Sh. Yasir Burhami on the Death of Sh. Usama Bin Laden

[ابن آل مرة]

Shaykh Yasir Burhami

All praise is due to Allah and may the peace and blessings be upon the Messenger of Allah.

The entire world is congratulating Obama and the US…As for myself, then I congratulate Usama – if what they say is true about his death – for indeed, you have obtained what you desired!

You did not leave your palaces and your wealth behind to go the rugged mountaintops and caves except to attain this ending. I also congratulate all the Mujahideen for indeed your companion was killed with his head held high, not submitting to the enemies of Allah. He died honourably in a time of change and revolution…I ask Allah to accept him from amongst the martyrs.

Having said that, we did differ with him in many issues, such as where the priority of our work should lie, the permissibility of the actions that some who ascribe themselves to him have done in the Muslim world as well as the west such as 9/11 etc. Despite that, I cannot hold myself but to be absolutely certain that he wanted victory for Islam and to restore honour for the Muslims and that he was despised by the enemies of this religion and someone who loved Jihad in the way of Allah, whether he was correct or mistaken in his opinions.

Celebrations are being seen in the west due to his death, but perhaps celebrations are in store in the heavens for his arrival – if the news is true – for Allah (swt) says:

“And never think of those who have been killed in the cause of Allah as dead. Rather, they are alive with their Lord, receiving provision. Rejoicing in what Allah has bestowed upon them of His bounty, and they receive good tidings about those [to be martyred] after them who have not yet joined them - that there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.” (3:169-170)

Bush explicitly declared his war of crusades and as a result occupied Afghanistan and Iraq for the expensive price of the blood of our martyrs and injured, but despite that the unequivocal reality is that the spirit of Jihad is still alive in the Ummah and that it will not surrender to its enemy…

Indeed for the spirit of Jihad to remain, it sets a heavy cost upon us and this incident has only proven to actualise the promise of the Prophet (saw) who said: “This religion will continue to remain established with a group from the Muslims fighting until the hour is established.” (Muslim), and I consider that the Taliban and those who are fighting with them to be from this group.

Moreover, the assassinations and murders that the US have become so accustomed to that are done in the name of terrorism, that is what they have ended up doing so evidently as if other states have no sovereignty over their own lands!

Let us therefore know the scales the west use in the likes of Gitmo, Abu Ghuraib and the secret prisons in Afghanistan to determine how they understand and implement human rights! Or is it the case that they do not consider Muslims to fall under the species of ‘humans’? And I think that is the case!

A lot of pain and effort did he sacrifice, however it was all done in order to actualise the words of Allah:

“Thus do We expound the revelations that the way of the criminals may be manifest.” (6:55).

So let every person know his standing and the truth of his loyalty.

There remains to be said: the right to resist occupation and for the people to assist in that has been sanctioned by the shariah and even international law. The Muslim nation will not stop due to the death of a person - who had such distinguishing leadership skills in the field of Jihad – their path to realize their freedom and their desire to live by their faith. However we reiterate that it is compulsorily to adhere to the principles of the shariah with regard to the rulings of Jihad. Thus we should not break any covenants, nor mutilate or kill any women or children even if they - the disbelievers - were to do so.

As for them throwing his corpse into the sea as they claim, then this is something that cannot harm him, rather it will only raise his ranks and status by the persmission of Allah. However, what does become apparent by such an incident is the ugly face of America, which knows no sanctity to life or death!

This in reality will only bolster people’s love for him even amongst those who condemned some of his actions. This will also increase their hatred for America even amongst those who were sympathetic towards them due to the sufferings they faced.

Finally, we ask Allah (swt) to accept him from the martyrs and that He accept his good deeds and that He overlooks his mistakes he had.

Original Arabic here: موقع أنا السلفى | هنيئًا لك "أسامة".. هنيئًا لكم أيها المجاهدون

Jazaahullaahu khayran - the person who translated it.

[titus]

Oh the irony.

So it is permissible, even heroic, to target civilians if it is a Muslim doing it. In fact they spend eternity in paradise, yet killing Muslims is horrible beyond belief.

We must understand, according to this logic, that Muslims can do no wrong and Muslims are to be rewarded by God for killing as many non-Muslims as they can. How gratifying.

How pathetic.

[Perseveranze]

Bin Laden was in the right to fight Kuffar invading Muslim lands, but killing innocents is where the line had to be drawn. Let Allah(swt) judge him in the end.

[جوري]

Do we actually know if Ben Laden killed civilians? Everything that comes to you courtesy of the west is nicely doctored up a la mode of Hollywood.. how fast we forget the story of Tillman .. killed heroically fighting the evil taliban when the actuality is he was killed by fellow morons in a friendly exchange since pig eating beer chugging twits are best suited to pose nude or make others pose nude for pix while collecting their body parts as souvenirs ..

fact of the matter is the only truth we know of ben laden is that he didn't like western forces in Muslim land and gave his monumental wealth up to fight that..

they just need to create a cloud of miasma so folks won't question all the carnage and misery they've unleashed upon the world!

:w:

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[Abu Zainab]

Oh the irony.

So it is permissible, even heroic, to target civilians if it is a Muslim doing it. In fact they spend eternity in paradise, yet killing Muslims is horrible beyond belief.

We must understand, according to this logic, that Muslims can do no wrong and Muslims are to be rewarded by God for killing as many non-Muslims as they can. How gratifying.

How pathetic.

Now wait a minute. Jihad is about fighting the enemy...the invading army....the soldiers. It has nothing to do with killing civilians like some of your people do (read collateral damage) or even damage property or trees. Just because a few people believe it is permissible doesn't change anything and Islaam will always remain the truth. No matter what you say.

I cannot believe you say these things when you know its YOUR people who killed millions of innocent people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki....in Afghanistan...in Iraq.

And about this 9-11 of yours can you say amen to my prayer here: "May God curse, destroy and shame every single human being who was responsible (and cover up) for the attacks on 9-11"?

My point is all people in the world whether they are Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus or whatever want to live a peaceful life. Only a few nut-cases who are hungry for power and money do all these nasty things and blame it on someone else. There are bad people on all sides, so how come you blame the most beautiful religion on earth.

God has given you intelligence...just think...be logical...this guy even if he wanted to could not have carried out those attacks...its impossible...period. When we say its an inside job we don't say the Americans did it..we just say its a few power-hungry heartless fools (yes they are fools - they don't know what God will do to them) who did it and they surely have the resources for doing that. And they have the biggest war machine on their side as well which is the media.

Now you will reply by saying you are blaming a handful of misguided Muslims as well...WRONG...the media has done its best to bring Islaam into the picture (72 houris anyone!!). This kind of deliberate propaganda hurts sincere Muslims you know. Now when we talk about the so called "conspiracy theories" we never say "the Christians did it" or "the Americans did it"...its those neocons...don't you get it. Its their "divide and rule" policy. They just want Ahmed and John to have a fight so they can have control over everything.

I am sorry if sounded so random...I was just trying to speak my heart out. Like all sincere Muslims around the world I was deeply saddened by what happened on that day and the moment I saw the plane hit one of the towers on BBC I knew it was the work of some enemies of Islaam.

Just imagine...a guy who is going to heaven (to get his 72 houris) ...he is the smartest person on earth to stage such a big attack on the most secure country on earth and doesn't even have the common sense to realize its gonna kill millions and millions of his fellow Muslims because of this single act. BTW, the "millions of millions" is NOT exaggerated. You won't get that on your FOX news. So who benefited from 9-11? Hunh? WHO??

[titus]

Now wait a minute. Jihad is about fighting the enemy...the invading army....the soldiers.

To some people, yes. Others believe something different and one of those people was Bin Laden. A quote from a fatwah he wrote in 1998:


The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim.

Does that jibe with your definition?

If not, then do you agree with the people who say he should be honored?

[جوري]

To some people, yes. Others believe something different and one of those people was Bin Laden. A quote from a fatwah he wrote in 1998:


The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim.

Does that jibe with your definition?

If not, then do you agree with the people who say he should be honored?

How about you find me his original quote and in Arabic? I am starting to be sick of what you spew!

[titus]

How about you look it up yourself since you are more familiar with sites in Arabic than I am. It is the fatwah that he issued in 1998.

Do that then get back to me and tell me what a hero this man was.

[جوري]

How about you look it up yourself since you are more familiar with sites in Arabic than I am. It is the fatwah that he issued in 1998.

Do that then get back to me and tell me what a hero this man was.

you're the one who introduced it into the topic as factual, I am not here to do your homework for you!
put up or shut up!

[titus]

Original Text

Once again I eagerly await your extremely intelligent and mature response.

[جوري]

Original Text

Once again I eagerly await your extremely intelligent and mature response.

I see no original quotes from ben laden in there furthermore the article says to wage war on Zionists and Fundies!

would you recognize intelligence? I rather think you need to attach a bib to catch all that drool?

[titus]

I see no original quotes from ben laden in there furthermore the article says to wage war on Zionists and Fundies!

The fatwah was issued by Bin Laden. If your translation is different than every other that I have seen please tell us where they differ, especially the part in which all other translations say he says to kill all Americans. Put up or shut up, to repeat your own post.

[جوري]

The fatwah was issued by Bin Laden. If your translation is different than every other that I have seen please tell us where they differ, especially the part in which all other translations say he says to kill all Americans. Put up or shut up, to repeat your own post.

The fatwa isn't issued by bin laden in fact the title says ' naas bayen aljabha al'islmya al3alamya' aljabha al'islamya doesn't = bin laden!
and the war is waged on fundies and Zionists who are in the occupied territory!

Yeah, Indeed put up or shut up!

[titus]

Afraid to do it? I understand.

[جوري]

Afraid to do it? I understand.

to do what you under educated droll? is that your response for being cornered into the rat hole where you best belong? why not stick it into google scholar and highlight the part where ben laden comes to play? is just to appease your own sensibilities if you have any!

[MustafaMc]

Do we actually know if Ben Laden killed civilians?

Exactly! I have not seen proof that he was responsible for what he was accused of perpetrating. Note that the Taliban asked for such proof before the US invasion and occupation of Afghanistan. How did he implode the 47-story building WTC7 (Salomoan Brothers) and plant unexploded nanothermite and its signature iron-rich micro-spheroid reside in the WTC dust?

[جوري]

Exactly! I have not seen proof that he was responsible for what he was accused of perpetrating. Note that the Taliban asked for such proof before the US invasion and occupation of Afghanistan. How did he implode the 47-story building WTC7 (Salomoan Brothers) and plant unexploded nanothermite and its signature iron-rich micro-spheroid reside in the WTC dust?

I tell you if you remotely think a negative thought of them purely based on the heinous crimes they've committed it automatically has you on an FBI most wanted, a terrorist, and you just need to pad that with enough islamists/extremists/wahabbist to give it that extra oomph.. like the tawdry romance novels they write it is all about evocative wording nothing factual whatsoever.. God forbid you dig deeper and use your brain you conspiracy theorist!

:w:

[Perseveranze]

Afraid to do it? I understand.

Bin Laden never admitted to being behind 9/11. He might have praised it, but that's different from actually doing it. For all you know, the American's just pinned a random person.

[جوري]

Bin Laden never admitted to being behind 9/11. He might have praised it, but that's different from actually doing it. For all you know, the American's just pinned a random person.

“The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle),”
http://www.ethicsdaily.com/rabbi-adv...-war-cms-14410

[Dagless]

Oh the irony.

So it is permissible, even heroic, to target civilians if it is a Muslim doing it. In fact they spend eternity in paradise, yet killing Muslims is horrible beyond belief.

We must understand, according to this logic, that Muslims can do no wrong and Muslims are to be rewarded by God for killing as many non-Muslims as they can. How gratifying.

How pathetic.

This made me lol. The only irony is that this is coming from someone part of a nation which has killed millions of civilians in countless wars. If you added up all the victims of Al Qaeda it wouldn't equal the number of innocent people killed in the search for Bin Laden alone.

I know Bin Laden never admitted to 9/11 but does anyone know if he admit to the embassy attacks in Africa? or any attack which killed innocents?

[titus]

I know Bin Laden never admitted to 9/11 but does anyone know if he admit to the embassy attacks in Africa? or any attack which killed innocents?

If he did and the quote was posted then Bin Laden supporters would simply come and say he never said it and that it is all part of the conspiracy. Makes it pointless to bring them up, much less provide links to them. But yes, he did admit his involvement in those attacks.

For those that want to excuse Bin Laden, or even worse make him a hero, please look at how many Muslims have died at the hands of Al Qaeda over the last 10 years.

You want to make him a symbol of oppression against Muslims? Go ahead, but you are lionizing a mass murderer of Muslims. His philosophy was to kill Muslims who did not share his views, and his people killed more Muslims than the US over the last 10 years. What a hero, huh?

[جوري]

You want to make him a symbol of oppression against Muslims? Go ahead, but you are lionizing a mass murderer of Muslims. His philosophy was to kill Muslims who did not share his views, and his people killed more Muslims than the US over the last 10 years. What a hero, huh?

That is what you and your ilk parrot, but has no basis in actuality!

all the best

[titus]

Really? Then please give us specifics as to what this man accomplished that makes him a Muslim hero to you.

All I have seen so far is "He stood up against the West" but no specifics, yet when specifics are given showing that he targeted innocents you say it was all fake. So tell us exactly what is the truth and what is fake. What makes this man a true martyr?

[Cabdullahi]

Really? Then please give us specifics as to what this man accomplished that makes him a Muslim hero to you.

All I have seen so far is "He stood up against the West" but no specifics, yet when specifics are given showing that he targeted innocents you say it was all fake. So tell us exactly what is the truth and what is fake. What makes this man a true martyr?

He left the luxurious life...to put his life on the line for the sake of Allah...fighting the soviets at a time when all the Texas people loved him

[titus]

Come now. He fought the Soviets? What else. Surely he is not the hero because he fought the Soviets. What makes him so popular to all you posters?

[جوري]

Really? Then please give us specifics as to what this man accomplished that makes him a Muslim hero to you.

All I have seen so far is "He stood up against the West" but no specifics, yet when specifics are given showing that he targeted innocents you say it was all fake. So tell us exactly what is the truth and what is fake. What makes this man a true martyr?

I never said he was hero or a Villain. Only God knows of his hosts on this earth.. it isn't up to repuke cons and fundies to tell us who is righteous and who isn't!!.. I have summed up in a few words all I know of him, he gave up his wealth for what he believed as opposed to say someone like alwaleed bin talal-- what you think you know of him is meaningless and inconsequential, so you should quit your psychobabble I am so sick of it and especially those Muslims who leave me hate PMs thinking somehow coaxing kaffirs further in their hypocrisy is going to afford them the good life.. Just go celebrate his death as others celebrate pictures displaying their sick sadomasochism .. the streets of NYC are filled of your ilk go show some solidarity!

[titus]

I never said he was hero or a Villain.

No, you just said that the only thing you knew about him was that he gave up his wealth to fight the West. It's not hard to read between the lines. Others on this forum are much more forthcoming with their reverence for this man.

Just go celebrate his death as others celebrate pictures displaying their sick sadomasochism .. the streets of NYC are filled of your ilk go show some solidarity!

I have already stated my disdain for "celebrating" his death. Maybe you have me confused with someone else? Then again maybe you were not addressing me in the second half of that paragraph. It is hard to tell sometimes as you tend to ramble in your posts.

[جوري]

No, you just said that the only thing you knew about him was that he gave up his wealth to fight the West. It's not hard to read between the lines. Others on this forum are much more forthcoming with their reverence for this man.



I have already stated my disdain for "celebrating" his death. Maybe you have me confused with someone else? Then again maybe you were not addressing me in the second half of that paragraph. It is hard to tell sometimes as you tend to ramble in your posts.

you don't like additives and preservatives inferred or supplemented to what you write though it is indeed obvious to the naked eyes (though you've never been able to support what you write with truthful documentation) outside of your hysterical corporate media, yet at the same time feel so free to attribute the additives and preservatives of your choosing to others?
I don't hate Usama and have no reason to, I do pray for mercy upon him and I have made prayers as such since his death, not only is it human, it is also the right thing to do, for surely I hope upon my death and regardless of how heinous my crimes intentional or not that someone would do the same for me!
There is you and the west to hate him and I think that is plenty, it need not transfer to us either.. We have different manners, interests, beliefs and agendas than yours!

all the best

[Dagless]

If he did and the quote was posted then Bin Laden supporters would simply come and say he never said it and that it is all part of the conspiracy. Makes it pointless to bring them up, much less provide links to them. But yes, he did admit his involvement in those attacks.

I don't really care if people accept the sources or not; I asked because I wanted to know. Please provide sources and/or links.

No, you just said that the only thing you knew about him was that he gave up his wealth to fight the West. It's not hard to read between the lines. Others on this forum are much more forthcoming with their reverence for this man.

Since when was stating a fact equivalent to support? It isn't disputed by anyone or himself that he left a luxurious life (some sources say he was worth up to $300 million) to live quite a hard life.

[titus]

Since when was stating a fact equivalent to support? It isn't disputed by anyone or himself that he left a luxurious life (some sources say he was worth up to $300 million) to live quite a hard life.

The poster in question is insulting and attacking anyone that says anything negative about the man (at least the non-Muslim members) while only stating such facts that attempt to put him in a good light. Implicit support is still support.

I don't really care if people accept the sources or not; I asked because I wanted to know. Please provide sources and/or links.

Transcript from Aljazeera

In the original Arabic

List of Bin Laden Videos and summary of their contents

[MustafaMc]

God forbid you dig deeper and use your brain you conspiracy theorist!

Sorry, but I can't help using my mind to try to understand when I have questions. The events of 9/11 happened very soon after I started practicing Islam and the association of Islam in the media with terrorism led me to study the details of this traumatic day on the internet. A few years ago I came across a website, Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth ae911truth.org that I find to be very sound scientifically. This site raises serious questions that contradict the official story. Anyone who has watched a video of a known building destruction such as the Seattle Kingdome by explosive implosion will immediately recognize the video of WTC collapse as a planned implosion. The free-fall manner of WTC7 can only be explained by the instantaneous removal of the supporting steel columns. The documented presence of unexploded nanothermite in the ubiquitous WTC dust cannot in any way, shape or form be explained by commercial planes flying into the Twin Towers. Wikipedia explains nanothermite as:

Nano-thermite, also called "super-thermite",is the common name for a subset of metastable intermolecular composites (MICs) characterized by a highly exothermic reaction after ignition. Nano-thermites contain an oxidizer and a reducing agent, which are intimately mixed on the nanometer scale. MICs, including nano-thermitic materials, are a type of reactive materials investigated for military use, as well as in applications in propellants, explosives, and pyrotechnics. What separates MICs from traditional thermites is that the oxidizer and a reducing agent, normally iron oxide and aluminum are not a fine powder, but rather nanoparticles. This dramatically increases the reactivity relative to micrometre-sized powder thermite. As the mass transport mechanisms that slow down the burning rates of traditional thermites are not so important at these scales, the reactions become kinetically controlled and much faster.


Again, if Osama was responsible for 9/11, how did he implosively bring down WTC7 (not hit by a plane) and how did he get bits of unexploded nanothermite and the iron micro-spheroid residue from its explosion in the WTC dust?

[جوري]

Again, if Osama was responsible for 9/11, how did he implosively bring down WTC7 (not hit by a plane) and how did he get bits of unexploded nanothermite and the iron micro-spheroid residue from its explosion in the WTC dust?

With plastic knives and invincible passports.. glad they admit that cave dwellers are light years ahead of them in genius and out of this world technology!

:w:

[titus]

Sorry, but I can't help using my mind to try to understand when I have questions.

Sometimes Occams Razor is the best way to use your mind.

Some Nano-Thermite conspiracy theories debunked

Anyone who has watched a video of a known building destruction such as the Seattle Kingdome by explosive implosion will immediately recognize the video of WTC collapse as a planned implosion.

Actually, no. A building collapsing is going to look like that. And no, the WTC did not collapse at free fall speed. Plus, if you think about it, do you really think that it is plausible that the government could plant all of the tons of explosives without anyone in the building knowing about it, and then accurately fly the planes (in both buildings) right into the floors where the explosives are planted without damaging them so that they could (by remote control I assume) set off the explosions at a later time? Let's not even mention how many thousands of people would have to be involved in such a conspiracy to be able to pull it off, yet 10 years later not a single one has come out to say anything?

With plastic knives and invincible passports.. glad they admit that cave dwellers are light years ahead of them in genius and out of this world technology!

Yes, those cave dwellers are something to be proud of.

There is also the video of some of these cave dwellers, along with Bin Laden,

Link

So not only video evidence of the men involved in the hijackings but also the man who was just killed in Pakistan speaking with them.

But the convenient part of conspiracy theories is that you can just claim it was faked. Everything that goes against the conspiracy theories is faked, I have come to learn.

[Pygoscelis]

it isn't up to repuke cons and fundies to tell us

Hold on a moment. You are not a fundy? Maybe it is your hostile tone, but all this time I thought you were a fundy muslim. That isn't so?

[Pygoscelis]

I cannot believe you say these things when you know its YOUR people who killed millions of innocent people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki....in Afghanistan...in Iraq.

You are both wrong to broad brush. You and the other muslims on this board are not responsible for terrorism. The gentleman you are addressing is not responsible for Hiroshima.

[Pygoscelis]

Note that the Taliban asked for such proof before the US invasion and occupation of Afghanistan.

That is a good point and it really bothered me at the time that the US didn't hand any kind of proof over or make any kind of case and instead like cowboys just rode in. I rarely meet people here who oppose both Iraq (most do) and Afghanistan (very few do). I oppose both.

[Pygoscelis]

It isn't disputed by anyone or himself that he left a luxurious life (some sources say he was worth up to $300 million) to live quite a hard life.

Let's not romanticize too much. We all pictured the man hiding in a cave somewhere. He was found in a much more luxurious abode, practically urban. Yes, he gave up being super wealthy, but lets not stretch that too far.

[Pygoscelis]

The poster in question is insulting and attacking anyone that says anything negative about the man (at least the non-Muslim members) while only stating such facts that attempt to put him in a good light. Implicit support is still support.

Um, you've been here since 2009, yes? So why does the above surprise you? We could be talking about anything whatsoever and she'd be hostile and frothing at the mouth towards non-muslims.

[Darth Ultor]

Bin Laden can rot in Hell

[Abu Zainab]

You are both wrong to broad brush. You and the other muslims on this board are not responsible for terrorism. The gentleman you are addressing is not responsible for Hiroshima.

Yeah but he is blaming Muslims in general. And I clearly stated that we have nothing against peace loving people whatever their race or religion maybe (Jews included.) It's just a bunch of prower-hungry morons who want to rule the world. They can "buy" a few hypocrites from our side to make Islaam look bad and give them excuse to attack our people and our lands. But still we don't blame the American people. We know who the real culprits are.

And their logic that "so many people cannot keep a such a big secret" is flawed. They are dreaming. Anyone with a pea sized brain knows that if he were to come out with a single proof, he and his family will be in Gitmo the next day.

[جوري]

Sometimes Occams Razor is the best way to use your mind.

Let us know beyond memorization when application starts working for you!

Yes, those cave dwellers are something to be proud of.

There is also the video of some of these cave dwellers, along with Bin Laden,

Indeed I can think of no greater honor than to die in a state of jihad!

Link

So not only video evidence of the men involved in the hijackings but also the man who was just killed in Pakistan speaking with them.

But the convenient part of conspiracy theories is that you can just claim it was faked. Everything that goes against the conspiracy theories is faked, I have come to learn.

Aha.. whatever makes your simpleton mind happy-- difficult for folks with PhD's to break down things to minions to easily digestible bits.. and frankly not worth it after a while!

best,

[جوري]

Hold on a moment. You are not a fundy? Maybe it is your hostile tone, but all this time I thought you were a fundy muslim. That isn't so?

as much as you're an atheist fundie .. are you delusional or simply too good to be true?

Um, you've been here since 2009, yes? So why does the above surprise you? We could be talking about anything whatsoever and she'd be hostile and frothing at the mouth towards non-muslims.

speaking of frothing at the mouth, isn't that what the bib beneath your macroglossal tongue in your avy is for?
you ought to read up on projection!

best,

[Pygoscelis]

Yeah but he is blaming Muslims in general. And I clearly stated that we have nothing against peace loving people whatever their race or religion maybe (Jews included.) It's just a bunch of prower-hungry morons who want to rule the world. They can "buy" a few hypocrites from our side to make Islaam look bad and give them excuse to attack our people and our lands. But still we don't blame the American people. We know who the real culprits are.

And their logic that "so many people cannot keep a such a big secret" is flawed. They are dreaming. Anyone with a pea sized brain knows that if he were to come out with a single proof, he and his family will be in Gitmo the next day.

Very well put.

[ICYUNVMe]

Continuing this argument is bordering on pointless. The majority of the outspoken individuals on this board would support the belief that the worst Muslim is still better than the best Kaffir. Osama Bin Laden was unquestionably a terrorist who DID kill civilians, Muslims and non-Muslims alike. And the evidence that he supported such attacks by others and was viewed by a wide swath of the fundamentalist Muslim community as a Leader speaks for itself to anyone with intelligence.

But that is irrelevant, you see? Because Osama Bin Laden is a Muslim. It doesn't matter what he did. There will always be a justification for a Muslim who behaves in such a way.

I have no doubt that there are Muslims out there who understand that one must still condemn those who should be condemned, regardless of whether or not he/she shares your religion. However, that number is either too small, or they are afraid to speak up. Instead, as is the case with almost anything, the people on the fringe are the ones who speak the loudest.

Your hypocritical claims to Moral Superiority are thrown out the window when Osama Bin Laden is looked upon as an innocent victim. It would serve you well to remember that.

[جوري]

However, that number is either too small, or they are afraid to speak up.

Funny stuffs-- anyone who defends Ben Laden is as good as rounded up for gitmo.. this however is the age of the great schism. There are indeed hypocrites who would stand shoulder to shoulder with a kaffir like you, and support the death of hundreds of thousands of Muslims to date for something that was clearly an inside job.. and then there are those who say it as it is regardless of what it means to their welfare and livelihood!

speaking of which, why is this guy still here? this is the guy who admitted day one he'd want to tie a Muslim to a Humvee and have his body paraded in NYC? as far as I am concerned we don't need more trash on this forum. It stinks enough as is with its usual veterans!

[جوري]

*** mods****

I know no one likes taking out the garbage but I really think it is time for spring cleaning

best,

[Scimitar]

Hello, and Salaam.

New here so um, forgive me for intruding here but I just read through this thread... I gotta say, it's just like reading youtube comments. Can everyone please stop getting shot?

We can argue pedantics regarding the specifics until our e-penis' drop off, but it won't get you anywhere... especially in your spiritual development - and forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't that why we're all here for in the first place? Whether you are a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Aetheist, or a polka dot clad alien?

If you're here to troll then um... it's pretty transparent. Seriously, enough of this "You Moo Slims ayre all in with this whole OBL is the best" thing and us Muslims need to stop creating topics on Islamic forums which talk sensitive politics regarding hot-to-burn issues. Somewhere along the line, you'll get one Muslim who thinks "Ooh look - he's dissing Islam - I'm gonna let him have it" - just like you get people from all faiths who have a zeal and want to protect the image of the faith they so love and abide by... zealots come from all religions, even aethism (yeah, I beleive its a religion too - since it requires faith to beleive in something that hasnt been proven, ie: Evolution)... So let's please stop getting shot.

I know I'm new here, and I don't wanna take liberty with my opinion, but my vote is to close this thread... it's an embarrassment. Sorry.

[جوري]

it's just like reading youtube comments

Except this isn't youtube, it is an Islamic forum.. It isn't becoming of guests to incommode their hosts especially with mainstream garbage otherwise I have many junk bonds I'd love to sell to the next sucker and in this case it isn't a simple case of incommoding.. in fact the word trolling as you so mention would fit the bill!

best,

[Scimitar]

Salaam sister.

I see your point. I take that and let it mull its way into my being, so I don't "incommode" you in future... what a word. Impressed. ;) But hey, I hope you can acknowledge my pov too... It's pretty disheartening to see the same debates degrading into battle-wits, reminiscent of the slurring contests I see you on youtube. I came here to escape that kind of gabble. However, I'm not going to let this experience interfere in my view of all else I have seen around the place. It's pretty well on point imo.

I hope you and I can agree to not harbour any animosity towards eachother, and amicably move on insha-Allah. Amin.

[جوري]

I hope you and I can agree to not harbour any animosity towards eachother, and amicably move on insha-Allah. Amin.

I harbor no ill toward anyone who have declared themselves Muslim.. This can be a nice forum pairwise ..I am finding it hard to be able to stand kaffirs now a days on the forum and off it!

:w:

[MustafaMc]

Sometimes Occams Razor is the best way to use your mind.

Wikipedia - Occam's razor ... is a principle that generally recommends selecting the competing hypothesis that makes the fewest new assumptions, when the hypotheses are equal in other respects. For instance, they must both sufficiently explain available data in the first place. The first and simplest HYPOTHESIS or theory is not always best if it does not explain the available data. The Nano-Thermite link you inserted does not attempt to explain in ANY capacity this scientific paper: http://www.benthamscience.com/open/t...002/7TOCPJ.htm

Actually, no. A building collapsing is going to look like that. And no, the WTC did not collapse at free fall speed.

The scientific evidence says that WTC building 7 (Salamon Brothers) did collapse for sometime at free-fall http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POUSJm--tgw

Plus, if you think about it, do you really think that it is plausible that the government could plant all of the tons of explosives without anyone in the building knowing about it, and then accurately fly the planes (in both buildings) right into the floors where the explosives are planted without damaging them so that they could (by remote control I assume) set off the explosions at a later time? Let's not even mention how many thousands of people would have to be involved in such a conspiracy to be able to pull it off, yet 10 years later not a single one has come out to say anything?

This is ALWAYS the response I get with no refutation attempted of the actual points raised. I have not said anything about who-dunit, but rather raise questions that the official story with OBL and 19 Muslims does not answer. All I want is a simple logical answer. Similarly, while you are at it, I want to know how Jesus can be the 'Son' of God and at the same time be God himself.

[titus]

This is ALWAYS the response I get with no refutation attempted of the actual points raised. I have not said anything about who-dunit, but rather raise questions that the official story with OBL and 19 Muslims does not answer.

Then we are at an impasse. You cannot answer my questions, and I cannot answer yours.

These conspiracy theories started right after 9/11 and these questions are asked, then answered. Then more questions are asked, and then answered. And the story evolves over years. First it was not a plane that hit the Pentagon but a missile. Then there was the secret message to Jews to not go to work that day. Then there was the story that it wasn't even the real planes that hit the towers but military planes.

So please, if you refuse to answer my questions how can you expect me to answer yours? I can bet you, though, that for every question I cannot answer for you that there are 10 you cannot answer for me.

The simple fact is that that yes, in 2001 it was possible for 19 men to hijack 4 fuel laden planes and fly them into buildings causing them to collapse. The majority of scientists believe that. Engineers and physicists in peer reviewed scientific journals have shown it. Steven Jones, on the other hand, publishes his paper and the editor (who is a proffessor with a specialty in nano-materials no less) resigns when his paper his published without her knowledge because "The article has nothing to do with physical chemistry or chemical physics, and I could well believe that there is a political viewpoint behind its publication.".

So you are the one contending that the majority of scientists and engineers that say that the official story of 9/11 is legitimate are either wrong or they are part of the conspiracy. And that the papers published backing up the official story are all made up, and that the scientifick community as a whole is silent on the issue because... they are all part of the conspiracy? Sorry, I find that way too hard to believe.

[Pygoscelis]

Continuing this argument is bordering on pointless. The majority of the outspoken individuals on this board would support the belief that the worst Muslim is still better than the best Kaffir.

Osama Bin Laden is a Muslim. It doesn't matter what he did. There will always be a justification for a Muslim who behaves in such a way.

This is the essence of tribalism. It is in no way exclusive to muslims. It plagues all ingroups, be they religious, nationalistic, racial, or whatever. It should be pointed out and guarded against wherever possible if we are to have anything resembling egalitarian society.

In this particular case, note that it acts on both "sides" here. You will have some muslims defending other muslims simply because they are muslims, even to the point of cheering on terrorist acts and making heroes out of terrorists, but you will also have westerners broadbrushing muslims as a whole and feeling superior, and making heroes out of their own butchers.

ou see this in the news reporting where they reported how many Americans or other westerners died fighting this or that, but you didn't hear about the many Iraqi or Arghan (etc) civilians. And only rarely did you hear about the abuses by the westerners on those people. There was even a serious debate over if torture of people who have not been tried or convicted of anything is ok. Of course it isn't! That such a debate was taken seirously shows a level of tribalism only normally seen at soccer games.

The situation in the middle east is a ready made Us vs Them and it is constantly used to great effect by those who have or seek power and influence. It provides the bogeymen they need to control us with, from "Al Qaeda" to the "Great Satan". They use history, religion, etc to demonize and divide the two "sides" against each other, to use them as pawns towards their own ends.

Only be actually meeting individuals, working with them, getting to know them, living near them, etc, can we hope to stop this. Boards like this can help (when people are not engaging in the tribal hatreds noted above).

[Pygoscelis]

I gotta say, it's just like reading youtube comments.

lol! Apt comparison! I like you already.

Seriously, enough of this "You Moo Slims ayre all in with this whole OBL is the best"

Yes, seirously.

"Ooh look - he's dissing Islam - I'm gonna let him have it" - just like you get people from all faiths who have a zeal and want to protect the image of the faith they so love and abide by

But ironically by doing so they usually tarnish the image, by behaving the way the first guy accuses all of them doing (which of course hey don't). That then feeds into confirmation bias and there you have it, the cycle continues.

... zealots come from all religions, even aethism (yeah, I beleive its a religion too - since it requires faith to beleive in something that hasnt been proven, ie: Evolution)...

There are anti-religious zealots, like Hitchens can sometimes be, but I don't know aobut atheist zealots. It would depend on how you choose to define the term "atheist". There is nothing about my "atheism" that requires me to believe in evolution, or the big bang, or anything else.

[Pygoscelis]

I hope you and I can agree to not harbour any animosity towards eachother, and amicably move on insha-Allah. Amin.

As she wrote above, you'll have no issues with Lily, because you are muslim. Let us shoot for a more abitious goal. Let's you and I agree not to harbour any animosity towards each other, and amicably move on, regardless of whateither of us believe about the world :thumbs_up

[Zafran]

salaam

Bin Laden has had more reaction after his death then he ever was alive. This thread is a great example of it

peace

[جوري]

But ironically by doing so they usually tarnish the image, by behaving the way the first guy accuses all of them doing (which of course hey don't). That then feeds into confirmation bias and there you have it, the cycle continues.

For the sake of the porcelain God you worship do tell me what that means? Where exactly does the irony lie there? Whether you are handled with kid gloves, coaxed, emulated, given the wealth of impoverished nations on a platter ergo their despots or fought passionately as well should be the case by non-hypocrites who dare stand up for principles against all the wars, corruptions, hatred, mischief and over debauchery. The outcome is always exactly the same!


وَلَنْ تَرْضَىٰ عَنْكَ الْيَهُودُ وَلَا النَّصَارَىٰ حَتَّىٰ تَتَّبِعَ مِلَّتَهُمْ ۗ قُلْ إِنَّ هُدَى اللَّهِ هُوَ الْهُدَىٰ ۗ وَلَئِنِ اتَّبَعْتَ أَهْوَاءَهُمْ بَعْدَ الَّذِي جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ ۙ مَا لَكَ مِنَ اللَّهِ مِنْ وَلِيٍّ وَلَا نَصِيرٍ {120}
[Pickthal 2:120] And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah (Himself) is Guidance. And if thou shouldst follow their desires after the knowledge which hath come unto thee, then wouldst thou have from Allah no protecting guardian nor helper.


I see no irony whatsoever and if you gave it some thought you might conclude the same!
It's indeed better to stand for what you believe and be hated for it, than b a hypocrite and still be hated for it, even if the face one is given echos otherwise, what hides in the hearts is indeed visible in the actions!

best,

[MustafaMc]

The simple fact is that that yes, in 2001 it was possible for 19 men to hijack 4 fuel laden planes and fly them into buildings causing them to collapse.

Perhaps you are right. I don't see how this event is consistent with what I know about Islam, nor have I ever met a Muslim who celebrated it. Maybe I have been looking for an alternative explanation because I do not support terrorism or unjustified killing of innocent people.

[Abu Zainab]

Perhaps you are right. I don't see how this event is consistent with what I know about Islam, nor have I ever met a Muslim who celebrated it. Maybe I have been looking for an alternative explanation because I do not support terrorism or unjustified killing of innocent people.

Exactly my point.....why would any Muslim celebrate such an event...and besides all of us knew beforehand what were to be the consequences. Two countries invaded and looted and their innocent people murdered. So who gained anything from all this except a few corrupt elite who do not care about any human life.

For all these years after 9-11 my heart has been burning inside thinking how all these naive people even believe the bizarre official story. The real culprits are well and fine and waiting to launch their next attack. I always asked myself how come Allaah did not punish or reveal the real culprits. The answer is clear: "They plan and Allaah plans and Allaah is the best of planners".

[MustafaMc]

I always asked myself how come Allaah did not punish or reveal the real culprits. The answer is clear: "They plan and Allaah plans and Allaah is the best of planners".

My dear respected brother in Islam, not a leaf (or a building) falls except that it is the will of Allah. There is no power except with Allah.

[titus]

Perhaps you are right. I don't see how this event is consistent with what I know about Islam, nor have I ever met a Muslim who celebrated it.

I don't see it as consistent with Islam either. Nor do I see the abortion doctor killings as consistent with Christianity, nor the inquisition. Different people interpret religions in different ways and any religion is susceptible to this corruption, unfortunately.

Maybe I have been looking for an alternative explanation because I do not support terrorism or unjustified killing of innocent people.

I don't support the unjustified killing of innocents either, but I don't see how this explains you wanting to believe that the US government did such a thing or for anyone to believe that it was impossible that a group of terrorists could have done it. I hope, though, that what we both want is the truth, not just to hear what makes us feel better about ourselves.

For the sake of the porcelain God you worship

Are you saying that he throws up a lot?

It's indeed better to stand for what you believe and be hated for it, than b a hypocrite and still be hated for it

It is better to stand for what you believe in with dignity. There is also nothing wrong with treating those who believe different than you with a modicum of respect.

[MustafaMc]

I have not seen evidence that convinces me of the official (OBL + 19 hijackers) story, whereas I have seen evidence (WTC7 + nanothermite) that is not consistent with it. Now that evidence may have been contrived and 'planted' to make me look foolish, but the ae911truth.org site makes a lot of sense to me.

[MustafaMc]

Quotes from:

AE911Truth Statement on Alleged Recent Death of Osama bin Laden

Reports of bin Laden's death, even if true, explain NONE of the overwhelming evidence for the explosive controlled demolition of the three World Trade Center skyscrapers on 9/11.

Osama bin Laden’s death does not begin to address these disturbing facts:

1) WTC Building #7, a 47-story high-rise not hit by an airplane, exhibited all the characteristics of classic controlled demolition with explosives:
2) In the the aftermath of WTC7's destruction, strong evidence of demolition using incendiary devices was discovered:
3) The Twin Towers' destruction exhibited all of the characteristics of conventional destruction by explosives, and some unconventional characteristics:
4) Neither the Twin Towers nor WTC7 exhibited any of the characteristics of destruction by fire:

Just as conviction of a murderer without a body is disparaged, conviction and murder of the accused without evidence, or a body, should be condemned.

Any explanation given for the worst terrorist attack on American soil should be examined closely. Claims made without evidence should be discarded. We at AE911truth will continue that approach with respect to the WTC destruction and we hope that everyone else will follow the same approach with respect to the worst terrorist attack in American history.

These quotations are consistent with the posts that I have made on this thread.