Muslims grooming White girls

[Uncle Jee]

Having been banned from a forum for apparently being am extremist and supporting violence etc etc can any of you guys shed any light. Are the comments by Sheeda Pistol really that bad or is it once again the atheists failure to understand.

Well maybe you should stop being namby pamby and see the real world. Some women need a slap! Period! They need to be brought back down to earth and learn a little humility. God knows it is going to happen so has set limits. It is wrong but it's how blokes naturally are. Crap at arguing, mental drives them to snapping point and then they lash out. It happens to many a bloke and society will always look down at those men. I fotunately see a different side of things.

My argument was in response to the wife beating versus of Islam where non believers use it as a stick to poke the Muslims with whereas I see the realistic ad sensible side of the argument and put it down to most atheists are incapable of thinking properly or without bein indirectly PC.

[Who Am I?]

I'm going to have to disagree with you there, bro. As mad as I have been sometimes, I've never hit anyone or anything, man, woman, or dog. A few walls, maybe. Broken a few controllers in my time, sure. But I've never hit any person or animal because of my rage.

Not sure what this has to do with "grooming white girls" though. I admit I am puzzled by that...

[Muezzin]

'No more Muslamic rayguns!'

[Ramadhan]

"wife beating" in term that we all understand it, is not allowed in Islam, I'm sure you understand that?

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[May Ayob]

Salaam
You are not an extremist , You simply do not understand Islam esp regarding this issue
Brother no one will force you to marry whom you will marry , so before even thinking about any violence you want to commit against anyone
What would make belive that your wife would be as you described?
May be she is good , genlte and polite person are you going to hurt her because you simply belive that all women have mood problems?
You have to re-think what marriage means to you, and I wouldn;t encourage you to get married soon
Salaam

[Just_A_Girl13]

Salaam,

I think that it's inappropriate for any person to ever, ever hit any person out of frustration. Of course, that's just my opinion, but I highly doubt that Allah (s.w.t.) wants us to hit each other rather than talk out our differences calmly and rationally.

Peace be with you

[yas2010]

Please explain how domestic violence or any other violence inflicted by man upon a woman is related to muslims grooming 'white girls'?!

Please do elaborate, i am intrigued?!

[Dagless]

Which are the wife beating verses?

[Uncle Jee]

Sorry, the forum i got banned from Pistonheads had a topic about how Muslims are grooming young white girls and certain people even stated that Islam encourages degration of the woman and even rape! That was the thread title for my ban.

Anyway i'm married and have been so for just over seven years. I have never hit the wife, or even thought of it.

Someone posted a link up of Pat Condell and his ramblings, i pointed out he is an idiot only to be met by a link to Dr Zakir Naiks video on youtube about wife beating.

The discussion got heated and someone mentioned in Islam it says you can hit the wife very gently. I made it clear that no you can't but in certain circumstances it is allowed. Hence i went on to say that the bit Sheeda Pistol quoted above. Aka most women are fine but be under no illuision that all women are cuddly, lovable creatures. Some are real vile.

Thoughts?

[Uncle Jee]

The Qur'an:
Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Qur'an (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife.

[Tyrion]

Oh, darn. I was expecting a thread about Muslim guys hooking up with white girls... :p:

[Uncle Jee]

Oh, darn. I was expecting a thread about Muslim guys hooking up with white girls... :p:

Yes, the Muslims or so called gangs praying on young vunerable girls as mentioned in the media.

[Tyrion]

^Uhmm, what? You seem a little confused... And a bit out of touch with Islam's stance on a few things... Hopefully other members can help you out.

[Uncle Jee]

Please do enlighten me...

[Dagless]

The Qur'an:
Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Qur'an (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife.

I think maybe you should have explained to them further since in the west a beating usually means injuring someone. As far as I know you're not allowed to harm your wife or cause her pain so it would be a beating but without causing damage or pain.

[Uncle Jee]

It was an amazing experience. Considering the place is for motoring enthusiast the amount of Islamiphobic comments on the site are astronomical. The mods even seem to allow people to get away with inflammatory comments like Mosques teach 'Adultery is not the man's fault, the devil works through the woman to ensnare the man.'. I was the only Muslims who spoke up to the idiots and apparently i'm the one that offends. The worst thing is that the forum was populated by educated people too.

[GuestFellow]

Salaam,

I'm confused. Is this topic about wife beating or about Muslims grooming white girls? Which one is it?

[Perseveranze]

Muslims don't groom white girls, I mean Muslim's aren't a race or anything and I don't remember any teachings in Islam that tell you to groom white girls, what gave you that idea...

[Pygoscelis]

Are these actual verses from the Quran? Please tell me these are fabrications. If they are real, why would it suprise you that non-muslims would react negatively?

The Qur'an:
Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

So, women are to be obedient to men and if a man fears his woman may leave him (it doesn't say wife?), he is to adminish her, abandon her, and beat her? How is that NOT the OK to beat women? It actually tells you to do it? As in if you don't beat your disobedient woman you're acting against God?

Incidentally, if this was a Christian board you came from you'd have wanted to show them the parts of the bible telling you how to beat slaves. Its no better.

This is all a good example of how ethics change over time. In the times these books were written these things were considered ok (slavery, beating women, etc). We've come quite a way since then.

Qur'an (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife.

This one appears to be specific to Job, so not applicable to modern men.

[Who Am I?]

Salaam,

I'm confused. Is this topic about wife beating or about Muslims grooming white girls? Which one is it?

I know that I always carry a hairbrush with me so I that can groom the hair of random white girls. ;D

[Salahudeen]

Are these actual verses from the Quran? Please tell me these are fabrications. If they are real, why would it suprise you that non-muslims would react negatively?



So, women are to be obedient to men and if a man fears his woman may leave him (it doesn't say wife?), he is to adminish her, abandon her, and beat her? How is that NOT the OK to beat women? It actually tells you to do it? As in if you don't beat your disobedient woman you're acting against God?

Incidentally, if this was a Christian board you came from you'd have wanted to show them the parts of the bible telling you how to beat slaves. Its no better.

This is all a good example of how ethics change over time. In the times these books were written these things were considered ok (slavery, beating women, etc). We've come quite a way since then.



This one appears to be specific to Job, so not applicable to modern men.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/beating_no.htm may be helpful to you.

[GuestFellow]

I know that I always carry a hairbrush with me so I that can groom the hair of random white girls. ;D

Salaam,

How nice. O_O

[Ali Mujahidin]

:sl:

I have looked at the link given by brother Salahudeen and I think it is clear enough about the question of wife-beating in Islam. Unless Pygocelis sees something in it that I don't. In which case, I will wait for Pygocelis to tell us what it is that he still does not understand about this issue.

As an attention-getter, the title of this thread should be in line for some kind of award. Brother Uncle Jee does not happen to be in the advertising industry, does he?

Personally I think Islam is the only religion that has accorded women the proper respect due to them as our mothers, sisters and aunts. Anyone who thinks that Islam demeans women either (a) does not know anything about Islam or (b) does not want to know anything good about Islam. Whatever, please feel free to ask so that our learned brothers and sisters here can know exactly what it is that makes a person think that Islam is unfair to women.

Ya Allah, ya Rabbi, please bless all of us with your hidayat and help us to stay strong and steady on the true path of Islam. Ameen.

[Tyrion]

http://www.answering-christianity.com/beating_no.htm may be helpful to you.

Interesting article... Can anyone who has a working knowledge of Classical Arabic confirm that those alternate translations of the word used in that verse are accurate? Is that really a possible translation? If it is, it definitely seems to fit within the context of the surah, and of the Quran as a whole a bit better... But then I'm forced to wonder why so many translators and Muslims stick with the translations that seem to speak of beating... Can someone clarify further?

[DippedinJannah]

'No more Muslamic rayguns!'

Really, they're not giving those out any more? I got a beautiful X-9000 Phaser Pistol when I reverted.

[May Ayob]

Interesting article... Can anyone who has a working knowledge of Classical Arabic confirm that those alternate translations of the word used in that verse are accurate? Is that really a possible translation? If it is, it definitely seems to fit within the context of the surah, and of the Quran as a whole a bit better... But then I'm forced to wonder why so many translators and Muslims stick with the translations that seem to speak of beating... Can someone clarify further?

Salaam
I think they stick to translation of beating because they do not understand the Quran very well, and they also beleive that Islam is male dominated religion, I also think it is because of culture.. and they see it normal to fix a woman by beating her..I guess
But the translation is correct, The word has many meanings , because the Word -Darab in Arabic comprehends alot of meaning such as Give,or Multiply..etc
Salaam


Peace be to you:
Please Read the verse again, Also Read it in an accurate Translation.
the

So, women are to be obedient to men and if a man fears his woman may leave him (it doesn't say wife?), he is to adminish her, abandon her, and beat her? How is that NOT the OK to beat women? It actually tells you to do it? As in if you don't beat your disobedient woman you're acting against God?

Maintainers is not the right translation--Qiyam is the word and Qiyam means literally Standing
I would say the better definetion is Men are the Defenders of Women.
The Prophet Never beated anyone with his hand it is Forbidden.
How can you say his Woman while you should know by now that Islam Prohibits any relationships with the opposite gender except with strict restrictions any man who befriends a woman and claims that she is his woman is commiting a sin and probably fornication as well.

As in if you don't beat your disobedient woman you're acting against God?

You said "As in" so it is a pre-assumption I guess if you were a Muslim you would be one of these men claiming that God has ordained you to beat your wife It really only shows your true inner reflection.It doesn't say you are acting against God, Why do you have to make such a bad-opinion about a case before it is confirmed?

[May Ayob]

It was an amazing experience. Considering the place is for motoring enthusiast the amount of Islamiphobic comments on the site are astronomical. The mods even seem to allow people to get away with inflammatory comments like Mosques teach 'Adultery is not the man's fault, the devil works through the woman to ensnare the man.'. I was the only Muslims who spoke up to the idiots and apparently i'm the one that offends. The worst thing is that the forum was populated by educated people too.

Salaam
I don't think Forums like these are good to visit, because they are simply lies, and I see no benfit in them as they don't want to build bridges or anything they rather builder higher and taller walls made of iron ...If that makes sense.
We shouldn't be arguing with non-Muslims much , It is not a healthy thing to do, If some one sincerely wants to know what Islam is then it is okay I guess but otherwise I wouldn't recommend to do so.
P.S- Sorry for the Marriage thing , I guess i mis-understood your first post

Salaam

[Futuwwa]

Are these actual verses from the Quran? Please tell me these are fabrications. If they are real, why would it suprise you that non-muslims would react negatively?

I remember an earlier discussion about it in another thread, so I'll link to it rather than repost it here.

[aamirsaab]

Islamically, if you beat the **** out of your wife, she has every right to phone the police and have you locked up.

[Pygoscelis]

Salaam
I think they stick to translation of beating because they do not understand the Quran very well, and they also beleive that Islam is male dominated religion, I also think it is because of culture.. and they see it normal to fix a woman by beating her..I guess
But the translation is correct, The word has many meanings , because the Word -Darab in Arabic comprehends alot of meaning such as Give,or Multiply..etc

It could be that the Quran was a more woman-friendly book when written and then later generations of muslims (who translated it to this understanding) had a different less woman-friendly and more mysogonist culture. It is interesting to see the difference between this translation and what you say is the original (I can't speak that language so I can not know for sure).

You said "As in" so it is a pre-assumption I guess if you were a Muslim you would be one of these men claiming that God has ordained you to beat your wife It really only shows your true inner reflection.It doesn't say you are acting against God, Why do you have to make such a bad-opinion about a case before it is confirmed?

If a holy book gives you instructions and you fail to follow them, why is it so odd that I'd say that is going against those instructions, and thus against the one who gave them? If God tells you to pray and you don't, it seems to me that'd be going against God. Same here.

It says nothing of my "true inner reflection", since I wouldn't follow it either way (it isn't a holy book to me). It may say something about my reading comprehension of the english language (which is very good), or that the passage is ambiguous (it really isn't), or means what I read it to mean (possible, and scary, hence the question being asked), or points to another flaw in the translation (quite possible and seems to be the case as per what has been stated above).

[Starrynight]

I studied this topic a while back. I heard a scholar (I don't remember his name) say that the translation is not "beat" like Americans think. It means you cannot hit her hard enough to leave a mark, and it is simply a light tap. This was a common belief in the texts I read and video's I watched.
That being said, I still wouldn't be cool with a guy hitting at me even if it didn't hurt.

[May Ayob]

It could be that the Quran was a more woman-friendly book when written and then later generations of muslims (who translated it to this understanding) had a different less woman-friendly and more mysogonist culture. It is interesting to see the difference between this translation and what you say is the original (I can't speak that language so I can not know for sure).

Peace be to you:
I speak that language, but you have to understand that it was more acceptable at time esp. and no one would have questioned the meaning of these verses as it is infamous that it was male trait to beat you wife and treat her like garbage.. this is a point, Non of the Sahabas(Companions of the Prophet ) denied that woman were treated worse than they would treat trash..So in this case even if you are NOT a Muslim and you were living in these centuries you wouldn't be seeing something wrong with that.
The word used in the Holy Quran : was Daraba--
Daraba As i said before comprehends a lot of other meanings as in Give, Multiply...etc
It is a mis-understanding of the verse.
But the Quran was not changed or written by Muslims, If there is any thing that seems biased it would be because the interpreters and the translators did not pay much effort into seeking it's true meaning.

If a holy book gives you instructions and you fail to follow them, why is it so odd that I'd say that is going against those instructions, and thus against the one who gave them? If God tells you to pray and you don't, it seems to me that'd be going against God. Same here.

No , Not really, because Praying and fasting are acts of Worship and they are essential in Islam.
I don't see where it tells you that God s.w.t commands the man to beat the woman if not the man is going against God..
God does not encourage violence In every Surah(Chapter) it begins with His names the Most-Merciful, The Most-Compassionate.
Please note that your words are kind of advocating violence against woman if any Muslim man that is ignorant about their religion read what you said about this then I don't really think he will hesistate in beating his wife because he is "Acting against God's commands"

It says nothing of my "true inner reflection"

Well the way you explain things ( Me you and Everyone else) does actually reflect our true inner whole, This is why I am saying what I am saying and You are saying what you are saying.. It was one verse you gave an explanation , I gave an explanation and we came out with different opinions does it not say a lot about our true inner self, to you it may not , to me it does.

I wouldn't follow it either way (it isn't a holy book to me). It may say something about my reading comprehension of the english language (which is very good), or that the passage is ambiguous (it really isn't), or means what I read it to mean (possible, and scary, hence the question being asked), or points to another flaw in the translation (quite possible and seems to be the case as per what has been stated above).

You don't know the future as unfortunate and unpleasant it might seem to you I will remind you again you never know what will happen to you in the future. May be the points you brought up are true , and maybe not .. the questions you asked were not what would be considered as a question that needs an answer.. You were literally answering your own questions by yourself.
Peace be to you

[ardianto]

Islamically, if you beat the **** out of your wife, she has every right to phone the police and have you locked up.

This is a true story that happened to my wife's friend who has black belt in karate.

She married a man who looked like a good person. However, after married, she knew if her husband is a man who easy to beat her when he's angry. But she tried to keep in patience.

One day her husband beat her again, but now she lost her patience, and hit him back with karate. Her husband knocked out and later reported it to KUA (sharia office) as "Domestic Violence by the wife to the husband". ;D

She got divorced after that. But now she has married again and I think she is happy. I have meet her new husband few times, he is a kind and religious Muslim.

[Perseveranze]

I studied this topic a while back. I heard a scholar (I don't remember his name) say that the translation is not "beat" like Americans think. It means you cannot hit her hard enough to leave a mark, and it is simply a light tap. This was a common belief in the texts I read and video's I watched.
That being said, I still wouldn't be cool with a guy hitting at me even if it didn't hurt.

Actually, some people don't really understand why that verse was revealed and under what context.

This guy explains it well,

(please skip to 6:10 in the video).

Now if people don't want to accept or understand that, then it's their fault/ignorance. Given the hadiths on women etc. Practicing Muslim men certainly treat their wives better then non muslims do or can imagine to do.

[Zafran]

salaam

You mean 14.00 on the video

peace