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Junon
05-22-2011, 11:24 PM
Salaam

Sad to see the lengths secularised Muslims (if that's not a contradiction in terms) will go to ape after secular society and its values.

Sixteen reasons why I object to this dangerous cover-up

A dress code for Muslim women when in public institutions would free up our faith from the grip of fanatics and reintegrate us into our country


Years ago, I warned that the simple headscarf (hijab) was but the first step to full fabric incarceration. I was mocked and disparaged then by Muslim adherents, as well as many on the left. To them, such challenges to cultural practices validate bigotry and threaten liberties. Their laudable concern makes criticism impossibly difficult. Now they are everywhere, ravens, in burka (long cloaks) and niqab (face veils), their little girls scarved and in cumbersome long coats (in training, I am told) for that big day when they too can go into prisons of black polyester. They will be smiling, one mother of four daughters said to me. Or they may be crying, I said, and nobody will see either.

Here is a list of my main objections

1. While modesty is required of Muslim men and women and men are asked to "lower their gazes", there is no injunction to hide the hair, and the verses on coverings have different interpretations. The Prophet's wives were veiled to stop harassers and supplicants. Saudis use big money to push their fanatically anti-woman Islam in this country. Each niqab is one more win in that assault on hearts and minds.

2. Iranian, Afghan, Saudi and other Muslim women are beaten and tortured for the smallest sartorial transgression. European Muslims donning the niqab are giving succour to the oppressors in those countries.

3. They say it stops molestation and is a mark of respect. Oh yeah? So tell me why there are appalling levels of rape and violence in Muslim lands. And by implication do we, European women who don't cover, therefore deserve molestation?

4. It is a form of female apartheid, of selected segregation tacitly saying non-veiled women are pollutants. There is such a thing as society and we connect with our faces. A veiled female withholds herself from that contact and reads our faces, thus gaining power over the rest of us.

5. "Choice" cannot be the only consideration. And anyway, there is no evidence that all the women are making rational, independent decisions. As with forced marriages, they can't refuse. Some are blackmailed and others obey because they are too scared to say what they really want. Some are convinced they will go to hell if they show themselves. Some bloody choice.

6. It sexualises girls and women in the same way as "erotic" garb does and is just as obscene.

7. When a woman is fully shrouded, how do we know if she is a victim of domestic violence?

8. God gave women femininity and individuality. Why should we bury those gifts? How grotesque to ask a women to parcel herself up and be opened up by only her husband.

9. What an insult this is to Muslim men – the accusation that they will jump any woman not protected with a cloth. Are we to assume that sexuality snakes around every male-female contact, even between a surgeon and patient, bank clerk and customer, teacher and pupil?

10. When on hajj in Mecca, men and unveiled women pray together. The Saudis want to change that.

11. The niqab is pre-Islamic, was worn byupper-class Byzantine women to keep away from riff-raff.

12. Muslim women in the 1920s and 1930s threw off these garments to claim freedom – my mother's generation. Their struggles are dishonoured by brainwashed females.

13. Veil supporters say they are going back to the original Islamic texts and lives. But they don't ride camels, and have mobile phones and computers. So they can embrace modernity but refuse to on this.

14. These women who fight for their rights to veil do not fight for the rights of those of us who won't.

15. They say it is free will, but in three private Muslim schools in Britain, girls have to wear niqab and are punished for not obeying. The same is true in many families and communities.

16. Most importantly, all these cloth casingsaccept that females are dangerous and evil, that their presence only creates inner and outer havoc in men and public spaces. All religions believe that to some extent. Feminists must fight these prejudices.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...p-2261444.html
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Rhubarb Tart
05-22-2011, 11:38 PM
I read this before. This woman is simply mad. Live and let live.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
05-22-2011, 11:51 PM
This is upsetting..I just wasted my time reading something that was of no benefit rather a childish rant about what 'someone' thinks.. and based upon no goodness, someone needs to concentrate on the goodness and not rant, all the points were basless.
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al yunan
05-23-2011, 10:27 AM
How hard would it be to find out her E mail or contact ?
Where is Karl when you need him ?
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Cabdullahi
05-23-2011, 10:41 AM
who the flip is yasmin ali baba
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May Ayob
05-23-2011, 11:10 AM
Salaam to all

I think this is very stupid, Isn't their society supposed to be seculair i.e Freedom to all, well a woman is free to wear the burqa , the niqab or whatever and they dont have the right to stop , her from getting her basic rights , education a chance to get a job ..etc

I dont know what they are so scared about it is very funny though , as for the hijab i didnt understand very well , but i think a womans life is way better covering her body than exposing it and being used like a piece of trash that men throw around.

Salaam
Reply

May Ayob
05-23-2011, 11:14 AM
6. It sexualises girls and women in the same way as "erotic" garb does and is just as obscene.

How is covering up you body makes you look erotic? thats not true at all , excpet if the woman is wearing it in a way to grab peoples attention by wearing make up putting perfume and softening her voice which is all not the dress code of a muslim woman , but rather the hijab does make people respect you not vice vera, i think if she wants to see obscenec things she should just look down the street and see what modern day women are wearing this is considered as obscene they barely cover anything in their bodies especially in summer time.

Salaam
Reply

GuestFellow
05-23-2011, 11:38 AM
Originally Posted by thequietone
who the flip is yasmin ali baba
Salaam,

She is a member of British Muslims for Secular Democracy. :/
Reply

yas2010
05-23-2011, 11:41 AM


and the elements of the british press love her and trolley her out when they want to muslim bash. She pushes my levels of tolerance....:raging:
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Insaanah
05-23-2011, 11:53 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by thequietone
who the flip is yasmin ali baba
Yasmin Alibhai-Brown is a member of the Ismaili faith. Wikipedia entry here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasmin_Alibhai-Brown
Reply

al yunan
05-23-2011, 12:36 PM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
:sl:
Yasmin Alibhai-Brown is a member of the Ismaili faith. Wikipedia entry here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasmin_Alibhai-Brown
Ismailis are concidered Muslims in Britain ?
Reply

GuestFellow
05-23-2011, 12:47 PM
The suffering of Shia Muslims is heartbreaking

^ Yes, she is Shia and married to a Christian. :/
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Muhaba
05-23-2011, 01:07 PM
where is freedom of religion ? if they place dress code on muslim women, it means taking away our freedom to follow our religion, our freedom to dress as we like, etc
this is really ther clearest form of oppression
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Ramadhan
05-23-2011, 01:45 PM
In Indonesia, members of the so-called liberal or secular muslims do not even usually pray 5 times a day, and don't even believe 100% in the qur'an, let alone sunnah.
Their mutual goal is to make Islam "modern" and "compatible" with modern (ie. western) living.
Reply

al yunan
05-23-2011, 03:52 PM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
The suffering of Shia Muslims is heartbreaking

^ Yes, she is Shia and married to a Christian. :/

Salam to all,

I have no idea how to respond reading something like this, as most people I guess are in deep midnight as to the true motives and history of the Ismaili, as for the following title "the suffering of Shia.......... I don't know how naive one must be to feel sympathy.
How dumb do these people think we are ?

Masalam
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
05-23-2011, 06:15 PM
Here is my refutation of each point Yasmin has made against the niqaab:


Originally Posted by Yasmin Alibbai-Brown

1. While modesty is required of Muslim men and women and men are asked to "lower their gazes", there is no injunction to hide the hair, and the verses on coverings have different interpretations. The Prophet's wives were veiled to stop harassers and supplicants. Saudis use big money to push their fanatically anti-woman Islam in this country. Each niqab is one more win in that assault on hearts and minds.
It is a consensus among classical and most modern day scholars for the past 1400 years that the verses refer to the covering of the hair and body. So please learn the basics of Islam before giving us a false interpretation of what you think those verses imply. Each time people like you insult the niqaab then it is just one more assault on the hearts and minds of Muslims all over the world.

Originally Posted by Yasmin Alibbai-Brown
2. Iranian, Afghan, Saudi and other Muslim women are beaten and tortured for the smallest sartorial transgression. European Muslims donning the niqab are giving succour to the oppressors in those countries.
Why don't you do a survey of 1000 women who wear niqaab and see how many of them wear the niqaab out of choice. You will most certainly find that without a shadow of a doubt most women who wear niqaab wear it out of their own choice. So you are giving succour to those who mock any Muslim women who wears niqaab.

Originally Posted by Yasmin Alibbai-Brown
3. They say it stops molestation and is a mark of respect. Oh yeah? So tell me why there are appalling levels of rape and violence in Muslim lands. And by implication do we, European women who don't cover, therefore deserve molestation?
I wonder where you got your statistics from because there is NO doubt that rape in the west is FAR more prevalent than rape in Muslim lands. You talk about molestation when women in the west are forced to conform to an ideal that they have to wear skimpy skirts, fake nails, fake tan, fake everythihng and have to"look" in a certain way in order to "fit in" to how the society wants them to be.


As a consequence the west has the biggest bolemia and anorexia rates in the world and highest frequency of rapes and violence against women as well as complex networks of child paedophile rings who prey on the fact that the western societies "sexualise" 11-12 year olds, so much so that now you have very young girls wearing make up and skimpy clothing and the result is an increase in child molestation, rape, the highest levels of teen pregnancy's in the world. These high levels have become a VERY big concern for governments.

So please give everyone an accurate picture of the west before you go falsely accusing Muslim countries of having such problems which are NO comparison at all to what is going on in western societies.

Originally Posted by Yasmin Alibbai-Brown
4. It is a form of female apartheid, of selected segregation tacitly saying non-veiled women are pollutants. There is such a thing as society and we connect with our faces. A veiled female withholds herself from that contact and reads our faces, thus gaining power over the rest of us.
Can you provide evidence of where in the Qur'an and Sunnah those women who do not cover are seen as pollutants?

You are correct in that a veiled female has empowered herself and is therefore free from having to feel that she must conform to how the society wants her to be and look like. These women are far more "free" and "liberated" than those women who are constrained by the very secular society they live in to have to conform and be in a certain way and as such have become "prey" for men and have lowered themselves instead of gaining freedom.

Originally Posted by Yasmin Alibbai-Brown
5. "Choice" cannot be the only consideration. And anyway, there is no evidence that all the women are making rational, independent decisions. As with forced marriages, they can't refuse. Some are blackmailed and others obey because they are too scared to say what they really want. Some are convinced they will go to hell if they show themselves. Some bloody choice.
Again as I have mentioned above why do you not ask a 1000 women who wear niqaab and ask them whether they are forced to wear it or whether they wore it out of choice. I guarantee you that you will find that the vast majority of them wear it out of free choice.

You are just making baseless assumptions and playing on media stereo types which is grossly false and misleading.

If we live in a democracy and those women who CHOOSE to wear it out of their OWN FREE WILL then WHY are you denying them that right? Answer the question directly!

Originally Posted by Yasmin Alibbai-Brown
6. It sexualises girls and women in the same way as "erotic" garb does and is just as obscene.
You mean like how in western societies OF TODAY which "sexualise" 11-12 year old girls? Nowadays the western societies have introduced skimpy skirts and clothing which reveal all for 11-12 year olds in an aim to sexualise them.

This has caused nothing more than increase child molestation, child rape and has caused the western societies to have the highest levels of teen pregnancy's in the world and these levels are only increasing so much so that they are now reaching levels of great concern to the governments.

Young girls 'sexualised' by clothing and toy manufacturers

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/45...facturers.html

Sexualisation of Culture breeds Sexual Violence

http://www.islam21c.com/islamic-thou...exual-violence

So do we want our societies to end up like this? NO THANKS. You can keep such a society. In our societies a Muslim women is most honoured and is free from having to conform to the way society wants her to be. She conforms to the way her creator wants her to be and ONLY pleases her creator and not the people in the societies she lives in.

A child is brought up with good morals, values and principles and is not brought up to be forced to have to conform to having to dress up in such a filthy and inappropriate manner or made to feel like that are "outcasts" if they do not do so. So much pressure is on women and young girls today for them to have be and look a "certain way" in order to be accepted as the "norm". What a sad thing to have to force women and young girls in such a deceptive way.

Originally Posted by Yasmin Alibbai-Brown
7. When a woman is fully shrouded, how do we know if she is a victim of domestic violence?
You mean how women are beaten by their drunk husbands in the west and as such western societies have the most prevalent cases of domestic violence in the world. The cause of alcohol is the biggest contributor to domestic violence in the west and these high numbers are only rising. Try again

Originally Posted by Yasmin Alibbai-Brown
8. God gave women femininity and individuality. Why should we bury those gifts? How grotesque to ask a women to parcel herself up and be opened up by only her husband.
God also gave women a high status and honour so that she does not "flaunt" or reveal her all to every person in the street. She is free from having to lower herself like that. A women is a beautiful jewel who's beauty is ONLY reserved for her immediate family and husband. No other person has a right to "perv" over her just like how in today's societies are breeding more and more paedophiles by forcing young girls to dress in skimpy clothing.

So our women are honoured and treated with the highest of respect. They hold onto their chastity and do not give it away at 11 or 12 like how in western societies young girls are having sex at that age so much so that pregnancy's at such a young age are on the increase at worrying levels. What a lot of schools are now doing is forcing such young girls and boys to take condoms because of the fact that pregnancy at such a young age are becoming so prevalent. What a sad state of affairs.

Originally Posted by Yasmin Alibbai-Brown
9. What an insult this is to Muslim men – the accusation that they will jump any woman not protected with a cloth. Are we to assume that sexuality snakes around every male-female contact, even between a surgeon and patient, bank clerk and customer, teacher and pupil?
As Muslims we see prevention as better than cure. If you have a society where there is no unnecessary free mixing then you have gone a long way in significantly reducing the consequences of many of what is prevalent in the western societies of today such as the highest rates of teen pregnancy, rape, molestation, sexual assault and many other horrors.

As Muslims we prevent our societies from ever becoming like that hence why free mixing is minimised and there is no unnecessary free mixing. The west can learn a lot from the Islamic model especially because of the worrying trends of the cases mentioned prevalent today.

Originally Posted by Yasmin Alibbai-Brown
10. When on hajj in Mecca, men and unveiled women pray together. The Saudis want to change that.
Free mixing during Hajj when such a high number of people are present is unavoidable but the women there are usually accompanied by their family's, fathers, brothers or husbands anyway.

Originally Posted by Yasmin Alibbai-Brown
11. The niqab is pre-Islamic, was worn byupper-class Byzantine women to keep away from riff-raff.
Islam started from Adam (As) not Muhammad (Pbuh). The Qur'an is the last of the revelations on earth and the Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) the seal of the Prophets. The Qur'an nand the sunnah did not come to "obliterate everything" before it but to uphold the good and eradicate the bad and evils of society. Just like those byzantinian women wore similar to niqaab in order to protect their honour, dignity, respect and chastity then in the same way Muslim women wear the niqaab today.

Originally Posted by Yasmin Alibbai-Brown
12. Muslim women in the 1920s and 1930s threw off these garments to claim freedom – my mother's generation. Their struggles are dishonoured by brainwashed females.
Clearly this is a deception. It is clear these women were attracted by secularism and therefore became "secularist" and brainwashed by the societies they lived in thinking that by uncovering themselves they are "free" but in actual fact they have become "imprisoned" by the society they thought would give them freedom. These secularist societies subliminally "force" such women and young girls to have to conform to the way that society wants them to think, feel and look like and so that is why they feel such immense pressure by their own society in order to conform. I do not call that freedom at all but a clear deception.

Muslim women who wear hijaab or niqaab are free from having to feel they have to conform to the ideals and wants of the secularist societies they live in and they do not feel they have to "please" the people but ONLY to please their creator. Their creator has given them true freedom and honour and that is why women like yourself are in fact deeply jealous of this freedom and so the only way you know is to "hate" it and mock those who wear it.

Originally Posted by Yasmin Alibbai-Brown
13. Veil supporters say they are going back to the original Islamic texts and lives. But they don't ride camels, and have mobile phones and computers. So they can embrace modernity but refuse to on this.
Islam is a dynamic way of life meaning it adapts to ANY period of time until the very last day of the existence of earth. This shows Islam to be valid from the first man Adam until the very last man on earth. It does not change its ideals, morals, ethics and principles and certainly does not change its fundamentals like the church has always done and still continues to do. It certainly does adopt beneficial scientific and technological change for Islam was at the forefront of technological and scientific advancement, development and discovery in its golden ages in the past.

One will still see some Muslim countries who carry out the latest in scientific research and technological advancement and this is slowly improving and the time will come once again when Islam is at the forefront of science and technology and there is no doubt that its golden age will return.

Originally Posted by Yasmin Alibbai-Brown
14. These women who fight for their rights to veil do not fight for the rights of those of us who won't.
Those women who fight for women's right do NOT fight for the rights of those women who WANT to wear the niqaab out of their own free will and choice. Rather it is women like you who are causing further oppression to any women who wants to wear the niqaab.

They have EVERY right to wear the niqaab if they want to and you would be a complete hypocrite if you were to say otherwise when you talk about "freedom" then WHERE is the freedom for any women wanting to wear niqaab?


Originally Posted by Yasmin Alibbai-Brown
15. They say it is free will, but in three private Muslim schools in Britain, girls have to wear niqab and are punished for not obeying. The same is true in many families and communities.
So you mention 3 Muslim private schools and "some" families? What about the THOUSANDS who WANT TO WEAR THE NIQAAB OUT OF THEIR OWN FREE CHOICE? What will you say about them? Are they NOT allowed to do what they choose to do? Yes or no?


Originally Posted by Yasmin Alibbai-Brown
16. Most importantly, all these cloth casings accept that females are dangerous and evil, that their presence only creates inner and outer havoc in men and public spaces. All religions believe that to some extent. Feminists must fight these prejudices.

Throughout the human history prior to Islam, women have been victimized and made to suffer too much. They endured unbearable deprivation, sorrow and oppression in all past civilizations. In other words, they were treated as if they were not human beings.

The Greeks said regarding a woman: She is like a poisonous tree and she is evil emanated from Satan. She may be sold like any merchandise.

For the Romans: She does not have a soul. They would torture women by pouring boiling oil on them or dragging them by horses.

For the Chinese: She is cursed water that washes away good fortune. A Chinese man would have the right to bury his wife alive. If a man were to die, his wife would be passed on as inheritance.

For the Indians: A woman is worse than death, hell, and fire. A woman didn’t have the right to live after her death. Therefore, she had to be burned along with his corpse.

For the Persians: It is permissible to marry any of the female relatives without exception (incest). A Persian husband could command his wife to die.

The Jews said:
A woman is a curse because she is the cause of sin and temptation. She is impure during her menses. It is permissible for her father to sell her.

The Christians: The French held a discussion in 568 A.D. Some of the issues discussed were: Is a woman a human or not? Does she have soul or not? If she has a soul, is it a human soul or an animal soul? And if it is a human soul then is it equal to a man’s soul lower than it? Finally, after long deliberation, they came to the conclusion that she is human, but she was created only to serve man.

During the rule of King Henry VIII of England, the Parliament decided that it is unlawful for women to read the New Testament (Bible) because she is impure.

As for the Arabs before Islam: They hated women more than death. They used to burry female infants alive or threw them into an abandoned well.

Islam: The True Liberator of women

After this long history of injustice, Allaah, the Most Exalted showered His Mercy on humanity by a Religion (Islam) the teaching of which came to change the ugly human history and to create a life which humanity had never witnessed before in all its civilizations.

Women in the Quran:

The Noble Quran, Muslims' Infallible Book revealed by Almighty Allaah, is replete with verses speaking about women, which indicates the honorable status Islam holds for them. There is a full Soorah (Chapter) named: "Women". This Chapter is among the longest ones in the Quran. Hereunder are some of such verses (which mean):

  • {…And due to the wives is similar to what is expected of them, according to what is reasonable.} [Quran 2:228]
  • {…And live with them in kindness.} [Quran 4:19]
  • {…do not prevent them… (from remarrying their [former] husbands if they agree among themselves on an acceptable basis).}[Quran 4:19]
  • {…But give them [a gift of] compensation - the wealthy according to his capability and the poor according to his capability.}[Quran 2:236]
  • {Lodge them [in a section] of where you dwell out of your means and do not harm them in order to oppress them.}[Quran 65:6]
  • {…give them their due compensation as an obligation.}[Quran 4:24]
  • {… and for women is a share of what the parents and close relatives leave.}[Quran 4:7]
  • {…for women is a share of what they have earned.}[Quran 4:32]
  • {…and give them from the wealth of Allaah which He has given you.} [Quran 24:33]
  • {… and you (husbands) are their (wives) garments.}[Quran 2:187]
  • {…seek not against them means (of annoyance).}[Quran 4:34]
  • {…it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion…} [Quran 4:19]
  • {And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them…} [Quran 4:19]
  • {…either you retain her on reasonable terms or release her with kindness.}[Quran 2:229]


Women in the Sunnah (Prophetic Tradition)

The Prophet of Islam, Muhammad was sent by Allaah Almighty, among many other things, to elevate the status of women and maintain their honour.

He was once asked: "Who is the most beloved person to you, O Messenger of Allaah?" He replied: "Aa'ishah".

Whenever he was given a gift or something he would say: "Take this to so and so because she was a friend of Khadeejah’s (his wife )" [as a token of his loyalty to her after death].

He said:

  • "Treat women good."[Al-Bukhaari and Muslim]
  • "The best amongst you is the one who treats his family the best, and I treat my family the best".[At-Tirmithi and others]
  • "You (men) are responsible for providing for them (women) in the best way". [Muslim]
  • "The most rewarding wealth is the wealth you spend on your family".[Ahmad]
  • "From the good fortune of the man is a righteous wife".[At-Tayaalisi]
  • "Whatever you spend (on your family) is counted as a charity, even the morsel of food that you feed your wife".[Maalik]


A woman came to the Prophet and said: "O Prophet of Allaah, pray for me and my husband." The Prophet said: "May Allaah shower His blessings upon you and your husband".[Ahmad]

'Aai'shah narrated: "The Prophet and I would bathe together from the same basin".[Ahmad, Ibn Maajah and others]


I hope Yasmin will read my refutations of her points. She has clearly become blinded by the very society she "claims" gave her and her mother freedom when all she wants is to STOP the freedom for THOUSANDS of women who FREELY CHOOSE to wear niqaab out of their own will and choice. Pure and utter hypocrisy.
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yas2010
05-23-2011, 06:42 PM
Thank you brother Hamza for that. :)
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Rhubarb Tart
05-23-2011, 06:45 PM
:sl:

I hate when people (non Muslims and Muslims) include rape in the discussion about nigab. Jsk Hamza
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جوري
05-23-2011, 08:29 PM
Will her diatribe halt Muslim women from wearing Hijab or Niqaab? Is it meant to elicit a response? I think this is how she butters her breads, we're not obliged to dignify it or contribute to it, she's clearly catering to a particular type of audience and we're not it! ..

:w:
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al yunan
05-24-2011, 06:12 AM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
Will her diatribe halt Muslim women from wearing Hijab or Niqaab? Is it meant to elicit a response? I think this is how she butters her breads, we're not obliged to dignify it or contribute to it, she's clearly catering to a particular type of audience and we're not it! ..

:w:
Assalamu Alaikum sister t.v.l,

Thank you for pointing that out for we only encourage and embolden our enemies by taking notice of them.
The best thing we can do as you mention is to totally ignore these kind of people.
As taught to us by our prophet s.a.w the best thing to do with human devils is to ignore them.

Masalam
Reply

Ramadhan
05-24-2011, 06:34 AM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
Will her diatribe halt Muslim women from wearing Hijab or Niqaab? Is it meant to elicit a response? I think this is how she butters her breads, we're not obliged to dignify it or contribute to it, she's clearly catering to a particular type of audience and we're not it! ..

:wa:

very true. She most likely wrote those opinions for the benefits of those who pay her.

It is the same here in Indonesia, the liberal/secular muslim "intellectuals" who frequently write/speak in public spheres where they condone unlimited interfaith marriages, approve homosexualities, saying that all beliefs are the same, qur'an and sunnah must be interpreted in current conditions etc are usually funded by various western organizations/governments.
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Junon
05-24-2011, 10:21 AM
Salaam

Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
Will her diatribe halt Muslim women from wearing Hijab or Niqaab? Is it meant to elicit a response? I think this is how she butters her breads, we're not obliged to dignify it or contribute to it, she's clearly catering to a particular type of audience and we're not it! ..

:w:
I have to disagree, if we dont answer then it gives the impression that we have no defence for the positions we hold.

I agree that most of these diatribes are little more than 'baiting', however the flip side is that some of the arguments made by the opposition do have substance. Its important to understand these arguments so that we can answer them, as brother Hamza has done.
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Hamza Asadullah
05-24-2011, 10:30 AM
Even the other side needs to hear the truth for it maybe that once they see the truth that Allah opens their heart. Bare in mind that many reverts of today were the biggest enemies and haters of Islam until their hearts were unsealed so surely we must continue to give dawah as Allah has prescribed in the Quran in the most beautiful and best of ways using wisdom and tact for whos speech could be better that those who invite in the way of Allah.
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S_87
05-24-2011, 07:09 PM
i hate those coconuts!
Originally Posted by Junon

1. While modesty is required of Muslim men and women and men are asked to "lower their gazes", there is no injunction to hide the hair, and the verses on coverings have different interpretations. The Prophet's wives were veiled to stop harassers and supplicants. Saudis use big money to push their fanatically anti-woman Islam in this country. Each niqab is one more win in that assault on hearts and minds.
if she had actually read the Quran she would have noticed the ayah refers to The Prophets sallallahu alayhi wasallams wives daughters AND the women of believers.


2. Iranian, Afghan, Saudi and other Muslim women are beaten and tortured for the smallest sartorial transgression. European Muslims donning the niqab are giving succour to the oppressors in those countries
.
all around the world women are abused for various reasons. The niqab is not the reason and claiming women are TORTURED for this is baseless



3. They say it stops molestation and is a mark of respect. Oh yeah? So tell me why there are appalling levels of rape and violence in Muslim lands. And by implication do we, European women who don't cover, therefore deserve molestation?
she totally doesnt understand prevention is better than cure. Nowhere is it allowed to molest anyone uncovered


4. It is a form of female apartheid, of selected segregation tacitly saying non-veiled women are pollutants. There is such a thing as society and we connect with our faces. A veiled female withholds herself from that contact and reads our faces, thus gaining power over the rest of us.
well put a veil on then!

5. "Choice" cannot be the only consideration. And anyway, there is no evidence that all the women are making rational, independent decisions. As with forced marriages, they can't refuse. Some are blackmailed and others obey because they are too scared to say what they really want. Some are convinced they will go to hell if they show themselves. Some bloody choice
.
again this can be put in different situations, does she speak against them too?

6. It sexualises girls and women in the same way as "erotic" garb does and is just as obscene.
ermm. ok.

7. When a woman is fully shrouded, how do we know if she is a victim of domestic violence?
alot of women in the west are victims of domestic violence and have been for years. is she able to spot a victim of domestic violence just by seeing her facE?

8. God gave women femininity and individuality. Why should we bury those gifts? How grotesque to ask a women to parcel herself up and be opened up by only her husband.
we can look at it the other way- Allah gave women bodies as treasures, not something to flaunt to everyone. To a level she herself 'parcels' up unless she has no problem getting naked for anyone.

9. What an insult this is to Muslim men – the accusation that they will jump any woman not protected with a cloth. Are we to assume that sexuality snakes around every male-female contact, even between a surgeon and patient, bank clerk and customer, teacher and pupil?
again thats stupid. its not an insult. as a woman can she spot a potential rapist? no?
well islam values our women too much to let the risk of being raped happen and protects us
its not just about molestation. its also preservation of society. how many inappropriate relations do we see between the sexes in the workplace, at school etc.

10. When on hajj in Mecca, men and unveiled women pray together. The Saudis want to change that.
i assumed she means in ihram?
In ihram a man is only permitted to wear 2 pieces of cloth-something not normal for everyday
sexual relations are prohibited, as are any marriage talks
whats her point?


11. The niqab is pre-Islamic, was worn byupper-class Byzantine women to keep away from riff-raff.
sure it may have been a cultural practice before islam. but islam made it a religious practice

12. Muslim women in the 1920s and 1930s threw off these garments to claim freedom – my mother's generation. Their struggles are dishonoured by brainwashed females.
how is it dishonoured? because some women wanted to unveil we should be grateful to them?
in that case THEY are the ones who dishonoured the women before them

13. Veil supporters say they are going back to the original Islamic texts and lives. But they don't ride camels, and have mobile phones and computers. So they can embrace modernity but refuse to on this.
again the stupid woman doesnt know the difference between RELIGIOUS innovations and technology that has nothing to do with religion

14. These women who fight for their rights to veil do not fight for the rights of those of us who won't.
you fight for what you believe in. and women only have to fight for our rights to veil because people wont back off and leave muslim women alone

15. They say it is free will, but in three private Muslim schools in Britain, girls have to wear niqab and are punished for not obeying. The same is true in many families and communities.
this is looking at uniforms. if the parents send their kids to a school where they know thats part of the uniform then they made that agreement.

16. Most importantly, all these cloth casings accept that females are dangerous and evil, that their presence only creates inner and outer havoc in men and public spaces. All religions believe that to some extent. Feminists must fight these prejudices.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...p-2261444.html[/QUOTE]

nope. females are to be protected and honoured and the veil gives this.


I have no problem with people who dont want to wear the veils themselvs. but stop accusing and bringing down those who do want to wear it!
Reply

GuestFellow
05-24-2011, 07:22 PM
Salaam,

7. When a woman is fully shrouded, how do we know if she is a victim of domestic
violence?
This has to be the most stupidest thing I've heard...
Reply

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