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abjad
06-23-2011, 08:29 AM
ASALAAM ALEYKUM

having read and almost known by many muslims Scholars and the librarians
THAT
there are ahadith which have been categorized as:-

DHAIF
Mutawasit
and
Makbul

my question is this:- Why these dhaIF ahadith still left and kept on reproducing rather than deleting them?
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missy
06-23-2011, 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by hodi
ASALAAM ALEYKUM

having read and almost known by many muslims Scholars and the librarians
THAT
there are ahadith which have been categorized as:-

DHAIF
Mutawasit
and
Makbul

my question is this:- Why these dhaIF ahadith still left and kept on reproducing rather than deleting them?
:sl: bro,

Linguistically, da‘eef means “weak”, while technically it refers to a narration below the standard of hasan.

There are different grades of Da'eef hadiths……...

The weakness of a hadeeth varies according to the severity of the weakness due to breaks in the chain or defects in the narrators. As to the weakest chain, it would be the fabricated narrations.


Those that are present in the Hadith books are not "fabricated" ones rather they are those which have one or more defects due to which they are classified as weak. These types are not completely rejected cuz there might be other strong hadiths supporting the text or its meaning or due to other reasons like trustworthy narrators etc. While the fabricated hadiths are rejected totally.

Ruling on Da‘eef Narrations
Scholars differed regarding the use of hadeeth da‘eef. The majority permitted its application for meritorious (recommended and praiseworthy) deeds not pertaining to theology or legal rulings (halaal and haraam) according to three conditions specified by Ibn Hajar:-
1. The hadeeth must not be excessively weak, containing liars or fabricators.
2. It must be acknowledged as reliable evidence.
3. One does not suppose that by its application its strength is established.

Sufyaan ath-Thawree, ‘Abdur-Rahmaan ibn Mahdee and Ahmad ibn Hambal used weak narrations. In fact Imaam Ahmad preferred to use weak narrations to Qiyaas.

The hadeeth da‘eef is also referred to in classical works as al-Khabar al- Mardood (Rejected Narrations). The inauthentic hadeeth is one in which the truth of the report is highly unlikely due to the loss of one or more of the conditions for the acceptance. Some da‘eef hadeeths may be reclassified due to supportive factors while others are totally rejected. The inauthentic hadeeth may be further subdivided into different subcategories based on which of the five criteria has not been met.

(Usool al-Hadith by Dr. Bilal Phillips)


hope that helps.

:wa:
Reply

abjad
06-24-2011, 10:12 AM
Originally Posted by missy


:sl: bro,

Linguistically, da‘eef means “weak”, while technically it refers to a narration below the standard of hasan.

There are different grades of Da'eef hadiths……...

The weakness of a hadeeth varies according to the severity of the weakness due to breaks in the chain or defects in the narrators. As to the weakest chain, it would be the fabricated narrations.


Those that are present in the Hadith books are not "fabricated" ones rather they are those which have one or more defects due to which they are classified as weak. These types are not completely rejected cuz there might be other strong hadiths supporting the text or its meaning or due to other reasons like trustworthy narrators etc. While the fabricated hadiths are rejected totally.

Ruling on Da‘eef Narrations
Scholars differed regarding the use of hadeeth da‘eef. The majority permitted its application for meritorious (recommended and praiseworthy) deeds not pertaining to theology or legal rulings (halaal and haraam) according to three conditions specified by Ibn Hajar:-
1. The hadeeth must not be excessively weak, containing liars or fabricators.
2. It must be acknowledged as reliable evidence.
3. One does not suppose that by its application its strength is established.

Sufyaan ath-Thawree, ‘Abdur-Rahmaan ibn Mahdee and Ahmad ibn Hambal used weak narrations. In fact Imaam Ahmad preferred to use weak narrations to Qiyaas.

The hadeeth da‘eef is also referred to in classical works as al-Khabar al- Mardood (Rejected Narrations). The inauthentic hadeeth is one in which the truth of the report is highly unlikely due to the loss of one or more of the conditions for the acceptance. Some da‘eef hadeeths may be reclassified due to supportive factors while others are totally rejected. The inauthentic hadeeth may be further subdivided into different subcategories based on which of the five criteria has not been met.

(Usool al-Hadith by Dr. Bilal Phillips)


hope that helps.

:wa:
:wa:[/B][/QUOTE]

Great, and Thanks.

Now one more thing; suppose a branch of ahadith hanging before me or anybody;
let us imagine I saw him plucking one of the HADITH and enquring why he says ...Dhaif and unreliable

i warned him be careful if the one who planted it comes to know!!
he will too PLUCK YOURS DOWN.

then here is my question:- what will happen if after each one realizes that HIS hadith has been PULLED DOWN?
Reply

missy
06-24-2011, 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by hodi

Great, and Thanks.

Now one more thing; suppose a branch of ahadith hanging before me or anybody;
let us imagine I saw him plucking one of the HADITH and enquring why he says ...Dhaif and unreliable

i warned him be careful if the one who planted it comes to know!!
he will too PLUCK YOURS DOWN.

then here is my question:- what will happen if after each one realizes that HIS hadith has been PULLED DOWN?
:sl: bro,

I don't get what your trying to ask.....:ermm:
Could you please be a bit more explicit....

sorry...:-\

JazakAllah Khair.
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abjad
06-24-2011, 09:16 PM
Originally Posted by missy
then here is my question:- what will happen if after each one realizes that HIS hadith has been PULLED DOWN?
what it stands similar to the present situation of Islamic states/

clearly Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w)replied: NO dont overthrown them, as far as they say their prayers and Mosques are not brought down.

Is (till minute) there any Islamic state which has voiced that hadith Rasul? Instead we are being showeredd with:-1449782](Usool al-Hadith by Dr. Bilal Phillips)
[/quote]

why they dont abide by.......and another thing in Kuran kareem, clearly the story of the children of Prophet (Adam)aleyhi salaam

"Min ajli dhalika katabna Ii bani israil (If you kill one persons it will registered as killed the whole world-and if you spare one person you as spared the whole generation)

SO LEAVE THE AHADITHIS THERE AND NEVER FOLLOW THEM THEN WHAT IS THE USE?


Reply

missy
06-26-2011, 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by hodi


what it stands similar to the present situation of Islamic states/

clearly Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w)replied: NO dont overthrown them, as far as they say their prayers and Mosques are not brought down.

Is (till minute) there any Islamic state which has voiced that hadith Rasul? Instead we are being showeredd with:-1449782](Usool al-Hadith by Dr. Bilal Phillips)


why they dont abide by.......and another thing in Kuran kareem, clearly the story of the children of Prophet (Adam)aleyhi salaam

"Min ajli dhalika katabna Ii bani israil (If you kill one persons it will registered as killed the whole world-and if you spare one person you as spared the whole generation)

SO LEAVE THE AHADITHIS THERE AND NEVER FOLLOW THEM THEN WHAT IS THE USE?


What I understand from this particular post is that according to you….
the Islamic States don't follow these hadiths of the Prophet (saw), in spite of the fact that even the Quran emphasizes on the same…..

and then from your question all what I could grasp is…what then is the use of the Islamic States (or the hadiths)??…..

^ that's really confusing :ermm:…bro, I don't get it, what exactly is your question and how is this particular one related to your previous posts…about the da'eef hadiths?

Well…anyways…I'll try my best at this InshaAllah….

As regards your initial question about the acceptance of Da'eef Ahadith….

First off, the title of this thread says "Sahih muslim-bukhari etc"…this implies that your question concerns the "authenticated" books of hadiths, in fact Sahih Bukhari is the most reliable book after the Holy Quran…All the narrations in it as well as the other six sound books (The Sihah Sittah) are authentic, and no doubt free from misguidance. And those narrations present in these books that are labeled "da'eef" are NOT unreliable, rather it's simply that either the chain (sanad) is weak or there might be other reasons for it as already pointed out in that excerpt from Dr. Bilal Phillips' book that I copy-pasted here. So there is no question of doubt as long as the Hadith is present in the Sihah Sittah. And if at all a doubt arises then one might check back with other similar hadiths and should prefer the strong ones over the weak one.

But if the Hadith is of questionable authenticity i.e is not present in any of the six books , then you should:
First, if you can then try to find out similar hadiths; strong ones…those which are on the same topic or of the same text but with stronger chains of narration (isnad).
Second, if that's not possible then you should ask a knowledgeable person, whom one can rely on, probably a scholar or a Sheikh.

Brother, I'm really sorry if this is not the answer to your question. :-\
I hope someone else will be able to help better.

Jazakallahu Khairan.
Reply

abjad
06-30-2011, 10:45 AM
Originally Posted by missy


What I understand from this particular post is that according to you….
the Islamic States don't follow these hadiths of the Prophet (saw), in spite of the fact that even the Quran emphasizes on the same…..

and then from your question all what I could grasp is…what then is the use of the Islamic States (or the hadiths)??…..

^ that's really confusing :ermm:…bro, I don't get it, what exactly is your question and how is this particular one related to your previous posts…about the da'eef hadiths?

Well…anyways…I'll try my best at this InshaAllah….

As regards your initial question about the acceptance of Da'eef Ahadith….

First off, the title of this thread says "Sahih muslim-bukhari etc"…this implies that your question concerns the "authenticated" books of hadiths, in fact Sahih Bukhari is the most reliable book after the Holy Quran…All the narrations in it as well as the other six sound books (The Sihah Sittah) are authentic, and no doubt free from misguidance. And those narrations present in these books that are labeled "da'eef" are NOT unreliable, rather it's simply that either the chain (sanad) is weak or there might be other reasons for it as already pointed out in that excerpt from Dr. Bilal Phillips' book that I copy-pasted here. So there is no question of doubt as long as the Hadith is present in the Sihah Sittah. And if at all a doubt arises then one might check back with other similar hadiths and should prefer the strong ones over the weak one.

But if the Hadith is of questionable authenticity i.e is not present in any of the six books , then you should:
First, if you can then try to find out similar hadiths; strong ones…those which are on the same topic or of the same text but with stronger chains of narration (isnad).
Second, if that's not possible then you should ask a knowledgeable person, whom one can rely on, probably a scholar or a Sheikh.

Brother, I'm really sorry if this is not the answer to your question. :-\
I hope someone else will be able to help better.

Jazakallahu Khairan.
wa aleykum
salaam

sister,
let us not (Muslims) put our heads under our wings
the fact is this IF One hadith is removed the one who inserted IT will surely pull of that person who pulled down HIS
SO
Reply

missy
07-01-2011, 02:30 AM
Originally Posted by hodi


wa aleykum
salaam

sister,
let us not (Muslims) put our heads under our wings
the fact is this IF One hadith is removed the one who inserted IT will surely pull of that person who pulled down HIS
SO
Salaam,

Bro, but these hadiths were compiled ages ago, and the compilers; who rejected "somebody" else's da'eef Hadith etc, are no longer present today. These were the atba at-tabieen and those after them and the compilations were done at their time, literally "ages" ago!
So, from where does the point of "pulling down" each other's Hadith come?! The work has already been done..all the existing Ahadeeth are classified well and it is very much clear which ones are authentic and which ones are not. Our job is just to check back the ahadith before relying on it; whether or not it's classified as "da'eef", and nothing more.

Wassalaam.
Reply

abjad
07-01-2011, 09:00 PM
Originally Posted by missy

Salaam,

Bro, but these hadiths were compiled ages ago, and the compilers; who rejected "somebody" else's da'eef Hadith etc, are no longer present today. These were the atba at-tabieen and those after them and the compilations were done at their time, literally "ages" ago!
So, from where does the point of "pulling down" each other's Hadith come?! The work has already been done..all the existing Ahadeeth are classified well and it is very much clear which ones are authentic and which ones are not. Our job is just to check back the ahadith before relying on it; whether or not it's classified as "da'eef", and nothing more.

Wassalaam.
wa aleykum salaam

thank you for your cooperation

let us now move a short step

hadith rasuluLllah Muhammad (s.a.w)
the time will come People(muslims)will HATE their leaders and Leaders will too hate them too.
Shall they be killed )(those leaders)? the question put before him (Muhammad) (s.a.w)
He said NO....as far as they say their Prayers and they dont break the masjids.

Now what to accept is it MAQBOOL hadith?
and if it NOT then here i understand why saudi they brought down the masjid and too yemen fighting inside;
then WHY NONE OF THE MUFTIS AND WHOEVER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR RELIGIOUS MATTERS EVER SPEAK? as Hadith has been pulled down and what else...action speaks louder then words..arent they?

am sorry for my english but i hope you understand my point sis?
Reply

missy
07-02-2011, 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by hodi


wa aleykum salaam

thank you for your cooperation

let us now move a short step

hadith rasuluLllah Muhammad (s.a.w)
the time will come People(muslims)will HATE their leaders and Leaders will too hate them too.
Shall they be killed )(those leaders)? the question put before him (Muhammad) (s.a.w)
He said NO....as far as they say their Prayers and they dont break the masjids.

Now what to accept is it MAQBOOL hadith?
and if it NOT then here i understand why saudi they brought down the masjid and too yemen fighting inside;
then WHY NONE OF THE MUFTIS AND WHOEVER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR RELIGIOUS MATTERS EVER SPEAK? as Hadith has been pulled down and what else...action speaks louder then words..arent they?

am sorry for my english but i hope you understand my point sis?
:sl: bro,

I get your point.

But there are other Hadiths in this regard too. Like this one,

Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The best fighting in the path of Allah is (to speak) a word of justice to an oppressive ruler. (Sunan Abu Dawood Book #37, Hadith #4330)

And there might be fiqh rulings related to this..for sure!

Check out this link for more info on this issue….I haven't read the entire article though because it's huge, so I don't know what exactly it contains and I'm not sure about it's authenticity either…..
The Islamic ruling on protests and demonstrations

Fi Sabilillah.

:wa:
Reply

abjad
07-04-2011, 08:34 PM
Originally Posted by missy
I get your point
thank you sister...

so a doctor has prescribed the medication
and the patient instead of collecting and use the dosage
he/she Put that prescription around neck on the hope it will cure;
while the Muftis and our leaders keep on i mean shouting Hadith hadith, Yaa Allah
ghufraanaka wa ilayka Lmasiir.
Reply

abjad
07-04-2011, 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by missy
I get your point
thank you sister...

so a doctor has prescribed the medication
and the patient instead of collecting and use the dosage
he/she Put that prescription around neck on the hope it will cure;
while the Muftis and our leaders keep on i mean shouting Hadith hadith, Yaa Allah
ghufraanaka wa ilayka Lmasiir.
Reply

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