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جوري
07-23-2011, 02:47 AM
Anders Behring Breivik Identified As Suspect In Norway Shooting



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The 32-year-old Norwegian man who allegedly went on a shooting spree on the island of Utoya has been identified as Anders Behring Breivik, according to multiple reports.
The Daily Mail and Sky News were among those to report the suspect's name. According to witnesses, the gunman was dressed as a police officer and gunned down young people as they ran for their lives at a youth camp.
Police said Friday evening that they've linked the youth camp shooting and Oslo bombing. Breivik is believed to have acted alone.
Norwegian TV2 reports that Breivik belongs to "ring-wing circles" in Oslo. Swedish news site Expressen adds that he has been known to write to right-wing forums in Norway, is a self-described nationalist and has also written a number of posts critical of Islam.
A Twitter account for Breivik has surfaced, though it only has one post, this quote from philosopher John Stuart Mill: "One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100 000 who have only interests." The tweet was posted on July 17.
On a Facebook account that Norwegian media outlets have attributed to Breivik, he describes himself as having Christian, conservative views. He says he enjoys hunting, the games World of Warcraft and Modern Warfare 2, and lives in Oslo. He also lists political analysis and stock analysis as interests.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0...l1%7C%7C219823
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جوري
07-23-2011, 02:53 AM
and after a day florid with Islamists/extremists/fundamentalist, 'Al Qaeda' this and that and their solidarity against those Muslim Barbarians, not so much a retraction.. I was wondering when the next thing would happen to deflect from all the crap going on to their preferred scape goat.. and what do you know.. I am not reading about christian nutters.. just reading 'Anders Behring Breivik'
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Woodrow
07-23-2011, 02:01 PM
Just caught this on the news. Let us all see this as a Horrible act and just as that. It makes no difference what religion a terrorist is. all terrorists are the same and have no religion no matter what they call themselves.


Norway ripped by Oslo bomb, youth camp shootings

OSLO, Norway (AP) — Norway's peace was shattered twice Friday when a bomb ripped open buildings in the heart of its government and a man dressed as a police officer gunned down youths at a summer camp. Police linked one Norwegian to both attacks, which killed a total of at least 16 people in this nation's worst violence since World War II.

Police said they did not know the motive or whether the attacks were the work of one person or a terrorist group, but Justice Minister Knut Storberget said the man who opened fire at the youth camp is Norwegian.

Hundreds of youths ran in terror at a camp on Utoya island where the prime minister had been scheduled to speak Saturday. Some even tried swimming to safety as the gunman fired.

A 15-year-old camper named Elise said she heard gunshots, but then saw a police officer and thought she was safe. Then he started shooting people right before her eyes.

"I saw many dead people," said Elise, whose father, Vidar Myhre, didn't want her to disclose her last name. "He first shot people on the island. Afterward he started shooting people in the water."

Elise said she hid behind the same rock that the killer was standing on. "I could hear his breathing from the top of the rock," she said.

She said it was impossible to say how many minutes passed while she was waiting for him to stop.

The shooting occurred after the bombing in Oslo, Norway's capital and the city where the Nobel Peace Prize is awarded. The blast left a square covered in twisted metal, shattered glass and documents expelled from surrounding buildings in a dust-fogged scene that reminded one visitor from New York of Sept. 11.

Ian Dutton, who was in a nearby hotel, said people "just covered in rubble" were walking through "a fog of debris."

"It wasn't any sort of a panic," he said, "It was really just people in disbelief and shock, especially in a such as safe and open country as Norway. You don't even think something like that is possible."

Police said seven people died in the Oslo blast, and another 9 or 10 people were killed at the camp, which was organized by the youth wing of the ruling Labor Party. Rescuers were to search to blast wreckage through the night for more victims, and Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg said police fear there could be more victims at the camp as well.

Elise, the young camper, said she believes she saw more than 10 people killed.
SOURCE


Also check this link http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_18536149?source=rss
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May Ayob
07-23-2011, 02:17 PM
Salaam
I watched this on News yesterday.
It's terrible especially when some people use Religion to express their hatred towards the society.

May God have Mercy on us all

Salaam
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جوري
07-23-2011, 03:17 PM
pls. send to world's affairs is possible..
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جوري
07-23-2011, 03:42 PM
It is funny that no headline read Christian, fundie, extremist when that was exactly what the Muslim hating terrorist was.. but every media outlet was quick to pepper every news brief with anti-Muslim rhetoric!
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Woodrow
07-23-2011, 04:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
It is funny that no headline read Christian, fundie, extremist when that was exactly what the Muslim hating terrorist was.. but every media outlet was quick to pepper every news brief with anti-Muslim rhetoric!
:sl:

I agree. But, I do see a small step was made in the right direction. At least some papers did mention he was Christian. Normally if the perpetrator is not Muslim, the faith is not mentioned. Perhaps some people are finally waking up that either the news must mention the religion of every criminal or never mention it. Maybe some will see that terrorists use the name of any religion.
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جوري
07-23-2011, 05:02 PM
I think a bunch of Masonists are sitting on top dictating pushing the next button, doing the devils work and preparing the world for satanist God's descent!
I don't believe most of the stuff out there, but it is certainly amusing to watch, a handful of people on top while the entire world at large is suffering..

:w:
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Asiyah3
07-23-2011, 05:30 PM
What a sad horrible incident. I hope the guy gets a life sentence at least. My deepest condolences to all the victims and their families.

Terrorists are terrorists irrespective of their religion.
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Perseveranze
07-23-2011, 06:53 PM
The Islamaphobes got a beating.

Look at this joke of a newspaper -



Someone's going to get fired or atleast an apology.
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جوري
07-23-2011, 07:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Perseveranze
The Islamaphobes got a beating.

Look at this joke of a newspaper -



Someone's going to get fired or atleast an apology.
That is pretty much how it was here too, with their rabid media whor es out, and when his identity was revealed, they were still at it with their fulsome references.. He's a christian terrorist by the way which begs the question or two, why the title of this thread was changed and why a hungry media refused to call it what it is?
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Muezzin
07-23-2011, 07:24 PM
This is a terrible tragedy. I can't begin to understand what those involved went through, or what their friends and relatives are going though. They have my deepest sympathies.

format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

That is pretty much how it was here too, with their rabid media whor es out, and when his identity was revealed, they were still at it with their fulsome references.. He's a christian terrorist by the way which begs the question or two, why the title of this thread was changed and why a hungry media refused to call it what it is?
I merged your thread with this one, which is called 'Oslo Terrorist Attack'. When merging one thread with a second, the title of the second automatically becomes the title of the new merged thread.

The points about the media are spot-on.
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GuestFellow
07-23-2011, 08:48 PM
Salaam,

Yesterday, I read many comments on various websites claiming that Muslims were behind the attack. It shows people are quick to blame Muslims even though there is no evidence to support their allegations.

The man disguised as a police officer is still a suspect. He has not been convicted of a criminal offence. So he is still innocent. I will not comment further until there is more information.
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Trumble
07-23-2011, 10:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Yesterday, I read many comments on various websites claiming that Muslims were behind the attack. It shows people are quick to blame Muslims even though there is no evidence to support their allegations.
It's not a unique phenomenon, certainly in regard of the UK. When the principal terrorist threat was from Irish Republicans, they were initially blamed even for the (rare) incidents when somebody else was responsible. Frankly, nobody cared much. You are quite right is saying that that is wrong, but in the real world I don't see any way of avoiding it. It's no different from the 'other side'. No evidence was seemingly needed to trumpet allegations that Israel was responsible for the 'assassination' of the Iranian 'nuclear scientist' - then, oops, it turns out he wasn't a nuclear scientist at all.

What I just don't 'get' is how this lunatic was able to shoot so many. That awful number seems like something out of a Rambo movie, not real-life. Unbelievably sad.
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Maryan0
07-23-2011, 11:14 PM
Why would he target kids? I read that He shot the kids at the youth camp one at a time point blank. :cry:
Salam
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Salahudeen
07-24-2011, 05:19 AM
The police took over an hour to turn up, I think because of the explosion that took place their attention was focused else where.

I heard on the news that he did this attack because he was disturbed by the growing number of Muslims in Europe and wanted to preserve "christingdom europe"
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Grace Seeker
07-24-2011, 05:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Just caught this on the news. Let us all see this as a Horrible act and just as that. It makes no difference what religion a terrorist is. all terrorists are the same and have no religion no matter what they call themselves.

</p>
I agree that a terrorist is a terrorist no matter what religion. But we kid ourselves if we think that misguided people won't pervert religion for their own reasons. If what has been reported thus far proves to be true, it appears that this many, like Timothy McVeigh before him (another supposed Christian fundamentalist), has done just that.

I like your statement that "all terrorists are the same and have no religion no matter what they call themselves." And yet, I sadly note how many who commit these dispicable acts see themselves as acting in the name of some sort of religion. And even more striking, how often they seem to be found among the more conservative forms of the various religions with which they identify. This leads me to ask if perhaps your statement does not go far enough? Obviously acts of terror done in the name of religion have been around for centuries -- the Inquisition comes to mind -- and no religion has proved itself immune from these perversions. (And of course, any faith that is worthy of respect would rightly decry these acts as not being representative of the faith.) But I'm trying to recall if ever it was the case that such henious acts were perpertrated by those that would be considered "liberal" with respect to their religious views?
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Riana17
07-24-2011, 09:49 AM
Salam Alaikkum

We all know that no religion teaches to hurt even an animal, so even if he is Christian we cannot spread this news or complain why Christianity is not attached.

It is pure personal action and religion is not to be blamed. I used to get upset also when they blame Muslims about bombing and all and get mad when a Christian do horrible things and religion is not takin into account, I dont like to be one of them who blames the religion, that is harram and I should avoid.

Since today morning I have different view, in future when someone asks me about JIHAD, I would remember inshallah to say that JIHAD is also teaching of JESUS:

Luke 19:27 Jesus said "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them–bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”
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ابن آل مرة
07-24-2011, 02:32 PM
This sick, christian, Masonic, far right extremist terrorist deserves none less than a horrible death penalty,which obviously won't happen since Norway abolished death penalty back in 1905. But how will most ignorant brainwashed fools will relate to this man? "A lone, madman with mental problems" This terrorist attack was no doubt politically motivated. The attack was on a rally which was against Islamophobia, and this terrorist had enough of his people betraying on his country. How dare they support Combating-Islamophobia?!

The media was already at it in few minutes, and the so called "experts on terrorism" were running around barking like wild dogs saying its Muslims! da*mn them! Another terrorist attack by those terrorists! When they found out it was done by their own kind, they were disappointed of course. How can it be from their own kind? No jackpot for us today, go home everyone, 92 killed by a non-Muslim, so no party tonight.

So the people of Norway tasted a little bit of what goes on in Afghanistan, Filisteen, Iraq on daily basis. Not that I am saying they deserved it.
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Woodrow
07-24-2011, 03:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
</p>
I agree that a terrorist is a terrorist no matter what religion. But we kid ourselves if we think that misguided people won't pervert religion for their own reasons. If what has been reported thus far proves to be true, it appears that this many, like Timothy McVeigh before him (another supposed Christian fundamentalist), has done just that.

I like your statement that "all terrorists are the same and have no religion no matter what they call themselves." And yet, I sadly note how many who commit these dispicable acts see themselves as acting in the name of some sort of religion. And even more striking, how often they seem to be found among the more conservative forms of the various religions with which they identify. This leads me to ask if perhaps your statement does not go far enough? Obviously acts of terror done in the name of religion have been around for centuries -- the Inquisition comes to mind -- and no religion has proved itself immune from these perversions. (And of course, any faith that is worthy of respect would rightly decry these acts as not being representative of the faith.) But I'm trying to recall if ever it was the case that such henious acts were perpertrated by those that would be considered "liberal" with respect to their religious views?
Thanks Gene,

Good words to think about. You are correct. It does seem that most who commit these types of acts see themselves as being religious and acting in a very pious manner. Yet, most of them come from very peaceful belief systems.

Perhaps if the media would simply address them as terrorists and eliminate any religious label to any terrorist, it would reduce the thought that it is a religious act from potential imitators.

I think this emphasis the media places on a terrorist's religion gives the wrong type of attention to the act and and encourages possible repeaters to try to be even more extreme. Sort of like giving an excuse for a person to act upon violent thoughts.

I just read an update about this latest madman and his current justification was to keep Islam out of Norway because that is the type of things we would do, if we are in Norway. (Not the exact wording) but what I see as the gist of this:

A manifesto published online — which police are poring over and said was posted the day of the attack — ranted against Muslim immigration to Europe and vowed revenge on "indigenous Europeans" who he accused of betraying their heritage. It added that they would be punished for their "treasonous acts."

SOURCE
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Gator
07-25-2011, 02:14 AM
The front page headline of the NY times called him a christian fundamentalist and right wing extremist. The guy is just insane.
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Woodrow
07-25-2011, 02:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gator
The front page headline of the NY times called him a christian fundamentalist and right wing extremist. The guy is just insane.

Now if only the media would understand that. Because a man acts in a horrific manner does not mean he is representing the religion he claims to follow. People will soon agree this man did not represent Christianity, but if he had been Muslim, it would be nearly impossible to get people to understand he does not represent Islam.

The media feeds prejudice by revealing the religion or race of a person involved in criminal activity. The rule should be to always reveal it or never reveal it. The better choice should be to never reveal it.
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Trumble
07-25-2011, 06:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmed M.
But how will most ignorant brainwashed fools will relate to this man? "A lone, madman with mental problems" This terrorist attack was no doubt politically motivated.
What 'ignorant brainwashed fools' are you talking about? Nobody is disputing that the motive was (probably) political, although I for one find it impossible to believe the shooting could have been carried out by someone without 'mental problems' of some sort.

The attack was on a rally which was against Islamophobia, and this terrorist had enough of his people betraying on his country. How dare they support Combating-Islamophobia?!
What rally?! The shooting was on some sort of Island summer camp for the youth wing of the ruling Labour party. The bombing was aimed at the Prime Minister. In any event how 'dare' who support combating Islamophobia? The Norwegian people? Would you prefer they didn't?

When they found out it was done by their own kind, they were disappointed of course. How can it be from their own kind? No jackpot for us today, go home everyone, 92 killed by a non-Muslim, so no party tonight.
I can't see any evidence for any; it's just a reflection of your own bias. One thing that is truly depressing on these boards is the number of people these days complaining about hate and bias in posts that exhibit as much or more of them as the people - or strawmen - they are complaining about.
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User29123
07-25-2011, 10:00 AM
Don't want to offend anyone here, but this guy was Christian as far as I heard, why don't the media put Christian Terrorist or Extremist, they would do it for a Muslim in 5 minutes, but no this guy is just lone wolf or a madman, see they always pick Islam.....
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yas2010
07-25-2011, 10:27 AM
:cry: So very sad for the loss of life.

Hate and Terrorism have no religion and true justice will be served in the court of Allah(swt)

May Allah (swt) grant mercy upon us all.
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Reflections
07-25-2011, 12:52 PM
Poor kids subhanAllah...He even made sure they were dead by shooting them twice again...The guy has definitely lost the plot...Can't imagine what the families are going through...muslim or not, it still hurts that so many young kids were killed without even being involved with anything...Even if the lunatic isn't given the punishment he deserves right now..Allah is Just and will deal with it in the best of ways.
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جوري
07-25-2011, 03:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PoweredByGoogle
Don't want to offend anyone here, but this guy was Christian as far as I heard, why don't the media put Christian Terrorist or Extremist, they would do it for a Muslim in 5 minutes, but no this guy is just lone wolf or a madman, see they always pick Islam.....
that's because they're only terrorists when Muslim, others are just loons. Welcome to Murdoch's media fostered financially by ilwaleed ibn talal... still think we shouldn't topple those regimes and the effete kaffirs under pretense of Islam in power?

:w:
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GuestFellow
07-25-2011, 04:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PoweredByGoogle
Don't want to offend anyone here, but this guy was Christian as far as I heard, why don't the media put Christian Terrorist or Extremist, they would do it for a Muslim in 5 minutes, but no this guy is just lone wolf or a madman, see they always pick Islam.....
Salaam,

Because only "moslems" commit terrorist attacks.

If this guy was a Muslim, we would be hearing comments like Muslims are not integrating, Muslims are dangerous, Muslims need to be deported, Islam is a dangerous religion and the rest of the rubbish that's on the mainstream media. What do you expect? Western media (not all) are too focused on trivial issues and want to make a profit. The public need to blame someone for all of their problems and Muslims are an easy target.
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Trumble
07-25-2011, 04:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

that's because they're only terrorists when Muslim, others are just loons. :w:
I don't know what you are seeing over there, but that has as about much relevance to UK and European coverage of the incident as Ahmed M.'s gibberish. The BBC in particular is concentrating on extreme right-wing views as terrorist motivations , possible associates and group affilitions, etc. If it's any consolation I think those who make a habit of brainwashing children into strapping themselves into explosives and blowing themselves up in public places are just as ga-ga as Breivik.
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جوري
07-25-2011, 04:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
I don't know what you are seeing over there, but that has as about much relevance to UK and European coverage of the incident as Ahmed M.'s gibberish. The BBC in particular is concentrating on extreme right-wing views as terrorist motivations , possible associates and group affilitions, etc. If it's any consolation I think those who make a habit of brainwashing children into strapping themselves into explosives and blowing themselves up in public places are just as ga-ga as Breivik.
Get a satellite TV and tune into fox, I have seen more images of the WTC towers and references to 'al qaeda' and 'islamists/extremists/fundies' in the past few days than I have of the Oslo folks..

best,
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May Ayob
07-25-2011, 05:58 PM
Salaam and Peace be to all,

Is it really important, to name which or what group does any kind of henious act?
This is the problem we mainly focus on *WHO* did what, In order to make Stereotypes and Generalization on a certain group ( May it be religious or other) because that's normally what we human beings like to do , when we see something wrong we like to blame someone , and I guess this is what the Media Today is doing, It found one marginalized group of the community to keep accusing of anything inconvenient that happens, It's truly dis-appointing , What has happened has happened , we can;t Change the Will of God , we can;t bring these poor and innocent people back to life, and we can't apologize to them for whatever they have had to face.
But what's even more dis-appointing is that all we do, is blame each other and generalize. It would be better if we could have discussed ( without regards to any religion) as to why some people act in such a violent matter , with putting in mind no matter how many Peace-Promoting verses of the Qur'an Bible, or What ever scripture the person may follow commanding them to not harm humanity , they just wont listen. It's a matter of understanding these people's physchology.. and it's quite important to do such a thing , if we wanted for this kind of catasrophe to never happen ever again.
The amount of money being spent to promote religious hatred and stereotypes between human beings would be incomparable to the effort of insuring such acts not to eve happen again

Salaam and Peace be to all.
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User29123
07-25-2011, 10:15 PM
What I hate is the media in this, see if it was Muslim it would say Muslim this and that, but this guy is just "crazy"

The second and most thing I do not like is how, these people have come out and moaned, of course do so, but this happens day and night in our Muslims countries, NATO bombing buildings and killing 100s of people day by day, but hey no one remembers them.....
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جوري
07-25-2011, 10:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PoweredByGoogle
What I hate is the media in this, see if it was Muslim it would say Muslim this and that, but this guy is just "crazy"

The second and most thing I do not like is how, these people have come out and moaned, of course do so, but this happens day and night in our Muslims countries, NATO bombing buildings and killing 100s of people day by day, but hey no one remembers them.....
why should anyone remember them? casualties of war is what they call them..
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GuestFellow
07-25-2011, 10:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PoweredByGoogle
The second and most thing I do not like is how, these people have come out and moaned, of course do so, but this happens day and night in our Muslims countries, NATO bombing buildings and killing 100s of people day by day, but hey no one remembers them.....
Salaam,

They don't care because it does not happen to them. There are some western people that are against Muslims being killed by western troops, it's just that the mainstream media does not give them a platform.
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Pygoscelis
07-26-2011, 12:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
:sl:

I agree. But, I do see a small step was made in the right direction. At least some papers did mention he was Christian. Normally if the perpetrator is not Muslim, the faith is not mentioned. Perhaps some people are finally waking up that either the news must mention the religion of every criminal or never mention it. Maybe some will see that terrorists use the name of any religion.
The religion of the person is only relevant if they do the act in the name of the religion or if they use the religion to justify it. I haven't been following this case (I have been removed from all news media and most of life in general while preparing for a trial). Is that what happened here? If so, then they most certainly should cover that angle.

Imagine trying to cover something like David Koresh without mentioning his religious beliefs. You'd miss half the story.
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Pygoscelis
07-26-2011, 12:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
There are some western people that are against Muslims being killed by western troops, it's just that the mainstream media does not give them a platform.
I would even say MOST western people are against Muslims (or any other civillians) being killed by western troops.
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May Ayob
07-26-2011, 08:02 AM
[quote=Pygoscelis;1455615 Imagine trying to cover something like David Koresh without mentioning his religious beliefs. You'd miss half the story.[/quote]

No you wouldn't miss half the story,except if you want to entertain yourself by accusing the everyone that belongs to same group may it be religious or other, So if this same man was black I'm sure many people would have been like : I knew these Black people were evil all they do is fight and commit crimes, which is completely wrong!
Just because X does something wrong doesn't mean that everyone X knows or every member or of that particular group X belongs is as being said.
Religion and Ethnicity..etc Should not be a case in judging a person's actions. Anyone who does any act should be held responsible for it and face the consequences no matter what.
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smile
07-26-2011, 08:22 AM
http://www.kevinislaughter.com/wp-co...dependence.pdf

^^^^manifesto
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Pygoscelis
07-26-2011, 12:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by May Ayob
No you wouldn't miss half the story,except if you want to entertain yourself by accusing the everyone that belongs to same group may it be religious or other, So if this same man was black I'm sure many people would have been like : I knew these Black people were evil all they do is fight and commit crimes, which is completely wrong!
As I said, it would be relevant if they did it in the name of religion or justified it through religion, and it would also be relevant if they did it in the name of blackness or justified it through blackness. We don't cover the KKK without making reference to race. You couldnt cover David Koresh without making reference to religion.
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Pygoscelis
07-26-2011, 12:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by smile
This case sounds more cultural than religious.

This xenophobic movement has been growing in Europe for a while now (everything from rational concern over european culture and declining birth rates to Geert Wilders and now to this). I'm not suprised to see a radical and violent manifestation of it emerge.
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Perseveranze
07-26-2011, 01:27 PM
I lol'd, their trying to brush it off like he' "insane" - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14294251

The 9/11 terrorists were all SANE, but now a Christian does it, "must be insane...".
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ابن آل مرة
07-26-2011, 01:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Stumble
........

Did you say something?
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May Ayob
07-26-2011, 01:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
As I said, it would be relevant if they did it in the name of religion or justified it through religion, and it would also be relevant if they did it in the name of blackness or justified it through blackness.
If by means? So it does have an importance when someone claims that the Bible or the Qur'an ..etc promotes let's say violence, What importanve does it really make? Except a better arguement for Atheism maybe??

To me it would not be relevant if they did it in the name of religion, ethnicity or not, what matters is that the act being done is wrong, the rest is a cause of rumors, hatred, gossip and phobia

No offense intended

Peace be to you
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MartyrX
07-27-2011, 02:08 PM
This man is insane and everyone is calling him a maniac and this a disaster. This was a terrorist attack, plain and simple. But since he's not a Muslim, it won't be labeled as such.
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جوري
07-27-2011, 02:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by JeffX
This man is insane and everyone is calling him a maniac and this a disaster. This was a terrorist attack, plain and simple. But since he's not a Muslim, it won't be labeled as such.
yeah 'bill O'Reilly' is lashing out at the media for calling him 'christian' when that's exactly what he's and what he embodies.. I am surprised bill O'Reilly doesn't take to the streets and do the same, he's one of the most intolerant creeps there are!
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sister herb
07-27-2011, 02:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by JeffX
This man is insane and everyone is calling him a maniac and this a disaster. This was a terrorist attack, plain and simple. But since he's not a Muslim, it won't be labeled as such.
Salam alaykum;

in many newspapers in Nordic countries he is labeled as terrorist as well they called his act as "terrorist act".
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Ramadhan
07-27-2011, 02:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I would even say MOST western people are against Muslims (or any other civillians) being killed by western troops.
sorry, but the reality does not support your belief.
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GuestFellow
07-27-2011, 03:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I would even say MOST western people are against Muslims (or any other civillians) being killed by western troops.
How do you know? You have not met every single westerner. Besides, some westerners support the troops.
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Pygoscelis
07-27-2011, 04:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

yeah 'bill O'Reilly' is lashing out at the media for calling him 'christian' when that's exactly what he's and what he embodies.. I am surprised bill O'Reilly doesn't take to the streets and do the same, he's one of the most intolerant creeps there are!
Somebody check the temperature in the underworld, because I completely agree with Lily on this.
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Pygoscelis
07-27-2011, 04:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
How do you know?
It is my perception. You might ask Ramadhan the same question. Also note that being a nonmuslim I can speak to weterners not in the presence of a muslim. It does make a difference in some people in what they'll say.

Besides, some westerners support the troops.
That isn't the same thing. I would say that most westerners who support the troops support them in their mission to kill terrorists and stabalize the region (as misguided and naive as that may be) and return safely. I have not encountered westerners who support killing muslim civilians, or muslims in general, except for on extreme right conservative fundamentalist christian boards.
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جوري
07-27-2011, 09:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Somebody check the temperature in the underworld, because I completely agree with Lily on this.
It isn't the first time you agree with me on something, so it is no longer news. You don't like polarity I can tell, what you fail to understand is that Islam is the balanced middle ground!

best,
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سيف الله
07-27-2011, 09:59 PM
Salaam

Echo the comments made earlier, a horrible atrocity imsad

format_quote Originally Posted by Perseveranze
The Islamaphobes got a beating.

Look at this joke of a newspaper -



Someone's going to get fired or atleast an apology.
Yes, mainstream media (particularly the right wing) and terrorism ‘experts’ were salivating at the prospect, you could of only imagined the feeding frenzy that would of occurred had it been committed by some off shoot of Al Qaida. When they discovered it wasn’t who they expected, they seemed almost, disappointed.

Heres some letters

Letters: The Norwegian massacre

Now that the architect of the Norwegian massacre turns out to be a blue-eyed, blond, white, Christian, right-wing fundamentalist, where have all the so-called experts on "Islamic terrorism" suddenly gone?

Even in The Independent (23 July) we read that "Jihadists networks have long singled out Norway", and quotes from several "expert" were strung together to make the case for an al-Qaida-inspired attack.

I look forward to now seeing an equally vigorous explanation of how Norway was "always a key target" for right-wing neo-Nazi groups, supported by a plethora of experts on "Christian terrorism" to explain the theological basis for these attacks.

Dr Shazad Amin
Sale, Manchester


The appalling incident in Norway displayed something equally frightening, the Islamophobia of the British media. On Friday night's BBC News, their lead man immediately prattled on at length about Islamic extremists and even brought in a university al-Qa'ida expert. I look forward to hearing the BBC apologise for their transparent prejudice.

Sadly, even The Independent wheeled out a story on Saturday to present a case for Norway as a terrorist target. Good case, but in the context of Norway, drivel.

Derek Wharton
West Kirby, Wirrral


Will the praise of the English Defence League and other far-right groups by the mass-murdering Norwegian Christian fundamentalist terrorist Anders Behring Breivik make these groups think twice about their anti-Muslim stance? Probably not.

But to the rest of us it should confirm what we already know: that it is extremism, whether religious or political, that poses the greatest threat to our safety and security, not any particular religion or political grouping.

Organisations such as EDL and the BNP find it convenient to demonise the Muslim faith as a whole, ignoring the presence of just as dangerous individuals and groups within the Christian faith, and within the ranks of their own supporters, as within the Muslim religion.

Francis Kirkham
Crediton, Devon


Interesting, isn't it? Two Prime Ministers, two reactions to the shootings in Norway. The Prime Minister of Norway: "We must counter such attacks with more democracy." David Cameron: "We must learn lessons from [what happened in Norway] and take measures to become more secure." As if.

One reaction is based on belief in what is right, the other is based on fear. I vote for more democracy.

Jenny Backwell
Hove, East Sussex
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...e-2319834.html

On the subject of the Norwegian Prime Minster, have to say I’ve been impressed by his (and his nations) reaction.

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Khalil_Allah
07-27-2011, 10:05 PM
Well, now they are talking critically about the right-wing anti-Islam people that influenced this guy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/28/wo...ewanted=1&_r=1

For years I have been anxious and nervous of what happens once these anti-Islam people start to take power on their anti-Islam rhetoric. With all the Geert Wilders and Robert Spencers and Pamela Gellars, it was inevitable that something like this should happen in the West, but I expected it to be against Muslims. And I feared that it would reach the level of systematic government-sponsored violence, although most of that already goes on overseas in Muslim countries.

But now someone freaked and went against the "enablers" of "muslim cultural-marxism." I pray for the victims and all those affected, but I also pray that this starts a counter-movement against the anti-Islam people such that this sort of violence doesn't turn against the Muslims. This guy cited so many of these right-wing anti-Islam types that they look guilty by association, and now they're credibility is trashed as they scramble to defend themselves and their ideologies for something they didn't do. The irony is that for the longest time, we have been scrambling to defend ourselves and our religion against their claims, and now the tables are turned.
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User29123
07-27-2011, 10:52 PM
They will pin this on us Muslims like they usually do, first they said this guy was influenced by Modern Warfare 2 (lol) and now it the Muslims...

EDIT

something interesting I found here:

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/worl...cks-59635.html


I hope they get sued!!
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Trumble
07-28-2011, 05:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Perseveranze
I lol'd, their trying to brush it off like he' "insane" - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14294251

The 9/11 terrorists were all SANE, but now a Christian does it, "must be insane...".
Erm... you do realize that the 'they' in this instance was his defense lawyer?!!
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Who Am I?
07-28-2011, 03:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
The media feeds prejudice by revealing the religion or race of a person involved in criminal activity. The rule should be to always reveal it or never reveal it. The better choice should be to never reveal it.
:sl:

I have said this for years, that the media loves to perpetrate racial tension in the USA. After all, a people divided are easier for the government to control. If we're too busy hating each other, we won't realize that our freedoms are slowly being taken away.

I remember back in 1995, Timothy McVeigh was supposedly "influenced by Muslim extremists" before he bombed that building in Oklahoma City. So even when it's a non-Muslim, non-Arab guy, the media still tries to link it back to Islam and Muslims somehow.
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جوري
07-28-2011, 04:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines
the media still tries to link it back to Islam and Muslims somehow.

yup, kids who go postal are influenced by Muslims, registered sex offenders are influenced by Muslims (which is interesting because I just read a case yesterday where a guy had to register for engaging in relations with his then girlfriend now wife at the age of 15 and he 19 by Texas law that's considered statutory rape, so he registered as a sex offender he later married her and has four kids with her with that cloud hanging over his head-- but again he's a pedophile and rapist according to their law) if you beat your wife or partner as is the case with one out of four American women you're influenced by Muslims, if you cheat on your wife or take another partner (illegally) as do 50% of men in the west then you're influenced by Muslims and Islam..
got the pic? they're a state of perfection and all their troubles have reigned from Islam and Muslims..

:w:
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Who Am I?
07-28-2011, 06:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ


yup, kids who go postal are influenced by Muslims, registered sex offenders are influenced by Muslims (which is interesting because I just read a case yesterday where a guy had to register for engaging in relations with his then girlfriend now wife at the age of 15 and he 19 by Texas law that's considered statutory rape, so he registered as a sex offender he later married her and has four kids with her with that cloud hanging over his head-- but again he's a pedophile and rapist according to their law) if you beat your wife or partner as is the case with one out of four American women you're influenced by Muslims, if you cheat on your wife or take another partner (illegally) as do 50% of men in the west then you're influenced by Muslims and Islam..
got the pic? they're a state of perfection and all their troubles have reigned from Islam and Muslims..

:w:
:sl:

I never really noticed it before I started really studying Islam, but I have been noticing more that the Muslim community gets blamed unfairly for a lot of things that happen in the West, things that I think can really be pinned on Western culture and our secular society.
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سيف الله
07-28-2011, 07:50 PM
Salaam

Heres a good debate on the subject, however be warned it does get quite heated.

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GuestFellow
07-28-2011, 08:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
It is my perception. You might ask Ramadhan the same question. Also note that being a nonmuslim I can speak to weterners not in the presence of a muslim. It does make a difference in some people in what they'll say.
Your perception does not equate to reality. I'm sure some westerners are against the killings of Muslim civilians. There are some that support the killings of Muslim civilians. Do you have any evidence to suggest that most westerners are against such killings? Westerner is a very broad term, by we are referring to EU countries and America.

That isn't the same thing. I would say that most westerners who support the troops support them in their mission to kill terrorists and stabalize the region (as misguided and naive as that may be) and return safely. I have not encountered westerners who support killing muslim civilians, or muslims in general, except for on extreme right conservative fundamentalist christian boards.
If they support the troops, then surely they support the troops actions? The troops have killed civilians. Sometimes, these are termed as collateral damage. So I suppose westerners that support the troops, must support these killings.

format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
Erm... you do realize that the 'they' in this instance was his defense lawyer?!!
So? What evidence is there to support that he is mentally disturbed?

format_quote Originally Posted by Junon
Salaam

Heres a good debate on the subject, however be warned it does get quite heated.

Salaam,

I like crosstalk, except when everyone starts interrupting each other.
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Who Am I?
07-28-2011, 09:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
If they support the troops, then surely they support the troops actions? The troops have killed civilians. Sometimes, these are termed as collateral damage. So I suppose westerners that support the troops, must support these killings.
:sl:

See, I'm going to have to disagree with you there, despite the tasty chicken signature. I support the troops (my dad is a Vietnam veteran, so it's a little personal for me), but I don't condone their actions. Most of them are doing what they do just to survive, and you can't really fault them for that ( I suppose you can, but given the circumstances some of it is understandable. I didn't say it was right, just that I understand why it is done).

The war itself is the real enemy here; not Islam and not the secular West. I just want the troops to get the hell out of there and come back home. Then everyone wins. No innocent Muslims have to die and no more troops do either. That's how I support the troops, by praying that they will soon be gone from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Plus you can't tell me that the general US citizen really knows the truth about what happens in the so-called "War on Terror". I think you're giving the US public a little too much credit (and I include myself in that category).
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GuestFellow
07-28-2011, 11:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines
:sl:

See, I'm going to have to disagree with you there, despite the tasty chicken signature.
:wa:

:'(

I support the troops (my dad is a Vietnam veteran, so it's a little personal for me), but I don't condone their actions. Most of them are doing what they do just to survive, and you can't really fault them for that ( I suppose you can, but given the circumstances some of it is understandable. I didn't say it was right, just that I understand why it is done).
Do you mean supporting the troops as in for them to survive? They only way they can survive is fight, otherwise the only options they have left is to leave the army.

I hope I haven't upset you.

The war itself is the real enemy here; not Islam and not the secular West. I just want the troops to get the hell out of there and come back home. Then everyone wins. No innocent Muslims have to die and no more troops do either. That's how I support the troops, by praying that they will soon be gone from Iraq and Afghanistan.
I don't think there is any support involved for wanting the troops to come back home. :/

I agree with you that there is no war between ideologies. It's geo-politics...

Plus you can't tell me that the general US citizen really knows the truth about what happens in the so-called "War on Terror". I think you're giving the US public a little too much credit (and I include myself in that category).
Lol I don't think anyone truly knows what is going on (except those in power). To be honest, I'm confused.
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Karl
07-29-2011, 12:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Maryan0
Why would he target kids? I read that He shot the kids at the youth camp one at a time point blank. :cry:
Salam
No goats there. Only young adults.
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Karl
07-29-2011, 12:39 AM
Hmmm.... Maybe this guy Brevic is a Muslim, he says he's a Christian and goes and kills a mob of Marxist Labour party prospects but no Muslims or Majids got blown up. Could he be Al Qaida Norse division? Pretending to be a crazy Christian is perfect cover as he will probably get put in an insane asylum for a few years and be released as sane according to the shrinks.
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Who Am I?
07-29-2011, 01:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
:wa:

:'(



Do you mean supporting the troops as in for them to survive? They only way they can survive is fight, otherwise the only options they have left is to leave the army.

I hope I haven't upset you.



I don't think there is any support involved for wanting the troops to come back home. :/

I agree with you that there is no war between ideologies. It's geo-politics...



Lol I don't think anyone truly knows what is going on (except those in power). To be honest, I'm confused.
:sl:

No, brother, you haven't upset me. I can see your point. I may not fully agree, but I see your point.
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sister herb
07-29-2011, 12:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Karl
Hmmm.... Maybe this guy Brevic is a Muslim, he says he's a Christian and goes and kills a mob of Marxist Labour party prospects but no Muslims or Majids got blown up. Could he be Al Qaida Norse division? Pretending to be a crazy Christian is perfect cover as he will probably get put in an insane asylum for a few years and be released as sane according to the shrinks.
Norway Labour party is not marxist. Communist party of Norway might be but it wasn´t they camp at all. Some of victims were muslims too in this camp (from Somalia and Iraqi origin). When someone is in middle of massacre and at age 16, I would call him/her as child, not young adult.

Youngest victim was 9.

May Allah be mercy to all victims and give hardest punishment to murderer.
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سيف الله
07-29-2011, 05:00 PM
Salaam

Interesting artcile

In his rage against Muslims, Norway's killer was no loner

There is a continuum between the toxic bigotry of the mainstream media, EDL slogans and Breivik's outpourings


It's comforting, perhaps, to dismiss Anders Behring Breivik as nothing more than a psychotic loner. That was the view of the Conservative London mayor, Boris Johnson, among others. The Norwegian mass killer's own lawyer has branded him "insane". It has the advantage of meaning no wider conclusions need to be drawn about the social context of the atrocity.

Had he been a Muslim, as much of the western media concluded he was immediately after the terrorist bloodbath, we can be sure there would have been no such judgments – even though some jihadist attacks have undoubtedly been carried out by individuals operating alone.

In fact, however deranged the bombing and shooting might seem, studies of those identified as terrorists have shown they rarely have mental illness or psychiatric abnormalities. Maybe Breivik will turn out to be an exception. But whether his claim that there are other members of a fascistic Christian terror network still at large turns out to be genuine or not, he has clearly fostered enthusiastic links with violent far-right groups abroad, and in Britain in particular.

Those include multiple contacts with the Islamophobic English Defence League, which has repeatedly staged violent protests against Muslim communities. "You're a blessing to all in Europe," Breivik apparently told EDL supporters in an online message, hailing "our common struggle against the Islamofascists". Whatever Breivik has done, he hasn't done in isolation.

Of course the Norwegian killer's ideology, spelled out in mind-numbing detail in his 1,500-page online manifesto, is both repulsive and absurd. Its main focus is hatred of Islam and Muslims — who he wants deported from Europe — rooted in a self-proclaimed Christian conservatism. He declares himself hostile to "cultural Marxism", while being both pro-Israel and antisemitic, and a champion of anti-Muslim rage from India to the Arctic circle.

The killer has evidently absorbed the far right's shift from the language of race to the language of culture. But what is most striking is how closely he mirrors the ideas and fixations of transatlantic conservatives that for a decade have been the meat and drink of champions of the war on terror and the claim that Islam and Islamism pose a mortal threat to western civilisation.

It's all there: the supposed Islamisation of Europe, the classic conspiracism of the "Eurabia" takeover fantasy, the racist hysteria about the Muslim birthrate, the inevitable clash of civilisations, the hatred of "multiculturalism" and the supposed appeasement of Islam by the European elite, which is meant to have fostered a climate where it's impossible to speak about immigration.

All these themes are of course staples of conservative newspapers, commentators and websites. So naturally, exponents of one or more of these tropes are quoted liberally by Breivik, from Bernard Lewis and Melanie Phillips to Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Mark Steyn.

Phillips, a Daily Mail writer, has complained of a "smear". But an article of hers Breivik cites at length described the former Labour government as guilty of "unalloyed treachery" for using mass immigration to "destroy what it means to be culturally British and to put another 'multicultural' identity in its place" – Breivik's feeling precisely.

None of these writers is of course in any way sympathetic to the carnage carried out in Norway last week. But the continuum between the poisonous nonsense commonplace in the mainstream media in recent years, the street slogans of groups like the EDL and Breivik's outpourings is unmistakable.

The same phenomenon can be seen across European politics, where the rise of rightwing Islamophobic parties from France and the Netherlands to Norway and Switzerland has encouraged the centre-right establishment to play the Islam card, wrap itself in "Christian" values and declare the chimera of multiculturalism an abject failure.

It's hardly surprising that some on the parliamentary right have recognised Breivik's ideas as their own: the Italian Northern League MEP Mario Borghezio described them as "100% good". But the same neoconservative zealots who have always insisted that non-violent (Muslim) "extremists" must be cast out because they legitimised and provided a "conveyor belt to terrorism" have now been hoist by their own petard.

That is exactly the role many of their own ideologists have been shown to have played in the case of the butcher of Utoya. When David Cameron denounced multiculturalism in February, he also announced – to the delight of the EDL – that the British government would now be taking on the "non-violent extremists" because they influenced those who embraced violence.

Don't expect the Islamophobic conspiracists to get the same treatment. Breivik is an isolated case, it will be said. In reality, as Europol figures demonstrate, the overwhelming majority of terror attacks in Europe in recent years have been carried out by non-Muslims. In Britain, a string of recent convictions of would-be anti-Muslim terrorists has underlined that Breivik is very far from being just a Norwegian phenomenon.

Lower-level violence and intimidation continues unabated: last week on the day of the Norwegian massacre, in an entirely routine incident, a mosque in Luton was vandalised and spray-painted with a swastika and EDL slogan. The rise of Islamophobia in Europe and the US is the manipulated product of a toxic blend of economic insecurity, unprotected mass migration and the consequences of a decade of western-sponsored war in the Muslim world: from Afghanistan to Iraq, Pakistan to Libya.

It has become the new acceptable form of racism – far outstripping in opinion polls the level of hatred for any other religious or racial group, and embraced by those who delude themselves that anti-Muslim bigotry has nothing to do with ethnicity – and even represents some sort of defence of liberal values.

For those who failed to deliver decent jobs, wages and housing, and encouraged employers to profit from low-wage migrant labour, how much easier to scapegoat minority Muslim communities than deal with the banks and corporate free-for-all that triggered the crisis? The attempt to pathologise last Friday's slaughter and separate it from the swamp that spawned it can only ratchet up the danger to all of us.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/
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Perseveranze
07-29-2011, 06:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
Erm... you do realize that the 'they' in this instance was his defense lawyer?!!
Yup, that's what he's trying to argue, in hopes the "world" will accept it. Point still stands, "they" will use any excuse to make it seem like; "Oh, he's a right wing, Christian, he can never do such a horrible act in his own senses!".
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sister herb
07-29-2011, 06:56 PM
Person who makes kind of acts is not Christian, not Muslim, not Jew... he has created his own religion of greater human power.
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May Ayob
07-29-2011, 07:18 PM
Let's be fair! and Honest too
If this guy was a Muslim then the whole planet would have raged against the Muslim community and just because he turns out to be a european right wing christian he gets unrealistic exucuses for his terrible action. I wish we could be brave enough to bring this man to justice for all the horror he gave to his own community.
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sister herb
07-29-2011, 08:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by May Ayob
Let's be fair! and Honest too
If this guy was a Muslim then the whole planet would have raged against the Muslim community and just because he turns out to be a european right wing christian he gets unrealistic exucuses for his terrible action. I wish we could be brave enough to bring this man to justice for all the horror he gave to his own community.
Sure.

Does it helped his victims that we argue here as "if he would be" or "what world media would say"?

No.

May Allah be mercy to those innocents he killed when he thought it was only way to save the world.

Why world media would say so it did? is more important and also how to change kind of saying?
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User29123
07-29-2011, 08:59 PM
He was part of the EDL trust me I know this...
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May Ayob
07-29-2011, 09:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
Does it helped his victims that we argue here as "if he would be" or "what world media would say"? No.
No , I think that both my previous posts were mainly about this too, I was just saying that we should be fair and treat everyone with equality I am not responsible for what has happened so please don't make me feel like I am. What he did was wrong I know this I'm saying that why is it that no one cares just because he turned out to be a christian and no one wants to bring him to justice , Is there something wrong with demanding Justice? But anyway It is not us that brings Justice it's God.

Salaam and Ramadhan Kareem
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Predator
07-31-2011, 06:04 AM
He has even supported the anti-muslim Hindutva saffron Pigs in his manifesto.


"Breivik talks of Hindutva elements as allies and urges them to fight shoulder to shoulder with his knights
"

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-07-27/india/29820514_1_hindutva-manifesto-hindu-nationalists
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Pygoscelis
07-31-2011, 06:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by May Ayob
Let's be fair! and Honest too
If this guy was a Muslim then the whole planet would have raged against the Muslim community and just because he turns out to be a european right wing christian he gets unrealistic exucuses for his terrible action. I wish we could be brave enough to bring this man to justice for all the horror he gave to his own community.
So very true. Did any of you catch Jon Stewart's bit on this? It was perfectly on point. It showed all the Fox News cronies complaining about the rest of the media calling him a "Christian Extremist" and how horrible that is. Stewart then ran a video of the exact same people doing the exact same thing to "Muslim Extremists". It was really well done.

Not sure if this'll play outside of my internet region, but found the clip: http://watch.thecomedynetwork.ca/#clip506161 Fast forward to 1:16
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Karl
08-01-2011, 01:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
Norway Labour party is not marxist. Communist party of Norway might be but it wasn´t they camp at all. Some of victims were muslims too in this camp (from Somalia and Iraqi origin). When someone is in middle of massacre and at age 16, I would call him/her as child, not young adult.

Youngest victim was 9.


May Allah be mercy to all victims and give hardest punishment to murderer.
Speak for own species, not mine. We are fully grown at the age of 12 years and that includes Norwegians. A Warrior race not an effeminate gay one.
Brevik considered the Labour party as Marxist.
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Karl
08-01-2011, 02:01 AM
If that is true he must be mad because right wing Norse Christians hate those black pagans the most. They call them macacas and monkeys and used to massacre them right up to the end of the British Raj. The Nazi Christians also wiped out gypsies (Roma and Sinti) and they were Indian Hindu refugees.
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