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truthseeker63
06-03-2011, 03:17 PM
Is the American Dream to get Rich/Wealthy or to be Middle Class ? In my opinion I would love to be Rich or Wealthy Capitalism promotes the idea that we can all be Rich one day.



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al yunan
06-04-2011, 10:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by truthseeker63
is the american dream to get rich/wealthy or to be middle class ?

american dream = world's nightmare



PS: Truthseeker or Wealth seeker ?
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May Ayob
06-04-2011, 11:04 AM
Salaam brother

The American dream is much more than that is a sugarcoated speech or policy that puts American infront of everyone else in this planet so just as brother alyunan said - it is pretty much a night mare.
All i know is that being rich or not , in health or not is not in our hands nor in the hands of capatalism it is all in the hands of God almighty so if you want to be increased in wealth just ask God .

salaam
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Riana17
06-04-2011, 11:22 AM
American dream is not ideal

Funny thing I am scared to be rich and if I will be given a chance to choose, I want to be middle class forever :D

I've already experience it all, when my income was (lets say) 10$ and now I am getting 10x of that at age of 25, nothing change in me. The way I dress, the food I eat, I still like to go by bus rather than taxi if husband is not available. It is where I find happiness in living with simplicity. Many of my batch strive to get huge house, 1 or two, but I always say that, Big house is harram if nobody will live.

Maybe it is bcoz I came from a poor family, besides I am preparing myself in case Allah take all the wealth we have. Inshallah not but I am not so afraid to be poor again.
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ardianto
06-04-2011, 01:23 PM
There is idiom in my place, "Jual Deudeut". "Jual" means sell, "Deudeut" literally means push something to small box. But "Jual Deudeut" an idiom means "urge/force the costumer to buy the product". Example of "Jual Deudeut" is, a seller comes to you and force you to buy with "You don't have any choice other than buy my product !, you must buy from me !, bla, ...bla,...,bla..."

But, what is correlation between "Jual Deudeut" and American Dream ?

>

>

>

That's what American government do. :D
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Who Am I?
06-04-2011, 05:34 PM
I grew up in a middle-class family. We weren't rich, but my sister and I always had enough to eat and always had clothes to wear and a place to sleep at night.

Now that I am on my own and pay all of my own bills, I'm lucky to have a little money to set aside every month after my bills are paid.

The new American dream for me is survival.
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truthseeker63
06-04-2011, 05:53 PM
In a ideal world we would all be Rich/Wealthy but it is only a dream for most people however I do think people's basic needs can and could and should be meant.

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al yunan
06-04-2011, 06:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truthseeker63
In a ideal world we would all be Rich/Wealthy but it is only a dream for most people however I do think people's basic needs can and could and should be meant.

Reminds one of a seventies saying "America love it or Leave it"
I don't know why you are all always whining, you don't like it there is a big world out there, move !
The rest of the world survives and thrives with out your Republic.
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truthseeker63
06-04-2011, 06:43 PM
Do I like the American People the answer is yes I do do I like the American Government the answer is no I don't.
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May Ayob
06-04-2011, 06:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truthseeker63
Do I like the American People the answer is yes I do do I like the American Government the answer is no I don't.
Well then why are you very disturbed, Wealth is not important , the prophet PBUH said that the rich is not the one who owns means of wealth , true richness in the self controll and self suffiecent , or i think that is a hadeeth, if not then probably a proverb.
Many people in this word have not been blessed with wealth , what do they make of it? nothing because it is not wealth that matters, it is finding inner peace in this life and having a meaning in it that you live by through out your whole life.
i hope this helps
Salaam
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truthseeker63
06-04-2011, 06:52 PM
I agree with you that Wealth is not important if a Rich man goes to Hell and a Poor man goes to Heaven or to Paradise who is the one with true riches ?
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May Ayob
06-04-2011, 06:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truthseeker63
The American Dream is a national ethos of the United States in which freedom includes a promise of the possibility of prosperity and success. In the definition of the American Dream by James Truslow Adams in 1931, "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth.[1] The idea of the American Dream is rooted in the United States Declaration of Independence which proclaims that "all men are created equal" and that they are "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights" including "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."[2]
funny thing is that all these rights only imply on a certain type of people - the americans ofcourse anyone other than that you can step on them with your shoe.
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truthseeker63
06-04-2011, 06:58 PM
I view going to Heaven or Paradise as true riches Im not a Materialist I don't have a Marxist view of life.
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truthseeker63
06-04-2011, 07:01 PM
I am by no means Rich/Wealthy in terms of Material things or Money or Wealth and I have no desire to be I don't believe in Class Envy or Wealth Envy.
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May Ayob
06-04-2011, 07:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truthseeker63
I view going to Heaven or Paradise as true riches Im not a Materialist I don't have a Marxist view of life.
Very Good :) , in my point of view the true rich human being is the one who is not afraid to go through any hardship for the sake of what they believe in, the sacrifice the cheap and precious , they can sacrifice their own life and risk an unknown destiny for what they belive in. God knows best,
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al yunan
06-04-2011, 07:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truthseeker63
I agree with you that Wealth is not important if a Rich man goes to Hell and a Poor man goes to Heaven or to Paradise who is the one with true riches ?
Salam truthseeker,

I asume you are not Muslim so I quote Plato "a man who has a Friend is trully the richest man on earth"

Masalam
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ProudMuslimSis
06-05-2011, 01:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by May Ayob
Many people in this word have not been blessed with wealth , what do they make of it? nothing because it is not wealth that matters, it is finding inner peace in this life and having a meaning in it that you live by through out your whole life.
i hope this helps
Salaam
In America, no one ever has enough money or things. And, still you see a lot of people on anti-depressants even though they are "free" but they lack inner peace. The corporations and the media promote hyper-consumerism which gets people into too much debt and living pay check to pay check. Hardly anyone saves for a rainy day and some families even have to do without health insurance. Also, most of Americans who bought homes to reach their "American Dream," are now loosing their homes, in addition to their jobs.

The top 1% always thrives, pays lower percentage of taxes, and has the lobbying power to get what they want to promote their causes. I would like to conclude that many of the US involvements around the world are mainly based on improving the ROI for those tycoons.
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truthseeker63
06-05-2011, 02:30 AM
The Rich/Wealthy don't pay a lot of taxes in the West.



Taxation in Islam: Wealth Tax

Thursday, 17 July 2008 14:11


Abdul-Kareem

The following article is based on the book Funds in the Khilafah State which is a translation of Al-Amwal fi Dowlat Al-Khilafah by Abdul-Qadeem Zalloom.

Wealth Tax

In western capitalist countries their taxation penalises the poor and vulnerable in society. Clever accounting and offshore Swiss bank accounts ensure the rich in western societies can avoid paying the majority of taxes altogether. In the UK for example, the Queen is one of the richest people in Britain yet she pays no income tax, whereas a poor single mother or an old age pensioner must pay income tax. With regressive taxes like the sales taxes on goods and services these hurt the poor more than the rich since the tax rates are the same for both.

http://www.khilafah.com/index.php/th...lam-wealth-tax
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truthseeker63
06-05-2011, 02:33 AM
The Rich hide their money in Swiss Bank Accounts and the Banks won't tell the Western Governments that they have the money the money is hidden the Rich also have the Lobbyists therefor they control and run the Western Governments the Western Governments are paid off by these Lobbyists.

Super-rich hide trillions offshore

· Study reveals assets 10 times larger than UK GDP
· Exchequers deprived of hundreds of billions in tax

Nick Mathiason
The Observer, Sunday 27 March 2005
Article history

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...economicpolicy

Top 10 corporations which paid no taxes

Here is Sen. Sanders’ list of the 10 worst corporate income tax avoiders:

1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings. (Source: Exxon Mobil’s 2009 shareholder report filed with the SEC here.)

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion. (Source: Forbes.com here, ProPublica here and Treasury here.)

3) General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States over the past five years and, thanks to clever use of loopholes, paid no taxes.(Source: Citizens for Tax Justice here and The New York Times here. Note: despite rumors to the contrary, the Times has stood by its story.)

4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009. (Source: See 2009 Chevron annual report here. Note 15 on page FS-46 of this report shows a U.S. federal income tax liability of $128 million, but that it was able to defer $147 million for a U.S. federal income tax liability of negative $19 million.)

5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year. (Source: Paul Buchheit, professor, DePaul University, here and Citizens for Tax Justice here.)

6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year, received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction. (Source: the company’s 2009 annual report, pg. 112, here.)

7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department. (Source: Bloomberg News here, ProPublica here, Treasury Department here.)

8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury. (Source: Paul Buchheit, professor, DePaul University, here, ProPublica here, Treasury Department here.)

9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2006 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction. (Sources: Profits can be found here. The deduction can be found on the company’s 2010 SEC 10-K report to shareholders on 2009 finances, pg. 127, here.)

10) Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits over the past five years, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent. (Source: The New York Times here.)

http://www.greenpartywatch.org/2011/...paid-no-taxes/
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Who Am I?
06-05-2011, 03:20 AM
The rich are always screwing over the poor. That's nothing new. Just look at history. Always have, always will.
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Mister Agenda
06-23-2011, 10:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by May Ayob
funny thing is that all these rights only imply on a certain type of people - the americans ofcourse anyone other than that you can step on them with your shoe.
It is a sad truth that every people has to stand up for their own rights, you can't count on the more powerful nations to be forebearing. I wish the USA were an exception to that rule, but I know full well that most of our 'foriegn adventures' have been fueled by either special interests or short-sighted self-interest. It's the way of nations, I hope that changes in the future, but generally the most you can hope for from a government is that it won't step on its own citizens too hard with its shoe.
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Who Am I?
06-24-2011, 01:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mister Agenda
It is a sad truth that every people has to stand up for their own rights, you can't count on the more powerful nations to be forebearing. I wish the USA were an exception to that rule, but I know full well that most of our 'foriegn adventures' have been fueled by either special interests or short-sighted self-interest. It's the way of nations, I hope that changes in the future, but generally the most you can hope for from a government is that it won't step on its own citizens too hard with its shoe.
Government has lost sight of what it is really supposed to do. The original framers of the US Constitution only intended for limited government, and its original purpose was to protect the rights of its citizens, not to tell the citizens what their rights are and to control every aspect of their lives. The government should not be making your decisions for you, but sadly there are far too many people now who rely on the government to tell them what to do in their lives. Our founding fathers would weep at what we as a nation have become.
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May Ayob
06-24-2011, 01:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mister Agenda
It is a sad truth that every people has to stand up for their own rights, you can't count on the more powerful nations to be forebearing.

Peace be to you Brother,
Yes you are right no one can expect the so called "powerful" countries to stand up for their own rights , but if these countries are eating up all my rights as a human being and left my country a mess after colonization , then i wouldn't expect something more better to offer.
Didn't mean to offend you
Peace be to you.
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Mister Agenda
06-24-2011, 02:44 PM
I'm not offended. You're right. And most Americans aren't even aware of much of what their government does in their name that we would be appalled by. What makes it even sadder is that in the long run I think it makes us worse off as a nation, so we don't even gain anything from it. Its for nothing.
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Futuwwa
06-24-2011, 03:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines
The rich are always screwing over the poor. That's nothing new. Just look at history. Always have, always will.
And the poor in America largely accept it because they've been deluded to believe that 1) The rich are rich because of their own efforts, 2) The rich get rich by creating wealth for all of us, and 3) You too can become one of them by working hard enough.

The American Dream is the new opium of the people. If people would wake up from that haze, poop would hit the fan. Looking at in what a perverse direction American capitalism is developing, I wouldn't be surprised if the USA would undergo a Communist revolution after a few decades.
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Who Am I?
06-24-2011, 05:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
And the poor in America largely accept it because they've been deluded to believe that 1) The rich are rich because of their own efforts, 2) The rich get rich by creating wealth for all of us, and 3) You too can become one of them by working hard enough.

The American Dream is the new opium of the people. If people would wake up from that haze, poop would hit the fan. Looking at in what a perverse direction American capitalism is developing, I wouldn't be surprised if the USA would undergo a Communist revolution after a few decades.
It's already starting to happen, or least a move toward socialism. A big concern during the Presidential election was Obama's "share the wealth" tax system that he talked about implementing. A lot of people (myself included) decried it as "socialism" (which I still think it is). It hasn't happened yet, but Congress is talking about raising taxes across the board to alleviate some of the crippling debt we face as a nation.

I think the people of the USA as a whole are too afraid of the government to really stand up and demand change. Plus, too many people now rely on the government to provide them with basic necessities, and they don't want to do anything to upset that balance.

It's just another form of slavery where people are so dependent upon the government that they will do whatever they are told without thinking about it. The government, for their part, is not interested in helping the poor better themselves. They want to keep the poor indebted to them so that they can stay in power.
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Futuwwa
06-24-2011, 06:27 PM
Well, now that you are a Muslim, it would be appropriate if you stopped talking about "Socialism" as if it was a bad thing :)
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IAmZamzam
06-24-2011, 07:00 PM
1. The American government does not have a monopoly on oppression and dishonesty so I would like it if people stopped talking as though it did. In every country politics is the only profession which isn't merely a cesspool but more or less a synonym for the word "cesspool". This is a given. Wherever you live, if you think your own country's government is a great deal less corrupt then ours, stop and consider the coincidence that it just so happens to be your own you trust more. I wonder why that could be?

2. There is no "American dream" and there never was. This is why no one can adequately define it, or at least in the same way as any other person who's attempted to. The phrase never meant anything at all, they're just more buzzwords like "freedom" and "change" that politicians use to semantically manipulate people. It's jargon, ignore it. No one that I've talked to here takes the phrase very seriously and it's not like it comes up a lot in conversation even among die hard jingoists.

Speaking of which, I'm a little surprised and impressed that for once a thread on anything even vaguely related to the topic of America has made it two pages with--almost--no prejudice expressed toward the country. We are to nationality what Jews are to ethnicity: the only group that all kinds of bigots on the subject everywhere universally agree they hate. Except that I don't think even Jews are as spat upon just for being born the way they are as Americans. I'm just glad I'm not an American Jew!
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Futuwwa
06-24-2011, 07:09 PM
Uh, the American Dream is, or at least was, a very real motivator and driving idea. It's not particularly reality-based, but that doesn't stop people from believing in it and acting and behaving accordingly.
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May Ayob
06-24-2011, 07:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
Speaking of which, I'm a little surprised and impressed that for once a thread on anything even vaguely related to the topic of America has made it two pages with--almost--no prejudice expressed toward the country

Salaam
What do you mean ? Could you please clarify?
I would appreciate it.
Salaam.
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May Ayob
06-24-2011, 07:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
1. The American government does not have a monopoly on oppression and dishonesty so I would like it if people stopped talking as though it did.
Then why do they make all the speeches about "Universal Humanity" and "Santity of Life" "Freedom by all mean"
Why do they get themselves involved in pretty much everything that happens in this planet in the name of "Human Rights"
Don't you think they should be concerned with their own country, Rather than acting like big bully that decide what other countries have to do?
If you don't want us doing that - Then please tell your people to stop speaking about the so- called "American Value they posses and they can't seem to leave"
Salaam
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May Ayob
06-24-2011, 07:25 PM
By the way....
I didn't mean to offend you , I am merely expressing my thoughts ..
They maybe wrong , so please don't take as criticism or anything like that

Salaam
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GuestFellow
06-24-2011, 07:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by May Ayob
Then why do they make all the speeches about "Universal Humanity" and "Santity of Life" "Freedom by all mean"
Why do they get themselves involved in pretty much everything that happens in this planet in the name of "Human Rights"
Don't you think they should be concerned with their own country, Rather than acting like big bully that decide what other countries have to do?
If you don't want us doing that - Then please tell your people to stop speaking about the so- called "American Value they posses and they can't seem to leave"
Salaam
Salaam,

There is a lecture by Noam Chomsky on this.

US Imperialism

Some Americans and even some westerners that I've met have this belief that their "way of life" is best for everyone and understand how democracy works. This belief is deeply ingrained within society.

Noam Chomsky on Newsnight BBC

^ Here is a good demonstration. The belief that the west have some sort of obligation to help other people.

The American government simply exploits this belief in order to conquer other countries and behave like a tyrant. Most countries would do this if they were in a position of great power.
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IAmZamzam
06-24-2011, 07:57 PM
It's not that your thoughts are wrong, May: they're offensive because they're shooting the messenger. I don't have any people and neither do you. Neither does anyone. There's only the individual person.

If you're mad at a government then don't take it out on that country's populace. Do you think we're not bullied too? Ever hear of this thing called The Patriot Act?

This is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about with my last post!
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Who Am I?
06-24-2011, 08:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
Well, now that you are a Muslim, it would be appropriate if you stopped talking about "Socialism" as if it was a bad thing :)
Small steps, brother. Maybe I'll get there one day. But you can't undo 35 years of one way of thinking in just a few weeks. These things take time, inshallah.

I personally have been an advocate of isolationism when it comes to US foreign policy. I have never liked how we have to be the world's "democracy police" and run off to help some random obscure country to set up a democratic government because "they need freedom". Who says? Us? The West? The rest of the world? My mother?

If a nation wants to overthrow their own government, they should be allowed to do so without any intervention from anyone. I don't see where any nation has the right to intervene in another sovereign nation's affairs without permission to do so, and even then I'm not sure I would advocate intervention.

This attitude of arrogance and "we know what's best for you uncivilized savages, so we're here to help you" is precisely the main reason that the West (and the USA in particular) is so widely hated in most parts of the world, particularly the Islamic world. All you have to do is look at the legacy of colonialism in Africa and Asia to see what effects that kind of foreign policy has. In my opinion, the so-called "War on Terror" is just another form of colonialism, this time to exploit oil-rich nations who happen to be majority Islamic.

Apaprently, we really didn't learn anything from Vietnam...
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May Ayob
06-24-2011, 08:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
It's not that your thoughts are wrong, May: they're offensive because they're shooting the messenger
Salaam
I am sorry for it being Offensive , i truly am .. but as i said before i had nothing better to offer , I am not against the american people as that would be wrong but I am against the governments all of them except if they changed their ways and started looking at people as an equal to them i mean last time i heard Sarah Palin something like this:
We are the best nation and that is Nothing to apologize for...
Why would some one declaring such a statement ever care about people or their "rights"...

I wouldn't be taking any "Humanitarian" aid from America because i know they only do it for their interest , It's just that Arrogance is truly not something to deny... expecially Americas Arrogance and it's policy towards "Foreign people"

Also , let's be fair the same people America is bombing are the same people that work in labor for companys like Gap and American Eagle what do you expect me to say:
WOohoo America!? Sorry it wouldn;t coming out for me.





format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
don't have any people and neither do you. Neither does anyone. There's only the individual person.
True as i said before , I wouldn't have said that Except that i mean really isn't this the same way America Adresses the rest of the world there will hardly be any speech you listen from any of the country's Presidents without mention the typical "We Americans: :God bless America" .. Blah Blah Blah

Thank you for your Tolerance .. Didn't mean to offend you.
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May Ayob
06-24-2011, 08:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
^ Here is a good demonstration. The belief that the west have some sort of obligation to help other people. The American government simply exploits this belief in order to conquer other countries and behave like a tyrant. Most countries would do this if they were in a position of great power.

Salaam
I guess they want to make up for all the history of slavery and Darkness By ofcourse Bombing more of our countries..
Lets not forget of course Mother Dearest ...Hiroshima Atomic Bombing! :)

Yeah riight Give me a break
Salaam
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Who Am I?
06-24-2011, 08:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by May Ayob
Salaam
I guess they want to make up for all the history of slavery and Darkness By ofcourse Bombing more of our countries..
Lets not forget of course Mother Dearest ...Hiroshima Atomic Bombing! :)

Yeah riight Give me a break
Salaam
I may have to disagree with you about the atomic bombs dropped on Japan. It is still debated today over whether or not those bombs saved millions of lives on both sides. The Allies were contemplating an amphibious invasion of the main Japanese islands much like the operation in Normandy. Based on the invasions of the other Japanese islands, it was already known that the defending Japanese would fight to the last defender and not surrender when the situation became hopeless. A large-scale invasion of the main islands would have resulted in a bloodbath on both sides, probably in the millions, and would doubtless have included many innocent non-combatants.

Now other historians will argue that Japan was already beaten, but this is something that can and never will be proven. The debate will continue forever as to whether or not nuclear weapons were necessary. Unfortunately, that is the great legacy of WW2: the civilian as a casualty of war.

Yet another history nerd moment by yours truly...
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May Ayob
06-24-2011, 08:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
Do you think we're not bullied too
Salaam Again
Well , there is a great solution i think the American Government will accept:
How about going on strike or making a revolution as happened in the Middle East?
I am sure The Government will step down as "It is not legitimate anymore because the people are against it !"
I doubt that as the American Governmen has a double-standard view of everything Especially Politics :)
again , I am sorry Please Forgive me if I offended you.
Salaam
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May Ayob
06-24-2011, 08:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines
I may have to disagree with you about the atomic bombs dropped on Japan. It is still debated today over whether or not those bombs saved millions of lives on both sides. The Allies were contemplating an amphibious invasion of the main Japanese islands much like the operation in Normandy. Based on the invasions of the other Japanese islands, it was already known that the defending Japanese would fight to the last defender and not surrender when the situation became hopeless. A large-scale invasion of the main islands would have resulted in a bloodbath on both sides, probably in the millions, and would doubtless have included many innocent non-combatants.
Salam
You think? Or is it just a Justification for what they did so America Doesn't look so bad when asked about it?
Brother It completely Destructed live of millions of people .. Many painfully lost their loved ones ...
Think Again ..Not everything in History books are really what happened everyone write history according to their opinions ...It is never impartial

Salaam
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Who Am I?
06-24-2011, 08:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by May Ayob
Salaam Again
Well , there is a great solution i think the American Government will accept:
How about going on strike or making a revolution as happened in the Middle East?
I am sure The Government will step down as "It is not legitimate anymore because the people are against it !"
I doubt that as the American Governmen has a double-standard view of everything Especially Politics :)
again , I am sorry Please Forgive me if I offended you.
Salaam
The American people are too afraid of the government to start a revolution and demand change. Besides, far too many people here depend on the government for their basic necessities, and they don't want to do anything to upset that. Revolution will probably never happen unless the economy collapses completely and people stop getting a paycheck (which might acually happen in the next decade or so). As long as people get paid, they'll be content to do whatever the government tells them.
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Who Am I?
06-24-2011, 08:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by May Ayob
Salam
You think? Or is it just a Justification for what they did so America Doesn't look so bad when asked about it?
Brother It completely Destructed live of millions of people .. Many painfully lost their loved ones ...
Think Again ..Not everything in History books are really what happened everyone write history according to their opinions ...It is never impartial

Salaam
Well it might be, sure, I admit that. But I personally think it unlikely that Japan would have surrendered without the use of nuclear weapons. From the research I have done, that is my opinion.

But as I said, that is a debate that still goes on today and will always go on between students of WW2 history.

Salaam, sister.
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GuestFellow
06-24-2011, 09:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines
I may have to disagree with you about the atomic bombs dropped on Japan. It is still debated today over whether or not those bombs saved millions of lives on both sides.
Salaam,

America financed Hitler which changed my view on WW2.

http://reformed-theology.org/html/bo...eet/index.html

I suspect it was a revenge attack. After the bombings, America experimented on the Japanese civilians. When America has been attacked, it always takes extreme action. I believe the use of nuclear weapons can never be justified.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-24-2011, 09:25 PM
As'Salaamu Alaaykum

I have a Q...and my Q is..

Why is it called the 'American dream'? is there a 'British Dream' also? why not call it the 'The American and British dream'?
Sounds a lil lame to just call it 'American Dream'..dont u think?

anyways on a serious note:

format_quote Originally Posted by truthseeker63
Is the American Dream to get Rich/Wealthy or to be Middle Class ? In my opinion I would love to be Rich or Wealthy Capitalism promotes the idea that we can all be Rich one day.
To your first Q, yes I believe it is..

But remember being rich isnt completely a bad thing..

Allaah SWT does give us wealth, remember Allaah mentions in his noble book he shall us test is with many things, wealth is one amongst them things..

You shall certainly be tried and tested in your wealth and properties and in your personal selves, and you shall certainly hear much that will grieve you from those who received the Scripture before you (Jews and Christians) and from those who ascribe partners to Allah, but if you persevere patiently, and become Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2) then verily, that will be a determining factor in all affairs, and that is from the great matters, [which you must hold on with all your efforts]. [Al Qur'aan 2:186]

So we must not be greedy, we must learn to be just and sincere and kind..to help out those in need etc.
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IAmZamzam
06-25-2011, 12:15 AM
May, it was my fault for flying off the handle but I don't like people referring to entire countries as personified monolithic wholes because it is a large part of precisely what allows, and even causes, the kind of stereotypes I've been talking about. As I've already discussed here, far from being a trivial nitpick there is nothing in the world more mind-controlling to human nature than simple semantics. I doubt very much that there would have been nearly as much irrational hatred toward innocent members of the German populace during World War II had people not been talking about Hitler's war efforts as what "the Germans" were doing.

The American people are three hundred million different individuals, between us every possible viewpoint and political affiliation, and I personally would sooner step off a cliff than into a voting box. As for Sarah Palin, she has become very much a running gag for making statements like the one you quoted, the most common general attitude here being that she's too ridiculous to be taken seriously enough to offend.

If you mean the American government, say "the American government". If you mean the American military, say "the American military". I will not be included in the activities of either party, even with mere wording, just because I happen to live within the same set of imaginary lines as them.

As our writer Kurt Vonnegut said, the one thing above all people learned from Vietnam is that no matter how much protest there is the government still will not care what its people think it should do. And good luck trying to get three hundred million different people anywhere in the world to agree enough on anything to go on strike.
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IAmZamzam
06-25-2011, 12:24 AM
Of course there have been people who have called the a-bomb dropping justified, King of Nines, what do you expect? There's nothing in this world so obviously heinous and uncalled for that people will not still defend it if it's done in the name of something they think they believe in. Who on earth ever would do such an extreme thing as destroying entire cities without making up some ridiculous excuse, and why?
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Muslim Woman
06-25-2011, 12:49 AM
Salaam / Peace


format_quote Originally Posted by truthseeker63
I would love to be Rich

I want to be rich but not in exchange with hereafter i.e if wealth is good for my this life & the next world , then yap :)
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Who Am I?
06-25-2011, 04:26 AM
:sl:

Well, I wasn't expecting the opposition that I have found regarding my comments on the A-bomb. I'm still not sure I agree with you, but as I said, that is a debate that will never end. I will respect your opinions and leave it at that.

Anyway, as far as Hitler being financed by the USA, at first, yes, a re-armed and rebuilt Germany was seen as a buffer against the Soviet Union, which was seen as the "Evil Empire" until Hitler invaded Poland. It was thought that Germany and the Soviet Union would wage war for Europe while the UK and USA sat and watched.

Only when Hitler invaded Poland (whose territorial integrity had been guaranteed by France and the UK) did Nazi Germany become the bad guys, and when Germany invaded the Soviet Union, they (begrudgingly) became an ally as well.
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May Ayob
06-25-2011, 10:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
May, it was my fault for flying off the handle but I don't like people referring to entire countries as personified monolithic wholes because it is a large part of precisely what allows, and even causes, the kind of stereotypes I've been talking about. As I've already discussed here, far from being a trivial nitpick there is nothing in the world more mind-controlling to human nature than simple semantics. I doubt very much that there would have been nearly as much irrational hatred toward innocent members of the German populace during World War II had people not been talking about Hitler's war efforts as what "the Germans" were doing. The American people are three hundred million different individuals, between us every possible viewpoint and political affiliation, and I personally would sooner step off a cliff than into a voting box. As for Sarah Palin, she has become very much a running gag for making statements like the one you quoted, the most common general attitude here being that she's too ridiculous to be taken seriously enough to offend.
Salaam
Okay, so Non-"Americans" (like me) should be careful when using the word "Americans" and should be using qoutes between the word so as not to mix up between the people and their government, because i am basically being unjust and I am demeaning the people for something that they did not choose ( that is them being "Americans") -- I didn't know that i was the founder of Apartheid.

I must also add qoutation when i say the "American Government" or the "American Military" because they don't represent the American populace am i correct? Then what are the Officials of that Government? Did not the "American people" elect them?
And if they are not , what are they then aliens from outer space?
I many be living in a different planet.

Don't take me seriously , i was merely expressing my thoughts with a sense of humor( which i am not good at), The above as well was not meant to offend you or any one else.
You are right , i 'think' i agree with most of what you said , it is biased to be attacking the people for something that they might have nothing to do with , they may not be acknowledging what" the American Government" is doing in their name , I promise you i will make good effort into implementing your advice when addressing America and it's people ---I would also expect the same from people that happen to be living in that Imaginary line.

We are all human beings so I apologize if my words have hurt any one who happens to be from that continent and was offended by what i said.

I might have misunderstood some of your previous posts as well , would you care to explain to me what you mean by "Shooting the messenger" because i have failed to understand this phrase as i am no good with Idioms

Salaam
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May Ayob
06-25-2011, 10:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines
Well, I wasn't expecting the opposition that I have found regarding my comments on the A-bomb. I'm still not sure I agree with you, but as I said, that is a debate that will never end. I will respect your opinions and leave it at that. Anyway, as far as Hitler being financed by the USA, at first, yes, a re-armed and rebuilt Germany was seen as a buffer against the Soviet Union, which was seen as the "Evil Empire" until Hitler invaded Poland. It was thought that Germany and the Soviet Union would wage war for Europe while the UK and USA sat and watched. Only when Hitler invaded Poland (whose territorial integrity had been guaranteed by France and the UK) did Nazi Germany become the bad guys, and when Germany invaded the Soviet Union, they (begrudgingly) became an ally as well.


Salaam
Do you see how you are speaking of a predicted future that never happened? Historian might as well just work as foretellers if this is the case...
Nice way to make excuses for the criminal; would you like my following scenario?:
I wouldn't have killed the child , had i not known that he was going to be a criminal in the future.. thus by killing him i saved him from the evil of his self and protected the people around him from being hurt in the future..
It never happened , i doubt it was ever going to have, The same "Government" could have stopped many evils things that harm humanity at that time , but no they didn't find something more usefull than to bomb a city that has absolutely nothing to do with the war..
I may have to disagree with you , but i also have to respect your opinion , Please keep in mind that with out making effort of speech sympathy towards the victims , i might as well say that if i was an ethnic Japanese from the region i would have considered the fact that my soul and the soul of my people has absolutely no value at all, this is why it is thought to be acceptable when a country such as "America" makes up such excuses it doesn't even make effort in making them realistic let alone acceptable by anyone , because it knows that the International Security Council will never bring it to "Justice"

Didn't mean to offend you as well
Salaam
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GuestFellow
06-25-2011, 11:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines

Anyway, as far as Hitler being financed by the USA, at first, yes, a re-armed and rebuilt Germany was seen as a buffer against the Soviet Union, which was seen as the "Evil Empire" until Hitler invaded Poland. It was thought that Germany and the Soviet Union would wage war for Europe while the UK and USA sat and watched.

Only when Hitler invaded Poland (whose territorial integrity had been guaranteed by France and the UK) did Nazi Germany become the bad guys, and when Germany invaded the Soviet Union, they (begrudgingly) became an ally as well.
:sl:

The Soviet Union was financed by America too. There are three very detailed books on this:

  • Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development: 1917–1930 (1968)
  • Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development: 1930–1945 (1971)
  • Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development: 1945–1965 (1973)


They are all written by Athony C Sutton. There is a small online version, explaining Wall Street role behind the Bolshevik Revolution.

WALL STREET AND THE BOLSHEVIK REVOLUTION

In a nutshell, America financed both sides.
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IAmZamzam
06-25-2011, 11:56 AM
You apologize too much, my dear. Although your question

Did not the "American people" elect them?
does sound suspiciously like the most cliched excuse for blaming an entire country on what its government does, that "they" (as though it were automatically by unanimous decision!) "voted for these people". I don't vote, and when it comes to Bush, Jr., for example, the answer is certainly "no". He just stole the election. Try to imagine someone speaking ill of everyone in the entire court system because the corrupt current chief justice was voted into office, so "they're" all to blame as "they" voted for him. Even if the vote was 55%-45% and for all you know you're talking to one of the people who either didn't vote or voted against him. The existence of democracy is apparently all it ever takes to make people pretend to themselves that everyone can be blamed for the actions of a small few. It's also been used as the argument of military people (and not just from America) massacring civilians willy nilly. "They live here, they voted for this tyrant, if they hadn't let him into power then there wouldn't have been a problem. I say kill them all."

I know you're not advocating killing and you're probably not even genuinely prejudiced, but girl you really need to watch what you say! Fewer apologies and fewer reasons to have to make them is the better formula, isn't it? I'm not trying to get on your case; it may not sound like it but I'm actually addressing this to everyone because this is a very common problem and one more of the reasons why anti-American prejudice, and prejudice in general, runs so rampant. The bigots of the world do need their excuses.
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IAmZamzam
06-25-2011, 12:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by May Ayob
Do you see how you are speaking of a predicted future that never happened? Historian might as well just work as foretellers if this is the case...Nice way to make excuses for the criminal; would you like my following scenario?: I wouldn't have killed the child , had i not known that he was going to be a criminal in the future.. thus by killing him i saved him from the evil of his self and protected the people around him from being hurt in the future...
Don't forget: that scenario did happen once (surah, 18, verses 74-81). The difference is: Harry Truman was not a prophet of God.
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IAmZamzam
06-25-2011, 12:08 PM
"Shoot the messenger": Western colloquialism meaning "to scold, or take out your resentment on, a person who is merely telling you about something offensive being done and is not the offending party themselves".
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Trumble
06-25-2011, 12:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by May Ayob
You think? Or is it just a Justification for what they did so America Doesn't look so bad when asked about it?
No. Nobody has seriously disputed the likely casualty figures (civilian and military) had the Allies actually invaded Japan, least of all the Japanese themselves.

The relevant question is whether either was necessary. The simple answer in hindsight (which shouldn't be forgotten) is no.


format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines
Government has lost sight of what it is really supposed to do. The original framers of the US Constitution only intended for limited government, and its original purpose was to protect the rights of its citizens, not to tell the citizens what their rights are and to control every aspect of their lives. The government should not be making your decisions for you, but sadly there are far too many people now who rely on the government to tell them what to do in their lives. Our founding fathers would weep at what we as a nation have become.
What is government "really supposed to do"? Political philosophy has moved on since then. What is essentially a libertarian position is still a perfectly defensible one, but it seems rather foolish for the nation to commit itself to a particular model because that's what the founding fathers wanted (in the absence of the most popular alternatives). They are long dead, and the times in which they lived are long gone.

format_quote Originally Posted by truthseeker63
In western capitalist countries their taxation penalises the poor and vulnerable in society. Clever accounting and offshore Swiss bank accounts ensure the rich in western societies can avoid paying the majority of taxes altogether. In the UK for example, the Queen is one of the richest people in Britain yet she pays no income tax, whereas a poor single mother or an old age pensioner must pay income tax.
Both single mothers and pensioners need pay income only if their income exceeds a certain threshold. Most that could be described as poor are provided for by state benefits, anyway, so they are net gainers from the taxation system. The Queen has actually paid income tax for some years, albeit it by voluntary arrangement. She is not a legitimate example for the claim being made due to her constitutional position as Head of State, and any tax she pays is theoretically paid to herself! It doesn't work like that in practice, of course, but paying tax still amounts to no more than a PR exercise. Fortunately, the rich haven't been able to avoid paying the 'majority of taxes' due to clever accounting and offshore accounting for many years, if indeed they ever could. Not that some of it doesn't go on, of course, but the system is geared to preventing such abuse, not enabling it.
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May Ayob
06-25-2011, 12:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
Don't forget: that scenario did happen once (surah, 18, verses 74-81). The difference is: Harry Truman was not a prophet of God.
Salaam
Thank you for the reminder, but i didn't mean it in that way...Astaghfur Allah
I was saying that it isn't hard to find it normal when the "American Government" finds it "hard" to politely apologize to the citizens of Hiroshima for their disturbance and interrupt of their "peace"..
I also meant that to foretell something is going to happen without evidence or certitude and act or in this case " destruct" upon isn't a very wise decision especially if "America" needs more labor people from Africa and South East Asia to boost up it's Economy as it is infamous that the "American Economy" depends on Labor Industrialization.
Salaam
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May Ayob
06-25-2011, 12:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
No. Nobody has seriously disputed the likely casualty figures (civilian and military) had the Allies actually invaded Japan, least of all the Japanese themselves. The relevant question is whether either was necessary. The simple answer in hindsight (which shouldn't be forgotten) is no.

I agree , and about that Bombing I thought i read that the "President of America" at that time literally said that the bomb was only thrown to show "America's Power and Soverignty"
It is hard for me to believe what brother King of Nines had said.
Peace be to you
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May Ayob
06-25-2011, 12:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
"Shoot the messenger": Western colloquialism meaning "to scold, or take out your resentment on, a person who is merely telling you about something offensive being done and is not the offending party themselves".

Thank you again for that , if you mean TruthSeeker, I wasn't really shooting the messenger ..I was just commenting on what he posted about civil rights and Equality..."All men are equal on behalf of their Creator"
I am deeply interested in seeing these beautifull laws being implemented in our planet that's all.

Salaam
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Trumble
06-25-2011, 12:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pєαяℓ σf Wιѕ∂σм
As'Salaamu Alaaykum

I have a Q...and my Q is..

Why is it called the 'American dream'? is there a 'British Dream' also? why not call it the 'The American and British dream'? Sounds a lil lame to just call it 'American Dream'..dont u think?
The 'American Dream' and the British one are very different indeed... why do you think they had a Revolution in the first place?!

At least the American Dream is pretty much intact. Of the two, the British was the only one that ever involved colonialism and spreading 'culture' and 'civilization' across the globe, and that dream started to die in the trenches of WW1. It was dead halfway through the last century. The only recognisable English (as opposed to British) dream is to win the World Cup again!
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May Ayob
06-25-2011, 12:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
I don't vote, and when it comes to Bush, Jr., for example, the answer is certainly "no". He just stole the election.
So long for Democracy and it's Protectors :)

format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
so "they're" all to blame as "they" voted for him. Even if the vote was 55%-45% and for all you know you're talking to one of the people who either didn't vote or voted against him. The existence of democracy is apparently all it ever takes to make people pretend to themselves that everyone can be blamed for the actions of a small few
Yes you are correct , Generalizing is not good as i would be unjustly accuse innocent people for something that is out of their hands. Believ me i am not innocent of it my self.

format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
Fewer apologies and fewer reasons to have to make them is the better formula, isn't it? I'm not trying to get on your case
You never did, but i don't see why? How would it make " the formula better" , Care to explain?

Thank you for your tolerance

Salaam
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IAmZamzam
06-25-2011, 05:01 PM
You think? Not if all the street is shouting : "USA USA USA USA"
Because "America's Enemy" which happens to be a forgeiner , which also happens to be the enemy of "World" is dead.
I thought "Americans" just Love "America" Don' they?? I mean isn't it the Land of Gold?
Beside i don't think resigning from my job if i am faced with such a situation( an i already have millions of dollars in my bank account) would be that hard , would it?
Congratulations, May, you have finally succeeded in genuinely offending me and getting me on your case for real. Dressing up stereotypes in polite, gentle words and constantly covering yourself by saying that you're hoping not to offend does not change a flipping thing in regards to what you're still doing, and all the quotation marks in history won't do a danged thing either. You're not fooling anyone, you're just blowing hot and cold with the same breath. I didn't think the entire Middle East was in favor of the 9/11 attacks after I saw footage of one street in celebration because of it because unlike you I bothered to use my gray matter instead of letting my anger lead me to frame people as guilty by association due to a mere shared nationality. I am done trying to open your mind, which is impossible until you start being honest with yourself about your own bigotry, and until the day when you see me, the one individual person talking to you right now, standing in the street and shouting "USA! USA!" you have no right to put me on the defensive for things other people have done, especially since I'll bet you wouldn't want people talking the same way to you about anything wrong your own country's government has ever done. Don't be grateful for the tolerance of others if you're not willing to show any yourself.

EDIT: I accidentally pressed enter mid-note while deducting reputation from you so let me finish it here instead: you want a formula? Here's a formula.

Condescending overgeneralizations + euphemisms + quotation marks + apologies = condescending overgeneralizations
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May Ayob
06-25-2011, 08:50 PM
Salaam

format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
Congratulations, May, you have finally succeeded in genuinely offending me and getting me on your case for real.

No , you should say shame on you, I didn't know that the above comment was going to intimidate you to this extent.

format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
Dressing up stereotypes in polite, gentle words and constantly covering yourself by saying that you're hoping not to offend does not change a flipping thing in regards to what you're still doing, and all the quotation marks in history won't do a danged thing either
I didn't know that i was a hypocrite ....:( that's sad ..
You should have pity for me as if i was sentenced to be so no one can be saving me from Hell Fire, not get mad or be offend by my comments.
I thought qoutations do make a difference ...

format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
You're not fooling anyone, you're just blowing hot and cold with the same breath.
I didn't mean to fool anyone... I was merely exchange my points of view... I you don't like my comments this much i assure you i will be editing it and saying something better.


format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
I didn't think the entire Middle East was in favor of the 9/11 attacks after I saw footage of one street in celebration because of it
Why the Middle East? Why not the Islamic World .. You know Arabs only make 20% of overall Muslims..at least that's what statistics say..


format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
because unlike you I bothered to use my gray matter instead of letting my anger lead me to frame people as guilty by association due to a mere shared nationality.
May be my grey matter is too thick, Did you ever consider that? I assure you i am not angry at all ... My above comment was nothing but another attempt to use "sense of Humor" but i knew things like that never would work for me as it would make misunderstandings .What more did you expect from a stereotypical, generalzing "anti-American" freak?


format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
. I am done trying to open your mind, which is impossible until you start being honest with yourself about your own bigotry
Patience my brother, is one of the most important qualities a teacher should posses , I am not against you trying to open my mind about this issue but you have to realise undoing "opinions" of other people is quite a hard thing. About my self you are correct i do need to start being honest with my self.. I hope God helps me to do so.


format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
and until the day when you see me, the one individual person talking to you right now, standing in the street and shouting "USA! USA!"
May God forbid that from ever happening , I have a good opinion about you , I hope to never see you nor any one else irrationally calling for Patriotrism. :)

format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
you have no right to put me on the defensive for things other people have done
Yes you are right, I am sorry if i acted like a bully and took advantage of your nationality.


format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
especially since I'll bet you wouldn't want people talking the same way to you about anything wrong your own country's government has ever done

I assure you I am by all mean an Anti-Patriotic person , I do not support the Government of the country which i happen to come from , it is accused of many Horrific crimes against it's people , nor do i have any support for the " people of "my" country" there is enough in the culture and Society that would make me willingly denounce my nationality or belonging to it.. I do not see at all that i belong to any country in this planet , nor Do i believe in " countries" or Patriotism. I never celebrate or participate in National days and honestly i didn't touch "my" country's flag since i was 8 years old.
As for your Question : It depend i don;t really think i will actually be offended if someone has " accused me " of being responsible for what "my" country has done because i simply do not recognize it as "my" country...

format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
Don't be grateful for the tolerance of others if you're not willing to show any yourself.
This is wonderfull indeed, Can i qoute this?, May i use it as a Proverb?
Masha' Allah you seem to have been gifted with words.


format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
EDIT: I accidentally pressed enter mid-note while deducting reputation from you so let me finish it here instead: you want a formula? Here's a formula.
Do as you like , reputation points shouldn't matter anyway.


format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
Condescending overgeneralizations + euphemisms + quotation marks + apologies = condescending overgeneralizations

Thank you i didn't know most of the definition of the words you used .. I used a dictionary , so thank you for increasing my vocabulary.. By the way .. I think you are right you are not the only one who told me in this forum that I am generalizer, I think i have to change my ways .. But i have to admit it isn't going to be easy because i am a stubborn person.

I am sorry for real , I think we should sort this out I need to be more considerate towards you feelings and you need to have a little more Patience with me
Did we reach an agreement? Are we at peace?

P.s- What do you think of Republicans? ...another joke
Please don't reply as I am no good in Politics this is why I choose the Medical field.

Salaam
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IAmZamzam
06-25-2011, 09:31 PM
Of course we're at peace, May, and I'm as to blame for overreacting as you are for doing any of those things. Although I will still have to take it that "intimidate" is another word you're not 100% on. Perhaps you meant "irritate". To answer your questions, though--or at least the ones that don't seem rhetorical:

Why the Middle East? Why not the Islamic World .. You know Arabs only make 20% of overall Muslims..at least that's what statistics say..
I couldn't remember which country that street was in and since the analogy already involved a large area and group being blamed for what smaller ones did I figured I may as well go ahead and say the whole Middle East. The news media was actually more or less trying to push that specific idea.

This is wonderfull indeed, Can i qoute this?, May i use it as a Proverb? Masha' Allah you seem to have been gifted with words.
Or course you may.

Listen, self-dishonesty is the most universal trait in the world. It's the fuel of all sin, and therefore probably the only sin that's automatically universal. I have paid the price, perhaps, in focusing too much on my own machine's fuel level by letting it run while I check it. I'm not a negative person, I just have a problem with repetition and routine. I made a resolultion to that end to stop doing anything on the board that doesn't directly involve dawah but old habits are so hard to kill and without thinking I keep clicking on links to threads whose titles pique me. Really, this whole dang this is all my fault in the end for being here at all.
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Tyrion
06-25-2011, 09:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
I made a resolultion to that end to stop doing anything on the board that doesn't directly involve dawah but old habits are so hard to kill and without thinking I keep clicking on links to threads whose titles pique me. Really, this whole dang this is all my fault in the end for being here at all.
A lot of the things you've said here really needed to be said, so it's good that you clicked on the thread to say them...
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Who Am I?
06-26-2011, 04:21 AM
Alright, so apparently I said some things that offended people. I'm not used to that. I normally don't participate in these type of discussions and I keep my thoughts to myself for precisely that reason. I don't like to offend anyone. I don't want to be known as a "typical arrogant Yank". It makes me feel bad as a Muslim and as a human.

I should have known better, but my inner history nerd and my USA patriotism got the better of me. Next time I will know better, I promise.

In short, I apologize to anyone I have offended, and I will make my not so graceful exit from this thread stage left.

Salaam, brothers and sisters.
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GuestFellow
06-26-2011, 10:38 AM
^ Salaam,

You didn't offend me. :/
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SFatima
06-26-2011, 03:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Riana17
American dream is not ideal

Funny thing I am scared to be rich and if I will be given a chance to choose, I want to be middle class forever :D

I've already experience it all, when my income was (lets say) 10$ and now I am getting 10x of that at age of 25, nothing change in me. The way I dress, the food I eat, I still like to go by bus rather than taxi if husband is not available. It is where I find happiness in living with simplicity. Many of my batch strive to get huge house, 1 or two, but I always say that, Big house is harram if nobody will live.

Maybe it is bcoz I came from a poor family, besides I am preparing myself in case Allah take all the wealth we have. Inshallah not but I am not so afraid to be poor again.
MashAllah , may everyone have this outlook on the life of this world, and may we learn the value of this worldly life as is, in the eyes of Allah swt,which is like " a dead defected decaying calf".

"I have nothing to do with this world. The parable of me and this world is like a rider who rests in the shade of a tree, then he passes on and leaves it." Hazrat Muhammad Saww (Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah)
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truthseeker63
06-26-2011, 04:39 PM
Thank You to all for your posts.
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May Ayob
06-27-2011, 12:16 PM
Salaam

format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
Of course we're at peace, May, and I'm as to blame for overreacting as you are for doing any of those thing
AlHamdulilah, thank you. You're just being Humble , there is nothing to blame you for because it is obvious who was doing the wrong thing--Me.


format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
I'm not a negative person, I just have a problem with repetition and routine. I made a resolultion to that end to stop doing anything on the board that doesn't directly involve dawah but old habits are so hard to kill and without thinking I keep clicking on links to threads whose titles pique me. Really, this whole dang this is all my fault in the end for being here at all.
I never thought/ or had the impression that you are a negative person. Nor was I offended by any of your posts. And actually I have to thank you because you saved me in one way or another from hurting any of the 300 million people that happen to be living in the Imaginary Line you happen to be living in, that is if I met any in the future .. So Just like brother Tyrion had said you did say somethings that needed to be said.. Jazak Allahu Kahir

Sorry for the late reply.
Salaam
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May Ayob
06-27-2011, 12:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines
Alright, so apparently I said some things that offended people. I'm not used to that. I normally don't participate in these type of discussions and I keep my thoughts to myself for precisely that reason. I don't like to offend anyone. I don't want to be known as a "typical arrogant Yank". It makes me feel bad as a Muslim and as a human. I should have known better, but my inner history nerd and my USA patriotism got the better of me. Next time I will know better, I promise. In short, I apologize to anyone I have offended, and I will make my not so graceful exit from this thread stage left. Salaam, brothers and sisters.

Salaam Brother Kind of Nines
You are not serious , are you? Beleive me All that I have said regarding that former post was not meant to be a reaction of Offense at all , I'll explain:
- I wanted to say that I thought History was supposed to teach us about the Past.. not the future.. That's all.
-The Scenario I gave was a terrible one .. and I think it resulted into me falling into a sin.
- What I meant by regarding how i would feel as a Ethnic Japanese from the region ..Even though it may not seem like it but i was trying to remind my self and others (pretty much everyone) that we should all atleast put some sympathitic speech when we are discussing sensitive Political Issues .. That's All
I am the one here who probably offended you so I am sorry for that . Please accept my apologies for the mis-understandings.


format_quote Originally Posted by truthseeker63
Thank You to all for your posts.

You are welcome :)
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GuestFellow
06-27-2011, 01:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by May Ayob
- I wanted to say that I thought History was supposed to teach us about the Past.. not the future.. That's all.
:sl:

History can also give us an idea what might happen in the future, if you have knowledge about current affairs.
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Mister Agenda
06-27-2011, 01:36 PM
I know it's a little pedantic, but quotes for 'American People' to show that their will isn't unanimous or necessarily reflected in the action of their government is appropriate. Usually no quotes needed for American Military or American Government.

Our system is corrupted because special interests spend millions of dollars to influence our politicians. Even if it isn't outright bribery, it's hard not to be influenced by such efforts. Election campaigns in the USA are very expensive, even if there is no tit-for-tat, a politician whose election fund had very generous contributions from, say, military contractors, is likely to feel beholden to them and if he acts against their interests had better think about how his re-election campaign is going to be financed.

Various laws have been aimed at reforming the process, but their flaw is that they miss the root of the problem: our legislators and other politicians have too much influence over how resources are distributed for big companies and other well-heeled special interests NOT to try to throw considerable resources into influencing our legislative process. They have a huge incentive to figure out ways around laws restricting their access. Unless we restrict their power to change the tax code on a whim and select which contractors are hired, we will continue to have the tail wagging the dog: the government being run for the interests of the politicians instead of the people.

Another factor in the equation is the state-of-the-art propaganda machine used to get popular support for wars. When our 'leaders' want us to go to war, any incident is exagerrated as an excuse; when they don't want us to go to war, no provocation is enough. When I was arguing against the Iraq War I heard everything from 'the president must know what he's doing' to 'they shouldn't have attacked us'. The latter particularly made me want to scream, because whatever really happened, we weren't attacked by the countries Afghanistan and Iraq (or Libya or Yemen or Somalia or Pakistan). We were attacked by terrorists. Much as we wanted to strike out and 'get even' it was a matter for police action not military invasion. It was also an opportunity to reflect on how our policies in the Middle East had contributed to our problems there. Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul spoke out on this, the other candidates used the 'blame America' slogan to marginalize him. It doesn't pay for politicians to speak out against the policies of our government.

End of rant.
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SFatima
06-27-2011, 03:51 PM
Agree with the above post .

p.s your avatar is giving me strained eyes hehe :uuh:
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Mister Agenda
06-27-2011, 09:17 PM
LOL, I may be starting to get tired of it myself.
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