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Flame of Hope
06-01-2011, 02:54 AM
:sl:

"Is music haram?"

"Are photos haram?"

"Is talking to person of the opposite sex haram?"

"Are dogs haram?"

"Is alcohol haram?"

"Is TV haram?"

"Are videos haram?"

..............

Group A scholars say yes. Group B scholars say no. Group C scholars say there is something wrong with these questions.

Which group do you support?
Reply

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'Abd Al-Maajid
06-01-2011, 03:18 AM
Originally Posted by Flame
:sl:

"Is music haram?"
Group A
"Are photos haram?"
Group C
"Is talking to person of the opposite sex haram?"
Group C
"Are dogs haram?"
Group A
"Is alcohol haram?"
Group A
"Is TV haram?"
Group C
"Are videos haram?"
Group C
..............

Group A scholars say yes. Group B scholars say no. Group C scholars say there is something wrong with these questions.

Which group do you support?
Pointless question.
Reply

sister herb
06-01-2011, 03:39 AM
I support group C; it is useless live your life with asking at every times about every parts of the life as "is this haram, is this haram, is this haram".

Pointless answer?
Reply

Flame of Hope
06-01-2011, 03:44 AM
Originally Posted by 'Abd Al-Maajid
"Is music haram?"
Group A

"Are photos haram?"
Group C

"Is talking to person of the opposite sex haram?"
Group C

"Are dogs haram?"
Group A

"Is alcohol haram?"
Group A

"Is TV haram?"
Group C

"Are videos haram?"
Group C
..............
:sl:

lol. Take a look at all the questions again. There's definitely something wrong with them all. :p

Can you figure out what?
Reply

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'Abd Al-Maajid
06-01-2011, 03:46 AM
I dont get it...I am already very much
Reply

Flame of Hope
06-01-2011, 03:47 AM
Originally Posted by sister harb
I support group C; it is useless live your life with asking at every times about every parts of the life as "is this haram, is this haram, is this haram".

Pointless answer?
:sl:

Yayyyy! I support Group C too. lol.
Reply

'Abd Al-Maajid
06-01-2011, 03:48 AM
okay i support group c too...
Reply

Flame of Hope
06-01-2011, 05:31 AM
Originally Posted by 'Abd Al-Maajid
I dont get it...I am already very much
:sl:

Okay. I don't want to stress you out even more. lol.

The reason why something's wrong with all those questions is because...... they are too general.

"Is music haram?"

The question does not address what ABOUT music is haram. It isn't specific.

What type of music? Music with singing or music without singing? Music to enhance the viewing experience in films? Or too much music that is making you forget your duties and responsibilities? Music that you prefer to listen to than the Qur'an? Music that's in movies, documentary films, ads? Background music? Music that soothes and relaxes the nerves? Does it apply to music in all things, all situations and all circumstances? Nasheeds are also haram? Songs about Allah and Muhammad (saws) are also haram?

"Are photos haram?"


What about photos is haram? Does this include all photos? What sort of photos specifically? Family photos? Identity photos? Photos of loved ones? Photos of animals and living beings? Photos of inanimate things? Or is it with regard to hanging them up on the wall for decoration? Or using them for the purpose of worshiping gods other than Allah?

Is talking to person of the opposite sex haram?"


Does that include all situations and all circumstances? What if the person is your employer? Or a person in your class? Or a person who got lost and is asking for directions? What if he or she is a doctor who you depend on to save your life?

"Are dogs haram?"


What about dogs is haram? Eating them? lol. Or keeping them as pets? Is it haram also to keep them for guarding the house... or use them as hunting dogs?

"Is alcohol haram?"


What about alcohol is haram? Drinking it? Using it to light a fire? Using it as a freshener for your laundry? Using it to disinfect the skin? Or for cleaning purposes?

"Is TV haram?"

What about TV is haram? Everything?!!

"Are videos haram?"

What about videos is haram? Everything?!!


More information is needed before such questions can be answered PROPERLY in my opinion.
Reply

tigerkhan
06-01-2011, 06:32 AM
i am of this opinion, if there is no virtue/sawab in doing these matters, y are we insisiting much about it. leave them.
Reply

Innocent Soul
06-01-2011, 06:35 AM
Subhanallah! You are really good at asking questions and remembering everyone's questions :><:. You are right sis there are atleast 5 threads on each topic.

Answering these questions needs knowledge and understanding.
Reply

Flame of Hope
06-01-2011, 07:55 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by tigerkhan
i am of this opinion, if there is no virtue/sawab in doing these matters, y are we insisiting much about it. leave them.
So if you consider music to be haram you would avoid everything related to music? You would plug your ears if someone sings or plays any musical instrument? You would stop watching ALL movies and films, even if they are educational because there's music in it? ....never listen to nasheeds or songs teaching kids about Islam? You would never sing a lullaby or listen to one?

If you consider the TV to be haram you would stop watching TV altogether? Not even watch news coverage of something important going on in your country or city? You wouldn't watch any Islamic programs either.... because they are on TV?

You would also give up watching all videos? Never go to YouTube? Never get on the internet because there's musical audio and videos on all sorts of subjects?

You would tear up all pictures found in your home. Never have your photo taken. Never keep photos of your family members? Never record a day of importance such as the day you graduate from college or get married on film?

How practical does all this sound?

The rules of Islam are not absolute. Let's understand that..... let's also understand that we must be fair in our judgments and get all the necessary information regarding a particular matter BEFORE giving a verdict of whether something is haram or not.

And Allah is the best to judge.
Reply

al yunan
06-01-2011, 08:08 AM
Originally Posted by Flame
The rules of Islam are not absolute.
Walaikum Assalam sister,

That is exactly what I wanted to say, but thought better as I considered you might assume I was picking on you.
For it would have been the second thread of yours I would be commenting on.
I therefore owe you an apology for not having thought better of you.

Masalam
Reply

Insaanah
06-01-2011, 08:52 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Flame
Group A scholars say yes. Group B scholars say no. Group C scholars say there is something wrong with these questions.

Which group do you support?
The correct group would be the one that fully support their answers from the Qur'an and ahadeeth, and the early sources as part of their answers to the question, as well as including any exceptions to the rule. They would not judge the questioner and say that their question is wrong, but would, as part of their answer to the question, cover all scenarios, and situations that may differ from the main ruling (if there are any). In the scenario given above, all group C has done is to criticise the questioner's question.

There is nothing wrong with any of the questions. These are exactly the type of questions that the average lay person would and do ask scholars, for matters they are unsure about. And any person who seeks to have something clarified is to be applauded, for they are wanting to make sure that they are not doing anything Islamically wrong. May Allah increase us all in knowledge, wisdom, and good deeds, ameen.

And Allah knows best in all matters.

:sl:
Reply

al yunan
06-01-2011, 09:02 AM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
So my answer, is none of the above.

Walaikum assalam sister,

The bird has already flown the coop.

Masalam
Reply

Salahudeen
06-01-2011, 09:06 AM
The questions aren't wrong, however the answer given could be wrong, I.E if someone asks "is talking to the opposite gender haraam" a person could answer "yes" without thinking about exceptions to the rule, for example you go to see your doctor and the person on reception is of the opposite gender so you have no choice but to mix/talk with the opposite gender. Then you're forced out of necessity in this situation. Another situation could be you're lost somewhere and need directions, the only person available is of the opposite gender, then in this situation you're also forced to talk with them out of neccessity, another situation could be, you have a question about the deen and there's no 1 around who will know the answer except a man, then you have to mix/talk with them in order to find out the answer to your question.

Another situation that comes to mind is when Ayesha RA was travelling with the army of the Prophet (saw) and she got left behind without anyone realizing, and a man who was lagging behind saw Ayesha, he didn't just walk past her and go "it's haraam for me to talk to her" he approached her and got off his camel and gave her his camel and then they carried on forward till they joined the rest of the army. And the hypocrites started spreading rumours that something happened between them, but he really had no choice, he couldn't leave a defenceless woman alone in the desert could he? He escorted her to safety out of neccessity.

So I think every situation is unique and should be judged according to its merits.


But examples of where it could be haraam could be, you're friends with a girl without need or reason, i.e you chat to each with each other without need or reason just for the fun of it, hang out with each other, go to the cinema together, these are all things that a woman shouldn't do with a non mehram because it's unecessary free mixing with the opposite gender without need or neccessity and could lead to fornication right?



But also, even in situations where it's a neccessity to talk with the opposite gender it can still lead to fornication, i.e you talk with a female receptionist because you have an appointment at the place she's working, and she starts flirting with you. So the best thing to do is to avoid it as much as you can and if you have any advances made towards you, run!!



Another example is the TV question, the answer would be, if you watch haraam stuff then it is haraam, but if you watch halal stuff then it's not haraam.
Reply

al yunan
06-01-2011, 09:31 AM
Originally Posted by Salahudeen
Another situation could be you're lost somewhere and need directions, the only person available is of the opposite gender, then in this situation you're also forced to talk with them out of neccessity, another situation could be, you have a question about the deen and there's no 1 around who will know the answer except a man, then you have to mix/talk with them in order to find out the answer to your question.
Salam brother,

Ever considered a career in law ?
Defence lawyer !

Masalam
Reply

sister herb
06-01-2011, 02:33 PM
Is talking to person of the opposite sex haram?"


Does that include all situations and all circumstances? What if the person is your employer? Or a person in your class? Or a person who got lost and is asking for directions? What if he or she is a doctor who you depend on to save your life?
Also my father, son, brother and husband are opposite gender... So we better individualize kind of questions "is this haram" a little better?
Reply

Who Am I?
06-01-2011, 02:53 PM
Originally Posted by Flame
Are dogs haram?" What about dogs is haram? Eating them? lol. Or keeping them as pets? Is it haram also to keep them for guarding the house... or use them as hunting dogs?

"Is alcohol haram?" What about alcohol is haram? Drinking it? Using it to light a fire? Using it as a freshener for your laundry? Using it to disinfect the skin? Or for cleaning purposes?
Since I know this is referring to me, I'll go ahead and step up.

My dogs are my companions. They are my only family since I don't have a wife and/or kids. I feel alone sometimes and my dogs are the only ones that are there for me. I know that in both the Bible and the Qu'ran, dogs are not looked upon favorably. I have to admit that this bothers me, because if Allah created dogs, why does He seem to hate them so much? I understand that in ancient times with limited sanitation and no vaccination of animals, dogs were disease carriers. But that is not so much the case anymore. I've even asked God, "Why do you hate dogs so much if you created them (well, created the wolf who was the father of dogs)?" I haven't really found a good answer.

As for alcohol, the universe is a hard enough place when I am sober. God created wheat, grain, potatoes, sugar cane, etc. All of these are used to make alcohol. Therefore, didn't God create alcohol? And shouldn't I be allowed to have a drink or two now and then to relieve my stress? If God doesn't want us drinking alcohol, why did He create it?

Those are two of my big issues, but I have decided recently that I may just have to disagree with God/Allah on those. I don't want to let a little thing stop me from finding my own inner peace and happiness. Let me find my way and I'll sort this out later...
Reply

ardianto
06-01-2011, 03:13 PM
Originally Posted by Salahudeen

Another example is the TV question, the answer would be, if you watch haraam stuff then it is haraam, but if you watch halal stuff then it's not haraam.
:sl:

Brother, even if all programs in TV are haram, the TV itself is still halal as long as this TV is made not from haram materials, but we are not allowed to watch TV. Haram in this matter fall onto the action (watch TV), not onto the goods/stuff (TV as hardware).

We can use this TV to watch halal videos.


P.S : Don't be hesitate to correct me if I makes a mistake in this matter.
Reply

tigerkhan
06-01-2011, 06:50 PM
Originally Posted by Flame
So if you consider music to be haram you would avoid everything related to music? You would plug your ears if someone sings or plays any musical instrument? You would stop watching ALL movies and films, even if they are educational because there's music in it? ....never listen to nasheeds or songs teaching kids about Islam? You would never sing a lullaby or listen to one?

If you consider the TV to be haram you would stop watching TV altogether? Not even watch news coverage of something important going on in your country or city? You wouldn't watch any Islamic programs either.... because they are on TV?

You would also give up watching all videos? Never go to YouTube? Never get on the internet because there's musical audio and videos on all sorts of subjects?

You would tear up all pictures found in your home. Never have your photo taken. Never keep photos of your family members? Never record a day of importance such as the day you graduate from college or get married on film?

How practical does all this sound?

The rules of Islam are not absolute. Let's understand that..... let's also understand that we must be fair in our judgments and get all the necessary information regarding a particular matter BEFORE giving a verdict of whether something is haram or not.

And Allah is the best to judge.
islam is complete religion for mankind upto qiyama. so what was clearly mentioned as haram b4 1400 years is haram, no matter if every person of world is induged in it. i had personal interest in hadiths about the dajjal and time near qiyamat and all fitnas of that time. so i quote 2 of them here.

in one hadith it was said that there will be lot of fitnas near to qiyama and who was indulged in them, will be destroyed. when asked that what wil be the indication that someone fall in fitna. it was said that in morning he/she will think that this thing ( like music, photos, videos etc) is haram and in evening he will consider them as halal.

in one other hadith it was told that a time will come in which ur men will bcm un-obedient and women will bcm shameless. suhaba ra when heard this they got amazed. prophet PBUH said even more worse time will come that u will leave doing dawa (amir bil mahroof wa nahe hanil munkar). and then he PBUH said even more wrost time will come when u will promote sins ( it can be music, videos etc ) and stop the good. and then he said more worst time will come in which there will be diffrence btw good and bad deed.

(plz its just the lesson in hadiths, not exaact traslation).

similarly there are many hadiths in which these things are pridicted that there will be music in every home. what i want to say in there are now 2 approaches.
1. we try to tend islam according to current situation of some ppl of the world. eg i know now a days every one is directly or indirectly indulge in "interest" so based on this fact, we cant change the "interest" as halal. or if someone say there is no concept of life without music in america, so lets review its halal or haram for ppl of america.
2. we should not fall in fitna and still consider haram as haram and halal as halal. even we cant saved ourself from these (eg interest). our deen is complete and it guides us upto the day of qiyama, in hadith the solution to this pbm was told that we do istaghfar in abundance.

the question
How practical does all this sound?
. i am not saying i am very pious but i never see movies, we have no tv in home, i dont have pictures (only 3-4 passposrt size), i dont see islamic lectures, i never listen nasheeds. even if i do all these and yes sometime i also make this sinsbut that dont mean it bcm halal.
i know many ppl personally who even dont use cell phone, internet etc....can u blv life without this ?

and allah swt knowa the best in all matters. my purpose of this post is not to offend anyone but just realize/learn/disscus what is right.
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MSalman
06-01-2011, 07:16 PM
as-salaamu alaykum

This is why the questions are supposed to be directed to trust worthy and pious people of knowledge and answers should come from those pious people. Secondly, it's part of Islamic adaab that when someone is asking a question, he's very clear in his speech. and Allah knows best
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sister herb
06-02-2011, 04:14 AM
Why don´t we ask as "is this halaal?"? I don´t live my life asking at every corner "is this wrong".
Reply

Flame of Hope
06-02-2011, 05:38 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Insaanah
There is nothing wrong with any of the questions. These are exactly the type of questions that the average lay person would and do ask scholars, for matters they are unsure about. And any person who seeks to have something clarified is to be applauded, for they are wanting to make sure that they are not doing anything Islamically wrong.
I agree that the problem is not with the questioner. A person asks questions in order to obtain understanding and knowledge. A person like that should be applauded.

The problem lies with the person who answers the question. Because if the question that has been asked is vague and general, it is the business of the person who wants to answer the question, to seek clarification, get more information, ask the questioner for more details, and THEN answer the question.

Someone sincerely asks: "Is music haram?"

Group A scholars say yes.

Group B scholars say no.

Group C scholars say, "Well, it depends..... "

And the truth is, what is haram does depend on conditions, situations and circumstances. One also has to take into consideration the asker of the question and what his intentions are.

Just a Guy recently asked the question about dogs.....

Well, he's new to the religion and still learning. What advice are we supposed to give to him? Okay, so Group A scholars say "yes, it's haram!!" So what does this group expect Just a Guy to do? Give up his dogs? Or do we strive to make him understand that the issue of dogs being haram isn't so important as understanding the greatness of Allah and how forgiving He is?

People are at different levels of understanding. We must speak to them at their level.

And Allah knows best.
Reply

'Abd-al Latif
06-02-2011, 06:17 AM
:salamext:

I don't understand, is this a sports team? Why are people saying 'I support xyz' like you're trying to create a fan base?

Music is prohibited, view this thread http://www.islamicboard.com/miscella...415-music.html there are many other threads like this.

TV is not haram but what TV airs is haram. But since there is so little good you find in TV, people want it out of their house altogether. Even some Islamic channels are giving a really false image of Islam, the manner in which they air their programs seems almost superficial.

As for photos, the scholars unanimously prohibit the drawing of pictures by hand, but there is a difference of opinion in digital media. Some say photos as well as videos are prohibited while some say the opposite. Both have evidences but since this is a grey area so I suggest you look into yourself.

But please, avoid this 'I support this' or 'my opinion is' etc, this is ignorance.
Reply

ardianto
06-02-2011, 07:37 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Flame

"Is alcohol haram?"


What about alcohol is haram? Drinking it? Using it to light a fire? Using it as a freshener for your laundry? Using it to disinfect the skin? Or for cleaning purposes?
Scholars in my place have answered this question. There are two kinds of alcohol, khamr and non-khamr.

Khamr is alcohol that for drink, or in English it's called liqueur and beer, such as whiskey, vodka, beer, or other alcoholic drink. Khamr is absolutely haram. Not only for drink, even produce, distribute, or sell khamr is also forbidden. But non-khamr alcohol such as alcohol for disinfectant, for cleaning purpose are permissible to used, as long as not for drink.

You can use alcohol based cleaner to clean something, this is not khamr. But if you drink that cleaner, this non-khamr turn into khamr.


Edit : You can visit hospitals that run by Muslim organizations in my place. They use alcohol as disinfectant.
Originally Posted by Flame

The rules of Islam are not absolute.
Sis, don't speak without knowledge.
Reply

Flame of Hope
06-02-2011, 07:58 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
I don't understand, is this a sports team? Why are people saying 'I support xyz' like your trying to create a fan base?
My intention has never been to start a sports team nor to create a fan base. I just wanted to make a point. which is...... general questions are difficult to answer. People are free to agree with it or disagree. And they can discuss why they agree or disagree. Either way, we could learn much by exchanging our views about it. And that's a good thing. For aren't we here to learn?

Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
Music is prohibited
What about music is prohibited? Listening to it? Making it? Manufacturing musical instruments? Bathroom singing? Whistling? Talking to musicians or dealing with them?

Music is a noun. The prohibition is for a verb or action. What's the action that is prohibited regarding music? If you tell me that, I'll learn something that I can put into practice.

Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
But please, avoid this 'I support this' or 'my opinion is' etc, this is ignorance.
All that we say in this forum are our opinions. Are you suggesting we don't say anything at all?

Well, no problem. I think I'll take your advice and shut up. It's about time I did. lol.
Reply

Tyrion
06-02-2011, 08:29 AM
Originally Posted by Just a Guy
My dogs are my companions. They are my only family since I don't have a wife and/or kids. I feel alone sometimes and my dogs are the only ones that are there for me. I know that in both the Bible and the Qu'ran, dogs are not looked upon favorably. I have to admit that this bothers me, because if Allah created dogs, why does He seem to hate them so much? I understand that in ancient times with limited sanitation and no vaccination of animals, dogs were disease carriers. But that is not so much the case anymore. I've even asked God, "Why do you hate dogs so much if you created them (well, created the wolf who was the father of dogs)?" I haven't really found a good answer.
Dogs are a tricky issue, and even though I've never owned a dog I think I know where you're coming from... You might be interested in reading Surat Al-Kahf of the Quran (18th chapter)... God speaks about "the people of the cave", and it is mentioned that they had a dog with them. The dog is mentioned as one of their party... One of their companions. But I believe the harsher opinions towards dogs comes from Hadith (or sayings of the prophet, peace be upon him). I think it's only here that we find some rules concerning dogs, like rules about keeping them in the house, etc...

I must admit, I personally don't understand the opinions either... The Quran seems to speak highly of a dog amongst the righteous people of the cave, so I just don't know. Since I'm not particularly knoweledgable on the subject, I tend to leave it alone and not worry about it too much... But I definitely see your side. Sometimes I wonder if particular sayings were maybe talking about dogs as they were in Arabia at the time... Perhaps stray dogs that may have carried disease/rabies? Who knows. It's definitely a topic I wish more modern scholars would explain though. Even if we take those rules though, it'd be wrong to assume Islam is against dogs somehow. Islam respects all animals, and we must treat them all with kindness. I would go to someone who has more knowledge regarding the primary texts for your question about dogs though (instead of asking here) since they might be able to help you understand it in detail...

As for alcohol, the universe is a hard enough place when I am sober. God created wheat, grain, potatoes, sugar cane, etc. All of these are used to make alcohol. Therefore, didn't God create alcohol? And shouldn't I be allowed to have a drink or two now and then to relieve my stress? If God doesn't want us drinking alcohol, why did He create it?
There's no arguing with this point. :p It's a clear prohibition in the Qur'an, and it's far more explicit/important than the dog issue. God basically says the following;



They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say: "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs: In order that ye may consider (2:219, Yusuf Ali)




O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper. Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer: will ye not then abstain? (5:90-91, Yusuf Ali)


There are other ways to relieve your stress, and this is just going to be one of those things you have to give up for your Lord. No need to suffer more than you have to though... Get some help with it and take it slow.

Also, remember... These things are all secondary... Accepting the fundamentals of Islam are more important for you at the moment, so try not to let this stuff distract you from the bigger picture.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-02-2011, 11:57 AM
Originally Posted by Flame

:sl:

Okay. I don't want to stress you out even more. lol.

The reason why something's wrong with all those questions is because...... they are too general.

"Is music haram?"

The question does not address what ABOUT music is haram. It isn't specific.

What type of music? Music with singing or music without singing? Music to enhance the viewing experience in films? Or too much music that is making you forget your duties and responsibilities? Music that you prefer to listen to than the Qur'an? Music that's in movies, documentary films, ads? Background music? Music that soothes and relaxes the nerves? Does it apply to music in all things, all situations and all circumstances? Nasheeds are also haram? Songs about Allah and Muhammad (saws) are also haram?

"Are photos haram?"


What about photos is haram? Does this include all photos? What sort of photos specifically? Family photos? Identity photos? Photos of loved ones? Photos of animals and living beings? Photos of inanimate things? Or is it with regard to hanging them up on the wall for decoration? Or using them for the purpose of worshiping gods other than Allah?

Is talking to person of the opposite sex haram?"


Does that include all situations and all circumstances? What if the person is your employer? Or a person in your class? Or a person who got lost and is asking for directions? What if he or she is a doctor who you depend on to save your life?

"Are dogs haram?"


What about dogs is haram? Eating them? lol. Or keeping them as pets? Is it haram also to keep them for guarding the house... or use them as hunting dogs?

"Is alcohol haram?"


What about alcohol is haram? Drinking it? Using it to light a fire? Using it as a freshener for your laundry? Using it to disinfect the skin? Or for cleaning purposes?

"Is TV haram?"

What about TV is haram? Everything?!!

"Are videos haram?"

What about videos is haram? Everything?!!


More information is needed before such questions can be answered PROPERLY in my opinion.
Assalaamu Alaaykum

Most of these are 'necessaties', it doesnt mean the thing itself is lawful. These things one must be aware of generally anyway, we seem to be making things difficult when they arent allready.

I agree, when the questioner asks someone there will be a need of one with knowledge to answer his questions, it also requires one to gain knowledge themselves. As long as it is according to the Qur'aan and sunnah.
Reply

Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-02-2011, 12:21 PM
Assalaamu Alaaykum

Originally Posted by Flame
:sl:
My intention has never been to start a sports team nor to create a fan base. I just wanted to make a point. which is...... general questions are difficult to answer. People are free to agree with it or disagree. And they can discuss why they agree or disagree. Either way, we could learn much by exchanging our views about it. And that's a good thing. For aren't we here to learn?.
Yes, they are difficult to answer, this is why we need to gain knowledge and understand more about the issue. Yes we are here to learn, but what we do wrong is exchange opinions regarding issue we dont know anything about that is why we can sometimes never agree upon the issue itself. I dont believe exchanging opinions is uniting the muslims either, just causing more disruption within ones faith. Is it not mentioned that one should speak with evidence? rather than speak about a matter of which there is already evidence regarding Quraan and sunnah, but becasue we personally dont agree upon we want what we like and disagree with what we dont like, we dont simply accept something because we 'think' its correct but rather is there evidence of it, has it been agreed upon by the Quraan and sunnah?



Originally Posted by Flame
What about music is prohibited? Listening to it? Making it? Manufacturing musical instruments? Bathroom singing? Whistling? Talking to musicians or dealing with them? .
The only problem we seem to have here is one agree and the other disagree.. From my understanding if we put it this way, alcohol is haraam, which means we arent allowed to sell it, what benefit is there in selling something that is haraam? nothing, there will be gained no barakah, so therefore we must avoid and try to sell something that is permissable. But in the case necessity like you mentioned in another post, if there is no other way, no other drink to drink, what should one do, i think this is what you want to know right? Allaah does not want hardship for us more than we cannot bare..

Talking to musicians is different to playing/listening to music, in this case you have the chance to give dawah.


Originally Posted by Flame
All that we say in this forum are our opinions. Are you suggesting we don't say anything at all?

Well, no problem. I think I'll take your advice and shut up. It's about time I did. lol.
subhaan'Allaah No sis, you dont need to 'shut up' sis, you are required to answer questions regarding the deen, we all still do that like you said one should be applauded for asking questions. But whatever is considered Haraam and halaal is in the Qur'aan set for us. We also need evidence regarding what we say, and many of lack that unfortunately.. Why do we need to answer a certain question, when it has already been answered for us? we are required to gain knowledge and teach others of the correct that we know to others..so continue to asking questions.. It is adviced to post evidence with everything you have to say, if you have nothing good to say i.e. with evidence then you should remain silent, as that issue should not be discussed without evidence or knowledge..This is a reminder for everyone including myself..
Reply

Who Am I?
06-02-2011, 02:11 PM
So after visiting the masjid yesterday, I think I have a better perspective of the alcohol and dogs issue. The brother I spoke with asked me, "Do you think your life would be better without alcohol?" I had to say that yes, it probably would be better without it. It also means I may have to cut back the time I spend with some people in my life. They're not bad people, but it's like the brother asked me "Are they helping you to improve yourself?" Right now, I'd say that no, they are probably not helping me to improve myself. That one is clear to me what I have to do now.

As for the dogs issue, well, that is something I will just have to deal with in my own way. It is a small matter, but a big one for me, but right now I am more concerned with my relationship with Allah and becoming who I am supposed to be. I think that's a little more important for me right now than whether or not I should keep my dogs. But even the brother I talked to said that he didn't expect me to just throw my dogs out because I'm converting to Islam. I know the Qu'ran also talks about not abusing animals.
Reply

Muhammad
06-02-2011, 02:36 PM
Greetings Just a Guy,

I know that in both the Bible and the Qu'ran, dogs are not looked upon favorably. I have to admit that this bothers me, because if Allah created dogs, why does He seem to hate them so much? I understand that in ancient times with limited sanitation and no vaccination of animals, dogs were disease carriers. But that is not so much the case anymore. I've even asked God, "Why do you hate dogs so much if you created them (well, created the wolf who was the father of dogs)?" I haven't really found a good answer.
Although keeping a dog may not be allowed in Islam (with the exception of keeping dogs for hunting, guarding livestock and guarding crops), that does not mean God hates them. Islam encourages good treatment towards animals, and the following two hadeeth may be of interest to you:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "While a man was walking he felt thirsty and went down a well and drank water from it. On coming out of it, he saw a dog panting and eating mud because of excessive thirst. The man said, 'This (dog) is suffering from the same problem as that of mine. So he (went down the well), filled his shoe with water, caught hold of it with his teeth and climbed up and watered the dog. Allah thanked him for his (good) deed and forgave him." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! Is there a reward for us in serving (the) animals?" He replied, "Yes, there is a reward for serving any animate." (Al-Bukhari)

Allah's Apostle said, "A prostitute was forgiven by Allah, because, passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, Allah forgave her because of that." (Sahih al-Bukhari)
Reply

Who Am I?
06-02-2011, 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by Muhammad
Greetings Just a Guy,

Although keeping a dog may not be allowed in Islam (with the exception of keeping dogs for hunting, guarding livestock and guarding crops), that does not mean God hates them. Islam encourages good treatment towards animals, and the following two hadeeth may be of interest to you:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "While a man was walking he felt thirsty and went down a well and drank water from it. On coming out of it, he saw a dog panting and eating mud because of excessive thirst. The man said, 'This (dog) is suffering from the same problem as that of mine. So he (went down the well), filled his shoe with water, caught hold of it with his teeth and climbed up and watered the dog. Allah thanked him for his (good) deed and forgave him." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! Is there a reward for us in serving (the) animals?" He replied, "Yes, there is a reward for serving any animate." (Al-Bukhari)

Allah's Apostle said, "A prostitute was forgiven by Allah, because, passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, Allah forgave her because of that." (Sahih al-Bukhari)
Ok, that does make me feel a bit better about this. I still have issues with not being able to keep a dog, but as long as Allah likes dogs, I can deal with it. As I said, my main issue right now is establishing my relationship with Allah. I'll worry about the rest later.
Reply

Muhammad
06-02-2011, 03:10 PM
As I said, my main issue right now is establishing my relationship with Allah. I'll worry about the rest later.
I fully agree. I pray Allaah (swt) will guide your heart and make each step easy for you, Aameen.
Reply

ardianto
06-02-2011, 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by Flame
:sl:

"Is music haram?"

"Are photos haram?"

"Is talking to person of the opposite sex haram?"

"Are dogs haram?"

"Is alcohol haram?"

"Is TV haram?"

"Are videos haram?"

..............

Group A scholars say yes. Group B scholars say no. Group C scholars say there is something wrong with these questions.

Which group do you support?
I support group D

This is group of scholars that say "Seek knowledge from knowledgeable persons is better than seek an answer without knowledge".
Reply

Flame of Hope
06-02-2011, 05:08 PM
:sl:

I don't care which group you support as long as you support that group which speaks the truth.

Again I'll repeat what I said earlier. The rules of Islam are not absolute. They can be broken under certain circumstances.

Take the case of the question: "Is music haram?"

Group A scholars say, "Yes, it is haram!"

Group B scholars say, "No, it isn't haram!"

Group C scholars recognize that the issue depends on conditions, circumstances and situations, so they say, "It depends....."

If Group A scholars say, "Music is haram!" they are making an absolute statement.

If Group B scholars say, "It is not haram!" they are also making an absolute statement.

It would have been far better for them to say, "In my opinion, music is haram," or "In my opinion, music is not haram."

If Allah had explicitly declared music to be haram, then we have the right to make an absolute statement. But has this been made explicit? Is there any verse in the Qur'an or any hadith of the Prophet (saws) where we are told that music is haram? No..... then why make absolute statements about music?!!

This is fanaticism, this insistence that music is haram.

It reminds me of my early days when I was a new revert to Islam..... I had given up listening to music because I had read a ruling by some scholars that music was prohibited. My uncle who is not a Muslim learnt about this and asked how listening to music could be haram. He said he loved listening to old Hindi songs and wondered how indulging in such an activity was considered harmful in Islam. I immediately sent him a long list of articles on scholarly rulings about the prohibition of music. I might add that I didn't take the trouble to read the rulings myself. I just assumed that scholars understood things better than I did. Anyway, my uncle read the articles. He wasn't convinced. What did convince him though was that Islam was a religion practiced by fanatics.

I didn't want him to think I was a fanatic. So I began to read the articles myself. When I did that I discovered that there wasn't anything concrete in the Qur'an or Sunnah that prohibited music. I realized that the prohibition was a matter of opinion of some scholars and that not all scholars agreed on its prohibition.

That was an eye-opener for me. And from that day on, I made sure that I did not ever follow the rulings given by scholars blindly.

I go with the Group C scholars who say, "It depends.....", because this is the only group that allows room for discussion.
Reply

MSalman
06-02-2011, 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by Just a Guy
As I said, my main issue right now is establishing my relationship with Allah. I'll worry about the rest later.
as-salaamu alaykum

First, welcome to Islam my dear brother *virtual hug* :D. My dear brother, that's exactly what you should do. This is why it's recommended to Muslims to deal with new Muslims according to their level of imaan and knowledge and not throw everything at them which might drive them away from Islam, it's part of Islamic adab. But sadly many of us fall into that error. What is important for you my brother is belief in tawheed and trying your best to learn about obligation and performing them with your utmost ability. Secondary issues like "is music haraam, can i keep the dogs" etc will have to come later.

May Allah Azza wa Jal make your journey easier, keep you steadfast and let you die as a Muslim, ameen

PS: Check your pm, insha'Allah
Reply

ardianto
06-02-2011, 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by Flame
:sl:

I don't care which group you support as long as you support that group which speaks the truth.

Again I'll repeat what I said earlier. The rules of Islam are not absolute. They can be broken under certain circumstances.
:sl:

I support group D because this is a group that speak the truth. "Seek knowledge from knowledgeable persons is better than seek an answer without knowledge".

Sister, seek knowledge from knowledgeable persons, Inshaallah you will understand why this halal, why that is haram, why in one matter some scholars say haram while other scholars say halal, and if rules of Islam is absolute, why scholars can make some different fatawa on one matter.
Reply

Flame of Hope
06-02-2011, 05:41 PM
:wa:

Originally Posted by ardianto
I support group D
That's fine with me.
Reply

ardianto
06-02-2011, 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by Flame
:wa:



That's fine with me.
:sl:

Don't worry sister, after you learn more you will know if Sharia is not scary thing. :)
Reply

Flame of Hope
06-02-2011, 05:53 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by ardianto
Don't worry sister, after you learn more you will know if Sharia is not scary thing. :)
Jazakallah khair for the advice. You're right. There's a lot I need to learn. :)
Reply

Flame of Hope
06-02-2011, 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by Just a Guy
So after visiting the masjid yesterday, I think I have a better perspective of the alcohol and dogs issue. The brother I spoke with asked me, "Do you think your life would be better without alcohol?" I had to say that yes, it probably would be better without it. It also means I may have to cut back the time I spend with some people in my life. They're not bad people, but it's like the brother asked me "Are they helping you to improve yourself?" Right now, I'd say that no, they are probably not helping me to improve myself. That one is clear to me what I have to do now.

As for the dogs issue, well, that is something I will just have to deal with in my own way. It is a small matter, but a big one for me, but right now I am more concerned with my relationship with Allah and becoming who I am supposed to be. I think that's a little more important for me right now than whether or not I should keep my dogs. But even the brother I talked to said that he didn't expect me to just throw my dogs out because I'm converting to Islam. I know the Qu'ran also talks about not abusing animals.
I'm very pleased to learn that Allah sent you a wise brother who knows his religion well. Alhamdulillahir rabbil al ameen!!

May Allah reward him abundantly. Ameen.
Reply

Who Am I?
06-02-2011, 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by islamiclife
as-salaamu alaykum First, welcome to Islam my dear brother *virtual hug* . My dear brother, that's exactly what you should do. This is why it's recommended to Muslims to deal with new Muslims according to their level of imaan and knowledge and not throw everything at them which might drive them away from Islam, it's part of Islamic adab. But sadly many of us fall into that error. What is important for you my brother is belief in tawheed and trying your best to learn about obligation and performing them with your utmost ability. Secondary issues like "is music haraam, can i keep the dogs" etc will have to come later. May Allah Azza wa Jal make your journey easier, keep you steadfast and let you die as a Muslim, ameen PS: Check your pm, insha'Allah
I got your pm and responded. Thanks for the advice, brother. I admit this is a lot to take in and while I have not taken the shahada officially yet, I know that I will do so soon. I asked Allah to show me when the time is right, so I will know when I am ready.

Originally Posted by Flame
I'm very pleased to learn that Allah sent you a wise brother who knows his religion well. Alhamdulillahir rabbil al ameen!! May Allah reward him abundantly. Ameen.
Yeah, Allah was looking out for me on that one. I feel like I am closer to becoming the man I was meant to be. I'm not there yet, but I'm closer now than I have been in a long time. I'm trying to start practicing some of the virtues of Islam even though I am not a Muslim yet.

That being said, there is an event tomorrow night at the masjid that I plan on attending. I need to surround myself with strong brothers because this is not going to be an easy time for me. I'm still trying to digest the fact that my whole life to this point has been a lie, and that doesn't even cover how my friends and family will react...
Reply

Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-02-2011, 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by Flame
:sl:

I don't care which group you support as long as you support that group which speaks the truth.

Again I'll repeat what I said earlier. The rules of Islam are not absolute. They can be broken under certain circumstances.

Take the case of the question: "Is music haram?"

Group A scholars say, "Yes, it is haram!"

Group B scholars say, "No, it isn't haram!"

Group C scholars recognize that the issue depends on conditions, circumstances and situations, so they say, "It depends....."

If Group A scholars say, "Music is haram!" they are making an absolute statement.

If Group B scholars say, "It is not haram!" they are also making an absolute statement.

It would have been far better for them to say, "In my opinion, music is haram," or "In my opinion, music is not haram."

If Allah had explicitly declared music to be haram, then we have the right to make an absolute statement. But has this been made explicit? Is there any verse in the Qur'an or any hadith of the Prophet (saws) where we are told that music is haram? No..... then why make absolute statements about music?!!

This is fanaticism, this insistence that music is haram.

It reminds me of my early days when I was a new revert to Islam..... I had given up listening to music because I had read a ruling by some scholars that music was prohibited. My uncle who is not a Muslim learnt about this and asked how listening to music could be haram. He said he loved listening to old Hindi songs and wondered how indulging in such an activity was considered harmful in Islam. I immediately sent him a long list of articles on scholarly rulings about the prohibition of music. I might add that I didn't take the trouble to read the rulings myself. I just assumed that scholars understood things better than I did. Anyway, my uncle read the articles. He wasn't convinced. What did convince him though was that Islam was a religion practiced by fanatics.

I didn't want him to think I was a fanatic. So I began to read the articles myself. When I did that I discovered that there wasn't anything concrete in the Qur'an or Sunnah that prohibited music. I realized that the prohibition was a matter of opinion of some scholars and that not all scholars agreed on its prohibition.

That was an eye-opener for me. And from that day on, I made sure that I did not ever follow the rulings given by scholars blindly.

I go with the Group C scholars who say, "It depends.....", because this is the only group that allows room for discussion.
Assalaamu Alaaykum

From my understanding..

Scholar who say haram=yes

Scholar who say haram=no

Scholar who say it depends=Necessities, again this doesnt mean its not haraam or halaal..Ofcourse no doubt it depends on the situation of an individual, this is what Islaam does it fits into the lifestyle of one..its not here to make ones life hell for them

Now if you look at the western lifestyle it wont fit because this lifestyle is created by people, now people are used to not dressing fully and Islaam tells them to cover up whether it be sunny or cold, they will say "why should we cover up?" "is it not hot out there?" But if they continue to go out like they are going to either burn their skin without using some sort of sun lotion, as a muslim there is no need because there is one covered, but if one wishes to apply they are still on the safe side..

Sis you have to realise that not everyone will understand the Qur'aan nor Islaam, listening to music is by far the most hardest to take into, but there are also reasons to why there are soo many principles of each issue. I used to have a sikh friend, i used to try give her dawah and explain to her how Prophet Muhammad (saw) was a great man and was the best of mankind etc, now she would explain to me how all prophets are great, that those prophets she believed in were good and like lets put it this way, all prophets were all good and at the same level ( i apologise for a silly example :-\), and thats all that made me lose my emaan but alHamdulilaah soon enough i continued to stay strong and not let this bother me even though it didnt seem like such a big problem either. Islaam isnt the religion of fanatism nor extremism, by not listening to music i dont feel like an extremist, and i dont judge others if they do listen to music but simply a good advice should help and its all up to them, i will be accountable for my deeds and everyone else for theirs..

Whether others disagree with some issue, it shouldnt deter a believer from practising his faith, there are many who will think Islaam is a strange religion, but this is the truth and this is what Islaam is..There are many other things where people who dont know anything about Islaam could call 'fanaticism', such as the Jinn, the unseen etc..

Sis we as muslims believe in the Unseen, that is how much faith one needs 'only' to believe, you know how much that will bother those who dont believe? They will call us crazy and many more stuff..You cant just jump too deep into issues with people who never heard about Islaam if you want to give dawah you ofcourse start with the basics.

I dont know if im getting anywhere with this post but i really dont want you to lose faith just because something isnt clear to you. Also the post brother Abd al latif, it should help insha'Allaah..

.. peace ..
Reply

Flame of Hope
06-02-2011, 10:04 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Pєαяℓ σf Wιѕ∂σм
Whether others disagree with some issue, it shouldnt deter a believer from practising his faith, there are many who will think Islaam is a strange religion, but this is the truth and this is what Islaam is..There are many other things where people who dont know anything about Islaam could call 'fanaticism', such as the Jinn, the unseen etc..

Sis we as muslims believe in the Unseen, that is how much faith one needs 'only' to believe, you know how much that will bother those who dont believe? They will call us crazy and many more stuff..You cant just jump too deep into issues with people who never heard about Islaam if you want to give dawah you ofcourse start with the basics.

I dont know if im getting anywhere with this post but i really dont want you to lose faith just because something isnt clear to you. Also the post brother Abd al latif, it should help insha'Allaah..
I really have no idea why you seem to think that I would allow anyone to deter me from practicing my faith.

I started this thread to express an opinion. It's about the need for us Muslims to be open-minded and just when answering questions. I am of the opinion that we mustn't be quick to rush in and give a "yes" or "no" reply. It isn't good manners.

The truth is clear and always has been clear. There is no other deity worthy of worship but Allah and Muhammad is His messenger. What other truth does one need to know besides this? This is where it all begins. If you don't have a firm grasp about what this means, then it doesn't matter how good you are at following the rules of Islam.

Belief in Allah, hope in Allah, trust in Allah, love of Allah, fear of Allah are all actions of the heart. Following the rules of Islam are actions of the limbs.

The actions of the heart and far more important than the actions of the limbs.

If the actions of the heart are in order, then the actions of the limbs will be in order. This is where our focus must be! THE ACTIONS OF THE HEART: Belief in Allah and the fear of standing before Him on the Day of Judgement.
Reply

Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-02-2011, 10:29 PM
Assalaamu Alaaykum

I spoke in general dear sister, not aiming at you personally..

Has anyone ever posted an answer yes or no without giving a reason along with it? It is ofcourse no doubt unnacceptable, to rush in giving an answer and then not explaing why or where it is said such and such.. and musnt be quick to post opinions either.

Originally Posted by Flame
The truth is clear and always has been clear. There is no other deity worthy of worship but Allah and Muhammad is His messenger. What other truth does one need to know besides this? This is where it all begins. If you don't have a firm grasp about what this means, then it doesn't matter how good you are at following the rules of Islam.

Belief in Allah, hope in Allah, trust in Allah, love of Allah, fear of Allah are all actions of the heart. Following the rules of Islam are actions of the limbs.

The actions of the heart and far more important than the actions of the limbs.

If the actions of the heart are in order, then the actions of the limbs will be in order. This is where our focus must be! THE ACTIONS OF THE HEART: Belief in Allah and the fear of standing before Him on the Day of Judgement.
And of course there is no doubt in that! This is why i mentioned one must focus on the basics, i.e. Tawheed etc..and then move on step by step at ones own pace and not push themselves into doing things..

Also i thought the questions were generally asked, as in anyone can ask the question even a non-muslim..when one asks, their reply will be according to Qur'aan and sunnah and not of someone thinks of a certain matter..
Reply

al yunan
06-02-2011, 11:19 PM
Originally Posted by Flame
The actions of the heart and far more important than the actions of the limbs. If the actions of the heart are in order, then the actions of the limbs will be in order. This is where our focus must be! THE ACTIONS OF THE HEART: Belief in Allah and the fear of standing before Him on the Day of Judgement.

Walaikum Assalam sister,

A lot of people on this forum are not quite sure of a Mathab or what Islam they wish to follow.
Alhamdulillah you have found not only your way but also your niche which seems to be Ilmu Hikmah.
I see it as Husnuzon that you think so highly of others to speak of matters which in reality are alien to most.
I did try to warn you but I guess I did a poor job of it and for that I apologize again.
I by no means wish to dishearten you, on the contrary I would encourage you to take your studies further but don't forget to reinforce your knowledge of Shariah for it's the golden rule of Ilmu Hikmah that what ever is prohibited once to ordinary folks is prohibited thrice to those involved in this Knowledge. As I'm only a student also I don't really know what else to say except be careful of how you express yourself and to who.

May Allah S.W.T protect and guide you always to your heart's heavenly desires.
Masalam

PS: A lot of people here have your best interest at heart even though that might not always seem so.
Reply

Flame of Hope
06-02-2011, 11:53 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Pєαяℓ σf Wιѕ∂σм
This is why i mentioned one must focus on the basics, i.e. Tawheed etc..and then move on step by step at ones own pace and not push themselves into doing things..
Alhamdulillah! I'm glad that you understand that our focus should be on the basics.. :) One must get that in order first.... If we do, then we would be more fair and just in our speech and deeds.

To be fair and just is very important for a Muslim.... and the reason for that is..... Allah loves the just.

And one cannot be just if one fails to take into consideration all things. One cannot be just if one gives out a verdict WITHOUT listening to both sides.

Justice also isn't possible if the heart suffers from the following diseases: pride, prejudice, bias and selfishness. So even if a person listens to both sides of the argument, the disease in his heart would color his judgement and his verdict would be unjust.

Nowadays you have scholars and people who consider themselves to be knowledgeable and learned, rushing in to give their opinions and verdicts without even a moment's thought of what it's going to be like for themselves on the Day of Judgement! They do not even pause to think if their verdicts and opinions are just. They don't even care to check their intentions. They have no qualms declaring something to be haram... as though they are the final authority on the subject. This is nothing but arrogance.

I have seen how some people in this forum have declared things to be haram..... and then scoffed at and mocked at the opinions of others. They forgot that they were talking to their own brothers and sisters in faith. And they forgot their manners. They became rude and disrespectful towards people!! Treating them with contempt, as though they were fools to have any opinion at all. All they could think of was, "I am the one who is right! Others are wrong!!"

Is this what Islam teaches us to be like? Or does it teach us to be humble and to consider others to be better, to respect all people and be just and fair in all situations.... ?

Yes, most certainly.... THE TRUTH IS CLEAR. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN CLEAR.

Alhamdulillahir rabbil al ameen!! All praise be to Allah for showing us the Truth and guiding us to it!

I think it might be appropriate to cite here how the salaf and sahabah used to handle questions regarding various matters..... I am of the opinion that THEY are the example to be followed.

-------------------------

Al-Baraa' said,

"I met a hundred and twenty of the Ansaar from the Companions of Allaah's Messenger (saw) and when one of them was asked about a matter there was not a single man amongst them except that he wished that his brother would suffice him (by answering)."

[This saying is reported by ad-Daarimee (1/53) and Ibn `Abdul-Barr in Jaami` (2/163).However it is the saying of `Abdur-Rahmaan ibn Abee Laylaa and not the saying of al-Baraa`, and its chain of narration is saheeh. As for the saying of al-Baraa`, then it is, "I saw three hundred of the people of Badr, there was not a single one of them except that he loved that someone else should take his place in answering." It is reported by Ibnul-Mubaarak in az-Zuhd (no. 58), ibn Sa`d (6/11) and others and its isnaad contains Aboo Ishaaq as-Sabee`ee who is acceptable (sadooq) except that he was mudallis and reports it without stating that he heard it directly.]

................

`Amr ibn Deenaar said to Qataadah when he sat to give religious
verdicts,

"Do you realise the affair that you have fallen into? You have come between Allaah and His worshippers and say, 'This is correct and this is not correct.'" [Reported by al-Khateeb in al-Faqeeh wal-Mutafaqqih (2/168)]

---------

`Alqamah said,

"They used to say, 'The boldest of you in giving religious verdicts is the one having the least knowledge.'"

--------

From Ibn Mas`ood, (ra), who said,

"The one who gives a religious verdict to the people about everything that he is asked is indeed insane." [Reported by Ibn `Abdul-Barr (2/164-165), al-Khateeb in al-Faqeeh wal-Mutafaqqih (2/197-198) and Aboo Khaithamah in al-`Ilm (no. 10) and its chain of narration is saheeh.]

----------

`Umar ibn `Abdul-`Azeez was asked about a question and replied,

"I am not one who is bold about giving religious verdicts."

----------

Sufyaan ath-Thawree said, "We reached the scholars and they used to hate answering questions and giving religious verdicts until they could find no way out except to give a verdict, but if they were relieved of having to do so then that was more beloved to them."

----------

Imaam Ahmad said,

"He who puts himself forward to give religious verdicts has put himself forward to something very serious, unless he is forced through necessity."

It was said to him,

"Then which is better: for him to speak or to remain silent?"

He said,

"It is more beloved to us that he should withhold."

It was said,

"But if there is a necessity?" So he started saying,

"Necessity! Necessity!"

And he said,

"It is safer for him to withhold."

------------

When Ibn Seereen was asked about anything pertaining to the permissible and forbidden his colour would change and he would alter so that he would not seem to be the same person. [Reported by ibn Sa`d (7/195), al-Khateeb in al-Faqeeh wal-Mutafaqqih (2/167) and its isnaad is saheeh].

--------
Reply

Salahudeen
06-03-2011, 12:15 AM
If a person is relaying the verdicts/rulings that the scholars have given then what is the problem? i.e a person asks can he have a girl friend and do stuff with her out of wedlock, we know this is haraam so what's the problem in telling him?

There is nothing wrong with relaying what the scholars have said regarding a issue is there? I think what you're talking about is people giving their own opinions not the opinions of scholars right?

For example, someone asks a question and a person answers "i think such and such is haraam and you shouldn't do it" this would be wrong if the person does not back up his statement with the verdict of scholars, but what is wrong with a person saying, "regarding your question, the scholars have said the following regarding this situation/scenario".
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Flame of Hope
06-03-2011, 12:19 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Salahudeen
There is nothing wrong with relaying what the scholars have said regarding a issue is there? I think what you're talking about is people giving their own opinions not the opinions of scholars right?
Brother Salahudeen, are you not aware of the state in today's world? We have scholars giving out fatwas at the drop of a hat. We have fatwas about anything and everything. You can go shopping for a scholar that supports your point of view.

It's alright for you to direct people to the opinions of scholars..... but you must certainly be careful about which scholars you pick! Their opinion would be a reflection of your opinion!
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Salahudeen
06-03-2011, 12:22 AM
Originally Posted by Flame
:sl:



Brother Salahudeen, are you not aware of the state in today's world? We have scholars giving out fatwas at the drop of a hat. We have fatwas about anything and everything. You can go shopping for a scholar that supports your point of view.

It's alright for you to direct people to the opinions of scholars..... but you must certainly be careful about which scholars you pick! Their opinion would be a reflection of your opinion!

But if the scholar has evidence from the Qur'an and sunnah supporting his view, is it not valid? :hmm: for example, the 4 madhabs have differing opinions and they are all based upon evidence from the Qur'an and sunnah. What is wrong with presenting these opinions to a person who asks the ruling regarding something?

i.e, scholar A says this regarding your situation, scholar B says this regarding your situation, scholar A based his decision upon the following evidence from the qur'an and sunnah, scholar B made his decision based upon this evidence from the qur'an and sunnah.
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Flame of Hope
06-03-2011, 12:26 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Salahudeen
But if the scholar has evidence from the Qur'an and sunnah supporting his view, is it not valid? for example, the 4 madhabs have differing opinions and they are all based upon evidence from the Qur'an and sunnah. What is wrong with presenting these opinions to a person who asks the ruling regarding something?
Evidence from the Qur'an and Sunnah is cited by scholars holding opposing views. In such a case, we must present the arguments of both groups of scholars..... and then leave the questioner to make his decision for himself.

You wouldn't be fair if you just pointed out ONE SIDE of the argument..... the side that you favor.
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Salahudeen
06-03-2011, 12:32 AM
Originally Posted by Flame
:sl:



Evidence from the Qur'an and Sunnah is cited by scholars holding opposing views. In such a case, we must present the arguments of both groups of scholars..... and then leave the questioner to make his decision for himself.

You wouldn't be fair if you just pointed out ONE SIDE of the argument..... the side that you favor.
Yeah, except when there is 'ijma on a issue and there's no opposing opinions. So back to the issue, what is wrong with doing that? that's not making your own religious verdict that's simply relaying what the scholars have said regarding a issue.

Unless the purpose of this thread was to warn people of the dangers of giving their own opinions regarding issues and not the islamic view point, is that what you meant?
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Flame of Hope
06-03-2011, 12:36 AM
:sl:

By the way, I would like to share how I personally deal with issues that are controversial or with issues I don't entirely understand.

I leave those matters alone and pray to Allah that some day He will grant me understanding. Then I move on to practice the things that I DO understand.

This is also the same policy I follow when I read the Qur'an. Whenever I come across a verse that I don't understand, I suspend my judgment regarding it. And I move on. Many times it has happened that what I didn't understand before I began to understand later.

So that's what it's all about in the end, I guess. Striving to understand the religion..... in order to follow it in the right spirit... the spirit of sincerity.
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Flame of Hope
06-03-2011, 12:40 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Salahudeen
Yeah, except when there is 'ijma on a issue and there's no opposing opinions. So back to the issue, what is wrong with doing that? that's not making your own religious verdict that's simply relaying what the scholars have said regarding a issue.
When there are no opposing opinions, then it's a clear verdict. You can certainly relay such a verdict.
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Salahudeen
06-03-2011, 12:55 AM
^so I'm confused sister, what is the purpose of this thread? to tell people to stop saying something is haraam based upon their own opinion?
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Flame of Hope
06-03-2011, 12:58 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by al yunan
A lot of people on this forum are not quite sure of a Mathab or what Islam they wish to follow.
Alhamdulillah you have found not only your way but also your niche which seems to be Ilmu Hikmah.
I see it as Husnuzon that you think so highly of others to speak of matters which in reality are alien to most.
I did try to warn you but I guess I did a poor job of it and for that I apologize again.
I by no means wish to dishearten you, on the contrary I would encourage you to take your studies further but don't forget to reinforce your knowledge of Shariah for it's the golden rule of Ilmu Hikmah that what ever is prohibited once to ordinary folks is prohibited thrice to those involved in this Knowledge. As I'm only a student also I don't really know what else to say except be careful of how you express yourself and to who.

May Allah S.W.T protect and guide you always to your heart's heavenly desires.
Masalam

PS: A lot of people here have your best interest at heart even though that might not always seem so.
Dear brother in Islam, please do not apologize to me. lol.

Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate it much. :)
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Flame of Hope
06-03-2011, 01:12 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Salahudeen
^so I'm confused sister, what is the purpose of this thread? to tell people to stop saying something is haraam based upon their own opinion?
There isn't just one purpose to this thread. It was meant to be a reminder to us.

1. To fear Allah.

2. To be just and fair in our judgments.

3. To refrain from answering questions and desire that someone more knowledgeable would answer them.

4. To be humble and respectful towards others, whether Muslim or non-Muslim.

5. To mind our manners.

6. To mind our tongues.

7. To stimulate our minds and hearts.

8. To learn from others.

9. To crush our egos.

10. To remember the Day of Judgment.

11. To discuss priorities.

12. To facilitate learning.

13. To think the best of other people's intentions.

14. To understand the greatness of Allah.

15. To focus on what is more important..... IMAN and sincerity towards Allah.
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Tyrion
06-03-2011, 01:57 AM
Originally Posted by Salahudeen
^so I'm confused sister, what is the purpose of this thread? to tell people to stop saying something is haraam based upon their own opinion?
The thread's OP actually lists some very common questions that Muslims argue about often... These questions were her example, and so I think the thread is very relevant seeing as it's purpose was to act as a reminder when faced with these types of issues... Especially since most of those questions are argued on this very forum, usually with one side acting as if there is only one clear answer (when there actually isn't...)
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Who Am I?
06-03-2011, 02:05 AM
I haven't gotten as far as which Islam I want to follow. I just know that I want to follow Allah. Coming from a lifetime of Christianity/atheism/doing my own thing, that is not easy. There is a lot I don't understand yet about Islam and I have no one to teach me in my real life. I have to accept that I may not understand everything. For someone who has always been intellectual, this is hard for me to do. This battle I fight alone, and it will not be an easy one. Everything I know is wrong, and I have to forget it all. I know now what is right for me, and what I have to do.

May Allah grant me the strength to do what I must... ameen.
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al yunan
06-03-2011, 02:07 AM
Originally Posted by Tyrion
Especially since most of those questions

Actually my question is again about those little guys,
When is their day off ?
Do they have a union ?
Where are they available ?
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Tyrion
06-03-2011, 02:21 AM
Originally Posted by Just a Guy
I haven't gotten as far as which Islam I want to follow.
There is only one Islam... Perhaps the only real split you'll find is the Shia/Sunni split, even that is minor... Last time I checked, the worlds Muslims were 90% Sunni, and I'm guessing everything you've learned about Islam so far has been from Sunni sources. Also, the 4 schools of thought aren't really divisions, or different forms of Islam... They're just different schools with different interpretation when it comes to matters of law. None of them differ when it comes to major aspects of faith, and all of them use the same sources. Many recommend that you choose one, but that's only to make it easier for you, it's not like it's required... Islam is Islam. it's basically what you say here:

Originally Posted by Just a Guy
I just know that I want to follow Allah.

Originally Posted by al yunan
Actually my question is again about those little guys,
When is their day off ?
Do they have a union ?
Where are they available ?
Pfft? Days off? Union? Yeah right. These guys do my bidding 24/7. ;)
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Who Am I?
06-03-2011, 02:43 AM
I have been listening to a particular song a lot lately because it describes my life at this moment. It may be haraam, but it is a small comfort to me as I sort through the wreckage that my life has become right now. I like to think that Allah (swt) understand this as I wait on His timing...

When you feel as though your falling
Every fear you can confide
When the night time is your dawning
Hard to see through troubled eyes

What you wanted so
Had to let it go

Brand new day is coming round the bend
Troubles reaching for the end
If you stray from the path my friend
I will pick you up again


Hard to wake up in the morning
Hard to see through so much light
With every dream you've had gone calling
Makes it harder to believe

What you wanted so
Had to let it go

Brand new day is coming round the bend
Troubles reaching for the end
If you stray from the path my friend
I will pick you up again
I will pick you up again
Troubles reaching for the end


Everything that starts must end
Reaching for a new beginning
Everything that starts must end
Reaching for a new beginning

Brand new day is coming round the bend
Troubles reaching for the end
If you stray from the path my friend
I will pick you up again
I will pick you up again
Troubles reaching for the end

Said I'm lonely won't you let me in
I'm longing for the day...
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MustafaMc
06-03-2011, 03:32 AM
I agree with what Brother Tyrion wrote. I was exposed to Islam through a Shi'a room mate in college, but I have always gravitated toward Sunni Islam. The Shi'a sect split off mostly as a result of a political struggle between Ali and Muawiyah after Prophet Muhammad's death. I am not sure it is mandatory to choose a madhab even though I lean toward the Shafi'i as relying (from my perspective) more heavily on hadith for its fiqh (legal rulings). I would be cautious about the Salafi dawah as it tends to dismiss or diss the 4 accepted Sunni madhabs. Even though I also see a lot of good in it regarding trying to get back to the most origonal and basic practice of Islam, the main problem I have with Salafi dawah is that it seems to be elitist and divisive.

I have learned most of what I know of Islam through reading. One of my first books was "Islam in Focus" http://www.islamicbulletin.org/free_...m_in_focus.pdf and a more recent one is "Islam: Beliefs and Teachings" by Ghulam Sawar.
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'Abd-al Latif
06-03-2011, 09:30 AM
:wasalamex



What about music is prohibited? Listening to it? Making it? Manufacturing musical instruments? Bathroom singing? Whistling? Talking to musicians or dealing with them?
Pretty much everything about music is forbidden in Islam.

1) Allah says "And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allah…" [Luqmaan 31:6]

The great sahabi, Ibn ‘Abbaas (R) said: this means singing.

Al-Hasan al-Basri (r) said: this verse was revealed concerning singing and musical instruments (lit. woodwind instruments). (Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 3/451).

2) Listening to music is haram. Ibn Qayyim (rahimullah) went as far as calling it hypocrisy.

Imam Ahmed said that music sows and cultivates hypocrisy in the heart.

The Prophet (:saws1:) said: "Among my ummah (nation) there will certainly be people who permit zinaa, silk, alcohol and musical instruments…" (Narrated by al-Bukhaari ta’leeqan, no. 5590; narrated as mawsool by al-Tabaraani and al-Bayhaqi. See al-Silsilah al-Saheehah by al-Albaani, 91).

Prohibition of Music:

Including what I have just mentioned is the following.

‘AbdulAllah ibn ‘Abbaas (r) said: The daff is haram, stringed instruments are haram, drums are haram and flutes are haram. (Narrated by al-Bayhaqi 0/222)

This is the same sahabi mentioned earlier. He was one the most knowledgeable among the sahaba about the tafseer (interpretation) of Qur'an.

Silk

The Prophet (:saws1:) said, "These are haram for the males of my ummah and permitted for the females.” (Reported by Ibn Maajah, 2/1189).

Prohibition of alcohol.

Allah says, "They ask you (O Muhammad) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: In them is a great sin, and (some) benefits for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit." [al-Baqarah 2:219]

Allah also says, "O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), and gambling, and Al‑Ansaab (stone altars for sacrifices to idols, jinn, etc), and Al‑Azlaam (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Satan's handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful.

Satan wants only to excite enmity and hatred between you with intoxicants (alcoholic drinks) and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah and from the prayer. So, will you not then abstain?"

[al-Maidah 5:90-91]


3) Making music is subsequently haram.

4) Bathroom singing falls under the same prohibition.

5) Talking to musicians is not haram, but working with them is.

6) Exceptions

The exceptions are only three.

Eid

It was narrated from ‘Aa’ishah that Abu Bakr (r) entered upon her and there were two girls with her during the days of Mina beating the daff, and the Prophet (:saws1:) was covering himself with his garment. Abu Bakr rebuked them, and the Prophet (:saws1:) uncovered his face and said, "Leave them alone, O Abu Bakr, for these are the days of Eid." That was during the days of Mina.

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 944; Muslim, 892

Marriage

It was narrated that al-Rubayyi’ bint Mu’awwidh ibn ‘Afra said: "After the consummation of my marriage, the Prophet (:saws1:) came and sat on my bed as far from me as you are sitting now, and our little girls started beating the daff and reciting verses mourning my father, who had been killed in the battle of Badr. One of them said, ‘Among us is a Prophet who knows what will happen tomorrow.’ On that the Prophet said, ‘Omit this (saying) and keep on saying the verses which you had been saying before.’”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4852).

One who returns after being away

It was narrated that Buraydah said: The Messenger of Allah (:saws1:) went out on one of his military campaigns, and when he came back, a black slave woman came and said, “O Messenger of Allah, I vowed that if Allah brought you back safe and sound, I would beat the daff before you and sing. The Messenger of Allaah (:saws:) said, "If you vowed that, then do it, otherwise do not do it.'" So she started to beat the daff, and Abu Bakr came in whilst she was doing so. Then ‘Ali came in whilst she was beating the daff, then ‘Uthmaan came in whilst she was beating the daff, then ‘Umar came in and she threw the daff beneath her and sat on it. The Messenger of Allaah (:saws1:) said, "The Shaytaan is afraid of you, O ‘Umar. I was sitting and she was beating the daff, then Abu Bakr came in when she was beating the daff; then ‘Ali came in when she was beating the daff; then ‘Uthmaan came in when she was beating the daff, but when you came in, O ‘Umar, she put the daff down.”

Furthermore

The duff drums must only be beaten by women.

Shaykh ul Islam Ibn Taymiyah – rahimullah - said:

In general, it is a well known principle of the Islamic religion that the Prophet (:saws1:) did not prescribe that the righteous men, devoted worshippers and ascetics of this ummah should gather to listen to verses of poetry chanted to the accompaniment of hand clapping, rhythm sticks or daffs. It is not permissible for anyone to go beyond the limits of Islam and follow something other than that which was narrated in the Qur’aan and Sunnah, whether that has to do with inward matters or outward, whether for the common man or the elite. But the Prophet (:saws1:) granted a concession for some kinds of entertainment on the occasion of weddings and the like, and he also granted a concession to women allowing them to beat the daff at weddings and on other joyous occasions. But with regard to the men of his time, none of them used to beat the daff or clap his hands, rather it was proven in al-Saheeh that he said, ‘Clapping is for women, and Tasbeeh is for men,’ and he cursed women who imitate men and men who imitate women.

Because singing, beating the daff and clapping the hands are actions of women, the salaf used to call a man who did that mukhannath (effeminate), and they used to call male singers makhaaneeth (pl. of mukhannath). This is well known.

Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 11/565, 566

Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 3690; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 2913.

Music is a noun. The prohibition is for a verb or action. What's the action that is prohibited regarding music? If you tell me that, I'll learn something that I can put into practice.
All music is prohibited from the above.
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