format_quote Originally Posted by
Trumble
It doesn't say that. I said that. Spot the absence of quotation marks in my post and their appearance in yours. I am however capable of a little simple mathematics, although it appears you are not. The figure is actually rather generous as it assigns all the n/k's to Government/NATO.
I know you said that, but you gave the source to back up your statement.
And I cannot see anywhere in that source of yours that support your statement ""Taliban heroes have killed something like three times as many civilians as US, allied and Afghan Government forces put together"
So again, can you please show us where in your source that claim Talibans have killed three times as many civilians as US, allied and Afghan Government forces put together?
If you can't, then we can just dismiss it as a statement you made up on your own.
format_quote Originally Posted by
Trumble
Granted, it doesn't say that. Perhaps you could enlighten us as the identity of the people killing civilians who are neither Taliban nor Afghan Government/NATO?
No, I don't know who they are and I never claimed to know, but you did, that's why I asked you, because in the UN study, it makes a distinction between taliban and anti-government forces.
You know, I don't believe in fairy stories, that's why details like this are very important to me.
I am also for the truth, and people who are for the truth just don't brush aside facts and evidence.
format_quote Originally Posted by
Trumble
I did assume they had some method of doing it other than drawing numbers from a Bingo machine, and simply asking peoplke is by far the most obvious. If you have any evidence to the contrary, please produce it.
So "you did assume". You certainly makes a lot of assumptions in this little thread alone ;D
Ah, again, I never made the claim to know how they gathered the data, but they certainly does not state that they asked every relatives of those killed.
I am surprised that details like this escaped you.
Are you not for the truth?
format_quote Originally Posted by
Trumble
I'm sure those mysterious other anti-government forces can make them just as well. Don't tell me - they are all one bif 'false flag' operation in fantasy land?
Did I ever say that?
Really Trumble, your analytical skills have gone downhill so much.
You presented the case where since the killings were done by IEDs then it must have been the talibans, and hence I asked you the questions.
Again, details... details...
format_quote Originally Posted by
Trumble
No. It was about as subtle as a brick.
Are you accusing me of calling you lying? You owe an apology to me.
format_quote Originally Posted by
Trumble
1. Who was going to stop them? Incidently, as I recall most Iraqis were far from upset at the time.
2. US troops are there at the inivitation of the democratically elected Iraqi government. They don't like them there, of course, but their presence has prevented a significantly worse alternative. US troops are committed to leave by the end of the year.
3. Amazingly enough, nobody felt like sticking their head over the parapet to criticize getting rid of a mass murdering psychopath responsible for the deaths of millions of muslims. Not to mention probable economic suicide.
First of all, those three points do not in any way negate my statement that "outright lying was sufficient as an excuse to invade Iraq since 9/11 has already served as foundation for that"
Second,
1. Incidently, there is no evidence that "most Iraqis are not upset that their country is invaded". Unless you have evidence that all of us do not know.
2. Are you serious? Who set up this "democratically elected Iraqi government"?
Also, they don't like them there but they cannot leave because the situation will get worse otherwise? LOL. Are you a 5 yo child or are you that naive? The US certainly left Somalia, didn't they?
I have heard that US troops are committed to leave by end of the year since 2003. And If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell to you in northern Alaska, wanna buy for a very discounted price?
3. "Nobody felt like sticking their head over the parapet to criticize getting rid of a mass murdering psychopath" ?
Not sure if you only started following world news and politics since 2003, but it was the US govt who supported Saddam Hussein in the late 70s and throughout all 80s to exact revenge on Iran and thus destabilizing the region. It was through US govt political support that made Saddam got away with murders of the kurds population and killed many more shiites. Guess again who supplied chemical weapons to Iraq?
Also, did the US ever stick their head over the parapet to criticize or getting rid of a mass murdering psychopath such as Stalin, Khmer Rouge, all those dictators in latin america (the opposite happened, in fact), all those dictators in africa and asia (again, the opposites happened, in fact).
format_quote Originally Posted by
Trumble
All that aside, the failure to actually find any WMDs knocked huge holes in America's reputation. And thousands of body bags always cause significant political grief - amazingly enough.
You keep making this statement, which is hollow without evidence.
As far as the world can see, the US government is still operating as usual, still has hundreds of thousands of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan without any sanction whatsoever, and still killing thousands of civilians in those illegally occupied countries.
What is this political grief you keep saying?
format_quote Originally Posted by
Trumble
They are not 'occupying' it. There is, however a necessity not to leave Afghanistan and the Afghan people in a worse mess than they are in already. There is no other reason to be there. If you believe there is some reason the Americans should be so desperate for that particular piece of low-value real estate - what is it?
Right.
The Dutch also never claimed that they "occupied" Indonesia for 3.5 centuries, and in fact asked the brits for help to send troops to Indonesia in 1945 to help "reclaimed" Indonesia after Japan was defeated because the Dutch saw a necessity not to leave Indonesia and the Indonesian people in a worse mess than they were in already.
FYI, The Dutch has never officially acknowledged Indonesia's 1945 proclamation of Independence, but who cares, we kicked them out of our country anyway ;D
And I hope the Afghans will soon also kick the hell out the occupying forces from their country.
By the way, unlike you, I don't assume things, I look at and evaluate evidence and facts.
format_quote Originally Posted by
Trumble
Actually, I do.
So where is the proof that OBL was captured and killed?
You are an atheist who ask for God's material evidence, and I am so thoroughly disappointed with you when you eat up everything a group of people told you without any evidence to back up.