence roster that he had marfan syndrome,” adding that the US government knew Bin Laden was dead before they invaded Afghanistan.

“He died of marfan syndrome, Bush junior knew about it, the intelligence community knew about it,” said Pieczenik, noting how CIA physicians had visited Bin Laden in July 2001 at the American Hospital in Dubai.

“He was already very sick from marfan syndrome and he was already dying, so nobody had to kill him,” added Pieczenik, stating that Bin Laden died shortly after 9/11 in his Tora Bora cave complex.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/top-us-g...alse-flag.html

[Trumble]

What we can do is criticize the kaaafir US govt nevertheless for pillaging Muslims for years and decades in their fanaticism of pursuing this man called OBL, who God knows was real or not. US has made us believe that OBL was real, through attacks on her land, we shouldnt fall of these traps.

I'm sorry, but whatever the various points of view on OBL, is there really any remotely credible case that he never existed at all?

All of a sudden, OBL is killed, Pakistani military fails to launch its jets against a mission in which foreign forces infiltrated into its land for more than hour...

I would hardly call ten years 'all of a sudden'! Those 'foreign forces' were US Navy SEALS doing what they do; they were long gone before anyone in authority in Pakistan even knew they were there, let alone had time to authorize a mission by any 'jets'. You think they flew in at 10,000ft with the lights on?!

.. and all of a sudden Qaeda releases a statement on some jihadish forums (wow, they even know how to make an account on boards. if they are so sophisticated, even then it took them 4 days to come online and release that statement while the whole world knew before them) that he has been killed. And some Muslims jump in to call them sheikhs etc. I am not too sure. But a great dramatic story, whoever scripted it.

Again, what reason is there think anybody 'scripted' it? There would be a delay for two obvious reasons. First, enough people (for whom communication between themselves has not been made easy and would not be undertaken casually) had to be satisfied he was actually dead. Which, with the Americans having taken the body and then the PAkistanis guarding the compound wouldn't exactly be easy. Secondly, they would have to consider whether confirming the death was actually in their interests or not.

[LavaDog]

Er, what??? When?? ????? SOURCE ?????

I cant find a source for the 43 surrender but I heard it on the histtory channel which I guess in its self is not always a good source. The german military offered a surrender if the russians were not allowed to enter central Europe. But he told the president they should not consider surrender even though the English were ready to accept. But I can find many about him still refusing the 45 surrender. http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=152

Er.... what??!!!!! SOURCE ?? That's more than the entire number of German combat deaths in WW2.

Right its been a while since I heard about this is was 1.7 million which does not really change much. I did not actually read this page that much so Im not sure if its what I was looking for or not. http://www.rense.com/general46/germ.htm

Patton was in a fairly 'standard' low speed road traffic accident. He was particularly unlucky as regards the injuries he suffered.

I did not mean he was killed or something I ment he was going to tell the government about the things eisenhower was doing before he died.

There were actually two Gulf of Tonkin incidents, the first of which nobody disputes happened - including the Vietnamese.

But the one that escalated things was fake and they have admitted it, thats bad enough. But they say it was false data or something like the false data in Iraq. Ehttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4492190.stm

What have you been smoking?

marlboro reds

[جوري]

marlboro reds

Quit those pls.

:w:

[Trumble]

I cant find a source for the 43 surrender but I heard it on the histtory channel which I guess in its self is not always a good source.

I don't know what you think you heard, but there was no such offer of surrender in 1943, let alone by the 'entire SS', nor even any suggestion of one. The idea is utterly ludicrous.

The german military offered a surrender if the russians were not allowed to enter central Europe. But he told the president they should not consider surrender even though the English were ready to accept. But I can find many about him still refusing the 45 surrender. http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=152

1943 I've already covered. Moving to 1945, the Germans were already beaten (and Hitler was already dead). The offer of 'surrender' to the Western allies was simply a desperate attempt to end the war on one front to concentrate on fighting the Soviets on the other. Eisenhower quite rightly insisted on unconditional surrender, doing otherwise would not only have lengthened the war rather than shortened it (you think the Russians would have turned around and gone home?!), but quite possibly led to a 'hot' commencement of what turned out to be the Cold War. It was also totally politically unacceptable. The only US notable general who expressed any sort of sympathies for such an idea was, ironically enough, Patton. The Germans surrendered unconditionally a whole week later.

Right its been a while since I heard about this is was 1.7 million which does not really change much. I did not actually read this page that much so Im not sure if its what I was looking for or not. http://www.rense.com/general46/germ.htm

"Author unknown" on a website of a professional conspiracy theorist?! C'mon, the literature on WW2 from writers in all countries involved is vast and there isn't the slightest suggestion in any even halfway reputable source any such thing happened. You think the Germans might just have noticed, hmm.. ? Conditions were unpleasant for many Germans who surrendered towards the end of the war simply because of the vast numbers of them, which the Western Allies' supply system simply wasn't set up to deal with. Many Germans moved west solely to surrender to the Americans or British rather than the Soviets, and with good reason. They were released (with the exception of suspected war criminals) when the war ended. The majority of PoW's taken by the Russians never came home. Most died during the war principally as a result of lack of food and medicines made worse by the terrible condition many were in prior to capture. Stalin was in no mood to provide supplies his own forces were short of, and prison camps were located in hostile climates. Most of the survivors were sent home at the end of the war, although some remained in captivity until Stalin's death.

I did not mean he was killed or something I ment he was going to tell the government about the things eisenhower was doing before he died.

He died as a result of his injuries. Again, I can find no evidence for him being about to tell the government anything about what Eisenhower was supposedly doing. Eisenhower had just fired him (although they were friends until that point, he had little choice) as Patton was by then opening advocating using a reconstructed Wehrmacht as a potential ally in an immediate war against the USSR.

But the one that escalated things was fake and they have admitted it, thats bad enough. But they say it was false data or something like the false data in Iraq. Ehttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4492190.stm

If you actually read that article you will see nothing was 'faked', it was all a complete screw-up. As has been pointed out already Johnson was president, not Eisenhower, and the last thing he wanted was significant US military involvement in Vietnam as he was rather less optimistic than his predecessor as to where US intervention might end up. He just found himself with little choice with the situation that then existed; Kennedy had already effectively committed the US to the path it subsequently took.

With all due respect, you really do need to do at least minimal research before presenting such complete nonsense as fact. It does make you rather hard to take seriously on anything else, including matters rather more on topic!

marlboro reds

As the lady said, give them up. They'll kill you.

[LavaDog]

I don't know what you think you heard, but there was no such offer of surrender in 1943

I heard it on a show called secret something or other of world war two on history international. I dont remember that much but it was something about after Italy surrender the germany's armies still in the field offered a surrender if the allies would not let the russians advance. With the 45 refusal I was just showing he still did not want to offer the germans surrender.

Author unknown" on a website of a professional conspiracy theorist

I did not look at it, it was just the first site on the list. I have seen many refrences to the camps and a few times on the history channel lol. However I dont know who you consider a good source of informantion, I dont know if this is any better. http://www.truthinourtime.com/2011/0...ath-camps.html

If you actually read that article you will see nothing was 'faked', it was all a complete screw-up

Right again I just added the article I did not think it would be exactly what I was saying jsut that they changed the story.

With all due respect, you really do need to do at least minimal research before presenting such complete nonsense as fact. It does make you rather hard to take seriously on anything else, including matters rather more on topic!

In the origional post to the other guy I ment that he sent troops to Vietnam. The troops were already there, like the offical story with Osama I believe was at one point he was pissed that we still had troops in saudi arabia. Either way that would be considered imperialism or whatever word you prefer by todays standards. What I was trying to get across was that he was part of the military industrial complex not controlled by it. I dont think we should take anything in that speech seriously. It would be like showing a video of bush saying how the world needs peace and freedom and warning us about the horrors of a endless war.

As the lady said, give them up. They'll kill you.

lol

[KAding]

haha now al-Qaeda on some obscure jihadist forum confirms that OBL has been killed? What is this, so that ppl can now actually believe Al qaida? lol

On one hand al-qaeda is portrayed as a terrorist organization which spews lies and now the media wants us to believe Al qaeda's confirmation of OBLs death?

Look, we have:
1. The Afghan Taliban saying how the"martyrdom of Sheikh Osama bin Laden will give a new impetus to the current jihad against the invaders in this critical phase of jihad" (source)
2, The wife of Bin Laden claiming she lived in Abbottabad with him for the last 5 years and that he was killed (source)
3. The Pakistani government accepting he lived there and was killed
4. The Al-Qaeda statement I already linked too actually claims as much (source)

I simply do not find the alternative explanations very appealing. Unless you contend that, say, the Afghan Taliban are also in on it?

lol... this world is full of .... idiots.

Why thank you ;).

[ابن آل مرة]

Statement of Leadership Council of Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan regarding Martyrdom of Great Martyr Sheikh Osama bin Laden

Jamadi-ul-Thani 02, 1432 A.H, Friday, May 06, 2011
*******
In the Name of Allah, the Most Compassionate, the Most Merciful

"Among the believers, there are men who have been true to their covenant with Allah. Some fulfilled their vow by death and some are still awaiting and they have not changed in the least".
(The Holy Quran, Surah 33. "The Clans", verse 23)
*******
The Caller to Islamic Jihad against the invading infidels, Sheikh Osama bin Laden, embraced martyrdom as per the Will of the Almighty Allah during an abrupt attack by the American invading soldiers. (We are creation of Allah and return to Him.)

The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan extends its deep condolence to the family of the martyr, to his followers and to fighter Mujahideen of the way of Truth and to the Islamic Ummah on this occasion of the great tragedy. We pray to the Almighty Allah to accept, in His Sight, the sacrifice of the martyr. May, the Almighty Allah, salvage the Islamic Ummah from the current situation of crisis due to the impact of the blessing of the sacred Jihad and martyrdom of the martyr.

The martyr took part in the Jihad against the Soviet invasion with great honesty and bravery shoulder to shoulder with the Afghans. He offered such sacrifices in this way that the history of the Islamic Ummah will for ever remain proud of. Sheikh Osama bin Laden was the ardent advocate of the legitimate cause of the first Qibla of the Muslims, the Aqsa Mosque and the occupied Palestine . He was an indefatigable fighter against the Christian and Jewish aggressions in the Islamic World and was not sparing any effort in this cause. The life of this Mujahid, who felt the antagonism against Islam, was full of fatigues, sacrifices and hardships. The history of Islam will always keep their memory alive.

The way of Jihad and the path of defense of Islam is a way fraught with sacrifices and martyrdoms. Like any other follower of this way, Sheikh Osama had been aspiring to attain martyrdom in the cause of the Almighty Allah. He reached his ambition with bravery, dedication and commitment in the last moments of his life.

If the invading Americans and their Allies wallow in this optimism that the morale and ranks of Mujahideen will weaken in Afghanistan and other occupied Islamic countries following the martyrdom of Sheikh Osama bin Laden, it will only show their lack of insight. The sapling of Jihad has always grown, spruced and reached fructification through irrigation by pure blood. The martyrdom of a martyr leads to hundreds more to head to the field of martyrdom and sacrifice.

The current Jihadic movement of Afghanistan sprouted from among the masses and is representative of the aspirations of this proud people. In this land of the braves, a strike by colonialism breeds sympathy and produces (an urge) to strike back. If the Mujahid people were prone to submit to force and tyranny, then is there any gimmick both in terms of military muscles showdown and other devilish conspiracies that has been left by the Americans during the last decade? But the ground realities have it that the use of force brings in opposite consequences here. This popular movement can be bracketed with a spring which, when you pressurize, bounces back with the same intensity.

The Islamic Emirate believes, the martyrdom of Sheikh Osama bin Laden will give a new impetus to the current Jihad against the invaders in this critical phase of Jihad. The tides of Jihad will gain strength and width. The forthcoming time will prove this both for the friends and the foes, if God willing.

The Leadership Council of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan

http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/cont...06/14250.shtml

[Rhubarb Tart]

The fatwah was to do unto them as they do unto others. What is more disturbing is foreigners meddling in other peoples affairs and not expecting a reaction.

The manner in which he did it was justified due to the amount of oppression and the imbalance of power on the side of the oppressed vs oppressor.

He sacrificed comforts of this life, for the rewards of the hereafter. Thats someones Hero, your terrorist!

You will never understand until you either become Muslim, or experience Judgement Day!

:sl:

What do you mean by ‘the manner’?

9/11 was justified?

[Rhubarb Tart]

this thread is now closed for a massive clean up. all posts that are either off-topic, insulting, attacks against any member or a reply to such are being deleted.

Is it asking too much for everybody to stay civil and on topic?

Thread is now reopened. However I may have missed some posts that still need deleting and may have deleted some that should have been kept. I will go back and relook but the thread is open again.

I think you should close this thread now. It has run its course. For all we knew, we could condemning an innocent man or praising a human being that has ordered and organised a hideous crime. We are going round in circle and has resolved nothing.

I doubt people can stay civil.

[Cabdullahi]

Osama Bin Laden: Pentagon releases home videos:



Computer Generated Imagery (CGI)

In one video, Bin Laden is seen watching television

Osama watching TV

This is osama watching TV

Another picture of osama watching TV

n another of the videos, Bin Laden is shown watching a programme about himself on Arabic language television.

He is shown sitting on the floor wrapped in what looks like a blanket or a coat, holding a remote control.

As he watches TV he strokes his beard, which appears much greyer than it does in the propaganda video.

Thats what it is, its all propaganda


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13323060

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

Osama Bin Laden: Pentagon releases home videos

I find this comical...

But the clips' release is part of the ongoing effort by the US administration to convince doubters that Osama Bin Laden was killed in last Monday's raid, says our correspondent.

How are these clips going to clear people's doubts? Release the picture. If there is a group called Al Qaeda, his death and the protests celebrating his death will have already angered the militants. What worse will happen if the picture are released?

[IslamicRevival]

Yeah just seen the videos. Clearly fake

I dont believe a word those swines tell us

[YusufNoor]

actually, after the raid, Cartman was overheard saying, "oh my gosh, they killed Kenny!"

looks like another case of mistaken identity!

[Cabdullahi]

:sl:

Osama Bin Laden: Pentagon releases home videos

I find this comical...



How are these clips going to clear people's doubts? Release the picture. If there is a group called Al Qaeda, his death and the protests celebrating his death will have already angered the militants. What worse will happen if the picture are released?

The first video has no audio....do you know what that means??

It means that they quickly created a CGI and couldn't link the audio because they need more time to make the audio sound real, scary and relevant......

text to speech software + CGI = you can fool anyone

The second video is just not him...its another dude

[Cabdullahi]

Real osama with thin eyebrows

New still picture of osama with thicker eyebrows released

thin eyebrows vs thick eyebrows and droopy eyes


maybe he used to pluck his eyebrows?

Gotta keep believing

[Cabdullahi]

Anybody can do anything

[Woodrow]

The past couple of posts gave me the impetus to do a quick Google search for images of bin Laden. It made me realize I do not know what the real bin Laden looks like or did look like.

Would the real Bin Laden please stand up and be identified.

[Cabdullahi]

Who videos himself watching TV

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

Anybody can do anything

I remember that video. The beginning does not sound like Arabic at all LOL. He looks different here too. Must be a fake. Also, did the US government release this video footage?

I have no idea why would someone record a video of themselves watching themselves on TV...

The past couple of posts gave me the impetus to do a quick Google search for images of bin Laden. It made me realize I do not know what the real bin Laden looks like or did look like.

I just think this is getting more and more comical. I highly doubt these videos are actually real.

]Would the real Bin Laden please stand up and be identified.

*Stands up" :X

[Dagless]

Whether it's him or not; why would they release these clips? People want the assassination video not some home movies. It just seems such a random thing to release.

[IslamicRevival]

Even a blind man would be able to tell those video's are fake lol

You gotta be a dumb imbecile fool of a person to believe they are real

[Predator]

That voice in that last youtube video is clearly not Osama' The language isnt Arabic and its not his voice either

[Ansariyah]

Even a blind man would be able to tell those video's are fake lol

You gotta be a dumb imbecile fool of a person to believe they are real

So true...subhanaAllah how can anyone believe that!

The shaykh mashaAllah was blessed with Good Looks! Theres just no evil on his face.=)

Cant say that about his opponents who are so daym ugleh.

[Dagless]

That voice in that last youtube video is clearly not Osama' The language isnt Arabic and its not his voice either

I think that's the point! It's a spoof, just to show what can be done.

[yas2010]

A friend (non-muslims) made me roll with laughter when she said

" I think OBL ( if he ever existed) has probably joined Elvis, Lord Lucan and Robert Maxwell, in the notorious Bermuda triangle " :D:p:D:p

[GuestFellow]

So true...subhanaAllah how can anyone believe that!

The shaykh mashaAllah was blessed with Good Looks! Theres just no evil on his face.=)

:sl:

Looks can be deceiving. Never judge a book by its cover.

[ابن آل مرة]

[Ansariyah]

:sl:

Looks can be deceiving. Never judge a book by its cover.

I stand corrected

But some people have those evil ugly faces, he doesnt. MashaAllah.

Its the demeanor, the character. The expressions too..ya know wat I meaan?

[GuestFellow]

^ Yes, I know what you mean. He does look like a friendly guy.

[Cabdullahi]

Too many Osama's around

[جوري]

So true...subhanaAllah how can anyone believe that!

The shaykh mashaAllah was blessed with Good Looks! Theres just no evil on his face.=)

[/QUOTE]


I agree with you Allah yer7amo .. If this thread is closed I want those to the closing words of it Allah yer7amo wo yi7sin ilyhi..

:w:

[Cabdullahi]

Ears are as unique as fingerprints, and they do not change with time. The man in the video watching TV is most definitely not Osama Bin Laden.

whatreallyhappened.com

[جوري]

just bring any guy and slap a beard on him.. they bank on the stupidity of many of their people and we've certainly seen quite the sample of them on this forum!

:w:

[Dagless]

Ears are as unique as fingerprints, and they do not change with time. The man in the video watching TV is most definitely not Osama Bin Laden.

Most people's get longer.

[ابن آل مرة]

Rahima Hullah ya Sheikh..for those who don't know, Sheikh's Zuhd was admired by kafir journalists when they met him.

[جوري]

Usama was tall for starters about 6'4 and he was either due to training or kidney problems Allah swt knows best not chubby .. some of the people in those pix have been having too many ladoo

[Trumble]

This thread gets ever more bizarre.

Ears are as unique as fingerprints, and they do not change with time.

Erm... they do. Go look at at your grandparents (or anybody else's) sometime and tell me their ears look the same, or are even the same shape, as they did when they were 30.

The age difference is obviously less than that I mentioned above, and you wouldn't expect a lot change. And not much has, and the shape of the lobes and particularly the ridge where there join the rest of the ear remain quite distinctive. Oh, and take a look at that nose. Looks like the same guy to me.

Usama was tall for starters about 6'4 and he was either due to training or kidney problems Allah swt knows best not chubby .. some of the people in those pix have been having too many ladoo

So he put a little weight on as a consequence of changing from a very active physical lifestyle running around all those Afghan caves and such, to being a couch-potato hiding out in Pakistan, as well as getting older. :? Amazing... you should write a paper on it!

Thanks for the laughs guys, keep them coming!

[جوري]

So he put a little weight on as a consequence of changing from a very active physical lifestyle running around all those Afghan caves and such, to being a couch-potato hiding out in Pakistan, as well as getting older. Amazing... you should write a paper on it! Thanks for the laughs guys, keep them coming!

you're absolutely right trumble .. your genetic makeup evolves as you grow older just like Micheal Jackson's spontaneously .. One day you have an afro nose and generally a black male and the next you're a rich white woman voila ...

[Dagless]

[IslamicRevival]

Hahahahah! ;D

BRILLIANT!

[Ramadhan]

I was gonna ask why post the same photo again, ... until I saw a face on the background LOL!

BTW, call me a geek, but whats the brand of the laptops? They look like HP but they're not, and IBM do not make laptops anymore (theyve sold the laptop division to lenovo), so what's the whitehouse choice of laptop?

[Dagless]

BTW, call me a geek, but whats the brand of the laptops? They look like HP but they're not, and IBM do not make laptops anymore (theyve sold the laptop division to lenovo), so what's the whitehouse choice of laptop?

They are HP (at least the one closest to the camera is).

[Cabdullahi]

This thread gets ever more bizarre.



Erm... they do. Go look at at your grandparents (or anybody else's) sometime and tell me their ears look the same, or are even the same shape, as they did when they were 30.


The age difference is obviously less than that I mentioned above, and you wouldn't expect a lot change. And not much has, and the shape of the lobes and particularly the ridge where there join the rest of the ear remain quite distinctive. Oh, and take a look at that nose. Looks like the same guy to me.




So he put a little weight on as a consequence of changing from a very active physical lifestyle running around all those Afghan caves and such, to being a couch-potato hiding out in Pakistan, as well as getting older. :? Amazing... you should write a paper on it!

Thanks for the laughs guys, keep them coming!

Mr trumble, perhaps you can explain to me if age reversing is possible

Old osama

New osama

Officials say that the changing colour of Bin Laden's beard - dyed black in the addresses but grey when filmed watching himself on television - suggests he was someone who "jealously guarded" his image.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13325595

Sick excuse

Dyeing it with something reddish or yellowish is Sunnah, but dyeing it black is haraam according to the sound opinion, and it was also said that it is makrooh. This ban applies to both men and women, except for the man who is engaged in jihaad. http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/3493

Before you say 'but he was in jihad' he wasnt...this guy who they tell us is bin laden..was chilling at his mansion.. watching eastenders on television.....thats no jihad

A self conscious bin laden who dyes is hair with just for men dye....watches himself on TV reminiscing about the good old days when he was younger and more handsome making him feel more and more insecure.....time to buy more and more just for men dye and olay anti-aging cream.

Joke is on you Mr trumble

[Cabdullahi]

I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. Osama Bin laden

http://www.public-action.com/911/oblintrv.html

...............

[ابن آل مرة]

Bro, there is no doubt that he was aware of the attacks, and he personally met Khaled Sheikh Mohammed[may Allah hasten his release] and some of the 19 members. Khaled Sheikh was the mastermind no doubt. Also, the CIA never accepted or denied about Osama bin Laden being the head leader of 9/11.

Now the question is if these attacks were permissible or not. Personally, I wont give my opinion or elaborate on it because I already know the debate will never stop regarding this, and both sides will refuse to accept the truth with open mind since they were bombarded with what is right and what is wrong by the media, and by the so called scholars and speakers of Islam.

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:


By Noam Chomsky


.....how we would be reacting if Iraqi commandos landed at George W. Bush’s compound, assassinated him, and dumped his body in the Atlantic.

Uncontroversially, his crimes vastly exceed bin Laden’s, and he is not a “suspect” but uncontroversially the “decider” who gave the orders to commit the “supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole” (quoting the Nuremberg Tribunal) for which Nazi criminals were hanged: the hundreds of thousands of deaths, millions of refugees, destruction of much of the country, the bitter sectarian conflict that has now spread to the rest of the region.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle28045.htm

[sabr*]

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Intentionally posting lies a person knows to be false to further a position is wrong. Creating false information is wrong.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 33:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "The signs of a hypocrite are three:

1. Whenever he speaks, he tells a lie.

2. Whenever he promises, he always breaks it (his promise ).

3. If you trust him, he proves to be dishonest. (If you keep something as a trust with him, he will not return it.)"

[Trumble]

Mr trumble, perhaps you can explain to me if age reversing is possible

Alas, age reversing is not possible. I'm sure, though, that the blurb on the bottle didn't break any advertising laws.

Joke is on you Mr trumble

The joke, I'm afraid, is on those who don't pay attention. Perhaps rather than concentrating on something that can be changed in a matter of seconds, you might take heed of earlier comments regarding his weight. Take a look at 'old' Osama and 'new' Osama again.. which one do you think had plenty of those Laddoo to hand, hmm?

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

Laddu tastes horrible.

Old osama

New osama

Hmmm

Both look similar to me. He could have dyed his beard. The old Osama has a longer beard. How does he sound like in the new video?

[sabr*]

Peace to you:

Trumble:

Is it possible for you to provide your objective in this thread? What is your point of view and what are you attempting to convey? If a poster doesn't have a purpose, point of view, or objective the posts are meaningless.

We are not attacking you just attempting to understand the purpose for your posts in this thread?

[Dagless]

A self conscious bin laden who dyes is hair with just for men dye....watches himself on TV reminiscing about the good old days when he was younger and more handsome making him feel more and more insecure.....time to buy more and more just for men dye and olay anti-aging cream.

Joke is on you Mr trumble

I think it's another one of those big things which don't add up. Most people I know (Muslims and non-Muslims) reckon it's a different guy. Bear in mind it's only been a few years since his last video where he looks completely different. So in the first few years of living in Pakistan he stayed in shape and didn't put on weight, then in the last few years he decided to pile on the pounds and ignore the sunnah about his beard? :S

[Cabdullahi]

I think it's another one of those big things which don't add up. Most people I know (Muslims and non-Muslims) reckon it's a different guy. Bear in mind it's only been a few years since his last video where he looks completely different. So in the first few years of living in Pakistan he stayed in shape and didn't put on weight, then in the last few years he decided to pile on the pounds and ignore the sunnah about his beard? :S

you can put Prosthetic makeup on..that will make you look exactly like Osama bin laden

[Dagless]

you can put Prosthetic makeup on..that will make you look exactly like Osama bin laden

Didn't they try this on Mythbusters and it didn't really work close up? Especially with a camera pointed right at your face. Cgi maybe, but make-up?

[Trumble]

Is it possible for you to provide your objective in this thread? What is your point of view and what are you attempting to convey? If a poster doesn't have a purpose, point of view, or objective the posts are meaningless

I'm curious as to your 'purpose' or 'objective' in directing that question at me, in particular? A large part of this thread has concentrated as to whether, when, where, and by whom/what OBL was killed. My posts have been as relevant to that anybody else's. The point regarding ears, for example, was complete nonsense and I called it as such.

My 'point of view' is that the evidence clearly shows OBL to have been killed by US Special Forces a week ago, as claimed. I am, to be honest, somewhat baffled at the refusal of so many to accept this fact as no player of importance (his wife, US government, Pakistan government, any flavour of Taliban or other militant Islamists) has so far denied it. I suppose my secondary point of view, pacifistic as I usually am, is "good". The world is better off without him. I do not accept that capturing him would have been preferable, not because of any bloodlust or disconcern for the formalities of justice, but because it is obvious to anybody who gives it more than a few seconds thought that pursuing and conducting such a trial would inevitably have resulted in levels of injuries and death far greater than those directly attributable to the alternative. In other words, while I would have been quite happy for OBL to have had a free and fair trial rather than the summary execution this clearly was, I do believe the price for that in innocent lives would have been too much to pay.

Good enough for you?

[Cabdullahi]

Didn't they try this on Mythbusters and it didn't really work close up? Especially with a camera pointed right at your face. Cgi maybe, but make-up?

It could be CGI

[GuestFellow]

I do not accept that capturing him would have been preferable, not because of any bloodlust or disconcern for the formalities of justice, but because it is obvious to anybody who gives it more than a few seconds thought that pursuing and conducting such a trial would inevitably have resulted in levels of injuries and death far greater than those directly attributable to the alternative.

I'm glad you have made yourself clear but I disagree with your post. There are two main reasons why I preferred Osama Bin Laden to be captured.

First, the US would have been able to obtain valuable intelligence from this man. This may have lead to other suspects being arrested, may have prevented further attacks and he could have commented on other attacks, like the London or the Madrid Bombings.

Second, he is, technically, still innocent. He has not been put on trial. He never claimed to have been behind 911, though he did support it. Now, we will never know who was truly behind the attacks, other than the 19 hijackers. No matter how much some people hate this man, you will never know whether he was behind these attacks. Do you believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty?

He was unarmed when his house was attacked, so arresting him may have been possible.

I find it worrying when some people start supporting the killings of some individual suspected of committing a crime, without a full trial. If some people support this, then the government can be at an advantage and kill certain individuals without trial. Do you know what this can lead to?

Then again, if Osama was captured, it is likely he would have been tortured to give a false confession and the trial would not have been fair.

[جوري]

The joke, I'm afraid, is on those who don't pay attention. Perhaps rather than concentrating on something that can be changed in a matter of seconds, you might take heed of earlier comments regarding his weight. Take a look at 'old' Osama and 'new' Osama again.. which one do you think had plenty of those Laddoo to hand, hmm?

only in the west can a poor black boy die as a rich white woman, and a rich tall Arabic man die a short, chubby Pakistani ...

is it a case of they all look the same to you?

all the best

[Trumble]

I'm glad you have made yourself clear but I disagree with your post.

As you are quite entitled to do. Thank you for being polite in doing so!

First, the US would have been able to obtain valuable intelligence from this man. This may have lead to other suspects being arrested, may have prevented further attacks and he could have commented on other attacks, like the London or the Madrid Bombings.

They might have been able to obtain it, true. But like most else I've got to say on this subject, it's a matter of practicalities. I hardly think OBL was the 'talking' type, at least voluntarily. He was neither a personal coward, nor stupid. Any attempt to get him to talk by other means would have almost certainly prejudiced the trial beyond salvation, and any sort of plea bargain would have been totally unacceptable politically. And what bargain would OBL seek? If it was life without parole or death (as a martyr, as he and others would perceive it), undoubtably he would have chosen the latter. In short, I doubt there would have been much to add to the documents and tapes etc found in the compound.

Second, he is, technically, still innocent. He has not been put on trial. He never claimed to have been behind 911, though he did support it. Now, we will never know who was truly behind the attacks, other than the 19 hijackers. No matter how much some people hate this man, you will never know whether he was behind these attacks. Do you believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty?

I do, yes. One does not justify the other (see below) but also do not share your doubts as to his guilt regarding 9/11.

He was unarmed when his house was attacked, so arresting him may have been possible.

He, personally, was unarmed, true and it may well have been possible, yes.

I find it worrying when some people start supporting the killings of some individual suspected of committing a crime, without a full trial. If some people support this, then the government can be at an advantage and kill certain individuals without trial. Do you know what this can lead to?

Yes, I do. However, although I mentioned a few seconds, I have considered the matter for rather longer, and consider this case to be unique. Firstly, my concern regarding more death and injury was not for the SEALS. Had they been ordered to capture OBL they would have attempted to do so; they are professionals, they know their job and they know the risks. But think of the consequences if OBL HAD been captured? Does anyone seriously think no attempt to get him released would be made? Obviously actively 'springing' him was unlikely, but how many people would be kidnapped as potential exchanges? A 'dirty bomb' set off, with the threat of another is he wasn't released? A suicide bomb a day until he was released? Who knows. If he was convicted, the process would just continue for years even the event of a death sentence (which tends to take a while to be carried out in the US). And how, if he was was executed, would his 'martyrdom' have been marked around the world? My opinion, and its only that, is that many more would have died that way. Principles are all well and good, but the consequences of following them cannot always be set aside, and sometimes they may be 'trumped' by others. In this case, I think that applies to the right to life of potential future victims.

Then again, if Osama was captured, it is likely he would have been tortured to give a false confession and the trial would not have been fair.

I don't think there is the remotest chance he would have been tortured. As nobody would believe a confession was genuine anyway unless it was given in full public view at the trial, it could only prejudice the trial in OBL's favour. Plus, just because you can get away with 'water-boarding' someone suitably anonymous in Guantanamo doesn't mean you can with the highest profile prisoner since Rudolf Hess. Confessions have minimal significance in (Western) courts these days anyway. The slightest hint they were obtained by duress and the judge will throw them out, and if somebody IS actually guilty there is no need to 'confess' at all. Just plead guilty. Their only real use is in saving police time and clearing up loose ends.

[CosmicPathos]

mythbusters, God. a group of pseudointellectuals getting together to do what they feel is experimentation par excellence to refute myths that people hold so they can feel a bit better about their themselves and their pot bellies if only for few minutes on prime time.

Mr Trumble has got a weak eyesight along with a weak ability to think. Didnt know things come in packages: buy 1 get 1 free

[Dagless]

mythbusters, God. a group of pseudointellectuals getting together to do what they feel is experimentation par excellence to refute myths that people hold so they can feel a bit better about their themselves and their pot bellies if only for few minutes on prime time.

Don't be bitter, it's called entertainment. I'm sure with time and effort you can be a pseudo-intellectual too ;)

[CosmicPathos]

Don't be bitter, it's called entertainment. I'm sure with time and effort you can be a pseudo-intellectual too ;)

thanks but no thanks. dont want a pot-belly which comes with pesudointellect

[Souljette]

Asalamualayakum
Innalillahi ina ilayhir raji'un Sheikh Osama's death has been confirmed even by Al Qaeda so i think it is true.. May Allah (S.W.T) grant him Jannah and because of him there is a whole different rise of Mujahideen

[Cabdullahi]

Asalamualayakum
Innalillahi ina ilayhir raji'un Sheikh Osama's death has been confirmed even by Al Qaeda so i think it is true.. May Allah (S.W.T) grant him Jannah and because of him there is a whole different rise of Mujahideen

Where and who is Alqaeda???!

'Bin Laden dead long before US raid'
http://presstv.com/detail/178898.html


4 people in the house....osama had no weapons......the raid took 40 minutes

40 minutes??? what were they doing for 40 minutes?

[ابن آل مرة]

I'm glad you have made yourself clear but I disagree with your post. There are two main reasons why I preferred Osama Bin Laden to be captured.

Akhi, I respectfully disagree with you there.. Why would any Muslim want a brother to be captured? You think they will treat him like a human if they were to capture him? Innocent Muslim brothers are in Gitmo, tortured, and water boarded. What makes you think that they will not do the same or even worse if the Sheikh was incarcerated.

[Tyrion]

Akhi, I respectfully disagree with you there.. Why would any Muslim want a brother to be captured? You think they will treat him like a human if they were to capture him? Innocent Muslim brothers are in Gitmo, tortured, and water boarded. What makes you think that they will not do the same or even worse if the Sheikh was incarcerated.

Regardless of who he was or what religion he followed, he murdered innocents. Even you acknowledge this. That's enough reason for him to be captured and brought to some kind of justice. The better question is, why would any Muslim blindly defend someone for doing wrong just because they're Muslim? His final judgement lies with God, but come on... I don't understand how you can say that "Sheikh bin Laden" murdered innocents and yet is still worthy of our respect...

[GuestFellow]

Akhi, I respectfully disagree with you there.. Why would any Muslim want a brother to be captured? You think they will treat him like a human if they were to capture him? Innocent Muslim brothers are in Gitmo, tortured, and water boarded. What makes you think that they will not do the same or even worse if the Sheikh was incarcerated.

Salaam,

I'm not saying there are going to treat him nicely. Whoever is suspected of committing a criminal offence should be brought to trial. I would have preferred a neutral country to put him on trial if possible.

I will respond to Trumble's post later...my computer shut down by itself and I lost my response. :(

[Cabdullahi]

Regardless of who he was or what religion he followed, he murdered innocents. Even you acknowledge this. That's enough reason for him to be captured and brought to some kind of justice. The better question is, why would any Muslim blindly defend someone for doing wrong just because they're Muslim? His final judgement lies with God, but come on... I don't understand how you can say that "Sheikh bin Laden" murdered innocents and yet is still worthy of our respect...

Daily UMMAT: You have been accused of involvement in the attacks in New York and Washington. What do you want to say about this? If you are not involved, who might be?

USAMA BIN LADEN: In the name of Allah (God), the most beneficent, the most merciful. Praise be to Allah, Who is the creator of the whole universe and Who made the Earth as an abode for peace, for the whole humankind. Allah is the Sustainer, who sent Prophet Muhammad (saw) for our guidance. I am thankful to The Ummat Group of Publications, which gave me the opportunity to convey my viewpoint to the people, particularly the valiant and momin (true Muslim) people of Pakistan who refused to believe the lies of the demon (Pakistani military dictator General Pervez Musharraf).

I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam. All that is going on in Palestine for the last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of God upon the United States and Israel.

http://www.public-action.com/911/oblintrv.html

[Tyrion]

Daily UMMAT: You have been accused of involvement in the attacks in New York and Washington. What do you want to say about this? If you are not involved, who might be?

USAMA BIN LADEN: In the name of Allah (God), the most beneficent, the most merciful. Praise be to Allah, Who is the creator of the whole universe and Who made the Earth as an abode for peace, for the whole humankind. Allah is the Sustainer, who sent Prophet Muhammad (saw) for our guidance. I am thankful to The Ummat Group of Publications, which gave me the opportunity to convey my viewpoint to the people, particularly the valiant and momin (true Muslim) people of Pakistan who refused to believe the lies of the demon (Pakistani military dictator General Pervez Musharraf).

I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam. All that is going on in Palestine for the last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of God upon the United States and Israel.

http://www.public-action.com/911/oblintrv.html

I don't know if that interview is real, although it would be nice if it was... Still, Ahmed has already admitted that he believes bin Laden to have been behind attacks that killed civilians. That's why I was responding to him.

[ابن آل مرة]

I don't know if that interview is real, although it would be nice if it was... Still, Ahmed has already admitted that he believes bin Laden to have been behind attacks that killed civilians. That's why I was responding to him.

Bring forth your proof where I said that. Perhaps, you should work on your reading skills a bit more,eh?

[ابن آل مرة]

Salaam,

I'm not saying there are going to treat him nicely. Whoever is suspected of committing a criminal offence should be brought to trial. I would have preferred a neutral country to put him on trial if possible.

The last thing they would ever do is extradite him to a 'neutral' country so he can have a fair trial. Nothing less than a military court trial would satisfy the savage, pathetic, patriotic Americans.

I will respond to Trumble's post later...my computer shut down by itself and I lost my response. :(

Sorry to hear about that, I usually don't reply to trolls.

[Tyrion]

Bring forth your proof where I said that. Perhaps, you should work on your reading skills a bit more,eh?

Lol, here you go:

Posts 51 and 52 of this very thread, 4th page:

Since when Jihad is not part of religion? He was one of the best leaders of Jihad, and Jihad is part of Islam. And the Sheikh pioneered it.

So do you acknowledge that "Sheikh" bin Laden was the one who orchestrated the attacks on America? Is this what you mean by Jihad?

Of course he was behind it, and that was nothing compare to the number of Muslims killed everywhere else. But I don't agree with targeting civilians, at same time, yes, The Mujahideen do make mistakes, but that does not mean we will pinpoint their mistakes 24/7 to justify the occupation of Kuffar in Iraq, Afghanistan. So brother, stop paying attention to propaganda by Western media.

[CosmicPathos]

I don't know if that interview is real, although it would be nice if it was... Still, Ahmed has already admitted that he believes bin Laden to have been behind attacks that killed civilians. That's why I was responding to him.

so what about the civilians killed by your beloved country of which you are a proud countryman i.e. America?

[ابن آل مرة]

Lol, here you go:

Posts 51 and 52 of this very thread, 4th page:

I think you didn't read rest of my posts where I cleared off the info regarding that. Just couple days after I wrote that post, a brother told me what happened, and I was wrong about OBL being the main leader behind 9/11.

http://www.islamicboard.com/showthre...95#post1435795

[Tyrion]

so what about the civilians killed by your beloved country of which you are a proud countryman i.e. America?

Wow, so now we're targeting the fact that I happen to be American? :p

[ابن آل مرة]

so what about the civilians killed by your beloved country of which you are a proud countryman i.e. America?

Its a very dangerous disease which 'American' Muslims are diagnosed with. They will rush and defend the honor of their president who murders thousands of Muslims, but they will hesitate to say Ameen to a dua for a Sheikh is who is labeled as a terrorist by the kuffar!

[Trumble]

4 people in the house....osama had no weapons......the raid took 40 minutes

40 minutes??? what were they doing for 40 minutes?

Well, maybe they raided the fridge for a quick meal, having got a bit peckish on the way in? Or, just maybe, they were searching the place as thoroughly as they were able for intelligence information?! :rollseyes

There were actually 22 or 23 people present in the compound according to the Pakistani authorities, including 13 children (none of whom were hurt).

[جوري]

Well, maybe they raided the fridge for a quick meal, having got a bit peckish on the way in? Or, just maybe, they were searching the place as thoroughly as they were able for intelligence information?!

yuppers and look at the fruits of that intelligence-- a chunky Osama watching himself on TV playing sonic the hedgehog..
I am sure a little girl watching her siblings or father killed isn't hurtful at all!

[CosmicPathos]

Wow, so now we're targeting the fact that I happen to be American? :p

well, I do agree that you, as an individual, had no control over deciding which country you would be born in, Allah swt decided for you to be a born on a piece of land in His world which is called America. But you have something in your control. This something is open-mindedness, devoid of any nationalism, and critique of the crimes conducted by the people representing your land. Many American reverts to Islam actually began to hate the fact that they happen to be Americans (American nationality), gave up their citizenship and moved out. While it is true that all the lands belong to Allah swt but all the governments, Allah swt has nothing to do with them.

If you cannot renounce the "Americaness" within you, at least you can critique the people who are defining what is "Americaness."

[Cabdullahi]

uday and qusay dead = bodies showcased to journalists

Saddam Hussein dead = execution seen all around the world

Osama bin laden 'worlds most wanted man' = nada, instead we get some fake..silly ass home videos

[GuestFellow]

The last thing they would ever do is extradite him to a 'neutral' country so he can have a fair trial. Nothing less than a military court trial would satisfy the savage, pathetic, patriotic Americans.

:sl:

It is very likely he would be tried by a military tribunal. These military tribunal are inexperienced in terms of handling cases and do not have a system of judicial precedent. This puts the defendant at an disadvantage, so I would not like to see OBL to be put on trial in these tribunals, but a proper court.

Sorry to hear about that, I usually don't reply to trolls.

Let's not accuse other members of being a troll. If you suspect a member is one, then report them.

As you are quite entitled to do. Thank you for being polite in doing so!

It's fine.

They might have been able to obtain it, true. But like most else I've got to say on this subject, it's a matter of practicalities. I hardly think OBL was the 'talking' type, at least voluntarily.

Well not all suspects are going to talk and OBL is not going to be the first or the last suspect to make it difficult to reveal information. I'm sure the police have a variety of lawful interrogation techniques and the courts can always draw adverse conclusions where the suspect does not answer or refuses to comment on certain issues.

In short, I doubt there would have been much to add to the documents and tapes etc found in the compound.

I suspect that there is more evidence. You said it yourself that he is not stupid. He would not have have all the documents and tapes to be put into one compound. There is a possibility there may have been additional documents, tapes and other forms of evidence hidden elsewhere.

Firstly, my concern regarding more death and injury was not for the SEALS. Had they been ordered to capture OBL they would have attempted to do so; they are professionals, they know their job and they know the risks. But think of the consequences if OBL HAD been captured? Does anyone seriously think no attempt to get him released would be made? Obviously actively 'springing' him was unlikely, but how many people would be kidnapped as potential exchanges? A 'dirty bomb' set off, with the threat of another is he wasn't released? A suicide bomb a day until he was released? Who knows.

So you suspect if he was captured, some of his supporters would use unlawful violence in order to pressure the US government for him to be released? This is possible but it depends on whether the threat or use of unlawful violence is significant or not. As for kidnappings, it depends on the person who is kidnapped.

There was a US contractor that was captured in Iraq and was beheaded when the US refused to release prisoners from Guantanamo bay.

If he was convicted, the process would just continue for years even the event of a death sentence (which tends to take a while to be carried out in the US).

He would have been tried in a military tribunal. I doubt he would be tried by traditional courts...

And how, if he was was executed, would his 'martyrdom' have been marked around the world? My opinion, and its only that, is that many more would have died that way.

To be captured, put on trial and sentenced to death? I doubt it. I think they would carry out attacks against western troops, embassies or target particular individuals. If they want to be killed, they would want to be killed in battle, because it would be seen as more "heroic"...

Principles are all well and good, but the consequences of following them cannot always be set aside, and sometimes they may be 'trumped' by others. In this case, I think that applies to the right to life of potential future victims.

Yes, general principles do have exceptions. However, the innocent until proven guilty principle is an absolute right, according to European Convention on Human Rights...I'm sure the US laws have similar views.

To make this exception can put vulnerable individuals at risk of being killed. Are you saying that the presumption that someone is innocent until proven guilty is rebutted where potential future victims are at risk of being killed? A better way to protect future civilians from harm is to arrest the individual, put him on trial and sentence him if guilty. If he's not guilty, then the person who has committed the crime is still out there and may commit further offences.


I will respond to your last comment later...

[Trumble]

Of course he was behind it

Bring forth your proof where I said that. Perhaps, you should work on your reading skills a bit more,eh?

I think you didn't read rest of my posts where I cleared off the info regarding that. Just couple days after I wrote that post, a brother told me what happened, and I was wrong about OBL being the main leader behind 9/11.

Pure gold... ;D;D;D;D;D;D;D;D;D;D

[Perseveranze]

Osama bin Laden is many things to many people, particularly when one considers his life over the course of the last 30 years. A one time a hero of the mujahideen in Afghanistan, and until recently, the world’s most wanted man.

The assassination of Osama bin Laden has posited questions relating to whether or not the US has been vindicated in its policies relating to arbitrary detention and extrajudicial killings.

According to a number of sources, there have been suggestions that one of the most vital clues leading up to his identification, came from a detainee held at Guantanamo Bay. There is no way of testing the veracity of this claim as it may be a covert attempt at providing legitimacy to those who claim that Guantanamo Bay has been a success story for the US. Whatever the truth of the matter and in time we may learn more, out of the many thousands of false confessions that were extracted under torture and abuse, the legacy of Guantanamo is one that has tarnished the reputation of the US and only undermined its proclaimed values.

The incident is also an extension of the Obama doctrine – kill, don’t detain. From the perspective of the administration of justice, the targeted killing of bin Laden has been counterproductive in that there can never be an independent judicial process to test the multitude of charges laid at the door of the accused as happened with the alleged war criminals at Nuremberg. Whilst it may not have served the propaganda value of a dead bin Laden who could be depicted as the master of every heinous terrorist atrocity since he fell out with the CIA, it would have made more sense to attempt to capture the man and provide him with due process, a strong message that a western conception of justice has some meaning. That has been the rationale behind the war crimes tribunals held at the Hague in relation to defendants who committed genocide. If the rule of law permits such crimes to be prosecuted then it could have withstood the anguish of unearthing the wrongdoings of Bin laden.

Regardless of whether or not the principles of necessity and proportionality were adhered to from an international law perspective, the order to kill bin Laden and not detain him has sent the wrong message in terms of the continuation of this conflict – that justice can only be achieved through the barrel of a gun.

Osama bin Laden is many things to many people, particularly when one considers his life over the course of the last 30 years. A one time a hero of the mujahideen in Afghanistan, and until recently, the world’s most wanted man.

Western history books may seek to remember him as an evil man, but as we know history is written by the victors and there is no end to the war in sight. However, if we have learnt anything from political violence, it is that nothing exists within a vacuum. Even according to those within the US, such as former CIA chief of the bin Laden unit, Michael Scheuer, he portrayed other traits which were praiseworthy, ‎"...pious, brave, generous, intelligent, charismatic, patient, visionary, stubborn, egalitarian, and, most of all, realistic...". The question that remains unanswered is what made a man with those qualities become the most wanted on the planet – dead or alive. The answer is crucial if we are to call a halt to the hatred that will bellow out of the cauldron boiling away now in the AQ franchise.

Like so many of those who chose violence as a means of effecting change, inevitably the deaths of civilians taint the very causes they seek to strive for. While many Muslims around the world sympathised with the desire to remove western interference from Muslim lands, the means to be used differed greatly, with the large majority of Muslims being against the targeting of civilians.

In the end, the death of Osama bin Laden has served his cause and branded him forever in the minds of his enemies and supporters – gunned down and free or shot like a hoodlum in the wild west. So we need to ask ourselves, is Osama bin Laden really dead, or are has the shoot to kill policy merely created the grounds for spawning thousands more bin Ladens ready to take his mantle?

The cycle of violence in the War on Terror is one which has seen both sides constantly using new tactics and means to gain the upper hand on the other. With Obama’s message to the world being that there is no room to provide due process, the conflict has become more deadly than ever. Far too many will see his actions as a sign that there are no more rules and its kill or be killed – it may be a time to celebrate for many but for the informed the fear is that we are all dispensable collateral in a war not of our choosing.

http://www.cageprisoners.com/our-wor...en-more-deadly

[Trumble]

It is very likely he would be tried by a military tribunal. These military tribunal are inexperienced in terms of handling cases and do not have a system of judicial precedent. This puts the defendant at an disadvantage, so I would not like to see OBL to be put on trial in these tribunals, but a proper court.

Something of a dilemma - which, if anything, adds to the force of my argument. If you consider the possibilities;

1. 'Normal' trial by jury in the US. Where would you find a jury? They had enough trouble with OJ Simpson, let alone OBL.

2. Military tribunal. Result always likely to be seen as contrived and 'unfair'. And the same problem only worse, unbiased miltary judges would be even harder to find than a jury.

3. International court of some kind. Probably the best option, but legally dubious in terms of jurisdiction. There is no doubt that, legally, any trial should take place in the US according to US law and anything else would almost certainly be politically unacceptable.

Well not all suspects are going to talk and OBL is not going to be the first or the last suspect to make it difficult to reveal information. I'm sure the police have a variety of lawful interrogation techniques and the courts can always draw adverse conclusions where the suspect does not answer or refuses to comment on certain issues.

I'm not quite sure of your point there. What part of that doesn't apply to any criminal suspect?

I suspect that there is more evidence. You said it yourself that he is not stupid. He would not have have all the documents and tapes to be put into one compound. There is a possibility there may have been additional documents, tapes and other forms of evidence hidden elsewhere.

Absolutely. I just think it unlikely in the extreme OBL would have revealed where they were.

So you suspect if he was captured, some of his supporters would use unlawful violence in order to pressure the US government for him to be released? This is possible but it depends on whether the threat or use of unlawful violence is significant or not. As for kidnappings, it depends on the person who is kidnapped.

There was a US contractor that was captured in Iraq and was beheaded when the US refused to release prisoners from Guantanamo bay.

I rather more than 'suspect' it, I consider it a virtual certainty. It certainly does depend on the person(s) kidnapped (whether it should is a different issue). It would certainly need, with all due respect to the dead man and his family, to be someone more high profile than that contractor. I consider the repeated suicide bomb scenario more probable, though.

To be captured, put on trial and sentenced to death? I doubt it. I think they would carry out attacks against western troops, embassies or target particular individuals. If they want to be killed, they would want to be killed in battle, because it would be seen as more "heroic"...

I think you may have missed my point here. I was assuming he had been captured alive; the choice then being between 'life' or 'death'. There's another legal dilemma, BTW.. a jury trial would presumably have to be held in New York, or at least according to New York law. The death sentence would therefore have not been an option.

Yes, general principles do have exceptions. However, the innocent until proven guilty principle is an absolute right, according to European Convention on Human Rights...I'm sure the US laws have similar views.

I'm not quite sure that's really the issue. It can easily be argued around by classifying OBL as an 'enemy combatant' or similar, and hence a legitimate target. Were his status assumed as 'civilian', it is no more legal to execute him without due process than to assume him guilty rather than innocent. I'm not denying there are huge moral issues here, BTW, or that they necessarily have right or wrong answers.

To make this exception can put vulnerable individuals at risk of being killed. Are you saying that the presumption that someone is innocent until proven guilty is rebutted where potential future victims are at risk of being killed? A better way to protect future civilians from harm is to arrest the individual, put him on trial and sentence him if guilty. If he's not guilty, then the person who has committed the crime is still out there and may commit further offences.

I'm not suggesting that as a general principle. Your scenario suggests that the trial would be used by the authorities as a way of establishing whether the accused was guilty or innocent. That isn't even true in the case of 'common' criminals, it's very rare that the accused is dramatically established to be innocent in Perry Mason style. They are usually released because guilt cannot be proven 'beyond reasonable doubt', and the police rarely devote more than lip-service to finding the 'actual' culprit as they are pretty certain they know that already... take OJ as a paradigmatic example. In the case of OBL, I find the idea he might have been found not only not guilty, but demonstrated to be innocent to be improbable in the extreme. Not impossible, true, but I'm weighing up alternatives here.

[Chavundur]

uday and qusay dead = bodies showcased to journalists

Saddam Hussein dead = execution seen all around the world

Osama bin laden 'worlds most wanted man' = nada, instead we get some fake..silly ass home videos

Another point of view ; If USA captured OBL alive, When We consider revolution process in Arab world, That situation would risk alliance between KSA and USA in middle of the oil prize management. As far as I understand, America would never let that happen in no way. Nature of today's economy would punish that generator of unexpected results. This is just my opinion.

[Anas Hasan]

ehhhhh.
Back to The non-ending topic.
First of all, plz:
1- Don't judge someone from uncertain information
2- Read Osama's biography, because this is the only certain info about him, and it gives you an idea about his thoughts and his personality.
3- For the uncertain info, talk about and judge the action regardless who did it.

about his biography, here is it (in arabic):

**sorry couldn't post the link**


A glance:
"ولد أسامة بن لادن سنة 1377 هجرية 1957 ميلادية لأم سورية دمشقية ،وكان ترتيبه بين إخوته وأخواته الثالث والأربعين وترتيبه بين الذكور الحادي والعشرين من أبناء المقاول المشهور محمد عوض بن لادن.

والده

كان والد أسامة ، محمد عوض بن لادن ، قد وصل إلى جدة من حضرموت في حدود سنة 1930 ميلادية، ويذكر عنه من عرفه أنه كان قمة في المثابرة و العصامية و الاعتماد على النفس و لذلك لم تمض سنين قليلة حتى تحول محمد بن لادن من مجرد حمال في مرفأ جدة البسيط إلى اكبر مقاول إنشاءات في المملكة. إضافة إلى مثابرته فقد كان جريئا ومستعدا للمجازفة حيث تمكن من خلال هذه الجرأة من إقناع الملك سعود أنه الأقدر على المشاريع الصعبة وذات طابع التحدي و تمكن خلال فترة الملك من بناء علاقة جيدة مع كبار العائلة الحاكمة بما فيهم فيصل الذي كان أميرا آنذاك. وعندما حصل الخلاف المشهور بين فيصل و سعود كان من ضمن من أقنع الملك سعود بالتنحي لصالح فيصل.............."

source : Islamicnews.net

[Gator]

Well, now he is dead. My reaction is that he was a fading symbol anyway and have been encouraged by the uprisings in Iran, Tunia, Egypt, Syria, Bahrain, Yemen, etc that seem to reflect the direct opposite of his and al-queda's goals. Hopefully some good can come out of that.

[sabr*]

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

It appears to be a great ignorance and falsehood being perpetrated in these forums.
Some actually attempt to disparage the practicing Muslims who had no decision on where Allah created them.

The majority of exchange students, immigrants, refuges, etc we personally meet are migrating from the so-called Muslim countries in waves and express no desire to return to country of origin. (Who perform Jammat Salah at Masjid)

Let us state that those so-called Muslims that think they have a sacred right to Islam because many were born in corrupt countries that accept billions of dollars from America rarely if ever criticize and condemn their country of origin.

The online Jihadist doesn’t participate in rising up and changing the corrupt conditions in those puppet countries. And many of their parents have sacrificed and migrated to safe lands so their offspring can be online and create a Jihadist persona.

There are endless practicing Muslims who are American born who have joined in the following campaigns and conflicts:

Afghanistan, Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya, Kashmir, etc (Google it)

When the online Jihadist attempt to disparage practicing Muslims in America a qualification is required.

There is also second and third generation Muslims in the West who were born into Islam.

It would be interesting to review the country of origin of the weak faith and poor adab displayed within this forum.

Intelligence would provide understanding that generalizing and grouping all Muslims in one category is not wise.

We understand the transgressions practiced by Muslims from so-called Muslim countries when they visit, study
and migrate to the West is no reflection on the dedicated practicing Muslims with Taqwa and Iman worldwide.

That same view should be applied to the dedicated practicing Muslims anywhere. Generalizing and disparaging practicing Muslims anywhere is shameful.

The arrogant will neglect the words and commands of Allah! The practicing Muslims in word and deed will reflect.
__________________________________________________ ________

Surah Hujurat 49:11

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا يَسْخَرْ قَومٌ مِّن قَوْمٍ عَسَى أَن يَكُونُوا خَيْرًا مِّنْهُمْ وَلَا نِسَاء مِّن نِّسَاء عَسَى أَن يَكُنَّ خَيْرًا مِّنْهُنَّ وَلَا تَلْمِزُوا أَنفُسَكُمْ وَلَا تَنَابَزُوا بِالْأَلْقَابِ بِئْسَ الاِسْمُ الْفُسُوقُ بَعْدَ الْإِيمَانِ وَمَن لَّمْ يَتُبْ فَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ (49:11)
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo la yaskhar qawmun min qawmin AAasa an yakoonoo khayran minhum wala nisaon min nisain AAasa an yakunna khayran minhunna wala talmizoo anfusakum wala tanabazoo bialalqabi bisa alismu alfusooqu baAAda aleemani waman lam yatub faolaika humu alththalimoona

49:11 (Y. Ali)O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong.
__________________________________________________ ________

Surah Hujurat 49:13

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَاكُم مِّن ذَكَرٍ وَأُنثَى وَجَعَلْنَاكُمْ شُعُوبًا وَقَبَائِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوا إِنَّ أَكْرَمَكُمْ عِندَ اللَّهِ أَتْقَاكُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ خَبِيرٌ (49:13)
Ya ayyuha alnnasu inna khalaqnakum min thakarin waontha wajaAAalnakum shuAAooban waqabaila litaAAarafoo inna akramakum AAinda Allahi atqakum inna Allaha AAaleemun khabeerun

49:13 (Y. Ali)O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).
__________________________________________________ ________

Surah Hujurat 49:14


قَالَتِ الْأَعْرَابُ آمَنَّا قُل لَّمْ تُؤْمِنُوا وَلَكِن قُولُوا أَسْلَمْنَا وَلَمَّا يَدْخُلِ الْإِيمَانُ فِي قُلُوبِكُمْ وَإِن تُطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ لَا يَلِتْكُم مِّنْ أَعْمَالِكُمْ شَيْئًا إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ (49:14)
Qalati alaAArabu amanna qul lam tuminoo walakin qooloo aslamna walamma yadkhuli aleemanu fee quloobikum wain tuteeAAoo Allaha warasoolahu la yalitkum min aAAmalikum shayan inna Allaha ghafoorun raheemun

49:14 (Y. Ali)The desert Arabs say, "We believe." Say, "Ye have no faith; but ye (only)say, 'We have submitted our wills to Allah,' For not yet has Faith entered your hearts. But if ye obey Allah and His Messenger, He will not belittle aught of your deeds: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

This post was submitted with the best intentions and the best construction should be used when reading it.

Jazakumullahu Khair

[Cabdullahi]

Guys do you want a good laugh check the comments on this video, it the osama home video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB0ftf53JYs

Best rated comment

I like to watch myself. I like it SO much, that sometimes I watch myself on TV. And when I'm really really into it, I have someone film me, while I watch myself on TV, so that later on, I can watch myself watching myself on TV.
drutter 35 minutes ago

haha

[IslamicRevival]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB0ftf53JYs
Comment from Youtuber

THIS IS FAKE THE REAL OSAMA HAD A XBOX 360 & A 42 INCH SCREEN ! ! And his FPS gamer tag was 'T4L!B4NN3D' -> ( talibanned )

Hahahahaha! :D Comedy gold!!!!

[Ansariyah]

Wow, so now we're targeting the fact that I happen to be American? :p

I thought u were of Afghani Origin:hmm:

Or is being American all u are now?

[Zafran]

I thought u were of Afghani Origin:hmm:

Or is being American all u are now?

salaam

what does it matter if hes american or afghani? hes a muslim thats what matters.

peace

[Ansariyah]

salaam

what does it matter if hes american or afghani? hes a muslim thats what matters.

peace

It does matter.

Surah al-Hujurat (49:13)

[GuestFellow]

I thought u were of Afghani Origin:hmm:

Or is being American all u are now?

Salaam,

Well his parents are from Afghanistan and moved to America. He's an Afghan American. He was either born in Afghanistan and moved with his parents or he was born in America.

[Cabdullahi]

afghani brothers are soldiers

[Ansariyah]

afghani brothers are soldiers

And the sistas MashaAllah=)

[aamirsaab]

They dropped him in the sea right.

They dropped megatron in the sea.

We all know how that turned out.

[Cabdullahi]

And the sistas MashaAllah=)

i'm not entirely sure about that

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Hardly a surprise :hmm:

Osama bin Laden mission agreed in secret 10 years ago by US and Pakistan

US forces were given permission to conduct unilateral raid inside Pakistan if they knew where Bin Laden was hiding, officials say

The US and Pakistan struck a secret deal almost a decade ago permitting a US operation against Osama bin Laden on Pakistani soil similar to last week's raid that killed the al-Qaida leader, the Guardian has learned. The deal was struck between the military leader General Pervez Musharraf and President George Bush after Bin Laden escaped US forces in the mountains of Tora Bora in late 2001, according to serving and retired Pakistani and US officials. Under its terms, Pakistan would allow US forces to conduct a unilateral raid inside Pakistan in search of Bin Laden, his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, and the al-Qaida No3. Afterwards, both sides agreed, Pakistan would vociferously protest the incursion.

"There was an agreement between Bush and Musharraf that if we knew where Osama was, we were going to come and get him," said a former senior US official with knowledge of counterterrorism operations. "The Pakistanis would put up a hue and cry, but they wouldn't stop us." The deal puts a new complexion on the political storm triggered by Bin Laden's death in Abbottabad, 35 miles north of Islamabad, where a team of US navy Seals assaulted his safe house in the early hours of 2 May. Pakistani officials have insisted they knew nothing of the raid, with military and civilian leaders issuing a strong rebuke to the US. If the US conducts another such assault, Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani warned parliament on Monday, "Pakistan reserves the right to retaliate with full force."

Days earlier, Musharraf, now running an opposition party from exile in London, emerged as one of the most vocal critics of the raid, terming it a "violation of the sovereignty of Pakistan". But under the terms of the secret deal, while Pakistanis may not have been informed of the assault, they had agreed to it in principle. A senior Pakistani official said it had been struck under Musharraf and renewed by the army during the "transition to democracy" – a six-month period from February 2008 when Musharraf was still president but a civilian government had been elected.

Referring to the assault on Bin Laden's Abbottabad compound, the official added: "As far as our American friends are concerned, they have just implemented the agreement." The former US official said the Pakistani protests of the past week were the "public face" of the deal. "We knew they would deny this stuff." The agreement is consistent with Pakistan's unspoken policy towards CIA drone strikes in the tribal belt, which was revealed by the WikiLeaks US embassy cables last November. In August 2008, Gilani reportedly told a US official: "I don't care if they do it, as long as they get the right people. We'll protest in the National Assembly and then ignore it."

As drone strikes have escalated in the tribal belt over the past year, senior civilian and military officials issued pro forma denunciations even as it became clear the Pakistani military was co-operating with the covert programme. The former US official said that impetus for the co-operation, much like the Bin Laden deal, was driven by the US. "It didn't come from Musharraf's desire. On the Predators, we made it very clear to them that if they weren't going to prosecute these targets, we were, and there was nothing they could do to stop us taking unilateral action.

"We told them, over and again: 'We'll stop the Predators if you take these targets out yourselves.'" Despite several attempts to contact his London office, the Guardian has been unable to obtain comment from Musharraf. Since Bin Laden's death, Pakistan has come under intense US scrutiny, including accusations that elements within Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence helped hide the al-Qaida leader.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...-pakistan-deal

What now for the "war on terror" after Osama Bin Laden's death?



Following the assassination of Osama bin Laden, Chris Nineham from Stop the War Coalition is interviewed about the likely repercussions for the west's wars and intervention in the Middle East region and North Africa. Filmed and edited by Anupam Pradhan and Keith Halstead.

[Mr.President]

weather he is dead or alive I don't care all I can say is "To Allaah we belong and to Him is our return"
I dont know he is a terrorist or a good muslim
I cannot say anything about an issue which I don't have any proper knowledge

thts my opinion on this matter !

[Cabdullahi]

[IMG]

[/IMG]


i didnt make this...took this from a different website

[CosmicPathos]

^ lol hyhyghygyfgygygyiuuiiuiuiuiui

[Cabdullahi]

^ lol hyhyghygyfgygygyiuuiiuiuiuiui

cool innit..

[GuestFellow]

^ LOL...is that Hilary Clinton holding an ice cream... o_o

I feel like having ice cream now...

[جوري]

^ LOL...is that Hilary Clinton holding an ice cream... o_o

I feel like having ice cream now...

it does explain why she needs that corset...

[Cabdullahi]

Some more funny comments on the youtube video of osama watching tv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB0ftf53JYs

looks like they paid a homeless guy to watch tv
BanditV8racer 22 hours ago

If I'm ever hauled into court on heinous charges, I'm going to request the evidence NOT BE PRESENTED AT THE RISK IT MAY BE INFLAMMATORY!!
AINT2COMMON 25 minutes ago

I don't quite understand how the most wanted man in the world, being tracked 24/7 by the most powerful and richest intelligence agencies around the globe, as well as the full might of the U.S. military, had the time and safety to sit down quietly and watch television.
xxmaximus213xx 3 hours ago

Let us pretend that this is bin Laden, how is this evidence that bin Laden is actually dead? This is merely evidence that bin Laden watched TV.

Thank you AP for filing FOIA request to get the actual evidence to support the claim that bin Laden is dead.
Shaymoi3 1 hour ago

lies , lies and more lies...makes for a great platform to run with for a second term the media didnt care if they offended the muslim community when they showed saddam being hanged .. why all the secrecy surrounding osamas pictures?..i wont reply to any comments , this is a one sided opinion...
ODMASTA 2 hours ago

This is a Fox-Jews Video !!!
1LaneOnly 6 hours ago

this isnt even him.
polak4lyf 8 hours ago

This video has FAKE! Written all over it smh that's not even him check out guy ears there super big n doofy looking Osama ears are small n elf shape looking smfh
koodleslol 8 hours ago

This is obviously made up. Think about it America. Why the hell would someone be taping Osama in his own home just flipping through channels. And how is this of any relevance?

AlejandroIndia 18 hours ago

This is billal a pakistani merchant guy . he is back from work and having a quality time at his home with his familly getting ready for the next day . they just killed an innocent hard working tax paying man and dumped him in water . murderers .
123ertr 18 hours ago

So the pentagon barges into his house, starts filming him and Bin Laden just casually watches TV?? This makes no sense.
cutiecat923 18 hours ago

if you watch closely the blanket says made in usa .
123ertr 18 hours ago

FAGGOT C.I.A FAILED VIDEO !!! FAKE !!! HAHAHA
limauze 18 hours ago

This brother is totally relaxed being filmed and everything. If you are some one with a 25 million bounty on your head , you willnot act like this .
123ertr 18 hours ago

You have got to be ****ting me right? Are you kidding me AP. What the, I dont even......are you ****ing kidding me with this fake ass ****.
TheRealMrDanks 21 hours ago

USA: King of bull**** and false-flags.
ItalianoAmericano 21 hours ago

HAHAHAHAHAHA....at this clip. Seriously USA, if you want to fake and lie about something, then for goodness sake make it look a tiny bit real. This video and drowning Osama is as real as flying elephants.

KhanzSupremacy 21 hours ago

is that bin laden?
aykel27 21 hours ago

This is the fakest and gayest thing I've ever seen.
Leonhart11 21 hours ago

come on people tell me why would there own people be so darn stupid to record binladen for no ****ing reason? LMAO its obviously fake and the old man doesnt even look like binladen

MrMutherfker 21 hours ago

bin laden is not dead if he is watching news footage of his own death
A13XHTV 21 hours ago

faker than obama
BRYANx503 22 hours ago

[Dagless]

cool innit..

Meh did you have to scribble over it in black like that...

[Cabdullahi]

Meh did you have to scribble over it in black like that...

it was a little inappropriate...milk sachets bulging out and stuff...so i did the best i could.. to protect my brothers in Islam.

[marwen]

Let us pretend that this is bin Laden, how is this evidence that bin Laden is actually dead? This is merely evidence that bin Laden watched TV.

......hah......

[Bobiraptor]

i didnt make this...took this from a different website

*chuckles* very funny. Can anyone name all the Justice League members in this picture?
This was obviously created by someone with a pro-west perspective, or am i missing a subtle jab somewhere?

[Bobiraptor]

it was a little inappropriate...milk sachets bulging out and stuff...so i did the best i could.. to protect my brothers in Islam.

I've had a look at the original, and it's really not at all 'bulging milk sachets' (lol) but i have no problem with your censorship of it anyway.

[Ali Mujahidin]

:sl:

This is one story that is getting weirder and weirder. Seriously, if this is taken to a court of law, it would be thrown out for lack of evidence. How can you have a murder without a corpse?

The way I see it, there are a number of possibilities:

1. Osama will no longer exist. Either he is really dead or his identity has been totally changed but whatever actually happened, Osama, as an identity, does not exist anymore. Unless Obama has just set himself up to be made the Stupidest President in the History of US of A. Which is exactly what will happen, if Osama is not really dead and turns up somewhere thumbing his nose at Obama. So I accept that Osama will no longer exist. Not in this world, any way.

2. Osama could have been killed some time back. Which may be the reason why the US authorities cannot show his corpse. Saying that Osama had been buried at sea is just another way of saying that no one can check the body because there is no body to be checked. If Osama had been killed some time back, why release the news only now? Please note that reactions from the Muslim community around the world seem rather muted. Is it because that so few people really care that Osama is dead? Or is it because his lieutenants who could have roused the masses have already been neutralized? Neutralized like being killed or captured? So perhaps Osama could have been killed some time back and the US authorities are only releasing the news now after making sure that those people who could have launched a fiery response to the news have already been taken care of.

WaLLahu aklam.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Bin Laden sons protest to US over 'arbitrary killing'

The sons of Osama Bin Laden have criticised the US authorities for carrying out his "arbitrary killing". A statement given to the New York Times newspaper said the family wanted to know why the al-Qaeda leader had not been captured alive. Relatives who survived the 2 May raid in Pakistan should be freed, it said.

Another statement appeared on a jihadist website saying the burial of Bin Laden at sea "demeans and humiliates his family". Osama Bin Laden was shot dead by US special forces during a raid on his home in the Pakistani town of Abbottabad. US officials have said that while Bin Laden was unarmed he had given no indication to the US troops that he wanted to surrender.

Attorney General Eric Holder has said that the killing was lawful and "an act of national self-defence".

Humiliation

The statement printed by the New York Times was attributed to Bin Laden's fourth son, Omar Bin Laden, who has repeatedly distanced himself from his father's ideology. It said that in absence of a body or photographic evidence, the family were not convinced he was dead. But if he was dead, it said, they were questioning "why an unarmed man was not arrested and tried in a court of law so that truth is revealed to the people of the world".

They argue Bin Laden's killing had broken international law and that figures such as former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic had been given the chance to stand trial. "We maintain that arbitrary killing is not a solution to political problems and crime's adjudication as justice must be seen to be done." The family said they were demanding an inquiry into why Bin Laden was "summarily executed without a court of law" and demanded the release of his three wives and several children, who are believed to be in Pakistani custody.

The statement also said the US decision to bury Bin Laden's corpse at sea had deprived the family of performing religious rites. A slightly different version of the report was published on a jihadist websites, said the SITE Intelligence Group.
It said US President Barack Obama was "legally responsible" for clarifying "the fate of our father" and that the sea burial "demeans and humiliates his family and his supporters".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13354995

Another interesting interview

Changing Osama stories 'bizarre': Ramadan

[Cabdullahi]

I've had a look at the original, and it's really not at all 'bulging milk sachets' (lol) but i have no problem with your censorship of it anyway.

Maybe you are desensitized, maybe you've seen too many milk sachets??.....maybe only silicone sachets have an effect on you??

I censored it because it was immodest.

[ayesha.ansari]

Thanks for all of you to participate in this thread and shared all valuable knowledge and information about a person who is real or fake. ALLAH better knows the truth.

[Bobiraptor]

Maybe you are desensitized, maybe you've seen too many milk sachets??.....maybe only silicone sachets have an effect on you?? I censored it because it was immodest.

:) As i said, i have no problem with your censorship.

[Pygoscelis]

Thanks for all of you to participate in this thread and shared all valuable knowledge and information about a person who is real or fake. ALLAH better knows the truth.

:D I really like the way you put that.

[ProudMuslimSis]

Can anyone shed light on the Islamic guidelines for burial at sea?
I am sorry if this has already been discussed and I maybe have missed it.

[Ramadhan]

If a person died on land, they should be buried on land and within as little time as possible after giving them thorough bath and wrapped in clean unstitched white cotton or linen clothe and giving shalah janazah, now that is Islamic burial. Buria at sea is possible if the person died on a ship.

So it's a whole lots of BS the US govt said about giving him Islamic burial when they killed him on land a thousand of kilometers away from the sea. This is another example of how far the US govt is willing to lie, even if more than a billion muslims understand it is clearly BS. Only non-muslims americans of course lap it all up. Just like the lapped up the lies for Afghan and Iraq invasions.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace


don't know if already posted here .



What If You Read This Headline?



Breaking News - Barack Obama Is Dead

By Fahad Ansari

Pakistani officials said Obama was shot in the head after resisting.
Mr Abdullah said "no Muslims were harmed".

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle28063.htm

[IslamicRevival]

Suprised no one has mentioned the bomb blast that struck Pakistan today and killed at least 70 people, injured many more

At least 70 people have been killed and 80 others injured in twin blasts at a military training center in Pakistan's northwestern city of Charsadda.

"Seventy people have been killed," said the police chief of the northwestern Charsadda district, Nisar Khan Marwat.
"Sixty-five of them are from the paramilitary police. Five dead bodies of civilians were taken to Shabqadar hospital," the police chief added.

The death toll is still expected to rise since the injured are reported to be in critical condition and medical items at the city's hospital are in short supply.

Marwat said the attacks occurred when newly-trained cadets, wearing civilian clothes, were getting into buses to go on a 10-day leave after the end of their training course.

This is the bloodiest attack since May 2, when al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was allegedly killed by US special forces in Abbottabad.
The Taliban has claimed responsibility for the assault. It had vowed earlier to avenge the death of bin Laden by attacking government buildings as well as official figures.

"This was the first revenge for Osama's martyrdom. Wait for bigger attacks in Pakistan and Afghanistan," Pakistani Taliban spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan told AFP by telephone from an undisclosed location."
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/179636.html

This is the very reason why i will never support Al Qaeda
Since when was killing and injuring innocent victims permitted in Islam?
Absolutely disgusting!

[yas2010]

Salaam Br Thank you for sharing this article.

A very sad day :( Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un . May Allah (swt) grant mercy upon all those affected.

This is the very reason why i will never support Al Qaeda

Can you tell me what is Al Qaeda?

JK :)

[YusufNoor]

inna lillahi wa inna lilayhi rajiun.

[Bobiraptor]

"This was the first revenge for Osama's martyrdom. Wait for bigger attacks in Pakistan and Afghanistan," Pakistani Taliban spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan told AFP by telephone from an undisclosed location."

Al Qaeda will sometimes claim responsibility for things not of their doing. Bin Laden also did that. But regardless of who was the cause of this attack, this is yet another tragedy committed against humans who have nothing at all to do with anything. Just young people beginning their lives in the service of others.

[MustafaMc]

Quotes from the site Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth where 1,497 architectural and engineering professionals have signed a petition calling for an independent investigation into the events of 9/11.

AE911Truth Statement on Alleged Recent Death of Osama bin Laden

Reports of bin Laden's death, even if true, explain NONE of the overwhelming evidence for the explosive controlled demolition of the three World Trade Center skyscrapers on 9/11.

Osama bin Laden’s death does not begin to address these disturbing facts:

1) WTC Building #7, a 47-story high-rise not hit by an airplane, exhibited all the characteristics of classic controlled demolition with explosives:
2) In the the aftermath of WTC7's destruction, strong evidence of demolition using incendiary devices was discovered:
3) The Twin Towers' destruction exhibited all of the characteristics of conventional destruction by explosives, and some unconventional characteristics:
4) Neither the Twin Towers nor WTC7 exhibited any of the characteristics of destruction by fire:

Just as conviction of a murderer without a body is disparaged, conviction and murder of the accused without evidence, or a body, should be condemned.

Any explanation given for the worst terrorist attack on American soil should be examined closely. Claims made without evidence should be discarded. We at AE911truth will continue that approach with respect to the WTC destruction and we hope that everyone else will follow the same approach with respect to the worst terrorist attack in American history.