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GuestFellow
07-20-2011, 06:37 PM
:sl:

The New American Century

It is a good documentary. The ending was hard to watch.
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جوري
07-20-2011, 07:37 PM
you still want to talk about the so-called 'Islamic terrorism' after what those ****s have done to the entire region from Afghanistan to Bosnia? They deserve every last misery and death that befalls them and insha'Allah may they rot in hell eternally. May they be ****ed in this life and the next. Pagan barbarians are so good at projecting their own ills!
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GuestFellow
07-20-2011, 08:24 PM
^ Salaam,

The documentary is about the US foreign policy. It specifically focuses on Project for the New American Century, a thinktank which promotes US dominance. The documentary is, in my opinion, too simplistic, but it does do a good job of summarising of what has happened. I wanted the documentary to explore other thinktanks as well.

I wonder if some westerners still support the troops after watching the documentary, especially the ending.
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Mr.President
07-20-2011, 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
you still want to talk about the so-called 'Islamic terrorism' after what those ****s have done to the entire region from Afghanistan to Bosnia? They deserve every last misery and death that befalls them and insha'Allah may they rot in hell eternally. May they be ****ed in this life and the next. Pagan barbarians are so good at projecting their own ills!
sister I know its really sad when these so called western puppets invade and destroy our muslim brothers,sisters and their countries but please don't say words like this the one almighty god has given them time to change .. yea they do evil acts but its not appropriate to say these kind of words !!!

calm down !
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GuestFellow
07-20-2011, 09:32 PM
Originally Posted by Mr.President
sister I know its really sad when these so called western puppets invade and destroy our muslim brothers,sisters and their countries but please don't say words like this the one almighty god has given them time to change .. yea they do evil acts but its not appropriate to say these kind of words !!!

calm down !
Salaam,

I'm not surprised how some western countries are taking advantage over weaker countries. They were like that for centuries and some people still support their imperial adventure. What angers me is that these Muslim leaders do nothing. They go as far as to welcome US military bases for their own protection which is absolutely foolish.
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جوري
07-20-2011, 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
I wonder if some westerners still support the troops after watching the documentary, especially the ending.

what is it exactly that they think their troops do in there? Hand out peanut brittles? Even the so-called heroic acts they allege to do are so scarce that when any of them does something they have to plaster it on every channel is if to validate their illegal occupations and subjugation.. Sending down bombs with food is always so appreciated.
My sister's oncology suite in a major metropolitan hospital is filled with cancer riddled Muslim children, sometimes sponsored by Muslim families for treatment. Imagine a ten months old girl from Iraq riddled with cancer and one of her parent's is dead because these greedy turds can't satisfy their appetite for Muslim blood.. You never hear about those do you, or why they're being treated just the 'benevolence' of America taking these otherwise untreatable cases as if they didn't cause it to begin with.


Originally Posted by Mr.President
calm down !

I have no desire to be calm he or she who doesn't care for the affairs of Muslim is simply not one of them!
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ProudMuslimSis
07-21-2011, 12:07 AM
So sad!!! And, it seems like our hands are tied and we can't do anything about all this.

The people just get taken advantage of and suffer...like the child pictured above. I hope that the doctors were able to help him.

Sister, was that a tumor that large?
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جوري
07-21-2011, 12:16 AM
Originally Posted by ProudMuslimSis
So sad!!! And, it seems like our hands are tied and we can't do anything about all this.

The people just get taken advantage of and suffer...like the child pictured above. I hope that the doctors were able to help him.

Sister, was that a tumor that large?
I think he has hepatic and renal failure that poor kid may Allah swt grant him shifa'a that is probably ascites, his veins are dilated, with an abdominal hernia it is classical.. can be caused by any number of things including radiation induced tumors..

and Allah swt knows best
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ProudMuslimSis
07-21-2011, 01:11 AM
^^^ Sister, thank you for sharing your knowledge. I tried to PM you but your box is full. I was just going to ask for you to transfer your brain to me... I know there is a medical term for that.
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Who Am I?
07-21-2011, 03:01 AM
:sl:

I skipped ahead to the end.

I can't say that I am surprised by what little I saw. The USA has always had a superiority complex when it comes to dealing with other nations.

I'm glad I never joined the army now when I was in college, or I could have been one of those shown in the video. I might have killed someone who didn't deserve to die, or I could have been killed myself and died as a kuffir.

I am ashamed to call myself a USA'rican now.
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Mr.President
07-21-2011, 03:04 AM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

I have no desire to be calm he or she who doesn't care for the affairs of Muslim is simply not one of them!
dear sister in islam I am not saying that I dont care about gazan people or the ummah I do care but
what I am saying is by typing some **** language in ur text will not bring any benefit

ok When seeing pictures of muslims who r abused and betrayed by this western powers yea we also get angry ! I also can type an article with some dash language so what
whats the benefit ?

Insha allah we should remember them in our prayers WE must ask dua for them bigTime

btw pls calm down cuz u r being offensive !
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User2024
09-10-2011, 12:13 PM
Yeah the ending of this made me very angry...hope the soldiers rot in hell, USA/UK biggest terrorist in the world......
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Abz2000
09-10-2011, 03:51 PM
Originally Posted by Mr.President
btw pls calm down cuz u r being offensive !

yusuf Ali:
Allah loveth not that evil should be noised abroad in public speech, except where injustice hath been done;
for Allah is He who heareth and knoweth all things.

Pickhtall:
Allah loveth not the utterance of harsh speech save by one who hath been wronged. Allah is ever Hearer, Knower.
Quran 4:148

God gave us a nature - and the ability to curse so as not to lose your mind. but told us not to use it unjustly.

scientists have recently found that cursing helps remove pain and stress when you bang your knee or drop something expensive.
possibly psychological retaliation and appeasement
though we are told to remember that all is from God and returns to Him

The Prophet (pbuh) sent Ali forward with this banner and the men hastened to it.
War banners were handed out by Muhammad for each raid, exactly like his ancestor Qusayy.
Ali advanced until when he came near the forts,
he heard insulting language used of The Prophet (pbuh).
He returned to meet The Prophet on the road and told him that it was not necessary for him to come near those rascals.
The Prophet (pbuh) said: "Why? I think you must have heard them speaking ill of me,"
and when Ali said that it was so, he added: "If they saw me they would not talk in that fashion."
When The Prophet (pbuh) approached their forts, he said:
"You brothers of monkeys, has Allah disgraced you and brought his vengeance upon you?" No doubt who's master of insulting.
They replied: "Oh Abul-Qasim, you are not a barbarious person."
Out-insulted, the Jews react instead to the threat of vengeance with a bit of appeasement.



Treaty of Hudaibiyah:

Urwa ibn Mas'ud al Thaqafi, chief of the tribe, was sent by the Qiraish to mediate. When he came before Rasulullah he said:
'O Muhammed , you have gathered together a horde of people of all countries and you have come to your place of birth to smash it with their assistance! Now the Quraish have sworn a most solemn oath, to the effect that never, so long as their eye-lashes quiver on their eye-lid shall you set foot again in Makkah, unless by force of arms, and by our gods! The scum surrounding you will flee from your side before the sun sets on another day'.


At these words a flame of indignation lit up the eyes of the Sahaba (R.A.)
and Abu Bakr (R.A.) went up to the infidel and shouted to him:


'Be gone, and bite the clitoris of Laat. your idol. Do you think for a moment we could abandon Allah's messenger'

'Urwa bin mas'ud is reported to have recognised him and said, if it were not the favour you did for me during such and such, i would have responded to you.

During Urwa ibn Mas'uds conversation with Rasulullah he was able to observe how boundless was the respect of the Sahaba (R.A.) for their leader. When Rasulullah performed his wudhu (ablution) his companions rushed to share the water he had used. Whenever Rasulullah uttered a word everybody tries to fulfil his desire and commands. They speak to him in a soft voice. Out of sheer respect they would never look him straight in the eye.





The Prophet said on the authority of Ubayy Bin Ka'b:
"If anyone proudly asserts his descent in the manner of the pre-Islamic people, tell him to bite his father's penis, and do not use a euphemism"
.Hadith - Mishkat Al-Masabih, Vol. 2, p. 1021

Euphemism is a substitution for an expression that may offend or suggest something unpleasant to the receiver,
using instead an agreeable or less offensive expression, or to make it less troublesome for the speaker.

:p
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Grofica
09-11-2011, 10:36 AM
Originally Posted by PoweredByGoogle
Yeah the ending of this made me very angry...hope the soldiers rot in hell, USA/UK biggest terrorist in the world......
you relize you are being offensive to all of those who are in the US. I think its funny you think so badly of us but yet you frequent a forum where english is spoken. Granted English is something of an international language of communication but with it being in english you have to keep in mind there are going to be a bunch of "us" in here. Brittish and Americans and other EU countries...

You can not blame an entire country because of a few people...

you do relize that the majority of america does not support the various places we are right now but even if we dont support the cause you can support the solider. they dont have the option to quit...

I find your comment very derogitory.... and honestly only Allah can judge you have no right to. So if you really want to get mad start a petition or start a soup kitchen or do something for your area. if we all take care of the area around our homes the whole world will grow so use your anger for something good or get over it. :exhausted
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noorseeker
09-11-2011, 11:10 AM
The truth is most people will turn a blind eye, as long as their way of life is not threatened or enhanced , they dont really care , or dont really want to know.

I ask a question, if the western countries pulled out of countries they are in , who they want to take their resources from, and their economies collapsed
People were out of work i.e

People woudnt be happy. Would we muslims and non muslims give up our luxurious way of life if it meant they were better off and we wont
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MustafaMc
09-11-2011, 12:24 PM
Originally Posted by Grofica
you relize you are being offensive to all of those who are in the US. I think its funny you think so badly of us but yet you frequent a forum where english is spoken. Granted English is something of an international language of communication but with it being in english you have to keep in mind there are going to be a bunch of "us" in here. Brittish and Americans and other EU countries...
The use of English has absolutely nothing to do with speaking the truth. If you watch the last 10 minutes of this video and still feel the same way, then it is clear you side with the oppressor over the oppressed masses of innocent Iraqi civilians. For myself I was born as one of "us" you speak of but my heart goes out to "them".
You can not blame an entire country because of a few people...

you do relize that the majority of america does not support the various places we are right now but even if we dont support the cause you can support the solider. they dont have the option to quit...
Most Americans don't give a dam whether or not we have killed 3 million Vietnamese or 1 million Iraqis. They only care about ther own selfish selfs and whether or not the price of gasoline rises. It is a copout to say "I don't support the war, but I support our troops." The troops VOLUNTEERED to join the military. There is no draft or coercion for them to join. They CHOOSE to join knowing full well they may have to kill people in order to be able to pay for education and whatever else the recruiter promises them.
I find your comment very derogitory.... and honestly only Allah can judge you have no right to. So if you really want to get mad start a petition or start a soup kitchen or do something for your area. if we all take care of the area around our homes the whole world will grow so use your anger for something good or get over it. :exhausted
I am at a loss for words to describe your words IF they come from a Muslim. Again I invite you to watch the last 10 minutes as only a very few examples of what life and death in Iraq are really like, then come back and respond to my post. If you can then tell me to "get over it", your reply tells me where your heart is and I fear for you in giving an account before Allah (swt).
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GuestFellow
09-11-2011, 01:21 PM
Originally Posted by Grofica
you relize you are being offensive to all of those who are in the US. I think its funny you think so badly of us but yet you frequent a forum where english is spoken. Granted English is something of an international language of communication but with it being in english you have to keep in mind there are going to be a bunch of "us" in here. Brittish and Americans and other EU countries...
Salaam,

Language has nothing to do with this.

You can not blame an entire country because of a few people...
He was blaming the soldiers.

you do relize that the majority of america does not support the various places we are right now but even if we dont support the cause you can support the solider. they dont have the option to quit...
If you support the troops, you support the war. The government plans the war and the soldiers carry out those plans. No one forced these soldiers to join the army. Oh they do have the option to quit. Of course there are going to be consequences for choosing to leave the army but they can still leave.

I find your comment very derogitory.... and honestly only Allah can judge you have no right to. So if you really want to get mad start a petition or start a soup kitchen or do something for your area. if we all take care of the area around our homes the whole world will grow so use your anger for something good or get over it. :exhausted
I personally cannot get over all the innocent civilians that have been killed in Iraq.
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Who Am I?
09-11-2011, 05:22 PM
:sl:

You can support the troops insofar as you want them to come home. This is what I do. I don't agree with the so-called "War on Terror" and I don't think the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were justified in any circumstance.

Look, I used to not care. As long as I could do my own thing, I didn't care what happened around me, and the world slowly passed me by. I was content to let it pass me by as long as I could keep drinking, smoking, and chasing girls.

Eventually I woke up and realized that I can't keep pissing my life away. One day I will stand tall before God and give an account of what I have done with my life. What was I going to tell Him? That I spent my whole life that He gave me chasing the pleasures of this world?

Anyway, my point is that I realized that I had to start caring about some things.

I just want the boys to come back home. I just want the killing to stop.
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Abz2000
09-11-2011, 10:26 PM
6a In those days ye shall make your names an eternal execration unto all the righteous,
6b And by you shall all who curse, curse,
And all the sinners and godless shall imprecate by you,
6c And for you the godless there shall be a curse.
6d And all the . . . shall rejoice,
6e And there shall be forgiveness of sins,
6f And every mercy and peace and forbearance:
6g There shall be salvation unto them, a goodly light.
6h And for all of you sinners there shall be no salvation,
6i But on you all shall abide a curse.
7a But for the elect there shall be light and joy and peace,
7b And they shall inherit the earth.

Book of Enoch: 6a-7b



1. The Righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away,
none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.

2. He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness.

3. But draw near hither, ye sons of the adulterer and the who*e.

4. Against whom do ye sport yourselves?

Against whome make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue?

Are ye not the children of transgression, a seed of falsehood,

5. Enflaming yourselves with idols under every green tree,

Slaying the children in the valleys under the clefts of rocks?

ISAIAH 57 : 1-5
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Rhubarb Tart
09-11-2011, 10:33 PM
:sl:People have spoken to ALL Americans to know most Americans don’t give a dam?
Perhaps we can extend further and say most Saudis, Indonesians don’t dive a dam because of what their government do (both countries support USA and one even sell OLI to them, you now the oli that needed to run and used for both wars etc?) I can go and go and cover pretty much most Muslim countries. But I won’t, because it is wrong. And we do this so easily to Americans, like it is right?

Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
He was blaming the soldiers.
no, his last post clearly shows he is blaming most americans.

best regards
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Abz2000
09-11-2011, 10:52 PM
here are the troops i support:





Iraq Veterans Against the War scored a victory for free speech today in Kansas City, MO. A panel of three Marine Corps officers recommended today that Adam Kokesh receive a general discharge under honorable conditions. Adam and his attorney will, however, appeal this finding on the grounds that Adam is entitled to his full honorable discharge. In a seemingly hypocritical contradiction, the Marine Corps panel, as well as the prosecution's key witness, Major Whyte, agreed that the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) does not apply to members of the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR). Regardless of this, several other honorably discharged IVAW members are facing a similar hearing based on their stance against the war. IVAW members will continue to tell the truth about our experiences in Iraq and in the military and fight to bring our brothers and sisters home from Iraq now.
IVAW has just received confirmation from the Washington Post that member Cloy Richards will also be charged by the Marine Corps, but Cloy has not yet received any disciplinary paperwork.
Here's another pic of what got them in hot water in Washington, DC -
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Abz2000
09-11-2011, 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by sweet106
no, his last post clearly shows he is blaming most americans.
maybe you think the Prophet (pbuh) was blaming all Makkans when he would speak of the Makkans?
nah - i don't think so.

maybe you think the people in Amerika hated all Germans when they said "germans" in reference to NAZIs?

maybe you are unaware that Muslims and Islam are so often brought up in the media in conjunction with all the false flag terror attacks the government commits?
ask king of 9's what he thought of Muslims after watching the media hype after 9/11.



maybe they love Iraqis so much that they're bankrupting Amerika to bring "freedom to the children of Iraq":
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GuestFellow
09-11-2011, 11:11 PM
Originally Posted by sweet106
no, his last post clearly shows he is blaming most americans.
:wa:

Can you please show me? I'm having difficulty finding it...
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Rhubarb Tart
09-12-2011, 12:01 AM
Dont treat as if I am stupid, PLEASE explain what YOU mean by "MOST" americans? thanks

Most Americans don't give a dam whether or not we have killed 3 million Vietnamese or 1 million Iraqis. They only care about ther own selfish selfs and whether or not the price of gasoline rises. It is a copout to say "I don't support the war, but I support our troops." The troops VOLUNTEERED to join the military. There is no draft or coercion for them to join. They CHOOSE to join knowing full well they may have to kill people in order to be able to pay for education and whatever else the recruiter promises them.
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Abz2000
09-12-2011, 12:20 AM
i see sparks flying on this forum - nice and lively huh?
it was quite peaceful before but i can see angry red faces today,
angry at each other instead of angry at those who are spreading mischief and corruption throughout the earth.
sweete 106, please help us out by asking fox and the whitehouse not to create hatred by blaming their own false flag attacks on Islam.
thereby generalizing and creating hatred for a whole nation. (remember the ground zero mosque fiasco?)
it seems they walk out of un meetings when world leaders request an independent investigation into events they slanderously blame on Islam,
they haven't even indicted Osama bin laden for the 9/11 attacks due to absence of evidence - yet they continue to illegally make out in the media that he is the perpetrator.
they themselves attempt to ridicule people who refer to it as a malicious cabal who has taken over governance of the country and is incrementally imposing martial law, and call them "conspiracy theorists".
i would say vales lilly is rightly indignant:
watch these vids about righteous hatred, forgive the language:



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MustafaMc
09-12-2011, 01:05 AM
Originally Posted by sweet106
Dont treat as if I am stupid, PLEASE explain what YOU mean by "MOST" americans? thanks
It helps when you quote someone to know who you are addressing. I can only go by the 'most' Americans that I encounter and there is basically no one who will even carry on a conversation about the topic. What I hear is "support our troops" and honoring the dead and wounded soldiers. How many non-Muslim Americans do you know who gives a dam about the millions of civilian people (German, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Afghan, Iraqi) killed by their military in the name of 'democracy' and 'freedom'? Personally, I can't name a single one!
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Rhubarb Tart
09-12-2011, 01:10 AM
:sl:Who said I was angry? I am not angry at all.

So how does it help to generalise the every people you want to persuade to stop hating us?

How do I explain to a non Muslim when they say to me every time they have a debate or have conversation about certain issue about our religion, most Muslims use their culture and society as form of defence? And those particular Muslim don’t see them as ‘individual’ that may not subscribe or agree with their government, culture, religion and society?

I see two type of exchange between Muslims and non Muslims these days.

1) “Liberal” – the type of Muslim that agrees with everything they say and says that Islam agrees with it all.
2) “other” – the type of Muslim that uses their society/government as their main points in the argument. For instance, how does pointing out the music video girls / models in their media or rape statistics persuade a girl to wear the hijab? Bear in mind, most women don’t dress like video girls or model and has never been raped? In particular if you were speaking to someone who already felt they dressed modest like Christian girls who don’t cover her hair? Or pointing out their break down of their family when you are speaking to a gay person.

We need to learn to tailor the conversation towards ‘individual’, stop making them feel like they are being attacked as group.

“Most” Americans are not selfish; it is elite few. Some Americans are poor, can’t afford food and health insurance. Others are working night and day just to have the essential. Others are in debts. So can you imagine an American (who fits into any of the above) who wants to find out more about Islam and read a comment labelling them selfish?
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IslamicRevival
09-12-2011, 01:14 AM
Originally Posted by ProudMuslimSis
I tried to PM you but your box is full. I was just going to ask for you to transfer your brain to me... I know there is a medical term for that.
Lol Brilliant ;D
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Rhubarb Tart
09-12-2011, 01:24 AM
Maybe you need to start tuning into other media and blogs other than right wing ones and arguing with those who you disagree with.
So those videos you posted earlier are what? People that don’t care about the civilians?

Mohamed Ali before he was a Muslim criticise America war on Vietnamese? So did MANY others. Plenty of Americans are still wondering what the hell are they doing in Afghanistan or Iraq in the first place. Look past the mainstream media, look at blogs by non Muslims Americans who are questioning the events of 9/11. Read on academics who on pre 9/11 criticise America support for dictators in the middle east.

goodnight
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Maryan0
09-12-2011, 01:43 AM
Most Americans/Canadians are desensitized people and I guess that's what happens when you are fighting wars that don't hit close to home.
Salam
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GuestFellow
09-12-2011, 03:44 AM
Salaam to all.

Originally Posted by PoweredByGoogle
Yeah the ending of this made me very angry...hope the soldiers rot in hell, USA/UK biggest terrorist in the world......
Originally Posted by MustafaMc
Most Americans don't give a dam whether or not we have killed 3 million Vietnamese or 1 million Iraqis. They only care about ther own selfish selfs and whether or not the price of gasoline rises. It is a copout to say "I don't support the war, but I support our troops." The troops VOLUNTEERED to join the military. There is no draft or coercion for them to join. They CHOOSE to join knowing full well they may have to kill people in order to be able to pay for education and whatever else the recruiter promises them.I am at a loss for words to describe your words IF they come from a Muslim. Again I invite you to watch the last 10 minutes as only a very few examples of what life and death in Iraq are really like, then come back and respond to my post. If you can then tell me to "get over it", your reply tells me where your heart is and I fear for you in giving an account before Allah (swt).
Originally Posted by sweet106
Dont treat as if I am stupid, PLEASE explain what YOU mean by "MOST" americans? thanks
Of course you are not stupid. :/ I think there has been a confusion. When I said, "he was blaming the soldiers", I was referring to brother PoweredByGoogle (I love that name). Are you referring to brother MustafaMc post?
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MustafaMc
09-12-2011, 03:56 AM
Actually, there are Americans who care! I just read an article http://www.islamicity.com/m/news_fra...erenceID=60088 about Jimmy Carter who was president from 1976 to 1980. He was president during the 444 days that Iran held Americans hostage. He authorized a rescue attempt that was botched, but he refused to bomb Teheran. Quoting from the article:

"It's the simple fact of not going to war that, given what came next, should be recognised. "In the last 50 years now, more than that," he says, "that's almost a unique achievement." He was bitterly opposed to both Iraq wars. "Iraq was just a terrible mistake. I thought so in Iraq 1, and I was against it in Iraq 2."

Regrading the hostage crisis:

What could the US do? How could it save the hostages? It was a question that President Carter wrestled with for 444 long days. It paralysed the presidency. Carter refused to campaign for re-election, refused to light the White House Christmas tree, refused to bomb Tehran.

Rosalynn has been quoted as saying that, had her husband bombed Tehran, he would have been re-elected. I put this to Carter. "That's probably true. A lot of people thought that. But it would probably have resulted in the death of maybe tens of thousands of Iranians who were innocent, and in the deaths of the hostages as well. In retrospect I don't have any doubt that I did the right thing. But it was not a popular thing among the public, and it was not even popular among my own advisers inside the White House. Including my wife."

Does anyone think that George (Dubya) Bush considered the death of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis before the invasion of Iraq? I admit to being wrong about Jimmy Carter. I wrote in my high school memories book in 1978, "Mistake of the '70's - election of Jimmy Carter - President or rather 'Peanut Farmer'. " In hindsight I will have to say that I have more admiration and respect for him than any US president since John F. Kennedy. To be honest he was the kind of president who presented America to the world as Americans see themselves, albeit naively so.
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MustafaMc
09-12-2011, 04:05 AM
Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Of course you are not stupid. :/ I think there has been a confusion. When I said, "he was blaming the soldiers", I was referring to brother PoweredByGoogle (I love that name). Are you referring to brother MustafaMc post?
Yep, she was referring to me.

I would like for someone to refute my statement, puh-leeze. I admit that it may be upsetting to my fellow Americans, but, come on now, do 'most Americans' really care about the innocent Iraqi and Afghan civilians or do they care about their 'heroes' such as this puke-inducing quote:

I want to Thank Every Single one of the Service Members that have laid down their lives, and those who still risk their lives for us, each and every day. You help make and keep this country safe. Thank you for always being there Risking Everything for us! who knows where we would be without you.
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Ramadhan
09-12-2011, 04:47 AM
Originally Posted by sweet106
“Most” Americans are not selfish; it is elite few. Some Americans are poor, can’t afford food and health insurance. Others are working night and day just to have the essential. Others are in debts. So can you imagine an American (who fits into any of the above) who wants to find out more about Islam and read a comment labelling them selfish?
Isn't this also the same as saying that "most americans don't give a **** about millions killed in Iraq and Afghanistan"?

I could also say that most Indonesians don't give a **** about Iraq and Afghanistan either, just because people are already burdened by their day to day problems.

If most americans actually gave a **** about millions killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, the troops would all have been withdrawn from the two countries long ago. After all, USA is a democratic country, no? and the wishes of the majority becomes the law, no?

I'm sorry to say this, but I think you have read things not actually written or intended.
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Rhubarb Tart
09-12-2011, 07:48 AM
:sl:No it is nor the same because I said some. America is not democracy in sense that people that VOTE to stop wars. They don’t vote on policies and most politicians don’t do as they say. And does most American even vote?
And what is so democratic about a system where they only have two chooses: republicans or democratic? Both are pretty much the same.
So people in here can say most Americans are don’t give a s**** because of their government. What does that say about Saudis? They don’t give s **** about their fellow Muslims. :hiding:
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Tyrion
09-12-2011, 07:54 AM
Originally Posted by Ramadhan
If most americans actually gave a **** about millions killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, the troops would all have been withdrawn from the two countries long ago. After all, USA is a democratic country, no? and the wishes of the majority becomes the law, no?
Uhh, do you really think it's that simple?
Reply

MustafaMc
09-12-2011, 11:18 AM
Originally Posted by Ramadhan
If most americans actually gave a **** about millions killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, the troops would all have been withdrawn from the two countries long ago. After all, USA is a democratic country, no? and the wishes of the majority becomes the law, no?
Thank you for your comments, but I agree with Brother Tyrion. I believe that USA is controlled by the Corporate Elite and that they control the political system to serve their own selfish capitalistic interests. Democracy in USA is a farce to give people the illusion of public control or even influence over the political process. Anytime you see the words 'democracy' or 'freedom' just substitute the words 'capitalism' and 'exploitation'. Capitalism is an amoral system that desires the transfer of public wealth into the hands of an extremely few people. This Corporate Elite also control the media and what people think. The tragic events of 9/11 cemented this control with instantaneous and almost complete brainwashing and manipulation of the American people to the extent that they don't even realize what has happened to them or to their country, beginning in 2000 with Bush stealing the presidential election from Gore. My perception is that 'most Americans' are more concerned about preserving their own high standard of living and are more worried about either the value of their stock investments or the continued flow of social security and welfare checks than they are about justice and the suffering of people outside the borders of USA.

The plan for establishing American domination of the world was laid out in a report 'Rebuilding America's Defenses' published in September 2000 by a neo-conservative thinktank, 'Project for a New American Century' http://www.newamericancentury.org/Re...asDefenses.pdf There is a single sentence that is often quoted in context of 9/11, "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor". Now if you stop and think about it, it does not make any sense to just sit around twiddling-one's-thumbs and waiting for a 'new Pearl Harbor' to happen with the timing and magnitude for inducing the desired effect. If a traumatic, catalyzing event is desired to initiate a transformation of society into a 'New World Order' then it makes a lot more sense to go out there, secretly make it happen and then blame it on the most likely threat in a massive false flag operation, just like the Reichstag Fire in 1933.
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Grofica
09-12-2011, 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by MustafaMc
The use of English has absolutely nothing to do with speaking the truth.
No but if you hate us english people so much stop frequenting places with so many english and american folk.

Originally Posted by MustafaMc
If you watch the last 10 minutes of this video and still feel the same way, then it is clear you side with the oppressor over the oppressed masses of innocent Iraqi civilians.
1. I cant watch youtube. and 2. if you feel so strongly then why dont you come over here (iraq) and hold a pretty little sign in protest.

Originally Posted by MustafaMc
For myself I was born as one of "us" you speak of but my heart goes out to "them"..
Fantastic and mine too but things were worse here when there was a dictator in power. oh wait you would actually have to had been here to see it huh...

Originally Posted by MustafaMc
The troops VOLUNTEERED to join the military. There is no draft or coercion for them to join. They CHOOSE to join knowing full well they may have to kill people in order to be able to pay for education and whatever else the recruiter promises them.
Is it more dishonorable to sit on a forum and complain about things you will never change or be out in the thick of things and try to make an impact where you can. A person can only affect the things around them but kindness is contagous..

Originally Posted by MustafaMc
I am at a loss for words to describe your words IF they come from a Muslim. Again I invite you to watch the last 10 minutes as only a very few examples of what life and death in Iraq are really like, then come back and respond to my post. If you can then tell me to "get over it", your reply tells me where your heart is and I fear for you in giving an account before Allah (swt).
And i am at a loss for words how you can be so judgemental forsaking the very pinacle of the faith. Do not fear for me brother... if you really wanted to make a change you would be here and not on a soap box crying about things you will never do anything to change.

Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
I personally cannot get over all the innocent civilians that have been killed in Iraq.
and what of those who were killed by a tyrant before there were news crews to televise it. Dont get me wrong i dont think everything is peachy and perfect life is not peachy and perfect but if you think that that tyrant was all sugar and lollipops well wow....


Someone mentioned something about the media and showing islam in a bad light... well im not saying that is right but people are scared of what they dont understand. When hitler was killing people... people were scared it took time to get over it and the germans showing they were not bad people because 1 person was insaine... if you are fuled by nothing but anger than nothing will ever change. you will only expand their reason for fear. If you want to make a difference go get involved in community events and people will come to you with kindness. :exhausted
Reply

GuestFellow
09-12-2011, 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by Grofica
and what of those who were killed by a tyrant before there were news crews to televise it. Dont get me wrong i dont think everything is peachy and perfect life is not peachy and perfect but if you think that that tyrant was all sugar and lollipops well wow....
Salaam,

I'm not sure what you mean. Can you please elaborate?
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Ramadhan
09-12-2011, 02:54 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by sweet106
America is not democracy in sense that people that VOTE to stop wars. They don’t vote on policies and most politicians don’t do as they say. And does most American even vote?
I understand that.
However, voters can vote off politicians if they found them not delivering on their promise or lie to them or didn't get the results people wanted.
Fact: Bush got re-elected in 2004 even after it was clear that he invaded Iraq on lies and even after thousands and thousands of innocent afghanistan and iraqis were killed by the troops or by others who they gave support to.
The republicans and their president candidate lost big time in 2008 not because of iraq and Afghanistan, but because of the economic meltdown and financial crises.

As of now, there is no sign when USA will ever totally withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama has made promises pre election, and did he keep those promises? no.
He is making new promises, and do people actually believe him? (and there is more than good chance obama will get re-elected)
Do most americans care? nuh uh. As long as they can pay their mortagages and stuff their houses with so many useless things they can find in wal mart, they are not too concerned with politics, let alone foreign affairs, even if their country is wreaking havoc in other parts of the world.
This shows again that most americans do not care about the those innocent lives killed in Iraq and Afghanistan during invasion and occupation.
There were probably more americans concerned about getting the latest info about kim kardashian wedding than about civilians lives getting killed in iraq and afghanistan.

Originally Posted by sweet106
And what is so democratic about a system where they only have two chooses: republicans or democratic? Both are pretty much the same.
last time I heard uncle sam wants the world to be as "democratic" as they are.

Originally Posted by sweet106
So people in here can say most Americans are don’t give a s**** because of their government
So we agree that most americans don't give a d amn (regardless of motive).

Originally Posted by sweet106
What does that say about Saudis? They don’t give s **** about their fellow Muslims.
I find it baffling and ironic how you give clear enemies of Islam (who support Israel that killed palestinians, invaded and occupied two muslim countries and killed directly and indirectly a million muslims in the process) the benefit of a doubt (and got upset when someone called most americans don't give a d amn) but are pretty confident that a whole muslims nation (saudia) don't give a d amn about fellow muslims.
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جوري
09-12-2011, 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by Grofica
No but if you hate us english people so much stop frequenting places with so many english and american folk.
This is one of the most unseasoned replies that's usually peddled by folks of a certain intellect to like minded individuals. It is almost insulting to read, it has no substance or meaning whatsoever. On the lowest common denominator get all your troops out of every sovereign nation and then come and discuss this desire of yours.. Further holding an American nationality doesn't actually make you one of and I see that every day with Muslim Americans who are treated like crap.. and if such is the case. Br. Mustapha is as anglosaxon as they get generations back..

I didn't want to dwell on it before but I'll say it again, if you don't care for the affairs of Muslims, you're simply not one of them..

best,
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جوري
09-12-2011, 03:19 PM
Do you trust this govt.?
http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/t...in-ladens.html
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Rhubarb Tart
09-12-2011, 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by Ramadhan
:sl:



I understand that.
However, voters can vote off politicians if they found them not delivering on their promise or lie to them or didn't get the results people wanted.
Fact: Bush got re-elected in 2004 even after it was clear that he invaded Iraq on lies and even after thousands and thousands of innocent afghanistan and iraqis were killed by the troops or by others who they gave support to.
The republicans and their president candidate lost big time in 2008 not because of iraq and Afghanistan, but because of the economic meltdown and financial crises.

As of now, there is no sign when USA will ever totally withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama has made promises pre election, and did he keep those promises? no.
He is making new promises, and do people actually believe him? (and there is more than good chance obama will get re-elected)
Do most americans care? nuh uh. As long as they can pay their mortagages and stuff their houses with so many useless things they can find in wal mart, they are not too concerned with politics, let alone foreign affairs, even if their country is wreaking havoc in other parts of the world.
This shows again that most americans do not care about the those innocent lives killed in Iraq and Afghanistan during invasion and occupation.
There were probably more americans concerned about getting the latest info about kim kardashian wedding than about civilians lives getting killed in iraq and afghanistan.



last time I heard uncle sam wants the world to be as "democratic" as they are.



So we agree that most americans don't give a d amn (regardless of motive).



I find it baffling and ironic how you give clear enemies of Islam (who support Israel that killed palestinians, invaded and occupied two muslim countries and killed directly and indirectly a million muslims in the process) the benefit of a doubt (and got upset when someone called most americans don't give a d amn) but are pretty confident that a whole muslims nation (saudia) don't give a d amn about fellow muslims.
When a whole nation sit back and watch their government sell their oil to nations (that also includes Israel) who are involved in wars against their own brother and sisters, then I can safely assume they don’t give a s****.
Do you think USA can still be equally 'powerful' if Saudi turns around and says no?

Just like most people in here can safely assume most Americans don’t give an s****.

And you need to learn to read my comment carefully. I said IF we can so easily assume MOST Americans don’t give an s**** then we can equally assume Saudi don’t give an s****.

I mean how did Saudi get so rich so easily? American big houses, shopping mall = Saudi big houses and shopping mall all are from blood money. The Saudi even supports NATO actions in Libya.

P.S. I don’t know if Most Saudis care but I can easily assume so. I choose not to. And I was never upset, so anyone who disagree with anyone here is upset? :?
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Rhubarb Tart
09-12-2011, 03:50 PM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

This is one of the most unseasoned replies that's usually peddled by folks of a certain intellect to like minded individuals. It is almost insulting to read, it has no substance or meaning whatsoever. On the lowest common denominator get all your troops out of every sovereign nation and then come and discuss this desire of yours.. Further holding an American nationality doesn't actually make you one of and I see that every day with Muslim Americans who are treated like crap.. and if such is the case. Br. Mustapha is as anglosaxon as they get generations back.. I don't like ganging up on someone on a forum but in your case you're almost begging for it.

I didn't want to dwell on it before but I'll say it again, if you don't care for the affairs of Muslims, you're simply not one of them..

best,
:sl:

She only started practising recently. So her sense of American nationality is still strong or present... Just give her a chance to grow.
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جوري
09-12-2011, 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by sweet106
:sl:

She only started practising recently. So her sense of American nationality is still strong or present... Just give her a chance to grow.
Ok sis, but national pride isn't an Islamic trait it is a tribal pre-Islamic abomination .. One should stand for justice and truth even if it be against oneself as is so written on the prophet's sword.

:w:
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Rhubarb Tart
09-12-2011, 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

Ok sis, but national pride isn't an Islamic trait it is a tribal pre-Islamic abomination .. One should stand for justice and truth even if it be against oneself as is so written on the prophet's sword.

:w:
I know but it is hard to shake off when you have been brought up in society that makes you think like that. imsad
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Who Am I?
09-12-2011, 05:35 PM
:sl:

I too struggle with reconciling my past with my present. I too am at a crossroads. I too am caught between the East and the West. On the outside, I am all American. On the outside I am a typical working-class white dude struggling to pay bills and make ends meet. On the outside I worry about my finances just like most other Americans.

On the inside, I am in turmoil. My past is fading, and my present is a confused jumble of thoughts and emotions as I struggle to come to terms with my new faith and new way of life. On the inside I am a confused Westerner with Eastern ideals.

Give some of us the benefit of a doubt, yeah?
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Abz2000
09-12-2011, 09:12 PM
this should give you an example of how much they "care" or what they care about, i'm not generalising all Americans - coz it happens all around the world, but you must admit that the american, israeli and british people are among the most misinformed of true facts on the ground due to the copious amounts of tv and mainstream news they consume (yes - i am british - and no i don't watch tv anymore unless i'm visiting at a friends or relatives, even then i try to numb my mind as the anchor speaks). even among the most educated, we see the same frame of thought you see on the tv. then again - orwell predicted it, and so did the "learned elders".

please watch the clips before you comment





3. In order to distract people who may be too troublesome from discussions of questions of the political we are now putting forward what we allege to be new questions of the political, namely, questions of industry. In this sphere let them discuss themselves silly! The masses are agreed to remain inactive, to take a rest from what they suppose to be political (which we trained them to in order to use them as a means of combating the GOY governments) only on condition of being found new employments, in which we are prescribing them something that looks like the same political object. In order that the masses themselves may not guess what they are about WE FURTHER DISTRACT THEM WITH AMUSEMENTS, GAMES, PASTIMES, PASSIONS, PEOPLE'S PALACES .... SOON WE SHALL BEGIN THROUGH THE PRESS TO PROPOSE COMPETITIONS IN ART, IN SPORT IN ALL KINDS: these interests will finally distract their minds from questions in which we should find ourselves compelled to oppose them. Growing more and more unaccustomed to reflect and form any opinions of their own, people will begin to talk in the same tone as we because we alone shall be offering them new directions for thought ... of course through such persons as will not be suspected of solidarity with us.

written over one hundred years ago - before the olympics went mainstream


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MustafaMc
09-12-2011, 11:47 PM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
Further holding an American nationality doesn't actually make you one of and I see that every day with Muslim Americans who are treated like crap.. and if such is the case. Br. Mustapha is as anglosaxon as they get generations back..
Yes, you are correct. I am an American of Scottish descent and I don't know how I could have any more 'AngloSaxon' blood running through my veins. Yet I hold this as nothing to be either proud or ashamed of. I am proud to be a Muslim and I feel blessed and privileged to have been guided to Islam. When I made hajj last year, I felt completely accepted there despite the fact that I saw exceedingly few brothers with skin as freckled and fair as mine.
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
One should stand for justice and truth even if it be against oneself as is so written on the prophet's sword.

:w:
Again, ukhti, you are exactly correct.
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MustafaMc
09-12-2011, 11:59 PM
Originally Posted by King of Nines
On the inside, I am in turmoil. My past is fading, and my present is a confused jumble of thoughts and emotions as I struggle to come to terms with my new faith and new way of life. On the inside I am a confused Westerner with Eastern ideals.

Give some of us the benefit of a doubt, yeah?
I can relate to where you are today as I was there in the early 80's. It is a major adjustment to becoming a Muslim. Please, don't get discouraged like I did and stop practicing for 15 years.
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MustafaMc
09-13-2011, 12:17 AM
Originally Posted by Grofica
No but if you hate us english people so much stop frequenting places with so many english and american folk.
I don't hate 'us english people'. As I have already said, I am an American of Scottish (sorry not English) descent who converted to Islam.
if you feel so strongly then why dont you come over here (iraq) and hold a pretty little sign in protest.
I take it that you are an American soldier/warrior on a tour of duty in Iraq. If so, I hope you return safely to USA as soon as possible. I am sorry if I had offended you as I hadn't considered the possibility that a Muslim would join the US Army. Perhaps you could enlighten me with your reasons for doing so.
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Grofica
09-13-2011, 01:08 PM
Originally Posted by sweet106
:sl:

She only started practicing recently. So her sense of American nationality is still strong or present... Just give her a chance to grow.
Why does being Muslim mean that you can not love your country? Muslim does not mean anti-American. It is possible to love god and country...


Originally Posted by MustafaMc
I take it that you are an American soldier/warrior on a tour of duty in Iraq.
I have been in Iraq since 2004 until today. (Well with a short break when I had to go home for surgery... (health related not due to any "outside" source)

Originally Posted by MustafaMc
If so, I hope you return safely to USA as soon as possible. I am sorry if I had offended you as I hadn't considered the possibility that a Muslim would join the US Army. Perhaps you could enlighten me with your reasons for doing so.
You do realize there are LOTS of Muslims in the military right? According to the defense department somewhere in between 10,000 – 20,000 Muslims are in the service (between Army, Airforce, Marines, Navy, etc)

In the United States, Islam is the fastest growing religion, a trend fueled mostly by immigration. There are 5 million to 7 million Muslims in the United States. They make up between 10,000 and 20,000 members of the American military.

Read more: http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=44689
One of the people who had the biggest influence on my life was a Muslim Chaplin. I hit a really rough patch and without getting into the gory details in a way I believe he saved me. It was the first time in my entire life that anyone ever really listened to what I had to say. And he actually gave me my first Koran. It wasn’t until years later that I actually converted but he did have a huge impact on my life.

I am sorry but I can’t get over how most of you confuse religion with country...

An interesting quote for your review:

All of the Muslim service members said they would have no problem going to war against terrorism. "This isn't about Islam," Bakkar-Poe said. "It's about terrorism."

http://www.theamerican-----------/tam...litary/0013612

And your confusing Muslim with always right…. A quote by Mohammed Ali:

"When Mohammed Ali, the boxing champ, visited the attack site at the World Trade Center, a reporter asked him, 'How do you feel about the suspected hijackers sharing your faith?'" Yee noted. Ali answered, "How do you feel about Hitler sharing yours?"

The point, said Yee, is that while a person can be of a certain faith, his or her actions don't always fall within the teachings of that faith.

Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/articl...#ixzz1Xpx6gfDy

With so much hostility it's not hard to see why so many people are afraid... what happened to showing people kindness and love and leading them to the truth through love????? This actually makes me more sad then anything...
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Abz2000
09-13-2011, 02:16 PM
Terrorism? It's the us and british governments that are promoting terrorism all over the planet, it was they that created alqaeda to fight the soviets, it is they that have held on to assets in alqaeda and have just installed an alqaeda man in Libya, it is the us government who are responsible for the biggest acts of terrorism on this planet - research Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the definition of : terrorism.

Being patriotic doesnt mean believing lying politicians blindly,
You knew that Iraq was a lie and that war was illegal from get go,
How can one be so naive as to think they're there for a good cause?
It's like someone saying they were attacking medina as allies of quraish in order to fight terrorism, doesn't hold, the quraish were the terrorists who murdered people just for saying there's one God, the first martyr was a woman named sumayyah who was killed in an unspeakable way,
How could one be a member of the SS and convince themselves they were only there to fight terrorist elements?
No offence meant, but I feel a responsibility to remind despite my own shortcomings,
Peace
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Grofica
09-13-2011, 02:31 PM
Originally Posted by abz2000
Terrorism? It's he us and british governments that are promoting terrorism all over the planet, it was they that created alqaeda to fight the soviets, it is they that have held on to assets in alqaeda and have just installed an alqaeda man in Libya, it is the us government who are responsible for the biggest acts of terrorism on this planet - research Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the definition of : terrorism.

Being patriotic doesnt mean believing lying politicians blindly,
You knew that Iraq was a lie and that war was illegal from get go,
Bow can yu be so naive as to think you're there for a good cause?
No offence meant,
Peace
1. i NEVER said i beleived the politicians and if you ever read any of my profiles (except for maybe this one becaues they dont allow non-english and i will try to translate...... it says all politicians are sheysters... like not lier or theif but some combination of the two)

2. You are right I am so naive. Sadam was a fabulous leader who loved all his people and gave them lots of food and treated them so well. and we do mistreat all the locals thats why the kids faces light up when they get toys and come to spend time with us. and the mothers that hug us (im female) and say thank you they were better off before. the tears in their eyes and thank yous are pointless and meaningless. so the good that gets done here is stupid and pointless and all the people who get vacinations and medicine we should stop right?

while i am at it maybe I should try to start a rally so those of us who strive to be the best we can and to make a difference in our own little ways... maybe i can convince them that since so many people hate us and spit on us that maybe we should all just go jump off a cliff. and the sad part is, its the people at home... our friends, our family, our brothers, our sisters, the other members of our faith that are supposed to uplift us and give us courage to continue... you are right. no one should try to achieve anything... because its not a good cause. screw the mothers and their children and the smiles and laughter and tears of joy and hugs. because its not a good cause...

but before i start a ralley to try to convince all the people with some hope for the world they should stop... you want to know why you never hear about that? not in the news not in the papers... because it doesnt sell. news is there to make money not report anything accuratly...

im done... im through... i am actually sick to my stomach. the lack of compassion in here is staggering. you care only for yourselves and nothing for those around you. thank you for being so loving and understanding i am sure you will win many friends and loved ones with your devotion to kindness.
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جوري
09-13-2011, 02:53 PM
How much do they pay you to write this emotive drivel?
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Ramadhan
09-13-2011, 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by Grofica
Why does being Muslim mean that you can not love your country? Muslim does not mean anti-American. It is possible to love god and country...
It is related by Abu Musa Ash’ari (ra) that The Messenger of Allah said "The connection between Muslims is like that of a strong building - one part strengthens another." The Prophet then showed this by interlocking the fingers of one hand with those of the other (that Muslims should remain united and combined - thereby strengthening one another).

As related by Huthaifah (ra) the Prophet said: "Whoever does not take an interest in the affairs and problems of the Muslims, he is not of them. And whoever’s state is such that, each morning and evening, he is not loyal and earnest to Allah, his Apostle, His Book, the Islamic ruler and towards the Muslims, as a whole, he is not of them."

"And hold fast to the covenant of God, all together, and remember the favour of God upon you when you were enemies, then He united your hearts so by His favour you became brethren, and you were on the brink of a pit of fire, then He saved you from it; thus does God make clear to you His communications that you may follow the right way" (Q3:3).

”The most loved person by Allah Almighty on the Day of Judgment and nearest to Him is a just ruler. And the most hated person by Allah Almighty on the Day of Judgment and farthest from Him is an unjust ruler.” (Tirmizi)

“If a Muslim loves his Muslim brother, he should inform him.” (Tirmizi)

Allah would say on the Day of Judgment: “Where are those who love each other for the sake of My glory? Today I will shelter them with My shade, as there is no shade today except My shade”.” (Muslim)

”None of you will truly believe until you love for your brother (in Islam) what you love for yourself”. (Al-Bukhari)

Anas (ra) reports that Rasulullah (s) once said: "I swear by the Holy Being in whose power my life is, any one of you cannot be a true believer unless he desires for his fellow-brother what he desires for himself."

When giving commands regarding the Islamic Brotherhood, the Qur’an uses a beautiful style with a profound message. Instead of saying, "greet each other" it says, "greet yourself." [An-Nur 24:61]. Instead of saying, "do not defame each other," it says, "do not defame yourself." [Al-Hujurat 49:11]. Instead of saying, "do not kill each other," it says, "do not kill yourself." [An-Nisaa 4:29]. The message is clear: Whatever is happening to others in the Brotherhood, is actually happening to yourself. Any aggression against any part of the Brotherhood is an aggression against all of it.

"It is sufficient evil for a Muslim that he should look down upon his brother. The life, wealth, and honor of a Muslim are inviolable by another Muslim." [Sahih Muslim].

"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves.... " [Al-Fat-h 48:29].

The Prophet (s) said: "You cannot enter paradise unless you become a total believer and you won’t become a total believer unless you love each other."

Allah’s Messenger (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: "A Muslim is the brother of another Muslim, so he should not oppress him, forsake him, or despise him."

"The believers are but brothers, so make settlement between your brothers. And fear Allah that you may receive mercy." (QS. hujurat:10)
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جوري
09-13-2011, 03:16 PM
of the 6 Iraqi friends that I have excluding those who are colleagues and dear friends of my father, I have not encountered one that shares this lady's sentiment ..regardless of whether Sadaam was an SOB or not...Sadaam the poor cretin didn't play it right like the rest of the despots they don't know how to keep their friends..When he decided to sell that oil in Euros it pretty much sealed his fate..small despotic puppets are a plaything to the powers that be.. but if you think the American army is there out of the good of their heart and they want to help you, or if you skulk & brow nose them sufficiently that you'll live in comfort & riches I urge you to have another look at how fast they dropped their 'friends' when their own interest came to the foray..


is anyone that naive though?
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Ramadhan
09-13-2011, 03:22 PM
If the US government truly cares about Iraq and Afghanistan and has no other motive but altruism, then it should withdraw all military personnel and only send doctors, nurses, engineers, builders, etc and give money to build school, hospital, roads, bridges, etc. and only when the Iraqis and Afghanistan wants it.
Otherwise it's all baloney.
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Abz2000
09-13-2011, 03:27 PM
I guess I was wrong, bush must have loved the Iraqi people so much that he wanted to liberate them from that tyrant who his father armed to the teeth, and also used against Iran, before hanging him and getting Shias to cheer in a photoshoot,

Sorry for thinking that bush was a lying traitor and that he brutally murdered over a million innocent Iraqis out of greed,

I guess the WMD threat must've been a lie to secretly free the Iraqis from their previously pro us dictator who was now serving the interests of his people,

Even the nazis were all for freedom:


The flag is high, the ranks are firmly closed
S.A. marches in quiet steady step,
Comrades shot by the Red Front and Reactionists
Their Spirits march within our ranks!
Comrades shot by Red Front and Reactionists
Their Spirits march within our ranks

Clear the street for brown Battalions
Clear the street for storm-troops.!
Already millions look with hope to the Swastika
The day for freedom and for bread is here.
Already millions look in hope to the Swastika
The day for freedom and for bread has began.

For the last time the trumpets are calling !
We are ready for struggle
Soon Hitlers flags will flutter over all the streets
The enslavement will end shortly.
Soon Hitlers flags flutter over all the streets
The enslavement will end shortly.



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Grofica
09-13-2011, 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by Ramadhan
If the US government truly cares about Iraq and Afghanistan and has no other motive but altruism, then it should withdraw all military personnel and only send doctors, nurses, engineers, builders, etc and give money to build school, hospital, roads, bridges, etc. and only when the Iraqis and Afghanistan wants it.
Otherwise it's all baloney.
rolling eyes it is and it has.... lots of schools and hospitals have been built and roads and bridges built...
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Abz2000
09-13-2011, 03:36 PM
You mean the bombed ones, or a fraction of the bombed ones?
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جوري
09-13-2011, 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by Grofica
rolling eyes it is and it has.... lots of schools and hospitals have been built and roads and bridges built...
That's nice especially after assassinating 530 Iraqi scientists & intellectuals ..
http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/pu...le_21935.shtml

they've done their part, structures are there now per your allegations..so why are the women taking to the streets in prostitution?


also looting the treasures of the birth of civilization must be another way to rebuild (American style)


snap snap loot loot


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Ramadhan
09-13-2011, 03:50 PM
Originally Posted by Grofica
rolling eyes it is and it has.... lots of schools and hospitals have been built and roads and bridges built...
Ah, then the news media has deceived me again for saying that there are hundreds of thousands of US military still occupying Afghanistan and Iraq, that there are fighter jets and drones carpet bombing whole villages.
When did Obama pulled back all the military and tanks and bombs?
I must have missed some important news.

*not rolling eyes*
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SFatima
09-13-2011, 06:01 PM
Hey all, I have worked in the NGO sector, and we've had links to people from NGOs in Afghanistan, just so you know that the only hospitals ( small ones) they have made is for their own army, security is too tight for even normal Afghan people to be served in those hospitals.. BUT yes there are a few Foreign doctors who work for people in Afghan built hospitals, but if you ask , these hospitals look like dungeons, have almost no medical supplies, since most of the real hospitals have been destroyed in the bombings. Schools hospitals buildings, everything is destroyed, only prison cells and Govt. functionaries remain..

The Only real hospital that was built after the war in Afghanistan was entirely funded and built by the Chinese govt, somewhat completed in 2009, in the capital of Afgh. Kabul, and sad to say the rest of the bombed Afghanistan is in shambles with no where to go.

It is the Only modern , newest hospital of Afghanistan, a 350 bed hospital, initial cost 25 million US dollars, running cost, another huge amount, being covered somewhat by the chinese. You can check it out here,

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90776/90883/6729877.html


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Who Am I?
09-13-2011, 06:51 PM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
of the 6 Iraqi friends that I have excluding those who are colleagues and dear friends of my father, I have not encountered one that shares this lady's sentiment ..regardless of whether Sadaam was an SOB or not...Sadaam the poor cretin didn't play it right like the rest of the despots they don't know how to keep their friends..When he decided to sell that oil in Euros it pretty much sealed his fate..small despotic puppets are a plaything to the powers that be.. but if you think the American army is there out of the good of their heart and they want to help you, or if you skulk & brow nose them sufficiently that you'll live in comfort & riches I urge you to have another look at how fast they dropped their 'friends' when their own interest came to the foray..


is anyone that naive though?
:sl:

Look at how quickly the US sold out Mubarak (one of the most solid US allies in North Africa) in the name of "freedom".

I never really thought Saddam was a true Muslim anyway. I think he professed the faith, but used it for his own agendas (as too many leaders have done throughout history).
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جوري
09-13-2011, 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by King of Nines
:sl:

Look at how quickly the US sold out Mubarak (one of the most solid US allies in North Africa) in the name of "freedom".

I never really thought Saddam was a true Muslim anyway. I think he professed the faith, but used it for his own agendas (as too many leaders have done throughout history).
It wasn't really in the name of freedom and I promise you they don't care who is in that seat by 'free fair and ''democratic''' elections so long as he who is seated carries the same amero-fundie/zionist agenda..You should see how they're sending their devils there every day to sow the seeds of discord create schisms and possibly the best of all for their interests a civil war...

Here in the U.S people think they have the freedom to choose too but they don't.. they all carry the same exact agenda and delude the people that they're free..

I was just reading about the raids on Amish farms
http://blog.heritage.org/2011/04/30/...ulatory-state/

No one is spared in the police state if you don't conform to their idea of 'freedom, democracy' and other meaningless slogans ..pretty much all that will be left are cattle (non-whites) and masters (super rich white Zionist corporate america) power & money in the hands of a select few!

:w:
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SFatima
09-13-2011, 08:24 PM
SILENCE!!! or I'll



[IMG] Attachment 4329[/IMG]



Everybody please be mindful of new reverts, and of saying things out of a cannon, or ELSE!!:raging:


you know what happens when afghans are provoked!!!

Ok now everybody smile, say cheese please and have cupcakes and send greetings to each other! Now!

:anger:
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SFatima
09-13-2011, 08:25 PM
double post!
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Abz2000
09-13-2011, 10:15 PM
i found the obl interview where he clearly said targeting of innocents is against islam and something he condemns:

I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks,
nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act.
Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people.
Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle.
It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam
. All that is going on in Palestine for the last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of God upon the United States and Israel. There is also a warning for those Muslim countries, which witnessed all these as a silent spectator. What had earlier been done to the innocent people of Iraq, Chechnya and Bosnia? Only one conclusion could be derived from the indifference of the United States and the West to these acts of terror and the patronage of the tyrants by these powers that America is an anti-Islamic power and it is patronizing the anti-Islamic forces. Its friendship with the Muslim countries is just a show, rather deceit. By enticing or intimidating these countries, the United States is forcing them to play a role of its choice. Put a glance all around and you will see that the slaves of the United States are either rulers or enemies of Muslims...............
..............I will give you an example. Drug smugglers from all over the world are in contact with the U.S. secret agencies. These agencies do not want to eradicate narcotics cultivation and trafficking because their importance will be diminished. The people in the U.S. Drug Enforcement Department are encouraging drug trade so that they could show performance and get millions of dollars worth of budget. General Noriega was made a drug baron by the CIA and, in need, he was made a scapegoat. In the same way, whether it is President Bush or any other U.S. President, they cannot bring Israel to justice for its human rights abuses or to hold it accountable for such crimes. What is this? Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United Sates? That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks.

Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive.

continue to article:
http://911review.com/articles/usamah/khilafah.html




Reply

GuestFellow
09-13-2011, 10:48 PM
Originally Posted by Grofica
rolling eyes it is and it has.... lots of schools and hospitals have been built and roads and bridges built...
Asslamu Aliakum

The problem is many Iraqi civilians have been killed, tortured and raped. Many Iraqis have been displaced. The current government in Iraq is incompetent. There is no point invading a country, destroying it, try to rebuild it and then expect people to be happy. US also placed sanctions on Iraq which caused many problems.
Reply

Who Am I?
09-13-2011, 10:52 PM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

It wasn't really in the name of freedom and I promise you they don't care who is in that seat by 'free fair and ''democratic''' elections so long as he who is seated carries the same amero-fundie/zionist agenda..You should see how they're sending their devils there every day to sow the seeds of discord create schisms and possibly the best of all for their interests a civil war...

Here in the U.S people think they have the freedom to choose too but they don't.. they all carry the same exact agenda and delude the people that they're free..

I was just reading about the raids on Amish farms
http://blog.heritage.org/2011/04/30/...ulatory-state/

No one is spared in the police state if you don't conform to their idea of 'freedom, democracy' and other meaningless slogans ..pretty much all that will be left are cattle (non-whites) and masters (super rich white Zionist corporate america) power & money in the hands of a select few!

:w:
:sl:

I agree with you here, sister. We are on the same side here.

Daily our freedoms are taken and most people don't even realize it. Most people just go along with whatever the government says. The government says that Muslims are responsible for 9/11, so most people just say "yeah, man. Get those fundies!"

Freedom of speech only applies so long as you agree with the majority. Try speaking a dissenting viewpoint and see how much freedom of speech you get. See how long it takes you to be labelled as a "racist" or "homophobe" or even "traitor". I know, I've been there. Recently I was labelled as a traitor to my race and to my country simply because I posted in another board that I am a white Muslim convert. I wasn't surprised by the reaction. It was what I expected given the circumstances. I mainly did it as a test. But my point is that I was given no chance to explain. So much for "free speech".

Just today I read that the poverty gap in the US is the largest it has ever been. The middle class is being eroded, and soon there will only be the very rich and the rest of us poor.

This is not the same country I was born in 35 years ago. I don't even recognize what the US has become now...
Reply

جوري
09-13-2011, 10:57 PM
It is scary isn't it.. I was looking into Canada today..I think it will just continue to get worst until there's a WWIII or an 'Armageddon' known in arabic as 'mal7ama' ...
There's nothing to lose when you've lost everything.. that's why effete invaders do so poorly in Afghanistan time & time again!
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MustafaMc
09-13-2011, 11:14 PM
Brother K of 9s, you hit the nail on the head with that one. The thing is though that I don't think the real sh** has hit the fan yet, but I believe it is coming in a BIG way. First there was vodoo economics, then NAFTA, then 9/11, then the Patriot Act, then 2 criminal and exceedingly expensive wars, then 2008 financial crisis with $$$$$$ bailout. What comes next only Allah (swt) knows.
Reply

Abz2000
09-13-2011, 11:26 PM
Originally Posted by King of Nines
This is not the same country I was born in 35 years ago. I don't even recognize what the US has become now...
you're not the only one who feels it, here's a song which captures the mood:




some intriguing comments:
  • THIS SHOULD BE THE NEW NATIONAL ANTHEM!


    CoachJDfett 9 months ago 31
I'm 62 years old. I know the America you speak of. But I do not expect it of the political system, I expect it of my fellow man/woman. If you want to find "America", in the words of Ghandi: be the change you want to see in the world. And in the words of my all time favorite person Jesus Christ, "love your neighbor as yourself"! Then maybe you will see the America you all mourn for.


Annettesmusic 7 months ago
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Abz2000
09-13-2011, 11:30 PM
and this video puts into easy perspective how it's been done:
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MustafaMc
09-14-2011, 01:51 AM
I just read the book "9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out" which ends with this quote, "They claim to be super-patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution. They demand free enterprise, but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest. Their final objective toward which all their deceit is directed is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjugation." Vice President Wallace, April 9, 1944

One chapter that I found particularly intriguing was "9/11 and the 9/11 Wars: Understanding the Supreme Crimes" by John McMurtry PhD, FRSC
http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_ht...urtry-9-11.pdf
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Who Am I?
09-14-2011, 03:30 AM
:sl:

I think that some people see what is coming, but most people here in the US have become accustomed to our way of life. Some people are too scared to stand up against the government. The real problem though is that we have become too much of a welfare state for there to be any real revolution like what we have seen in Egypt and Libya. Too many people rely on the government for their way of life, and so whatever the government says to do, they do, because they don't want to lose that government check.

It's just a form of economic slavery. That's all it is.
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Abz2000
09-14-2011, 04:25 AM
4. WHEN WE HAVE ACCOMPLISHED OUR COUP D'ETAT WE SHALL SAY THEN TO THE VARIOUS PEOPLES: "EVERYTHING HAS GONE TERRIBLY BADLY, ALL HAVE BEEN WORN OUT WITH SUFFERING. WE ARE DESTROYING THE CAUSES OF YOUR TORMENT - NATIONALITIES, FRONTIERS, DIFFERENCES OF COINAGES. YOU ARE AT LIBERTY, OF COURSE, TO PRONOUNCE SENTENCE UPON US, BUT CAN IT POSSIBLY BE A JUST ONE IF IT IS CONFIRMED BY YOU BEFORE YOU MAKE ANY TRIAL OF WHAT WE ARE OFFERING YOU." ... THEN WILL THE MOB EXALT US AND BEAR US UP IN THEIR HANDS IN A UNANIMOUS TRIUMPH OF HOPES AND EXPECTATIONS. VOTING, WHICH WE HAVE MADE THE INSTRUMENT WHICH WILL SET US ON THE THRONE OF THE WORLD BY TEACHING EVEN THE VERY SMALLEST UNITS OF MEMBERS OF THE HUMAN RACE TO VOTE BY MEANS OF MEETINGS AND AGREEMENTS BY GROUPS, WILL THEN HAVE SERVED ITS PURPOSES AND WILL PLAY ITS PART THEN FOR THE LAST TIME BY A UNANIMITY OF DESIRE TO MAKE CLOSE ACQUAINTANCE WITH US BEFORE CONDEMNING US.

5. TO SECURE THIS WE MUST HAVE EVERYBODY VOTE WITHOUT DISTINCTION OF CLASSES AND QUALIFICATIONS, in order to establish an absolute majority, which cannot be got from the educated propertied classes. In this way, by inculcating in all a sense of self-importance, we shall destroy among the GOYIM the importance of the family and its educational value and remove the possibility of individual minds splitting off, for the mob, handled by us, will not let them come to the front nor even give them a hearing; it is accustomed to listen to us only who pay it for obedience and attention. In this way we shall create a blind, mighty force which will never be in a position to move in any direction without the guidance of our agents set at its head by us as leaders of the mob. The people will submit to this regime because it will know that upon these leaders will depend its earnings, gratifications and the receipt of all kinds of benefits.



Written over a century ago
Reply

Salahudeen
09-14-2011, 06:49 AM
The USA goverment doesn't give a **** about the Iraqi people, the fact that they were being ruled by a tyrant had nothing to do with it and the suggestion that one of the reasons they went in there was to free the people from the reign of saddam is funny, what about all the tyrants across the entire world? what about Zimbabwe? and all the other countries who have tyrant oppressive leaders, the bottom line is, it don't matter how much of a SOB you are, as long as your their SOB you can do what you want, but the minute you change allegiances then your times up. this video is a good example of how they work, it's only 2 mins long watch it.

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Abz2000
09-14-2011, 03:10 PM
great vid, have downloaded it fro my site, but even that fell short - they don't do it for the freedoms of the Amerikan people or the british people - rather they come out with a raft of tyrannical legislation every time they stage a false flag terror attack, this article from today is telling - considering their lies about freedom of speech:

Liverpool to investigate 9/11 tweet from Nathan Eccleston

Wednesday, 14 September 2011 13:03 UK
Liverpool are investigating striker Nathan Eccleston for comments on Twitter that suggested the September 11 attacks were not the work of terrorists.
A tweet that has since been taken down said: "I ain't going to say attack don't let the media make u believe that was terrorist that did it. #OTIS."
OTIS reportedly stands for Only the Illuminati Succeed.
The 20-year-old has made nine first-team appearances for Liverpool.
A club statement said: "The club takes this matter extremely seriously and senior club officials have informed Nathan Eccleston that we are undertaking an investigation into the circumstances surrounding these postings and will decide on an appropriate course of action."
Eccleston, who has over 39,000 followers on the social-networking site, has since tweeted: "If you don't like what I have to say un follow me!! Some things get took way out of context..."
The Manchester-born striker has spent time on loan at Huddersfield Town and Charlton Athletic, and has played for the England Under-17 team.




even not believing the government story is considered shocking. despite all the past lies.
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Who Am I?
09-14-2011, 04:02 PM
:sl:

See? This is what I am talking about when I said that free speech is only for those who agree with the majority.

There is no way that this player should be punished for what he said. Period. So now because he doesn't believe the lie, he's being investigated?

Ridiculous.

Pardon me, I think I hear the FBI knocking on my door...
Reply

جوري
09-14-2011, 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by King of Nines
Pardon me, I think I hear the FBI knocking on my door...
Don't be surprised if they do..
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Abz2000
09-14-2011, 05:12 PM
LOL! don't prang out just yet, that time is coming once they've gotten past a few more obstacles,
check this site out when you get a chance - i'm a regular poster there:

http://www.infowars.com/
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Abz2000
09-14-2011, 05:23 PM
they are slowly moving towards it though, take the time to watch this:



and this is how they try to frighten and threaten people showing their pure criminality and total disregard of decency,
for those who support those fascist terror laws, here's something to reflect on:

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جوري
09-14-2011, 05:42 PM
^^ this is really very disturbing :hmm:
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Who Am I?
09-14-2011, 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

Don't be surprised if they do..
:sl:

I'm sure they will be. I'm already preparing my last speech before they execute me as a "traitor and spy".

Because we all know that I won't get a fair trial. Habeus Corpus is a joke...
Reply

Abz2000
09-14-2011, 08:05 PM
the sad part is what effect it's having on the ignorants,
and the good part is that those like brother ko9 who bother to seek for themselves become totally wide awake:

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Who Am I?
09-14-2011, 10:06 PM
:sl:

I am awake to the lies, but I am alone in this fight. I am trying to convince others of the truth, but they refuse to see it. Just today I got an email from a Christian friend of mine denouncing Islam. He was also really into the 9/11 memorial stuff and got mad when I told him that I wasn't remembering the lies.
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Abz2000
09-14-2011, 11:06 PM
you're not alone - i sounded like a nut to my nephews and nieces (my age) a few years back, they'd refer to me as a "conspiracy theorist", now they acknowledge it hands down.
a couple of months back i was sitting with them and suddenly asked: was 9/11 an inside job? the "educated lawyer" niece said not sure (she's never bothered to research and doesn't even know what wtc7 is), the nephew who's an estate agent immediately said: of course - everyone knows, even the teachers at uni know.

all the other nephews and nieces and my brothers and sisters acknowledge it too now (i did use to make them wait on the way out while i burned dvds and printed booklets etc at the beginning- what a pest!),
i guess feeling like an idiot with a lone voice at the beginning eventually paid off.
that doesn't just work towards one issue - it gives people discernment and they don't fall for lying propaganda so easily after that, and they are much more cautious of psychological manipulation on tv and newspapers - since they now know that the news media has dropped it's claimed goal of informing people and holding the government accountable, and taken to becoming mass murdering liars with blood on their hands who cover up facts.
it also works towards dispelling the propaganda aimed at Islam among atheists and people of other religions.

so don't feel alone in a surrounding of less informed people - you're one of a group of 1.5 billion - almost a quarter of planet earth's population - and growing - but more importantly - you've got the One who knows everything Who's read the back of the book with you.

universal truth is not measured in mass appeal.
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MustafaMc
09-17-2011, 12:37 PM
I have been thinking about a recent heated exchange between myself and a couple of sisters here over the war and occupation in Iraq. First, I was surprised that an apparent US soldier could also be a Muslim and a member of this forum. It seemed like an oxymoron to say "Muslim US soldier in Iraq", but now I realize that is not necessarily the case. I am sure you can tell by my posts here that the 9/11 wars and changes in the USA since 2001 are a sensitive subject for me and that I am quite opinionated in my views - views that are contrary to what 'most Americans' seem to hold as true.

I regret that I have offended one sister to the point where she left has the forum. I realize that she must be in a difficult situation and that my words were inconsiderate of and insensitive to her predicament. She did not clarify her position, but in 'reading between the lines' of what she wrote, I can imagine that she believed the official 9/11 and subsequent story and propaganda about Muslim terrorists and that she was doing what she felt she needed to do to make the world a safer and more peaceful place to live. It is too bad that we couldn't discuss this and reconcile our differences. I apologize to her and others for the offenses that I have caused by speaking my mind and venting my anger.
Reply

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