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Venus
05-03-2011, 09:50 AM
In some religion and in Islam life is a test as god has given you the free will to do good and bad.(1)why has god not given the free will to some people whom we call MAD.(2)what happens to them-heaven or hell.(3)what is the reason in sending him to heaven or hell.

(4)why has god created this universe,was bored living alone.(5)why has god created the angels if he can do any thing according to his will??????
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aadil77
05-03-2011, 02:38 PM
1. People who have mental disorders are considered innocent, in the same way a child is considered innocent
2. They go to heaven if their disorder was such that they could not comprehend faith and belief in religion
3. They do not have the means to function in the same way we do, so they cannot be held liable for it.
4. It's God's Will, something we may never know
5. Angels were created to serve Him and worship Him
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Woodrow
05-03-2011, 02:41 PM
I am having trouble in understanding question #4. Are you asking if Allaah(swt) needed something?. Are you wondering if He felt loneliness and for that reason created what He created?

If that is what you meant, the answer is no. Allaah(swt) is beyond all concepts of Human Emotions. He has no needs nor any Human desires.
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selsebil
05-03-2011, 03:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Venus
In some religion and in Islam life is a test as god has given you the free will to do good and bad.(1)why has god not given the free will to some people whom we call MAD.(2)what happens to them-heaven or hell.(3)what is the reason in sending him to heaven or hell.

(4)why has god created this universe,was bored living alone.(5)why has god created the angels if he can do any thing according to his will??????
Dear Venus,

1. They have the free-will.But since they're mentally ill ,they cannot control their actions by free-will.
2 and 3. They have no responsibility in their actions.So they can go to heaven.But there are many levels and degrees in heaven.
4. The universe has been ornamented with every sort of art, animate and inanimate, in every scale; it is like an endless parade or exhibition of works of art, designed to attract all people and cause them to reflect. Beauty of landscape, its extraordinary diversity and magnificent adornment, the sheer abundance and flow of events constitute a reality, definite and present, to our senses and minds. The reality argues the existence of an agent who brings it into being. Through the reality of His works and deeds we come to know the Doer, and so His Name or Names. Through these Names, manifested in objects and beings, we try to know His Attributes, through the channels and prayers opened to our hearts we yearn, we strive to know Him in Himself, Exalted is He. This raising up of our being is inspired across a wide domain of reality─things, events, the vast realm of man’s stewardship in the universe; the relation or con¬nection between man and the universe and the realm of God’s Names and Attributes.
Now let us try to express the Creator’s purpose by a simple analogy.
Let us think of an expert craftsman or artist. Say that this artist is an extraordinary sculptor who with a few strokes of hammer and chisel, can produce life-like sub¬jects from the hardest stone, expressive of the most deli¬cate feelings. Or a skilful worker in wood who can, as it were, pour his soul into walnut or beech or bring (as the expression is) a piece of ebony to life. Or an excellent painter whose brush-strokes can produce the most ex¬quisite combination of colours, which stir the beholders with their beauty. And to these kinds of skills, we might add many more. It is impossible to know the artist as an artist─if he does not show his abilities. We may come to know him and deduce his abilities either from his works of art or from the process through which he produces them. Every potentiality wishes to reveal the reality hid¬den within itself, to demonstrate what it knows by clothing itself in an outward form, by putting on an ex¬ternal body. Seeds strive to sprout; sperms strive to join the egg in the womb; and bubbles floating in the air strive to reach ground as droplets of water. They all en¬dure the effort necessary simply because of the desire to show in reality the potentiality within themselves.
The urge to show our potentialities, and thus to be seen and known by others is in fact an expression of weakness or defect, as all beings and their wishes are merely the shadow of the original essence. However, the skilful Creator is absolutely free from such defects or weak-nesses. It must never be forgotten that neither any single nor composite manifestation of the essence is similar to the essence.
All artistry which fills the universe informs us of the thousands of the Names of God. Each of the Names, manifested in diverse memorials of the art of creation, illuminate our way and guide us to know the Attributes of that Being, the One Creator; they stimulate and awaken our hearts by the signs, messages, of that hidden Creator present, carried to our senses.
The Creator wants to introduce Himself to us thor¬oughly without leaving anything unclear. Through the variety and beauty of the Creation, He wants to show His Splendour; through the magnificent order and harmony in the universe He wants to show His Will and Might; and through the fact that He bestows everything upon us, including the secret wishes and desires of our hearts and minds, He wants to show His Mercy, Compassion, and Grace. And He has many more Names and Attributes through which He wants to make Himself known.
In other words, He places objects, which He knows in His all-encompassing knowledge, into this world in order to manifest His Might and Will. In this way, by passing all things through the prism of the intellect and under¬standing of conscious beings, He arouses wonder, admi¬ration, and appreciation in the earthly and heavenly do¬mains.
Just as a skilful artist manifests his talents through his works of art, in the elevated sense, so the Owner of this universe, simply to manifest the Might and Omnipotence of His Creativity, created the universe.

5) Angels have no role in creation.It may be said that the existence of the angels and spirit beings is as definite as that of human beings and animals. Indeed, reality undoubtedly requires and wisdom certainly demands that like the earth the heavens have inhabitants, and that its inhabitants are intelligent, and suitable for the heavens. In the tongue of the Shari‘a, those inhabitants, of which there are numerous kinds, are called angels and spirit beings.
Reality requires it to be thus. For despite the earth’s smallness and insignificance in relation to the heavens, its being filled with intelligent beings and from time to time being emptied and then refilled with new ones suggests -indeed, states clearly- that the heavens too, with their majestic constellations like adorned palaces, are filled with animate creatures, the light of the light of existence, and conscious and intelligent creatures, the light of animate creatures. Like man and the jinn, those creatures are spectators of the palace of the world, and ponderers over the book of the universe, and heralds of this realm of dominicality. With their universal and comprehensive worship, they represent the glorification of the large and universal beings in the universe.
The nature of the universe surely points to their existence. For since it is embellished and decked out with uncountable numbers of finely adorned works of art and meaningful decorations and wise embroideries, it self-evidently requires the gazes of thoughtful admirers and wondering, appreciative lovers; it demands their existence. Yes, just as beauty requires a lover, so is food is given to the hungry. Thus, the sustenance of spirits and nourishment of hearts in this boundless beauty of art looks to the angels and spirit beings; it points to them. For while this infinite adornment requires an infinite duty of contemplation and worship, man and the jinn can perform only a millionth of that infinite duty, that wise supervision, that extensive worship. This means that boundless varieties of angels and spirit beings are necessary to perform those duties, and to fill and inhabit the mighty mosque of the world with their ranks.
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Perseveranze
05-03-2011, 04:34 PM
4. How do we know the answer to that? How do we know there is only 1 Universe, how do we know that there's paralell worlds, other signficant beings in other worlds. We don't know this.

Just ask God when you meet him. All I can say is, were extremely insignfican't compared to Him and your putting way to much importance on our existence and this universe in a completly unaswereable question.
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Venus
05-04-2011, 08:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
1. People who have mental disorders are considered innocent, in the same way a child is considered innocent
you may consider them anything but the question is why are they not given the free will.
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Venus
05-04-2011, 08:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
3. They do not have the means to function in the same way we do, so they cannot be held liable for it.
how can you tell that they deserve heaven
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Venus
05-04-2011, 08:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I am having trouble in understanding question #4.
the question is why did create this universe at the first instance.
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Venus
05-04-2011, 08:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by selsebil
2 and 3. They have no responsibility in their actions.So they can go to heaven.But there are many levels and degrees in heaven.
if i am in hell i can tell that even they should have given the test,god should have given them the physical strength.its unjust.
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Venus
05-04-2011, 08:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by selsebil
Just as a skilful artist manifests his talents through his works of art, in the elevated sense, so the Owner of this universe, simply to manifest the Might and Omnipotence of His Creativity, created the universe.
superb answer but this is the counter strike.
if god want to show himself
format_quote Originally Posted by selsebil
The Creator wants to introduce Himself to us thor¬oughly without leaving anything unclear.
then he should come before us and before you quote Moses story he should have given us strong eyes to see him. and god does not have emotions like us that he wants to show us his might etc
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Aprender
05-04-2011, 08:36 AM
Some of your questions have no answers to them. Neither the Qur'an nor the Bible are a source of science. Neither of them are an autobiographical piece from God and detailing why He created us. They are books of guidance for us and are concerned with how we should live our lives during our time here in this world.

There is a reason behind everything that Allah (swt) does. We may not understand those reasons, and there are many things in this world that only Allah knows, but don't think for one minute that our Creator is unjust simply because you can't comprehend his will for others. Whether or not someone goes to Heaven or Hell is of no concern to you. That is beyond you and only for Allah (swt) to decide and you can be sure that it will be a just decision.

My first advice to you is to read the holy books. Instead of sitting here calling Allah (swt) unjust and telling what he should and shouldn't do, I encourage you to use your abilities to write, think, and form an opinion to help those who can't help themselves. You might find yourself humbled by it.
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Venus
05-04-2011, 08:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by selsebil
Angels have no role in creation.It may be said that the existence of the angels and spirit beings is as definite as that of human beings and animals. Indeed, reality undoubtedly requires and wisdom certainly demands that like the earth the heavens have inhabitants, and that its inhabitants are intelligent, and suitable for the heavens. In the tongue of the Shari‘a, those inhabitants, of which there are numerous kinds, are called angels and spirit beings. Reality requires it to be thus. For despite the earth’s smallness and insignificance in relation to the heavens, its being filled with intelligent beings and from time to time being emptied and then refilled with new ones suggests -indeed, states clearly- that the heavens too, with their majestic constellations like adorned palaces, are filled with animate creatures, the light of the light of existence, and conscious and intelligent creatures, the light of animate creatures. Like man and the jinn, those creatures are spectators of the palace of the world, and ponderers over the book of the universe, and heralds of this realm of dominicality. With their universal and comprehensive worship, they represent the glorification of the large and universal beings in the universe. The nature of the universe surely points to their existence. For since it is embellished and decked out with uncountable numbers of finely adorned works of art and meaningful decorations and wise embroideries, it self-evidently requires the gazes of thoughtful admirers and wondering, appreciative lovers; it demands their existence. Yes, just as beauty requires a lover, so is food is given to the hungry. Thus, the sustenance of spirits and nourishment of hearts in this boundless beauty of art looks to the angels and spirit beings; it points to them. For while this infinite adornment requires an infinite duty of contemplation and worship, man and the jinn can perform only a millionth of that infinite duty, that wise supervision, that extensive worship. This means that boundless varieties of angels and spirit beings are necessary to perform those duties, and to fill and inhabit the mighty mosque of the world with their ranks.
you did not answer my question? why do they do the work which god can himself do? like keeping record of the good and bad done by us.
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Venus
05-04-2011, 08:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
Whether or not someone goes to Heaven or Hell is of no concern to you.
so why do Muslims do Dawah. if i am a muslim my parents are not why should i think whether they go to hell or heaven?
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aadil77
05-04-2011, 10:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Venus
you may consider them anything but the question is why are they not given the free will.
They are given free will, they just won't be held accountable for wrong things they may do using their free will
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aadil77
05-04-2011, 10:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Venus
how can you tell that they deserve heaven
I am not God, but God is Al-Mighty and Most Just

He will judge each person accordingly, people who die in a state of innocence go to heaven
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Woodrow
05-04-2011, 10:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Venus
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I am having trouble in understanding question #4.
the question is why did create this universe at the first instance.

I do not intend my answer to sound flippant or frivolous. But the very simple and to the point answer is: "Because He could."

Beyond that we really do not have the ability to understand. but we do know a few things that may help understand the results of his creating.

We know he has no needs so in our limited minds we can not contemplate any reason he would have created it. but we do know we are the ones who benefit from it. We do know that it fulfills all of our needs if we accept it. We do know that it is necessary for our existence. The material world and all that is in it serves and is needed by all that exist within it.

I know that does not answer your question. But being in the physical realm my answers are very limited. I know why I need the universe for me to be. I also know Allaaah(swt) has no need of me. But I am thankful he has given me the gift of life. Before you jump to conclusions, much of my life has not been a very easy existence. I have sometimes questioned the hardships I have faced and still do face. But, I do know that even my worse moments have been a gift and I am very happy I have been given them. I do not know why Allaah(swt) created the universe, but I am very happy he did. I accept what he has given me as a gift and have no need to ask why he has given it to me.
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selsebil
05-04-2011, 01:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Venus
if i am in hell i can tell that even they should have given the test,god should have given them the physical strength.its unjust.
if you're in hell that means you misused your freewill, you abused your abilities.You could have got highest levels of heaven.God has given you mental health and logic.So you're responsible from your acts!
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selsebil
05-04-2011, 01:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Venus
superb answer but this is the counter strike.
if god want to show himself


then he should come before us and before you quote Moses story he should have given us strong eyes to see him. and god does not have emotions like us that he wants to show us his might etc
God is pre-eternal and post-eternal.We cannot imagine a God limited to time! So there is no " before,after " for God!

The emotions and attributes of human beings are samples of attributions of God.For example we can understand the endless knowledge of God by our limited knowledge.The mercy of mothers against their children is a small sample of endless mercy of God.And so on!
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selsebil
05-04-2011, 01:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Venus
you did not answer my question? why do they do the work which god can himself do? like keeping record of the good and bad done by us.
OK.Let me clarify:

The angels are just a veil to the actions of God like other universal causes. Causes are a veil; for Divine dignity and grandeur require them to be thus. But that which acts and performs matters is the power of the Eternally Besought One; for Divine unity and glory require it to be thus, and necessitate their independence. The officials of the Pre-Eternal Monarch are not executives of the sovereignty of dominicality, they are the heralds of His sovereignty and the observers and superintendents of His dominicality. Their purpose is to make known the dignity of power and majesty of dominicality, so that power should not be seen to be associated with base and lowly matters. Not like a human king, tainted by impotence and indigence, who therefore takes officials as partners. That is to say, causes have been placed so that the dignity of power may be preserved in the superficial view of the mind. For like the two faces of a mirror, everything has an outer face that looks to this manifest world, which resembles the mirror’s coloured face and may reflect various colours and states, and an inner face which looks to its Maker, which resembles the mirror’s shining face. In the outer face which looks to the manifest world may be states incompatible with the dignity and perfection of the Eternally Besought One’s power, so causes have been put to be both the source and the means of those states. But in the inner face, that of reality, which looks to their Creator, everything is transparent and beautiful; it is fitting that power should itself be associated with it. It is not incompatible with its dignity; therefore, causes are purely apparent and in the inner face of things and in reality have no true effect.
A further instance of wisdom in apparent causes is this: causes have been put so that unjust complaints and baseless objections should be directed at them and not at the Absolutely Just One. For the faults arise from them, from their incapacity and lack of ability. A comparison is narrated which is in the form of a subtle example illustrating this mystery:
The Angel Azra’il (Peace be upon him) said to Almighty God: “Your servants will complain about me while I am carrying out my duty of taking possession of the spirits of the dying; they will be resentful towards me.” So Almighty God said to him through the tongue of wisdom: “I shall leave the veil of disasters and illnesses between you and my servants so that the complaints will be directed at them, and they will not be indignant at you.”31 So see, illnesses are a veil; what are imagined to be the bad things at the appointed hour are attributed to them, and what are in reality the good things in the spirits of the dying being seized are attributed to Azra’il (PBH) and his duty. Azra’il is also a veil; he is a supervisor of that duty and a veil to Divine power so that certain conditions when spirits are seized which are apparently unkind and are inappropriate to the perfection of mercy be attributed to him.
Yes, dignity and grandeur demand that causes are a veil to the hand of power in the view of the mind, while Divine unity and glory demand that causes withdraw their hands and have no true effect.
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Venus
05-06-2011, 10:42 AM
[quote=selsebil;1434625]God is pre-eternal and post-eternal.We cannot imagine a God limited to time! So there is no " before,after " for God![/quot Arey this before is in front of us
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Venus
05-06-2011, 10:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by selsebil
The emotions and attributes of human beings are samples of attributions of God.For example we can understand the endless knowledge of God by our limited knowledge.The mercy of mothers against their children is a small sample of endless mercy of God.And so on!
really good answer but don't you think that show off is not an attributes of God.
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Venus
05-06-2011, 10:49 AM
thank you very much my 4th question is answered that god cannot tell us everything maybe we may not understand the cause of the creation of universe.if i think like this then i will start asking why the sun rises from east why not west etc
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Venus
05-06-2011, 10:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by selsebil
The angels are just a veil to the actions of God like other universal causes. Causes are a veil; for Divine dignity and grandeur require them to be thus. But that which acts and performs matters is the power of the Eternally Besought One; for Divine unity and glory require it to be thus, and necessitate their independence. The officials of the Pre-Eternal Monarch are not executives of the sovereignty of dominicality, they are the heralds of His sovereignty and the observers and superintendents of His dominicality. Their purpose is to make known the dignity of power and majesty of dominicality, so that power should not be seen to be associated with base and lowly matters. Not like a human king, tainted by impotence and indigence, who therefore takes officials as partners. That is to say, causes have been placed so that the dignity of power may be preserved in the superficial view of the mind. For like the two faces of a mirror, everything has an outer face that looks to this manifest world, which resembles the mirror’s coloured face and may reflect various colours and states, and an inner face which looks to its Maker, which resembles the mirror’s shining face. In the outer face which looks to the manifest world may be states incompatible with the dignity and perfection of the Eternally Besought One’s power, so causes have been put to be both the source and the means of those states. But in the inner face, that of reality, which looks to their Creator, everything is transparent and beautiful; it is fitting that power should itself be associated with it. It is not incompatible with its dignity; therefore, causes are purely apparent and in the inner face of things and in reality have no true effect.
A further instance of wisdom in apparent causes is this: causes have been put so that unjust complaints and baseless objections should be directed at them and not at the Absolutely Just One. For the faults arise from them, from their incapacity and lack of ability. A comparison is narrated which is in the form of a subtle example illustrating this mystery:
The Angel Azra’il (Peace be upon him) said to Almighty God: “Your servants will complain about me while I am carrying out my duty of taking possession of the spirits of the dying; they will be resentful towards me.” So Almighty God said to him through the tongue of wisdom: “I shall leave the veil of disasters and illnesses between you and my servants so that the complaints will be directed at them, and they will not be indignant at you.”31 So see, illnesses are a veil; what are imagined to be the bad things at the appointed hour are attributed to them, and what are in reality the good things in the spirits of the dying being seized are attributed to Azra’il (PBH) and his duty. Azra’il is also a veil; he is a supervisor of that duty and a veil to Divine power so that certain conditions when spirits are seized which are apparently unkind and are inappropriate to the perfection of mercy be attributed to him.
Yes, dignity and grandeur demand that causes are a veil to the hand of power in the view of the mind, while Divine unity and glory demand that causes withdraw their hands and have no true effect.
please answer in english sorryyy.
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Musalman
05-06-2011, 11:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
1. People who have mental disorders are considered innocent, in the same way a child is considered innocent
2. They go to heaven if their disorder was such that they could not comprehend faith and belief in religion
3. They do not have the means to function in the same way we do, so they cannot be held liable for it.
4. It's God's Will, something we may never know
5. Angels were created to serve Him and worship Him
True. The answer is very true.
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