Pakistan soldiers 'gun down unarmed man'‎

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

Investigation under way after footage surfaces of alleged killing of unarmed man by five Karachi soldiers.

This makes me sick and furious. Those rangers are disgusting...

Chairman of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, Zohra Yusuf, said the country had descended into a "trigger-happy society where shoot-to-kill has become routine practice for the law enforcement agencies".

These barbaric soldiers and rangers ought to be shot and left to rot. Bunch of uncontrolled savage beasts.

I cannot begin to imagine the pain the victim's family is going through...

[Woodrow]

Sometime, in fact too often, military and law enforcement people use excess force.

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Inna lillaahi wa inna ilaayhi raji'oon

this is soo sad , and all else happening in the world with those innocent civillians..
They are cowards, they have power and use it and do no justice to anyone..

Those who show no mercy will not be shown mercy! Not to forget his justice remains with the most mercyful..

[Haya emaan]

Inna lillaahi wa inna ilaayhi raji'oon

this news is really very disturbing
i cant watch that video i dont have heart to do that..

killing innocent people has become just like killing ants and insects today

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[GuestFellow]

^ Salaam,

Best not to watch the video. It is very upsetting. I can't believe no one helped him. I felt helpless watching him suffer.

[marwen]

just saw it on euronews. I'm really shocked ! May Allah give shahada to this killed brother.
I don't know what to say. I saw videos about syrian soldiers yesterday, and I mean what's wrong with many people these days ? Some regimes are going crazy and I think these "faux pas" made by their agents are signs of the end of these regimes of oppression.

[GuestFellow]

I mean what's wrong with many people these days ?

:sl:

I have no idea. I read an article about a 13 Syrian boy who was found dead, medical experts claim he was tortured to death.

What baffles me is that the people responsible for these crimes are Muslims. Don't they understand that killing innocent civilians is against Islam? It is distressing to see Muslims kill other Muslims.

I'm still having a difficult time forgetting about this poor guy being shot down.

[ardianto]

Sometime, in fact too often, military and law enforcement people use excess force.

........ and extra judicial, like in this case.

It's started when someone stole something from a police family. Actually this is an ordinary crime and this is under police investigator authority, not under paramilitary police authority. But we have seen, Pakistan Ranger arrested and kill him.

I guess, the stealing case victim -police family- did not report it officially to police investigator, but request a Pakistan Ranger commander to "give a lesson" to that accused person.

I don't know how is in America, but in Indonesia, case like this sometime or often happened, at least during Soeharto era. Someone made a trouble to military family. The victim did not report it to police, but requested a military commander to "give a lesson" to that accused person.

[tigerkhan]

one request which i am mentioning time by time to all members, PLEASE dont not blv media esp news about pakistan...
some one told me that this boy was a taget killer of MQM...even if so it was not justified but i mean there are much more behind the screen.

[yas2010]

May Allah(swt) grant mercy on this poor man.

We must remember that one day we will all be asked to account for our actions in the court of Allah(swt) who is the All knowing and the MOST merciful. The day of Qiyamah when an 'atom of good' will be accounted for and an 'atom of bad'. May Allah(swt) guide us all.

JazakAllah Khair/ Peace

[Ansariyah]

He begged them to take him to a hospital they just watched as he died. May Allah destroy these savages, and grant the brotha martyrdom ameen.

[waji]

What happened was totally wrong.
I think this is a kind of problem that is arising with Pakistani Armed Forces.
They are getting tired of long and hard duties in the Field.

But on the other hand no body praises those who gave their life for others
like Yesterday a Guard of the Bank in Islamabad got Shahadat by stopping a suicide bomber getting in the Bank
Only Two people died (One was suicide Bomber and other was Guard) and few where injured.

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

Seven men, six of them soldiers, have appeared in a Pakistani anti-terrorism court in connection with the killing of an

^ UPDATE

[Endymion]

:sl:

Seven men, six of them soldiers, have appeared in a Pakistani anti-terrorism court in connection with the killing of an

^ UPDATE

Guest Fellow,do you have any idea you are not helping the case,instead,you are making it more difficult for people to understand what exactly going on in Pakistan.The video people keep on posting here and there was an edited version.The real case is that the boy was a dacoit,snatching mobiles from people.I am not saying this gave the rangers "Licence to kill" but it was an individual act of some people,not the whole Military forces and not all the people of Pakistan are like that but posting such individual acts here and there made people start on the whole nation.I request you to wait for the real story to come out.Real story might change your views about the boy somehow but till that time come,things like that will hurt the image of whole country badly.
Remember these are individual acts,can be happen any where and good and bad people found every where on Earth.One should be careful about discussing such issues in Public forums coz it involves the whole Nation.

[GuestFellow]

Guest Fellow,do you have any idea you are not helping the case,instead,you are making it more difficult for people to understand what exactly going on in Pakistan.

Then you can start explaining. Make it easier for us to understand what is going on in Pakistan. How have I made it difficult for people to understand what is exactly going on in Pakistan?

The video people keep on posting here and there was an edited version.

How? Please, present evidence for this too.

The real case is that the boy was a dacoit,snatching mobiles from people.

Do you have evidence for this?

I am not saying this gave the rangers "Licence to kill" but it was an individual act of some people,not the whole Military forces and not all the people of Pakistan are like that but posting such individual acts here and there made people start on the whole
nation.

I never said these rangers represented entire military forces. From my understanding, these rangers are part of the Paramilitary forces of Pakistan.

I'm well aware not all people of Pakistan are like that. My family has come from Pakistan and I have visited Pakistan as well.

I don't understand what the part that I put in bold. Please elaborate.

I request you to wait for the real story to come out. Real story might change your views about the boy somehow but till that time come,

I'm open to hearing new stories. For now I will continue to post updates.

things like that will hurt the image of whole country badly.

You have those rangers to blame for the country's tarnished image...however, the country's image should not be Pakistan's main objective. The Pakistani government should tackle poverty and corruption. Besides, Pakistan reputation has already been tarnished by the western media.

Remember these are individual acts,can be happen any where and good and bad people found every where on Earth.One should be careful about discussing such issues in Public forums coz it involves the whole Nation.

I'm well aware these are individual acts and can happen anywhere. In Britain, the police forces have used excessive force against protesters too at times.

[Ramadhan]

I agree that this kind of brutality can happen anywhere. Anyone still remember those cops in NY and LA who were caught on video brutalizing people they think were criminals? And we know from the stories that the basis of those police brutality was racism.

In Indonesia too, there were many occurrences where thieves who were caught red handed were being brutalized (although no gun or death involved) instead of being handed over to the police for detaining. However, alhamdulillah, these kinds of things seem to happen less and less along with improving education if not perception of justice.
In my opinion, this kind of cases (where people taking justice in their own hand) is a symptom of society who don't trust the judicial system to be be able to serve justice. And it also a symptom of the pent up frustration over institutionalized injustice and/or unfairness. I am not saying that this is what is happening in Pakistan, but I am basing this with situation in Indonesia.

Also, from the story, those six people who brutalized the man are from paramilitary, who normally do not receive proper training on how to handle criminals.

[Ramadhan]

As far as I know, paramilitary are normally used by the military or people in power to do the dirty work, so they are normally conditioned to flout human rights or even human lives in their operations.

[Ansariyah]

Guest Fellow,do you have any idea you are not helping the case,instead,you are making it more difficult for people to understand what exactly going on in Pakistan.The video people keep on posting here and there was an edited version.The real case is that the boy was a dacoit,snatching mobiles from people.I am not saying this gave the rangers "Licence to kill" but it was an individual act of some people,not the whole Military forces and not all the people of Pakistan are like that but posting such individual acts here and there made people start on the whole nation.I request you to wait for the real story to come out.Real story might change your views about the boy somehow but till that time come,things like that will hurt the image of whole country badly.
Remember these are individual acts,can be happen any where and good and bad people found every where on Earth.One should be careful about discussing such issues in Public forums coz it involves the whole Nation.

May Allah destroy all those rangers, all of the ones who were involved. Ameen.

I can't believe that you are trying to make those rangers look like they have done a noble deed and that you are going so far to accuse the innocent dead boy without proof.

We don't give a daym about any countries Image, we care about a Muslim soul that was butchered. Wheres your heart?

May Allah grant that boy Jannah, and expose, humiliate those who feast on the weak ameen.

[ardianto]

As far as I know, paramilitary are normally used by the military or people in power to do the dirty work, so they are normally conditioned to flout human rights or even human lives in their operations.

Pakistan Ranger is not civilian paramilitary like Aitarak, but paramilitary police like Indonesian Brimob or Philippine Constabulary.

[Ramadhan]

Pakistan Ranger is not civilian paramilitary like Aitarak, but paramilitary police like Indonesian Brimob or Philippine Constabulary.

Ah I didn't know this. When I heard paramilitary, my mind went straight to "pemuda pancasila", which is just a group of thugs.

[yas2010]

I think we can agree there is good and bad amongst each and every nation.
May Allah (swt) guide us all.

[tigerkhan]

May Allah destroy all those rangers, all of the ones who were involved. Ameen.

I can't believe that you are trying to make those rangers look like they have done a noble deed and that you are going so far to accuse the innocent dead boy without proof.

We don't give a daym about any countries Image, we care about a Muslim soul that was butchered. Wheres your heart?

May Allah grant that boy Jannah, and expose, humiliate those who feast on the weak ameen.

jumping to the conclusions without the deep knowledge of ground realities and hidden facts, its not good approach. i am not saying what ranger was doing is justified, what i mean to say its not all what was shown in video. only allah swt knows whether he was innocent or not. bcz according to IB (intelligence Bearou) the boy was a target killer of MQM. if its ture how u are praying allah swt grant him jannah. target killers are most cruel ppl and they are daily killing many innocent ppl in karachi.

[GuestFellow]

jumping to the conclusions without the deep knowledge of ground realities and hidden facts, its not good approach. i am not saying what ranger was doing is justified, what i mean to say its not all what was shown in video. only allah swt knows whether he was innocent or not. bcz according to IB (intelligence Bearou) the boy was a target killer of MQM. if its ture how u are praying allah swt grant him jannah. target killers are most cruel ppl and they are daily killing many innocent ppl in karachi.

:sl:

She did not jump to conclusions. It was obvious what happened. The ranger shot a boy. The boy was accused of being a thief, suicide bomber and now a target killer. These are all accusations at this stage and have not been proven. To determine whether these accusations are true or false, you need to have a trial. The boy was shot without a trial and is still innocent.

If there is evidence to support these accusations, then post them here.

[tigerkhan]

bro conclusion mean when u say something with confirmity..like she said

May Allah grant that boy Jannah, and expose, humiliate those who feast on the weak ameen.

i also pray if he is innocent, allah swt grant him highest rank in janah..BUT if he is innocent, as i write b4 that, only allah swt knows whether he was innocent or not. so dont say with this surety that he enter janah, we are not alam-ul-ghaib.
2ndly we are all human and muslims brothers in pakistan (army and ranger also) and trust me, there was never such accidents b4 some months, but now to me it seems all that is to brought in front and on international media to blackmail army, secutity forces and ISI... and remeber there is NO LAW in paksitan, nor u can say anything with surety. bcz there is too much fitna after these dajjali liar americans had enetred in internal affairs.
if can provide no proof and infact in pakitan, we have tradition, we have no proof whether osama was in abbottabad or not, who killed baynazir butto, zai-ul haq accident, kargal issue....a very long list.....but i only say, i am seeing maybe america will increase propagnada with such videos and soon we will see UN pass a resoultion that american should take control of pakistan bcz of security issure, terrorism, and failed army and agencies...
being a pakistani,i know there is strong chances, it was a drama...like a boy was fetch to ranger and they were odered to kill him, and someone was informed that u had to make video... u dont know situation here... even i am 1000000% sure Rehman Malik is american agent and this person is involved in these boob blasts.
there is much beyond the screen so leave it.

[GuestFellow]

^ Salaam,

Sorry, misunderstood your post.

[Endymion]

Then you can start explaining. Make it easier for us to understand what is going on in Pakistan. How have I made it difficult for people to understand what is exactly going on in Pakistan?

I wish i have that much time to bring up the facts but whether i or anyone else show you the other side of the picture and the truth or not,its your own responsibility to "Inquire" bsfore forwarding a news.

In short,western media keep on trying to prove Pakistan a Failiure state and the security forces of Pakistan are not capable to protect the country specially "The Neuclear Weapons" and its not a hidden thing taht Pakistan is on target next after Iraq and Afghanistan.(Source:A summary of debates of Defence analysts and Thinkers).
Unfortunately,some media groups are playing the role of black sheep here.They make such videos,paste a one sisded story on them,play them on TV channels and on youtube and international media pick these stories and use them to show how failing state Pakistan actually is.While these facts should be brought to courts and should be watch and judge by concerned people,not the common people who know only what media told them.Why media people play these stories on channels instead of contacting security agencies and courts is also a mean question.Another thing no body notice is that the Camera man did'nt try to help the boy,he just film the whole incident till the boy died.These media people have contacts with high commands, and security agencies take immediate action on their reports,but he did'nt tried to call anyone.If it was his own brother dying like that,would he just made the video and did nothing to save his life?


Sadly,people who search such spicy stories pick them and post them on forums,facebook etc etc and people gather there to curse the person who they think is wrong.Im sorry saying that (may be you are not one of them) but this is just a topic for people.They dont know the real story and they dont even try to know,the only thing they do is to curse the bad one and to pray and support the innocent.And after sometime,they forget what happened with the case and start talking about a new story(Like no body talk about what happened to Dr Aafia Siddiqui,Tasser case and some other famous cases anymore).Sitting before the computer and making comments on such issues do not help anyone.If you are that philanthropic and you really care about them,then do something practical for the victims,or atleast,stop forwarding false news.This will also be a great help.

How? Please, present evidence for this too.



Do you have evidence for this?

The first news came about that incident was "Rangers killed a boy who snatch mobiles at gun point",but after they get that footage,they add the story how rangers shoot the boy and let him die brutally.But,no where they said the boy was "INNOCENT".
If you just dont look at the video with the eyes of media but use your own brains and also your ears to listen the conversation between the boy and Rangers,the boy said,"Yaar meri majboori thi" Translation"buddy,im sorry,forgive me i was forced".Forced of what??Snatching mobiles and money on gun point??And then he refused to kneel down in spite of they warned him 2 times,instead,he attacked the armed man and tried to snatch the gun.What other security forces do in this case?They ask the suspected man to kneel down and stay where he is,or else,they simply shoot.What special the rangers did?But it was a brutal act to let him die over there.They had no right to do that and they should brought him to hospital,so to inform you all,all 6 men have been arrested and they have charges of killing that boy.
And here is the video which wil help you understand the real case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjl6e...has_verified=1

I never said these rangers represented entire military forces. From my understanding, these rangers are part of the Paramilitary forces of Pakistan.

I'm well aware not all people of Pakistan are like that. My family has come from Pakistan and I have visited Pakistan as well.

I don't understand what the part that I put in bold. Please elaborate.

Yes you did'nt said that but posting such individual acts make people start on the whole force and then,whole nation.What i mean by that is people aal around internet wtching this vidoe and trying to prove Pakistan a corrupt,lawless country.An example from this forum was the duplicate thread,on the same topic,which is i think deleted.

I'm open to hearing new stories. For now I will continue to post updates.

Do update people but inquire a matter before posting.Those rangers were not the only people who made mistake,the boy was also wrong.

You have those rangers to blame for the country's tarnished image...however, the country's image should not be Pakistan's main objective. The Pakistani government should tackle poverty and corruption. Besides, Pakistan reputation has already been tarnished by the western media.

A country's image is also important,no one like others to portrait there country in a bad manner.And people of Pakistan are dealing with all these issues.Nations do not arise in a blink of a second,its a long journey to go and they are on their road of a better Pakitan but making such comments is indeed,a few minutes job.

[B]

May Allah destroy all those rangers, all of the ones who were involved. Ameen.

May He SWT give them what they deserve.

I can't believe that you are trying to make those rangers look like they have done a noble deed and that you are going so far to accuse the innocent dead boy without proof.

I was'nt expecting such ignorant comment from you,Yanoorah.I dont think i need to write a condolence note for the boy and i though saying

I am not saying this gave the rangers "Licence to kill"

is enough for the wise.But may be its my fault that i did'nt explain what i mean and i might hurt your feelings.Im sorry.

We don't give a daym about any countries Image, we care about a Muslim soul that was butchered. Wheres your heart?

I care about my country's image and also,i care about my Muslim brothers but i have also a mind with my heart which cannot support a dacoit and cannot ask Allah SWT to awardhim with Jannah on snatching people's wealth and killing them just for a few hundered rupees like cats and dogs.And i believe they get the same because of what they do with innocent people but still,i condemn those rangers who let him die,it was'nt their right to do that and it was brutal and im sure they will also get punishment of their crime.

[GuestFellow]

I wish i have that much time to bring up the facts but whether i or anyone else show you the other side of the picture and the truth or not,its your own responsibility to "Inquire" bsfore forwarding a news.

Salaam,

You made these claims. Therefore, it is your responsibility to prove them. If you lack the time to explain these "facts", then I would advise you not to bring them up in the first place.

My claim is that these rangers shot a boy. The boy was bleeding to death and wanted help. The rangers did not help him and watched him die a painful death. My evidence? The video footage which is on YouTube, the BBC, Al Jazeera and so on.

You claimed that I made it difficult for people to understand what is going on in Pakistan. I was not even attempting to explain what is going on in Pakistan. I simply posted a story about rangers killing a young boy. This has nothing to do with what Pakistanis' are like or Pakistan's state of security. If some people think, this one case, represents what Pakistan is like, then they are blowing this case out of proportion. You will get this with ALL cases. Like in Saudi Arabia, you hear about a rape case where the victim does not get justice, and then many westerners believe Saudi Arabia is a backward barbaric country. If some people are pathetic enough to blow these cases out of proportion, then that is their problem.

Another thing no body notice is that the Camera man did'nt try to help the boy,he just film the whole incident till the boy died.These media people have contacts with high commands, and security agencies take immediate action on their reports,but he did'nt tried to call anyone.If it was his own brother dying like that,would he just made the video and did nothing to save his life?

The cameraman might have been shot by the rangers. This is probably the reason why the cameraman did not help.

And after sometime,they forget what happened with the case and start talking about a new story(Like no body talk about what happened to Dr Aafia Siddiqui,Tasser case and some other famous cases anymore). Sitting before the computer and making comments on such issues do not help anyone.If you are that philanthropic and you really care about them,then do something practical for the victims,or atleast,stop forwarding false news.This will also be a great help.

How did I spread false news? The rangers shot a boy and there is video evidence.

So you need to get involved in order to show that you really care?

The first news came about that incident was "Rangers killed a boy who snatch mobiles at gun point",but after they get that footage,they add the story how rangers shoot the boy and let him die brutally.But,no where they said the boy was "INNOCENT".

He was innocent. Innocent until proven guilty?

If you just dont look at the video with the eyes of media but use your own brains and also your ears to

My laptop is not working properly, so I cannot hear what is actually being said.

listen the conversation between the boy and Rangers,the boy said,"Yaar meri majboori thi" Translation"buddy,im sorry,forgive me i was forced".Forced of what??Snatching mobiles and money on gun point??

So? What does this mean? Your suggesting that this is a confession? Well, unfortunately, this is unreliable. The boy was being dragged by the hair and was probably scared. In these circumstances, your likely to confess out of fear.

And then he refused to kneel down in spite of they warned him 2 times,instead,he attacked the armed man and tried to snatch the gun.

One ranger pointed a gun at the boy at 0:01. The boy, looks as though he was pleading to the ranger with the gun not to shoot, 0:12 to 0:17.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdjWvAbJcI8

^ Where exactly in this video does it show the boy attacking the armed man?

What other security forces do in this case?They ask the suspected man to kneel down and stay where he is,or else,they simply shoot.What special the rangers did?But it was a brutal act to let him die over there.They had no right to do that and they should brought him to hospital,so to inform you all,all 6 men have been arrested and they have charges of killing that boy.

Even if the rangers told the boy to kneel down, they should not have shot him. What threat was the boy to the rangers? They did not have to shoot him at all.

And here is the video which wil help you understand the real case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjl6e...has_verified=1

Cannot watch it, I need a youtube account. :P:

Yes you did'nt said that but posting such individual acts make people start on the whole force and then,whole nation.What i mean by that is people aal around internet wtching this vidoe and trying to prove Pakistan a corrupt,lawless country.An example from this forum was the duplicate thread,on the same topic,which is i think deleted.

You need to stop caring what other people think. This is not my problem, and so will it stop me from posting an article. If people are silly to blow these cases out of proportion, then that is not my problem. It will only be my problem if I presented the case in such a way as to show that this case represents the whole of Pakistan.

Do update people but inquire a matter before posting.Those rangers were not the only people who made mistake,the boy was also wrong.

What did the boy did that was wrong? He was not been brought to trial, so he is innocent.

no one like others to portrait there country in a bad manner.

I really don't care. People present Islam in a negative light, and I don't care. It does not affect me. Don't let other people's opinion bring you down.

[Endymion]

Salaam,

Walekum Assalam.

You made these claims. Therefore, it is your responsibility to prove them. If you lack the time to explain these "facts", then I would advise you not to bring them up in the first place.

I made that claim,so you can see me here telling you and others the whole and the real story.But as such stories keep on coming and people keep on posting them and im unable to bring facts about all them,thats why i told you and others to realise your responsibility and inquire a matter before posting.

My claim is that these rangers shot a boy. The boy was bleeding to death and wanted help. The rangers did not help him and watched him die a painful death. My evidence? The video footage which is on YouTube, the BBC, Al Jazeera and so on.

I did not refuse it.Im just saying that this video portrays that the boy was innocent and Rangers were brutal while the real thing is that the boy was a criminal and Rangers did nothing to save his life after shooting him and that was their crime.

You claimed that I made it difficult for people to understand what is going on in Pakistan. I was not even attempting to explain what is going on in Pakistan. I simply posted a story about rangers killing a young boy. This has nothing to do with what Pakistanis' are like or Pakistan's state of security. If some people think, this one case, represents what Pakistan is like, then they are blowing this case out of proportion. You will get this with ALL cases. Like in Saudi Arabia, you hear about a rape case where the victim does not get justice, and then many westerners believe Saudi Arabia is a backward barbaric country. If some people are pathetic enough to blow these cases out of proportion, then that is their problem.

You dont need to explain all that,you just did all that by posting a one sided story.And i even presented you an example from this forum how people join these incidents to make a chain and start on Countries.When you know that people are like that,then you should'nt present such cases before them with half truth.It is your responsibility to correct them where they are wrong or just dont provide material to such people to make their disease worse,but if you do not care and you do not realise your resposibility,then what can i say.

The cameraman might have been shot by the rangers. This is probably the reason why the cameraman did not help.

Now thats funny.Who asked him to made a call in front of their mouth,he could inform others and try to stop them by going somewhere far from that place but this way he will loose the chance of making such a sensational video and he di'nt want to loose such a spicy story.
Also,Rangers did'nt shoot him while he was making their movie of their crime scene then why they shoot him to call someone else?Is'nt that a lame excuse?

How did I spread false news? The rangers shot a boy and there is video evidence.

Yup,they shot him but the story they made is half truth and half truth or one sided story considered as a lie.

So you need to get involved in order to show that you really care?

Of course,and involving and helping the matter does'nt only mean to meet them and help but to reveal the truth or just not spreading a false news,like i said before.

He was innocent. Innocent until proven guilty?

He was guilty and thats why they caught him and it was proved by the media,the first news they released about him was that he was a dacoit and you can see that he himself talking about his gun and his crime.Rangers did not arrest him in charge of playing football.Rangers do not arrest people but people theirselves caught him and handed him over to Rangers.

My laptop is not working properly, so I cannot hear what is actually being said

.
It was only you,but others can hear that but they dont even try to use there brains and believe on what media said.Is'nt that dangerous to bring half truth before such "Media guided Missiles"?

So? What does this mean? Your suggesting that this is a confession? Well, unfortunately, this is unreliable. The boy was being dragged by the hair and was probably scared. In these circumstances, your likely to confess out of fear.

Come on Guest fellow,which planet are you from?

One ranger pointed a gun at the boy at 0:01. The boy, looks as though he was pleading to the ranger with the gun not to shoot, 0:12 to 0:17.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdjWvAbJcI8

^ Where exactly in this video does it show the boy attacking the armed man?

Watch the video i posted and you will know.

Even if the rangers told the boy to kneel down, they should not have shot him. What threat was the boy to the rangers? They did not have to shoot him at all.

Sigh,you should have tell this to armed forces all around the world,this is a rule.

Cannot watch it, I need a youtube account. :P:

It will be a few minutes job for people who want to know the reality to make a google or youtube account but you prefer to expand the debate.Anyway,here is the link once again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpYdvo5A4QU

You need to stop caring what other people think. This is not my problem, and so will it stop me from posting an article. If people are silly to blow these cases out of proportion, then that is not my problem. It will only be my problem if I presented the case in such a way as to show that this case represents the whole of Pakistan.

I care about people just because i dont want them to over react on a false news.This international appriciation made Rangers very disappointed and embarrass and now they are not even taking any action against criminals in spite of they have shoot to kill orders.I know how they help the old cross the raods and help school kids even they take them to schools in their vehicles and just becuase of those 6 people made a crime,they face all that embarrassment which they dont deserve.Govt of Pakistan even limit their powers and took back so many facilities from them,which is a reaction of all that media hype.

What did the boy did that was wrong? He was not been brought to trial, so he is innocent.

He does'nt need atrial to prove him guilty,that is a proven thing and he even said this himself.I m sorry,now im unable to contact him or to ask him to come back for a few minutes and tell you the reality because after presenting all that facts,this is the only thing left to do.

I really don't care. People present Islam in a negative light, and I don't care. It does not affect me. Don't let other people's opinion bring you down.

It is impossible for me.If anyone here say something bad for me ,i'll definately try to tell them whats reality, so how can i let this case go while this has now become an important issue.And i wish you re read the first paragraph of my previous post and try to understand the whole conspiracy.

Salam.

[GuestFellow]

others to realise your responsibility and inquire a matter before posting.

:sl:

And I played my part well if I do say so myself. =) I always make reasonable inquiries before I post articles and nothing appeared to be suspicious.

I did not refuse it. Im just saying that this video portrays that the boy was innocent and Rangers were brutal while the real thing is that the boy was a criminal and Rangers did nothing to save his life after shooting him and that was their crime.

The boy was not a criminal. In order for an individual to be a criminal, several things must occur. The boy should have been arrested and brought into a police station. At the police station, he should have been questioned. If the police gathered sufficient evidence, the boy should have been charged with the offence(s) and be allowed access to a fair trial. Prior to trial, he can plead guilty or not guilty. If he pleads not guilty, the boy should be allowed time to prepare his defence before the court. Then it is for the judge to decide whether the boy is guilty or not guilty.

The rangers, technically are still innocent until the judge determines their guilt.

You dont need to explain all that,you just did all that by posting a one sided story.And i even presented you an example from this forum how people join these incidents to make a chain and start on Countries.When you know that people are like that,then you should'nt present such cases before them with half truth.It is your responsibility to correct them where they are wrong or just dont provide material to such people to make their disease worse,but if you do not care and you do not realise your resposibility,then what can i say.

What half-truth did I present?

Now thats funny.

There is nothing funny here. :/

Who asked him to made a call in front of their mouth,he could inform others and try to stop them by going somewhere far from that place but this way he will loose the chance of making such a sensational video and he di'nt want to loose such a spicy story.

I'm sorry, I don't understand this. Can you please elaborate?

Also,Rangers did'nt shoot him while he was making their movie of their crime scene then why they shoot him to call someone else?Is'nt that a lame excuse?

Hidden camera? This is a possibility.

Yup,they shot him but the story they made is half truth and half truth or one sided story considered as a lie.

What is the half-truth?

Of course,and involving and helping the matter does'nt only mean to meet them and help but to reveal the truth or just not spreading a false news,like i said before.

I suppose you do not really care about people starving to death in Africa and the innocent civilians getting killed in Afghanistan and Iraq, since your not directly involved?

I never spread false news. Even if it was false news, it was not intentional. Besides, you failed to demonstrate what the other half truth was.

He was guilty and thats why they caught him and it was proved by the media,the first news they released about him was that he was a dacoit and you can see that he himself talking about his gun and his crime.Rangers did not arrest him in charge of playing football.Rangers do not arrest people but people theirselves caught him and handed him over to Rangers.

You don't get it. The police or rangers or the media or the public do not prove someone's innocence. The courts determine this. Even the rangers who shot this boy are still innocent. As much as I hate those rangers, they deserve a fair trial and legal representation.

It was only you,but others can hear that but they dont even try to use there brains and believe on what media said.Is'nt that dangerous to bring half truth before such "Media guided Missiles"?

What I find dangerous is you determining an individual's guilt before they given access to a fair trial.

Come on Guest fellow,which planet are you from?

There is no need to be condescending, it is not appropriate in the World Affairs section.

It is a unreliable confession. He was being dragged by the hair and the man in the white uniform kicked him. It is likely he was scared and gave a false confession. Under these circumstances, this confession is not reliable.

Watch the video i posted and you will know.

Point it out. I posted the link to the video which everyone can see, without the part where the boy was dying.

Sigh,you should have tell this to armed forces all around the world,this is a rule.

There was no need to shoot him. It was excessive force. They could have arrested him without shooting him.

It will be a few minutes job for people who want to know the reality to make a google or youtube account but you prefer to expand the debate.Anyway,here is the link once again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpYdvo5A4QU

You can post as much video links as you want. I personally believe it is wrong to shoot an individual when he poses no threat. If the boy committed a crime, he should have been given access to a trial. There is usually a hearing where the boy can admit guilt in court, when he is asked to enter is plea.

I care about people just because i dont want them to over react on a false news.

There is nothing false about it. The rangers killed a boy when they should not have done.

This international appriciation made Rangers very disappointed and embarrass and now they are not even taking any action against criminals in spite of they have shoot to kill orders. I know how they help the old cross the raods and help school kids even they take them to schools in their vehicles and just becuase of those 6 people made a crime,they face all that embarrassment which they dont deserve.Govt of Pakistan even limit their powers and took back so many facilities from them,which is a reaction of all that media hype.

This happens everywhere. In the UK, some police officers use excessive force when arresting someone. The media presents the case and then you get some individuals believing all police officers are tyrants. This is, unfortunately normal.

He does'nt need atrial to prove him guilty,that is a proven thing and he even said this himself.I m sorry,now im unable to contact him or to ask him to come back for a few minutes and tell you the reality because after presenting all that facts,this is the only thing left to do.

That confession was not reliable as I explained above. The person should be found guilty of an offence "beyond all reasonable doubt". I personally doubt this so called confession the boy gave. Even if someone confesses their crime, they still need to be brought before the court, so the Judge can pass the appropriate sentence.

As an overview, you have failed to demonstrate how I presented false news or the news itself was false. You are obsessed on proving that the boy was a criminal, which is irrelevant. It is not about the boy, but the rangers. The rangers should not have killed the boy. The boy was not a criminal because he has not given access to a trial. His confession is unreliable based on the circumstances. If you think the boy was a criminal without access to a fair trial, then that is your opinion.

[tigerkhan]

Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
today's head line; An army Brigadier in GHQ Rawalpindi arrested bcz of links with banned Taliban organization who was responsible for attack on GHQ few months back.

subhanallah, he was caught now (i think more than 12 months after accident) and i know the reason.... bcz i know Pakistani agencies never lose until they solve the case...that's why we have cases more than 50 years old and we are still investigating them... butto case, bangladesh hamood ur rehman commission report etc etc.... LOL
as i predict b4, its sure there will be 1-2 such news every week now until the ppl of world got scared by Pakistani army and forces as they were from Osama...then America hero will come in action to save all ppl of the world from terrorist and take hold of Pakistan nuclear program and game will be over.

[Endymion]

:sl:

Walekum Assalam.

I always make reasonable inquiries before I post articles and nothing appeared to be suspicious.

But this story appeared to be suspicious.

The boy was not a criminal. In order for an individual to be a criminal, several things must occur. The boy should have been arrested and brought into a police station. At the police station, he should have been questioned. If the police gathered sufficient evidence, the boy should have been charged with the offence(s) and be allowed access to a fair trial. Prior to trial, he can plead guilty or not guilty. If he pleads not guilty, the boy should be allowed time to prepare his defence before the court. Then it is for the judge to decide whether the boy is guilty or not guilty.

The rangers, technically are still innocent until the judge determines their guilt.

If you have same laws for both the parties and you believe a person is innocent untill proven guilty by the court,then why you hate those rangers and why you spread this hatred here.Why did'nt you let the court prove those rangers guilty and then you had the right to hate them and to curse them.Whats this...

:sl:

Investigation under way after footage surfaces of alleged killing of unarmed man by five Karachi soldiers.

This makes me sick and furious. Those rangers are disgusting...



These barbaric soldiers and rangers ought to be shot and left to rot. Bunch of uncontrolled savage beasts.

I cannot begin to imagine the pain the victim's family is going through...

Remember,you said they are innocent untill proven guilty?

You post a video here in which a man shot a boy and let him die.This was enough to prove those rangers killers, but in the full video,in which the boy himself said that it was his gun and he feels sorry for what he did and he was needy thats why he was looting people but thats not enough proof in your sight.Subhannallah,you have an amazing sense of judgement.

What half-truth did I present?

Originally posted by Endymion.
Yup,they shot him but the story they made is half truth and half truth or one sided story considered as a lie.

I'm sorry, I don't understand this. Can you please elaborate?

Sigh.....

It means the camera man dont need to make a help call in front of Rangers.If he wanted to help,he simply need to go away from that place and then make a call so that rangers wont be able to know the camera man is calling someone.But this way,he had to stop shooting the murder scene and he will loose a spicy story with proof for his channel thats why he let the boy die and keep on filming the crime scene.

Hidden camera? This is a possibility.

Sigh,the excuses of planet Miranda ......

What is the half-truth?

The part that only prove those rangers guilty is half truth.The full story shows that the boy was also a criminal and his attitude of not following the commands of Rangers was wrong.In this situation,armed forces have the right to shoot the suspected person.

I suppose you do not really care about people starving to death in Africa and the innocent civilians getting killed in Afghanistan and Iraq, since your not directly involved?

Originally posted by Endymion.
Of course,and involving and helping the matter does'nt only mean to meet them and help but to reveal the truth or just not spreading a false news,like i said before.

I never spread false news. Even if it was false news, it was not intentional

.

Did'nt you picked that news from a internationally renownes news agency?

Besides, you failed to demonstrate what the other half truth was.

I posted a video that demonstrate the whole case well.May be you did'nt watch it or may be this time you got some problem in your laptop's screen.

You don't get it. The police or rangers or the media or the public do not prove someone's innocence. The courts determine this. Even the rangers who shot this boy are still innocent. As much as I hate those rangers, they deserve a fair trial and legal representation.

So why you hate them before they get a fair trial and the court announce them killers.May be they were also confused and scared that the boy is a suicide bomber and they shoot him.And they did'nt brought him to hospital because they have no gas in their vehicle but inside,they wanted to save him.

What I find dangerous is you determining an individual's guilt before they given access to a fair trial.

Are'nt you doing the same?

There is no need to be condescending, it is not appropriate in the World Affairs section.

That was'nt condescending,it was my serious question.

It is a unreliable confession. He was being dragged by the hair and the man in the white uniform kicked him. It is likely he was scared and gave a false confession. Under these circumstances, this confession is not reliable.

Every person whether innocent or guilty,when caught by police,always deny and reject the charges.He was truly an amazing case who accept those charges and was also giving them the details.

Point it out. I posted the link to the video which everyone can see, without the part where the boy was dying.

I posted the video and they point out everything well in the video.Did you even watch it?

There was no need to shoot him. It was excessive force. They could have arrested him without shooting him.

I think all the Military forces around the world read how you kicked the rule.I believe they are about to change the rule.

You can post as much video links as you want. I personally believe it is wrong to shoot an individual when he poses no threat. If the boy committed a crime, he should have been given access to a trial. There is usually a hearing where the boy can admit guilt in court, when he is asked to enter is plea.

I am not firing links here.that was just one link to demonstrate the other side of the story.

There is nothing false about it. The rangers killed a boy when they should not have done.

I never said this accident was false but the way media portrait it by pasting a one sided story,made it false.

That confession was not reliable as I explained above. The person should be found guilty of an offence "beyond all reasonable doubt". I personally doubt this so called confession the boy gave. Even if someone confesses their crime, they still need to be brought before the court, so the Judge can pass the appropriate sentence.

It was my duty to bring all the facts and let you know the other side of the story but,after all,you are free in making any opinion and being disagree with me.

As an overview, you have failed to demonstrate how I presented false news or the news itself was false. You are obsessed on proving that the boy was a criminal, which is irrelevant. It is not about the boy, but the rangers. The rangers should not have killed the boy. The boy was not a criminal because he has not given access to a trial. His confession is unreliable based on the circumstances. If you think the boy was a criminal without access to a fair trial, then that is your opinion.

May be you failed to understand those facts.You are also obessed in calling those rangers guilty until it is proven by the court.



It was my duty to let others know the real story.It is every one's responsibility to inquire a matter before forwarding it or just wait till accused proven guilty.Please,be rightly guided,not media guided people.Watch things with your own eyes and hear facts with your ears and decide your self what is right and whats wrong.Dont let false stories drive you away from justice.Listen to both sides and then decide.Also,do not curse Countries and Nations for individual acts.There are good and bad people every where.Im not here to win any argument,just want people to open their eyes and see how media trap us for their benefit.

[GuestFellow]

Walekum Assalam.

:sl:

If you have same laws for both the parties and you believe a person is innocent untill proven guilty by the court,then why you hate those rangers and why you spread this hatred here.Why did'nt you let the court prove those rangers guilty and then you had the right to hate them and to curse them.

I saw the video. There is clear evidence that they shot the boy and did not help him. I never said they were guilty of an offence or criminals.

Whats this...

That's me being angry.

Remember,you said they are innocent untill proven guilty?

I never said they were guilty of an offence. I said they were uncontrolled savage beasts which is my personal opinion. Read carefully.

You post a video here in which a man shot a boy and let him die.This was enough to prove those rangers killers, but in the full video,in which the boy himself said that it was his gun and he feels sorry for what he did and he was needy thats why he was looting people but thats not enough proof in your sight.

Yes, the rangers killed someone, but to what offence are they truly guilty of? It could have been murder, manslaughter and so on. The Judge should pass the appropriate sentence. As for the boy, it could have been a false confession. The courts will determine whether his confession was reliable.

Subhannallah,you have an amazing sense of judgement.

Thank you.

It means the camera man dont need to make a help call in front of Rangers.If he wanted to help,he simply need to go away from that place and then make a call so that rangers wont be able to know the camera man is calling someone.But this way,he had to stop shooting the murder scene and he will loose a spicy story with proof for his channel thats why he let the boy die and keep on filming the crime scene.

If the cameraman let the boy die, then what he did was wrong.

Sigh,the excuses of planet Miranda .....

No not excuses but a possibility.

The part that only prove those rangers guilty is half truth.The full story shows that the boy was also a criminal and his attitude of not following the commands of Rangers was wrong.In this situation,armed forces have the right to shoot the suspected person.

Attitude? He looked scared to me or worried. To shoot him was excessive force. There was no need to do that. You have no evidence that he was a criminal, just a mere confession which is unreliable based on the circumstances which I previously mentioned.

There were six men with guns and a 15 year old boy. All they had to do was arrest him and hand him over to the police, not shoot him.

Did'nt you picked that news from a internationally renownes news agency?

Al-Jazeera.

I posted a video that demonstrate the whole case well.May be you did'nt watch it or may be this time you got some problem in your laptop's screen.

No, laptop screen is working fine, just the sound not working. :hmm:

You said the boy was a criminal. In order for an individual to be a criminal, he needs to be guilty of an offnece, which can only be established in court. So he is not a criminal, sorry.

So why you hate them before they get a fair trial and the court announce them killers.

Yes. I do hate them because they shot him and did not help him. This does not mean the rangers do not deserve a chance to be heard at court.

May be they were also confused and scared that the boy is a suicide bomber and they shoot him.

If the boy was a suicide bomber, I highly doubt the rangers would pull his hair, kick him in the back, point a gun at him and then shoot him. Wouldn't he just blow himself up? :/

And they did'nt brought him to hospital because they have no gas in their vehicle but inside,they wanted to save him.

Evidence for this? They did nothing to stop the bleeding. Do rangers learn First Aid in Pakistan?

Are'nt you doing the same?

No. I never said they were criminals. By criminals, I mean a person who has access to a fair trial and has been convicted of an offence. What offence these rangers have committed I don't know. I'm simply angry they killed a young boy and did not help him.

That was'nt condescending,it was my serious question.

I'm from Earth.

Every person whether innocent or guilty,when caught by police,always deny and reject the charges.

Every person? :/ I highly doubt this.

He was truly an amazing case who accept those charges and was also giving them the details.

No, it's not. What charges were brought before him? State the legislation as well.

I posted the video and they point out everything well in the video.Did you even watch it?

Yes I watched it.

I believe they are about to change the rule.

Good.

I am not firing links here.that was just one link to demonstrate the other side of the story.

Which you done a poor job of. The boy is not a criminal.

I never said this accident was false but the way media portrait it by pasting a one sided story,made it false.

The media says the rangers killed the boy and did not help him. There was video evidence. The boy was bleeding and the rangers did nothing to stop the bleeding. They even claimed he was a suicide bomber until the video footage was released. Their credibility is damaged, except in your eyes.

It was my duty to bring all the facts and let you know the other side of the story but,after all,you are free in making any opinion and being disagree with me.

You have not done a good job of bring these "facts". All your saying is the boy is a criminal.

May be you failed to understand those facts.You are also obessed in calling those rangers guilty until it is proven by the court.

Where did I say the rangers are guilty? Find it for me please. I called them savages and uncontrolled beasts, but I never said they were guilty of an offence.

It was my duty to let others know the real story.

Like I said before, you done a poor job. You proved nothing.

It is every one's responsibility to inquire a matter before forwarding it or just wait till accused proven guilty.

Which I did.

Please,be rightly guided,not media guided people.

I'm not guided by the media at all. I actually rely on books and hear views from different media sources to get a better view of the situation.

Watch things with your own eyes and hear facts with your ears and decide your self what is right and whats wrong.

Which I did. The rangers shot a boy and did nothing to help him.

Dont let false stories drive you away from justice. Listen to both sides and then decide.Also,do not curse Countries and Nations for individual acts.There are good and bad people every where.Im not here to win any argument,just want people to open their eyes and see how media trap us for their benefit.

And all of this is rhetoric and irrelevant. No false news has been presented nor misrepresented. No one cursed Pakistan for the individual acts of the rangers on this forum. I suspect that your upset because these rangers damaged Pakistan's reputation and your blaming the boy.

[Endymion]

:wa:

:statisfie

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

.................................................

[Endymion]

Assalaamu Alaaykum:

And some 'conversations' are awesomelly endless subhaan'Allaah and also really Geeky :-\

(

:wa:

You said every thing :D

[GuestFellow]

Assalaamu Alaaykum

what a beautiful day it was out there today masha'Allaah..

And some 'conversations' are awesomelly endless subhaan'Allaah and also really Geeky :-\

*feels awkward jumping in with a random comment* +o(

:wa:

Your comment was quite predictable lol. I expected to discover the term geeky in your post. It was not an endless conversation :/ . I think it is over now but I actually enjoyed the debate/discussion. :p:

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

...........................

[GuestFellow]

Asalaamu Alaaykum

Phew!:phew i thought i was going to end up recieving some few angry messages from sis Endymion and bro Guestfellow the two geeky members.but Alhamdulilaah i didnt. But i do hope that you are both are at peace with one another insha'Allaah..

Disagreeing with an issue shouldnt make us become geeky with one another.. remain Geeky please.

soo peace out! :-\

ps. the convo is over! :raging:

:wa:

I never get angry on this forum towards other members. That's a waste of energy. People are going to disagree with you and you have to respect their opinion.

[Endymion]

Asalaamu Alaaykum





Phew!:phew i thought i was going to end up recieving some few angry messages from sis Endymion and bro Guestfellow the two geeky members.but Alhamdulilaah i didnt. But i do hope that you are both are at peace with one another insha'Allaah..

Disagreeing with an issue shouldnt make us become geeky with one another.. remain Geeky please.

soo peace out! :-\

ps. the convo is over! :raging:

Really ^o) Did i scared you :embarrass

Actually its understood in a discussion forum that when you post your point of view,some agree and some disagree.Sometimes we try to put our words in others mouth :D but this is what makes a forum alive and make us learn new things.But i dont think anyone need to fly a white flag between me and guest fellow.We are alright with each other and he is still a respectable brother to me :statisfie

While this is another thing in some places i feel him a cute little stubborn kid :p And people might think im offended :embarrass

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

may he Allaah SWT grant peace amongst the ummah of the rasool (SAW) and grant happiness both this life and the akhirah Aameen..

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

.............................................

[ardianto]

Poor, sister Pearl of Wisdom deleted her posts, but too late. Guestfellow and Endymion had quoted and made those posts still visible. :)

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

Pakistan: Six Karachi Rangers charged with murder

^ Update.

[Ramadhan]

It's good to see that Law and Justice are being upheld in Pakistan.