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truthseeker63
06-02-2011, 06:45 PM
The problem I see with man made laws and systems and constitutions is that they can be changed taken away added to edited and are all the time for example Congress or Parliament may raise taxes this year than lower or cut taxes the next year I just think Capitalism and Socialism are inferior does anyone agree ?

http://www.islam101.com/rights/hrM1.htm

6. Men make laws to suit their own needs. Suppose members of parliament want to decrease the rate of tax on rich, they would do so, even if the majority of the people suffered and there was high unemployment in the country.

http://www.angelfire.com/bc3/johnson...wa/sharia.html
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Impey
06-02-2011, 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
The problem I see with man made laws and systems and constitutions is that they can be changed taken away added to edited and are all the time for example Congress or Parliament may raise taxes this year than lower or cut taxes the next year I just think Capitalism and Socialism are inferior does anyone agree ?
Inferior to what?
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al yunan
06-02-2011, 08:12 PM
Originally Posted by Impey
Inferior to what?

Theocracy !
What else.
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Impey
06-02-2011, 08:23 PM
Originally Posted by al yunan
Theocracy !
What else.
A particular theocracy or any? Plus there are plenty of other things: communism, humanism etc. I might say that Christianity is best since if we look at the WEST WE see development and progress?
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Who Am I?
06-02-2011, 08:25 PM
Hmmm, I may have to disagree with that. I think the beauty of a consitution is that it can be changed if needs be, depending on whatever sitations may arise. The world is constantly changing and while I do agree that some things are absolute (like Allah's mercy swt), other things may change as situations arise.

Now when I say change, I don't mean the fundamental tenants of Islam or the Qu'ran. Those are set down by Allah, and He hasn't changed His mind in 1400 years. But I think there needs to be a system of minor laws that can be changed as circumstances dictate (war, peace, famine, prosperity, etc).

I admit that maybe this is my Western upbringing with its focus on individuals over society that may be talking here. I've never been really comfortable with the concept of a theocracy, but then I have never been religious either. I have had my issues with every major religion at some point in my life. As I said in another thread, I used to be really afraid of Sharia law. That was always a scary word to me. But maybe now it won't be so bad, inshallah. As I told a brother I recently spoke with, maybe a little discipline in my life is what I need, inshallah.
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Lynx
06-02-2011, 08:40 PM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
The problem I see with man made laws and systems and constitutions is that they can be changed taken away added to edited and are all the time for example Congress or Parliament may raise taxes this year than lower or cut taxes the next year I just think Capitalism and Socialism are inferior does anyone agree ?

http://www.islam101.com/rights/hrM1.htm
What's wrong with being able to increase or decrease taxes? You do realize that things occur in the economy that require changes in tax rates, right? The problem with an unchanging legal system or economic system is that it won't be able to adapt. Imagine if laws didn't change; slavery would have never been abolished. Or if you are pro-slavery, imagine what would happen if we could not create new laws for new technological advancements (say, the invention of cars). I think you'll quickly realize that a changing legal system is a good thing.

Also, capitalism is the most successful and powerful economic system in history.
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al yunan
06-02-2011, 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by Impey
A particular theocracy or any? Plus there are plenty of other things: communism, humanism etc. I might say that Christianity is best since if we look at the WEST WE see development and progress?
Christians don't use Theocratic law they use Franco / Roman or Dutch / Roman.
What you call Western progress to many other people of this world it's called decadence and as for most Muslims it's a revival of Sodom and Gomorrah with a few new twists such as drug addiction, necrophilia, pedophilia, zoophilia to name a few plus Satanism.
No wonder many Africans prefer tribal life and Asians, nomadic life it's safer.
From Cape Town to Cairo covering the whole of Africa and hundred of languages including Arabic, you wont find a word for incest, that would also be a white man and very Christian invention as it's mentioned in the Bible "the how to manual" of progress!
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Impey
06-02-2011, 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by al yunan
Christians don't use Theocratic law they use Franco / Roman or Dutch / Roman.
What you call Western progress to many other people of this world it's called decadence and as for most Muslims it's a revival of Sodom and Gomorrah with a few new twists such as drug addiction, necrophilia, pedophilia, zoophilia to name a few plus Satanism.
No wonder many Africans prefer tribal life and Asians, nomadic life it's safer.
From Cape Town to Cairo covering the whole of Africa and hundred of languages including Arabic, you wont find a word for incest, that would also be a white man and very Christian invention as it's mentioned in the Bible "the how to manual" of progress!
Are you claiming that you will see none of these things in a Muslim country?

Is there any difference between stealing in a theocratic system or Roman system or ....? If I go to the gulf I see plenty of decadence amongst the Arabs, a recent BBC report stated that in Tehran there were a huge number of prostitutes (you don't think they walk around in mini skirts do you?), if you read news papers in the West or in the Gulf you will find cases of incest - surely you are not saying that because there is no word a thing cannot happen?

Maybe we can discuss it by a recent article by the famous Muslim Chemist Ahmed Zewail, Nobel prize winner, says research lags way behind in the Islamic world and offers some suggestions as to what might be done. His suggestions include: illiteracy, politicised religion, no jobs, fanaticism, violence, frustration, non participation of women, allow freedom of thought, reward merit, etc. Go an read it in New Scientist issue 2809 27 April 2011
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Perseveranze
06-02-2011, 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by Impey
Are you claiming that you will see none of these things in a Muslim country? 1
Difference between the current Muslim countrys and Islamic approach.
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al yunan
06-02-2011, 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by Impey
Are you claiming that you will see none of these things in a Muslim country?

Now we do, thanks to our European teachers and your "progress".
For your information Tehran residents are usualy Shi'a, I don't believe I included them any where in my post.
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Impey
06-02-2011, 10:11 PM
Originally Posted by Perseveranze
Difference between the current Muslim countrys and Islamic approach.
Yes good point, but what I was asking was will it make any difference, it has not in the past as far as I can see because humans are wilful suborn creatures? Could you perhaps in one sentence say what that approach is?
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Darth Ultor
06-02-2011, 10:12 PM
I would never live under Sharia law. People with power are corrupt. I personally think having a Mullah who has the power to take people's heads off is no better than any other tyrant.
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Impey
06-02-2011, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by al yunan
Now we do, thanks to our European teachers and your "progress".
For your information Tehran residents are usualy Shi'a, I don't believe I included them any where in my post.
I am sorry I don't get this, are Shi'a not Muslims? Please explain?
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al yunan
06-02-2011, 10:54 PM
Originally Posted by Boaz
I would never live under Sharia law. People with power are corrupt. I personally think having a Mullah who has the power to take people's heads off is no better than any other tyrant.

JUdaism has no death penalty ?
Have you read the Talmud ?
You have more to fear from a Talmud yielding Rabbi than any Qadi.
Or have I got it wrong and I would be safe as houses around such Rabbis.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-02-2011, 11:52 PM
Greetings of peace

Originally Posted by Boaz
I would never live under Sharia law. People with power are corrupt. I personally think having a Mullah who has the power to take people's heads off is no better than any other tyrant.
How do you know what the Shariah law is when you havent even seen it been fully implemented? Whos says Mullahs take over when Shariah law is implemented?

Tyrants are tyrants, what has that got anything to do with having the shariah law implemented?
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Darth Ultor
06-03-2011, 12:03 AM
I don't want any religious law governing me, thank you.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-03-2011, 12:05 AM
^name it religious law..

But in the case of Islaam it is the law of God, accepted by all prophets..

Rather the law of God is justice and not unfair.
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Darth Ultor
06-03-2011, 12:40 AM
God's law is just. But humanity can twist it for their own pleasure. Yes, even the "uncorruptable" Quran can be taken out of context and used to suit the needs of the ones in power.
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Ramadhan
06-03-2011, 01:00 AM
Originally Posted by Boaz
God's law is just. But humanity can twist it for their own pleasure. Yes, even the "uncorruptable" Quran can be taken out of context and used to suit the needs of the ones in power.
Humanity can also twist man-made laws for their own pleasure.
and man-made laws can be taken out of context and used to suit the needs of the ones in power.
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truthseeker63
06-03-2011, 01:53 AM
I can't agree with Capitalism because number 1 Capitalism is based on greed also my point with taxes is that Americans debate all day and night long about what tax system to have Progressive Flat or Sale's tax.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_tax
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truthseeker63
06-03-2011, 01:57 AM
Also my point was that man made laws like the tax rates in America can change and do change every few years.

http://www.islambasics.com/view.php?bkID=157&chapter=4
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Who Am I?
06-03-2011, 02:01 AM
Originally Posted by Boaz
I would never live under Sharia law. People with power are corrupt. I personally think having a Mullah who has the power to take people's heads off is no better than any other tyrant.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty." Ben Franklin

People with power are almost always corrupt. You will always have to give up some freedom in order to have security. The only way you can truly live the way you want is to form your own country.

Now there's an idea. Now, what to call it...
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Darth Ultor
06-03-2011, 02:53 AM
The Republic of Boaz.
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Who Am I?
06-03-2011, 03:16 AM
Originally Posted by Boaz
The Republic of Boaz.
Well that's good for you, but I was talking about me...
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truthseeker63
06-15-2011, 07:38 PM
Is Coitus interruptus withdrawal or the pull-out method allowed in Islam for a married couple I found this in the Hadith there are people who use this as birth control ?

http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...earch_word=all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus_interruptus

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/11885
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truthseeker63
06-16-2011, 02:53 PM
Does anyone know thank you ?
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Predator
06-16-2011, 06:36 PM
This should help



http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/11885



lol, In the Bible i read God killed Onan for Coitus interruptus

Genesis {38:7} And Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of
the LORD; and the LORD slew him. {38:8} And Judah saidunto Onan, Go in unto thy brother’s wife, and marry her,and raise up seed to thy brother. {38:9} And Onan knew
that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when hewent in unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled the semen on the
ground, so tthat his brother may have no children . {38:10}And the thing which he did displeased the LORD:wherefore he slew him also
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Impey
06-17-2011, 09:27 PM
Just stumbled on this thread and this distinction, if there is one, between man made laws and God's laws. Been reading through some Hadith for the Music thread and as far as I can tell the Qu'ran itself only contains a limited number of laws, well it cannot contain everything can it? It follows that men had to construct the rest so most of Sharia must have been made by men?
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Perseveranze
06-17-2011, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by Impey

Maybe we can discuss it by a recent article by the famous Muslim Chemist Ahmed Zewail, Nobel prize winner, says research lags way behind in the Islamic world and offers some suggestions as to what might be done. His suggestions include: illiteracy, politicised religion, no jobs, fanaticism, violence, frustration, non participation of women, allow freedom of thought, reward merit, etc. Go an read it in New Scientist issue 2809 27 April 2011
Too Summarize, the systems are ruled by puppets of the west rather then geniunly Good Muslim leaders ruling Islamically.
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Impey
06-17-2011, 11:17 PM
Originally Posted by Perseveranze
Too Summarize, the systems are ruled by puppets of the west rather then geniunly Good Muslim leaders ruling Islamically.
This is what I call a 'cop out' - it just sounds as if you are avoiding the truth for if what you say is true these 'puppets' have been in place for about 1000 years.
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Ramadhan
06-18-2011, 03:00 AM
Originally Posted by Impey
Just stumbled on this thread and this distinction, if there is one, between man made laws and God's laws. Been reading through some Hadith for the Music thread and as far as I can tell the Qu'ran itself only contains a limited number of laws, well it cannot contain everything can it? It follows that men had to construct the rest so most of Sharia must have been made by men?
Sharia is based on or derived from qur'an and sunnah, and the prophet (SAW) is the living qur'an.

I don't understand by your statement that "most of sharia must have been made by men", so can you please give us those examples where sharia laws are not based on qur'an and sunnah?

Now let me ask you about your religion, christianity, do christians actually not believe in the laws of God?
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truthseeker63
06-18-2011, 05:38 AM
Where in the Quran and or the Hadith does it say that the Torah Psalms and the Gospel have been corrupted and or changed ?
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Ramadhan
06-18-2011, 08:26 AM
Corruption of the Tawraat (Torah) and Injeel (Gospel)
What sura in the Quran is related or mentions about the curruption of the Torah and Gospel?


Praise be to Allaah.
Allaah says about the Jews (interpretation of the meaning): “Do you (faithful believers) covet that they will belive in your religion in spite of the fact that a party of them (Jewish rabbis) used to hear the Word of Allaah (the Tawraat), then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it?” [al-Baqarah 2:75]

Qutaadah said: “The phrase ‘then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it’ refers to the Jews, who used to hear the words of Allaah, then they altered it after they had understood what it meant.”

Abu ‘Aaliyah said: “They took what Allaah had revealed in their Book describing Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and changed its meaning.” Ibn Zayd said: “The phrase ‘[they] used to hear the Word of Allaah (the Tawraat), then they used to change it’ refers to the Tawraat which Allaah revealed to them; they changed it, making what it permitted forbidden, and what was forbidden allowed, changing the truth to falsehood and falsehood to truth…” [Tafseer Ibn Katheer]

Allaah also said (interpretation of the meaning): “Among those who are Jews, there are some who displace words from (their) right places and say: ‘We hear your word (O Muhammad) and disobey,’ and ‘Hear and let you (Muhammad) hear nothing.’ And Raa’ina [in Arabic this means, ‘Be careful, listen to us and we listen to you,’ whereas in Hebrew it means ‘an insult.’] with a twist of their tongues and as a mockery of the religion (Islam). And if only they had said, ‘We hear and obey,’ and ‘Do make us understand,’ it would have been better for them, and more proper, but Allaah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not except for a few.” [al-Nisaa’ 4:46]

The phrase “[they] displace words from (their) right places” means that they misinterpret them and understand them in a way that Allaah did not intend, doing this deliberately and inventing lies against Allaah. [Tafseer Ibn Katheer]

Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “So because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard. They change the words from their (right) places and have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them. And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds). Verily, Allaah loves al-Muhsineen (good-doers).” [al-Maa’idah 5:13]

The phrase “because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them” refers to the fact that they broke the Covenant which had been made with them, so Allaah cursed them, i.e., He kept them away from following the True Guidance. “[We] made their hearts grow hard” means that they will not benefit from any preaching because their hearts are so hard. “They change the words from their (right) places” means that they play havoc with the words of Allaah and misinterpret His Book, taking it to mean things that were never meant and attributing to Allaah things that He never said; may Allaah protect us from that.
“[They] have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them” means that they stopped following its teachings because they did not want to follow them. Al-Hasan said: “They did not adhere to their religion or keep their duties towards Allaah, without which no deeds are acceptable to Him; their fitrah (innate nature) was not sound and their deeds were not righteous.” [Tafseer Ibn Katheer]

So it becomes quite clear that the ways in which the Children of Israel tampered with the Tawraat and Injeel include the following:
Changing Omitting Adding things and attributing to Allaah words that He did not say Misinterpreting the words of Allaah. When Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was sent, the original Tawraat and Injeel had already been altered and distorted. Allaah revealed the Qur’aan to His Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and guaranteed that He Himself would preserve it, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): “Verily We: it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e., the Qur’aan) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).” [al-Hijr 15:9]

This distinguishing feature was not found in any Book before the Qur’aan. From the time of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) until the present (more than fourteen hundred years) the Qur’aan has stayed the same, and not a single letter of it has been changed, as ancient manuscripts and the hearts of generation after generation of people who have memorized the entire text and earned the title of “haafiz” bear witness. We ask Allaah to guide us to the true and straight path. And Allaah knows best.


Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
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Impey
06-18-2011, 12:24 PM
Originally Posted by Ramadhan
Sharia is based on or derived from qur'an and sunnah, and the prophet (SAW) is the living qur'an. I don't understand by your statement that "most of sharia must have been made by men", so can you please give us those examples where sharia laws are not based on qur'an and sunnah? Now let me ask you about your religion, christianity, do christians actually not believe in the laws of God?
As I understand it there are several schools of law in Islam, all created by men and the laws formulated by them. I am told there are 4 ways of making law: Qu'ran, sunna, consensus and analogy. One might say these all have to be interpreted and that means by men. Also there are many thousands of thing that could not possibly be covered by the Qu'ran or sunna in the modern world: laws about construction, air traffic control, drug manufacture and so on. Laws are in 5 sections: civil, criminal, ethical, ritual and sanitary and it seems to me an absurdity that all these forms of laws would be applicable for all time as you seem to imply. But from what you say and my limited reading your whole structure rests on just one man, an ordinary human being and that I find totally worrying.

I said nothing about my religion or even if I have one but I would suppose that Christians believe in the laws of God - what is your point?

A question for you, you whole faith rests on the testimony and actions of one man, Mohammed but what he says, like any supposed prophet is all hearsay and cannot it seems to me be corroborated so I cannot see even a way to prove God exists let alone show that he interacts with men.
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MSalman
06-18-2011, 01:01 PM
^you should spend more time learning about the Shariah from proper academic sources instead of rushing to conclusions and bashing it. Your whole post is full of ignorance.
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Impey
06-18-2011, 01:26 PM
Originally Posted by islamiclife
^you should spend more time learning about the Shariah from proper academic sources instead of rushing to conclusions and bashing it. Your whole post is full of ignorance.
You seem to be saying you have to be expert in sharia before you can ask questions about it? My take here is that of trying to see what the basic principles of it's construction are - it is very normal in learning to do that and start with the basics. The point being that if the basics, the foundations are weak then it's a house of cards, alternatively, if they are sound then one might put trust in them. I am surprised that you cannot agree to this, are you afraid to examine the roots?
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Ramadhan
06-18-2011, 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by Impey
As I understand it there are several schools of law in Islam, all created by men and the laws formulated by them.
Can you tell us the several schools of law in Islam?
As far as I know, there are madhabs, which actually are concerned with jurisprudence and not directly with law itself.
And all the madhabs have the basis in the Qur'an and Sunnah, the law itself is the Qur'an and Sunnah, and not formulated by men.

Originally Posted by Impey
I am told there are 4 ways of making law: Qu'ran, sunna, consensus and analogy. One might say these all have to be interpreted and that means by men.
Ijma' and qiyas are based on the Qur'an and sunnah.

Originally Posted by Impey
Also there are many thousands of thing that could not possibly be covered by the Qu'ran or sunna in the modern world: laws about construction, air traffic control, drug manufacture and so on.
It goes to show that you can make claims and false accusation about Islam and the Qur'an but actually have zero knowledge about Qur'an and Sunnah. The laws about construction, air traffic control, drug manufacture are regulated in the Qur'an:
“If you do not know, ask those who know.” (21:43)

Originally Posted by Impey
Laws are in 5 sections: civil, criminal, ethical, ritual and sanitary and it seems to me an absurdity that all these forms of laws would be applicable for all time as you seem to imply. But from what you say and my limited reading your whole structure rests on just one man, an ordinary human being and that I find totally worrying.
I agree that for you as a christian whose scripture a hodgepodge of anonymous human writings containing many false errors, contradictions and even outright fabrication (eg. pericope adulterae) and anyone can change any law and attribute it to God, universal laws that are unchanging from God seems pretty unappetizing idea.

Originally Posted by Impey
I said nothing about my religion or even if I have one but I would suppose that Christians believe in the laws of God - what is your point?
Do you think people are too ignorant and blind as you are and not knowing who you really are? Just watch your steps, kid.
Next time, change your style of writing too, and maybe a new brain as well.

And despite your claim, the facts show that Christians do not believe in the laws of God, or even if they did, they actually think laws of God can be changed by humans at their whims and desires.
Case in point:
God clearly commanded in the first few of His commandments: Worship ONE God, do not make the likeness of those in heaven and earth,
but soon it became let's worship a three in one god and lets create statues of god half naked in his underwear stapled on a cross.

Originally Posted by Impey
A question for you, you whole faith rests on the testimony and actions of one man, Mohammed but what he says, like any supposed prophet is all hearsay and cannot it seems to me be corroborated so I cannot see even a way to prove God exists let alone show that he interacts with men.
Actually, this one man Muhammad (SAW) was corroborated by many of his contemporary witnesses and testimonies, including his own enemies. And this man brought Al Qur'an, a book from God that is unchanging even until today.
In if you actually read all those posts in the past discussions, you have some idea what the Qur'an is.

Maybe for someone like you who prefer God's words to be pliable, flexible, and mangle-able by human, the idea of Qur'an is pretty scary.
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Ramadhan
06-18-2011, 02:47 PM
Originally Posted by Impey
You seem to be saying you have to be expert in sharia before you can ask questions about it?
He did not say that.

Originally Posted by Impey
My take here is that of trying to see what the basic principles of it's construction are - it is very normal in learning to do that and start with the basics. The point being that if the basics, the foundations are weak then it's a house of cards, alternatively, if they are sound then one might put trust in them. I am surprised that you cannot agree to this, are you afraid to examine the roots?
You seem to have twisted other people's words and try to be deceitful. Old habit dies hard, huh?
You were not asking questions, you actually already had some idea of what the subject is, but because you were blinded by your own deceit, you went straight for the attacks, which expose your ignorance of the isseu, and hence br. Islamiclife suggested you to read up the subject to save you time before making any useful attacks.
At least if you want to be critical of Islam, be classy and genuine about it, and I've seen no improvement at all from the old you, in fact it is getting worse.

And you clearly have some nerve calling Islam's basics weak and house of cards. Are you stealing my phrase for christianity and bible from the old discussions?
You failed numerous times in trying to be deceitful about Islam and the Qur'an.

Speaking aboiut rotten from the roots, I could just close my eyes, and pick at random any page from the bible, and I will surely find numerous errors, contradictions or even smuts. That is ROTTEN to the core.
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Impey
06-18-2011, 09:43 PM
Originally Posted by Ramadhan
Can you tell us the several schools of law in Islam? As far as I know, there are madhabs, which actually are concerned with jurisprudence and not directly with law itself. And all the madhabs have the basis in the Qur'an and Sunnah, the law itself is the Qur'an and Sunnah, and not formulated by men.
Well I assume you know more than me but I have read about Hanifa, Malik, Shafi etc. Madhabs in my understanding as schools of jurisprudence so if that is different from Schools of law then the nuance escapes me. Now I further gather that the Qu'ran and Hadith are 'divinely protected from error' though this seems an assumption as I cannot see how it can be proved. However, one might regard the Qu'ran and Hadith as error free but you cannot extend that to any interpretation that end up as law.

Ijma' and qiyas are based on the Qur'an and sunnah.
Of course but they require human mind to find an interpretation that links all the things together - renumbering there are contradictory hadiths for example.

I agree that for you as a christian whose scripture a hodgepodge of anonymous human writings containing many false errors, contradictions and even outright fabrication (eg. pericope adulterae) and anyone can change any law and attribute it to God, universal laws that are unchanging from God seems pretty unappetizing idea.
Have you actually read the whole Bible? If not it goes to show that you can make claims and false accusation about Christianity and the Bible but actually have zero knowledge. “If you do not know, ask those who know.” (21:43)

The laws about construction, air traffic control, drug manufacture are regulated in the Qur'an:
Where? Frankly, I think you comment is absurd

And despite your claim, the facts show that Christians do not believe in the laws of God, or even if they did, they actually think laws of God can be changed by humans at their whims and desires. Case in point: God clearly commanded in the first few of His commandments: Worship ONE God, do not make the likeness of those in heaven and earth, but soon it became let's worship a three in one god and lets create statues of god half naked in his underwear stapled on a cross.
What facts exactly and where does it say to worship one God? As far as I know all Christian believe in the oneness of God and your trouble is that you have such a limited understanding of what a person is that you cannot see beyond your own bias. AS far as I can see Christians and other non believers do not make fun of Mohammed in this board and its is unseemly for you to do it about Jesus here.

Actually, this one man Muhammad (SAW) was corroborated by many of his contemporary witnesses and testimonies, including his own enemies. And this man brought Al Qur'an, a book from God that is unchanging even until today. In if you actually read all those posts in the past discussions, you have some idea what the Qur'an is.
I have read many posts but I do not know of a single case where there was any witnesses to the words revealed to Mohammed - I would be very happy to read such information.
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Impey
06-18-2011, 09:59 PM
Originally Posted by Ramadhan
You were not asking questions, you actually already had some idea of what the subject is, but because you were blinded by your own deceit, you went straight for the attacks, which expose your ignorance of the isseu, and hence br. Islamiclife suggested you to read up the subject to save you time before making any useful attacks. At least if you want to be critical of Islam, be classy and genuine about it, and I've seen no improvement at all from the old you, in fact it is getting worse.
If you look through where I have posted you will see that many posters referred me to various sites or videos or papers and I followed up each one and it is out of that came my posts. Like any educated person these days I have read the Qu'ran and other related books, there is no shortage of such materials. In this case I found particular information from the three papers cited by Uthman and they prompted me to find a few papers on Sharia and Hadith - for example, have you read the paper at www masud co uk / ISLAM / nuh madhhabstlk htm (sorry about the mess but I am not yet allowed to post links)

And you clearly have some nerve calling Islam's basics weak and house of cards. Are you stealing my phrase for christianity and bible from the old discussions?
You failed numerous times in trying to be deceitful about Islam and the Qur'an.
You need to read what I said not invent it. After reading various papers suggested by posters I am asking you to respond to what I feel are weaknesses - my concerns are about the basics and it simply cannot be that no one else has ever thought of the issues I have raised. I don't see what any of this has to do with your view of the Bible or the Bible itself so I don't know why you have raised the issue, if you want to discuss its authenticity then create a thread and those who wish to can join you there but I will not be with them.
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truthseeker63
06-18-2011, 10:23 PM
Im on a diet do you think drinking more ice or iced Water would help me lose weight ?
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GuestFellow
06-18-2011, 11:02 PM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
Im on a diet do you think drinking more ice or iced Water would help me lose weight ?
Salaam,

I'm not sure. Diets are not going to help you in the long-term. You should consider eating healthy on a regular basis. Try to make some small lifestyle changes as well, like replacing unhealthy food with something healthier.
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truthseeker63
06-18-2011, 11:10 PM
I want to become a Muslim but I am fearful about meeting new people I want to make Friends with Muslims and socialize but I am a shy person I would love to go to my local Mosque and learn I have Asperger Syndrome and am viewed as Disabled or Handicapped by the State I want to know how a handicapped/disabled person is viewed in Islam I am a White Male with some American Indian/Native American Anestry not that my Anestry matters I am 23 years old and I tried being a Christian but Christianity is too hard to believe and Judaism is not right for me since the Jews reject Prophet/Messiah Jesus peace be upon him and Prophet/Messenger Muhammad peace be upon him what should I do ?
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Just_A_Girl13
06-19-2011, 12:00 AM
Salaam brother,

Masha Allah, I am so happy that you want to embrace Islam! :) Islam teaches its followers to be kind to all people, whether black or white, male or female, fat or thin, disabled or not. Allah (s.w.t.) loves all of his creation and you included, regardless of your challenges. There is no reason to fear; Islam emphasizes the Ummah, or the brotherhood that all Muslims share. I understand what it is like to live with Asperger's Syndrome as both of my brothers have it. Don't push yourself to socialize if it makes you uncomfortable, just take it one step at a time. You could try bringing a trusted companion to the mosque with you. The other brothers will be very pleased that you are interested in Islam, as are the brothers and sisters on IB. Be sure to let us know how you are doing, I will keep you in my duaas.

Peace and blessings be with you :)
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Flame of Hope
06-19-2011, 12:13 AM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
I want to become a Muslim but I am fearful about meeting new people I want to make Friends with Muslims and socialize but I am a shy person I would love to go to my local Mosque and learn I have Asperger Syndrome and am viewed as Disabled or Handicapped by the State I want to know how a handicapped/disabled person is viewed in Islam I am a White Male with some American Indian/Native American Anestry not that my Anestry matters I am 23 years old and I tried being a Christian but Christianity is too hard to believe and Judaism is not right for me since the Jews reject Prophet/Messiah Jesus peace be upon him and Prophet/Messenger Muhammad peace be upon him what should I do ?
Many greetings of peace, brother.

Islam is the religion of peace, mercy, compassion and forgiveness. Allah invites you to this religion and offers you forgiveness, a great reward and salvation from the Fire.

If you have any doubts or questions..... do not hesitate to ask. Just_A_Girl13 has recently accepted Islam and we are all rejoicing over it.

Ahem! Actually I still can't believe that she and Just a Guy became Muslims....... within such a short period of time of joining IB forum.

Hmmm. Am I dreaming? Anyway, you are more than welcome to join the club. The club of pure joy and happiness. :)

Just_A_Girl13's advice is very good. I'm sure Just a Guy can suggest something too. Since they've been in your shoes (sort of).... I think they are in the best position to answer your questions.

Peace be unto you.

Alhamdulillahir rabbil al ameen!
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Just_A_Girl13
06-19-2011, 12:43 AM
Originally Posted by Riham
Just_A_Girl13 has recently accepted Islam and we are all rejoicing over it.
Originally Posted by Riham
Just_A_Girl13's advice is very good.
Thank you very much, sister :) If you look on the other threads on this forum, brother truthseeker, you will find that all of the brothers and sisters are very nice. When I joined this forum everybody was very kind to me. The brothers and sisters at the mosque will also be glad to help you with anything you need.

Peace
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Hamza Asadullah
06-19-2011, 01:28 AM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
I want to become a Muslim but I am fearful about meeting new people I want to make Friends with Muslims and socialize but I am a shy person I would love to go to my local Mosque and learn I have Asperger Syndrome and am viewed as Disabled or Handicapped by the State I want to know how a handicapped/disabled person is viewed in Islam I am a White Male with some American Indian/Native American Anestry not that my Anestry matters I am 23 years old and I tried being a Christian but Christianity is too hard to believe and Judaism is not right for me since the Jews reject Prophet/Messiah Jesus peace be upon him and Prophet/Messenger Muhammad peace be upon him what should I do ?
My friend there is nothing to be fearful about for this is an exciting time for you. Allah guides who he wants and out of so many he has opened your heart to the truth.

Surely it is Satan who is trying to make you feel fearful for he is your enemy and does not want you to accept the truth.

Therefore you must reject your enemy satan and know put ALL of your trust, faith and hope in Allah and know that he is there ALL of the way with you on this exciting and wonderful journey.

You will come across many wonderful people who will be more than willing to help you and make you feel welcomed and even honoured. There is good and bad everywhere and no doubt you will come across bad people just like you come across bad people in any aspect of life but know that if you put your full faith, trust, hopes and reliance in Allah then NOTHING will have a negative affect on you.

You should not think about "what if" just go for it. You will see that is is so different to how you ever imagined it to be. You will think to yourself "why did i ever worry?"

So take the step putting your full faith and trust in Allah and know that you will be most welcomed and you will make many new friends for life inshallah.

Also with regards to your disability then know that Allah has created people in different races, colors and having various abilities. While some of them are given certain gifts, others are deprived of these gifts and thus are disabled. This is the nature of life, according to the Divine Wisdom through which Allah governs everything.

Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi states the following regarding the Islamic perspective on disability:


In fact, man’s life is a full record of hardships and tribulations. In this sense, Allah says: “ We create man from a drop of thickened fluid to test him” (Al-Insaan:2) When man looks upon these tribulations and afflictions as being a test from Almighty Allah to see his true colors, he will come to know that there is a great Divine wisdom behind all these tests. This is surely an absolute fact, whether we know it or not.


It is also a great thing that Almighty Allah, when depriving a person of a certain ability or gift, compensates him for it, by bestowing upon him/her other gift, whith which he excels others. That is why we see that those people who are deprived of sight, have very sensitive ears that they can hear very low beats or movements around them. They are given excellence in many other abilities to compensate their imperfection.

If a person adopts this view, he will surely find rest and get contented with the test posed on him by Almighty Allah. Every person should bear in mind that he can never change his inability or escape Allah’s fate and thus he should try his best to make his life better and turn this sore lemon into sweet honey. This inability should be a motive to creativity and excellence in any field of life. A disabled person should make his condition an impetus towards being distinguished and prominent in the society.

Islamic history has a shining record of many examples of people who, while having some kind of disability, occupied very excellent positions and prominent status in the society. `Atta Ibn Abi Rabah, who was known of being black, lame and paralyzed person, was the greatest Mufti (very learned scholar)in Makkah. He was highly honored by `Abdul-Malik Ibn Marawan, the Muslim caliph of that time. His vast knowledge earned this prestige.

Almighty Allah guides all Muslims not to leave those disabled in isolation lest they fall a prey to despair and psychological ailments. They should be welcomed to the open society and be dealt with in the kindest way.


The Duty of the Society towards the Disabled:

It must be clearly borne in mind that there are things that happen out of man’s control and there are things that happen to man out of his own negligence, To make this matter clear, we may quote the following example. An infant gets paralyzed. This may occur due to his mother’s negligence of giving her child the due vaccination. So such disability is out of man’s negligence.

Now, it is the duty of the whole society to establish schools for those persons and secure them due care so that they become good members of the society and that they benefit themselves and their families.

In the West, great care is shown to the disabled. It is duty of we Muslims to shoulder the responsibility of showing the utmost care to those people, for, according to the teachings of our religion, those persons are sources of Divine mercy and blessings being showered on us now and then. They are the weak for whose sake we are given sustenance and made victorious.

In his Hadith, our Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said: “You are given sustenance and victory for the virtue of those who are weak amongst you.” We, should show mercy and care to the disabled out of both human and religious motives. In Islam, we are commanded to show mercy to everything in this world.

In the Hadith: “Show mercy to those on earth so that He Who is in the heavens (i.e. Allah) bestow mercy to you.”

Source: http://www.ukim.org/imam.asp?CatID=17.


So my friend do not worry about aything else just put your FULL trust and faith in Allah and know that nothing will affect you in a negative way and everything only happens by the will of Allah.

If you believe in his oneness and the finality of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) then you should not hesitate to proclaim the Shahada as life is short and death is awaiting us and so we should acknowledge the oneness of our lord without hesitation:

Ash hadu Allaah ilaaha illallaahu Wa ash hadu annaa Muhammadan Abduhoo wara sooloo

I bear witness that there is NO worthy of worship except Allah and that Muhammad is the slave and Messenger of Allah

If you need any help with finding a Masjid or getting in touch with local Muslims or with anything else at all then please do not hesitate to ask.
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MSalman
06-19-2011, 01:47 AM
Bismillah

@ramadhan

Jazak Allah khyran for stepping up for me.

@Impey

Your writing style seems very familiar. I can care less about your disguises or reasons for it. Before I answer your questions or rather further humiliate you by exposing your ignorance, I will give you benefit of doubt. Since you said you want to learn the basics, let's start from the basics:

1) Do you believe in God?
2) If you say yes to 1), do you believe in a religion? If so, what is your religion?
3) If you say yes to 1), do you believe God is the supreme ruler?
4) Do you think we should let man-made laws dictate our lives? Why or why not?
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Ramadhan
06-19-2011, 02:18 AM
Originally Posted by Impey
Well I assume you know more than me but I have read about Hanifa, Malik, Shafi etc. Madhabs in my understanding as schools of jurisprudence so if that is different from Schools of law then the nuance escapes me. Now I further gather that the Qu'ran and Hadith are 'divinely protected from error' though this seems an assumption as I cannot see how it can be proved. However, one might regard the Qu'ran and Hadith as error free but you cannot extend that to any interpretation that end up as law.
Qur'an is divinely protected from any changing and there is no error. You seem to have really short memory, you have not been away from IB that long (does creating new username mean you lost your past memory too?), and it has been proven to you many times in the past in many discussions involving you. It's a pity sis. Lily is not really active anymore, otherwise I'm sure she would have been glad to show you again.

Originally Posted by Impey
Of course but they require human mind to find an interpretation that links all the things together - renumbering there are contradictory hadiths for example.
So you have found contradictory hadiths, can you show us some examples along with their details, classifications, and the context? And I am sure you are familiar with classifications based on the isnad and mat'an.

Another thing, as a christian, shouldn't you be loving contradictions? after all, we can find more contradictions in bible which is considered by christians as words of God. Also after all, christians do not even have any particular care about how jesus' sayings and actions were recorded and transmitted (yes, I understand you do believe that the writers of bible were divinely inspired, the problem is no one knew who they were and whether they were trusted and it is a complete mystery how the collections of this hodgepodge of writings became koine greek bible and why hundreds of other gospels which clearly said Jesus (pbuh) was a messenger were thrown out. I see that christians do love mysteries, though). And one single event by one person is often reported contradictorily in different bible verses. If you cannot remember what they are because of your identity change, I'd suggest you to head to the comparative religion section.

Originally Posted by Impey
Have you actually read the whole Bible?
Yes I have. It was a bible a couple of christian missionaries gave to me when I was studying in college. Actually they have put the bible online: http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/index.htm
And it does occur to me that you actually have not read the whole bible, and so I'd suggest you go to that site and read it.

Originally Posted by Impey
If not it goes to show that you can make claims and false accusation about Christianity and the Bible but actually have zero knowledge.
Ah, more christians in this forum and their false claims and accusations. I am sure I have more knowledge about bible than most christians.

Originally Posted by Impey
“If you do not know, ask those who know.” (21:43)
Based on your false accusations, this verse perfectly describe what you need to do.

Originally Posted by Impey
Where? Frankly, I think you comment is absurd

Originally Posted by Impey
What facts exactly and where does it say to worship one God? As far as I know all Christian believe in the oneness of God and your trouble is that you have such a limited understanding of what a person is that you cannot see beyond your own bias. AS far as I can see Christians and other non believers do not make fun of Mohammed in this board and its is unseemly for you to do it about Jesus here.
Actually, I am far more respectful to Jesus (pbuh) than any christians in this forum. I always send salam and pray for him whenever I write his name, and everytime I read his story in the Qur'an, I also send supplications for him.
From your question
What facts exactly and where does it say to worship one God?
, it does seem you have not read your bible in a while:
"The most important one," answered Isa, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. (mark 12:29)
It is clear that Jesus' Lord and God is one, and we muslims worship the God that Jesus worshiped, while christians do not worship the God that Jesus (pbuh) worship, and decided this commandment from Jesus (as) as unimportant and changed it to our lord is 3 in 1 god, one of which is a baby jesus and the other wandering spirit.
If such important law was changed by christians, you don't have to imagine what happened to the rest of the laws.

Originally Posted by Impey
I have read many posts but I do not know of a single case where there was any witnesses to the words revealed to Mohammed - I would be very happy to read such information.
Prophet Muhammad was known as always telling the truth, and this was corroborated by everyone, including his enemies.
And of course only prophet Muhammad SAW directly received the words being revealed to him, had others also heard it live, then the others would have been messengers of God too, you know this but you are pretending you did not.
But the events when revelations were taking place were witnessed by other shahaba, and you must have known this too.
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ardianto
06-19-2011, 03:57 AM
Water is not fat burner that will burn your fat. But drink much water is good for your metabolism. It will help your diet.
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Who Am I?
06-19-2011, 05:12 AM
Brother, I was in much your position as I struggled to accept Islam.

I am also a white guy, though I don't have any disabilities, so I can't relate to that part. But I tell you, the first couple of times that I went to masjid, I was scared to death. I didn't know how anyone there was going to react to an obviously non-Muslim white guy walking in and wanting to speak to a brother about Islam. I thought they would think I was with the FBI or CIA or local police.

Once I got there and started talking to people, it really wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. The brothers I have met there have been good guys for the most part. I still get the occasional odd look from someone I have never met, but I don't let it bother me anymore. I have been there enough times that the masjid feels like a second home to me now. Most of the regulars there know me now and they were there when I took shahada, so they know that I am a new Muslim and are willing to help me out with learning.

So yeah, if you want to become a Muslim, I would go ahead and do it as soon as possible. I was going to wait for a while, but I figured that tomorrow is not guaranteed, and I wanted to at least have peace in my heart that I made the right decision. It has been almost 2 weeks ago now and I still don't regret my decision. I still have a lot to learn, but with the brothers I know at masjid now and the books and resources I have online, I am learning something new every day.
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AishaRayann
06-20-2011, 05:07 AM
As salam alaikum brother,

Islam is wonderful religion. It's changed by life. Islam doesnt see color,ethinicty,nationality and so forth we are all part of one ummah..Allah judge a man by his heart. As far as Aspergers goes..I can sort of relate..I myself am labeled by the state as disabled..me for mental disablilty.I have agoraphobia,ptsd,depression,lots of aniexty,etc. But, I've come to a part in my life where I want to fix it..the doctors says im either bipolar or have schizoaffective disorder. I take 5-6 meds a day..I was taking more. I've made Dua for Allah to ease my suffering. I go to therapy 1x a week, borderline personality disorder group every week on wesnesday,I see my shrink 1x a month usually. I'm making effort to change myself socially,mentally,spiritually at once. The social anixiety can get better..other behaviors can be change..just look to Allah in guidence of all things..theres nothing Allah can't repair..just ask and have sincere faith. I'm proud to say that I have successfully come off of one of my meds this week. I'm doing so much better..I didnt need another pill to replace it!!! yay!! Social anxiety start by talking on here..maybe just one person at first to speak personally with...by messages,email whatever...maybe u can find someone in the country u live in..and work your way up to a phone call..i hated the phone for so long..i was even to nervous to pick up the phone to order a pizza at one time in my life.you just slowly introduce yourself to the world and Islam. The Muslim community is the best! Most Muslims are very friendly,kind,caring,understanding,willing to help with any question,make good friend. We love each other for the sake of Allah. Ah yeh you should look up a mosque on facebook in your local area..and speak with the imam there..if u are afraid to call. If you feel Islam is right for you and you understand the conditions of shadaha i sugguest you take your shadaha as soon as possible.
Because life is too short..and only Allah know the Day of Resurrection. When you take it..theres a few things I'd sugguest..buy a Quran..research the different translators..you want to get any Saudi approved Quran..don't buy one from Iranian translator there beliefs are completely different..and thats not true Islam that they worship..its innovation. Download Azan program set to your local area.its free online..find an online site that teaches you how to pray..and how many rakkat to do for each of the 5 prayers..print of paper that teaches u wudu abulition of prayer..cleanse yourself..you must speak all in Arabic..its okay if you dont know how to pronounce correctly..you will learn..just try..surely Allah see your efforts..you need ka'ba finder..u can buy on ebay..those in the black plastic casing arent good ones.they dont work..get the metal one.if u not have a prayer rug..use a clean towel to make salaat on..read quran as often as possible..ask any question here..these are good people here..they help you.. Good Luck to you brother..May Islam find its way into your heart, Ameen.
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May Ayob
06-24-2011, 01:08 PM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
I want to become a Muslim but I am fearful about meeting new people I want to make Friends with Muslims and socialize but I am a shy person I would love to go to my local Mosque and learn I have Asperger Syndrome and am viewed as Disabled or Handicapped by the State I want to know how a handicapped/disabled person is viewed in Islam I am a White Male with some American Indian/Native American Anestry not that my Anestry matters I am 23 years old and I tried being a Christian but Christianity is too hard to believe and Judaism is not right for me since the Jews reject Prophet/Messiah Jesus peace be upon him and Prophet/Messenger Muhammad peace be upon him what should I do ?
Salaam Alaikum Brother :)
You should never be afraid, you are a human being you have a value , If some one rejects you because of what you listed then they are nothing to care about.. You are more valuable in the eyes of God than most people who didn't go through what you have gone
you are not dis abled you are more able to do extra-ordinary things than most us ... beleive me you are.
I am a shy person my self.. this resulted in me not having except a few friends that i see maybe twice a year.. but you know it's a good thing it isn't bad because you will be more careful in speaking with people you don;t want get involved with people that disagree with you with your opinions so the shy qaulity you have will give you a safety shield.:)
You are a very nice person that is concerned with people and their well being ---- that's what i understood from you posts so don;t worry i am sure there will be many good people out there more than happy to be your friend and if you need any help .. all the memebers of this board insha'Allah will be more then happy to help you..

Best wishes- May Allah guide you to inner peace and Eternal Happiness

I hope some of what i said made some sense, i also hope it helps

Salaam :)
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sister herb
06-24-2011, 01:22 PM
truthseeker63

If you want to be one of us, say shahada alone. If you afraid do so, ask Allah help you.
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Perseveranze
06-24-2011, 02:19 PM
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ProudMuslimSis
06-24-2011, 04:26 PM
truthseeker63,
Thank you for being so open and honest.
You have a lot to offer the forum and the Muslim community.
Concentrate on the gifts that you possess instead of any shortcomings...we all have those.
I look forward to calling you a Brother.
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IAmZamzam
06-24-2011, 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
I want to become a Muslim but I am fearful about meeting new people I want to make Friends with Muslims and socialize but I am a shy person I would love to go to my local Mosque and learn I have Asperger Syndrome and am viewed as Disabled or Handicapped by the State I want to know how a handicapped/disabled person is viewed in Islam I am a White Male with some American Indian/Native American Anestry not that my Anestry matters I am 23 years old and I tried being a Christian but Christianity is too hard to believe and Judaism is not right for me since the Jews reject Prophet/Messiah Jesus peace be upon him and Prophet/Messenger Muhammad peace be upon him what should I do ?
First off, don't get too concerned with useless labels like "Asperger's". Every person is an entire person unto themselves and a unique mental case and at the very best mood and personality disorders are just feeble attempts to treat common problems that have little in the way of common cause. But it's not even that: everyone is diagnosed with Asperger's now because it's the disease of the moment, along with bipolar disorder and ADD. "Handicapped" is basically another word for "unordinary". And I am speaking as someone who is diagnosed with all three, so don't think I have some ignorance or bias on the matter. Mental disorders, whether belonging to current psychiatric trend and vogue or not, are just arbitrarily decided upon meaningless groups of personality traits, a textbook example of the statistical cluster effect. If you have enough people in the world then there's bound to be a large number of people with any combination of traits you can think of: the only difference is whether or not psychologists have bothered to come up with a label for them and a personal subjective judgment on whether or not they think it's good for anyone alive to have said traits. And again, getting diagnosed with one of the specific disorders mentioned above now seems to require little more than breathing in and out. I am not saying this to impugn anything you've said about social anxiety, which is a far from unheard of trait even for those not alleged to have any disorders. It is the psychiatric community, and especially the DSM, that I am attacking, not you. My advice for you is to think of your problems as your very own, just the same as you would if you'd never heard of any disorders, and try to overcome them as you would any emotional or character flaw. Common sense is all you ever need.

As for joining Islam I would be glad to help in any way I can: it's literally why I'm here. And I hope I haven't got things off to the wrong start. If you can't bring yourself to go to a mosque then you could always watch services online on Friday, although I think a better idea would be to find a small mosque with few members.
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Impey
06-24-2011, 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by MSalman
Your writing style seems very familiar. I can care less about your disguises or reasons for it. Before I answer your questions or rather further humiliate you by exposing your ignorance, I will give you benefit of doubt. Since you said you want to learn the basics, let's start from the basics:

1) Do you believe in God?
2) If you say yes to 1), do you believe in a religion? If so, what is your religion?
3) If you say yes to 1), do you believe God is the supreme ruler?
4) Do you think we should let man-made laws dictate our lives? Why or why not?
I will try to be as clear as I can.
1. If you mean do I believe in what you call Allah the answer is no. If there is a God that I could believe in he would be compassionate, loving and logically consistent and I don't see any of those in Islam.

2. If I were to choose a religion and being honest I hardly know much about most world religions I would choose Christianity because it accords and advocates the Golden Rule - do unto other as you would have them do to you and it works without the absolute legalism and intolerance I have found so far in Islam.

3. I have no clear idea what you mean by 'supreme ruler' as I don't see where this is happening, the world just gets on using the laws of physics and I can do my own thing as you do yours and I certainly shy away from any arrogance that I might know what God wants

4. Of course as I do not see how we can have any other kind of laws. In any case I don't need the Qu'ran or your hadith to tell me what is right and wrong
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Impey
06-24-2011, 11:02 PM
Originally Posted by Ramadhan
Qur'an is divinely protected from any changing and there is no error. You seem to have really short memory, you have not been away from IB that long (does creating new username mean you lost your past memory too?), and it has been proven to you many times in the past in many discussions involving you. It's a pity sis. Lily is not really active anymore, otherwise I'm sure she would have been glad to show you again.
Well you have to prove it. I have read a good number of hadith so far (mainly for the music thread) but also looked at hadith science - now everywhere I have looked it talks about this 'divine protection from error' but as far as I can tell it is an assumption as not one of the papers attempted to justify it - perhaps you can? However, I have also discovered that interpretations are NOT divinely protected so ispo factor sharia must be the work of men or to put it more technically Allah and His Messenger are divinely protected from error, instead of taking it from the madhhabs or "schools of jurisprudence" of the mujtahid Imams such as Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi‘i, and Ahmad, which are not?"

I now know that to better understand Islam, one must appreciate the thoroughly legalistic nature of the religion. According to sharia every conceivable human act is categorised as being either forbidden, discouraged, permissible, recommended, or obligatory. "Common sense" or "universal opinion" has little to do with Islam's notions of right and wrong. Only what Allah (through the Quran) and his prophet Muhammad (through the Hadith) have to say about any given issue matters; and how Islam's greatest theologians and jurists – collectively known as the ulema, literally, "they who know" – have articulated it.

So it matters not to you what arguments anyone might bring about right or wrong they are all irrelevant so there is no logic needed other that to decide what a group of hadith say. So if the hadith collectively say the sun goes round the earth that is right no matter what science says, similarly if I bring an argument that having more than one wife is wrong you do not, cannot consider that argument, all you are interested in is what does the law say?

So you have found contradictory hadiths, can you show us some examples along with their details, classifications, and the context? And I am sure you are familiar with classifications based on the isnad and mat'an.
I can hardly believe you are asking this, I am a total beginner and know already the are contradictory hadith - what do you think hadith science is for, why you have to collect all the relevant hadith before you make a judgement. Go and do some work and read http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/madhhabstlk.htm

Yes I have. It was a bible a couple of christian missionaries gave to me when I was studying in college. Actually they have put the bible online: http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/index.htm And it does occur to me that you actually have not read the whole bible, and so I'd suggest you go to that site and read it.
Here again you just show you don't know much - anyone at all can tell you that the site you quote is a Jehovah's Witness site and with a tiny bit of searching I easily found http://www.biblegateway.com/ where I can if I so wished look at many different translations. I conclude you don't have 'more knowledge about bible than most christians'. As you quoted the Bible can I assume you regard it as an authority?

Actually, I am far more respectful to Jesus (pbuh) than any christians in this forum. I always send salam and pray for him whenever I write his name, and everytime I read his story in the Qur'an, I also send supplications for him.
You do seem a little arrogant and so far in this board no one else talks like that. I don't understand what you mean when you say you pray for Jesus but I take it 'supplications means you also pray TO him?


Prophet Muhammad was known as always telling the truth, and this was corroborated by everyone, including his enemies.
And of course only prophet Muhammad SAW directly received the words being revealed to him, had others also heard it live, then the others would have been messengers of God too, you know this but you are pretending you did not. But the events when revelations were taking place were witnessed by other shahaba, and you must have known this too.
Can you tell me where is says that others HEARD the actual words of revelation from the angel.
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sister herb
06-25-2011, 08:22 AM
truthseeker63

I know sister from my country who is muslim and asperger. I will ask her to talk with you if you like.

She might knows better what it is be muslim with this.
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truthseeker63
06-26-2011, 04:34 PM
Islamic Economic System vs Capitalism I like to study Economic this is why Im asking this question correct me if Im wrong but Capitalism allows exploitation of the Poor and of Labor under Capitalism in the United States which is really a Mixed Economy/Regulated Capitalism of both Capitalism and Socialism but mostly Capitalism the United States allows Gambling/Casinos which makes and can make people poor or poorer you can have Usury Banking and Slavery my question is what is the solution to Wage Slavery where the Working Poor get paid money which is very little is Zakat and Sadaqah the solution since Capitalism is based on Greed ?

38- SOCIAL JUSTICE, SOCIALISM, CAPITALISM Islam has prevented the reign of capital and in order to remove the abyss between the employee and the employer, it has provided the employee with a right to share in the capital and in the profit. Everybody can invest his money in a business. He can earn a great profit. Thus the money is not put into a bank. Banks cannot exploit the people by taking interest. Moreover, the rich have been ordered by Islam to give zakat to the poor. This is the only form for the basis of social justice. Zakat means to give one-fortieth of one's property to those who have the prescribed qualities. In Islam, those who are healthy enough to work are prohibited from begging. Zakat is given to those who are too ill or too disabled to work and to those who can work but earn their living with difficulty. Allahu ta'ala created one such poor person in every forty people. A rich Muslim who gives them zakat both gains Allah's love by doing his duty in the din and performs his social responsibility. He also protects his property and wealth against the rights and the attacks of the poor. If we calculate the national wealth and give one-fortieth of it to the needy, the danger of communism will not arise in any country. Nor will there be any reason why it should arise. Zakat, 'ushr (a kind of zakat), and alms are a kind of a social provision, and they are the divine precautions commanded in order to prevent economical disasters. The more they are obeyed the better the calamity of communism will be prevented.

http://www.hizmetbooks.org/Endless_B.../bliss2-38.htm

Fundamentals of Islamic Economic System By Dr. Muhammad Sharif Chaudhry

6. Distribution of Wealth: Capitalism does not believe in fair and just distribution of wealth. Since it believers in full economic freedom and private ownership of means of production, wide economic disparities exist in capitalistic economy. Concentration of wealth in few hands takes place while huge majority of the populace is deprived of the very basic necessities of life. The privileged few live in luxury while poverty, ignorance, disease and unemployment is the lot of the multitude. This disturbed balance of distribution of economic resources and unbridgeable gulf between the haves and have-nots ultimately leads to class struggle and ultimate overthrow of the very system.
Islam, on the one hand guarantees provision of basic human needs such as food, clothing and shelter to everyone and, on the other hand, ensures fair and equitable distribution of wealth and economic resources among all. It does not tolerate existence of wide disparities among the rich and the poor and tries to eliminate concentration of wealth in few hands. For bridging the gulf between the rich and the poor and for ensuring equitable distribution of wealth, Islam has taken many steps such as Zakat and Sadaqat, laws of inheritance and bequest, voluntary charities and compulsory contributions in the form of taxes and duties. To prevent concentration of wealth in few hands Islamic economic code has taken measures like abolition of interest, prohibition of earning of wealth through haram means, prohibition of hoarding of wealth, etc.

http://www.muslimtents.com/shaufi/b16index.htm
Zakat (the Alms Tax) What is Zakat?
Giving money for charity is highly commendable, and the sky is the limit, but Zakat is different because it is obligatory and is given in a calculated amount.
Why?
Zakat represents the unbreakable bond between members of the community, whom prophet Mohammad described to be "like the organs of the body, if one suffers then all others rally in response." One of the most important principles of Islam is that all things belong to God, and that wealth is therefore held by human beings in trust. The word zakat means both 'purification' and 'growth'. Our possessions are purified by setting aside a proportion for those in need, and, like the pruning of plants, this cutting back balances and encourages new growth.
Zakah does not only purifies the property of the contributor but also purifies his heart from selfishness and greed. It also purifies the heart of the recipient from envy and jealousy, from hatred and uneasiness and it fosters instead good-will and warm wishes for the contributors.
As Muslims pay the Zakat they have the genuine feeling that it is an investment and not a debit helping to establish economic balance and social justice in the society.
In general terms, what remains over and above the meeting of needs and expenses, and is hoarded for the full span of one year, is liable to Zakat. Zakat is the right of the poor in the wealth of the rich and is neither optional charity nor philanthropy.
Zakah has a deep humanitarian and social-political value; for example, it frees society from class welfare, from ill feelings and distrust and from corruption. Although Islam does not hinder private enterprise or condemn private possession, it does not tolerate selfish and greedy capitalism. Islam adopts a moderate but positive and effective course between individual and society, between the citizen and the state, between capitalism and socialism, between materialism and spiritualism.

How is it Calculated?
Zakah is a proportionately fixed contribution collected from the surplus wealth and earnings of the Muslim. Each Muslim calculates his or her own zakat individually. Zakah is paid on the net balance after paying personal expenses, family expenses, due credits, taxes, etc. Every Muslim male or female who at the end of the year is in possession of the equivalent of 85 grams of gold (approx. $1400 in 1990) or more in cash or articles of trade, must give Zakah at the minimum rate of 2.5%. Taxes paid to government do not substitute for this religious duty. The contributor should not seek pride or fame but if disclosing his name and his contribution is likely to encourage others, it is acceptable to do so.
Other gains and profits have their respective formulae, such as proceeds from industry, agriculture and animal husbandry, real estate, etc. as thoroughly detailed in specialized references.
Note the obligatory nature of Zakah; it is required. Muslims can also go above and beyond what they pay as Zakah, in which case the offering is a strictly voluntary charity (sadaqa). Sadaqa is given preferably in secret. Although this word can be translated as 'voluntary charity' it has a wider meaning. The Prophet said 'even meeting your brother with a cheerful face is charity'.
The Prophet said: 'Charity is a necessity for every Muslim'. He was asked: 'What if a person has nothing?' The Prophet replied: 'He should work with his own hands for his benefit and then give something out of such earnings in charity'. The Companions asked: 'What if he is not able to work?' The Prophet said: 'He should help poor and needy persons.' The Companions further asked 'What is he cannot do even that?' The Prophet said 'He should urge others to do good'. The Companions said 'What if he lacks that also?' The Prophet said 'He should check himself from doing evil. That is also charity.'

http://www.dawanet.com/nonmuslim/int...m/charity.html

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Abu Fatimah
06-27-2011, 06:07 PM
go to inflation.us

then click on videos, for some awesome videos on this

it wont let me post a link, can someone post a direct link?
Reply

Abu Fatimah
06-27-2011, 06:11 PM
hi there, im a 23 year old english convert, let me tell you, muslims are the least judgemental people you will meet, they are the only group of people wh will have a go at someone for speaking ill of you or making fun, and they overlook your faults and think good ofyou, believe me you will be treated like a king if you embrace islam, i am talking from experience you will be very happy inshAllah (god willing), im sure of that
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SFatima
06-28-2011, 12:17 PM
Dear sister, Do not worry at all, think of it this way, you're looking to join this huge community of 1.3 plus billion people, with a diverse ethnic background, you'll find a muslim in every race and in every place, how much more interesting things can get ? :D You'll not only have so much fun learning about so many things, you will be surprised InshAllah (God willing) that you'll be a more confident person once you take the shahada and lets all pray to Allah swt to keep you in His utmost protection and shower you with Love, happiness and ease in your acceptance towards islam, ameen. If you've come this far, all you need is a little more courage and rest assured you'll do great InshAllah. :)

Peace to you.
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truthseeker63
07-01-2011, 10:49 PM
Is there such a thing as fair wages or a minimum wage living wage under Islam's Economic System and or the Sharia Law what would the Sharia do about the Wage Slavery that we see under Capitalism here is a link I found on the subject.

http://www.muslimtents.com/shaufi/b16/b16_8.htm
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GuestFellow
07-01-2011, 10:58 PM
Thank you for posting this.
Reply

truthseeker63
07-02-2011, 09:18 PM
Thank You for your post.
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truthseeker63
07-02-2011, 11:19 PM
What does everyone else think ?
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GuestFellow
07-03-2011, 11:30 AM
^ Salaam,

Islam does have the best solution to the minimum wage problem:

The minimum wage rate in an Islamic society will be determined keeping in view the basic human needs which include food, clothing and house. A worker shall be paid adequate wages so that he can meet expenses on his and his family’s food, clothing and house. He should also be provided for his children’s education and medical treatment of his ownself and his family. It is reported that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) used to prescribe minimum wages of a person engaged for some government job with a view to provide him decent living. He used to say:

“For a Government servant, if he is not married, he should get married; if he has no servant, he may have one; if he has no house to live, he may build one’ and any one who exceeds this limit is either a usurper or a thief.”

This yardstick fixed by the Prophet of Islam should be kept in view while fixing minimum wages in an Islamic state.
In the UK, the minimum wage is not sufficient.
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truthseeker63
07-05-2011, 12:17 AM
Are married people allowed to have sex for pleasure in Islam or is sex only for procreation ?
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Ali Mujahidin
07-05-2011, 03:24 AM
:sl:

I have not found anything in Islam which says that married people cannot enjoy sex with people they are properly married to.
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Zafran
07-05-2011, 04:46 AM
salaam

sex in marriage is an act of worship.

peace
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Riana17
07-05-2011, 06:52 AM
Salam

In islam husband and wife both have the right for sexual satisfaction, a spouse's sexual advances should be welcomed.

This is why the Shariah has made it obligatory for both spouses to fulfill the sexual needs of their spouse in marriage

“Among the rulings of marriage is that each spouse is allowed to derive sexual pleasure from the other.” [ Radd al-Muhtar, 3.4]
Also: "...on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. (The Noble Quran, 4:19)"


In Islam, man and woman in general, as well as husband and wife in particular, are equal partners; just as a husband has needs to which a wife is expected to be responsive, a wife also has needs to which a husband should be responsive. To be successful, marriage must be based on mutual reciprocity and consensual relationship. We know that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was in the habit of drinking from the same cup with his wife, thus placing his lips in the same spot where she placed hers. He would take a bite of food and then she would take another bite. It is this Prophetic attitude of mutual respect, affection, and companionship that should serve as a role model for all the married couples in Islam”.
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Salahudeen
07-05-2011, 09:00 AM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
Are married people allowed to have sex for pleasure in Islam or is sex only for procreation ?
“Concerning sexual relations, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) brought the most perfect guidance, whereby health may be preserved and people may find pleasure and enjoyment, and it may fulfil the purpose for which it was created, because sex was created for three basic purposes:

The preservation and propagation of the human race, until they reach the number of souls that Allaah has decreed should be created in this world.

Expulsion of the water (semen) which may cause harm to the body if it is retained.

Fulfilling physical desires and enjoying physical pleasure. This alone is the feature that will be present in Paradise, because there will be no producing of offspring there, and no retention which needs to be relieved by ejaculation.

The best doctors suggest that sex is one of the means of maintaining good health.

(al-Tibb al-Nabawi, p. 249).

full link http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/5560/
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DippedinJannah
07-05-2011, 10:24 PM
Sex is a taste of paradise.

Yes, I have heard Sheikhs say that. It is a hint, a suggestion of paradise -a pale imitation - but nonetheless, a taste.
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truthseeker63
07-13-2011, 04:02 AM
Im a Male who lives in the West and I feel there is a lot of exploitation of Women in the West my question is what rights do Muslim Women have do they have equal rights also I respect Muslim Women I believe they are the best Women on our planet compared to non Muslim Women ?
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Salahudeen
07-13-2011, 10:57 AM
This is part 3 of 21 if you want me to post the next parts let me know :)





Part 4 of 21





Part 5 of 21

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Starrynight
07-13-2011, 02:09 PM
^These are great. Thank you! Please post more
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truthseeker63
07-14-2011, 04:40 AM
Is Prostitution haram or a sin or not allowed in Islam and for Muslims I am against Prostitution this is why Im asking this question I believe that Prostitution hurts harms and is Exploitation of Women ?
Islamic sexual jurisprudence
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sex outside of marriage
Prostitution

In Islam prostitution is forbidden on all grounds. It is considered a sin in its form. As referenced here: Sahih al-Bukhari, 3:34:439

Allah's Apostle forbade taking the price of a dog, money earned by prostitution and the earnings of a soothsayer

—Abu Mas'ud Al-Ansari

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic..._jurisprudence
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GuestFellow
07-14-2011, 11:04 PM
Salaam,

Thanks for sharing!
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Skillganon
07-15-2011, 12:23 AM
There is never a stupid question when it concerns people.
The very fact that someone is asking that is a good indication that their are people who may not know the answer to that question.

There are people who don't know the basic of Islam or what should be known by necessity. (not directed towards to Author of the OP)
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truthseeker63
07-15-2011, 04:17 PM
Is Patriotism not Nationalism allowed in Islam or is both allowed Im from the United States and want to know if I can be a American Patriot and a Muslim at the sametime Im not saying that I support the American Government's policies towards Iraq and Afghanistan and Palestine but I do respect my nation's Founding Fathers who fought the British Empire and I have respect for the American Constitution even though I believe it is outdated and not needed anymore I have no respect for any of America's Presidents who have been President in the past 50 years but I do respect the Founders I don't hate the American People or America because I know that Americans and America are and is under Zionist Occupation too just like Palestine is and the Palestinians and or the Palestinian People are ?
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Perseveranze
07-15-2011, 05:03 PM
This is what someone else wrote and I think they put it quite well -

Thank you for your question. Loving one's country and its people is a good trait of Muslims, as our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) has amply demonstrated. This is what we mean by patriotism.

But there is an intense form of it called nationalism that urges people to adopt the position that their country is right and should be supported in whatever it does, even if that means supporting injustice.

Muslims have to necessarily abide by Allah's commandments regarding truth and justice. Therefore, they cannot adopt an attitude of blind patriotism or nationalism because it tends to instill into people a belief that their nation is superior to other nations, notwithstanding the principle of human equality and brotherhood upheld by Islam.

Besides, extreme nationalists relegate God and His religion to a secondary status, placing nationalist considerations uppermost. And nationalism tends to pit one nation against another in pursuit of political hegemony or economic exploitation. They reject the guidance of God to adopt short-sighted jingoism out of a desire to dominate other nations.

Nationalists do not stand for justice in causes, but cling to narrow sectarian allegiance. Hence they may oppose Muslims who support those fighting for their basic human rights irrespective of national borders, such as the Palestinians, the Iraqis, or the Chechens.

Nationalists' political philosophy is derived from ancient tribal affinities and goes back to pre-Islamic times. As observed by the Muslim scholar Dr. Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, the ideology of nationalism was first planted in Muslim societies by Western occupiers and their stooges.

Muslims living in the contemporary world should be realistic enough to adopt a policy of harmony and peace as far as possible. They should understand that the national flag and national anthem are powerful symbols of a country, and respecting them simply means that they are ready to live there as loyal citizens.

Disrespecting the national flag or the anthem would be considered an open challenge to the government attracting due punishment.

Moreover, Islam orders us to do our best to become good citizens in the countries we live in. Muslims have to honor the laws of the country where they live as long as such laws do not contradict the teachings of Islam.

In this connection the opinion of Sheikh Faysal Mawlawi, deputy chairman of the European Council for Fatwa and Research, is relevant:

Muslims living in non-Muslim countries are to respect the symbols of those countries such as the national anthem, national flag, etc. This is part of what citizenship dictates as per modern customs. … Thus, standing up for the national anthem is not a form of prohibited loyalty. If a Muslim is to change a wrong action in a majority non-Muslim country, let him do that through da`wah, wisdom, and fair exhortation. At the same time, he should not obey any rules that involve disobedience to Allah.

When Muslims living in non-Muslim countries stand up to respect their national anthems, their intention is not to approve the un-Islamic rulings prevalent in those countries. They are simply performing a national duty, that is, loving their nation.

And this expression of patriotism has nothing to do with worship, as there is neither prayer nor remembrance of God involved in it. Thus, it cannot be called a prohibited act.
“O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honourable of you with Allaah is that (believer) who has At‑Taqwa [i.e. he is one of the Muttaqoon (the pious)]. Verily, Allaah is All‑Knowing, All‑Aware”
[al-Hujuraat 49:13]
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truthseeker63
07-15-2011, 07:43 PM
Can Muslims read Books besides the Holy Quran and the Hadith I ordered a Book online written by a Muslim named Shabir Ally the Book is called is Jesus God the Bible says no I also have a Book about Science in the Quran I have a Book about Islam and Science in Medieval Spain ?
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truthseeker63
07-15-2011, 07:53 PM
My question are Muslims only allowed to read the Quran and the Hadith can Muslims read other Books Im asking this because some religions or sects only allow it's followers to read the Religion's Holy Book ?
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truthseeker63
07-15-2011, 08:03 PM
September 14, 2009, 4:27 pm
Bin Laden’s Reading List for Americans

By SHARON OTTERMAN and ROBERT MACKEY
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/200...for-americans/
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Flame of Hope
07-15-2011, 08:35 PM
I think a Muslim who limits his reading to just the Qur'an and the hadiths does not possess much understanding of his religion.
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truthseeker63
07-15-2011, 09:19 PM
What is the differnce between a Kippah and or Taqiyah they are both Caps ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kippah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyah_(cap)
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Who Am I?
07-15-2011, 09:39 PM
:sl:

You know, it's funny: I started out reading the Qur'an as a curiosity, because I had heard so much about it and about Islam, and I wanted to see the truth for myself. I never thought that it would lead me to where I am today.

Anyway, I still read history books and stuff on top of my books about Islam.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
07-15-2011, 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
My question are Muslims only allowed to read the Quran and the Hadith can Muslims read other Books Im asking this because some religions or sects only allow it's followers to read the Religion's Holy Book ?
As-Salaamu Alaaykum

I am not sure, but i would sincerely advice that before reading other books, read your own book first, study it etc.
To study Qur'aan and hadeeth can take a life time, so why not study your book? There is soo much to learn. It is not a sin to study another religion, keep in mind Allaah does say in his noble book:

"There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower."

Note: Allaah says the Right path has become clear from the wrong path. And he says he is All Hearer, All knower.

One who is convinced Qur'aan is the word of Allaah will know that the other books were also once the word of God i.e. contained the word of God. So if some teachings in the Torah, Zabur, Injeel are same as the Qur'aan then know that they are correct, and if not they are changed as Allaah mentioned in his book.

"Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allah," to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby." [Al Qur'aan 2:79]

So if you want to study something, study something authentic, which doesnt deny the original teachings of Moses,David, Jesus (pbut), so there is no denying, but you can do all the research you want and insha'Allaah you will come back to the Qur'aan, Islaam the message that all messengers came with.

If you do consider studying the Bible or any other book, then be sure to focus on what the messenger taught their follower to practice in their daily life, and see if that is what the followers are doing today.
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Predator
07-15-2011, 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
Can Muslims read Books besides the Holy Quran and the Hadith I ordered a Book online written by a Muslim named Shabir Ally the Book is called is Jesus God the Bible says no I also have a Book about Science in the Quran I have a Book about Islam and Science in Medieval Spain ?
Of course , they can. Allah says so it in the Quran. Read the verse in my signature . it says you need to ask for the proof which destines us to hell and destines them to heaven
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Kitsune92
07-15-2011, 10:21 PM
Yup, of course we can!
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truthseeker63
07-17-2011, 06:48 AM
Does anybody know thank you ?
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truthseeker63
07-17-2011, 09:41 AM
Can Muslims have a Cat or Cats for a pet or pets is this allowed also is it true that the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him had a Cat named Muezza also can the Pet Cat that Muslims have be of any color like a White Cat a Black Cat or a Brown Cat thank you Im asking this question because I know Muslims are not allowed to have Dogs as pets and or keep Dogs in the home also Cats are my favorite kind of Animal I love Cats they are beautiful ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muezza

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_animals

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/7004
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ardianto
07-17-2011, 10:38 AM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
Does anybody know thank you ?
All of those stuffs are head cap. The only difference is in design, and name.

There is no prohibition for Muslims to wear Jewish Kippah, as long as it doesn't contains symbol of Judaism or other religions.
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truthseeker63
07-18-2011, 07:18 AM
The Taliban did the right thing banning the Internet I agree with this article what does everyone else think of this article ?

Afghanistan's Taliban Bans Internet

Reuters, July 14, 2001

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Afghanistan's ruling Taliban movement has banned the use of the Internet in the war-torn country to stop access to vulgar, immoral and anti-Islamic material, an Afghan news service says.
The Pakistan-based Afghan Islamic Press (AIP) quoted Taliban Foreign Minister Maulvi Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil as saying the movement was not against the Internet as such but was opposed to obscenity, vulgarity and anti-Islamic ``stuff'' on it.
"We want to establish a system in Afghanistan through which we can control all those things that are wrong, obscene, immoral and against Islam,'' he said.
The ban also applies to government departments, AIP said.
It was not immediately known how many people or offices use the Internet in a country in which infrastructure is in ruins because of more than two decades of war. There are not many computers and most of areas do not have electricity.
Those who can afford to, including foreign aid agencies, log onto the Internet through the few telephone lines provided by neighboring Pakistan. Users, both official and private, log on to Internet service providers in Pakistan in the absence of such facilities in Afghanistan.
Muttawakil said the Taliban were unable to restrict or control the use of the Internet because access to it was through Pakistani telephone lines.
The hard-line Taliban movement follow a strict interpretation of Islam, not shared by other Muslim countries.
Muttawakil said the Taliban wanted to keep society away from trends promoting obscenity and immorality through the Internet.
AIP did not say Friday when the ban was imposed and how the Taliban planned to ensure that telephone lines were not being used to access the Internet. But most Taliban decisions and edicts on conduct are ruthlessly enforced by their powerful religious police working under the Ministry for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice.

http://www.rawa.org/internet.htm
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birkah
07-18-2011, 10:06 AM
For our sources of ultimate guidance are the Quran and the Sunnah of Prophet SAW. Prophet SAW saw Umar RA reading the bible and he became angry. The ulema explained this hadith saying that it was not the facat that he was reading the bible, rather lookign for guidance in it, is what Prophet SAW denounced.

Reading is essential, as the first word revealed is a command telling us to read. Also, Allah tells us to reflect over the creation, ponder, look at your own self, the Earth... and these reflections are faciliated by having a knowledge about different fields of academia.

I made a post about reading on Birkah (the address is under my avatar on location). Here it is:
اقرأ باسم ربك الذي خلق

Recite with the name of your Lord the who created

  • Meanings: could be حال — using the help, or مفتتحا — opening (e.g. a textbook), or مخلصا — sincerley.
  • Didn’t say “in the name of Allah.” Rabb has the connotation of nurturing, upbringing, etc. This word is used for parents as they do tarbiya — bring up — of the child. This is the first revelation and you can imagine how difficult it was for Prophet SAW. By using Rabb, he is being reminded, don’t worry. I am your Rab, and I will take care of you, make this journey easy for you…
  • This is a transitive (المتعدي) verb, one that requires an object (مفعول به). This object has been dropped and the effect is expansion of meaning; anything you can think of, Allah created it, and hence there is no need to mention it.
  • Creates exclusivity. It is only Allah who created everything.
  • This ayah should instil in us an awe of the power of Allah over all of creation, and should lead us to want to learn more about it
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aamirsaab
07-18-2011, 09:21 PM
Don't see the point in restricting internet. At most, 1 out of every 100 afghanis has access to the internet and I'm pretty sure the taliban themselves have a twitter account!
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Who Am I?
07-18-2011, 09:59 PM
:sl:

I don't agree with censorship of any kind. If you want to prevent access to un-Islamic things, educate your people. Show them what is right and what is wrong, and why it is right and why it is wrong. Let them figure things out for themselves. But censorship is wrong, and is the refuge of the weak and cowardly, IMHO.
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tigerkhan
07-19-2011, 05:55 AM
i know many ppl in pakistan without having access to internet and wallah they are happy and safe from many fitnas.
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truthseeker63
07-20-2011, 04:23 AM
Can it be proven that King Solomon built the Masjid al Aqsa the Mosque in Jerusalem Palestine and not a Temple like the Jews/Judaism claims can it be proven that Jerusalem/Holy Land belongs to Muslims/Islam ?

The Ancient Kingdom of Israel (part 6 of 6): Kingship and Prophethood

Description: An army marches and King Solomon encounters Queen Bilqis.
By Aisha Stacey (© 2009 IslamReligion.com)
Published on 11 May 2009 - Last modified on 25 Aug 2009
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Category: Articles > Comparative Religion > Judaism

The Mosque in Jerusalem
Muslims believe that Masjid al Aqsa (the Holy Mosque in Jerusalem) was rebuilt or expanded by King Solomon. According to Islamic history, Prophet Jacob, built Masjid al Aqsa approximately 40 years after his grandfather Prophet Abraham built the House of God in Mecca. Islam totally rejects the notion that King Solomon built a temple on the Masjid al Aqsa site, and herein lays one of the basic differences between Jewish and Islamic belief. It is what causes some of the dilemmas that exist in the Holy Land today. Although a Prophet in all three monotheistic religions, small differences about the nature and history of Solomon have, over time, created great divides.

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/2501/
Reply

Eric H
07-20-2011, 09:54 AM
Greetings and peace be with you truthseeker63;
.
I think this is a place to search for God, rather than religion.
.

In 2009 I had the privilege to go to Jerusalem, and stand by the Wailing Wall, which is a sacred place to the Jews. But when you look above the wall, you see the golden dome of ‘The Dome of the Rock Mosque, and the Al Aqsa sacred to Islam. As you queue up to go up to the mosque from the Jewish side, there is a sign that says – God is always present here.
Most of the Christian holy places are within the Muslim quarters of Jerusalem, this in turn is surrounded by the Jews.
.

It is said in Judaism and Christianity, that God commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son in the region of Mount Moriah. It is also said that God commanded Solomon to build the Temple Mount on Mount Moriah, this is a huge structure, a small part of it is what we know as the Wailing Wall, or Western Wall. On top of the Temple Mount, God commanded Solomon to build a Temple, that will house ‘The Ark of the Covenant’ better known for the Ten Commandments. Jesus prayed on the Temple Mount, and when he healed people he sent them to the Temple to give thanks.


The prophet pbuh ascended to heaven on this same site, associated with Abraham, Moses, Solomon, and Jesus.
.

It seems that God has brought all three religions together in so many ways, and it seems to be a place to search for God rather than religion.
.

In the spirit of searching for One God

Eric
Reply

User2024
07-21-2011, 06:31 PM
it's wrong, lol, people can also learn from the internet, how about some women who reverted cause of Youtube, internet helps.....of course they can ban the anti-Islamic stuff but the again as said at top if people are educated about Islam then there are no problems...
Reply

Trumble
07-21-2011, 08:59 PM
The most important step in controlling how people think is controlling the media they have access to. First among "all those things that are wrong, obscene, immoral and against Islam", of course, would be anything criticizing the Taliban themselves.
Reply

GuestFellow
07-21-2011, 09:15 PM
Salaam,

I don't think this ban is going to work in the long-term.
Reply

MustafaMc
07-21-2011, 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Salaam,

I don't think this ban is going to work in the long-term.
This is old news Reuters, July 14, 2001 and became obsolete when the USA invaded the country.

According to Wikipedia, "Afghanistan was given legal control of the ".af" domain in 2003, and the Afghanistan Network Information Center (AFGNIC) was established to administer domain names. As of 2010, there are at least 46 internet service providers (ISPs) in the country. Internet in Afghanistan is also at the peak with 1 million users in 2009. Work on the fiber optic project began in April 2007, the fibre optic network would connect all the country's provinces, districts and even villages to each other. Since 2011 Afghanistan has been connected to Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Iran and Pakistan through fibre optics; the overall cost of the fiber optic project will cost $83 million. Implementation of this project will decrease internet prices in the country while the speed will increase. The project would serve as a bridge between the Central Asian countries and the Middle East, and Afghanistan would be linked to Europe and Asia through the network connection with Uzbekistan telecommunication service."
Reply

GuestFellow
07-21-2011, 11:11 PM
^ Salaam,

Thanks for pointing that out.
Reply

truthseeker63
07-22-2011, 12:25 AM
Are Muslims allowed to read the Bible if not can Islamic Scholars read the Bible ?
Reply

Woodrow
07-22-2011, 02:10 AM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
Are Muslims allowed to read the Bible if not can Islamic Scholars read the Bible ?
We are not under any censorship. However, we do consider it sinful for reading or doing anything without a constructive purpose. None of us will ever live long enough to read all there is to know about our faith. Idle reading of another raith would be wasted time that could have been used to learn more about our own faith. So on a personal note I suggest that non-Muslims avoid reading the scripture of any other faith, unless they have a need to do so. I do not know of any specific rulings that forbid us from reading the Bible, but we must be mindful is it can become a source of fitnah.
Reply

Darth Ultor
07-22-2011, 02:53 AM
So it's a sin to read literature? Or am I misinterpreting your message?
Reply

Just_A_Girl13
07-22-2011, 03:05 AM
Salaam,

I don't claim to be any kind of expert, but I don't see how it could do any harm. I think that people should have a chance to learn about other faiths so that they can respect others' beliefs.

Originally Posted by Boaz
So it's a sin to read literature? Or am I misinterpreting your message?
Salaam brother,

I think brother Woodrow is saying that a Muslim should not waste all of their time reading the Bible rather than reading about Islam unless, of course, they have a good reason. Perhaps it would be more permissible to read the Bible if you spent an equal or greater amount of time reading the Qur'an, but I'm not certain. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Peace and blessings be with you all :)
Reply

Darth Ultor
07-22-2011, 03:55 AM
But aren't one of the articles of faith to believe in the revealed books?
Reply

Just_A_Girl13
07-22-2011, 04:03 AM
Originally Posted by Boaz
But aren't one of the articles of faith to believe in the revealed books?
Yes. But we can certainly read other books without necessarily believing in them. We should read the books of other faiths for the purposes of educating ourselves about other beliefs. That's my opinion, at least.

Peace
Reply

Ramadhan
07-22-2011, 04:06 AM
Originally Posted by Boaz
But aren't one of the articles of faith to believe in the revealed books?

Bible is not one of the revealed books.
Reply

Ramadhan
07-22-2011, 04:06 AM
Originally Posted by Just_A_Girl13
Yes. But we can certainly read other books without necessarily believing in them. We should read the books of other faiths for the purposes of educating ourselves about other beliefs. That's my opinion, at least. Peace
:sl:

Bible is not a revealed book.
Reply

Darth Ultor
07-22-2011, 04:08 AM
The Gospel of Jesus was. The Torah was.
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Just_A_Girl13
07-22-2011, 04:13 AM
Originally Posted by Ramadhan
Bible is not a revealed book.
Salaam,

Ah, I must have misinterpreted brother Boaz's question. Thank you for clarifying. I told you I wasn't an expert :p

Peace
Reply

Ramadhan
07-22-2011, 04:33 AM
Originally Posted by Boaz
The Gospel of Jesus was. The Torah was.

Yes, the gospel of Jesus and the Torah are revealed books.
Bible is not.
Reply

Who Am I?
07-22-2011, 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
The most important step in controlling how people think is controlling the media they have access to. First among "all those things that are wrong, obscene, immoral and against Islam", of course, would be anything criticizing the Taliban themselves.
:sl:

Exactly. This is why I despise censorship of any kind.
Reply

truthseeker63
07-22-2011, 11:26 PM
I found this on Yahoo Answers I would like to ask as a white male myself with native or american indian in me I would like to ask is this person right that white people who want to become Muslims are not taken seriously by the Muslim Community this hurts my feelings in a way to read this but I thought Islam did not care about skin color ?

Mels

Muslims don't take white converts seriously just as hindus don't take white converts seriously. It's just a fact, sorry.

Hindu and Muslim friends have told me so.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1181212AAVQ2bW
Reply

GuestFellow
07-22-2011, 11:49 PM
Salaam,

Anyone who wants to convert to Islam should be taken seriously. From my experience, most Muslims welcome converts, treat them kindly and offer them support.
Reply

Jalal~
07-23-2011, 12:41 AM
LOL the mel person is lying. Islam sees no colors at all. It does not matter what skin color you are, you will be taken seriously once you convert; there will be many many many people to help you out with your religion; Mel probably does not have any practicing Muslim or Hindu friends (i hope not), or she is just making this up to scare the questioner from these two religions.

“ O Mankind! Most certainly, it is We (God almighty) who have Created you all from a single (pair) of a male and a female. And it is we who have made you into nations and tribes, that ye may recognise each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily, the noblest of you in the sight of Allah is (He who is) the most righteous of you. „
—(Qur'an 49:13)

Muhammad's (May peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) statements on racism is seen in the hadith. According to the hadith by Imam Bukhari, the Prophet (May peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said:
“ All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over a white - except by piety and good action."
—(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 7, Ch. 3)
~~~As you can see, it doesnt matter what race you are, the only way you are considered better in the eyes of Allah is by how religiously committed you are.

Peace dude.
Reply

Zafran
07-23-2011, 12:58 AM
salaam

If you look at the last poster on the Yahoo QA

Don't look for answers on Islam on yahoo answers lol.. There is no racism in Islam at all, the people who will have any problems with you are going to be cultural jahiliya (ignorance) and has nothing to do with Islamic teachings.
Amen to that

peace
Reply

Woodrow
07-23-2011, 03:35 AM
Originally Posted by Boaz
So it's a sin to read literature? Or am I misinterpreting your message?
Semi misinterpreting. I did not say it was a sin to read them. But I did say it would be a waste of time if we read them with no constructive purpose. As a confession I have a fair size collection of Bibles. Ranging from the Latin Vulgate to Several of the Modern English ones. I have read them for several reasons. However, I would say the most often reason I read them had no relation to religion. I found them to be an excellent study guide to see the development of the English language.
Reply

GuestFellow
07-23-2011, 11:07 AM
Salaam,

I agree that it is best not to go on Yahoo Answers to learn about Islam and Muslims. It is popular there to make negative comments about Muslims and Islam.
Reply

May Ayob
07-23-2011, 11:23 AM
Salaam

What matters is that You are a Muslim , not how people react to your skin color.
It is prohibited in Islam to discriminate anyone for their skin color may it be white,black, yellow orange or whatever.
People who do that are basically just ignorant don't let them affect you, and ask Allah help and guidance
Don't worry, God will take you seriously and that's all that really matters.

Salaam
Reply

alhamdulilaah
07-23-2011, 12:32 PM
asalamu alaikum

sister may i agree with you.
Reply

MustafaMc
07-23-2011, 02:54 PM
I am an American and I am just about as white as you can get. I have always been treated with the utmost respect and felt that I was taken seriously particularly by Muslims from birth. Last year I went on hajj and saw very few other 'white people' again I was treated with respect and conversed amiably with people from all over the world (if they spoke any English).
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Woodrow
07-23-2011, 04:51 PM
I think what some reverts misunderstand as prejudice comes from their experience at Friday Jummah. They do not initially understand that many there are just on a short break from work and are in a rush to get back to their jobs and have no time to socialize after Jummah.
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Ali Mujahidin
07-24-2011, 01:51 AM
:sl:

I am yellow, my skin that is. I have been mistaken for a Japanese, Korean, Mongolian, in fact anything except Chinese which I am. So far I have never felt being discriminated against by born Muslims. Actually, some of them went out of their way to help me learn more about Islam. That Mels person, if he is telling the truth, must have met some misguided people who thought that religion is the property of a particular race. WaLLaHu aklam.
Reply

truthseeker63
07-24-2011, 11:07 AM
I read that the Bohemian Club members go to the Bohemian Grove and have a ritual called the Cremation of Care and make a mock human sacrifice to Moloch Moloch seems to be talked about in the Bible my question is is Moloch talked about in the Quran or the Hadith ?

Moloch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BOHEMIAN GROVE EXPOSED!

The Bohemian Grove, Satanic Rituals and World Leaders
Reply

Woodrow
07-24-2011, 08:44 PM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
I read that the Bohemian Club members go to the Bohemian Grove and have a ritual called the Cremation of Care and make a mock human sacrifice to Moloch Moloch seems to be talked about in the Bible my question is is Moloch talked about in the Quran or the Hadith ?

Moloch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BOHEMIAN GROVE EXPOSED!

The Bohemian Grove, Satanic Rituals and World Leaders
I doubt very much you will find any mention of the Moloch (מלך m-l-k, a Semitic root meaning "king") it was the name given to a pagan god that was worshiped by the people of the Levant , that did not follow Judaism. You will find it mentioned in the Talmud and the OT of the Bible. I can not find it mentioned in the Qur'an nor can think of any reason it would be.
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truthseeker63
07-26-2011, 07:00 AM
When Muslims pray five times a day how long does it take also how long do Muslims pray in the Mosque on Friday how many minutes does each prayer take ?
Reply

cuezed
07-26-2011, 08:27 AM
MashaAllah. The taliban are right here. Would the prophet (pbuh) allow anti Islamic material to remain in his land?
Reply

Tyrion
07-26-2011, 10:03 AM
Originally Posted by cuezed
MashaAllah. The taliban are right here. Would the prophet (pbuh) allow anti Islamic material to remain in his land?
Err, yes? Isn't that kind of what freedom of religion (which Islam supports) implies?
Reply

truthseeker63
07-26-2011, 12:19 PM
Is it a contradiction to say Jesus Christ was all knowing and limited in knowledge and not all knowing at the sametime and Immortal and Mortal God and man at the sametime also the Christians say God can do anything but I have read both the Bible and the Quran they both seem to say that God can do anything but God does not do unGodly things like dying lying or forgetting things sleeping or failing in his promises ?

Allah! There is no deity save Him, the Alive, the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtakes Him. Unto Him belongs whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him save by His leave? He knows that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge save what He will. His throne includes the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary from preserving them. He is the Sublime, the Tremendous. (2:255)

Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feeds and is never fed? Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters. (6:14)

[Moses] said, "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord in a record. My Lord neither errs nor forgets." (20:52)

Indeed, Allah does not do injustice, [even] as much as an atom's weight; while if there is a good deed, He multiplies it and gives from Himself a great reward. (4:40)

...Say, "Indeed, Allah does not order immorality". (7:28, part)

[It is] the promise of Allah . Allah does not fail in His promise, but most of the people do not know." (30:6)

Allah - there is no deity except Him. He will surely assemble you for [account on] the Day of Resurrection, about which there is no doubt. Who is more true in statement than Allah? (4:87)

Say: He is Allah, the One! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begets not, nor was He begotten. And there is none comparable unto Him. (112)
Reply

Woodrow
07-26-2011, 02:32 PM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
When Muslims pray five times a day how long does it take also how long do Muslims pray in the Mosque on Friday how many minutes does each prayer take ?
The 5 prayers are Salat. It is not quite the same as the Christian concept of prayer. It is closer to being a worship service or mass. Dua is more like the Christian concept of prayer. As for the 5 Salat the times can vary for each person as some will stay for optional duas as for basic obligatory Salat--Check HERE

Each Salat takes from 10 to 30 minutes typically the average being about 15 minutes if the person does not have to repeat his wadu. For most of us our 5 daily salat add up to only an hour or less total time each day.

Single Duas can be just a few seconds or as long as the person makes them.

A better explanation of Duas

Reply

truthseeker63
07-27-2011, 12:31 AM
Did Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him risk his life or wealth by saying he was a Prophet
also I heard that there was a Pagan Tribe in Arabia offered wealth to Muhammad is this true and he rejected the offer ?

"And (remember) when the disbelievers plotted against you (O Muhammad) to imprison you, or to kill you, or to get you out (from your home, i.e. Makkah); they were plotting and Allah too was planning, and Allah is the Best of the planners." Quran 8:30

Muhammad’s Claim to Prophethood (part 2 of 3): Was He a Liar?

Muhammad
Did Muhammad Claim Prophethood For Material Gains?




Did Muhammad Claim Prophethood For Material Gains?





Did the prophet Muhammad make Islam for Power and Money?





Sami Zaatari






Prophet Muhammads Intention_
Reply

Starrynight
07-27-2011, 05:10 AM
Silly question, but what is the difference between a Salat and a Dua?
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Woodrow
07-27-2011, 06:00 AM
Originally Posted by Starrynight
Silly question, but what is the difference between a Salat and a Dua?
:wa:

What makes the answer difficult to understand is both are translated into English as Prayer. But neither is what is the non-Muslim concept of prayer. Dua comes the closest while salat comes to be more similar to a full worship service.

SALAT: The obligatory Muslim contact prayers held five times daily, one of the five pillars of Islam

DUA: Is a supplication or a calling out to Allaah(swt). It is informal, may be said in the persons own words and language. It can be said at anytime and it is not one of the pillars of Islam, although desired to be done frequently through out the day.
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Starrynight
07-27-2011, 01:14 PM
Oh ok. So for a duas are you supposed to thank God or ask him for guidance or what?
Thank you!
Reply

Woodrow
07-27-2011, 01:38 PM
Originally Posted by Starrynight
Oh ok. So for a duas are you supposed to thank God or ask him for guidance or what?
Thank you!
All of our thoughts actions and words can be Duas. A Dua is the the asking for blessings, giving thanks, giving praise, acknowledging the glory of Allaah(swt), doing to please Allah(swt). A Dua can be as simple as saying Alhamdilullah, or the asking to help us through a great trial. Duas come from our heart and our way of acknowledging our need for Allaah(swt).

Go HERE for some common Duas Also remember no list of duas is complete, the best Duas come from our own words and should not be used just for time of need. We use them to also show our love.
Reply

truthseeker63
07-29-2011, 09:40 AM
In Islam I have read in Books that say that there are different levels in Heaven Paradise Jannah my question are the different levels like the different levels here on Earth we have different Classes People who are Poor Middle Class and People who are Rich or Wealthy we have different levels here on Earth since Heaven in Islam is physical as well as spiritual my question is do people in the different levels get different rewards thank you very much for your answers ?

1- Heaven in Islam:

I was told by a Muslim scholar and minister at the Mosque that Allah Almighty created Heaven with 500 levels. The highest level will have the Prophets, the Martyrs and the most righteous, loving and pious believers the world ever had. The lowest level of paradise will be for those who barely made it to Heaven. The portion each person will have in the lowest level will be five times bigger than the size of the planet earth.

The following Hadith (Saying of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him) further prove that Heaven has multiple levels in it:

Abdullah b. Mas'ud reported that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: "I know the last of the inhabitants of Fire to be taken out therefrom, and the last of the inhabitants of Paradise to enter it. A man will come out of the Fire crawling. Then Allah, the Blessed and Exalted will say to him: Go and enter Paradise. So he would come to it and it would appear to him as if it were full. He would go back and say: O my Lord! I found it full. Allah, the Blessed and Exalted, would say to him: Go and enter Paradise. He would come and perceive as if it were full. He would return and say: O my Lord! I found it full. Allah would say to him: Go and enter Paradise, for there is for you the like of the world and ten times like it, or for you is ten times the like of this world. He (the narrator) said. He (that man) would say: Art Thou making a fun of me? or Art Thou laughing at me. though Thou art the King? He (the narrator) said: I saw the Messenger of Allah laugh till his front teeth were visible. And it was said: That would be the lowest rank among the inhabitants of Paradise.(Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Faith (Kitab Al-Iman), Book 001, Number 0359)"


All people from the highest to the lowest levels will be able to communicate with each others. However, no one will be able to live or enjoy the pleasure of the higher levels than what he already has. He can go to the lower levels, but he can't go to the higher ones:

"They will recline (with ease) On Thrones (of dignity) Arranged in ranks; And We shall join them To Companions, with beautiful Big and lustrous eyes. And those who believe And whose families follow Them in Faith -- to them Shall We join their families: Nor shall We deprive them (Of the fruit) of aught Of their works: (Yet) is each individual In pledge for his deeds. (The Noble Quran, 52:20-21)"

Even though the winners of Paradise will be "arranged in ranks", as I mentioned above with the 500 different levels of Paradise, but they will still be joined with their families and loved ones from the Companions.

So, let's say we have a mother and a son. The mother was admitted to level 256, and the son was admitted to level 310. Both the mother and the son can still see each others, but she won't be able to enjoy the things her son is enjoying, nor will he be able to share them with her.

It is similar to us here on earth, where if we have two friends, one is a multi millionaire and the other is a poor fellow. Both men can still be friends and go out together, but the millionaire guy most probably eats better food, drives a better car, lives in a much fancier and bigger house, lives in a much better and more expensive and fancier neighborhood, wears better and more expensive cloths, wears better smelling perfumes, vacations to better and more fun places and expensive places, etc....

http://www.answering-christianity.com/heaven_hell.htm
Reply

Abz2000
07-31-2011, 04:48 AM
the quran does mention baal so that's a reason why it would be if it were something which specifically angered God quite a lot more than other idol worship, however- these bohemian lot worship a whole load of other things so moloch is just one - aj got in and recorded the cremation of care ceremony - some freaky stuff,
however back to the topic - the quran in one brush mentions that idolators worship satan

(The Pagans), leaving Him, call but upon female deities: but in reality they call but upon satan the persistent rebel!
4:117

there's a picture there of both reagan and nixon sitting on both sides of harvey hancock like featured guests at the grove - before they became presidents.

since you're looking into this kind of informatio - check out my new world order page at abz2000 dotcom which has a lot of info about satanism - also check the babylon page.
Reply

truthseeker63
08-01-2011, 03:54 AM
I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 years ago did not divide people by skin color or race they divided people by economic class or religion or language.
http://www.pbs.org/race/001_WhatIsRace/001_00-home.htm
Reply

Grace Seeker
08-02-2011, 02:55 PM
Indeed race based on skin color already is seen as a myth in the scientific community. Nearly 10 years ago Discover magazine publish an issue dedicated to the subject of race and the articles in it made clear that the whole concept of race as it exists in popular culture is untenable. One cannot make predictions with regard to any of the things we would like to predict about a person's health, structural anatomy, susceptiblity to disease, intelligence, emotional state, or anything else based purely on skin color. Even those things that we commonly tie to race really aren't. For instance sickle cell anemia is linked to blacks in the US. But while there is a higher incidence of this among American blacks, it is a genetic trait that is found only in people from certain malaria prone zones of the world. It is not shared by all blacks. Additionally, there are also non-blacks who are indigenous to some of these malaria prone zones of the world who also are at increased risk for the same disease. The same story repeats itself over and over again with virtually everything that might be associated with this race or that race. Using skin color to group people does not produce homogenous groups, the only thing that would be able to be said about all within the group is the tautological statement that they have the same skin color. One would do just as well to group people by whether their navel was an "inny" or "outy".
Reply

truthseeker63
08-03-2011, 03:45 PM
Can a Muslim still like Dogs I know Muslims are not allowed to keep Dogs as pets but speaking for myself there are many kinds of Animals that are wild that I would not want as a pet but I still like I like wild Animals but I don't think it is right to keep them in Zoos I like Cats but I would never have a Cat as a pet or any kind of Animal in my home but I still love Animals they were created by God too right the reason Im asking this is because some Non Muslims seem to think that Muslims dislike or even hate Dogs my understanding is that Muslims can use Dogs for Farming Hunting and as a Guard Dog my favorite kind of Dog is a German Shepherd Dog but I would never have one for a pet ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Shepherd_Dog
Reply

truthseeker63
08-03-2011, 03:59 PM
In my opinion the American Presidents and most U.S. Politicians are Puppets of Zionism if you don't mind I would like to bring this fact up. I used to admire and respect America's Presidents just a few years ago I thought Obama Bill Clinton both Bushes Reagan and or Nixon were great leaders but in my opinion every President of America has been a Puppet since FDR and Truman would anyone here agree with me ?

How It All Began


Truman and Israel


By HARRY CLARK

Harry Clark: Truman and Israel
Reply

Abz2000
08-03-2011, 10:01 PM
apparently the prophet (pbuh) hated dogs, he scolded aisha (ra) for hiding a puppy, (they're dirty animals),
but the quran (chapter 18) does mention the youths in the cave who had a dog of their own,
and i had two when i was little, i dunno, when any of my neighbours get on the lift with one i pat it on the head but make sure they know not to try licking my clothes and they began to understand that i've started to pray etc and respect that.
you can't help liking something, as far as i'm aware - the only requirement is that you stay within limits and know that you're unclean once they lick your clothes.
there was a furious uproar in the newspapers about muslim cabbies wouldn't allow dogs into their cars, when one woman who loved her dog asked why, she was simply told - because it's dirty.
i could just imagine the precious looks on her face ;D
Reply

Who Am I?
08-03-2011, 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by abz2000
apparently the prophet (pbuh) hated dogs, he scolded aisha (ra) for hiding a puppy, (they're dirty animals),
but the quran (chapter 18) does mention the youths in the cave who had a dog of their own,
and i had two when i was little, i dunno, when any of my neighbours get on the lift with one i pat it on the head but make sure they know not to try licking my clothes and they began to understand that i've started to pray etc and respect that.
you can't help liking something, as far as i'm aware - the only requirement is that you stay within limits and know that you're unclean once they lick your clothes.
there was a furious uproar in the newspapers about muslim cabbies wouldn't allow dogs into their cars, when one woman who loved her dog asked why, she was simply told - because it's dirty.
i could just imagine the precious looks on her face ;D
That's the main reason that Surah al-kafh is one of my favorite surahs in the Qur'an. The number of the people of the cave changes throughout the surah, yet the dog is always mentioned. That shows me that Allah doesn't hate dogs, and neither should we.

If I see a dog, I must greet it. That is something I do and have always done. I have no fear of dogs like some Muslims I know. I've faced down a snarling Doberman as a 10 year old kid (long before Islam, of course) and had it licking my hand and playing with me within minutes. I would do the same today as a Muslim. You just have to know how to deal with dogs.

So yes, I am Muslim and I love dogs, and will always love dogs. That will never change. I know that some of you will not like that answer, but that is the honest truth. It gave me problems for a while, but I have reconciled it with my Lord.
Reply

Ramadhan
08-04-2011, 02:20 AM
Originally Posted by King of Nines
. The number of the people of the cave changes throughout the surah, yet the dog is always mentioned.
What do you mean by "the number of the people of the cave changes throughout the surah?"
Could you please clarify?

CMIIW, but from the story of the people of the cave, it is clear that the dog serves as a guard dog.

Originally Posted by King of Nines
. That shows me that Allah doesn't hate dogs, and neither should we.
Allah SWT also does not hate pig, but He command us not to eat it.
By the way, Rasulullah SAW never told us to hate dogs, so yes, we should not hate dogs.

Allah SWT also commands in the Qur'an to hear and obey Rasulullah SAW, and Allah SWT posses unlimited wisdom, and He knows what is best for us, as He also says in the Qur'an: what is seemingly good for us may not be so, and what is not seemingly good for us may actually is best for us.

From shahih hadith, it is clear that the saliva of dogs is impure, and as muslim, we must accept that, otherwise we might as well say that Rasulullah SAW was wrong, and by extension, Allah SWT is wrong.
Astaghfirullah.
Reply

sister herb
08-04-2011, 05:06 AM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
I like wild Animals but I don't think it is right to keep them in Zoos
Salam alaykum;

have you noticed that keeping wild animals in Zoos might help to save and later also increase they amount in nature as many of they natural environments have destroyed or are in danger to become destroying? These kind of cases Zoos can be seen as part of environmental protection.

About dogs; I too still like dogs (even right now I haven´t any) but kind of "dog or not dog"- discussions here usually ends by similar ways: part support and part don´t - it is never ending discussion.
Reply

Ramadhan
08-04-2011, 05:48 AM
Originally Posted by abz2000
apparently the prophet (pbuh) hated dogs, he scolded aisha (ra) for hiding a puppy, (they're dirty animals),
Please give us ahadeeth reference where it showed that Rasulullah SAW hated dogs.

One of the most serious crimes is to falsely attribute something to prophet SAW.
Reply

May Ayob
08-04-2011, 12:49 PM
Salaam
Ramadan Mubarak

Dogs are creatures of God, Pigs are also creatures of God. Both differ of course.
What brother King of Nines said regarding the Dogs is quite normal and I'm not against what he said. I grew up in a country that we just don;t know how to be familiar with a dog, it's hard I really fear them , Do I hate them ? NO! but I still fear them is it because I don't trust them or think they are evil or dirty? No, but I just never knew how to pet a dog or any kind of other animal.
You shouldn't hate anything God has created, Just keep the boundaries of your Lord and as Ghandi said: A good man is a friend of all living creatures. So treat them kindly by the way there is a very good hadeeth about this I'd be honored to share:

The Prophet said, "A man saw a dog eating mud from (the severity of) thirst. So, that man took a shoe (and filled it) with water and kept on pouring the water for the dog till it quenched its thirst. So Allah approved of his deed and made him to enter Paradise."

Allah's Apostle said, "A prostitute was forgiven by Allah, because, passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, Allah forgave her because of that."

They can be a door to Paradise, Also as sister Harb said it is an endless discussion

Salaam
Reply

May Ayob
08-04-2011, 01:07 PM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
In Islam I have read in Books that say that there are different levels in Heaven Paradise Jannah my question are the different levels like the different levels here on Earth we have different Classes People who are Poor Middle Class and People who are Rich or Wealthy we have different levels here on Earth since Heaven in Islam is physical as well as spiritual my question is do people in the different levels get different rewards thank you very much for your answers
Salaam; Sorry for the Late reply
First Off , NO!!!! In regards to "Classes" or Casteism! And NO! in regards to Physical attributes or any other!


Different level get different rewards? No, The reward is the same, but as said before there is a hadeeth that says : God will multiply the reward for whomever He wills but with no discrimination to anyone:this is a good outline for it:

Trying to do the right thing and failing: +1
Trying to do the right thing and succeeding: +10 to +700, depending on the circumstances
Wanting to do the wrong thing and abstaining: +1
Trying and succeeding at doing the wrong thing: -1
(I got this from another thread it was posted by another member)
The ranks in Heaven is according to how much one strives in the Cause of God ( Good deeds) , One who will recieve the highest rank is because how much good they did in this world, No other ( it's not because of wealth, beauty or any other materialistic means) also How sincere and devoted they were in worshipping God.
So, a person who is highly devoted in Worshipping Allah in this world who is poor or suffering, will insha'Allah good willing be in the highest ranks of Paradise. Heaven and Hell will be destined to people according to their deeds and intentions and God's Accountance regardless of other differences we recognize in this world,There wont be any discrimination in Paradise because the Only thing that gets people to Paradise is really God's Mercy in the bottom line

I'm often wrong, If my answer was not satisfying the please accept my apologies.
I hope you better replies

Salaam
Reply

Who Am I?
08-04-2011, 03:53 PM
From the Abudullah Yusuf Ali translation of the Qur'an, Surah 18, aya 22:

Some say that there were three, the dog being the fourth among them; others say that there were five, the dog being the sixth, doubtfully guessing at the unknown. Yet others say they were seven, the dog being the eighth.
That's what I mean by the number of people changes, yet the dog is always counted among them. Everyone remembers the dog. That shows me that the dog is always respected and counted among the companions.

As sister May Ayob said, I think this is more of a cultural argument than a religious one. I'm used to being around dogs: I love them and have no fear of them. A lot of people here are the opposite. They do not like dogs and fear them. Does that make me better than them? No, it doesn't. It just means I was raised in a different environment with a different attitude about dogs.

Before I was Muslim, I used to eat pork and thought nothing of it. Now I don't eat it anymore out of respect for my new way of life. But if I had to eat pork, I could, and I wouldn't think anything of it. Again, that's a cultural thing. I grew up eating pork so to me it's no big deal. It doesn't make me any better than anyone else here.

I'm just a weird blend of Western and Eastern culture now...
Reply

Abz2000
08-04-2011, 09:10 PM
Originally Posted by Ramadhan

Please give us ahadeeth reference where it showed that Rasulullah SAW hated dogs.

One of the most serious crimes is to falsely attribute something to prophet SAW.
peace brother - another serious crime is to just jump at it without allowing someone who made a genuine comment explain it, without implying that they are making a false attribution:

From Muslim #5248
Maimuna reported that one morning Allah’s Messenger was silent with grief. Maimuna said: Allah’s Messenger, I find a change in your mood today. Allah’s Messenger said: Gabriel had promised me that he would meet me tonight, but he did not meet me. By Allah, he never broke his promises, and Allah’s Messenger spent the day in this sad mood. Then it occurred to him that there had been a puppy under their cot. He commanded and it was turned out. He then took some water in his hand and sprinkled it at that place. When it was evening Gabriel met him and he said to him: You promised me that you would meet me the previous night. He said: Yes, but we do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture. Then on that very morning he commanded the killing of the dogs until he announced that the dog kept for the orchards should also be killed, but he spared the dog meant for the protection of extensive fields or big gardens.
From Muslim #Number 055
Ibn Mughaffal reported: The Messenger of Allah ordered killing of the dogs, and then said: What about them, i. e. about other dogs? and then granted concession (to keep) the dog for hunting and the dog for (the security) of the herd, and said: When the dog licks the utensil, wash it seven times, and rub it with earth the eighth time.

From Muslim #3814
Ibn Mughaffal reported: Allah's messenger ordered the killing of dogs and then said, "what is the trouble with them (the people of Medina? How dogs are nuisances to them (the citizens of Medina)? He then permitted keeping of dogs for hunting and (the protection of) herds. ...[and for] for the protection of cultivated land.

and regarding the brother who made the comment on pigs, please research the Hadith regarding Jesus (pbuh) and the killing of pigs, (and according to the bible he killed 2000 of them 2000 years ago - maybe a sign) - i don't know if it meant literally pigs - or corrupt law enforcement officers - who are also referred to as pigs in slang - but yes - it does say he will slay the pigs. angry birds is a good one where all the angry birds go on suicide missions to kill all the pigs ;D.
and before you go crazy at me for saying that - it was a joke, and i watched armageddon and thought bruce willis was a hero when he blew himself up to save the people :D.

Reply

Who Am I?
08-04-2011, 10:51 PM
:sl:

The wrong guy died in Armageddon. They should have killed Ben Affleck.

That's all I'm saying.
Reply

Karl
08-05-2011, 12:37 AM
Islam is against race discrimination, so hateing a dog for being a dog is prejudice and discrimination. If the dog is clean it cannot be dirty. All this unclean prejudice and discrimination etc was a condition of the Jews that Jesus (PBUH) was trying to get rid of.
I think things can be taken out of context, mangey dogs that skulk around the camps and hovels are probably the ones not to come into the house. But I would rather have a fine clean dog in the house than a dirty snotty nosed child.
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Karl
08-05-2011, 12:54 AM
No race is not a myth. Scientists are studying the different speices of homonids now, they have discovered hybrids eg Cro magnon cross Neanderthal cross Homo sapian sapian. Modern DNA gene scanning can give precise information about a persons makeup. So there are many speices of humans.
Of course the Marxists will disagree and say we are all the same blah blah.
Reply

Grace Seeker
08-05-2011, 09:07 AM
Karl, I believe you confuse the concept of race and species. Though in the past there were different species of our genus, today there is only one species of human being.

No one is arguing that we are all the same, but the differences that exist between people are not a sufficiently useful tool to classify people into races. The most common classification device, skin color, does not correlate well with other noted markers. And when we go beneath the skin, to group people based on DNA differences would to give us some 6 billion different races of one individual each.
Reply

Ramadhan
08-05-2011, 10:09 AM
:sl:

Yes, I am aware of such ahadeeth, but please tell me which part it says that Rasulullah "hated" dogs? You said "apparently prophet Muhammad hate dogs".

Also, as far as I am aware, the killing of dogs apply to rabid dogs only, and we know that today rabid dogs carry rabies.

Here's good explanation on such hadiths that deal with dogs: http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/is...illing_of_dogs and http://www.shafiifiqh.com/?p=1668

Brother, do you really think Rasulullah SAW was wrong when he issued injunctions concerning dogs?

Originally Posted by abz2000
peace brother - another serious crime is to just jump at it without allowing someone who made a genuine comment explain it, without implying that they are making a false attribution:

From Muslim #5248
Maimuna reported that one morning Allah’s Messenger was silent with grief. Maimuna said: Allah’s Messenger, I find a change in your mood today. Allah’s Messenger said: Gabriel had promised me that he would meet me tonight, but he did not meet me. By Allah, he never broke his promises, and Allah’s Messenger spent the day in this sad mood. Then it occurred to him that there had been a puppy under their cot. He commanded and it was turned out. He then took some water in his hand and sprinkled it at that place. When it was evening Gabriel met him and he said to him: You promised me that you would meet me the previous night. He said: Yes, but we do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture. Then on that very morning he commanded the killing of the dogs until he announced that the dog kept for the orchards should also be killed, but he spared the dog meant for the protection of extensive fields or big gardens.
From Muslim #Number 055
Ibn Mughaffal reported: The Messenger of Allah ordered killing of the dogs, and then said: What about them, i. e. about other dogs? and then granted concession (to keep) the dog for hunting and the dog for (the security) of the herd, and said: When the dog licks the utensil, wash it seven times, and rub it with earth the eighth time.

From Muslim #3814
Ibn Mughaffal reported: Allah's messenger ordered the killing of dogs and then said, "what is the trouble with them (the people of Medina? How dogs are nuisances to them (the citizens of Medina)? He then permitted keeping of dogs for hunting and (the protection of) herds. ...[and for] for the protection of cultivated land.

and regarding the brother who made the comment on pigs, please research the Hadith regarding Jesus (pbuh) and the killing of pigs, (and according to the bible he killed 2000 of them 2000 years ago - maybe a sign) - i don't know if it meant literally pigs - or corrupt law enforcement officers - who are also referred to as pigs in slang - but yes - it does say he will slay the pigs. angry birds is a good one where all the angry birds go on suicide missions to kill all the pigs .
and before you go crazy at me for saying that - it was a joke, and i watched armageddon and thought bruce willis was a hero when he blew himself up to save the people .
Reply

MartyrX
08-05-2011, 07:44 PM
From my understanding it's the saliva that is unclean and causes problems. Especially with prayer and such. I've had dogs my whole life, I still have a dog. Some people don't like it, but he's a great dog that was with me during rough times. And he's been far more loyal than most people I have met in my life.
Reply

Abz2000
08-05-2011, 08:51 PM
Originally Posted by Ramadhan
Yes, I am aware of such ahadeeth, but please tell me which part it says that Rasulullah "hated" dogs? You said "apparently prophet Muhammad hate dogs".

Also, as far as I am aware, the killing of dogs apply to rabid dogs only, and we know that today rabid dogs carry rabies.

Here's good explanation on such hadiths that deal with dogs:

Brother, do you really think Rasulullah SAW was wrong when he issued injunctions concerning dogs?
i don't think the messenger of God (may peace be upon him) was wrong, and i didn't say he was, all i said was that he hated them, which is i will make it clear - my own opinion - judging form from the hadith that he ordered them to be killed after he found that angels don't enter the house with dogs, if he liked them, he would have just made sure none came into his house, and regarding your comment on rabid dogs, it was also the dogs kept for the orchards, which i assume would not be rabid, but just because the Messenger (pbuh) personally disliked garlic, he told us to continue to eat it if we pleased, that was different, but the fact that angels don't enter a house with dogs does imply that there is something impure about them, don't get me wrong, i like certain dogs myself, but won't let them try to lick me, i even stroke them, i used to grab my cousin's rottweiler by the throat, throw it on the floor and let it gnaw away at my hand when playing with it, now i wouldn't.
and i know that some dogs are very loyal to their owner as was the dog from surah kahf. but there are many things which were allowed before -prophet yusuf's parents prostrated themselves to him - that doesn't in any way mean that muslims are allowed to prostrate to any human being. Prophet Sulaiman had images of lions etc built as display ornaments, there could have been an exception as moses (pbuh) forbade it, so did the Prophet Muhammad.

also despite the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) making such an order - he did say that a ***** woman from the Children of Israel was forgiven for feeding water to a thirsty dog - from the description, it would be easy to assume that it was a rabid dog and not a domestic one, here he is showing the benefits of a kind heart and a considerate person, but it didn't mean he would allow them to prevent the revelation of God come to the people by defiling the visiting place.

quite a complicated issue - one would have to take the time to think, yet it would be good for us to be able to present relevant information which contributes to the topic without attacking each other.

but thanks to your pointed question - i will yield and admit that it is my own opinion taken from the texts,
any good is from Almighty God's guidance
any evil is from the misguidance of Satan,
peace
Reply

Who Am I?
08-05-2011, 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by JeffX
From my understanding it's the saliva that is unclean and causes problems. Especially with prayer and such. I've had dogs my whole life, I still have a dog. Some people don't like it, but he's a great dog that was with me during rough times. And he's been far more loyal than most people I have met in my life.
My dogs were there for me before Islam when no one else was, and they will be there after Islam when no one else will be.

I thought the Messenger (saws) had dogs himself, or am I wrong?
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Abz2000
08-05-2011, 10:33 PM
firstly - the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was what would be considered amongst the Arabs as a "white man"
and Bilal (ra) was what would be considered amongst the Arabs as a "black man"
Suhaib ar-Rumi was a roman and therefore "extra-white"
then you had everything in between.

truthseeker man! you are a truthseeker - i can't believe how an obscure poster got you down!

personally - i show extra reverence and have some inward magnetic pull towards converts - don't ask me why but it's possibly because i feel that they are more open minded and have taken the decision to seek the truth and accept it.

i don't always get too conversational with all types of "already Muslims" because many (NOT ALL) of them just follow it without knowing why it's better or the truth or makes sense, they just follow it because it was the religion of their forefathers, some of them even get offended if you bring up certain points to prove how it makes sense, as if you're trying to sway their faith or something!
if you ask them why they follow it rather than another specific faith - they get stuck and give you answers that wouldn't hold - and would definitely make an interested prospective Muslim think twice!

but with the reverts - it's a totally different ball game - they can tell you a million different reasons and can debate with many others simply because they have evaluated all points before making the decision to accept.
yes - you do get oafs on cnn or cbs who say they were seeking which religion fitted their likes and dislikes, conveniences etc (as if it was buying something at a supermarket) and then chose a certain one because it fitted their desires,
what a joke! why go out seeking to be bound by something if it's not the truth?!
i remember asking one (intellectual type with glasses and a lawyer/doctor like frown) white guy in his late forties in a mosque why he accepted Islam, and he said something so simple yet profound that will stay with me forever: "because it's the truth" he said it in such a matter of fact way that i was grinning from ear to ear.

and if you let "what older muslim's might think of me" get to you - you sincerely need to study more and seek the approval of the shepherd not that of the sheep.
or you'll develop some inferiority complex that will leave you insecure.

54. O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things.
55. Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).
56. As to those who turn (for friendship) to Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- it is the fellowship of Allah that must certainly triumph.
57. O ye who believe! take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport,- whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye Allah, if ye have faith (indeed).
58. When ye proclaim your call to prayer they take it (but) as mockery and sport; that is because they are a people without understanding.
Quran 5:54

peace
Reply

Futuwwa
08-06-2011, 12:26 AM
No, race is not a myth.

A race is a sub-population within a species whose members have many of a certain set of characteristics specific to that race. These characteristics become common through inbreeding mostly, and to a lesser degree through microevolution. That's what race is, nothing less nor more. It's a matter of classification, not objective fact, but it is absurd to claim that the concept is invalid in itself. Nobody contests the validity of the concept when it comes to animals, so why make an exception out of political correctness?

On the other hand, mixed-race is something of a contradiction. Since race is a specific combination of traits (and the genes that cause them), it's fallacious to claim partial "belonging" to a race simply due to having part of those characteristics. A person whose parents are pure-breeds from different races simply belongs to no race at all, being unique and unclassifiable. Due to the random nature of how genes mix in breeding, two "mixed-race" kids can be very different genetically, even if they are siblings. Much more different than pure-breed siblings would be from each other.

-Herr Futuwwa Der Ras-Doktor :p
Reply

Karl
08-06-2011, 12:43 AM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Karl, I believe you confuse the concept of race and species. Though in the past there were different species of our genus, today there is only one species of human being.

No one is arguing that we are all the same, but the differences that exist between people are not a sufficiently useful tool to classify people into races. The most common classification device, skin color, does not correlate well with other noted markers. And when we go beneath the skin, to group people based on DNA differences would to give us some 6 billion different races of one individual each.
Sorry I don't believe in your hypothesis, I believe in many different kinds of homonids not one. Not to mention all the hybrids. Your science is out of date. There is no need to get political as truth is beyond politics. A little Pygmy From the Congo cannot be the same species as a big Norseman, you would have to be insane to believe they are the same species.
Reply

Futuwwa
08-06-2011, 12:46 AM
If that little Pygmy and that big Norseman can breed and produce fertile offspring, they belong by definition to the same species. And as of yet, no two races have been found out to be incapable of producing fertile offspring together.
Reply

Abz2000
08-06-2011, 12:49 AM
yes, though i thought kennedy was changing the people's perceptions of right and wrong fast, but he had to go huh.......
.....can't have people putting out good ideas now can we?
i mean - "we" serve the people - so it's our job to keep them naked in public and barbaric, on intoxicating liquids and other substances,
hey - even those people waking up is a threat to our tyranny over their minds, actually - it's the "central global menace" that "threatens our global preponderance".

watch?v=Ttv6n7PFniY

that's the man obama (the man who got a nobel peace prize for doing nothing - and now is bankrupting the global economy through more wars than bush)takes his inspiration from.

and regarding the "elections", why are they constantly pushing to turn it all digital?

watch?v=YcxGGnmRQAs


also check out the featured video on my yt channel : youtube / user / abz2000123

tell me they weren't pacifying the would be jolted awake muslims by claiming it wasn't a war against Islam from the start:

Sir Campbell Bannerman, [Prime Minister of Britain (1905-08)]
“ There are people who control spacious territories teeming with manifest and hidden resources. They dominate the intersections of world routes. Their lands were the cradles of human civilizations and religions. These people have one faith, one language, one history and the same aspirations. No natural barriers can isolate these people from one another ... if, per chance, this nation were to be unified into one state, it would then take the fate of the world into its hands and would separate Europe from the rest of the world. Taking these considerations seriously, a foreign body should be planted in the heart of this nation to prevent the convergence of its wings in such a way that it could exhaust its powers in never-ending wars. It could also serve as a springboard for the West to gain its coveted objects.” - 1902

Lord Zetland [March 24, 1940, British Secretary of State for the colonial India]
“[T]he call of Islam is one which transcends the bounds of country. It may have lost some force as a result of the abolition of Caliphate by Mustafa Kamal Pasha, but it still has a very considerable appeal as witness for example Jinnah’s insistence on our giving undertaking that Indian troops should never be employed against any Muslim state, and the solicitude which he has constantly expressed for the Arabs of Palestine.”


President Bush
“The militants believe that controlling one country will rally the Muslim masses, enabling them to overthrow all moderate governments in the region, and establish a radical Islamic empire that spans from Spain to Indonesia"
“The murderous ideology of the Islamic radicals is the great challenge of our new century. Yet, in many ways, this fight resembles the struggle against communism in the last century."


**** Cheney [Vice President, Speech in Sydney, Australia February 2007]

" ...And it is they, the terrorists, who have ambitions of empire. Their goal in the broader Middle East is to seize control of a country, so they have a base from which they can launch attacks against governments that refuse to meet their demands. Their ultimate aim -- and one they boldly proclaim -- is to establish a caliphate covering a region from Spain, across North Africa, through the Middle East and South Asia, all the way to Indonesia. And it wouldn't stop there.
...The war on terror is more than a contest of arms, and more than a test of will. It is a battle of ideas...."


and we know who's "murderous" illegal wars have killed over two million people in the last two decades.
i don't think obl could even dream of that - not that i believe he was the mastermind behind 9/11

peace,
Reply

Abz2000
08-06-2011, 01:07 AM
put it this way: that dude doesn't even know how many states there are in the us, he claims he visited 57 of them with 1 left to go - and that's without alaska and hawaii.
the best thing he ever did was learn to read of a teleprompter,

notice how he normally looks fleft and right evenly whaen speaking, this time he pulls to the right immediately: watch?v=Jiow64UjuQQ

he even uses the thing when talking to elementary school kids: watch?v=LVpOH4MGPBg

when he loses the lines - this is what happens: watch?v=of61E1FesPU

This is only under 2 minutes of a campaign speech, Imagine if someone made a compilation of lies!!!
watch?v=FqKnVr3I9q8

watch?v=mgTgenwl2aA

the whole thing's a theatre of fraud
watch?v=W_ZL3Vcb0RA
Reply

Abz2000
08-06-2011, 01:32 AM
k o 9's, you normally give great info in your posts, however i see you are very attached to your dogs, and i can wholly understand that,

but the comment: "and they will be there after Islam when no one else will be". make it sounds as if they are more important than your eternal life, your choice, many muslims have dogs but build them a great and cozy kennel in the garden, and if i wanted to keep mine - i would personally do that just to make sure my prayers are witnessed.
- i try to even avoid praying in my bedroom and just pray in my son's room because it feels cleaner - though that's not a requirement.
the choice is yours and no one can push you to believe something you refuse to believe in.
remember - some companions had more than four wives, and had to divorce the extra ones just to stay within the limits of Islam, now - THAT would be a hard choice.
some new Muslim women divorce their husbands even though they love them simply because they develop a stronger love their creator, life is full of trials and tests, some Muslims gave up their lives under torture simply because they refused to say there were other gods besides Almighty God, bilal, and the first ever martyr was not a "terrorist", she was stabbed with a spear by abu Jahl in the private parts because she refused to give up her faith, after reading about all that, i would seriously think of building a large cozy kennel where you can give them a shower and a wii and a flatscreen tv and a laptop and some books and some bones, and let them go out for walks whenever, but allow my house to remain clean, but my advice is of no use if you refuse to think about it, your comment seemed quite tough on yourself and the shakiness of your faith, you won't benefit me or anyone else from taking heed. remember - everything that you give priority to above almighty God becomes an idol which comes between you and the truth.
I'M NOT TELLING YOU TO GET RID OF THEM, JUST BUILD THEM A BIG HOUSE SEPARATE FROM YOUR LIVING AND PRAYING QUARTERS, they can feel stronger than family at times, i know, mine used to follow me all the way to the bazaar when i went to Bangladesh, it used to stare at me when i got on the coach bound for town, and come running to the border of the village when it heard me coming or when i called it's name.
read sister riham's post on "how i became a muslim" - or paste this into the search box:

“There’s no such thing as God!”

That’s what I believed most of my childhood thanks to the teachings of my parents.


it's a heart wrenching story of willingness to sacrifice,
peace
Reply

Karl
08-06-2011, 01:43 AM
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
If that little Pygmy and that big Norseman can breed and produce fertile offspring, they belong by definition to the same species. And as of yet, no two races have been found out to be incapable of producing fertile offspring together.
A lion and a tiger can interbreed does that mean a tiger and a lion is the same species?
Scientists have found hybrids in the plants and animals, slowly new species are emerging from this cross breeding of different species.
Reply

Futuwwa
08-06-2011, 01:57 AM
A lion and a tiger cannot produce fertile offspring. That's why they are different species. Not so pygmies and Norsemen.
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Ramadhan
08-06-2011, 03:01 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by King of Nines
As sister May Ayob said, I think this is more of a cultural argument than a religious one. I'm used to being around dogs: I love them and have no fear of them. A lot of people here are the opposite. They do not like dogs and fear them. Does that make me better than them? No, it doesn't. It just means I was raised in a different environment with a different attitude about dogs.
You are right that we should differentiate what culture is and what deen is.
In short, if it has basis in Qur'an and Sunnah, then it is not culture.

For example: like and dislikes of dogs is certainly culture, because there is nothing in Qur'an and sunnah that says we must like/dislike dogs.
BUT dog's saliva is impure is not culture, because Rasulullah SAW clearly said that it is impure.

Originally Posted by King of Nines
Before I was Muslim, I used to eat pork and thought nothing of it. Now I don't eat it anymore out of respect for my new way of life. But if I had to eat pork, I could, and I wouldn't think anything of it. Again, that's a cultural thing. I grew up eating pork so to me it's no big deal. It doesn't make me any better than anyone else here.
Brother, pork is made impermissible by Allah SWT, as He says more than once in the Qur'an:

O you who have believed, eat from the good things which We have provided for you and be grateful to Allah if it is [indeed] Him that you worship.
He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], there is no sin upon him. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (QS. 2:172-173)

Then eat of what Allah has provided for you [which is] lawful and good. And be grateful for the favor of Allah , if it is [indeed] Him that you worship.
He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit] - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (QS. 16:114-115)

Unlike other religion, such as christianity where you are allowed to pick and choose, Islam is a complete religion, and we must accept it as totality, most especially when it comes to the words of Allah SWT.

Even 'Eesa (pbuh) never ate pork and never abrogated the dietary laws, and only saul of tarsus who later claimed 'Eesa (pbuh) had abrogated mosaic laws.
Reply

Who Am I?
08-06-2011, 04:53 AM
:sl:

Well to be clear, I have avoided pork since taking my shahada. I was merely stating that if I was starving to death and pork was all that was left, I could eat it and not feel guilty about it. I should have been more clear about that, and it's my fault.

I won't deny that I am having a hard time right now with some things in my life. Some of those are related to my faith, and others are unrelated. It is something that I am trying to sort out, both through prayer and therapy. I don't always understand why some things are the way they are in Islam, and that is something I will have to deal with.

Dogs are really a trivial issue right now compared to the other things I am dealing with. But the subject of dogs is one that I am very familiar with, which is why I comment a lot about it. I don't mean to sound arrogant or anything, and if I came across that way, I apologize.
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SFatima
08-06-2011, 09:23 AM
There's a whole lot of more perspective on dogs and pets than just this. Islam doesn't say to hate or dislike dogs, it regulates how one should keep them, in good care, distinguishing how well to take care of OURSELVES around them too, which is only reasonable. Dogs, cats, pets all are lovely creatures, but even cats give diseases and eczema and allergies to people and that doesn't mean that we start hating them, we still are to feed them take care of them if we have them as pets but just maintain a distance for our own good.

Did you know that the pet food industry in US alone is around a 19-30 billion dollar industry every year? By estimates, Americans spend more on dogs than they ever spend on poverty and human beings. Are humans less deserving of care than the dogs are? Ofcorse dogs, like all animals have been given the skills to survive on their own and can manage without being fed all those special dog foods and what not. I'm not saying that people shouldn't take care of pets, its just that we get so engrossed in our pets that we forget humans around us, because well its take more effort to relate to humans than it does to pets, you just give them food, take them out for a walk and they're happy, humans; not so easy. ;p

And if you look at poor countries, in Africa, people survive on less than 2 dollar a week, in drought, disease and misery. Are we spending our money sensibly?

http://www.americanpetproducts.org/p...strytrends.asp
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ardianto
08-06-2011, 02:33 PM
People who support Darwinism believe that human classified by species, like animals. But people who do not support Darwinism believe that human classified by races, because human are not animals.
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Ali Mujahidin
08-06-2011, 07:39 PM
:sl:

The Chinese, from what I have learned, view race more from a cultural view point. So a true Chinese, ie a Han Chinese, is defined as a person who practices the Chinese culture fully. The people living on the borders of China are viewed as barbarians because they do not practice Chinese culture which is considered to be the ultimate culture. When the barbarians on the borders attack and conquer China, they eventually become absorbed by Chinese culture. If they practice Chinese culture fully, then they become Han Chinese, ie true Chinese. Skin color is not the defining factor in China. There are Chinese who are big, dark and hairy like the people of Shantung and they are never considered non-Chinese.
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Mujahideen92
08-07-2011, 03:51 AM
Dogs are fine in Islam but what is wrong is if a dog licks you and then you do prayer with dog saliva on you. And of course of the dog urinates in your house that is another problem. Its why it is best to just not have a dog.
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Karl
08-07-2011, 01:49 PM
Claiming that there is no such thing as race is about as ridiculous as claiming there is no difference between hot and cold and night and day. I am a staunch believer of polygenism, which posits that not only are there races, but these different races are actually different free-standing species of completely separate origin. The doctrine of polygenism, at least for me, qualifies as the most plausable and logical conclusion of all. Today's global populations of hominids, while they might all belong to the same GENUS, are nonetheless different species, subdivided down MUCH further still than "European", "Asian" and "African". There are many species within each geographic block.

There are MANY instances of fertile hybrids. Take for example the canids. Fertile canid hybrids occur between coyotes, wolves, dingoes, jackals and domestic dogs.

You are wrong that Ligers are infertile. For example one was known about in the Munich Hellabrunn Zoo. Fertile hybrids also occurs across many species of mammal, fish and plantlife, everything from Orca to Orchid.

From my good experience, the people who most commonly peddle monogenism are Marxists, cultural-imperialist social-engineers, and those who are simply ashamed that they are miscegenated and feel envious of those of pure race.

A single species of animal should LOOK basically the same, but hominids of the world look PROFOUNDLY different in both proportion and size. Even their maturity rates differ astonishingly. It's more these factors that are the important markers in distinguishing races, rather than the superficiality of skin colour.

If you however wish to continue to peddle your popularist politically correct monogenist lunacy, feel free to continue. Just don't you dare appropriate ME as being one of your species. Abide by that small request and I'll be happy enough.
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Muslom
08-07-2011, 02:30 PM
It's quite dissapointing that such a discussion is in an Islamic board
Bro Karl what's your point? What do you mean they are envious of people "Pure" race, What rubbish are you uttering?
Since when does it matter what race is? If you're a Muslim with all your race theories you're denying that we all came from Adam and Eve One source. Why is race such an issue? We are all the same and we are all equal in the eyes of God Almighty.
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Karl
08-08-2011, 01:27 AM
Yes we are all equal under God, the wrath of God does not discriminate between the evil and the innocent' animals and plants even stars and worlds destroyed.
The Adam and Eve Bible story? I regard that as a metaphorical story. Sorry I cannot believe in that literally. Otherwise we would all be the products of incest and the Jews would not think they are to be given their promised land. You must remember the Bible is centred around the Semites dominion not the entire world. Adam means earth in Hebrew in the Quran Allah creates Man from black clay the Greeks used the word carbon. So that is true we are made of mainly carbon.
This idea that everyone is the same species is as absurd as like saying all the fish in the sea are the same species. I think it is just a United Nations, New World Order agenda.
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Ali Mujahidin
08-08-2011, 01:43 AM
Originally Posted by Karl
The Adam and Eve Bible story
:sl:

Just curious. What is your opinion of the Adam and Eve as stated in the Holy Quran?
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Karl
08-08-2011, 04:46 AM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
:sl:

Just curious. What is your opinion of the Adam and Eve as stated in the Holy Quran?
I consider it metaphorical not literal detailed scientific data. You have to remember the Quran is for the common people not intended to be a science textbook for a super genius. The Quran does not focus on the ancient past but on how to live in the present.
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Ali Mujahidin
08-08-2011, 04:50 AM
Originally Posted by Karl
You have to remember the Quran is for the common people not intended to be a science textbook for a super genius.
:sl:

Am I to understand that you do not consider yourself to be a member of the common people?
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Karl
08-08-2011, 05:30 AM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
:sl:

Am I to understand that you do not consider yourself to be a member of the common people?
I am not a noble so I am a common person. I am a free thinker so I am prone to analyse things deeper than the mob would.
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Muezzin
08-08-2011, 08:17 AM
Hints of elitism in a thread about race.

This will not end well.

Let's stick to the points the original poster made, rather than getting sidetracked.

"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full Knowledge and is well-acquainted (with all things)." (Surah 49, Verse 13).
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Karl
08-08-2011, 11:45 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Hints of elitism in a thread about race.

This will not end well.

Let's stick to the points the original poster made, rather than getting sidetracked.

"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full Knowledge and is well-acquainted (with all things)." (Surah 49, Verse 13).
I suppose there are strengths in races for example a flat faced Mongolian is master of the ice, a tall skinny Somalian is master of the blistering heat, Whites do well in temperate conditions. The only myth is the "Master race". I hope this lowers your paranoia about elitism.
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Futuwwa
08-09-2011, 12:01 AM
Originally Posted by Karl
There are MANY instances of fertile hybrids. Take for example the canids. Fertile canid hybrids occur between coyotes, wolves, dingoes, jackals and domestic dogs.

You are wrong that Ligers are infertile. For example one was known about in the Munich Hellabrunn Zoo. Fertile hybrids also occurs across many species of mammal, fish and plantlife, everything from Orca to Orchid.
[citation needed]
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Futuwwa
08-09-2011, 01:58 AM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full Knowledge and is well-acquainted (with all things)." (Surah 49, Verse 13).
Absolutely, hurray! :statisfie
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Karl
08-09-2011, 12:15 PM
"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other..."

This shouldn't be taken out of context though. "Mankind" in the days when the quran was written only applied to peoples of the immediate area and neighbouring territories. That's what "all mankind" WAS to them. The Hebrews regarded "mankind" in the same way. They had no idea that other species of humans existed across other continents, let alone trying to appropriate them as their own. It's just utterly ludicrous to think the whole PLANET of hominids originated from one pair of Hebrews. I mean, if this ludicrous idea WAS hypothically true then there wouldn't be any such thing as "racism" for a start!!
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Karl
08-09-2011, 12:38 PM
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
[citation needed]
I haven't got time to do all the work for you. If you are interested enough in this subject just google it. There is PLENTY of information on it. Here's just one place for a starting point:

A false killer whale and a bottlenose dolphin mated in captivity and produced a fertile calf.[3] The hybrid offspring has been called a "wholphin"...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_killer_whale
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Ali Mujahidin
08-09-2011, 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by Karl
It's just utterly ludicrous to think the whole PLANET of hominids originated from one pair of Hebrews
:sl:

Please elaborate on your statement so that there will be no misunderstanding about your actual meaning.
Reply

ardianto
08-09-2011, 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
Please elaborate on your statement so that there will be no misunderstanding about your actual meaning.
:sl:

Ask him too, what's he means with "one pair of Hebrew" ?
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Ali Mujahidin
08-09-2011, 04:12 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Ask him too, what's he means with "one pair of Hebrew" ?
:sl:

I am assuming that he means Adam and Eve but I may be wrong. Let's wait for him to clarify, assuming he has not gone M.I.A.
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Muslom
08-09-2011, 05:19 PM
Originally Posted by Karl
I suppose there are strengths in races for example a flat faced Mongolian is master of the ice, a tall skinny Somalian is master of the blistering heat, Whites do well in temperate conditions. The only myth is the "Master race". I hope this lowers your paranoia about elitism
Stop this please, you're actually hurting many people's feelings with your comments and they're not any intelligent than you would think , you're deceiving your self by classifying people into 'species' because we're all human beings and there's a difference. Why do you insult people? what's wrong with being Mongolian or Somalian?? Nothing, The only problems is in the way you percieve things and you're erronous analysis of this world.



Originally Posted by Karl
"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other..."

This shouldn't be taken out of context though. "Mankind" in the days when the quran was written only applied to peoples of the immediate area and neighbouring territories. That's what "all mankind" WAS to them. The Hebrews regarded "mankind" in the same way. They had no idea that other species of humans existed across other continents, let alone trying to appropriate them as their own. It's just utterly ludicrous to think the whole PLANET of hominids originated from one pair of Hebrews. I mean, if this ludicrous idea WAS hypothically true then there wouldn't be any such thing as "racism" for a start!!
This is not correct, first of all you've got to understand that in the Qura'n there is no metaphorical phases.
It's clear we are all created from Adam and Eve, and who said the Quran was revealed to Hebrews?? You get your information from the Bible and the Quran and the Bible are different in explaining facts of history, Give me one verse in the Quran that says people were created from one pair of Hebrews , Where please? What on earth!

Here this a Verse for you:
22. And among His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. Verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge.
The Quran Surah:AR-Rom.

27. See you not that Allâh sends down water (rain) from the sky, and We produce therewith fruits of varying colours, and among the mountains are streaks white and red, of varying colours and (others) very black.28. And of men and Ad*Dawâb (moving living creatures, beasts, etc.), and cattle, in like manner of various colours. It is only those who have knowledge among His slaves that fear Allâh. Verily, Allâh is All*-Mighty, Oft*-Forgiving.
Adam and Eve are not Hebrew, ( Again you probably got that from the Bible) They are the first Humans on earth so they don't belong to any ethnic group the were created from clay.

Peace.
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Muezzin
08-09-2011, 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by Karl
I suppose there are strengths in races for example a flat faced Mongolian is master of the ice, a tall skinny Somalian is master of the blistering heat, Whites do well in temperate conditions. The only myth is the "Master race".
I see the points you're making about different ethnicities in different climates. I don't see the point of the highlighted derogatory comments.

I hope this lowers your paranoia about elitism.
Perhaps if your posts were more tactful, I would be less paranoid.

Originally Posted by Karl
"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other..."

This shouldn't be taken out of context though. "Mankind" in the days when the quran was written only applied to peoples of the immediate area and neighbouring territories.
So that's, what, Arabs, Jews, (both groups are Semites, but whatever), Ethiopians, at least. According to the logic you have used earlier in the thread, Arabs, Jews and Ethiopians would be members of separate species, correct? I'm not sure where you're going with this. You can't seriously be suggesting that the people of the Middle East at the time the Quran was revealed were completely unaware of non-Middle Eastern peoples?

More to the point, surely you're not suggesting that this aspect of the Quran should be ignored due to semantics?
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Karl
08-10-2011, 12:04 AM
I don't know why people are getting so heated about this, people used to believe the world was flat, well that's true if you live in a flat country and your world appears flat. Islam is a religion not a science, it is not wise to take it word for word or your faith will be eroded away by the discoveries of science. You don't want to end up like some mad Christian fundamentalist that thinks God made fossils to test his faith.
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truthseeker63
08-10-2011, 02:40 AM
Homosexuality and Adultery and or People who Steal do all these people get death or get their hand cut off under the Sharia what if they repent and never do it again would it be moral for these kinds of people to just commit suicide since they would die anyway Im not any of these things by the way Im just wondering ?
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Ali Mujahidin
08-10-2011, 02:44 AM
Originally Posted by Karl
Islam is a religion not a science, it is not wise to take it word for word
:sl:

Aah, the plot thickens. Please correct me if I have misunderstood but I gather from your post that you mean people who accept the Holy Quran to be the truth are foolish. Is that what you are saying?
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Karl
08-10-2011, 01:13 PM
Stop this please, you're actually hurting many people's feelings with your comments and they're not any intelligent than you would think , you're deceiving your self by classifying people into 'species' because we're all human beings and there's a difference. Why do you insult people? what's wrong with being Mongolian or Somalian?? Nothing, The only problems is in the way you percieve things and you're erronous analysis of this world.

I'm not saying anything openly offensive, therefore anyone who feels offended should just grow some thicker skin! I'm NOT decieving myself about species. Yes we might be all "humans", but (as far as I'm concerned) nonetheless different species of humans, just as there are also huge numbers of fish species. It's so obvious. My inexorable subscription to polygenism is merely a recognition of DIFFERENCE, rather than an intention of HIERARCHY or RACIAL SUPREMACY. This is NOT what I am about. In fact I oppose it, and I regard my polygenist beliefs as a call for different human species to give each other more respect than they do. A lot of the problem with monogenist thinking is that it creates more intolerance towards different human species who prefer to stay isolationist and don't want a bar of modern Western hegemony. In many ways, monogenist mentality leads to a lot of intolerance because the attitude is saying "hey you are one of our species, therefore the ideas we want to globally enforce must ALSO be good for YOU too." This is the arrogant mentality many monogenists have. Marxists (The United Nations etc) are also monogenists, and this is largely why most of them have a flagrant disregard for racial sovereignty.

Don't let your mind get clouded by politically correct over-sensitivity regarding race. WHY do you get the idea that I had intention to "insult" Mongolians and Somalians??? I just said they are DIFFERENT? I NEVER said there was anything "wrong" with them. I actually feel quite insulted that you would think I MEANT that. DON'T READ THINGS INTO MY STATEMENTS THAT I DON'T EVEN SAY. There was nothing intended to be disparaging about those comments I made. It is a plain scientific fact that many oriental races have "flat" type faces. Look it up, and you will find this description in many common text books!



This is not correct, first of all you've got to understand that in the Qura'n there is no metaphorical phases.

Rubbish. Take for example "Life is a Journey". Literally, life DOESN'T travel. The quran has many metaphores and parables. Take a look here for a starting point:

http://www.harunyahya.com/generalknowledge11.php



It's clear we are all created from Adam and Eve,

I wasn't, not at least from the Adam and Eve of West Asia. I'm not a semite. That doesn't mean to say that I can't be a Muslim though. Every animal capable of sentience and able to comprehend Allah should also be allowed to be a Muslim. I subscribe to the concept that there was an infinite number of Garden of Edens and many Adams. This is the only plausable way I am able to make sense of it. For an introduction to polygenism here's a starting point:

.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygenism

and who said the Quran was revealed to Hebrews?? You get your information from the Bible and the Quran and the Bible are different in explaining facts of history, Give me one verse in the Quran that says people were created from one pair of Hebrews , Where please? What on earth!

Ok let's use "semite" then if that makes you happy. Both Jews and Arabs are semites. Someone else's earlier retort against me, him claiming that Norsemen are the "same species" as pygmies (lol), certainly would, to say the least, offend the pygmies, given that pygmies have declared themelves as separate species from other hominids (they are also polygenists).


22. And among His signsis the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. Verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge.

Still doesn't prove that the heavens and the earth extended beyond the heavens and the earth KNOWN to Muhammed (PBUH) at that time. Remember also that West Asia had a HUGE variety of languages across that whole region, and there was still differences of skin colour as well. Take for example in India, even though they are all dark races there (from a westerner's perspective) the Indians themselves nonetheless have at least 8 or 10 official gradiants of skin colour ranging from "fair" right up to very dark, even though THEIR "fair" is still regarded as dark (or at least coloured) in the West.



I see the points you're making about different ethnicities in different climates. I don't see the point of the highlighted derogatory comments.

Again, they are NOT derogatory. Science books will even make these kind of physical descriptions. I think some of you people are a bit too political correct and racially ultra-sensitive to any comments regarding race. I'm a Germanic race, I am of a big, sturdy combat race. But do you think I'm going to get all pc and racially over-sensitive if you call me a big fat Germanic?? Of course not! My skin is too thick to be offended by such trivial little things.


Perhaps if your posts were more tactful, I would be less paranoid.

Look, I'm no Shakespeare, the English language is definitely not my forte. I try to be about as tactful as I can. I don't think it's being offensive by saying that Orientals are flat faced; and generally, Indians, Australian Aborigines and Somalians are dark and skinny, and generally Germanics are pink coloured combat races (hence why they are BIG).

So that's, what, Arabs, Jews, (both groups are Semites, but whatever), Ethiopians, at least. According to the logic you have used earlier in the thread, Arabs, Jews and Ethiopians would be members of separate species, correct? I'm not sure where you're going with this. You can't seriously be suggesting that the people of the Middle East at the time the Quran was revealed were completely unaware of non-Middle Eastern peoples?

The Adam and Eve story is very ancient and I don't want to go deeply into it, but my guess is that Muhammed (PBUH) didn't want to be too radical on redefining Adam and Eve. Almost certainly by his time they would have knowledge of more races, compared to thousands of years before, but I feel utterly convinced that the quran's perspective of "mankind" was FAR from a literally GLOBAL perspective. I don't know enough about Arabs and Jews and Ethiopians so I wouldn't also like to comment too much on their racial similarities (or dissimilaries). In any case, certainly many Muslims from centuries after the quran was written didn't view things the way you do, otherwise they certainly wouldn't have engaged in the slave trade down in Africa, would they?
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Karl
08-10-2011, 01:25 PM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
:sl:

Aah, the plot thickens. Please correct me if I have misunderstood but I gather from your post that you mean people who accept the Holy Quran to be the truth are foolish. Is that what you are saying?
No I didn't mean that. What I am trying to say is that the quran DOES contain metaphors and parables. Therefore to interpret literally, word for word, it wouldn't be scientifically valid. For example "life is a journey". Any Muslim who thinks that to have a good life they must "travel" would be a bit naive. Life if FIGURATIVELY a journey, not literally a journey. See what I mean?
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truthseeker63
08-11-2011, 09:35 PM
Is Isa the Arabic name for Jesus also is Jesus an English word or name is Christ a English word too for Messiah ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam
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User2024
08-12-2011, 09:53 AM
Yes Isa is the Arabic name for Jesus, not sure about the rest..
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ardianto
08-12-2011, 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
Is Isa the Arabic name for Jesus also is Jesus an English word or name is Christ a English word too for Messiah ?
English = Jesus
Latin = Iesus
Greek = Iesous
Hebrew = Yehosua
Aramaic = Yesua

Christ is originally from Greek word "Christos", means "Anointed One" (or "Messiah" in Hebrew)
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truthseeker63
08-12-2011, 09:52 PM
Next Week I will be meeting an local IMAM about converting to Islam what should I expect ?

Religious conversion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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truthseeker63
08-12-2011, 09:52 PM
Thank You for your answers.
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Dawud_uk
08-12-2011, 10:25 PM
peace be upon those who follow righteous guidance truthseeker,

depends on the masjid and the imam. Some have a lot of knowledge, some are a little more cultural but remember you are looking into islam so don't be put off if he doesnt speak good english or understand your questions.

But usually will just sit you down, ask you whether you accept certain core principles of faith, if you do then invite you to accept islam.
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Perseveranze
08-12-2011, 11:42 PM
Alhamdulillah, about time brother :)
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aadil77
08-12-2011, 11:45 PM
Masha'Allah brother, you've obviously come to a well thought out decision, you've done plenty of research so Alhamdulillah no one can say you rushed into it
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Riana17
08-13-2011, 12:38 AM
Asalam Alaikkum

Subhanallah, what a Ramadan news
May Allah lead you to the right path forever Amen
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Abz2000
08-13-2011, 01:44 AM
May Allah make you a blessing and beacon of light for others, and to think i thought from your posts that you were already Muslim!
peace be to those who follow the guidance!
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Abz2000
08-13-2011, 01:46 AM
Jesus has been mentioned in the Quran by several names..........



* Kalimatullaah meaning "God's Word" (3:45)
* Qawl al-haqq, meaning "sure word", (19:34)
* Ruhun minhu meaning a "a Spirit from Him" (4:171)
* al-Masih meaning "The Messiah" mentioned eleven times (English - Christ).
* Nabi meaning "prophet" mentioned in 29:30
* Rasul meaning "messenger" (4:157; 5:75)
* ibn Maryam, Isa ibn Maryam meaning "son of Mary" or "Jesus son of Mary" mentioned thirty three times.
* Abd Allah, meaning "Servant of God"
* Min al-muqareeabin meaning "among those who are close to God", later explained by the fact of his "ascension" mentioned in the Qur'an 3:45
* Wadjih, meaning "worthy of esteem in this world and the next"
* Mubarak, meaning "blessed" as "a source of benefit for others, probably a bringer of baraka" (19:31).
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Abz2000
08-13-2011, 02:15 AM
i believe the first - homosexuality seems to be implied in the following verse:

16. If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.
17. Allah accepts the repentance of those who do evil in ignorance and repent soon afterwards; to them will Allah turn in mercy: For Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.
18. Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil, until death faces one of them, and he says, "Now have I repented indeed;" nor of those who die rejecting Faith: for them have We prepared a punishment most grievous.
Quran 4:16-18

The second - Adultery (which is MARRIED people admitting or being proven to have committed the act) - the punishment of stoning (or using lead stones from metal pipes with the aid of gunpowder - a practice used even against protesters in western countries in the state of anarchy) is enforceable since they had spouses and could have done the business with them.
This is seen as a grave social crime which cannot be allowed to spread under any circumstance as it can be made appealing in many societies - they call it "cheating" - a light "fun" term.
Ask any real man with dignity what he'd do - law or no law. or ask 100 men and get a democratic vote.

For fornication (unmarried):
2.
The woman and the man guilty of fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes:
Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day:
and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
3. Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.
4. And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;-
5. Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.



Stealing -
38. As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power.
39. But if the thief repents after his crime, and amends his conduct, Allah turneth to him in forgiveness; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
40. Knowest thou not that to Allah (alone) belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth? He punisheth whom He pleaseth, and He forgiveth whom He pleaseth: and Allah hath power over all things.
Quran 5:38-40

however - if you go to Muslim countries which enforce this law - you won't be likely to see many people walking around with no hands - you will however - see shops left totally open at prayer time when everyone's gone to the mosque often with not a guard in sight. I have seen this with my own eyes when i went on Hajj - some shopkeepers would hang a piece of cloth in front of the shop as a sort of "peace of mind" measure.
Most cars don't have alarms either - they often leave the keys in the ignition and go into the shopping centres.
the crime rates are in stark contrast to countries like the us and uk.

Abortion and infanticide is also murder and punishable by death:

8. When the female (infant), buried alive, is questioned -
9. For what crime she was killed;
Quran 81:8-9

178. O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty.
179. In the Law of Equality there is (saving of) Life to you, o ye men of understanding; that ye may restrain yourselves.
Quran 2:178-179

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them:
and power was given him over ALL KINDREDS, AND TONGUES, AND NATIONS. (GLOBAL AGE HUH?)
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9
If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity:
he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.
Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Revelation 13:7-10


and for the haters who support illegal wars - give them this:

1. The Righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away,

none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.

2. He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness.

3. But draw near hither, ye sons of the adulterer and the *****.

4. Against whom do ye sport yourselves?

Against whome make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue?

Are ye not the children of transgression, a seed of falsehood,

5. Enflaming yourselves with idols under every green tree,

Slaying the children in the valleys under the clefts of rocks?

ISAIAH 57 : 1-5

Reply

Abz2000
08-13-2011, 02:41 AM
nah - they came and offered him a bunch of things when they realised their persecution was not helping the cause:

if you are doing this for power - we'll make you our leader (just stop saying idols are fake!)
if you're doing it for wealth - we'll get together and make you the richest man among us
if it's for the attention of the women - we'll betroth you to any of the most beautiful women you choose from among our clan.
if this is sorcery effecting you- we'll pay for the most expensive witchdoctors in the peninsula to relieve you of your malady.

he listened intently - then asked - have you finished?
then began to recite certain verses of the Quran - and the man sent by Quraish got up and left in frustration.

when his uncle Abu Talib was approached by the elders - he came and respectfully asked him if he'd do him a favour and stop reviling the idols
he is reported to have replied:
"O uncle, I am no more capable of stopping this than you are of getting me a piece of fire from the sun, and i will not stop until God makes it successful - or i perish in the effort.
his uncle is reported to have said - go and preach what you believe in - I shall never desert you.

also - when he was approaching the different tribes of Arabia for refuge due to the persecution of the chiefs of Makkah - baiharah, the leader of a powerful tribe called the clan of 'Aamir is reported to have been impressed at how revolutionary and appealing this message was and said: if i were to hace this brave man of Quraish, I could eat up the arabs with him - so he said: ok, we give you refuge and make you our leader - but you must promise to hand over the kingdom to us after you.

he is reported to have said: Verily the Earth is Gods, he gives it to whom he pleases, and the end is for the righteous, (ie - i have no authority to do that).
the man refused to allow such a deal saying: are we to present our throats to the Arabs in your defence, then if God gives you victory, see power go elsewhere than to us?

When they returned to their tribe they mentioned all the events to a wise elderly man of their clan and he is reported to have said: can your mistake be put right? I swear no descendant of Ishmael made such a claim falsely, where did your good judgement go?

Later the people of madinah humbly accepted all the terms - and became victorios over the whole region - with madinah becoming the capital of the entire Arabian peninsula :D

if he was after power or wealth alone or revenge against Quraish - that would have been a great bargain to accept the terms of Banu 'Aamir - especially considering how unbearable the persecution of Quraish was becoming - as an impostor don't care what happens after him.

watch this video - it's quite close:



peace
Reply

Abz2000
08-13-2011, 02:50 AM
And when he was gone forth into the way,
there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him,
Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.


19
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Mark 10:17-19


Jesus saith unto her, Mary.
She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father:
but go to my brethren, and say unto them,

I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

18
Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

John 20:16-18

50. "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.
51. "'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"
52. When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah." Said the disciples: "We are Allah.s helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are of those who submit to the will of Almighty God.
Quran 3:51-52

And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
117. "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.
118. "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."
119. Allah will say: "This is a day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal Home: Allah well-pleased with them, and they with Allah. That is the great salvation, (the fulfilment of all desires).
120. To Allah doth belong the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is therein, and it is He Who hath power over all things.
Quran 5:116-120
Reply

Eric H
08-13-2011, 10:36 AM
Greetings and peace be with you truthseeker63;

You could spend your whole lifetime asking questions in the search for truth, and you will die searching.
If you are seeking God you have to do SOMETHING,

In the spirit of striving to put our lives in the hands of God.

Eric
Reply

Insaanah
08-13-2011, 11:58 AM
Peace, Eric.

Originally Posted by Eric H
You could spend your whole lifetime asking questions in the search for truth, and you will die searching.
That would mean that God made the truth unattainable.

Sahih International
O Mankind, the Messenger has come to you with the truth from your Lord, so believe; it is better for you. But if you disbelieve - then indeed, to Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and earth. And ever is Allah Knowing and Wise. (4:170)

Sahih International
Say, "O mankind, the truth has come to you from your Lord, so whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul, and whoever goes astray only goes astray [in violation] against it. And I am not over you a manager." (10:108)

Pickthall
Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt. (19:34)

Sahih International
Say, "Indeed, my Lord projects the truth. Knower of the unseen." (34:48)

Sahih International
We had certainly brought you the truth, but most of you, to the truth, were averse. (43:78)

Sahih International
And those who believe and do righteous deeds and believe in what has been sent down upon Muhammad - and it is the truth from their Lord - He will remove from them their misdeeds and amend their condition. (47:2)

Muhsin Khan
Then by the Lord of the heaven and earth, indeed, it is truth - just as [sure as] it is that you are speaking. (51:23)

Muhsin Khan
Verily, this! This is an absolute Truth with certainty. (56:95)

If you feel that you can never find the truth in your current path, then I invite you to Islam.

Peace.
Reply

truthseeker63
08-14-2011, 03:28 AM
Does the Quran and the Hadith talk about the need for and the desire and history of the Caliphate/Khilafah was there a Caliphate/Khilafah founded by and during the time of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him did he found an Caliphate/Khilafah ?

Caliphate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reply

Grace Seeker
08-14-2011, 04:11 AM
This seems like a thread most suited to "Comparitive Religions". As that section is intnetionally closed for Ramadan, I will respect the intent of that closing and wait until after Ramadan to respond to this thread.
Reply

Grace Seeker
08-14-2011, 04:26 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
English = Jesus
Latin = Iesus
Greek = Iesous
Hebrew = Yehosua
Aramaic = Yesua

Christ is originally from Greek word "Christos", means "Anointed One" (or "Messiah" in Hebrew)
I want to confirm that all the above is correct. (Though I would have spelled the Aramaic form of "Jesus" as "Yeshua". This is a very small thing.) You will also find that the transliteration of Christ into Greek is sometimes "Christos" and sometimes "Chrestos" -- this primarily because non-Christian Greeks didn't always spell it the same way that Christians did but did still make references to the Christ worshipped by Christians.
Reply

Grace Seeker
08-14-2011, 04:30 AM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
Next Week I will be meeting an local IMAM about converting to Islam what should I expect ?

Based on your posts, I thought you probably had done so long ago. I think you will find it a good fit for what you appear to already believe. Wishing you God's speed in your faith journey.
Reply

Ramadhan
08-14-2011, 05:16 AM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
This seems like a thread most suited to "Comparitive Religions". As that section is intnetionally closed for Ramadan, I will respect the intent of that closing and wait until after Ramadan to respond to this thread.
How can you be so petty, Pastor?

Jesus (pbuh) is a prophet of Islam, and I see that the OP asked questions and clarifications about the slanders and lies hurled by certain groups towards one of the most loved prophet of Islam.

I see nothing wrong with that, especially since most of the explanations given is from Islamic sources.
Reply

Ali Mujahidin
08-14-2011, 07:05 AM
Originally Posted by abz2000
Jesus has been mentioned in the Quran by several names..........



* Kalimatullaah meaning "God's Word" (3:45)
* Qawl al-haqq, meaning "sure word", (19:34)
* Ruhun minhu meaning a "a Spirit from Him" (4:171)
* al-Masih meaning "The Messiah" mentioned eleven times (English - Christ).
* Nabi meaning "prophet" mentioned in 29:30
* Rasul meaning "messenger" (4:157; 5:75)
* ibn Maryam, Isa ibn Maryam meaning "son of Mary" or "Jesus son of Mary" mentioned thirty three times.
* Abd Allah, meaning "Servant of God"
* Min al-muqareeabin meaning "among those who are close to God", later explained by the fact of his "ascension" mentioned in the Qur'an 3:45
* Wadjih, meaning "worthy of esteem in this world and the next"
* Mubarak, meaning "blessed" as "a source of benefit for others, probably a bringer of baraka" (19:31).
:sl:

JazakuLLah for sharing.
Reply

truthseeker63
08-14-2011, 09:29 PM
Evidence from the Sunnah for the rate of zakaah
being 2.5%
Is this correct ?

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/145600/
Reply

truthseeker63
08-14-2011, 10:18 PM
Is this from the Hadith where can I find this ?

The Prophet Muhammad (saw) said: “The son of Adam has no better right
than that he would have a house wherein he may live, a piece of clothe whereby
he may hide his nakedness and a piece of bread and some water.”
(Tirmidhi)

welfare -
Reply

Abz2000
08-15-2011, 03:38 AM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Based on your posts, I thought you probably had done so long ago. I think you will find it a good fit for what you appear to already believe. Wishing you God's speed in your faith journey.
peace,
it's not just about a good fit for what you believe, it's about humbly acknowledging and submitting to the truth when you see it and sincerely know it to be the truth, there are no size "m"s or "l"s or "xl"s,

as the old (famous) saying goes:
seek the truth
and the truth shall set you free


Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:
for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:
and he will shew you things to come.

John 16:13

1. By the Star when it goes down,-2. Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.
3. Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
4. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
5. He was taught by one Mighty in Power,
Quran 53:1-5

...This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion...
Quran 5:3

things to come -
Mahdi means: The One Who Is Rightly Guided
Certain it is that IN THE TIME OF HAZRAT MAHDI (AS)
IF A BELIEVER IS IN THE EAST HE WILL SEE HIS BROTHER IN THE WEST.
AND IF HE IS IN THE WEST, HE WILL SEE HIS BROTHER IN THE EAST.
(Bihar al-Anwar, Vol. 52, p. 391)

HAS THIS EVER HAPPENED BEFORE??? GOT SKYPE???

Hazrat Mahdi (as) will (spiritually) conquer both east and westand cause Islam (the moral values of Islam) to rule the world...
ALLAH WILL BESTOW SUCH POWERS ON PEOPLE THAT
EVERYONE WILL HEAR HIS (THE MAHDI’S (AS)) WORDS,WHEREVER THEY MAY BE
and Imam (as) will give life to Islam...
(Bihar al-Anwar, Vol. 52, p. 27 and Vol. 53, p.12 Ikmal'ud- Din, Vol. 2, p. 367)

Sadir al-Sayrafi says: I heard from Imam Abu Abdullah Jafar al-Sadiq that: ...
He whose rights have been taken away and who is denied(MAHDI (AS))
WILL WALK AMONG THEM,MOVE THROUGH THEIR MARKETS AND WALK WHERE THEY WALK.
BUT THEY WILL NOT RECOGNIZE HAZRAT MAHDI (AS)until Allah gives them leave to recognize him,just as He did with the Prophet Yusuf (as).
(Sheikh Muhammad bin Ibrahim Nomani, al-Ghaybah al-Nomani, p.189)




And this is the record of John,
when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him,
Who art thou?
And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not.
Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
John 6:14


In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
1. To thee have We granted the Fount (of Abundance).2. Therefore to thy Lord turn in Prayer and Sacrifice.
3. For he who hateth thee, he will be cut off (from Future Hope).
Quran Chapter 108

"Whilst I was walking in Paradise I saw a river whose banks were domes of hollow pearls,
and I asked, "What is this, O Jibrîl?"
He said, "This is al-Kawthar which your Rabb has given to you".
And its scent - or its mud - was of fragrant musk".
Hudbah [one of the narrators] was not sure if he said tib [scent] or teen [mud]. [Sahîh al-Bukhâri, Kitâb ar-Riqâq, Bâb fil-Hawd, Fath al-Bâri, 11/464]

And it is related, on the Prophet's authority, peace and blessings be upon him:
‘[Al-kawthar] is a river in paradise, and my Lord promised me it- in it is abundant good-
sweeter than honey, whiter than milk, colder than snow, softer than cream; its brims are of chrysolite. Its drinking vessels are made of silver;
he who drinks of it does not thirst [again].’ And it is said: a basin is in it.

2 – a great cistern which will be set up in the place of gathering on the Day of Resurrection,
to which the ummah of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) will come.
The water of this cistern will come from the river of al-Kawthar which is in Paradise,
hence it is called the Cistern of al-Kawthar. The evidence for that is the hadeeth narrated by Muslim in his Saheeh (4255) from Abu Dharr, that “into the Cistern will flow two pipes from Paradise.”


In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying,
If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said,
Of a truth this is the Prophet.

Others said,
This is the Christ.
But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
John 7:37-41

The Prophet Muhammad said: “Whoever believes in that there is none worthy of worship except God, and with no partners,
that Muhammad is His messenger,
that Jesus is the servant and messenger of God;
His word which He bestowed upon Mary and a spirit proceeding from Him,
and that Paradise and Hell are true,
shall be received by God into Heaven.”

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
John 15:26-27

For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.
2 Corinthians 13:8

may Almighty God guide us all,
and peace be to those who follow the guidance

Reply

Ramadhan
08-15-2011, 04:46 AM
Originally Posted by abz2000
peace,
it's not just about a good fit for what you believe, it's about humbly acknowledging and submitting to the truth when you see it and sincerely know it to be the truth, there are no size "m"s or "l"s or "xl"s,
This.

I think most christians believe that truth should be made to fit one's belief (and one's belief is subject to one's desire/whims/etc).
Reply

truthseeker63
08-15-2011, 05:58 PM
The Prophet Muhammad (saw) said: “The son of Adam has no better right
than that he would have a house wherein he may live, a piece of clothe whereby
he may hide his nakedness and a piece of bread and some water.”
(Tirmidhi)

welfare -

Since the Dhimmi pay Jizya to the Public Treasury do they get any kind of Welfare if they are Poor. The reason I ask is because I have read and heard Zakat can only be given to Muslims and that the Dhimmi who are Poor must rely on Sadaqah is this true or not I ask this because I think some Dhimmi would be open to living under the Sharia if they could keep their Social Security ?

Jizya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dhimmi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Islamic economic jurisprudence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/zakat/
Reply

Grace Seeker
08-15-2011, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by abz2000
peace,
it's not just about a good fit for what you believe, it's about humbly acknowledging and submitting to the truth when you see it and sincerely know it to be the truth, there are no size "m"s or "l"s or "xl"s,
Wise words. May we all be set free by He who is the Truth.
Reply

ProudMuslimSis
08-16-2011, 02:38 AM
So the Truthseeker has found the truth at last!:welcome:
Congratulations!
Reply

Ğħαrєєвαħ
08-16-2011, 02:37 PM
Greetings of peace..

Alhamdulilaah.

Though somehow I thought you was already muslim, but yeah I hope the meeting goes well insha'Allaah..
Reply

teterouge
08-17-2011, 09:28 AM
good answering
Reply

Muslom
08-17-2011, 02:54 PM
Originally Posted by Karl
I'm not saying anything openly offensive, therefore anyone who feels offended should just grow some thicker skin! I'm NOT decieving myself about species. Yes we might be all "humans", but (as far as I'm concerned) nonetheless different species of humans, just as there are also huge numbers of fish species. It's so obvious. My inexorable subscription to polygenism is merely a recognition of DIFFERENCE, rather than an intention of HIERARCHY or RACIAL SUPREMACY. This is NOT what I am about. In fact I oppose it, and I regard my polygenist beliefs as a call for different human species to give each other more respect than they do. A lot of the problem with monogenist thinking is that it creates more intolerance towards different human species who prefer to stay isolationist and don't want a bar of modern Western hegemony. In many ways, monogenist mentality leads to a lot of intolerance because the attitude is saying "hey you are one of our species, therefore the ideas we want to globally enforce must ALSO be good for YOU too." This is the arrogant mentality many monogenists have. Marxists (The United Nations etc) are also monogenists, and this is largely why most of them have a flagrant disregard for racial sovereignty.

Don't let your mind get clouded by politically correct over-sensitivity regarding race. WHY do you get the idea that I had intention to "insult" Mongolians and Somalians??? I just said they are DIFFERENT? I NEVER said there was anything "wrong" with them. I actually feel quite insulted that you would think I MEANT that. DON'T READ THINGS INTO MY STATEMENTS THAT I DON'T EVEN SAY. There was nothing intended to be disparaging about those comments I made. It is a plain scientific fact that many oriental races have "flat" type faces. Look it up, and you will find this description in many common text books!
I apologize If any of what i wrote caused you any discomfort,but I am very sensitive to Racism and Slavery I really am , it's the only thing that can make me really angry and upset. What I concluded from your previous posts was that were are not all the same- The arguement racists used to justify their racism, the bottom line is we are all human beings and we are all equal being a Somali or an Ethiopian or Chinese is not in the hands of us human beings so no one can be blamed for their skin color or the genetic background because simply it's not their fault. I wish whenever you bring up your views you atleast support them with some kind of impartial context and also bear in mind the sad history of our human past.

Peace be to you.
Reply

Ali Mujahidin
08-18-2011, 07:23 AM
Originally Posted by Karl
Life if FIGURATIVELY a journey, not literally a journey. See what I mean?
:sl:

A journey is the activity that involves moving from point A to point B. So in real life, you actually move from point A to point B. For example, at point A you are five years old and as you grow older, you move on to point B where you are six years old. In this example, moving from point A to point B is not figurative at all, because you literally, meaning really actually, move from the point where you are five years old to the point where you are six years old. There is nothing imaginary or figurative about this. Life is, literally, a journey. See what I mean?

Same with the Holy Quran. For a start, the Holy Quran does not have to be scientifically validated to be true. The Holy Quran is the truth. Just because you do not see the truth in the Holy Quran does not mean that it is not true. For you, and me, too, for that matter, to try to comprehend the full meaning of the Holy Quran with our limited resources is, to use a very rough analogy, rather like a lowly worm trying to comprehend, say, why there is a full moon every 28 days. See what I mean?

I am reminded of what Isaac Asimov wrote in the preface of his book "The Human Brain". What he said, more or less, was that while it is possible for the brain of man to study the brain of a frog, it is an impossibility for a man to use his own brain to study the brain of a man itself. For the brain of a man to try to comprehend how Allah works is even more more far-fetched, multiply that by a gadzillion times. See what I mean?
Reply

flowergarden
08-18-2011, 07:33 AM
I learned about this in my Anthropology class.. And I think race is a myth. I understand their are different languages, etc. But we all are the same! We all have hearts, we all have brain, and we all have the same skeletal figure... But I guess it is a good organization. It hard for me to explain, but I believe the anthropologist!
Reply

truthseeker63
08-18-2011, 03:57 PM
Can it be proven that the United States of America is aiding the State of Israel the Zionist or the Jewish State what I mean is are there any Treaties or anything like that that the Americans have signed with the Israelis I also want to say because of America's support for Zionism is one reason as to why I won't and don't even vote or care about American Politics or who wins the Israeli Lobby controls their Puppets in my view ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Isr...Foreign_Policy
Reply

Eric H
08-18-2011, 07:03 PM
Greetings and peace be with you truthseeker63;

I hope you let us know how you get on.

In the spirit of searching for God

Eric
Reply

NobleMuslimUK
08-19-2011, 04:29 AM
Mashallah, this is good news brother. The reversions I have witnessed are normally pretty straight forward. You testify there is none worthy of worship but Allah and Mohammad peace be upon him was Allah's final messenger. If you come from a christian background the imam will ask you to confirm that you believe Jesus peace be upon him is a messenger of Allah. There will be several witnesses present.
When you read the shahada, everyone present will chant Allah u akbar and the brothers will hug you welcoming you to the islamic family.
Before you go cleanse yourself, have a bath, wear clean fresh clothes, wear some nice smell and be yourself.

Remember brother all your past sins upto that point will be forgiven as though you are reborn and no sins on your record. Some scholars say (someone please confirm) that all your sins are forgiven and turned into good deeds. If you owe someone something such as money or something you borrowed you must still repay or return that.

May Allah guide you ameen.
Reply

Muslim Woman
08-19-2011, 06:26 AM
Salaam/Peace

Originally Posted by truthseeker63
Next Week I will be meeting an local IMAM about converting to Islam

if u believe that Islam is the Truth , then don't wait for meeting with the Imam . U must utter the Shahada right now - there is no god but Allah and Muhammed is a slave and messenger of Allah.

Later u can do it publicly / officially .

May Allah always bless you.
Reply

thetruth89
08-20-2011, 05:39 AM
As-salamua'laikum warahhmatullah. may Allah make this journey prosperous and easy you.
Remember, a lot of Muslims are not practicing Muslims therefore instead of studding Muslims please study Islam.
As it was said above, depending on the kind of imaan that you go to…. because some imams (may Allah forgive us and guide us all) put their culture before Islam therefore you may experience little difficulty however stay firm and ask Allah Subbhanahuwata’la for help.

Here is this website you can visit and I know the shaek (scholer, imam) very well hhamdulillah (thank Allah) and inshaAllah you can benefit from him
Im not allowed to put any link In this forum yet because Im a new user so I’ll try to avoid the format

Noora number one

com

or e-mail him at

amoait at gmail.com


Put all these letters/words and the number together and then write .com

Hope and pray this is helpful
Reply

Ramadhan
08-20-2011, 06:00 AM
Originally Posted by thetruth89
Noora number one

com
Is that http://Nooranumberone.com ?
because it doesn't work
Reply

Abz2000
08-21-2011, 08:23 PM
Originally Posted by Ramadhan
Is that http://Nooranumberone.com ?
because it doesn't work
i think it's possibly:

http://noora1.com/

a
s that worked,

it was funny how you were afraid to put .com with a space, then said it complete at the end anyways haha
Reply

Asiyah3
08-21-2011, 09:17 PM
Al-hamdulillah, I'm very happy for you.

Don't worry, I'm sure it'll go well, insha'Allah. Allah is with you, put your trust in Him.
Reply

Innocent Soul
08-21-2011, 11:33 PM
Originally Posted by abz2000
it was funny how you were afraid to put .com with a space, then said it complete at the end anyways haha
Limited members can't post links :D.
Reply

Abz2000
08-22-2011, 12:27 AM


here is a site with a wealth of information and statistics:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/usaid.html

“Since the October War in 1973, Washington has provided Israel with a level of support dwarfing the amounts provided to any other state. It has been the largest annual recipient of direct U.S. economic and military assistance since 1976 and the largest total recipient since World War ll. Total direct U.S. aid to Israel amounts to well over $140 billion in 2003 dollars. Israel receives about $3 billion in direct foreign assistance each year, which is roughly one-fifth of America's entire foreign aid budget. In per capita terms, the United States gives each Israeli a direct subsidy worth about $500 per year. This largesse is especially striking when one realizes that Israel is now a wealthy industrial state with a per capita income roughly equal to South Korea or Spain.”
- John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt
"The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy"
* The source for US military aid to Israel during Fiscal Year 2011 is the Congressional Research Service’s “U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel,” written by Jeremy M. Sharp, Specialist in Middle Eastern Affairs, updated September 16, 2010. According to this report, the Obama Administration requested $3 billion in Foreign Military Financing (FMF) for Israel for the fiscal year 2011.

it seems clear that those who oppose the laws of Almighty God feel a need to ensure there is a strong atheist presence in the middle east:

Sir Campbell Bannerman, [Prime Minister of Britain (1905-08)]
“ There are people who control spacious territories teeming with manifest and hidden resources.
They dominate the intersections of world routes. Their lands were the cradles of human civilizations and religions.
These people have one faith, one language, one history and the same aspirations.
No natural barriers can isolate these people from one another
... if, per chance, this nation were to be unified into one state, it would then take the fate of the world into its hands and would separate Europe from the rest of the world.
Taking these considerations seriously,

a foreign body should be planted in the heart of this nation to prevent the convergence of its wings in such a way

that it could exhaust its powers in never-ending wars.

It could also serve as a springboard for the West to gain its coveted objects.” - 1902


Lord Zetland [March 24, 1940, British Secretary of State for the colonial India]
“[T]he call of Islam is one which transcends the bounds of country. It may have lost some force as a result of the abolition of Caliphate by Mustafa Kamal Pasha, but it still has a very considerable appeal as witness for example Jinnah’s insistence on our giving undertaking that Indian troops should never be employed against any Muslim state, and the solicitude which he has constantly expressed for the Arabs of Palestine.”

US Think Tanks
In December 2004,
A report by the National Intelligence Council (NIC)
state a possible scenario that by 2020 a “New Caliphate" would have been established.
This 123-page report titled "Mapping the Global Future" was aimed to prepare the next Bush administration for future challenges,
and was presented to US President, members of Congress, cabinet members and key officials involved in policymaking.
According to CSIS (Center for Strategic and International Studies), Washington based think tank,
this report was not a prediction, but a case exercise/study which involves observing the various events taking place in the world.
These events are then connected in such a way that there might be a possibility of forming of a Caliphate state.
Given that such a state may be established, then it is to be decided from today as to what needs to be done to prevent it, if it needs to be prevented.
Moreover there are two organizations which did such a study,

one is the CIA and the other is Shell Oil Company.


President Bush
“The militants believe that controlling one country will rally the Muslim masses, enabling them to overthrow all moderate governments in the region, and establish a radical Islamic empire that spans from Spain to Indonesia"
“The murderous ideology of the Islamic radicals is the great challenge of our new century. Yet, in many ways, this fight resembles the struggle against communism in the last century."


**** Cheney [Vice President, Speech in Sydney, Australia February 2007]

" ...And it is they, the terrorists, who have ambitions of empire. Their goal in the broader Middle East is to seize control of a country, so they have a base from which they can launch attacks against governments that refuse to meet their demands. Their ultimate aim -- and one they boldly proclaim -- is to establish a caliphate covering a region from Spain, across North Africa, through the Middle East and South Asia, all the way to Indonesia. And it wouldn't stop there.
...The war on terror is more than a contest of arms, and more than a test of will. It is a battle of ideas...."

.......(i wonder if he was talking about his own ambitions)

Israel

The State of Israel inherited its sodomy ("buggery") law from the British Mandate of Palestine but there is no record that it was ever enforced against homosexual acts that took place between consenting adults in private. In the late 1960s the Supreme Court of Israel ruled that these laws could not be enforced and they were formally repealed by the Official legislature in 1988. The age of consent for both heterosexuals and homosexuals is sixteen years of age.

08/06/09
Netanyahu visits Tel Aviv gay center





(Reuters) - Beset by questions about Jerusalem's future in talks with the Palestinians, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reached for the Bible on Wednesday to stake out the Jewish state's contested claim on the city.
Netanyahu told a parliamentary session commemorating Israel's capture of East Jerusalem from Jordan in the 1967 war that "Jerusalem" and its alternative Hebrew name "Zion" appear 850 times in the Old Testament, Judaism's core canon.


17There shall be no ***** of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel. 18Thou shalt not bring the hire of a *****, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
Deuteronomy 23:17-18



think...........is this anything to do with returning to "the holy land" - or ensuring that the lives of others who respect it are made difficult, and ensuring that there is a strong Anti-religious presence there? just youtube: israel gay pride - and you'll have an idea. i won't embed any of that stuff and defile this site with it.

Over the last 20 years, the U.S. has been slowly phasing out economic aid to Israel and gradually replacing it with increased military aid. Beginning in 2007, the U.S. has increased military aid by $150 million each year. By FY2012, we will be sending Israel $3.09 billion a year (or an average of $8.5 million a day) and will continue to provide military aid at that level through 2018. U.S. tax dollars are subsidizing one of the most powerful foreign militaries. According to the CRS report, “[current U.S. military aid] grants to Israel represent 18.2% of the overall Israeli defense budget.”
Contrary to ordinary U.S. policy, Israel has been and continues to be allowed to use approximately 25% of this military aid to purchase equipment from Israeli manufacturers. According to CRS, “no other recipient of U.S. military assistance has been granted this benefit.” Thanks in part to this indirect U.S. subsidy, Israel’s arms industry has become one of the strongest in the world. “Between 2001 an 2008, it was the 7th largest arms supplier to the world with sales worth a total of 9.9 billion.”
U.S. Military Aid and Israel


Jewish Voice for Peace Statement on Peace, U.S. Military Aid and Israel, 2004


Why we urge the U.S. government to suspend military aid to Israel until it ends its 37-year occupation of the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem.

U.S. military aid to Israel has a dramatic effect on Israel's policies towards the Palestinians. It has increasingly been used not to pay for defense but to finance the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands. It keeps Israel from facing the difficult but necessary challenges of building a more democratic society, and encourages solving deep-rooted problems by military rather than peaceful and more effective means.
The U.S. funding that pays for the guns and ammunition, F-16 bombers, and Apache helicopters that are used to carry out Israel's occupation of Palestinian land and people serves neither Israelis, Palestinians, nor Americans.
In short, Israel cannot build a society based on the principles of democracy, human rights, and compliance with international law while brutally occupying another people and their land. The United States is currently paying for that occupation with its annual aid. That's why Jewish Voice for Peace urges the U.S. government to suspend military aid to Israel until Israel ends its 37-year occupation of the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem.

Top Five Things You Should Know About U.S. Military Aid to Israel

1. Harm to Palestinian civilians A large part of U.S. military aid to Israel goes to purchase tanks, helicopter gunships, machine guns, and bullets that are used against Palestinian civilians. Our tax dollars have been used to destroy homes; uproot trees and crops; seize land from its lawful owners; close all access to food, medicine, and the outside world for small towns in the West Bank and Gaza; staff checkpoints that cut off ambulances and other civilian traffic; and carry out assassinations that kill children in addition to summarily executing political leaders. When Palestinian doctors remove bullets from the bodies of Palestinian children, the bullets are typically stamped ?Made in the U.S.A.?
Israel has used its U.S.-financed arsenal against unarmed Palestinian civilians, including children. Amnesty International reports that in 2002 alone, ?At least 1,000 Palestinians were killed by the Israeli army, most of them unlawfully. They included some 150 children and at least 35 individuals killed in targeted assassinations. Certain abuses committed by the Israeli army constituted war crimes.?[including] unlawful killings, obstruction of medical assistance and targeting of medical personnel, extensive and wanton destruction of property, torture and cruel and inhuman treatment, unlawful confinement and the use of "`human shields."?
?The IDF continued to demolish houses and destroy agricultural land and industrial installations throughout the Gaza Strip?.The IDF routinely used F-16 fighter jets, helicopter gunships, and tanks to bomb and shell Palestinian residential areas in response to gunfire or mortar attacks by Palestinians or in reprisal for suicide bombings and other attacks??
Go to Amnesty International for more reports on the Occupied Territories and Israel.
2. Harm to Israelis In addition to the devastation it visits on Palestinians, the occupation threatens the democratic values Israel seeks to uphold. Massive military aid promotes militarism, which has led to a reliance on military, rather than diplomatic means to work for a solution to this ongoing conflict. More and more Israelis question the moral decay that accompanies the criminal actions of the military and the dehumanization of the Palestinian people. A peace rally at the height of Israel?s reoccupation of the main towns of the West Bank in April 2002 drew 15,000 protestors in Tel Aviv. Currently nearly 1,200 Israeli army reservists refuse to serve in the Occupied Territories because the occupation corrupts Israeli society and endangers, rather than enhances, the security of Israelis. Israeli activists support the suspension of U.S. military aid to Israel; in the words of feminist activist Rela Mazali, ?[T]he U.S. foots most of the bills run up by this siege and makes some of the most lethal weapons used to maintain it. We hope you will tell your government to stop arming the conflict.?
3. Harm to the U.S. and its citizens Israel is required to use 75% of its military aid from the U.S. to buy arms and equipment such as Caterpillar bulldozers made in the U.S. It funnels this money to more than 1,000 U.S. arms suppliers, which in turn lobby for U.S. policies that benefit them at the expense of peace in the Middle East. As a result, the diversion of our tax dollars not only reduces funding for education and social programs but militarizes our public policy overall. U.S. military aid to Israel sets the U.S. in opposition to many Arab and European nations who recognize the horrors of the occupation. This makes U.S. citizens less safe because we are more hated. And the massive flow of arms into Israel is made even more dangerous by arms sales of lesser quality to other Middle Eastern countries such as Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia. While all this business fills the coffers of arms merchants, it makes the Middle East ever more unstable. Furthermore, when our government arms proponents of massive human rights abuses, we become complicit in their crimes and hated by their victims. U.S. support of Israel?s occupation of Palestinian lands and its abuse of human rights undermines any moral authority to criticize human rights abuses in other countries. And it shreds the U.S. of any credibility in acting to promote peace in the region. 4. Violations of U.S. and international law U.S. law prohibits the president from furnishing military aid to any country ?which engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights.? 22 U.S.C. ? 2304(a). The U.S. Department of State reported in March 2003 that, ?Israel's overall human rights record in the occupied territories remained poor and worsened in several areas as it continued to commit serious human rights abuses?.Israeli security units used excessive force during Palestinian demonstrations, while on patrol, pursuing suspects, and enforcing checkpoints and curfews, which resulted in many deaths.? Targeting civilians, as Israel has done, is a war crime under the Fourth Geneva Convention. The fact that Palestinian groups have done the same makes it no less criminal. For more information on these human rights violations visit www.btselem.org, and web.amnesty.org/report2003/2md-index-eng.
5. Aid is excessive and disproportionate More U.S. aid goes to Israel than any other country, even though Israel?s per capita income is as high as many European countries. In fiscal year 2003 Israel received a foreign military financing grant of $3.1 billion and a $600 million grant for economic security in addition to $11 billion in commercial loan guarantees. This total aid package of nearly $15 billion makes Israel by far the largest single recipient of U.S. aid. U.S. aid is a function of politics. According to a Time/CNN poll, released April 12, 2002, 60% of Americans favor cutting aid to Israel if Israel does not immediately withdraw its troops from Palestinian areas. Further, U.S. aid to other countries is often tied to various conditions, depending on what the U.S. wants the aid recipient to do. We are asking that aid to Israel be treated in the same manner.
Pouring arms into an area of the world already plagued by violence can only increase death and destruction and render the U.S. a questionable broker for peace at best. In these hard economic days, that money can be put to use in the U.S. or it could be used to build a stable Palestinian society, out of the devastation that exists there now. The Israeli economy has been in a downward spiral for years, and foreign investment has long been directly related to the level of violence in the region. Using military aid as a lever to end the occupation will be a boon to the security and hopes for the future for both Israelis and Palestinians.

watch all parts:




Reply

Karl
08-23-2011, 12:50 AM
Originally Posted by ThisOldMan
:sl:

A journey is the activity that involves moving from point A to point B. So in real life, you actually move from point A to point B. For example, at point A you are five years old and as you grow older, you move on to point B where you are six years old. In this example, moving from point A to point B is not figurative at all, because you literally, meaning really actually, move from the point where you are five years old to the point where you are six years old. There is nothing imaginary or figurative about this. Life is, literally, a journey. See what I mean?

Same with the Holy Quran. For a start, the Holy Quran does not have to be scientifically validated to be true. The Holy Quran is the truth. Just because you do not see the truth in the Holy Quran does not mean that it is not true. For you, and me, too, for that matter, to try to comprehend the full meaning of the Holy Quran with our limited resources is, to use a very rough analogy, rather like a lowly worm trying to comprehend, say, why there is a full moon every 28 days. See what I mean?

I am reminded of what Isaac Asimov wrote in the preface of his book "The Human Brain". What he said, more or less, was that while it is possible for the brain of man to study the brain of a frog, it is an impossibility for a man to use his own brain to study the brain of a man itself. For the brain of a man to try to comprehend how Allah works is even more more far-fetched, multiply that by a gadzillion times. See what I mean?
So ageing is a journey your explanation sounds like sophistry to me.
And you say the Quran is incomprehendable even though it is the message of Allah to the people. Hmmm
The Noble Quran is easy to understand otherwise it would be a worthless message.
Also the human brain is constantly being studied and new breakthroughs are happening in the field of disease.
Reply

Karl
08-23-2011, 01:34 AM
Originally Posted by flowergarden
I learned about this in my Anthropology class.. And I think race is a myth. I understand their are different languages, etc. But we all are the same! We all have hearts, we all have brain, and we all have the same skeletal figure... But I guess it is a good organization. It hard for me to explain, but I believe the anthropologist!
This "one race" belief so popular today is one of the most bizarre phenomenons I've ever encountered. On ONE hand, people seem to be more than happy to recognise different races of fish or different races of bird but GOD FORBID anyone mention that there is more than one race of HUMAN! I write people off who claim that there is only "one race". Race is NOT a myth, and I can't help that you have been mindwashed in your "anthropology class" by a new mentality inspired by political correctness and Marxism. These modern day anthropologists are complete propagandist scoundrels and liars. You claim we all have hearts, brains and "same" skeletal figure. But if you are going to use this argument than I guess we need to also include cats and dogs with this "single human race" too, given that cats and dogs have brains, hearts and the same skeletal figure. Those rationalizing anthropologists are just trying to twist things about by claiming that "seeing all humans stand upright on two legs they therefore must be just one species". That is just utterly LUDICROUS RUBBISH! I mean if THAT argument is to be used then we may as well include ALL living animals that stand upright on two legs. We would have to include gorillas, chimpanzees, etc etc as ALSO included in this imaginary "one human race"! But the real fact is that hominids DON'T have the same skeletal figure! Their skeletal dimensions and sizes vary INCREDIBLY! Don't try and tell me that Germanic species have the same skeletal look as pygmies! They DON'T! Their difference in look is REMARKABLE. Their sizes and dimensions have virtually NO similarites at ALL.
Reply

Ali Mujahidin
08-23-2011, 04:08 AM
:sl:

Just want to confirm one point before continuing with this discussion. This question is directed to Karl. Of course, this question can also be posed in a PM but since Karl has expressed himself openly in this thread, I think it is appropriate to ask Karl to post his answer here. My question is:

To Karl,

Do you or do you not believe that all human beings are descended from Adam and Eve?

A very simple question. Looking forward to a very simple answer.
Reply

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