Good Evening! A few questions if you don't mind...

[UnknownTruth]

Hello there,

I am a new member here, I have come on these forums to learn about Islam, (I can't get it out of my head) As I said in my introduction I decided to read some of the Qur'an out of pure chance, and when I read it, a strange yet amazing feeling was felt in my heart, but I have a few concerns, and as you have probably guessed. It is about what the "other" religion says.

Please only reply if you feel comfortable

Okay, So I have read the Bible and this passage intreaged me -



Revelation 22:18 I warn every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,

Revelation 22:19 and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

So my question is, if the Qur'an says God's word can never be altered or changed, and it also says that the Bible is the word of God, just like the Qur'an then how can the Bible be tampered with? After all, the Qur'an sais NO word of God can be altered. The revelation passsage I quoted said nothing will be changed?

I am very confussed with life at the moment, I don't mean to sound rude by asking this question, it's just that Islam fasinates me, I've never felt anything like what I felt while reading the Qur'an. I only hope God can forgive me for my lack of understanding.

Peace, and thank you! :)

[Woodrow]

Hello there,

I am a new member here, I have come on these forums to learn about Islam, (I can't get it out of my head) As I said in my introduction I decided to read some of the Qur'an out of pure chance, and when I read it, a strange yet amazing feeling was felt in my heart, but I have a few concerns, and as you have probably guessed. It is about what the "other" religion says.

Please only reply if you feel comfortable

Okay, So I have read the Bible and this passage intreaged me -



Revelation 22:18 I warn every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,

Revelation 22:19 and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

So my question is, if the Qur'an says God's word can never be altered or changed, and it also says that the Bible is the word of God, just like the Qur'an then how can the Bible be tampered with? After all, the Qur'an sais NO word of God can be altered. The revelation passsage I quoted said nothing will be changed?

I am very confussed with life at the moment, I don't mean to sound rude by asking this question, it's just that Islam fasinates me, I've never felt anything like what I felt while reading the Qur'an. I only hope God can forgive me for my lack of understanding.

Peace, and thank you! :)

Peace Unknown,

to begin I think you need to be aware of our views of the NT. We do not believe any of the NT with the possible exception of some of the Quotes from Jesus(as) are the actual words of God(swt). The NT is a man made book and did not include the Injil that was revealed to Jesus(as). The Book of Revelation was an even later addition having been added many years after the original Apostles were long gone. the actual author remains unknown.

No where does the Quran say the Bible is the word of God(swt). We do believe the original books of the Tauret, Zabbor and Injil were the true words of God(swt) we do believe man was forbidden to change them, but they have been changed or omitted. The Qur'an is the Final message, for all people and is protected from change.

[Ramadhan]

So my question is, if the Qur'an says God's word can never be altered or changed,

Where in the Qur'an that it says God's word can never be altered or changed?

As far as I know, in the Qur'an, God (swt) promised to guard the Qur'an:

Muhsin Khan
Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Quran) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).(QS. 15:9)

And as everyone has witnessed today, the Qur'an remains unchanged, whether some people hate vehemently this fact or not.

Allah also gave shuhuf Ibrahim, zabur, taurat, and injeel to previous messengers (pbut), however, never in the previous messages nor in the Qur'an did Allah SWT state that those messages wouldn't changed or altered. In fact, in several verses in the Qur'an, Allah SWT condemned those (rabbis, priests, scribes) who corrupted (changed, added into, omitted, modified, etc) those messages.

Since it seems you are sincere in seeking knowledge about Islam and the truth, I would advise you to open and read the Qur'an yourself.

[UnknownTruth]

Where in the Qur'an that it says God's word can never be altered or changed?

As far as I know, in the Qur'an, God (swt) promised to guard the Qur'an:

Muhsin Khan
Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Quran) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).(QS. 15:9)

And as everyone has witnessed today, the Qur'an remains unchanged, whether some people hate vehemently this fact or not.

Allah also gave shuhuf Ibrahim, zabur, taurat, and injeel to previous messengers (pbut), however, never in the previous messages nor in the Qur'an did Allah SWT state that those messages wouldn't changed or altered. In fact, in several verses in the Qur'an, Allah SWT condemned those (rabbis, priests, scribes) who corrupted (changed, added into, omitted, modified, etc) those messages.

Since it seems you are sincere in seeking knowledge about Islam and the truth, I would advise you to open and read the Qur'an yourself.

Thank you, I am very new to Islam, but when you tell me to "open the Qur'an", I must inform you that I have opened it, if you read what I said - "I am very confussed with life at the moment" that means ALL of life including faith. I thought in my confussion that all holy books where protected from corruption, not just the Qur'an. Sorry for my mis-understanding.

Thank you for the help though friend :)

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[UnknownTruth]

Thank you for sharing your views on the NT, this is why I joined these forums, from my mis-understanding I thought that the Qur'an said somewhere that all books where protected from corruption not just the original. Deeply sorry for my mistake.

The Qur'an really is beautifull I just wish God could make it more plain to me, I feel like I am blind to it, but also like I am reading the most amazing thing ever writen, strange.
Is there any sites you could recomend to me that are like a story of the life of your phophet (pbuh) I would love to learn more, but my searches have only produced big long quotations of scholers.

Again thank you so much, and if I said anything to offend you, I deeply oppologise.

[al yunan]

I decided to read some of the Qur'an out of pure chance, and when I read it, a strange yet amazing feeling was felt in my heart, but I have a few concerns, and as you have probably guessed. It is about what the "other" religion says.

Salam and Welcome brother,

The most important answer you may get yet, has already been given to you by your own Heart.
Build on that at your own pace and you will surely discover the truth.
Unlike other faiths Islam encourages one to investigate and thus have solid basis of faith.
Please brother also believe that no true Muslim will ever try to steer you wrong, but as we are all different people some times our words may sound conflicting but our hearts and intentions are united in serving our Divine Master Allah S.W.T the most praiseworthy, most High.
As for comparative religious studies need a lot of time and expert study such as history and linguistics to start with then theology, I would advise you to concentrate on one thing at the time, otherwise you may be bogged down for years and loose your enthusiasm for faith. I'm sure you already know that Bible scholars have yet to agree on which version and parts are authentic, whereas the has never been any doubt about the Quran's authenticity.
Inshallah we will do our best to help you so feel free to question us on any matter.
Welcome once more,
Masalam

[Flame of Hope]

Is there any sites you could recomend to me that are like a story of the life of your phophet (pbuh) I would love to learn more, but my searches have only produced big long quotations of scholers.

Would a simplified course in Islam comprising of short lessons interest you?

[YM Usrah Umar]

my friend read the "stories of the prophets" by ibn kathir, go to prophets of islam on this forum

[UnknownTruth]

Salam and Welcome brother,

The most important answer you may get yet, has already been given to you by your own Heart.
Build on that at your own pace and you will surely discover the truth.
Unlike other faiths Islam encourages one to investigate and thus have solid basis of faith.
Please brother also believe that no true Muslim will ever try to steer you wrong, but as we are all different people some times our words may sound conflicting but our hearts and intentions are united in serving our Divine Master Allah S.W.T the most praiseworthy, most High.
As for comparative religious studies need a lot of time and expert study such as history and linguistics to start with then theology, I would advise you to concentrate on one thing at the time, otherwise you may be bogged down for years and loose your enthusiasm for faith. I'm sure you already know that Bible scholars have yet to agree on which version and parts are authentic, whereas the has never been any doubt about the Quran's authenticity.
Inshallah we will do our best to help you so feel free to question us on any matter.
Welcome once more,
Masalam

Thank you very much everyone for the replys.

My heart is telling me one thing, but my mind is saying research it more, learn more. I feel like I could do much a better job, if I have full understanding of the ONE I serve. I would love to learn Arabic, and read the Qur'an in its original language, but it takes years to learn a language. I'm rather stuck on what to do my friends. I don't want to jump right into it, and feel over-whelmed and therefor not be able to understand everything fully.

But, on the bright side, I have learnt so much from in one day.

Flame - It depends what that course would be? How would it be done, of course it intrests me friend!

Thanks again everyone, I have taken all your words to heart and will try my upmost to fullfill my duties as a human being - and make sure I know what I am doing. Thanks again.

[UnknownTruth]

And I will deffinatly check out "stories of the prophets" Thank you!! :D

[YusufNoor]

Thank you very much everyone for the replys.

My heart is telling me one thing, but my mind is saying research it more, learn more. I feel like I could do much a better job, if I have full understanding of the ONE I serve. I would love to learn Arabic, and read the Qur'an in its original language, but it takes years to learn a language. I'm rather stuck on what to do my friends. I don't want to jump right into it, and feel over-whelmed and therefor not be able to understand everything fully.

But, on the bright side, I have learnt so much from in one day.

Flame - It depends what that course would be? How would it be done, of course it intrests me friend!

Thanks again everyone, I have taken all your words to heart and will try my upmost to fullfill my duties as a human being - and make sure I know what I am doing. Thanks again.

May Allah guide you.

i know of some beautiful lectures by 2 brothers that adept at showing the beauty of the Qur'an and Islam.

we try to read Surat al Kahf every Friday, Brother Dr Bashar Shala give 4 lectures on it here, with constant reference to the Qur'an:
http://www.pleasantviewschool.com/me..._Surah_Al-Kahf

those are from the Reflections on Sories from the Qur'an:

http://www.pleasantviewschool.com/me...s%20of%20Quran

Dr Shala began his online postings in the early 00's with the Seerah, Life of Muhammad, pbuh:

http://www.pleasantviewschool.com/me...t%20%28pbuh%29

as those were his FIRST recordings put online, he has begun to redo them, which has been paused by the building of a new Masjid:

http://www.pleasantviewschool.com/me...wi%20%28saw%29

and the first Islamic speaker whose lectures strike my heart, Mufti Ismail Menk of Zimbabwe:

http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Downloads.html

those Tafseer lessons are quite good and there are some other nice lectures in theses sections:

http://www.nazirakoob.com/menk/Vol1.html

http://www.nazirakoob.com/menk/Vol2.html

http://www.nazirakoob.com/menk/SocialConduct.html

i hope you check these out and that and that you enjoy them.

wa Salaaam

[UnknownTruth]

i hope you check these out and that and that you enjoy them.

wa Salaaam

Thanks you friend, I will check them out soon. Thank you for your help.

[Perseveranze]

Peace,

Good read

http://www.islam101.com/religions/ch...ity/diffBQ.htm

[Insaanah]

Peace, and welcome to the forum.

I appreciate that you're probably a bit overwhelmed with all the resources being given to you, but I'm just going to add one that answers this question:

Is there any sites you could recomend to me that are like a story of the life of your phophet (pbuh) I would love to learn more, but my searches have only produced big long quotations of scholers.

http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/B..._tsn/index.htm

The above link is for the book "The sealed nectar", in Arabic Al-Raheeq Al-Makhtum, which is a biography of Prophet Muhammad (may be the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). You can read the entire book online under the chapter and section headings in that link. First of all it sets the scene and gives the background and history of society at that time, before embarking on the biography itself. You can see the chapter and section headings in the link.

Hope that helps a bit with regards to that question. Please do not hesitate to ask your other questions. We'll do our best to help.

Peace.

[UnknownTruth]

I just read that, nice read. and true! :)

[gmcbroom]

Unknown Truth, Read the Koran thoroughly. I say this because everyone should know what they follow. If after or while reading it you have questions then you should speak to educated muslims to help you with those questions. I'm a Christian. I don't follow Islam. But if you like what you read then learn more. You may grow to embrace Islam or you may walk away from it. The Catholic Church believes there are kernals of truth in all religions this includes Islam. Even if your faith is not my own. I still applaud your wanting to learn all you can.

Peace be with you.

[UnknownTruth]

Unknown Truth, Read the Koran thoroughly. I say this because everyone should know what they follow. If after or while reading it you have questions then you should speak to educated muslims to help you with those questions. I'm a Christian. I don't follow Islam. But if you like what you read then learn more. You may grow to embrace Islam or you may walk away from it. The Catholic Church believes there are kernals of truth in all religions this includes Islam. Even if your faith is not my own. I still applaud your wanting to learn all you can.

Peace be with you.

I am reading the Qur'an bro thank you though :)

[UnknownTruth]

Peace, and welcome to the forum.

I appreciate that you're probably a bit overwhelmed with all the resources being given to you, but I'm just going to add one that answers this question:

Peace.

Wow, that sounds intreiging (excuse my spelling 00:30 am here in uk) I will get started on that and some other stuff tommorow, aswell as my daily Qur'an read, hopfully I can learn well. Thank you! :)

[Muhammad]

Greetings UnknownTruth,

Welcome to the forum. It is great to hear of your interest in Islam and that you are reading the Qur'an. :)

Regarding the life of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), here is another website that might interest you. It's a very new resource which is interactive and quite unique:

http://www.prophetictimeline.com/
This page is about his description: http://www.prophetictimeline.com/Pro...ammadDescribed

May God guide you to the truth.

[Sol Invictus]

as has been stated already, you should read it if for no other reason then to understand where the other side is coming from. don't worry about what you have heard on the news or what so and so has told you concerning this book but merely read it and form your own judgement. in this life we can and only should follow what we sincerely believe to be true. read it and then think about the claims it makes. certainly no person will be able to judge you with as to whatever decision you subsequently make.

[AishaRayann]

Hi new friend. Theres lots of good advice on here. :) Well what I would like to add is...I'm a new muslim. I was confused for so long about religion..all my life really..i was even an atheist at one point and time...life is confusing...because life is hard...some harder than others...the pains we have in life confuse us more...I was Christian before Islam. There were several events that struck me powerfully. I was interested in Islam for years. I saw a video of Mekkah in world religions class at school..and it changed my life...Tears came to my eyes it was so beautiful..so many thosuands i guess millions praying all at once gave me so much peace that overwhelmed me with happyness that i cried in class....it felt so right..like nothing before..NOTHING!!! I think you should see beautiful video of Mekka at Hajj. I suggest looking at some videos of Hajj..and download quran recitations :::: assabile com/ my favorite reciter is Abdul Rahman AL Sudais

[UnknownTruth]

Hi new friend. Theres lots of good advice on here. :) Well what I would like to add is...I'm a new muslim. I was confused for so long about religion..all my life really..i was even an atheist at one point and time...life is confusing...because life is hard...some harder than others...the pains we have in life confuse us more...I was Christian before Islam. There were several events that struck me powerfully. I was interested in Islam for years. I saw a video of Mekkah in world religions class at school..and it changed my life...Tears came to my eyes it was so beautiful..so many thosuands i guess millions praying all at once gave me so much peace that overwhelmed me with happyness that i cried in class....it felt so right..like nothing before..NOTHING!!! I think you should see beautiful video of Mekka at Hajj. I suggest looking at some videos of Hajj..and download quran recitations :::: assabile com/ my favorite reciter is Abdul Rahman AL Sudais

Aw, that is a beautifull post, I can relate to you in so many ways! :)

[M.I.A.]

islam is the complete truth, without doubt.

may allah swt guide you to the straight path.. if you truly enter this religion in sincerity im sure he will.

[Woodrow]

I moved this back to Discover Islam as it does appear this should be an info and not debate thread. When I moved it to Comparative Religion, it seemed like a good topic for debate. But now I see it will serve btter as an info thread.

[Hamza Asadullah]

Hello there,

I am a new member here, I have come on these forums to learn about Islam, (I can't get it out of my head) As I said in my introduction I decided to read some of the Qur'an out of pure chance, and when I read it, a strange yet amazing feeling was felt in my heart, but I have a few concerns, and as you have probably guessed. It is about what the "other" religion says.

Please only reply if you feel comfortable

Okay, So I have read the Bible and this passage intreaged me -



Revelation 22:18 I warn every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,

Revelation 22:19 and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

So my question is, if the Qur'an says God's word can never be altered or changed, and it also says that the Bible is the word of God, just like the Qur'an then how can the Bible be tampered with? After all, the Qur'an sais NO word of God can be altered. The revelation passsage I quoted said nothing will be changed?

I am very confussed with life at the moment, I don't mean to sound rude by asking this question, it's just that Islam fasinates me, I've never felt anything like what I felt while reading the Qur'an. I only hope God can forgive me for my lack of understanding.

Peace, and thank you! :)

A very warm welcome to you,

With regards to your first question then we as Muslims do believe that the Bible contains the words of God and other material besides. So we as Muslims do not attack "God's Word" but rather we reject attributing the status of "God's Word'' to writings which do not qualify as such.

The Qur'an actually talks about "the Book" of the Christian and Jews but it does not say the Bible. The title "Bible" is a name not found in the Bible. Nowhere does the Bible name itself as a unit. Actually it is at least 66 separate writings which have been bound as one book. The Bible doesnt even sum itself up as totally God's word and about one third of the books in the Bible claim to be divine revelations while the others make no such comment. So it CANNOT be called totally divine and it does not even claim to be.

The Qur'an is actually a confirmation of previous scriptures and a "control" meaning "rejection of the disqualified". The Qur'an is called the criterion for judging the false in other scriptures (Qur'an 3:3).

So judging by the fact that most of the Bible is actually the words of man hundreds of years after Jesus and also even Christian scholars confirm that they are not even sure who the authors of the Gospels are nor are they sure of the exact dates they were written so the authenticity of the Gospels are extremely questionable as attested to by Christian scholars themselves.

The Bible is a collection of writings by many different authors. The Qur'an is a dictation. The speaker in the Qur'an - in the first person - is God talking directly to man.

Islam is not like Judaism or Christianity which have numerous sects and denominations all having differing views of the fundamentals of their faith which are not even consistant with their own scriptures.

Whereas the fundamental beliefs of Islam are consistant with the teachings of God in the Qur'an and the message of ALL of the Prophets of God including Jesus and that was to establish the oneness of God.

The following links are Free Islamic E books and Resources for you to look through and read for your own knowledge and search for the truth:


http://www.islamreligion.com/category/49/



Introduction to Islam

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/servi..._p1.aspx#link2



Download the full Qur'an - Abdullah Yusuf Ali

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/free_...yusuf_ali2.pdf




The Benefits of Islam

http://www.islamreligion.com/categor...FUEa4Qod92u9Aw




How I Embraced Islam

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/servi..._p1.aspx#link3



How to Convert to Islam and Become a Muslim

http://www.islamreligion.com/article...FUEb4QodwHxFCg



Islamic resources in different Foreign Languages


http://www.islamicbulletin.org/services/foreign.htm



The Holy Quran

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/servi..._p1.aspx#link1




Quranic Science

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/servi..._p2.aspx#link4




The Prophet Mohammed (pbuh)

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/servi..._p2.aspx#link5




Companions of the Prophet (Sahabah)

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/servi..._p3.aspx#link8




Men in Islam

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/servi...p3.aspx#link16




Women in Islam

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/servi..._p3.aspx#link7




Islam: Beliefs and Teachings

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/free_..._teachings.pdf




Ramadan (Fasting)

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/servi..._p3.aspx#link9




Prayer (Salat)

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/servi...p3.aspx#link10




Hajj (Pilgrimage)

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/servi...p4.aspx#link11




Zakat (Poor Due)

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/servi...p4.aspx#link12




Children

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/servi...p4.aspx#link13




Islamic Resources and Hadith

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/servi..._p2.aspx#link6




More wonderful Islamic resources:

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/servi...p4.aspx#link14

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/servi...p4.aspx#link15



If there is any help you need or any questions you have then please do not hesitate to ask. Thank you

[UnknownTruth]

Wow! there is so much information there, thank you very much for sharing, and thank you for the explanation.

I will try and look at all of them links, but I have received so much help from wonderfull people on this forum it is going to take a while to get through everything. In regards to questions, I only have one that is on my mind, what is the Qur'ans postion on Music? I hear some people claiming it's not allowed, others saying it is. Is a Qur'an recitation classed as music?

Thank you again very much. Peace

[Woodrow]

Wow! there is so much information there, thank you very much for sharing, and thank you for the explanation.

I will try and look at all of them links, but I have received so much help from wonderfull people on this forum it is going to take a while to get through everything. In regards to questions, I only have one that is on my mind, what is the Qur'ans postion on Music? I hear some people claiming it's not allowed, others saying it is. Is a Qur'an recitation classed as music?

Thank you again very much. Peace

For the most part Music is forbidden. Especially and more specifically music accompanied by musical instruments. Singing is generally acceptable depending upon the context, audience and intent of the singer.

Some examples of songs found acceptable by most scholars:

[peaceandlove]

So my question is, if the Qur'an says God's word can never be altered or changed, and it also says that the Bible is the word of God, just like the Qur'an then how can the Bible be tampered with? After all, the Qur'an sais NO word of God can be altered. The revelation passsage I quoted said nothing will be changed?

I am very confussed with life at the moment, I don't mean to sound rude by asking this question, it's just that Islam fasinates me, I've never felt anything like what I felt while reading the Qur'an. I only hope God can forgive me for my lack of understanding.

Peace, and thank you! :)

:sl:

Well, while reading the verse 10:64 in my own language (urdu) as you know translation is done by human (I donot know arabic) so sometime different scholars use different words for translation the idea that I get is that these words might have some other meaning too which might you donot pay attention and post what you get the meaing that is ,

It can also mean that No body can overrule or no one can frustrate His plans or nullify His wishes.

Allah know the best, I am just saying what came into my mind by reading its meaing. Please guide me if I am wrong some where.

[Grace Seeker]

Unknown Truth, I too am delighted to hear of your search for faith and desire to know God. I am a Christian pastor, but with others here encourage you to indeed read the Qur'an if this is where you feel led to begin this journey you are on. Let it speak to your heart and mind both. Islam professes to be a religion of logic, so ask yourself about the logic of what you have read, does it make sense with what God himself is speaking to your heart. If so, then nothing should dissuade you from continuing in your journey. If not, let God continue to guide you as you keep seeking him.

I believe that you will find much truth in Islam. Of course I do not believe you find the complete truth there or I would be Muslim myself, but the complete truth cannot be found in any book or religion because only God alone is truly truth. All othe forms you meet are derivatives of him. So, let Islam lead you as far in that searth for the unknown truth as it can take you.

A word about some of the dangers of that journey. Just as I would not send you to an anti-Islamic website to learn the truth with regard to Islam, and believe that you need to let Islam speak for itself, so I would caution you do not let Islam tell you what is or is not true of other religions. For instance, Woodrow speaks correctly when he says that Islam does not believe the Bible that you could pick up and read today is a Holy Book from God. But that does not mean that it isn't. Only that Islam does not think it is. If you do consider it a Holy Book, perhaps you need to read it for yourself as well, let it speak to you on its own terms. And while no doubt you will find some things in there that are confusing as well. Be sure to let those who are followers of the book help you to understand the book, rather than someone who follows a different book explain a book they do not themselves follow.

But for today, my you find guidance as you continue to search and grown in knowledge of this still unknown truth.

[ayesha.ansari]

Well all threads generated here is great source of information, but i love to answer the first thread in which the person ask GOd wods can never be altered then how bible is tempered. All 3 books send by GOD(ALLAH) is send by hm but not guarded by him that's why people change according to their need when ALLAH was sending his last messenger He want some thing that will brief or guide people till the ending of this world so ALLAH take a decision to guard this last book so no one can change a single word through it.

[UnknownTruth]

Thanks for those links Woodrow, I like A is for Allah, I heard it when I was searching about Cat Stevens conversion/reversion to Islam.
Grace Seeker, thank you. The truth is I imagine in myself searching for Unknown truth for months to come, if I am going to be serving God, I want to make sure I know what I am doing, if you understand.
Thanks everyone for your help, I have been checking out the links posted, and I like them alot. Peace to you all.